{"id":152867,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152867","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d339c8d1909fa4539c558370595cf14a9f2fcaa3dc194f7380469f81d00442832d6590a054ec0c545ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳菁徽","委員發言時間":"09:26:18 - 09:38:36","影片長度":"00:12:18","會議時間":"2024-05-23T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【5月22日、23日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-23","duration":738,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第17次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":17,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-17"},"end_time":"2024-05-23T09:38:36+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-23T09:26:18+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":282,"blocks":[["陳委員菁徽：（9時26分）主席、各位委員、各位官員，大家早安、大家好。我也請何部長。"],["主席：請何部長。"],["陳委員菁徽：何部長，首先恭喜您，也很謝謝昨天你有到我辦公室，我們一起交流了很多議題，昨天非常非常多委員會也有稍微提到一點國會改革、藐視國會，也有人問了吃早餐等等，這都不是本席要問的，本席其實要為您表達是很敬佩，因為這是您12年前曾經說過的。","（播放影片）"],["陳委員菁徽：所以部長12年前參與一個改造國會終結亂象的研討會，曾經說過現在國會最大的問題是被壓抑，弱化得跟行政院立法局一樣，可是我們今天看到的是執政黨不斷想盡方法地阻撓議事進行，所以我也很想知道部長您當時……因為剛剛林月琴委員、陳昭姿委員也很關心您是工運人士出身，可是後來可能有一些爭議，因此現在很多民團也對您就任有一些不同的看法，本席也很想知道您是不是還令我欽佩，支持12年前你對於國會改革的支持呢？"],["何部長佩珊：委員，跟您報告，12年前那個時候我還是立法院的助理，那時候我就是還在總召的辦公室擔任助理，我受邀民間的智庫基金會來講國會改革的議題……"],["陳委員菁徽：所以您的意思是說這可能也不是您心中真正的想法，是因為當時助理的角色必須如此？"],["何部長佩珊：喔，不，是我當時的想法沒有錯，可是……"],["陳委員菁徽：現在已經……"],["何部長佩珊：可是我想當然我們時代變遷，我們在不同的位置上我們必須有不同的思考啦！所以這一點，我不會去否認我過去的想法，可是現在的……我想您也應該能夠體諒……"],["陳委員菁徽：我們看下一張，昨天也有非常多委員會有跟官員們互相交流有關於未來假使有藐視國會罪這件事情，我們應該要怎麼樣去定義它，但本席絕對不會去質詢比如說吃早餐這樣子的議題，不過這是之前林淑芬委員在第9屆的時候，跟您在這個委員會、這個場地所進行的爭執，當時林淑芬委員說你藐視國會，現在他是11屆的委員，所以本席很希望我們這個委員會在這個會期，還有您在上任的時間都還是可以維持平靜，我們也是看一下當時的影片。","（播放影片）"],["陳委員菁徽：好，當天因為主席、官員、委員全部都是同黨，所以就不便處理，否則當時林委員很堅持您是藐視國會，我想請部長承諾是不是在上任期間都可以保持理性面對，不要再發生類似第9屆的對嗆事件了？"],["何部長佩珊：委員，您放心，當然一定是這樣，謝謝。"],["陳委員菁徽：因為林淑芬委員還在。"],["何部長佩珊：我跟他也非常好，沒有問題，謝謝。"],["陳委員菁徽：這次賴總統在宣誓就職的時候，一個很大的重點是我們全國勞工關心的，他說只要政府在，勞保絕對不會倒，結果隔天勞保局經過一次的精算報告指出，2023年底勞保基金精算負債13兆465億元，潛藏負債也高達12兆872億元，報告更指出若不改革，勞保基金2028年將會破產。我們2024年編列1,200億公務預算挹注基金，統計累積到2024年已經編列2,670億元，可是依照目前的財政情況，1,500億元已經是極限了。再來，撥補的方式只是治標不治本，這個你也同意嘛？昨天我們有交流一下，所以我想請問民進黨勞保改革喊了八年，年金改革也已經砍完了，可是攸關千萬勞工的勞保改革，我們什麼時候會啟動？你在這邊可以給人民一個答案嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：跟委員報告，我剛剛在業務報告還有媒體回答的時候已經講得很清楚，撥補就是改革，我們已經進行改革四年了，而且改革到現在，基金水位創新高，目前勞保財務相對穩健，絕對沒有破產的問題。"],["陳委員菁徽：你在昨天交流的時候有講到一個狀況，只要不要所有的人一起去提領……"],["何部長佩珊：是，這就是所謂的潛藏負債的定義，我想一般社會大眾不是很瞭解潛藏負債的意思，潛藏負債不是負債，它是可能發生的給付責任而已。"],["陳委員菁徽：我們很難預期，因為可能有新興的疫情，可能也會有突發狀況，我們很難去保證，您也不可能保證不會有全部的人同時去提領的狀況，是吧？"],["何部長佩珊：實務上真的不可能這樣發生，這是真的，絕對不可能，因為我們保勞保有1,050萬人，不可能1,050萬人全部都在同一個時間去領。"],["陳委員菁徽：我懂，只要不要大家同時提領就絕對不會破產，所以你現在的意思是撥補也是改革的一環？"],["何部長佩珊：是、是。"],["陳委員菁徽：你還會有除了撥補以外的其他改革作法嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：我們努力來開源，比如增加投資的績效，我們提高費率，我們依法其實還有費率上的空間。"],["陳委員菁徽：關於少子女化，昨天您來交流的時候說很多業務其實是衛福部的業務，但本席要告訴你，光是13項的主要工作中，勞動部就占7項，包括準公共機制、2歲以上育兒津貼、彈性工時、推廣新型態職場托育、提升雇主辦理托兒措施、加強產業聚落提供托兒服務還有促進哺（集）乳室等等。我想請教一下部長，因為少子女化已經是刻不容緩的問題，明年度我們可能會推出我國少子女化對策計畫2.0，勞動部可以有哪些多出來的新政策紅利嗎？因為您希望民間機構也可以一起參與開辦彈性育兒、育兒工時等等，這些真的要給人家誘因，你沒有給人家誘因的話，誰要做這件事情？"],["何部長佩珊：是，委員，目前我們正在試辦育嬰留停彈性化，這是一個很重要的概念，未來你可能可以用小時或是一天去請，而不是一個塊狀一定要請那麼久，也可以方便他回到職場，我們希望能把它進一步落實，不是只有試辦而已，希望倡導更多企業來參與。"],["陳委員菁徽：好，這是主要的，你有沒有其他多出來的政策紅利要再透露一下呢？"],["何部長佩珊：我想少子女化的問題很複雜，真的不是勞動部一個部會能夠解決，其實它是跨部會要處理的，所以未來我會努力跟衛福部一起來研議。"],["陳委員菁徽：還有教育部。"],["何部長佩珊：對，還有教育部。"],["陳委員菁徽：2012年發生勞動基金弊案，經過十年後，2022年勞動部發出官方訊息說追回7,157萬元不法所得，但是至今還有陳姓經理人及其前所屬投信的三點九億餘元尚未追回，請問你對於這個3.9億元、我們全國人民的錢，就任以後追討的規劃為何呢？"],["何部長佩珊：委員，這讓基金局的蘇局長答復。"],["蘇局長郁卿：委員好。有關您剛所提到的個案，我們已經上訴到最高法院，最高法院也已經判決退回到高等法院再重新審查，目前我們正在高院審查中，這個案子的其他部分，我們都已經追回了。"],["陳委員菁徽：好，希望在這四年的任期，我們可以把這3.9億元追回。"],["何部長佩珊：是、是。"],["陳委員菁徽：行政院有修正中央廉政委員會設置要點，這是行政院長親自主持的，比如經濟部長、內政部長、交通部長、NCC、教育部長幾乎都是構成機關之一，為什麼勞動部被排除在外？經過我們剛剛談的弊案，勞動部不是應該也要參加中央廉政委員會的組織架構當中嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：這點我倒真的謝謝委員提醒我，我還不大瞭解，可以容我向行政院瞭解一下狀況再來回答您嗎？"],["陳委員菁徽：您可以在原則上同意我，您應該會申請勞動部也一起加入吧？"],["何部長佩珊：好，我來研究處理，然後跟您報告，好嗎？"],["陳委員菁徽：好，謝謝。最後，我們講到您是工運人士出身，但後來有一些勞團認為您是站在資方的立場，我也想請教你，除了「五缺」缺地、缺電、缺水、缺工、缺才，請問勞動部對於企業五缺，未來最重要的政策走向是什麼？"],["何部長佩珊：我想比較重要的是我們先開發本土的勞動力，尤其我們婦女的勞參率偏低，還有中高齡，這部分我們優先來處理。"],["陳委員菁徽：好，我們給您一個建議，其實剛剛很多委員也已經提到了，勞工最在乎的是缺錢，所以絕對的低薪普遍化如果繼續下去會習慣成自然。根據112年主計總處統計，有408萬人的月薪不超過4.3萬元，令人無法理解的是世界最有錢的排名，臺灣居然人均所得是230萬元，是世界第12名，所以勞動部最大的任務希望可以納入幫我們的貧富差距縮短，因為目前正在持續擴大中。"],["何部長佩珊：好。"],["陳委員菁徽：除了性別還有低薪的窘境，我希望勞動部可不可以針對就業服務法進行大修，在一個月內將修法的方向提供給我們參考呢？"],["何部長佩珊：委員，就業服務法確實應該要全盤檢視，不過跟您報告，就業服務法也是一個大工程，容我有時間好好跟您報告，好嗎？"],["陳委員菁徽：好，我們未來會繼續追這個議題，謝謝。"],["何部長佩珊：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳菁徽委員發言。","接下來請盧縣一委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":464,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-17","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","盧縣一","蘇清泉","王育敏","涂權吉","林淑芬","王正旭","鄭天財Sra 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{\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 719.112, \"end\": 719.252, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 719.252, \"end\": 719.432, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"向\", \"start\": 719.432, \"end\": 719.692, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 719.692, \"end\": 719.852, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"供\", \"start\": 719.852, \"end\": 720.172, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 720.172, \"end\": 720.673, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"參\"}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 720.673, \"end\": 720.893, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 720.893, \"end\": 720.913, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"陳\"}, {\"word\": \"菁\", \"start\": 722.706, \"end\": 722.726, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,512 --> 00:00:11,128\n主席各位委員各位官員大家早安大家好我也請何部長請何部長\n\n2\n00:00:15,831 --> 00:00:16,051\n可以幫我播一下\n\n3\n00:00:43,954 --> 00:00:45,655\n所以部長12年前參與一個改造國會終結亂象的研討會\n\n4\n00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:19,892\n曾經說過現在國會最大的問題是被壓抑弱化的跟行政院立法局一樣可是我們今天看到的是執政黨不斷想盡方法的阻撓議事進行所以我也很想知道部長您當時因為剛剛\n\n5\n00:01:21,673 --> 00:01:39,965\n李月琴委員、陳昭志委員也很關心您是公寓人士出身可是後來可能有一些爭議因此現在很多民團也對您就任有一些不同的看法本席也很想知道說您是不是還令我欽佩支持12年前你對於國會改革的支持呢?\n\n6\n00:01:43,046 --> 00:02:06,187\n委員跟您報告十二年前那個時候我還是立法院的助理那時候我對就是還在總召的辦公室擔任助理那麼我受邀這個民間的智庫基金會然後來講這個國會改革的議題這可能也不是您心中真正的想法是因為當時助理的角色必須如此\n\n7\n00:02:06,587 --> 00:02:06,727\n我們看下一張\n\n8\n00:02:33,315 --> 00:02:48,894\n昨天有非常多委員會有跟互相官員們交流有關於未來假使有藐視國會罪這件事情我們應該要怎麼樣去定義它但本席絕對不會去質詢比如說吃早餐這樣子的議題不過這是\n\n9\n00:02:50,876 --> 00:03:12,083\n之前呢李淑芬委員在第9屆的時候跟您在這個委員會這個場地所進行的爭執當時李淑芬委員說您藐視國會那現在他是11屆的委員所以本席很希望說我們這個委員會在這個會期還有您在上任的時間都還是可以維持平靜我們也是看一下當時的影片\n\n10\n00:03:21,152 --> 00:03:26,010\n那個時候我也會是勞工階級哇這個話講得很好那到底他怎麼回事我們看一下\n\n11\n00:03:27,814 --> 00:03:43,865\n勞基法修法明鏡黨內部很火爆這兩個哪一個先?這邊知恩其身不見其人一度還讓宣讀議事的趙偉停下來看看發生什麼事原來吵架的是明鏡黨\n\n12\n00:03:54,810 --> 00:04:17,204\n當天因為主席、官員、委員全部都是同黨所以就不便處理啦否則當時林委員是很堅持您是藐視國會所以我想承諾說請部長承諾我們是不是在這一個上任的期間都可以保持理性面對不要再發生類似這樣第9屆的對嗆事件了\n\n13\n00:04:19,145 --> 00:04:28,238\n您放心當然一定是這樣謝謝因為林淑芬委員還在啊我跟她也非常好啦沒有問題謝謝謝謝好下一張\n\n14\n00:04:31,528 --> 00:04:48,144\n這次賴總統在宣誓就職的時候很大一個重點是我們全國勞工關心的他說只要政府在勞保絕對不會倒結果隔天勞保局經過一次的精算報告指出2023年底勞保基金精算負債13兆\n\n15\n00:04:49,625 --> 00:04:51,467\n一千五百億元已經是極限了\n\n16\n00:05:15,968 --> 00:05:28,381\n再來撥補的方式只是治標不治本這個你也同意嗎昨天我們有交流了一下所以我想請問說民進黨勞保改革喊了8年年金改革也已經砍完了可是攸關千萬勞工的勞保改革我們什麼時候會啟動你在這邊可以給人民一個答案嗎\n\n17\n00:05:38,251 --> 00:05:57,241\n跟我演報告,我剛剛在業務報告還有那個媒體回答的時候已經講得很清楚,就是說波普也就是改革,我們已經進行改革4年了而且改革到現在基金水位創新高目前老闆財務相對穩健\n\n18\n00:05:59,102 --> 00:06:06,291\n你昨天交流的時候有講到一個狀況,就是只要不要所有的人一起去提領是,這就是所謂的潛藏負債的定義啦我想一般社會大眾不是很了解潛藏負債的意思潛藏負債不是負債\n\n19\n00:06:17,744 --> 00:06:29,777\n我們很難預期因為可能也有新興的疫情可能也會有突發狀況我們很難去保證您也不可能去保證說不會有全部的人同時去提領的狀況是吧\n\n20\n00:06:31,559 --> 00:06:53,511\n就是實務上真的是不可能這樣發生的,這是真的,你絕對不可能因為這是我們寶寶寶有1050萬人,不可能1050萬人全部都在同一個時間距離所以我們現在你的意思是說波普也是改革的一環是是是是是但你還會有除了波普以外的其他改革做法嗎我們努力來開源啦\n\n21\n00:06:55,012 --> 00:06:55,192\n好,我們下一張\n\n22\n00:07:05,798 --> 00:07:33,784\n這個小子女話昨天您來交流的時候說很多的業務其實是衛福部的業務但其實啦這邊要告訴您光是13項的主要工作中勞動部就佔了7項包括準公共機制兩歲以上月的津貼彈性工時推廣新型態的職場托育提升雇主辦理托兒措施加強產業聚落提供托兒服務還有促進這個補給入室啊等等的\n\n23\n00:07:34,824 --> 00:08:02,818\n我想要請教一下部長因為小子女化這個已經是刻不容緩的問題我明年度我們可能會推出我國小子女化對策計畫2.0勞動部可以有哪些新的多出來的政策紅利嗎因為您在講這些希望民間機構也可以一起參與開辦彈性育兒育兒工時等等的這些真的是要給人家誘因啊你沒有給人家誘因的話誰要做這件事情\n\n24\n00:08:03,798 --> 00:08:32,328\n是委員就是目前我們正在事辦御殷留庭彈性話對那麼這個是一個很重要的概念就是未來你可能可以用一用小時去請或是一天去請這樣子而不是一個快狀一定要請那麼久也可以方便他回到職場我們希望能夠把它進一步落實不是只有事辦而已那麼希望可以倡導更多企業的待遇這個是您的主要那其他的你有沒有多出來的政策紅利要再\n\n25\n00:08:33,448 --> 00:08:33,749\n下一張下一張\n\n26\n00:08:52,590 --> 00:09:17,871\n2012年發生的這個勞動基金弊案經過10年後2022年勞動部發出了官方訊息說追回7157萬元不罰所得但是至今還有陳姓經理人還有前所屬的頭姓3.9億餘元目前尚未追回請問你就任之後對於這個3.9億元我們全國人民的錢就任以後追討的規劃為何呢\n\n27\n00:09:19,914 --> 00:09:21,058\n我讓基金局的數據長來答覆\n\n28\n00:09:22,659 --> 00:09:50,106\n委員好就有關您剛剛所提到的個案我們已經上訴到最高法院最高法院也有判已經有退回到高等法院再重新來審查目前我們正在高院審查中那我們這個案子其他的部分我們都已經追回了希望這4年的任期我們可以把這3.9億人追回是是是好但是呢我們看一下下一頁行政院有修正了中央廉政委員會設置要點\n\n29\n00:09:51,946 --> 00:10:07,364\n好這個是行政院長親自主持的比如經濟部長、內政部長、交通部長、NCC、教育部長幾乎都是構成機關之一為什麼勞動部會被排除在外經過我們剛剛的弊案不是很應該勞動部也要參加中央廉政委員會的組織架構當中嗎\n\n30\n00:10:10,582 --> 00:10:11,482\n好,我來研究處理,然後跟您報告好嗎?好,謝謝,下一張\n\n31\n00:10:33,803 --> 00:10:54,650\n最後我們來講到您是供應人士出身的但是這個後來都有一些勞團認為您是站在資方的立場我也想請教您除了五缺缺地缺電缺水缺工缺財請問勞動部對於企業五缺未來的政策走向最重要的是什麼\n\n32\n00:10:56,506 --> 00:11:14,328\n我會想比較重要的是我們先開發本土的勞動力尤其我們婦女的勞參率還偏低還有中高齡這個部分我們先優先來處理最後一張我們給您一個建議其實剛剛很多委員也已經提到了勞工最在乎的是缺錢\n\n33\n00:11:15,740 --> 00:11:24,489\n所以這絕對的低薪普遍化如果繼續下去會習慣陳自然根據112年組計總數統計有408萬人月薪是不超過4.3萬元令人無法理解的是\n\n34\n00:11:32,877 --> 00:12:00,913\n世界最有錢的排名台灣居然人均所得是230萬元是世界第12名所以勞動部最大的任務也希望可以納入幫我們的貧富差距縮短因為他目前正在持續的擴大中所以除了性別還有低薪的這個窘境我都希望勞動部可不可以針對就業服務法進行大修把一個月內將修法的方向提供給我們參考呢\n\n35\n00:12:02,706 --> 00:12:02,726\n謝謝陳菁\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7512\t11128\t主席各位委員各位官員大家早安大家好我也請何部長請何部長\n15831\t16051\t可以幫我播一下\n43954\t45655\t所以部長12年前參與一個改造國會終結亂象的研討會\n65040\t79892\t曾經說過現在國會最大的問題是被壓抑弱化的跟行政院立法局一樣可是我們今天看到的是執政黨不斷想盡方法的阻撓議事進行所以我也很想知道部長您當時因為剛剛\n81673\t99965\t李月琴委員、陳昭志委員也很關心您是公寓人士出身可是後來可能有一些爭議因此現在很多民團也對您就任有一些不同的看法本席也很想知道說您是不是還令我欽佩支持12年前你對於國會改革的支持呢?\n103046\t126187\t委員跟您報告十二年前那個時候我還是立法院的助理那時候我對就是還在總召的辦公室擔任助理那麼我受邀這個民間的智庫基金會然後來講這個國會改革的議題這可能也不是您心中真正的想法是因為當時助理的角色必須如此\n126587\t126727\t我們看下一張\n153315\t168894\t昨天有非常多委員會有跟互相官員們交流有關於未來假使有藐視國會罪這件事情我們應該要怎麼樣去定義它但本席絕對不會去質詢比如說吃早餐這樣子的議題不過這是\n170876\t192083\t之前呢李淑芬委員在第9屆的時候跟您在這個委員會這個場地所進行的爭執當時李淑芬委員說您藐視國會那現在他是11屆的委員所以本席很希望說我們這個委員會在這個會期還有您在上任的時間都還是可以維持平靜我們也是看一下當時的影片\n201152\t206010\t那個時候我也會是勞工階級哇這個話講得很好那到底他怎麼回事我們看一下\n207814\t223865\t勞基法修法明鏡黨內部很火爆這兩個哪一個先?這邊知恩其身不見其人一度還讓宣讀議事的趙偉停下來看看發生什麼事原來吵架的是明鏡黨\n234810\t257204\t當天因為主席、官員、委員全部都是同黨所以就不便處理啦否則當時林委員是很堅持您是藐視國會所以我想承諾說請部長承諾我們是不是在這一個上任的期間都可以保持理性面對不要再發生類似這樣第9屆的對嗆事件了\n259145\t268238\t您放心當然一定是這樣謝謝因為林淑芬委員還在啊我跟她也非常好啦沒有問題謝謝謝謝好下一張\n271528\t288144\t這次賴總統在宣誓就職的時候很大一個重點是我們全國勞工關心的他說只要政府在勞保絕對不會倒結果隔天勞保局經過一次的精算報告指出2023年底勞保基金精算負債13兆\n289625\t291467\t一千五百億元已經是極限了\n315968\t328381\t再來撥補的方式只是治標不治本這個你也同意嗎昨天我們有交流了一下所以我想請問說民進黨勞保改革喊了8年年金改革也已經砍完了可是攸關千萬勞工的勞保改革我們什麼時候會啟動你在這邊可以給人民一個答案嗎\n338251\t357241\t跟我演報告,我剛剛在業務報告還有那個媒體回答的時候已經講得很清楚,就是說波普也就是改革,我們已經進行改革4年了而且改革到現在基金水位創新高目前老闆財務相對穩健\n359102\t366291\t你昨天交流的時候有講到一個狀況,就是只要不要所有的人一起去提領是,這就是所謂的潛藏負債的定義啦我想一般社會大眾不是很了解潛藏負債的意思潛藏負債不是負債\n377744\t389777\t我們很難預期因為可能也有新興的疫情可能也會有突發狀況我們很難去保證您也不可能去保證說不會有全部的人同時去提領的狀況是吧\n391559\t413511\t就是實務上真的是不可能這樣發生的,這是真的,你絕對不可能因為這是我們寶寶寶有1050萬人,不可能1050萬人全部都在同一個時間距離所以我們現在你的意思是說波普也是改革的一環是是是是是但你還會有除了波普以外的其他改革做法嗎我們努力來開源啦\n415012\t415192\t好,我們下一張\n425798\t453784\t這個小子女話昨天您來交流的時候說很多的業務其實是衛福部的業務但其實啦這邊要告訴您光是13項的主要工作中勞動部就佔了7項包括準公共機制兩歲以上月的津貼彈性工時推廣新型態的職場托育提升雇主辦理托兒措施加強產業聚落提供托兒服務還有促進這個補給入室啊等等的\n454824\t482818\t我想要請教一下部長因為小子女化這個已經是刻不容緩的問題我明年度我們可能會推出我國小子女化對策計畫2.0勞動部可以有哪些新的多出來的政策紅利嗎因為您在講這些希望民間機構也可以一起參與開辦彈性育兒育兒工時等等的這些真的是要給人家誘因啊你沒有給人家誘因的話誰要做這件事情\n483798\t512328\t是委員就是目前我們正在事辦御殷留庭彈性話對那麼這個是一個很重要的概念就是未來你可能可以用一用小時去請或是一天去請這樣子而不是一個快狀一定要請那麼久也可以方便他回到職場我們希望能夠把它進一步落實不是只有事辦而已那麼希望可以倡導更多企業的待遇這個是您的主要那其他的你有沒有多出來的政策紅利要再\n513448\t513749\t下一張下一張\n532590\t557871\t2012年發生的這個勞動基金弊案經過10年後2022年勞動部發出了官方訊息說追回7157萬元不罰所得但是至今還有陳姓經理人還有前所屬的頭姓3.9億餘元目前尚未追回請問你就任之後對於這個3.9億元我們全國人民的錢就任以後追討的規劃為何呢\n559914\t561058\t我讓基金局的數據長來答覆\n562659\t590106\t委員好就有關您剛剛所提到的個案我們已經上訴到最高法院最高法院也有判已經有退回到高等法院再重新來審查目前我們正在高院審查中那我們這個案子其他的部分我們都已經追回了希望這4年的任期我們可以把這3.9億人追回是是是好但是呢我們看一下下一頁行政院有修正了中央廉政委員會設置要點\n591946\t607364\t好這個是行政院長親自主持的比如經濟部長、內政部長、交通部長、NCC、教育部長幾乎都是構成機關之一為什麼勞動部會被排除在外經過我們剛剛的弊案不是很應該勞動部也要參加中央廉政委員會的組織架構當中嗎\n610582\t611482\t好,我來研究處理,然後跟您報告好嗎?好,謝謝,下一張\n633803\t654650\t最後我們來講到您是供應人士出身的但是這個後來都有一些勞團認為您是站在資方的立場我也想請教您除了五缺缺地缺電缺水缺工缺財請問勞動部對於企業五缺未來的政策走向最重要的是什麼\n656506\t674328\t我會想比較重要的是我們先開發本土的勞動力尤其我們婦女的勞參率還偏低還有中高齡這個部分我們先優先來處理最後一張我們給您一個建議其實剛剛很多委員也已經提到了勞工最在乎的是缺錢\n675740\t684489\t所以這絕對的低薪普遍化如果繼續下去會習慣陳自然根據112年組計總數統計有408萬人月薪是不超過4.3萬元令人無法理解的是\n692877\t720913\t世界最有錢的排名台灣居然人均所得是230萬元是世界第12名所以勞動部最大的任務也希望可以納入幫我們的貧富差距縮短因為他目前正在持續的擴大中所以除了性別還有低薪的這個窘境我都希望勞動部可不可以針對就業服務法進行大修把一個月內將修法的方向提供給我們參考呢\n722706\t722726\t謝謝陳菁\n","txt":"主席各位委員各位官員大家早安大家好我也請何部長請何部長\n可以幫我播一下\n所以部長12年前參與一個改造國會終結亂象的研討會\n曾經說過現在國會最大的問題是被壓抑弱化的跟行政院立法局一樣可是我們今天看到的是執政黨不斷想盡方法的阻撓議事進行所以我也很想知道部長您當時因為剛剛\n李月琴委員、陳昭志委員也很關心您是公寓人士出身可是後來可能有一些爭議因此現在很多民團也對您就任有一些不同的看法本席也很想知道說您是不是還令我欽佩支持12年前你對於國會改革的支持呢?\n委員跟您報告十二年前那個時候我還是立法院的助理那時候我對就是還在總召的辦公室擔任助理那麼我受邀這個民間的智庫基金會然後來講這個國會改革的議題這可能也不是您心中真正的想法是因為當時助理的角色必須如此\n我們看下一張\n昨天有非常多委員會有跟互相官員們交流有關於未來假使有藐視國會罪這件事情我們應該要怎麼樣去定義它但本席絕對不會去質詢比如說吃早餐這樣子的議題不過這是\n之前呢李淑芬委員在第9屆的時候跟您在這個委員會這個場地所進行的爭執當時李淑芬委員說您藐視國會那現在他是11屆的委員所以本席很希望說我們這個委員會在這個會期還有您在上任的時間都還是可以維持平靜我們也是看一下當時的影片\n那個時候我也會是勞工階級哇這個話講得很好那到底他怎麼回事我們看一下\n勞基法修法明鏡黨內部很火爆這兩個哪一個先?這邊知恩其身不見其人一度還讓宣讀議事的趙偉停下來看看發生什麼事原來吵架的是明鏡黨\n當天因為主席、官員、委員全部都是同黨所以就不便處理啦否則當時林委員是很堅持您是藐視國會所以我想承諾說請部長承諾我們是不是在這一個上任的期間都可以保持理性面對不要再發生類似這樣第9屆的對嗆事件了\n您放心當然一定是這樣謝謝因為林淑芬委員還在啊我跟她也非常好啦沒有問題謝謝謝謝好下一張\n這次賴總統在宣誓就職的時候很大一個重點是我們全國勞工關心的他說只要政府在勞保絕對不會倒結果隔天勞保局經過一次的精算報告指出2023年底勞保基金精算負債13兆\n一千五百億元已經是極限了\n再來撥補的方式只是治標不治本這個你也同意嗎昨天我們有交流了一下所以我想請問說民進黨勞保改革喊了8年年金改革也已經砍完了可是攸關千萬勞工的勞保改革我們什麼時候會啟動你在這邊可以給人民一個答案嗎\n跟我演報告,我剛剛在業務報告還有那個媒體回答的時候已經講得很清楚,就是說波普也就是改革,我們已經進行改革4年了而且改革到現在基金水位創新高目前老闆財務相對穩健\n你昨天交流的時候有講到一個狀況,就是只要不要所有的人一起去提領是,這就是所謂的潛藏負債的定義啦我想一般社會大眾不是很了解潛藏負債的意思潛藏負債不是負債\n我們很難預期因為可能也有新興的疫情可能也會有突發狀況我們很難去保證您也不可能去保證說不會有全部的人同時去提領的狀況是吧\n就是實務上真的是不可能這樣發生的,這是真的,你絕對不可能因為這是我們寶寶寶有1050萬人,不可能1050萬人全部都在同一個時間距離所以我們現在你的意思是說波普也是改革的一環是是是是是但你還會有除了波普以外的其他改革做法嗎我們努力來開源啦\n好,我們下一張\n這個小子女話昨天您來交流的時候說很多的業務其實是衛福部的業務但其實啦這邊要告訴您光是13項的主要工作中勞動部就佔了7項包括準公共機制兩歲以上月的津貼彈性工時推廣新型態的職場托育提升雇主辦理托兒措施加強產業聚落提供托兒服務還有促進這個補給入室啊等等的\n我想要請教一下部長因為小子女化這個已經是刻不容緩的問題我明年度我們可能會推出我國小子女化對策計畫2.0勞動部可以有哪些新的多出來的政策紅利嗎因為您在講這些希望民間機構也可以一起參與開辦彈性育兒育兒工時等等的這些真的是要給人家誘因啊你沒有給人家誘因的話誰要做這件事情\n是委員就是目前我們正在事辦御殷留庭彈性話對那麼這個是一個很重要的概念就是未來你可能可以用一用小時去請或是一天去請這樣子而不是一個快狀一定要請那麼久也可以方便他回到職場我們希望能夠把它進一步落實不是只有事辦而已那麼希望可以倡導更多企業的待遇這個是您的主要那其他的你有沒有多出來的政策紅利要再\n下一張下一張\n2012年發生的這個勞動基金弊案經過10年後2022年勞動部發出了官方訊息說追回7157萬元不罰所得但是至今還有陳姓經理人還有前所屬的頭姓3.9億餘元目前尚未追回請問你就任之後對於這個3.9億元我們全國人民的錢就任以後追討的規劃為何呢\n我讓基金局的數據長來答覆\n委員好就有關您剛剛所提到的個案我們已經上訴到最高法院最高法院也有判已經有退回到高等法院再重新來審查目前我們正在高院審查中那我們這個案子其他的部分我們都已經追回了希望這4年的任期我們可以把這3.9億人追回是是是好但是呢我們看一下下一頁行政院有修正了中央廉政委員會設置要點\n好這個是行政院長親自主持的比如經濟部長、內政部長、交通部長、NCC、教育部長幾乎都是構成機關之一為什麼勞動部會被排除在外經過我們剛剛的弊案不是很應該勞動部也要參加中央廉政委員會的組織架構當中嗎\n好,我來研究處理,然後跟您報告好嗎?好,謝謝,下一張\n最後我們來講到您是供應人士出身的但是這個後來都有一些勞團認為您是站在資方的立場我也想請教您除了五缺缺地缺電缺水缺工缺財請問勞動部對於企業五缺未來的政策走向最重要的是什麼\n我會想比較重要的是我們先開發本土的勞動力尤其我們婦女的勞參率還偏低還有中高齡這個部分我們先優先來處理最後一張我們給您一個建議其實剛剛很多委員也已經提到了勞工最在乎的是缺錢\n所以這絕對的低薪普遍化如果繼續下去會習慣陳自然根據112年組計總數統計有408萬人月薪是不超過4.3萬元令人無法理解的是\n世界最有錢的排名台灣居然人均所得是230萬元是世界第12名所以勞動部最大的任務也希望可以納入幫我們的貧富差距縮短因為他目前正在持續的擴大中所以除了性別還有低薪的這個窘境我都希望勞動部可不可以針對就業服務法進行大修把一個月內將修法的方向提供給我們參考呢\n謝謝陳菁\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.512 --> 00:11.128\n主席各位委員各位官員大家早安大家好我也請何部長請何部長\n\n00:15.831 --> 00:16.051\n可以幫我播一下\n\n00:43.954 --> 00:45.655\n所以部長12年前參與一個改造國會終結亂象的研討會\n\n01:05.040 --> 01:19.892\n曾經說過現在國會最大的問題是被壓抑弱化的跟行政院立法局一樣可是我們今天看到的是執政黨不斷想盡方法的阻撓議事進行所以我也很想知道部長您當時因為剛剛\n\n01:21.673 --> 01:39.965\n李月琴委員、陳昭志委員也很關心您是公寓人士出身可是後來可能有一些爭議因此現在很多民團也對您就任有一些不同的看法本席也很想知道說您是不是還令我欽佩支持12年前你對於國會改革的支持呢?\n\n01:43.046 --> 02:06.187\n委員跟您報告十二年前那個時候我還是立法院的助理那時候我對就是還在總召的辦公室擔任助理那麼我受邀這個民間的智庫基金會然後來講這個國會改革的議題這可能也不是您心中真正的想法是因為當時助理的角色必須如此\n\n02:06.587 --> 02:06.727\n我們看下一張\n\n02:33.315 --> 02:48.894\n昨天有非常多委員會有跟互相官員們交流有關於未來假使有藐視國會罪這件事情我們應該要怎麼樣去定義它但本席絕對不會去質詢比如說吃早餐這樣子的議題不過這是\n\n02:50.876 --> 03:12.083\n之前呢李淑芬委員在第9屆的時候跟您在這個委員會這個場地所進行的爭執當時李淑芬委員說您藐視國會那現在他是11屆的委員所以本席很希望說我們這個委員會在這個會期還有您在上任的時間都還是可以維持平靜我們也是看一下當時的影片\n\n03:21.152 --> 03:26.010\n那個時候我也會是勞工階級哇這個話講得很好那到底他怎麼回事我們看一下\n\n03:27.814 --> 03:43.865\n勞基法修法明鏡黨內部很火爆這兩個哪一個先?這邊知恩其身不見其人一度還讓宣讀議事的趙偉停下來看看發生什麼事原來吵架的是明鏡黨\n\n03:54.810 --> 04:17.204\n當天因為主席、官員、委員全部都是同黨所以就不便處理啦否則當時林委員是很堅持您是藐視國會所以我想承諾說請部長承諾我們是不是在這一個上任的期間都可以保持理性面對不要再發生類似這樣第9屆的對嗆事件了\n\n04:19.145 --> 04:28.238\n您放心當然一定是這樣謝謝因為林淑芬委員還在啊我跟她也非常好啦沒有問題謝謝謝謝好下一張\n\n04:31.528 --> 04:48.144\n這次賴總統在宣誓就職的時候很大一個重點是我們全國勞工關心的他說只要政府在勞保絕對不會倒結果隔天勞保局經過一次的精算報告指出2023年底勞保基金精算負債13兆\n\n04:49.625 --> 04:51.467\n一千五百億元已經是極限了\n\n05:15.968 --> 05:28.381\n再來撥補的方式只是治標不治本這個你也同意嗎昨天我們有交流了一下所以我想請問說民進黨勞保改革喊了8年年金改革也已經砍完了可是攸關千萬勞工的勞保改革我們什麼時候會啟動你在這邊可以給人民一個答案嗎\n\n05:38.251 --> 05:57.241\n跟我演報告,我剛剛在業務報告還有那個媒體回答的時候已經講得很清楚,就是說波普也就是改革,我們已經進行改革4年了而且改革到現在基金水位創新高目前老闆財務相對穩健\n\n05:59.102 --> 06:06.291\n你昨天交流的時候有講到一個狀況,就是只要不要所有的人一起去提領是,這就是所謂的潛藏負債的定義啦我想一般社會大眾不是很了解潛藏負債的意思潛藏負債不是負債\n\n06:17.744 --> 06:29.777\n我們很難預期因為可能也有新興的疫情可能也會有突發狀況我們很難去保證您也不可能去保證說不會有全部的人同時去提領的狀況是吧\n\n06:31.559 --> 06:53.511\n就是實務上真的是不可能這樣發生的,這是真的,你絕對不可能因為這是我們寶寶寶有1050萬人,不可能1050萬人全部都在同一個時間距離所以我們現在你的意思是說波普也是改革的一環是是是是是但你還會有除了波普以外的其他改革做法嗎我們努力來開源啦\n\n06:55.012 --> 06:55.192\n好,我們下一張\n\n07:05.798 --> 07:33.784\n這個小子女話昨天您來交流的時候說很多的業務其實是衛福部的業務但其實啦這邊要告訴您光是13項的主要工作中勞動部就佔了7項包括準公共機制兩歲以上月的津貼彈性工時推廣新型態的職場托育提升雇主辦理托兒措施加強產業聚落提供托兒服務還有促進這個補給入室啊等等的\n\n07:34.824 --> 08:02.818\n我想要請教一下部長因為小子女化這個已經是刻不容緩的問題我明年度我們可能會推出我國小子女化對策計畫2.0勞動部可以有哪些新的多出來的政策紅利嗎因為您在講這些希望民間機構也可以一起參與開辦彈性育兒育兒工時等等的這些真的是要給人家誘因啊你沒有給人家誘因的話誰要做這件事情\n\n08:03.798 --> 08:32.328\n是委員就是目前我們正在事辦御殷留庭彈性話對那麼這個是一個很重要的概念就是未來你可能可以用一用小時去請或是一天去請這樣子而不是一個快狀一定要請那麼久也可以方便他回到職場我們希望能夠把它進一步落實不是只有事辦而已那麼希望可以倡導更多企業的待遇這個是您的主要那其他的你有沒有多出來的政策紅利要再\n\n08:33.448 --> 08:33.749\n下一張下一張\n\n08:52.590 --> 09:17.871\n2012年發生的這個勞動基金弊案經過10年後2022年勞動部發出了官方訊息說追回7157萬元不罰所得但是至今還有陳姓經理人還有前所屬的頭姓3.9億餘元目前尚未追回請問你就任之後對於這個3.9億元我們全國人民的錢就任以後追討的規劃為何呢\n\n09:19.914 --> 09:21.058\n我讓基金局的數據長來答覆\n\n09:22.659 --> 09:50.106\n委員好就有關您剛剛所提到的個案我們已經上訴到最高法院最高法院也有判已經有退回到高等法院再重新來審查目前我們正在高院審查中那我們這個案子其他的部分我們都已經追回了希望這4年的任期我們可以把這3.9億人追回是是是好但是呢我們看一下下一頁行政院有修正了中央廉政委員會設置要點\n\n09:51.946 --> 10:07.364\n好這個是行政院長親自主持的比如經濟部長、內政部長、交通部長、NCC、教育部長幾乎都是構成機關之一為什麼勞動部會被排除在外經過我們剛剛的弊案不是很應該勞動部也要參加中央廉政委員會的組織架構當中嗎\n\n10:10.582 --> 10:11.482\n好,我來研究處理,然後跟您報告好嗎?好,謝謝,下一張\n\n10:33.803 --> 10:54.650\n最後我們來講到您是供應人士出身的但是這個後來都有一些勞團認為您是站在資方的立場我也想請教您除了五缺缺地缺電缺水缺工缺財請問勞動部對於企業五缺未來的政策走向最重要的是什麼\n\n10:56.506 --> 11:14.328\n我會想比較重要的是我們先開發本土的勞動力尤其我們婦女的勞參率還偏低還有中高齡這個部分我們先優先來處理最後一張我們給您一個建議其實剛剛很多委員也已經提到了勞工最在乎的是缺錢\n\n11:15.740 --> 11:24.489\n所以這絕對的低薪普遍化如果繼續下去會習慣陳自然根據112年組計總數統計有408萬人月薪是不超過4.3萬元令人無法理解的是\n\n11:32.877 --> 12:00.913\n世界最有錢的排名台灣居然人均所得是230萬元是世界第12名所以勞動部最大的任務也希望可以納入幫我們的貧富差距縮短因為他目前正在持續的擴大中所以除了性別還有低薪的這個窘境我都希望勞動部可不可以針對就業服務法進行大修把一個月內將修法的方向提供給我們參考呢\n\n12:02.706 --> 12:02.726\n謝謝陳菁\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.512,"end":11.128,"text":"主席各位委員各位官員大家早安大家好我也請何部長請何部長"},{"start":15.831,"end":16.051,"text":"可以幫我播一下"},{"start":43.954,"end":45.655,"text":"所以部長12年前參與一個改造國會終結亂象的研討會"},{"start":65.04,"end":79.892,"text":"曾經說過現在國會最大的問題是被壓抑弱化的跟行政院立法局一樣可是我們今天看到的是執政黨不斷想盡方法的阻撓議事進行所以我也很想知道部長您當時因為剛剛"},{"start":81.673,"end":99.965,"text":"李月琴委員、陳昭志委員也很關心您是公寓人士出身可是後來可能有一些爭議因此現在很多民團也對您就任有一些不同的看法本席也很想知道說您是不是還令我欽佩支持12年前你對於國會改革的支持呢?"},{"start":103.046,"end":126.187,"text":"委員跟您報告十二年前那個時候我還是立法院的助理那時候我對就是還在總召的辦公室擔任助理那麼我受邀這個民間的智庫基金會然後來講這個國會改革的議題這可能也不是您心中真正的想法是因為當時助理的角色必須如此"},{"start":126.587,"end":126.727,"text":"我們看下一張"},{"start":153.315,"end":168.894,"text":"昨天有非常多委員會有跟互相官員們交流有關於未來假使有藐視國會罪這件事情我們應該要怎麼樣去定義它但本席絕對不會去質詢比如說吃早餐這樣子的議題不過這是"},{"start":170.876,"end":192.083,"text":"之前呢李淑芬委員在第9屆的時候跟您在這個委員會這個場地所進行的爭執當時李淑芬委員說您藐視國會那現在他是11屆的委員所以本席很希望說我們這個委員會在這個會期還有您在上任的時間都還是可以維持平靜我們也是看一下當時的影片"},{"start":201.152,"end":206.01,"text":"那個時候我也會是勞工階級哇這個話講得很好那到底他怎麼回事我們看一下"},{"start":207.814,"end":223.865,"text":"勞基法修法明鏡黨內部很火爆這兩個哪一個先?這邊知恩其身不見其人一度還讓宣讀議事的趙偉停下來看看發生什麼事原來吵架的是明鏡黨"},{"start":234.81,"end":257.204,"text":"當天因為主席、官員、委員全部都是同黨所以就不便處理啦否則當時林委員是很堅持您是藐視國會所以我想承諾說請部長承諾我們是不是在這一個上任的期間都可以保持理性面對不要再發生類似這樣第9屆的對嗆事件了"},{"start":259.145,"end":268.238,"text":"您放心當然一定是這樣謝謝因為林淑芬委員還在啊我跟她也非常好啦沒有問題謝謝謝謝好下一張"},{"start":271.528,"end":288.144,"text":"這次賴總統在宣誓就職的時候很大一個重點是我們全國勞工關心的他說只要政府在勞保絕對不會倒結果隔天勞保局經過一次的精算報告指出2023年底勞保基金精算負債13兆"},{"start":289.625,"end":291.467,"text":"一千五百億元已經是極限了"},{"start":315.968,"end":328.381,"text":"再來撥補的方式只是治標不治本這個你也同意嗎昨天我們有交流了一下所以我想請問說民進黨勞保改革喊了8年年金改革也已經砍完了可是攸關千萬勞工的勞保改革我們什麼時候會啟動你在這邊可以給人民一個答案嗎"},{"start":338.251,"end":357.241,"text":"跟我演報告,我剛剛在業務報告還有那個媒體回答的時候已經講得很清楚,就是說波普也就是改革,我們已經進行改革4年了而且改革到現在基金水位創新高目前老闆財務相對穩健"},{"start":359.102,"end":366.291,"text":"你昨天交流的時候有講到一個狀況,就是只要不要所有的人一起去提領是,這就是所謂的潛藏負債的定義啦我想一般社會大眾不是很了解潛藏負債的意思潛藏負債不是負債"},{"start":377.744,"end":389.777,"text":"我們很難預期因為可能也有新興的疫情可能也會有突發狀況我們很難去保證您也不可能去保證說不會有全部的人同時去提領的狀況是吧"},{"start":391.559,"end":413.511,"text":"就是實務上真的是不可能這樣發生的,這是真的,你絕對不可能因為這是我們寶寶寶有1050萬人,不可能1050萬人全部都在同一個時間距離所以我們現在你的意思是說波普也是改革的一環是是是是是但你還會有除了波普以外的其他改革做法嗎我們努力來開源啦"},{"start":415.012,"end":415.192,"text":"好,我們下一張"},{"start":425.798,"end":453.784,"text":"這個小子女話昨天您來交流的時候說很多的業務其實是衛福部的業務但其實啦這邊要告訴您光是13項的主要工作中勞動部就佔了7項包括準公共機制兩歲以上月的津貼彈性工時推廣新型態的職場托育提升雇主辦理托兒措施加強產業聚落提供托兒服務還有促進這個補給入室啊等等的"},{"start":454.824,"end":482.818,"text":"我想要請教一下部長因為小子女化這個已經是刻不容緩的問題我明年度我們可能會推出我國小子女化對策計畫2.0勞動部可以有哪些新的多出來的政策紅利嗎因為您在講這些希望民間機構也可以一起參與開辦彈性育兒育兒工時等等的這些真的是要給人家誘因啊你沒有給人家誘因的話誰要做這件事情"},{"start":483.798,"end":512.328,"text":"是委員就是目前我們正在事辦御殷留庭彈性話對那麼這個是一個很重要的概念就是未來你可能可以用一用小時去請或是一天去請這樣子而不是一個快狀一定要請那麼久也可以方便他回到職場我們希望能夠把它進一步落實不是只有事辦而已那麼希望可以倡導更多企業的待遇這個是您的主要那其他的你有沒有多出來的政策紅利要再"},{"start":513.448,"end":513.749,"text":"下一張下一張"},{"start":532.59,"end":557.871,"text":"2012年發生的這個勞動基金弊案經過10年後2022年勞動部發出了官方訊息說追回7157萬元不罰所得但是至今還有陳姓經理人還有前所屬的頭姓3.9億餘元目前尚未追回請問你就任之後對於這個3.9億元我們全國人民的錢就任以後追討的規劃為何呢"},{"start":559.914,"end":561.058,"text":"我讓基金局的數據長來答覆"},{"start":562.659,"end":590.106,"text":"委員好就有關您剛剛所提到的個案我們已經上訴到最高法院最高法院也有判已經有退回到高等法院再重新來審查目前我們正在高院審查中那我們這個案子其他的部分我們都已經追回了希望這4年的任期我們可以把這3.9億人追回是是是好但是呢我們看一下下一頁行政院有修正了中央廉政委員會設置要點"},{"start":591.946,"end":607.364,"text":"好這個是行政院長親自主持的比如經濟部長、內政部長、交通部長、NCC、教育部長幾乎都是構成機關之一為什麼勞動部會被排除在外經過我們剛剛的弊案不是很應該勞動部也要參加中央廉政委員會的組織架構當中嗎"},{"start":610.582,"end":611.482,"text":"好,我來研究處理,然後跟您報告好嗎?好,謝謝,下一張"},{"start":633.803,"end":654.65,"text":"最後我們來講到您是供應人士出身的但是這個後來都有一些勞團認為您是站在資方的立場我也想請教您除了五缺缺地缺電缺水缺工缺財請問勞動部對於企業五缺未來的政策走向最重要的是什麼"},{"start":656.506,"end":674.328,"text":"我會想比較重要的是我們先開發本土的勞動力尤其我們婦女的勞參率還偏低還有中高齡這個部分我們先優先來處理最後一張我們給您一個建議其實剛剛很多委員也已經提到了勞工最在乎的是缺錢"},{"start":675.74,"end":684.489,"text":"所以這絕對的低薪普遍化如果繼續下去會習慣陳自然根據112年組計總數統計有408萬人月薪是不超過4.3萬元令人無法理解的是"},{"start":692.877,"end":720.913,"text":"世界最有錢的排名台灣居然人均所得是230萬元是世界第12名所以勞動部最大的任務也希望可以納入幫我們的貧富差距縮短因為他目前正在持續的擴大中所以除了性別還有低薪的這個窘境我都希望勞動部可不可以針對就業服務法進行大修把一個月內將修法的方向提供給我們參考呢"},{"start":722.706,"end":722.726,"text":"謝謝陳菁"}]}}}}