{"id":152871,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152871","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d339c8d1909fa453305b13e14f3d1e89f1f99622ceb699a780469f81d0044283e3b48d9307feac045ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張嘉郡","委員發言時間":"09:38:49 - 09:47:14","影片長度":"00:08:25","會議時間":"2024-05-23T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請公平交易委員會主任委員就「外送平台併購是否涉及限制競爭之調查程序、認定原則及對消費者權益影響之配套措施」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查：\n（一）本院委員邱志偉等16人擬具「多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具「多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案」案。）","date":"2024-05-23","duration":505,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-13"},"end_time":"2024-05-23T09:47:14+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-23T09:38:49+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":235,"blocks":[["張委員嘉郡：（9時38分）主席，我想請李主委。"],["主席：請李主委。"],["張委員嘉郡：李主委，首先我想問你有使用過foodpanda或是Uber Eats嗎？"],["李主任委員鎂：foodpanda有用過。"],["張委員嘉郡：你覺得好用嗎？方便嗎？"],["李主任委員鎂：還OK。"],["張委員嘉郡：還不錯吧！根據資策會MIC調查報告，全臺未使用過外送平台的比例是21%，換句話說，全臺有79% 的人使用過外送平台，這個數字代表什麼意思呢？就是代表Uber Eats、foodpanda的合併案是會影響全臺上千萬人的案件，其中包括上千萬人的消費市場，十五萬人左右的勞動市場，以及全臺超過六成的餐飲業者都會受到影響。針對這個合併案，你們的裁決就是攸關上千萬人權益的裁決，請問主委，你會不會覺得有壓力呢？"],["李主任委員鎂：這個案子會明顯的改變市場結構，我們在評估這個案件的時候會審慎評估。"],["張委員嘉郡：本席要問公平會自創會至今，有禁止過哪些案件結合？"],["李主任委員鎂：譬如說我們禁止過統一跟維力的結合，還有錢櫃、好樂迪，還有一些有線電視系統的結合。"],["張委員嘉郡：之前為什麼會禁止這些事業的結合呢？"],["李主任委員鎂：我想當時禁止結合的理由應該有它根據法令的規定做出的判斷。"],["張委員嘉郡：對於這次跟之前這幾個合併案，本席認為其關鍵在於市占率的界定，這也是過去公平會禁止結合的主要原因，主委認同嗎？"],["李主任委員鎂：我們在審查的時候先界定市場，所以當時這些案子的審查應該是根據當時的內容……"],["張委員嘉郡：重點就是界定市場，但是公平會在這個月14號表示兩大外送平台合併會有八成的市占率，本席想請教這八成是如何推估而來？"],["李主任委員鎂：八成是我們在之前有一個前案當時所做的分析。"],["張委員嘉郡：如果公平會沒有實質調查就對外宣布其市占率有八成，我覺得這就是公平會做錯的第一步，你們可能根本錯估了市占率，這樣的錯誤會影響到你們後續審查的依據。據本席推估，公平會應該也是依據現在市面上唯一較有公信力的資策會MIC的調查報告，但是請注意，這份民調並非調查市占率，而是調查消費者使用率，而且它的選項是複選，並且摻雜熟食跟生食市場。因此，如果單看議價能力最弱的熟食市場，foodpanda跟Uber Eats其市占率絕對不只八成，甚至有可能超過九成以上，所以本席的第一個建議就是請公平會要注意，日後調查必須區分熟食市場跟生鮮市場，甚至南北各區的市占率也必須納入考量，請問主委認同嗎？"],["李主任委員鎂：跟委員說明一下，您提到的八成是當時我們在109年的時候有一個個案所做的……"],["張委員嘉郡：那也是4年前了……"],["李主任委員鎂：所以現在在審核的結合案……"],["張委員嘉郡：你覺得4年前，在疫情之前……"],["李主任委員鎂：我們會重新做調查。"],["張委員嘉郡：在疫情之前的市占率就有八成，那疫情之後可不得了了，所以4年前的數據你拿出來用就是第一個錯誤，本席在這裡要求公平會的裁決必須保障餐飲業者、勞工及消費者，根據公交法規定，兩大平台結合之後絕對是獨占事業，但我們都知道，獨占本身並非構成禁止結合的要件，對吧？"],["李主任委員鎂：獨占本身是一個事實，我們再進一步判斷該獨占事業有什麼樣的行為、是不是違反公平交易法的規定。"],["張委員嘉郡：我們都知道說Uber Eats跟foodpanda彼此就是最大的競爭者，目前假設它們結合的話，餐飲業者會擔心被漲價，外送員會擔心被砍薪，而且結合之後，消費者是毫無議價能力，那這兩大平台的結合將會造成臺灣餐飲業上下游的浩劫。以前有一個廣告臺詞是「一家烤肉萬家香」，現在這兩大平台的結合，可能會變成「一家烤肉萬家哭」，因此本席認為公平會的裁決必須審慎考慮幾個面向，第一，要保障餐飲業者不會因為結合而必須付出更高的經營成本，兩個外送平台現在的抽成大概是多少，你知道嗎？"],["李主任委員鎂：30%到40%不等。"],["張委員嘉郡：沒錯，差不多32%到38%之間，一般的餐飲業者扣除食材成本、人事成本、店租等等，中間店家的獲利大概是25%，但是被外送平台抽了32%至38%之後，店家幾乎是毫無利潤，其實餐飲業者也都是經營得非常辛苦，尤其現在又漲電價，不得已的話，他也只好漲價，吃虧的終歸是消費者。所以第二，本席也希望要要求保障這15萬名外送員的勞工所得，過去外送員假設foodpanda的薪資比較差，他就去Uber Eats；Uber Eats薪資比較差，他就去foodpanda，可以轉換到另外一家，但是合併之後，他就失去了選擇，如何保障外送員的權益，這也是公平會需要考量的，主委同意嗎？"],["李主任委員鎂：是，我同意，就是說將來併購方的交易相對人，您提到的外送員、餐廳或是消費者他們的議價能力，這些我們都會考量在裡面。"],["張委員嘉郡：好，這一點要拜託主委一定要審慎地來協助這些餐飲業者，還有外送員的權益。","那保障消費者的權益，包括現在兩大平台是處於競爭關係，但是消費者有選擇權，如果合併之後，消費者幾乎沒有選擇權，這一點如何保障消費者權益，可能也要請公平會好好想一想。","我對未來的建議，應該要明定外送平台的抽成上限，目前國際上有很多先例，包括紐約、舊金山、芝加哥等城市，都已經限定每筆上限15%，並將之法制化，臺灣是不是也可以思考將之法制化呢？主委，你認同嗎？"],["李主任委員鎂：我想是不是專案立法這個要很多面向去考量。"],["張委員嘉郡：我不是問你個人，我是問你公平會的立場，你覺得這樣適合嗎？好，或許這不是公平會的主管業務，但藉這個機會也呼籲相關單位應該著手去研究國際案例，並思考未來如何更有效地保障消費者。我們期許公平會的裁決會達到多贏的結果，就是店家有生意、消費者權益有保護、外送員薪水有保障，平台能夠維持營運，本案的審議進度請公平會須定時公告，並以書面回復本席，謝謝。"],["李主任委員鎂：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝張嘉郡委員。","接下來請張啓楷委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":202,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-13","speakers":["邱議瑩","楊瓊瓔","陳亭妃","鄭正鈐","張嘉郡","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra 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{\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}]}, {\"start\": 231.904, \"end\": 233.845, \"text\": \"公平會本席在這裡要求公平會的裁決必須保障餐飲\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 231.904, \"end\": 232.064, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 232.064, \"end\": 232.084, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 232.084, \"end\": 232.204, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 232.204, \"end\": 232.224, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 232.224, \"end\": 232.344, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 232.344, \"end\": 232.384, \"score\": 0.378}, {\"word\": \"求\", \"start\": 232.384, \"end\": 232.645, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 232.645, \"end\": 232.905, \"score\": 0.753}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 232.905, \"end\": 233.045, \"score\": 0.764}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 233.045, \"end\": 233.205, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"裁\", \"start\": 233.205, \"end\": 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{\"word\": \"持\", \"start\": 493.043, \"end\": 493.063, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"營\"}, {\"word\": \"運\"}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 495.827, \"end\": 496.027, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 496.027, \"end\": 496.227, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 496.227, \"end\": 497.109, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 497.109, \"end\": 497.591, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 497.591, \"end\": 497.771, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 497.771, \"end\": 498.412, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"須\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 498.412, \"end\": 499.154, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 499.154, \"end\": 499.375, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 499.375, \"end\": 500.056, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"並\"}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 500.056, \"end\": 500.437, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"書\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 500.437, \"end\": 500.778, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 500.778, \"end\": 500.938, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"覆\", \"start\": 500.938, \"end\": 501.078, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 501.078, \"end\": 501.239, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 501.239, \"end\": 501.259, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,229 --> 00:00:25,980\n請張嘉郡委員發言主席我想請李主委來請李主委李主委首先我想問你有使用過Foodpanda或是UberEats嗎Foodpanda有用過有用過你覺得好用嗎方便嗎\n\n2\n00:00:29,047 --> 00:00:55,848\n還OK還不錯吧還不錯吧那根據資策委MIC調查報告全臺未使用過外送平台的比例是21%換句話說全臺有79%的人使用過外送平台那這個數字代表什麼意思呢就代表UberEat、FullPanda的這個合併案呢是會影響全臺上千萬人的案件其中包括上千萬的\n\n3\n00:00:57,069 --> 00:01:17,606\n上千萬人的消費市場15萬人左右的勞動市場以及全台超過六成的餐飲業者都會受到影響那這個和平和平案請問你們的裁決就是攸關上千萬人權益的裁決請問主委你會不會覺得有壓力的\n\n4\n00:01:19,815 --> 00:01:47,065\n這個案子會明顯的改變市場結構我們在審慎在評估這個案件的時候會審慎評估那本席要問公平會自創會至今有禁止過哪些案件結合我們禁止過譬如說統一要跟唯利結合還有錢貴好樂迪還有一些有限電視系統的結合那之前為什麼會禁止這些事業結合呢\n\n5\n00:01:48,168 --> 00:02:11,836\n我想當時的這個禁止結合的理由應該有他根據法令的規定做出的一個判斷就是說對於這一次跟之前的這幾個這個和平案本席認為其關鍵是在於市佔率的界定這也是過去公平會禁止結合的主要原因主委認同嗎?\n\n6\n00:02:14,972 --> 00:02:35,912\n我們在這個審查的時候先界定市場,所以當時這些案子的這個審查應該是根據當時的內容。重點就是界定市場,但是公平會在這個月的14號的時候表示兩大外送平台合併會有八成的市佔率,本席想請教這八成是如何推估而來?\n\n7\n00:02:37,021 --> 00:02:37,181\n張嘉郡\n\n8\n00:02:54,110 --> 00:03:02,877\n二）本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具:「多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案案。）並備質詢．一）本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具:「多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案案。）並備質詢．一）本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具:「多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案案。）並備質詢．一）本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具:「多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案案。\n\n9\n00:03:23,772 --> 00:03:24,052\n主委認同嗎?\n\n10\n00:03:51,904 --> 00:03:53,845\n公平會本席在這裡要求公平會的裁決必須保障餐飲\n\n11\n00:04:20,239 --> 00:04:24,443\n但我們都知道獨佔本身並非構成禁止結合的要件對吧?\n\n12\n00:04:38,526 --> 00:04:53,754\n獨佔本身是一個事實那我們再進一步判說獨佔事業有什麼樣的行為是不是違反公平交易法的一個規定我們都知道說UberEats跟FullPanda彼此就是最大的競爭者那目前呢假設他們結合的話餐飲業者會擔心被漲價外送員會擔心被砍薪而且結合之後消費者是毫無溢價能力那這兩大平台的結合將會造成\n\n13\n00:05:07,782 --> 00:05:36,988\n台灣餐飲業上下游的浩劫以前有一個這個廣告台詞是一家烤肉萬家香現在這兩大平台的結合可能會變成一家烤肉萬家哭因此本席認為公平會的裁決必須審慎考慮幾個面向第一就是要保障餐飲業者不會因為結合而必須付出更高的經營成本那兩個外送平台現在的抽成大概是多少你知道嗎\n\n14\n00:05:38,292 --> 00:06:07,515\n三十到四十不等了。沒錯。差不多三十二到三十八趴之間。那一般的餐飲業者扣除掉食材成本、人事成本、電租等等。中間店家的貨率大概是二十五趴。但是被外送平台抽了三十二至三十八趴之後,店家幾乎是毫無利潤。那其實我們餐飲業者也都是經營得非常辛苦,尤其現在又這個漲店價。不得已的話,他也只好漲價。\n\n15\n00:06:07,995 --> 00:06:10,938\n二）本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具:「多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案案。）\n\n16\n00:06:23,012 --> 00:06:23,352\n二）本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具\n\n17\n00:06:38,869 --> 00:06:50,199\n我同意就是說將來併購方的交易相對人您提到的外送員餐廳或是消費者他們的這個溢價能力這些我們都會考量在裡面好這一點要拜託主委一定要審慎的來協助這些採引業者還有這個\n\n18\n00:06:55,643 --> 00:06:56,203\n二、審查．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n\n19\n00:07:23,377 --> 00:07:43,942\n舊金山、芝加哥等城市都已經限定每筆上限15%,並將之法制化。台灣是不是也可以思考將之法制化的?主委你認同嗎?我想是不是專案立法這個要很多面向去考量。我問你個人,我問你公平會的立場。你覺得這樣適合嗎?\n\n20\n00:07:48,724 --> 00:08:13,063\n或許這不是公平會的主管業務但藉這個機會也呼籲相關單位應該著手去研究國際案例並思考未來如何更有效的保障消費者我們期許公平會的裁決會達到多贏的結果就是店家有生意消費者的權益有保護外送員的薪水有保障那平台能夠維持營運\n\n21\n00:08:15,827 --> 00:08:21,259\n本案的審議進度請公平會須定時公告並以書面回覆本席。謝謝。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n229\t25980\t請張嘉郡委員發言主席我想請李主委來請李主委李主委首先我想問你有使用過Foodpanda或是UberEats嗎Foodpanda有用過有用過你覺得好用嗎方便嗎\n29047\t55848\t還OK還不錯吧還不錯吧那根據資策委MIC調查報告全臺未使用過外送平台的比例是21%換句話說全臺有79%的人使用過外送平台那這個數字代表什麼意思呢就代表UberEat、Full Panda的這個合併案呢是會影響全臺上千萬人的案件其中包括上千萬的\n57069\t77606\t上千萬人的消費市場15萬人左右的勞動市場以及全台超過六成的餐飲業者都會受到影響那這個和平和平案請問你們的裁決就是攸關上千萬人權益的裁決請問主委你會不會覺得有壓力的\n79815\t107065\t這個案子會明顯的改變市場結構我們在審慎在評估這個案件的時候會審慎評估那本席要問公平會自創會至今有禁止過哪些案件結合我們禁止過譬如說統一要跟唯利結合還有錢貴好樂迪還有一些有限電視系統的結合那之前為什麼會禁止這些事業結合呢\n108168\t131836\t我想當時的這個禁止結合的理由應該有他根據法令的規定做出的一個判斷就是說對於這一次跟之前的這幾個這個和平案本席認為其關鍵是在於市佔率的界定這也是過去公平會禁止結合的主要原因主委認同嗎?\n134972\t155912\t我們在這個審查的時候先界定市場,所以當時這些案子的這個審查應該是根據當時的內容。重點就是界定市場,但是公平會在這個月的14號的時候表示兩大外送平台合併會有八成的市佔率,本席想請教這八成是如何推估而來?\n157021\t157181\t張嘉郡\n174110\t182877\t二）本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具:「多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案案。）並備質詢．一）本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具:「多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案案。）並備質詢．一）本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具:「多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案案。）並備質詢．一）本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具:「多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案案。\n203772\t204052\t主委認同嗎?\n231904\t233845\t公平會本席在這裡要求公平會的裁決必須保障餐飲\n260239\t264443\t但我們都知道獨佔本身並非構成禁止結合的要件對吧?\n278526\t293754\t獨佔本身是一個事實那我們再進一步判說獨佔事業有什麼樣的行為是不是違反公平交易法的一個規定我們都知道說Uber Eats跟Full Panda彼此就是最大的競爭者那目前呢假設他們結合的話餐飲業者會擔心被漲價外送員會擔心被砍薪而且結合之後消費者是毫無溢價能力那這兩大平台的結合將會造成\n307782\t336988\t台灣餐飲業上下游的浩劫以前有一個這個廣告台詞是一家烤肉萬家香現在這兩大平台的結合可能會變成一家烤肉萬家哭因此本席認為公平會的裁決必須審慎考慮幾個面向第一就是要保障餐飲業者不會因為結合而必須付出更高的經營成本那兩個外送平台現在的抽成大概是多少你知道嗎\n338292\t367515\t三十到四十不等了。沒錯。差不多三十二到三十八趴之間。那一般的餐飲業者扣除掉食材成本、人事成本、電租等等。中間店家的貨率大概是二十五趴。但是被外送平台抽了三十二至三十八趴之後,店家幾乎是毫無利潤。那其實我們餐飲業者也都是經營得非常辛苦,尤其現在又這個漲店價。不得已的話,他也只好漲價。\n367995\t370938\t二）本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具:「多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案案。）\n383012\t383352\t二）本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具\n398869\t410199\t我同意就是說將來併購方的交易相對人您提到的外送員餐廳或是消費者他們的這個溢價能力這些我們都會考量在裡面好這一點要拜託主委一定要審慎的來協助這些採引業者還有這個\n415643\t416203\t二、審查．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n443377\t463942\t舊金山、芝加哥等城市都已經限定每筆上限15%,並將之法制化。台灣是不是也可以思考將之法制化的?主委你認同嗎?我想是不是專案立法這個要很多面向去考量。我問你個人,我問你公平會的立場。你覺得這樣適合嗎?\n468724\t493063\t或許這不是公平會的主管業務但藉這個機會也呼籲相關單位應該著手去研究國際案例並思考未來如何更有效的保障消費者我們期許公平會的裁決會達到多贏的結果就是店家有生意消費者的權益有保護外送員的薪水有保障那平台能夠維持營運\n495827\t501259\t本案的審議進度請公平會須定時公告並以書面回覆本席。謝謝。\n","txt":"請張嘉郡委員發言主席我想請李主委來請李主委李主委首先我想問你有使用過Foodpanda或是UberEats嗎Foodpanda有用過有用過你覺得好用嗎方便嗎\n還OK還不錯吧還不錯吧那根據資策委MIC調查報告全臺未使用過外送平台的比例是21%換句話說全臺有79%的人使用過外送平台那這個數字代表什麼意思呢就代表UberEat、Full Panda的這個合併案呢是會影響全臺上千萬人的案件其中包括上千萬的\n上千萬人的消費市場15萬人左右的勞動市場以及全台超過六成的餐飲業者都會受到影響那這個和平和平案請問你們的裁決就是攸關上千萬人權益的裁決請問主委你會不會覺得有壓力的\n這個案子會明顯的改變市場結構我們在審慎在評估這個案件的時候會審慎評估那本席要問公平會自創會至今有禁止過哪些案件結合我們禁止過譬如說統一要跟唯利結合還有錢貴好樂迪還有一些有限電視系統的結合那之前為什麼會禁止這些事業結合呢\n我想當時的這個禁止結合的理由應該有他根據法令的規定做出的一個判斷就是說對於這一次跟之前的這幾個這個和平案本席認為其關鍵是在於市佔率的界定這也是過去公平會禁止結合的主要原因主委認同嗎?\n我們在這個審查的時候先界定市場,所以當時這些案子的這個審查應該是根據當時的內容。重點就是界定市場,但是公平會在這個月的14號的時候表示兩大外送平台合併會有八成的市佔率,本席想請教這八成是如何推估而來?\n張嘉郡\n二）本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具:「多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案案。）並備質詢．一）本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具:「多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案案。）並備質詢．一）本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具:「多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案案。）並備質詢．一）本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具:「多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案案。\n主委認同嗎?\n公平會本席在這裡要求公平會的裁決必須保障餐飲\n但我們都知道獨佔本身並非構成禁止結合的要件對吧?\n獨佔本身是一個事實那我們再進一步判說獨佔事業有什麼樣的行為是不是違反公平交易法的一個規定我們都知道說Uber Eats跟Full Panda彼此就是最大的競爭者那目前呢假設他們結合的話餐飲業者會擔心被漲價外送員會擔心被砍薪而且結合之後消費者是毫無溢價能力那這兩大平台的結合將會造成\n台灣餐飲業上下游的浩劫以前有一個這個廣告台詞是一家烤肉萬家香現在這兩大平台的結合可能會變成一家烤肉萬家哭因此本席認為公平會的裁決必須審慎考慮幾個面向第一就是要保障餐飲業者不會因為結合而必須付出更高的經營成本那兩個外送平台現在的抽成大概是多少你知道嗎\n三十到四十不等了。沒錯。差不多三十二到三十八趴之間。那一般的餐飲業者扣除掉食材成本、人事成本、電租等等。中間店家的貨率大概是二十五趴。但是被外送平台抽了三十二至三十八趴之後,店家幾乎是毫無利潤。那其實我們餐飲業者也都是經營得非常辛苦,尤其現在又這個漲店價。不得已的話,他也只好漲價。\n二）本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具:「多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案案。）\n二）本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具\n我同意就是說將來併購方的交易相對人您提到的外送員餐廳或是消費者他們的這個溢價能力這些我們都會考量在裡面好這一點要拜託主委一定要審慎的來協助這些採引業者還有這個\n二、審查．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n舊金山、芝加哥等城市都已經限定每筆上限15%,並將之法制化。台灣是不是也可以思考將之法制化的?主委你認同嗎?我想是不是專案立法這個要很多面向去考量。我問你個人,我問你公平會的立場。你覺得這樣適合嗎?\n或許這不是公平會的主管業務但藉這個機會也呼籲相關單位應該著手去研究國際案例並思考未來如何更有效的保障消費者我們期許公平會的裁決會達到多贏的結果就是店家有生意消費者的權益有保護外送員的薪水有保障那平台能夠維持營運\n本案的審議進度請公平會須定時公告並以書面回覆本席。謝謝。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.229 --> 00:25.980\n請張嘉郡委員發言主席我想請李主委來請李主委李主委首先我想問你有使用過Foodpanda或是UberEats嗎Foodpanda有用過有用過你覺得好用嗎方便嗎\n\n00:29.047 --> 00:55.848\n還OK還不錯吧還不錯吧那根據資策委MIC調查報告全臺未使用過外送平台的比例是21%換句話說全臺有79%的人使用過外送平台那這個數字代表什麼意思呢就代表UberEat、FullPanda的這個合併案呢是會影響全臺上千萬人的案件其中包括上千萬的\n\n00:57.069 --> 01:17.606\n上千萬人的消費市場15萬人左右的勞動市場以及全台超過六成的餐飲業者都會受到影響那這個和平和平案請問你們的裁決就是攸關上千萬人權益的裁決請問主委你會不會覺得有壓力的\n\n01:19.815 --> 01:47.065\n這個案子會明顯的改變市場結構我們在審慎在評估這個案件的時候會審慎評估那本席要問公平會自創會至今有禁止過哪些案件結合我們禁止過譬如說統一要跟唯利結合還有錢貴好樂迪還有一些有限電視系統的結合那之前為什麼會禁止這些事業結合呢\n\n01:48.168 --> 02:11.836\n我想當時的這個禁止結合的理由應該有他根據法令的規定做出的一個判斷就是說對於這一次跟之前的這幾個這個和平案本席認為其關鍵是在於市佔率的界定這也是過去公平會禁止結合的主要原因主委認同嗎?\n\n02:14.972 --> 02:35.912\n我們在這個審查的時候先界定市場,所以當時這些案子的這個審查應該是根據當時的內容。重點就是界定市場,但是公平會在這個月的14號的時候表示兩大外送平台合併會有八成的市佔率,本席想請教這八成是如何推估而來?\n\n02:37.021 --> 02:37.181\n張嘉郡\n\n02:54.110 --> 03:02.877\n二）本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具:「多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案案。）並備質詢．一）本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具:「多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案案。）並備質詢．一）本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具:「多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案案。）並備質詢．一）本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具:「多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案案。\n\n03:23.772 --> 03:24.052\n主委認同嗎?\n\n03:51.904 --> 03:53.845\n公平會本席在這裡要求公平會的裁決必須保障餐飲\n\n04:20.239 --> 04:24.443\n但我們都知道獨佔本身並非構成禁止結合的要件對吧?\n\n04:38.526 --> 04:53.754\n獨佔本身是一個事實那我們再進一步判說獨佔事業有什麼樣的行為是不是違反公平交易法的一個規定我們都知道說UberEats跟FullPanda彼此就是最大的競爭者那目前呢假設他們結合的話餐飲業者會擔心被漲價外送員會擔心被砍薪而且結合之後消費者是毫無溢價能力那這兩大平台的結合將會造成\n\n05:07.782 --> 05:36.988\n台灣餐飲業上下游的浩劫以前有一個這個廣告台詞是一家烤肉萬家香現在這兩大平台的結合可能會變成一家烤肉萬家哭因此本席認為公平會的裁決必須審慎考慮幾個面向第一就是要保障餐飲業者不會因為結合而必須付出更高的經營成本那兩個外送平台現在的抽成大概是多少你知道嗎\n\n05:38.292 --> 06:07.515\n三十到四十不等了。沒錯。差不多三十二到三十八趴之間。那一般的餐飲業者扣除掉食材成本、人事成本、電租等等。中間店家的貨率大概是二十五趴。但是被外送平台抽了三十二至三十八趴之後,店家幾乎是毫無利潤。那其實我們餐飲業者也都是經營得非常辛苦,尤其現在又這個漲店價。不得已的話,他也只好漲價。\n\n06:07.995 --> 06:10.938\n二）本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具:「多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案案。）\n\n06:23.012 --> 06:23.352\n二）本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具\n\n06:38.869 --> 06:50.199\n我同意就是說將來併購方的交易相對人您提到的外送員餐廳或是消費者他們的這個溢價能力這些我們都會考量在裡面好這一點要拜託主委一定要審慎的來協助這些採引業者還有這個\n\n06:55.643 --> 06:56.203\n二、審查．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n\n07:23.377 --> 07:43.942\n舊金山、芝加哥等城市都已經限定每筆上限15%,並將之法制化。台灣是不是也可以思考將之法制化的?主委你認同嗎?我想是不是專案立法這個要很多面向去考量。我問你個人,我問你公平會的立場。你覺得這樣適合嗎?\n\n07:48.724 --> 08:13.063\n或許這不是公平會的主管業務但藉這個機會也呼籲相關單位應該著手去研究國際案例並思考未來如何更有效的保障消費者我們期許公平會的裁決會達到多贏的結果就是店家有生意消費者的權益有保護外送員的薪水有保障那平台能夠維持營運\n\n08:15.827 --> 08:21.259\n本案的審議進度請公平會須定時公告並以書面回覆本席。謝謝。\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.229,"end":25.98,"text":"請張嘉郡委員發言主席我想請李主委來請李主委李主委首先我想問你有使用過Foodpanda或是UberEats嗎Foodpanda有用過有用過你覺得好用嗎方便嗎"},{"start":29.047,"end":55.848,"text":"還OK還不錯吧還不錯吧那根據資策委MIC調查報告全臺未使用過外送平台的比例是21%換句話說全臺有79%的人使用過外送平台那這個數字代表什麼意思呢就代表UberEat、Full Panda的這個合併案呢是會影響全臺上千萬人的案件其中包括上千萬的"},{"start":57.069,"end":77.606,"text":"上千萬人的消費市場15萬人左右的勞動市場以及全台超過六成的餐飲業者都會受到影響那這個和平和平案請問你們的裁決就是攸關上千萬人權益的裁決請問主委你會不會覺得有壓力的"},{"start":79.815,"end":107.065,"text":"這個案子會明顯的改變市場結構我們在審慎在評估這個案件的時候會審慎評估那本席要問公平會自創會至今有禁止過哪些案件結合我們禁止過譬如說統一要跟唯利結合還有錢貴好樂迪還有一些有限電視系統的結合那之前為什麼會禁止這些事業結合呢"},{"start":108.168,"end":131.836,"text":"我想當時的這個禁止結合的理由應該有他根據法令的規定做出的一個判斷就是說對於這一次跟之前的這幾個這個和平案本席認為其關鍵是在於市佔率的界定這也是過去公平會禁止結合的主要原因主委認同嗎?"},{"start":134.972,"end":155.912,"text":"我們在這個審查的時候先界定市場,所以當時這些案子的這個審查應該是根據當時的內容。重點就是界定市場,但是公平會在這個月的14號的時候表示兩大外送平台合併會有八成的市佔率,本席想請教這八成是如何推估而來?"},{"start":157.021,"end":157.181,"text":"張嘉郡"},{"start":174.11,"end":182.877,"text":"二）本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具:「多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案案。）並備質詢．一）本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具:「多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案案。）並備質詢．一）本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具:「多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案案。）並備質詢．一）本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具:「多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案案。"},{"start":203.772,"end":204.052,"text":"主委認同嗎?"},{"start":231.904,"end":233.845,"text":"公平會本席在這裡要求公平會的裁決必須保障餐飲"},{"start":260.239,"end":264.443,"text":"但我們都知道獨佔本身並非構成禁止結合的要件對吧?"},{"start":278.526,"end":293.754,"text":"獨佔本身是一個事實那我們再進一步判說獨佔事業有什麼樣的行為是不是違反公平交易法的一個規定我們都知道說Uber Eats跟Full Panda彼此就是最大的競爭者那目前呢假設他們結合的話餐飲業者會擔心被漲價外送員會擔心被砍薪而且結合之後消費者是毫無溢價能力那這兩大平台的結合將會造成"},{"start":307.782,"end":336.988,"text":"台灣餐飲業上下游的浩劫以前有一個這個廣告台詞是一家烤肉萬家香現在這兩大平台的結合可能會變成一家烤肉萬家哭因此本席認為公平會的裁決必須審慎考慮幾個面向第一就是要保障餐飲業者不會因為結合而必須付出更高的經營成本那兩個外送平台現在的抽成大概是多少你知道嗎"},{"start":338.292,"end":367.515,"text":"三十到四十不等了。沒錯。差不多三十二到三十八趴之間。那一般的餐飲業者扣除掉食材成本、人事成本、電租等等。中間店家的貨率大概是二十五趴。但是被外送平台抽了三十二至三十八趴之後,店家幾乎是毫無利潤。那其實我們餐飲業者也都是經營得非常辛苦,尤其現在又這個漲店價。不得已的話,他也只好漲價。"},{"start":367.995,"end":370.938,"text":"二）本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具:「多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案案。）"},{"start":383.012,"end":383.352,"text":"二）本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具"},{"start":398.869,"end":410.199,"text":"我同意就是說將來併購方的交易相對人您提到的外送員餐廳或是消費者他們的這個溢價能力這些我們都會考量在裡面好這一點要拜託主委一定要審慎的來協助這些採引業者還有這個"},{"start":415.643,"end":416.203,"text":"二、審查．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．"},{"start":443.377,"end":463.942,"text":"舊金山、芝加哥等城市都已經限定每筆上限15%,並將之法制化。台灣是不是也可以思考將之法制化的?主委你認同嗎?我想是不是專案立法這個要很多面向去考量。我問你個人,我問你公平會的立場。你覺得這樣適合嗎?"},{"start":468.724,"end":493.063,"text":"或許這不是公平會的主管業務但藉這個機會也呼籲相關單位應該著手去研究國際案例並思考未來如何更有效的保障消費者我們期許公平會的裁決會達到多贏的結果就是店家有生意消費者的權益有保護外送員的薪水有保障那平台能夠維持營運"},{"start":495.827,"end":501.259,"text":"本案的審議進度請公平會須定時公告並以書面回覆本席。謝謝。"}]}}}}