{"id":152693,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152693","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/eb839dd47e69d58385951d7f3ef148024e67044f11a0c4405e9097dc73d26185933305da8cf473af5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林德福","委員發言時間":"15:15:22 - 15:27:38","影片長度":"00:12:16","會議時間":"2024-05-20T14:30:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：審查「財政收支劃分法」14案：（僅詢答）\n(一)\t本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「財政收支劃分法修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院國民黨黨團、委員羅明才等23人、委員林思銘等20人、委員許宇甄等16人、委員洪孟楷等22人分別擬具「財政收支劃分法部分條文修正草案」等5案。\n(三)\t本院委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等17人擬具「財政收支劃分法第三條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t本院委員陳玉珍等24人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t本院委員王鴻薇等24人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條、第十二條及第三十條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t本院委員陳超明等17人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條、第十二條及第十六條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t本院委員賴瑞隆等16人、委員蔡易餘等16人分別擬具「財政收支劃分法第十六條之一條文修正草案」等2案。\n(八)\t本院委員賴士葆等29人擬具「財政收支劃分法第十六條之二、第三十七條之二及第三十八條之二條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t本院委員賴士葆等22人擬具「財政收支劃分法第三十八條之一條文修正草案」案。\n【5月20日及22日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-20","duration":736,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-13"},"end_time":"2024-05-20T15:27:38+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-20T15:15:22+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":88,"blocks":[["林委員德福：（15時15分）謝謝主席，請莊部長。"],["主席：請莊部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["林委員德福：部長你好。部長，我請教，前部長蘇建榮在任內的時候，曾經表示財劃法修法要有很大的協調空間，以當時整個時空的背景來看，是因為各地方政府討論統籌分配稅款分配公式時，都沒有統一的意見。請問部長，站在你的立場，你認為蘇前部長的看法有沒有道理？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，歷次行政院有提出版本，但是為什麼沒有完成修法通過，就是各地方政府有不同的意見，因為我知道各地方政府，其實我們的自然環境、工商發展條件不一，所以地方政府在提出分配的時候，都會就他們各自有利的指標來提出。"],["林委員德福：我知道，但要是大家都沒有共識，請問你有沒有其他的看法？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分我們現在正在努力的做，也就是財政部先請各地方政府對於有關提升財政自主還有公共建設的基本需求等等，提出指標來，指標提出來以後它所涵蓋的內容是什麼要更具體、更明確，所以我們也跟地方政府再進一步的釐清……"],["林委員德福：部長，依您現在的觀點，是不是一定要協調到統一的意見跟版本，財劃法修正草案才能成案，是不是這樣子？"],["莊部長翠雲：我想在地方政府分配這個部分，最起碼我們要把共識凝聚起來，如果沒有共識的話……"],["林委員德福：如果這次有共識呢？"],["莊部長翠雲：如果這次有共識的話，我們在分配的部分就能夠得到一個很明確的公式，我覺得就可以往前推進做修法的動作。"],["林委員德福：如果是的話，你認為財政部短期內有提出修法的機會嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分我們一直在努力，譬如說，我們已經提出規劃修法的原則，另外在地方政府的部分，已經請他們提供了相關的指標，目前這個指標其實還有很大的一個差距，所以我們會進一步的釐清，把指標之間的差距儘量縮小。"],["林委員德福：你認為以現在來看，行政院和財政部，你們有沒有修法的決心呢？有沒有？"],["莊部長翠雲：我們已經在推展當中，我們剛剛報告已經積極地在展開當中了。"],["林委員德福：好，部長，媒體報導對於你回應外界財劃法修法，指出包含為地方增加財源等6大修法的原則，學者一致認為可以從此看出中央政府仍是集權、集錢的心態，不願意放權。我請問部長，對於學者認為你回應訴求──財劃法修正的內容，是中央集錢跟集權的心態，你認為是不是事實？"],["莊部長翠雲：不是這樣的。"],["林委員德福：如果不是事實，財政部又沒有積極主動修法的決心，請問部長，你又如何能夠讓各界信服呢？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，財劃法雖然沒有修正，但是透過中央統籌分配稅款，還有一般性的補助款，以及專案的補助，其實對於地方財政的挹注，已經有相當大的一個成長。"],["林委員德福：我瞭解啊，但問題是剛剛有委員提出來，像陳超明提到苗栗一年貢獻多少？結果補助了多少？那個落差很大。你說像嘉義、其他地方，本來它就收的很少，但是補助很多，那個落差讓人家一看就知道，這個好像是有黨派之分，對不對？"],["莊部長翠雲：委員您說的這個就涉及到所謂水平的一個分配，所以水平分配的公式……"],["林委員德福：所以說財劃法要是沒有擬定……"],["莊部長翠雲：我們認為指標上要更能夠公平。"],["林委員德福：部長，攸關地方財源統籌分配稅款，母法財政收支劃分法已經25年沒有修改，歷經政黨輪替政權更迭，再加上多了4個城市升格為直轄市，稅收上也有極大的變化，事實上應該有修法的必要性。今天財委會排審有媒體報導，依現在修正的版本重新調整稅收分配，恐怕中央要釋出高達6,400億元作為統籌分配款。請問部長，站在財政部的立場，對於財劃法，你認為有沒有必要性和急迫性？有沒有？"],["莊部長翠雲：報告委員，當然，因為這麼長的時間沒有修，中央跟地方的財政情勢有變更，另外這麼長時間以來，大家也都感覺分配的公式……尤其我們知道分配直轄市就直接先分走60%，然後縣（市），然後再鄉（鎮、市）這樣分。這個分配的方式，事實上就是造成剛剛陳超明委員所提到的情況，所以我們現在就在這個分配公式上，要重新去考慮相關的指標，讓它更細緻，然後讓它可以更趨於公平，這是多年來大家一直都在做的事情。"],["林委員德福：站在中央跟地方的角度，以目前委員提出的版本，中央釋出給地方的稅收分配比率到底有沒有調整的空間？"],["莊部長翠雲：我們在修法原則裡面就有一個提升財政自主，這個部分就會有擴大中央統籌分配稅款的規模，但是在擴大規模的時候同時要考慮，第一個，要考慮到地方財政的需要，也要考慮中央的財政韌性，這個部分也要併入考慮，因為中央所要面對的特別事權，包括國防、社福支出、重大公共建設，以及國際政經情勢變化，中央必須要有財政韌性來做應對，所以中央的財政韌性也是很重要。"],["林委員德福：我瞭解，媒體報導對於財劃法的修正，財政部表示還要彙整地方的意見，包含六大原則，提升財政自主、劃一分配基礎、調劑財政的盈虛、保障既有財源，以及精進分配機制及地方財源不減等修法。部長，因為賴清德總統在院長任內支持修正財劃法，給地方更多的經費，地方縣市首長也多半認為財劃法早就該修，是當務之急，請問部長，從賴院長到賴副總統到今天上任的賴總統，在財劃法修法的立場，你認為他應該言行一致、積極推動修法，還是換了一個位子也要換一個腦袋的思維來判斷，你的看法呢？"],["莊部長翠雲：委員，這個部分其實財政部剛剛有報告，已經在積極展開相關的作業當中，我們已經提過對地方政府的分配指標，就是剛剛提到修法原則中的劃一分配基礎，也就是未來直轄市跟縣市分配基礎是一致的，目前先把它分成三大塊再來做分配，所以事實上這部分的分配基礎會要做討論……"],["林委員德福：我希望要積極啦！"],["莊部長翠雲：其次是精進分配的機制，要把相關的細節……可以做更明確，因為整個社會情勢跟經濟情勢發展都會有一些變化。"],["林委員德福：部長，朝野對財劃法修法的建言已經由來已久，但財政部一貫的說法不是以地方意見整合必須有共識，不然就是用財政分配法制面的公平原則來框架，影射修法有難度。請問部長，財政部這樣的說法，你認為有積極參與推動修法的誠意嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：財政部的說法也是一個事實，但是目前來說，我們在積極展開相關的作業當中。"],["林委員德福：民進黨政府執政，從賴清德擔任院長到現在，蔡總統上任已經好幾年了，地方意見彙整不應該沒有定論，財政分配的法制面也不應該說沒有具體內容，我請問部長，中央政府這個會期有沒有辦法提出對案的版本參與討論？如果再不提出，真的會讓外界被貼上尸位素餐的標籤了，你認為呢？"],["莊部長翠雲：委員，不會有尸位素餐這樣的情形，財劃法縱使沒有修，中央對地方的財政挹注也一直逐年在增加，以113年跟105年來相較的話，已經都增加了兩千多億，所以財劃法雖然沒有修，但是中央對地方政府的財政挹注是一直都在做的，而且逐年在增加的。"],["林委員德福：部長，上個禮拜財政部公布最新的國債鐘，平均每人負債27.4萬元，創歷史的新高，所以又讓很多立委專注在這個議題，部長你的回應是短期融資在國庫調度上是有必要的，所以短期債務會增加，但會儘快還債。那我請問部長，現在財劃法在償還中央債務與地方財政分配上有沒有調整的空間？"],["莊部長翠雲：我們的國債鐘是指中央的債務，為什麼上個禮拜會是27.4萬？是因為第一季的時候我們必須要支付軍公教的年終獎金，地方的補助款要出去，還有增加台電1,000億元的增資，所以這部分是大額的金額出去，以至於國債鐘會往上跳，而國債鐘是長債加上短債，短債我們會儘快還掉，這也就是國庫資金調度的短期現象，我們在17號有還了480億，這當時都是在我們的規劃當中，5月、6月大額稅款進來以後，我們也會積極地按照年度的預算去還掉1,150億元，事實上我們在債務控管上是非常的積極，而且謹守財政紀律。"],["林委員德福：最後，如果目前按照我們委員的修法版本，你認為對中央債務、地方財政會發生什麼變動或影響？"],["莊部長翠雲：資源的重新分配對各級政府的財政當然會有一些影響，所以這部分我們必須要審慎。"],["林委員德福：我認為25年了，該修還是要修，因為地方苦哈哈的，講實在話，中央集錢又集權，這個分配都是有點看顏色在分配啊，所以說……"],["莊部長翠雲：我想這個分配都是按照公式在分配……"],["林委員德福：所以我們地方政府就是一直在哀哀叫，我希望你們在最短的期間要提出版本。以上，謝謝。"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員指教，謝謝。"],["主席：下一位質詢請吳秉叡委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":262,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-13","speakers":["羅明才","洪孟楷","黃珊珊","陳超明","陳玉珍","賴士葆","林德福","吳秉叡","陳玉珍","顏寬恒","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","賴惠員","王世堅"],"page_start":203,"meetingDate":["2024-05-20"],"gazette_id":"1134901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1134901_00005","1134901_00006","1134901_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查「財政收支劃分法」14案：（僅詢答）(一)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「財政收支劃分法修正\n草案」案、(二)本院國民黨黨團、委員羅明才等23人、委員林思銘等20人、委員許宇甄等16人、\n委員洪孟楷等22人分別擬具「財政收支劃分法部分條文修正草案」等 5案、(三)本院委員伍麗華\nSaidhai Tahovecahe 等17人擬具「財政收支劃分法第三條條文修正草案」案、 (四)本院委員陳\n玉珍等24 人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條條文修正草案」案、( 五) 本院委員王鴻薇等24 人擬具\n「財政收支劃分法第八條、第十二條及第三十條條文修正草案」案、(六)本院委員陳超明等17人\n擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條、第十二條及第十六條之一條文修正草案」案、(七)本院委員賴瑞\n隆等16人、委員蔡易餘等16人分別擬具「財政收支劃分法第十六條之一條文修正草案」等 2案、\n(八)本院委員賴士葆等29人擬具「財政收支劃分法第十六條之二、第三十七條之二及第三十八條\n之二條文修正草案」案、(九)本院委員賴士葆等22人擬具「財政收支劃分法第三十八條之一條文\n修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1134901_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"152693","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152693","tool":"pyannote","id":"152693-pyannote"},"job_id":"V7BfO6WI85rxEnR9","queued_at":"2024-05-30 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Tahovecahe等17人擬具「財政收支劃分法第三條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t本院委員陳玉珍等24人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t本院委員王鴻薇等24人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條、第十二條及第三十條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t本院委員陳超明等17人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條、第十二條及第十六條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t本院委員賴瑞隆等16人、委員蔡易餘等16人分別擬具「財政收支劃分法第十六條之一條文修正草案」等2案。\n(八)\t本院委員賴士葆等29人擬具「財政收支劃分法第十六條之二、第三十七條之二及第三十八條之二條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t本院委員賴士葆等22人擬具「財政收支劃分法第三十八條之一條文修正草案」案。\n【5月20日及22日二天一次會】）\n發言委員：林德福"},"job_id":"CACdP4fIZh55S9NJ","queued_at":"2024-05-30 20:58:02","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-05-30 21:00:11","msg":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152693 already downloaded"},{"time":"2024-05-30 21:00:11","msg":"running whisperx with  --language zh --model large-v3 --initial_prompt '會議名稱：立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：審查「財政收支劃分法」14案：（僅詢答）\n(一)\t本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「財政收支劃分法修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院國民黨黨團、委員羅明才等23人、委員林思銘等20人、委員許宇甄等16人、委員洪孟楷等22人分別擬具「財政收支劃分法部分條文修正草案」等5案。\n(三)\t本院委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等17人擬具「財政收支劃分法第三條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t本院委員陳玉珍等24人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t本院委員王鴻薇等24人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條、第十二條及第三十條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t本院委員陳超明等17人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條、第十二條及第十六條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t本院委員賴瑞隆等16人、委員蔡易餘等16人分別擬具「財政收支劃分法第十六條之一條文修正草案」等2案。\n(八)\t本院委員賴士葆等29人擬具「財政收支劃分法第十六條之二、第三十七條之二及第三十八條之二條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t本院委員賴士葆等22人擬具「財政收支劃分法第三十八條之一條文修正草案」案。\n【5月20日及22日二天一次會】）\n發言委員：林德福'"},{"time":"2024-05-30 21:00:34","msg":"merging result"},{"time":"2024-05-30 21:00:34","msg":"status: done"}],"result":{"json":"{\"segments\": [{\"start\": 0.89, \"end\": 10.099, \"text\": \"因為前部長蘇建隆在任命的時候曾經表示說這個財化法、修法要有很大的協調空間\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 0.89, \"end\": 1.731, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 1.731, \"end\": 1.991, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 1.991, \"end\": 2.652, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"蘇\"}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 2.652, \"end\": 2.852, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"隆\", \"start\": 2.852, \"end\": 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{\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 580.545, \"end\": 580.705, \"score\": 0.642}, {\"word\": \"且\", \"start\": 580.705, \"end\": 580.945, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"逐\", \"start\": 580.945, \"end\": 581.125, \"score\": 0.789}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 581.125, \"end\": 581.325, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 581.325, \"end\": 581.525, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"增\", \"start\": 581.525, \"end\": 581.746, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 581.746, \"end\": 582.026, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 582.026, \"end\": 582.046, \"score\": 0.997}]}, {\"start\": 582.426, \"end\": 607.295, \"text\": \"部長,上個禮拜財政部公布最新的國債中平均每年負債27.4萬元,創歷史的新高,所以說又讓很多立委專注在這個議題。部長,你的回應是短期融資在國庫的調度上是有必要的,所以短期債務會增加,但會盡快來還債。那我請問部長,\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 582.426, \"end\": 583.366, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 583.366, \"end\": 583.867, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"禮\"}, 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616.716, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 616.716, \"end\": 617.336, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 617.336, \"end\": 617.556, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 617.556, \"end\": 617.717, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 617.717, \"end\": 618.137, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 618.137, \"end\": 618.297, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 618.297, \"end\": 618.437, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"空\", \"start\": 618.437, \"end\": 618.457, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}]}, {\"start\": 621.1, \"end\": 643.532, \"text\": \"我們的國債中是指中央的債務。那為什麼會上個禮拜是27.4萬是因為第一季的時候我們必須要支付軍公教的年終獎金地方的補助款要出去還有增加台電的1000億元的一個增值所以這個部分大額的金額出去以至於國債中它會往上跳那國債中是長債加上短債\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 621.1, \"end\": 621.32, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 621.32, \"end\": 621.86, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"債\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 621.86, \"end\": 622.1, \"score\": 0.815}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 622.1, \"end\": 622.28, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"指\", \"start\": 622.28, \"end\": 622.48, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 622.48, \"end\": 622.66, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"央\", \"start\": 622.66, \"end\": 622.861, \"score\": 0.754}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 622.861, \"end\": 624.461, \"score\": 0.733}, {\"word\": \"債\"}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 624.461, \"end\": 624.782, \"score\": 0.698}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 624.782, \"end\": 626.543, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 626.543, \"end\": 626.843, \"score\": 0.709}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"禮\"}, {\"word\": \"拜\", \"start\": 626.843, \"end\": 627.963, \"score\": 0.714}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 627.963, \"end\": 628.644, \"score\": 0.732}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, 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{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 639.27, \"end\": 639.39, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 639.39, \"end\": 639.75, \"score\": 0.674}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 639.75, \"end\": 639.91, \"score\": 0.77}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 639.91, \"end\": 640.11, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 640.11, \"end\": 640.371, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"額\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 640.371, \"end\": 640.511, \"score\": 0.639}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 640.511, \"end\": 640.891, \"score\": 0.68}, {\"word\": \"額\"}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 640.891, \"end\": 641.091, \"score\": 0.754}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 641.091, \"end\": 641.731, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 641.731, \"end\": 641.931, \"score\": 0.782}, {\"word\": \"至\", \"start\": 641.931, \"end\": 642.092, \"score\": 0.652}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 642.092, \"end\": 642.692, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"債\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 642.692, \"end\": 642.932, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 642.932, \"end\": 642.952, \"score\": 0.034}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"往\", \"start\": 642.952, \"end\": 643.032, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 643.032, \"end\": 643.072, \"score\": 0.24}, {\"word\": \"跳\", \"start\": 643.072, \"end\": 643.092, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 643.092, \"end\": 643.152, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"債\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 643.152, \"end\": 643.192, \"score\": 0.062}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 643.192, \"end\": 643.372, \"score\": 0.732}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"債\"}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 643.372, \"end\": 643.392, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 643.392, \"end\": 643.512, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"短\", \"start\": 643.512, \"end\": 643.532, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"債\"}]}, {\"start\": 646.474, \"end\": 657.096, \"text\": \"那這個部分短債的部分我們會很盡快的去還掉也就是這是國庫資金調度的一個短期的一個現象所以我們在17號又還了481這當時都是在我們的規劃當中那5月6月大額的稅款進來以後我們也會積極的按照年度的預算去還掉1150億元這個部分事實上我們是在債務的控管上是非常的積極而且謹守財政紀律\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 646.474, \"end\": 646.834, \"score\": 0.741}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 646.834, \"end\": 646.974, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 646.974, \"end\": 647.194, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"短\", \"start\": 647.194, \"end\": 647.554, \"score\": 0.776}, {\"word\": \"債\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 647.554, \"end\": 647.694, \"score\": 0.756}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 647.694, \"end\": 647.834, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 647.834, \"end\": 647.994, \"score\": 0.713}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 647.994, \"end\": 648.734, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 648.734, \"end\": 649.195, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": \"盡\"}, {\"word\": \"快\", \"start\": 649.195, \"end\": 649.375, 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\"end\": 697.479, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 697.479, \"end\": 698.22, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"修\", \"start\": 698.22, \"end\": 698.5, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 698.5, \"end\": 698.64, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 698.64, \"end\": 698.86, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"修\", \"start\": 698.86, \"end\": 699.421, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 699.421, \"end\": 700.342, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 700.342, \"end\": 700.582, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 700.582, \"end\": 701.363, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"苦\", \"start\": 701.363, \"end\": 701.683, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"哈\", \"start\": 701.683, \"end\": 701.703, \"score\": 0.013}, {\"word\": \"哈\", \"start\": 701.703, \"end\": 701.923, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 701.923, \"end\": 702.044, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 702.044, \"end\": 702.764, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 702.764, \"end\": 703.545, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 703.545, \"end\": 703.925, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 703.925, \"end\": 704.146, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"央\", \"start\": 704.146, \"end\": 705.147, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"集\", \"start\": 705.147, \"end\": 706.268, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"又\", \"start\": 706.268, \"end\": 706.508, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"集\", \"start\": 706.508, \"end\": 708.23, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 708.23, \"end\": 709.531, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 709.531, \"end\": 709.731, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"配\", \"start\": 709.731, \"end\": 709.751, \"score\": 0.785}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 710.852, \"end\": 711.673, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 711.673, \"end\": 711.753, \"score\": 0.765}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"吳\"}, {\"word\": \"秉\"}, {\"word\": \"瑞\", \"start\": 711.753, \"end\": 711.773, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"吳\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 711.773, \"end\": 711.793, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,890 --> 00:00:10,099\n因為前部長蘇建隆在任命的時候曾經表示說這個財化法、修法要有很大的協調空間\n\n2\n00:00:14,246 --> 00:00:35,445\n以當時整個時空的背景來看是因為各地地方政府討論統籌分配稅款、分配公事時都沒有統一的意見。那請問部長站在你的立場你認為蘇前部長的看法有沒有道理?\n\n3\n00:00:36,681 --> 00:01:02,820\n我跟委員報告歷次行政院有提出版本但是都為什麼會沒有完成修法通過就是各地方政府有不同的意見因為我們知道各地方政府其實我們的各個自然環境公三發展條件不一所以各地方政府在提出分配的時候都會就他們各自有利的指標來做提出我知道那要是大家都沒有共識那請問你有沒有其他另外的看法\n\n4\n00:01:03,861 --> 00:01:22,239\n嗯,這個部分我們現在正在努力的做。也就是說財政部先請各地方政府對於有關提升財政自主還有公共建設的基本需求等等提出指標來。那這個指標提出來以後,它所涵蓋的內容是什麼?要更具體、更明確。所以我們也在跟地方政府在進一步的釐清。\n\n5\n00:01:23,860 --> 00:01:43,314\n因您現在的觀點,請問財劃法是不是一定要協調到統一的意見的版本財劃法修正草案才能成案,是不是這樣子?我想在這個地方政府的分配這個部分,最起碼我們要把共識要凝聚起來,如果沒有共識的話那這次要是有共識呢?\n\n6\n00:01:43,954 --> 00:01:55,456\n如果這次有共識的話,我們在這個分配的部分就能夠得到一個很明確的公式,那我覺得這個就可以往前推進做修法的動作,是。如果是的話,那你認為財政部短期內\n\n7\n00:01:57,031 --> 00:02:18,650\n有提出修法的機會嗎?你們?這個部分我們一直在努力比如說我們已經提出修法的原則規劃修法的原則另外在地方政府的部分我們請他們已經提供了相關的指標那目前這個指標來其實還有很大的一個差距所以我們會進一步的釐清然後把指標這個這個之間的差距把它盡量縮小對\n\n8\n00:02:19,724 --> 00:02:37,507\n那你認為以現在來看行政院和財政部你們有沒有修法的決心呢?有沒有?我們已經在推展當中,我們剛剛在報告也是積極地在展開當中。部長,因為媒體報導對於你回應外界才化法修法指出包含\n\n9\n00:02:38,648 --> 00:03:07,310\n為地方增加財源等六大修法的原則。那學者一時認為說從此可以看出中央政府能是集權跟集權的心態,不願意放權。那我請問部長,對於學者認為你回應訴求財化法修正的內容是中央集權跟集權的心態,你認為是不是事實?\n\n10\n00:03:08,250 --> 00:03:24,777\n不是這樣的事。不是喔?那如果不是事實,但財政部又沒有積極主動修法的決心,那請問部長你又如何能夠讓各界來信服呢?跟委員報告,財劃法雖然沒有修正,\n\n11\n00:03:25,217 --> 00:03:43,793\n但是透過中央統籌分配稅款還有一般性的補助款以及專案的補助其實對於地方的財政的挹注已經有相當大的一個成長。我了解啊但問題是剛剛有委員提出來你像那個陳超平啊他提的苗栗對不對他一年貢獻多少結果\n\n12\n00:03:45,334 --> 00:03:45,354\n部長,\n\n13\n00:04:11,727 --> 00:04:21,338\n有關地方財源統籌分配稅款文法財政收支劃分法已經25年沒有修改。歷經政黨輪替政權\n\n14\n00:04:24,451 --> 00:04:49,165\n更迭再加上多了四個城市升格為直轄市稅收上也有極大的變化那事實上應該有修法的必要性今天啊財委會排審有媒體報導依照現在修正的版本重新調整稅收分配恐怕中央要釋出高達6400億元的這個作為統籌分配款\n\n15\n00:04:53,988 --> 00:05:01,222\n那請問部長委員去了解站在財政部的立場對於財劃法你認為有沒有必要和\n\n16\n00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:27,598\n有沒有必要信喚急迫性?有沒有?委員報告當然因為這麼長的時間沒有修地方跟財政中央跟地方的財政情勢有變更那另外就是這麼長時間以來大家也都感覺到這個分配的公式尤其這個我們知道分配直轄市就直接先分走61%縣市然後在鄉鎮這樣分這個分配的方式事實上在造成剛剛也就陳超明委員所提到的\n\n17\n00:05:28,859 --> 00:05:50,200\n所以我們現在就在這個分配公式上要重新去考慮相關的指標讓它更細緻然後讓它可以更趨於公平這是多年來大家一直都在做的事情因為站在中央跟地方的角度以目前提出的委員版中央釋出的稅收分配比例給地方到底有沒有調整的空間\n\n18\n00:06:09,193 --> 00:06:09,374\n我了解。\n\n19\n00:06:24,471 --> 00:06:49,842\n媒體報導對於財化法修正財政部表示還要彙整地方的意見並要以六大原則包含提升財政自主、劃一分配基礎然後調劑財政的營需保障既有的財源以及精進分配機制及地方財源不減等這些修法那部長因為賴清德從總統\n\n20\n00:06:52,492 --> 00:07:13,525\n總統在院長任內支持修正財劃法給地方更多的經費地方縣市首長也多半認為財劃法早就該修是當務之急請問部長從賴院長到賴副總統到今天上任的賴總統\n\n21\n00:07:15,126 --> 00:07:33,476\n在財化法修法的立場你認為他應該言行一致積極來推動修法還是換了個位置也要換了個腦袋的思維來判斷?你的看法呢?委員這個部分我們其實財政部我們剛剛報告已經在積極展開相關的一些作業當中\n\n22\n00:07:34,557 --> 00:07:59,163\n已經提過就是我們對地方政府的分配的指標就是剛剛提的修法原則裡面劃一分配基礎也就未來只想要是跟縣市要分配的基礎是一致那目前是根本就先把它分成三大塊然後再來做分配所以這個部分的分配基礎事實上會要做討論的我希望要進行分配的機制因為要把那個相關的細節可以做更明確因為整個社會情勢跟經濟情勢發展都會有一些變化\n\n23\n00:07:59,983 --> 00:08:22,750\n因為草野對財化法修法的建言已經由來已久但財政部一貫的說法就不是以地方意見整合必須有共識啊不然就是這個用財政分配法制面公平的原則來的框架那影射修法有難度那請問部長財政部這樣的說法\n\n24\n00:08:26,431 --> 00:08:54,430\n那你認為有積極參與推動修法的誠意嗎?財政部的說法也是一個事實。但是目前來說我們在積極展開相關的作業當中。民進黨政府執政從賴清德擔任院長到現在賴總統擅任已經好幾年了。地方意見彙整不應該沒有定論。財政分配法制面也不應該\n\n25\n00:08:56,291 --> 00:09:20,986\n說沒有具體的內容。我請問部長,中央政府這個會期有沒有辦法提出對岸的版本參與討論?如果再不提出,真的會讓外界被貼上世衛素餐的一個標籤了?您認為呢?委員不會有世衛素餐這樣的一個情形。\n\n26\n00:09:22,192 --> 00:09:42,046\n臺法法正是沒有修中央對地方的財政挹注也一直逐年在增加以113年跟105年來相較的話已經都增加了兩千多億所以臺法法雖然沒有修但是中央對地方政府的財政挹注是一直是都在做的而且逐年在增加的\n\n27\n00:09:42,426 --> 00:10:07,295\n部長,上個禮拜財政部公布最新的國債中平均每年負債27.4萬元,創歷史的新高,所以說又讓很多立委專注在這個議題。部長,你的回應是短期融資在國庫的調度上是有必要的,所以短期債務會增加,但會盡快來還債。那我請問部長,\n\n28\n00:10:11,290 --> 00:10:18,457\n現在財劃法在償還中央債務與地方財政分配上有沒有調整的空間?\n\n29\n00:10:21,100 --> 00:10:43,532\n我們的國債中是指中央的債務。那為什麼會上個禮拜是27.4萬是因為第一季的時候我們必須要支付軍公教的年終獎金地方的補助款要出去還有增加台電的1000億元的一個增值所以這個部分大額的金額出去以至於國債中它會往上跳那國債中是長債加上短債\n\n30\n00:10:46,474 --> 00:10:57,096\n那這個部分短債的部分我們會很盡快的去還掉也就是這是國庫資金調度的一個短期的一個現象所以我們在17號又還了481這當時都是在我們的規劃當中那5月6月大額的稅款進來以後我們也會積極的按照年度的預算去還掉1150億元這個部分事實上我們是在債務的控管上是非常的積極而且謹守財政紀律\n\n31\n00:11:11,201 --> 00:11:22,586\n最後就是部長,如果按照我們目前委員的修法版本,你認為對中央債務、地方財政上會發生什麼變動或影響?\n\n32\n00:11:26,748 --> 00:11:49,751\n當然這個資源的一個重新分配對各級政府的財政當然會有一些影響,所以這部分我們必須要審慎。我是認為該修25年了,該修還是要修,因為地方苦哈哈的啦,講實在話,那中央集權又集權,那這個分配\n\n33\n00:11:50,852 --> 00:11:51,793\n下一個質詢請吳秉瑞吳委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n890\t10099\t因為前部長蘇建隆在任命的時候曾經表示說這個財化法、修法要有很大的協調空間\n14246\t35445\t以當時整個時空的背景來看是因為各地地方政府討論統籌分配稅款、分配公事時都沒有統一的意見。那請問部長站在你的立場你認為蘇前部長的看法有沒有道理?\n36681\t62820\t我跟委員報告歷次行政院有提出版本但是都為什麼會沒有完成修法通過就是各地方政府有不同的意見因為我們知道各地方政府其實我們的各個自然環境公三發展條件不一所以各地方政府在提出分配的時候都會就他們各自有利的指標來做提出我知道那要是大家都沒有共識那請問你有沒有其他另外的看法\n63861\t82239\t嗯,這個部分我們現在正在努力的做。也就是說財政部先請各地方政府對於有關提升財政自主還有公共建設的基本需求等等提出指標來。那這個指標提出來以後,它所涵蓋的內容是什麼?要更具體、更明確。所以我們也在跟地方政府在進一步的釐清。\n83860\t103314\t因您現在的觀點,請問財劃法是不是一定要協調到統一的意見的版本財劃法修正草案才能成案,是不是這樣子?我想在這個地方政府的分配這個部分,最起碼我們要把共識要凝聚起來,如果沒有共識的話 那這次要是有共識呢?\n103954\t115456\t如果這次有共識的話,我們在這個分配的部分就能夠得到一個很明確的公式,那我覺得這個就可以往前推進做修法的動作,是。如果是的話,那你認為財政部短期內\n117031\t138650\t有提出修法的機會嗎?你們?這個部分我們一直在努力比如說我們已經提出修法的原則規劃修法的原則另外在地方政府的部分我們請他們已經提供了相關的指標那目前這個指標來其實還有很大的一個差距所以我們會進一步的釐清然後把指標這個這個之間的差距把它盡量縮小對\n139724\t157507\t那你認為以現在來看行政院和財政部你們有沒有修法的決心呢?有沒有?我們已經在推展當中,我們剛剛在報告也是積極地在展開當中。部長,因為媒體報導對於你回應外界才化法修法指出包含\n158648\t187310\t為地方增加財源等六大修法的原則。那學者一時認為說從此可以看出中央政府能是集權跟集權的心態,不願意放權。那我請問部長,對於學者認為你回應訴求財化法修正的內容是中央集權跟集權的心態,你認為是不是事實?\n188250\t204777\t不是這樣的事。不是喔?那如果不是事實,但財政部又沒有積極主動修法的決心,那請問部長你又如何能夠讓各界來信服呢?跟委員報告,財劃法雖然沒有修正,\n205217\t223793\t但是透過中央統籌分配稅款還有一般性的補助款以及專案的補助其實對於地方的財政的挹注已經有相當大的一個成長。我了解啊但問題是剛剛有委員提出來你像那個陳超平啊他提的苗栗對不對他一年貢獻多少結果\n225334\t225354\t部長,\n251727\t261338\t有關地方財源統籌分配稅款文法財政收支劃分法已經25年沒有修改。歷經政黨輪替政權\n264451\t289165\t更迭再加上多了四個城市升格為直轄市稅收上也有極大的變化那事實上應該有修法的必要性今天啊財委會排審有媒體報導依照現在修正的版本重新調整稅收分配恐怕中央要釋出高達6400億元的這個作為統籌分配款\n293988\t301222\t那請問部長委員去了解站在財政部的立場對於財劃法你認為有沒有必要和\n302520\t327598\t有沒有必要信喚急迫性?有沒有?委員報告當然因為這麼長的時間沒有修地方跟財政中央跟地方的財政情勢有變更那另外就是這麼長時間以來大家也都感覺到這個分配的公式尤其這個我們知道分配直轄市就直接先分走61%縣市然後在鄉鎮這樣分這個分配的方式事實上在造成剛剛也就陳超明委員所提到的\n328859\t350200\t所以我們現在就在這個分配公式上要重新去考慮相關的指標讓它更細緻然後讓它可以更趨於公平這是多年來大家一直都在做的事情因為站在中央跟地方的角度以目前提出的委員版中央釋出的稅收分配比例給地方到底有沒有調整的空間\n350981\t368933\t﹏﹏﹏﹏\n369193\t369374\t我了解。\n384471\t409842\t媒體報導對於財化法修正財政部表示還要彙整地方的意見並要以六大原則包含提升財政自主、劃一分配基礎然後調劑財政的營需保障既有的財源以及精進分配機制及地方財源不減等這些修法那部長因為賴清德從總統\n412492\t433525\t總統在院長任內支持修正財劃法給地方更多的經費地方縣市首長也多半認為財劃法早就該修是當務之急請問部長從賴院長到賴副總統到今天上任的賴總統\n435126\t453476\t在財化法修法的立場你認為他應該言行一致積極來推動修法還是換了個位置也要換了個腦袋的思維來判斷?你的看法呢?委員這個部分我們其實財政部我們剛剛報告已經在積極展開相關的一些作業當中\n454557\t479163\t已經提過就是我們對地方政府的分配的指標就是剛剛提的修法原則裡面劃一分配基礎也就未來只想要是跟縣市要分配的基礎是一致那目前是根本就先把它分成三大塊然後再來做分配所以這個部分的分配基礎事實上會要做討論的我希望要進行分配的機制因為要把那個相關的細節可以做更明確因為整個社會情勢跟經濟情勢發展都會有一些變化\n479983\t502750\t因為草野對財化法修法的建言已經由來已久但財政部一貫的說法就不是以地方意見整合必須有共識啊不然就是這個用財政分配法制面公平的原則來的框架那影射修法有難度那請問部長財政部這樣的說法\n506431\t534430\t那你認為有積極參與推動修法的誠意嗎?財政部的說法也是一個事實。但是目前來說我們在積極展開相關的作業當中。民進黨政府執政從賴清德擔任院長到現在賴總統擅任已經好幾年了。地方意見彙整不應該沒有定論。財政分配法制面也不應該\n536291\t560986\t說沒有具體的內容。我請問部長,中央政府這個會期有沒有辦法提出對岸的版本參與討論?如果再不提出,真的會讓外界被貼上世衛素餐的一個標籤了?您認為呢?委員不會有世衛素餐這樣的一個情形。\n562192\t582046\t臺法法正是沒有修中央對地方的財政挹注也一直逐年在增加以113年跟105年來相較的話已經都增加了兩千多億所以臺法法雖然沒有修但是中央對地方政府的財政挹注是一直是都在做的而且逐年在增加的\n582426\t607295\t部長,上個禮拜財政部公布最新的國債中平均每年負債27.4萬元,創歷史的新高,所以說又讓很多立委專注在這個議題。部長,你的回應是短期融資在國庫的調度上是有必要的,所以短期債務會增加,但會盡快來還債。那我請問部長,\n611290\t618457\t現在財劃法在償還中央債務與地方財政分配上有沒有調整的空間?\n621100\t643532\t我們的國債中是指中央的債務。那為什麼會上個禮拜是27.4萬是因為第一季的時候我們必須要支付軍公教的年終獎金地方的補助款要出去還有增加台電的1000億元的一個增值所以這個部分大額的金額出去以至於國債中它會往上跳那國債中是長債加上短債\n646474\t657096\t那這個部分短債的部分我們會很盡快的去還掉也就是這是國庫資金調度的一個短期的一個現象所以我們在17號又還了481這當時都是在我們的規劃當中那5月6月大額的稅款進來以後我們也會積極的按照年度的預算去還掉1150億元這個部分事實上我們是在債務的控管上是非常的積極而且謹守財政紀律\n671201\t682586\t最後就是部長,如果按照我們目前委員的修法版本,你認為對中央債務、地方財政上會發生什麼變動或影響?\n686748\t709751\t當然這個資源的一個重新分配對各級政府的財政當然會有一些影響,所以這部分我們必須要審慎。我是認為該修25年了,該修還是要修,因為地方苦哈哈的啦,講實在話,那中央集權又集權,那這個分配\n710852\t711793\t下一個質詢請吳秉瑞 吳委員\n","txt":"因為前部長蘇建隆在任命的時候曾經表示說這個財化法、修法要有很大的協調空間\n以當時整個時空的背景來看是因為各地地方政府討論統籌分配稅款、分配公事時都沒有統一的意見。那請問部長站在你的立場你認為蘇前部長的看法有沒有道理?\n我跟委員報告歷次行政院有提出版本但是都為什麼會沒有完成修法通過就是各地方政府有不同的意見因為我們知道各地方政府其實我們的各個自然環境公三發展條件不一所以各地方政府在提出分配的時候都會就他們各自有利的指標來做提出我知道那要是大家都沒有共識那請問你有沒有其他另外的看法\n嗯,這個部分我們現在正在努力的做。也就是說財政部先請各地方政府對於有關提升財政自主還有公共建設的基本需求等等提出指標來。那這個指標提出來以後,它所涵蓋的內容是什麼?要更具體、更明確。所以我們也在跟地方政府在進一步的釐清。\n因您現在的觀點,請問財劃法是不是一定要協調到統一的意見的版本財劃法修正草案才能成案,是不是這樣子?我想在這個地方政府的分配這個部分,最起碼我們要把共識要凝聚起來,如果沒有共識的話 那這次要是有共識呢?\n如果這次有共識的話,我們在這個分配的部分就能夠得到一個很明確的公式,那我覺得這個就可以往前推進做修法的動作,是。如果是的話,那你認為財政部短期內\n有提出修法的機會嗎?你們?這個部分我們一直在努力比如說我們已經提出修法的原則規劃修法的原則另外在地方政府的部分我們請他們已經提供了相關的指標那目前這個指標來其實還有很大的一個差距所以我們會進一步的釐清然後把指標這個這個之間的差距把它盡量縮小對\n那你認為以現在來看行政院和財政部你們有沒有修法的決心呢?有沒有?我們已經在推展當中,我們剛剛在報告也是積極地在展開當中。部長,因為媒體報導對於你回應外界才化法修法指出包含\n為地方增加財源等六大修法的原則。那學者一時認為說從此可以看出中央政府能是集權跟集權的心態,不願意放權。那我請問部長,對於學者認為你回應訴求財化法修正的內容是中央集權跟集權的心態,你認為是不是事實?\n不是這樣的事。不是喔?那如果不是事實,但財政部又沒有積極主動修法的決心,那請問部長你又如何能夠讓各界來信服呢?跟委員報告,財劃法雖然沒有修正,\n但是透過中央統籌分配稅款還有一般性的補助款以及專案的補助其實對於地方的財政的挹注已經有相當大的一個成長。我了解啊但問題是剛剛有委員提出來你像那個陳超平啊他提的苗栗對不對他一年貢獻多少結果\n部長,\n有關地方財源統籌分配稅款文法財政收支劃分法已經25年沒有修改。歷經政黨輪替政權\n更迭再加上多了四個城市升格為直轄市稅收上也有極大的變化那事實上應該有修法的必要性今天啊財委會排審有媒體報導依照現在修正的版本重新調整稅收分配恐怕中央要釋出高達6400億元的這個作為統籌分配款\n那請問部長委員去了解站在財政部的立場對於財劃法你認為有沒有必要和\n有沒有必要信喚急迫性?有沒有?委員報告當然因為這麼長的時間沒有修地方跟財政中央跟地方的財政情勢有變更那另外就是這麼長時間以來大家也都感覺到這個分配的公式尤其這個我們知道分配直轄市就直接先分走61%縣市然後在鄉鎮這樣分這個分配的方式事實上在造成剛剛也就陳超明委員所提到的\n所以我們現在就在這個分配公式上要重新去考慮相關的指標讓它更細緻然後讓它可以更趨於公平這是多年來大家一直都在做的事情因為站在中央跟地方的角度以目前提出的委員版中央釋出的稅收分配比例給地方到底有沒有調整的空間\n﹏﹏﹏﹏\n我了解。\n媒體報導對於財化法修正財政部表示還要彙整地方的意見並要以六大原則包含提升財政自主、劃一分配基礎然後調劑財政的營需保障既有的財源以及精進分配機制及地方財源不減等這些修法那部長因為賴清德從總統\n總統在院長任內支持修正財劃法給地方更多的經費地方縣市首長也多半認為財劃法早就該修是當務之急請問部長從賴院長到賴副總統到今天上任的賴總統\n在財化法修法的立場你認為他應該言行一致積極來推動修法還是換了個位置也要換了個腦袋的思維來判斷?你的看法呢?委員這個部分我們其實財政部我們剛剛報告已經在積極展開相關的一些作業當中\n已經提過就是我們對地方政府的分配的指標就是剛剛提的修法原則裡面劃一分配基礎也就未來只想要是跟縣市要分配的基礎是一致那目前是根本就先把它分成三大塊然後再來做分配所以這個部分的分配基礎事實上會要做討論的我希望要進行分配的機制因為要把那個相關的細節可以做更明確因為整個社會情勢跟經濟情勢發展都會有一些變化\n因為草野對財化法修法的建言已經由來已久但財政部一貫的說法就不是以地方意見整合必須有共識啊不然就是這個用財政分配法制面公平的原則來的框架那影射修法有難度那請問部長財政部這樣的說法\n那你認為有積極參與推動修法的誠意嗎?財政部的說法也是一個事實。但是目前來說我們在積極展開相關的作業當中。民進黨政府執政從賴清德擔任院長到現在賴總統擅任已經好幾年了。地方意見彙整不應該沒有定論。財政分配法制面也不應該\n說沒有具體的內容。我請問部長,中央政府這個會期有沒有辦法提出對岸的版本參與討論?如果再不提出,真的會讓外界被貼上世衛素餐的一個標籤了?您認為呢?委員不會有世衛素餐這樣的一個情形。\n臺法法正是沒有修中央對地方的財政挹注也一直逐年在增加以113年跟105年來相較的話已經都增加了兩千多億所以臺法法雖然沒有修但是中央對地方政府的財政挹注是一直是都在做的而且逐年在增加的\n部長,上個禮拜財政部公布最新的國債中平均每年負債27.4萬元,創歷史的新高,所以說又讓很多立委專注在這個議題。部長,你的回應是短期融資在國庫的調度上是有必要的,所以短期債務會增加,但會盡快來還債。那我請問部長,\n現在財劃法在償還中央債務與地方財政分配上有沒有調整的空間?\n我們的國債中是指中央的債務。那為什麼會上個禮拜是27.4萬是因為第一季的時候我們必須要支付軍公教的年終獎金地方的補助款要出去還有增加台電的1000億元的一個增值所以這個部分大額的金額出去以至於國債中它會往上跳那國債中是長債加上短債\n那這個部分短債的部分我們會很盡快的去還掉也就是這是國庫資金調度的一個短期的一個現象所以我們在17號又還了481這當時都是在我們的規劃當中那5月6月大額的稅款進來以後我們也會積極的按照年度的預算去還掉1150億元這個部分事實上我們是在債務的控管上是非常的積極而且謹守財政紀律\n最後就是部長,如果按照我們目前委員的修法版本,你認為對中央債務、地方財政上會發生什麼變動或影響?\n當然這個資源的一個重新分配對各級政府的財政當然會有一些影響,所以這部分我們必須要審慎。我是認為該修25年了,該修還是要修,因為地方苦哈哈的啦,講實在話,那中央集權又集權,那這個分配\n下一個質詢請吳秉瑞 吳委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.890 --> 00:10.099\n因為前部長蘇建隆在任命的時候曾經表示說這個財化法、修法要有很大的協調空間\n\n00:14.246 --> 00:35.445\n以當時整個時空的背景來看是因為各地地方政府討論統籌分配稅款、分配公事時都沒有統一的意見。那請問部長站在你的立場你認為蘇前部長的看法有沒有道理?\n\n00:36.681 --> 01:02.820\n我跟委員報告歷次行政院有提出版本但是都為什麼會沒有完成修法通過就是各地方政府有不同的意見因為我們知道各地方政府其實我們的各個自然環境公三發展條件不一所以各地方政府在提出分配的時候都會就他們各自有利的指標來做提出我知道那要是大家都沒有共識那請問你有沒有其他另外的看法\n\n01:03.861 --> 01:22.239\n嗯,這個部分我們現在正在努力的做。也就是說財政部先請各地方政府對於有關提升財政自主還有公共建設的基本需求等等提出指標來。那這個指標提出來以後,它所涵蓋的內容是什麼?要更具體、更明確。所以我們也在跟地方政府在進一步的釐清。\n\n01:23.860 --> 01:43.314\n因您現在的觀點,請問財劃法是不是一定要協調到統一的意見的版本財劃法修正草案才能成案,是不是這樣子?我想在這個地方政府的分配這個部分,最起碼我們要把共識要凝聚起來,如果沒有共識的話那這次要是有共識呢?\n\n01:43.954 --> 01:55.456\n如果這次有共識的話,我們在這個分配的部分就能夠得到一個很明確的公式,那我覺得這個就可以往前推進做修法的動作,是。如果是的話,那你認為財政部短期內\n\n01:57.031 --> 02:18.650\n有提出修法的機會嗎?你們?這個部分我們一直在努力比如說我們已經提出修法的原則規劃修法的原則另外在地方政府的部分我們請他們已經提供了相關的指標那目前這個指標來其實還有很大的一個差距所以我們會進一步的釐清然後把指標這個這個之間的差距把它盡量縮小對\n\n02:19.724 --> 02:37.507\n那你認為以現在來看行政院和財政部你們有沒有修法的決心呢?有沒有?我們已經在推展當中,我們剛剛在報告也是積極地在展開當中。部長,因為媒體報導對於你回應外界才化法修法指出包含\n\n02:38.648 --> 03:07.310\n為地方增加財源等六大修法的原則。那學者一時認為說從此可以看出中央政府能是集權跟集權的心態,不願意放權。那我請問部長,對於學者認為你回應訴求財化法修正的內容是中央集權跟集權的心態,你認為是不是事實?\n\n03:08.250 --> 03:24.777\n不是這樣的事。不是喔?那如果不是事實,但財政部又沒有積極主動修法的決心,那請問部長你又如何能夠讓各界來信服呢?跟委員報告,財劃法雖然沒有修正,\n\n03:25.217 --> 03:43.793\n但是透過中央統籌分配稅款還有一般性的補助款以及專案的補助其實對於地方的財政的挹注已經有相當大的一個成長。我了解啊但問題是剛剛有委員提出來你像那個陳超平啊他提的苗栗對不對他一年貢獻多少結果\n\n03:45.334 --> 03:45.354\n部長,\n\n04:11.727 --> 04:21.338\n有關地方財源統籌分配稅款文法財政收支劃分法已經25年沒有修改。歷經政黨輪替政權\n\n04:24.451 --> 04:49.165\n更迭再加上多了四個城市升格為直轄市稅收上也有極大的變化那事實上應該有修法的必要性今天啊財委會排審有媒體報導依照現在修正的版本重新調整稅收分配恐怕中央要釋出高達6400億元的這個作為統籌分配款\n\n04:53.988 --> 05:01.222\n那請問部長委員去了解站在財政部的立場對於財劃法你認為有沒有必要和\n\n05:02.520 --> 05:27.598\n有沒有必要信喚急迫性?有沒有?委員報告當然因為這麼長的時間沒有修地方跟財政中央跟地方的財政情勢有變更那另外就是這麼長時間以來大家也都感覺到這個分配的公式尤其這個我們知道分配直轄市就直接先分走61%縣市然後在鄉鎮這樣分這個分配的方式事實上在造成剛剛也就陳超明委員所提到的\n\n05:28.859 --> 05:50.200\n所以我們現在就在這個分配公式上要重新去考慮相關的指標讓它更細緻然後讓它可以更趨於公平這是多年來大家一直都在做的事情因為站在中央跟地方的角度以目前提出的委員版中央釋出的稅收分配比例給地方到底有沒有調整的空間\n\n06:09.193 --> 06:09.374\n我了解。\n\n06:24.471 --> 06:49.842\n媒體報導對於財化法修正財政部表示還要彙整地方的意見並要以六大原則包含提升財政自主、劃一分配基礎然後調劑財政的營需保障既有的財源以及精進分配機制及地方財源不減等這些修法那部長因為賴清德從總統\n\n06:52.492 --> 07:13.525\n總統在院長任內支持修正財劃法給地方更多的經費地方縣市首長也多半認為財劃法早就該修是當務之急請問部長從賴院長到賴副總統到今天上任的賴總統\n\n07:15.126 --> 07:33.476\n在財化法修法的立場你認為他應該言行一致積極來推動修法還是換了個位置也要換了個腦袋的思維來判斷?你的看法呢?委員這個部分我們其實財政部我們剛剛報告已經在積極展開相關的一些作業當中\n\n07:34.557 --> 07:59.163\n已經提過就是我們對地方政府的分配的指標就是剛剛提的修法原則裡面劃一分配基礎也就未來只想要是跟縣市要分配的基礎是一致那目前是根本就先把它分成三大塊然後再來做分配所以這個部分的分配基礎事實上會要做討論的我希望要進行分配的機制因為要把那個相關的細節可以做更明確因為整個社會情勢跟經濟情勢發展都會有一些變化\n\n07:59.983 --> 08:22.750\n因為草野對財化法修法的建言已經由來已久但財政部一貫的說法就不是以地方意見整合必須有共識啊不然就是這個用財政分配法制面公平的原則來的框架那影射修法有難度那請問部長財政部這樣的說法\n\n08:26.431 --> 08:54.430\n那你認為有積極參與推動修法的誠意嗎?財政部的說法也是一個事實。但是目前來說我們在積極展開相關的作業當中。民進黨政府執政從賴清德擔任院長到現在賴總統擅任已經好幾年了。地方意見彙整不應該沒有定論。財政分配法制面也不應該\n\n08:56.291 --> 09:20.986\n說沒有具體的內容。我請問部長,中央政府這個會期有沒有辦法提出對岸的版本參與討論?如果再不提出,真的會讓外界被貼上世衛素餐的一個標籤了?您認為呢?委員不會有世衛素餐這樣的一個情形。\n\n09:22.192 --> 09:42.046\n臺法法正是沒有修中央對地方的財政挹注也一直逐年在增加以113年跟105年來相較的話已經都增加了兩千多億所以臺法法雖然沒有修但是中央對地方政府的財政挹注是一直是都在做的而且逐年在增加的\n\n09:42.426 --> 10:07.295\n部長,上個禮拜財政部公布最新的國債中平均每年負債27.4萬元,創歷史的新高,所以說又讓很多立委專注在這個議題。部長,你的回應是短期融資在國庫的調度上是有必要的,所以短期債務會增加,但會盡快來還債。那我請問部長,\n\n10:11.290 --> 10:18.457\n現在財劃法在償還中央債務與地方財政分配上有沒有調整的空間?\n\n10:21.100 --> 10:43.532\n我們的國債中是指中央的債務。那為什麼會上個禮拜是27.4萬是因為第一季的時候我們必須要支付軍公教的年終獎金地方的補助款要出去還有增加台電的1000億元的一個增值所以這個部分大額的金額出去以至於國債中它會往上跳那國債中是長債加上短債\n\n10:46.474 --> 10:57.096\n那這個部分短債的部分我們會很盡快的去還掉也就是這是國庫資金調度的一個短期的一個現象所以我們在17號又還了481這當時都是在我們的規劃當中那5月6月大額的稅款進來以後我們也會積極的按照年度的預算去還掉1150億元這個部分事實上我們是在債務的控管上是非常的積極而且謹守財政紀律\n\n11:11.201 --> 11:22.586\n最後就是部長,如果按照我們目前委員的修法版本,你認為對中央債務、地方財政上會發生什麼變動或影響?\n\n11:26.748 --> 11:49.751\n當然這個資源的一個重新分配對各級政府的財政當然會有一些影響,所以這部分我們必須要審慎。我是認為該修25年了,該修還是要修,因為地方苦哈哈的啦,講實在話,那中央集權又集權,那這個分配\n\n11:50.852 --> 11:51.793\n下一個質詢請吳秉瑞吳委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.89,"end":10.099,"text":"因為前部長蘇建隆在任命的時候曾經表示說這個財化法、修法要有很大的協調空間"},{"start":14.246,"end":35.445,"text":"以當時整個時空的背景來看是因為各地地方政府討論統籌分配稅款、分配公事時都沒有統一的意見。那請問部長站在你的立場你認為蘇前部長的看法有沒有道理?"},{"start":36.681,"end":62.82,"text":"我跟委員報告歷次行政院有提出版本但是都為什麼會沒有完成修法通過就是各地方政府有不同的意見因為我們知道各地方政府其實我們的各個自然環境公三發展條件不一所以各地方政府在提出分配的時候都會就他們各自有利的指標來做提出我知道那要是大家都沒有共識那請問你有沒有其他另外的看法"},{"start":63.861,"end":82.239,"text":"嗯,這個部分我們現在正在努力的做。也就是說財政部先請各地方政府對於有關提升財政自主還有公共建設的基本需求等等提出指標來。那這個指標提出來以後,它所涵蓋的內容是什麼?要更具體、更明確。所以我們也在跟地方政府在進一步的釐清。"},{"start":83.86,"end":103.314,"text":"因您現在的觀點,請問財劃法是不是一定要協調到統一的意見的版本財劃法修正草案才能成案,是不是這樣子?我想在這個地方政府的分配這個部分,最起碼我們要把共識要凝聚起來,如果沒有共識的話 那這次要是有共識呢?"},{"start":103.954,"end":115.456,"text":"如果這次有共識的話,我們在這個分配的部分就能夠得到一個很明確的公式,那我覺得這個就可以往前推進做修法的動作,是。如果是的話,那你認為財政部短期內"},{"start":117.031,"end":138.65,"text":"有提出修法的機會嗎?你們?這個部分我們一直在努力比如說我們已經提出修法的原則規劃修法的原則另外在地方政府的部分我們請他們已經提供了相關的指標那目前這個指標來其實還有很大的一個差距所以我們會進一步的釐清然後把指標這個這個之間的差距把它盡量縮小對"},{"start":139.724,"end":157.507,"text":"那你認為以現在來看行政院和財政部你們有沒有修法的決心呢?有沒有?我們已經在推展當中,我們剛剛在報告也是積極地在展開當中。部長,因為媒體報導對於你回應外界才化法修法指出包含"},{"start":158.648,"end":187.31,"text":"為地方增加財源等六大修法的原則。那學者一時認為說從此可以看出中央政府能是集權跟集權的心態,不願意放權。那我請問部長,對於學者認為你回應訴求財化法修正的內容是中央集權跟集權的心態,你認為是不是事實?"},{"start":188.25,"end":204.777,"text":"不是這樣的事。不是喔?那如果不是事實,但財政部又沒有積極主動修法的決心,那請問部長你又如何能夠讓各界來信服呢?跟委員報告,財劃法雖然沒有修正,"},{"start":205.217,"end":223.793,"text":"但是透過中央統籌分配稅款還有一般性的補助款以及專案的補助其實對於地方的財政的挹注已經有相當大的一個成長。我了解啊但問題是剛剛有委員提出來你像那個陳超平啊他提的苗栗對不對他一年貢獻多少結果"},{"start":225.334,"end":225.354,"text":"部長,"},{"start":251.727,"end":261.338,"text":"有關地方財源統籌分配稅款文法財政收支劃分法已經25年沒有修改。歷經政黨輪替政權"},{"start":264.451,"end":289.165,"text":"更迭再加上多了四個城市升格為直轄市稅收上也有極大的變化那事實上應該有修法的必要性今天啊財委會排審有媒體報導依照現在修正的版本重新調整稅收分配恐怕中央要釋出高達6400億元的這個作為統籌分配款"},{"start":293.988,"end":301.222,"text":"那請問部長委員去了解站在財政部的立場對於財劃法你認為有沒有必要和"},{"start":302.52,"end":327.598,"text":"有沒有必要信喚急迫性?有沒有?委員報告當然因為這麼長的時間沒有修地方跟財政中央跟地方的財政情勢有變更那另外就是這麼長時間以來大家也都感覺到這個分配的公式尤其這個我們知道分配直轄市就直接先分走61%縣市然後在鄉鎮這樣分這個分配的方式事實上在造成剛剛也就陳超明委員所提到的"},{"start":328.859,"end":350.2,"text":"所以我們現在就在這個分配公式上要重新去考慮相關的指標讓它更細緻然後讓它可以更趨於公平這是多年來大家一直都在做的事情因為站在中央跟地方的角度以目前提出的委員版中央釋出的稅收分配比例給地方到底有沒有調整的空間"},{"start":350.981,"end":368.933,"text":"﹏﹏﹏﹏"},{"start":369.193,"end":369.374,"text":"我了解。"},{"start":384.471,"end":409.842,"text":"媒體報導對於財化法修正財政部表示還要彙整地方的意見並要以六大原則包含提升財政自主、劃一分配基礎然後調劑財政的營需保障既有的財源以及精進分配機制及地方財源不減等這些修法那部長因為賴清德從總統"},{"start":412.492,"end":433.525,"text":"總統在院長任內支持修正財劃法給地方更多的經費地方縣市首長也多半認為財劃法早就該修是當務之急請問部長從賴院長到賴副總統到今天上任的賴總統"},{"start":435.126,"end":453.476,"text":"在財化法修法的立場你認為他應該言行一致積極來推動修法還是換了個位置也要換了個腦袋的思維來判斷?你的看法呢?委員這個部分我們其實財政部我們剛剛報告已經在積極展開相關的一些作業當中"},{"start":454.557,"end":479.163,"text":"已經提過就是我們對地方政府的分配的指標就是剛剛提的修法原則裡面劃一分配基礎也就未來只想要是跟縣市要分配的基礎是一致那目前是根本就先把它分成三大塊然後再來做分配所以這個部分的分配基礎事實上會要做討論的我希望要進行分配的機制因為要把那個相關的細節可以做更明確因為整個社會情勢跟經濟情勢發展都會有一些變化"},{"start":479.983,"end":502.75,"text":"因為草野對財化法修法的建言已經由來已久但財政部一貫的說法就不是以地方意見整合必須有共識啊不然就是這個用財政分配法制面公平的原則來的框架那影射修法有難度那請問部長財政部這樣的說法"},{"start":506.431,"end":534.43,"text":"那你認為有積極參與推動修法的誠意嗎?財政部的說法也是一個事實。但是目前來說我們在積極展開相關的作業當中。民進黨政府執政從賴清德擔任院長到現在賴總統擅任已經好幾年了。地方意見彙整不應該沒有定論。財政分配法制面也不應該"},{"start":536.291,"end":560.986,"text":"說沒有具體的內容。我請問部長,中央政府這個會期有沒有辦法提出對岸的版本參與討論?如果再不提出,真的會讓外界被貼上世衛素餐的一個標籤了?您認為呢?委員不會有世衛素餐這樣的一個情形。"},{"start":562.192,"end":582.046,"text":"臺法法正是沒有修中央對地方的財政挹注也一直逐年在增加以113年跟105年來相較的話已經都增加了兩千多億所以臺法法雖然沒有修但是中央對地方政府的財政挹注是一直是都在做的而且逐年在增加的"},{"start":582.426,"end":607.295,"text":"部長,上個禮拜財政部公布最新的國債中平均每年負債27.4萬元,創歷史的新高,所以說又讓很多立委專注在這個議題。部長,你的回應是短期融資在國庫的調度上是有必要的,所以短期債務會增加,但會盡快來還債。那我請問部長,"},{"start":611.29,"end":618.457,"text":"現在財劃法在償還中央債務與地方財政分配上有沒有調整的空間?"},{"start":621.1,"end":643.532,"text":"我們的國債中是指中央的債務。那為什麼會上個禮拜是27.4萬是因為第一季的時候我們必須要支付軍公教的年終獎金地方的補助款要出去還有增加台電的1000億元的一個增值所以這個部分大額的金額出去以至於國債中它會往上跳那國債中是長債加上短債"},{"start":646.474,"end":657.096,"text":"那這個部分短債的部分我們會很盡快的去還掉也就是這是國庫資金調度的一個短期的一個現象所以我們在17號又還了481這當時都是在我們的規劃當中那5月6月大額的稅款進來以後我們也會積極的按照年度的預算去還掉1150億元這個部分事實上我們是在債務的控管上是非常的積極而且謹守財政紀律"},{"start":671.201,"end":682.586,"text":"最後就是部長,如果按照我們目前委員的修法版本,你認為對中央債務、地方財政上會發生什麼變動或影響?"},{"start":686.748,"end":709.751,"text":"當然這個資源的一個重新分配對各級政府的財政當然會有一些影響,所以這部分我們必須要審慎。我是認為該修25年了,該修還是要修,因為地方苦哈哈的啦,講實在話,那中央集權又集權,那這個分配"},{"start":710.852,"end":711.793,"text":"下一個質詢請吳秉瑞 吳委員"}]}}}}