{"id":152818,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152818","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ec526bb9f1bdce9dc085c380027394323a3b62c5cf6e8dc13b43bbf2d64d2017c8222ff8187d84f65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃秀芳","委員發言時間":"11:40:50 - 11:48:57","影片長度":"00:08:07","會議時間":"2024-05-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、社會福利及衛生環境、教育及文化三委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查：\n一、本院委員羅美玲等20人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十四條條文修正草案」案。\n二、本院委員王定宇等16人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法增訂第二十一條之一條文草案」案。\n三、本院委員邱志偉等20人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十二條條文修正草案」案。\n四、本院委員邱議瑩等19人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(第四案如經復議，則不予審查）。）","date":"2024-05-22","duration":487,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、社會福利及衛生環境、教育及文化三委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[19,26,22],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-19,26,22-1"},"end_time":"2024-05-22T11:48:57+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-22T11:40:50+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":835,"blocks":[["黃委員秀芳：（11時41分）謝謝主席。我們請勞動部跟衛福部。"],["主席：請勞動部及衛福部。"],["陳主任秘書世昌：委員好。"],["黃委員秀芳：勞動部今天列席的是主秘嗎？"],["陳主任秘書世昌：發展署主任秘書陳世昌。"],["黃委員秀芳：是。陳主秘，我想請教，勞動部在這個月月初有一個預告草案，就是擬開放外國人可以從事社會工作師，但要求雇主應該是立案的團體或評鑑合格的機構，最主要就是勞動部要求雇主要增加僑外生留臺的機會。我們知道外國人士本來就可以考臺灣的社工師國考，可以取得社工師的執照，到4月底截止，已有30個人取得社工師的執照。我們知道，即使取得社工師的執照，是不是可以投入職場，這又是另外一個問題。我想請教，衛福部在徵詢勞動部及社工相關專業團體的意見之後，支持開放外國人擔任社工，考到執照是一回事，願意投入這個工作又是另外一回事。這個草案評估之後，勞動部跟衛福部預計一年當中會有多少人來投入，取得社工師的執照？又預計有多少人會投入這個工作？"],["陳主任秘書世昌：是，跟委員報告，這個案子的源起是來自於衛福部在112年主動建議勞動部，把僑外生取得社工師證照的部分納入專業人員這部分來適用，所以這個部分是經過主管機關衛福部的評估，我們也認為在實務上只要能夠確保有一個實習的制度，加上僱用的人員確實是法定的執業處所，就可以來運用。目前誠如委員所講的，就我們所知，在國內的僑外生大概有三十幾位具有這樣子的社工師資格。"],["黃委員秀芳：這個草案通過之後，預計會有多少人取得執照？"],["陳主任秘書世昌：我們是提供這樣子的機會。"],["黃委員秀芳：有多少人可以投入社工師的工作？"],["陳主任秘書世昌：我們是提供這樣子的機會給擁有證照的人。"],["黃委員秀芳：有這樣預估過嗎？"],["陳主任秘書世昌：目前只有三十幾位具有這個資格。"],["黃委員秀芳：我相信如果這個草案通過，也許會有更多人投入也不一定，你們自己本身有沒有去做過這樣的評估？"],["陳主任秘書世昌：坦白講，我們沒有。"],["黃委員秀芳：你們沒有做過這樣的評估？"],["陳主任秘書世昌：是。"],["黃委員秀芳：好，請衛福部。衛福部的列席人員是？"],["王簡任視察燕琴：社工司，我姓王，是簡任視察。"],["黃委員秀芳：我想請教，我剛剛有提到你們有徵詢勞動部跟社工團體，提出建議嘛？"],["王簡任視察燕琴：是。"],["黃委員秀芳：你們自己本身有評估過，這個草案通過之後，大約會有多少人取得執照？大約有多少人會投入社工師的工作？"],["王簡任視察燕琴：目前統計起來，到113年4月，外國人領有社工師證照的有30位，對於未來會投入多少，我們目前是沒有做相關的評估，因為這是在保障他們，依照社會工作師法取得社工師證照，那我們當然要保障他們在實務上能夠執業，所以在經過徵詢勞動部以及社會工作專業團體的意見以後，做成這樣的政策建議，建議勞動部把這一個納為外國人可以在臺灣執行專業性工作的開放項目。"],["黃委員秀芳：好。我們知道社工工作真的非常辛苦，勞動部或社工團體的這些建議，我們也希望衛福部應該針對社工就目前的工作環境、待遇人員所提出來的意見。這個草案通過之後，是不是就真的可以解決目前大家所質疑的社工的工作環境跟待遇的問題？或者是反而會造成一些排擠？"],["王簡任視察燕琴：排擠應該是不至於，因為就誠如剛剛所報告的，這些人實際上現在也只有30位，其實做這樣的政策建議，不是要解決社工人力不足的問題，我們是在保障這些外國人，既然他們依法取得我國的社會工作師證照，我們讓他們在實務上能夠執業。"],["黃委員秀芳：是。"],["王簡任視察燕琴：對於委員所關心的社工人力不足的問題，以及工作環境惡劣的問題，我們也全面性地在做檢討與改善，包括提高社工薪資、補助民間薪資起薪的調整。另外，在公部門也增加了資深社工員的職務，調高薪資的天花板。另外，在整體上，在社安網計畫中，也增加我們的社工專業人力，所以是從全面性地來改善社工的職業環境。"],["黃委員秀芳：好，我想請教，衛福部在去年底你們自己有針對全國22個縣市做統計，社工需求人數總共是4,190人，進用人數是3,733人，進用率是89%。我們知道，在人力密集的地區，其實往往是需求更高，目前看到新北市需求人數是最高，達到562人，進用人數是399人，進用率只有71%。我想請教，社會安全網對社工人員的要求，是希望一定要聘足當年度員額核定的85%，我們看到很多縣市，尤其是六都，新北市需求的人數最高，可是進用的人數只有71%，沒有達到85%，像這樣子的話，雖然這個涉及到地方政府員額進用的問題，衛福部針對這部分，你們未來要怎麼去解決？"],["王簡任視察燕琴：我們已經把社工人力進用率納入社福考核指標。另外，其實各縣市平均進用率已經接近九成，所以整體來說，其實我們的社工人力在這三年之間增加了大概一千多人，所以我們會持續督導地方政府來改善，加強社工人員的進用。"],["黃委員秀芳：好，我再問最後一個問題，因為目前保護性的社工人力是非常吃緊的，第一線的社工必須要逐一到案家去做訪視，我想請教，像你們現在開放之後，有沒有辦法讓外國人力來填補人力的不足？"],["王簡任視察燕琴：這個部分是屬於保護司的業務，因為今天剛好保護司沒有人來，是不是可以把這個問題帶回去？"],["黃委員秀芳：好，那會後再給我資料，好不好？"],["王簡任視察燕琴：是。"],["黃委員秀芳：好，謝謝。"],["王簡任視察燕琴：謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝黃秀芳委員。","接下來我們請陳培瑜委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":76,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-19,26,22-1","speakers":["邱議瑩","王定宇","羅美玲","陳亭妃","林岱樺","邱志偉","楊瓊瓔","萬美玲","賴瑞隆","鄭天財Sra 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\"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"足\", \"start\": 473.941, \"end\": 473.961, \"score\": 0.002}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 475.472, \"end\": 475.572, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 475.572, \"end\": 475.592, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,083 --> 00:00:00,323\n法定人數不足\n\n2\n00:00:21,615 --> 00:00:42,514\n呃,勞動部是主秘嗎?發展署主任秘書陳世昌。是,陳主秘我想請教就是說,勞動部在這個月初有一個預告草案,就是你開放外國人可以從事社會工作室,那要求雇主應該是立案的團體或評鑑合格的機構。\n\n3\n00:00:43,775 --> 00:00:43,815\n黃秀芳議員\n\n4\n00:01:26,738 --> 00:01:26,858\n黃秀芳議員\n\n5\n00:01:50,256 --> 00:02:05,844\n是。跟委員報告,這個案子的源起是來自於衛福部在112年的時候主動建議勞動部這邊有沒有可能把這個外甥、僱外甥這邊他如果取得這個社工失智證照的部分可以納入我們的專業人員這邊來試用。\n\n6\n00:02:07,245 --> 00:02:07,465\n黃秀芳議員\n\n7\n00:02:32,085 --> 00:02:48,599\n那預計這個草案預計如果這個通過之後那預定會有多少人取得這個資格那也有多少人可以投入這個社工師的工作我們是提供這樣的一個機會給這個擁有證照的人那目前已經有三十幾位具有這個資格\n\n8\n00:03:07,830 --> 00:03:26,629\n貴府部是社公司金王檢任市長社公司那我想請教就是說我剛剛有提到就是說你們有徵詢這個勞動部跟這個社工社工團體的這個建議那你們自己本身有\n\n9\n00:03:27,310 --> 00:03:27,570\n黃秀芳議員\n\n10\n00:03:48,243 --> 00:04:04,390\n那對於未來會投入多少我們目前是沒有做相關的評估那因為這是在保障他們依法依照社會工作司法取得的社工師證照那我們當然要保障他在實務上能夠執業所以才經過徵詢勞動部以及社會工作專業團體的意見以後做成這樣的政策建議建議勞動部來把這個納維\n\n11\n00:04:15,898 --> 00:04:43,574\n韓國人可以在臺灣執行這個專業性工作的開放的項目。好,那我想請教就是我們知道說社工的這個工作真的非常的辛苦啦。那當然就是說這個勞動部或者是社工團體的這些建議那最主要我們也希望就是說衛福部應該針對我們社工人員他們所提出來的目前的這個工作環境還有待遇\n\n12\n00:05:01,417 --> 00:05:29,652\n我想排擠應該是不至於因為就陳如剛剛所報告的這些人實際上現行也只有30位那其實做這樣的政策建議不是要解決這個社工人力不足的問題那我們是在保障這些外國人既然依法取得我國的社會工作室證照所以讓他在實務上能夠進行職業那對於委員所關心的這些社工人力不足的問題以及工作環境惡劣的問題\n\n13\n00:05:31,013 --> 00:05:31,053\n黃秀芳議員\n\n14\n00:05:58,197 --> 00:05:58,458\n黃秀芳議員\n\n15\n00:06:13,499 --> 00:06:13,739\n黃秀芳議員\n\n16\n00:06:39,170 --> 00:06:39,330\n黃秀芳議員\n\n17\n00:07:05,319 --> 00:07:05,439\n黃秀芳議員\n\n18\n00:07:32,436 --> 00:07:53,961\n保護性的社工因為目前保護性的社工人力是非常吃緊的那第一線的社工必須要逐一到這個案家去做訪視那我想請教就是說像你們這樣子讓外國人力來填補有沒有辦法就是說我們現在開放之後那這個外國人力來填補這樣的一個不足\n\n19\n00:07:55,472 --> 00:07:55,592\n主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n83\t323\t法定人數不足\n21615\t42514\t呃,勞動部是主秘嗎?發展署主任秘書陳世昌。是,陳主秘我想請教就是說,勞動部在這個月初有一個預告草案,就是你開放外國人可以從事社會工作室,那要求雇主應該是立案的團體或評鑑合格的機構。\n43775\t43815\t黃秀芳議員\n66186\t86698\t響鐘\n86738\t86858\t黃秀芳議員\n110256\t125844\t是。跟委員報告,這個案子的源起是來自於衛福部在112年的時候主動建議勞動部這邊有沒有可能把這個外甥、僱外甥這邊他如果取得這個社工失智證照的部分可以納入我們的專業人員這邊來試用。\n127245\t127465\t黃秀芳議員\n152085\t168599\t那預計這個草案預計如果這個通過之後那預定會有多少人取得這個資格那也有多少人可以投入這個社工師的工作我們是提供這樣的一個機會給這個擁有證照的人那目前已經有三十幾位具有這個資格\n169480\t185657\t響鐘\n187830\t206629\t貴府部是社公司金王檢任市長社公司那我想請教就是說我剛剛有提到就是說你們有徵詢這個勞動部跟這個社工社工團體的這個建議那你們自己本身有\n207310\t207570\t黃秀芳議員\n228243\t244390\t那對於未來會投入多少我們目前是沒有做相關的評估那因為這是在保障他們依法依照社會工作司法取得的社工師證照那我們當然要保障他在實務上能夠執業所以才經過徵詢勞動部以及社會工作專業團體的意見以後做成這樣的政策建議建議勞動部來把這個納維\n255898\t283574\t韓國人可以在臺灣執行這個專業性工作的開放的項目。好,那我想請教就是我們知道說社工的這個工作真的非常的辛苦啦。那當然就是說這個勞動部或者是社工團體的這些建議那最主要我們也希望就是說衛福部應該針對我們社工人員他們所提出來的目前的這個工作環境還有待遇\n283814\t301357\t﹏﹏﹏﹏\n301417\t329652\t我想排擠應該是不至於因為就陳如剛剛所報告的這些人實際上現行也只有30位那其實做這樣的政策建議不是要解決這個社工人力不足的問題那我們是在保障這些外國人既然依法取得我國的社會工作室證照所以讓他在實務上能夠進行職業那對於委員所關心的這些社工人力不足的問題以及工作環境惡劣的問題\n331013\t331053\t黃秀芳議員\n358197\t358458\t黃秀芳議員\n373499\t373739\t黃秀芳議員\n399170\t399330\t黃秀芳議員\n425319\t425439\t黃秀芳議員\n452436\t473961\t保護性的社工因為目前保護性的社工人力是非常吃緊的那第一線的社工必須要逐一到這個案家去做訪視那我想請教就是說像你們這樣子讓外國人力來填補有沒有辦法就是說我們現在開放之後那這個外國人力來填補這樣的一個不足\n475472\t475592\t主席\n","txt":"法定人數不足\n呃,勞動部是主秘嗎?發展署主任秘書陳世昌。是,陳主秘我想請教就是說,勞動部在這個月初有一個預告草案,就是你開放外國人可以從事社會工作室,那要求雇主應該是立案的團體或評鑑合格的機構。\n黃秀芳議員\n響鐘\n黃秀芳議員\n是。跟委員報告,這個案子的源起是來自於衛福部在112年的時候主動建議勞動部這邊有沒有可能把這個外甥、僱外甥這邊他如果取得這個社工失智證照的部分可以納入我們的專業人員這邊來試用。\n黃秀芳議員\n那預計這個草案預計如果這個通過之後那預定會有多少人取得這個資格那也有多少人可以投入這個社工師的工作我們是提供這樣的一個機會給這個擁有證照的人那目前已經有三十幾位具有這個資格\n響鐘\n貴府部是社公司金王檢任市長社公司那我想請教就是說我剛剛有提到就是說你們有徵詢這個勞動部跟這個社工社工團體的這個建議那你們自己本身有\n黃秀芳議員\n那對於未來會投入多少我們目前是沒有做相關的評估那因為這是在保障他們依法依照社會工作司法取得的社工師證照那我們當然要保障他在實務上能夠執業所以才經過徵詢勞動部以及社會工作專業團體的意見以後做成這樣的政策建議建議勞動部來把這個納維\n韓國人可以在臺灣執行這個專業性工作的開放的項目。好,那我想請教就是我們知道說社工的這個工作真的非常的辛苦啦。那當然就是說這個勞動部或者是社工團體的這些建議那最主要我們也希望就是說衛福部應該針對我們社工人員他們所提出來的目前的這個工作環境還有待遇\n﹏﹏﹏﹏\n我想排擠應該是不至於因為就陳如剛剛所報告的這些人實際上現行也只有30位那其實做這樣的政策建議不是要解決這個社工人力不足的問題那我們是在保障這些外國人既然依法取得我國的社會工作室證照所以讓他在實務上能夠進行職業那對於委員所關心的這些社工人力不足的問題以及工作環境惡劣的問題\n黃秀芳議員\n黃秀芳議員\n黃秀芳議員\n黃秀芳議員\n黃秀芳議員\n保護性的社工因為目前保護性的社工人力是非常吃緊的那第一線的社工必須要逐一到這個案家去做訪視那我想請教就是說像你們這樣子讓外國人力來填補有沒有辦法就是說我們現在開放之後那這個外國人力來填補這樣的一個不足\n主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.083 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