{"id":152800,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152800","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ec526bb9f1bdce9d4a84b740545004896fc1a8a999f94a213b43bbf2d64d2017686694a71afc77eb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳培瑜","委員發言時間":"11:00:06 - 11:15:42","影片長度":"00:15:36","會議時間":"2024-05-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：邀請文化部部長李遠列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【5月22日及23日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-22","duration":936,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-13"},"end_time":"2024-05-22T11:15:42+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-22T11:00:06+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":468,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（11時）謝謝主席，有請部長，謝謝。"],["主席：有請部長。"],["陳委員培瑜：部長早安，先謝謝我從小讀書時的偶像小野部長，願意接下這個非常辛苦的工作。在這之前，我想先送部長一本書，它已經絕版了，所以部長一定要好好保存。","這本書的書名就叫做《如果我是文化部長》，因為你現在已經是文化部長了，所以你可以把「如果」這兩個字蓋掉，你就是文化部長了。你知道這本書多棒嗎？它是一本法國出版，後來翻譯成臺灣中文的童書。你現在也是爺爺了，我相信你一定有跟你的孫子共讀。我想要分享這本書的其中幾頁，讓部長知道您的責任有多麼重大。甚至您在我心目中所有部會重要的排名，絕對在前三名，就是這本書所要說的。","這本書裡面有一段話是這麼說的，就是我投影片上所顯示的「如果我是文化部長，我會盡力向我的同僚說明支持藝術和文化有多麼重要。他們也一定會用心地聽我說。但是，在表決預算的時候，他們肯定會宣稱有其他更重要與更緊急的項目得優先處理，比如說醫療、工程、經濟和國防。」","部長，這是您未來的處境，它裡面就談到了我們要認識建築、我們要認識戲劇、我們要認識各式各樣的文化藝術。其中有一個來自於部長您跟我都非常擅長的專業，叫做出版業，它說像是長篇小說、短篇小說集、詩集、論文集跟漫畫，全部都會變成禁書。我只截取了其中的一頁，也就是說當大家都不再認同文化工作的重要性，所有東西就會從這個世界上消失。","這本書等一下我會送給您，雖然它已經絕版了，但是我想要跟部長談一談，不管是所有剛剛委員問的很多很細緻的工作，或者是很多輿論的發酵，我相信這都會是您接下來非常困難而且重要的挑戰。所以我要再一次以讀者的身分，先謝謝部長願意承擔這一份非常艱困的工作。","下一頁是文化部的組織圖，我想部長應該已經了然於心。在過去一年當中，我們辦公室雖然只有遞補了一年的時間，但是我們花了很多力氣在跟文化部的非常多政策，跟相關的預算對話。其中還包含這個我覺得是最困難的，它應該是所謂的深水區，水很深或是在很深的地方，大家不敢動，不知道怎麼動，不知道該怎麼做，就是電商書價折扣惡戰。這件事情我相信部長知道了，我辦了公聽會，也辦了非常多的座談。甚至文化部之前也邀相關的業者，一起喝咖啡討論可行的方案，但是目前沒有答案。","我們也談了臺語團體，剛剛有兩位委員也都談了，我們就不再多說。但是臺語相關的政策跟資源，在文化部是大家很多很多很多的期待。不管是活動、不管是演講、不管是相關預算或者是跟教育部的跨部會合作，都需要部長您再多多費心。","還有文創發展司在談的文創園區的定位，部長，我覺得之後你也會遇到很大的困境，是來自這五大文創園區各自的商業發展機制。他各自跟民間機制的合作，他的定位或者是他怎麼落地跟各地方縣市政府合作，甚至他可以鼓勵年輕人進駐，或者是協助已經發展到一個階段的廠商。也就是他有商業的層面，他有文化的層面，他還有地方發展的層面，部長，有勞了！","接下來，下一頁還有關於表演藝術的部分，這是在藝發司。臺灣有東尼獎了，在2019年的時候就有多位民間表演藝術聯盟團體，呼籲文化部應該要成立自己的臺灣東尼獎。很可惜的是在2024年，臺灣確實有臺灣東尼獎，但是是落在臺北市。文化部的高度，目前我們還沒有看到，我們知道文化部當年有召開相關會議，但是沒有後續消息。","談到臺灣，部長您在上任的時候，第一份新聞稿說的，你要推動兒少文化幣這件事情，也就是說我可以看得出來部長對兒少是相當重視的。而在史部長任內也成立了相關的兒童台，單台頻道。可是關於兒童自製節目這件事情，部長未來也絕對會是千頭萬緒。部長，您的幕僚都可以請回，因為他們今天都不用幫你回答問題。我沒有要逐一跟部長討論這麼多細緻的問題，我只是要讓部長知道，你有千頭萬緒，你有非常非常多事情需要解決，而這些都只是我們辦公室在去年所追蹤的題目而已。","還有關於臺灣的小孩可不可以唱臺灣自己的兒歌，甚至在所謂的非商業營業空間，像是學校或者是社團活動，如果要播放臺灣自己的歌，很多爸媽甚至收到學校通知，請不要把孩子們用臺灣的歌，或是臺灣兒歌唱跳的影片上傳到YouTube，因為可能會被相關的版權團體做出控告。這是可能啦！但是會不會就因為這樣，如同部長剛剛您被其他委員質詢到關於短影音的問題，關於文化統戰的問題，部長，這也是千頭萬緒。","接下來，我們發現文化部甚至在文化平權會報裡面沒有青年跟兒少諮詢代表。這件事情可能您的幕僚不會在第一時間跟您說，因為我們發現文化部在這件事情上的概念非常非常的，我不要說落後，非常非常的不與時俱進，對於青少的這個部分，文化部的積極度確實很不足。我們也希望文化部之後在相關的諮詢委員會裡面必須要有兒少代表。我相信這件事情是很多委員都會一起關心跟重視的，沒有相關文化平權跟兒少的諮詢機制，其實都沒有辦法讓我們看出現在的青少年或兒少代表，或者是更多的兒少他們的需求。而一旦部長您要推往下到13歲的文化幣，就更不能沒有他們的聲音。我相信部長一定知道，進入國中之後，所有的小孩都被綁在學校裡面寫參考書、寫考卷，這個是不爭的事實。而一旦文化幣到了孩子們的手上，他們真的想花，會不會也沒地方可以花，沒有消費標的可以選擇？我想這個部分我們辦公室會繼續跟文化部對話。","下一頁是關於AI這件事情，臺灣國科會甚至想要做自己的版本。我相信政府的政策有它的相關考量，我不予置評，但是我想問，光是AI到上上個月吧，上個禮拜又出現更新版的AI。它是從影像，甚至它跟你對話，它教你解數學題。我相信現場的葛博士應該非常清楚，一旦臺灣要做自己的AI模型，相關的侵權問題將如何解決？目前我們在文化部也沒有看到相關進度。","還有文策院所有的活動，所有這些，還有好多好多的細節需要討論。到國際展場上如何更實質的拓展我們的文化外交，透過版權交易、透過活動、透過很多的對話，如何讓國外這些出版商願意回頭來看看，臺灣也有很棒的出版原創作品。","我講了這麼多都沒有要部長回答，最後這個問題很重要，部長，你認為現在臺灣文化環境最缺乏、最需要、最迫切的是什麼？說實話，這題我也不敢奢望您回答，我自己都不敢回答。所以部長我想問，在您的想像底下，臺灣的文化環境，你希望在你的任內打造出什麼樣的樣態？你有什麼樣的想像，或者是你希望推動什麼樣的政策或法案，或者是其他更多公共對話來達成您的想像？","我覺得臺灣必須面對的現實就是，在有網路的時代，不管全球化的商業經濟發展是往前或是後退，但是在全球化資訊化時代底下，部長您剛剛說的，要以臺灣本土的創作為傲這件事情，其實難度相對的非常非常高。那部長您如何想像？我給你30秒想像一下，但是在這之前我想先幫部長回答剛剛有一個委員問的議題，也許部長您就可以稍微想像一下，為什麼我要這麼說？剛剛洪孟楷委員在一開始的時候問您，有沒有很多電影它是票房不好，但是後續效果延伸很好的？我有答案，就是像「少女與戰車」這一類的動畫電影，而且我本人就被我小孩邀請，跟他一起走進電影院。這部電影多冷門，現場連葛博士都沒有聽過，叫做「少女與戰車」，它的動畫非常非常非常的……怎麼樣？大家覺得很不紅，可是它後續IP效應非常非常非常好，你看連那個阿宅葛博士都不清楚。像這樣的東西，臺灣有沒有機會做？我會說有，臺灣有非常多的年輕人想要投入動畫製作，而動畫製作可能在過去不是部長您所熟悉的，那您如何想像？","還有剛剛有一個委員問到關於投資抵減的部分，我也可以幫您一併說，順便告訴你現在的困境。目前的投資抵減，要有相關完整的劇本才可以做投資抵減，可是在很多文化創意產業，它光是初期的醞釀成本，我相信部長一定非常清楚，你自己悶在家裡寫稿的時候，沒有人會給你錢，你悶在家裡畫畫創作的時候，沒有人會給你錢。全部都是出版品完成之後，你才會拿到稿費或相關的費用。所以初期的醞釀這件事情，文化部願不願意回頭再去看關於投資抵減的部分？","我的時間用完了，可不可以再給部長30秒簡單回答一下？我剛剛說了這麼多千頭萬緒的問題，部長您如何想像在您的任內去促使這些事情？"],["李部長遠：我覺得我們戰後嬰兒潮世代，在升學主義的成長中，不能上體育課、不能上音樂課、不能上美術課……"],["陳委員培瑜：我們連寫作課都沒有。"],["李部長遠：所以基本上臺灣的教育是非常失敗的，孕育了我們這一整代的人對藝術不重視，它也會影響到我們對文化的投資跟觀念……"],["陳委員培瑜：還有消費，因為不重視我們就不會去消費。"],["李部長遠：你的童書裡面講到，當你要推動文化的時候，它是一個看不到的東西，最後就會把錢擺在經濟、擺在民生、擺在一切的東西上，但是這樣的結果就會創造出一個對文化漠視的時代，然後也完全對文化抱著很輕蔑的態度。你問我未來在我有限的時間內，我也不曉得我會做多久……"],["陳委員培瑜：你會做很久的，部長，我們都支持你，你會做很久的。"],["李部長遠：在我有限的時間內，我希望把文化變成一個大家都覺得蠻時髦的或者蠻流行的東西。我做的第一步就是去找過去曾經很同情我們做紙風車集團的企業大老闆，希望他們能夠拿錢出來，我們不是有一個方案是企業可以投資文化幣嗎？"],["陳委員培瑜：對，可是我剛剛說，回頭你要進行相關修法，光是初期的這件事情，很多大老闆會看不懂。我有一個故事只能私下跟部長說，很多大企業老闆對於東西的現金迴轉率，他的想像可能是三個月，可是我們很多文化產品回收不會在三個月。我想文策院董事長非常清楚，不會在三個月內就有相關回收。部長您繼續，謝謝。"],["李部長遠：大概就是讓他覺得投資文化不是一個，我們從那個抵減稅或者是說ESG這種地方給他得到立即的利益之外，他打從心裡覺得這個文化很重要，他喜歡音樂、他喜歡美術、他喜歡電影，是打從心裡面有一種感染力。可是我剛剛講過，我們這一整代的人都沒有文化，我們這一整代的人……"],["陳委員培瑜：部長，你說的是你那一代，還是我這一代？"],["李部長遠：我這一代，我不敢講你這一代。"],["陳委員培瑜：部長您現在……"],["李部長遠：我70歲。"],["陳委員培瑜：我46歲，我的身邊很多好朋友其實他們可能賺的錢絕對都比我多，我以前就只是一個講師，但確實他們願意花在在地文化消費的比例是低的。沒有錯，他們可能甚至願意送小孩去補英文、補才藝、送小孩出國，但是你叫他多買一本繪本放在家裡，他會跟你說32頁很快就看完了，是要買了幹嘛！部長請繼續。"],["李部長遠：所以你講到這種童書，要父母親自己非常愛童書，他才會去買童書，否則他就不會買童書。同樣的道理，我們一整代人對文化有點輕蔑的感覺時，他根本不覺得值得投資。所以我覺得我要做的事情就是要讓真的擁有資源的人，比如企業家，他願意把他多餘的一些利潤拿出來投資在文化上幫助整個社會，他會覺得很值得。他打從心裡喜歡這個東西，我們要用文化感染他，這是我真的想到我可以直接做的部分。"],["陳委員培瑜：謝謝部長，你剛剛講到產業的投資很重要，相關的法規我們後續可以再討論。小小回應一下，部長您剛開始的時候有說，你有去參觀了一個韓國的繪本展。其實韓國的繪本在這幾年之所以有這麼強大的輸出力量，是因為他們政府在投資抵減做對了一件事情。相關的事情我們辦公室會再跟部長分享，今天謝謝主席，也謝謝部長。部長，未來我們一起加油，這本書絕對會送給你。"],["李部長遠：謝謝你。"],["陳委員培瑜：我要再一次強調它已經絕版了，已經絕版了！召委如果也想要，我努力想辦法從二手書市場或再去出版社要。這本書透過反諷法讓我們知道一件事情，就是文化確實如空氣一般，我們很多人都沒有感覺。這本書我真的保存得非常好，它甚至後面附了一張海報，如果到最後現場都沒有人了，只剩下演唱家，那其他人去哪裡了？去滑手機、去看Netflix，喔！不是，去各式各樣的平台。然後他故意嘲諷了，做了一個文化禁止日，這一天所有人都不能參與文化活動，可是我們以為文化活動是什麼？是不要進劇場嗎？不要聽歌嗎？不要看劇嗎？很抱歉！各位，如果禁止文化日那天真的發生，我們連衣服都沒得穿，因為連衣服都是一個文化。臺北有時裝設計週，對嗎？所以謝謝部長，我們未來一起努力，謝謝主席。"],["李部長遠：謝謝，我會把你的書放在我辦公室裡天天看著。"],["陳委員培瑜：一定要，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝，謝謝陳培瑜委員。","我這裡宣告一下，因為現在已經11點多了，所以不好意思，對吳春城委員不好意思，我們在郭昱晴委員質詢完休息5分鐘，抱歉，謝謝。","我們接下來請郭昱晴委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":154,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-13","speakers":["林宜瑾","萬美玲","柯志恩","洪孟楷","羅廷瑋","葛如鈞","陳秀寳","張雅琳","陳培瑜","郭昱晴","吳春城","范雲","葉元之","吳沛憶","蘇巧慧","林倩綺","楊瓊瓔","麥玉珍","高金素梅","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","張智倫","陳冠廷","林楚茵"],"page_start":85,"meetingDate":["2024-05-22"],"gazette_id":"1135001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135001_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請文化部部長李遠列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1135001_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"152800","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152800","tool":"pyannote","id":"152800-pyannote"},"job_id":"9qFCqzEGbxnY2Ljl","queued_at":"2024-05-30 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490.453, \"text\": \"還有文策院所有的活動所有這些還有好多好多的細節需要討論到國際展場上如何更實質的拓展文化外交透過版權交易透過活動透過很多的對話如何讓國外這些出版商願意回頭來看看台灣也有很棒的出版原創作品好下一頁\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 472.456, \"end\": 472.576, \"score\": 0.671}, {\"word\": \"文\", \"start\": 472.576, \"end\": 472.757, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"策\", \"start\": 472.757, \"end\": 472.937, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 472.937, \"end\": 473.237, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 473.237, \"end\": 473.397, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 473.397, \"end\": 473.477, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 473.477, \"end\": 473.597, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"活\", \"start\": 473.597, \"end\": 474.018, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 474.018, \"end\": 474.178, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 474.178, \"end\": 474.458, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 474.458, \"end\": 474.839, 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00:00:42,555\n部長早安先謝謝我從小的時候讀的書的偶像小野部長願意接下這個非常辛苦的工作那在這之前呢我想要先送部長一本書他已經絕版了所以部長你一定要好好保存這本書的書名就叫做如果我是文化部長但是因為你現在已經是文化部長了所以你可以把如果\n\n3\n00:00:44,157 --> 00:01:11,098\n這兩個字蓋掉你就是文化部長了但是你知道這本書多棒嗎它是一本法國出版後來翻譯成台灣中文的童書那你現在也是爺爺了我相信你一定有在跟你的孫子共讀喔那這本書那這本書呢我想要分享其中幾頁讓部長知道您的責任有多麼重大甚至您在我心目中所有部會重要的排名絕對在前三名就是這本書所要說的來下一頁\n\n4\n00:01:12,924 --> 00:01:30,553\n好下一頁好下一頁這本書裡面呢有一段話他是這麼說的就是我頭影片上所顯示的如果我是文化部長我會盡力向我的同僚說明支持藝術和文化有多麼的重要他們也一定會用心的聽我說\n\n5\n00:01:31,773 --> 00:01:42,262\n但是如果在表決預算的時候他們就會開始宣稱有其他更重要更緊急的項目得優先處理例如醫療工程經濟跟國防部長這是您未來的處境他其中裡面就談到了我們要認識建築我們要認識戲劇我們要認識各式各樣的文化藝術其中有一個來自於部長您跟我都非常擅長的專業叫做出版業\n\n6\n00:01:58,655 --> 00:02:16,783\n他說像是長篇小說啦短篇小說集、詩集、論文集跟漫畫全部都會變成禁書那我只擷取了其中的一頁也就是說當大家都不再認同文化工作的重要性所有東西就會從這個世界上消失所以部長我想要從這裡這本書等一下我會送給您\n\n7\n00:02:19,424 --> 00:02:40,302\n雖然他已經絕版了齁但是我想跟部長談一談不管是所有剛剛委員問的很多很細緻的工作或者是很多輿論的發酵我相信部長這都是會是您接下來非常困難而且重要的挑戰所以我要再一次以讀者的身份先謝謝部長願意承擔的這一份非常艱困的工作來下一頁\n\n8\n00:02:41,443 --> 00:03:06,160\n這是文化部的組織圖我想部長你應該已經了然於心下一頁在過去一年當中我們辦公室雖然只有地補了一年的時間但是我們花了很多力氣在跟文化部的非常多政策跟相關的預算對話其中還包含這個我覺得是最困難的它應該是所謂的深水區水很深或是在很深的地方大家不敢動\n\n9\n00:03:07,020 --> 00:03:07,060\n下一頁。\n\n10\n00:03:25,470 --> 00:03:45,642\n我們也談了台灣台語團體剛剛有兩位委員都都都談了我們就不再多說但是台語相關的政策跟資源在文化部是大家很多很多很多的期待不管是活動不管是演講不管是相關預算或者是跟教育部的跨部會合作都需要部長您再多多費心下演\n\n11\n00:03:46,662 --> 00:04:15,140\n還有文創發展司裏面在談的文創園區的定位部長我覺得之後你也會遇到很大的困境是來自這五大文創園區他各自的商業發展機制他各自跟民間機制的合作或者是他的定位或者是他怎麼落地跟各地方縣市政府合作甚至他可以鼓勵年輕人進駐或者是協助已經發展到一個階段的廠商也就是他有商業的層面他有文化的層面他還有地方發展的層面\n\n12\n00:04:15,661 --> 00:04:16,851\n部長有勞了接下來下一頁\n\n13\n00:04:19,483 --> 00:04:48,590\n還有關於表演藝術的部分這是在議法司台灣有東尼獎了在2019年的時候就有多位民間表演藝術聯盟的團體呼籲文化部應該成立自己的台灣東尼獎可是很可惜的是下一頁很可惜的是在2024年台灣確實有台灣東尼獎但是是落在台北市文化部的高度目前我們還沒有看到我們知道文化部當年有召開相關會議但是沒有後續消息\n\n14\n00:04:49,150 --> 00:05:09,493\n下一頁談到台灣部長您在上任的時候第一份新聞稿說的你要推動兒少文化幣這件事情也就是說我可以看得出來部長對兒少是相當重視的而在時部長任內也成立了相關的兒童台好單台頻道那可是關於兒童自治節目這件事情部長\n\n15\n00:05:10,114 --> 00:05:10,674\n未來也絕對會是千頭萬緒\n\n16\n00:05:29,643 --> 00:05:40,767\n還有關於臺灣的小孩可不可以唱臺灣自己的兒歌甚至在所謂的非商業營業空間像是學校或者是社團活動如果要播放臺灣自己的歌很多爸媽甚至被學校收到通知請不要把孩子們用臺灣的歌或是臺灣的兒歌唱跳的影片上傳到YouTube因為可能會被相關的版權團體做出控告這是可能\n\n17\n00:05:56,773 --> 00:06:21,531\n會不會就因為這樣如同部長剛剛您被其他委員質詢到關於短影音的問題關於文化統戰的問題部長這也是千頭萬緒接下來我們發現文化部甚至在文化平權會報裡面沒有青年跟兒少諮詢代表這件事情部長可能您的同您的幕僚不會在第一時間跟您說因為我們發現文化部在這件事情上的概念非常非常的\n\n18\n00:06:22,812 --> 00:06:48,887\n我不要說落後,非常非常的不與時俱進對於青少的這個部分文化部的積極度確實很不足我們也希望文化部之後在相關的諮詢委員會裡面必須要兒少代表我相信這件事情是很多委員都會一起關心跟重視的沒有相關文化平權跟兒少的諮詢機制這些其實都沒有辦法讓我們看出現在的青少年或者是兒少代表\n\n19\n00:07:08,650 --> 00:07:15,179\n而一旦文化幣到了孩子們的手上他們真的想花會不會也沒地方可以花沒有消費標的可以選擇好我想這個部分也會我們辦公室會繼續跟文化部對話再下一頁\n\n20\n00:07:22,947 --> 00:07:49,715\n好,關於AI這件事情台灣國科會甚至想要做自己的版本我相信政府的政策有他的相關考量我不予置評但是我想問光是AI到上一個上個月吧上個禮拜又出現更新版的AI他是從影像甚至他跟你對話他教你解數學題我相信現場的葛博士應該非常清楚而一旦台灣要做自己的AI模型相關的侵權問題將如何解決目前我們在文化部也沒有看到相關進度好,下一頁\n\n21\n00:07:52,456 --> 00:08:10,453\n還有文策院所有的活動所有這些還有好多好多的細節需要討論到國際展場上如何更實質的拓展文化外交透過版權交易透過活動透過很多的對話如何讓國外這些出版商願意回頭來看看台灣也有很棒的出版原創作品好下一頁\n\n22\n00:08:11,974 --> 00:08:12,054\n下一頁\n\n23\n00:08:26,829 --> 00:08:36,796\n所以部長我想問在您的想像底下臺灣的文化環境你希望在你的任內打造出什麼樣的樣態你有什麼樣的想像或者是你希望推動什麼樣的政策或者是法案或者是其他更多公共的對話來達成您的想像還有我覺得臺灣必須要面對的現實就是在有網路的時代不管全球化的商業經濟發展是往前或是後退\n\n24\n00:08:51,747 --> 00:09:21,487\n但是全球化資訊化時代底下部長您剛剛說的要以台灣本土的創作為奧這件事情其實難度相對的非常非常高那部長如何想像但是在部長我給你30秒想像一下但是在這之前我想要先幫部長回答剛剛有一個委員問的議題也許部長您就可以稍微想像一下為什麼我要這麼說剛剛洪孟凱委員在一剛開始的時候問您說有沒有很多電影他是票房不好但是後續效果延伸\n\n25\n00:09:21,527 --> 00:09:21,587\n獲得獎金\n\n26\n00:09:42,932 --> 00:10:02,930\n怎麼樣大家覺得很不紅可是他後續IP效應非常非常非常好你看連那個阿宅葛博士都不清楚像這樣的東西台灣有沒有機會做我會說有台灣有非常多的年輕人想要投入動畫製作而動畫製作可能在過去不是部長您所熟悉的那您如何想像\n\n27\n00:10:03,510 --> 00:10:22,313\n還有剛剛有一個委員問到關於投資抵檢的部分我也可以幫您一併說順便告訴你現在的困境目前的投資抵檢說要有相關完整的劇本才可以做投資抵檢可是在很多文化創意產業它光是初期的醞釀成本我相信部長你一定非常清楚你自己悶在家裡寫稿的時候沒有人會給你錢\n\n28\n00:10:23,394 --> 00:10:32,237\n您們在家裡畫畫創作的時候沒有人會給你錢全部都是出版品完成之後你才會拿到稿費或相關的費用所以初期的醞釀這件事情文化部願不願回頭再去看關於投資理解的部分我的時間用完了可不可以再給部長30秒簡單回答一下我剛說了這麼多千頭萬緒的問題部長您如何想像在您的任內去促使這些事情\n\n29\n00:10:47,338 --> 00:11:02,879\n我覺得我們上後嬰兒潮世代在升學主義的成長中不能不能上體育課不能上音樂課不能上美術課所以我們連寫作課都沒有部長對所以基本上台灣的教育是非常失敗的\n\n30\n00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:31,951\n與我們這一整代的人對藝術不重視他也會影響到我們對文化的投資跟觀念還有消費因為不重視我們就不去消費你的童書裡面講說當你要推動文化的時候它是一個看不到的東西最後就會把錢擺在經濟擺在民生擺在一切東西但是這樣的結果就是會創造出一整個時代對文化漠視的時代然後也完全對文化抱著很輕蔑的態度\n\n31\n00:11:33,803 --> 00:11:50,119\n那我覺得你問我說未來在我有限的時間內我也不曉得我會做多久在我有限的時間內我會希望把文化變成是一個大家都覺得是一個\n\n32\n00:11:52,659 --> 00:11:56,783\n對,可是我剛剛說嘛可是回頭你要相關修法進行就是光是初期這件事情很多大老闆會看不懂\n\n33\n00:12:34,164 --> 00:12:55,537\n大概就是讓他覺得投資文化不是一個我們從那個抵減稅或者是說ESG這種地方給他得到利益之外他打從心裡覺得這個文化很重要他喜歡音樂他喜歡美術他喜歡電影是打從心裡面有一種感染力可是我剛剛講過我們這一整代的人都沒有文化\n\n34\n00:12:56,317 --> 00:12:57,038\n拜託你說的是你那一代還是我這一代?\n\n35\n00:12:57,038 --> 00:13:02,741\n我這一代阿我不敢講你這一代阿我70歲阿我46歲我的身邊很多好朋友其實他們可能賺的錢絕對都比我多我以前就只是一個講師但確實他們願意花在在地文化消費的比例是低的沒有錯他們可能甚至願意送小孩去補英文補才藝送小孩出國但是你叫他多買一本繪本放在家他會跟你說32頁很快就看完了是要買了幹嘛這樣\n\n36\n00:13:26,817 --> 00:13:44,849\n所以你講到這種童書要父母親自己非常愛童書他才會去買童書或者他就不會買童書同樣道理我們一整代人對文化有點欺滅的感覺的時候他根本不覺得值得投資嘛所以我覺得我要做的事情就是要讓\n\n37\n00:13:46,294 --> 00:13:46,454\n：培瑜\n\n38\n00:14:53,374 --> 00:15:20,553\n如果到最後現場都沒有人了只是要演唱家其他人去哪裡了去滑手機去看Netflix不是去各式各樣的平台然後他故意嘲諷了做一個文化禁止日這一天所有人都不能參與文化活動可是我們以為文化活動是什麼是不要進劇場嗎不要聽歌嗎不要看劇嗎很抱歉各位如果禁止文化日那天真的發生我們連衣服都沒得穿因為連衣服\n\n39\n00:15:22,054 --> 00:15:22,154\n謝謝陳培瑜\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n89\t830\t陳培瑜委員好謝謝主席那有請部長謝謝有請部長\n20663\t42555\t部長早安先謝謝我從小的時候讀的書的偶像小野部長願意接下這個非常辛苦的工作那在這之前呢我想要先送部長一本書他已經絕版了所以部長你一定要好好保存這本書的書名就叫做如果我是文化部長但是因為你現在已經是文化部長了所以你可以把如果\n44157\t71098\t這兩個字蓋掉你就是文化部長了但是你知道這本書多棒嗎它是一本法國出版後來翻譯成台灣中文的童書那你現在也是爺爺了我相信你一定有在跟你的孫子共讀喔那這本書那這本書呢我想要分享其中幾頁讓部長知道您的責任有多麼重大甚至您在我心目中所有部會重要的排名絕對在前三名就是這本書所要說的來下一頁\n72924\t90553\t好下一頁好下一頁這本書裡面呢有一段話他是這麼說的就是我頭影片上所顯示的如果我是文化部長我會盡力向我的同僚說明支持藝術和文化有多麼的重要他們也一定會用心的聽我說\n91773\t102262\t但是如果在表決預算的時候他們就會開始宣稱有其他更重要更緊急的項目得優先處理例如醫療工程經濟跟國防部長這是您未來的處境他其中裡面就談到了我們要認識建築我們要認識戲劇我們要認識各式各樣的文化藝術其中有一個來自於部長您跟我都非常擅長的專業叫做出版業\n118655\t136783\t他說像是長篇小說啦短篇小說集、詩集、論文集跟漫畫全部都會變成禁書那我只擷取了其中的一頁也就是說當大家都不再認同文化工作的重要性所有東西就會從這個世界上消失所以部長我想要從這裡這本書等一下我會送給您\n139424\t160302\t雖然他已經絕版了齁但是我想跟部長談一談不管是所有剛剛委員問的很多很細緻的工作或者是很多輿論的發酵我相信部長這都是會是您接下來非常困難而且重要的挑戰所以我要再一次以讀者的身份先謝謝部長願意承擔的這一份非常艱困的工作來下一頁\n161443\t186160\t這是文化部的組織圖我想部長你應該已經了然於心下一頁在過去一年當中我們辦公室雖然只有地補了一年的時間但是我們花了很多力氣在跟文化部的非常多政策跟相關的預算對話其中還包含這個我覺得是最困難的它應該是所謂的深水區水很深或是在很深的地方大家不敢動\n187020\t187060\t下一頁。\n205470\t225642\t我們也談了台灣台語團體剛剛有兩位委員都都都談了我們就不再多說但是台語相關的政策跟資源在文化部是大家很多很多很多的期待不管是活動不管是演講不管是相關預算或者是跟教育部的跨部會合作都需要部長您再多多費心下演\n226662\t255140\t還有文創發展司裏面在談的文創園區的定位部長我覺得之後你也會遇到很大的困境是來自這五大文創園區他各自的商業發展機制他各自跟民間機制的合作或者是他的定位或者是他怎麼落地跟各地方縣市政府合作甚至他可以鼓勵年輕人進駐或者是協助已經發展到一個階段的廠商也就是他有商業的層面他有文化的層面他還有地方發展的層面\n255661\t256851\t部長有勞了接下來下一頁\n259483\t288590\t還有關於表演藝術的部分這是在議法司台灣有東尼獎了在2019年的時候就有多位民間表演藝術聯盟的團體呼籲文化部應該成立自己的台灣東尼獎可是很可惜的是下一頁很可惜的是在2024年台灣確實有台灣東尼獎但是是落在台北市文化部的高度目前我們還沒有看到我們知道文化部當年有召開相關會議但是沒有後續消息\n289150\t309493\t下一頁談到台灣部長您在上任的時候第一份新聞稿說的你要推動兒少文化幣這件事情也就是說我可以看得出來部長對兒少是相當重視的而在時部長任內也成立了相關的兒童台好單台頻道那可是關於兒童自治節目這件事情部長\n310114\t310674\t未來也絕對會是千頭萬緒\n329643\t340767\t還有關於臺灣的小孩可不可以唱臺灣自己的兒歌甚至在所謂的非商業營業空間像是學校或者是社團活動如果要播放臺灣自己的歌很多爸媽甚至被學校收到通知請不要把孩子們用臺灣的歌或是臺灣的兒歌唱跳的影片上傳到YouTube因為可能會被相關的版權團體做出控告這是可能\n356773\t381531\t會不會就因為這樣如同部長剛剛您被其他委員質詢到關於短影音的問題關於文化統戰的問題部長這也是千頭萬緒接下來我們發現文化部甚至在文化平權會報裡面沒有青年跟兒少諮詢代表這件事情部長可能您的同您的幕僚不會在第一時間跟您說因為我們發現文化部在這件事情上的概念非常非常的\n382812\t408887\t我不要說落後,非常非常的不與時俱進對於青少的這個部分文化部的積極度確實很不足我們也希望文化部之後在相關的諮詢委員會裡面必須要兒少代表我相信這件事情是很多委員都會一起關心跟重視的沒有相關文化平權跟兒少的諮詢機制這些其實都沒有辦法讓我們看出現在的青少年或者是兒少代表\n409087\t428490\t﹏﹏\n428650\t435179\t而一旦文化幣到了孩子們的手上他們真的想花會不會也沒地方可以花沒有消費標的可以選擇好我想這個部分也會我們辦公室會繼續跟文化部對話再下一頁\n442947\t469715\t好,關於AI這件事情台灣國科會甚至想要做自己的版本我相信政府的政策有他的相關考量我不予置評但是我想問光是AI到上一個上個月吧上個禮拜又出現更新版的AI他是從影像甚至他跟你對話他教你解數學題我相信現場的葛博士應該非常清楚而一旦台灣要做自己的AI模型相關的侵權問題將如何解決目前我們在文化部也沒有看到相關進度好,下一頁\n472456\t490453\t還有文策院所有的活動所有這些還有好多好多的細節需要討論到國際展場上如何更實質的拓展文化外交透過版權交易透過活動透過很多的對話如何讓國外這些出版商願意回頭來看看台灣也有很棒的出版原創作品好下一頁\n491974\t492054\t下一頁\n506829\t516796\t所以部長我想問在您的想像底下臺灣的文化環境你希望在你的任內打造出什麼樣的樣態你有什麼樣的想像或者是你希望推動什麼樣的政策或者是法案或者是其他更多公共的對話來達成您的想像還有我覺得臺灣必須要面對的現實就是在有網路的時代不管全球化的商業經濟發展是往前或是後退\n531747\t561487\t但是全球化資訊化時代底下部長您剛剛說的要以台灣本土的創作為奧這件事情其實難度相對的非常非常高那部長如何想像但是在部長我給你30秒想像一下但是在這之前我想要先幫部長回答剛剛有一個委員問的議題也許部長您就可以稍微想像一下為什麼我要這麼說剛剛洪孟凱委員在一剛開始的時候問您說有沒有很多電影他是票房不好但是後續效果延伸\n561527\t561587\t獲得獎金\n582932\t602930\t怎麼樣大家覺得很不紅可是他後續IP效應非常非常非常好你看連那個阿宅葛博士都不清楚像這樣的東西台灣有沒有機會做我會說有台灣有非常多的年輕人想要投入動畫製作而動畫製作可能在過去不是部長您所熟悉的那您如何想像\n603510\t622313\t還有剛剛有一個委員問到關於投資抵檢的部分我也可以幫您一併說順便告訴你現在的困境目前的投資抵檢說要有相關完整的劇本才可以做投資抵檢可是在很多文化創意產業它光是初期的醞釀成本我相信部長你一定非常清楚你自己悶在家裡寫稿的時候沒有人會給你錢\n623394\t632237\t您們在家裡畫畫創作的時候沒有人會給你錢全部都是出版品完成之後你才會拿到稿費或相關的費用所以初期的醞釀這件事情文化部願不願回頭再去看關於投資理解的部分我的時間用完了可不可以再給部長30秒簡單回答一下我剛說了這麼多千頭萬緒的問題部長您如何想像在您的任內去促使這些事情\n647338\t662879\t我覺得我們上後嬰兒潮世代在升學主義的成長中不能不能上體育課不能上音樂課不能上美術課所以我們連寫作課都沒有部長對所以基本上台灣的教育是非常失敗的\n664200\t691951\t與我們這一整代的人對藝術不重視他也會影響到我們對文化的投資跟觀念還有消費因為不重視我們就不去消費你的童書裡面講說當你要推動文化的時候它是一個看不到的東西最後就會把錢擺在經濟擺在民生擺在一切東西但是這樣的結果就是會創造出一整個時代對文化漠視的時代然後也完全對文化抱著很輕蔑的態度\n693803\t710119\t那我覺得你問我說未來在我有限的時間內我也不曉得我會做多久在我有限的時間內我會希望把文化變成是一個大家都覺得是一個\n712659\t716783\t對,可是我剛剛說嘛可是回頭你要相關修法進行就是光是初期這件事情很多大老闆會看不懂\n736920\t753951\t﹗\n754164\t775537\t大概就是讓他覺得投資文化不是一個我們從那個抵減稅或者是說ESG這種地方給他得到利益之外他打從心裡覺得這個文化很重要他喜歡音樂他喜歡美術他喜歡電影是打從心裡面有一種感染力可是我剛剛講過我們這一整代的人都沒有文化\n776317\t777038\t拜託你說的是你那一代還是我這一代?\n777038\t782741\t我這一代阿 我不敢講你這一代阿 我70歲阿 我46歲我的身邊很多好朋友其實他們可能賺的錢絕對都比我多我以前就只是一個講師但確實他們願意花在在地文化消費的比例是低的沒有錯他們可能甚至願意送小孩去補英文補才藝送小孩出國但是你叫他多買一本繪本放在家他會跟你說32頁很快就看完了是要買了幹嘛這樣\n806817\t824849\t所以你講到這種童書要父母親自己非常愛童書他才會去買童書或者他就不會買童書同樣道理我們一整代人對文化有點欺滅的感覺的時候他根本不覺得值得投資嘛所以我覺得我要做的事情就是要讓\n826294\t826454\t：培瑜\n843951\t873951\t﹏﹏\n873951\t893234\t﹗\n893374\t920553\t如果到最後現場都沒有人了只是要演唱家其他人去哪裡了去滑手機去看Netflix不是去各式各樣的平台然後他故意嘲諷了做一個文化禁止日這一天所有人都不能參與文化活動可是我們以為文化活動是什麼是不要進劇場嗎不要聽歌嗎不要看劇嗎很抱歉各位如果禁止文化日那天真的發生我們連衣服都沒得穿因為連衣服\n922054\t922154\t謝謝陳培瑜\n","txt":"陳培瑜委員好謝謝主席那有請部長謝謝有請部長\n部長早安先謝謝我從小的時候讀的書的偶像小野部長願意接下這個非常辛苦的工作那在這之前呢我想要先送部長一本書他已經絕版了所以部長你一定要好好保存這本書的書名就叫做如果我是文化部長但是因為你現在已經是文化部長了所以你可以把如果\n這兩個字蓋掉你就是文化部長了但是你知道這本書多棒嗎它是一本法國出版後來翻譯成台灣中文的童書那你現在也是爺爺了我相信你一定有在跟你的孫子共讀喔那這本書那這本書呢我想要分享其中幾頁讓部長知道您的責任有多麼重大甚至您在我心目中所有部會重要的排名絕對在前三名就是這本書所要說的來下一頁\n好下一頁好下一頁這本書裡面呢有一段話他是這麼說的就是我頭影片上所顯示的如果我是文化部長我會盡力向我的同僚說明支持藝術和文化有多麼的重要他們也一定會用心的聽我說\n但是如果在表決預算的時候他們就會開始宣稱有其他更重要更緊急的項目得優先處理例如醫療工程經濟跟國防部長這是您未來的處境他其中裡面就談到了我們要認識建築我們要認識戲劇我們要認識各式各樣的文化藝術其中有一個來自於部長您跟我都非常擅長的專業叫做出版業\n他說像是長篇小說啦短篇小說集、詩集、論文集跟漫畫全部都會變成禁書那我只擷取了其中的一頁也就是說當大家都不再認同文化工作的重要性所有東西就會從這個世界上消失所以部長我想要從這裡這本書等一下我會送給您\n雖然他已經絕版了齁但是我想跟部長談一談不管是所有剛剛委員問的很多很細緻的工作或者是很多輿論的發酵我相信部長這都是會是您接下來非常困難而且重要的挑戰所以我要再一次以讀者的身份先謝謝部長願意承擔的這一份非常艱困的工作來下一頁\n這是文化部的組織圖我想部長你應該已經了然於心下一頁在過去一年當中我們辦公室雖然只有地補了一年的時間但是我們花了很多力氣在跟文化部的非常多政策跟相關的預算對話其中還包含這個我覺得是最困難的它應該是所謂的深水區水很深或是在很深的地方大家不敢動\n下一頁。\n我們也談了台灣台語團體剛剛有兩位委員都都都談了我們就不再多說但是台語相關的政策跟資源在文化部是大家很多很多很多的期待不管是活動不管是演講不管是相關預算或者是跟教育部的跨部會合作都需要部長您再多多費心下演\n還有文創發展司裏面在談的文創園區的定位部長我覺得之後你也會遇到很大的困境是來自這五大文創園區他各自的商業發展機制他各自跟民間機制的合作或者是他的定位或者是他怎麼落地跟各地方縣市政府合作甚至他可以鼓勵年輕人進駐或者是協助已經發展到一個階段的廠商也就是他有商業的層面他有文化的層面他還有地方發展的層面\n部長有勞了接下來下一頁\n還有關於表演藝術的部分這是在議法司台灣有東尼獎了在2019年的時候就有多位民間表演藝術聯盟的團體呼籲文化部應該成立自己的台灣東尼獎可是很可惜的是下一頁很可惜的是在2024年台灣確實有台灣東尼獎但是是落在台北市文化部的高度目前我們還沒有看到我們知道文化部當年有召開相關會議但是沒有後續消息\n下一頁談到台灣部長您在上任的時候第一份新聞稿說的你要推動兒少文化幣這件事情也就是說我可以看得出來部長對兒少是相當重視的而在時部長任內也成立了相關的兒童台好單台頻道那可是關於兒童自治節目這件事情部長\n未來也絕對會是千頭萬緒\n還有關於臺灣的小孩可不可以唱臺灣自己的兒歌甚至在所謂的非商業營業空間像是學校或者是社團活動如果要播放臺灣自己的歌很多爸媽甚至被學校收到通知請不要把孩子們用臺灣的歌或是臺灣的兒歌唱跳的影片上傳到YouTube因為可能會被相關的版權團體做出控告這是可能\n會不會就因為這樣如同部長剛剛您被其他委員質詢到關於短影音的問題關於文化統戰的問題部長這也是千頭萬緒接下來我們發現文化部甚至在文化平權會報裡面沒有青年跟兒少諮詢代表這件事情部長可能您的同您的幕僚不會在第一時間跟您說因為我們發現文化部在這件事情上的概念非常非常的\n我不要說落後,非常非常的不與時俱進對於青少的這個部分文化部的積極度確實很不足我們也希望文化部之後在相關的諮詢委員會裡面必須要兒少代表我相信這件事情是很多委員都會一起關心跟重視的沒有相關文化平權跟兒少的諮詢機制這些其實都沒有辦法讓我們看出現在的青少年或者是兒少代表\n﹏﹏\n而一旦文化幣到了孩子們的手上他們真的想花會不會也沒地方可以花沒有消費標的可以選擇好我想這個部分也會我們辦公室會繼續跟文化部對話再下一頁\n好,關於AI這件事情台灣國科會甚至想要做自己的版本我相信政府的政策有他的相關考量我不予置評但是我想問光是AI到上一個上個月吧上個禮拜又出現更新版的AI他是從影像甚至他跟你對話他教你解數學題我相信現場的葛博士應該非常清楚而一旦台灣要做自己的AI模型相關的侵權問題將如何解決目前我們在文化部也沒有看到相關進度好,下一頁\n還有文策院所有的活動所有這些還有好多好多的細節需要討論到國際展場上如何更實質的拓展文化外交透過版權交易透過活動透過很多的對話如何讓國外這些出版商願意回頭來看看台灣也有很棒的出版原創作品好下一頁\n下一頁\n所以部長我想問在您的想像底下臺灣的文化環境你希望在你的任內打造出什麼樣的樣態你有什麼樣的想像或者是你希望推動什麼樣的政策或者是法案或者是其他更多公共的對話來達成您的想像還有我覺得臺灣必須要面對的現實就是在有網路的時代不管全球化的商業經濟發展是往前或是後退\n但是全球化資訊化時代底下部長您剛剛說的要以台灣本土的創作為奧這件事情其實難度相對的非常非常高那部長如何想像但是在部長我給你30秒想像一下但是在這之前我想要先幫部長回答剛剛有一個委員問的議題也許部長您就可以稍微想像一下為什麼我要這麼說剛剛洪孟凱委員在一剛開始的時候問您說有沒有很多電影他是票房不好但是後續效果延伸\n獲得獎金\n怎麼樣大家覺得很不紅可是他後續IP效應非常非常非常好你看連那個阿宅葛博士都不清楚像這樣的東西台灣有沒有機會做我會說有台灣有非常多的年輕人想要投入動畫製作而動畫製作可能在過去不是部長您所熟悉的那您如何想像\n還有剛剛有一個委員問到關於投資抵檢的部分我也可以幫您一併說順便告訴你現在的困境目前的投資抵檢說要有相關完整的劇本才可以做投資抵檢可是在很多文化創意產業它光是初期的醞釀成本我相信部長你一定非常清楚你自己悶在家裡寫稿的時候沒有人會給你錢\n您們在家裡畫畫創作的時候沒有人會給你錢全部都是出版品完成之後你才會拿到稿費或相關的費用所以初期的醞釀這件事情文化部願不願回頭再去看關於投資理解的部分我的時間用完了可不可以再給部長30秒簡單回答一下我剛說了這麼多千頭萬緒的問題部長您如何想像在您的任內去促使這些事情\n我覺得我們上後嬰兒潮世代在升學主義的成長中不能不能上體育課不能上音樂課不能上美術課所以我們連寫作課都沒有部長對所以基本上台灣的教育是非常失敗的\n與我們這一整代的人對藝術不重視他也會影響到我們對文化的投資跟觀念還有消費因為不重視我們就不去消費你的童書裡面講說當你要推動文化的時候它是一個看不到的東西最後就會把錢擺在經濟擺在民生擺在一切東西但是這樣的結果就是會創造出一整個時代對文化漠視的時代然後也完全對文化抱著很輕蔑的態度\n那我覺得你問我說未來在我有限的時間內我也不曉得我會做多久在我有限的時間內我會希望把文化變成是一個大家都覺得是一個\n對,可是我剛剛說嘛可是回頭你要相關修法進行就是光是初期這件事情很多大老闆會看不懂\n﹗\n大概就是讓他覺得投資文化不是一個我們從那個抵減稅或者是說ESG這種地方給他得到利益之外他打從心裡覺得這個文化很重要他喜歡音樂他喜歡美術他喜歡電影是打從心裡面有一種感染力可是我剛剛講過我們這一整代的人都沒有文化\n拜託你說的是你那一代還是我這一代?\n我這一代阿 我不敢講你這一代阿 我70歲阿 我46歲我的身邊很多好朋友其實他們可能賺的錢絕對都比我多我以前就只是一個講師但確實他們願意花在在地文化消費的比例是低的沒有錯他們可能甚至願意送小孩去補英文補才藝送小孩出國但是你叫他多買一本繪本放在家他會跟你說32頁很快就看完了是要買了幹嘛這樣\n所以你講到這種童書要父母親自己非常愛童書他才會去買童書或者他就不會買童書同樣道理我們一整代人對文化有點欺滅的感覺的時候他根本不覺得值得投資嘛所以我覺得我要做的事情就是要讓\n：培瑜\n﹏﹏\n﹗\n如果到最後現場都沒有人了只是要演唱家其他人去哪裡了去滑手機去看Netflix不是去各式各樣的平台然後他故意嘲諷了做一個文化禁止日這一天所有人都不能參與文化活動可是我們以為文化活動是什麼是不要進劇場嗎不要聽歌嗎不要看劇嗎很抱歉各位如果禁止文化日那天真的發生我們連衣服都沒得穿因為連衣服\n謝謝陳培瑜\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.089 --> 00:00.830\n陳培瑜委員好謝謝主席那有請部長謝謝有請部長\n\n00:20.663 --> 00:42.555\n部長早安先謝謝我從小的時候讀的書的偶像小野部長願意接下這個非常辛苦的工作那在這之前呢我想要先送部長一本書他已經絕版了所以部長你一定要好好保存這本書的書名就叫做如果我是文化部長但是因為你現在已經是文化部長了所以你可以把如果\n\n00:44.157 --> 01:11.098\n這兩個字蓋掉你就是文化部長了但是你知道這本書多棒嗎它是一本法國出版後來翻譯成台灣中文的童書那你現在也是爺爺了我相信你一定有在跟你的孫子共讀喔那這本書那這本書呢我想要分享其中幾頁讓部長知道您的責任有多麼重大甚至您在我心目中所有部會重要的排名絕對在前三名就是這本書所要說的來下一頁\n\n01:12.924 --> 01:30.553\n好下一頁好下一頁這本書裡面呢有一段話他是這麼說的就是我頭影片上所顯示的如果我是文化部長我會盡力向我的同僚說明支持藝術和文化有多麼的重要他們也一定會用心的聽我說\n\n01:31.773 --> 01:42.262\n但是如果在表決預算的時候他們就會開始宣稱有其他更重要更緊急的項目得優先處理例如醫療工程經濟跟國防部長這是您未來的處境他其中裡面就談到了我們要認識建築我們要認識戲劇我們要認識各式各樣的文化藝術其中有一個來自於部長您跟我都非常擅長的專業叫做出版業\n\n01:58.655 --> 02:16.783\n他說像是長篇小說啦短篇小說集、詩集、論文集跟漫畫全部都會變成禁書那我只擷取了其中的一頁也就是說當大家都不再認同文化工作的重要性所有東西就會從這個世界上消失所以部長我想要從這裡這本書等一下我會送給您\n\n02:19.424 --> 02:40.302\n雖然他已經絕版了齁但是我想跟部長談一談不管是所有剛剛委員問的很多很細緻的工作或者是很多輿論的發酵我相信部長這都是會是您接下來非常困難而且重要的挑戰所以我要再一次以讀者的身份先謝謝部長願意承擔的這一份非常艱困的工作來下一頁\n\n02:41.443 --> 03:06.160\n這是文化部的組織圖我想部長你應該已經了然於心下一頁在過去一年當中我們辦公室雖然只有地補了一年的時間但是我們花了很多力氣在跟文化部的非常多政策跟相關的預算對話其中還包含這個我覺得是最困難的它應該是所謂的深水區水很深或是在很深的地方大家不敢動\n\n03:07.020 --> 03:07.060\n下一頁。\n\n03:25.470 --> 03:45.642\n我們也談了台灣台語團體剛剛有兩位委員都都都談了我們就不再多說但是台語相關的政策跟資源在文化部是大家很多很多很多的期待不管是活動不管是演講不管是相關預算或者是跟教育部的跨部會合作都需要部長您再多多費心下演\n\n03:46.662 --> 04:15.140\n還有文創發展司裏面在談的文創園區的定位部長我覺得之後你也會遇到很大的困境是來自這五大文創園區他各自的商業發展機制他各自跟民間機制的合作或者是他的定位或者是他怎麼落地跟各地方縣市政府合作甚至他可以鼓勵年輕人進駐或者是協助已經發展到一個階段的廠商也就是他有商業的層面他有文化的層面他還有地方發展的層面\n\n04:15.661 --> 04:16.851\n部長有勞了接下來下一頁\n\n04:19.483 --> 04:48.590\n還有關於表演藝術的部分這是在議法司台灣有東尼獎了在2019年的時候就有多位民間表演藝術聯盟的團體呼籲文化部應該成立自己的台灣東尼獎可是很可惜的是下一頁很可惜的是在2024年台灣確實有台灣東尼獎但是是落在台北市文化部的高度目前我們還沒有看到我們知道文化部當年有召開相關會議但是沒有後續消息\n\n04:49.150 --> 05:09.493\n下一頁談到台灣部長您在上任的時候第一份新聞稿說的你要推動兒少文化幣這件事情也就是說我可以看得出來部長對兒少是相當重視的而在時部長任內也成立了相關的兒童台好單台頻道那可是關於兒童自治節目這件事情部長\n\n05:10.114 --> 05:10.674\n未來也絕對會是千頭萬緒\n\n05:29.643 --> 05:40.767\n還有關於臺灣的小孩可不可以唱臺灣自己的兒歌甚至在所謂的非商業營業空間像是學校或者是社團活動如果要播放臺灣自己的歌很多爸媽甚至被學校收到通知請不要把孩子們用臺灣的歌或是臺灣的兒歌唱跳的影片上傳到YouTube因為可能會被相關的版權團體做出控告這是可能\n\n05:56.773 --> 06:21.531\n會不會就因為這樣如同部長剛剛您被其他委員質詢到關於短影音的問題關於文化統戰的問題部長這也是千頭萬緒接下來我們發現文化部甚至在文化平權會報裡面沒有青年跟兒少諮詢代表這件事情部長可能您的同您的幕僚不會在第一時間跟您說因為我們發現文化部在這件事情上的概念非常非常的\n\n06:22.812 --> 06:48.887\n我不要說落後,非常非常的不與時俱進對於青少的這個部分文化部的積極度確實很不足我們也希望文化部之後在相關的諮詢委員會裡面必須要兒少代表我相信這件事情是很多委員都會一起關心跟重視的沒有相關文化平權跟兒少的諮詢機制這些其實都沒有辦法讓我們看出現在的青少年或者是兒少代表\n\n07:08.650 --> 07:15.179\n而一旦文化幣到了孩子們的手上他們真的想花會不會也沒地方可以花沒有消費標的可以選擇好我想這個部分也會我們辦公室會繼續跟文化部對話再下一頁\n\n07:22.947 --> 07:49.715\n好,關於AI這件事情台灣國科會甚至想要做自己的版本我相信政府的政策有他的相關考量我不予置評但是我想問光是AI到上一個上個月吧上個禮拜又出現更新版的AI他是從影像甚至他跟你對話他教你解數學題我相信現場的葛博士應該非常清楚而一旦台灣要做自己的AI模型相關的侵權問題將如何解決目前我們在文化部也沒有看到相關進度好,下一頁\n\n07:52.456 --> 08:10.453\n還有文策院所有的活動所有這些還有好多好多的細節需要討論到國際展場上如何更實質的拓展文化外交透過版權交易透過活動透過很多的對話如何讓國外這些出版商願意回頭來看看台灣也有很棒的出版原創作品好下一頁\n\n08:11.974 --> 08:12.054\n下一頁\n\n08:26.829 --> 08:36.796\n所以部長我想問在您的想像底下臺灣的文化環境你希望在你的任內打造出什麼樣的樣態你有什麼樣的想像或者是你希望推動什麼樣的政策或者是法案或者是其他更多公共的對話來達成您的想像還有我覺得臺灣必須要面對的現實就是在有網路的時代不管全球化的商業經濟發展是往前或是後退\n\n08:51.747 --> 09:21.487\n但是全球化資訊化時代底下部長您剛剛說的要以台灣本土的創作為奧這件事情其實難度相對的非常非常高那部長如何想像但是在部長我給你30秒想像一下但是在這之前我想要先幫部長回答剛剛有一個委員問的議題也許部長您就可以稍微想像一下為什麼我要這麼說剛剛洪孟凱委員在一剛開始的時候問您說有沒有很多電影他是票房不好但是後續效果延伸\n\n09:21.527 --> 09:21.587\n獲得獎金\n\n09:42.932 --> 10:02.930\n怎麼樣大家覺得很不紅可是他後續IP效應非常非常非常好你看連那個阿宅葛博士都不清楚像這樣的東西台灣有沒有機會做我會說有台灣有非常多的年輕人想要投入動畫製作而動畫製作可能在過去不是部長您所熟悉的那您如何想像\n\n10:03.510 --> 10:22.313\n還有剛剛有一個委員問到關於投資抵檢的部分我也可以幫您一併說順便告訴你現在的困境目前的投資抵檢說要有相關完整的劇本才可以做投資抵檢可是在很多文化創意產業它光是初期的醞釀成本我相信部長你一定非常清楚你自己悶在家裡寫稿的時候沒有人會給你錢\n\n10:23.394 --> 10:32.237\n您們在家裡畫畫創作的時候沒有人會給你錢全部都是出版品完成之後你才會拿到稿費或相關的費用所以初期的醞釀這件事情文化部願不願回頭再去看關於投資理解的部分我的時間用完了可不可以再給部長30秒簡單回答一下我剛說了這麼多千頭萬緒的問題部長您如何想像在您的任內去促使這些事情\n\n10:47.338 --> 11:02.879\n我覺得我們上後嬰兒潮世代在升學主義的成長中不能不能上體育課不能上音樂課不能上美術課所以我們連寫作課都沒有部長對所以基本上台灣的教育是非常失敗的\n\n11:04.200 --> 11:31.951\n與我們這一整代的人對藝術不重視他也會影響到我們對文化的投資跟觀念還有消費因為不重視我們就不去消費你的童書裡面講說當你要推動文化的時候它是一個看不到的東西最後就會把錢擺在經濟擺在民生擺在一切東西但是這樣的結果就是會創造出一整個時代對文化漠視的時代然後也完全對文化抱著很輕蔑的態度\n\n11:33.803 --> 11:50.119\n那我覺得你問我說未來在我有限的時間內我也不曉得我會做多久在我有限的時間內我會希望把文化變成是一個大家都覺得是一個\n\n11:52.659 --> 11:56.783\n對,可是我剛剛說嘛可是回頭你要相關修法進行就是光是初期這件事情很多大老闆會看不懂\n\n12:34.164 --> 12:55.537\n大概就是讓他覺得投資文化不是一個我們從那個抵減稅或者是說ESG這種地方給他得到利益之外他打從心裡覺得這個文化很重要他喜歡音樂他喜歡美術他喜歡電影是打從心裡面有一種感染力可是我剛剛講過我們這一整代的人都沒有文化\n\n12:56.317 --> 12:57.038\n拜託你說的是你那一代還是我這一代?\n\n12:57.038 --> 13:02.741\n我這一代阿我不敢講你這一代阿我70歲阿我46歲我的身邊很多好朋友其實他們可能賺的錢絕對都比我多我以前就只是一個講師但確實他們願意花在在地文化消費的比例是低的沒有錯他們可能甚至願意送小孩去補英文補才藝送小孩出國但是你叫他多買一本繪本放在家他會跟你說32頁很快就看完了是要買了幹嘛這樣\n\n13:26.817 --> 13:44.849\n所以你講到這種童書要父母親自己非常愛童書他才會去買童書或者他就不會買童書同樣道理我們一整代人對文化有點欺滅的感覺的時候他根本不覺得值得投資嘛所以我覺得我要做的事情就是要讓\n\n13:46.294 --> 13:46.454\n：培瑜\n\n14:53.374 --> 15:20.553\n如果到最後現場都沒有人了只是要演唱家其他人去哪裡了去滑手機去看Netflix不是去各式各樣的平台然後他故意嘲諷了做一個文化禁止日這一天所有人都不能參與文化活動可是我們以為文化活動是什麼是不要進劇場嗎不要聽歌嗎不要看劇嗎很抱歉各位如果禁止文化日那天真的發生我們連衣服都沒得穿因為連衣服\n\n15:22.054 --> 15:22.154\n謝謝陳培瑜\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.089,"end":0.83,"text":"陳培瑜委員好謝謝主席那有請部長謝謝有請部長"},{"start":20.663,"end":42.555,"text":"部長早安先謝謝我從小的時候讀的書的偶像小野部長願意接下這個非常辛苦的工作那在這之前呢我想要先送部長一本書他已經絕版了所以部長你一定要好好保存這本書的書名就叫做如果我是文化部長但是因為你現在已經是文化部長了所以你可以把如果"},{"start":44.157,"end":71.098,"text":"這兩個字蓋掉你就是文化部長了但是你知道這本書多棒嗎它是一本法國出版後來翻譯成台灣中文的童書那你現在也是爺爺了我相信你一定有在跟你的孫子共讀喔那這本書那這本書呢我想要分享其中幾頁讓部長知道您的責任有多麼重大甚至您在我心目中所有部會重要的排名絕對在前三名就是這本書所要說的來下一頁"},{"start":72.924,"end":90.553,"text":"好下一頁好下一頁這本書裡面呢有一段話他是這麼說的就是我頭影片上所顯示的如果我是文化部長我會盡力向我的同僚說明支持藝術和文化有多麼的重要他們也一定會用心的聽我說"},{"start":91.773,"end":102.262,"text":"但是如果在表決預算的時候他們就會開始宣稱有其他更重要更緊急的項目得優先處理例如醫療工程經濟跟國防部長這是您未來的處境他其中裡面就談到了我們要認識建築我們要認識戲劇我們要認識各式各樣的文化藝術其中有一個來自於部長您跟我都非常擅長的專業叫做出版業"},{"start":118.655,"end":136.783,"text":"他說像是長篇小說啦短篇小說集、詩集、論文集跟漫畫全部都會變成禁書那我只擷取了其中的一頁也就是說當大家都不再認同文化工作的重要性所有東西就會從這個世界上消失所以部長我想要從這裡這本書等一下我會送給您"},{"start":139.424,"end":160.302,"text":"雖然他已經絕版了齁但是我想跟部長談一談不管是所有剛剛委員問的很多很細緻的工作或者是很多輿論的發酵我相信部長這都是會是您接下來非常困難而且重要的挑戰所以我要再一次以讀者的身份先謝謝部長願意承擔的這一份非常艱困的工作來下一頁"},{"start":161.443,"end":186.16,"text":"這是文化部的組織圖我想部長你應該已經了然於心下一頁在過去一年當中我們辦公室雖然只有地補了一年的時間但是我們花了很多力氣在跟文化部的非常多政策跟相關的預算對話其中還包含這個我覺得是最困難的它應該是所謂的深水區水很深或是在很深的地方大家不敢動"},{"start":187.02,"end":187.06,"text":"下一頁。"},{"start":205.47,"end":225.642,"text":"我們也談了台灣台語團體剛剛有兩位委員都都都談了我們就不再多說但是台語相關的政策跟資源在文化部是大家很多很多很多的期待不管是活動不管是演講不管是相關預算或者是跟教育部的跨部會合作都需要部長您再多多費心下演"},{"start":226.662,"end":255.14,"text":"還有文創發展司裏面在談的文創園區的定位部長我覺得之後你也會遇到很大的困境是來自這五大文創園區他各自的商業發展機制他各自跟民間機制的合作或者是他的定位或者是他怎麼落地跟各地方縣市政府合作甚至他可以鼓勵年輕人進駐或者是協助已經發展到一個階段的廠商也就是他有商業的層面他有文化的層面他還有地方發展的層面"},{"start":255.661,"end":256.851,"text":"部長有勞了接下來下一頁"},{"start":259.483,"end":288.59,"text":"還有關於表演藝術的部分這是在議法司台灣有東尼獎了在2019年的時候就有多位民間表演藝術聯盟的團體呼籲文化部應該成立自己的台灣東尼獎可是很可惜的是下一頁很可惜的是在2024年台灣確實有台灣東尼獎但是是落在台北市文化部的高度目前我們還沒有看到我們知道文化部當年有召開相關會議但是沒有後續消息"},{"start":289.15,"end":309.493,"text":"下一頁談到台灣部長您在上任的時候第一份新聞稿說的你要推動兒少文化幣這件事情也就是說我可以看得出來部長對兒少是相當重視的而在時部長任內也成立了相關的兒童台好單台頻道那可是關於兒童自治節目這件事情部長"},{"start":310.114,"end":310.674,"text":"未來也絕對會是千頭萬緒"},{"start":329.643,"end":340.767,"text":"還有關於臺灣的小孩可不可以唱臺灣自己的兒歌甚至在所謂的非商業營業空間像是學校或者是社團活動如果要播放臺灣自己的歌很多爸媽甚至被學校收到通知請不要把孩子們用臺灣的歌或是臺灣的兒歌唱跳的影片上傳到YouTube因為可能會被相關的版權團體做出控告這是可能"},{"start":356.773,"end":381.531,"text":"會不會就因為這樣如同部長剛剛您被其他委員質詢到關於短影音的問題關於文化統戰的問題部長這也是千頭萬緒接下來我們發現文化部甚至在文化平權會報裡面沒有青年跟兒少諮詢代表這件事情部長可能您的同您的幕僚不會在第一時間跟您說因為我們發現文化部在這件事情上的概念非常非常的"},{"start":382.812,"end":408.887,"text":"我不要說落後,非常非常的不與時俱進對於青少的這個部分文化部的積極度確實很不足我們也希望文化部之後在相關的諮詢委員會裡面必須要兒少代表我相信這件事情是很多委員都會一起關心跟重視的沒有相關文化平權跟兒少的諮詢機制這些其實都沒有辦法讓我們看出現在的青少年或者是兒少代表"},{"start":409.087,"end":428.49,"text":"﹏﹏"},{"start":428.65,"end":435.179,"text":"而一旦文化幣到了孩子們的手上他們真的想花會不會也沒地方可以花沒有消費標的可以選擇好我想這個部分也會我們辦公室會繼續跟文化部對話再下一頁"},{"start":442.947,"end":469.715,"text":"好,關於AI這件事情台灣國科會甚至想要做自己的版本我相信政府的政策有他的相關考量我不予置評但是我想問光是AI到上一個上個月吧上個禮拜又出現更新版的AI他是從影像甚至他跟你對話他教你解數學題我相信現場的葛博士應該非常清楚而一旦台灣要做自己的AI模型相關的侵權問題將如何解決目前我們在文化部也沒有看到相關進度好,下一頁"},{"start":472.456,"end":490.453,"text":"還有文策院所有的活動所有這些還有好多好多的細節需要討論到國際展場上如何更實質的拓展文化外交透過版權交易透過活動透過很多的對話如何讓國外這些出版商願意回頭來看看台灣也有很棒的出版原創作品好下一頁"},{"start":491.974,"end":492.054,"text":"下一頁"},{"start":506.829,"end":516.796,"text":"所以部長我想問在您的想像底下臺灣的文化環境你希望在你的任內打造出什麼樣的樣態你有什麼樣的想像或者是你希望推動什麼樣的政策或者是法案或者是其他更多公共的對話來達成您的想像還有我覺得臺灣必須要面對的現實就是在有網路的時代不管全球化的商業經濟發展是往前或是後退"},{"start":531.747,"end":561.487,"text":"但是全球化資訊化時代底下部長您剛剛說的要以台灣本土的創作為奧這件事情其實難度相對的非常非常高那部長如何想像但是在部長我給你30秒想像一下但是在這之前我想要先幫部長回答剛剛有一個委員問的議題也許部長您就可以稍微想像一下為什麼我要這麼說剛剛洪孟凱委員在一剛開始的時候問您說有沒有很多電影他是票房不好但是後續效果延伸"},{"start":561.527,"end":561.587,"text":"獲得獎金"},{"start":582.932,"end":602.93,"text":"怎麼樣大家覺得很不紅可是他後續IP效應非常非常非常好你看連那個阿宅葛博士都不清楚像這樣的東西台灣有沒有機會做我會說有台灣有非常多的年輕人想要投入動畫製作而動畫製作可能在過去不是部長您所熟悉的那您如何想像"},{"start":603.51,"end":622.313,"text":"還有剛剛有一個委員問到關於投資抵檢的部分我也可以幫您一併說順便告訴你現在的困境目前的投資抵檢說要有相關完整的劇本才可以做投資抵檢可是在很多文化創意產業它光是初期的醞釀成本我相信部長你一定非常清楚你自己悶在家裡寫稿的時候沒有人會給你錢"},{"start":623.394,"end":632.237,"text":"您們在家裡畫畫創作的時候沒有人會給你錢全部都是出版品完成之後你才會拿到稿費或相關的費用所以初期的醞釀這件事情文化部願不願回頭再去看關於投資理解的部分我的時間用完了可不可以再給部長30秒簡單回答一下我剛說了這麼多千頭萬緒的問題部長您如何想像在您的任內去促使這些事情"},{"start":647.338,"end":662.879,"text":"我覺得我們上後嬰兒潮世代在升學主義的成長中不能不能上體育課不能上音樂課不能上美術課所以我們連寫作課都沒有部長對所以基本上台灣的教育是非常失敗的"},{"start":664.2,"end":691.951,"text":"與我們這一整代的人對藝術不重視他也會影響到我們對文化的投資跟觀念還有消費因為不重視我們就不去消費你的童書裡面講說當你要推動文化的時候它是一個看不到的東西最後就會把錢擺在經濟擺在民生擺在一切東西但是這樣的結果就是會創造出一整個時代對文化漠視的時代然後也完全對文化抱著很輕蔑的態度"},{"start":693.803,"end":710.119,"text":"那我覺得你問我說未來在我有限的時間內我也不曉得我會做多久在我有限的時間內我會希望把文化變成是一個大家都覺得是一個"},{"start":712.659,"end":716.783,"text":"對,可是我剛剛說嘛可是回頭你要相關修法進行就是光是初期這件事情很多大老闆會看不懂"},{"start":736.92,"end":753.951,"text":"﹗"},{"start":754.164,"end":775.537,"text":"大概就是讓他覺得投資文化不是一個我們從那個抵減稅或者是說ESG這種地方給他得到利益之外他打從心裡覺得這個文化很重要他喜歡音樂他喜歡美術他喜歡電影是打從心裡面有一種感染力可是我剛剛講過我們這一整代的人都沒有文化"},{"start":776.317,"end":777.038,"text":"拜託你說的是你那一代還是我這一代?"},{"start":777.038,"end":782.741,"text":"我這一代阿 我不敢講你這一代阿 我70歲阿 我46歲我的身邊很多好朋友其實他們可能賺的錢絕對都比我多我以前就只是一個講師但確實他們願意花在在地文化消費的比例是低的沒有錯他們可能甚至願意送小孩去補英文補才藝送小孩出國但是你叫他多買一本繪本放在家他會跟你說32頁很快就看完了是要買了幹嘛這樣"},{"start":806.817,"end":824.849,"text":"所以你講到這種童書要父母親自己非常愛童書他才會去買童書或者他就不會買童書同樣道理我們一整代人對文化有點欺滅的感覺的時候他根本不覺得值得投資嘛所以我覺得我要做的事情就是要讓"},{"start":826.294,"end":826.454,"text":"：培瑜"},{"start":843.951,"end":873.951,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":873.951,"end":893.234,"text":"﹗"},{"start":893.374,"end":920.553,"text":"如果到最後現場都沒有人了只是要演唱家其他人去哪裡了去滑手機去看Netflix不是去各式各樣的平台然後他故意嘲諷了做一個文化禁止日這一天所有人都不能參與文化活動可是我們以為文化活動是什麼是不要進劇場嗎不要聽歌嗎不要看劇嗎很抱歉各位如果禁止文化日那天真的發生我們連衣服都沒得穿因為連衣服"},{"start":922.054,"end":922.154,"text":"謝謝陳培瑜"}]}}}}