{"id":152698,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152698","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/eb839dd47e69d5832cc59a4c15549bb24e67044f11a0c4405e9097dc73d261851429c243362692245ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw","委員發言時間":"16:08:55 - 16:16:01","影片長度":"00:07:06","會議時間":"2024-05-20T14:30:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：審查「財政收支劃分法」14案：（僅詢答）\n(一)\t本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「財政收支劃分法修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院國民黨黨團、委員羅明才等23人、委員林思銘等20人、委員許宇甄等16人、委員洪孟楷等22人分別擬具「財政收支劃分法部分條文修正草案」等5案。\n(三)\t本院委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等17人擬具「財政收支劃分法第三條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t本院委員陳玉珍等24人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t本院委員王鴻薇等24人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條、第十二條及第三十條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t本院委員陳超明等17人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條、第十二條及第十六條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t本院委員賴瑞隆等16人、委員蔡易餘等16人分別擬具「財政收支劃分法第十六條之一條文修正草案」等2案。\n(八)\t本院委員賴士葆等29人擬具「財政收支劃分法第十六條之二、第三十七條之二及第三十八條之二條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t本院委員賴士葆等22人擬具「財政收支劃分法第三十八條之一條文修正草案」案。\n【5月20日及22日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-20","duration":426,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-13"},"end_time":"2024-05-20T16:16:01+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-20T16:08:55+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":355,"blocks":[["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（16時8分）主席、各位委員。有請部長。"],["主席：請莊部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：部長好。財政收支劃分法25年沒有修正了，這樣的一個情況，對越偏遠的縣、越偏遠的鄉就更不利了，基本上會是這樣，所以這個部分財政部這邊要積極一點，如果你們的版本很難拿出來的話，就應該要依立法委員的版本，看怎麼樣去做最好的修正。","有關原住民族的部分，憲法增修條文第十條規定的很清楚，要積極維護發展原住民族語言及文化。然後，憲法增修條文第十條第十二項也明定「國家應依民族意願，保障原住民族之地位及政治參與，並對其教育文化、交通水利、衛生醫療、經濟土地及社會福利事業予以保障扶助並促其發展，其辦法另以法律定之。」這些都是需要經費才有辦法，之所以憲法增修條文會把它列進去，就是這些都是需要積極辦理的部分。根據憲法增修條文，其辦法另以法律定之，所以有了原住民族基本法。","原住民族基本法裡面定了很多需要做的事情，基本上主要就在這個部分，甚至對於交通水利等相關需求，包括很多工程建設，原基法也規定了要成立建設基金，但是這個基金到現在也沒有成立。所以第一個，財劃法25年來沒有修正，我過去也提出針對原住民族地區的財劃法修正條文，也都沒有機會，然後原基法也明定應該設置原住民族建設基金，但政府不成立也不訂辦法。所以這個部分就是我剛剛一開始講的，財劃法25年來沒有修，越偏遠的縣市、越偏遠的鄉，那絕對是最不利的，是不是這樣？"],["莊部長翠雲：目前來說，對於原住民這部分有一些相關的規定，尤其在地方制度法裡面也有一些規定。另外，當然這部分有原基法或憲法裡面對原住民傳統領域或是地區的保障，至於財劃法的部分，它有一個功能就是要調劑盈虛，促進均衡的發展，所以我想在這個部分，對原住民區域發展所需要的經費，依照現行的地制法已經有所規定了。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：你們今天的報告裡面，你們的結論說還要再討論，這個部分已經討論二十……不要說二十幾年了，最起碼我從第8屆當立法委員就開始，各地方的立委都一直提，原住民的立委也提，始終沒有辦法。所以這個部分就誠如我剛剛講的，如果你們因為考慮很多，拿不出版本的話，就希望能夠支持原住民立委的版本，就以今天來講，也有原住民的版本。","所以，針對原住民族地區，你們提到地方制度法，事實上地方制度法也沒有辦法解決嘛。也沒有辦法解決，所以不要去談那個地方制度法。這個部分就像我剛剛講的，我們就講離島好了，離島那部分也是，離島建設基金早就用光了，因為好多年了，也都不修。當然，我有提出離島建設基金的修正條文。所以，類似像這些問題，必須要正式的去面對，部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：是。我想原住民地區，尤其在直轄市裡面的原住民區，因為它不是一個地方自治團體，不是稅課收入劃分跟參與分配的主體，那部分跟地制法有關係，我想這個部分可能要併同地制法那邊去做考量的，對。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：部長，原來的山地鄉有包含，對不對？"],["莊部長翠雲：對。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：對不對？原來的山地鄉有包含，但是後來因為成立五都的時候，有一部分的山地鄉就變成山地區了。"],["莊部長翠雲：是，劃進去了，變成區了，對。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：所以它本來是在財劃法的範圍裡面的，因為地方制度法的修正，結果就不見了，所以這個部分應該要去面對……"],["莊部長翠雲：對。瞭解。是。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：應該去修法，因為地方制度法基本上並沒有去做財源的主要規劃。"],["莊部長翠雲：地方制度法裡面有規定，直轄市必須對……"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：不夠啊。"],["莊部長翠雲：山地原住民區予以設算補助，其補助之項目、程序、方式及其他相關事項，都要跟山地原住民區協商，所以在這部分有……"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，時間的關係，要趕高鐵了。"],["莊部長翠雲：好。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：不是我趕高鐵，他要趕高鐵。最後一句話，我就舉例，譬如說0403地震，受損的建物房屋稅免收，對不對？那地方怎麼辦呢？那是很窮困的鄉鎮，所以中央就應該去補助，地方稅減少了就應該去補助，尤其是花蓮縣更窮困的這些鄉，好不好？謝謝。"],["莊部長翠雲：好。謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。下一位質詢請賴惠員委員。今天的質詢到在場的王世堅委員發言完畢為止，時間可能會延長幾分鐘。謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":262,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-13","speakers":["羅明才","洪孟楷","黃珊珊","陳超明","陳玉珍","賴士葆","林德福","吳秉叡","陳玉珍","顏寬恒","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","賴惠員","王世堅"],"page_start":203,"meetingDate":["2024-05-20"],"gazette_id":"1134901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1134901_00005","1134901_00006","1134901_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查「財政收支劃分法」14案：（僅詢答）(一)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「財政收支劃分法修正\n草案」案、(二)本院國民黨黨團、委員羅明才等23人、委員林思銘等20人、委員許宇甄等16人、\n委員洪孟楷等22人分別擬具「財政收支劃分法部分條文修正草案」等 5案、(三)本院委員伍麗華\nSaidhai Tahovecahe 等17人擬具「財政收支劃分法第三條條文修正草案」案、 (四)本院委員陳\n玉珍等24 人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條條文修正草案」案、( 五) 本院委員王鴻薇等24 人擬具\n「財政收支劃分法第八條、第十二條及第三十條條文修正草案」案、(六)本院委員陳超明等17人\n擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條、第十二條及第十六條之一條文修正草案」案、(七)本院委員賴瑞\n隆等16人、委員蔡易餘等16人分別擬具「財政收支劃分法第十六條之一條文修正草案」等 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00:02:19,912\n原子民族基本法裏面定了很多需要做的事情基本上主要就在這個部分甚至對於交通水利這些相關的這些需要包括工程的很多的建設原基法也規定要成立建設基金但是這個基金到現在也沒有成立所以第一個\n\n7\n00:02:21,679 --> 00:02:24,053\n財、財化法25年來沒有修正。\n\n8\n00:02:25,357 --> 00:02:51,967\n我過去也提出這個財化法針對原住民主地區的一個條文也都沒有機會然後原基法也定了說應該設置這個建設基金原住民主建設基金也不成立也不定也不定這個辦法所以這個部分我們就是\n\n9\n00:02:53,388 --> 00:03:04,278\n我剛講的一開始講的這個25年來沒有修葉偏眼的縣市葉偏眼的鄉那絕對是最不利是不是這樣\n\n10\n00:03:06,772 --> 00:03:34,804\n目前來說對於原住民這個部分有一些相關的規定尤其在地方制度法裡面也有一些規定嘛我想那另外當然這個部分有原基法或其他憲法裡面對原住民傳統領域的或者是地區的一個保障那至於財化法的部分它有一個功能就是要調節營需然後促進一個均衡的發展所以我想在這個部分對原住民這個區域的一個發展所需要的經費\n\n11\n00:03:35,624 --> 00:04:00,036\n依照現行地制法的規定已經有所規定了。這個你們今天的報告裡面你們的結論還要再討論所以這個部分已經討論了二十不要說二十幾年了最起碼我從第八屆當立法委員就開始大家\n\n12\n00:04:31,787 --> 00:04:49,156\n本院委員賴士葆等29人分別擬具:「財政收支劃分法第十六條之一條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案\n\n13\n00:04:51,618 --> 00:04:52,238\n本院委員賴士葆等\n\n14\n00:05:14,123 --> 00:05:36,765\n地方自治團體稅客收入劃分跟參與那個分配的一個主體那跟地質法有關係我想這個部分可能要地質法那邊要並同去做考量的對那個部長是這個原來的山地鄉有包含對不對對對那原來的山地鄉有包含\n\n15\n00:05:37,762 --> 00:06:06,631\n但是後來因為成立五都的時候成立五都的時候有一部分的山地鄉就變成山地行政山地區所以它本來是在財劃法的範圍裡面的那因為這個地方制度法的修正結果就不見了所以這個部分所以應該去面對啊應該去修法而不是因為地方制度法基本上\n\n16\n00:06:07,891 --> 00:06:36,182\n並沒有去做財源的主要的一個規劃。他有在裡面規定就只想要是必須對山住民,要設算補助。那他的方式項目跟程序都要跟山住民區來做協商。之前的關係要趕高鐵了。不是我趕高鐵,他要趕高鐵了。最後一句話,最後一句話。我就舉例子。譬如說04、03地震那個房屋稅\n\n17\n00:06:37,455 --> 00:06:37,855\n今天的質詢到這場\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4256\t26924\t主席、各位委員、有請部長。請莊部長。委員好。部長好。這個財政收支劃分法25年沒有修正了。這樣的一個情況對越偏遠的縣、越偏遠的鄉、\n31974\t56644\t那就更不利了基本上會是這樣所以這個部分是財政部這邊要這個要積極的來去這個如果拿出你們的版本很難拿出來的話就是應該要依立法委員的版本怎麼樣去做最好的一個來去做修正好我們這個\n58703\t71015\t原住民族的部分憲法徵修條文第四條規定得很清楚要積極維護發展原住民族與研究文化然後第十條第十二項憲法徵修條文\n74110\t88205\t因依民主院保障原住民族的地位及政治參與,並對其教育文化、交通水利、衛生、醫療、經濟、土地、社會福利事業予以保障、輔助並促其發展。\n89301\t111782\t所以這些都是需要經費才有辦法之所以憲法徵修條文會把它列進去就是這些都是需要積極的來辦理的部分所以根據這個條文憲法徵修條文其辦法另以法律定之所以有了原住民族基本法\n112603\t139912\t原子民族基本法裏面定了很多需要做的事情基本上主要就在這個部分甚至對於交通水利這些相關的這些需要包括工程的很多的建設原基法也規定要成立建設基金但是這個基金到現在也沒有成立所以第一個\n141679\t144053\t財、財化法25年來沒有修正。\n145357\t171967\t我過去也提出這個財化法針對原住民主地區的一個條文也都沒有機會然後原基法也定了說應該設置這個建設基金原住民主建設基金也不成立也不定也不定這個辦法所以這個部分我們就是\n173388\t184278\t我剛講的一開始講的這個25年來沒有修葉偏眼的縣市葉偏眼的鄉那絕對是最不利是不是這樣\n186772\t214804\t目前來說對於原住民這個部分有一些相關的規定尤其在地方制度法裡面也有一些規定嘛我想那另外當然這個部分有原基法或其他憲法裡面對原住民傳統領域的或者是地區的一個保障那至於財化法的部分它有一個功能就是要調節營需然後促進一個均衡的發展所以我想在這個部分對原住民這個區域的一個發展所需要的經費\n215624\t240036\t依照現行地制法的規定已經有所規定了。這個你們今天的報告裡面你們的結論還要再討論所以這個部分已經討論了二十不要說二十幾年了最起碼我從第八屆當立法委員就開始大家\n241067\t271067\t﹝﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞�\n271787\t289156\t本院委員賴士葆等29人分別擬具:「財政收支劃分法第十六條之一條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案\n291618\t292238\t本院委員賴士葆等\n314123\t336765\t地方自治團體稅客收入劃分跟參與那個分配的一個主體那跟地質法有關係我想這個部分可能要地質法那邊要並同去做考量的對那個部長是這個原來的山地鄉有包含對不對對對那原來的山地鄉有包含\n337762\t366631\t但是後來因為成立五都的時候成立五都的時候有一部分的山地鄉就變成山地行政山地區所以它本來是在財劃法的範圍裡面的那因為這個地方制度法的修正結果就不見了所以這個部分所以應該去面對啊應該去修法而不是因為地方制度法基本上\n367891\t396182\t並沒有去做財源的主要的一個規劃。他有在裡面規定就只想要是必須對山住民,要設算補助。那他的方式項目跟程序都要跟山住民區來做協商。之前的關係要趕高鐵了。不是我趕高鐵,他要趕高鐵了。最後一句話,最後一句話。我就舉例子。譬如說04、03地震那個房屋稅\n397455\t397855\t今天的質詢到這場\n","txt":"主席、各位委員、有請部長。請莊部長。委員好。部長好。這個財政收支劃分法25年沒有修正了。這樣的一個情況對越偏遠的縣、越偏遠的鄉、\n那就更不利了基本上會是這樣所以這個部分是財政部這邊要這個要積極的來去這個如果拿出你們的版本很難拿出來的話就是應該要依立法委員的版本怎麼樣去做最好的一個來去做修正好我們這個\n原住民族的部分憲法徵修條文第四條規定得很清楚要積極維護發展原住民族與研究文化然後第十條第十二項憲法徵修條文\n因依民主院保障原住民族的地位及政治參與,並對其教育文化、交通水利、衛生、醫療、經濟、土地、社會福利事業予以保障、輔助並促其發展。\n所以這些都是需要經費才有辦法之所以憲法徵修條文會把它列進去就是這些都是需要積極的來辦理的部分所以根據這個條文憲法徵修條文其辦法另以法律定之所以有了原住民族基本法\n原子民族基本法裏面定了很多需要做的事情基本上主要就在這個部分甚至對於交通水利這些相關的這些需要包括工程的很多的建設原基法也規定要成立建設基金但是這個基金到現在也沒有成立所以第一個\n財、財化法25年來沒有修正。\n我過去也提出這個財化法針對原住民主地區的一個條文也都沒有機會然後原基法也定了說應該設置這個建設基金原住民主建設基金也不成立也不定也不定這個辦法所以這個部分我們就是\n我剛講的一開始講的這個25年來沒有修葉偏眼的縣市葉偏眼的鄉那絕對是最不利是不是這樣\n目前來說對於原住民這個部分有一些相關的規定尤其在地方制度法裡面也有一些規定嘛我想那另外當然這個部分有原基法或其他憲法裡面對原住民傳統領域的或者是地區的一個保障那至於財化法的部分它有一個功能就是要調節營需然後促進一個均衡的發展所以我想在這個部分對原住民這個區域的一個發展所需要的經費\n依照現行地制法的規定已經有所規定了。這個你們今天的報告裡面你們的結論還要再討論所以這個部分已經討論了二十不要說二十幾年了最起碼我從第八屆當立法委員就開始大家\n﹝﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞﹞�\n本院委員賴士葆等29人分別擬具:「財政收支劃分法第十六條之一條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案\n本院委員賴士葆等\n地方自治團體稅客收入劃分跟參與那個分配的一個主體那跟地質法有關係我想這個部分可能要地質法那邊要並同去做考量的對那個部長是這個原來的山地鄉有包含對不對對對那原來的山地鄉有包含\n但是後來因為成立五都的時候成立五都的時候有一部分的山地鄉就變成山地行政山地區所以它本來是在財劃法的範圍裡面的那因為這個地方制度法的修正結果就不見了所以這個部分所以應該去面對啊應該去修法而不是因為地方制度法基本上\n並沒有去做財源的主要的一個規劃。他有在裡面規定就只想要是必須對山住民,要設算補助。那他的方式項目跟程序都要跟山住民區來做協商。之前的關係要趕高鐵了。不是我趕高鐵,他要趕高鐵了。最後一句話,最後一句話。我就舉例子。譬如說04、03地震那個房屋稅\n今天的質詢到這場\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.256 --> 00:26.924\n主席、各位委員、有請部長。請莊部長。委員好。部長好。這個財政收支劃分法25年沒有修正了。這樣的一個情況對越偏遠的縣、越偏遠的鄉、\n\n00:31.974 --> 00:56.644\n那就更不利了基本上會是這樣所以這個部分是財政部這邊要這個要積極的來去這個如果拿出你們的版本很難拿出來的話就是應該要依立法委員的版本怎麼樣去做最好的一個來去做修正好我們這個\n\n00:58.703 --> 01:11.015\n原住民族的部分憲法徵修條文第四條規定得很清楚要積極維護發展原住民族與研究文化然後第十條第十二項憲法徵修條文\n\n01:14.110 --> 01:28.205\n因依民主院保障原住民族的地位及政治參與,並對其教育文化、交通水利、衛生、醫療、經濟、土地、社會福利事業予以保障、輔助並促其發展。\n\n01:29.301 --> 01:51.782\n所以這些都是需要經費才有辦法之所以憲法徵修條文會把它列進去就是這些都是需要積極的來辦理的部分所以根據這個條文憲法徵修條文其辦法另以法律定之所以有了原住民族基本法\n\n01:52.603 --> 02:19.912\n原子民族基本法裏面定了很多需要做的事情基本上主要就在這個部分甚至對於交通水利這些相關的這些需要包括工程的很多的建設原基法也規定要成立建設基金但是這個基金到現在也沒有成立所以第一個\n\n02:21.679 --> 02:24.053\n財、財化法25年來沒有修正。\n\n02:25.357 --> 02:51.967\n我過去也提出這個財化法針對原住民主地區的一個條文也都沒有機會然後原基法也定了說應該設置這個建設基金原住民主建設基金也不成立也不定也不定這個辦法所以這個部分我們就是\n\n02:53.388 --> 03:04.278\n我剛講的一開始講的這個25年來沒有修葉偏眼的縣市葉偏眼的鄉那絕對是最不利是不是這樣\n\n03:06.772 --> 03:34.804\n目前來說對於原住民這個部分有一些相關的規定尤其在地方制度法裡面也有一些規定嘛我想那另外當然這個部分有原基法或其他憲法裡面對原住民傳統領域的或者是地區的一個保障那至於財化法的部分它有一個功能就是要調節營需然後促進一個均衡的發展所以我想在這個部分對原住民這個區域的一個發展所需要的經費\n\n03:35.624 --> 04:00.036\n依照現行地制法的規定已經有所規定了。這個你們今天的報告裡面你們的結論還要再討論所以這個部分已經討論了二十不要說二十幾年了最起碼我從第八屆當立法委員就開始大家\n\n04:31.787 --> 04:49.156\n本院委員賴士葆等29人分別擬具:「財政收支劃分法第十六條之一條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案\n\n04:51.618 --> 04:52.238\n本院委員賴士葆等\n\n05:14.123 --> 05:36.765\n地方自治團體稅客收入劃分跟參與那個分配的一個主體那跟地質法有關係我想這個部分可能要地質法那邊要並同去做考量的對那個部長是這個原來的山地鄉有包含對不對對對那原來的山地鄉有包含\n\n05:37.762 --> 06:06.631\n但是後來因為成立五都的時候成立五都的時候有一部分的山地鄉就變成山地行政山地區所以它本來是在財劃法的範圍裡面的那因為這個地方制度法的修正結果就不見了所以這個部分所以應該去面對啊應該去修法而不是因為地方制度法基本上\n\n06:07.891 --> 06:36.182\n並沒有去做財源的主要的一個規劃。他有在裡面規定就只想要是必須對山住民,要設算補助。那他的方式項目跟程序都要跟山住民區來做協商。之前的關係要趕高鐵了。不是我趕高鐵,他要趕高鐵了。最後一句話,最後一句話。我就舉例子。譬如說04、03地震那個房屋稅\n\n06:37.455 --> 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