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Data聯盟的會長，一直推動政府要開放資料，當我變成公職之後，我希望由我先做起，逐步地來，所以我的公開行程會放在上面，甚至有一些利害相關的族群來拜訪我，我也會把討論的主題公布出來，讓大家可以知道。"],["廖委員偉翔：謝謝。我覺得部長這個概念很好，因為其實我們也會擔心，有一些部長、首長可能會常常私下跟團體或是財團見面，就會造成疑慮，對不對？所以我認為你這樣的精神很好，很值得大家學習。"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，你覺得你這次的業務報告裡面，有沒有缺少什麼？"],["彭部長啓明：缺少什麼……"],["廖委員偉翔：對。"],["彭部長啓明：環境部的東西，包括空水廢土污，其實裡面還是有很多我不了解的，但是我會積極去學習。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，謝謝你的回答。除了今年的碳費，還有氣候變遷之外，還有一個議題我在你的報告裡面沒有看到，也很重要，我認為非常重要就是塑膠公約，塑膠公約最後一次會議將在11月於南韓召開，最快也有可能在年底實施，請教部長，這麼大這麼重要的公約，而且影響面非常的廣，為何在報告中好像沒有提到？是不小心疏漏，還是刻意疏漏？"],["彭部長啓明：其實現在都是草案，年底11月在韓國釜山開會，應該會有一些具體方案出來，我們也積極地在關注、在因應當中。當然減塑是一件大事情，要改變國人的習慣需要大家一起努力，我也會積極跟同仁來討論這件事。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以部長，我國要因應塑膠公約的國家計畫，有沒有要啟動任何的規劃？還是你只是想要請同仁大概了解一下？因為我自己看起來，這件事情是今年在環保上面很重要的事情。"],["彭部長啓明：對，我可不可以請循環署署長來報告一下？"],["廖委員偉翔：好，是。"],["賴署長瑩瑩：在塑膠公約裡面有一個國家計畫是讓我們各國提出一些計晝來遵循塑膠公約的內容，目前這個國家計晝的草案大綱有出來，我們會依照它的大綱，先把國內的現況做一個盤點，然後再看公約的進度，找各部會一起來研商。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以今年會啟動嘛？除了這個國家計畫之外，最重要的還有資源循環促進法，現在的立法進度，尤其是針對產生廢棄物端的事業體徵收資源循環促進費，這個更是其中的重點，所以我想要請教部長，資源循環促進法何時才會送到立法院來？"],["彭部長啓明：目前還在跟相關的利害團體進行溝通，我會請他們再加速一點點，看今年能不能送出來。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，因為你剛來，我要提醒你，環境部說要訂立資源循環促進法已經非常久了，但是每次都是停留在說的階段、了解的階段，然而面對今年底這個塑膠公約有可能會具體來實施，最快的話在年底，就算晚一點，我們算明年好了，這樣子更凸顯我們國家對於這件事情的進度落後，部長可不可以宣示，在本會期結束前將草案送到立法院？"],["賴署長瑩瑩：因為現在我們要進行預告程序跟開會，然後再送到行政院去做審查，我們這邊會儘快。"],["廖委員偉翔：儘快，所以這個會期可以嗎？"],["賴署長瑩瑩：因為還要到行政院審查，才有辦法送出來，所以時程上面……"],["廖委員偉翔：所以你沒有辦法保證這個會期會有？"],["賴署長瑩瑩：對，我們儘快，我們現在下一個目標就是能夠去預告草案，然後送到行政院去審查。"],["廖委員偉翔：希望你可以給一個比較具體的目標，到時候可以給本席，好嗎？"],["賴署長瑩瑩：好。"],["彭部長啓明：好，謝謝委員。"],["廖委員偉翔：再來，環境部在4月29日的時候，預告空氣品質標準的第三條跟第四條，其中有一項非常重要，就是將PM2.5的平均值從15微克要下調為12微克，而環團認為這個新的標準並沒有達到WHO的建議，也就是新指引的年均值是5微克，請教部長，為什麼我們不參照WHO所訂的指引？"],["彭部長啓明：因為我們臺灣是四面環海，有很多的海鹽，其實我們的背景值，像花蓮最好的情況也只有到9而已，如果西半部要像東半部一樣的話，整個改變要非常非常的大，所以我們團隊告訴我，這是我們現在可以到達的一個目標。","我們如果要更往前的話，我有特別請他們在模擬當中有各式各樣的選項，因為包含了重大的污染源、排放源或者是汽機車，其實都要很大量地改變，那個是需要跨部會的合作，所以我個人是希望能夠更低，但是我必須考量現在我們能夠到達的目標。"],["廖委員偉翔：對，我可以理解，務實上，5微克是一個比較長遠的目標。但是之前在衛福部、國衛院的研究，證實空污會增加中風死亡率以及PM 2.5跟肺癌、肺阻塞等有關，而美國環保署的研究也顯示，改善空氣品質的成本效益非常地高，可以算是非常划算的投資，以美國為例，90年代提高標準後，每年減少16萬人死亡，甚至在2020年減少了23萬人，所以環團認為即便是新標準，卻也還是現在的殺人標準，請問部長，你同意嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：基本上，因為臺灣本身的背景值就比較高，所以我必須說，我當然是希望能夠越低越好，但是我們在做的時候有一定的難度，這個部分我有特別請我們團隊持續地做各種的情境模擬，看能不能提出一個更好、更有效率的，因為我們過去減了大概30%，那現在要往下減，其實那個成本效益都很高。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，在今天口頭報告的第12頁，標題是「新空氣二部曲」，次標是「持續提升空品、邁向WHO標準願景」，請教部長，WHO新的指引已經是5微克，但是我們的願景12微克還是比5微克高出了兩倍半，是不是很多？而且這個是你們的願景，假設是願景的話，以後我看到願景，是不是代表你做不到就叫做願景？"],["彭部長啓明：其實在臺灣，如果我們在很乾淨的地方，大概都還有6或7微克，所以以臺灣而言，或是我們東亞而言，這種背景值就很高了，要到WHO的標準真的是非常困難的一件事情。"],["廖委員偉翔：再來就是在第12頁，你們的報告裡面有顯示短期是完成空氣品質標準的發布，也就是我們剛剛說的，15微克要降到12微克，但中期113年到116年寫的卻是13微克，117年到120年才可以達到12微克，這讓我們感覺你訂出來一個法規，可是這個中期目標卻達不到，是訂好玩的嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：其實這個部分我有跟我們司長好好地討論過，現在正在進行各種模擬演算，因為我個人是希望能夠更低啦！但是我也必須考量能不能達得到，是不是請我們司長簡要回答一下？"],["廖委員偉翔：對，因為你設立一個標準是12微克，可是你在中期這裡寫的卻是13微克，就代表你根本達不到，那為什麼要這樣設計？"],["張司長順欽：並不是說目前的空氣品質達到了以後，我們來設一個目前的標準，好比說有一個努力的目標12微克，但是並不是4年內就可以達到12微克，4年內我們可以達到13微克，但是要再往下降，其實它的邊際效益付出的成本會更高，所以到2030年的時候可以達到12微克，是這樣的設計方式。至於下一步會達到什麼，那個是後面要再去演算。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，我們今天就質詢到這裡，謝謝。"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝委員。"],["主席（黃委員秀芳）：謝謝廖偉翔委員的發言。","接下來請徐欣瑩委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":382,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-17","speakers":["黃秀芳","蘇清泉","林月琴","陳菁徽","王正旭","涂權吉","王育敏","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra 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\"score\": 0.288}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 609.782, \"end\": 609.862, \"score\": 0.681}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"廖\", \"start\": 609.862, \"end\": 610.083, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"偉\"}, {\"word\": \"翔\", \"start\": 610.083, \"end\": 610.243, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 610.243, \"end\": 610.383, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 610.383, \"end\": 610.403, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"言\", \"start\": 610.403, \"end\": 610.423, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:10,657 --> 00:00:14,561\n謝謝主席,有請我們彭部長彭部長你好首先恭喜你剛上任兩天那剛剛我想很多人都問過你目前出的這個最重要的目標跟任務是什麼但我想要請反過來問你那你上任之後你認為你比較大的困難跟挑戰會是什麼\n\n2\n00:00:33,667 --> 00:00:49,674\n我覺得就是說大家對於環境的認知大家覺得我包含我們的同仁都很優秀可是其實大家都會把環保放在最後面所以我會努力的把環境保護放在前面讓國人可以知道獲得更高的支持\n\n3\n00:00:51,027 --> 00:01:15,405\n對,但是困難所以這個部分你覺得就是要把這個環保的概念放到第一位是比較困難的因為其實現在年輕朋友對於環境的支持度是非常高的但是大家社會裡面都會覺得這個環境保護等是要經濟發展之後才要來做這個事我希望逐步的來扭轉這個大家的認同可能是要同步發展這樣所以部長有許多業務是必須要跨部會協調甚至可能要行政院層級來統整\n\n4\n00:01:17,586 --> 00:01:30,696\n所以包含著其實大家很關心的所謂碳費啊或是碳稅或者這個綠色產業等等的問題應該它的層級要更高啦但是我想請教部長你覺得環境部有辦法去進行政策的統整嗎\n\n5\n00:01:32,471 --> 00:01:32,611\nOK\n\n6\n00:01:47,899 --> 00:02:05,231\n謝謝部長那你在社務媒體採訪的時候也有講到四大重點的政策那其中有一點我覺得很有趣你放在第四點叫做公開首長行程那請教部長環境部有這麼多重要的政策為何你要把這個公開首長行程這件事情單獨列出來特別強調\n\n7\n00:02:06,292 --> 00:02:32,957\n報告委員其實因為我來自民間我們跟任何的產業界互動都是一個常態但是我也很多的工協會會來拜訪我那我其實過去本身是opendata聯盟的會長一直推動政府要開放資料那當我變成公職了之後我希望由我先做起逐步的來所以任何人我當然我的公開行程會放在上面甚至有一些厲害相關的族群來拜訪我我也會把討論的主題把它公布出來讓大家可以知道\n\n8\n00:02:33,858 --> 00:02:52,958\n謝謝,我覺得這個部長這個概念很好,因為其實也會擔心像其他的部長有一些部長首長可能會常常時下跟一些團體阿或是財團見面可能就會造成疑慮嘛對不對所以我認為你這樣的精神很好很值得大家的這個學習喔那部長你覺得你這次的業務報告裡面有沒有缺少什麼\n\n9\n00:02:55,599 --> 00:03:12,592\n環境部的東西,空水廢塗屋,其實裡面還是有很多我不瞭解的,但是我會積極的來去學習。好,謝謝,謝謝你回答。部長,今年的碳費啊,還有氣候變遷之外,我想還有一個議題,我在你的報告裡面沒有看到,也很重要,我認為非常重要,就是塑膠公約。\n\n10\n00:03:14,053 --> 00:03:33,832\n而社交公約最後一次會議將在11月於南韓召開而且最快也有可能在年底實施請教部長這麼重要的公約而且影響面非常的廣為何這個報告中好像沒有提到是不小心疏漏還是刻意疏漏\n\n11\n00:03:36,670 --> 00:03:54,703\n報告委員其實現在都是草案那年底在11月在韓國這個釜山開那個會應該會有一些這個具體方案再出來那我們也在積極的關注在因應當中那當然這個檢索是一個大事情那要改變國人的習慣就需要大家一起努力那我也會積極跟我同仁來討論這個事\n\n12\n00:03:56,204 --> 00:04:10,715\n所以部長我國要因應這個塑膠工業的國家計畫有沒有這個要啟動的任何的規劃還是你只是想要請同仁大概瞭解一下因為我自己看起來這件事情是今年很重要的這個環保上面的事情我特別請我們徐萬曙署長來報告一下\n\n13\n00:04:12,316 --> 00:04:35,098\n在塑料公約裡面他有一個國家計畫是讓我們各國提出一些計畫來這個遵循這個塑料公約的內容那目前這個國家計畫的一個草案大綱有出來那我們會依照他的大綱先把我們國內的現況做一個盤點然後再看公約的進度來找各部位一起來演商\n\n14\n00:04:36,314 --> 00:04:58,522\n所以今年會啟動嘛那除了各國家計劃之外其實最重要的還有這個資源循環促進法那現在的立法進度尤其是針對產生廢棄物的生產端失業體徵收這個資源循環促進費也更是其中的重點所以我也想要請教部長這個資源循環促進法何時才會送到立法院來\n\n15\n00:04:59,242 --> 00:05:19,239\n目前他都還進行跟這個相關的厲害團體來進行溝通啦我會請他們能夠再加速一點點看能不能今年能夠送出來部長因為你剛來我要提醒你喔因為這個環境部已經說要訂立這個資源循環促進法已經非常的久了但是每次都是停留在說的階段瞭解的階段\n\n16\n00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:48,007\n然而面對到我們今年底這個塑膠公約有可能具體會要來實施最快的話年底就算晚一點我們算明年好了這樣子可以更凸顯我們國家對於這件事情的進度落後你可不可以宣誓在部長可不可以宣誓在這個本會期結束前可以將草案送到立法院因為現在我們要進行這個預告程序跟開會然後再送到行政院去做審查那我們這邊會盡快\n\n17\n00:05:49,452 --> 00:06:07,338\n緊快,所以這個會期可以嗎?因為還要到行政院審查才有辦法送出來所以你沒有辦法保證這個會期會有對,我們現在下一個目標就是能夠去預告草案然後送到行政院去審查那希望你可以給一個比較具體的目標到時候也可以給本席,好嗎?\n\n18\n00:06:09,398 --> 00:06:21,147\n環境部在我們4月29日的時候預告空氣品質標準的第三條跟第四條其中裡面有一項非常重要的就是將PM2.5的平均值從15毫維克\n\n19\n00:06:23,248 --> 00:06:37,345\n要下調為12維克而環團認為這個新的標準並沒有達到WHO的建議也就是新指引的年均值是5維克請教部長為什麼我們不參照這個WHO的所定的指引\n\n20\n00:06:38,286 --> 00:06:52,542\n其實因為我們台灣我們是四面環海我們很多的海岩所以其實我們的背景值像花蓮也差不多最好的情況也只有到9而已所以我們如果我們西半部呢要能夠像這個東半部一樣的話其實整個的改變要非常非常的大\n\n21\n00:06:53,343 --> 00:07:17,151\n這個是我們的團隊告訴我說現在我們可以到達的一個目標那我們如果要更往前的話那我有特別請他們在模擬當中有各式各樣的選項因為包含了這個重大的污染源、排放源或是汽機車其實都要很大量的改變那個是需要跨部會的合作所以我們是我個人是希望能夠再更低但是我必須考量現在我們能夠到達的一個目標\n\n22\n00:07:17,831 --> 00:07:46,358\n對我可以理解務實上這個五維克是一個比較長遠的目標但是部長之前在我們衛福部國衛院的研究也證實空污會增加這個中風死亡率以及PM2.5跟肺癌跟肺阻塞等有關當然美國環保署的研究也顯示改善空氣品質的這個成本效益非常的高可以算是非常划算的投資以美國為例90年代提高這個標準後每年減少16萬人的死亡\n\n23\n00:07:46,658 --> 00:08:14,617\n甚至在2020年的這個數字還達到了減少了23萬人所以環團是認為即便是新標準卻也還是現在的殺人標準請問部長你同意嗎基本上因為包委員那個臺灣的本身的背景值就比較高啦所以我必須說我當然是希望能夠越低越好但是其實有時候我們在做的時候有一定的難度所以這個部分呢我有特別請我們團隊持續的在各種做各種的情境模擬能不能提出一個更好更有效率的因為我們過去\n\n24\n00:08:14,957 --> 00:08:17,218\n但是我們的願景12維克還是比這5維克高出了兩倍半。\n\n25\n00:08:37,938 --> 00:08:59,504\n是不是很多?而且這是你們的願景那假設是願景的話是不是以後我看到願景可以代表說你做不到就叫做願景?報委員其實在台灣如果我們在很乾淨的地方大概都還有大概6或7維克所以其實要到以台灣而言或是我們東亞而言這種背景值就很高了所以要到真的WHO那真的是非常困難的一件事情\n\n26\n00:09:00,134 --> 00:09:11,581\n因為你們在還有再來就是第12頁的時候你們的報告裡面有顯示短期是完成空氣品質標準的發布也就是我們剛剛說的15維克要降到12維克那中期你寫113年到116年報告卻寫的是13維克那要到117年的這個到120年才可以達到12維克\n\n27\n00:09:20,606 --> 00:09:45,659\n所以這讓我們感覺你訂出來這個你訂出來的一個法規可是你這個中期目標卻達不到是訂好玩的嗎?報告委員其實這個部分我有跟我們的司長好好的討論過現在正在進行各種的這個模擬演算希望能夠找到一個因為我個人是希望能夠更低啦但是我必須考量到能不能達得到所以我們是不是請我們司長快\n\n28\n00:09:46,079 --> 00:10:09,302\n對,因為你設立一個標準是12可是你現在中期這裡寫的卻是13那你就代表你根本達不到那為什麼要這樣設計呢?跟委員報告,我們那個並不是說標準目前的空氣品達到以後我們來設一個目前的標準他們說我們更努力的目標是12但是12呢並不是4年內就可以達到124年內我們現在就可以達到13但是要到再往下降呢\n\n29\n00:10:09,782 --> 00:10:10,423\n謝謝委員謝謝廖偉翔委員的發言\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10657\t14561\t謝謝主席,有請我們彭部長彭部長你好首先恭喜你剛上任兩天那剛剛我想很多人都問過你目前出的這個最重要的目標跟任務是什麼但我想要請反過來問你那你上任之後你認為你比較大的困難跟挑戰會是什麼\n33667\t49674\t我覺得就是說大家對於環境的認知大家覺得我包含我們的同仁都很優秀可是其實大家都會把環保放在最後面所以我會努力的把環境保護放在前面讓國人可以知道獲得更高的支持\n51027\t75405\t對,但是困難所以這個部分你覺得就是要把這個環保的概念放到第一位是比較困難的因為其實現在年輕朋友對於環境的支持度是非常高的但是大家社會裡面都會覺得這個環境保護等是要經濟發展之後才要來做這個事我希望逐步的來扭轉這個大家的認同可能是要同步發展這樣所以部長有許多業務是必須要跨部會協調甚至可能要行政院層級來統整\n77586\t90696\t所以包含著其實大家很關心的所謂碳費啊或是碳稅或者這個綠色產業等等的問題應該它的層級要更高啦但是我想請教部長你覺得環境部有辦法去進行政策的統整嗎\n92471\t92611\tOK\n107899\t125231\t謝謝部長那你在社務媒體採訪的時候也有講到四大重點的政策那其中有一點我覺得很有趣你放在第四點叫做公開首長行程那請教部長環境部有這麼多重要的政策為何你要把這個公開首長行程這件事情單獨列出來特別強調\n126292\t152957\t報告委員其實因為我來自民間我們跟任何的產業界互動都是一個常態但是我也很多的工協會會來拜訪我那我其實過去本身是open data聯盟的會長一直推動政府要開放資料那當我變成公職了之後我希望由我先做起逐步的來所以任何人我當然我的公開行程會放在上面甚至有一些厲害相關的族群來拜訪我我也會把討論的主題把它公布出來讓大家可以知道\n153858\t172958\t謝謝,我覺得這個部長這個概念很好,因為其實也會擔心像其他的部長有一些部長首長可能會常常時下跟一些團體阿或是財團見面可能就會造成疑慮嘛對不對所以我認為你這樣的精神很好很值得大家的這個學習喔那部長你覺得你這次的業務報告裡面有沒有缺少什麼\n175599\t192592\t環境部的東西,空水廢塗屋,其實裡面還是有很多我不瞭解的,但是我會積極的來去學習。好,謝謝,謝謝你回答。部長,今年的碳費啊,還有氣候變遷之外,我想還有一個議題,我在你的報告裡面沒有看到,也很重要,我認為非常重要,就是塑膠公約。\n194053\t213832\t而社交公約最後一次會議將在11月於南韓召開而且最快也有可能在年底實施請教部長這麼重要的公約而且影響面非常的廣為何這個報告中好像沒有提到是不小心疏漏還是刻意疏漏\n216670\t234703\t報告委員其實現在都是草案那年底在11月在韓國這個釜山開那個會應該會有一些這個具體方案再出來那我們也在積極的關注在因應當中那當然這個檢索是一個大事情那要改變國人的習慣就需要大家一起努力那我也會積極跟我同仁來討論這個事\n236204\t250715\t所以部長我國要因應這個塑膠工業的國家計畫有沒有這個要啟動的任何的規劃還是你只是想要請同仁大概瞭解一下因為我自己看起來這件事情是今年很重要的這個環保上面的事情我特別請我們徐萬曙署長來報告一下\n252316\t275098\t在塑料公約裡面他有一個國家計畫是讓我們各國提出一些計畫來這個遵循這個塑料公約的內容那目前這個國家計畫的一個草案大綱有出來那我們會依照他的大綱先把我們國內的現況做一個盤點然後再看公約的進度來找各部位一起來演商\n276314\t298522\t所以今年會啟動嘛那除了各國家計劃之外其實最重要的還有這個資源循環促進法那現在的立法進度尤其是針對產生廢棄物的生產端失業體徵收這個資源循環促進費也更是其中的重點所以我也想要請教部長這個資源循環促進法何時才會送到立法院來\n299242\t319239\t目前他都還進行跟這個相關的厲害團體來進行溝通啦我會請他們能夠再加速一點點看能不能今年能夠送出來部長因為你剛來我要提醒你喔因為這個環境部已經說要訂立這個資源循環促進法已經非常的久了但是每次都是停留在說的階段瞭解的階段\n320440\t348007\t然而面對到我們今年底這個塑膠公約有可能具體會要來實施最快的話年底就算晚一點我們算明年好了這樣子可以更凸顯我們國家對於這件事情的進度落後你可不可以宣誓在部長可不可以宣誓在這個本會期結束前可以將草案送到立法院因為現在我們要進行這個預告程序跟開會然後再送到行政院去做審查那我們這邊會盡快\n349452\t367338\t緊快,所以這個會期可以嗎?因為還要到行政院審查才有辦法送出來所以你沒有辦法保證這個會期會有對,我們現在下一個目標就是能夠去預告草案然後送到行政院去審查那希望你可以給一個比較具體的目標到時候也可以給本席,好嗎?\n369398\t381147\t環境部在我們4月29日的時候預告空氣品質標準的第三條跟第四條其中裡面有一項非常重要的就是將PM2.5的平均值從15毫維克\n383248\t397345\t要下調為12維克而環團認為這個新的標準並沒有達到WHO的建議也就是新指引的年均值是5維克請教部長為什麼我們不參照這個WHO的所定的指引\n398286\t412542\t其實因為我們台灣我們是四面環海我們很多的海岩所以其實我們的背景值像花蓮也差不多最好的情況也只有到9而已所以我們如果我們西半部呢要能夠像這個東半部一樣的話其實整個的改變要非常非常的大\n413343\t437151\t這個是我們的團隊告訴我說現在我們可以到達的一個目標那我們如果要更往前的話那我有特別請他們在模擬當中有各式各樣的選項因為包含了這個重大的污染源、排放源或是汽機車其實都要很大量的改變那個是需要跨部會的合作所以我們是我個人是希望能夠再更低但是我必須考量現在我們能夠到達的一個目標\n437831\t466358\t對我可以理解務實上這個五維克是一個比較長遠的目標但是部長之前在我們衛福部國衛院的研究也證實空污會增加這個中風死亡率以及PM2.5跟肺癌跟肺阻塞等有關當然美國環保署的研究也顯示改善空氣品質的這個成本效益非常的高可以算是非常划算的投資以美國為例90年代提高這個標準後每年減少16萬人的死亡\n466658\t494617\t甚至在2020年的這個數字還達到了減少了23萬人所以環團是認為即便是新標準卻也還是現在的殺人標準請問部長你同意嗎基本上因為包委員那個臺灣的本身的背景值就比較高啦所以我必須說我當然是希望能夠越低越好但是其實有時候我們在做的時候有一定的難度所以這個部分呢我有特別請我們團隊持續的在各種做各種的情境模擬能不能提出一個更好更有效率的因為我們過去\n494957\t497218\t但是我們的願景12維克還是比這5維克高出了兩倍半。\n517938\t539504\t是不是很多?而且這是你們的願景那假設是願景的話是不是以後我看到願景可以代表說你做不到就叫做願景?報委員其實在台灣如果我們在很乾淨的地方大概都還有大概6或7維克所以其實要到以台灣而言或是我們東亞而言這種背景值就很高了所以要到真的WHO那真的是非常困難的一件事情\n540134\t551581\t因為你們在還有再來就是第12頁的時候你們的報告裡面有顯示短期是完成空氣品質標準的發布也就是我們剛剛說的15維克要降到12維克那中期你寫113年到116年報告卻寫的是13維克那要到117年的這個到120年才可以達到12維克\n560606\t585659\t所以這讓我們感覺你訂出來這個你訂出來的一個法規可是你這個中期目標卻達不到是訂好玩的嗎?報告委員其實這個部分我有跟我們的司長好好的討論過現在正在進行各種的這個模擬演算希望能夠找到一個因為我個人是希望能夠更低啦但是我必須考量到能不能達得到所以我們是不是請我們司長快\n586079\t609302\t對,因為你設立一個標準是12可是你現在中期這裡寫的卻是13那你就代表你根本達不到那為什麼要這樣設計呢?跟委員報告,我們那個並不是說標準目前的空氣品達到以後我們來設一個目前的標準他們說我們更努力的目標是12但是12呢並不是4年內就可以達到124年內我們現在就可以達到13但是要到再往下降呢\n609782\t610423\t謝謝委員謝謝廖偉翔委員的發言\n","txt":"謝謝主席,有請我們彭部長彭部長你好首先恭喜你剛上任兩天那剛剛我想很多人都問過你目前出的這個最重要的目標跟任務是什麼但我想要請反過來問你那你上任之後你認為你比較大的困難跟挑戰會是什麼\n我覺得就是說大家對於環境的認知大家覺得我包含我們的同仁都很優秀可是其實大家都會把環保放在最後面所以我會努力的把環境保護放在前面讓國人可以知道獲得更高的支持\n對,但是困難所以這個部分你覺得就是要把這個環保的概念放到第一位是比較困難的因為其實現在年輕朋友對於環境的支持度是非常高的但是大家社會裡面都會覺得這個環境保護等是要經濟發展之後才要來做這個事我希望逐步的來扭轉這個大家的認同可能是要同步發展這樣所以部長有許多業務是必須要跨部會協調甚至可能要行政院層級來統整\n所以包含著其實大家很關心的所謂碳費啊或是碳稅或者這個綠色產業等等的問題應該它的層級要更高啦但是我想請教部長你覺得環境部有辦法去進行政策的統整嗎\nOK\n謝謝部長那你在社務媒體採訪的時候也有講到四大重點的政策那其中有一點我覺得很有趣你放在第四點叫做公開首長行程那請教部長環境部有這麼多重要的政策為何你要把這個公開首長行程這件事情單獨列出來特別強調\n報告委員其實因為我來自民間我們跟任何的產業界互動都是一個常態但是我也很多的工協會會來拜訪我那我其實過去本身是open data聯盟的會長一直推動政府要開放資料那當我變成公職了之後我希望由我先做起逐步的來所以任何人我當然我的公開行程會放在上面甚至有一些厲害相關的族群來拜訪我我也會把討論的主題把它公布出來讓大家可以知道\n謝謝,我覺得這個部長這個概念很好,因為其實也會擔心像其他的部長有一些部長首長可能會常常時下跟一些團體阿或是財團見面可能就會造成疑慮嘛對不對所以我認為你這樣的精神很好很值得大家的這個學習喔那部長你覺得你這次的業務報告裡面有沒有缺少什麼\n環境部的東西,空水廢塗屋,其實裡面還是有很多我不瞭解的,但是我會積極的來去學習。好,謝謝,謝謝你回答。部長,今年的碳費啊,還有氣候變遷之外,我想還有一個議題,我在你的報告裡面沒有看到,也很重要,我認為非常重要,就是塑膠公約。\n而社交公約最後一次會議將在11月於南韓召開而且最快也有可能在年底實施請教部長這麼重要的公約而且影響面非常的廣為何這個報告中好像沒有提到是不小心疏漏還是刻意疏漏\n報告委員其實現在都是草案那年底在11月在韓國這個釜山開那個會應該會有一些這個具體方案再出來那我們也在積極的關注在因應當中那當然這個檢索是一個大事情那要改變國人的習慣就需要大家一起努力那我也會積極跟我同仁來討論這個事\n所以部長我國要因應這個塑膠工業的國家計畫有沒有這個要啟動的任何的規劃還是你只是想要請同仁大概瞭解一下因為我自己看起來這件事情是今年很重要的這個環保上面的事情我特別請我們徐萬曙署長來報告一下\n在塑料公約裡面他有一個國家計畫是讓我們各國提出一些計畫來這個遵循這個塑料公約的內容那目前這個國家計畫的一個草案大綱有出來那我們會依照他的大綱先把我們國內的現況做一個盤點然後再看公約的進度來找各部位一起來演商\n所以今年會啟動嘛那除了各國家計劃之外其實最重要的還有這個資源循環促進法那現在的立法進度尤其是針對產生廢棄物的生產端失業體徵收這個資源循環促進費也更是其中的重點所以我也想要請教部長這個資源循環促進法何時才會送到立法院來\n目前他都還進行跟這個相關的厲害團體來進行溝通啦我會請他們能夠再加速一點點看能不能今年能夠送出來部長因為你剛來我要提醒你喔因為這個環境部已經說要訂立這個資源循環促進法已經非常的久了但是每次都是停留在說的階段瞭解的階段\n然而面對到我們今年底這個塑膠公約有可能具體會要來實施最快的話年底就算晚一點我們算明年好了這樣子可以更凸顯我們國家對於這件事情的進度落後你可不可以宣誓在部長可不可以宣誓在這個本會期結束前可以將草案送到立法院因為現在我們要進行這個預告程序跟開會然後再送到行政院去做審查那我們這邊會盡快\n緊快,所以這個會期可以嗎?因為還要到行政院審查才有辦法送出來所以你沒有辦法保證這個會期會有對,我們現在下一個目標就是能夠去預告草案然後送到行政院去審查那希望你可以給一個比較具體的目標到時候也可以給本席,好嗎?\n環境部在我們4月29日的時候預告空氣品質標準的第三條跟第四條其中裡面有一項非常重要的就是將PM2.5的平均值從15毫維克\n要下調為12維克而環團認為這個新的標準並沒有達到WHO的建議也就是新指引的年均值是5維克請教部長為什麼我們不參照這個WHO的所定的指引\n其實因為我們台灣我們是四面環海我們很多的海岩所以其實我們的背景值像花蓮也差不多最好的情況也只有到9而已所以我們如果我們西半部呢要能夠像這個東半部一樣的話其實整個的改變要非常非常的大\n這個是我們的團隊告訴我說現在我們可以到達的一個目標那我們如果要更往前的話那我有特別請他們在模擬當中有各式各樣的選項因為包含了這個重大的污染源、排放源或是汽機車其實都要很大量的改變那個是需要跨部會的合作所以我們是我個人是希望能夠再更低但是我必須考量現在我們能夠到達的一個目標\n對我可以理解務實上這個五維克是一個比較長遠的目標但是部長之前在我們衛福部國衛院的研究也證實空污會增加這個中風死亡率以及PM2.5跟肺癌跟肺阻塞等有關當然美國環保署的研究也顯示改善空氣品質的這個成本效益非常的高可以算是非常划算的投資以美國為例90年代提高這個標準後每年減少16萬人的死亡\n甚至在2020年的這個數字還達到了減少了23萬人所以環團是認為即便是新標準卻也還是現在的殺人標準請問部長你同意嗎基本上因為包委員那個臺灣的本身的背景值就比較高啦所以我必須說我當然是希望能夠越低越好但是其實有時候我們在做的時候有一定的難度所以這個部分呢我有特別請我們團隊持續的在各種做各種的情境模擬能不能提出一個更好更有效率的因為我們過去\n但是我們的願景12維克還是比這5維克高出了兩倍半。\n是不是很多?而且這是你們的願景那假設是願景的話是不是以後我看到願景可以代表說你做不到就叫做願景?報委員其實在台灣如果我們在很乾淨的地方大概都還有大概6或7維克所以其實要到以台灣而言或是我們東亞而言這種背景值就很高了所以要到真的WHO那真的是非常困難的一件事情\n因為你們在還有再來就是第12頁的時候你們的報告裡面有顯示短期是完成空氣品質標準的發布也就是我們剛剛說的15維克要降到12維克那中期你寫113年到116年報告卻寫的是13維克那要到117年的這個到120年才可以達到12維克\n所以這讓我們感覺你訂出來這個你訂出來的一個法規可是你這個中期目標卻達不到是訂好玩的嗎?報告委員其實這個部分我有跟我們的司長好好的討論過現在正在進行各種的這個模擬演算希望能夠找到一個因為我個人是希望能夠更低啦但是我必須考量到能不能達得到所以我們是不是請我們司長快\n對,因為你設立一個標準是12可是你現在中期這裡寫的卻是13那你就代表你根本達不到那為什麼要這樣設計呢?跟委員報告,我們那個並不是說標準目前的空氣品達到以後我們來設一個目前的標準他們說我們更努力的目標是12但是12呢並不是4年內就可以達到124年內我們現在就可以達到13但是要到再往下降呢\n謝謝委員謝謝廖偉翔委員的發言\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.657 --> 00:14.561\n謝謝主席,有請我們彭部長彭部長你好首先恭喜你剛上任兩天那剛剛我想很多人都問過你目前出的這個最重要的目標跟任務是什麼但我想要請反過來問你那你上任之後你認為你比較大的困難跟挑戰會是什麼\n\n00:33.667 --> 00:49.674\n我覺得就是說大家對於環境的認知大家覺得我包含我們的同仁都很優秀可是其實大家都會把環保放在最後面所以我會努力的把環境保護放在前面讓國人可以知道獲得更高的支持\n\n00:51.027 --> 01:15.405\n對,但是困難所以這個部分你覺得就是要把這個環保的概念放到第一位是比較困難的因為其實現在年輕朋友對於環境的支持度是非常高的但是大家社會裡面都會覺得這個環境保護等是要經濟發展之後才要來做這個事我希望逐步的來扭轉這個大家的認同可能是要同步發展這樣所以部長有許多業務是必須要跨部會協調甚至可能要行政院層級來統整\n\n01:17.586 --> 01:30.696\n所以包含著其實大家很關心的所謂碳費啊或是碳稅或者這個綠色產業等等的問題應該它的層級要更高啦但是我想請教部長你覺得環境部有辦法去進行政策的統整嗎\n\n01:32.471 --> 01:32.611\nOK\n\n01:47.899 --> 02:05.231\n謝謝部長那你在社務媒體採訪的時候也有講到四大重點的政策那其中有一點我覺得很有趣你放在第四點叫做公開首長行程那請教部長環境部有這麼多重要的政策為何你要把這個公開首長行程這件事情單獨列出來特別強調\n\n02:06.292 --> 02:32.957\n報告委員其實因為我來自民間我們跟任何的產業界互動都是一個常態但是我也很多的工協會會來拜訪我那我其實過去本身是opendata聯盟的會長一直推動政府要開放資料那當我變成公職了之後我希望由我先做起逐步的來所以任何人我當然我的公開行程會放在上面甚至有一些厲害相關的族群來拜訪我我也會把討論的主題把它公布出來讓大家可以知道\n\n02:33.858 --> 02:52.958\n謝謝,我覺得這個部長這個概念很好,因為其實也會擔心像其他的部長有一些部長首長可能會常常時下跟一些團體阿或是財團見面可能就會造成疑慮嘛對不對所以我認為你這樣的精神很好很值得大家的這個學習喔那部長你覺得你這次的業務報告裡面有沒有缺少什麼\n\n02:55.599 --> 03:12.592\n環境部的東西,空水廢塗屋,其實裡面還是有很多我不瞭解的,但是我會積極的來去學習。好,謝謝,謝謝你回答。部長,今年的碳費啊,還有氣候變遷之外,我想還有一個議題,我在你的報告裡面沒有看到,也很重要,我認為非常重要,就是塑膠公約。\n\n03:14.053 --> 03:33.832\n而社交公約最後一次會議將在11月於南韓召開而且最快也有可能在年底實施請教部長這麼重要的公約而且影響面非常的廣為何這個報告中好像沒有提到是不小心疏漏還是刻意疏漏\n\n03:36.670 --> 03:54.703\n報告委員其實現在都是草案那年底在11月在韓國這個釜山開那個會應該會有一些這個具體方案再出來那我們也在積極的關注在因應當中那當然這個檢索是一個大事情那要改變國人的習慣就需要大家一起努力那我也會積極跟我同仁來討論這個事\n\n03:56.204 --> 04:10.715\n所以部長我國要因應這個塑膠工業的國家計畫有沒有這個要啟動的任何的規劃還是你只是想要請同仁大概瞭解一下因為我自己看起來這件事情是今年很重要的這個環保上面的事情我特別請我們徐萬曙署長來報告一下\n\n04:12.316 --> 04:35.098\n在塑料公約裡面他有一個國家計畫是讓我們各國提出一些計畫來這個遵循這個塑料公約的內容那目前這個國家計畫的一個草案大綱有出來那我們會依照他的大綱先把我們國內的現況做一個盤點然後再看公約的進度來找各部位一起來演商\n\n04:36.314 --> 04:58.522\n所以今年會啟動嘛那除了各國家計劃之外其實最重要的還有這個資源循環促進法那現在的立法進度尤其是針對產生廢棄物的生產端失業體徵收這個資源循環促進費也更是其中的重點所以我也想要請教部長這個資源循環促進法何時才會送到立法院來\n\n04:59.242 --> 05:19.239\n目前他都還進行跟這個相關的厲害團體來進行溝通啦我會請他們能夠再加速一點點看能不能今年能夠送出來部長因為你剛來我要提醒你喔因為這個環境部已經說要訂立這個資源循環促進法已經非常的久了但是每次都是停留在說的階段瞭解的階段\n\n05:20.440 --> 05:48.007\n然而面對到我們今年底這個塑膠公約有可能具體會要來實施最快的話年底就算晚一點我們算明年好了這樣子可以更凸顯我們國家對於這件事情的進度落後你可不可以宣誓在部長可不可以宣誓在這個本會期結束前可以將草案送到立法院因為現在我們要進行這個預告程序跟開會然後再送到行政院去做審查那我們這邊會盡快\n\n05:49.452 --> 06:07.338\n緊快,所以這個會期可以嗎?因為還要到行政院審查才有辦法送出來所以你沒有辦法保證這個會期會有對,我們現在下一個目標就是能夠去預告草案然後送到行政院去審查那希望你可以給一個比較具體的目標到時候也可以給本席,好嗎?\n\n06:09.398 --> 06:21.147\n環境部在我們4月29日的時候預告空氣品質標準的第三條跟第四條其中裡面有一項非常重要的就是將PM2.5的平均值從15毫維克\n\n06:23.248 --> 06:37.345\n要下調為12維克而環團認為這個新的標準並沒有達到WHO的建議也就是新指引的年均值是5維克請教部長為什麼我們不參照這個WHO的所定的指引\n\n06:38.286 --> 06:52.542\n其實因為我們台灣我們是四面環海我們很多的海岩所以其實我們的背景值像花蓮也差不多最好的情況也只有到9而已所以我們如果我們西半部呢要能夠像這個東半部一樣的話其實整個的改變要非常非常的大\n\n06:53.343 --> 07:17.151\n這個是我們的團隊告訴我說現在我們可以到達的一個目標那我們如果要更往前的話那我有特別請他們在模擬當中有各式各樣的選項因為包含了這個重大的污染源、排放源或是汽機車其實都要很大量的改變那個是需要跨部會的合作所以我們是我個人是希望能夠再更低但是我必須考量現在我們能夠到達的一個目標\n\n07:17.831 --> 07:46.358\n對我可以理解務實上這個五維克是一個比較長遠的目標但是部長之前在我們衛福部國衛院的研究也證實空污會增加這個中風死亡率以及PM2.5跟肺癌跟肺阻塞等有關當然美國環保署的研究也顯示改善空氣品質的這個成本效益非常的高可以算是非常划算的投資以美國為例90年代提高這個標準後每年減少16萬人的死亡\n\n07:46.658 --> 08:14.617\n甚至在2020年的這個數字還達到了減少了23萬人所以環團是認為即便是新標準卻也還是現在的殺人標準請問部長你同意嗎基本上因為包委員那個臺灣的本身的背景值就比較高啦所以我必須說我當然是希望能夠越低越好但是其實有時候我們在做的時候有一定的難度所以這個部分呢我有特別請我們團隊持續的在各種做各種的情境模擬能不能提出一個更好更有效率的因為我們過去\n\n08:14.957 --> 08:17.218\n但是我們的願景12維克還是比這5維克高出了兩倍半。\n\n08:37.938 --> 08:59.504\n是不是很多?而且這是你們的願景那假設是願景的話是不是以後我看到願景可以代表說你做不到就叫做願景?報委員其實在台灣如果我們在很乾淨的地方大概都還有大概6或7維克所以其實要到以台灣而言或是我們東亞而言這種背景值就很高了所以要到真的WHO那真的是非常困難的一件事情\n\n09:00.134 --> 09:11.581\n因為你們在還有再來就是第12頁的時候你們的報告裡面有顯示短期是完成空氣品質標準的發布也就是我們剛剛說的15維克要降到12維克那中期你寫113年到116年報告卻寫的是13維克那要到117年的這個到120年才可以達到12維克\n\n09:20.606 --> 09:45.659\n所以這讓我們感覺你訂出來這個你訂出來的一個法規可是你這個中期目標卻達不到是訂好玩的嗎?報告委員其實這個部分我有跟我們的司長好好的討論過現在正在進行各種的這個模擬演算希望能夠找到一個因為我個人是希望能夠更低啦但是我必須考量到能不能達得到所以我們是不是請我們司長快\n\n09:46.079 --> 10:09.302\n對,因為你設立一個標準是12可是你現在中期這裡寫的卻是13那你就代表你根本達不到那為什麼要這樣設計呢?跟委員報告,我們那個並不是說標準目前的空氣品達到以後我們來設一個目前的標準他們說我們更努力的目標是12但是12呢並不是4年內就可以達到124年內我們現在就可以達到13但是要到再往下降呢\n\n10:09.782 --> 10:10.423\n謝謝委員謝謝廖偉翔委員的發言\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.657,"end":14.561,"text":"謝謝主席,有請我們彭部長彭部長你好首先恭喜你剛上任兩天那剛剛我想很多人都問過你目前出的這個最重要的目標跟任務是什麼但我想要請反過來問你那你上任之後你認為你比較大的困難跟挑戰會是什麼"},{"start":33.667,"end":49.674,"text":"我覺得就是說大家對於環境的認知大家覺得我包含我們的同仁都很優秀可是其實大家都會把環保放在最後面所以我會努力的把環境保護放在前面讓國人可以知道獲得更高的支持"},{"start":51.027,"end":75.405,"text":"對,但是困難所以這個部分你覺得就是要把這個環保的概念放到第一位是比較困難的因為其實現在年輕朋友對於環境的支持度是非常高的但是大家社會裡面都會覺得這個環境保護等是要經濟發展之後才要來做這個事我希望逐步的來扭轉這個大家的認同可能是要同步發展這樣所以部長有許多業務是必須要跨部會協調甚至可能要行政院層級來統整"},{"start":77.586,"end":90.696,"text":"所以包含著其實大家很關心的所謂碳費啊或是碳稅或者這個綠色產業等等的問題應該它的層級要更高啦但是我想請教部長你覺得環境部有辦法去進行政策的統整嗎"},{"start":92.471,"end":92.611,"text":"OK"},{"start":107.899,"end":125.231,"text":"謝謝部長那你在社務媒體採訪的時候也有講到四大重點的政策那其中有一點我覺得很有趣你放在第四點叫做公開首長行程那請教部長環境部有這麼多重要的政策為何你要把這個公開首長行程這件事情單獨列出來特別強調"},{"start":126.292,"end":152.957,"text":"報告委員其實因為我來自民間我們跟任何的產業界互動都是一個常態但是我也很多的工協會會來拜訪我那我其實過去本身是open data聯盟的會長一直推動政府要開放資料那當我變成公職了之後我希望由我先做起逐步的來所以任何人我當然我的公開行程會放在上面甚至有一些厲害相關的族群來拜訪我我也會把討論的主題把它公布出來讓大家可以知道"},{"start":153.858,"end":172.958,"text":"謝謝,我覺得這個部長這個概念很好,因為其實也會擔心像其他的部長有一些部長首長可能會常常時下跟一些團體阿或是財團見面可能就會造成疑慮嘛對不對所以我認為你這樣的精神很好很值得大家的這個學習喔那部長你覺得你這次的業務報告裡面有沒有缺少什麼"},{"start":175.599,"end":192.592,"text":"環境部的東西,空水廢塗屋,其實裡面還是有很多我不瞭解的,但是我會積極的來去學習。好,謝謝,謝謝你回答。部長,今年的碳費啊,還有氣候變遷之外,我想還有一個議題,我在你的報告裡面沒有看到,也很重要,我認為非常重要,就是塑膠公約。"},{"start":194.053,"end":213.832,"text":"而社交公約最後一次會議將在11月於南韓召開而且最快也有可能在年底實施請教部長這麼重要的公約而且影響面非常的廣為何這個報告中好像沒有提到是不小心疏漏還是刻意疏漏"},{"start":216.67,"end":234.703,"text":"報告委員其實現在都是草案那年底在11月在韓國這個釜山開那個會應該會有一些這個具體方案再出來那我們也在積極的關注在因應當中那當然這個檢索是一個大事情那要改變國人的習慣就需要大家一起努力那我也會積極跟我同仁來討論這個事"},{"start":236.204,"end":250.715,"text":"所以部長我國要因應這個塑膠工業的國家計畫有沒有這個要啟動的任何的規劃還是你只是想要請同仁大概瞭解一下因為我自己看起來這件事情是今年很重要的這個環保上面的事情我特別請我們徐萬曙署長來報告一下"},{"start":252.316,"end":275.098,"text":"在塑料公約裡面他有一個國家計畫是讓我們各國提出一些計畫來這個遵循這個塑料公約的內容那目前這個國家計畫的一個草案大綱有出來那我們會依照他的大綱先把我們國內的現況做一個盤點然後再看公約的進度來找各部位一起來演商"},{"start":276.314,"end":298.522,"text":"所以今年會啟動嘛那除了各國家計劃之外其實最重要的還有這個資源循環促進法那現在的立法進度尤其是針對產生廢棄物的生產端失業體徵收這個資源循環促進費也更是其中的重點所以我也想要請教部長這個資源循環促進法何時才會送到立法院來"},{"start":299.242,"end":319.239,"text":"目前他都還進行跟這個相關的厲害團體來進行溝通啦我會請他們能夠再加速一點點看能不能今年能夠送出來部長因為你剛來我要提醒你喔因為這個環境部已經說要訂立這個資源循環促進法已經非常的久了但是每次都是停留在說的階段瞭解的階段"},{"start":320.44,"end":348.007,"text":"然而面對到我們今年底這個塑膠公約有可能具體會要來實施最快的話年底就算晚一點我們算明年好了這樣子可以更凸顯我們國家對於這件事情的進度落後你可不可以宣誓在部長可不可以宣誓在這個本會期結束前可以將草案送到立法院因為現在我們要進行這個預告程序跟開會然後再送到行政院去做審查那我們這邊會盡快"},{"start":349.452,"end":367.338,"text":"緊快,所以這個會期可以嗎?因為還要到行政院審查才有辦法送出來所以你沒有辦法保證這個會期會有對,我們現在下一個目標就是能夠去預告草案然後送到行政院去審查那希望你可以給一個比較具體的目標到時候也可以給本席,好嗎?"},{"start":369.398,"end":381.147,"text":"環境部在我們4月29日的時候預告空氣品質標準的第三條跟第四條其中裡面有一項非常重要的就是將PM2.5的平均值從15毫維克"},{"start":383.248,"end":397.345,"text":"要下調為12維克而環團認為這個新的標準並沒有達到WHO的建議也就是新指引的年均值是5維克請教部長為什麼我們不參照這個WHO的所定的指引"},{"start":398.286,"end":412.542,"text":"其實因為我們台灣我們是四面環海我們很多的海岩所以其實我們的背景值像花蓮也差不多最好的情況也只有到9而已所以我們如果我們西半部呢要能夠像這個東半部一樣的話其實整個的改變要非常非常的大"},{"start":413.343,"end":437.151,"text":"這個是我們的團隊告訴我說現在我們可以到達的一個目標那我們如果要更往前的話那我有特別請他們在模擬當中有各式各樣的選項因為包含了這個重大的污染源、排放源或是汽機車其實都要很大量的改變那個是需要跨部會的合作所以我們是我個人是希望能夠再更低但是我必須考量現在我們能夠到達的一個目標"},{"start":437.831,"end":466.358,"text":"對我可以理解務實上這個五維克是一個比較長遠的目標但是部長之前在我們衛福部國衛院的研究也證實空污會增加這個中風死亡率以及PM2.5跟肺癌跟肺阻塞等有關當然美國環保署的研究也顯示改善空氣品質的這個成本效益非常的高可以算是非常划算的投資以美國為例90年代提高這個標準後每年減少16萬人的死亡"},{"start":466.658,"end":494.617,"text":"甚至在2020年的這個數字還達到了減少了23萬人所以環團是認為即便是新標準卻也還是現在的殺人標準請問部長你同意嗎基本上因為包委員那個臺灣的本身的背景值就比較高啦所以我必須說我當然是希望能夠越低越好但是其實有時候我們在做的時候有一定的難度所以這個部分呢我有特別請我們團隊持續的在各種做各種的情境模擬能不能提出一個更好更有效率的因為我們過去"},{"start":494.957,"end":497.218,"text":"但是我們的願景12維克還是比這5維克高出了兩倍半。"},{"start":517.938,"end":539.504,"text":"是不是很多?而且這是你們的願景那假設是願景的話是不是以後我看到願景可以代表說你做不到就叫做願景?報委員其實在台灣如果我們在很乾淨的地方大概都還有大概6或7維克所以其實要到以台灣而言或是我們東亞而言這種背景值就很高了所以要到真的WHO那真的是非常困難的一件事情"},{"start":540.134,"end":551.581,"text":"因為你們在還有再來就是第12頁的時候你們的報告裡面有顯示短期是完成空氣品質標準的發布也就是我們剛剛說的15維克要降到12維克那中期你寫113年到116年報告卻寫的是13維克那要到117年的這個到120年才可以達到12維克"},{"start":560.606,"end":585.659,"text":"所以這讓我們感覺你訂出來這個你訂出來的一個法規可是你這個中期目標卻達不到是訂好玩的嗎?報告委員其實這個部分我有跟我們的司長好好的討論過現在正在進行各種的這個模擬演算希望能夠找到一個因為我個人是希望能夠更低啦但是我必須考量到能不能達得到所以我們是不是請我們司長快"},{"start":586.079,"end":609.302,"text":"對,因為你設立一個標準是12可是你現在中期這裡寫的卻是13那你就代表你根本達不到那為什麼要這樣設計呢?跟委員報告,我們那個並不是說標準目前的空氣品達到以後我們來設一個目前的標準他們說我們更努力的目標是12但是12呢並不是4年內就可以達到124年內我們現在就可以達到13但是要到再往下降呢"},{"start":609.782,"end":610.423,"text":"謝謝委員謝謝廖偉翔委員的發言"}]}}}}