{"id":152779,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152779","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ec526bb9f1bdce9d57fca773582d49bb88b406ffa24a3d763b43bbf2d64d20173c1fa2322f5407415ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王鴻薇","委員發言時間":"10:24:06 - 10:36:51","影片長度":"00:12:45","會議時間":"2024-05-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆率所屬機關首長暨中央存款保險股份有限公司、監管相關機構有關之財團法人、臺灣證券交易所股份有限公司、臺灣期貨交易所股份有限公司、臺灣集中保管結算所股份有限公司等董事長、總經理列席業務報告，並備質詢。\n【5月20日及22日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-22","duration":765,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-13"},"end_time":"2024-05-22T10:36:51+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-22T10:24:06+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":410,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（10時24分）謝謝主席，我請主委。"],["主席：請彭主委。"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝王委員，你好。"],["王委員鴻薇：主委，首先先恭喜你，這也是老朋友。"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，謝謝。"],["王委員鴻薇：我剛才也有聽到賴惠員委員在詢問，你有沒有拜訪過我們召委還有各委員？昨天我有接到你的電話，因為確實昨天一整天，我們所有的委員都被綁在議場上，我覺得你可能太客氣了啦！事實上好像經濟部長上個禮拜就已經開始陸陸續續在拜訪了，我所瞭解像內政部長也是，當然也許內政部長自己出身立法院，所以我覺得這個部分禮數跟周到，或者說你可能也太客客氣了一些，當然，以後金管會還有很多的事情，大家可以再交換意見。"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝。"],["王委員鴻薇：主要我還是要特別提到，有關我們當沖的稅要不要繼續調降的問題，因為之前是財政部來備詢，我有特別提到而且我也表達不贊成當沖稅率繼續的調降。為什麼呢？因為前一陣子，主計總處也公布了最新的貧富差距，貧富差距事實上是擴大的非常非常多，到了66.9倍，我們常常在講貧富差距擴大，當然整個社會結構是其中因素之一，但是我們的稅制也是非常關鍵的因素。比如說，我們要怎麼樣來調整改善貧富差距的問題，其實政府的工具有限，其中一個就是稅，可是你今天比如想要增稅或者改變一些稅制，真的是非常非常的困難。好，我們回過頭來，其實如果我們的當沖稅率繼續調降的話，我老實講，唯一的獲利者是政府，第一個，金管會可以繼續的維持整個交易的榮景，我們待會可以看，確實實施當沖稅率調降、對半調降之後，我們的交易確實增加了很多，但是這使得我們整個稅制裡面，越趨於鼓勵資本所得者，而懲罰勞動所得者。所以我個人覺得，這個當沖稅繼續調降，而且你們一提就提5年，我覺得滿誇張的啦，我真的覺得滿誇張！","當然，因為你是昨天才上任，我真的覺得這個事情應該好好討論。財政部對這個事情事實上是有疑慮的，能感受得到，因為對他們來講稅制要公平，要量能課稅，到底我們調降當沖稅有沒有活絡市場？事實上，我們看到已經達成，而且很高啊！非常的活絡啊！我們在2016年的時候，平均的日均量不到一千億，實施之後已經超過一千五百億，到今年1到4月份，日均量五千億，請問一下我們還要再鼓勵什麼？我們還要再活絡什麼？難道現在不夠活絡嗎？就算你要繼續實施，你也應該再看一段時間啊，我覺得這才合理。","我那天就提出來，我大概是非常非常少數做民意代表敢講我不贊成當沖稅率要繼續調降的，因為我知道可能會得罪一些廣大的股民，還有一些在股市裡面的航海王，天天在那邊沖來沖去的。可是我們來看，今天你們活絡市場的目的已經達成了，至於大家獲利的狀況，我們也可以看到2021、2022、2023，2021整個虧損是435億；2022是虧損304億；2023這個是預估值，事實上證交所給我最新的資料total加起來是虧損291億，也將近300億，這是去年的資料。我們再來看，重點是當我們說其實整個是虧損的時候，交易所也給了我一個資料說沒有啊！其實這個大部分是大戶虧損的比較多，一般的散戶賺的比較多。可是如果我們看overall，可以看到整個當沖交易統計，這個是證交所給我，我再稍微把它整理出來，我們獲利的是52.93%、虧損47.07%，獲利233.5億、虧損524.76億，虧損的還是比較多，虧損還是比較多！一半、一半，看起來很公平啊，一半賺、一半賠，但是我看這數據跟賭博有什麼不一樣？就是我拿個錢幣……對啊！骰子還有6面，錢幣不就一個正面頭像、一個非頭像，那這跟賭博有什麼不一樣？所以要繼續調降當沖的稅率，唯一只是繼續維繫股市的榮景，這個榮景也許是上升啦，但是當它是下降趨勢的時候，只會更加深它的跌勢而已，但至少它的交易量是確實存在。我就說，這變成是政府當莊，唯一最賺的就是政府，雖然這個當沖的手續費好像通通都調降，可是因為你殺進殺出、殺進殺出，所以我們這幾年的超收稅收主要都來自股市。我想請問新的金管會主委，對於原來當沖稅率提出要長達5年繼續調降，你的看法是什麼？"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝委員，如果從損益的角度來看當沖的話，站在金管會立場比較不會從這個角度，它會從整個交易的流動性增加、價格發現，還有市場的效率性來看，確實我們在當沖的時候存在這樣的市場，也確實那些效果是比以前好的。剛剛委員也提到，未來我們的規模已經達到……"],["王委員鴻薇：如果你覺得這麼好，那乾脆永久性的調降囉？"],["彭主任委員金隆：這倒也不是，一件事情一定有它的正反兩面……"],["王委員鴻薇：階段性調降就是階段性任務，階段性已經達成了，你們還要給它調降？"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，這個……"],["王委員鴻薇：當然只有階段性任務才會再延長幾年，如果這麼好，你們就全部把它改過來。"],["彭主任委員金隆：是，因為資本市場本來就有很多面向，我們從資本市場監理的角度看到的是這個面向，剛剛委員你提到，比如說從投資者的獲利，還有鼓勵投機這樣的角度，那當然是有另外一個看法，我們只是要提供意見，誠如剛剛委員提到，我們過去這個公文已經給了財政部，確實是……"],["王委員鴻薇：據我所知，財政部覺得不夠，還要讓你們提供更多的資料……"],["彭主任委員金隆：是，所以我們會再來跟財政部協調……"],["王委員鴻薇：其實這一點我是比較支持財政部的立場，因為一個稅制不應該……而且像我們通常是一個階段性，你一下就5年耶！"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，所以我覺得這部分……當然接下來各種面向我們會提供財政部很多的想法，因為最後主政單位是他們，我們會再表達我們的看法。"],["王委員鴻薇：另外，我已經講出我的立場，我希望你們能夠審慎地去研究。你是新的主委，你可以再做多一點瞭解，不一定原來的黃規，彭就一定要隨，而且稅制應該不要一直在懲罰薪資所得者，然後一直鼓勵資本所得者。關於降稅，事實上它的階段性功能已經達成了，應該適可而止。","此外大家也非常關切，在您還沒有就任之前，在我們的司法法制委員會有作成決議，我不知道你知不知道，有關於保險，你也是專家，保險強制執行要訂出一個參考的規則，這個剛才也有其他委員特別提到，因為幾乎每一位民代，不管是議員或者立委也好，通通都接到相關的陳情跟服務案，事實上有一些還蠻悲慘的，我直接講，真的還有我的選民哀求我能不能幫他保留最後30萬的喪葬費用，講到這樣子，其實我真的很想幫忙啊！所以我覺得當時法院做出這樣的決議其實沒有考慮到整個保險市場裡面的面向非常多，投保的人裡面有一些確實是把他的錢藏在保險裡，但是有一些人的薪資所得或者收入並不高，但是他每一年、每一年慢慢地幫自己或者幫家人投保，可是因為這樣子，他整個保單都解約了。所以我講的就是，我的選民竟然告訴我，能不能幫忙他留一點點喪葬費用，不要讓他全部解約，很心酸……"],["彭主任委員金隆：是。"],["王委員鴻薇：我知道在司法法制委員會裡面有一個決議，要求你們要去訂定一個原則……"],["彭主任委員金隆：對、對。"],["王委員鴻薇：哪些可以排除或者一定金額，現在我看到媒體講是10萬塊，我希望能夠適當地提高，好不好？"],["彭主任委員金隆：是，我想說……"],["王委員鴻薇：因為我覺得10萬塊其實很少耶！可不可以？"],["彭主任委員金隆：可不可以請局長……"],["王委員鴻薇：對，用一點時間，趕快……"],["施局長瓊華：報告委員，我們這個禮拜已經開過會了，因為保留的部分是解約金的金額，每一件、每一張啦！但如果是保險金額的話，我們其實訂的比較高，我們人壽保險契約是訂100萬。"],["王委員鴻薇：人壽保險契約就是他即便解約的話，他可以……"],["施局長瓊華：就是保險契約如果在100萬的金額以下，就建議它不予強制執行。"],["王委員鴻薇：就是以100萬，如果是人壽保險的部分，是不是？"],["施局長瓊華：對、對。"],["王委員鴻薇：100萬就不予強制執行……"],["施局長瓊華：是，我們是這樣建議……"],["王委員鴻薇：讓他保留……這些保戶辛辛苦苦，對於這種並不算是大額的保單，讓他至少能夠保障他的權益。"],["施局長瓊華：是、是。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，因為我時間到了，你們的資料可不可以給我們？"],["施局長瓊華：我們剛開過會……"],["王委員鴻薇：給我們委員一份資料嘛！我們所有的委員都關心。"],["主席：資料請後補。"],["王委員鴻薇：對，好不好？"],["施局長瓊華：我們會儘快來提供。"],["王委員鴻薇：因為你們已經剛開過會，我想這兩天可以整理給我們，好不好？"],["彭主任委員金隆：沒問題，我們準備好就馬上給委員。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，謝謝。"],["主席：給每一位委員。"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝王委員，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","下一位質詢請郭國文召委。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":332,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-13","speakers":["羅明才","林德福","吳秉叡","顏寬恒","賴惠員","賴士葆","王鴻薇","郭國文","李彥秀","黃珊珊","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","李坤城","王世堅","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","葛如鈞","陳玉珍","林楚茵","吳春城","鍾佳濱","謝衣鳯","張嘉郡"],"page_start":263,"meetingDate":["2024-05-22"],"gazette_id":"1134901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1134901_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆率所屬機關首長暨中央存款保險股份有限公司、監管相\n關機構有關之財團法人、臺灣證券交易所股份有限公司、臺灣期貨交易所股份有限公司、臺灣集\n中保管結算所股份有限公司等董事長、總經理列席業務報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1134901_00005"}},"transcript":{"id":"152779","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152779","tool":"pyannote","id":"152779-pyannote"},"job_id":"lJWnsLAPVmXy6ffb","queued_at":"2024-05-30 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365.642, \"end\": 365.782, \"score\": 0.764}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 365.782, \"end\": 366.323, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 366.323, \"end\": 367.104, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"頭\"}, {\"word\": \"像\", \"start\": 367.104, \"end\": 367.685, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 367.685, \"end\": 368.065, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 368.065, \"end\": 368.526, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 368.526, \"end\": 368.626, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"頭\"}, {\"word\": \"像\", \"start\": 368.626, \"end\": 368.646, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 370.014, \"end\": 395.725, \"text\": \"那這跟賭博有什麼不一樣所以要繼續調降當沖的稅率唯一只是繼續維繫一個股市的榮景這個榮景也許是上升啦但是當它是下降趨勢的時候它只會更加深它的這個跌勢而已但是至少它的交易量是確實存在所以我就說這變成是政府當莊啦\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 370.014, \"end\": 370.294, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 370.294, \"end\": 370.534, \"score\": 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\"end\": 391.083, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"至\", \"start\": 391.083, \"end\": 391.203, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 391.203, \"end\": 391.344, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 391.344, \"end\": 391.484, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 391.484, \"end\": 391.664, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 391.664, \"end\": 391.964, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"易\", \"start\": 391.964, \"end\": 392.084, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"量\", \"start\": 392.084, \"end\": 392.304, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 392.304, \"end\": 392.704, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"存\", \"start\": 392.704, \"end\": 392.884, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 392.884, \"end\": 393.324, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 393.324, \"end\": 393.404, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 393.404, \"end\": 393.464, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 393.464, \"end\": 393.585, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 393.585, \"end\": 394.225, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 394.225, \"end\": 394.485, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 394.485, \"end\": 395.185, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 395.185, \"end\": 395.545, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 395.545, \"end\": 395.705, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"莊\"}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 395.705, \"end\": 395.725, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 397.369, \"end\": 424.048, \"text\": \"唯一最賺的就是政府啊雖然這個好像是手續費啊這個當沖的這個什麼手續費這些通都調降可是因為你殺進殺出殺進殺出所以我們這幾年我們這幾年的超收稅說主要都來自股市所以我想請問新的經管會主委您對於當沖稅率原來提出來要長達五年繼續調降你的看法是什麼\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"唯\", \"start\": 397.369, \"end\": 397.549, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 397.549, \"end\": 397.989, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 397.989, \"end\": 398.41, \"score\": 0.926}, 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\"謝謝委員剛剛提到就是說若從損益的角度來看當沖的話這個通常假設站在金管會立場他比較不會去從這個角度他會從整個交易的流動性增加還有價格發現還有他市場的效率性來看確實在我們當沖的時候這樣存在的這樣的一個市場的時候確實剛剛那些效果是比以前好的剛剛委員也提到就是說未來就是等於是我們的規模已經達到…如果你覺得這麼好乾脆永久卸條這樣囉\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 425.067, \"end\": 425.868, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 425.868, \"end\": 426.028, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 426.028, \"end\": 426.208, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 426.208, \"end\": 426.388, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 426.388, \"end\": 426.989, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"若\", \"start\": 426.989, \"end\": 427.89, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"從\"}, {\"word\": \"損\"}, {\"word\": \"益\", \"start\": 427.89, \"end\": 428.01, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 428.01, \"end\": 428.15, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"角\", \"start\": 428.15, \"end\": 428.37, \"score\": 0.975}, 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00:00:49,696\n因為確實昨天一整天我們所有的委員都被綁在議場上那我覺得你可能太客氣了啦那事實上好像經濟部長在上個禮拜就已經開始陸陸續續在拜訪了我所了解像內政部長也是當然內政部長他自己出身立法院\n\n3\n00:00:50,256 --> 00:01:06,123\n所以我覺得這個部分理數跟周到或者說你可能也太客氣了一些那當然以後就然後還有很多的事情大家可以再做這個交換意見主要呢我還是要特別提到有關我們的當沖的這個稅要不要繼續調降的問題\n\n4\n00:01:11,525 --> 00:01:23,013\n因為之前是財政部來做備詢我有特別提到而且我也特別表達我不贊成當沖稅率繼續的調降為什麼呢?因為前一陣子我們的主計處也公布了最新的貧富差距貧富差距事實上是擴大得非常非常多66.9倍\n\n5\n00:01:37,743 --> 00:02:00,994\n我們常常在講其實擴大貧富差距當然整個社會結構是其中之一但是我們的稅制其實也是非常關鍵的因素比如說我們要怎麼樣來調整、改善貧富差距的問題其實政府的工具有限其中一個就是稅\n\n6\n00:02:01,894 --> 00:02:12,638\n可是你今天想要比如說徵稅啦或者改變一些稅制真的非常非常的困難好那我們回過頭來其實如果我們的當中稅率繼續調降的話唯一的獲利者我老實講唯一的獲利者是政府\n\n7\n00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:39,040\n第一個機管會可以繼續的維持這個整個的交易的榮景我們待會可以看確實我們實施這個當沖稅率調降對半調降之後呢我們的這個交易確實增加了很多但是\n\n8\n00:02:40,393 --> 00:03:06,983\n但是這使得就是我們的這個整個稅制裡面越趨的是去鼓勵資本所得者而懲罰勞動所得者所以我個人覺得這個當沖稅要繼續調降而且你們一提就提五年我覺得蠻誇張的啦我真的覺得蠻誇張當然因為你是昨天才上任我真的覺得這個事情應該好好討論來我們看下一頁\n\n9\n00:03:10,652 --> 00:03:23,497\n財政部對這個事情事實上是有疑慮的感受得到因為他們對他們來講稅制要公平嘛量能課稅好再來看也就是說到底我們調降當沖稅率\n\n10\n00:03:25,236 --> 00:03:44,456\n有沒有這個活絡市場市場我們看到已經達成而且很高啊非常的活絡啊我們在2016年的時候平均的日均量不到1000億實施之後呢已經超過1000億1500億到今年1到4月份日均量5000億\n\n11\n00:03:47,747 --> 00:04:02,804\n請問一下我們還要再鼓勵什麼?我們還要活絡什麼?難道現在不夠活絡了嗎?那你就算你要繼續實施,你也應該再看一段時間啊。我覺得這才合理。下一頁。\n\n12\n00:04:04,045 --> 00:04:22,846\n重要的是像我這樣我那天就提出來我大概是非常非常少數做民意代表敢講說我不贊成當中稅率要繼續調降的因為我知道可能會得罪一些廣大的股民還有一些這個在股市裡面的航海王天天在那邊衝來衝去的\n\n13\n00:04:24,668 --> 00:04:38,736\n可是我們今天來看你們的活絡市場的目的已經達成了那至於到底大家的獲利的狀況大家也可以看到2021、2022、20232021整個的虧損是435億2022是304億2023這個是預估值事實上我也知道就是證交所給我最新的資料\n\n14\n00:04:53,064 --> 00:05:21,598\n也是total加起來是291億也將近300億這是去年的資料好我們再來看好重點是當我們說這個其實整個是虧損的時候那麼交易所也給了我一個資料說啊沒有啊其實呢這個大部分是大戶虧損的比較多一般的散戶賺的比較多可是如果我們看overall的話\n\n15\n00:05:22,830 --> 00:05:35,939\n可以看到整個的當沖交易統計這個是證交所給我在上面把它整理出來我們獲利的是52.93%虧損47%獲利233.5億虧損524.76億虧損的還是比較多虧損還是比較多一半一半看起來很公平一半賺一半賠\n\n16\n00:05:51,585 --> 00:06:08,646\n但是我看到這個數據跟賭博有什麼不一樣?就是我拿個我這邊沒有那個一個錢幣對啊骰子還有六面啊然後我這個錢幣不是就一個對不對一個正面一個頭像一個那個非頭像\n\n17\n00:06:10,014 --> 00:06:35,725\n那這跟賭博有什麼不一樣所以要繼續調降當沖的稅率唯一只是繼續維繫一個股市的榮景這個榮景也許是上升啦但是當它是下降趨勢的時候它只會更加深它的這個跌勢而已但是至少它的交易量是確實存在所以我就說這變成是政府當莊啦\n\n18\n00:06:37,369 --> 00:07:04,048\n唯一最賺的就是政府啊雖然這個好像是手續費啊這個當沖的這個什麼手續費這些通都調降可是因為你殺進殺出殺進殺出所以我們這幾年我們這幾年的超收稅說主要都來自股市所以我想請問新的經管會主委您對於當沖稅率原來提出來要長達五年繼續調降你的看法是什麼\n\n19\n00:07:05,067 --> 00:07:33,310\n謝謝委員剛剛提到就是說若從損益的角度來看當沖的話這個通常假設站在金管會立場他比較不會去從這個角度他會從整個交易的流動性增加還有價格發現還有他市場的效率性來看確實在我們當沖的時候這樣存在的這樣的一個市場的時候確實剛剛那些效果是比以前好的剛剛委員也提到就是說未來就是等於是我們的規模已經達到…如果你覺得這麼好乾脆永久卸條這樣囉\n\n20\n00:07:34,932 --> 00:07:50,974\n這倒也不是這倒也不是就是說一件事情一定有它的正反兩面你階段性調降就階段性任務階段性已經達成了你們還不要給他調降他當然是有階段性任務才會說我延長再延長幾年如果這麼好你就全部把它改過來\n\n21\n00:07:53,030 --> 00:08:17,472\n這部分的話就是說因為資本市場本來就有很多面向我們從資本市場監理的角度我們剛剛看到是這個面向剛剛委員你提到就是說比如說從投資者的獲利還有鼓勵所謂的投機這樣的角度那當然是有另外一個看法那我們只是說我們要提供意見陳同該委員提到我們過去這個公文已經給了財政部以後確實是財政部據我所知財政部覺得不夠\n\n22\n00:08:18,172 --> 00:08:41,242\n還要讓你們提供更多的資料所以我們會再來跟財政部來協調其實在這一點我是比較支持財政部的立場因為一個稅制不應該而且你像我們通常一個階段性你一下就五年欸對所以說我覺得這部分我我們當然接下來有關各種面向我們會提供財政部很多的想法啦因為最後主政單位是他我們會再表達我們的看法對\n\n23\n00:08:42,281 --> 00:09:09,460\n另外這個我已經講出我的立場我希望我希望你們能夠審慎的去研究因為這個你是新的主委你可以再做多一點瞭解不一定啊不一定原來的這個黃龜棚就一定要衰而且呢我覺得不管是跟我們覺得就是稅制應該不要去一直在懲罰薪資所得者\n\n24\n00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:27,751\n然後一直鼓勵資本所得者還有就是他的這個降稅事實上他的階段性功能已經達成了應該適可而止另外一個就是大家也非常關切這個是在您還沒有就任之前在我們的司法法制委員會有做成決議\n\n25\n00:09:29,392 --> 00:09:57,841\n我不知道你知不知道就是有關於這個保險你也是專家就是保險強制執行要訂出一個參考的規則這個我剛才也有其他的委員也有特別提到因為幾乎每一位名單不管是議員也好或者立委也好通通都接到相關的陳情跟服務案那有一些事上還蠻悲慘的我直接講我真的還有我的這個選民\n\n26\n00:09:59,962 --> 00:10:26,921\n他哀求什麼他說能不能幫我保留30萬的最後的傷臟費用講到這樣子其實我真的很想幫忙啊所以我覺得當時這個整個法院做出來的這樣的一個決議其實沒有考慮到整個的保險市場裡面它的面向非常多然後投保的人裡面\n\n27\n00:10:27,601 --> 00:10:50,986\n有一些真的可能是把他的錢藏在保險裡也確實但是有一些真的我們講說有薪資所得或者他的收入並不高但是呢他每一年每一年這樣子慢慢的就幫自己或者幫家人做一個投保可是因為這樣子他就整個保單都解約了所以我講就是說我的選民竟然有告訴我說能不能幫忙\n\n28\n00:10:52,466 --> 00:11:08,364\n把他留一點點喪葬費用在那邊不要讓他全部解約很心酸所以我知道在司法法政委員會裡面他有一個決議然後要求你們要去訂定一個就是一個\n\n29\n00:11:09,585 --> 00:11:22,096\n原則哪些可以排除或者一定金額那我現在看到媒體有講說是有10萬塊那我希望能夠適當的提高好不好因為我覺得10萬塊其實是很少的耶\n\n30\n00:11:28,141 --> 00:11:40,732\n法務委員我們這個禮拜已經開過會了那保留的部分因為那個是解約金的金額每一件每一張啦但是如果是保險金額的話我們其實訂的比較高我們是訂100萬人壽保險契約\n\n31\n00:11:46,236 --> 00:12:13,776\n人壽保險契約即是他即便解約的話他可以就是說有保險契約如果在一百萬的金額以下的話就建議他不予強制執行就是以一百萬如果是人壽保險的部分嘛是不是一百萬就不予強制執行讓他保留一個就是讓這些保護辛辛苦苦他至少能夠這種並不算是大額的保單讓他能夠\n\n32\n00:12:15,237 --> 00:12:15,437\n下一位質詢請\n\n33\n00:12:44,302 --> 00:12:45,461\n郭國文、郭昭薇\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3790\t28423\t謝謝主席我請我們主委請彭主委謝謝王委員好主委首先先恭喜你這也是老朋友謝謝但是我剛才也有聽到賴會員委員在詢問那就是你有沒有拜訪過我們召委還有就是各委員那昨天我有接到你的電話\n29443\t49696\t因為確實昨天一整天我們所有的委員都被綁在議場上那我覺得你可能太客氣了啦那事實上好像經濟部長在上個禮拜就已經開始陸陸續續在拜訪了我所了解像內政部長也是當然內政部長他自己出身立法院\n50256\t66123\t所以我覺得這個部分理數跟周到或者說你可能也太客氣了一些那當然以後就然後還有很多的事情大家可以再做這個交換意見主要呢我還是要特別提到有關我們的當沖的這個稅要不要繼續調降的問題\n71525\t83013\t因為之前是財政部來做備詢我有特別提到而且我也特別表達我不贊成當沖稅率繼續的調降為什麼呢?因為前一陣子我們的主計處也公布了最新的貧富差距貧富差距事實上是擴大得非常非常多66.9倍\n97743\t120994\t我們常常在講其實擴大貧富差距當然整個社會結構是其中之一但是我們的稅制其實也是非常關鍵的因素比如說我們要怎麼樣來調整、改善貧富差距的問題其實政府的工具有限其中一個就是稅\n121894\t132638\t可是你今天想要比如說徵稅啦或者改變一些稅制真的非常非常的困難好那我們回過頭來其實如果我們的當中稅率繼續調降的話唯一的獲利者我老實講唯一的獲利者是政府\n139600\t159040\t第一個機管會可以繼續的維持這個整個的交易的榮景我們待會可以看確實我們實施這個當沖稅率調降對半調降之後呢我們的這個交易確實增加了很多但是\n160393\t186983\t但是這使得就是我們的這個整個稅制裡面越趨的是去鼓勵資本所得者而懲罰勞動所得者所以我個人覺得這個當沖稅要繼續調降而且你們一提就提五年我覺得蠻誇張的啦我真的覺得蠻誇張當然因為你是昨天才上任我真的覺得這個事情應該好好討論來我們看下一頁\n190652\t203497\t財政部對這個事情事實上是有疑慮的感受得到因為他們對他們來講稅制要公平嘛量能課稅好再來看也就是說到底我們調降當沖稅率\n205236\t224456\t有沒有這個活絡市場市場我們看到已經達成而且很高啊非常的活絡啊我們在2016年的時候平均的日均量不到1000億實施之後呢已經超過1000億1500億到今年1到4月份日均量5000億\n227747\t242804\t請問一下我們還要再鼓勵什麼?我們還要活絡什麼?難道現在不夠活絡了嗎?那你就算你要繼續實施,你也應該再看一段時間啊。我覺得這才合理。下一頁。\n244045\t262846\t重要的是像我這樣我那天就提出來我大概是非常非常少數做民意代表敢講說我不贊成當中稅率要繼續調降的因為我知道可能會得罪一些廣大的股民還有一些這個在股市裡面的航海王天天在那邊衝來衝去的\n264668\t278736\t可是我們今天來看你們的活絡市場的目的已經達成了那至於到底大家的獲利的狀況大家也可以看到2021、2022、20232021整個的虧損是435億2022是304億2023這個是預估值事實上我也知道就是證交所給我最新的資料\n293064\t321598\t也是total加起來是291億也將近300億這是去年的資料好我們再來看好重點是當我們說這個其實整個是虧損的時候那麼交易所也給了我一個資料說啊沒有啊其實呢這個大部分是大戶虧損的比較多一般的散戶賺的比較多可是如果我們看overall的話\n322830\t335939\t可以看到整個的當沖交易統計這個是證交所給我在上面把它整理出來我們獲利的是52.93%虧損47%獲利233.5億虧損524.76億虧損的還是比較多虧損還是比較多一半一半看起來很公平一半賺一半賠\n351585\t368646\t但是我看到這個數據跟賭博有什麼不一樣?就是我拿個我這邊沒有那個一個錢幣對啊骰子還有六面啊然後我這個錢幣不是就一個對不對一個正面一個頭像一個那個非頭像\n370014\t395725\t那這跟賭博有什麼不一樣所以要繼續調降當沖的稅率唯一只是繼續維繫一個股市的榮景這個榮景也許是上升啦但是當它是下降趨勢的時候它只會更加深它的這個跌勢而已但是至少它的交易量是確實存在所以我就說這變成是政府當莊啦\n397369\t424048\t唯一最賺的就是政府啊雖然這個好像是手續費啊這個當沖的這個什麼手續費這些通都調降可是因為你殺進殺出殺進殺出所以我們這幾年我們這幾年的超收稅說主要都來自股市所以我想請問新的經管會主委您對於當沖稅率原來提出來要長達五年繼續調降你的看法是什麼\n425067\t453310\t謝謝委員剛剛提到就是說若從損益的角度來看當沖的話這個通常假設站在金管會立場他比較不會去從這個角度他會從整個交易的流動性增加還有價格發現還有他市場的效率性來看確實在我們當沖的時候這樣存在的這樣的一個市場的時候確實剛剛那些效果是比以前好的剛剛委員也提到就是說未來就是等於是我們的規模已經達到…如果你覺得這麼好乾脆永久卸條這樣囉\n454932\t470974\t這倒也不是這倒也不是就是說一件事情一定有它的正反兩面你階段性調降就階段性任務階段性已經達成了你們還不要給他調降他當然是有階段性任務才會說我延長再延長幾年如果這麼好你就全部把它改過來\n473030\t497472\t這部分的話就是說因為資本市場本來就有很多面向我們從資本市場監理的角度我們剛剛看到是這個面向剛剛委員你提到就是說比如說從投資者的獲利還有鼓勵所謂的投機這樣的角度那當然是有另外一個看法那我們只是說我們要提供意見陳同該委員提到我們過去這個公文已經給了財政部以後確實是財政部據我所知財政部覺得不夠\n498172\t521242\t還要讓你們提供更多的資料所以我們會再來跟財政部來協調其實在這一點我是比較支持財政部的立場因為一個稅制不應該而且你像我們通常一個階段性你一下就五年欸對所以說我覺得這部分我我們當然接下來有關各種面向我們會提供財政部很多的想法啦因為最後主政單位是他我們會再表達我們的看法對\n522281\t549460\t另外這個我已經講出我的立場我希望我希望你們能夠審慎的去研究因為這個你是新的主委你可以再做多一點瞭解不一定啊不一定原來的這個黃龜棚就一定要衰而且呢我覺得不管是跟我們覺得就是稅制應該不要去一直在懲罰薪資所得者\n550200\t567751\t然後一直鼓勵資本所得者還有就是他的這個降稅事實上他的階段性功能已經達成了應該適可而止另外一個就是大家也非常關切這個是在您還沒有就任之前在我們的司法法制委員會有做成決議\n569392\t597841\t我不知道你知不知道就是有關於這個保險你也是專家就是保險強制執行要訂出一個參考的規則這個我剛才也有其他的委員也有特別提到因為幾乎每一位名單不管是議員也好或者立委也好通通都接到相關的陳情跟服務案那有一些事上還蠻悲慘的我直接講我真的還有我的這個選民\n599962\t626921\t他哀求什麼他說能不能幫我保留30萬的最後的傷臟費用講到這樣子其實我真的很想幫忙啊所以我覺得當時這個整個法院做出來的這樣的一個決議其實沒有考慮到整個的保險市場裡面它的面向非常多然後投保的人裡面\n627601\t650986\t有一些真的可能是把他的錢藏在保險裡也確實但是有一些真的我們講說有薪資所得或者他的收入並不高但是呢他每一年每一年這樣子慢慢的就幫自己或者幫家人做一個投保可是因為這樣子他就整個保單都解約了所以我講就是說我的選民竟然有告訴我說能不能幫忙\n652466\t668364\t把他留一點點喪葬費用在那邊不要讓他全部解約很心酸所以我知道在司法法政委員會裡面他有一個決議然後要求你們要去訂定一個就是一個\n669585\t682096\t原則哪些可以排除或者一定金額那我現在看到媒體有講說是有10萬塊那我希望能夠適當的提高好不好因為我覺得10萬塊其實是很少的耶\n688141\t700732\t法務委員我們這個禮拜已經開過會了那保留的部分因為那個是解約金的金額每一件每一張啦但是如果是保險金額的話我們其實訂的比較高我們是訂100萬人壽保險契約\n706236\t733776\t人壽保險契約即是他即便解約的話他可以就是說有保險契約如果在一百萬的金額以下的話就建議他不予強制執行就是以一百萬如果是人壽保險的部分嘛是不是一百萬就不予強制執行讓他保留一個就是讓這些保護辛辛苦苦他至少能夠這種並不算是大額的保單讓他能夠\n735237\t735437\t下一位質詢請\n764302\t765461\t郭國文、郭昭薇\n","txt":"謝謝主席我請我們主委請彭主委謝謝王委員好主委首先先恭喜你這也是老朋友謝謝但是我剛才也有聽到賴會員委員在詢問那就是你有沒有拜訪過我們召委還有就是各委員那昨天我有接到你的電話\n因為確實昨天一整天我們所有的委員都被綁在議場上那我覺得你可能太客氣了啦那事實上好像經濟部長在上個禮拜就已經開始陸陸續續在拜訪了我所了解像內政部長也是當然內政部長他自己出身立法院\n所以我覺得這個部分理數跟周到或者說你可能也太客氣了一些那當然以後就然後還有很多的事情大家可以再做這個交換意見主要呢我還是要特別提到有關我們的當沖的這個稅要不要繼續調降的問題\n因為之前是財政部來做備詢我有特別提到而且我也特別表達我不贊成當沖稅率繼續的調降為什麼呢?因為前一陣子我們的主計處也公布了最新的貧富差距貧富差距事實上是擴大得非常非常多66.9倍\n我們常常在講其實擴大貧富差距當然整個社會結構是其中之一但是我們的稅制其實也是非常關鍵的因素比如說我們要怎麼樣來調整、改善貧富差距的問題其實政府的工具有限其中一個就是稅\n可是你今天想要比如說徵稅啦或者改變一些稅制真的非常非常的困難好那我們回過頭來其實如果我們的當中稅率繼續調降的話唯一的獲利者我老實講唯一的獲利者是政府\n第一個機管會可以繼續的維持這個整個的交易的榮景我們待會可以看確實我們實施這個當沖稅率調降對半調降之後呢我們的這個交易確實增加了很多但是\n但是這使得就是我們的這個整個稅制裡面越趨的是去鼓勵資本所得者而懲罰勞動所得者所以我個人覺得這個當沖稅要繼續調降而且你們一提就提五年我覺得蠻誇張的啦我真的覺得蠻誇張當然因為你是昨天才上任我真的覺得這個事情應該好好討論來我們看下一頁\n財政部對這個事情事實上是有疑慮的感受得到因為他們對他們來講稅制要公平嘛量能課稅好再來看也就是說到底我們調降當沖稅率\n有沒有這個活絡市場市場我們看到已經達成而且很高啊非常的活絡啊我們在2016年的時候平均的日均量不到1000億實施之後呢已經超過1000億1500億到今年1到4月份日均量5000億\n請問一下我們還要再鼓勵什麼?我們還要活絡什麼?難道現在不夠活絡了嗎?那你就算你要繼續實施,你也應該再看一段時間啊。我覺得這才合理。下一頁。\n重要的是像我這樣我那天就提出來我大概是非常非常少數做民意代表敢講說我不贊成當中稅率要繼續調降的因為我知道可能會得罪一些廣大的股民還有一些這個在股市裡面的航海王天天在那邊衝來衝去的\n可是我們今天來看你們的活絡市場的目的已經達成了那至於到底大家的獲利的狀況大家也可以看到2021、2022、20232021整個的虧損是435億2022是304億2023這個是預估值事實上我也知道就是證交所給我最新的資料\n也是total加起來是291億也將近300億這是去年的資料好我們再來看好重點是當我們說這個其實整個是虧損的時候那麼交易所也給了我一個資料說啊沒有啊其實呢這個大部分是大戶虧損的比較多一般的散戶賺的比較多可是如果我們看overall的話\n可以看到整個的當沖交易統計這個是證交所給我在上面把它整理出來我們獲利的是52.93%虧損47%獲利233.5億虧損524.76億虧損的還是比較多虧損還是比較多一半一半看起來很公平一半賺一半賠\n但是我看到這個數據跟賭博有什麼不一樣?就是我拿個我這邊沒有那個一個錢幣對啊骰子還有六面啊然後我這個錢幣不是就一個對不對一個正面一個頭像一個那個非頭像\n那這跟賭博有什麼不一樣所以要繼續調降當沖的稅率唯一只是繼續維繫一個股市的榮景這個榮景也許是上升啦但是當它是下降趨勢的時候它只會更加深它的這個跌勢而已但是至少它的交易量是確實存在所以我就說這變成是政府當莊啦\n唯一最賺的就是政府啊雖然這個好像是手續費啊這個當沖的這個什麼手續費這些通都調降可是因為你殺進殺出殺進殺出所以我們這幾年我們這幾年的超收稅說主要都來自股市所以我想請問新的經管會主委您對於當沖稅率原來提出來要長達五年繼續調降你的看法是什麼\n謝謝委員剛剛提到就是說若從損益的角度來看當沖的話這個通常假設站在金管會立場他比較不會去從這個角度他會從整個交易的流動性增加還有價格發現還有他市場的效率性來看確實在我們當沖的時候這樣存在的這樣的一個市場的時候確實剛剛那些效果是比以前好的剛剛委員也提到就是說未來就是等於是我們的規模已經達到…如果你覺得這麼好乾脆永久卸條這樣囉\n這倒也不是這倒也不是就是說一件事情一定有它的正反兩面你階段性調降就階段性任務階段性已經達成了你們還不要給他調降他當然是有階段性任務才會說我延長再延長幾年如果這麼好你就全部把它改過來\n這部分的話就是說因為資本市場本來就有很多面向我們從資本市場監理的角度我們剛剛看到是這個面向剛剛委員你提到就是說比如說從投資者的獲利還有鼓勵所謂的投機這樣的角度那當然是有另外一個看法那我們只是說我們要提供意見陳同該委員提到我們過去這個公文已經給了財政部以後確實是財政部據我所知財政部覺得不夠\n還要讓你們提供更多的資料所以我們會再來跟財政部來協調其實在這一點我是比較支持財政部的立場因為一個稅制不應該而且你像我們通常一個階段性你一下就五年欸對所以說我覺得這部分我我們當然接下來有關各種面向我們會提供財政部很多的想法啦因為最後主政單位是他我們會再表達我們的看法對\n另外這個我已經講出我的立場我希望我希望你們能夠審慎的去研究因為這個你是新的主委你可以再做多一點瞭解不一定啊不一定原來的這個黃龜棚就一定要衰而且呢我覺得不管是跟我們覺得就是稅制應該不要去一直在懲罰薪資所得者\n然後一直鼓勵資本所得者還有就是他的這個降稅事實上他的階段性功能已經達成了應該適可而止另外一個就是大家也非常關切這個是在您還沒有就任之前在我們的司法法制委員會有做成決議\n我不知道你知不知道就是有關於這個保險你也是專家就是保險強制執行要訂出一個參考的規則這個我剛才也有其他的委員也有特別提到因為幾乎每一位名單不管是議員也好或者立委也好通通都接到相關的陳情跟服務案那有一些事上還蠻悲慘的我直接講我真的還有我的這個選民\n他哀求什麼他說能不能幫我保留30萬的最後的傷臟費用講到這樣子其實我真的很想幫忙啊所以我覺得當時這個整個法院做出來的這樣的一個決議其實沒有考慮到整個的保險市場裡面它的面向非常多然後投保的人裡面\n有一些真的可能是把他的錢藏在保險裡也確實但是有一些真的我們講說有薪資所得或者他的收入並不高但是呢他每一年每一年這樣子慢慢的就幫自己或者幫家人做一個投保可是因為這樣子他就整個保單都解約了所以我講就是說我的選民竟然有告訴我說能不能幫忙\n把他留一點點喪葬費用在那邊不要讓他全部解約很心酸所以我知道在司法法政委員會裡面他有一個決議然後要求你們要去訂定一個就是一個\n原則哪些可以排除或者一定金額那我現在看到媒體有講說是有10萬塊那我希望能夠適當的提高好不好因為我覺得10萬塊其實是很少的耶\n法務委員我們這個禮拜已經開過會了那保留的部分因為那個是解約金的金額每一件每一張啦但是如果是保險金額的話我們其實訂的比較高我們是訂100萬人壽保險契約\n人壽保險契約即是他即便解約的話他可以就是說有保險契約如果在一百萬的金額以下的話就建議他不予強制執行就是以一百萬如果是人壽保險的部分嘛是不是一百萬就不予強制執行讓他保留一個就是讓這些保護辛辛苦苦他至少能夠這種並不算是大額的保單讓他能夠\n下一位質詢請\n郭國文、郭昭薇\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.790 --> 00:28.423\n謝謝主席我請我們主委請彭主委謝謝王委員好主委首先先恭喜你這也是老朋友謝謝但是我剛才也有聽到賴會員委員在詢問那就是你有沒有拜訪過我們召委還有就是各委員那昨天我有接到你的電話\n\n00:29.443 --> 00:49.696\n因為確實昨天一整天我們所有的委員都被綁在議場上那我覺得你可能太客氣了啦那事實上好像經濟部長在上個禮拜就已經開始陸陸續續在拜訪了我所了解像內政部長也是當然內政部長他自己出身立法院\n\n00:50.256 --> 01:06.123\n所以我覺得這個部分理數跟周到或者說你可能也太客氣了一些那當然以後就然後還有很多的事情大家可以再做這個交換意見主要呢我還是要特別提到有關我們的當沖的這個稅要不要繼續調降的問題\n\n01:11.525 --> 01:23.013\n因為之前是財政部來做備詢我有特別提到而且我也特別表達我不贊成當沖稅率繼續的調降為什麼呢?因為前一陣子我們的主計處也公布了最新的貧富差距貧富差距事實上是擴大得非常非常多66.9倍\n\n01:37.743 --> 02:00.994\n我們常常在講其實擴大貧富差距當然整個社會結構是其中之一但是我們的稅制其實也是非常關鍵的因素比如說我們要怎麼樣來調整、改善貧富差距的問題其實政府的工具有限其中一個就是稅\n\n02:01.894 --> 02:12.638\n可是你今天想要比如說徵稅啦或者改變一些稅制真的非常非常的困難好那我們回過頭來其實如果我們的當中稅率繼續調降的話唯一的獲利者我老實講唯一的獲利者是政府\n\n02:19.600 --> 02:39.040\n第一個機管會可以繼續的維持這個整個的交易的榮景我們待會可以看確實我們實施這個當沖稅率調降對半調降之後呢我們的這個交易確實增加了很多但是\n\n02:40.393 --> 03:06.983\n但是這使得就是我們的這個整個稅制裡面越趨的是去鼓勵資本所得者而懲罰勞動所得者所以我個人覺得這個當沖稅要繼續調降而且你們一提就提五年我覺得蠻誇張的啦我真的覺得蠻誇張當然因為你是昨天才上任我真的覺得這個事情應該好好討論來我們看下一頁\n\n03:10.652 --> 03:23.497\n財政部對這個事情事實上是有疑慮的感受得到因為他們對他們來講稅制要公平嘛量能課稅好再來看也就是說到底我們調降當沖稅率\n\n03:25.236 --> 03:44.456\n有沒有這個活絡市場市場我們看到已經達成而且很高啊非常的活絡啊我們在2016年的時候平均的日均量不到1000億實施之後呢已經超過1000億1500億到今年1到4月份日均量5000億\n\n03:47.747 --> 04:02.804\n請問一下我們還要再鼓勵什麼?我們還要活絡什麼?難道現在不夠活絡了嗎?那你就算你要繼續實施,你也應該再看一段時間啊。我覺得這才合理。下一頁。\n\n04:04.045 --> 04:22.846\n重要的是像我這樣我那天就提出來我大概是非常非常少數做民意代表敢講說我不贊成當中稅率要繼續調降的因為我知道可能會得罪一些廣大的股民還有一些這個在股市裡面的航海王天天在那邊衝來衝去的\n\n04:24.668 --> 04:38.736\n可是我們今天來看你們的活絡市場的目的已經達成了那至於到底大家的獲利的狀況大家也可以看到2021、2022、20232021整個的虧損是435億2022是304億2023這個是預估值事實上我也知道就是證交所給我最新的資料\n\n04:53.064 --> 05:21.598\n也是total加起來是291億也將近300億這是去年的資料好我們再來看好重點是當我們說這個其實整個是虧損的時候那麼交易所也給了我一個資料說啊沒有啊其實呢這個大部分是大戶虧損的比較多一般的散戶賺的比較多可是如果我們看overall的話\n\n05:22.830 --> 05:35.939\n可以看到整個的當沖交易統計這個是證交所給我在上面把它整理出來我們獲利的是52.93%虧損47%獲利233.5億虧損524.76億虧損的還是比較多虧損還是比較多一半一半看起來很公平一半賺一半賠\n\n05:51.585 --> 06:08.646\n但是我看到這個數據跟賭博有什麼不一樣?就是我拿個我這邊沒有那個一個錢幣對啊骰子還有六面啊然後我這個錢幣不是就一個對不對一個正面一個頭像一個那個非頭像\n\n06:10.014 --> 06:35.725\n那這跟賭博有什麼不一樣所以要繼續調降當沖的稅率唯一只是繼續維繫一個股市的榮景這個榮景也許是上升啦但是當它是下降趨勢的時候它只會更加深它的這個跌勢而已但是至少它的交易量是確實存在所以我就說這變成是政府當莊啦\n\n06:37.369 --> 07:04.048\n唯一最賺的就是政府啊雖然這個好像是手續費啊這個當沖的這個什麼手續費這些通都調降可是因為你殺進殺出殺進殺出所以我們這幾年我們這幾年的超收稅說主要都來自股市所以我想請問新的經管會主委您對於當沖稅率原來提出來要長達五年繼續調降你的看法是什麼\n\n07:05.067 --> 07:33.310\n謝謝委員剛剛提到就是說若從損益的角度來看當沖的話這個通常假設站在金管會立場他比較不會去從這個角度他會從整個交易的流動性增加還有價格發現還有他市場的效率性來看確實在我們當沖的時候這樣存在的這樣的一個市場的時候確實剛剛那些效果是比以前好的剛剛委員也提到就是說未來就是等於是我們的規模已經達到…如果你覺得這麼好乾脆永久卸條這樣囉\n\n07:34.932 --> 07:50.974\n這倒也不是這倒也不是就是說一件事情一定有它的正反兩面你階段性調降就階段性任務階段性已經達成了你們還不要給他調降他當然是有階段性任務才會說我延長再延長幾年如果這麼好你就全部把它改過來\n\n07:53.030 --> 08:17.472\n這部分的話就是說因為資本市場本來就有很多面向我們從資本市場監理的角度我們剛剛看到是這個面向剛剛委員你提到就是說比如說從投資者的獲利還有鼓勵所謂的投機這樣的角度那當然是有另外一個看法那我們只是說我們要提供意見陳同該委員提到我們過去這個公文已經給了財政部以後確實是財政部據我所知財政部覺得不夠\n\n08:18.172 --> 08:41.242\n還要讓你們提供更多的資料所以我們會再來跟財政部來協調其實在這一點我是比較支持財政部的立場因為一個稅制不應該而且你像我們通常一個階段性你一下就五年欸對所以說我覺得這部分我我們當然接下來有關各種面向我們會提供財政部很多的想法啦因為最後主政單位是他我們會再表達我們的看法對\n\n08:42.281 --> 09:09.460\n另外這個我已經講出我的立場我希望我希望你們能夠審慎的去研究因為這個你是新的主委你可以再做多一點瞭解不一定啊不一定原來的這個黃龜棚就一定要衰而且呢我覺得不管是跟我們覺得就是稅制應該不要去一直在懲罰薪資所得者\n\n09:10.200 --> 09:27.751\n然後一直鼓勵資本所得者還有就是他的這個降稅事實上他的階段性功能已經達成了應該適可而止另外一個就是大家也非常關切這個是在您還沒有就任之前在我們的司法法制委員會有做成決議\n\n09:29.392 --> 09:57.841\n我不知道你知不知道就是有關於這個保險你也是專家就是保險強制執行要訂出一個參考的規則這個我剛才也有其他的委員也有特別提到因為幾乎每一位名單不管是議員也好或者立委也好通通都接到相關的陳情跟服務案那有一些事上還蠻悲慘的我直接講我真的還有我的這個選民\n\n09:59.962 --> 10:26.921\n他哀求什麼他說能不能幫我保留30萬的最後的傷臟費用講到這樣子其實我真的很想幫忙啊所以我覺得當時這個整個法院做出來的這樣的一個決議其實沒有考慮到整個的保險市場裡面它的面向非常多然後投保的人裡面\n\n10:27.601 --> 10:50.986\n有一些真的可能是把他的錢藏在保險裡也確實但是有一些真的我們講說有薪資所得或者他的收入並不高但是呢他每一年每一年這樣子慢慢的就幫自己或者幫家人做一個投保可是因為這樣子他就整個保單都解約了所以我講就是說我的選民竟然有告訴我說能不能幫忙\n\n10:52.466 --> 11:08.364\n把他留一點點喪葬費用在那邊不要讓他全部解約很心酸所以我知道在司法法政委員會裡面他有一個決議然後要求你們要去訂定一個就是一個\n\n11:09.585 --> 11:22.096\n原則哪些可以排除或者一定金額那我現在看到媒體有講說是有10萬塊那我希望能夠適當的提高好不好因為我覺得10萬塊其實是很少的耶\n\n11:28.141 --> 11:40.732\n法務委員我們這個禮拜已經開過會了那保留的部分因為那個是解約金的金額每一件每一張啦但是如果是保險金額的話我們其實訂的比較高我們是訂100萬人壽保險契約\n\n11:46.236 --> 12:13.776\n人壽保險契約即是他即便解約的話他可以就是說有保險契約如果在一百萬的金額以下的話就建議他不予強制執行就是以一百萬如果是人壽保險的部分嘛是不是一百萬就不予強制執行讓他保留一個就是讓這些保護辛辛苦苦他至少能夠這種並不算是大額的保單讓他能夠\n\n12:15.237 --> 12:15.437\n下一位質詢請\n\n12:44.302 --> 12:45.461\n郭國文、郭昭薇\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.79,"end":28.423,"text":"謝謝主席我請我們主委請彭主委謝謝王委員好主委首先先恭喜你這也是老朋友謝謝但是我剛才也有聽到賴會員委員在詢問那就是你有沒有拜訪過我們召委還有就是各委員那昨天我有接到你的電話"},{"start":29.443,"end":49.696,"text":"因為確實昨天一整天我們所有的委員都被綁在議場上那我覺得你可能太客氣了啦那事實上好像經濟部長在上個禮拜就已經開始陸陸續續在拜訪了我所了解像內政部長也是當然內政部長他自己出身立法院"},{"start":50.256,"end":66.123,"text":"所以我覺得這個部分理數跟周到或者說你可能也太客氣了一些那當然以後就然後還有很多的事情大家可以再做這個交換意見主要呢我還是要特別提到有關我們的當沖的這個稅要不要繼續調降的問題"},{"start":71.525,"end":83.013,"text":"因為之前是財政部來做備詢我有特別提到而且我也特別表達我不贊成當沖稅率繼續的調降為什麼呢?因為前一陣子我們的主計處也公布了最新的貧富差距貧富差距事實上是擴大得非常非常多66.9倍"},{"start":97.743,"end":120.994,"text":"我們常常在講其實擴大貧富差距當然整個社會結構是其中之一但是我們的稅制其實也是非常關鍵的因素比如說我們要怎麼樣來調整、改善貧富差距的問題其實政府的工具有限其中一個就是稅"},{"start":121.894,"end":132.638,"text":"可是你今天想要比如說徵稅啦或者改變一些稅制真的非常非常的困難好那我們回過頭來其實如果我們的當中稅率繼續調降的話唯一的獲利者我老實講唯一的獲利者是政府"},{"start":139.6,"end":159.04,"text":"第一個機管會可以繼續的維持這個整個的交易的榮景我們待會可以看確實我們實施這個當沖稅率調降對半調降之後呢我們的這個交易確實增加了很多但是"},{"start":160.393,"end":186.983,"text":"但是這使得就是我們的這個整個稅制裡面越趨的是去鼓勵資本所得者而懲罰勞動所得者所以我個人覺得這個當沖稅要繼續調降而且你們一提就提五年我覺得蠻誇張的啦我真的覺得蠻誇張當然因為你是昨天才上任我真的覺得這個事情應該好好討論來我們看下一頁"},{"start":190.652,"end":203.497,"text":"財政部對這個事情事實上是有疑慮的感受得到因為他們對他們來講稅制要公平嘛量能課稅好再來看也就是說到底我們調降當沖稅率"},{"start":205.236,"end":224.456,"text":"有沒有這個活絡市場市場我們看到已經達成而且很高啊非常的活絡啊我們在2016年的時候平均的日均量不到1000億實施之後呢已經超過1000億1500億到今年1到4月份日均量5000億"},{"start":227.747,"end":242.804,"text":"請問一下我們還要再鼓勵什麼?我們還要活絡什麼?難道現在不夠活絡了嗎?那你就算你要繼續實施,你也應該再看一段時間啊。我覺得這才合理。下一頁。"},{"start":244.045,"end":262.846,"text":"重要的是像我這樣我那天就提出來我大概是非常非常少數做民意代表敢講說我不贊成當中稅率要繼續調降的因為我知道可能會得罪一些廣大的股民還有一些這個在股市裡面的航海王天天在那邊衝來衝去的"},{"start":264.668,"end":278.736,"text":"可是我們今天來看你們的活絡市場的目的已經達成了那至於到底大家的獲利的狀況大家也可以看到2021、2022、20232021整個的虧損是435億2022是304億2023這個是預估值事實上我也知道就是證交所給我最新的資料"},{"start":293.064,"end":321.598,"text":"也是total加起來是291億也將近300億這是去年的資料好我們再來看好重點是當我們說這個其實整個是虧損的時候那麼交易所也給了我一個資料說啊沒有啊其實呢這個大部分是大戶虧損的比較多一般的散戶賺的比較多可是如果我們看overall的話"},{"start":322.83,"end":335.939,"text":"可以看到整個的當沖交易統計這個是證交所給我在上面把它整理出來我們獲利的是52.93%虧損47%獲利233.5億虧損524.76億虧損的還是比較多虧損還是比較多一半一半看起來很公平一半賺一半賠"},{"start":351.585,"end":368.646,"text":"但是我看到這個數據跟賭博有什麼不一樣?就是我拿個我這邊沒有那個一個錢幣對啊骰子還有六面啊然後我這個錢幣不是就一個對不對一個正面一個頭像一個那個非頭像"},{"start":370.014,"end":395.725,"text":"那這跟賭博有什麼不一樣所以要繼續調降當沖的稅率唯一只是繼續維繫一個股市的榮景這個榮景也許是上升啦但是當它是下降趨勢的時候它只會更加深它的這個跌勢而已但是至少它的交易量是確實存在所以我就說這變成是政府當莊啦"},{"start":397.369,"end":424.048,"text":"唯一最賺的就是政府啊雖然這個好像是手續費啊這個當沖的這個什麼手續費這些通都調降可是因為你殺進殺出殺進殺出所以我們這幾年我們這幾年的超收稅說主要都來自股市所以我想請問新的經管會主委您對於當沖稅率原來提出來要長達五年繼續調降你的看法是什麼"},{"start":425.067,"end":453.31,"text":"謝謝委員剛剛提到就是說若從損益的角度來看當沖的話這個通常假設站在金管會立場他比較不會去從這個角度他會從整個交易的流動性增加還有價格發現還有他市場的效率性來看確實在我們當沖的時候這樣存在的這樣的一個市場的時候確實剛剛那些效果是比以前好的剛剛委員也提到就是說未來就是等於是我們的規模已經達到…如果你覺得這麼好乾脆永久卸條這樣囉"},{"start":454.932,"end":470.974,"text":"這倒也不是這倒也不是就是說一件事情一定有它的正反兩面你階段性調降就階段性任務階段性已經達成了你們還不要給他調降他當然是有階段性任務才會說我延長再延長幾年如果這麼好你就全部把它改過來"},{"start":473.03,"end":497.472,"text":"這部分的話就是說因為資本市場本來就有很多面向我們從資本市場監理的角度我們剛剛看到是這個面向剛剛委員你提到就是說比如說從投資者的獲利還有鼓勵所謂的投機這樣的角度那當然是有另外一個看法那我們只是說我們要提供意見陳同該委員提到我們過去這個公文已經給了財政部以後確實是財政部據我所知財政部覺得不夠"},{"start":498.172,"end":521.242,"text":"還要讓你們提供更多的資料所以我們會再來跟財政部來協調其實在這一點我是比較支持財政部的立場因為一個稅制不應該而且你像我們通常一個階段性你一下就五年欸對所以說我覺得這部分我我們當然接下來有關各種面向我們會提供財政部很多的想法啦因為最後主政單位是他我們會再表達我們的看法對"},{"start":522.281,"end":549.46,"text":"另外這個我已經講出我的立場我希望我希望你們能夠審慎的去研究因為這個你是新的主委你可以再做多一點瞭解不一定啊不一定原來的這個黃龜棚就一定要衰而且呢我覺得不管是跟我們覺得就是稅制應該不要去一直在懲罰薪資所得者"},{"start":550.2,"end":567.751,"text":"然後一直鼓勵資本所得者還有就是他的這個降稅事實上他的階段性功能已經達成了應該適可而止另外一個就是大家也非常關切這個是在您還沒有就任之前在我們的司法法制委員會有做成決議"},{"start":569.392,"end":597.841,"text":"我不知道你知不知道就是有關於這個保險你也是專家就是保險強制執行要訂出一個參考的規則這個我剛才也有其他的委員也有特別提到因為幾乎每一位名單不管是議員也好或者立委也好通通都接到相關的陳情跟服務案那有一些事上還蠻悲慘的我直接講我真的還有我的這個選民"},{"start":599.962,"end":626.921,"text":"他哀求什麼他說能不能幫我保留30萬的最後的傷臟費用講到這樣子其實我真的很想幫忙啊所以我覺得當時這個整個法院做出來的這樣的一個決議其實沒有考慮到整個的保險市場裡面它的面向非常多然後投保的人裡面"},{"start":627.601,"end":650.986,"text":"有一些真的可能是把他的錢藏在保險裡也確實但是有一些真的我們講說有薪資所得或者他的收入並不高但是呢他每一年每一年這樣子慢慢的就幫自己或者幫家人做一個投保可是因為這樣子他就整個保單都解約了所以我講就是說我的選民竟然有告訴我說能不能幫忙"},{"start":652.466,"end":668.364,"text":"把他留一點點喪葬費用在那邊不要讓他全部解約很心酸所以我知道在司法法政委員會裡面他有一個決議然後要求你們要去訂定一個就是一個"},{"start":669.585,"end":682.096,"text":"原則哪些可以排除或者一定金額那我現在看到媒體有講說是有10萬塊那我希望能夠適當的提高好不好因為我覺得10萬塊其實是很少的耶"},{"start":688.141,"end":700.732,"text":"法務委員我們這個禮拜已經開過會了那保留的部分因為那個是解約金的金額每一件每一張啦但是如果是保險金額的話我們其實訂的比較高我們是訂100萬人壽保險契約"},{"start":706.236,"end":733.776,"text":"人壽保險契約即是他即便解約的話他可以就是說有保險契約如果在一百萬的金額以下的話就建議他不予強制執行就是以一百萬如果是人壽保險的部分嘛是不是一百萬就不予強制執行讓他保留一個就是讓這些保護辛辛苦苦他至少能夠這種並不算是大額的保單讓他能夠"},{"start":735.237,"end":735.437,"text":"下一位質詢請"},{"start":764.302,"end":765.461,"text":"郭國文、郭昭薇"}]}}}}