{"id":152697,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152697","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/eb839dd47e69d58397988a7270d7f2224e67044f11a0c4405e9097dc73d26185ae5e27c9773548e45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"顏寬恒","委員發言時間":"15:58:18 - 16:08:48","影片長度":"00:10:30","會議時間":"2024-05-20T14:30:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：審查「財政收支劃分法」14案：（僅詢答）\n(一)\t本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「財政收支劃分法修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院國民黨黨團、委員羅明才等23人、委員林思銘等20人、委員許宇甄等16人、委員洪孟楷等22人分別擬具「財政收支劃分法部分條文修正草案」等5案。\n(三)\t本院委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等17人擬具「財政收支劃分法第三條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t本院委員陳玉珍等24人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t本院委員王鴻薇等24人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條、第十二條及第三十條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t本院委員陳超明等17人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條、第十二條及第十六條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t本院委員賴瑞隆等16人、委員蔡易餘等16人分別擬具「財政收支劃分法第十六條之一條文修正草案」等2案。\n(八)\t本院委員賴士葆等29人擬具「財政收支劃分法第十六條之二、第三十七條之二及第三十八條之二條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t本院委員賴士葆等22人擬具「財政收支劃分法第三十八條之一條文修正草案」案。\n【5月20日及22日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-20","duration":630,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-13"},"end_time":"2024-05-20T16:08:48+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-20T15:58:18+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":299,"blocks":[["顏委員寬恒：（15時58分）主席、各位同仁。主席，我想邀請財政部莊部長。"],["主席：請莊部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["顏委員寬恒：部長好。部長，恭喜你就任。"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝。"],["顏委員寬恒：我們今天主要是審查財政收支劃分法，財政部過去喊出六大修法原則，分別是提升財政自主、劃一分配基礎、調劑財政盈虛、保障既有財源、精進分配機制及地方財源不減，但是這些都僅僅停滯在空泛的口號，欠缺實際的計算公式跟具體作法。因為部長剛剛在回復所有委員的質詢時都有提到，現在財政部才剛要開始展開版本的作業，所以意思是說就是沒有版本……"],["莊部長翠雲：之前已經作業了。"],["顏委員寬恒：已經作業了？"],["莊部長翠雲：對，已經作業了。"],["顏委員寬恒：但是版本還沒有出來，對不對？所以我們現在還看不到院版。財政收支劃分法（簡稱財劃法）是在40年6月制定到現在，這個部分在剛剛也有提到啦，過去是6比4，但是在民國88年精省之後，把精省過程當中的15%，總收入的15%又納入中央，所以變75比25，現在變75比25，所以中央越來越有錢，地方越來越窮，但人口增加，然後地方的財政困難，剛剛也有委員提到，所有的除了軍事、國防之外，都是地方機關在做，不管是教育、衛生，各個部都一樣，都是地方機關、人事在做這樣的服務。所以對於現在的財劃法，我們的版本就是要把所得稅總收入的25%，以及營業稅總收入減除依法提撥之統一發票給獎獎金後的全部收入（百分之百），以及貨物稅總收入的10%。以113年度全國總收入15%的規模來計算，中央至少要還給地方政府五千一百多億，讓統籌稅款的規模從現在的三千七百多億能夠擴增到八千九百億，請教部長，您認同這個將15%還給地方政府的版本嗎？你認不認同？"],["莊部長翠雲：委員，沒有所謂的還給地方政府，也就是說，委員說的這15%可能是算精省前跟精省後的一個差距……"],["顏委員寬恒：對，沒有錯。"],["莊部長翠雲：但是精省的時候，省政府原來做的一些事項以及它的負債，都是中央承接了，至於地方政府去做原來省的業務的部分，中央是給予補助的，所以事權跟錢其實要相對應，是要相對應的……"],["顏委員寬恒：這個我剛剛在聽你的答詢都有聽到啦！"],["莊部長翠雲：是，所以要相對應的。"],["顏委員寬恒：事實上，省政府就是地方政府，省跟直轄市的位階是同等的。"],["莊部長翠雲：是，但是後來精省以後，它的相關職責都由中央來承接了。"],["顏委員寬恒：不是，所以我們更要說了，現在是繳稅季，我們現在辛辛苦苦把這些稅金交給中央政府，那中央如何補助地方或者是分回？主要有三大類嘛，統籌分配款、一般補助款及計畫性補助款，一般性補助款是縣市政府的稅收上繳中央之後，中央再依財劃法的公式計算比例後配撥給地方政府，屬於地方政府應得的財源。以臺中市為例，每年上繳給中央的是1,400億，過去4年累計將近6,000億，但是中央補助地方每案的額度都不盡相同，我要再說一次，一年是1,400億，4年的話就是將近6,000億了，但分給臺中市的每年不到1,000億，不到1,000億！所以我想要請部長做一個持平的說法，你認為這樣子對臺中市是不是不公平？當然，像我們召委是新北市，還有很多臺北市的委員，很多其他縣市的委員，各縣市、22縣市沒有一個人覺得是公平的。我們上繳的錢太多了！我們地方要做的事情太多了！但錢都在中央，所以請部長你持平的講，對臺中市或對其他縣市來講是不是不公平？"],["莊部長翠雲：委員，每一個區域的立委都會為他的區域來爭取……"],["顏委員寬恒：對，沒有錯。"],["莊部長翠雲：我們可以理解，這是爭取資源，但是臺灣每一個區域、每一個縣市的自然環境也好，工商發展條件也不同，在這個部分差距這麼大的情況下，財政收支劃分法就有一個要調劑盈虛的功能，然後要促進區域之間的均衡發展，這個部分是要做到的。","另外就是說，在事權的部分，中央所承擔的事權及地方所承擔的事權，跟錢之間的分配也要有關聯，因為有很多事情是屬於中央在做的，所以中央也需要一定的財政能量跟財政韌性。大家都會覺得說自己的縣市分配得不夠多，我想這個部分我可以理解，這也就是說，我們在水平分配的時候必須要有一個很清楚、很明確的指標，讓大家都可以覺得可以有一個共識來做，但是我知道難度非常高啦，因為大家都會為自己的縣市來爭取比較好的資源，這是可以理解的。"],["顏委員寬恒：部長，我再請教有關土地增值稅的部分，土地增值稅是地方稅，是不是地方稅？對吧？"],["莊部長翠雲：沒有錯，是地方稅。"],["顏委員寬恒：是地方稅嘛，就是地價稅、田賦，還有房屋稅之類的，都是地方稅。"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["顏委員寬恒：本席認為這部分應該百分之百要都歸給地方政府才對，為什麼中央還要抽走20%來做統籌分配呢？這是什麼法？"],["莊部長翠雲：抽走了以後其實又分配下去，還是分配下去，不是中央要拿走，所以對於這個稅收怎麼分成，就是稅收分成的部分，將來也會在我們這邊一起考慮，要不要直接分，還是說，因為土增稅本來就是地方的……"],["顏委員寬恒：你拿走了它的20%，然後也是一樣20%還給它嗎？並不是嘛！"],["莊部長翠雲：不是還給它啦！"],["顏委員寬恒：並不是嘛！"],["莊部長翠雲：對啊，是分給其他縣市……"],["顏委員寬恒：所以一樣就等於是說，這是地方稅，可是有20%必須由中央來做統籌分配……"],["莊部長翠雲：再分配出去，還是分配出去的，會到縣市裡面去。"],["顏委員寬恒：可是為什麼要這樣，比如說土地的地價稅增加，這些應該是地方政府努力施政得到的重要成果，臺北市的成果、臺中市的成果，然後我不知道你要分配到哪裡，這怎麼公平呢？你要怎麼做，這叫黑箱嗎？我可以說它是黑箱嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：沒有，分配的話都是按照公式來分配的，其實在分配的時候有一個很重要的觀念，也就是……"],["顏委員寬恒：城市治理！部長，你很清楚，對不對？城市治理……"],["莊部長翠雲：城市治理，要努力。"],["顏委員寬恒：當然各縣市都不一樣啦，直轄市有它的優點，包括人口集中還有都會發展，所以它都市治理之後的成果一定會比較豐碩。"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["顏委員寬恒：它的地價稅、土地增值稅比較高，可是你卻要拿去做它不知道或者它也不能夠瞭解的這些統籌分配，這我覺得不公平，所以中央不能拿走這20%啦！部長，這個部分我極力的要求，在我們未來的、新的院版出來，我們財政部對於財政收支劃分法、統籌分配款等這一些要做一個全面的設計啦！好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：是，會，要的。"],["顏委員寬恒：這一定要做一個全面的設計……"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員的建議。"],["顏委員寬恒：因為時過境遷那麼久了，民國40年6月到民國88年精省，然後一直到現在，對不對？從6比4到75比25，沒有得到一個合理、公正，大家可以認同的分配比例，當然剛剛也有提到各縣市有各縣市的堅持，每個立委有每個立委的一個責任，但是我相信只要提出院版，然後跟黨團的版本一起來做磋商，我們討論出一個最好的，好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：好，謝謝委員，謝謝。"],["顏委員寬恒：部長，我再來要請教的是，我們的財劃法已經25年沒有修正了嘛，所以我們期待一個健全財政的統籌法的新版本。根據政府公布的國債鐘，截至5月10日，中央政府一年以上債務未償餘額為5.9938兆啦，將近6兆，對不對？對此國人都十分關注，可不可以請部長簡單說明一下。"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，我們的長期債務是5兆9,938億，這個部分在5月、6月大額稅款進來的時候，我們就會優先去做還債，會做還債。我們對債務的控管其實都一直要符合公共債務法的規定，我們現在距離公共債務法的空間其實還有，我們目前實際的債務比率是26%而已，公共債務法的規定是40.6%，我們實際債務占我們GDP的比率是百分之二十六點多。"],["顏委員寬恒：我要這麼講啦，因為每一年都超徵，民眾在意的就是政府今年又從民眾身上拿了多少錢，連續三年超徵接近1.3兆，對不對？我們上次才討論過。"],["莊部長翠雲：不是超徵，我們稅款的每一塊錢都是依法來徵收的……"],["顏委員寬恒：對啦，沒有錯啊，就超徵嘛！超徵1.3兆。"],["莊部長翠雲：只是說收的數額比預算數來得高，那是超過預算數的部分。"],["顏委員寬恒：今天是新政府上臺的第一天，所以我們所有的委員、我們立法院的同仁都希望，尤其財政部，財政部掌管整個國家的財政大權，如何照顧人民，如何法令健全，如何優化我們的財政，這個才是最重要的，好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：好，謝謝委員的質詢，謝謝。"],["顏委員寬恒：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。下一位質詢請鄭天財委員，發言時間5加1分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":262,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-13","speakers":["羅明才","洪孟楷","黃珊珊","陳超明","陳玉珍","賴士葆","林德福","吳秉叡","陳玉珍","顏寬恒","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","賴惠員","王世堅"],"page_start":203,"meetingDate":["2024-05-20"],"gazette_id":"1134901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1134901_00005","1134901_00006","1134901_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查「財政收支劃分法」14案：（僅詢答）(一)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「財政收支劃分法修正\n草案」案、(二)本院國民黨黨團、委員羅明才等23人、委員林思銘等20人、委員許宇甄等16人、\n委員洪孟楷等22人分別擬具「財政收支劃分法部分條文修正草案」等 5案、(三)本院委員伍麗華\nSaidhai Tahovecahe 等17人擬具「財政收支劃分法第三條條文修正草案」案、 (四)本院委員陳\n玉珍等24 人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條條文修正草案」案、( 五) 本院委員王鴻薇等24 人擬具\n「財政收支劃分法第八條、第十二條及第三十條條文修正草案」案、(六)本院委員陳超明等17人\n擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條、第十二條及第十六條之一條文修正草案」案、(七)本院委員賴瑞\n隆等16人、委員蔡易餘等16人分別擬具「財政收支劃分法第十六條之一條文修正草案」等 2案、\n(八)本院委員賴士葆等29人擬具「財政收支劃分法第十六條之二、第三十七條之二及第三十八條\n之二條文修正草案」案、(九)本院委員賴士葆等22人擬具「財政收支劃分法第三十八條之一條文\n修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1134901_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"152697","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152697","tool":"pyannote","id":"152697-pyannote"},"job_id":"1msjwP1dCpmRBSnd","queued_at":"2024-05-30 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Tahovecahe等17人擬具「財政收支劃分法第三條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t本院委員陳玉珍等24人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t本院委員王鴻薇等24人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條、第十二條及第三十條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t本院委員陳超明等17人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條、第十二條及第十六條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t本院委員賴瑞隆等16人、委員蔡易餘等16人分別擬具「財政收支劃分法第十六條之一條文修正草案」等2案。\n(八)\t本院委員賴士葆等29人擬具「財政收支劃分法第十六條之二、第三十七條之二及第三十八條之二條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t本院委員賴士葆等22人擬具「財政收支劃分法第三十八條之一條文修正草案」案。\n【5月20日及22日二天一次會】）\n發言委員：顏寬恒'"},{"time":"2024-05-30 20:56:58","msg":"merging result"},{"time":"2024-05-30 20:56:58","msg":"status: done"}],"result":{"json":"{\"segments\": [{\"start\": 2.51, \"end\": 5.914, \"text\": \"主席、各位同仁。主席我想邀請財政部莊部長。請莊部長。\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 2.51, \"end\": 2.65, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 2.65, \"end\": 2.871, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 2.871, \"end\": 2.991, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 2.991, \"end\": 3.091, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 3.091, \"end\": 3.231, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"仁\", \"start\": 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00:00:05,914\n主席、各位同仁。主席我想邀請財政部莊部長。請莊部長。\n\n2\n00:00:13,579 --> 00:00:38,215\n委員好部長好部長恭喜你就任謝謝我們今天主要是審查財政收支劃分法財政部過去喊出六大修法原則第一個是提升財政自主劃一分配基礎調記財政營需保障既有財源精進分配機制\n\n3\n00:00:39,796 --> 00:00:58,026\n財務不減,但這些都僅僅停滯在空泛的口號,欠缺實際的計算公式及具體作法。因為部長剛剛在回覆所有委員的質詢的時候都有提到說現在財政部才剛要開始要展開版本的作業,\n\n4\n00:00:59,006 --> 00:01:22,295\n那所以意思是說就是沒有版本。已經作業了。已經作業了,但是版本還沒有出來,對不對?所以我們現在還看不到,看不到這個院版。目前財政收支劃分法簡稱財劃法就是在40年的6月制定到現在。那這個部分在剛剛也有提到啦,過去是6比4。但是經審之後,民國88年經審之後把這個\n\n5\n00:01:26,376 --> 00:01:51,842\n競選的過程當中的15%的總收入的15%然後又納入中央所以變75比25現在變75中央越來越有錢那地方越來越窮那人口增加然後地方的財政困難那剛剛也有提到說所有的除了軍事國防之外也都是地方的機關不管是教育衛生各個部都一樣都是地方的機關人是在\n\n6\n00:01:53,021 --> 00:02:11,320\n在做這樣子的一個服務。所以其實對於我們現在的財劃法我們版本裡面也有提到就是說要把總收入所得稅總收入的25%以及營業稅總收入減除這個依法提撥之\n\n7\n00:02:12,541 --> 00:02:40,881\n統一編號給獎獎金之後的全部收入的百分之百以及貨物稅的10%以113年度全國總收入15%的規模來計算中央至少要還給地方政府五千一百多億五千一百多億讓統籌稅款的規模從現在的三千七百多億能夠擴增到八千九百億請教部長你認同這15%還給地方政府的版本嗎?你認不認同?\n\n8\n00:02:42,892 --> 00:03:10,801\n委員沒有所謂的還給地方政府也就是說委員這15%可能是算經審前跟經審後的一個差距但是經審的時候把省政府原來做的一些事項以及包含他的負債都是中央承接了那至於地方政府去做原來省的業務的部分中央是給予補助的所以我們把事權事權跟錢其實要相對應是要相對應的我剛剛在聽你的答詢我都有聽到事實上\n\n9\n00:03:12,341 --> 00:03:19,713\n省政府就是地方政府,省跟直轄市的位階是同等的。對,但是後來省經省以後,他的相關職責都到中央來承接了,是。\n\n10\n00:03:20,954 --> 00:03:42,251\n我們更要說地方民眾現在是繳稅季我們現在辛苦把這些稅金交給中央政府那中央如何補助地方或者是分回主要有三大類統籌分配款、一般補助款、計畫性補助款一般性補助款是縣市政府的稅收上繳中央之後中央再依財政裁劃法\n\n11\n00:03:42,971 --> 00:04:05,387\n公視計算比例配播給地方政府屬於地方政府的財源應得的財源那台中市以台中市為例每年上繳給中央的是1400億那過去四年累計將近6000億但是中央補助地方每案每案的額度都不盡相同我要再說一次一年是1400億那四年的話就是將近6000億\n\n12\n00:04:07,128 --> 00:04:30,754\n那分配給台中市的每年分配給台中市的每年不到一千億不到一千億那我想要請部長你做一個持平的說法你認為這樣子對台中市是不是不公平當然很多像我們昭緯新北市還有很多台北市的委員很多各縣市二十二縣市沒有一個人覺得是公平我們上繳的錢太多了我們地方要做的事情太多了但是錢都在中央\n\n13\n00:04:32,065 --> 00:04:54,819\n所以持平的請部長你持平的講對台中市對其他縣市這樣子來講是不是不公平每一個區域的立委都會為他的區域來爭取我們這可以理解的爭取資源但是台灣每一個區域每一個縣市他的自然環境也好公山發展條件也不同那這個部分差距這麼大的情況下\n\n14\n00:04:55,880 --> 00:05:21,134\n財政收支劃分法就有一個要調劑營需的功能然後要促進區域之間的一個均衡的發展這個部分是要做到的那另外就是說在市權的部分中央所承擔的一個市權跟地方所承擔的市權跟錢之間的分配也要有關聯因為中央有很多事情是屬於中央在做的所以中央也需要一定的一個財政的一個能量跟財政的一個韌性所以大家都會覺得說自己的縣市\n\n15\n00:05:22,995 --> 00:05:25,216\n部長那我再請教齁這個土地增值稅啊土地增值稅是地方稅那是不是地方稅對吧\n\n16\n00:05:50,895 --> 00:05:54,778\n是地方稅。地價稅、田庫、房屋稅之類都是地方稅。本席認為100%應該要都歸給地方政府才對。為什麼中央還要抽走20%來做統籌分配呢?這是什麼法?\n\n17\n00:06:28,250 --> 00:06:28,270\n﹚顏寬恒\n\n18\n00:06:47,015 --> 00:07:11,744\n拜訪政府努力施政得到了重要成果嘛。台北市的成果、台中市的成果,然後我不知道你要分配到哪裡。這怎麼公平呢?你要怎麼做?這叫黑箱嗎?我可以說它是黑箱嗎?沒有分配的話都是按照公式來分配的。公式來分配。然後其實在分配的時候其實有一個很重要的觀念。城市治理部長,部長你有清楚對不對?城市治理當然...\n\n19\n00:07:12,424 --> 00:07:12,864\n委員賴士葆等\n\n20\n00:07:32,031 --> 00:07:55,741\n他不知道或者是他也不能夠了解的這些統籌分配這我覺得不公平所以中央不能拿走這20%啦我用部長這個要我極力的要求這個部分在我們未來的這個新的院板出來我們財政部對於我們財政收支劃分法統籌分配款這一些我們要做一個全面的設計啦\n\n21\n00:07:56,981 --> 00:08:25,488\n好不好?會長。這一定要做一個決定的收支。因為時過境遷那麼久了。民國40年6月到民國88年精神一直到現在。對不對?從6比4到75比25。那沒有得到一個合理公正大家可以認同的。當然剛剛也有提到各縣市有各縣市的堅持。每個立委有每個立委的一個責任。但是我相信只要提出院版然後大家跟黨團的版本來做一個磋商。我們討論出一個最好的。好不好?\n\n22\n00:08:25,728 --> 00:08:26,289\n好,謝謝委員,謝謝,謝謝委員,謝謝。\n\n23\n00:08:35,947 --> 00:08:52,996\n已經25年沒有修正所以我們期待一個健全財政的統籌法新的版本根據政府公布的國債中截至5月10日中央政府一年以上債務月償還的餘額為5兆,5.9938兆這6兆,這接近6兆對不對,國民都十分關注可不可以請部長簡單說明一下\n\n24\n00:09:05,226 --> 00:09:27,344\n顏寬恒委員報告我們的長期債務是5兆9938億那這個部分我們會在5月6月的時候大額稅款進來的時候我們就會去優先去做還債會做還債那我們對債務的控管其實都一直要符合公共債務法的規定那我們現在距離公共債務法的一個空間其實還有我們目前實際的債務比例是26而已\n\n25\n00:09:30,487 --> 00:09:32,192\n公共債務法是40.6,但是我們實際債務佔我們GDP的比例是26點多。\n\n26\n00:09:36,877 --> 00:09:55,815\n我要這麼講啦,因為每一年都超徵齁,民眾在意的就是你政府今年又從民眾身上拿了多少錢。連續三年超徵接近1.3兆對不對?對不對?我們上次在討論過。不是超徵,我們的稅款每一塊錢都是依法來取消的。對啦,沒有錯啊,就超徵啦。超徵1.3兆。只是說收的金額比預算數來的高,那是超過預算數的部分。\n\n27\n00:10:01,681 --> 00:10:20,786\n今天是新政府上台的第一天,所以我們所有的委員、立法院的同仁都希望說,尤其財政部,財政部掌管了整個國家的財政大權,那如何照顧人民,如何法令健全,如何優化我們的財政,這個才是最重要的,好不好?好,謝謝委員的提取,謝謝,謝謝委員。謝謝。現在質詢請鄭天\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2510\t5914\t主席、各位同仁。主席我想邀請財政部莊部長。請莊部長。\n13579\t38215\t委員好部長好部長恭喜你就任謝謝我們今天主要是審查財政收支劃分法財政部過去喊出六大修法原則第一個是提升財政自主劃一分配基礎調記財政營需保障既有財源精進分配機制\n39796\t58026\t財務不減,但這些都僅僅停滯在空泛的口號,欠缺實際的計算公式及具體作法。因為部長剛剛在回覆所有委員的質詢的時候都有提到說現在財政部才剛要開始要展開版本的作業,\n59006\t82295\t那所以意思是說就是沒有版本。已經作業了。已經作業了,但是版本還沒有出來,對不對?所以我們現在還看不到,看不到這個院版。目前財政收支劃分法簡稱財劃法就是在40年的6月制定到現在。那這個部分在剛剛也有提到啦,過去是6比4。但是經審之後,民國88年經審之後把這個\n86376\t111842\t競選的過程當中的15%的總收入的15%然後又納入中央所以變75比25現在變75中央越來越有錢那地方越來越窮那人口增加然後地方的財政困難那剛剛也有提到說所有的除了軍事國防之外也都是地方的機關不管是教育衛生各個部都一樣都是地方的機關人是在\n113021\t131320\t在做這樣子的一個服務。所以其實對於我們現在的財劃法我們版本裡面也有提到就是說要把總收入所得稅總收入的25%以及營業稅總收入減除這個依法提撥之\n132541\t160881\t統一編號給獎獎金之後的全部收入的百分之百以及貨物稅的10%以113年度全國總收入15%的規模來計算中央至少要還給地方政府五千一百多億五千一百多億讓統籌稅款的規模從現在的三千七百多億能夠擴增到八千九百億請教部長你認同這15%還給地方政府的版本嗎?你認不認同?\n162892\t190801\t委員沒有所謂的還給地方政府也就是說委員這15%可能是算經審前跟經審後的一個差距但是經審的時候把省政府原來做的一些事項以及包含他的負債都是中央承接了那至於地方政府去做原來省的業務的部分中央是給予補助的所以我們把事權事權跟錢其實要相對應是要相對應的我剛剛在聽你的答詢我都有聽到事實上\n192341\t199713\t省政府就是地方政府,省跟直轄市的位階是同等的。對,但是後來省經省以後,他的相關職責都到中央來承接了,是。\n200954\t222251\t我們更要說地方民眾現在是繳稅季我們現在辛苦把這些稅金交給中央政府那中央如何補助地方或者是分回主要有三大類統籌分配款、一般補助款、計畫性補助款一般性補助款是縣市政府的稅收上繳中央之後中央再依財政裁劃法\n222971\t245387\t公視計算比例配播給地方政府屬於地方政府的財源應得的財源那台中市以台中市為例每年上繳給中央的是1400億那過去四年累計將近6000億但是中央補助地方每案每案的額度都不盡相同我要再說一次一年是1400億那四年的話就是將近6000億\n247128\t270754\t那分配給台中市的每年分配給台中市的每年不到一千億不到一千億那我想要請部長你做一個持平的說法你認為這樣子對台中市是不是不公平當然很多像我們昭緯新北市還有很多台北市的委員很多各縣市二十二縣市沒有一個人覺得是公平我們上繳的錢太多了我們地方要做的事情太多了但是錢都在中央\n272065\t294819\t所以持平的請部長你持平的講對台中市對其他縣市這樣子來講是不是不公平每一個區域的立委都會為他的區域來爭取我們這可以理解的爭取資源但是台灣每一個區域每一個縣市他的自然環境也好公山發展條件也不同那這個部分差距這麼大的情況下\n295880\t321134\t財政收支劃分法就有一個要調劑營需的功能然後要促進區域之間的一個均衡的發展這個部分是要做到的那另外就是說在市權的部分中央所承擔的一個市權跟地方所承擔的市權跟錢之間的分配也要有關聯因為中央有很多事情是屬於中央在做的所以中央也需要一定的一個財政的一個能量跟財政的一個韌性所以大家都會覺得說自己的縣市\n322995\t325216\t部長那我再請教齁這個土地增值稅啊土地增值稅是地方稅那是不是地方稅對吧\n350895\t354778\t是地方稅。地價稅、田庫、房屋稅之類都是地方稅。本席認為100%應該要都歸給地方政府才對。為什麼中央還要抽走20%來做統籌分配呢?這是什麼法?\n367090\t387790\t⋯⋯⋯\n388250\t388270\t﹚顏寬恒\n407015\t431744\t拜訪政府努力施政得到了重要成果嘛。台北市的成果、台中市的成果,然後我不知道你要分配到哪裡。這怎麼公平呢?你要怎麼做?這叫黑箱嗎?我可以說它是黑箱嗎?沒有分配的話都是按照公式來分配的。公式來分配。然後其實在分配的時候其實有一個很重要的觀念。城市治理部長,部長你有清楚對不對?城市治理當然...\n432424\t432864\t委員賴士葆等\n452031\t475741\t他不知道或者是他也不能夠了解的這些統籌分配這我覺得不公平所以中央不能拿走這20%啦我用部長這個要我極力的要求這個部分在我們未來的這個新的院板出來我們財政部對於我們財政收支劃分法統籌分配款這一些我們要做一個全面的設計啦\n476981\t505488\t好不好?會長。這一定要做一個決定的收支。因為時過境遷那麼久了。民國40年6月到民國88年精神一直到現在。對不對?從6比4到75比25。那沒有得到一個合理公正大家可以認同的。當然剛剛也有提到各縣市有各縣市的堅持。每個立委有每個立委的一個責任。但是我相信只要提出院版然後大家跟黨團的版本來做一個磋商。我們討論出一個最好的。好不好?\n505728\t506289\t好,謝謝委員,謝謝,謝謝委員,謝謝。\n515947\t532996\t已經25年沒有修正所以我們期待一個健全財政的統籌法新的版本根據政府公布的國債中截至5月10日中央政府一年以上債務月償還的餘額為5兆,5.9938兆這6兆,這接近6兆對不對,國民都十分關注可不可以請部長簡單說明一下\n545226\t567344\t顏寬恒委員報告我們的長期債務是5兆9938億那這個部分我們會在5月6月的時候大額稅款進來的時候我們就會去優先去做還債會做還債那我們對債務的控管其實都一直要符合公共債務法的規定那我們現在距離公共債務法的一個空間其實還有我們目前實際的債務比例是26而已\n570487\t572192\t公共債務法是40.6,但是我們實際債務佔我們GDP的比例是26點多。\n576877\t595815\t我要這麼講啦,因為每一年都超徵齁,民眾在意的就是你政府今年又從民眾身上拿了多少錢。連續三年超徵接近1.3兆對不對?對不對?我們上次在討論過。不是超徵,我們的稅款每一塊錢都是依法來取消的。對啦,沒有錯啊,就超徵啦。超徵1.3兆。只是說收的金額比預算數來的高,那是超過預算數的部分。\n601681\t620786\t今天是新政府上台的第一天,所以我們所有的委員、立法院的同仁都希望說,尤其財政部,財政部掌管了整個國家的財政大權,那如何照顧人民,如何法令健全,如何優化我們的財政,這個才是最重要的,好不好?好,謝謝委員的提取,謝謝,謝謝委員。謝謝。現在質詢請鄭天\n","txt":"主席、各位同仁。主席我想邀請財政部莊部長。請莊部長。\n委員好部長好部長恭喜你就任謝謝我們今天主要是審查財政收支劃分法財政部過去喊出六大修法原則第一個是提升財政自主劃一分配基礎調記財政營需保障既有財源精進分配機制\n財務不減,但這些都僅僅停滯在空泛的口號,欠缺實際的計算公式及具體作法。因為部長剛剛在回覆所有委員的質詢的時候都有提到說現在財政部才剛要開始要展開版本的作業,\n那所以意思是說就是沒有版本。已經作業了。已經作業了,但是版本還沒有出來,對不對?所以我們現在還看不到,看不到這個院版。目前財政收支劃分法簡稱財劃法就是在40年的6月制定到現在。那這個部分在剛剛也有提到啦,過去是6比4。但是經審之後,民國88年經審之後把這個\n競選的過程當中的15%的總收入的15%然後又納入中央所以變75比25現在變75中央越來越有錢那地方越來越窮那人口增加然後地方的財政困難那剛剛也有提到說所有的除了軍事國防之外也都是地方的機關不管是教育衛生各個部都一樣都是地方的機關人是在\n在做這樣子的一個服務。所以其實對於我們現在的財劃法我們版本裡面也有提到就是說要把總收入所得稅總收入的25%以及營業稅總收入減除這個依法提撥之\n統一編號給獎獎金之後的全部收入的百分之百以及貨物稅的10%以113年度全國總收入15%的規模來計算中央至少要還給地方政府五千一百多億五千一百多億讓統籌稅款的規模從現在的三千七百多億能夠擴增到八千九百億請教部長你認同這15%還給地方政府的版本嗎?你認不認同?\n委員沒有所謂的還給地方政府也就是說委員這15%可能是算經審前跟經審後的一個差距但是經審的時候把省政府原來做的一些事項以及包含他的負債都是中央承接了那至於地方政府去做原來省的業務的部分中央是給予補助的所以我們把事權事權跟錢其實要相對應是要相對應的我剛剛在聽你的答詢我都有聽到事實上\n省政府就是地方政府,省跟直轄市的位階是同等的。對,但是後來省經省以後,他的相關職責都到中央來承接了,是。\n我們更要說地方民眾現在是繳稅季我們現在辛苦把這些稅金交給中央政府那中央如何補助地方或者是分回主要有三大類統籌分配款、一般補助款、計畫性補助款一般性補助款是縣市政府的稅收上繳中央之後中央再依財政裁劃法\n公視計算比例配播給地方政府屬於地方政府的財源應得的財源那台中市以台中市為例每年上繳給中央的是1400億那過去四年累計將近6000億但是中央補助地方每案每案的額度都不盡相同我要再說一次一年是1400億那四年的話就是將近6000億\n那分配給台中市的每年分配給台中市的每年不到一千億不到一千億那我想要請部長你做一個持平的說法你認為這樣子對台中市是不是不公平當然很多像我們昭緯新北市還有很多台北市的委員很多各縣市二十二縣市沒有一個人覺得是公平我們上繳的錢太多了我們地方要做的事情太多了但是錢都在中央\n所以持平的請部長你持平的講對台中市對其他縣市這樣子來講是不是不公平每一個區域的立委都會為他的區域來爭取我們這可以理解的爭取資源但是台灣每一個區域每一個縣市他的自然環境也好公山發展條件也不同那這個部分差距這麼大的情況下\n財政收支劃分法就有一個要調劑營需的功能然後要促進區域之間的一個均衡的發展這個部分是要做到的那另外就是說在市權的部分中央所承擔的一個市權跟地方所承擔的市權跟錢之間的分配也要有關聯因為中央有很多事情是屬於中央在做的所以中央也需要一定的一個財政的一個能量跟財政的一個韌性所以大家都會覺得說自己的縣市\n部長那我再請教齁這個土地增值稅啊土地增值稅是地方稅那是不是地方稅對吧\n是地方稅。地價稅、田庫、房屋稅之類都是地方稅。本席認為100%應該要都歸給地方政府才對。為什麼中央還要抽走20%來做統籌分配呢?這是什麼法?\n⋯⋯⋯\n﹚顏寬恒\n拜訪政府努力施政得到了重要成果嘛。台北市的成果、台中市的成果,然後我不知道你要分配到哪裡。這怎麼公平呢?你要怎麼做?這叫黑箱嗎?我可以說它是黑箱嗎?沒有分配的話都是按照公式來分配的。公式來分配。然後其實在分配的時候其實有一個很重要的觀念。城市治理部長,部長你有清楚對不對?城市治理當然...\n委員賴士葆等\n他不知道或者是他也不能夠了解的這些統籌分配這我覺得不公平所以中央不能拿走這20%啦我用部長這個要我極力的要求這個部分在我們未來的這個新的院板出來我們財政部對於我們財政收支劃分法統籌分配款這一些我們要做一個全面的設計啦\n好不好?會長。這一定要做一個決定的收支。因為時過境遷那麼久了。民國40年6月到民國88年精神一直到現在。對不對?從6比4到75比25。那沒有得到一個合理公正大家可以認同的。當然剛剛也有提到各縣市有各縣市的堅持。每個立委有每個立委的一個責任。但是我相信只要提出院版然後大家跟黨團的版本來做一個磋商。我們討論出一個最好的。好不好?\n好,謝謝委員,謝謝,謝謝委員,謝謝。\n已經25年沒有修正所以我們期待一個健全財政的統籌法新的版本根據政府公布的國債中截至5月10日中央政府一年以上債務月償還的餘額為5兆,5.9938兆這6兆,這接近6兆對不對,國民都十分關注可不可以請部長簡單說明一下\n顏寬恒委員報告我們的長期債務是5兆9938億那這個部分我們會在5月6月的時候大額稅款進來的時候我們就會去優先去做還債會做還債那我們對債務的控管其實都一直要符合公共債務法的規定那我們現在距離公共債務法的一個空間其實還有我們目前實際的債務比例是26而已\n公共債務法是40.6,但是我們實際債務佔我們GDP的比例是26點多。\n我要這麼講啦,因為每一年都超徵齁,民眾在意的就是你政府今年又從民眾身上拿了多少錢。連續三年超徵接近1.3兆對不對?對不對?我們上次在討論過。不是超徵,我們的稅款每一塊錢都是依法來取消的。對啦,沒有錯啊,就超徵啦。超徵1.3兆。只是說收的金額比預算數來的高,那是超過預算數的部分。\n今天是新政府上台的第一天,所以我們所有的委員、立法院的同仁都希望說,尤其財政部,財政部掌管了整個國家的財政大權,那如何照顧人民,如何法令健全,如何優化我們的財政,這個才是最重要的,好不好?好,謝謝委員的提取,謝謝,謝謝委員。謝謝。現在質詢請鄭天\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.510 --> 00:05.914\n主席、各位同仁。主席我想邀請財政部莊部長。請莊部長。\n\n00:13.579 --> 00:38.215\n委員好部長好部長恭喜你就任謝謝我們今天主要是審查財政收支劃分法財政部過去喊出六大修法原則第一個是提升財政自主劃一分配基礎調記財政營需保障既有財源精進分配機制\n\n00:39.796 --> 00:58.026\n財務不減,但這些都僅僅停滯在空泛的口號,欠缺實際的計算公式及具體作法。因為部長剛剛在回覆所有委員的質詢的時候都有提到說現在財政部才剛要開始要展開版本的作業,\n\n00:59.006 --> 01:22.295\n那所以意思是說就是沒有版本。已經作業了。已經作業了,但是版本還沒有出來,對不對?所以我們現在還看不到,看不到這個院版。目前財政收支劃分法簡稱財劃法就是在40年的6月制定到現在。那這個部分在剛剛也有提到啦,過去是6比4。但是經審之後,民國88年經審之後把這個\n\n01:26.376 --> 01:51.842\n競選的過程當中的15%的總收入的15%然後又納入中央所以變75比25現在變75中央越來越有錢那地方越來越窮那人口增加然後地方的財政困難那剛剛也有提到說所有的除了軍事國防之外也都是地方的機關不管是教育衛生各個部都一樣都是地方的機關人是在\n\n01:53.021 --> 02:11.320\n在做這樣子的一個服務。所以其實對於我們現在的財劃法我們版本裡面也有提到就是說要把總收入所得稅總收入的25%以及營業稅總收入減除這個依法提撥之\n\n02:12.541 --> 02:40.881\n統一編號給獎獎金之後的全部收入的百分之百以及貨物稅的10%以113年度全國總收入15%的規模來計算中央至少要還給地方政府五千一百多億五千一百多億讓統籌稅款的規模從現在的三千七百多億能夠擴增到八千九百億請教部長你認同這15%還給地方政府的版本嗎?你認不認同?\n\n02:42.892 --> 03:10.801\n委員沒有所謂的還給地方政府也就是說委員這15%可能是算經審前跟經審後的一個差距但是經審的時候把省政府原來做的一些事項以及包含他的負債都是中央承接了那至於地方政府去做原來省的業務的部分中央是給予補助的所以我們把事權事權跟錢其實要相對應是要相對應的我剛剛在聽你的答詢我都有聽到事實上\n\n03:12.341 --> 03:19.713\n省政府就是地方政府,省跟直轄市的位階是同等的。對,但是後來省經省以後,他的相關職責都到中央來承接了,是。\n\n03:20.954 --> 03:42.251\n我們更要說地方民眾現在是繳稅季我們現在辛苦把這些稅金交給中央政府那中央如何補助地方或者是分回主要有三大類統籌分配款、一般補助款、計畫性補助款一般性補助款是縣市政府的稅收上繳中央之後中央再依財政裁劃法\n\n03:42.971 --> 04:05.387\n公視計算比例配播給地方政府屬於地方政府的財源應得的財源那台中市以台中市為例每年上繳給中央的是1400億那過去四年累計將近6000億但是中央補助地方每案每案的額度都不盡相同我要再說一次一年是1400億那四年的話就是將近6000億\n\n04:07.128 --> 04:30.754\n那分配給台中市的每年分配給台中市的每年不到一千億不到一千億那我想要請部長你做一個持平的說法你認為這樣子對台中市是不是不公平當然很多像我們昭緯新北市還有很多台北市的委員很多各縣市二十二縣市沒有一個人覺得是公平我們上繳的錢太多了我們地方要做的事情太多了但是錢都在中央\n\n04:32.065 --> 04:54.819\n所以持平的請部長你持平的講對台中市對其他縣市這樣子來講是不是不公平每一個區域的立委都會為他的區域來爭取我們這可以理解的爭取資源但是台灣每一個區域每一個縣市他的自然環境也好公山發展條件也不同那這個部分差距這麼大的情況下\n\n04:55.880 --> 05:21.134\n財政收支劃分法就有一個要調劑營需的功能然後要促進區域之間的一個均衡的發展這個部分是要做到的那另外就是說在市權的部分中央所承擔的一個市權跟地方所承擔的市權跟錢之間的分配也要有關聯因為中央有很多事情是屬於中央在做的所以中央也需要一定的一個財政的一個能量跟財政的一個韌性所以大家都會覺得說自己的縣市\n\n05:22.995 --> 05:25.216\n部長那我再請教齁這個土地增值稅啊土地增值稅是地方稅那是不是地方稅對吧\n\n05:50.895 --> 05:54.778\n是地方稅。地價稅、田庫、房屋稅之類都是地方稅。本席認為100%應該要都歸給地方政府才對。為什麼中央還要抽走20%來做統籌分配呢?這是什麼法?\n\n06:28.250 --> 06:28.270\n﹚顏寬恒\n\n06:47.015 --> 07:11.744\n拜訪政府努力施政得到了重要成果嘛。台北市的成果、台中市的成果,然後我不知道你要分配到哪裡。這怎麼公平呢?你要怎麼做?這叫黑箱嗎?我可以說它是黑箱嗎?沒有分配的話都是按照公式來分配的。公式來分配。然後其實在分配的時候其實有一個很重要的觀念。城市治理部長,部長你有清楚對不對?城市治理當然...\n\n07:12.424 --> 07:12.864\n委員賴士葆等\n\n07:32.031 --> 07:55.741\n他不知道或者是他也不能夠了解的這些統籌分配這我覺得不公平所以中央不能拿走這20%啦我用部長這個要我極力的要求這個部分在我們未來的這個新的院板出來我們財政部對於我們財政收支劃分法統籌分配款這一些我們要做一個全面的設計啦\n\n07:56.981 --> 08:25.488\n好不好?會長。這一定要做一個決定的收支。因為時過境遷那麼久了。民國40年6月到民國88年精神一直到現在。對不對?從6比4到75比25。那沒有得到一個合理公正大家可以認同的。當然剛剛也有提到各縣市有各縣市的堅持。每個立委有每個立委的一個責任。但是我相信只要提出院版然後大家跟黨團的版本來做一個磋商。我們討論出一個最好的。好不好?\n\n08:25.728 --> 08:26.289\n好,謝謝委員,謝謝,謝謝委員,謝謝。\n\n08:35.947 --> 08:52.996\n已經25年沒有修正所以我們期待一個健全財政的統籌法新的版本根據政府公布的國債中截至5月10日中央政府一年以上債務月償還的餘額為5兆,5.9938兆這6兆,這接近6兆對不對,國民都十分關注可不可以請部長簡單說明一下\n\n09:05.226 --> 09:27.344\n顏寬恒委員報告我們的長期債務是5兆9938億那這個部分我們會在5月6月的時候大額稅款進來的時候我們就會去優先去做還債會做還債那我們對債務的控管其實都一直要符合公共債務法的規定那我們現在距離公共債務法的一個空間其實還有我們目前實際的債務比例是26而已\n\n09:30.487 --> 09:32.192\n公共債務法是40.6,但是我們實際債務佔我們GDP的比例是26點多。\n\n09:36.877 --> 09:55.815\n我要這麼講啦,因為每一年都超徵齁,民眾在意的就是你政府今年又從民眾身上拿了多少錢。連續三年超徵接近1.3兆對不對?對不對?我們上次在討論過。不是超徵,我們的稅款每一塊錢都是依法來取消的。對啦,沒有錯啊,就超徵啦。超徵1.3兆。只是說收的金額比預算數來的高,那是超過預算數的部分。\n\n10:01.681 --> 10:20.786\n今天是新政府上台的第一天,所以我們所有的委員、立法院的同仁都希望說,尤其財政部,財政部掌管了整個國家的財政大權,那如何照顧人民,如何法令健全,如何優化我們的財政,這個才是最重要的,好不好?好,謝謝委員的提取,謝謝,謝謝委員。謝謝。現在質詢請鄭天\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.51,"end":5.914,"text":"主席、各位同仁。主席我想邀請財政部莊部長。請莊部長。"},{"start":13.579,"end":38.215,"text":"委員好部長好部長恭喜你就任謝謝我們今天主要是審查財政收支劃分法財政部過去喊出六大修法原則第一個是提升財政自主劃一分配基礎調記財政營需保障既有財源精進分配機制"},{"start":39.796,"end":58.026,"text":"財務不減,但這些都僅僅停滯在空泛的口號,欠缺實際的計算公式及具體作法。因為部長剛剛在回覆所有委員的質詢的時候都有提到說現在財政部才剛要開始要展開版本的作業,"},{"start":59.006,"end":82.295,"text":"那所以意思是說就是沒有版本。已經作業了。已經作業了,但是版本還沒有出來,對不對?所以我們現在還看不到,看不到這個院版。目前財政收支劃分法簡稱財劃法就是在40年的6月制定到現在。那這個部分在剛剛也有提到啦,過去是6比4。但是經審之後,民國88年經審之後把這個"},{"start":86.376,"end":111.842,"text":"競選的過程當中的15%的總收入的15%然後又納入中央所以變75比25現在變75中央越來越有錢那地方越來越窮那人口增加然後地方的財政困難那剛剛也有提到說所有的除了軍事國防之外也都是地方的機關不管是教育衛生各個部都一樣都是地方的機關人是在"},{"start":113.021,"end":131.32,"text":"在做這樣子的一個服務。所以其實對於我們現在的財劃法我們版本裡面也有提到就是說要把總收入所得稅總收入的25%以及營業稅總收入減除這個依法提撥之"},{"start":132.541,"end":160.881,"text":"統一編號給獎獎金之後的全部收入的百分之百以及貨物稅的10%以113年度全國總收入15%的規模來計算中央至少要還給地方政府五千一百多億五千一百多億讓統籌稅款的規模從現在的三千七百多億能夠擴增到八千九百億請教部長你認同這15%還給地方政府的版本嗎?你認不認同?"},{"start":162.892,"end":190.801,"text":"委員沒有所謂的還給地方政府也就是說委員這15%可能是算經審前跟經審後的一個差距但是經審的時候把省政府原來做的一些事項以及包含他的負債都是中央承接了那至於地方政府去做原來省的業務的部分中央是給予補助的所以我們把事權事權跟錢其實要相對應是要相對應的我剛剛在聽你的答詢我都有聽到事實上"},{"start":192.341,"end":199.713,"text":"省政府就是地方政府,省跟直轄市的位階是同等的。對,但是後來省經省以後,他的相關職責都到中央來承接了,是。"},{"start":200.954,"end":222.251,"text":"我們更要說地方民眾現在是繳稅季我們現在辛苦把這些稅金交給中央政府那中央如何補助地方或者是分回主要有三大類統籌分配款、一般補助款、計畫性補助款一般性補助款是縣市政府的稅收上繳中央之後中央再依財政裁劃法"},{"start":222.971,"end":245.387,"text":"公視計算比例配播給地方政府屬於地方政府的財源應得的財源那台中市以台中市為例每年上繳給中央的是1400億那過去四年累計將近6000億但是中央補助地方每案每案的額度都不盡相同我要再說一次一年是1400億那四年的話就是將近6000億"},{"start":247.128,"end":270.754,"text":"那分配給台中市的每年分配給台中市的每年不到一千億不到一千億那我想要請部長你做一個持平的說法你認為這樣子對台中市是不是不公平當然很多像我們昭緯新北市還有很多台北市的委員很多各縣市二十二縣市沒有一個人覺得是公平我們上繳的錢太多了我們地方要做的事情太多了但是錢都在中央"},{"start":272.065,"end":294.819,"text":"所以持平的請部長你持平的講對台中市對其他縣市這樣子來講是不是不公平每一個區域的立委都會為他的區域來爭取我們這可以理解的爭取資源但是台灣每一個區域每一個縣市他的自然環境也好公山發展條件也不同那這個部分差距這麼大的情況下"},{"start":295.88,"end":321.134,"text":"財政收支劃分法就有一個要調劑營需的功能然後要促進區域之間的一個均衡的發展這個部分是要做到的那另外就是說在市權的部分中央所承擔的一個市權跟地方所承擔的市權跟錢之間的分配也要有關聯因為中央有很多事情是屬於中央在做的所以中央也需要一定的一個財政的一個能量跟財政的一個韌性所以大家都會覺得說自己的縣市"},{"start":322.995,"end":325.216,"text":"部長那我再請教齁這個土地增值稅啊土地增值稅是地方稅那是不是地方稅對吧"},{"start":350.895,"end":354.778,"text":"是地方稅。地價稅、田庫、房屋稅之類都是地方稅。本席認為100%應該要都歸給地方政府才對。為什麼中央還要抽走20%來做統籌分配呢?這是什麼法?"},{"start":367.09,"end":387.79,"text":"⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":388.25,"end":388.27,"text":"﹚顏寬恒"},{"start":407.015,"end":431.744,"text":"拜訪政府努力施政得到了重要成果嘛。台北市的成果、台中市的成果,然後我不知道你要分配到哪裡。這怎麼公平呢?你要怎麼做?這叫黑箱嗎?我可以說它是黑箱嗎?沒有分配的話都是按照公式來分配的。公式來分配。然後其實在分配的時候其實有一個很重要的觀念。城市治理部長,部長你有清楚對不對?城市治理當然..."},{"start":432.424,"end":432.864,"text":"委員賴士葆等"},{"start":452.031,"end":475.741,"text":"他不知道或者是他也不能夠了解的這些統籌分配這我覺得不公平所以中央不能拿走這20%啦我用部長這個要我極力的要求這個部分在我們未來的這個新的院板出來我們財政部對於我們財政收支劃分法統籌分配款這一些我們要做一個全面的設計啦"},{"start":476.981,"end":505.488,"text":"好不好?會長。這一定要做一個決定的收支。因為時過境遷那麼久了。民國40年6月到民國88年精神一直到現在。對不對?從6比4到75比25。那沒有得到一個合理公正大家可以認同的。當然剛剛也有提到各縣市有各縣市的堅持。每個立委有每個立委的一個責任。但是我相信只要提出院版然後大家跟黨團的版本來做一個磋商。我們討論出一個最好的。好不好?"},{"start":505.728,"end":506.289,"text":"好,謝謝委員,謝謝,謝謝委員,謝謝。"},{"start":515.947,"end":532.996,"text":"已經25年沒有修正所以我們期待一個健全財政的統籌法新的版本根據政府公布的國債中截至5月10日中央政府一年以上債務月償還的餘額為5兆,5.9938兆這6兆,這接近6兆對不對,國民都十分關注可不可以請部長簡單說明一下"},{"start":545.226,"end":567.344,"text":"顏寬恒委員報告我們的長期債務是5兆9938億那這個部分我們會在5月6月的時候大額稅款進來的時候我們就會去優先去做還債會做還債那我們對債務的控管其實都一直要符合公共債務法的規定那我們現在距離公共債務法的一個空間其實還有我們目前實際的債務比例是26而已"},{"start":570.487,"end":572.192,"text":"公共債務法是40.6,但是我們實際債務佔我們GDP的比例是26點多。"},{"start":576.877,"end":595.815,"text":"我要這麼講啦,因為每一年都超徵齁,民眾在意的就是你政府今年又從民眾身上拿了多少錢。連續三年超徵接近1.3兆對不對?對不對?我們上次在討論過。不是超徵,我們的稅款每一塊錢都是依法來取消的。對啦,沒有錯啊,就超徵啦。超徵1.3兆。只是說收的金額比預算數來的高,那是超過預算數的部分。"},{"start":601.681,"end":620.786,"text":"今天是新政府上台的第一天,所以我們所有的委員、立法院的同仁都希望說,尤其財政部,財政部掌管了整個國家的財政大權,那如何照顧人民,如何法令健全,如何優化我們的財政,這個才是最重要的,好不好?好,謝謝委員的提取,謝謝,謝謝委員。謝謝。現在質詢請鄭天"}]}}}}