{"id":152807,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152807","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ec526bb9f1bdce9d6bde47235cc2e4e03a3b62c5cf6e8dc13b43bbf2d64d2017200077becbf458025ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張啓楷","委員發言時間":"11:19:14 - 11:26:55","影片長度":"00:07:41","會議時間":"2024-05-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、社會福利及衛生環境、教育及文化三委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查：\n一、本院委員羅美玲等20人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十四條條文修正草案」案。\n二、本院委員王定宇等16人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法增訂第二十一條之一條文草案」案。\n三、本院委員邱志偉等20人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十二條條文修正草案」案。\n四、本院委員邱議瑩等19人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(第四案如經復議，則不予審查）。）","date":"2024-05-22","duration":461,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、社會福利及衛生環境、教育及文化三委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[19,26,22],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-19,26,22-1"},"end_time":"2024-05-22T11:26:55+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-22T11:19:14+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":687,"blocks":[["張委員啓楷：（11時19分）謝謝主席，請高副主委。"],["主席：請高副主委。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：委員好。"],["張委員啓楷：副主委你好。這應該算是今天最新的好消息，不過可能也是很艱困的挑戰，因為半導體業的發展熱，今天最新的新聞提到，我們產業用電創了最近兩年半最大的漲幅，上個月，就是4月份，我們的用電比去年同期成長了6%，這算很好的消息，表示我們的產業和整個經濟是在往上走的，可是看起來用電的挑戰非常非常大，所以今天我要請教你一個問題，第一個，用電量一直在增加，現在電到底夠不夠？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：跟委員報告，充裕穩定的電力，絕對是政府的重中之重，我只能是……"],["張委員啓楷：新主委是AI專家，對不對？他推AI，AI跟精密的晶片、半導體，都是用電耗電非常大的。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：我瞭解。"],["張委員啓楷：這個好消息就代表後面挑戰就非常大了。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是，沒錯。"],["張委員啓楷：所以我直接問你，很清楚的，目前半導體產業精密晶片製造占我們用電的比例有多高？100度電裡面有多少電是用在半導體上面？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：這個數字我不是非常清楚，可是就我所知，其實經濟部都會針對每年的用電需求量跟供給量做一個評估，這也是一個公開的資訊。"],["張委員啓楷：副主委，我請教你這個問題，因為我是嘉義人，台積電要來嘉義設廠嘛，對不對？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是。"],["張委員啓楷：所以嘉義的用電就增加了，我們當然是樂觀其成，因為是我們在爭取的，拜託在用電方面你要多支持。你們非常重要，國家的重要政策發展都是你們在主導嘛，對不對？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是。"],["張委員啓楷：所以你一方面要讓用電是無虞的，另一方面，我要很清楚，你們說要瞭解的是，國發會應該要做一個評估，例如說，你們的主委是AI專家，那麼在AI方面可能會用掉多少電？在發展的同時，需要多少電？那半導體需要多少電？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是。"],["張委員啓楷：兩個禮拜內評估一下今年到未來的一年內可能用掉多少電，好不好？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是特別針對AI嗎？"],["張委員啓楷：針對AI跟半導體……"],["高副主任委員仙桂：其他的需要電動化的？"],["張委員啓楷：這兩個現在用電最多。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：半導體跟AI？"],["張委員啓楷：半導體跟AI。當然也有重疊的地方，好不好？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是。"],["張委員啓楷：你們目前還沒做評估報告嗎？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：應該是有做相關的評估，因為半導體產業其實在臺灣已經很久了，只是現在因為有一些新設的廠，所以會有新的用電需求，我覺得這些新的用電需求都是在經濟部的掌握之中，因為設廠都有一定的完成期限，這個都會在我們需要用電的評估當中。"],["張委員啓楷：現在很多人在幫我們國家的經濟加油，在很樂觀的狀況之下，是有些擔心的。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是。"],["張委員啓楷：我們現在整體的能源政策跟整個能源的結構，你去看，最近這八年來蔡政府非常極力去推再生能源，那現在賴政府上來了，我就看了一下過去八年的再生能源，老實講，這八年只有成長了多少？4.8%，已經那麼努力的狀況下，只成長4.8%，那你去做個對比，今天的消息是4月份用電就成長了6%，6%當然比4.8%多嘛，對不對？那又有一個危機出現，7月27日核電3.5%就不見了，這是不是簡單的數學？成長6%，努力八年，再生能源要補上去的只有4.8%，結果又有3.5%的核能要不見了，用這麼簡單的數學來算，那怎麼辦？電力會不夠啊，要怎麼辦？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：跟委員報告，第一個就是綠電起步比較困難，可是綠電有既定的要達到的裝置容量目標，我們會確實達成。剛才你講到核電，假設核電沒有延役的話，中間要補充電力，我們是用天然氣，就是用減煤、增氣、衝綠電的方式來因應，我們政府都有一些全盤的規劃。"],["張委員啓楷：副主委，你說衝綠電，八年前時的再生能源，綠電占5.1%，衝了八年，現在9.9%，蔡政府已經那麼努力了，才成長了4.8%，我拿今天的新聞來做對比，今年4月份光是產業的用電就增加6%，已經追不上去了。我今天跟你講的都是非常殘酷的事實，對不對？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：瞭解。"],["張委員啓楷：所以7月27日是不是要討論一下核三廠的一號機真的要停嗎？包括未來的核電是不是真的要停下來？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：有關於這個議題，之前我們的龔前主委也有提到，這個議題會尋求全民的共識，然後再做後續的一些決定。"],["張委員啓楷：我另外問一個問題，你們國發會去年剛核准643億的經費，去打造2030年的電動化公車，對不對？結果現在出現兩個問題了，現在一年的耗電，據我統計，差不多要7億8,300萬度，現在電到底夠不夠？我們剛剛討論的也是AI的用電、半導體的用電，現在電動車也要用電了，一年要7億8,300萬度，電到底夠不夠用？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：跟委員報告，電動車是我們十二項核心戰略產業裡面運輸這一塊，主責的單位是交通部、經濟部等相關部會。當然充電樁的裝置是非常重要的，我們絕對不會允許有電動車卻沒有充電場，也不能充電，這是我們不允許會發生的"],["張委員啓楷：我跟你說，這個問題馬上就發生了，現在很多地方連充電場都沒有，怎麼充電？一方面是可能有電沒有車，一方面是有車，可能也有電，但連充電場都沒有，連臺北市這個首善之都，現在充電場都找不到，這要如何解決？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是，所以後面的部分我們會全力衝刺，去裝置充電場。"],["張委員啓楷：這樣好不好？我們很理性科學地問政。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是。"],["張委員啓楷：所以幾個東西請你一定要注意，而且要給我資料，好不好？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：好，沒問題。"],["張委員啓楷：第一個，剛剛講的AI跟半導體未來一年可能會增加多少用電，需要多少電，你們要有一個預估。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：好。"],["張委員啓楷：不只評估，你要有一個調查報告。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是。"],["張委員啓楷：你兩個禮拜給我，OK不OK？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：應該可以。"],["張委員啓楷：應該可以，對不對？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：好。"],["張委員啓楷：好。第二個，電動車現在很明顯的問題就是沒有充電場，你們要趕快去做，可能要做個協調，好不好？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：好。"],["張委員啓楷：我知道臺北市政府也很緊張，也出來講，臺中市政府都出來講，你們就去幫忙。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：好。"],["張委員啓楷：要去幫忙，怎麼幫忙？也請你兩個禮拜後給我一個報告，好不好？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：充電場的部分可不可以一個月後給報告？因為我們還要洽其他相關的部會，好不好？"],["張委員啓楷：好。謝謝。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：OK，好，謝謝。"],["張委員啓楷：謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝張啓楷委員。","好，接下來，我們請林月琴委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":76,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-19,26,22-1","speakers":["邱議瑩","王定宇","羅美玲","陳亭妃","林岱樺","邱志偉","楊瓊瓔","萬美玲","賴瑞隆","鄭天財Sra 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\"剪煤蒸氣的方式沖綠電的方式來做因應。我想這些我們政府都有一些全盤的規劃。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。我想這些我們政府都有一些全盤的規劃。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。我想這些我們政府都有一些全盤的規劃。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"剪\", \"start\": 281.191, \"end\": 281.411, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"煤\", \"start\": 281.411, \"end\": 282.072, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"蒸\", \"start\": 282.072, \"end\": 282.232, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"氣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 282.232, \"end\": 282.252, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 282.252, \"end\": 282.392, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"式\", \"start\": 282.392, \"end\": 283.012, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"沖\"}, {\"word\": \"綠\"}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 283.012, \"end\": 283.172, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 283.172, \"end\": 283.492, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"式\", \"start\": 283.492, \"end\": 284.172, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", 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{\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 455.625, \"end\": 456.706, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 456.706, \"end\": 457.006, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 457.006, \"end\": 457.126, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 457.126, \"end\": 457.226, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 457.226, \"end\": 457.246, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 459.107, \"end\": 459.45, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"啓\"}, {\"word\": \"楷\", \"start\": 459.45, \"end\": 459.611, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 459.611, \"end\": 459.631, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,249 --> 00:00:26,316\n張啓楷委員發言來請高副主委委員好\n\n2\n00:00:28,589 --> 00:00:44,018\n今天應該算是今天最新的好消息馬國柯林也是很艱困的挑戰因為半導體業的這個發展熱今天最新的新聞公我們產業的用電創了最近兩年半最大的漲幅\n\n3\n00:00:46,109 --> 00:00:46,289\n市委員報告\n\n4\n00:01:12,648 --> 00:01:39,882\n:「充裕、穩定的電力絕對是正本的重中之重。」現在主委是AI專家,對不對?他推AI。AI跟這個精密的晶片啊,半導體都是用電耗電非常大的。不知道這個好消息代表了後面挑戰就非常大的,所以我直接問你很清楚的。目前,半導體這個產業啊,精密的這個晶片啊,占我們用電的比例有多高?一百多電裡面有多少電是用在我們的半導體上面?\n\n5\n00:01:40,657 --> 00:01:41,618\n我會請教你這件事,請教自己人。\n\n6\n00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:19,176\n臺積電計畫來加以設廠,用電就增加,當然是樂觀行程我們在爭取的,拜託在用電方面你要多支持。而且國家,你們非常重要,你們國家重要政策發展都是你們在主導,所以你一方面要讓用電是無虞的,一方面我要很清楚,你們說要了解國發會應該要做一個評估,例如說\n\n7\n00:02:21,698 --> 00:02:21,718\n〔記者訪問〕\n\n8\n00:02:41,932 --> 00:02:56,330\n其他需要電動化的這兩個現在用電最多啦半導體跟AI它當然也有重疊的地方啦好不好這方面你目前還沒做評估報告嗎我覺得它應該是有做相關因為半導體其實產業在台灣已經很\n\n9\n00:03:38,820 --> 00:03:51,464\n:「本來老講這八年只有成長了多少?4.8%耶。就那麼努力的狀況下已經只成長4.8%。那你去做個對比,今天消息,4月份就成長6%。6%當然比4.8%多嘛,對不對?那又有一個危機出現啊。我們7月27號核電3.5%就不見了喔。\n\n10\n00:04:02,189 --> 00:04:13,720\n請問這是不是簡單的數學成長6%結果努力8年只有再生能源要補上去的只有4.8%結果又有3.5%的核能要不見了這麼簡單的數學那怎麼辦電力會不夠啊\n\n11\n00:04:17,623 --> 00:04:39,191\n吳委員報告就是說第一個當然就是綠電當然起步比較困難可是我們綠電我們有既定的我們要達到的裝置容量的目標我們會確實會達成那當然你講到說其實就是假設核電沒有延逸的話那我們知道我們中間要補充電力我們是用天然氣\n\n12\n00:04:41,191 --> 00:04:59,878\n剪煤蒸氣的方式沖綠電的方式來做因應。我想這些我們政府都有一些全盤的規劃。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。我想這些我們政府都有一些全盤的規劃。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。我想這些我們政府都有一些全盤的規劃。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。\n\n13\n00:05:01,327 --> 00:05:16,664\n蔡政府已經那麼努力了才成長了4.8%我拿今天的新聞來做對比今年四月份光是產力的用電就增加6%已經追不上去了嘛我今天跟你講都是非常殘酷的事實喔所以7月27號是不是要討論一下河山廠的一號機真的要停嗎?\n\n14\n00:05:24,289 --> 00:05:37,094\n關於這個議題的話,就是我們之前我們拱前主委或是我們拱命算也有提到,就是我們這個議題就會尋求全民的共識,然後再做後續的一些決定。國發會去年剛核准這個643億的經費去打造2030年的這個電動化公車嘛對不對?結果現在出現兩個問題了。\n\n15\n00:05:46,997 --> 00:05:56,322\n現在一年耗電啦,我已經統計說差不多七億、八千、三百萬多,現在電到底夠不夠?我們剛剛討論的也是AI的用電、半導體的用電,現在電動車也要用電啦,一年要7億8千3百萬度,這電到底有夠用嗎?\n\n16\n00:06:33,053 --> 00:06:45,202\n現在很多地方連充電廠都沒有怎麼充電一方面是可能有電沒有車一方面是有了車可能也有電連充電廠都沒有啊你們每一次手扇之都現在充電廠都找不到啊這邊要改變\n\n17\n00:06:46,253 --> 00:07:10,734\n所以後面會全力的去充製去裝置充電廠我們很理性科學的問政所以你幾個東西請你要注意而且要給我資料好不好第一個剛講的AI跟半導體它未來的一年它可能會增加多少需要多少電你們要一個預估不只評估你要一個調查報告你兩個禮拜給我OK不OK\n\n18\n00:07:12,835 --> 00:07:37,246\n嗯,應該可以。應該可以,對不對?然後第二個,電動車現在很明顯的就是充電廠就沒有,你們要趕快去可能要做一個協調好不好?我知道台北市政府也很緊張也出來講,台中市政府也出來講,你們要去幫忙。而且要去幫忙,怎麼幫忙你兩個禮拜後給我一個報告,好不好?那個充電廠可不可以一個月?一個月,因為我們還要洽其他相關的部會,好不好?好,謝謝。\n\n19\n00:07:39,107 --> 00:07:39,631\n好,謝謝張啓楷委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n249\t26316\t張啓楷委員發言來請高副主委委員好\n28589\t44018\t今天應該算是今天最新的好消息馬國柯林也是很艱困的挑戰因為半導體業的這個發展熱今天最新的新聞公我們產業的用電創了最近兩年半最大的漲幅\n46109\t46289\t市委員報告\n72648\t99882\t:「充裕、穩定的電力絕對是正本的重中之重。」現在主委是AI專家,對不對?他推AI。AI跟這個精密的晶片啊,半導體都是用電耗電非常大的。不知道這個好消息代表了後面挑戰就非常大的,所以我直接問你很清楚的。目前,半導體這個產業啊,精密的這個晶片啊,占我們用電的比例有多高?一百多電裡面有多少電是用在我們的半導體上面?\n100657\t101618\t我會請教你這件事,請教自己人。\n120080\t139176\t臺積電計畫來加以設廠,用電就增加,當然是樂觀行程我們在爭取的,拜託在用電方面你要多支持。而且國家,你們非常重要,你們國家重要政策發展都是你們在主導,所以你一方面要讓用電是無虞的,一方面我要很清楚,你們說要了解國發會應該要做一個評估,例如說\n141698\t141718\t〔記者訪問〕\n161932\t176330\t其他需要電動化的這兩個現在用電最多啦半導體跟AI它當然也有重疊的地方啦好不好這方面你目前還沒做評估報告嗎我覺得它應該是有做相關因為半導體其實產業在台灣已經很\n178012\t197568\t響鐘響鐘\n197568\t217210\t對。對。對。\n218820\t231464\t:「本來老講這八年只有成長了多少?4.8%耶。就那麼努力的狀況下已經只成長4.8%。那你去做個對比,今天消息,4月份就成長6%。6%當然比4.8%多嘛,對不對?那又有一個危機出現啊。我們7月27號核電3.5%就不見了喔。\n242189\t253720\t請問這是不是簡單的數學成長6%結果努力8年只有再生能源要補上去的只有4.8%結果又有3.5%的核能要不見了這麼簡單的數學那怎麼辦電力會不夠啊\n257623\t279191\t吳委員報告就是說第一個當然就是綠電當然起步比較困難可是我們綠電我們有既定的我們要達到的裝置容量的目標我們會確實會達成那當然你講到說其實就是假設核電沒有延逸的話那我們知道我們中間要補充電力我們是用天然氣\n281191\t299878\t剪煤蒸氣的方式沖綠電的方式來做因應。我想這些我們政府都有一些全盤的規劃。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。我想這些我們政府都有一些全盤的規劃。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。我想這些我們政府都有一些全盤的規劃。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。\n301327\t316664\t蔡政府已經那麼努力了才成長了4.8%我拿今天的新聞來做對比今年四月份光是產力的用電就增加6%已經追不上去了嘛我今天跟你講都是非常殘酷的事實喔所以7月27號是不是要討論一下河山廠的一號機真的要停嗎?\n324289\t337094\t關於這個議題的話,就是我們之前我們拱前主委或是我們拱命算也有提到,就是我們這個議題就會尋求全民的共識,然後再做後續的一些決定。國發會去年剛核准這個643億的經費去打造2030年的這個電動化公車嘛對不對?結果現在出現兩個問題了。\n346997\t356322\t現在一年耗電啦,我已經統計說差不多七億、八千、三百萬多,現在電到底夠不夠?我們剛剛討論的也是AI的用電、半導體的用電,現在電動車也要用電啦,一年要7億8千3百萬度,這電到底有夠用嗎?\n362312\t392312\t響鐘\n393053\t405202\t現在很多地方連充電廠都沒有怎麼充電一方面是可能有電沒有車一方面是有了車可能也有電連充電廠都沒有啊你們每一次手扇之都現在充電廠都找不到啊這邊要改變\n406253\t430734\t所以後面會全力的去充製去裝置充電廠我們很理性科學的問政所以你幾個東西請你要注意而且要給我資料好不好第一個剛講的AI跟半導體它未來的一年它可能會增加多少需要多少電你們要一個預估不只評估你要一個調查報告你兩個禮拜給我OK不OK\n432835\t457246\t嗯,應該可以。應該可以,對不對?然後第二個,電動車現在很明顯的就是充電廠就沒有,你們要趕快去可能要做一個協調好不好?我知道台北市政府也很緊張也出來講,台中市政府也出來講,你們要去幫忙。而且要去幫忙,怎麼幫忙你兩個禮拜後給我一個報告,好不好?那個充電廠可不可以一個月?一個月,因為我們還要洽其他相關的部會,好不好?好,謝謝。\n459107\t459631\t好,謝謝張啓楷委員\n","txt":"張啓楷委員發言來請高副主委委員好\n今天應該算是今天最新的好消息馬國柯林也是很艱困的挑戰因為半導體業的這個發展熱今天最新的新聞公我們產業的用電創了最近兩年半最大的漲幅\n市委員報告\n:「充裕、穩定的電力絕對是正本的重中之重。」現在主委是AI專家,對不對?他推AI。AI跟這個精密的晶片啊,半導體都是用電耗電非常大的。不知道這個好消息代表了後面挑戰就非常大的,所以我直接問你很清楚的。目前,半導體這個產業啊,精密的這個晶片啊,占我們用電的比例有多高?一百多電裡面有多少電是用在我們的半導體上面?\n我會請教你這件事,請教自己人。\n臺積電計畫來加以設廠,用電就增加,當然是樂觀行程我們在爭取的,拜託在用電方面你要多支持。而且國家,你們非常重要,你們國家重要政策發展都是你們在主導,所以你一方面要讓用電是無虞的,一方面我要很清楚,你們說要了解國發會應該要做一個評估,例如說\n〔記者訪問〕\n其他需要電動化的這兩個現在用電最多啦半導體跟AI它當然也有重疊的地方啦好不好這方面你目前還沒做評估報告嗎我覺得它應該是有做相關因為半導體其實產業在台灣已經很\n響鐘響鐘\n對。對。對。\n:「本來老講這八年只有成長了多少?4.8%耶。就那麼努力的狀況下已經只成長4.8%。那你去做個對比,今天消息,4月份就成長6%。6%當然比4.8%多嘛,對不對?那又有一個危機出現啊。我們7月27號核電3.5%就不見了喔。\n請問這是不是簡單的數學成長6%結果努力8年只有再生能源要補上去的只有4.8%結果又有3.5%的核能要不見了這麼簡單的數學那怎麼辦電力會不夠啊\n吳委員報告就是說第一個當然就是綠電當然起步比較困難可是我們綠電我們有既定的我們要達到的裝置容量的目標我們會確實會達成那當然你講到說其實就是假設核電沒有延逸的話那我們知道我們中間要補充電力我們是用天然氣\n剪煤蒸氣的方式沖綠電的方式來做因應。我想這些我們政府都有一些全盤的規劃。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。我想這些我們政府都有一些全盤的規劃。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。我想這些我們政府都有一些全盤的規劃。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。\n蔡政府已經那麼努力了才成長了4.8%我拿今天的新聞來做對比今年四月份光是產力的用電就增加6%已經追不上去了嘛我今天跟你講都是非常殘酷的事實喔所以7月27號是不是要討論一下河山廠的一號機真的要停嗎?\n關於這個議題的話,就是我們之前我們拱前主委或是我們拱命算也有提到,就是我們這個議題就會尋求全民的共識,然後再做後續的一些決定。國發會去年剛核准這個643億的經費去打造2030年的這個電動化公車嘛對不對?結果現在出現兩個問題了。\n現在一年耗電啦,我已經統計說差不多七億、八千、三百萬多,現在電到底夠不夠?我們剛剛討論的也是AI的用電、半導體的用電,現在電動車也要用電啦,一年要7億8千3百萬度,這電到底有夠用嗎?\n響鐘\n現在很多地方連充電廠都沒有怎麼充電一方面是可能有電沒有車一方面是有了車可能也有電連充電廠都沒有啊你們每一次手扇之都現在充電廠都找不到啊這邊要改變\n所以後面會全力的去充製去裝置充電廠我們很理性科學的問政所以你幾個東西請你要注意而且要給我資料好不好第一個剛講的AI跟半導體它未來的一年它可能會增加多少需要多少電你們要一個預估不只評估你要一個調查報告你兩個禮拜給我OK不OK\n嗯,應該可以。應該可以,對不對?然後第二個,電動車現在很明顯的就是充電廠就沒有,你們要趕快去可能要做一個協調好不好?我知道台北市政府也很緊張也出來講,台中市政府也出來講,你們要去幫忙。而且要去幫忙,怎麼幫忙你兩個禮拜後給我一個報告,好不好?那個充電廠可不可以一個月?一個月,因為我們還要洽其他相關的部會,好不好?好,謝謝。\n好,謝謝張啓楷委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.249 --> 00:26.316\n張啓楷委員發言來請高副主委委員好\n\n00:28.589 --> 00:44.018\n今天應該算是今天最新的好消息馬國柯林也是很艱困的挑戰因為半導體業的這個發展熱今天最新的新聞公我們產業的用電創了最近兩年半最大的漲幅\n\n00:46.109 --> 00:46.289\n市委員報告\n\n01:12.648 --> 01:39.882\n:「充裕、穩定的電力絕對是正本的重中之重。」現在主委是AI專家,對不對?他推AI。AI跟這個精密的晶片啊,半導體都是用電耗電非常大的。不知道這個好消息代表了後面挑戰就非常大的,所以我直接問你很清楚的。目前,半導體這個產業啊,精密的這個晶片啊,占我們用電的比例有多高?一百多電裡面有多少電是用在我們的半導體上面?\n\n01:40.657 --> 01:41.618\n我會請教你這件事,請教自己人。\n\n02:00.080 --> 02:19.176\n臺積電計畫來加以設廠,用電就增加,當然是樂觀行程我們在爭取的,拜託在用電方面你要多支持。而且國家,你們非常重要,你們國家重要政策發展都是你們在主導,所以你一方面要讓用電是無虞的,一方面我要很清楚,你們說要了解國發會應該要做一個評估,例如說\n\n02:21.698 --> 02:21.718\n〔記者訪問〕\n\n02:41.932 --> 02:56.330\n其他需要電動化的這兩個現在用電最多啦半導體跟AI它當然也有重疊的地方啦好不好這方面你目前還沒做評估報告嗎我覺得它應該是有做相關因為半導體其實產業在台灣已經很\n\n03:38.820 --> 03:51.464\n:「本來老講這八年只有成長了多少?4.8%耶。就那麼努力的狀況下已經只成長4.8%。那你去做個對比,今天消息,4月份就成長6%。6%當然比4.8%多嘛,對不對?那又有一個危機出現啊。我們7月27號核電3.5%就不見了喔。\n\n04:02.189 --> 04:13.720\n請問這是不是簡單的數學成長6%結果努力8年只有再生能源要補上去的只有4.8%結果又有3.5%的核能要不見了這麼簡單的數學那怎麼辦電力會不夠啊\n\n04:17.623 --> 04:39.191\n吳委員報告就是說第一個當然就是綠電當然起步比較困難可是我們綠電我們有既定的我們要達到的裝置容量的目標我們會確實會達成那當然你講到說其實就是假設核電沒有延逸的話那我們知道我們中間要補充電力我們是用天然氣\n\n04:41.191 --> 04:59.878\n剪煤蒸氣的方式沖綠電的方式來做因應。我想這些我們政府都有一些全盤的規劃。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。我想這些我們政府都有一些全盤的規劃。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。我想這些我們政府都有一些全盤的規劃。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。\n\n05:01.327 --> 05:16.664\n蔡政府已經那麼努力了才成長了4.8%我拿今天的新聞來做對比今年四月份光是產力的用電就增加6%已經追不上去了嘛我今天跟你講都是非常殘酷的事實喔所以7月27號是不是要討論一下河山廠的一號機真的要停嗎?\n\n05:24.289 --> 05:37.094\n關於這個議題的話,就是我們之前我們拱前主委或是我們拱命算也有提到,就是我們這個議題就會尋求全民的共識,然後再做後續的一些決定。國發會去年剛核准這個643億的經費去打造2030年的這個電動化公車嘛對不對?結果現在出現兩個問題了。\n\n05:46.997 --> 05:56.322\n現在一年耗電啦,我已經統計說差不多七億、八千、三百萬多,現在電到底夠不夠?我們剛剛討論的也是AI的用電、半導體的用電,現在電動車也要用電啦,一年要7億8千3百萬度,這電到底有夠用嗎?\n\n06:33.053 --> 06:45.202\n現在很多地方連充電廠都沒有怎麼充電一方面是可能有電沒有車一方面是有了車可能也有電連充電廠都沒有啊你們每一次手扇之都現在充電廠都找不到啊這邊要改變\n\n06:46.253 --> 07:10.734\n所以後面會全力的去充製去裝置充電廠我們很理性科學的問政所以你幾個東西請你要注意而且要給我資料好不好第一個剛講的AI跟半導體它未來的一年它可能會增加多少需要多少電你們要一個預估不只評估你要一個調查報告你兩個禮拜給我OK不OK\n\n07:12.835 --> 07:37.246\n嗯,應該可以。應該可以,對不對?然後第二個,電動車現在很明顯的就是充電廠就沒有,你們要趕快去可能要做一個協調好不好?我知道台北市政府也很緊張也出來講,台中市政府也出來講,你們要去幫忙。而且要去幫忙,怎麼幫忙你兩個禮拜後給我一個報告,好不好?那個充電廠可不可以一個月?一個月,因為我們還要洽其他相關的部會,好不好?好,謝謝。\n\n07:39.107 --> 07:39.631\n好,謝謝張啓楷委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.249,"end":26.316,"text":"張啓楷委員發言來請高副主委委員好"},{"start":28.589,"end":44.018,"text":"今天應該算是今天最新的好消息馬國柯林也是很艱困的挑戰因為半導體業的這個發展熱今天最新的新聞公我們產業的用電創了最近兩年半最大的漲幅"},{"start":46.109,"end":46.289,"text":"市委員報告"},{"start":72.648,"end":99.882,"text":":「充裕、穩定的電力絕對是正本的重中之重。」現在主委是AI專家,對不對?他推AI。AI跟這個精密的晶片啊,半導體都是用電耗電非常大的。不知道這個好消息代表了後面挑戰就非常大的,所以我直接問你很清楚的。目前,半導體這個產業啊,精密的這個晶片啊,占我們用電的比例有多高?一百多電裡面有多少電是用在我們的半導體上面?"},{"start":100.657,"end":101.618,"text":"我會請教你這件事,請教自己人。"},{"start":120.08,"end":139.176,"text":"臺積電計畫來加以設廠,用電就增加,當然是樂觀行程我們在爭取的,拜託在用電方面你要多支持。而且國家,你們非常重要,你們國家重要政策發展都是你們在主導,所以你一方面要讓用電是無虞的,一方面我要很清楚,你們說要了解國發會應該要做一個評估,例如說"},{"start":141.698,"end":141.718,"text":"〔記者訪問〕"},{"start":161.932,"end":176.33,"text":"其他需要電動化的這兩個現在用電最多啦半導體跟AI它當然也有重疊的地方啦好不好這方面你目前還沒做評估報告嗎我覺得它應該是有做相關因為半導體其實產業在台灣已經很"},{"start":178.012,"end":197.568,"text":"響鐘響鐘"},{"start":197.568,"end":217.21,"text":"對。對。對。"},{"start":218.82,"end":231.464,"text":":「本來老講這八年只有成長了多少?4.8%耶。就那麼努力的狀況下已經只成長4.8%。那你去做個對比,今天消息,4月份就成長6%。6%當然比4.8%多嘛,對不對?那又有一個危機出現啊。我們7月27號核電3.5%就不見了喔。"},{"start":242.189,"end":253.72,"text":"請問這是不是簡單的數學成長6%結果努力8年只有再生能源要補上去的只有4.8%結果又有3.5%的核能要不見了這麼簡單的數學那怎麼辦電力會不夠啊"},{"start":257.623,"end":279.191,"text":"吳委員報告就是說第一個當然就是綠電當然起步比較困難可是我們綠電我們有既定的我們要達到的裝置容量的目標我們會確實會達成那當然你講到說其實就是假設核電沒有延逸的話那我們知道我們中間要補充電力我們是用天然氣"},{"start":281.191,"end":299.878,"text":"剪煤蒸氣的方式沖綠電的方式來做因應。我想這些我們政府都有一些全盤的規劃。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。我想這些我們政府都有一些全盤的規劃。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。我想這些我們政府都有一些全盤的規劃。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。剪煤蒸氣的方式來做因應。"},{"start":301.327,"end":316.664,"text":"蔡政府已經那麼努力了才成長了4.8%我拿今天的新聞來做對比今年四月份光是產力的用電就增加6%已經追不上去了嘛我今天跟你講都是非常殘酷的事實喔所以7月27號是不是要討論一下河山廠的一號機真的要停嗎?"},{"start":324.289,"end":337.094,"text":"關於這個議題的話,就是我們之前我們拱前主委或是我們拱命算也有提到,就是我們這個議題就會尋求全民的共識,然後再做後續的一些決定。國發會去年剛核准這個643億的經費去打造2030年的這個電動化公車嘛對不對?結果現在出現兩個問題了。"},{"start":346.997,"end":356.322,"text":"現在一年耗電啦,我已經統計說差不多七億、八千、三百萬多,現在電到底夠不夠?我們剛剛討論的也是AI的用電、半導體的用電,現在電動車也要用電啦,一年要7億8千3百萬度,這電到底有夠用嗎?"},{"start":362.312,"end":392.312,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":393.053,"end":405.202,"text":"現在很多地方連充電廠都沒有怎麼充電一方面是可能有電沒有車一方面是有了車可能也有電連充電廠都沒有啊你們每一次手扇之都現在充電廠都找不到啊這邊要改變"},{"start":406.253,"end":430.734,"text":"所以後面會全力的去充製去裝置充電廠我們很理性科學的問政所以你幾個東西請你要注意而且要給我資料好不好第一個剛講的AI跟半導體它未來的一年它可能會增加多少需要多少電你們要一個預估不只評估你要一個調查報告你兩個禮拜給我OK不OK"},{"start":432.835,"end":457.246,"text":"嗯,應該可以。應該可以,對不對?然後第二個,電動車現在很明顯的就是充電廠就沒有,你們要趕快去可能要做一個協調好不好?我知道台北市政府也很緊張也出來講,台中市政府也出來講,你們要去幫忙。而且要去幫忙,怎麼幫忙你兩個禮拜後給我一個報告,好不好?那個充電廠可不可以一個月?一個月,因為我們還要洽其他相關的部會,好不好?好,謝謝。"},{"start":459.107,"end":459.631,"text":"好,謝謝張啓楷委員"}]}}}}