{"id":152868,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152868","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d339c8d1909fa4537c545fd73dece601f1f99622ceb699a780469f81d004428328bce2618ac0fdaa5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭正鈐","委員發言時間":"09:29:55 - 09:38:48","影片長度":"00:08:53","會議時間":"2024-05-23T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請公平交易委員會主任委員就「外送平台併購是否涉及限制競爭之調查程序、認定原則及對消費者權益影響之配套措施」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查：\n（一）本院委員邱志偉等16人擬具「多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具「多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案」案。）","date":"2024-05-23","duration":533,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-13"},"end_time":"2024-05-23T09:38:48+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-23T09:29:55+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":204,"blocks":[["鄭委員正鈐：（9時30分）謝謝主席。我想請公平會主委。"],["主席：請李主委。"],["李主任委員鎂：委員早。"],["鄭委員正鈐：主委早，今天我們特別針對「外送平台併購是否涉及限制競爭之調查程序、認定原則及對消費者權益影響之配套措施」進行報告及質詢，這個議題很大，對消費者的影響也很大，可是我發現這是我收過最少的一個報告，就只有2頁，連1張都寫不滿，第2頁都寫不滿，這也表示這個問題確實非常棘手。我先請教主委，foodpanda是哪一國的公司？母公司，不知道？"],["李主任委員鎂：德國。"],["鄭委員正鈐：德國的公司嘛！那Uber Eats的母公司是？"],["李主任委員鎂：美國。"],["鄭委員正鈐：美國的嘛！所以其實這是兩家外資公司，競爭的市場在臺灣，這讓我想到另外一個很類似的個案，就是錢櫃跟好樂迪的案子，錢櫃跟好樂迪兩家都是臺灣的公司，而且都是公開發行的公司，請問這兩家公司當時公平會的決議後來有沒有被follow？"],["李主任委員鎂：我們當時並沒有核准他們的結合。"],["鄭委員正鈐：是，那他們現在的情況怎麼樣？"],["李主任委員鎂：現在兩家分別在經營。"],["鄭委員正鈐：對，兩家在經營，可是他們後面的股東結構其實幾乎是完全整合的情況，針對這個部分，我想沒關係，因為它就是一個市場經濟的狀態。那我們現在來看foodpanda跟Uber Eats的狀態，因為他們其實是兩家外國的公司，雖然之前很多人都以為foodpanda是大陸公司，可是其實它不是，它是德國公司，這我剛剛也特別提到。","針對這個部分我們就來思考幾個問題，根據行政院消保處的統計，去年消費者糾紛有七萬八千多件，比前一年多了八千多件，其中有多少是跟外送平台有關？主委知不知道？根據消保處這邊的資料，我想特別提到的狀態就是，因為跟外送平台有關的已經變成第二類，在運輸類當中非常的多，創十年的新高。在這麼多的消費糾紛當中，行政院消保處今天有來嘛，我發現消保處對這部分其實也沒有辦法有很好的回應。我們看到在消保處針對外送平台的回應報告當中，就直接寫到有關外送平台，消保處在111年、112年多次召開指定中央目的事業主管機關之研商及協調會議，鑑於外送平台涉及面向多元且營運型態與法律關係又較為複雜……然後也請外交部去瞭解其他國家的狀態。從112年6月到現在，我不知道這個報告已經出來了沒有？因為它這裡面的報告基本上是一個沒有結果的報告，是不是可以請消保處說明？"],["鍾處長瑞蘭：委員好。跟委員報告，我們透過外交部大概蒐集了十一個國家的資料，我們的確是整理好了這些國家的資料，但是資料非常眾多，其實我們內部處裡面也開會了，大概……"],["鄭委員正鈐：所以你們已經完善了消費者保護機制了嗎？"],["鍾處長瑞蘭：還沒有。"],["鄭委員正鈐：還沒有嘛！"],["鍾處長瑞蘭：對。"],["鄭委員正鈐：因為這個東西要往下講很長，這個時間我先空下來，到時候請給本席一個完整的報告，然後也儘快提供給公平會。我在想消保處如果這麼久都還在處理資料蒐集的話，我也不知道公平會接下來怎麼去審foodpanda和Uber Eats這邊的狀態。"],["鍾處長瑞蘭：好，謝謝委員。"],["鄭委員正鈐：接下來我想針對這次的併購案當中，很清楚的是其實它會跟業者有關、跟外送員有關，同時也跟消費者有關，在這麼多的關聯當中，剛剛委員也都有提到相關的問題，可是我在這邊要特別提到，針對外送員的部分，之前雙北都已經提到了勞務契約，我在想之後公平會在審這個合併案的時候，請務必一定要確保外送員的勞動條件，所以我們希望在審查的過程當中，能夠把勞動部拉進來，然後能夠把整個外送員的勞務契約變成附帶條件重要的部分，主委，這個部分可不可以先承諾？"],["李主任委員鎂：我想我們在整個審查過程會跟相關機關，包括消保會、勞動部一起來徵詢他們的意見並交換意見。"],["鄭委員正鈐：除了這個部分之外，還有另外一個地方就是針對整個業者的部分，我們來看一下這個部分，在目前含廣告曝光的外送服務當中，基本上目前這兩家都在32%到38%之間，他們的訂單交易抽成都在百分之三十幾，坦白說已經很高了，我在想這個部分對於目前的物價肯定是有推波助瀾的效果，所以當他們合併之後，我覺得很容易造成獨占市場的情況，也很容易造成相關物價的持續推動，所以本席希望在這樣子的審議過程當中，也能夠把他們的抽成比例當作附帶條件之一。到時候在整個合併過程當中，能夠儘可能確保消費者最後的狀態，還有就是業者最後的成本考量，這部分可不可以先承諾一下？"],["李主任委員鎂：我想我們在審查過程中，對於併購方以後的交易相對人，包括餐廳、消費者以及外送員，將來彼此之間的談判能力都會通盤去考量。"],["鄭委員正鈐：我再提一個狀態，因為這兩家公司都是國外的公司，目前foodpanda在東南亞也已經被GRAB給買掉了。我想問一個情況，如果公平會不允許他們併購，可是到最後foodpanda它自己退出市場，當foodpanda自動退出市場的時候，也許他們在私底下跟Uber Eats有什麼樣的交易，它也不是公開發行公司，它直接退出市場，這個市場就拱手讓給了Uber Eats，在這種狀態之下，公平會有沒有其他的作法？"],["李主任委員鎂：我們要看將來整個市場的競爭狀況，才能夠依事實來判斷。"],["鄭委員正鈐：我最後要特別提到，因為我看到在相關法令第七條、第八條、第九條當中，感覺好像有一個限制，包括對於獨占的定義，對於獨占的行為以及不能夠做的，可是我發現它都很空，其實整個都是模糊的，所以針對公平會對於這兩家大的外送平台他們後續的發展能夠有怎麼樣的影響，其實本席是非常的擔心，可是也希望公平會還是能夠在不可為的情況之下，盡最大的努力去保障臺灣的消費者，還有外送員跟業者這三者權益的平衡，好不好？"],["李主任委員鎂：是的。"],["鄭委員正鈐：謝謝主委。"],["主席：謝謝鄭正鈐委員。","接下來請張嘉郡委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":202,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-13","speakers":["邱議瑩","楊瓊瓔","陳亭妃","鄭正鈐","張嘉郡","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra 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{\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 101.454, \"end\": 101.554, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 101.554, \"end\": 101.574, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 101.574, \"end\": 101.614, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 101.614, \"end\": 101.694, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 101.694, \"end\": 101.734, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"場\"}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"濟\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 101.734, \"end\": 101.774, \"score\": 0.458}, {\"word\": \"狀\"}, {\"word\": \"態\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 101.774, \"end\": 101.874, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 101.874, \"end\": 101.894, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 101.894, \"end\": 101.994, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 101.994, \"end\": 102.014, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}]}, {\"start\": 106.277, \"end\": 108.098, \"text\": \"二、審查．一）本院委員邱志偉等16人擬具\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 106.277, \"end\": 106.397, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 106.397, \"end\": 106.477, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"．\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 106.477, \"end\": 106.537, \"score\": 0.66}, {\"word\": \"）\"}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 106.537, \"end\": 107.798, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 107.798, \"end\": 107.878, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 107.878, \"end\": 107.898, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"邱\", \"start\": 107.898, \"end\": 107.918, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"志\", \"start\": 107.918, \"end\": 107.998, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"偉\"}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 107.998, \"end\": 108.018, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 108.018, \"end\": 108.078, \"score\": 0.663}, {\"word\": \"擬\"}, {\"word\": \"具\", \"start\": 108.078, \"end\": 108.098, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 124.585, \"end\": 124.966, \"text\": \"主委,知不知道?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 124.585, \"end\": 124.725, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 124.725, \"end\": 124.785, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 124.785, \"end\": 124.906, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 124.906, \"end\": 124.926, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 124.926, \"end\": 124.946, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 124.946, \"end\": 124.966, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"?\"}]}, {\"start\": 148.03, \"end\": 170.877, \"text\": \"OK這蕭寶處這邊的一個資料啦齁那我這邊想特別提到的一個狀態就是齁因為在跟外送平台有關的已經變成第二類齁在運輸類當中非常的多創十年的一個新高創十年的新高那在這麼多的一個那個消費糾紛當中的時候其實我發現我們蕭寶處行政院蕭寶處今天有來嘛齁\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"O\", \"start\": 148.03, \"end\": 148.371, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"K\", \"start\": 148.371, \"end\": 148.791, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"蕭\"}, {\"word\": \"寶\"}, {\"word\": 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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,321 --> 00:00:10,784\n謝謝主席。我想請一下國民會主委。來,請李主委。\n\n2\n00:00:17,708 --> 00:00:39,874\n委員長昨天我們特別針對外送平台併購是否涉及限制競爭之調查程序、認定原則及對消費者權益影響之配套措施這個議題很大、對消費者影響很大可是我發現這是我收過最少的一個報告就是兩頁一張都寫不滿第二頁都寫不滿\n\n3\n00:00:42,155 --> 00:01:10,777\n這個也表示這個問題確實非常的棘手我先請教一下主委那個富盼達是哪一國的公司?母公司?不知道?德國的公司嗎?所以UberEats母公司是美國的嗎?所以其實是兩家外資的公司那競爭的市場在台灣他讓我想到另外一個很類似的個案就是錢櫃跟好樂迪的案子\n\n4\n00:01:11,357 --> 00:01:14,721\n請問他們這兩家公司當時公平會的決議後來有沒有被follow?我們當時並沒有核准他們的結合。那他們現在的情況是怎麼樣?\n\n5\n00:01:33,227 --> 00:01:42,014\n兩邊在經營可是他們後面的股東結構其實幾乎是完全整合的一個情況那我想說這個部分因為他就是一個市場經濟的狀態那我們現在來看這個\n\n6\n00:01:46,277 --> 00:01:48,098\n二、審查．一）本院委員邱志偉等16人擬具\n\n7\n00:02:04,585 --> 00:02:04,966\n主委,知不知道?\n\n8\n00:02:28,030 --> 00:02:50,877\nOK這蕭寶處這邊的一個資料啦齁那我這邊想特別提到的一個狀態就是齁因為在跟外送平台有關的已經變成第二類齁在運輸類當中非常的多創十年的一個新高創十年的新高那在這麼多的一個那個消費糾紛當中的時候其實我發現我們蕭寶處行政院蕭寶處今天有來嘛齁\n\n9\n00:02:55,831 --> 00:03:14,441\n我們消保處對於這部分的時候其實也沒有辦法有一個很好的一個回應我們看到了整個消保處針對外送平台的一個回應報告當中的時候就直接寫到有關外送平台就是消保處在111年、112年多次召開\n\n10\n00:03:15,822 --> 00:03:39,872\n中央目的事業主管機關研商及協調會議那麼介於外送平台是以多面向、多元且營業形態法律關係都較為複雜然後點點點之後然後也請外交部去瞭解其他國家的狀態從112年6月到現在我不知道這個報告已經出來了沒有因為它這裡面的一個報告基本上是一個沒有結果的報告蕭保處\n\n11\n00:03:50,649 --> 00:03:51,870\n您們已經完善了消費者保護機制了嗎?還沒有\n\n12\n00:04:10,902 --> 00:04:11,002\n主席\n\n13\n00:04:40,902 --> 00:04:43,385\n二）本院委員邱志偉等16人擬具:「多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案案。）\n\n14\n00:05:00,402 --> 00:05:23,681\n之後公平會在審這個合併案的時候請務必一定要確保就是外送員的一個勞動條件所以我們希望說在審的過程當中的時候能夠把勞動部拉進來然後能夠把整個外送員他們的勞務契約變成附帶條件重要的部分主委這個部分可不可以先承諾\n\n15\n00:05:24,321 --> 00:05:37,975\n我想我們在整個審查的過程會跟相關機關包括消保會、勞動部一起來徵詢他們的意見、交換意見除了這個部分之外的時候還有另外一個地方就是針對整個\n\n16\n00:05:40,558 --> 00:05:53,914\n整個業者的一個部分我們來看一下部分目前整個含廣告曝光的外送服務當中的時候基本上目前這兩家都在32到38%之間\n\n17\n00:05:56,397 --> 00:05:58,399\n二（本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具〈多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案案〉案。\n\n18\n00:06:21,658 --> 00:06:23,699\n本院委員楊瓊瓔等26人擬具\n\n19\n00:06:36,988 --> 00:06:37,868\n二、審查（一（本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具\n\n20\n00:06:56,997 --> 00:07:15,558\n我想我們在審查過程中對於併購方以後的交易相對人包括餐廳、消費者以及外送員將來彼此之間的談判能力都會通盤去考量主委我再提一個狀態因為目前這兩家公司都是國外的公司\n\n21\n00:07:16,779 --> 00:07:30,235\n目前富盆塔在東南亞也已經被Grabber把它給買掉了。我想問一個情況,就是說如果公平會不允許他們併購,可是富盆塔到最後他自己退出市場,\n\n22\n00:07:31,476 --> 00:07:32,757\n一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．\n\n23\n00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:19,341\n就是相關法令我們的第七條第八條第九條當中的時候寫的感覺是很感覺好像有一個限制對於獨佔的定義然後對於獨佔的行為不能夠做的可是我發現其實它都很空而且整個其實是模糊的\n\n24\n00:08:20,121 --> 00:08:47,909\n所以我對於公平會對於這個兩家大的外送平台他們後續的發展能夠有怎麼樣的影響其實本席是非常的擔心可是也希望公平會還是能夠在不可為的情況之下盡最大的努力去保障台灣的消費者還有就是外送員跟業者這三者的一個權益的一個平衡好不好是的\n\n25\n00:08:50,583 --> 00:08:50,986\n謝謝鄭正鈴前委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9321\t10784\t謝謝主席。我想請一下國民會主委。來,請李主委。\n17708\t39874\t委員長昨天我們特別針對外送平台併購是否涉及限制競爭之調查程序、認定原則及對消費者權益影響之配套措施這個議題很大、對消費者影響很大可是我發現這是我收過最少的一個報告就是兩頁一張都寫不滿第二頁都寫不滿\n42155\t70777\t這個也表示這個問題確實非常的棘手我先請教一下主委那個富盼達是哪一國的公司?母公司?不知道?德國的公司嗎?所以Uber Eats母公司是美國的嗎?所以其實是兩家外資的公司那競爭的市場在台灣他讓我想到另外一個很類似的個案就是錢櫃跟好樂迪的案子\n71357\t74721\t請問他們這兩家公司當時公平會的決議後來有沒有被follow?我們當時並沒有核准他們的結合。那他們現在的情況是怎麼樣?\n93227\t102014\t兩邊在經營可是他們後面的股東結構其實幾乎是完全整合的一個情況那我想說這個部分因為他就是一個市場經濟的狀態那我們現在來看這個\n106277\t108098\t二、審查．一）本院委員邱志偉等16人擬具\n124585\t124966\t主委,知不知道?\n148030\t170877\tOK這蕭寶處這邊的一個資料啦齁那我這邊想特別提到的一個狀態就是齁因為在跟外送平台有關的已經變成第二類齁在運輸類當中非常的多創十年的一個新高創十年的新高那在這麼多的一個那個消費糾紛當中的時候其實我發現我們蕭寶處行政院蕭寶處今天有來嘛齁\n175831\t194441\t我們消保處對於這部分的時候其實也沒有辦法有一個很好的一個回應我們看到了整個消保處針對外送平台的一個回應報告當中的時候就直接寫到有關外送平台就是消保處在111年、112年多次召開\n195822\t219872\t中央目的事業主管機關研商及協調會議那麼介於外送平台是以多面向、多元且營業形態法律關係都較為複雜然後點點點之後然後也請外交部去瞭解其他國家的狀態從112年6月到現在我不知道這個報告已經出來了沒有因為它這裡面的一個報告基本上是一個沒有結果的報告蕭保處\n230649\t231870\t您們已經完善了消費者保護機制了嗎?還沒有\n250902\t251002\t主席\n280902\t283385\t二）本院委員邱志偉等16人擬具:「多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案案。）\n300402\t323681\t之後公平會在審這個合併案的時候請務必一定要確保就是外送員的一個勞動條件所以我們希望說在審的過程當中的時候能夠把勞動部拉進來然後能夠把整個外送員他們的勞務契約變成附帶條件重要的部分主委這個部分可不可以先承諾\n324321\t337975\t我想我們在整個審查的過程會跟相關機關包括消保會、勞動部一起來徵詢他們的意見、交換意見除了這個部分之外的時候還有另外一個地方就是針對整個\n340558\t353914\t整個業者的一個部分我們來看一下部分目前整個含廣告曝光的外送服務當中的時候基本上目前這兩家都在32到38%之間\n356397\t358399\t二（本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具〈多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案案〉案。\n381658\t383699\t本院委員楊瓊瓔等26人擬具\n396988\t397868\t二、審查（一（本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具\n416997\t435558\t我想我們在審查過程中對於併購方以後的交易相對人包括餐廳、消費者以及外送員將來彼此之間的談判能力都會通盤去考量主委我再提一個狀態因為目前這兩家公司都是國外的公司\n436779\t450235\t目前富盆塔在東南亞也已經被Grabber把它給買掉了。我想問一個情況,就是說如果公平會不允許他們併購,可是富盆塔到最後他自己退出市場,\n451476\t452757\t一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．\n481360\t499341\t就是相關法令我們的第七條第八條第九條當中的時候寫的感覺是很感覺好像有一個限制對於獨佔的定義然後對於獨佔的行為不能夠做的可是我發現其實它都很空而且整個其實是模糊的\n500121\t527909\t所以我對於公平會對於這個兩家大的外送平台他們後續的發展能夠有怎麼樣的影響其實本席是非常的擔心可是也希望公平會還是能夠在不可為的情況之下盡最大的努力去保障台灣的消費者還有就是外送員跟業者這三者的一個權益的一個平衡好不好是的\n530583\t530986\t謝謝鄭正鈴前委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席。我想請一下國民會主委。來,請李主委。\n委員長昨天我們特別針對外送平台併購是否涉及限制競爭之調查程序、認定原則及對消費者權益影響之配套措施這個議題很大、對消費者影響很大可是我發現這是我收過最少的一個報告就是兩頁一張都寫不滿第二頁都寫不滿\n這個也表示這個問題確實非常的棘手我先請教一下主委那個富盼達是哪一國的公司?母公司?不知道?德國的公司嗎?所以Uber Eats母公司是美國的嗎?所以其實是兩家外資的公司那競爭的市場在台灣他讓我想到另外一個很類似的個案就是錢櫃跟好樂迪的案子\n請問他們這兩家公司當時公平會的決議後來有沒有被follow?我們當時並沒有核准他們的結合。那他們現在的情況是怎麼樣?\n兩邊在經營可是他們後面的股東結構其實幾乎是完全整合的一個情況那我想說這個部分因為他就是一個市場經濟的狀態那我們現在來看這個\n二、審查．一）本院委員邱志偉等16人擬具\n主委,知不知道?\nOK這蕭寶處這邊的一個資料啦齁那我這邊想特別提到的一個狀態就是齁因為在跟外送平台有關的已經變成第二類齁在運輸類當中非常的多創十年的一個新高創十年的新高那在這麼多的一個那個消費糾紛當中的時候其實我發現我們蕭寶處行政院蕭寶處今天有來嘛齁\n我們消保處對於這部分的時候其實也沒有辦法有一個很好的一個回應我們看到了整個消保處針對外送平台的一個回應報告當中的時候就直接寫到有關外送平台就是消保處在111年、112年多次召開\n中央目的事業主管機關研商及協調會議那麼介於外送平台是以多面向、多元且營業形態法律關係都較為複雜然後點點點之後然後也請外交部去瞭解其他國家的狀態從112年6月到現在我不知道這個報告已經出來了沒有因為它這裡面的一個報告基本上是一個沒有結果的報告蕭保處\n您們已經完善了消費者保護機制了嗎?還沒有\n主席\n二）本院委員邱志偉等16人擬具:「多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案案。）\n之後公平會在審這個合併案的時候請務必一定要確保就是外送員的一個勞動條件所以我們希望說在審的過程當中的時候能夠把勞動部拉進來然後能夠把整個外送員他們的勞務契約變成附帶條件重要的部分主委這個部分可不可以先承諾\n我想我們在整個審查的過程會跟相關機關包括消保會、勞動部一起來徵詢他們的意見、交換意見除了這個部分之外的時候還有另外一個地方就是針對整個\n整個業者的一個部分我們來看一下部分目前整個含廣告曝光的外送服務當中的時候基本上目前這兩家都在32到38%之間\n二（本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具〈多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案案〉案。\n本院委員楊瓊瓔等26人擬具\n二、審查（一（本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具\n我想我們在審查過程中對於併購方以後的交易相對人包括餐廳、消費者以及外送員將來彼此之間的談判能力都會通盤去考量主委我再提一個狀態因為目前這兩家公司都是國外的公司\n目前富盆塔在東南亞也已經被Grabber把它給買掉了。我想問一個情況,就是說如果公平會不允許他們併購,可是富盆塔到最後他自己退出市場,\n一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．\n就是相關法令我們的第七條第八條第九條當中的時候寫的感覺是很感覺好像有一個限制對於獨佔的定義然後對於獨佔的行為不能夠做的可是我發現其實它都很空而且整個其實是模糊的\n所以我對於公平會對於這個兩家大的外送平台他們後續的發展能夠有怎麼樣的影響其實本席是非常的擔心可是也希望公平會還是能夠在不可為的情況之下盡最大的努力去保障台灣的消費者還有就是外送員跟業者這三者的一個權益的一個平衡好不好是的\n謝謝鄭正鈴前委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.321 --> 00:10.784\n謝謝主席。我想請一下國民會主委。來,請李主委。\n\n00:17.708 --> 00:39.874\n委員長昨天我們特別針對外送平台併購是否涉及限制競爭之調查程序、認定原則及對消費者權益影響之配套措施這個議題很大、對消費者影響很大可是我發現這是我收過最少的一個報告就是兩頁一張都寫不滿第二頁都寫不滿\n\n00:42.155 --> 01:10.777\n這個也表示這個問題確實非常的棘手我先請教一下主委那個富盼達是哪一國的公司?母公司?不知道?德國的公司嗎?所以UberEats母公司是美國的嗎?所以其實是兩家外資的公司那競爭的市場在台灣他讓我想到另外一個很類似的個案就是錢櫃跟好樂迪的案子\n\n01:11.357 --> 01:14.721\n請問他們這兩家公司當時公平會的決議後來有沒有被follow?我們當時並沒有核准他們的結合。那他們現在的情況是怎麼樣?\n\n01:33.227 --> 01:42.014\n兩邊在經營可是他們後面的股東結構其實幾乎是完全整合的一個情況那我想說這個部分因為他就是一個市場經濟的狀態那我們現在來看這個\n\n01:46.277 --> 01:48.098\n二、審查．一）本院委員邱志偉等16人擬具\n\n02:04.585 --> 02:04.966\n主委,知不知道?\n\n02:28.030 --> 02:50.877\nOK這蕭寶處這邊的一個資料啦齁那我這邊想特別提到的一個狀態就是齁因為在跟外送平台有關的已經變成第二類齁在運輸類當中非常的多創十年的一個新高創十年的新高那在這麼多的一個那個消費糾紛當中的時候其實我發現我們蕭寶處行政院蕭寶處今天有來嘛齁\n\n02:55.831 --> 03:14.441\n我們消保處對於這部分的時候其實也沒有辦法有一個很好的一個回應我們看到了整個消保處針對外送平台的一個回應報告當中的時候就直接寫到有關外送平台就是消保處在111年、112年多次召開\n\n03:15.822 --> 03:39.872\n中央目的事業主管機關研商及協調會議那麼介於外送平台是以多面向、多元且營業形態法律關係都較為複雜然後點點點之後然後也請外交部去瞭解其他國家的狀態從112年6月到現在我不知道這個報告已經出來了沒有因為它這裡面的一個報告基本上是一個沒有結果的報告蕭保處\n\n03:50.649 --> 03:51.870\n您們已經完善了消費者保護機制了嗎?還沒有\n\n04:10.902 --> 04:11.002\n主席\n\n04:40.902 --> 04:43.385\n二）本院委員邱志偉等16人擬具:「多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案案。）\n\n05:00.402 --> 05:23.681\n之後公平會在審這個合併案的時候請務必一定要確保就是外送員的一個勞動條件所以我們希望說在審的過程當中的時候能夠把勞動部拉進來然後能夠把整個外送員他們的勞務契約變成附帶條件重要的部分主委這個部分可不可以先承諾\n\n05:24.321 --> 05:37.975\n我想我們在整個審查的過程會跟相關機關包括消保會、勞動部一起來徵詢他們的意見、交換意見除了這個部分之外的時候還有另外一個地方就是針對整個\n\n05:40.558 --> 05:53.914\n整個業者的一個部分我們來看一下部分目前整個含廣告曝光的外送服務當中的時候基本上目前這兩家都在32到38%之間\n\n05:56.397 --> 05:58.399\n二（本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具〈多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案案〉案。\n\n06:21.658 --> 06:23.699\n本院委員楊瓊瓔等26人擬具\n\n06:36.988 --> 06:37.868\n二、審查（一（本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具\n\n06:56.997 --> 07:15.558\n我想我們在審查過程中對於併購方以後的交易相對人包括餐廳、消費者以及外送員將來彼此之間的談判能力都會通盤去考量主委我再提一個狀態因為目前這兩家公司都是國外的公司\n\n07:16.779 --> 07:30.235\n目前富盆塔在東南亞也已經被Grabber把它給買掉了。我想問一個情況,就是說如果公平會不允許他們併購,可是富盆塔到最後他自己退出市場,\n\n07:31.476 --> 07:32.757\n一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．\n\n08:01.360 --> 08:19.341\n就是相關法令我們的第七條第八條第九條當中的時候寫的感覺是很感覺好像有一個限制對於獨佔的定義然後對於獨佔的行為不能夠做的可是我發現其實它都很空而且整個其實是模糊的\n\n08:20.121 --> 08:47.909\n所以我對於公平會對於這個兩家大的外送平台他們後續的發展能夠有怎麼樣的影響其實本席是非常的擔心可是也希望公平會還是能夠在不可為的情況之下盡最大的努力去保障台灣的消費者還有就是外送員跟業者這三者的一個權益的一個平衡好不好是的\n\n08:50.583 --> 08:50.986\n謝謝鄭正鈴前委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.321,"end":10.784,"text":"謝謝主席。我想請一下國民會主委。來,請李主委。"},{"start":17.708,"end":39.874,"text":"委員長昨天我們特別針對外送平台併購是否涉及限制競爭之調查程序、認定原則及對消費者權益影響之配套措施這個議題很大、對消費者影響很大可是我發現這是我收過最少的一個報告就是兩頁一張都寫不滿第二頁都寫不滿"},{"start":42.155,"end":70.777,"text":"這個也表示這個問題確實非常的棘手我先請教一下主委那個富盼達是哪一國的公司?母公司?不知道?德國的公司嗎?所以Uber Eats母公司是美國的嗎?所以其實是兩家外資的公司那競爭的市場在台灣他讓我想到另外一個很類似的個案就是錢櫃跟好樂迪的案子"},{"start":71.357,"end":74.721,"text":"請問他們這兩家公司當時公平會的決議後來有沒有被follow?我們當時並沒有核准他們的結合。那他們現在的情況是怎麼樣?"},{"start":93.227,"end":102.014,"text":"兩邊在經營可是他們後面的股東結構其實幾乎是完全整合的一個情況那我想說這個部分因為他就是一個市場經濟的狀態那我們現在來看這個"},{"start":106.277,"end":108.098,"text":"二、審查．一）本院委員邱志偉等16人擬具"},{"start":124.585,"end":124.966,"text":"主委,知不知道?"},{"start":148.03,"end":170.877,"text":"OK這蕭寶處這邊的一個資料啦齁那我這邊想特別提到的一個狀態就是齁因為在跟外送平台有關的已經變成第二類齁在運輸類當中非常的多創十年的一個新高創十年的新高那在這麼多的一個那個消費糾紛當中的時候其實我發現我們蕭寶處行政院蕭寶處今天有來嘛齁"},{"start":175.831,"end":194.441,"text":"我們消保處對於這部分的時候其實也沒有辦法有一個很好的一個回應我們看到了整個消保處針對外送平台的一個回應報告當中的時候就直接寫到有關外送平台就是消保處在111年、112年多次召開"},{"start":195.822,"end":219.872,"text":"中央目的事業主管機關研商及協調會議那麼介於外送平台是以多面向、多元且營業形態法律關係都較為複雜然後點點點之後然後也請外交部去瞭解其他國家的狀態從112年6月到現在我不知道這個報告已經出來了沒有因為它這裡面的一個報告基本上是一個沒有結果的報告蕭保處"},{"start":230.649,"end":231.87,"text":"您們已經完善了消費者保護機制了嗎?還沒有"},{"start":250.902,"end":251.002,"text":"主席"},{"start":280.902,"end":283.385,"text":"二）本院委員邱志偉等16人擬具:「多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案案。）"},{"start":300.402,"end":323.681,"text":"之後公平會在審這個合併案的時候請務必一定要確保就是外送員的一個勞動條件所以我們希望說在審的過程當中的時候能夠把勞動部拉進來然後能夠把整個外送員他們的勞務契約變成附帶條件重要的部分主委這個部分可不可以先承諾"},{"start":324.321,"end":337.975,"text":"我想我們在整個審查的過程會跟相關機關包括消保會、勞動部一起來徵詢他們的意見、交換意見除了這個部分之外的時候還有另外一個地方就是針對整個"},{"start":340.558,"end":353.914,"text":"整個業者的一個部分我們來看一下部分目前整個含廣告曝光的外送服務當中的時候基本上目前這兩家都在32到38%之間"},{"start":356.397,"end":358.399,"text":"二（本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具〈多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案案〉案。"},{"start":381.658,"end":383.699,"text":"本院委員楊瓊瓔等26人擬具"},{"start":396.988,"end":397.868,"text":"二、審查（一（本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具"},{"start":416.997,"end":435.558,"text":"我想我們在審查過程中對於併購方以後的交易相對人包括餐廳、消費者以及外送員將來彼此之間的談判能力都會通盤去考量主委我再提一個狀態因為目前這兩家公司都是國外的公司"},{"start":436.779,"end":450.235,"text":"目前富盆塔在東南亞也已經被Grabber把它給買掉了。我想問一個情況,就是說如果公平會不允許他們併購,可是富盆塔到最後他自己退出市場,"},{"start":451.476,"end":452.757,"text":"一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．"},{"start":481.36,"end":499.341,"text":"就是相關法令我們的第七條第八條第九條當中的時候寫的感覺是很感覺好像有一個限制對於獨佔的定義然後對於獨佔的行為不能夠做的可是我發現其實它都很空而且整個其實是模糊的"},{"start":500.121,"end":527.909,"text":"所以我對於公平會對於這個兩家大的外送平台他們後續的發展能夠有怎麼樣的影響其實本席是非常的擔心可是也希望公平會還是能夠在不可為的情況之下盡最大的努力去保障台灣的消費者還有就是外送員跟業者這三者的一個權益的一個平衡好不好是的"},{"start":530.583,"end":530.986,"text":"謝謝鄭正鈴前委員"}]}}}}