{"id":152827,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152827","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ec526bb9f1bdce9d8f485fcbe85fa36c6fc1a8a999f94a213b43bbf2d64d20177884b307e7568acc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"11:57:58 - 12:08:31","影片長度":"00:10:33","會議時間":"2024-05-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：邀請文化部部長李遠列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【5月22日及23日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-22","duration":633,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-13"},"end_time":"2024-05-22T12:08:31+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-22T11:57:58+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":624,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（11時58分）麻煩請文化部長，謝謝。"],["主席：有請李部長。"],["葉委員元之：部長好。"],["李部長遠：委員，你好。"],["葉委員元之：本席還是想要關心一下臺灣館的事，剛才也有很多人關心。本席覺得非常不尋常的是，這家公司叫蹦世界，如果它會做出抄襲的行為，代表它不是一家非常好的公司，所以政府不應該時常、頻繁的和這家公司來往。但是我們看到，蹦世界從2017年開始到2024年，這7、8年間，光是中央機關，它大概就做了7,185萬元的標案，這個金額非常龐大，和教育文化相關的標案，它大概也做了2,253萬元。","本席知道部長是新任，可能對這個過程不是很了解，但這件事情鬧的非常大，你有沒有去了解一下，這家廠商為什麼可以這麼頻繁的接到政府標案？會抄襲，而且抄襲被抓到還不承認，還說謊，這麼惡劣的廠商，政府為什麼一直把標案給他們做？部長。"],["李部長遠：關於這件事情，我覺得抄襲很不對，但是硬拗更不對，我希望這件事情給我們很大的警惕，文化部會針對這件事情澈底檢討。我覺得事情已經發生了，我希望因為這件事情讓我們重新檢討標案的方式，還有重新加強SOP機制，希望未來不要再發生。"],["葉委員元之：部長，你沒有回答本席的問題啦！本席是問，你也認為這是很爛的廠商，我們希望你也能新官上任三把火，你有沒有去了解一下，這麼爛的廠商為什麼可以做這麼多的政府標案？"],["李部長遠：因為你剛才提到這麼爛的廠商這些字眼，我也不知道該……"],["葉委員元之：好，沒關係，就是做出這種行為的廠商，如果部長認為他們很好的話，本席也尊重你啦！你覺得這麼好的廠商……"],["李部長遠：我不是這樣……"],["葉委員元之：但是它有抄襲和硬拗、說謊的問題，你覺得為什麼我們的文化單位或是其他單位這麼喜歡和它合作？"],["李部長遠：這點我真的不知道，如果是我自己，我不會這樣做。"],["葉委員元之：本席建議，因為您剛上任，可能千頭萬緒事情很多，但這件事情是國人關注的，不然不會有那麼多委員問你，是不是可以去查一下？"],["李部長遠：對。我們已經在查，而且會很快處理。"],["葉委員元之：有幾件事情要做，第一件事情是要問一下臺文館，為什麼在這件事情發生的第一時間，他們完全採信廠商的說法，還幫廠商說話，為什麼？他們是怎麼查的？為什麼完全相信廠商？"],["李部長遠：可以請次長回答嗎？因為我真的不曉得該怎麼答這個問題。"],["葉委員元之：部長覺得呢？"],["李部長遠：我覺得滿離譜的。"],["葉委員元之：很離譜嘛！所以次長，你覺得離譜嗎？請次長回答啦！"],["李部長遠：如果你問我個人，我是覺得滿離譜的，但是問我為什麼會這樣，我不知道。"],["葉委員元之：你不知道吧？次長，為什麼？"],["李次長靜慧：稍微補充說明一下剛才委員提到的，為什麼這家廠商可以一而再、再而三的拿到文學館數位導覽的案子，那是……"],["葉委員元之：不只文學館，他們光是中央機關就做了7,185萬元，和教育文化相關的是2,253萬元，臺文館是1,259萬元。"],["李次長靜慧：其他機關是如何得標，這個部分我不清楚，我沒辦法代為回答。但是臺文館這7年來一直委託它做數位導覽這一塊，關於數位導覽，事實上以前它做的大部分是把我們的……"],["葉委員元之：次長，沒有關係，那個問題已經過了，你只要回答本席，你們後來是怎麼查的？為什麼臺文館第一時間是相信廠商，幫廠商說謊？"],["李次長靜慧：這個部分……"],["葉委員元之：為什麼會相信？怎麼查的？請你把查證的過程告訴本席。"],["李次長靜慧：因為這個標案，它會派兩個駐點人員在文學館，是負責臉書頁面的小編，他們有編輯權。在負責這個部分時，他們同時要做遊戲室的導覽，因為這個駐點人員……"],["葉委員元之：你不用說了，這些大家都知道，本席問的問題是什麼？請你針對問題回答啦！這樣時間又過去了啦！這就是為什麼要通過藐視國會罪。"],["李次長靜慧：好的。所以這兩個駐點人員在文學館工作……"],["葉委員元之：你們是怎麼查的？為什麼第一時間沒有查清楚，就出來幫廠商背書？"],["李次長靜慧：因為同仁就是單純問駐點人員，這個圖案是不是你自己做的？是不是你自己畫的？這個駐點人員告訴我們的同仁，這是他和他妹妹合作的。"],["葉委員元之：原來臺文館的查證過程是這麼粗糙。他自己抄襲不想承認，所以就這樣告訴臺文館，臺文館也完全採用他的說法，還出來幫他硬拗。"],["李次長靜慧：對，這部分的確是我們的疏失。"],["葉委員元之：這非常誇張，好不好？就是想要息事寧人，就是想要大事化小，就是想要掩蓋你們做得不好的地方。第二個，本席想請教一下，有沒有因為這件事情去查一下，例如這個廠商曾經經手的標案，或者是文化部轄下其他有關文創的產品，可能是廠商自稱原創，但是有可能涉及抄襲。有沒有開始著手調查？"],["李次長靜慧：有，這個部分已經開始。"],["葉委員元之：查了幾間？查了多少？準備要查多少？"],["李次長靜慧：現在就是至少查蹦世界這7年內承辦的還有沒有其他由他們提供的圖案、這些圖案是不是原創、有沒有抄襲的嫌疑。"],["葉委員元之：你們怎麼查？會不會又去找那個小編問他是不是抄襲的，他說不是就相信了，會這樣查嗎？"],["李次長靜慧：沒有。我們這次會利用以圖查圖的方式，先做初步的檢視。"],["葉委員元之：所以你們有查證的方法嘛！但是你們沒有用，第一時間就是想要掩飾。"],["李次長靜慧：是的，這是我們失職的部分。"],["葉委員元之：第三，請教一下，現在被抄襲的那個繪圖師已經要跨海提告，到時候如果有訴訟費用，或者有賠償問題，這個錢由誰出？"],["李次長靜慧：臺文館必須先面對這個中國繪師，如果他有任何提告或者有產生費用，我們會轉向蹦世界求償，並且追究他們的刑事責任。"],["葉委員元之：是，你們要去向他們求償，但如果他們用脫產或其他方式規避的話，最後是不是全民買單？"],["李次長靜慧：不會。因為我們已經正式向地檢署提告，所以廠商會被限制行為，我們靠司法解決。"],["葉委員元之：本席問的問題是，對方現在是向臺文館求償嘛！對不對？"],["李次長靜慧：對。中國繪師有向臺文館求償，也有向蹦世界求償。"],["葉委員元之：如果臺文館被判有連帶責任或是什麼責任，需要賠償的話，你們現在的做法就是去向廠商求償嘛！"],["李次長靜慧：是的。"],["葉委員元之：到時候如果求償不到，這筆錢誰要出？你確定求償得到嗎？"],["李次長靜慧：就看法律怎麼規定，我們就依照規定來進行。"],["葉委員元之：本席現在問的是，如果沒有求償到，錢由誰出？全民買單？"],["李次長靜慧：這部分就看依行政方面的規定要怎麼做，我沒辦法回復。"],["葉委員元之：那就是全民買單啦！再來，本席提醒你幾件事，因為我們去看了臺文館的標案，真的很奇怪。昨天我們的助理特別去調它的結案報告，本席覺得結案報告裡面有很多特別的地方，請你去查一下。例如結案報告書裡面列了很多實際上和它不是很相關的標案，但卻被它當作服務的實績。","舉例來說，像有一個文學樂園美國小天地，這個是臺文館另一個標案的一個項目，那個標案叫做美國現代主義。可是本席不知道為什麼，你們已經另外起了一個標案，在這個標案下面的一個小活動卻要找蹦世界的人協助，這個過程非常奇怪，請你去查一下，好不好？第二，我們往下看，剛才說到美國現代主義文學特展開幕及推廣活動規劃執行，這是一個標案，72萬元，得標廠商叫開物空間文創有限公司。","總共有兩家去投標，另外一家沒有得標，叫卡芙創意設計行銷有限公司。很奇怪的地方在於，我們看到文學館在藝文活動平台列出來的整個團隊，就是紅框框的地方，開幕活動是由卡芙創意設計行銷有限公司負責的。卡芙創意設計行銷公司之前沒有得到這個標案，但是它卻做了這個標案的內容，為什麼呢？","這個標案的名稱寫的非常清楚，就是這個特展的開幕及推廣活動，推廣是由得標廠商開物來做，但是開幕卻由卡芙來做，本席覺得非常奇怪，這兩家廠商的關係到底是什麼？是同一家廠商嗎？是同一個負責人呢？還是他們的工作團隊其實是同一個？為了在投標的時候不要讓人家覺得是綁標，所以這兩家都來投標，這非常的奇怪。次長，你應該不會知道那麼細的案子啦！請你去查一下，好不好？"],["李次長靜慧：好的。"],["葉委員元之：為什麼會出現這個狀況？沒有得標的廠商居然可以做這個案子的其中一部分，你會不會覺得很奇怪？"],["李次長靜慧：先初步向委員說明一下，的確，這個案子我先前並沒有了解過細節，剛才臺文館館長向我做的說明是，臺文館有另外一個標案，是全年度臺文館的開幕活動，那個開幕活動得標的是卡芙創意設計。"],["葉委員元之：對，但是你自己看開物這個得標廠商的標案名稱是什麼？是美國現代主義文學特展開幕及推廣活動，等於是一個開幕有兩個標案啊！你們怎麼分？預算隨便花嗎？難不成開幕不是交給一個廠商做嗎？為什麼開幕要找兩家廠商來做？這都是民脂民膏，都是納稅人的錢，我們要把關，不是這樣亂搞的，好嗎？"],["李次長靜慧：好的。"],["葉委員元之：請你去查清楚，事後再補報告給本席，謝謝。"],["李次長靜慧：沒有問題，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝葉元之委員，部長請回。"],["李部長遠：好，謝謝。"],["主席：接下來請吳沛憶委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":154,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-13","speakers":["林宜瑾","萬美玲","柯志恩","洪孟楷","羅廷瑋","葛如鈞","陳秀寳","張雅琳","陳培瑜","郭昱晴","吳春城","范雲","葉元之","吳沛憶","蘇巧慧","林倩綺","楊瓊瓔","麥玉珍","高金素梅","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","張智倫","陳冠廷","林楚茵"],"page_start":85,"meetingDate":["2024-05-22"],"gazette_id":"1135001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135001_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請文化部部長李遠列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1135001_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"152827","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152827","tool":"pyannote","id":"152827-pyannote"},"job_id":"PQNM4fU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不然不會有很多人問你是不是可以去查一下我們已經在查而且會很快這個幾件事情第一個事情要問一下臺文館為什麼在第一時間這個事情發生的時候他是完全採信廠商的說法還在幫廠商說話是為什麼 這過程當中是怎麼查的為什麼完全相信廠商\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 141.412, \"end\": 141.532, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"真\", \"start\": 141.532, \"end\": 141.652, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 141.652, \"end\": 141.812, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 141.812, \"end\": 141.932, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 141.932, \"end\": 142.052, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 142.052, \"end\": 142.213, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 142.213, \"end\": 142.353, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 142.353, \"end\": 142.473, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 142.473, \"end\": 142.653, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 142.653, \"end\": 142.773, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"己\", \"start\": 142.773, \"end\": 142.893, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": 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\"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 631.073, \"end\": 631.213, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 631.213, \"end\": 631.233, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,249 --> 00:00:12,104\n葉元之委員麻煩請文化部長謝謝好有請李部長\n\n2\n00:00:16,803 --> 00:00:36,198\n部長好委員你好我還是想要關心一下那個台灣管事啦我知道當很多人關心喔因為我覺得非常不尋常是這家公司叫蹦世界嘛如果他會做出這種抄襲的行為啊代表說他不是一個非常好的公司所以政府不應該很時常很平凡的跟這家公司來往\n\n3\n00:00:36,818 --> 00:00:51,603\n但是我們看到這家Bone世界公司從2017一七年開始到二零二四年七八年間光是中央機關總預算他就做了大概七千一百八十五萬的表案這表案的金額是非常龐大\n\n4\n00:00:52,563 --> 00:01:16,949\n那跟我們教育文化相關的標案他大概做了兩千兩百五十三萬那我知道部長因為你也是新任啊可能你對這過程也不是太了解但這個事情會鬧得非常大你們去了解一下這個廠商他是為什麼可以這麼頻繁的接到我們政府的標案就是說會抄襲而且會抄襲被抓到還不承認還說謊這麼惡劣的廠商我們政府為什麼一直把標案給他做啊部長\n\n5\n00:01:21,946 --> 00:01:48,979\n這件事情我覺得抄襲很不對但是硬拗更不對然後我希望這件事情給我們很大的警惕我們整個文化部會針對這件事情徹底檢討我覺得事情已經發生了那我希望這件事情給我們帶來重新檢討我們的標案方式還有重新加強我們的SOP機制未來希望不要再發生這樣沒有回答我的問題啦我是問說為什麼你都認為那麼爛的廠商\n\n6\n00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:57,489\n那我們希望你也星光上任三把火嘛那你有沒有去了解一下這麼爛的廠商為什麼他可以做到政府這麼多的表案\n\n7\n00:01:59,315 --> 00:02:20,692\n我要講因為你剛剛提到說這麼爛的廠商這些字眼我也不知道那沒關係就是有做出這樣行為的廠商如果部長你要問他很好的話我也尊重你啦你覺得這麼好的廠商是不是很有抄襲跟硬拗說謊的問題那你覺得為什麼過去我們的文化單位或其他單位那麼喜歡跟他合作\n\n8\n00:02:21,412 --> 00:02:46,344\n這點我真的不知道要是我自己我不會這樣說我建議您是剛上任可能牽頭換去很多但因為這個事情是國人關注的不然不會有很多人問你是不是可以去查一下我們已經在查而且會很快這個幾件事情第一個事情要問一下臺文館為什麼在第一時間這個事情發生的時候他是完全採信廠商的說法還在幫廠商說話是為什麼這過程當中是怎麼查的為什麼完全相信廠商\n\n9\n00:02:52,572 --> 00:03:02,178\n這點應該誰來回答?可以次長回答嗎?因為我真的不知道該怎麼答這個。那不然你覺得咧?我覺得蠻離譜啊。很離譜嗎?那次長你覺得離譜嗎?請次長回答啦。你問我個人我就覺得蠻離譜,但是為什麼我不知道。那次長為什麼?\n\n10\n00:03:16,475 --> 00:03:33,164\n這個案子稍微補充說明一下剛剛委員您有提到說為什麼這個廠商可以一而再再而三的拿到文學館的這個數位導覽的案子不只不只文學館光是中央機關就做了7185萬跟教育文化相關是2253萬台灣館是1259萬\n\n11\n00:03:37,622 --> 00:04:02,891\n因為其他機關是如何得標這個部分我不清楚我沒有辦法代為回答那至少在臺文館所委託他的這7年來我們一直委託他做的是所謂的數位數位導覽的這一塊那數位導覽裡面事實上以前他做的大部分是把我那個這樣因為沒關係那個問題已經過了你只要回答我說你們後來怎麼查的為什麼臺文館第一時間是相信廠商然後幫廠商說謊\n\n12\n00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:30,772\n這個部分為什麼會相信為什麼會相信對因為怎麼查的你把查的過程先跟我講這個標案裡面最主要他會派駐兩個駐典人員在文學館裡面負責整個臉書頁面的小編還有編輯權那因為在負責這個裡面他同時要做一個所謂遊戲式的導覽你不要講這個大家都知道是我問什麼問題我問什麼問題\n\n13\n00:04:32,253 --> 00:05:00,512\n好沒有就是說為什麼你回答啦因為這樣時間又過了啦這兩個注點人員在對你們是怎麼查的為什麼第一時間沒有查清楚就出來幫廠商背書為什麼因為同仁他就是單純的問注點人員說這個圖案是不是你自己做是不是你自己畫的那這個注點人員告訴我們的同仁說這是他跟他所以是原來台灣館在查這個過程是這麼的粗糙\n\n14\n00:05:01,232 --> 00:05:10,906\n就是說他自己抄襲不想承認告訴你們台灣館你們台灣館就完全採用他的說法出來幫他硬拗這個很誇張好不好這個第一個非常誇張就是想要息事寧人就是想要大事化小\n\n15\n00:05:16,454 --> 00:05:35,007\n就想要掩蓋你們做不好的地方第二個我想請教一下有沒有因為這件事情去查一下比如說這個廠商曾經經過的標案或者是說你們文化部狹下其他有關於文創產品可能是廠商自稱原創但是有可能涉及抄襲的有沒有開始著手去查\n\n16\n00:05:35,427 --> 00:06:04,086\n有有查了幾間開始查多少準備要查多少我們現在就至少蹦世界所呃承辦的這7年內還有沒有其他他們所提供的圖案這些圖案是不是原創的有沒有什麼那你們怎麼查會不會又是叫那個小編來問一下說哎是不是超是不是超的哦不是哦不是相信你會這樣查嗎我們就會利用所謂以圖查圖的這個方式哦所以一個出面的所以你們有查的方法嗎但是你們沒有用嗎第一時間就是想要演示嗎這是我們\n\n17\n00:06:05,567 --> 00:06:32,848\n請教一下現在被抄的那個會徒師他已經要跨海提告請問一下到時候如果說有訴訟費用或者是有賠償問題這個錢誰出如果台灣館必須先面對這個中國會師如果還有任何的提告那如果就產生了一些費用我們會轉了跟蹦世界這邊來求償是你們要去跟他求償那如果說他要脫產啊他要用什麼方式規避的話那是不是最後全民買單\n\n18\n00:06:34,293 --> 00:06:48,442\n因為這個部分我們已經正式跟地檢署那邊提告了然後所以這部分廠商如何被限制行為的這個我們就靠司法這邊來我問的問題是說你他現在是跟台灣管球場對不對\n\n19\n00:06:50,752 --> 00:07:14,321\n那如果說他中國會師他也有跟台灣如果台灣管被判說有連帶責任或什麼責任要付賠償的話你現在的做法是要去跟這個廠商求償嗎如果到時候求償不到的話這筆錢誰要出你確定求償到嗎沒有就在法律上怎麼規定那如果現在問的就是如果沒有求償到嘛誰錢誰出嘛確定買單\n\n20\n00:07:17,595 --> 00:07:44,618\n這部分就看行政上面那就是全民買單啊那就是全民買單啊好然後再來我提醒你幾件事啦因為我們去看了一下台灣館這個標案真的很奇怪啦我昨天我們助理特別去調他們檢案報告檢案報告裡面有很多我覺得蠻特別的地方那請你去查一下比如說那個他們檢案報告書裡面列了很多實際上和他們並不是太相關的標案都把它當作是服務的時機\n\n21\n00:07:46,516 --> 00:08:10,828\n主義來講好像有一個叫做什麼文學樂園美國小天地這實際上是在台灣管另外一個標案裡面的一個項目那另外那個標案叫做美國現代主義可是我不知道為什麼你們已經另外起了一個標案然後在這個標案下面的其中一個小活動又要找這個碰世界的人來做協助這個過程來說非常的奇怪啦請你去查一下好不好第二\n\n22\n00:08:12,145 --> 00:08:36,988\n還有齁我們接下來往下看齁剛剛講到那個美國現代主義文學特展開幕及推廣活動規劃執行這是一個標案72萬得標廠商叫開悟空間文創有限公司那總共兩家去投標另外一家沒有得標叫卡福創意設計行銷有限公司然後很奇怪的地方是在於說我們看到文學館在藝文活動平台所列出來\n\n23\n00:08:38,149 --> 00:08:48,320\n他的整個團隊裡面在我們用框框框起來開幕活動的地方他就是由卡福創意設計行銷有限公司來做的\n\n24\n00:08:49,173 --> 00:09:09,868\n卡芙創意設計行銷他之前沒有得到這個標案但是呢他卻做了這個標案的內容那為什麼呢因為這個標案的名稱寫得非常清楚就是這個特展的開幕及推廣活動就是開幕及推廣可是推廣呢就是由得標廠商開幕來做但是\n\n25\n00:09:10,969 --> 00:09:32,569\n開幕開幕就卡福來做那我就非常奇怪這兩個廠商關係到底是什麼是同一家廠商嗎同一個負責人嗎還是他們的工作團隊其實同一個但是為了要在投標的時候不要讓人家覺得是綁標所以這兩家都來投標這非常的奇怪市長你應該不會知道那麼細的案子啦請你去查一下好不好\n\n26\n00:09:33,670 --> 00:10:00,444\n請查一下為什麼會出現這個狀況就是沒有得標的廠商居然可以來做這個案子的其中一個部分這你會不會覺得很奇怪先初步跟委員說明一下的確這個案子我先前並沒有這個細節那剛剛台灣館館長跟我做的說明是台灣館有另外一個標案是對於全年度台灣館會發生的開幕活動還有另外一個標案所以那個開幕活動得標的是卡福創藝術\n\n27\n00:10:01,184 --> 00:10:10,250\n但是你自己看開幕得標廠商標案名稱是什麼美國現代主義文學特產開幕及推廣活動等於你一個開幕兩個標案吶\n\n28\n00:10:12,799 --> 00:10:31,233\n那你怎麼去分?這個預算隨便花的喔?難不成說開幕就交給一個廠商做嗎?那為什麼開幕要找兩個廠商來做?所以這錢這都是民脂民膏,就是納稅人的錢我們要把關,不是這樣亂搞好嗎?好請查清楚,在事後報告給我,謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n249\t12104\t葉元之委員麻煩請文化部長謝謝好有請李部長\n16803\t36198\t部長好 委員你好 我還是想要關心一下那個台灣管事啦 我知道當很多人關心喔 因為我覺得非常不尋常是 這家公司叫蹦世界嘛 如果他會做出這種抄襲的行為啊 代表說他不是一個非常好的公司 所以政府不應該很時常很平凡的跟這家公司來往\n36818\t51603\t但是我們看到這家Bone世界公司從2017一七年開始到二零二四年七八年間光是中央機關總預算他就做了大概七千一百八十五萬的表案這表案的金額是非常龐大\n52563\t76949\t那跟我們教育文化相關的標案他大概做了兩千兩百五十三萬那我知道部長因為你也是新任啊可能你對這過程也不是太了解但這個事情會鬧得非常大你們去了解一下這個廠商他是為什麼可以這麼頻繁的接到我們政府的標案就是說會抄襲而且會抄襲被抓到還不承認還說謊這麼惡劣的廠商我們政府為什麼一直把標案給他做啊部長\n81946\t108979\t這件事情我覺得抄襲很不對但是硬拗更不對然後我希望這件事情給我們很大的警惕我們整個文化部會針對這件事情徹底檢討我覺得事情已經發生了那我希望這件事情給我們帶來重新檢討我們的標案方式還有重新加強我們的SOP機制未來希望不要再發生這樣沒有回答我的問題啦我是問說為什麼你都認為那麼爛的廠商\n110640\t117489\t那我們希望你也星光上任三把火嘛那你有沒有去了解一下這麼爛的廠商為什麼他可以做到政府這麼多的表案\n119315\t140692\t我要講因為你剛剛提到說這麼爛的廠商這些字眼我也不知道那沒關係就是有做出這樣行為的廠商如果部長你要問他很好的話我也尊重你啦你覺得這麼好的廠商是不是很有抄襲跟硬拗說謊的問題那你覺得為什麼過去我們的文化單位或其他單位那麼喜歡跟他合作\n141412\t166344\t這點我真的不知道 要是我自己我不會這樣說我建議您是剛上任可能牽頭換去很多但因為這個事情是國人關注的 不然不會有很多人問你是不是可以去查一下我們已經在查而且會很快這個幾件事情第一個事情要問一下臺文館為什麼在第一時間這個事情發生的時候他是完全採信廠商的說法還在幫廠商說話是為什麼 這過程當中是怎麼查的為什麼完全相信廠商\n172572\t182178\t這點應該誰來回答?可以次長回答嗎?因為我真的不知道該怎麼答這個。那不然你覺得咧?我覺得蠻離譜啊。很離譜嗎?那次長你覺得離譜嗎?請次長回答啦。你問我個人我就覺得蠻離譜,但是為什麼我不知道。那次長為什麼?\n196475\t213164\t這個案子稍微補充說明一下剛剛委員您有提到說為什麼這個廠商可以一而再再而三的拿到文學館的這個數位導覽的案子不只不只文學館光是中央機關就做了7185萬跟教育文化相關是2253萬台灣館是1259萬\n217622\t242891\t因為其他機關是如何得標這個部分我不清楚我沒有辦法代為回答那至少在臺文館所委託他的這7年來我們一直委託他做的是所謂的數位數位導覽的這一塊那數位導覽裡面事實上以前他做的大部分是把我那個這樣因為沒關係那個問題已經過了你只要回答我說你們後來怎麼查的為什麼臺文館第一時間是相信廠商然後幫廠商說謊\n246960\t270772\t這個部分為什麼會相信為什麼會相信對因為怎麼查的你把查的過程先跟我講這個標案裡面最主要他會派駐兩個駐典人員在文學館裡面負責整個臉書頁面的小編還有編輯權那因為在負責這個裡面他同時要做一個所謂遊戲式的導覽你不要講這個大家都知道是我問什麼問題我問什麼問題\n272253\t300512\t好沒有就是說為什麼你回答啦因為這樣時間又過了啦這兩個注點人員在對你們是怎麼查的為什麼第一時間沒有查清楚就出來幫廠商背書為什麼因為同仁他就是單純的問注點人員說這個圖案是不是你自己做是不是你自己畫的那這個注點人員告訴我們的同仁說這是他跟他所以是原來台灣館在查這個過程是這麼的粗糙\n301232\t310906\t就是說他自己抄襲不想承認告訴你們台灣館你們台灣館就完全採用他的說法出來幫他硬拗這個很誇張好不好這個第一個非常誇張就是想要息事寧人就是想要大事化小\n316454\t335007\t就想要掩蓋你們做不好的地方第二個我想請教一下有沒有因為這件事情去查一下比如說這個廠商曾經經過的標案或者是說你們文化部狹下其他有關於文創產品可能是廠商自稱原創但是有可能涉及抄襲的有沒有開始著手去查\n335427\t364086\t有有查了幾間開始查多少準備要查多少我們現在就至少蹦世界所呃承辦的這7年內還有沒有其他他們所提供的圖案這些圖案是不是原創的有沒有什麼那你們怎麼查會不會又是叫那個小編來問一下說哎是不是超是不是超的哦不是哦不是相信你會這樣查嗎我們就會利用所謂以圖查圖的這個方式哦所以一個出面的所以你們有查的方法嗎但是你們沒有用嗎第一時間就是想要演示嗎這是我們\n365567\t392848\t請教一下現在被抄的那個會徒師他已經要跨海提告請問一下到時候如果說有訴訟費用或者是有賠償問題這個錢誰出如果台灣館必須先面對這個中國會師如果還有任何的提告那如果就產生了一些費用我們會轉了跟蹦世界這邊來求償是你們要去跟他求償那如果說他要脫產啊他要用什麼方式規避的話那是不是最後全民買單\n394293\t408442\t因為這個部分我們已經正式跟地檢署那邊提告了然後所以這部分廠商如何被限制行為的這個我們就靠司法這邊來我問的問題是說你他現在是跟台灣管球場對不對\n410752\t434321\t那如果說他中國會師他也有跟台灣如果台灣管被判說有連帶責任或什麼責任要付賠償的話你現在的做法是要去跟這個廠商求償嗎如果到時候求償不到的話這筆錢誰要出你確定求償到嗎沒有就在法律上怎麼規定那如果現在問的就是如果沒有求償到嘛誰錢誰出嘛確定買單\n437595\t464618\t這部分就看行政上面那就是全民買單啊那就是全民買單啊好然後再來我提醒你幾件事啦因為我們去看了一下台灣館這個標案真的很奇怪啦我昨天我們助理特別去調他們檢案報告檢案報告裡面有很多我覺得蠻特別的地方那請你去查一下比如說那個他們檢案報告書裡面列了很多實際上和他們並不是太相關的標案都把它當作是服務的時機\n466516\t490828\t主義來講好像有一個叫做什麼文學樂園美國小天地這實際上是在台灣管另外一個標案裡面的一個項目那另外那個標案叫做美國現代主義可是我不知道為什麼你們已經另外起了一個標案然後在這個標案下面的其中一個小活動又要找這個碰世界的人來做協助這個過程來說非常的奇怪啦請你去查一下好不好第二\n492145\t516988\t還有齁我們接下來往下看齁剛剛講到那個美國現代主義文學特展開幕及推廣活動規劃執行這是一個標案72萬得標廠商叫開悟空間文創有限公司那總共兩家去投標另外一家沒有得標叫卡福創意設計行銷有限公司然後很奇怪的地方是在於說我們看到文學館在藝文活動平台所列出來\n518149\t528320\t他的整個團隊裡面在我們用框框框起來開幕活動的地方他就是由卡福創意設計行銷有限公司來做的\n529173\t549868\t卡芙創意設計行銷他之前沒有得到這個標案但是呢他卻做了這個標案的內容那為什麼呢因為這個標案的名稱寫得非常清楚就是這個特展的開幕及推廣活動就是開幕及推廣可是推廣呢就是由得標廠商開幕來做但是\n550969\t572569\t開幕開幕就卡福來做那我就非常奇怪這兩個廠商關係到底是什麼是同一家廠商嗎同一個負責人嗎還是他們的工作團隊其實同一個但是為了要在投標的時候不要讓人家覺得是綁標所以這兩家都來投標這非常的奇怪市長你應該不會知道那麼細的案子啦請你去查一下好不好\n573670\t600444\t請查一下為什麼會出現這個狀況就是沒有得標的廠商居然可以來做這個案子的其中一個部分這你會不會覺得很奇怪先初步跟委員說明一下的確這個案子我先前並沒有這個細節那剛剛台灣館館長跟我做的說明是台灣館有另外一個標案是對於全年度台灣館會發生的開幕活動還有另外一個標案所以那個開幕活動得標的是卡福創藝術\n601184\t610250\t但是你自己看開幕得標廠商標案名稱是什麼美國現代主義文學特產開幕及推廣活動等於你一個開幕兩個標案吶\n612799\t631233\t那你怎麼去分?這個預算隨便花的喔?難不成說開幕就交給一個廠商做嗎?那為什麼開幕要找兩個廠商來做?所以這錢這都是民脂民膏,就是納稅人的錢我們要把關,不是這樣亂搞好嗎?好請查清楚,在事後報告給我,謝謝\n","txt":"葉元之委員麻煩請文化部長謝謝好有請李部長\n部長好 委員你好 我還是想要關心一下那個台灣管事啦 我知道當很多人關心喔 因為我覺得非常不尋常是 這家公司叫蹦世界嘛 如果他會做出這種抄襲的行為啊 代表說他不是一個非常好的公司 所以政府不應該很時常很平凡的跟這家公司來往\n但是我們看到這家Bone世界公司從2017一七年開始到二零二四年七八年間光是中央機關總預算他就做了大概七千一百八十五萬的表案這表案的金額是非常龐大\n那跟我們教育文化相關的標案他大概做了兩千兩百五十三萬那我知道部長因為你也是新任啊可能你對這過程也不是太了解但這個事情會鬧得非常大你們去了解一下這個廠商他是為什麼可以這麼頻繁的接到我們政府的標案就是說會抄襲而且會抄襲被抓到還不承認還說謊這麼惡劣的廠商我們政府為什麼一直把標案給他做啊部長\n這件事情我覺得抄襲很不對但是硬拗更不對然後我希望這件事情給我們很大的警惕我們整個文化部會針對這件事情徹底檢討我覺得事情已經發生了那我希望這件事情給我們帶來重新檢討我們的標案方式還有重新加強我們的SOP機制未來希望不要再發生這樣沒有回答我的問題啦我是問說為什麼你都認為那麼爛的廠商\n那我們希望你也星光上任三把火嘛那你有沒有去了解一下這麼爛的廠商為什麼他可以做到政府這麼多的表案\n我要講因為你剛剛提到說這麼爛的廠商這些字眼我也不知道那沒關係就是有做出這樣行為的廠商如果部長你要問他很好的話我也尊重你啦你覺得這麼好的廠商是不是很有抄襲跟硬拗說謊的問題那你覺得為什麼過去我們的文化單位或其他單位那麼喜歡跟他合作\n這點我真的不知道 要是我自己我不會這樣說我建議您是剛上任可能牽頭換去很多但因為這個事情是國人關注的 不然不會有很多人問你是不是可以去查一下我們已經在查而且會很快這個幾件事情第一個事情要問一下臺文館為什麼在第一時間這個事情發生的時候他是完全採信廠商的說法還在幫廠商說話是為什麼 這過程當中是怎麼查的為什麼完全相信廠商\n這點應該誰來回答?可以次長回答嗎?因為我真的不知道該怎麼答這個。那不然你覺得咧?我覺得蠻離譜啊。很離譜嗎?那次長你覺得離譜嗎?請次長回答啦。你問我個人我就覺得蠻離譜,但是為什麼我不知道。那次長為什麼?\n這個案子稍微補充說明一下剛剛委員您有提到說為什麼這個廠商可以一而再再而三的拿到文學館的這個數位導覽的案子不只不只文學館光是中央機關就做了7185萬跟教育文化相關是2253萬台灣館是1259萬\n因為其他機關是如何得標這個部分我不清楚我沒有辦法代為回答那至少在臺文館所委託他的這7年來我們一直委託他做的是所謂的數位數位導覽的這一塊那數位導覽裡面事實上以前他做的大部分是把我那個這樣因為沒關係那個問題已經過了你只要回答我說你們後來怎麼查的為什麼臺文館第一時間是相信廠商然後幫廠商說謊\n這個部分為什麼會相信為什麼會相信對因為怎麼查的你把查的過程先跟我講這個標案裡面最主要他會派駐兩個駐典人員在文學館裡面負責整個臉書頁面的小編還有編輯權那因為在負責這個裡面他同時要做一個所謂遊戲式的導覽你不要講這個大家都知道是我問什麼問題我問什麼問題\n好沒有就是說為什麼你回答啦因為這樣時間又過了啦這兩個注點人員在對你們是怎麼查的為什麼第一時間沒有查清楚就出來幫廠商背書為什麼因為同仁他就是單純的問注點人員說這個圖案是不是你自己做是不是你自己畫的那這個注點人員告訴我們的同仁說這是他跟他所以是原來台灣館在查這個過程是這麼的粗糙\n就是說他自己抄襲不想承認告訴你們台灣館你們台灣館就完全採用他的說法出來幫他硬拗這個很誇張好不好這個第一個非常誇張就是想要息事寧人就是想要大事化小\n就想要掩蓋你們做不好的地方第二個我想請教一下有沒有因為這件事情去查一下比如說這個廠商曾經經過的標案或者是說你們文化部狹下其他有關於文創產品可能是廠商自稱原創但是有可能涉及抄襲的有沒有開始著手去查\n有有查了幾間開始查多少準備要查多少我們現在就至少蹦世界所呃承辦的這7年內還有沒有其他他們所提供的圖案這些圖案是不是原創的有沒有什麼那你們怎麼查會不會又是叫那個小編來問一下說哎是不是超是不是超的哦不是哦不是相信你會這樣查嗎我們就會利用所謂以圖查圖的這個方式哦所以一個出面的所以你們有查的方法嗎但是你們沒有用嗎第一時間就是想要演示嗎這是我們\n請教一下現在被抄的那個會徒師他已經要跨海提告請問一下到時候如果說有訴訟費用或者是有賠償問題這個錢誰出如果台灣館必須先面對這個中國會師如果還有任何的提告那如果就產生了一些費用我們會轉了跟蹦世界這邊來求償是你們要去跟他求償那如果說他要脫產啊他要用什麼方式規避的話那是不是最後全民買單\n因為這個部分我們已經正式跟地檢署那邊提告了然後所以這部分廠商如何被限制行為的這個我們就靠司法這邊來我問的問題是說你他現在是跟台灣管球場對不對\n那如果說他中國會師他也有跟台灣如果台灣管被判說有連帶責任或什麼責任要付賠償的話你現在的做法是要去跟這個廠商求償嗎如果到時候求償不到的話這筆錢誰要出你確定求償到嗎沒有就在法律上怎麼規定那如果現在問的就是如果沒有求償到嘛誰錢誰出嘛確定買單\n這部分就看行政上面那就是全民買單啊那就是全民買單啊好然後再來我提醒你幾件事啦因為我們去看了一下台灣館這個標案真的很奇怪啦我昨天我們助理特別去調他們檢案報告檢案報告裡面有很多我覺得蠻特別的地方那請你去查一下比如說那個他們檢案報告書裡面列了很多實際上和他們並不是太相關的標案都把它當作是服務的時機\n主義來講好像有一個叫做什麼文學樂園美國小天地這實際上是在台灣管另外一個標案裡面的一個項目那另外那個標案叫做美國現代主義可是我不知道為什麼你們已經另外起了一個標案然後在這個標案下面的其中一個小活動又要找這個碰世界的人來做協助這個過程來說非常的奇怪啦請你去查一下好不好第二\n還有齁我們接下來往下看齁剛剛講到那個美國現代主義文學特展開幕及推廣活動規劃執行這是一個標案72萬得標廠商叫開悟空間文創有限公司那總共兩家去投標另外一家沒有得標叫卡福創意設計行銷有限公司然後很奇怪的地方是在於說我們看到文學館在藝文活動平台所列出來\n他的整個團隊裡面在我們用框框框起來開幕活動的地方他就是由卡福創意設計行銷有限公司來做的\n卡芙創意設計行銷他之前沒有得到這個標案但是呢他卻做了這個標案的內容那為什麼呢因為這個標案的名稱寫得非常清楚就是這個特展的開幕及推廣活動就是開幕及推廣可是推廣呢就是由得標廠商開幕來做但是\n開幕開幕就卡福來做那我就非常奇怪這兩個廠商關係到底是什麼是同一家廠商嗎同一個負責人嗎還是他們的工作團隊其實同一個但是為了要在投標的時候不要讓人家覺得是綁標所以這兩家都來投標這非常的奇怪市長你應該不會知道那麼細的案子啦請你去查一下好不好\n請查一下為什麼會出現這個狀況就是沒有得標的廠商居然可以來做這個案子的其中一個部分這你會不會覺得很奇怪先初步跟委員說明一下的確這個案子我先前並沒有這個細節那剛剛台灣館館長跟我做的說明是台灣館有另外一個標案是對於全年度台灣館會發生的開幕活動還有另外一個標案所以那個開幕活動得標的是卡福創藝術\n但是你自己看開幕得標廠商標案名稱是什麼美國現代主義文學特產開幕及推廣活動等於你一個開幕兩個標案吶\n那你怎麼去分?這個預算隨便花的喔?難不成說開幕就交給一個廠商做嗎?那為什麼開幕要找兩個廠商來做?所以這錢這都是民脂民膏,就是納稅人的錢我們要把關,不是這樣亂搞好嗎?好請查清楚,在事後報告給我,謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.249 --> 00:12.104\n葉元之委員麻煩請文化部長謝謝好有請李部長\n\n00:16.803 --> 00:36.198\n部長好委員你好我還是想要關心一下那個台灣管事啦我知道當很多人關心喔因為我覺得非常不尋常是這家公司叫蹦世界嘛如果他會做出這種抄襲的行為啊代表說他不是一個非常好的公司所以政府不應該很時常很平凡的跟這家公司來往\n\n00:36.818 --> 00:51.603\n但是我們看到這家Bone世界公司從2017一七年開始到二零二四年七八年間光是中央機關總預算他就做了大概七千一百八十五萬的表案這表案的金額是非常龐大\n\n00:52.563 --> 01:16.949\n那跟我們教育文化相關的標案他大概做了兩千兩百五十三萬那我知道部長因為你也是新任啊可能你對這過程也不是太了解但這個事情會鬧得非常大你們去了解一下這個廠商他是為什麼可以這麼頻繁的接到我們政府的標案就是說會抄襲而且會抄襲被抓到還不承認還說謊這麼惡劣的廠商我們政府為什麼一直把標案給他做啊部長\n\n01:21.946 --> 01:48.979\n這件事情我覺得抄襲很不對但是硬拗更不對然後我希望這件事情給我們很大的警惕我們整個文化部會針對這件事情徹底檢討我覺得事情已經發生了那我希望這件事情給我們帶來重新檢討我們的標案方式還有重新加強我們的SOP機制未來希望不要再發生這樣沒有回答我的問題啦我是問說為什麼你都認為那麼爛的廠商\n\n01:50.640 --> 01:57.489\n那我們希望你也星光上任三把火嘛那你有沒有去了解一下這麼爛的廠商為什麼他可以做到政府這麼多的表案\n\n01:59.315 --> 02:20.692\n我要講因為你剛剛提到說這麼爛的廠商這些字眼我也不知道那沒關係就是有做出這樣行為的廠商如果部長你要問他很好的話我也尊重你啦你覺得這麼好的廠商是不是很有抄襲跟硬拗說謊的問題那你覺得為什麼過去我們的文化單位或其他單位那麼喜歡跟他合作\n\n02:21.412 --> 02:46.344\n這點我真的不知道要是我自己我不會這樣說我建議您是剛上任可能牽頭換去很多但因為這個事情是國人關注的不然不會有很多人問你是不是可以去查一下我們已經在查而且會很快這個幾件事情第一個事情要問一下臺文館為什麼在第一時間這個事情發生的時候他是完全採信廠商的說法還在幫廠商說話是為什麼這過程當中是怎麼查的為什麼完全相信廠商\n\n02:52.572 --> 03:02.178\n這點應該誰來回答?可以次長回答嗎?因為我真的不知道該怎麼答這個。那不然你覺得咧?我覺得蠻離譜啊。很離譜嗎?那次長你覺得離譜嗎?請次長回答啦。你問我個人我就覺得蠻離譜,但是為什麼我不知道。那次長為什麼?\n\n03:16.475 --> 03:33.164\n這個案子稍微補充說明一下剛剛委員您有提到說為什麼這個廠商可以一而再再而三的拿到文學館的這個數位導覽的案子不只不只文學館光是中央機關就做了7185萬跟教育文化相關是2253萬台灣館是1259萬\n\n03:37.622 --> 04:02.891\n因為其他機關是如何得標這個部分我不清楚我沒有辦法代為回答那至少在臺文館所委託他的這7年來我們一直委託他做的是所謂的數位數位導覽的這一塊那數位導覽裡面事實上以前他做的大部分是把我那個這樣因為沒關係那個問題已經過了你只要回答我說你們後來怎麼查的為什麼臺文館第一時間是相信廠商然後幫廠商說謊\n\n04:06.960 --> 04:30.772\n這個部分為什麼會相信為什麼會相信對因為怎麼查的你把查的過程先跟我講這個標案裡面最主要他會派駐兩個駐典人員在文學館裡面負責整個臉書頁面的小編還有編輯權那因為在負責這個裡面他同時要做一個所謂遊戲式的導覽你不要講這個大家都知道是我問什麼問題我問什麼問題\n\n04:32.253 --> 05:00.512\n好沒有就是說為什麼你回答啦因為這樣時間又過了啦這兩個注點人員在對你們是怎麼查的為什麼第一時間沒有查清楚就出來幫廠商背書為什麼因為同仁他就是單純的問注點人員說這個圖案是不是你自己做是不是你自己畫的那這個注點人員告訴我們的同仁說這是他跟他所以是原來台灣館在查這個過程是這麼的粗糙\n\n05:01.232 --> 05:10.906\n就是說他自己抄襲不想承認告訴你們台灣館你們台灣館就完全採用他的說法出來幫他硬拗這個很誇張好不好這個第一個非常誇張就是想要息事寧人就是想要大事化小\n\n05:16.454 --> 05:35.007\n就想要掩蓋你們做不好的地方第二個我想請教一下有沒有因為這件事情去查一下比如說這個廠商曾經經過的標案或者是說你們文化部狹下其他有關於文創產品可能是廠商自稱原創但是有可能涉及抄襲的有沒有開始著手去查\n\n05:35.427 --> 06:04.086\n有有查了幾間開始查多少準備要查多少我們現在就至少蹦世界所呃承辦的這7年內還有沒有其他他們所提供的圖案這些圖案是不是原創的有沒有什麼那你們怎麼查會不會又是叫那個小編來問一下說哎是不是超是不是超的哦不是哦不是相信你會這樣查嗎我們就會利用所謂以圖查圖的這個方式哦所以一個出面的所以你們有查的方法嗎但是你們沒有用嗎第一時間就是想要演示嗎這是我們\n\n06:05.567 --> 06:32.848\n請教一下現在被抄的那個會徒師他已經要跨海提告請問一下到時候如果說有訴訟費用或者是有賠償問題這個錢誰出如果台灣館必須先面對這個中國會師如果還有任何的提告那如果就產生了一些費用我們會轉了跟蹦世界這邊來求償是你們要去跟他求償那如果說他要脫產啊他要用什麼方式規避的話那是不是最後全民買單\n\n06:34.293 --> 06:48.442\n因為這個部分我們已經正式跟地檢署那邊提告了然後所以這部分廠商如何被限制行為的這個我們就靠司法這邊來我問的問題是說你他現在是跟台灣管球場對不對\n\n06:50.752 --> 07:14.321\n那如果說他中國會師他也有跟台灣如果台灣管被判說有連帶責任或什麼責任要付賠償的話你現在的做法是要去跟這個廠商求償嗎如果到時候求償不到的話這筆錢誰要出你確定求償到嗎沒有就在法律上怎麼規定那如果現在問的就是如果沒有求償到嘛誰錢誰出嘛確定買單\n\n07:17.595 --> 07:44.618\n這部分就看行政上面那就是全民買單啊那就是全民買單啊好然後再來我提醒你幾件事啦因為我們去看了一下台灣館這個標案真的很奇怪啦我昨天我們助理特別去調他們檢案報告檢案報告裡面有很多我覺得蠻特別的地方那請你去查一下比如說那個他們檢案報告書裡面列了很多實際上和他們並不是太相關的標案都把它當作是服務的時機\n\n07:46.516 --> 08:10.828\n主義來講好像有一個叫做什麼文學樂園美國小天地這實際上是在台灣管另外一個標案裡面的一個項目那另外那個標案叫做美國現代主義可是我不知道為什麼你們已經另外起了一個標案然後在這個標案下面的其中一個小活動又要找這個碰世界的人來做協助這個過程來說非常的奇怪啦請你去查一下好不好第二\n\n08:12.145 --> 08:36.988\n還有齁我們接下來往下看齁剛剛講到那個美國現代主義文學特展開幕及推廣活動規劃執行這是一個標案72萬得標廠商叫開悟空間文創有限公司那總共兩家去投標另外一家沒有得標叫卡福創意設計行銷有限公司然後很奇怪的地方是在於說我們看到文學館在藝文活動平台所列出來\n\n08:38.149 --> 08:48.320\n他的整個團隊裡面在我們用框框框起來開幕活動的地方他就是由卡福創意設計行銷有限公司來做的\n\n08:49.173 --> 09:09.868\n卡芙創意設計行銷他之前沒有得到這個標案但是呢他卻做了這個標案的內容那為什麼呢因為這個標案的名稱寫得非常清楚就是這個特展的開幕及推廣活動就是開幕及推廣可是推廣呢就是由得標廠商開幕來做但是\n\n09:10.969 --> 09:32.569\n開幕開幕就卡福來做那我就非常奇怪這兩個廠商關係到底是什麼是同一家廠商嗎同一個負責人嗎還是他們的工作團隊其實同一個但是為了要在投標的時候不要讓人家覺得是綁標所以這兩家都來投標這非常的奇怪市長你應該不會知道那麼細的案子啦請你去查一下好不好\n\n09:33.670 --> 10:00.444\n請查一下為什麼會出現這個狀況就是沒有得標的廠商居然可以來做這個案子的其中一個部分這你會不會覺得很奇怪先初步跟委員說明一下的確這個案子我先前並沒有這個細節那剛剛台灣館館長跟我做的說明是台灣館有另外一個標案是對於全年度台灣館會發生的開幕活動還有另外一個標案所以那個開幕活動得標的是卡福創藝術\n\n10:01.184 --> 10:10.250\n但是你自己看開幕得標廠商標案名稱是什麼美國現代主義文學特產開幕及推廣活動等於你一個開幕兩個標案吶\n\n10:12.799 --> 10:31.233\n那你怎麼去分?這個預算隨便花的喔?難不成說開幕就交給一個廠商做嗎?那為什麼開幕要找兩個廠商來做?所以這錢這都是民脂民膏,就是納稅人的錢我們要把關,不是這樣亂搞好嗎?好請查清楚,在事後報告給我,謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.249,"end":12.104,"text":"葉元之委員麻煩請文化部長謝謝好有請李部長"},{"start":16.803,"end":36.198,"text":"部長好 委員你好 我還是想要關心一下那個台灣管事啦 我知道當很多人關心喔 因為我覺得非常不尋常是 這家公司叫蹦世界嘛 如果他會做出這種抄襲的行為啊 代表說他不是一個非常好的公司 所以政府不應該很時常很平凡的跟這家公司來往"},{"start":36.818,"end":51.603,"text":"但是我們看到這家Bone世界公司從2017一七年開始到二零二四年七八年間光是中央機關總預算他就做了大概七千一百八十五萬的表案這表案的金額是非常龐大"},{"start":52.563,"end":76.949,"text":"那跟我們教育文化相關的標案他大概做了兩千兩百五十三萬那我知道部長因為你也是新任啊可能你對這過程也不是太了解但這個事情會鬧得非常大你們去了解一下這個廠商他是為什麼可以這麼頻繁的接到我們政府的標案就是說會抄襲而且會抄襲被抓到還不承認還說謊這麼惡劣的廠商我們政府為什麼一直把標案給他做啊部長"},{"start":81.946,"end":108.979,"text":"這件事情我覺得抄襲很不對但是硬拗更不對然後我希望這件事情給我們很大的警惕我們整個文化部會針對這件事情徹底檢討我覺得事情已經發生了那我希望這件事情給我們帶來重新檢討我們的標案方式還有重新加強我們的SOP機制未來希望不要再發生這樣沒有回答我的問題啦我是問說為什麼你都認為那麼爛的廠商"},{"start":110.64,"end":117.489,"text":"那我們希望你也星光上任三把火嘛那你有沒有去了解一下這麼爛的廠商為什麼他可以做到政府這麼多的表案"},{"start":119.315,"end":140.692,"text":"我要講因為你剛剛提到說這麼爛的廠商這些字眼我也不知道那沒關係就是有做出這樣行為的廠商如果部長你要問他很好的話我也尊重你啦你覺得這麼好的廠商是不是很有抄襲跟硬拗說謊的問題那你覺得為什麼過去我們的文化單位或其他單位那麼喜歡跟他合作"},{"start":141.412,"end":166.344,"text":"這點我真的不知道 要是我自己我不會這樣說我建議您是剛上任可能牽頭換去很多但因為這個事情是國人關注的 不然不會有很多人問你是不是可以去查一下我們已經在查而且會很快這個幾件事情第一個事情要問一下臺文館為什麼在第一時間這個事情發生的時候他是完全採信廠商的說法還在幫廠商說話是為什麼 這過程當中是怎麼查的為什麼完全相信廠商"},{"start":172.572,"end":182.178,"text":"這點應該誰來回答?可以次長回答嗎?因為我真的不知道該怎麼答這個。那不然你覺得咧?我覺得蠻離譜啊。很離譜嗎?那次長你覺得離譜嗎?請次長回答啦。你問我個人我就覺得蠻離譜,但是為什麼我不知道。那次長為什麼?"},{"start":196.475,"end":213.164,"text":"這個案子稍微補充說明一下剛剛委員您有提到說為什麼這個廠商可以一而再再而三的拿到文學館的這個數位導覽的案子不只不只文學館光是中央機關就做了7185萬跟教育文化相關是2253萬台灣館是1259萬"},{"start":217.622,"end":242.891,"text":"因為其他機關是如何得標這個部分我不清楚我沒有辦法代為回答那至少在臺文館所委託他的這7年來我們一直委託他做的是所謂的數位數位導覽的這一塊那數位導覽裡面事實上以前他做的大部分是把我那個這樣因為沒關係那個問題已經過了你只要回答我說你們後來怎麼查的為什麼臺文館第一時間是相信廠商然後幫廠商說謊"},{"start":246.96,"end":270.772,"text":"這個部分為什麼會相信為什麼會相信對因為怎麼查的你把查的過程先跟我講這個標案裡面最主要他會派駐兩個駐典人員在文學館裡面負責整個臉書頁面的小編還有編輯權那因為在負責這個裡面他同時要做一個所謂遊戲式的導覽你不要講這個大家都知道是我問什麼問題我問什麼問題"},{"start":272.253,"end":300.512,"text":"好沒有就是說為什麼你回答啦因為這樣時間又過了啦這兩個注點人員在對你們是怎麼查的為什麼第一時間沒有查清楚就出來幫廠商背書為什麼因為同仁他就是單純的問注點人員說這個圖案是不是你自己做是不是你自己畫的那這個注點人員告訴我們的同仁說這是他跟他所以是原來台灣館在查這個過程是這麼的粗糙"},{"start":301.232,"end":310.906,"text":"就是說他自己抄襲不想承認告訴你們台灣館你們台灣館就完全採用他的說法出來幫他硬拗這個很誇張好不好這個第一個非常誇張就是想要息事寧人就是想要大事化小"},{"start":316.454,"end":335.007,"text":"就想要掩蓋你們做不好的地方第二個我想請教一下有沒有因為這件事情去查一下比如說這個廠商曾經經過的標案或者是說你們文化部狹下其他有關於文創產品可能是廠商自稱原創但是有可能涉及抄襲的有沒有開始著手去查"},{"start":335.427,"end":364.086,"text":"有有查了幾間開始查多少準備要查多少我們現在就至少蹦世界所呃承辦的這7年內還有沒有其他他們所提供的圖案這些圖案是不是原創的有沒有什麼那你們怎麼查會不會又是叫那個小編來問一下說哎是不是超是不是超的哦不是哦不是相信你會這樣查嗎我們就會利用所謂以圖查圖的這個方式哦所以一個出面的所以你們有查的方法嗎但是你們沒有用嗎第一時間就是想要演示嗎這是我們"},{"start":365.567,"end":392.848,"text":"請教一下現在被抄的那個會徒師他已經要跨海提告請問一下到時候如果說有訴訟費用或者是有賠償問題這個錢誰出如果台灣館必須先面對這個中國會師如果還有任何的提告那如果就產生了一些費用我們會轉了跟蹦世界這邊來求償是你們要去跟他求償那如果說他要脫產啊他要用什麼方式規避的話那是不是最後全民買單"},{"start":394.293,"end":408.442,"text":"因為這個部分我們已經正式跟地檢署那邊提告了然後所以這部分廠商如何被限制行為的這個我們就靠司法這邊來我問的問題是說你他現在是跟台灣管球場對不對"},{"start":410.752,"end":434.321,"text":"那如果說他中國會師他也有跟台灣如果台灣管被判說有連帶責任或什麼責任要付賠償的話你現在的做法是要去跟這個廠商求償嗎如果到時候求償不到的話這筆錢誰要出你確定求償到嗎沒有就在法律上怎麼規定那如果現在問的就是如果沒有求償到嘛誰錢誰出嘛確定買單"},{"start":437.595,"end":464.618,"text":"這部分就看行政上面那就是全民買單啊那就是全民買單啊好然後再來我提醒你幾件事啦因為我們去看了一下台灣館這個標案真的很奇怪啦我昨天我們助理特別去調他們檢案報告檢案報告裡面有很多我覺得蠻特別的地方那請你去查一下比如說那個他們檢案報告書裡面列了很多實際上和他們並不是太相關的標案都把它當作是服務的時機"},{"start":466.516,"end":490.828,"text":"主義來講好像有一個叫做什麼文學樂園美國小天地這實際上是在台灣管另外一個標案裡面的一個項目那另外那個標案叫做美國現代主義可是我不知道為什麼你們已經另外起了一個標案然後在這個標案下面的其中一個小活動又要找這個碰世界的人來做協助這個過程來說非常的奇怪啦請你去查一下好不好第二"},{"start":492.145,"end":516.988,"text":"還有齁我們接下來往下看齁剛剛講到那個美國現代主義文學特展開幕及推廣活動規劃執行這是一個標案72萬得標廠商叫開悟空間文創有限公司那總共兩家去投標另外一家沒有得標叫卡福創意設計行銷有限公司然後很奇怪的地方是在於說我們看到文學館在藝文活動平台所列出來"},{"start":518.149,"end":528.32,"text":"他的整個團隊裡面在我們用框框框起來開幕活動的地方他就是由卡福創意設計行銷有限公司來做的"},{"start":529.173,"end":549.868,"text":"卡芙創意設計行銷他之前沒有得到這個標案但是呢他卻做了這個標案的內容那為什麼呢因為這個標案的名稱寫得非常清楚就是這個特展的開幕及推廣活動就是開幕及推廣可是推廣呢就是由得標廠商開幕來做但是"},{"start":550.969,"end":572.569,"text":"開幕開幕就卡福來做那我就非常奇怪這兩個廠商關係到底是什麼是同一家廠商嗎同一個負責人嗎還是他們的工作團隊其實同一個但是為了要在投標的時候不要讓人家覺得是綁標所以這兩家都來投標這非常的奇怪市長你應該不會知道那麼細的案子啦請你去查一下好不好"},{"start":573.67,"end":600.444,"text":"請查一下為什麼會出現這個狀況就是沒有得標的廠商居然可以來做這個案子的其中一個部分這你會不會覺得很奇怪先初步跟委員說明一下的確這個案子我先前並沒有這個細節那剛剛台灣館館長跟我做的說明是台灣館有另外一個標案是對於全年度台灣館會發生的開幕活動還有另外一個標案所以那個開幕活動得標的是卡福創藝術"},{"start":601.184,"end":610.25,"text":"但是你自己看開幕得標廠商標案名稱是什麼美國現代主義文學特產開幕及推廣活動等於你一個開幕兩個標案吶"},{"start":612.799,"end":631.233,"text":"那你怎麼去分?這個預算隨便花的喔?難不成說開幕就交給一個廠商做嗎?那為什麼開幕要找兩個廠商來做?所以這錢這都是民脂民膏,就是納稅人的錢我們要把關,不是這樣亂搞好嗎?好請查清楚,在事後報告給我,謝謝"}]}}}}