{"id":152772,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152772","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ec526bb9f1bdce9d9d5df08b342b24ff3a3b62c5cf6e8dc13b43bbf2d64d2017a50e264968218f985ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"呂玉玲","委員發言時間":"10:21:02 - 10:27:56","影片長度":"00:06:54","會議時間":"2024-05-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、社會福利及衛生環境、教育及文化三委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查：\n一、本院委員羅美玲等20人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十四條條文修正草案」案。\n二、本院委員王定宇等16人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法增訂第二十一條之一條文草案」案。\n三、本院委員邱志偉等20人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十二條條文修正草案」案。\n四、本院委員邱議瑩等19人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(第四案如經復議，則不予審查）。）","date":"2024-05-22","duration":414,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、社會福利及衛生環境、教育及文化三委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[19,26,22],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-19,26,22-1"},"end_time":"2024-05-22T10:27:56+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-22T10:21:02+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":491,"blocks":[["呂委員玉玲：（10時21分）謝謝主席，請高副主委。"],["主席：請高副主委。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：委員早。"],["呂委員玉玲：副主委，本席在這邊想先就教你，請問國發會的主責業務當中，哪一項是刻不容緩，是關乎我們國家的未來跟經濟前景的當務之急，必須要有對策，要先來解決的？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：就我們國發會的職掌，而且衡酌現在國內、臺灣的經濟發展狀況，我覺得產業跟人力這兩個應該是最重要的。"],["呂委員玉玲：是，產業跟人力、產業跟經濟等各方面都很重要，但是最重要的、最根本的就是少子化，所以本席必須先就少子化議題來跟你討論，因為我們看到現在整個臺灣的生育率，在2023年是全世界倒數第一，這個就關乎到我們，且整個影響所及是多方面、多元的，尤其是在教育方面，私立學校在招生不足的情況之下，就會有倒閉的問題。在勞動力方面，我們青壯年就業的勞動力減少，產業缺工的情形就會造成我們整個產業，甚至國家都會發生整個空窗經濟受限的問題。還有我們的財政問題，因為我們整個人口結構是倒金字塔型人口結構，所以我們的健保跟勞保在收入減少的情況之下，整個虧損的漏洞就會越來越大。尤其是在國防方面，青壯年人口的減少也會導致義務役跟志願役的招收非常困難，影響我們整個軍隊的運作及戰備的準備。","副主委，關於少子化的情形，整個社會歸咎其原因是出於高房價、高物價跟高工時、薪水低，還有育兒成本提高的問題，這些問題都是環環相扣的。副主委，少子化的問題在這方面是整個國家發展最根本的問題，所以請教你有什麼想法跟策略可以減緩少子化的危機？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：我想剛剛委員其實已經點出了我們要解決少子化問題的一些相關對策啦，目前我們有少子女化的對策計畫，其實每年已經編到大概1,292億元啦，這邊主要是用在減輕年輕人育兒負擔的這個構面，你剛才其實也有提到高房價、低薪及一些相關的課題也是會影響到年輕人……"],["呂委員玉玲：你只有編列預算，根本沒有辦法解決根本的問題。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：所以我們持續在滾動檢討。"],["呂委員玉玲：是要滾動檢討沒有錯啊，可是你們滾動了這麼多年，我看你的解決方案都沒有出來，尤其是我們看到2022年增加的人口是15萬，但是在你們整個所做出來的報表裡面，2022年到2070年的人口數推估報告裡面有特別提到2023年的低估值，這個推估是分成高、中、低，低估值是在14萬，但是2023年我們的出生人口數只有13萬，所以你們只會寫報告，你是怎麼去評估這個低估值的？你怎麼評估的？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：基本上的確啦，2023年我們實際的出生率遠較我們想像的低推估值……"],["呂委員玉玲：所以你怎麼去評估的？你整個計畫沒有一個策略去應對、解決少子化的危機啊！你連這個低估值都沒有辦法掌控到，實際數還低於你的低估值，這個是非常大的問題，所以本席為什麼從少子化這邊先跟你就教與討論，因為這是最重要的根本問題，人才也是最重要的，但少子化會造成整個國家經濟發展的問題。尤其今天我們要討論的是外國專業人才延攬跟僱用的問題，最重要的就是要放寬僑生在畢業之後可以申請永久居留資格，但是我們看到國發會在2018年就開始在推動讓外國人士可以申請「工作許可」、「居留簽證」、「外僑居留證」及「重入國許可」四合一的就業金卡。副主委，就業金卡你們執行了6年，執行的成績是如何？到現在6年的時間，你們只發放了9,664張，你還喊出2030年要延攬7萬名的國際專業人士，你有這個信心嗎？你做得到嗎？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：跟委員報告，我們設定這7萬個國際專業人才是包括特專跟一般專業人才，就業金卡是屬於特專那一塊，我們目前的國際專業人才含就業金卡的部分大概是1萬4,000人。"],["呂委員玉玲：那你的7萬人呢？就業金卡實施這麼久了，是沒有功效嗎？很困難嗎？這個已經放寬了！"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是。"],["呂委員玉玲：我剛剛提到就業金卡是四項合一的，就是要給你們去延攬人才進來，都有在規範裡面，但是你們還是沒有辦法！"],["高副主任委員仙桂：這1萬4,000個特定專業人才裡面，因為我們有設定減稅等相關的規定，所以我們設定的是有某些高標準……"],["呂委員玉玲：我現在跟你講的是就業金卡部分。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：一樣。"],["呂委員玉玲：這也是延攬人才啊，對不對？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是，就業金卡也是一樣。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以你們7萬人的目標，做得到嗎？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：我們7萬人……"],["呂委員玉玲：你既然喊出來了，不要只會做報告、只會寫報告而已，根本就達不到標準！"],["高副主任委員仙桂：我們有信心可以達到。"],["呂委員玉玲：有信心？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：對。"],["呂委員玉玲：2030年要達到？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：因為它涵蓋特定專業人才跟一般專業人才，我們特定專業人才現在已經到1萬4,000人了。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以本席在這邊也要請副主委，還是要針對問題的根本，你們就應該要跨部會去統籌來建立合作的機制，讓我們整個目標更加地明確，來增加生育率的問題，讓我們國人能夠有生養的意願，更願意生養，這才能解決人才的根本問題，好不好？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是，謝謝委員指正，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝呂玉玲委員。","接下來請陳菁徽委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":76,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-19,26,22-1","speakers":["邱議瑩","王定宇","羅美玲","陳亭妃","林岱樺","邱志偉","楊瓊瓔","萬美玲","賴瑞隆","鄭天財Sra 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{\"word\": \"願\"}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 384.347, \"end\": 384.467, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 384.467, \"end\": 384.487, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"養\"}, {\"word\": \"陳\"}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 404.381, \"end\": 404.481, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"輝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 404.481, \"end\": 404.501, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,851 --> 00:00:11,114\n謝謝主席請高副主委來請高副主委\n\n2\n00:00:17,179 --> 00:00:23,588\n委員長副支委本席在這邊想先就教您請問說國發會在主責業務當中哪一項是刻不容緩在關乎我們國家的未來跟經濟前景是當務之急必須要有對策先來解決的\n\n3\n00:00:33,764 --> 00:00:34,765\n韓國發會執掌和橫卓在台灣的經濟發展狀況中,產業和能力應該是最重要的。\n\n4\n00:01:17,594 --> 00:01:17,734\n則不予審查：呂玲\n\n5\n00:02:07,199 --> 00:02:07,479\n則不予審查：呂玲\n\n6\n00:02:52,955 --> 00:02:53,175\n蘇珊妮娜\n\n7\n00:03:12,386 --> 00:03:12,426\n蘇玉玲議員\n\n8\n00:03:36,599 --> 00:03:49,891\n﹗高中低估值是在14萬但是我們在2023年我們人口數只有13萬所以你這個只會寫報告你這個怎麼去評估這個低估值的你怎麼評估的\n\n9\n00:03:51,793 --> 00:03:51,974\n蘇玉玲議員\n\n10\n00:04:54,380 --> 00:05:03,725\n副主委就位金卡你們執行的6年執行的成績是如何?你現在只有6年的時間你只有發放9664張那你還喊出來說2030年你要延攬7萬名的國際專業人士你有這個信心嗎?你做得到嗎?\n\n11\n00:05:13,191 --> 00:05:40,210\n好那跟委員報告說我們設定的7萬的國際專業人才是包括特專跟一般專業人才那目前呢大概就是就業金卡是屬於特專那一塊那我們目前的國際專業人才大概是14000專業人才14000人含就業金卡含就業金卡那你的7萬人就業金卡實施這麼久了是沒有功效嗎很困難嗎\n\n12\n00:05:43,480 --> 00:06:08,841\n你這已經放寬了,我剛才提到就業金卡裡面就有四項合一的,就是給你們去延攬進來,都有在規範裡面,但是你們還是沒有辦法。因為我們就是一萬四千的特定專業人才裡面,我們是因為我們有設定減稅等相關的規定,所以我們設定的是…我現在跟你講就業金卡部分,這也是延攬人才啊,對不對?所以你的七萬人你做得到嗎?\n\n13\n00:06:10,323 --> 00:06:15,975\n你居然喊出來了不要說只會做報告只會寫報告而已根本就達不到標準啊\n\n14\n00:06:16,721 --> 00:06:24,487\n我們有信心可以達到2030年要達到所以本席在這邊也要請副主委還是對問題的根本你們就應該要跨部會去統籌來做合作的機制讓我們整個目標要更加的明確來增加生育率的問題讓我們國人能夠有生養的問題的意願更願意生養\n\n15\n00:06:44,381 --> 00:06:44,501\n陳金輝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8851\t11114\t謝謝主席請高副主委來請高副主委\n17179\t23588\t委員長副支委本席在這邊想先就教您請問說國發會在主責業務當中哪一項是刻不容緩在關乎我們國家的未來跟經濟前景是當務之急必須要有對策先來解決的\n33764\t34765\t韓國發會執掌和橫卓在台灣的經濟發展狀況中,產業和能力應該是最重要的。\n54462\t77534\t響鐘響鐘\n77594\t77734\t則不予審查：呂玲\n99735\t127159\t﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏\n127199\t127479\t則不予審查：呂玲\n150538\t172875\t響鐘響鐘\n172955\t173175\t蘇珊妮娜\n192386\t192426\t蘇玉玲議員\n216599\t229891\t﹗高中低估值是在14萬但是我們在2023年我們人口數只有13萬所以你這個只會寫報告你這個怎麼去評估這個低估值的你怎麼評估的\n231793\t231974\t蘇玉玲議員\n249514\t269684\t﹗﹗﹗\n269684\t293541\t﹏﹏\n294380\t303725\t副主委就位金卡你們執行的6年執行的成績是如何?你現在只有6年的時間你只有發放9664張那你還喊出來說2030年你要延攬7萬名的國際專業人士你有這個信心嗎?你做得到嗎?\n313191\t340210\t好 那跟委員報告說我們設定的7萬的國際專業人才是包括特專跟一般專業人才那目前呢大概就是就業金卡是屬於特專那一塊那我們目前的國際專業人才大概是14000專業人才14000人含就業金卡含就業金卡 那你的7萬人就業金卡實施這麼久了是沒有功效嗎 很困難嗎\n343480\t368841\t你這已經放寬了,我剛才提到就業金卡裡面就有四項合一的,就是給你們去延攬進來,都有在規範裡面,但是你們還是沒有辦法。因為我們就是一萬四千的特定專業人才裡面,我們是因為我們有設定減稅等相關的規定,所以我們設定的是…我現在跟你講就業金卡部分,這也是延攬人才啊,對不對?所以你的七萬人你做得到嗎?\n370323\t375975\t你居然喊出來了不要說只會做報告只會寫報告而已根本就達不到標準啊\n376721\t384487\t我們有信心可以達到2030年要達到所以本席在這邊也要請副主委還是對問題的根本你們就應該要跨部會去統籌來做合作的機制讓我們整個目標要更加的明確來增加生育率的問題讓我們國人能夠有生養的問題的意願更願意生養\n404381\t404501\t陳金輝委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席請高副主委來請高副主委\n委員長副支委本席在這邊想先就教您請問說國發會在主責業務當中哪一項是刻不容緩在關乎我們國家的未來跟經濟前景是當務之急必須要有對策先來解決的\n韓國發會執掌和橫卓在台灣的經濟發展狀況中,產業和能力應該是最重要的。\n響鐘響鐘\n則不予審查：呂玲\n﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏\n則不予審查：呂玲\n響鐘響鐘\n蘇珊妮娜\n蘇玉玲議員\n﹗高中低估值是在14萬但是我們在2023年我們人口數只有13萬所以你這個只會寫報告你這個怎麼去評估這個低估值的你怎麼評估的\n蘇玉玲議員\n﹗﹗﹗\n﹏﹏\n副主委就位金卡你們執行的6年執行的成績是如何?你現在只有6年的時間你只有發放9664張那你還喊出來說2030年你要延攬7萬名的國際專業人士你有這個信心嗎?你做得到嗎?\n好 那跟委員報告說我們設定的7萬的國際專業人才是包括特專跟一般專業人才那目前呢大概就是就業金卡是屬於特專那一塊那我們目前的國際專業人才大概是14000專業人才14000人含就業金卡含就業金卡 那你的7萬人就業金卡實施這麼久了是沒有功效嗎 很困難嗎\n你這已經放寬了,我剛才提到就業金卡裡面就有四項合一的,就是給你們去延攬進來,都有在規範裡面,但是你們還是沒有辦法。因為我們就是一萬四千的特定專業人才裡面,我們是因為我們有設定減稅等相關的規定,所以我們設定的是…我現在跟你講就業金卡部分,這也是延攬人才啊,對不對?所以你的七萬人你做得到嗎?\n你居然喊出來了不要說只會做報告只會寫報告而已根本就達不到標準啊\n我們有信心可以達到2030年要達到所以本席在這邊也要請副主委還是對問題的根本你們就應該要跨部會去統籌來做合作的機制讓我們整個目標要更加的明確來增加生育率的問題讓我們國人能夠有生養的問題的意願更願意生養\n陳金輝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.851 --> 00:11.114\n謝謝主席請高副主委來請高副主委\n\n00:17.179 --> 00:23.588\n委員長副支委本席在這邊想先就教您請問說國發會在主責業務當中哪一項是刻不容緩在關乎我們國家的未來跟經濟前景是當務之急必須要有對策先來解決的\n\n00:33.764 --> 00:34.765\n韓國發會執掌和橫卓在台灣的經濟發展狀況中,產業和能力應該是最重要的。\n\n01:17.594 --> 01:17.734\n則不予審查：呂玲\n\n02:07.199 --> 02:07.479\n則不予審查：呂玲\n\n02:52.955 --> 02:53.175\n蘇珊妮娜\n\n03:12.386 --> 03:12.426\n蘇玉玲議員\n\n03:36.599 --> 03:49.891\n﹗高中低估值是在14萬但是我們在2023年我們人口數只有13萬所以你這個只會寫報告你這個怎麼去評估這個低估值的你怎麼評估的\n\n03:51.793 --> 03:51.974\n蘇玉玲議員\n\n04:54.380 --> 05:03.725\n副主委就位金卡你們執行的6年執行的成績是如何?你現在只有6年的時間你只有發放9664張那你還喊出來說2030年你要延攬7萬名的國際專業人士你有這個信心嗎?你做得到嗎?\n\n05:13.191 --> 05:40.210\n好那跟委員報告說我們設定的7萬的國際專業人才是包括特專跟一般專業人才那目前呢大概就是就業金卡是屬於特專那一塊那我們目前的國際專業人才大概是14000專業人才14000人含就業金卡含就業金卡那你的7萬人就業金卡實施這麼久了是沒有功效嗎很困難嗎\n\n05:43.480 --> 06:08.841\n你這已經放寬了,我剛才提到就業金卡裡面就有四項合一的,就是給你們去延攬進來,都有在規範裡面,但是你們還是沒有辦法。因為我們就是一萬四千的特定專業人才裡面,我們是因為我們有設定減稅等相關的規定,所以我們設定的是…我現在跟你講就業金卡部分,這也是延攬人才啊,對不對?所以你的七萬人你做得到嗎?\n\n06:10.323 --> 06:15.975\n你居然喊出來了不要說只會做報告只會寫報告而已根本就達不到標準啊\n\n06:16.721 --> 06:24.487\n我們有信心可以達到2030年要達到所以本席在這邊也要請副主委還是對問題的根本你們就應該要跨部會去統籌來做合作的機制讓我們整個目標要更加的明確來增加生育率的問題讓我們國人能夠有生養的問題的意願更願意生養\n\n06:44.381 --> 06:44.501\n陳金輝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.851,"end":11.114,"text":"謝謝主席請高副主委來請高副主委"},{"start":17.179,"end":23.588,"text":"委員長副支委本席在這邊想先就教您請問說國發會在主責業務當中哪一項是刻不容緩在關乎我們國家的未來跟經濟前景是當務之急必須要有對策先來解決的"},{"start":33.764,"end":34.765,"text":"韓國發會執掌和橫卓在台灣的經濟發展狀況中,產業和能力應該是最重要的。"},{"start":54.462,"end":77.534,"text":"響鐘響鐘"},{"start":77.594,"end":77.734,"text":"則不予審查：呂玲"},{"start":99.735,"end":127.159,"text":" ﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏"},{"start":127.199,"end":127.479,"text":"則不予審查：呂玲"},{"start":150.538,"end":172.875,"text":"響鐘響鐘"},{"start":172.955,"end":173.175,"text":"蘇珊妮娜"},{"start":192.386,"end":192.426,"text":"蘇玉玲議員"},{"start":216.599,"end":229.891,"text":"﹗高中低估值是在14萬但是我們在2023年我們人口數只有13萬所以你這個只會寫報告你這個怎麼去評估這個低估值的你怎麼評估的"},{"start":231.793,"end":231.974,"text":"蘇玉玲議員"},{"start":249.514,"end":269.684,"text":"﹗﹗﹗"},{"start":269.684,"end":293.541,"text":"﹏﹏"},{"start":294.38,"end":303.725,"text":"副主委就位金卡你們執行的6年執行的成績是如何?你現在只有6年的時間你只有發放9664張那你還喊出來說2030年你要延攬7萬名的國際專業人士你有這個信心嗎?你做得到嗎?"},{"start":313.191,"end":340.21,"text":"好 那跟委員報告說我們設定的7萬的國際專業人才是包括特專跟一般專業人才那目前呢大概就是就業金卡是屬於特專那一塊那我們目前的國際專業人才大概是14000專業人才14000人含就業金卡含就業金卡 那你的7萬人就業金卡實施這麼久了是沒有功效嗎 很困難嗎"},{"start":343.48,"end":368.841,"text":"你這已經放寬了,我剛才提到就業金卡裡面就有四項合一的,就是給你們去延攬進來,都有在規範裡面,但是你們還是沒有辦法。因為我們就是一萬四千的特定專業人才裡面,我們是因為我們有設定減稅等相關的規定,所以我們設定的是…我現在跟你講就業金卡部分,這也是延攬人才啊,對不對?所以你的七萬人你做得到嗎?"},{"start":370.323,"end":375.975,"text":"你居然喊出來了不要說只會做報告只會寫報告而已根本就達不到標準啊"},{"start":376.721,"end":384.487,"text":"我們有信心可以達到2030年要達到所以本席在這邊也要請副主委還是對問題的根本你們就應該要跨部會去統籌來做合作的機制讓我們整個目標要更加的明確來增加生育率的問題讓我們國人能夠有生養的問題的意願更願意生養"},{"start":404.381,"end":404.501,"text":"陳金輝委員"}]}}}}