{"id":152873,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152873","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d339c8d1909fa45335edc9f0ab618e5ef1f99622ceb699a780469f81d004428335370ae7c0b599e85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張啓楷","委員發言時間":"09:47:16 - 09:54:24","影片長度":"00:07:08","會議時間":"2024-05-23T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請公平交易委員會主任委員就「外送平台併購是否涉及限制競爭之調查程序、認定原則及對消費者權益影響之配套措施」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查：\n（一）本院委員邱志偉等16人擬具「多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具「多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案」案。）","date":"2024-05-23","duration":428,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-13"},"end_time":"2024-05-23T09:54:24+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-23T09:47:16+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":271,"blocks":[["張委員啓楷：（9時47分）謝謝主席，請主委。"],["主席：請李主委。"],["李主任委員鎂：委員早。"],["張委員啓楷：主委早。這次兩大外送平台合併會不會變成是一個外送合成獸？甚至是一個失控的臺灣外送產業呢？我相信剛剛委員已經提到了，您壓力應該是很大的，雖然還沒開始正式審，可是我相信已經有很多很多的人跟你講，這個對臺灣影響太大了，我看你提的報告裡面講到，會有4個面向去檢討嘛！對不對？"],["李主任委員鎂：是。"],["張委員啓楷：你報告還沒出來，如果就這四項，市場集中度、結合後併購方訂價能力這兩項看起來都不會過吧，對不對？"],["李主任委員鎂：我想要看整個資料來判斷。"],["張委員啓楷：主委，他們兩個加一加，你看Uber Eats現在是9.5億美元，新臺幣309億要去併購foodpanda，這個加起來就像你剛才說的，這是資策會公布的，超過八成嘛！八成當然是市場集中度很高吧？八成是不是很高？"],["李主任委員鎂：是。"],["張委員啓楷：所以不用審啊！大家一看就知道第一個面向一定是超過嘛！對不對？第二個，結合以後併購方訂價能力，本來兩間就是最大的，加起來併購能力變一間，這個第二個應該答案也很清楚了吧，是不是？"],["李主任委員鎂：我看還是要……"],["張委員啓楷：點個頭還是……"],["李主任委員鎂：還是要看整個資料後再進一步詳細的分析。"],["張委員啓楷：ok，不過現在看起來，第一項你是認同的，市場集中度看起來有問題嘛！那結合後併購方訂價能力現在來看，其實民眾會很關心是因為它影響的實在是太大了。第一個，外送員，主委，你知道外送員的薪資前陣子有被這兩個平台降低，對不對？"],["李主任委員鎂：是。"],["張委員啓楷：有被降低？你知道嗎？"],["李主任委員鎂：有看到這個消息。"],["張委員啓楷：一個基本單的費用現在是多少錢，你知道嗎？我先跟你說一下，他之前一張單基本費可以拿到60到70塊錢，現在已經降到多少，你知道嗎？本來是60到70元，這兩家他們聯合去把他降下來，現在是多少，你知道嗎？砍到只剩下40塊，本來一張單60到70元，兩家一起把他降到40塊錢了。那我再問你，對合作店家會不會很大影響？一定會嘛！對不對？你知道現在店家抽成差不多多少？100塊會抽多少？抽百分之多少？"],["李主任委員鎂：店家的部分應該是差不多30%到40%啦！再縮小的話是32%到38%啦！"],["張委員啓楷：對，這個高不高？你若開一間店，這個抽成很高，那現在是有兩大家，現在合起來這個抽成不是就更高了？所以對外送員有很大的影響，對合作的店家很大影響，其實衝擊更大的就是我們一般消費者，羊毛出在羊身上，對不對？所以這個案子來老實講，真的是影響非常的大，一方面現在外送員平台上面，我去看他們，他們已經在集結，或者他們有些討論了，有的人說如果這樣做，如果這次合併成功之後，這行業對他們來講，搞不好都必須要轉行了，所以外送員的權益怎麼去照顧到，請公平會一定要納入考量，好不好？"],["李主任委員鎂：是。"],["張委員啓楷：根本的解決方案是什麼？我覺得除了要依靠公平會之外，它應該定一個專法，台灣民眾黨在上個會期就有提出一個專法了，它要對外送平台的管理，還有外送從業人員的權益是要有一個保障的，最近我們臺灣民眾會再提案，我們請主委要提供你的專業意見，好不好？"],["李主任委員鎂：是。"],["張委員啓楷：要保障到外送人員，然後店家的一些議價能力，你們都要提供你們的專業意見，好不好？"],["李主任委員鎂：是。"],["張委員啓楷：好，那我再問一個比較重要的、更具體的，我們剛才說了，去年9月這兩家大的平台談好了，結果把他們的外送員薪資往下降，壓低他們的報酬，那時候你們有宣布要對這兩家平台做立案調查，這是去年9月的事，到現在為什麼都沒有看到你們的調查報告？"],["李主任委員鎂：委員談的是foodpanda跟Uber Eats降低外送員報酬，這部分我們有調查，根據我們調查的結果，其實是分別定價，並不是聯合、先講好的，並沒有事證證明他們兩個是先講好的。"],["張委員啓楷：他們沒有犯意的聯絡？"],["李主任委員鎂：沒有這個合同的行為。"],["張委員啓楷：就是沒有你平常講的犯意跟聯合就對了？"],["李主任委員鎂：它計費的項目等等，我們有做瞭解。"],["張委員啓楷：所以後來是沒有問題嗎？"],["李主任委員鎂：對，認為……"],["張委員啓楷：可是就是一下降那麼多，而且兩家幾乎是同時降啊！"],["李主任委員鎂：就是說個別降，這個在公平專法是沒有非難的可能性。"],["張委員啓楷：是個別降，所以還是拿它沒辦法？"],["李主任委員鎂：因為他們不是先講好的嘛。"],["張委員啓楷：不是共同的，你把那個報告給我一份，好不好？這個報告已經提出來過，對不對？"],["李主任委員鎂：是，我們已經有做過……"],["張委員啓楷：好，我們來看一下這個報告，我們再詳細來談，好不好？","另外，至於剛剛本席提到的，怎麼去保障到外送員、保障到合作的店家、保障到消費者的權利？在整個議價過程裡面，這是你們的責任嘛。"],["李主任委員鎂：這個我們會審慎評估。"],["張委員啓楷：你一方面等它送這個申請過來，一方面在一個禮拜能不能先有一個評估報告給我們？"],["李主任委員鎂：我們會把整個案情的過程會後再跟委員做說明。"],["張委員啓楷：做評估，好不好？你已經有做了，還是目前可以趕快去做？"],["李主任委員鎂：這兩個，委員，你說的是這個結合案，還是降低報酬的部分？"],["張委員啓楷：沒有，就是現在要合併的這個。"],["李主任委員鎂：這個合併案我們是5月14號收到這個申報的案件……"],["張委員啓楷：5月14號收到？"],["李主任委員鎂：對，5月14號，所以現在是針對這個資料來做評估。"],["張委員啓楷：好，那你大概需要多久，你拿到以後需要多久？你應該會先有一個評估嘛，對不對？"],["李主任委員鎂：我們會看它資料齊不齊備，如果齊備就受理，受理之後30天的審查期間，必要的時候可以再延60天。"],["張委員啓楷：30天審查之前，你們內部會有一個評估嗎？如果有評估報告能不能一個禮拜先給我？"],["李主任委員鎂：照我們的程序，第一個就是看資料；第二個是徵詢各界的意見；再來就是委員會去討論；最後會做出一個決定。"],["張委員啓楷：好，一方面照你們的法律程序來走，另一方面，如果之前先做一個評估報告，可以的話，就一個禮拜內先給我。"],["李主任委員鎂：如果有進一步消息可提供的話，我會再跟委員聯絡。"],["張委員啓楷：好，謝謝主委。"],["主席：李主委，你要不要想清楚啊，兩個外送平台合併的評估報告，你們可以先送立法院？可以這樣嗎？"],["張委員啓楷：評估報告不行吧？"],["主席：對啊，張委員剛剛講的不是……"],["張委員啓楷：我講的是，你們內部一定會先送評估嘛，對不對？"],["主席：對啊，張委員剛剛講的是請你提供你們內部的評估報告，你們那個可以先送立法院？"],["李主任委員鎂：我說明一下，我們的……"],["主席：你要想清楚喔，不要亂回答喔！"],["李主任委員鎂：因為現在那個應該不是評估報告，而是我們的進度，譬如說現在是在補件當中，這個我們可以對外來說明，不是說對這個案件實情的評估報告。"],["主席：這個是你們的審查進度報告。"],["張委員啓楷：主席在問的是，如果它都齊全，你當然有一個法律程序，30天內你要審嘛，對不對？"],["李主任委員鎂：對。"],["張委員啓楷：我現在就是說除了這個，當然這個到時候都是公開的啦，我是說在這個之前你們內部一定也會做某些評估嘛，你方不方便把這個內部評估報告給我？"],["李主任委員鎂：沒有評估……"],["張委員啓楷：不會評估是不是？"],["李主任委員鎂：就是資料都齊全，徵詢意見以後就到委員會去審查，審查結果……"],["張委員啓楷：所以就是要等你們整個開始審查就對了，好，OK。"],["主席：對，我只是要確認一下，不然不小心又害他被告藐視國會，這個很重要。"],["張委員啓楷：不會啦，不會那麼嚴重啦！你看，我們大家都是為人民做事嘛，對不對？"],["主席：是啊。"],["張委員啓楷：你看外送員的權益顧到了，店家的權益也顧到了，民眾的權益也顧到了。你們不要有任何壓力，這都是很平和的，為了國家好。謝謝！"],["主席：好，謝謝。","接下來請鄭天財委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":202,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-13","speakers":["邱議瑩","楊瓊瓔","陳亭妃","鄭正鈐","張嘉郡","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra 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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,229 --> 00:00:01,729\n委員,接下來請張啓楷委員發言。謝謝主席。請他出位。來,請你出位。委員長。\n\n2\n00:00:24,965 --> 00:00:50,123\n主委長這次兩大外送平台這個合併會不會變成是一個外送合成獸甚至是一個失控的台灣外送產業呢我相信剛剛委員已經提到了您壓力應該是很大的雖然還沒開始正式審對不對可是我相信已經有很多很多的人跟你講這個對台灣影響太大了我看你提到的這個報告裡面講到\n\n3\n00:00:51,764 --> 00:01:16,911\n會有四個面向去檢討嘛對不對是你報告還沒出來那交去四行市場的集中度結合或併購的這個定價能力這兩項看起來都不會過嘛對不對我想要看整個資料才來判斷他們兩家家你看UberEats現在是9.5億美元對不對新台幣309億要去併購普遍打\n\n4\n00:01:22,452 --> 00:01:48,841\n這是施策會公布的嘛,超過八成嘛。被審的中間市場集中度很高吧?被審是不是很高?是。所以不用審啊,大家一看就知道第一個面向一定是超過嘛,對不對?第二個結合以後併購的這個定價能力,本錢兩斤的最大啊,那加起來併購能力變一斤,這個第二個應該也,答案你很清楚了吧?是不是?\n\n5\n00:01:50,165 --> 00:02:16,183\n我看還是要還是要看整個資料齁整個還要進一步詳細的分析OK不過現在看起來第一項你是認同的啦市場集中度看起來有問題嘛那結合後的併購這個定價能力那現在來看齁其實民眾會很關心是因為它影響實在是太大了第一個外送員屬於你知道外送員現在前陣子有被這兩個平台\n\n6\n00:02:17,849 --> 00:02:46,094\n他們這個薪資有被降低對不對?是有被降低你知道嗎?有看到這個消息一個單一個基本基本基本的這個單的費用現在是多少錢你知道嗎?我先跟你講一下他進行一張單喔基本基本費可以拿到60到70塊錢現在已經降到多少你知道嗎?本來是60到70這兩家他們聯合去把它降下來現在重多了你知道嗎?\n\n7\n00:02:48,424 --> 00:03:06,960\n刊到只剩下40塊本來一張單60到70兩家一起把它降降到40塊錢了好那我再問你對合作店家會不會有很大影響一定會嘛對不對你怎麼叫店家\n\n8\n00:03:08,243 --> 00:03:35,414\n應該是差不多三十到四十吧?再縮小一點,32到38%啦。對啊,這個高不高?你如果開一間店,這個抽層很高耶。那現在是有兩大家,現在合起來,那這個抽層不是就更高了?所以對外送員有很大的影響,對合作的店家有很大的影響。其實衝擊更大就是我們,一般的消費者嘛。\n\n9\n00:03:36,909 --> 00:03:40,650\n所以外送員的潛力怎麼去照顧到?請公平委員一定要納入考量好不好?\n\n10\n00:04:03,888 --> 00:04:29,585\n那根本的解決方案是什麼我覺得除了要依靠公平委之外他應該訂一個專法台灣民眾黨在上個會期就提出一個專法了他要對外送平台的管理還有外送這個從業人員這個權利是要有一個保障的那這個最近我們台灣民眾黨會在提案我們請主委要提供你的專業意見好不好要保障到\n\n11\n00:04:30,980 --> 00:04:59,531\n外送人員、店家的一些議價能力,提供專業意見,好不好?問一個比較重要的,更具體的,那怎麼說啊?久年到尾啊,這兩家大的平台,他們說好啊,結果把他們外送人員的薪資往下降了,壓低他們的報酬,那時候你有選擇嗎?你們宣布說你們要對這兩家平台做立案的調查,久年到尾的事到現在,是我們無法理解的調查報告?\n\n12\n00:05:03,300 --> 00:05:28,281\n委員談的是說FullPanda跟UberEats降低外送員報酬這我們有調查根據我們調查的結果其實是分別定價並不是聯合公同貨並沒有市政﹐他們沒有範例的聯繫就是沒有你平常講的那個範例跟那個聯合就對了那它計費的項目等等我們有做這個瞭解\n\n13\n00:05:29,042 --> 00:05:53,625\n所以後來是沒有問題嗎?那可是就是一下降那麼多啊,而且兩家幾乎是同時降啊。就是說個別降,這個在公平交易法是沒有非難的。是個別降,所以還是拿它沒辦法。因為它不是共同合嘛。不是共同,你把那個報告給我一份好不好。這個已經提出來過對不對?是,我們已經有做過實力了。好,我們來看一下這個報告的這個,裡面的,我們把它詳細來談好不好。那另外之一我們剛剛本席提到的,怎麼去保障到\n\n14\n00:05:54,406 --> 00:06:05,781\n外送員保障到合作這個店家保障到消費者這個權利在整個溢價過程裡面這是你們責任嗎這是我們會審慎評估你一方面等他送這個申請過來一方面你在一個禮拜能不能先有一個評估報告給我們\n\n15\n00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:33,695\n我們會把這個整個案情的過程再跟會後跟委員評估好不好?你已經有做了還是目前可以趕快去做?這兩個齁,那個我以為你說的是這個結合啊還是說那個降低報酬那一部分?喔沒有沒有,現在合併這個?這個合併案我們是5月14號收到這個申報的案件齁,我們目前針對這個五月十四十二?對,五月十四齁,所以現在是針對這個資料在做評估好,那你大概多久?你拿到以後多久?你應該先會有一個評估嘛對不對?\n\n16\n00:06:34,355 --> 00:06:43,264\n我們會看他資料齊不齊備,如果齊備以後就受理,受理以後30天的審查期間。需要時候可以延到再延60天。我想我們最後,我們是會照我們的程序是會第一個就是說看資料,第二個徵詢各界的意見,那再來就是委員會去討論,最後會做出一個決定。\n\n17\n00:06:56,496 --> 00:07:04,141\n一方面照你們的法律程序來走,那一方面如果之前先做一個評估報告,可以的話就先一個禮拜內先給。如果有進一步消息可提供的話,我會再跟你們。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n229\t1729\t委員,接下來請張啓楷委員發言。謝謝主席。請他出位。來,請你出位。委員長。\n24965\t50123\t主委長這次兩大外送平台這個合併會不會變成是一個外送合成獸甚至是一個失控的台灣外送產業呢我相信剛剛委員已經提到了您壓力應該是很大的雖然還沒開始正式審對不對可是我相信已經有很多很多的人跟你講這個對台灣影響太大了我看你提到的這個報告裡面講到\n51764\t76911\t會有四個面向去檢討嘛 對不對是你報告還沒出來那交去四行市場的集中度結合或併購的這個定價能力這兩項看起來都不會過嘛對不對我想要看整個資料才來判斷他們兩家家你看UberEats現在是9.5億美元對不對新台幣309億要去併購普遍打\n82452\t108841\t這是施策會公布的嘛,超過八成嘛。被審的中間市場集中度很高吧?被審是不是很高?是。所以不用審啊,大家一看就知道第一個面向一定是超過嘛,對不對?第二個結合以後併購的這個定價能力,本錢兩斤的最大啊,那加起來併購能力變一斤,這個第二個應該也,答案你很清楚了吧?是不是?\n110165\t136183\t我看還是要還是要看整個資料齁整個還要進一步詳細的分析OK不過現在看起來第一項你是認同的啦市場集中度看起來有問題嘛那結合後的併購這個定價能力那現在來看齁其實民眾會很關心是因為它影響實在是太大了第一個外送員屬於你知道外送員現在前陣子有被這兩個平台\n137849\t166094\t他們這個薪資有被降低對不對?是有被降低你知道嗎?有看到這個消息一個單一個基本基本基本的這個單的費用現在是多少錢你知道嗎?我先跟你講一下他進行一張單喔基本基本費可以拿到60到70塊錢現在已經降到多少你知道嗎?本來是60到70這兩家他們聯合去把它降下來現在重多了你知道嗎?\n168424\t186960\t刊到只剩下40塊本來一張單60到70兩家一起把它降降到40塊錢了好那我再問你對合作店家會不會有很大影響一定會嘛對不對你怎麼叫店家\n188243\t215414\t應該是差不多三十到四十吧?再縮小一點,32到38%啦。對啊,這個高不高?你如果開一間店,這個抽層很高耶。那現在是有兩大家,現在合起來,那這個抽層不是就更高了?所以對外送員有很大的影響,對合作的店家有很大的影響。其實衝擊更大就是我們,一般的消費者嘛。\n216909\t220650\t所以外送員的潛力怎麼去照顧到?請公平委員一定要納入考量好不好?\n243888\t269585\t那根本的解決方案是什麼我覺得除了要依靠公平委之外他應該訂一個專法台灣民眾黨在上個會期就提出一個專法了他要對外送平台的管理還有外送這個從業人員這個權利是要有一個保障的那這個最近我們台灣民眾黨會在提案我們請主委要提供你的專業意見好不好要保障到\n270980\t299531\t外送人員、店家的一些議價能力,提供專業意見,好不好?問一個比較重要的,更具體的,那怎麼說啊?久年到尾啊,這兩家大的平台,他們說好啊,結果把他們外送人員的薪資往下降了,壓低他們的報酬,那時候你有選擇嗎?你們宣布說你們要對這兩家平台做立案的調查,久年到尾的事到現在,是我們無法理解的調查報告?\n303300\t328281\t委員談的是說Full Panda跟UberEats降低外送員報酬這我們有調查根據我們調查的結果其實是分別定價並不是聯合公同貨並沒有市政﹐他們沒有範例的聯繫就是沒有你平常講的那個範例跟那個聯合就對了那它計費的項目等等我們有做這個瞭解\n329042\t353625\t所以後來是沒有問題嗎?那可是就是一下降那麼多啊,而且兩家幾乎是同時降啊。就是說個別降,這個在公平交易法是沒有非難的。是個別降,所以還是拿它沒辦法。因為它不是共同合嘛。不是共同,你把那個報告給我一份好不好。這個已經提出來過對不對?是,我們已經有做過實力了。好,我們來看一下這個報告的這個,裡面的,我們把它詳細來談好不好。那另外之一我們剛剛本席提到的,怎麼去保障到\n354406\t365781\t外送員保障到合作這個店家保障到消費者這個權利在整個溢價過程裡面這是你們責任嗎這是我們會審慎評估你一方面等他送這個申請過來一方面你在一個禮拜能不能先有一個評估報告給我們\n367080\t393695\t我們會把這個整個案情的過程再跟會後跟委員評估好不好?你已經有做了還是目前可以趕快去做?這兩個齁,那個我以為你說的是這個結合啊還是說那個降低報酬那一部分?喔沒有沒有,現在合併這個?這個合併案我們是5月14號收到這個申報的案件齁,我們目前針對這個 五月十四十二?對,五月十四齁,所以現在是針對這個資料在做評估好,那你大概多久?你拿到以後多久?你應該先會有一個評估嘛對不對?\n394355\t403264\t我們會看他資料齊不齊備,如果齊備以後就受理,受理以後30天的審查期間。需要時候可以延到再延60天。我想我們最後,我們是會照我們的程序是會第一個就是說看資料,第二個徵詢各界的意見,那再來就是委員會去討論,最後會做出一個決定。\n416496\t424141\t一方面照你們的法律程序來走,那一方面如果之前先做一個評估報告,可以的話就先一個禮拜內先給。如果有進一步消息可提供的話,我會再跟你們。\n","txt":"委員,接下來請張啓楷委員發言。謝謝主席。請他出位。來,請你出位。委員長。\n主委長這次兩大外送平台這個合併會不會變成是一個外送合成獸甚至是一個失控的台灣外送產業呢我相信剛剛委員已經提到了您壓力應該是很大的雖然還沒開始正式審對不對可是我相信已經有很多很多的人跟你講這個對台灣影響太大了我看你提到的這個報告裡面講到\n會有四個面向去檢討嘛 對不對是你報告還沒出來那交去四行市場的集中度結合或併購的這個定價能力這兩項看起來都不會過嘛對不對我想要看整個資料才來判斷他們兩家家你看UberEats現在是9.5億美元對不對新台幣309億要去併購普遍打\n這是施策會公布的嘛,超過八成嘛。被審的中間市場集中度很高吧?被審是不是很高?是。所以不用審啊,大家一看就知道第一個面向一定是超過嘛,對不對?第二個結合以後併購的這個定價能力,本錢兩斤的最大啊,那加起來併購能力變一斤,這個第二個應該也,答案你很清楚了吧?是不是?\n我看還是要還是要看整個資料齁整個還要進一步詳細的分析OK不過現在看起來第一項你是認同的啦市場集中度看起來有問題嘛那結合後的併購這個定價能力那現在來看齁其實民眾會很關心是因為它影響實在是太大了第一個外送員屬於你知道外送員現在前陣子有被這兩個平台\n他們這個薪資有被降低對不對?是有被降低你知道嗎?有看到這個消息一個單一個基本基本基本的這個單的費用現在是多少錢你知道嗎?我先跟你講一下他進行一張單喔基本基本費可以拿到60到70塊錢現在已經降到多少你知道嗎?本來是60到70這兩家他們聯合去把它降下來現在重多了你知道嗎?\n刊到只剩下40塊本來一張單60到70兩家一起把它降降到40塊錢了好那我再問你對合作店家會不會有很大影響一定會嘛對不對你怎麼叫店家\n應該是差不多三十到四十吧?再縮小一點,32到38%啦。對啊,這個高不高?你如果開一間店,這個抽層很高耶。那現在是有兩大家,現在合起來,那這個抽層不是就更高了?所以對外送員有很大的影響,對合作的店家有很大的影響。其實衝擊更大就是我們,一般的消費者嘛。\n所以外送員的潛力怎麼去照顧到?請公平委員一定要納入考量好不好?\n那根本的解決方案是什麼我覺得除了要依靠公平委之外他應該訂一個專法台灣民眾黨在上個會期就提出一個專法了他要對外送平台的管理還有外送這個從業人員這個權利是要有一個保障的那這個最近我們台灣民眾黨會在提案我們請主委要提供你的專業意見好不好要保障到\n外送人員、店家的一些議價能力,提供專業意見,好不好?問一個比較重要的,更具體的,那怎麼說啊?久年到尾啊,這兩家大的平台,他們說好啊,結果把他們外送人員的薪資往下降了,壓低他們的報酬,那時候你有選擇嗎?你們宣布說你們要對這兩家平台做立案的調查,久年到尾的事到現在,是我們無法理解的調查報告?\n委員談的是說Full Panda跟UberEats降低外送員報酬這我們有調查根據我們調查的結果其實是分別定價並不是聯合公同貨並沒有市政﹐他們沒有範例的聯繫就是沒有你平常講的那個範例跟那個聯合就對了那它計費的項目等等我們有做這個瞭解\n所以後來是沒有問題嗎?那可是就是一下降那麼多啊,而且兩家幾乎是同時降啊。就是說個別降,這個在公平交易法是沒有非難的。是個別降,所以還是拿它沒辦法。因為它不是共同合嘛。不是共同,你把那個報告給我一份好不好。這個已經提出來過對不對?是,我們已經有做過實力了。好,我們來看一下這個報告的這個,裡面的,我們把它詳細來談好不好。那另外之一我們剛剛本席提到的,怎麼去保障到\n外送員保障到合作這個店家保障到消費者這個權利在整個溢價過程裡面這是你們責任嗎這是我們會審慎評估你一方面等他送這個申請過來一方面你在一個禮拜能不能先有一個評估報告給我們\n我們會把這個整個案情的過程再跟會後跟委員評估好不好?你已經有做了還是目前可以趕快去做?這兩個齁,那個我以為你說的是這個結合啊還是說那個降低報酬那一部分?喔沒有沒有,現在合併這個?這個合併案我們是5月14號收到這個申報的案件齁,我們目前針對這個 五月十四十二?對,五月十四齁,所以現在是針對這個資料在做評估好,那你大概多久?你拿到以後多久?你應該先會有一個評估嘛對不對?\n我們會看他資料齊不齊備,如果齊備以後就受理,受理以後30天的審查期間。需要時候可以延到再延60天。我想我們最後,我們是會照我們的程序是會第一個就是說看資料,第二個徵詢各界的意見,那再來就是委員會去討論,最後會做出一個決定。\n一方面照你們的法律程序來走,那一方面如果之前先做一個評估報告,可以的話就先一個禮拜內先給。如果有進一步消息可提供的話,我會再跟你們。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.229 --> 00:01.729\n委員,接下來請張啓楷委員發言。謝謝主席。請他出位。來,請你出位。委員長。\n\n00:24.965 --> 00:50.123\n主委長這次兩大外送平台這個合併會不會變成是一個外送合成獸甚至是一個失控的台灣外送產業呢我相信剛剛委員已經提到了您壓力應該是很大的雖然還沒開始正式審對不對可是我相信已經有很多很多的人跟你講這個對台灣影響太大了我看你提到的這個報告裡面講到\n\n00:51.764 --> 01:16.911\n會有四個面向去檢討嘛對不對是你報告還沒出來那交去四行市場的集中度結合或併購的這個定價能力這兩項看起來都不會過嘛對不對我想要看整個資料才來判斷他們兩家家你看UberEats現在是9.5億美元對不對新台幣309億要去併購普遍打\n\n01:22.452 --> 01:48.841\n這是施策會公布的嘛,超過八成嘛。被審的中間市場集中度很高吧?被審是不是很高?是。所以不用審啊,大家一看就知道第一個面向一定是超過嘛,對不對?第二個結合以後併購的這個定價能力,本錢兩斤的最大啊,那加起來併購能力變一斤,這個第二個應該也,答案你很清楚了吧?是不是?\n\n01:50.165 --> 02:16.183\n我看還是要還是要看整個資料齁整個還要進一步詳細的分析OK不過現在看起來第一項你是認同的啦市場集中度看起來有問題嘛那結合後的併購這個定價能力那現在來看齁其實民眾會很關心是因為它影響實在是太大了第一個外送員屬於你知道外送員現在前陣子有被這兩個平台\n\n02:17.849 --> 02:46.094\n他們這個薪資有被降低對不對?是有被降低你知道嗎?有看到這個消息一個單一個基本基本基本的這個單的費用現在是多少錢你知道嗎?我先跟你講一下他進行一張單喔基本基本費可以拿到60到70塊錢現在已經降到多少你知道嗎?本來是60到70這兩家他們聯合去把它降下來現在重多了你知道嗎?\n\n02:48.424 --> 03:06.960\n刊到只剩下40塊本來一張單60到70兩家一起把它降降到40塊錢了好那我再問你對合作店家會不會有很大影響一定會嘛對不對你怎麼叫店家\n\n03:08.243 --> 03:35.414\n應該是差不多三十到四十吧?再縮小一點,32到38%啦。對啊,這個高不高?你如果開一間店,這個抽層很高耶。那現在是有兩大家,現在合起來,那這個抽層不是就更高了?所以對外送員有很大的影響,對合作的店家有很大的影響。其實衝擊更大就是我們,一般的消費者嘛。\n\n03:36.909 --> 03:40.650\n所以外送員的潛力怎麼去照顧到?請公平委員一定要納入考量好不好?\n\n04:03.888 --> 04:29.585\n那根本的解決方案是什麼我覺得除了要依靠公平委之外他應該訂一個專法台灣民眾黨在上個會期就提出一個專法了他要對外送平台的管理還有外送這個從業人員這個權利是要有一個保障的那這個最近我們台灣民眾黨會在提案我們請主委要提供你的專業意見好不好要保障到\n\n04:30.980 --> 04:59.531\n外送人員、店家的一些議價能力,提供專業意見,好不好?問一個比較重要的,更具體的,那怎麼說啊?久年到尾啊,這兩家大的平台,他們說好啊,結果把他們外送人員的薪資往下降了,壓低他們的報酬,那時候你有選擇嗎?你們宣布說你們要對這兩家平台做立案的調查,久年到尾的事到現在,是我們無法理解的調查報告?\n\n05:03.300 --> 05:28.281\n委員談的是說FullPanda跟UberEats降低外送員報酬這我們有調查根據我們調查的結果其實是分別定價並不是聯合公同貨並沒有市政﹐他們沒有範例的聯繫就是沒有你平常講的那個範例跟那個聯合就對了那它計費的項目等等我們有做這個瞭解\n\n05:29.042 --> 05:53.625\n所以後來是沒有問題嗎?那可是就是一下降那麼多啊,而且兩家幾乎是同時降啊。就是說個別降,這個在公平交易法是沒有非難的。是個別降,所以還是拿它沒辦法。因為它不是共同合嘛。不是共同,你把那個報告給我一份好不好。這個已經提出來過對不對?是,我們已經有做過實力了。好,我們來看一下這個報告的這個,裡面的,我們把它詳細來談好不好。那另外之一我們剛剛本席提到的,怎麼去保障到\n\n05:54.406 --> 06:05.781\n外送員保障到合作這個店家保障到消費者這個權利在整個溢價過程裡面這是你們責任嗎這是我們會審慎評估你一方面等他送這個申請過來一方面你在一個禮拜能不能先有一個評估報告給我們\n\n06:07.080 --> 06:33.695\n我們會把這個整個案情的過程再跟會後跟委員評估好不好?你已經有做了還是目前可以趕快去做?這兩個齁,那個我以為你說的是這個結合啊還是說那個降低報酬那一部分?喔沒有沒有,現在合併這個?這個合併案我們是5月14號收到這個申報的案件齁,我們目前針對這個五月十四十二?對,五月十四齁,所以現在是針對這個資料在做評估好,那你大概多久?你拿到以後多久?你應該先會有一個評估嘛對不對?\n\n06:34.355 --> 06:43.264\n我們會看他資料齊不齊備,如果齊備以後就受理,受理以後30天的審查期間。需要時候可以延到再延60天。我想我們最後,我們是會照我們的程序是會第一個就是說看資料,第二個徵詢各界的意見,那再來就是委員會去討論,最後會做出一個決定。\n\n06:56.496 --> 07:04.141\n一方面照你們的法律程序來走,那一方面如果之前先做一個評估報告,可以的話就先一個禮拜內先給。如果有進一步消息可提供的話,我會再跟你們。\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.229,"end":1.729,"text":"委員,接下來請張啓楷委員發言。謝謝主席。請他出位。來,請你出位。委員長。"},{"start":24.965,"end":50.123,"text":"主委長這次兩大外送平台這個合併會不會變成是一個外送合成獸甚至是一個失控的台灣外送產業呢我相信剛剛委員已經提到了您壓力應該是很大的雖然還沒開始正式審對不對可是我相信已經有很多很多的人跟你講這個對台灣影響太大了我看你提到的這個報告裡面講到"},{"start":51.764,"end":76.911,"text":"會有四個面向去檢討嘛 對不對是你報告還沒出來那交去四行市場的集中度結合或併購的這個定價能力這兩項看起來都不會過嘛對不對我想要看整個資料才來判斷他們兩家家你看UberEats現在是9.5億美元對不對新台幣309億要去併購普遍打"},{"start":82.452,"end":108.841,"text":"這是施策會公布的嘛,超過八成嘛。被審的中間市場集中度很高吧?被審是不是很高?是。所以不用審啊,大家一看就知道第一個面向一定是超過嘛,對不對?第二個結合以後併購的這個定價能力,本錢兩斤的最大啊,那加起來併購能力變一斤,這個第二個應該也,答案你很清楚了吧?是不是?"},{"start":110.165,"end":136.183,"text":"我看還是要還是要看整個資料齁整個還要進一步詳細的分析OK不過現在看起來第一項你是認同的啦市場集中度看起來有問題嘛那結合後的併購這個定價能力那現在來看齁其實民眾會很關心是因為它影響實在是太大了第一個外送員屬於你知道外送員現在前陣子有被這兩個平台"},{"start":137.849,"end":166.094,"text":"他們這個薪資有被降低對不對?是有被降低你知道嗎?有看到這個消息一個單一個基本基本基本的這個單的費用現在是多少錢你知道嗎?我先跟你講一下他進行一張單喔基本基本費可以拿到60到70塊錢現在已經降到多少你知道嗎?本來是60到70這兩家他們聯合去把它降下來現在重多了你知道嗎?"},{"start":168.424,"end":186.96,"text":"刊到只剩下40塊本來一張單60到70兩家一起把它降降到40塊錢了好那我再問你對合作店家會不會有很大影響一定會嘛對不對你怎麼叫店家"},{"start":188.243,"end":215.414,"text":"應該是差不多三十到四十吧?再縮小一點,32到38%啦。對啊,這個高不高?你如果開一間店,這個抽層很高耶。那現在是有兩大家,現在合起來,那這個抽層不是就更高了?所以對外送員有很大的影響,對合作的店家有很大的影響。其實衝擊更大就是我們,一般的消費者嘛。"},{"start":216.909,"end":220.65,"text":"所以外送員的潛力怎麼去照顧到?請公平委員一定要納入考量好不好?"},{"start":243.888,"end":269.585,"text":"那根本的解決方案是什麼我覺得除了要依靠公平委之外他應該訂一個專法台灣民眾黨在上個會期就提出一個專法了他要對外送平台的管理還有外送這個從業人員這個權利是要有一個保障的那這個最近我們台灣民眾黨會在提案我們請主委要提供你的專業意見好不好要保障到"},{"start":270.98,"end":299.531,"text":"外送人員、店家的一些議價能力,提供專業意見,好不好?問一個比較重要的,更具體的,那怎麼說啊?久年到尾啊,這兩家大的平台,他們說好啊,結果把他們外送人員的薪資往下降了,壓低他們的報酬,那時候你有選擇嗎?你們宣布說你們要對這兩家平台做立案的調查,久年到尾的事到現在,是我們無法理解的調查報告?"},{"start":303.3,"end":328.281,"text":"委員談的是說Full Panda跟UberEats降低外送員報酬這我們有調查根據我們調查的結果其實是分別定價並不是聯合公同貨並沒有市政﹐他們沒有範例的聯繫就是沒有你平常講的那個範例跟那個聯合就對了那它計費的項目等等我們有做這個瞭解"},{"start":329.042,"end":353.625,"text":"所以後來是沒有問題嗎?那可是就是一下降那麼多啊,而且兩家幾乎是同時降啊。就是說個別降,這個在公平交易法是沒有非難的。是個別降,所以還是拿它沒辦法。因為它不是共同合嘛。不是共同,你把那個報告給我一份好不好。這個已經提出來過對不對?是,我們已經有做過實力了。好,我們來看一下這個報告的這個,裡面的,我們把它詳細來談好不好。那另外之一我們剛剛本席提到的,怎麼去保障到"},{"start":354.406,"end":365.781,"text":"外送員保障到合作這個店家保障到消費者這個權利在整個溢價過程裡面這是你們責任嗎這是我們會審慎評估你一方面等他送這個申請過來一方面你在一個禮拜能不能先有一個評估報告給我們"},{"start":367.08,"end":393.695,"text":"我們會把這個整個案情的過程再跟會後跟委員評估好不好?你已經有做了還是目前可以趕快去做?這兩個齁,那個我以為你說的是這個結合啊還是說那個降低報酬那一部分?喔沒有沒有,現在合併這個?這個合併案我們是5月14號收到這個申報的案件齁,我們目前針對這個 五月十四十二?對,五月十四齁,所以現在是針對這個資料在做評估好,那你大概多久?你拿到以後多久?你應該先會有一個評估嘛對不對?"},{"start":394.355,"end":403.264,"text":"我們會看他資料齊不齊備,如果齊備以後就受理,受理以後30天的審查期間。需要時候可以延到再延60天。我想我們最後,我們是會照我們的程序是會第一個就是說看資料,第二個徵詢各界的意見,那再來就是委員會去討論,最後會做出一個決定。"},{"start":416.496,"end":424.141,"text":"一方面照你們的法律程序來走,那一方面如果之前先做一個評估報告,可以的話就先一個禮拜內先給。如果有進一步消息可提供的話,我會再跟你們。"}]}}}}