{"id":152866,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152866","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d339c8d1909fa45386f3ba71591793d15d1368e7b3a1940e80469f81d00442830d1fb675c659de675ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"09:22:20 - 09:36:11","影片長度":"00:13:51","會議時間":"2024-05-23T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳誠文列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家科學及技術委員會主管預算(公務預算)解凍案7案。\n【5月22日及23日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-23","duration":831,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-13"},"end_time":"2024-05-23T09:36:11+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-23T09:22:20+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":94,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（9時22分）主席，謝謝，麻煩請吳誠文主委。"],["主席：好，有請吳主委。"],["洪委員孟楷：主委好。主委非常有拼勁，昨天帶著新任團隊一字排開跟媒體見面會，也誇下海口，說3個月要做出有感的成績……"],["吳主任委員誠文：不是，是規劃，會宣布規劃，不是成績。"],["洪委員孟楷：不是做出，是規劃要做有感的政策，是不是？"],["吳主任委員誠文：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：我還正想要稱讚您，因為現在敢誇下海口的政務官不多了，沒想到你連讓人稱讚的機會都不給我。"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們會把方案推出來。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，把方案推出來。什麼樣的部分是認為之前沒有做好或沒有做足的？"],["吳主任委員誠文：之前比較照顧大型的企業，我們將來會依照賴總統的指示，一定要均衡，所有的產業我們希望都能夠受惠於臺灣高科技的實力。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以之前有一些中小企業比較沒有受惠到，你講說要用數位轉型的計畫，對不對？"],["吳主任委員誠文：嗯。"],["洪委員孟楷：有數位轉型的計畫，也有跨部會的方案，就代表過去數位科技運用在中小企業上是比較薄弱的，是不是？"],["吳主任委員誠文：過去比較小，但這是市場機制，我們現在就是借助政府的力量來協助、彌補市場機制的不足。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，所以你的方向是會以補助的方式、引導的方式，還是政策導向的方式？"],["吳主任委員誠文：兩個都有。"],["洪委員孟楷：會以怎麼樣的方式？"],["吳主任委員誠文：兩個都有。我們希望在學界由國科會來補助，在業界由經濟部來補助，我們也會配合教育部來修正，在學制的發展上面鼓勵教授帶著學生也可以做這些事情。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，剛剛你有講到一個是國科會，是學界的部分？"],["吳主任委員誠文：學界的部分。"],["洪委員孟楷：學界的部分是國科會，那產業界的部分由經濟部，是不是？"],["吳主任委員誠文：由經濟部，我們會協調經濟部共同來執行。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，協調經濟部共同執行，這又涉及本席馬上要問的另外一個問題。你自己也有透露，整個團隊裡面，現在外交部林佳龍部長也問何時可以一起喝咖啡，要討論如何用科技協助友邦；經濟部長也提出臺灣要到海外設晶片園區的想法，是不是？"],["吳主任委員誠文：這一點還在構想，還在討論當中。"],["洪委員孟楷：還在構想，因為從媒體看到是您講出來的。既然你現在跟經濟部長有這個talk，說海外設晶片園區，請教到底是到友邦，還是非友邦？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們沒有講晶片園區。其實產業非常多元，當然，也不一定是友邦，只要跟臺灣有比較友好的關係存在，不會對我們有敵對的……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以不限於友邦，是不是？"],["吳主任委員誠文：對，不限有邦交。"],["洪委員孟楷：好。另外，大家現在在討論AI，賴清德政府上任的時候就已經講AI內閣團隊，剛剛柯志恩委員也講現在言必稱AI，所有的事情、所有的計畫、所有的方案沒有在前面掛AI兩個字，好像就落後了，請教，我們心心念念的AI人工智慧基本法在今年可以推出嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們規劃中是今年會推出，我們希望在年底之前一定會做到。"],["洪委員孟楷：「一定會做到」是指送到行政院……"],["吳主任委員誠文：送到行政院。"],["洪委員孟楷：還是行政院可以推出版本給立法院審議？"],["吳主任委員誠文：國科會負責的就是要送到行政院。"],["洪委員孟楷：目前的方向呢？"],["吳主任委員誠文：目前的方向……"],["洪委員孟楷：因為本席心心念念……我們幾位委員在立法院已經有AI人工智慧基本法草案出來，當然，大家也是希望能夠排審，最主要就是院版要出來，大家可以針對這個議題去做討論。"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們現在正在廣泛地諮詢各界的意見，包含學界、業界、民間。"],["洪委員孟楷：在國科會的版本出來之前，我相信應該也會有諮詢公聽會或相關的意見……"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：什麼時候能夠讓大家看到一個雛型？既然你講說年底一定會出來，什麼時候能夠有一個雛型，至少讓大家知道你的方向？以及之前本席也問過前任主委，到底我們的方向是什麼？是要比較走向美、日兩國這種相對比較開放的地方，還是要走向歐盟相對比較保守或謹慎的地方？你的想法是什麼？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我認為兩者要兼顧，也就是說，保護民眾是非常重要的，但是我們不能夠忽略掉產業的發展，所以我們會兩者兼顧。我們在……"],["洪委員孟楷：主委，以前少棒的時候沒有二刀流，我覺得你很像大谷翔平又投又打，講得面面俱到，「一面抹壁雙面光」，但是有講好像沒講。我們第一次見面，我覺得大家都是以禮相待，只要是專業，我們以專業論專業，這沒有問題，但說實在話，你一定有你的方向。之前的主委講我們應該會比較朝向美、日，就是以開放、但希望能夠借重AI……"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，但是我認為兩者要兼顧。"],["洪委員孟楷：兩者兼顧？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，我們期待你的版本出來之後，看看到底是怎麼樣的兩者兼顧，希望您說到做到。","再來，有提到台積電2奈米廠要進駐，希望台積電能夠根留臺灣，當然，我相信台積電也一定……全國國人沒有人不相信台積電會根留臺灣，因為台積電也是我們中華民國的驕傲。過去很多台積電的設廠應該是由台積電本身來發布，但卻沒有，很多時候都是被政府部門、被有心人士刻意地發布，到最後也是被迫去。我們現在想請教，您之前有提到南部有可能也會有設廠，現在的進度及規劃如何？"],["吳主任委員誠文：現在沒有具體，只是還在進程當中。當然，確切的時程應該是由廠商來宣布。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，您有提到相信台積電會根留臺灣，也有提到南部會有2奈米廠？"],["吳主任委員誠文：應該會有。"],["洪委員孟楷：應該會有？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，我們當然不希望有什麼樣的變數。"],["洪委員孟楷：大家都不希望有變數，但是既然已經有提到了，所以「南部」會是之前提過的縣市，還是有其他的縣市？"],["吳主任委員誠文：那就是在高雄。"],["洪委員孟楷：高雄，是不是？"],["吳主任委員誠文：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以預計什麼時程？"],["吳主任委員誠文：已經進到建廠的階段了。"],["洪委員孟楷：建廠階段？"],["吳主任委員誠文：嗯。"],["洪委員孟楷：好。主委，最後本席還是想要請教一下能源的議題，我看到今天大家也都有顧慮到能源的議題，國科會這邊也有委員，包括童子賢董事長，他也是現在國科會的委員之一，最近童子賢董事長他有提過能源的議題，他認為能源供應到了轉型的時刻，而且過去他是反核，但他現在認為核能會是一個能夠協助淨零碳排，也能夠加速綠能再生的一個過渡階段的替代能源，您自己怎麼看？有沒有跟委員這邊開過會？還沒有？"],["吳主任委員誠文：目前還沒有。"],["洪委員孟楷：有沒有跟委員這邊交換過意見？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我也是從媒體看到這個訊息。"],["洪委員孟楷：是。"],["吳主任委員誠文：我認為賴總統他已經宣示，我們的施政一定要傾聽民意，所以如果我們的社會傾向在能源的發展能夠多元的去探討，將來我們政府的施政當然還是會以民意為依歸。"],["洪委員孟楷：OK！所以沒有所謂的反核神主牌？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我個人沒有。"],["洪委員孟楷：你個人沒有？"],["吳主任委員誠文：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：如果十年前有這樣一個理性的聲音，我想就不會有那種民粹的思維，所以十年前大家在講：「我是人，我反核」這樣子一個民粹的思維，民粹的一個口號，你個人是不認同的？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我認同反核的意見裡面，對於民眾、對於社會各種可能的傷害，這個是一定要避免掉的，我是認同這一點，但是能源的探討，將來也有可能會發展出潔淨的核能、安全的核能，在這個前提之下，我會是認同的。"],["洪委員孟楷：當然沒有一個人希望我們使用的能源是不安全的，但是現在包括不管是火力發電、風力發電、太陽能發電或是核能發電，其實每一項發電也都有它的優點跟缺點，我一直強調能源是選擇，選擇的部分在於是說你怎麼樣來做取捨，因為大家都要用能源，所以不應該是污名化任何一種能源，再加上最近七大工業國也有發表聲明，他們不再反對核能、不再發表反核的立場、不再發表反核的宣言，並且他們有宣示2035年以前要淘汰燃煤發電，這點你有看到嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：國科會會以科學研究的基礎來探討這個議題，我們也會兼顧在人文社會領域對這個議題的關注，如果有全民的共識，當然我們政府就會依循全民的共識來執行。"],["洪委員孟楷：什麼樣的全民共識是你認為的全民共識？"],["吳主任委員誠文：當然就是在貴院立法院能夠同意政府的施政方向。"],["洪委員孟楷：不是！本席在這邊講，現在有一些委員在提到我們要延長使用核能的部分，所以立法院這邊沒有延長使用核能的議題，你們這邊都不會推動，是這樣子嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：如果在民間討論的結果，民意為基礎，我們當然會傾聽民意。"],["洪委員孟楷：你現在一下子又說立法院、一下子又民意，本席現在再請教您，您的民意指的是哪裡的民意？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我相信立法院是代表民意的。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，主委，我說實在話啦，這樣子就有點便宜行事，之前一直講說政府就是抱著一個反核神主牌，尤其這是民進黨政府的神主牌，只要立法院這邊有提到或藍營這邊有提到說要使用核能，就會用抹黑、側翼攻擊講說這個是危害，現在當然我是尊重您以一個專業的立場，可是如果說什麼事情都是推給立法院，現在在做研議的時候又要講說你看這是不是又要再傷害民眾，甚至還有那種不實的言論，講到說「這樣核廢料怎麼處理？核廢料放你家，好不好？」這種刻意的、扭曲的話術，我覺得都不是一個專業的話術，所以其實還是回過頭來，最後我只請教你一個問題，2050淨零碳排是現在政府目標、方向，也是立法院通過的氣候變遷因應法裡面立法的一個明確目標，2050淨零碳排能源配比，有講到再生能源要占幾趴？"],["吳主任委員誠文：當然這個目標現在是蠻困難的，但是我們會努力，至於這個核能的議題……"],["洪委員孟楷：不是，本席現在在請教再生能源要占幾趴？"],["吳主任委員誠文：這個……"],["洪委員孟楷：60%到70%啦。主委，本席不是要跟你錙銖必較在這種地方來考你，我只是說之前提出的再生能源的方向，2050淨零碳排以現在民進黨政府的規劃，是60%到70%要全再生能源，以現在的技術跟科技，你認為可以做到嗎？不要再講說要努力，大家都要努力啦！"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：你覺得能做到嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：相當困難。"],["洪委員孟楷：相當困難嘛！所以，我們要比較務實地來看待，有什麼樣的能源可以，我還是強調能源是選擇，火力發電是一種能源，核能發電是一種能源，再生能源是一種能源，但是怎麼樣務實地滿足國人的需求、滿足產業的需求，能夠供電無虞，電價又相對是大家能夠負擔？在這樣的情況下，我們找出最好的能源配比，我想這才是一個做科學的精神，也才是一個務實的精神，所以既然再生能源60%到70%非常困難，是不是應該真的要進入到能源轉型的時刻？"],["吳主任委員誠文：在國科會，我們會請專家群來研討這個議題，過去並沒有很……"],["洪委員孟楷：未來有機會賴總統要請教國科會專業意見的時候，請一定要本於專業，提出正確的方向讓總統跟上位者來做決策，可以嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：同意。"],["洪委員孟楷：謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝洪孟楷委員。","接下來請葛如鈞委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":216,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-13","speakers":["林宜瑾","柯志恩","洪孟楷","葛如鈞","郭昱晴","萬美玲","林倩綺","陳秀寳","張雅琳","吳沛憶","吳春城","葉元之","羅廷瑋","陳培瑜","賴士葆","范雲","蔡易餘","楊瓊瓔","何欣純","邱志偉"],"page_start":155,"meetingDate":["2024-05-23"],"gazette_id":"1135001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135001_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳誠文列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查113年\n度中央政府總預算有關國家科學及技術委員會主管預算（公務預算）解凍案7案","agenda_id":"1135001_00003"}},"transcript":{"id":"152866","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152866","tool":"pyannote","id":"152866-pyannote"},"job_id":"YkrlglBXqYWrohqg","queued_at":"2024-05-30 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\"start\": 827.432, \"end\": 827.732, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 827.732, \"end\": 827.812, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 827.812, \"end\": 828.233, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 828.233, \"end\": 828.433, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 828.433, \"end\": 828.453, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,495 --> 00:00:09,558\n主席謝謝麻煩請吳誠文主委好有請吳主委好\n\n2\n00:00:15,512 --> 00:00:42,323\n主委好,主委非常有拼勁喔昨天帶著新任團隊一致排開跟媒體見面會那也誇出海口說三個月要做出有感的成績啊不是規劃,會宣布規劃,不是成績不是做出啊,是規劃要做有感的政策是不是那有感的政策我還正想要稱讚您說現在敢誇出海口的政務官不多了沒想到你連讓我稱讚的機會都不給我\n\n3\n00:00:44,324 --> 00:00:51,850\n我們會把方案推出來好方案推出來那方案推出來什麼樣的一個部分是認為說之前是沒有做好或沒有做主的\n\n4\n00:00:53,106 --> 00:01:21,914\n之前比較照顧大型的企業我們將來依照賴總統的指示一定要均衡所有的產業我們希望都能夠受惠於臺灣高科技的實力所以說之前有一些中小企業是比較沒有受惠到嘛所以你要講是說要用數位轉型的計畫對不對有數位轉型的計畫也有跨部會的方案就代表說過去在數位的科技運用在中小企業上是比較薄弱的是不是過去比較比較小但是這是市場機制\n\n5\n00:01:23,755 --> 00:01:51,450\n我們現在就是藉助政府的力量來協助來彌補市場機制的不足所以你的方向是會以補助的方式還是引導的方式還是政策導向的方式兩個都有會以什麼樣的方式兩個都有我們希望在學界由國科會來補助在業界由經濟部來補助我們配合教育部來修正我們在學制的發展上面鼓勵教授帶著學生也可以做這些事情\n\n6\n00:01:52,410 --> 00:02:10,673\n剛剛你有講到就是說一個是國科會是學界的部分學界的部分國科會那產業界部分有經濟部有經濟部我們會協調經濟部來共同來執行好協調經濟部共同執行這又馬上本席要問的另外一個問題啊\n\n7\n00:02:11,374 --> 00:02:30,140\n因為你自己有透露說這個整個團隊裡面來講現在外交部林佳龍部長也問說何時可以一起喝咖啡說要討論說如何用科技來協助友邦那另外經濟部長也提出說台灣要到海外設晶片園區的想法是不是\n\n8\n00:02:31,431 --> 00:02:52,183\n此事還在構想還在討論當中還在構想但是因為這個是從媒體這邊看到是您這邊講出來嘛那請教經濟部長既然你現在有跟他有這個talk說海外設晶片園區那請教是到友邦還是非友邦我們沒有講晶片園區其實產業非常多元當然很多的\n\n9\n00:02:53,343 --> 00:02:53,683\n議員吳誠文列席\n\n10\n00:03:17,893 --> 00:03:33,192\n言必稱AI啊好像你現在所有的事情所有的計畫所有的方案沒有在前面掛AI兩個字好像就落後了那請教我們心心念念認為說AI人工智慧基本法在今年可以推出\n\n11\n00:03:35,290 --> 00:03:53,622\n我們規劃中是今年會推出那我們是希望說在年底之前一定會做到一定會做到是指送到行政院還是行政院可以推出版本來給立法院審議國會負責就是要送到行政院那目前的方向勒\n\n12\n00:03:55,253 --> 00:04:11,072\n目前的方向因為本席心心念念本席我們幾位委員在立法院也已經有AI人工智慧基本法的草案已經出來那當然大家也是希望輸出能夠排審就是最主要要院板這邊要出來大家可以針對這個議題來去做討論嘛\n\n13\n00:04:13,234 --> 00:04:28,025\n我們現在正在廣泛的諮詢各界的意見包括學界、業界、民間在國科會再出來之前我相信應該也會有諮詢其他這個公聽會或說相關的一個意見那什麼時候能夠讓大家可以看到一個雛形\n\n14\n00:04:29,606 --> 00:04:53,764\n既然你有講是說年底一定會出來那什麼時候能夠有一個雛形至少讓大家知道說你的方向以及之前本席也問過其他之前的主委我們到底我們的方向是什麼是要比較走向的是美日兩國這種相對比較開放的地方還是說我們要對於歐盟這邊是相對比較保守或說比較謹慎的地方您的想法\n\n15\n00:04:54,520 --> 00:05:20,006\n我認為兩者要兼顧也就是說保護保護民眾這是非常重要的但是我們不能夠忽略掉產業的發展所以我們會兩者兼顧我們在在這個以前少胖的時候沒有二刀流喔不然我覺得你很像大谷祥平喔又投又打講的面面俱到一邊挖拼雙邊跟啊但是有講好像沒講\n\n16\n00:05:21,854 --> 00:05:41,590\n您比較重視本席第一次見面我覺得大家都是以禮相待而且只要是專業我們以專業論專業這沒有問題但說實在話你一定有你的方向之前主委講是說我們應該會比較朝向美日就是以開放但是我們希望能夠借重AI但是我認為兩者要兼顧\n\n17\n00:05:43,297 --> 00:06:04,072\n兩者兼顧我們期待看你的版本出來之後到底是怎麼樣的兩者兼顧希望您說到做到再來有提到是說台積電二奈米廠要進駐希望台積電能夠跟流台灣當然我相信台積電也一定全國國人沒有人不相信台積電會跟流台灣\n\n18\n00:06:04,993 --> 00:06:06,214\n現在沒有具體只是﹗\n\n19\n00:06:35,578 --> 00:07:04,095\n只是還在進程當中。那當然確確的這個時程應該是由廠商來宣布。是。但是您有提到說相信台積電更有台灣嘛。但也有提到南部會有二奈米廠。應該會有。應該會有。是。我們當然不希望有什麼樣的變數啦。大家都不希望有變數。但這樣已經有提到嘛。所以說這個南部會是之前提過的縣市還是有其他的縣市?\n\n20\n00:07:06,656 --> 00:07:16,262\n在高雄?所以預計什麼時程?已經進到建廠的階段了。\n\n21\n00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:44,708\n最後啦本席還是想請教一下能源的議題啦我看到今天我們相關大家也都有顧慮到能源的議題那國科會這邊也有委員委員有包括說我們的童子賢董事長他也是我們現在國科會委員之一那最近童子賢董事長他有提過就說能源的議題他認為能源供應到轉型的時刻而且\n\n22\n00:07:46,392 --> 00:08:00,532\n過去他是反核但他現在認為說核能會是一個能夠協助淨零碳排也能夠加速綠能再生的一個過渡的一個階段的取代能源您自己怎麼看有沒有跟這個委員這邊有開過會\n\n23\n00:08:03,079 --> 00:08:31,047\n還沒有,目前還沒有那有沒有跟委員交換過意見我也是從媒體看到這個訊息我認為賴總統他已經宣示我們的施政一定要傾聽民意所以如果說我們的這個社會傾向在能源的發展能夠多元多元的去探討將來我們政府的施政當然還是會以民意為依歸所以沒有所謂的反核生主牌\n\n24\n00:08:32,466 --> 00:08:33,766\n我認同反核的意見裡面對於民眾對於社會\n\n25\n00:08:59,383 --> 00:08:59,403\n獲得獎項\n\n26\n00:09:15,673 --> 00:09:44,038\n當然沒有一個人希望我們使用的能源是不安全的但現在包括說不管是火力發電風力發電太陽能發電或是核能發電其實每一項發電也都有它的優點跟缺點我一直強調能源是選擇選擇的部分在於是說你怎麼樣來做取捨因為大家都要用能源嘛所以不應該是汙名化任何一種能源再加上最近七大工業國也有發表聲明他們不再反對核能不再發表反核的立場\n\n27\n00:09:45,339 --> 00:09:58,619\n在發表反核的宣言並且他們有宣誓2035年以前要淘汰藍莓發電這點你有看到嗎?國科會會以科學研究的基礎\n\n28\n00:10:00,135 --> 00:10:22,343\n來探討這個議題那我們也會兼顧在人文社會領域對這個議題的關注達到如果有全民的共識那我們當然政府就會依行全民的共識來執行什麼樣的全民共識是你認為的全民共識當然就是在貴院立法院能夠同意政府的施政方向所以如果說不是\n\n29\n00:10:23,403 --> 00:10:32,381\n本席這邊講現在我們有一些委員在提到是說我們要延長使用核能的部分所以立法院這邊沒有延長使用核能的議題我們這邊都不會推動是這樣子嗎\n\n30\n00:10:37,192 --> 00:10:46,900\n如果在民間討論的結果民意為基礎我們當然會傾聽民意。我相信立法院是代表民意的。\n\n31\n00:10:56,728 --> 00:10:58,469\n提到是說要使用核能就把\n\n32\n00:11:17,509 --> 00:11:40,579\n摸黑徹役攻擊講說這個是危害那現在當然我是尊重您以一個專業的立場可是如果說什麼事情都是在推給立法院現在在做這個研議的時候又要講是說你看這是不是又要再傷害民眾甚至講到那種不實的言論講到說那這樣核廢料怎麼處理核廢料放你家好不好這種\n\n33\n00:11:42,250 --> 00:12:04,862\n刻意的扭曲的話術我覺得這都不是一個專業的話術所以其實還是拉過頭來最後我只請教你一個問題2050淨零碳排是現在政府目標方向也是立法院通過的氣候變遷因應法裡面立法的一個明確的一個目標2050淨零碳排能源配比有講到再生能源要佔幾%\n\n34\n00:12:10,398 --> 00:12:19,064\n當然這個目標現在是蠻困難的但是我們會努力那至於這個核能的議題本席現在在請教說再生能源要佔幾%\n\n35\n00:12:24,461 --> 00:12:50,219\n60到70%啦來啦主委本席不是要跟你在這種蜘蛛壁教這種地方來考你我只是說在生能源之前提出來的方向2050精靈碳排以現在民進黨政府規劃是要60%到70%是要存在生能源那以現在的技術跟科技你認為可以做得到嗎不要再講說要努力大家都要努力啦你覺得能做到嗎\n\n36\n00:12:51,792 --> 00:13:18,835\n相當困難相當困難嘛所以我們要比較務實的來看待有什麼樣的能源是可以我還是強調能源是選擇火力發電是一種能源核能發電是一種能源再生能源是一種能源但是怎麼樣務實的滿足國人的需求滿足產業的需求能夠供電無虞又電價相對大家能夠負擔的情況下我們找出最好的能源配比我想這才是一個做科學的精神也才是一個務實的精神\n\n37\n00:13:19,375 --> 00:13:26,057\n所以既然再生能源60到70%非常困難是不是應該真的要進入到能源轉型的轉型時刻我們會在國科會我們會請專家群來研討這個議題過去並沒有很未來有機會賴總統要\n\n38\n00:13:39,020 --> 00:13:48,453\n請教國科會專業意見的時候請一定要本於專業的提出正確的方向來讓總統跟上位者來做決策可以嗎同意謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5495\t9558\t主席謝謝麻煩請吳誠文主委好有請吳主委好\n15512\t42323\t主委好,主委非常有拼勁喔昨天帶著新任團隊一致排開跟媒體見面會那也誇出海口說三個月要做出有感的成績啊不是規劃,會宣布規劃,不是成績不是做出啊,是規劃要做有感的政策是不是那有感的政策我還正想要稱讚您說現在敢誇出海口的政務官不多了沒想到你連讓我稱讚的機會都不給我\n44324\t51850\t我們會把方案推出來好方案推出來那方案推出來什麼樣的一個部分是認為說之前是沒有做好或沒有做主的\n53106\t81914\t之前比較照顧大型的企業我們將來依照賴總統的指示一定要均衡所有的產業我們希望都能夠受惠於臺灣高科技的實力所以說之前有一些中小企業是比較沒有受惠到嘛所以你要講是說要用數位轉型的計畫對不對有數位轉型的計畫也有跨部會的方案就代表說過去在數位的科技運用在中小企業上是比較薄弱的是不是過去比較比較小但是這是市場機制\n83755\t111450\t我們現在就是藉助政府的力量來協助來彌補市場機制的不足所以你的方向是會以補助的方式還是引導的方式還是政策導向的方式兩個都有會以什麼樣的方式兩個都有我們希望在學界由國科會來補助在業界由經濟部來補助我們配合教育部來修正我們在學制的發展上面鼓勵教授帶著學生也可以做這些事情\n112410\t130673\t剛剛你有講到就是說一個是國科會是學界的部分學界的部分國科會那產業界部分有經濟部有經濟部我們會協調經濟部來共同來執行好協調經濟部共同執行這又馬上本席要問的另外一個問題啊\n131374\t150140\t因為你自己有透露說這個整個團隊裡面來講現在外交部林佳龍部長也問說何時可以一起喝咖啡說要討論說如何用科技來協助友邦那另外經濟部長也提出說台灣要到海外設晶片園區的想法是不是\n151431\t172183\t此事還在構想還在討論當中還在構想但是因為這個是從媒體這邊看到是您這邊講出來嘛那請教經濟部長既然你現在有跟他有這個talk說海外設晶片園區那請教是到友邦還是非友邦我們沒有講晶片園區其實產業非常多元當然很多的\n173343\t173683\t議員吳誠文列席\n197893\t213192\t言必稱AI啊好像你現在所有的事情所有的計畫所有的方案沒有在前面掛AI兩個字好像就落後了那請教我們心心念念認為說AI人工智慧基本法在今年可以推出\n215290\t233622\t我們規劃中是今年會推出那我們是希望說在年底之前一定會做到一定會做到是指送到行政院還是行政院可以推出版本來給立法院審議國會負責就是要送到行政院那目前的方向勒\n235253\t251072\t目前的方向因為本席心心念念本席我們幾位委員在立法院也已經有AI人工智慧基本法的草案已經出來那當然大家也是希望輸出能夠排審就是最主要要院板這邊要出來大家可以針對這個議題來去做討論嘛\n253234\t268025\t我們現在正在廣泛的諮詢各界的意見包括學界、業界、民間在國科會再出來之前我相信應該也會有諮詢其他這個公聽會或說相關的一個意見那什麼時候能夠讓大家可以看到一個雛形\n269606\t293764\t既然你有講是說年底一定會出來那什麼時候能夠有一個雛形至少讓大家知道說你的方向以及之前本席也問過其他之前的主委我們到底我們的方向是什麼是要比較走向的是美日兩國這種相對比較開放的地方還是說我們要對於歐盟這邊是相對比較保守或說比較謹慎的地方您的想法\n294520\t320006\t我認為兩者要兼顧也就是說保護保護民眾這是非常重要的但是我們不能夠忽略掉產業的發展所以我們會兩者兼顧我們在在這個以前少胖的時候沒有二刀流喔不然我覺得你很像大谷祥平喔又投又打講的面面俱到一邊挖拼雙邊跟啊但是有講好像沒講\n321854\t341590\t您比較重視本席第一次見面我覺得大家都是以禮相待而且只要是專業我們以專業論專業這沒有問題但說實在話你一定有你的方向之前主委講是說我們應該會比較朝向美日就是以開放但是我們希望能夠借重AI但是我認為兩者要兼顧\n343297\t364072\t兩者兼顧我們期待看你的版本出來之後到底是怎麼樣的兩者兼顧希望您說到做到再來有提到是說台積電二奈米廠要進駐希望台積電能夠跟流台灣當然我相信台積電也一定全國國人沒有人不相信台積電會跟流台灣\n364993\t366214\t現在沒有具體只是﹗\n395578\t424095\t只是還在進程當中。那當然確確的這個時程應該是由廠商來宣布。是。但是您有提到說相信台積電更有台灣嘛。但也有提到南部會有二奈米廠。應該會有。應該會有。是。我們當然不希望有什麼樣的變數啦。大家都不希望有變數。但這樣已經有提到嘛。所以說這個南部會是之前提過的縣市還是有其他的縣市?\n426656\t436262\t在高雄?所以預計什麼時程?已經進到建廠的階段了。\n439960\t464708\t最後啦本席還是想請教一下能源的議題啦我看到今天我們相關大家也都有顧慮到能源的議題那國科會這邊也有委員委員有包括說我們的童子賢董事長他也是我們現在國科會委員之一那最近童子賢董事長他有提過就說能源的議題他認為能源供應到轉型的時刻而且\n466392\t480532\t過去他是反核但他現在認為說核能會是一個能夠協助淨零碳排也能夠加速綠能再生的一個過渡的一個階段的取代能源您自己怎麼看有沒有跟這個委員這邊有開過會\n483079\t511047\t還沒有,目前還沒有那有沒有跟委員交換過意見我也是從媒體看到這個訊息我認為賴總統他已經宣示我們的施政一定要傾聽民意所以如果說我們的這個社會傾向在能源的發展能夠多元多元的去探討將來我們政府的施政當然還是會以民意為依歸所以沒有所謂的反核生主牌\n512466\t513766\t我認同反核的意見裡面對於民眾對於社會\n539383\t539403\t獲得獎項\n555673\t584038\t當然沒有一個人希望我們使用的能源是不安全的但現在包括說不管是火力發電風力發電太陽能發電或是核能發電其實每一項發電也都有它的優點跟缺點我一直強調能源是選擇選擇的部分在於是說你怎麼樣來做取捨因為大家都要用能源嘛所以不應該是汙名化任何一種能源再加上最近七大工業國也有發表聲明他們不再反對核能不再發表反核的立場\n585339\t598619\t在發表反核的宣言並且他們有宣誓2035年以前要淘汰藍莓發電這點你有看到嗎?國科會會以科學研究的基礎\n600135\t622343\t來探討這個議題那我們也會兼顧在人文社會領域對這個議題的關注達到如果有全民的共識那我們當然政府就會依行全民的共識來執行什麼樣的全民共識是你認為的全民共識當然就是在貴院立法院能夠同意政府的施政方向所以如果說不是\n623403\t632381\t本席這邊講現在我們有一些委員在提到是說我們要延長使用核能的部分所以立法院這邊沒有延長使用核能的議題我們這邊都不會推動是這樣子嗎\n637192\t646900\t如果在民間討論的結果民意為基礎我們當然會傾聽民意。我相信立法院是代表民意的。\n656728\t658469\t提到是說要使用核能就把\n677509\t700579\t摸黑徹役攻擊講說這個是危害那現在當然我是尊重您以一個專業的立場可是如果說什麼事情都是在推給立法院現在在做這個研議的時候又要講是說你看這是不是又要再傷害民眾甚至講到那種不實的言論講到說那這樣核廢料怎麼處理核廢料放你家好不好這種\n702250\t724862\t刻意的扭曲的話術我覺得這都不是一個專業的話術所以其實還是拉過頭來最後我只請教你一個問題2050淨零碳排是現在政府目標方向也是立法院通過的氣候變遷因應法裡面立法的一個明確的一個目標2050淨零碳排能源配比有講到再生能源要佔幾%\n730398\t739064\t當然這個目標現在是蠻困難的但是我們會努力那至於這個核能的議題本席現在在請教說再生能源要佔幾%\n744461\t770219\t60到70%啦 來啦 主委本席不是要跟你在這種蜘蛛壁教這種地方來考你我只是說在生能源之前提出來的方向2050精靈碳排以現在民進黨政府規劃是要60%到70%是要存在生能源那以現在的技術跟科技你認為可以做得到嗎不要再講說要努力大家都要努力啦你覺得能做到嗎\n771792\t798835\t相當困難相當困難嘛所以我們要比較務實的來看待有什麼樣的能源是可以我還是強調能源是選擇火力發電是一種能源核能發電是一種能源再生能源是一種能源但是怎麼樣務實的滿足國人的需求滿足產業的需求能夠供電無虞又電價相對大家能夠負擔的情況下我們找出最好的能源配比我想這才是一個做科學的精神也才是一個務實的精神\n799375\t806057\t所以既然再生能源60到70%非常困難是不是應該真的要進入到能源轉型的轉型時刻我們會在國科會我們會請專家群來研討這個議題過去並沒有很未來有機會賴總統要\n819020\t828453\t請教國科會專業意見的時候請一定要本於專業的提出正確的方向來讓總統跟上位者來做決策可以嗎同意謝謝\n","txt":"主席謝謝麻煩請吳誠文主委好有請吳主委好\n主委好,主委非常有拼勁喔昨天帶著新任團隊一致排開跟媒體見面會那也誇出海口說三個月要做出有感的成績啊不是規劃,會宣布規劃,不是成績不是做出啊,是規劃要做有感的政策是不是那有感的政策我還正想要稱讚您說現在敢誇出海口的政務官不多了沒想到你連讓我稱讚的機會都不給我\n我們會把方案推出來好方案推出來那方案推出來什麼樣的一個部分是認為說之前是沒有做好或沒有做主的\n之前比較照顧大型的企業我們將來依照賴總統的指示一定要均衡所有的產業我們希望都能夠受惠於臺灣高科技的實力所以說之前有一些中小企業是比較沒有受惠到嘛所以你要講是說要用數位轉型的計畫對不對有數位轉型的計畫也有跨部會的方案就代表說過去在數位的科技運用在中小企業上是比較薄弱的是不是過去比較比較小但是這是市場機制\n我們現在就是藉助政府的力量來協助來彌補市場機制的不足所以你的方向是會以補助的方式還是引導的方式還是政策導向的方式兩個都有會以什麼樣的方式兩個都有我們希望在學界由國科會來補助在業界由經濟部來補助我們配合教育部來修正我們在學制的發展上面鼓勵教授帶著學生也可以做這些事情\n剛剛你有講到就是說一個是國科會是學界的部分學界的部分國科會那產業界部分有經濟部有經濟部我們會協調經濟部來共同來執行好協調經濟部共同執行這又馬上本席要問的另外一個問題啊\n因為你自己有透露說這個整個團隊裡面來講現在外交部林佳龍部長也問說何時可以一起喝咖啡說要討論說如何用科技來協助友邦那另外經濟部長也提出說台灣要到海外設晶片園區的想法是不是\n此事還在構想還在討論當中還在構想但是因為這個是從媒體這邊看到是您這邊講出來嘛那請教經濟部長既然你現在有跟他有這個talk說海外設晶片園區那請教是到友邦還是非友邦我們沒有講晶片園區其實產業非常多元當然很多的\n議員吳誠文列席\n言必稱AI啊好像你現在所有的事情所有的計畫所有的方案沒有在前面掛AI兩個字好像就落後了那請教我們心心念念認為說AI人工智慧基本法在今年可以推出\n我們規劃中是今年會推出那我們是希望說在年底之前一定會做到一定會做到是指送到行政院還是行政院可以推出版本來給立法院審議國會負責就是要送到行政院那目前的方向勒\n目前的方向因為本席心心念念本席我們幾位委員在立法院也已經有AI人工智慧基本法的草案已經出來那當然大家也是希望輸出能夠排審就是最主要要院板這邊要出來大家可以針對這個議題來去做討論嘛\n我們現在正在廣泛的諮詢各界的意見包括學界、業界、民間在國科會再出來之前我相信應該也會有諮詢其他這個公聽會或說相關的一個意見那什麼時候能夠讓大家可以看到一個雛形\n既然你有講是說年底一定會出來那什麼時候能夠有一個雛形至少讓大家知道說你的方向以及之前本席也問過其他之前的主委我們到底我們的方向是什麼是要比較走向的是美日兩國這種相對比較開放的地方還是說我們要對於歐盟這邊是相對比較保守或說比較謹慎的地方您的想法\n我認為兩者要兼顧也就是說保護保護民眾這是非常重要的但是我們不能夠忽略掉產業的發展所以我們會兩者兼顧我們在在這個以前少胖的時候沒有二刀流喔不然我覺得你很像大谷祥平喔又投又打講的面面俱到一邊挖拼雙邊跟啊但是有講好像沒講\n您比較重視本席第一次見面我覺得大家都是以禮相待而且只要是專業我們以專業論專業這沒有問題但說實在話你一定有你的方向之前主委講是說我們應該會比較朝向美日就是以開放但是我們希望能夠借重AI但是我認為兩者要兼顧\n兩者兼顧我們期待看你的版本出來之後到底是怎麼樣的兩者兼顧希望您說到做到再來有提到是說台積電二奈米廠要進駐希望台積電能夠跟流台灣當然我相信台積電也一定全國國人沒有人不相信台積電會跟流台灣\n現在沒有具體只是﹗\n只是還在進程當中。那當然確確的這個時程應該是由廠商來宣布。是。但是您有提到說相信台積電更有台灣嘛。但也有提到南部會有二奈米廠。應該會有。應該會有。是。我們當然不希望有什麼樣的變數啦。大家都不希望有變數。但這樣已經有提到嘛。所以說這個南部會是之前提過的縣市還是有其他的縣市?\n在高雄?所以預計什麼時程?已經進到建廠的階段了。\n最後啦本席還是想請教一下能源的議題啦我看到今天我們相關大家也都有顧慮到能源的議題那國科會這邊也有委員委員有包括說我們的童子賢董事長他也是我們現在國科會委員之一那最近童子賢董事長他有提過就說能源的議題他認為能源供應到轉型的時刻而且\n過去他是反核但他現在認為說核能會是一個能夠協助淨零碳排也能夠加速綠能再生的一個過渡的一個階段的取代能源您自己怎麼看有沒有跟這個委員這邊有開過會\n還沒有,目前還沒有那有沒有跟委員交換過意見我也是從媒體看到這個訊息我認為賴總統他已經宣示我們的施政一定要傾聽民意所以如果說我們的這個社會傾向在能源的發展能夠多元多元的去探討將來我們政府的施政當然還是會以民意為依歸所以沒有所謂的反核生主牌\n我認同反核的意見裡面對於民眾對於社會\n獲得獎項\n當然沒有一個人希望我們使用的能源是不安全的但現在包括說不管是火力發電風力發電太陽能發電或是核能發電其實每一項發電也都有它的優點跟缺點我一直強調能源是選擇選擇的部分在於是說你怎麼樣來做取捨因為大家都要用能源嘛所以不應該是汙名化任何一種能源再加上最近七大工業國也有發表聲明他們不再反對核能不再發表反核的立場\n在發表反核的宣言並且他們有宣誓2035年以前要淘汰藍莓發電這點你有看到嗎?國科會會以科學研究的基礎\n來探討這個議題那我們也會兼顧在人文社會領域對這個議題的關注達到如果有全民的共識那我們當然政府就會依行全民的共識來執行什麼樣的全民共識是你認為的全民共識當然就是在貴院立法院能夠同意政府的施政方向所以如果說不是\n本席這邊講現在我們有一些委員在提到是說我們要延長使用核能的部分所以立法院這邊沒有延長使用核能的議題我們這邊都不會推動是這樣子嗎\n如果在民間討論的結果民意為基礎我們當然會傾聽民意。我相信立法院是代表民意的。\n提到是說要使用核能就把\n摸黑徹役攻擊講說這個是危害那現在當然我是尊重您以一個專業的立場可是如果說什麼事情都是在推給立法院現在在做這個研議的時候又要講是說你看這是不是又要再傷害民眾甚至講到那種不實的言論講到說那這樣核廢料怎麼處理核廢料放你家好不好這種\n刻意的扭曲的話術我覺得這都不是一個專業的話術所以其實還是拉過頭來最後我只請教你一個問題2050淨零碳排是現在政府目標方向也是立法院通過的氣候變遷因應法裡面立法的一個明確的一個目標2050淨零碳排能源配比有講到再生能源要佔幾%\n當然這個目標現在是蠻困難的但是我們會努力那至於這個核能的議題本席現在在請教說再生能源要佔幾%\n60到70%啦 來啦 主委本席不是要跟你在這種蜘蛛壁教這種地方來考你我只是說在生能源之前提出來的方向2050精靈碳排以現在民進黨政府規劃是要60%到70%是要存在生能源那以現在的技術跟科技你認為可以做得到嗎不要再講說要努力大家都要努力啦你覺得能做到嗎\n相當困難相當困難嘛所以我們要比較務實的來看待有什麼樣的能源是可以我還是強調能源是選擇火力發電是一種能源核能發電是一種能源再生能源是一種能源但是怎麼樣務實的滿足國人的需求滿足產業的需求能夠供電無虞又電價相對大家能夠負擔的情況下我們找出最好的能源配比我想這才是一個做科學的精神也才是一個務實的精神\n所以既然再生能源60到70%非常困難是不是應該真的要進入到能源轉型的轉型時刻我們會在國科會我們會請專家群來研討這個議題過去並沒有很未來有機會賴總統要\n請教國科會專業意見的時候請一定要本於專業的提出正確的方向來讓總統跟上位者來做決策可以嗎同意謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.495 --> 00:09.558\n主席謝謝麻煩請吳誠文主委好有請吳主委好\n\n00:15.512 --> 00:42.323\n主委好,主委非常有拼勁喔昨天帶著新任團隊一致排開跟媒體見面會那也誇出海口說三個月要做出有感的成績啊不是規劃,會宣布規劃,不是成績不是做出啊,是規劃要做有感的政策是不是那有感的政策我還正想要稱讚您說現在敢誇出海口的政務官不多了沒想到你連讓我稱讚的機會都不給我\n\n00:44.324 --> 00:51.850\n我們會把方案推出來好方案推出來那方案推出來什麼樣的一個部分是認為說之前是沒有做好或沒有做主的\n\n00:53.106 --> 01:21.914\n之前比較照顧大型的企業我們將來依照賴總統的指示一定要均衡所有的產業我們希望都能夠受惠於臺灣高科技的實力所以說之前有一些中小企業是比較沒有受惠到嘛所以你要講是說要用數位轉型的計畫對不對有數位轉型的計畫也有跨部會的方案就代表說過去在數位的科技運用在中小企業上是比較薄弱的是不是過去比較比較小但是這是市場機制\n\n01:23.755 --> 01:51.450\n我們現在就是藉助政府的力量來協助來彌補市場機制的不足所以你的方向是會以補助的方式還是引導的方式還是政策導向的方式兩個都有會以什麼樣的方式兩個都有我們希望在學界由國科會來補助在業界由經濟部來補助我們配合教育部來修正我們在學制的發展上面鼓勵教授帶著學生也可以做這些事情\n\n01:52.410 --> 02:10.673\n剛剛你有講到就是說一個是國科會是學界的部分學界的部分國科會那產業界部分有經濟部有經濟部我們會協調經濟部來共同來執行好協調經濟部共同執行這又馬上本席要問的另外一個問題啊\n\n02:11.374 --> 02:30.140\n因為你自己有透露說這個整個團隊裡面來講現在外交部林佳龍部長也問說何時可以一起喝咖啡說要討論說如何用科技來協助友邦那另外經濟部長也提出說台灣要到海外設晶片園區的想法是不是\n\n02:31.431 --> 02:52.183\n此事還在構想還在討論當中還在構想但是因為這個是從媒體這邊看到是您這邊講出來嘛那請教經濟部長既然你現在有跟他有這個talk說海外設晶片園區那請教是到友邦還是非友邦我們沒有講晶片園區其實產業非常多元當然很多的\n\n02:53.343 --> 02:53.683\n議員吳誠文列席\n\n03:17.893 --> 03:33.192\n言必稱AI啊好像你現在所有的事情所有的計畫所有的方案沒有在前面掛AI兩個字好像就落後了那請教我們心心念念認為說AI人工智慧基本法在今年可以推出\n\n03:35.290 --> 03:53.622\n我們規劃中是今年會推出那我們是希望說在年底之前一定會做到一定會做到是指送到行政院還是行政院可以推出版本來給立法院審議國會負責就是要送到行政院那目前的方向勒\n\n03:55.253 --> 04:11.072\n目前的方向因為本席心心念念本席我們幾位委員在立法院也已經有AI人工智慧基本法的草案已經出來那當然大家也是希望輸出能夠排審就是最主要要院板這邊要出來大家可以針對這個議題來去做討論嘛\n\n04:13.234 --> 04:28.025\n我們現在正在廣泛的諮詢各界的意見包括學界、業界、民間在國科會再出來之前我相信應該也會有諮詢其他這個公聽會或說相關的一個意見那什麼時候能夠讓大家可以看到一個雛形\n\n04:29.606 --> 04:53.764\n既然你有講是說年底一定會出來那什麼時候能夠有一個雛形至少讓大家知道說你的方向以及之前本席也問過其他之前的主委我們到底我們的方向是什麼是要比較走向的是美日兩國這種相對比較開放的地方還是說我們要對於歐盟這邊是相對比較保守或說比較謹慎的地方您的想法\n\n04:54.520 --> 05:20.006\n我認為兩者要兼顧也就是說保護保護民眾這是非常重要的但是我們不能夠忽略掉產業的發展所以我們會兩者兼顧我們在在這個以前少胖的時候沒有二刀流喔不然我覺得你很像大谷祥平喔又投又打講的面面俱到一邊挖拼雙邊跟啊但是有講好像沒講\n\n05:21.854 --> 05:41.590\n您比較重視本席第一次見面我覺得大家都是以禮相待而且只要是專業我們以專業論專業這沒有問題但說實在話你一定有你的方向之前主委講是說我們應該會比較朝向美日就是以開放但是我們希望能夠借重AI但是我認為兩者要兼顧\n\n05:43.297 --> 06:04.072\n兩者兼顧我們期待看你的版本出來之後到底是怎麼樣的兩者兼顧希望您說到做到再來有提到是說台積電二奈米廠要進駐希望台積電能夠跟流台灣當然我相信台積電也一定全國國人沒有人不相信台積電會跟流台灣\n\n06:04.993 --> 06:06.214\n現在沒有具體只是﹗\n\n06:35.578 --> 07:04.095\n只是還在進程當中。那當然確確的這個時程應該是由廠商來宣布。是。但是您有提到說相信台積電更有台灣嘛。但也有提到南部會有二奈米廠。應該會有。應該會有。是。我們當然不希望有什麼樣的變數啦。大家都不希望有變數。但這樣已經有提到嘛。所以說這個南部會是之前提過的縣市還是有其他的縣市?\n\n07:06.656 --> 07:16.262\n在高雄?所以預計什麼時程?已經進到建廠的階段了。\n\n07:19.960 --> 07:44.708\n最後啦本席還是想請教一下能源的議題啦我看到今天我們相關大家也都有顧慮到能源的議題那國科會這邊也有委員委員有包括說我們的童子賢董事長他也是我們現在國科會委員之一那最近童子賢董事長他有提過就說能源的議題他認為能源供應到轉型的時刻而且\n\n07:46.392 --> 08:00.532\n過去他是反核但他現在認為說核能會是一個能夠協助淨零碳排也能夠加速綠能再生的一個過渡的一個階段的取代能源您自己怎麼看有沒有跟這個委員這邊有開過會\n\n08:03.079 --> 08:31.047\n還沒有,目前還沒有那有沒有跟委員交換過意見我也是從媒體看到這個訊息我認為賴總統他已經宣示我們的施政一定要傾聽民意所以如果說我們的這個社會傾向在能源的發展能夠多元多元的去探討將來我們政府的施政當然還是會以民意為依歸所以沒有所謂的反核生主牌\n\n08:32.466 --> 08:33.766\n我認同反核的意見裡面對於民眾對於社會\n\n08:59.383 --> 08:59.403\n獲得獎項\n\n09:15.673 --> 09:44.038\n當然沒有一個人希望我們使用的能源是不安全的但現在包括說不管是火力發電風力發電太陽能發電或是核能發電其實每一項發電也都有它的優點跟缺點我一直強調能源是選擇選擇的部分在於是說你怎麼樣來做取捨因為大家都要用能源嘛所以不應該是汙名化任何一種能源再加上最近七大工業國也有發表聲明他們不再反對核能不再發表反核的立場\n\n09:45.339 --> 09:58.619\n在發表反核的宣言並且他們有宣誓2035年以前要淘汰藍莓發電這點你有看到嗎?國科會會以科學研究的基礎\n\n10:00.135 --> 10:22.343\n來探討這個議題那我們也會兼顧在人文社會領域對這個議題的關注達到如果有全民的共識那我們當然政府就會依行全民的共識來執行什麼樣的全民共識是你認為的全民共識當然就是在貴院立法院能夠同意政府的施政方向所以如果說不是\n\n10:23.403 --> 10:32.381\n本席這邊講現在我們有一些委員在提到是說我們要延長使用核能的部分所以立法院這邊沒有延長使用核能的議題我們這邊都不會推動是這樣子嗎\n\n10:37.192 --> 10:46.900\n如果在民間討論的結果民意為基礎我們當然會傾聽民意。我相信立法院是代表民意的。\n\n10:56.728 --> 10:58.469\n提到是說要使用核能就把\n\n11:17.509 --> 11:40.579\n摸黑徹役攻擊講說這個是危害那現在當然我是尊重您以一個專業的立場可是如果說什麼事情都是在推給立法院現在在做這個研議的時候又要講是說你看這是不是又要再傷害民眾甚至講到那種不實的言論講到說那這樣核廢料怎麼處理核廢料放你家好不好這種\n\n11:42.250 --> 12:04.862\n刻意的扭曲的話術我覺得這都不是一個專業的話術所以其實還是拉過頭來最後我只請教你一個問題2050淨零碳排是現在政府目標方向也是立法院通過的氣候變遷因應法裡面立法的一個明確的一個目標2050淨零碳排能源配比有講到再生能源要佔幾%\n\n12:10.398 --> 12:19.064\n當然這個目標現在是蠻困難的但是我們會努力那至於這個核能的議題本席現在在請教說再生能源要佔幾%\n\n12:24.461 --> 12:50.219\n60到70%啦來啦主委本席不是要跟你在這種蜘蛛壁教這種地方來考你我只是說在生能源之前提出來的方向2050精靈碳排以現在民進黨政府規劃是要60%到70%是要存在生能源那以現在的技術跟科技你認為可以做得到嗎不要再講說要努力大家都要努力啦你覺得能做到嗎\n\n12:51.792 --> 13:18.835\n相當困難相當困難嘛所以我們要比較務實的來看待有什麼樣的能源是可以我還是強調能源是選擇火力發電是一種能源核能發電是一種能源再生能源是一種能源但是怎麼樣務實的滿足國人的需求滿足產業的需求能夠供電無虞又電價相對大家能夠負擔的情況下我們找出最好的能源配比我想這才是一個做科學的精神也才是一個務實的精神\n\n13:19.375 --> 13:26.057\n所以既然再生能源60到70%非常困難是不是應該真的要進入到能源轉型的轉型時刻我們會在國科會我們會請專家群來研討這個議題過去並沒有很未來有機會賴總統要\n\n13:39.020 --> 13:48.453\n請教國科會專業意見的時候請一定要本於專業的提出正確的方向來讓總統跟上位者來做決策可以嗎同意謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.495,"end":9.558,"text":"主席謝謝麻煩請吳誠文主委好有請吳主委好"},{"start":15.512,"end":42.323,"text":"主委好,主委非常有拼勁喔昨天帶著新任團隊一致排開跟媒體見面會那也誇出海口說三個月要做出有感的成績啊不是規劃,會宣布規劃,不是成績不是做出啊,是規劃要做有感的政策是不是那有感的政策我還正想要稱讚您說現在敢誇出海口的政務官不多了沒想到你連讓我稱讚的機會都不給我"},{"start":44.324,"end":51.85,"text":"我們會把方案推出來好方案推出來那方案推出來什麼樣的一個部分是認為說之前是沒有做好或沒有做主的"},{"start":53.106,"end":81.914,"text":"之前比較照顧大型的企業我們將來依照賴總統的指示一定要均衡所有的產業我們希望都能夠受惠於臺灣高科技的實力所以說之前有一些中小企業是比較沒有受惠到嘛所以你要講是說要用數位轉型的計畫對不對有數位轉型的計畫也有跨部會的方案就代表說過去在數位的科技運用在中小企業上是比較薄弱的是不是過去比較比較小但是這是市場機制"},{"start":83.755,"end":111.45,"text":"我們現在就是藉助政府的力量來協助來彌補市場機制的不足所以你的方向是會以補助的方式還是引導的方式還是政策導向的方式兩個都有會以什麼樣的方式兩個都有我們希望在學界由國科會來補助在業界由經濟部來補助我們配合教育部來修正我們在學制的發展上面鼓勵教授帶著學生也可以做這些事情"},{"start":112.41,"end":130.673,"text":"剛剛你有講到就是說一個是國科會是學界的部分學界的部分國科會那產業界部分有經濟部有經濟部我們會協調經濟部來共同來執行好協調經濟部共同執行這又馬上本席要問的另外一個問題啊"},{"start":131.374,"end":150.14,"text":"因為你自己有透露說這個整個團隊裡面來講現在外交部林佳龍部長也問說何時可以一起喝咖啡說要討論說如何用科技來協助友邦那另外經濟部長也提出說台灣要到海外設晶片園區的想法是不是"},{"start":151.431,"end":172.183,"text":"此事還在構想還在討論當中還在構想但是因為這個是從媒體這邊看到是您這邊講出來嘛那請教經濟部長既然你現在有跟他有這個talk說海外設晶片園區那請教是到友邦還是非友邦我們沒有講晶片園區其實產業非常多元當然很多的"},{"start":173.343,"end":173.683,"text":"議員吳誠文列席"},{"start":197.893,"end":213.192,"text":"言必稱AI啊好像你現在所有的事情所有的計畫所有的方案沒有在前面掛AI兩個字好像就落後了那請教我們心心念念認為說AI人工智慧基本法在今年可以推出"},{"start":215.29,"end":233.622,"text":"我們規劃中是今年會推出那我們是希望說在年底之前一定會做到一定會做到是指送到行政院還是行政院可以推出版本來給立法院審議國會負責就是要送到行政院那目前的方向勒"},{"start":235.253,"end":251.072,"text":"目前的方向因為本席心心念念本席我們幾位委員在立法院也已經有AI人工智慧基本法的草案已經出來那當然大家也是希望輸出能夠排審就是最主要要院板這邊要出來大家可以針對這個議題來去做討論嘛"},{"start":253.234,"end":268.025,"text":"我們現在正在廣泛的諮詢各界的意見包括學界、業界、民間在國科會再出來之前我相信應該也會有諮詢其他這個公聽會或說相關的一個意見那什麼時候能夠讓大家可以看到一個雛形"},{"start":269.606,"end":293.764,"text":"既然你有講是說年底一定會出來那什麼時候能夠有一個雛形至少讓大家知道說你的方向以及之前本席也問過其他之前的主委我們到底我們的方向是什麼是要比較走向的是美日兩國這種相對比較開放的地方還是說我們要對於歐盟這邊是相對比較保守或說比較謹慎的地方您的想法"},{"start":294.52,"end":320.006,"text":"我認為兩者要兼顧也就是說保護保護民眾這是非常重要的但是我們不能夠忽略掉產業的發展所以我們會兩者兼顧我們在在這個以前少胖的時候沒有二刀流喔不然我覺得你很像大谷祥平喔又投又打講的面面俱到一邊挖拼雙邊跟啊但是有講好像沒講"},{"start":321.854,"end":341.59,"text":"您比較重視本席第一次見面我覺得大家都是以禮相待而且只要是專業我們以專業論專業這沒有問題但說實在話你一定有你的方向之前主委講是說我們應該會比較朝向美日就是以開放但是我們希望能夠借重AI但是我認為兩者要兼顧"},{"start":343.297,"end":364.072,"text":"兩者兼顧我們期待看你的版本出來之後到底是怎麼樣的兩者兼顧希望您說到做到再來有提到是說台積電二奈米廠要進駐希望台積電能夠跟流台灣當然我相信台積電也一定全國國人沒有人不相信台積電會跟流台灣"},{"start":364.993,"end":366.214,"text":"現在沒有具體只是﹗"},{"start":395.578,"end":424.095,"text":"只是還在進程當中。那當然確確的這個時程應該是由廠商來宣布。是。但是您有提到說相信台積電更有台灣嘛。但也有提到南部會有二奈米廠。應該會有。應該會有。是。我們當然不希望有什麼樣的變數啦。大家都不希望有變數。但這樣已經有提到嘛。所以說這個南部會是之前提過的縣市還是有其他的縣市?"},{"start":426.656,"end":436.262,"text":"在高雄?所以預計什麼時程?已經進到建廠的階段了。"},{"start":439.96,"end":464.708,"text":"最後啦本席還是想請教一下能源的議題啦我看到今天我們相關大家也都有顧慮到能源的議題那國科會這邊也有委員委員有包括說我們的童子賢董事長他也是我們現在國科會委員之一那最近童子賢董事長他有提過就說能源的議題他認為能源供應到轉型的時刻而且"},{"start":466.392,"end":480.532,"text":"過去他是反核但他現在認為說核能會是一個能夠協助淨零碳排也能夠加速綠能再生的一個過渡的一個階段的取代能源您自己怎麼看有沒有跟這個委員這邊有開過會"},{"start":483.079,"end":511.047,"text":"還沒有,目前還沒有那有沒有跟委員交換過意見我也是從媒體看到這個訊息我認為賴總統他已經宣示我們的施政一定要傾聽民意所以如果說我們的這個社會傾向在能源的發展能夠多元多元的去探討將來我們政府的施政當然還是會以民意為依歸所以沒有所謂的反核生主牌"},{"start":512.466,"end":513.766,"text":"我認同反核的意見裡面對於民眾對於社會"},{"start":539.383,"end":539.403,"text":"獲得獎項"},{"start":555.673,"end":584.038,"text":"當然沒有一個人希望我們使用的能源是不安全的但現在包括說不管是火力發電風力發電太陽能發電或是核能發電其實每一項發電也都有它的優點跟缺點我一直強調能源是選擇選擇的部分在於是說你怎麼樣來做取捨因為大家都要用能源嘛所以不應該是汙名化任何一種能源再加上最近七大工業國也有發表聲明他們不再反對核能不再發表反核的立場"},{"start":585.339,"end":598.619,"text":"在發表反核的宣言並且他們有宣誓2035年以前要淘汰藍莓發電這點你有看到嗎?國科會會以科學研究的基礎"},{"start":600.135,"end":622.343,"text":"來探討這個議題那我們也會兼顧在人文社會領域對這個議題的關注達到如果有全民的共識那我們當然政府就會依行全民的共識來執行什麼樣的全民共識是你認為的全民共識當然就是在貴院立法院能夠同意政府的施政方向所以如果說不是"},{"start":623.403,"end":632.381,"text":"本席這邊講現在我們有一些委員在提到是說我們要延長使用核能的部分所以立法院這邊沒有延長使用核能的議題我們這邊都不會推動是這樣子嗎"},{"start":637.192,"end":646.9,"text":"如果在民間討論的結果民意為基礎我們當然會傾聽民意。我相信立法院是代表民意的。"},{"start":656.728,"end":658.469,"text":"提到是說要使用核能就把"},{"start":677.509,"end":700.579,"text":"摸黑徹役攻擊講說這個是危害那現在當然我是尊重您以一個專業的立場可是如果說什麼事情都是在推給立法院現在在做這個研議的時候又要講是說你看這是不是又要再傷害民眾甚至講到那種不實的言論講到說那這樣核廢料怎麼處理核廢料放你家好不好這種"},{"start":702.25,"end":724.862,"text":"刻意的扭曲的話術我覺得這都不是一個專業的話術所以其實還是拉過頭來最後我只請教你一個問題2050淨零碳排是現在政府目標方向也是立法院通過的氣候變遷因應法裡面立法的一個明確的一個目標2050淨零碳排能源配比有講到再生能源要佔幾%"},{"start":730.398,"end":739.064,"text":"當然這個目標現在是蠻困難的但是我們會努力那至於這個核能的議題本席現在在請教說再生能源要佔幾%"},{"start":744.461,"end":770.219,"text":"60到70%啦 來啦 主委本席不是要跟你在這種蜘蛛壁教這種地方來考你我只是說在生能源之前提出來的方向2050精靈碳排以現在民進黨政府規劃是要60%到70%是要存在生能源那以現在的技術跟科技你認為可以做得到嗎不要再講說要努力大家都要努力啦你覺得能做到嗎"},{"start":771.792,"end":798.835,"text":"相當困難相當困難嘛所以我們要比較務實的來看待有什麼樣的能源是可以我還是強調能源是選擇火力發電是一種能源核能發電是一種能源再生能源是一種能源但是怎麼樣務實的滿足國人的需求滿足產業的需求能夠供電無虞又電價相對大家能夠負擔的情況下我們找出最好的能源配比我想這才是一個做科學的精神也才是一個務實的精神"},{"start":799.375,"end":806.057,"text":"所以既然再生能源60到70%非常困難是不是應該真的要進入到能源轉型的轉型時刻我們會在國科會我們會請專家群來研討這個議題過去並沒有很未來有機會賴總統要"},{"start":819.02,"end":828.453,"text":"請教國科會專業意見的時候請一定要本於專業的提出正確的方向來讓總統跟上位者來做決策可以嗎同意謝謝"}]}}}}