{"id":152741,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152741","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ec526bb9f1bdce9dc788eedffdc87af642979da188194bea3b43bbf2d64d2017d6cf560adea53f9a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"沈發惠","委員發言時間":"09:20:51 - 09:32:56","影片長度":"00:12:05","會議時間":"2024-05-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第24次全體委員會議（事由：邀請法務部部長率所屬單位主管列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","date":"2024-05-22","duration":725,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第24次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":24,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-24"},"end_time":"2024-05-22T09:32:56+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-22T09:20:51+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":548,"blocks":[["沈委員發惠：（9時21分）主席，有請鄭部長。"],["主席：有請鄭部長。"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員早。"],["沈委員發惠：部長早。很抱歉，今天我看很多委員大家都睡眼惺忪沒什麼精神，不過對司法及法制委員會來講，鄭部長今天第一次到我們委員會來，我想對我們來講是一個非常重要的會議。部長過去10年在我們司法單位表現的成績，我想社會大家都有相當的肯定，所以在這裡也自然而然的會對部長在未來、在法務部的相關施政上面會有相當大的期待。"],["鄭部長銘謙：好，謝謝委員。"],["沈委員發惠：所以我相信所有司法及法制委員會的委員，今天第一次對部長質詢，應該都是期許大於質問……"],["鄭部長銘謙：謝謝。"],["沈委員發惠：因為大家都希望能夠新人新政，也希望我們看到法務部在過去相關業務上面的一些問題，都會於今天能夠提早來跟部長做溝通。不過，在相關業務就教於部長之前，我個人認為未來可能對部長來講，有一個比較跟我們法務部有雙重相關的一個法條，要來跟部長討論。"],["鄭部長銘謙：是。"],["沈委員發惠：部長不知道有沒有注意我們昨天跟上禮拜五在立法院，大家在院會裡面，從打成一團到昨天冗長的議事進行，通過立法院職權行使法第二十五條，有關所謂藐視國會相關的這些規定，部長不知道有沒有進行瞭解？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這部分我有瞭解。"],["沈委員發惠：有瞭解嘛！包括昨天二讀，昨天在沒有經過討論之下二讀通過的條文，部長瞭解嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：藐視國會，這我有瞭解。"],["沈委員發惠：有瞭解嘛！昨天立法院職權行使法是一個部分，還有未來可能在禮拜五，或是目前已經排案但是還沒有審查的關於刑法第一百四十一條之一修正案，部長也有瞭解嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：是。"],["沈委員發惠：好，因為這部分與部長有雙重相關，第一個因為你就是接受質詢的對象，先不要說你是法務部，你是農業部也是一樣，這事情就跟部長會是相關的，因為你們幾乎就是來立法院接受質詢最頻繁的人物啦！所以相關的規定，我想部長你一定要非常的瞭解，這是第一重相關。第二重相關，未來假設修法按照國民黨跟民眾黨的版本通過的話，相關所謂藐視國會罪的罪責，在刑法裡面不管是什麼部的部長，最後移送也是移送到你們法務部，對不對？"],["鄭部長銘謙：應該移送到檢察機關。"],["沈委員發惠：就是移送到檢察機關來嘛！也是跟部長有最大關係，所以我說你有雙重的相關啦，第一個是你個人部長的身分，接受質詢的身分；第二個，你們未來其實就是這個法條的主管機關啦！"],["鄭部長銘謙：是。"],["沈委員發惠：所以我就跟你探討這相關的問題，我們所通過的第二十五條，有關所謂藐視國會的相關規定，第一個部分，在昨天二讀通過的第二十五條第一項，質詢之答復不得超過質詢範圍之外，並不得反質詢。這條部長說你有瞭解，你應該知道有這個第二十五條第一項。"],["鄭部長銘謙：我知道這些內容。"],["沈委員發惠：你知道嘛，那我就要請教部長，因為我自己也是唸法律的，不過我翻遍所有的法條，我對於「反質詢」這三個字，我實在不曉得法律的定義是什麼，是不是在這裡要請部長一錘定音，因為所有部長都在旁邊看什麼樣叫做反質詢，反質詢這東西在法律上面沒有定義啊！我問委員說：「委員早安，今天吃飽了沒有？」這算不算反質詢呢？或說：「委員剛才你問的問題，我沒有聽清楚，能夠請你再說一遍嗎？」這算反質詢嗎？法律上面沒有定義反質詢，所以大家一定要仰望法務部來做一個解釋到底什麼是反質詢。部長，請你告訴我們所有的公務人員，因為他們所提出來的刑法第一百四十一條之一是規範所有的公務員，所以要請部長現在告訴所有這些惶惶不可終日的公務員，什麼叫做反質詢？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個條文的內容，我想……"],["沈委員發惠：它的構成要件你要解釋，你要解釋構成要件。"],["鄭部長銘謙：我想這個構成要件我們會來再做一個解釋，在反質詢內容，因為如何去界定一個反質詢的……"],["沈委員發惠：目前有嗎？目前的法律裡面有反質詢的定義嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：當然制定藐視國會罪是立法院的職權，那這個法案不是法務部提出來的……"],["沈委員發惠：我知道、我知道。"],["鄭部長銘謙：所以這個……"],["沈委員發惠：但是未來這個案件就是法務部要做解釋啊！"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個是規定在刑法裡面，我想反質詢的這個內容裡面……"],["沈委員發惠：你們未來會研議？"],["鄭部長銘謙：嗯。"],["沈委員發惠：會研議的意思就是說，現在完全不曉得，立法院通過一個莫名其妙的法，要我們法務部來研議什麼東西叫做反質詢，到底這個立法的意旨在哪裡，好像也搞不清楚。目前他們這個法草案裡面的反質詢是跟你部長有關、跟公務人員有關，但是它是罰鍰，它沒有刑責，刑責的部分有喔！刑責的部分是第一百四十一條，就是所謂做虛偽不實之陳述，對不對？部長，我們刑法裡面有關虛偽不實的陳述，目前有相關的規定嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：就是一個偽證罪。"],["沈委員發惠：對，第一百六十八條偽證罪有規定虛偽不實之陳述，所以他們現在所提出來說公務人員於立法院聽證，包括聽證、包括質詢，為虛偽陳述者，處一年以下有期徒刑、拘役或二十萬以下罰金，這部分配合立法院職權行使法第二十五條第九項說，政府人員於立法院接受質詢，為虛偽陳述者，依法追訴其刑事責任。所謂依法追訴，就是要依這一條法，對不對？"],["鄭部長銘謙：是。"],["沈委員發惠：部長，是不是這樣？"],["鄭部長銘謙：對。"],["沈委員發惠：假設禮拜五刑法第一百四十一條之一沒有通過，那依立法院職權行使法第二十五條第九項，到時候移送到你們那邊，你們要怎麼辦？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個移送到地檢署，我想檢察官會依照這個來做一個……"],["沈委員發惠：做什麼？"],["鄭部長銘謙：做一個……"],["沈委員發惠：就是假設第一百四十一條之一的藐視國會罪並沒有通過，但是我們立法院職權行使法通過了。"],["鄭部長銘謙：沒通過的話，地檢署就會不起訴處分，因為沒有裁罰，因為我們的法律還是要經三讀、總統公布的，這才是法律。"],["沈委員發惠：未來立法院假設移送了案件到我們地檢署，說哪一個官員做不實之陳述，所謂不實之陳述的認定，它有沒有主觀的要件？有沒有客觀的要件？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這部分檢察官會依法處理，因為刑法是罪刑法定主義，一定要三讀，然後總統公布才有……"],["沈委員發惠：就是因為罪刑法定主義……"],["鄭部長銘謙：而且有法定，檢方才會依照這個來做……"],["沈委員發惠：請問部長，目前除了國民黨跟民眾黨要通過的藐視國會罪之外，目前的刑法裡面有藐視什麼……有哪一些客體被藐視是會被判罪的？有訂定在目前刑法裡面的。"],["鄭部長銘謙：這部分是沒有。"],["沈委員發惠：沒有嘛？"],["鄭部長銘謙：沒有。"],["沈委員發惠：也就是除了國會以外，包括警察也是你要侮辱他才有，對不對？我們有侮辱警察罪，對不對？"],["鄭部長銘謙：侮辱公務員。"],["沈委員發惠：對，侮辱公務員、侮辱警察罪，公務員跟警察是你要侮辱他才有罪，國會不是喔！你不用侮辱，不用到侮辱，你只要藐視、看不起就有罪耶！所以這個未來……今天部長在這裡，其實跟部長講，因為這個目前還在立法過程中，也不是你們法務部所提出來的法案，但是未來如果通過了，那就很抱歉，部長你就是雙重相關啦！雙重相關啦！你們部裡面針對這個法律的要件要及早進行因應。","第二個，昨天引起北北基地區許多家長人心惶惶，有關殺人未遂在監護中案件的逃犯，目前在北北基流竄，包括很多學校都已經暫停對外開放了，請問部長，目前追緝的情形如何？"],["鄭部長銘謙：目前在通緝中。"],["沈委員發惠：在通緝中？"],["鄭部長銘謙：對，第一時間就有通報……"],["沈委員發惠：我知道在通緝中，目前掌握的狀況呢？能不能讓社會大家瞭解一下？"],["鄭部長銘謙：是，我想我們檢察官會全力要求整個司法警察機關全力來查緝，然後讓社會……"],["沈委員發惠：這樣子所謂在監護中的逃逸案件，目前我們有沒有統計？"],["鄭部長銘謙：目前我沒有這個資料，我想委員如果要，我們可以事後再跟委員來陳報這些資料。"],["沈委員發惠：這個部分要讓社會瞭解，你們每年相關這樣子的……因為這些都是在執刑前實施的監護，對不對？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個是刑前的監護。"],["沈委員發惠：刑前的監護案件，在監護中逃逸，造成社會上這麼大的恐慌，這部分我想法務部在相關的這些SOP，以及相關我們執行監護過程的這些疏漏，我覺得部長也要加以檢討。"],["鄭部長銘謙：是。"],["沈委員發惠：你現在剛上任，對你有期許，希望你能夠加以檢討，不要讓這樣的案件，因為你看昨天這樣的案件確實造成社會的人心恐慌，這個就是我們法務部的責任，好不好？"],["鄭部長銘謙：是，謝謝委員關心。"],["沈委員發惠：還是對部長有很高的期許啦！我們希望未來幾年內，部長能夠展現過去在司法界相關的成績，能夠再讓國人對於我們法務部有更高的評價與期待，謝謝。"],["鄭部長銘謙：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝沈委員、謝謝鄭部長。","接下來有請林委員思銘質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":152,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-24","speakers":["鍾佳濱","黃國昌","沈發惠","林思銘","謝龍介","黃珊珊","楊瓊瓔","傅崐萁","羅智強","林德福","洪孟楷","吳宗憲","吳思瑤","莊瑞雄","陳俊宇","翁曉玲","陳冠廷"],"page_start":77,"meetingDate":["2024-05-22"],"gazette_id":"1134901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1134901_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第24次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請法務部部長率所屬單位主管列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1134901_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"152741","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152741","tool":"pyannote","id":"152741-pyannote"},"job_id":"fxpP4vd8JIXmYCqA","queued_at":"2024-05-30 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00:01:24,075\n也自然而然的會對部長這個在未來在這個法務部的這個相關施政上面會有相當大的期待謝謝委員那所以今天這個我想看這個我們看到我相信所有我們司法法制委員會的委員今天在第一次都對部長大概是應該都是\n\n4\n00:01:26,053 --> 00:01:44,241\n這個期許大於這個質問因為這個大家都會希望說能夠信任新政也希望說能夠在我們過去看到的這個在相關法務部的相關業務上面的一些問題都會希望說今天能夠提早來跟部長來做溝通不過\n\n5\n00:01:44,961 --> 00:02:04,955\n在這個就相關的業務就教部長之前好像有一個比較我個人現在認為說一個未來可能對部長來講跟我們法務部有雙重相關的一個法條來跟部長來討論部長不知道有沒有注意我們昨天\n\n6\n00:02:06,107 --> 00:02:21,035\n跟上禮拜五在立法院大家在院會裡面從打成一團到昨天的這個冗長的這個議事進行所通過的有關立法院職權行使法第25條有關這個\n\n7\n00:02:25,137 --> 00:02:54,042\n所謂這個藐視國會的這個相關的這些規定我想部長不知道有沒有進行了解這部分我有了解有了解嗎包括昨天所惡讀昨天在沒有沒有經過討論之下惡讀通過的條文部長了解嗎這個這個藐視國會這我有了解有了解嗎那還有另外一個部分這昨天是一個部分立法院執行法是一個部分還有未來可能在禮拜五或是現在目前已經排案但是還沒有審查的關於刑法\n\n8\n00:02:55,472 --> 00:03:20,447\n的這個141條之一的這個修正案部長也有了解嗎?是有齁好因為這部份部長有雙重相關啦齁第一個就是因為你就是接受質詢的對象啦齁所以不管今天不要說你是法務部啦齁你是農業部也是一樣這事情就跟部長會是相關的因為你們就是就是幾乎就是來接受立法院質詢最頻繁的人物啦齁那這個所以\n\n9\n00:03:22,594 --> 00:03:41,534\n相關的規定我想部長你一定要非常的了解這是第一重相關第二重相關就是未來假設修法按照國民黨跟民眾黨的版本通過的話未來這個相關的所謂藐視國會罪的罪者在刑法裡面不管是什麼部的部長最後移送也是移送到你們法務部對不對\n\n10\n00:03:43,175 --> 00:04:06,367\n應該移送到檢察機關才對檢察機關嘛就是移送到檢察機關來也是你們也是跟這個部長也是這個有最大所以我說你有相同的相關第一個是你個人部長身份接受質詢的身份第二個是你們未來就是這個法條的主管機關這其實就是主管機關是所以我就跟你探討就相關的我們通過的這個第25條有關質詢有關這個所謂表示國會的相關規定\n\n11\n00:04:12,705 --> 00:04:22,640\n第一個部分在昨天通過的第25條所以二讀通過的啦齁二讀啦昨天二讀的第25條第一項啦齁說質詢之答覆不得超過質詢範圍之外並不得反質詢\n\n12\n00:04:27,030 --> 00:04:52,313\n這條部長你說你有了解你應該知道有這個這個這些的內容你知道嗎那我就要請教部長因為我真的翻遍我自己也是念法律的不過我翻遍所有法條我對於這個反質詢這三個字我實在不曉得法律的定義是什麼是不是在這裡要請部長一錘定音啊因為所有部長都要在旁邊看啊怎麼樣叫做反質詢啊反質詢這東西在法律上面沒有定義啊\n\n13\n00:04:53,752 --> 00:05:19,386\n我問委員說委員早安今天吃飽了沒有這算不算反質詢呢我說委員剛才你問的問題有沒有聽清楚能夠請你再說一遍嗎這算反質詢嗎啊這大家法律上面沒有定義反質詢所以大家一定要仰望我們法務部啦法務部來做一個解釋到底什麼是反質詢來部長請你告訴我們所有的公務人員因為刑法他們的所提出來刑法第141條之一是規範所有的公務員\n\n14\n00:05:23,362 --> 00:05:45,862\n所以要請部長先來告訴所有這些我們惶惶不可終日的這些公務員什麼叫做反質詢這個條文的內容齁那我想他構成要件你要解釋啊你要解釋構成要件那我想這個構成要件我們會來再做一個解釋在反質詢內容因為如何去界定這個一個反質詢的一個目前有嗎目前的法律裡面有關反質詢的\n\n15\n00:05:47,557 --> 00:05:50,179\n會延誼的意思就是說現在完全不曉得了\n\n16\n00:06:15,598 --> 00:06:37,949\n立法院通過一個莫名其妙的要我們這個法務部來研議什麼東西叫做反質詢齁到底這個立法的意旨在哪裡這個好像也搞不清楚啦齁那這個反質詢目前他們這個法草案裡面反質詢是跟你部長有關跟公務人員有關但是他是罰還啦齁他沒有刑責啦齁刑責的部分有齁刑責的部分141條這所謂做虛偽不實是陳述對不對部長\n\n17\n00:06:44,588 --> 00:07:06,246\n目前我們刑法裡面有關虛偽不實的陳述目前有相關的規定目前刑法裡面就是一個違證罪對違證罪對違證罪在168條違證罪有虛偽不實的陳述所以那在他們現在所提出來的說公務人員與立法院聽證包括聽證包括質詢\n\n18\n00:07:10,803 --> 00:07:19,429\n為虛偽陳述者處一年以下有期徒刑、拘役或二十萬以下罰金這部分配合這個立法院執權刑事法\n\n19\n00:07:20,390 --> 00:07:46,004\n的第25條第9項說政府人員與立法院接受質詢為虛偽陳述者依法追溯其刑事責任所謂依法追溯就是要依這一條法嘛對不對部長是不是這樣假設假設禮拜五刑法第141條之一假設啦假設沒有通過那這25條這個立法院直接刑事法第25條第9項到時候移送到那邊你們要怎麼辦\n\n20\n00:07:47,658 --> 00:08:07,207\n這個移送到地檢署我想檢察官會依照這個來做一個做什麼?就是假設141號之一的表示國會罪並沒有通過但是我們立法院事先刑事法通過了沒通過的話那地檢署就會不起訴處分嘛因為沒有這個裁法沒有這個處罰沒有這個因為我們這個法律還是要三讀總統公佈的這才是法律嘛\n\n21\n00:08:14,491 --> 00:08:28,552\n這個這個未來齁未來立法院假設移送的案件到我們地檢署說哪一個官員做不實質陳述所謂不實質陳述的認定他有沒有主觀的要件有沒有客觀的要件\n\n22\n00:08:29,926 --> 00:08:58,073\n那這部分檢察官會依法處理因為檢法那個刑法是罪行法定主義一定要三讀然後總統公佈才有成為那個而且有法定的這個檢察官才會依照這個來做那請問部長目前除了除了國民黨跟民眾黨要通過的這個藐視國會罪之外我們目前的刑法裡面有藐視什麼有哪一些有哪一些課題被藐視是有會判罪的有定定在目前刑法裡面的\n\n23\n00:08:59,714 --> 00:09:21,904\n這部分是沒有沒有嗎?沒有也就除了國會以外你包括警察也是你要侮辱他才有對不對我們有侮辱警察罪對不對這侮辱公務員對侮辱公務員侮辱警察罪公務員跟警察是你要侮辱他才有罪國會不是喔你不用侮辱不用到侮辱你只要藐視看不起就有罪勒\n\n24\n00:09:25,498 --> 00:09:45,870\n所以這個齁,未來齁,今天這部長在這裡齁,其實跟部長講,因為這個目前還在立法過程中啦,那也不是你們法務部所提出來的法案啦齁,但是未來如果通過了,那就是,很抱歉,部長你就是雙重相關啦,雙重相關啦齁,你們這部裡面要針對這個法律的要件要及早進行因應啦齁,這第二個\n\n25\n00:09:48,874 --> 00:10:11,842\n昨天引起我們北北基這個地區許多的家長人心惶惶的有關殺人未遂的在監護中的案件的逃犯目前在北北基流竄包括很多學校都已經停甚至就暫停對外開放了\n\n26\n00:10:13,653 --> 00:10:41,646\n請問部長目前追緝的情形如何目前在通緝中在通緝中對通緝中那個第一時間就有通報通報我知道在通緝中那目前目前掌握的狀況呢能不能讓社會大家瞭解一下是我想我們檢察官會全力要求整個我們司法警察機關全力來查緝然後以安那個那個那個讓社會目前目前這樣子我們我們這樣子所謂在監護中的逃逸逃逸的案件目前我們有沒有統計\n\n27\n00:10:43,769 --> 00:10:59,345\n目前我沒有這個資料那我想委員如果要我們可以事後再跟委員來來呈報這些的這個部分要讓社會了解就是相關你們相關的在這樣子的每年每年因為這些都是在在這個執行前實施的監護嘛對不對\n\n28\n00:11:00,766 --> 00:11:06,470\n這個案件我記不住了行前的監護案件在行前在監護中可以逃逸造成社會上這麼大的恐慌這部分我想法務部在相關的這些SOP以及相關的這些我們的執行監護過程的這些疏漏我覺得部長你要加以檢討現在剛上任對你期許希望你能夠加以檢討不要讓這樣案件因為這樣案件確實造成\n\n29\n00:11:27,202 --> 00:11:51,931\n你看昨天造成的這個社會的這些人心恐慌這個就是我們法務部的責任好不好還是對部長很高的期許啦我們希望說未來幾年內我們部長能夠展現過去在這個司法界裡面的這個這個相關的這樣子的成績能夠再讓國人對於我們這個法務部能夠有更高的評價與期待謝謝謝謝沈委員謝謝鄭部長\n\n30\n00:11:58,823 --> 00:12:01,415\n接下來有請林委員施名持續\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n14546\t41594\t主席有請政部長有請政部長委員早部長早很抱歉今天我看很多委員大家都睡眼惺忪沒什麼精神不過今天對我們司法法制委員會來講這個我們政部長今天第一次到我們委員會來這個我想是也是一個非常對我們來講是一個非常重要的一個會議\n43652\t61107\t所以這個過去部長在過去10年裡面在我們這個司法單位的表現我想大家這個有的成績我想在社會以及大家都有相當的肯定所以在這裡也對\n62659\t84075\t也自然而然的會對部長這個在未來在這個法務部的這個相關施政上面會有相當大的期待謝謝委員那所以今天這個我想看這個我們看到我相信所有我們司法法制委員會的委員今天在第一次都對部長大概是應該都是\n86053\t104241\t這個期許大於這個質問因為這個大家都會希望說能夠信任新政也希望說能夠在我們過去看到的這個在相關法務部的相關業務上面的一些問題都會希望說今天能夠提早來跟部長來做溝通不過\n104961\t124955\t在這個就相關的業務就教部長之前好像有一個比較我個人現在認為說一個未來可能對部長來講跟我們法務部有雙重相關的一個法條來跟部長來討論部長不知道有沒有注意我們昨天\n126107\t141035\t跟上禮拜五在立法院大家在院會裡面從打成一團到昨天的這個冗長的這個議事進行所通過的有關立法院職權行使法第25條有關這個\n145137\t174042\t所謂這個藐視國會的這個相關的這些規定我想部長不知道有沒有進行了解這部分我有了解有了解嗎包括昨天所惡讀昨天在沒有沒有經過討論之下惡讀通過的條文部長了解嗎這個這個藐視國會這我有了解有了解嗎那還有另外一個部分這昨天是一個部分立法院執行法是一個部分還有未來可能在禮拜五或是現在目前已經排案但是還沒有審查的關於刑法\n175472\t200447\t的這個141條之一的這個修正案部長也有了解嗎?是有齁好因為這部份部長有雙重相關啦齁第一個就是因為你就是接受質詢的對象啦齁所以不管今天不要說你是法務部啦齁你是農業部也是一樣這事情就跟部長會是相關的因為你們就是就是幾乎就是來接受立法院質詢最頻繁的人物啦齁那這個所以\n202594\t221534\t相關的規定我想部長你一定要非常的了解這是第一重相關第二重相關就是未來假設修法按照國民黨跟民眾黨的版本通過的話未來這個相關的所謂藐視國會罪的罪者在刑法裡面不管是什麼部的部長最後移送也是移送到你們法務部對不對\n223175\t246367\t應該移送到檢察機關才對檢察機關嘛就是移送到檢察機關來也是你們也是跟這個部長也是這個有最大所以我說你有相同的相關第一個是你個人部長身份接受質詢的身份第二個是你們未來就是這個法條的主管機關這其實就是主管機關是所以我就跟你探討就相關的我們通過的這個第25條有關質詢有關這個所謂表示國會的相關規定\n252705\t262640\t第一個部分在昨天通過的第25條所以二讀通過的啦齁二讀啦昨天二讀的第25條第一項啦齁說質詢之答覆不得超過質詢範圍之外並不得反質詢\n267030\t292313\t這條部長你說你有了解你應該知道有這個這個這些的內容你知道嗎那我就要請教部長因為我真的翻遍我自己也是念法律的不過我翻遍所有法條我對於這個反質詢這三個字我實在不曉得法律的定義是什麼是不是在這裡要請部長一錘定音啊因為所有部長都要在旁邊看啊怎麼樣叫做反質詢啊反質詢這東西在法律上面沒有定義啊\n293752\t319386\t我問委員說委員早安今天吃飽了沒有這算不算反質詢呢我說委員剛才你問的問題有沒有聽清楚能夠請你再說一遍嗎這算反質詢嗎啊這大家法律上面沒有定義反質詢所以大家一定要仰望我們法務部啦法務部來做一個解釋到底什麼是反質詢來部長請你告訴我們所有的公務人員因為刑法他們的所提出來刑法第141條之一是規範所有的公務員\n323362\t345862\t所以要請部長先來告訴所有這些我們惶惶不可終日的這些公務員什麼叫做反質詢這個條文的內容齁那我想他構成要件你要解釋啊你要解釋構成要件那我想這個構成要件我們會來再做一個解釋在反質詢內容因為如何去界定這個一個反質詢的一個目前有嗎目前的法律裡面有關反質詢的\n347557\t350179\t會延誼的意思就是說現在完全不曉得了\n375598\t397949\t立法院通過一個莫名其妙的要我們這個法務部來研議什麼東西叫做反質詢齁到底這個立法的意旨在哪裡這個好像也搞不清楚啦齁那這個反質詢目前他們這個法草案裡面反質詢是跟你部長有關跟公務人員有關但是他是罰還啦齁他沒有刑責啦齁刑責的部分有齁刑責的部分141條這所謂做虛偽不實是陳述對不對部長\n404588\t426246\t目前我們刑法裡面有關虛偽不實的陳述目前有相關的規定目前刑法裡面就是一個違證罪對違證罪對違證罪在168條違證罪有虛偽不實的陳述所以那在他們現在所提出來的說公務人員與立法院聽證包括聽證包括質詢\n430803\t439429\t為虛偽陳述者處一年以下有期徒刑、拘役或二十萬以下罰金這部分配合這個立法院執權刑事法\n440390\t466004\t的第25條第9項說政府人員與立法院接受質詢為虛偽陳述者依法追溯其刑事責任所謂依法追溯就是要依這一條法嘛對不對部長是不是這樣假設假設禮拜五刑法第141條之一假設啦假設沒有通過那這25條這個立法院直接刑事法第25條第9項到時候移送到那邊你們要怎麼辦\n467658\t487207\t這個移送到地檢署我想檢察官會依照這個來做一個做什麼?就是假設141號之一的表示國會罪並沒有通過但是我們立法院事先刑事法通過了沒通過的話那地檢署就會不起訴處分嘛因為沒有這個裁法沒有這個處罰沒有這個因為我們這個法律還是要三讀總統公佈的這才是法律嘛\n494491\t508552\t這個這個未來齁未來立法院假設移送的案件到我們地檢署說哪一個官員做不實質陳述所謂不實質陳述的認定他有沒有主觀的要件有沒有客觀的要件\n509926\t538073\t那這部分檢察官會依法處理因為檢法那個刑法是罪行法定主義一定要三讀然後總統公佈才有成為那個而且有法定的這個檢察官才會依照這個來做那請問部長目前除了除了國民黨跟民眾黨要通過的這個藐視國會罪之外我們目前的刑法裡面有藐視什麼有哪一些有哪一些課題被藐視是有會判罪的有定定在目前刑法裡面的\n539714\t561904\t這部分是沒有沒有嗎?沒有也就除了國會以外你包括警察也是你要侮辱他才有對不對我們有侮辱警察罪對不對這侮辱公務員對侮辱公務員侮辱警察罪公務員跟警察是你要侮辱他才有罪國會不是喔你不用侮辱不用到侮辱你只要藐視看不起就有罪勒\n565498\t585870\t所以這個齁,未來齁,今天這部長在這裡齁,其實跟部長講,因為這個目前還在立法過程中啦,那也不是你們法務部所提出來的法案啦齁,但是未來如果通過了,那就是,很抱歉,部長你就是雙重相關啦,雙重相關啦齁,你們這部裡面要針對這個法律的要件要及早進行因應啦齁,這第二個\n588874\t611842\t昨天引起我們北北基這個地區許多的家長人心惶惶的有關殺人未遂的在監護中的案件的逃犯目前在北北基流竄包括很多學校都已經停甚至就暫停對外開放了\n613653\t641646\t請問部長目前追緝的情形如何目前在通緝中在通緝中對通緝中那個第一時間就有通報通報我知道在通緝中那目前目前掌握的狀況呢能不能讓社會大家瞭解一下是我想我們檢察官會全力要求整個我們司法警察機關全力來查緝然後以安那個那個那個讓社會目前目前這樣子我們我們這樣子所謂在監護中的逃逸逃逸的案件目前我們有沒有統計\n643769\t659345\t目前我沒有這個資料那我想委員如果要我們可以事後再跟委員來來呈報這些的這個部分要讓社會了解就是相關你們相關的在這樣子的每年每年因為這些都是在在這個執行前實施的監護嘛對不對\n660766\t666470\t這個案件我記不住了 行前的監護案件在行前在監護中可以逃逸造成社會上這麼大的恐慌這部分我想法務部在相關的這些SOP以及相關的這些我們的執行監護過程的這些疏漏我覺得部長你要加以檢討現在剛上任對你期許希望你能夠加以檢討不要讓這樣案件因為這樣案件確實造成\n687202\t711931\t你看昨天造成的這個社會的這些人心恐慌這個就是我們法務部的責任好不好還是對部長很高的期許啦我們希望說未來幾年內我們部長能夠展現過去在這個司法界裡面的這個這個相關的這樣子的成績能夠再讓國人對於我們這個法務部能夠有更高的評價與期待謝謝謝謝沈委員 謝謝鄭部長\n718823\t721415\t接下來有請林委員施名 持續\n","txt":"主席有請政部長有請政部長委員早部長早很抱歉今天我看很多委員大家都睡眼惺忪沒什麼精神不過今天對我們司法法制委員會來講這個我們政部長今天第一次到我們委員會來這個我想是也是一個非常對我們來講是一個非常重要的一個會議\n所以這個過去部長在過去10年裡面在我們這個司法單位的表現我想大家這個有的成績我想在社會以及大家都有相當的肯定所以在這裡也對\n也自然而然的會對部長這個在未來在這個法務部的這個相關施政上面會有相當大的期待謝謝委員那所以今天這個我想看這個我們看到我相信所有我們司法法制委員會的委員今天在第一次都對部長大概是應該都是\n這個期許大於這個質問因為這個大家都會希望說能夠信任新政也希望說能夠在我們過去看到的這個在相關法務部的相關業務上面的一些問題都會希望說今天能夠提早來跟部長來做溝通不過\n在這個就相關的業務就教部長之前好像有一個比較我個人現在認為說一個未來可能對部長來講跟我們法務部有雙重相關的一個法條來跟部長來討論部長不知道有沒有注意我們昨天\n跟上禮拜五在立法院大家在院會裡面從打成一團到昨天的這個冗長的這個議事進行所通過的有關立法院職權行使法第25條有關這個\n所謂這個藐視國會的這個相關的這些規定我想部長不知道有沒有進行了解這部分我有了解有了解嗎包括昨天所惡讀昨天在沒有沒有經過討論之下惡讀通過的條文部長了解嗎這個這個藐視國會這我有了解有了解嗎那還有另外一個部分這昨天是一個部分立法院執行法是一個部分還有未來可能在禮拜五或是現在目前已經排案但是還沒有審查的關於刑法\n的這個141條之一的這個修正案部長也有了解嗎?是有齁好因為這部份部長有雙重相關啦齁第一個就是因為你就是接受質詢的對象啦齁所以不管今天不要說你是法務部啦齁你是農業部也是一樣這事情就跟部長會是相關的因為你們就是就是幾乎就是來接受立法院質詢最頻繁的人物啦齁那這個所以\n相關的規定我想部長你一定要非常的了解這是第一重相關第二重相關就是未來假設修法按照國民黨跟民眾黨的版本通過的話未來這個相關的所謂藐視國會罪的罪者在刑法裡面不管是什麼部的部長最後移送也是移送到你們法務部對不對\n應該移送到檢察機關才對檢察機關嘛就是移送到檢察機關來也是你們也是跟這個部長也是這個有最大所以我說你有相同的相關第一個是你個人部長身份接受質詢的身份第二個是你們未來就是這個法條的主管機關這其實就是主管機關是所以我就跟你探討就相關的我們通過的這個第25條有關質詢有關這個所謂表示國會的相關規定\n第一個部分在昨天通過的第25條所以二讀通過的啦齁二讀啦昨天二讀的第25條第一項啦齁說質詢之答覆不得超過質詢範圍之外並不得反質詢\n這條部長你說你有了解你應該知道有這個這個這些的內容你知道嗎那我就要請教部長因為我真的翻遍我自己也是念法律的不過我翻遍所有法條我對於這個反質詢這三個字我實在不曉得法律的定義是什麼是不是在這裡要請部長一錘定音啊因為所有部長都要在旁邊看啊怎麼樣叫做反質詢啊反質詢這東西在法律上面沒有定義啊\n我問委員說委員早安今天吃飽了沒有這算不算反質詢呢我說委員剛才你問的問題有沒有聽清楚能夠請你再說一遍嗎這算反質詢嗎啊這大家法律上面沒有定義反質詢所以大家一定要仰望我們法務部啦法務部來做一個解釋到底什麼是反質詢來部長請你告訴我們所有的公務人員因為刑法他們的所提出來刑法第141條之一是規範所有的公務員\n所以要請部長先來告訴所有這些我們惶惶不可終日的這些公務員什麼叫做反質詢這個條文的內容齁那我想他構成要件你要解釋啊你要解釋構成要件那我想這個構成要件我們會來再做一個解釋在反質詢內容因為如何去界定這個一個反質詢的一個目前有嗎目前的法律裡面有關反質詢的\n會延誼的意思就是說現在完全不曉得了\n立法院通過一個莫名其妙的要我們這個法務部來研議什麼東西叫做反質詢齁到底這個立法的意旨在哪裡這個好像也搞不清楚啦齁那這個反質詢目前他們這個法草案裡面反質詢是跟你部長有關跟公務人員有關但是他是罰還啦齁他沒有刑責啦齁刑責的部分有齁刑責的部分141條這所謂做虛偽不實是陳述對不對部長\n目前我們刑法裡面有關虛偽不實的陳述目前有相關的規定目前刑法裡面就是一個違證罪對違證罪對違證罪在168條違證罪有虛偽不實的陳述所以那在他們現在所提出來的說公務人員與立法院聽證包括聽證包括質詢\n為虛偽陳述者處一年以下有期徒刑、拘役或二十萬以下罰金這部分配合這個立法院執權刑事法\n的第25條第9項說政府人員與立法院接受質詢為虛偽陳述者依法追溯其刑事責任所謂依法追溯就是要依這一條法嘛對不對部長是不是這樣假設假設禮拜五刑法第141條之一假設啦假設沒有通過那這25條這個立法院直接刑事法第25條第9項到時候移送到那邊你們要怎麼辦\n這個移送到地檢署我想檢察官會依照這個來做一個做什麼?就是假設141號之一的表示國會罪並沒有通過但是我們立法院事先刑事法通過了沒通過的話那地檢署就會不起訴處分嘛因為沒有這個裁法沒有這個處罰沒有這個因為我們這個法律還是要三讀總統公佈的這才是法律嘛\n這個這個未來齁未來立法院假設移送的案件到我們地檢署說哪一個官員做不實質陳述所謂不實質陳述的認定他有沒有主觀的要件有沒有客觀的要件\n那這部分檢察官會依法處理因為檢法那個刑法是罪行法定主義一定要三讀然後總統公佈才有成為那個而且有法定的這個檢察官才會依照這個來做那請問部長目前除了除了國民黨跟民眾黨要通過的這個藐視國會罪之外我們目前的刑法裡面有藐視什麼有哪一些有哪一些課題被藐視是有會判罪的有定定在目前刑法裡面的\n這部分是沒有沒有嗎?沒有也就除了國會以外你包括警察也是你要侮辱他才有對不對我們有侮辱警察罪對不對這侮辱公務員對侮辱公務員侮辱警察罪公務員跟警察是你要侮辱他才有罪國會不是喔你不用侮辱不用到侮辱你只要藐視看不起就有罪勒\n所以這個齁,未來齁,今天這部長在這裡齁,其實跟部長講,因為這個目前還在立法過程中啦,那也不是你們法務部所提出來的法案啦齁,但是未來如果通過了,那就是,很抱歉,部長你就是雙重相關啦,雙重相關啦齁,你們這部裡面要針對這個法律的要件要及早進行因應啦齁,這第二個\n昨天引起我們北北基這個地區許多的家長人心惶惶的有關殺人未遂的在監護中的案件的逃犯目前在北北基流竄包括很多學校都已經停甚至就暫停對外開放了\n請問部長目前追緝的情形如何目前在通緝中在通緝中對通緝中那個第一時間就有通報通報我知道在通緝中那目前目前掌握的狀況呢能不能讓社會大家瞭解一下是我想我們檢察官會全力要求整個我們司法警察機關全力來查緝然後以安那個那個那個讓社會目前目前這樣子我們我們這樣子所謂在監護中的逃逸逃逸的案件目前我們有沒有統計\n目前我沒有這個資料那我想委員如果要我們可以事後再跟委員來來呈報這些的這個部分要讓社會了解就是相關你們相關的在這樣子的每年每年因為這些都是在在這個執行前實施的監護嘛對不對\n這個案件我記不住了 行前的監護案件在行前在監護中可以逃逸造成社會上這麼大的恐慌這部分我想法務部在相關的這些SOP以及相關的這些我們的執行監護過程的這些疏漏我覺得部長你要加以檢討現在剛上任對你期許希望你能夠加以檢討不要讓這樣案件因為這樣案件確實造成\n你看昨天造成的這個社會的這些人心恐慌這個就是我們法務部的責任好不好還是對部長很高的期許啦我們希望說未來幾年內我們部長能夠展現過去在這個司法界裡面的這個這個相關的這樣子的成績能夠再讓國人對於我們這個法務部能夠有更高的評價與期待謝謝謝謝沈委員 謝謝鄭部長\n接下來有請林委員施名 持續\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:14.546 --> 00:41.594\n主席有請政部長有請政部長委員早部長早很抱歉今天我看很多委員大家都睡眼惺忪沒什麼精神不過今天對我們司法法制委員會來講這個我們政部長今天第一次到我們委員會來這個我想是也是一個非常對我們來講是一個非常重要的一個會議\n\n00:43.652 --> 01:01.107\n所以這個過去部長在過去10年裡面在我們這個司法單位的表現我想大家這個有的成績我想在社會以及大家都有相當的肯定所以在這裡也對\n\n01:02.659 --> 01:24.075\n也自然而然的會對部長這個在未來在這個法務部的這個相關施政上面會有相當大的期待謝謝委員那所以今天這個我想看這個我們看到我相信所有我們司法法制委員會的委員今天在第一次都對部長大概是應該都是\n\n01:26.053 --> 01:44.241\n這個期許大於這個質問因為這個大家都會希望說能夠信任新政也希望說能夠在我們過去看到的這個在相關法務部的相關業務上面的一些問題都會希望說今天能夠提早來跟部長來做溝通不過\n\n01:44.961 --> 02:04.955\n在這個就相關的業務就教部長之前好像有一個比較我個人現在認為說一個未來可能對部長來講跟我們法務部有雙重相關的一個法條來跟部長來討論部長不知道有沒有注意我們昨天\n\n02:06.107 --> 02:21.035\n跟上禮拜五在立法院大家在院會裡面從打成一團到昨天的這個冗長的這個議事進行所通過的有關立法院職權行使法第25條有關這個\n\n02:25.137 --> 02:54.042\n所謂這個藐視國會的這個相關的這些規定我想部長不知道有沒有進行了解這部分我有了解有了解嗎包括昨天所惡讀昨天在沒有沒有經過討論之下惡讀通過的條文部長了解嗎這個這個藐視國會這我有了解有了解嗎那還有另外一個部分這昨天是一個部分立法院執行法是一個部分還有未來可能在禮拜五或是現在目前已經排案但是還沒有審查的關於刑法\n\n02:55.472 --> 03:20.447\n的這個141條之一的這個修正案部長也有了解嗎?是有齁好因為這部份部長有雙重相關啦齁第一個就是因為你就是接受質詢的對象啦齁所以不管今天不要說你是法務部啦齁你是農業部也是一樣這事情就跟部長會是相關的因為你們就是就是幾乎就是來接受立法院質詢最頻繁的人物啦齁那這個所以\n\n03:22.594 --> 03:41.534\n相關的規定我想部長你一定要非常的了解這是第一重相關第二重相關就是未來假設修法按照國民黨跟民眾黨的版本通過的話未來這個相關的所謂藐視國會罪的罪者在刑法裡面不管是什麼部的部長最後移送也是移送到你們法務部對不對\n\n03:43.175 --> 04:06.367\n應該移送到檢察機關才對檢察機關嘛就是移送到檢察機關來也是你們也是跟這個部長也是這個有最大所以我說你有相同的相關第一個是你個人部長身份接受質詢的身份第二個是你們未來就是這個法條的主管機關這其實就是主管機關是所以我就跟你探討就相關的我們通過的這個第25條有關質詢有關這個所謂表示國會的相關規定\n\n04:12.705 --> 04:22.640\n第一個部分在昨天通過的第25條所以二讀通過的啦齁二讀啦昨天二讀的第25條第一項啦齁說質詢之答覆不得超過質詢範圍之外並不得反質詢\n\n04:27.030 --> 04:52.313\n這條部長你說你有了解你應該知道有這個這個這些的內容你知道嗎那我就要請教部長因為我真的翻遍我自己也是念法律的不過我翻遍所有法條我對於這個反質詢這三個字我實在不曉得法律的定義是什麼是不是在這裡要請部長一錘定音啊因為所有部長都要在旁邊看啊怎麼樣叫做反質詢啊反質詢這東西在法律上面沒有定義啊\n\n04:53.752 --> 05:19.386\n我問委員說委員早安今天吃飽了沒有這算不算反質詢呢我說委員剛才你問的問題有沒有聽清楚能夠請你再說一遍嗎這算反質詢嗎啊這大家法律上面沒有定義反質詢所以大家一定要仰望我們法務部啦法務部來做一個解釋到底什麼是反質詢來部長請你告訴我們所有的公務人員因為刑法他們的所提出來刑法第141條之一是規範所有的公務員\n\n05:23.362 --> 05:45.862\n所以要請部長先來告訴所有這些我們惶惶不可終日的這些公務員什麼叫做反質詢這個條文的內容齁那我想他構成要件你要解釋啊你要解釋構成要件那我想這個構成要件我們會來再做一個解釋在反質詢內容因為如何去界定這個一個反質詢的一個目前有嗎目前的法律裡面有關反質詢的\n\n05:47.557 --> 05:50.179\n會延誼的意思就是說現在完全不曉得了\n\n06:15.598 --> 06:37.949\n立法院通過一個莫名其妙的要我們這個法務部來研議什麼東西叫做反質詢齁到底這個立法的意旨在哪裡這個好像也搞不清楚啦齁那這個反質詢目前他們這個法草案裡面反質詢是跟你部長有關跟公務人員有關但是他是罰還啦齁他沒有刑責啦齁刑責的部分有齁刑責的部分141條這所謂做虛偽不實是陳述對不對部長\n\n06:44.588 --> 07:06.246\n目前我們刑法裡面有關虛偽不實的陳述目前有相關的規定目前刑法裡面就是一個違證罪對違證罪對違證罪在168條違證罪有虛偽不實的陳述所以那在他們現在所提出來的說公務人員與立法院聽證包括聽證包括質詢\n\n07:10.803 --> 07:19.429\n為虛偽陳述者處一年以下有期徒刑、拘役或二十萬以下罰金這部分配合這個立法院執權刑事法\n\n07:20.390 --> 07:46.004\n的第25條第9項說政府人員與立法院接受質詢為虛偽陳述者依法追溯其刑事責任所謂依法追溯就是要依這一條法嘛對不對部長是不是這樣假設假設禮拜五刑法第141條之一假設啦假設沒有通過那這25條這個立法院直接刑事法第25條第9項到時候移送到那邊你們要怎麼辦\n\n07:47.658 --> 08:07.207\n這個移送到地檢署我想檢察官會依照這個來做一個做什麼?就是假設141號之一的表示國會罪並沒有通過但是我們立法院事先刑事法通過了沒通過的話那地檢署就會不起訴處分嘛因為沒有這個裁法沒有這個處罰沒有這個因為我們這個法律還是要三讀總統公佈的這才是法律嘛\n\n08:14.491 --> 08:28.552\n這個這個未來齁未來立法院假設移送的案件到我們地檢署說哪一個官員做不實質陳述所謂不實質陳述的認定他有沒有主觀的要件有沒有客觀的要件\n\n08:29.926 --> 08:58.073\n那這部分檢察官會依法處理因為檢法那個刑法是罪行法定主義一定要三讀然後總統公佈才有成為那個而且有法定的這個檢察官才會依照這個來做那請問部長目前除了除了國民黨跟民眾黨要通過的這個藐視國會罪之外我們目前的刑法裡面有藐視什麼有哪一些有哪一些課題被藐視是有會判罪的有定定在目前刑法裡面的\n\n08:59.714 --> 09:21.904\n這部分是沒有沒有嗎?沒有也就除了國會以外你包括警察也是你要侮辱他才有對不對我們有侮辱警察罪對不對這侮辱公務員對侮辱公務員侮辱警察罪公務員跟警察是你要侮辱他才有罪國會不是喔你不用侮辱不用到侮辱你只要藐視看不起就有罪勒\n\n09:25.498 --> 09:45.870\n所以這個齁,未來齁,今天這部長在這裡齁,其實跟部長講,因為這個目前還在立法過程中啦,那也不是你們法務部所提出來的法案啦齁,但是未來如果通過了,那就是,很抱歉,部長你就是雙重相關啦,雙重相關啦齁,你們這部裡面要針對這個法律的要件要及早進行因應啦齁,這第二個\n\n09:48.874 --> 10:11.842\n昨天引起我們北北基這個地區許多的家長人心惶惶的有關殺人未遂的在監護中的案件的逃犯目前在北北基流竄包括很多學校都已經停甚至就暫停對外開放了\n\n10:13.653 --> 10:41.646\n請問部長目前追緝的情形如何目前在通緝中在通緝中對通緝中那個第一時間就有通報通報我知道在通緝中那目前目前掌握的狀況呢能不能讓社會大家瞭解一下是我想我們檢察官會全力要求整個我們司法警察機關全力來查緝然後以安那個那個那個讓社會目前目前這樣子我們我們這樣子所謂在監護中的逃逸逃逸的案件目前我們有沒有統計\n\n10:43.769 --> 10:59.345\n目前我沒有這個資料那我想委員如果要我們可以事後再跟委員來來呈報這些的這個部分要讓社會了解就是相關你們相關的在這樣子的每年每年因為這些都是在在這個執行前實施的監護嘛對不對\n\n11:00.766 --> 11:06.470\n這個案件我記不住了行前的監護案件在行前在監護中可以逃逸造成社會上這麼大的恐慌這部分我想法務部在相關的這些SOP以及相關的這些我們的執行監護過程的這些疏漏我覺得部長你要加以檢討現在剛上任對你期許希望你能夠加以檢討不要讓這樣案件因為這樣案件確實造成\n\n11:27.202 --> 11:51.931\n你看昨天造成的這個社會的這些人心恐慌這個就是我們法務部的責任好不好還是對部長很高的期許啦我們希望說未來幾年內我們部長能夠展現過去在這個司法界裡面的這個這個相關的這樣子的成績能夠再讓國人對於我們這個法務部能夠有更高的評價與期待謝謝謝謝沈委員謝謝鄭部長\n\n11:58.823 --> 12:01.415\n接下來有請林委員施名持續\n\n","segments":[{"start":14.546,"end":41.594,"text":"主席有請政部長有請政部長委員早部長早很抱歉今天我看很多委員大家都睡眼惺忪沒什麼精神不過今天對我們司法法制委員會來講這個我們政部長今天第一次到我們委員會來這個我想是也是一個非常對我們來講是一個非常重要的一個會議"},{"start":43.652,"end":61.107,"text":"所以這個過去部長在過去10年裡面在我們這個司法單位的表現我想大家這個有的成績我想在社會以及大家都有相當的肯定所以在這裡也對"},{"start":62.659,"end":84.075,"text":"也自然而然的會對部長這個在未來在這個法務部的這個相關施政上面會有相當大的期待謝謝委員那所以今天這個我想看這個我們看到我相信所有我們司法法制委員會的委員今天在第一次都對部長大概是應該都是"},{"start":86.053,"end":104.241,"text":"這個期許大於這個質問因為這個大家都會希望說能夠信任新政也希望說能夠在我們過去看到的這個在相關法務部的相關業務上面的一些問題都會希望說今天能夠提早來跟部長來做溝通不過"},{"start":104.961,"end":124.955,"text":"在這個就相關的業務就教部長之前好像有一個比較我個人現在認為說一個未來可能對部長來講跟我們法務部有雙重相關的一個法條來跟部長來討論部長不知道有沒有注意我們昨天"},{"start":126.107,"end":141.035,"text":"跟上禮拜五在立法院大家在院會裡面從打成一團到昨天的這個冗長的這個議事進行所通過的有關立法院職權行使法第25條有關這個"},{"start":145.137,"end":174.042,"text":"所謂這個藐視國會的這個相關的這些規定我想部長不知道有沒有進行了解這部分我有了解有了解嗎包括昨天所惡讀昨天在沒有沒有經過討論之下惡讀通過的條文部長了解嗎這個這個藐視國會這我有了解有了解嗎那還有另外一個部分這昨天是一個部分立法院執行法是一個部分還有未來可能在禮拜五或是現在目前已經排案但是還沒有審查的關於刑法"},{"start":175.472,"end":200.447,"text":"的這個141條之一的這個修正案部長也有了解嗎?是有齁好因為這部份部長有雙重相關啦齁第一個就是因為你就是接受質詢的對象啦齁所以不管今天不要說你是法務部啦齁你是農業部也是一樣這事情就跟部長會是相關的因為你們就是就是幾乎就是來接受立法院質詢最頻繁的人物啦齁那這個所以"},{"start":202.594,"end":221.534,"text":"相關的規定我想部長你一定要非常的了解這是第一重相關第二重相關就是未來假設修法按照國民黨跟民眾黨的版本通過的話未來這個相關的所謂藐視國會罪的罪者在刑法裡面不管是什麼部的部長最後移送也是移送到你們法務部對不對"},{"start":223.175,"end":246.367,"text":"應該移送到檢察機關才對檢察機關嘛就是移送到檢察機關來也是你們也是跟這個部長也是這個有最大所以我說你有相同的相關第一個是你個人部長身份接受質詢的身份第二個是你們未來就是這個法條的主管機關這其實就是主管機關是所以我就跟你探討就相關的我們通過的這個第25條有關質詢有關這個所謂表示國會的相關規定"},{"start":252.705,"end":262.64,"text":"第一個部分在昨天通過的第25條所以二讀通過的啦齁二讀啦昨天二讀的第25條第一項啦齁說質詢之答覆不得超過質詢範圍之外並不得反質詢"},{"start":267.03,"end":292.313,"text":"這條部長你說你有了解你應該知道有這個這個這些的內容你知道嗎那我就要請教部長因為我真的翻遍我自己也是念法律的不過我翻遍所有法條我對於這個反質詢這三個字我實在不曉得法律的定義是什麼是不是在這裡要請部長一錘定音啊因為所有部長都要在旁邊看啊怎麼樣叫做反質詢啊反質詢這東西在法律上面沒有定義啊"},{"start":293.752,"end":319.386,"text":"我問委員說委員早安今天吃飽了沒有這算不算反質詢呢我說委員剛才你問的問題有沒有聽清楚能夠請你再說一遍嗎這算反質詢嗎啊這大家法律上面沒有定義反質詢所以大家一定要仰望我們法務部啦法務部來做一個解釋到底什麼是反質詢來部長請你告訴我們所有的公務人員因為刑法他們的所提出來刑法第141條之一是規範所有的公務員"},{"start":323.362,"end":345.862,"text":"所以要請部長先來告訴所有這些我們惶惶不可終日的這些公務員什麼叫做反質詢這個條文的內容齁那我想他構成要件你要解釋啊你要解釋構成要件那我想這個構成要件我們會來再做一個解釋在反質詢內容因為如何去界定這個一個反質詢的一個目前有嗎目前的法律裡面有關反質詢的"},{"start":347.557,"end":350.179,"text":"會延誼的意思就是說現在完全不曉得了"},{"start":375.598,"end":397.949,"text":"立法院通過一個莫名其妙的要我們這個法務部來研議什麼東西叫做反質詢齁到底這個立法的意旨在哪裡這個好像也搞不清楚啦齁那這個反質詢目前他們這個法草案裡面反質詢是跟你部長有關跟公務人員有關但是他是罰還啦齁他沒有刑責啦齁刑責的部分有齁刑責的部分141條這所謂做虛偽不實是陳述對不對部長"},{"start":404.588,"end":426.246,"text":"目前我們刑法裡面有關虛偽不實的陳述目前有相關的規定目前刑法裡面就是一個違證罪對違證罪對違證罪在168條違證罪有虛偽不實的陳述所以那在他們現在所提出來的說公務人員與立法院聽證包括聽證包括質詢"},{"start":430.803,"end":439.429,"text":"為虛偽陳述者處一年以下有期徒刑、拘役或二十萬以下罰金這部分配合這個立法院執權刑事法"},{"start":440.39,"end":466.004,"text":"的第25條第9項說政府人員與立法院接受質詢為虛偽陳述者依法追溯其刑事責任所謂依法追溯就是要依這一條法嘛對不對部長是不是這樣假設假設禮拜五刑法第141條之一假設啦假設沒有通過那這25條這個立法院直接刑事法第25條第9項到時候移送到那邊你們要怎麼辦"},{"start":467.658,"end":487.207,"text":"這個移送到地檢署我想檢察官會依照這個來做一個做什麼?就是假設141號之一的表示國會罪並沒有通過但是我們立法院事先刑事法通過了沒通過的話那地檢署就會不起訴處分嘛因為沒有這個裁法沒有這個處罰沒有這個因為我們這個法律還是要三讀總統公佈的這才是法律嘛"},{"start":494.491,"end":508.552,"text":"這個這個未來齁未來立法院假設移送的案件到我們地檢署說哪一個官員做不實質陳述所謂不實質陳述的認定他有沒有主觀的要件有沒有客觀的要件"},{"start":509.926,"end":538.073,"text":"那這部分檢察官會依法處理因為檢法那個刑法是罪行法定主義一定要三讀然後總統公佈才有成為那個而且有法定的這個檢察官才會依照這個來做那請問部長目前除了除了國民黨跟民眾黨要通過的這個藐視國會罪之外我們目前的刑法裡面有藐視什麼有哪一些有哪一些課題被藐視是有會判罪的有定定在目前刑法裡面的"},{"start":539.714,"end":561.904,"text":"這部分是沒有沒有嗎?沒有也就除了國會以外你包括警察也是你要侮辱他才有對不對我們有侮辱警察罪對不對這侮辱公務員對侮辱公務員侮辱警察罪公務員跟警察是你要侮辱他才有罪國會不是喔你不用侮辱不用到侮辱你只要藐視看不起就有罪勒"},{"start":565.498,"end":585.87,"text":"所以這個齁,未來齁,今天這部長在這裡齁,其實跟部長講,因為這個目前還在立法過程中啦,那也不是你們法務部所提出來的法案啦齁,但是未來如果通過了,那就是,很抱歉,部長你就是雙重相關啦,雙重相關啦齁,你們這部裡面要針對這個法律的要件要及早進行因應啦齁,這第二個"},{"start":588.874,"end":611.842,"text":"昨天引起我們北北基這個地區許多的家長人心惶惶的有關殺人未遂的在監護中的案件的逃犯目前在北北基流竄包括很多學校都已經停甚至就暫停對外開放了"},{"start":613.653,"end":641.646,"text":"請問部長目前追緝的情形如何目前在通緝中在通緝中對通緝中那個第一時間就有通報通報我知道在通緝中那目前目前掌握的狀況呢能不能讓社會大家瞭解一下是我想我們檢察官會全力要求整個我們司法警察機關全力來查緝然後以安那個那個那個讓社會目前目前這樣子我們我們這樣子所謂在監護中的逃逸逃逸的案件目前我們有沒有統計"},{"start":643.769,"end":659.345,"text":"目前我沒有這個資料那我想委員如果要我們可以事後再跟委員來來呈報這些的這個部分要讓社會了解就是相關你們相關的在這樣子的每年每年因為這些都是在在這個執行前實施的監護嘛對不對"},{"start":660.766,"end":666.47,"text":"這個案件我記不住了 行前的監護案件在行前在監護中可以逃逸造成社會上這麼大的恐慌這部分我想法務部在相關的這些SOP以及相關的這些我們的執行監護過程的這些疏漏我覺得部長你要加以檢討現在剛上任對你期許希望你能夠加以檢討不要讓這樣案件因為這樣案件確實造成"},{"start":687.202,"end":711.931,"text":"你看昨天造成的這個社會的這些人心恐慌這個就是我們法務部的責任好不好還是對部長很高的期許啦我們希望說未來幾年內我們部長能夠展現過去在這個司法界裡面的這個這個相關的這樣子的成績能夠再讓國人對於我們這個法務部能夠有更高的評價與期待謝謝謝謝沈委員 謝謝鄭部長"},{"start":718.823,"end":721.415,"text":"接下來有請林委員施名 持續"}]}}}}