{"id":152748,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152748","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ec526bb9f1bdce9d484302e661f2b2906fc1a8a999f94a213b43bbf2d64d201712711eb9931fe1bb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"柯志恩","委員發言時間":"09:30:41 - 09:41:53","影片長度":"00:11:12","會議時間":"2024-05-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：邀請文化部部長李遠列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【5月22日及23日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-22","duration":672,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-13"},"end_time":"2024-05-22T09:41:53+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-22T09:30:41+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":107,"blocks":[["柯委員志恩：（9時30分）謝謝召委，我們請李遠部長。"],["主席：有請李部長。"],["柯委員志恩：部長好。在歷任文化部長當中，你在文化領域工作可以說是最久的，資歷也最完備，所以你剛上任的時候，我認為你在內閣當中還算是非常亮眼的一個。但是部長，我要老實說，對於你的這個業務報告我還是有點失望，因為我看不到小野的理念，不要忘記，我是看你「蛹之生」長大的，好不好？我沒看到你的理念，你幾乎就是把史哲的33頁濃縮改成19頁。像你最近提到華視，希望能夠用民股把它買回來，而且你對華視未來的轉型最能夠著力，因為你曾經在那邊工作，可是我沒有在你的業務報告中看到任何一項，我們認為可能你剛上來，所以你只能就現有的部分做一些刪減，這是我覺得比較可惜的地方。而且我為什麼要特別提出來？因為我很想看看你的想法，歷年來文化部被認為是一個撒錢的大部，沒有看到太多令人耳目一新的文化政策，所以部長，在框架下面，你會不會覺得有志難伸？我希望不會有，可是到目前為止，你有嗎？"],["李部長遠：報告委員，我從以前到現在都沒有政黨屬性，然後我不管早期在中央電影公司、國民黨的電影機構裡做了8年，或者在柯文哲……"],["柯委員志恩：部長，你講話快一點，我問題很多。"],["李部長遠：OK，好。我的所有經驗都不受政治……"],["柯委員志恩：好，非常好，反正你就不會有框架的限制，你的意思就在這個地方。"],["李部長遠：對。"],["柯委員志恩：好，我們直接進入主題。因為我剛剛特別提到在影視文化方面，我們對你有非常高的期待。那我們來看一下，最近最紅的就是泰勒絲在新加坡，他一週幾乎可以創造5億美元的收益，這不會只是單一的團體，而是整個新加坡傾全政府之力來促成這樣的一件事情。目前來說，臺灣有一些場地、臺灣有這樣子的一個經驗，臺北和高雄都極力要去做，但這不是單一市政府就有辦法的，新加坡是用政府之力來做這件事情，所以部長，你要不要把泰勒絲當做你的工作項目？"],["李部長遠：我還沒想到要請泰勒絲來。"],["柯委員志恩：因為他未來2年當中有可能到臺灣來，所以你現在沒有想到他，我提醒你，好不好？"],["李部長遠：我還沒想到。"],["柯委員志恩：你可以把它當做是一個很大的工作目標，因為這沒有文化部涉入的話，很難有辦法達成。","接下來，因為賴總統特別在鄭南榕的紀念會上說，他要洗滌每一個人的人心，那麼我們就來看看如何洗滌。我最近看到一則新聞，因為很多時候大家認為中正紀念堂牽涉到轉型正義，要來轉型，所以就傳出文化部在研議要撤掉裡面的三軍儀隊。這是在你擔任部長之前傳出來的，我不曉得是不是上一任部長把這件工作交接給你，還是你們這些一級主管在沒有經過你允許之下，就放出這樣的一個訊息？部長，你可不可以做個澄清？而且過去也曾經提過這樣的意見，最近又提出來，當時的國防部長認為撤掉是不宜的，但是我們現在的國防部長已經換成顧立雄，或許你可以內外彼此配合，這件事情會成形嗎？"],["李部長遠：其實中正紀念堂對我來講，我一直覺得民眾的休閒跟擴大他的休息更重要。我覺得你對於威權的看法，什麼樣代表威權？那個銅像的存在是不是威權？儀隊是不是代表威權？我覺得見仁見智。我很不喜歡那種形式的東西，所以您剛剛講的我沒有聽過呢！"],["柯委員志恩：很好！我也完全贊同，不用賦予任何一個建築物太多意識形態的意義，所以我只是提醒，因為已經開始放出這樣的訊息，所以目前為止，這不是你首要的工作就對了。好！","接下來是我們剛剛提到的，為什麼我要特別提到這件事？因為大家都把中正紀念堂當做轉型正義的一部分，那我們現在來看看文化部真正的正義到底在哪裡？我們先看臺文館，我不曉得部長知不知道臺文館提出限制性招標的理由？我等一下再跟你討論這裡面目前有多少舞弊，因為它陷入了抄襲的風波，每年都給抄襲廠商使用限制性招標。請問部長，你知不知道臺文館提出限制性招標的理由是什麼？"],["李部長遠：通常在公家機關，限制性招標還是一個公開對外……"],["柯委員志恩：我懂啊！這都在採購法裡面，我完全可以同意，但他們是基於什麼樣的理由？是基於專業服務、技術服務、資訊服務或社會服務？這在你們的條文上是基於哪一個部分？"],["李部長遠：您問得非常對，所以這件事情基本上我們已經把前七年的招標過程交給政風處處理。"],["柯委員志恩：喔，你們交給政風處處理了？"],["李部長遠：而且他們已經下到臺南去看過了。"],["柯委員志恩：我什麼時候可以拿到相關的報告資料？因為你看，它連證據也都是偽造的，而且最重要的是這個廠商從2017年到現在已經獲得37項政府補助，金額從460萬到1,460萬，總共得到七千多萬的補助，其中臺文館就占了1,259萬，所以有關臺文館的管理高層，你認為誰該負責？"],["李部長遠：這個事情我們已經處理過了，第一是由政風處直接去查七年來的整個招標過程，第二是臺文館本身也提出要懲處這個承辦人員，另外是首長、副首長也自請處分。所以我在這裡跟大家講，我來到文化部第一個就遇到這個問題，這等於是送給我一個禮物，因為文化部會發生這種抄襲事件，對我來講非常痛心，因為我們一直在強調我們臺灣要有自己的IP，這個IP包括剛剛我講到的電影也好、文學也好、動漫也好……"],["柯委員志恩：好，部長，既然政風處去查，希望它最後給我們一個非常清楚的報告……"],["李部長遠：這個沒有問題。"],["柯委員志恩：因為我今天要特別提到的是，不管是抄襲問題，或是我剛剛所提到的限制性招標的問題，抄襲方面包括這個主視覺，當然，每個人都說是要去跟這個法國藝術家致敬。像你剛剛說到韓劇，我覺得「致敬」這個部分就像韓劇「淚之女王」裡面有很多婚紗鏡頭是要對「愛的迫降」致敬。還沒有開始講就要跟人家「致敬」，你不覺得這有抄襲之嫌嗎？"],["李部長遠：你是說哪一個？"],["柯委員志恩：我說我們賴總統就職典禮的主視覺。你果然沒看過韓劇，完全沒有進入到我們的……"],["李部長遠：這個我好像很難評論它有沒有抄襲耶！"],["柯委員志恩：總而言之，這個東西見仁見智，所以他剛剛就已經特別提到，當我們認為有抄襲的時候，這個單位就馬上告訴我們：我們是在向藝術致敬。其實這是沒有辦法說服我們的！","回到我剛剛說的限制性招標，目前引起最大爭議的就是「1624」這部歌仔音樂劇，我不管它的內容，只管它的經費，部長，你可以從這個地方來看，你們說完全沒有排擠其他補助，但我還是要指出來，你們文化部動用兩個項目，一個是有關表演藝術的輔助推動，你們編列了三億多，但光是補助這個劇就占了四分之一；你們動用的另外一個部分是傳統藝術推廣計畫，在這個計畫當中，這部劇就占了二分之一的補助款。你怎麼可以告訴我說它完全沒有排擠其他藝術團體的使用呢？怎麼可能呢？","沒關係，我還是要部長回應。"],["李部長遠：OK，好。我先回到這個戲，這個戲我沒有看過，但是……"],["柯委員志恩：部長，請你針對它的預算、經費的限制性招標的部分來說明。"],["李部長遠：據我瞭解，這個案子是傳藝中心直接來跟文化部申請，它所用的費用不如外面所講的那樣排擠了其他的費用。"],["柯委員志恩：但是一齣戲兩天燒掉8,600萬，對於這樣的製作，你剛剛還特別提到我們的資源分配，你們花了8,600萬去做這樣的處理。從文人的角度來看，每個藝術團體都渴望得到很多補助，你覺得為這樣一個音樂劇燒掉這麼多錢合理嗎？"],["李部長遠：其實「1624」是一個非常大的特例，因為它配合臺南建城400年，以我個人做過戲劇的經驗，我昨天晚上特別把「1624」這本書整個看一遍，因為我沒有看過這個表演，可是書裡面有非常多我的朋友，他們的反映都非常驚訝，覺得包括……"],["柯委員志恩：如果文化部提供給其他人員的經費可以有這麼多，我完全同意，我現在只告訴你，當你在有限制的經費之下，分配給他們這麼多，燒掉這麼多錢，然後最重要的是，它還是屬於限制性招標。所以本席還是強烈希望部長能在最快的時間當中，把這部「1624」所有的花費項目上網公告（如果覺得這麼沒有排擠到其他部分的話），並且在三天之內提供評審委員的名單，可不可以？"],["李部長遠：可以，我想我們……"],["柯委員志恩：我覺得這個部分你們還是要追查清楚。"],["李部長遠：我想我們做得到，包括所有的經費怎麼花費，還有整個過程如何……"],["柯委員志恩：對，你們上網公布這些經費，因為有太多人質疑這個部分。然後是有關評審、審查的名單，私下交給我來處理。"],["李部長遠：OK，三天我們做得到，因為自己內部也對這件事情有點覺得被誤會。"],["柯委員志恩：很好啊！就趕快來做一些澄清啊！最重要是有非常多其他的文化團體對這件事情是很有想法的，這些都是你很關切的文化團體。"],["李部長遠：我懂、我懂。"],["柯委員志恩：還是一句話，當你經費有限的時候，應該做最好的分配，而不是獨鍾說「這個很好」。你要是有上百億的經費、上千萬的經費，要多做這個，我沒有意見！更何況它兩天就燒掉8,600萬，所以本席強烈要求，我需要你們把所有的細項全部告訴我一下。"],["李部長遠：是，這點我們一定做到。"],["柯委員志恩：另外，我對部長期待最多的就是你未來如何看待華視公共化這件事情，距你當初離開18年後，現在再次回到這樣一個位置上面來，在你當初離開和這次回來裡面，對於公廣集團所有的管理和它未來的走向，我希望你能提出一個最務實的做法，你現在握有權力，你是有辦法做到的。我們拭目以待！"],["李部長遠：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝柯志恩召委，部長請回。","我們接下來請洪孟楷委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":154,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-13","speakers":["林宜瑾","萬美玲","柯志恩","洪孟楷","羅廷瑋","葛如鈞","陳秀寳","張雅琳","陳培瑜","郭昱晴","吳春城","范雲","葉元之","吳沛憶","蘇巧慧","林倩綺","楊瓊瓔","麥玉珍","高金素梅","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","張智倫","陳冠廷","林楚茵"],"page_start":85,"meetingDate":["2024-05-22"],"gazette_id":"1135001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135001_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請文化部部長李遠列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1135001_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"152748","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.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\"一\", \"start\": 636.395, \"end\": 636.415, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 636.415, \"end\": 636.435, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,089 --> 00:00:00,429\n理事長李遠\n\n2\n00:00:15,066 --> 00:00:15,346\n我對於你的這個業務報告我還是有點失望\n\n3\n00:00:31,727 --> 00:00:44,653\n因為我看不到小野的理念不要忘記我是看你勇之聲長大的好不好所以我沒看到你的理念你幾乎就是把史哲的33頁改成濃縮成19頁當中像你最近提到你就說你要把華氏希望能夠用民股把它買回來而且你是最能夠對華氏的未來的轉型著力最多因為你曾經在那邊工作過可是我沒有在你的業務報告中看到任何的遺像我覺得這是\n\n4\n00:00:56,238 --> 00:01:01,520\n可能我們認為是你剛上來所以說你就只能把現有的部分來做一些刪減這是我覺得比較可惜的地方而且呢我為什麼要特別提出來因為我很想看看你的想法過去的歷年來我們文化部被認為就是一個撒錢的大部所以說呢沒有看到太多令人耳目一新的文化的一個政策所以呢部長你會不會在被框架下面你會不會有覺得有有志男生的我希望不會有可是到目前為止你有嗎\n\n5\n00:01:28,638 --> 00:01:42,763\n報告委員我從以前到現在我都沒有政黨屬性然後我不管去早期在中央電影公司國民黨的電影機構裡做了8年或者在科文社部部長你的講話快一點我問題很好\n\n6\n00:01:46,155 --> 00:01:48,998\n最近大家最紅的就是我們的泰勒斯在新加坡他幾乎可以創造一週五億美元的一個收益\n\n7\n00:02:06,095 --> 00:02:28,641\n那這不會只是一個單一的團體是整個新加坡請全政府之力來促成這樣的一件事情那目前來說台灣有一些的場地台灣有這樣子的一個經驗台北跟高雄都極力要來去做但這不是單一這個市政府就有辦法的所以說你認為新加坡用這個政府之力來做這件事情部長你要不要把泰德斯當作是你的工作項目\n\n8\n00:02:30,014 --> 00:02:40,284\n我還沒想到請泰勒斯來因為他未來兩年當中有可能到台灣來所以說你現在沒有想到他我提醒你好不好你可以把它當作是一個很大的工作目標因為這沒有文化部涉入的話很難是有辦法來去把它達成的那接下來呢我們來看一下因為呢我們賴總統特別在鄭楠榮的紀念會上說他要洗滌每一個人的人心好了我們就來看看\n\n9\n00:02:53,516 --> 00:03:22,308\n如何來洗滌我最近看到這一則新聞就是呢很多時候呢這個中正紀念塔大家認為是轉型正要來轉型所以呢就傳出文化部在研議要撤掉這裡面的三軍儀隊這是你在你擔任部長之前所傳流出來的我不曉得是不是上任的部長把這件工作交接給你呢還是你們這些一級主管在沒有經過你允許之下就在放出這樣的一個訊息不知道你可以做個澄清\n\n10\n00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:32,527\n而且呢過去也曾經有提過這樣的一個案件是最近又提出來當時的國防部長認為撤掉不宜但是我們現在的國防部長已經換了人了已經換了顧立雄或許你可以內外來彼此配合這件事情會成行嗎其實中正經濟長對我來講齁\n\n11\n00:03:44,059 --> 00:04:01,865\n我一直覺得民眾的休閒跟擴大他的休息更重要我覺得你對於威權的看法什麼樣代表威權那個同樣的存在是不是威權儀隊是不是代表威權我覺得見仁見智我很不喜歡那種形式的東西所以您剛剛講這個我沒有聽過\n\n12\n00:04:02,925 --> 00:04:17,285\n很好,所以我也完全贊同不用把任何一個建築物賦予他太多意識形態的一個意義所以我只是提醒因為已經開始放出這樣一個部分所以目前為止不是你首要去做的一件工作就對了\n\n13\n00:04:18,507 --> 00:04:38,415\n那接下來我們剛提到了為什麽我要特別提到因為大家都把尊人機場當作是轉型正義的一部分了那我們現在來看看這個文化部的真正的正義到底在哪裡我們現在看這個臺文館好了我不曉得臺文館裏面部長你知不知道有限制性招標的理由限制性招標我不知道你們把這個\n\n14\n00:04:39,696 --> 00:04:54,792\n目前來說有多少的舞弊這是我等下跟你討論的因為他陷入了這個抄襲的風波也是給抄襲的廠商每年都用限制性的一個招標請問部長你知不知道他們提出限制性招標的理由是什麼\n\n15\n00:04:55,433 --> 00:05:18,230\n通常在我們公家機關限制性招標它還是一個公開對外我懂啊這個都是在你們的採購法裡面完全可以同意但是你是基於什麼樣的理由是基於專業的服務基於技術服務資訊服務或社會服務這在你們的這個條文上面是基於哪一個部分你問得非常對所以這件事情基本上我們已經把這前7年的這個招標過程交給政風處處理\n\n16\n00:05:20,572 --> 00:05:24,615\n你們交給政府去處理了我什麼時候可以拿到這樣的一個報告資料因為你看他連證據也都是偽照的而且我最終要提出來這個廠商從2017年到現在已經37項政府的一個補助光是從這個總金額是從460到1400多得到7000多萬的補助台灣管就佔了1259萬所以說呢你這個高層有關台灣的管理高層你認為誰該負責\n\n17\n00:05:50,353 --> 00:05:50,373\n委員會議員\n\n18\n00:06:10,023 --> 00:06:23,144\n我是第一我第一個來到文化部就遇到這個問題這是等於送給我一個禮物啊因為文化部會發生這種抄襲事件對我來講非常痛心因為我們一直在強調我們台灣要有自己的IP\n\n19\n00:06:24,232 --> 00:06:34,497\n我們要自己的IP﹖這個IP包括剛剛我講到﹖電影也好﹖文學也好﹖動漫也好對﹖好﹖部長既然有政風粗﹖我們希望他最後給我們一個非常清楚的部分因為我今天要特別提到的是﹖不管是抄襲問題或是我剛剛所提到的這是限制性的問題﹖抄襲包括這個主視覺當然每個人都說要去跟這個所謂的法國藝術家來做一個致敬\n\n20\n00:06:45,862 --> 00:06:46,262\n你說哪一個我是說我們賴總統的這個就職典禮的這個視覺\n\n21\n00:07:05,964 --> 00:07:10,928\n總而言之這個東西現人見智所以他剛剛就已經特別提到當我們認為有抄襲的時候他馬上這個單位就馬上告訴我們我們是在跟藝術來做致敬這點是沒有辦法說服我們的我們回到我剛剛說的這個什麼限制性的招標目前\n\n22\n00:07:27,961 --> 00:07:34,425\n真的引起最大的爭議就是1624我不管他的內容我只管他的一個經費部長你可以從這個地方來你們說沒有完全排擠其他補助但是我還是要指出來你們文化部動用兩個項目一個就是有關表演藝術的輔助推動你們編列的3億多但是呢你光是補助這個劇你就占了文化部的四分之一然後呢你去有關於你們占用另外一部分是傳統藝術的推廣計劃\n\n23\n00:07:56,858 --> 00:07:57,278\nOK,好\n\n24\n00:08:14,673 --> 00:08:35,919\n我先回到這個戲齁這個戲我沒有看過部長你針對他的預算經費預算經費的限制性招票的這個部分來我還是要把這個部分據我了解這個案子是從傳譯中心直接來跟文化部申請那他所用的費用不如外面所講的那樣子說他排擠了其他的費用\n\n25\n00:08:36,779 --> 00:08:41,383\n這是一組戲兩天來燒掉八千六百萬你不覺得這樣的一個製作你剛還特別提到我們的資源的分配你把文化部可以的部分你卻花了兩八千六百萬裡面來去做這樣的一個處理我覺得你從人文文人的一個腳步來看你覺得藝術團體每個人都渴望得到一些很多的補助你覺得為這樣的一個音樂劇燒掉這麼多的錢部長你覺得從這第一眼來看你覺得合理嗎\n\n26\n00:09:01,598 --> 00:09:01,818\n李遠列席報告\n\n27\n00:09:19,693 --> 00:09:20,114\n李遠列席\n\n28\n00:09:40,737 --> 00:09:47,042\n部長你可以在最快的時間當中呢可不可以把這個1624所有的花費的項目如果這麼樣子覺得沒有排擠到不然上網公告然後呢三天之內提供評審委員的名單我覺得我們還是要在這個部分你們還是要對查清楚我們做得到所有的經費什麼花費然後整個過程如何\n\n29\n00:10:00,692 --> 00:10:04,554\n對你上網公布這些經費因為有太多人質疑這個部分然後有關於這個評審的審查的名單私下交給我來做這樣一個處理因為我們自己內部也對這件事情有點覺得被誤會很好啊就趕快來做一些澄清啊最重要是這個地方裡面有非常多的其他的文化團體是對這件事情是很有想法的\n\n30\n00:10:23,781 --> 00:10:36,435\n這都是你很關切的這些文化團體還是一句話當你經費有限的時候你應該做最好的一個分配而不是獨宗說這個很好你要是有這麼上百億的經費上百千萬的經費你要多做這個我沒有意見更何況兩天8600萬所以我本期強烈要求我需要把這個所有的細項全部可以告訴我一下\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n89\t429\t理事長李遠\n15066\t15346\t我對於你的這個業務報告我還是有點失望\n31727\t44653\t因為我看不到小野的理念不要忘記我是看你勇之聲長大的好不好所以我沒看到你的理念你幾乎就是把史哲的33頁改成濃縮成19頁當中像你最近提到你就說你要把華氏希望能夠用民股把它買回來而且你是最能夠對華氏的未來的轉型著力最多因為你曾經在那邊工作過可是我沒有在你的業務報告中看到任何的遺像我覺得這是\n56238\t61520\t可能我們認為是你剛上來所以說你就只能把現有的部分來做一些刪減這是我覺得比較可惜的地方而且呢我為什麼要特別提出來因為我很想看看你的想法過去的歷年來我們文化部被認為就是一個撒錢的大部所以說呢沒有看到太多令人耳目一新的文化的一個政策所以呢部長你會不會在被框架下面你會不會有覺得有有志男生的我希望不會有可是到目前為止你有嗎\n88638\t102763\t報告委員我從以前到現在我都沒有政黨屬性然後我不管去早期在中央電影公司國民黨的電影機構裡做了8年或者在科文社部部長你的講話快一點我問題很好\n106155\t108998\t最近大家最紅的就是我們的泰勒斯在新加坡他幾乎可以創造一週五億美元的一個收益\n126095\t148641\t那這不會只是一個單一的團體是整個新加坡請全政府之力來促成這樣的一件事情那目前來說台灣有一些的場地台灣有這樣子的一個經驗台北跟高雄都極力要來去做但這不是單一這個市政府就有辦法的所以說你認為新加坡用這個政府之力來做這件事情部長你要不要把泰德斯當作是你的工作項目\n150014\t160284\t我還沒想到請泰勒斯來因為他未來兩年當中有可能到台灣來所以說你現在沒有想到他我提醒你好不好你可以把它當作是一個很大的工作目標因為這沒有文化部涉入的話很難是有辦法來去把它達成的那接下來呢我們來看一下因為呢我們賴總統特別在鄭楠榮的紀念會上說他要洗滌每一個人的人心好了我們就來看看\n173516\t202308\t如何來洗滌我最近看到這一則新聞就是呢很多時候呢這個中正紀念塔大家認為是轉型正要來轉型所以呢就傳出文化部在研議要撤掉這裡面的三軍儀隊這是你在你擔任部長之前所傳流出來的我不曉得是不是上任的部長把這件工作交接給你呢還是你們這些一級主管在沒有經過你允許之下就在放出這樣的一個訊息不知道你可以做個澄清\n205560\t212527\t而且呢過去也曾經有提過這樣的一個案件是最近又提出來當時的國防部長認為撤掉不宜但是我們現在的國防部長已經換了人了已經換了顧立雄或許你可以內外來彼此配合這件事情會成行嗎其實中正經濟長對我來講齁\n224059\t241865\t我一直覺得民眾的休閒跟擴大他的休息更重要我覺得你對於威權的看法什麼樣代表威權那個同樣的存在是不是威權儀隊是不是代表威權我覺得見仁見智我很不喜歡那種形式的東西所以您剛剛講這個我沒有聽過\n242925\t257285\t很好,所以我也完全贊同不用把任何一個建築物賦予他太多意識形態的一個意義所以我只是提醒因為已經開始放出這樣一個部分所以目前為止不是你首要去做的一件工作就對了\n258507\t278415\t那接下來我們剛提到了為什麽我要特別提到因為大家都把尊人機場當作是轉型正義的一部分了那我們現在來看看這個文化部的真正的正義到底在哪裡我們現在看這個臺文館好了我不曉得臺文館裏面部長你知不知道有限制性招標的理由限制性招標我不知道你們把這個\n279696\t294792\t目前來說有多少的舞弊這是我等下跟你討論的因為他陷入了這個抄襲的風波也是給抄襲的廠商每年都用限制性的一個招標請問部長你知不知道他們提出限制性招標的理由是什麼\n295433\t318230\t通常在我們公家機關限制性招標它還是一個公開對外我懂啊 這個都是在你們的採購法裡面完全可以同意但是你是基於什麼樣的理由是基於專業的服務基於技術服務資訊服務或社會服務這在你們的這個條文上面是基於哪一個部分你問得非常對所以這件事情基本上我們已經把這前7年的這個招標過程交給政風處處理\n320572\t324615\t你們交給政府去處理了我什麼時候可以拿到這樣的一個報告資料因為你看他連證據也都是偽照的而且我最終要提出來這個廠商從2017年到現在已經37項政府的一個補助光是從這個總金額是從460到1400多得到7000多萬的補助台灣管就佔了1259萬所以說呢你這個高層有關台灣的管理高層你認為誰該負責\n350353\t350373\t委員會議員\n370023\t383144\t我是第一我第一個來到文化部就遇到這個問題這是等於送給我一個禮物啊因為文化部會發生這種抄襲事件對我來講非常痛心因為我們一直在強調我們台灣要有自己的IP\n384232\t394497\t我們要自己的IP﹖這個IP包括剛剛我講到﹖電影也好﹖文學也好﹖動漫也好對﹖好﹖部長既然有政風粗﹖我們希望他最後給我們一個非常清楚的部分因為我今天要特別提到的是﹖不管是抄襲問題或是我剛剛所提到的這是限制性的問題﹖抄襲包括這個主視覺當然每個人都說要去跟這個所謂的法國藝術家來做一個致敬\n405862\t406262\t你說哪一個我是說我們賴總統的這個就職典禮的這個視覺\n425964\t430928\t總而言之這個東西現人見智所以他剛剛就已經特別提到當我們認為有抄襲的時候他馬上這個單位就馬上告訴我們我們是在跟藝術來做致敬這點是沒有辦法說服我們的我們回到我剛剛說的這個什麼限制性的招標目前\n447961\t454425\t真的引起最大的爭議就是1624我不管他的內容我只管他的一個經費部長你可以從這個地方來你們說沒有完全排擠其他補助但是我還是要指出來你們文化部動用兩個項目一個就是有關表演藝術的輔助推動你們編列的3億多但是呢你光是補助這個劇你就占了文化部的四分之一然後呢你去有關於你們占用另外一部分是傳統藝術的推廣計劃\n476858\t477278\tOK,好\n494673\t515919\t我先回到這個戲齁 這個戲我沒有看過部長你針對他的預算經費預算經費的限制性招票的這個部分來我還是要把這個部分據我了解這個案子是從傳譯中心直接來跟文化部申請那他所用的費用不如外面所講的那樣子說他排擠了其他的費用\n516779\t521383\t這是一組戲兩天來燒掉八千六百萬你不覺得這樣的一個製作你剛還特別提到我們的資源的分配你把文化部可以的部分你卻花了兩八千六百萬裡面來去做這樣的一個處理我覺得你從人文文人的一個腳步來看你覺得藝術團體每個人都渴望得到一些很多的補助你覺得為這樣的一個音樂劇燒掉這麼多的錢部長你覺得從這第一眼來看你覺得合理嗎\n541598\t541818\t李遠列席報告\n559693\t560114\t李遠列席\n580737\t587042\t部長你可以在最快的時間當中呢可不可以把這個1624所有的花費的項目如果這麼樣子覺得沒有排擠到不然上網公告然後呢三天之內提供評審委員的名單我覺得我們還是要在這個部分你們還是要對查清楚我們做得到所有的經費什麼花費然後整個過程如何\n600692\t604554\t對你上網公布這些經費因為有太多人質疑這個部分然後有關於這個評審的審查的名單私下交給我來做這樣一個處理因為我們自己內部也對這件事情有點覺得被誤會很好啊就趕快來做一些澄清啊最重要是這個地方裡面有非常多的其他的文化團體是對這件事情是很有想法的\n623781\t636435\t這都是你很關切的這些文化團體還是一句話當你經費有限的時候你應該做最好的一個分配而不是獨宗說這個很好你要是有這麼上百億的經費上百千萬的經費你要多做這個我沒有意見更何況兩天8600萬所以我本期強烈要求我需要把這個所有的細項全部可以告訴我一下\n644224\t671630\t謝謝 謝謝\n","txt":"理事長李遠\n我對於你的這個業務報告我還是有點失望\n因為我看不到小野的理念不要忘記我是看你勇之聲長大的好不好所以我沒看到你的理念你幾乎就是把史哲的33頁改成濃縮成19頁當中像你最近提到你就說你要把華氏希望能夠用民股把它買回來而且你是最能夠對華氏的未來的轉型著力最多因為你曾經在那邊工作過可是我沒有在你的業務報告中看到任何的遺像我覺得這是\n可能我們認為是你剛上來所以說你就只能把現有的部分來做一些刪減這是我覺得比較可惜的地方而且呢我為什麼要特別提出來因為我很想看看你的想法過去的歷年來我們文化部被認為就是一個撒錢的大部所以說呢沒有看到太多令人耳目一新的文化的一個政策所以呢部長你會不會在被框架下面你會不會有覺得有有志男生的我希望不會有可是到目前為止你有嗎\n報告委員我從以前到現在我都沒有政黨屬性然後我不管去早期在中央電影公司國民黨的電影機構裡做了8年或者在科文社部部長你的講話快一點我問題很好\n最近大家最紅的就是我們的泰勒斯在新加坡他幾乎可以創造一週五億美元的一個收益\n那這不會只是一個單一的團體是整個新加坡請全政府之力來促成這樣的一件事情那目前來說台灣有一些的場地台灣有這樣子的一個經驗台北跟高雄都極力要來去做但這不是單一這個市政府就有辦法的所以說你認為新加坡用這個政府之力來做這件事情部長你要不要把泰德斯當作是你的工作項目\n我還沒想到請泰勒斯來因為他未來兩年當中有可能到台灣來所以說你現在沒有想到他我提醒你好不好你可以把它當作是一個很大的工作目標因為這沒有文化部涉入的話很難是有辦法來去把它達成的那接下來呢我們來看一下因為呢我們賴總統特別在鄭楠榮的紀念會上說他要洗滌每一個人的人心好了我們就來看看\n如何來洗滌我最近看到這一則新聞就是呢很多時候呢這個中正紀念塔大家認為是轉型正要來轉型所以呢就傳出文化部在研議要撤掉這裡面的三軍儀隊這是你在你擔任部長之前所傳流出來的我不曉得是不是上任的部長把這件工作交接給你呢還是你們這些一級主管在沒有經過你允許之下就在放出這樣的一個訊息不知道你可以做個澄清\n而且呢過去也曾經有提過這樣的一個案件是最近又提出來當時的國防部長認為撤掉不宜但是我們現在的國防部長已經換了人了已經換了顧立雄或許你可以內外來彼此配合這件事情會成行嗎其實中正經濟長對我來講齁\n我一直覺得民眾的休閒跟擴大他的休息更重要我覺得你對於威權的看法什麼樣代表威權那個同樣的存在是不是威權儀隊是不是代表威權我覺得見仁見智我很不喜歡那種形式的東西所以您剛剛講這個我沒有聽過\n很好,所以我也完全贊同不用把任何一個建築物賦予他太多意識形態的一個意義所以我只是提醒因為已經開始放出這樣一個部分所以目前為止不是你首要去做的一件工作就對了\n那接下來我們剛提到了為什麽我要特別提到因為大家都把尊人機場當作是轉型正義的一部分了那我們現在來看看這個文化部的真正的正義到底在哪裡我們現在看這個臺文館好了我不曉得臺文館裏面部長你知不知道有限制性招標的理由限制性招標我不知道你們把這個\n目前來說有多少的舞弊這是我等下跟你討論的因為他陷入了這個抄襲的風波也是給抄襲的廠商每年都用限制性的一個招標請問部長你知不知道他們提出限制性招標的理由是什麼\n通常在我們公家機關限制性招標它還是一個公開對外我懂啊 這個都是在你們的採購法裡面完全可以同意但是你是基於什麼樣的理由是基於專業的服務基於技術服務資訊服務或社會服務這在你們的這個條文上面是基於哪一個部分你問得非常對所以這件事情基本上我們已經把這前7年的這個招標過程交給政風處處理\n你們交給政府去處理了我什麼時候可以拿到這樣的一個報告資料因為你看他連證據也都是偽照的而且我最終要提出來這個廠商從2017年到現在已經37項政府的一個補助光是從這個總金額是從460到1400多得到7000多萬的補助台灣管就佔了1259萬所以說呢你這個高層有關台灣的管理高層你認為誰該負責\n委員會議員\n我是第一我第一個來到文化部就遇到這個問題這是等於送給我一個禮物啊因為文化部會發生這種抄襲事件對我來講非常痛心因為我們一直在強調我們台灣要有自己的IP\n我們要自己的IP﹖這個IP包括剛剛我講到﹖電影也好﹖文學也好﹖動漫也好對﹖好﹖部長既然有政風粗﹖我們希望他最後給我們一個非常清楚的部分因為我今天要特別提到的是﹖不管是抄襲問題或是我剛剛所提到的這是限制性的問題﹖抄襲包括這個主視覺當然每個人都說要去跟這個所謂的法國藝術家來做一個致敬\n你說哪一個我是說我們賴總統的這個就職典禮的這個視覺\n總而言之這個東西現人見智所以他剛剛就已經特別提到當我們認為有抄襲的時候他馬上這個單位就馬上告訴我們我們是在跟藝術來做致敬這點是沒有辦法說服我們的我們回到我剛剛說的這個什麼限制性的招標目前\n真的引起最大的爭議就是1624我不管他的內容我只管他的一個經費部長你可以從這個地方來你們說沒有完全排擠其他補助但是我還是要指出來你們文化部動用兩個項目一個就是有關表演藝術的輔助推動你們編列的3億多但是呢你光是補助這個劇你就占了文化部的四分之一然後呢你去有關於你們占用另外一部分是傳統藝術的推廣計劃\nOK,好\n我先回到這個戲齁 這個戲我沒有看過部長你針對他的預算經費預算經費的限制性招票的這個部分來我還是要把這個部分據我了解這個案子是從傳譯中心直接來跟文化部申請那他所用的費用不如外面所講的那樣子說他排擠了其他的費用\n這是一組戲兩天來燒掉八千六百萬你不覺得這樣的一個製作你剛還特別提到我們的資源的分配你把文化部可以的部分你卻花了兩八千六百萬裡面來去做這樣的一個處理我覺得你從人文文人的一個腳步來看你覺得藝術團體每個人都渴望得到一些很多的補助你覺得為這樣的一個音樂劇燒掉這麼多的錢部長你覺得從這第一眼來看你覺得合理嗎\n李遠列席報告\n李遠列席\n部長你可以在最快的時間當中呢可不可以把這個1624所有的花費的項目如果這麼樣子覺得沒有排擠到不然上網公告然後呢三天之內提供評審委員的名單我覺得我們還是要在這個部分你們還是要對查清楚我們做得到所有的經費什麼花費然後整個過程如何\n對你上網公布這些經費因為有太多人質疑這個部分然後有關於這個評審的審查的名單私下交給我來做這樣一個處理因為我們自己內部也對這件事情有點覺得被誤會很好啊就趕快來做一些澄清啊最重要是這個地方裡面有非常多的其他的文化團體是對這件事情是很有想法的\n這都是你很關切的這些文化團體還是一句話當你經費有限的時候你應該做最好的一個分配而不是獨宗說這個很好你要是有這麼上百億的經費上百千萬的經費你要多做這個我沒有意見更何況兩天8600萬所以我本期強烈要求我需要把這個所有的細項全部可以告訴我一下\n謝謝 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.089 --> 00:00.429\n理事長李遠\n\n00:15.066 --> 00:15.346\n我對於你的這個業務報告我還是有點失望\n\n00:31.727 --> 00:44.653\n因為我看不到小野的理念不要忘記我是看你勇之聲長大的好不好所以我沒看到你的理念你幾乎就是把史哲的33頁改成濃縮成19頁當中像你最近提到你就說你要把華氏希望能夠用民股把它買回來而且你是最能夠對華氏的未來的轉型著力最多因為你曾經在那邊工作過可是我沒有在你的業務報告中看到任何的遺像我覺得這是\n\n00:56.238 --> 01:01.520\n可能我們認為是你剛上來所以說你就只能把現有的部分來做一些刪減這是我覺得比較可惜的地方而且呢我為什麼要特別提出來因為我很想看看你的想法過去的歷年來我們文化部被認為就是一個撒錢的大部所以說呢沒有看到太多令人耳目一新的文化的一個政策所以呢部長你會不會在被框架下面你會不會有覺得有有志男生的我希望不會有可是到目前為止你有嗎\n\n01:28.638 --> 01:42.763\n報告委員我從以前到現在我都沒有政黨屬性然後我不管去早期在中央電影公司國民黨的電影機構裡做了8年或者在科文社部部長你的講話快一點我問題很好\n\n01:46.155 --> 01:48.998\n最近大家最紅的就是我們的泰勒斯在新加坡他幾乎可以創造一週五億美元的一個收益\n\n02:06.095 --> 02:28.641\n那這不會只是一個單一的團體是整個新加坡請全政府之力來促成這樣的一件事情那目前來說台灣有一些的場地台灣有這樣子的一個經驗台北跟高雄都極力要來去做但這不是單一這個市政府就有辦法的所以說你認為新加坡用這個政府之力來做這件事情部長你要不要把泰德斯當作是你的工作項目\n\n02:30.014 --> 02:40.284\n我還沒想到請泰勒斯來因為他未來兩年當中有可能到台灣來所以說你現在沒有想到他我提醒你好不好你可以把它當作是一個很大的工作目標因為這沒有文化部涉入的話很難是有辦法來去把它達成的那接下來呢我們來看一下因為呢我們賴總統特別在鄭楠榮的紀念會上說他要洗滌每一個人的人心好了我們就來看看\n\n02:53.516 --> 03:22.308\n如何來洗滌我最近看到這一則新聞就是呢很多時候呢這個中正紀念塔大家認為是轉型正要來轉型所以呢就傳出文化部在研議要撤掉這裡面的三軍儀隊這是你在你擔任部長之前所傳流出來的我不曉得是不是上任的部長把這件工作交接給你呢還是你們這些一級主管在沒有經過你允許之下就在放出這樣的一個訊息不知道你可以做個澄清\n\n03:25.560 --> 03:32.527\n而且呢過去也曾經有提過這樣的一個案件是最近又提出來當時的國防部長認為撤掉不宜但是我們現在的國防部長已經換了人了已經換了顧立雄或許你可以內外來彼此配合這件事情會成行嗎其實中正經濟長對我來講齁\n\n03:44.059 --> 04:01.865\n我一直覺得民眾的休閒跟擴大他的休息更重要我覺得你對於威權的看法什麼樣代表威權那個同樣的存在是不是威權儀隊是不是代表威權我覺得見仁見智我很不喜歡那種形式的東西所以您剛剛講這個我沒有聽過\n\n04:02.925 --> 04:17.285\n很好,所以我也完全贊同不用把任何一個建築物賦予他太多意識形態的一個意義所以我只是提醒因為已經開始放出這樣一個部分所以目前為止不是你首要去做的一件工作就對了\n\n04:18.507 --> 04:38.415\n那接下來我們剛提到了為什麽我要特別提到因為大家都把尊人機場當作是轉型正義的一部分了那我們現在來看看這個文化部的真正的正義到底在哪裡我們現在看這個臺文館好了我不曉得臺文館裏面部長你知不知道有限制性招標的理由限制性招標我不知道你們把這個\n\n04:39.696 --> 04:54.792\n目前來說有多少的舞弊這是我等下跟你討論的因為他陷入了這個抄襲的風波也是給抄襲的廠商每年都用限制性的一個招標請問部長你知不知道他們提出限制性招標的理由是什麼\n\n04:55.433 --> 05:18.230\n通常在我們公家機關限制性招標它還是一個公開對外我懂啊這個都是在你們的採購法裡面完全可以同意但是你是基於什麼樣的理由是基於專業的服務基於技術服務資訊服務或社會服務這在你們的這個條文上面是基於哪一個部分你問得非常對所以這件事情基本上我們已經把這前7年的這個招標過程交給政風處處理\n\n05:20.572 --> 05:24.615\n你們交給政府去處理了我什麼時候可以拿到這樣的一個報告資料因為你看他連證據也都是偽照的而且我最終要提出來這個廠商從2017年到現在已經37項政府的一個補助光是從這個總金額是從460到1400多得到7000多萬的補助台灣管就佔了1259萬所以說呢你這個高層有關台灣的管理高層你認為誰該負責\n\n05:50.353 --> 05:50.373\n委員會議員\n\n06:10.023 --> 06:23.144\n我是第一我第一個來到文化部就遇到這個問題這是等於送給我一個禮物啊因為文化部會發生這種抄襲事件對我來講非常痛心因為我們一直在強調我們台灣要有自己的IP\n\n06:24.232 --> 06:34.497\n我們要自己的IP﹖這個IP包括剛剛我講到﹖電影也好﹖文學也好﹖動漫也好對﹖好﹖部長既然有政風粗﹖我們希望他最後給我們一個非常清楚的部分因為我今天要特別提到的是﹖不管是抄襲問題或是我剛剛所提到的這是限制性的問題﹖抄襲包括這個主視覺當然每個人都說要去跟這個所謂的法國藝術家來做一個致敬\n\n06:45.862 --> 06:46.262\n你說哪一個我是說我們賴總統的這個就職典禮的這個視覺\n\n07:05.964 --> 07:10.928\n總而言之這個東西現人見智所以他剛剛就已經特別提到當我們認為有抄襲的時候他馬上這個單位就馬上告訴我們我們是在跟藝術來做致敬這點是沒有辦法說服我們的我們回到我剛剛說的這個什麼限制性的招標目前\n\n07:27.961 --> 07:34.425\n真的引起最大的爭議就是1624我不管他的內容我只管他的一個經費部長你可以從這個地方來你們說沒有完全排擠其他補助但是我還是要指出來你們文化部動用兩個項目一個就是有關表演藝術的輔助推動你們編列的3億多但是呢你光是補助這個劇你就占了文化部的四分之一然後呢你去有關於你們占用另外一部分是傳統藝術的推廣計劃\n\n07:56.858 --> 07:57.278\nOK,好\n\n08:14.673 --> 08:35.919\n我先回到這個戲齁這個戲我沒有看過部長你針對他的預算經費預算經費的限制性招票的這個部分來我還是要把這個部分據我了解這個案子是從傳譯中心直接來跟文化部申請那他所用的費用不如外面所講的那樣子說他排擠了其他的費用\n\n08:36.779 --> 08:41.383\n這是一組戲兩天來燒掉八千六百萬你不覺得這樣的一個製作你剛還特別提到我們的資源的分配你把文化部可以的部分你卻花了兩八千六百萬裡面來去做這樣的一個處理我覺得你從人文文人的一個腳步來看你覺得藝術團體每個人都渴望得到一些很多的補助你覺得為這樣的一個音樂劇燒掉這麼多的錢部長你覺得從這第一眼來看你覺得合理嗎\n\n09:01.598 --> 09:01.818\n李遠列席報告\n\n09:19.693 --> 09:20.114\n李遠列席\n\n09:40.737 --> 09:47.042\n部長你可以在最快的時間當中呢可不可以把這個1624所有的花費的項目如果這麼樣子覺得沒有排擠到不然上網公告然後呢三天之內提供評審委員的名單我覺得我們還是要在這個部分你們還是要對查清楚我們做得到所有的經費什麼花費然後整個過程如何\n\n10:00.692 --> 10:04.554\n對你上網公布這些經費因為有太多人質疑這個部分然後有關於這個評審的審查的名單私下交給我來做這樣一個處理因為我們自己內部也對這件事情有點覺得被誤會很好啊就趕快來做一些澄清啊最重要是這個地方裡面有非常多的其他的文化團體是對這件事情是很有想法的\n\n10:23.781 --> 10:36.435\n這都是你很關切的這些文化團體還是一句話當你經費有限的時候你應該做最好的一個分配而不是獨宗說這個很好你要是有這麼上百億的經費上百千萬的經費你要多做這個我沒有意見更何況兩天8600萬所以我本期強烈要求我需要把這個所有的細項全部可以告訴我一下\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.089,"end":0.429,"text":"理事長李遠"},{"start":15.066,"end":15.346,"text":"我對於你的這個業務報告我還是有點失望"},{"start":31.727,"end":44.653,"text":"因為我看不到小野的理念不要忘記我是看你勇之聲長大的好不好所以我沒看到你的理念你幾乎就是把史哲的33頁改成濃縮成19頁當中像你最近提到你就說你要把華氏希望能夠用民股把它買回來而且你是最能夠對華氏的未來的轉型著力最多因為你曾經在那邊工作過可是我沒有在你的業務報告中看到任何的遺像我覺得這是"},{"start":56.238,"end":61.52,"text":"可能我們認為是你剛上來所以說你就只能把現有的部分來做一些刪減這是我覺得比較可惜的地方而且呢我為什麼要特別提出來因為我很想看看你的想法過去的歷年來我們文化部被認為就是一個撒錢的大部所以說呢沒有看到太多令人耳目一新的文化的一個政策所以呢部長你會不會在被框架下面你會不會有覺得有有志男生的我希望不會有可是到目前為止你有嗎"},{"start":88.638,"end":102.763,"text":"報告委員我從以前到現在我都沒有政黨屬性然後我不管去早期在中央電影公司國民黨的電影機構裡做了8年或者在科文社部部長你的講話快一點我問題很好"},{"start":106.155,"end":108.998,"text":"最近大家最紅的就是我們的泰勒斯在新加坡他幾乎可以創造一週五億美元的一個收益"},{"start":126.095,"end":148.641,"text":"那這不會只是一個單一的團體是整個新加坡請全政府之力來促成這樣的一件事情那目前來說台灣有一些的場地台灣有這樣子的一個經驗台北跟高雄都極力要來去做但這不是單一這個市政府就有辦法的所以說你認為新加坡用這個政府之力來做這件事情部長你要不要把泰德斯當作是你的工作項目"},{"start":150.014,"end":160.284,"text":"我還沒想到請泰勒斯來因為他未來兩年當中有可能到台灣來所以說你現在沒有想到他我提醒你好不好你可以把它當作是一個很大的工作目標因為這沒有文化部涉入的話很難是有辦法來去把它達成的那接下來呢我們來看一下因為呢我們賴總統特別在鄭楠榮的紀念會上說他要洗滌每一個人的人心好了我們就來看看"},{"start":173.516,"end":202.308,"text":"如何來洗滌我最近看到這一則新聞就是呢很多時候呢這個中正紀念塔大家認為是轉型正要來轉型所以呢就傳出文化部在研議要撤掉這裡面的三軍儀隊這是你在你擔任部長之前所傳流出來的我不曉得是不是上任的部長把這件工作交接給你呢還是你們這些一級主管在沒有經過你允許之下就在放出這樣的一個訊息不知道你可以做個澄清"},{"start":205.56,"end":212.527,"text":"而且呢過去也曾經有提過這樣的一個案件是最近又提出來當時的國防部長認為撤掉不宜但是我們現在的國防部長已經換了人了已經換了顧立雄或許你可以內外來彼此配合這件事情會成行嗎其實中正經濟長對我來講齁"},{"start":224.059,"end":241.865,"text":"我一直覺得民眾的休閒跟擴大他的休息更重要我覺得你對於威權的看法什麼樣代表威權那個同樣的存在是不是威權儀隊是不是代表威權我覺得見仁見智我很不喜歡那種形式的東西所以您剛剛講這個我沒有聽過"},{"start":242.925,"end":257.285,"text":"很好,所以我也完全贊同不用把任何一個建築物賦予他太多意識形態的一個意義所以我只是提醒因為已經開始放出這樣一個部分所以目前為止不是你首要去做的一件工作就對了"},{"start":258.507,"end":278.415,"text":"那接下來我們剛提到了為什麽我要特別提到因為大家都把尊人機場當作是轉型正義的一部分了那我們現在來看看這個文化部的真正的正義到底在哪裡我們現在看這個臺文館好了我不曉得臺文館裏面部長你知不知道有限制性招標的理由限制性招標我不知道你們把這個"},{"start":279.696,"end":294.792,"text":"目前來說有多少的舞弊這是我等下跟你討論的因為他陷入了這個抄襲的風波也是給抄襲的廠商每年都用限制性的一個招標請問部長你知不知道他們提出限制性招標的理由是什麼"},{"start":295.433,"end":318.23,"text":"通常在我們公家機關限制性招標它還是一個公開對外我懂啊 這個都是在你們的採購法裡面完全可以同意但是你是基於什麼樣的理由是基於專業的服務基於技術服務資訊服務或社會服務這在你們的這個條文上面是基於哪一個部分你問得非常對所以這件事情基本上我們已經把這前7年的這個招標過程交給政風處處理"},{"start":320.572,"end":324.615,"text":"你們交給政府去處理了我什麼時候可以拿到這樣的一個報告資料因為你看他連證據也都是偽照的而且我最終要提出來這個廠商從2017年到現在已經37項政府的一個補助光是從這個總金額是從460到1400多得到7000多萬的補助台灣管就佔了1259萬所以說呢你這個高層有關台灣的管理高層你認為誰該負責"},{"start":350.353,"end":350.373,"text":"委員會議員"},{"start":370.023,"end":383.144,"text":"我是第一我第一個來到文化部就遇到這個問題這是等於送給我一個禮物啊因為文化部會發生這種抄襲事件對我來講非常痛心因為我們一直在強調我們台灣要有自己的IP"},{"start":384.232,"end":394.497,"text":"我們要自己的IP﹖這個IP包括剛剛我講到﹖電影也好﹖文學也好﹖動漫也好對﹖好﹖部長既然有政風粗﹖我們希望他最後給我們一個非常清楚的部分因為我今天要特別提到的是﹖不管是抄襲問題或是我剛剛所提到的這是限制性的問題﹖抄襲包括這個主視覺當然每個人都說要去跟這個所謂的法國藝術家來做一個致敬"},{"start":405.862,"end":406.262,"text":"你說哪一個我是說我們賴總統的這個就職典禮的這個視覺"},{"start":425.964,"end":430.928,"text":"總而言之這個東西現人見智所以他剛剛就已經特別提到當我們認為有抄襲的時候他馬上這個單位就馬上告訴我們我們是在跟藝術來做致敬這點是沒有辦法說服我們的我們回到我剛剛說的這個什麼限制性的招標目前"},{"start":447.961,"end":454.425,"text":"真的引起最大的爭議就是1624我不管他的內容我只管他的一個經費部長你可以從這個地方來你們說沒有完全排擠其他補助但是我還是要指出來你們文化部動用兩個項目一個就是有關表演藝術的輔助推動你們編列的3億多但是呢你光是補助這個劇你就占了文化部的四分之一然後呢你去有關於你們占用另外一部分是傳統藝術的推廣計劃"},{"start":476.858,"end":477.278,"text":"OK,好"},{"start":494.673,"end":515.919,"text":"我先回到這個戲齁 這個戲我沒有看過部長你針對他的預算經費預算經費的限制性招票的這個部分來我還是要把這個部分據我了解這個案子是從傳譯中心直接來跟文化部申請那他所用的費用不如外面所講的那樣子說他排擠了其他的費用"},{"start":516.779,"end":521.383,"text":"這是一組戲兩天來燒掉八千六百萬你不覺得這樣的一個製作你剛還特別提到我們的資源的分配你把文化部可以的部分你卻花了兩八千六百萬裡面來去做這樣的一個處理我覺得你從人文文人的一個腳步來看你覺得藝術團體每個人都渴望得到一些很多的補助你覺得為這樣的一個音樂劇燒掉這麼多的錢部長你覺得從這第一眼來看你覺得合理嗎"},{"start":541.598,"end":541.818,"text":"李遠列席報告"},{"start":559.693,"end":560.114,"text":"李遠列席"},{"start":580.737,"end":587.042,"text":"部長你可以在最快的時間當中呢可不可以把這個1624所有的花費的項目如果這麼樣子覺得沒有排擠到不然上網公告然後呢三天之內提供評審委員的名單我覺得我們還是要在這個部分你們還是要對查清楚我們做得到所有的經費什麼花費然後整個過程如何"},{"start":600.692,"end":604.554,"text":"對你上網公布這些經費因為有太多人質疑這個部分然後有關於這個評審的審查的名單私下交給我來做這樣一個處理因為我們自己內部也對這件事情有點覺得被誤會很好啊就趕快來做一些澄清啊最重要是這個地方裡面有非常多的其他的文化團體是對這件事情是很有想法的"},{"start":623.781,"end":636.435,"text":"這都是你很關切的這些文化團體還是一句話當你經費有限的時候你應該做最好的一個分配而不是獨宗說這個很好你要是有這麼上百億的經費上百千萬的經費你要多做這個我沒有意見更何況兩天8600萬所以我本期強烈要求我需要把這個所有的細項全部可以告訴我一下"},{"start":644.224,"end":671.63,"text":"謝謝 謝謝"}]}}}}