{"id":152878,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152878","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d339c8d1909fa4533c5ea7b1a0af7615bde51848baade829d34e896d657c5e836d0563d7b3527adf5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"莊瑞雄","委員發言時間":"09:44:04 - 09:57:56","影片長度":"00:13:52","會議時間":"2024-05-23T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第25次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理113年度中央政府總預算關於立法院主管預算凍結項目共4案。\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算關於行政院人事行政總處主管預算凍結項目共1案。\n三、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「洗錢防制法修正草案」案。\n（二）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「洗錢防制法第五條及第五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員郭國文等16人擬具「洗錢防制法第五條及第六條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（四）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「洗錢防制法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【第三案（一）各黨團若未提出不復議同意書，則不予審查；（四）如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","date":"2024-05-23","duration":832,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第25次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":25,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-25"},"end_time":"2024-05-23T09:57:56+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-23T09:44:04+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":547,"blocks":[["莊委員瑞雄：（9時44分）謝謝召委，有請立法院周秘書長。"],["主席：請周秘書長。"],["莊委員瑞雄：以及請法務部。"],["主席：請法務部徐次長。"],["莊委員瑞雄：以及司法院副廳長。"],["主席：請司法院副廳長。"],["莊委員瑞雄：秘書長。"],["周秘書長萬來：莊委員好。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你剛才在說國會警察權的部分，我希望你能夠再講清楚，如果我沒有誤解的話，我覺得你講的是完全錯的，國會警察權規定在哪一個法律？"],["周秘書長萬來：這個長期在立法院是有兩方面在爭辯啦！"],["莊委員瑞雄：不要說爭辯，就你們的認知啦！你認為國會警察權，國會議長可以行使他的警察權，其法律依據是什麼？"],["周秘書長萬來：它是家宅權的觀念啊！所以它的意思是，在議場處理的時候，警察權的一個動用，所謂外界所說的警察權動用是會場有影響委員的行使職權……"],["莊委員瑞雄：是啦！我的意思是……"],["周秘書長萬來：其實那個是警察的一個動用，他一定要維護院區的秩序嘛！"],["莊委員瑞雄：是的，但我在跟你講的是總要有一個依據嘛！不是周萬來今天幹了秘書長，或者是韓國瑜幹了院長，那他就說沒有、沒有、沒有，立法院就是我最大，我是院長或秘書長，我最大，所以我不用跟你們講理由，我為了維護秩序。我在跟你講的是哪一部法律給他這樣的授權？"],["周秘書長萬來：這個本來就是院區的議場……"],["莊委員瑞雄：沒有本來啦！要行使權力、擁有權力，總要有法律的授權嘛！"],["周秘書長萬來：沒錯啊！"],["莊委員瑞雄：若沒錯，你要跟我說哪一條、哪一部法律啊！"],["周秘書長萬來：整個立法院……"],["莊委員瑞雄：我不要整個，是哪一部法律？"],["周秘書長萬來：法是沒有這樣的規定。"],["莊委員瑞雄：所以說嘛！"],["周秘書長萬來：不過要補充一下……"],["莊委員瑞雄：法就是沒有這樣的規定。"],["周秘書長萬來：這個是警察權的概念。"],["莊委員瑞雄：是概念就對了。"],["周秘書長萬來：警察的勤務裡面是有規定整個範圍。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我現在不講警察勤務，我現在講院長的權力，我在講國會警察權，國會警察權不會是警察的權力，警察是受命，警察只是受命來，我是在講說當他發動國會警察權的時候，你現在一直在跟我說他是為了要維護秩序，我也知道要維護秩序，我是在跟你說，為了維護秩序為什麼是院長下令啦！他的權力來自於哪裡啦？慢慢地講，沒關係，你們不能胡說八道一通啊！講得有道理就算，但不能亂講。"],["周秘書長萬來：因為本來今天不是探討警察權……"],["莊委員瑞雄：這是一個common sense。"],["周秘書長萬來：不是在警察權探討的範圍啦！因為這個長期裡面有一個概念在，所謂警察權的動用……"],["莊委員瑞雄：所以你們依據一個……"],["周秘書長萬來：莊委員，我可以講嗎？"],["莊委員瑞雄：可以啊！"],["周秘書長萬來：警察權的動用在外界是指影響到委員的職權行使，一定是會場裡面動用警察權的概念。"],["莊委員瑞雄：是嘛！"],["周秘書長萬來：整個立法院……"],["莊委員瑞雄：外界，什麼叫做外界？"],["周秘書長萬來：為什麼我以前為了警察權動用跟法制局一直長期有不同的概念在，所以法制局的概念認為家宅權，主席就是為了整個立法院，他會以家宅權的觀念可以動用警察權，我個人不認為……"],["莊委員瑞雄：法律規定在什麼地方？"],["周秘書長萬來：我個人不認為，所以這個也在探討的過程當中。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我要跟你說的是，秘書長，警察權其實國會議長沒有明文受到法律的授權，他只是在講說國會議長要行政中立，維護整個議事的進行，在立法院組織法裡面有啦！立法院警察勤務的規則，他當然跟你講說國會議長叫你來，連鍾佳濱召委，現在他都可以召喚立法院的駐警啊！如果外面有人抗爭，為維持委員會的議事進行，他也可以啊！國會警察權談的這個不是本席在講或這幾天用到的都不是這一些啦！立法委員跟立法委員之間，國會自主如何來運作，這一塊國會自己處理，外面哪怕是行政院或者是警政署長跟你周萬來多好、跟韓國瑜多好，他們都不能進來，他們是不能進來的喔！哪有什麼警察接受國會議長的指揮，哪一條？也沒有啊！所謂的警察權是維持秩序，維持秩序到底要有哪些種方式，那是剛好國會有駐警，就像你講的，那個只是一個概念。一個法制國家為什麼沒有辦法把它做明文，你知道嗎？就是我們怕被攻擊，任何人執政、任何人在立法院多數都不敢把那個法律明文去授權，如果立法院組織法裡面就把它規定為國會議長可以召喚警察來維持國會的秩序，那我就跟你說，法律有給這樣的授權，都沒話講啦！但我們就沒有這樣的法律啊！所以我才問你說法律的授權呢？趕快給秘書長，沒關係，這個是一個普通的概念嘛！"],["周秘書長萬來：不是，這樣的一個概念，委員，我不想再論辯這個概念，但因為莊委員一直要提啦！所謂的警察權的動用，我們外界所理解的是在會場裡面，因為你干預到委員的職權行使，這叫動用警察權的概念。"],["莊委員瑞雄：是嘛。"],["周秘書長萬來：所以這個我們在討論、在論辯，為什麼從梁肅戎委員一開始……我沒有反對這個概念，這跟法制局局長的概念完全不一樣，所以我才……"],["莊委員瑞雄：秘書長，你不用這麼緊張。"],["周秘書長萬來：不是，你再讓我講一下。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我不是在跟你說不能動用警察權，我現在講的是動用了警察權會產生爭議，那些爭議要怎麼來處理，這個爭議就是要溯源誰賦予你這樣的一個權限，立法院組織法有沒有授權給院長，有沒有授權給秘書長？我要跟你講的是沒有，所以你才跟我講說：唉唷！那可能是一個家宅權的概念，那是外界的觀念，我是在跟你正本清源，牽扯到委員跟委員之間，秘書長，這人喔，不用互相欺騙啦，在一個位子都不會很久啦！"],["周秘書長萬來：我可以……"],["莊委員瑞雄：我會讓你講，公平解釋就好，警察權講的其實都是在談非立法委員去干涉到了整個立法院，比如說群眾或者不相干的人，干涉到立法院整個議事的運作，這個時候才有警察權，發動議事抗爭的時候，我還沒看到有一個終局定論。每一個人都知道，立法院應該更有秩序，民主政治大家更應該有素質，這個大家都知道，臺灣老百姓都知道，但是發動議事抗爭的時候，你要動用警察權，那我就追根究柢來問你了，你的權力來源來自於哪裡？你就說沒有嘛，你只說概念而已，你就說因為過去怎麼樣，實在是……你不覺得那個立法院警察的勤務執行規則……那個哪是法律，那不是法律耶！"],["周秘書長萬來：我可以補充嗎？"],["莊委員瑞雄：可以。"],["周秘書長萬來：就是因為這一個警察勤務規則並不代表我們所說的警察權的動用，所以我所說的動用警察權的概念，是在會場裡面動用的警察權，這個是涉及對於委員職權行使的干預，所以我們警察權的動用是這一個概念，在整個議場裡面，立法院當然一定有……"],["莊委員瑞雄：是啦，我在跟你講的是，誰可以動用的法律授權來自於哪裡嘛。"],["周秘書長萬來：因為沒有法源，所以這個……"],["莊委員瑞雄：所以嘛！"],["周秘書長萬來：我說明一下，因為沒有法源，所以從劉松藩院長一直到現在，包括韓院長在內，都不會動用警察權。"],["莊委員瑞雄：對嘛！"],["周秘書長萬來：這個警察權的概念是這樣來的。"],["莊委員瑞雄：所以我今天只是要跟你講兩個字而已，不是要跟你吵架啦！第一個，就是沒有法律的授權啦，沒有一條法令規定授權給院長、國會議長警察權，所以你就要很迂迴地從過去怎麼樣、怎麼樣說起，然後說那個是一個慣例怎麼樣、怎麼樣，甚至你說那個只是一個觀念，整個立法院的這一些警察執行勤務，我們只是弄一個規則，那個規則是在規範這些警察，那不是國會議長有的權限，我是在跟你講這個，所以你解釋完以後，這個其實都有很大的紛爭。"],["周秘書長萬來：我補充一下，可以嗎？"],["莊委員瑞雄：可以啊，把它講完整。"],["周秘書長萬來：因為我們兩者之間對於警察權的這個概念是不一樣的，不一樣才會產生我們這邊的論辯。"],["莊委員瑞雄：不、不、不，本來就會不一樣。"],["周秘書長萬來：為什麼當時在會場裡面，警察權不能動用的理念，就是因為這個警察勤務規則沒有賦予院長在會場裡面可以動用警察權作議事的處理。"],["莊委員瑞雄：是嘛。"],["周秘書長萬來：至於其他的警察勤務，當然院長有這個權力指派外面的這些警察。"],["莊委員瑞雄：是嘛，我現在是跟你講議場嘛，不是議場的，我跟你講這個幹什麼？站在你後面的都是法學專家，他們聽了也想笑啊，對不對？國會自主，在自主裡面，你說警察權的動用，當然是在議場裡面，那議場裡面警察怎麼會去介入呢？每一個政黨有它議事策略的一個攻防啊，所以我們不要牽扯太遠！"],["周秘書長萬來：沒錯，議場、會場的概念不一樣啦。"],["莊委員瑞雄：所以我要跟你講的就是這個都要小心啦，就像你講的，真的沒有法律授權，但是為了整個國會自主的運作，要排除其他的、維護整個秩序，那個都是在講外部去干擾到這個議場裡面的議事運作，其他其實都叫做國會自律，最後不守規矩的，不就要懲戒，不是這樣說嗎？沒有讓你漏氣啦！是你說的不清楚，我要追問得比較清楚一點，法制上確實就是沒有授予在議場裡面……"],["周秘書長萬來：謝謝指導，不過我的想法……"],["莊委員瑞雄：不敢指導，對年紀比我大一點的，我沒有客氣一點不行。佳濱抱歉，我後面再問兩句話就好，我也要針對議題講一下。秘書長請回。"],["周秘書長萬來：好，謝謝你。"],["莊委員瑞雄：這個要請金管會、法務部，法務部有上來了嘛？我現在這樣講啦，今天召委安排這個會，我相信其實社會大眾虛擬交易的數量越來越多，我們擔心的就是這些黑錢洗到最後變白錢，我們要溯源嘛。"],["徐次長錫祥：是。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我很擔心的是，我聽完以後，你們跟金管會以及我們這個虛擬交易所的合作，幾乎說是零。我們今天要審這部法律，你這樣叫召委要怎麼審下去？我如果一問下去，我們跟外部的合作，這個部分我們如何去做一個加強？金管會也是一樣，金管會不能每次都發一些新聞、行政指導以後，叫人家不要受騙就好，推動業界自己去自律啊，這些人都不自律，你只會叫人家自律。"],["徐次長錫祥：現在……"],["莊委員瑞雄：簡單答復就好……"],["徐次長錫祥：好，臺高檢已經跟四大虛擬貨幣交易所建立平臺，也預計再繼續跟8家接洽，所以我們會跟業者充分地合作。"],["莊委員瑞雄：這個我很擔心，你說只是跟我們臺灣內部合作，還是不夠，光這個交易平臺就那麼多，你看，虛假的那麼多，我們現在來看的話，金管會裡面我每一次看到的幾乎就是投資人對自己投資的後果要自行負責，然後對於整個幣安以外的境外投資平臺，要用什麼樣的合作模式。"],["徐次長錫祥：我們……"],["莊委員瑞雄：本席很擔心的就是漏洞。"],["徐次長錫祥：是，我們也有把相關的資料提供給國外交易所，請他們來回復。"],["莊委員瑞雄：這個部分我們真的是有做得不夠的地方，在我們今天修法之前，我們還沒有看到你們有多大的相關配套有做起來，還有你們運行到現在的成效是怎麼樣，因為金額還是那麼大，這個部分真的要加強，好不好？"],["徐次長錫祥：是，謝謝委員。"],["莊委員瑞雄：OK。"],["主席（陳委員俊宇）：謝謝莊瑞雄委員的質詢。","接下來我們邀請鍾佳濱委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":84,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-25","speakers":["鍾佳濱","黃珊珊","沈發惠","謝龍介","莊瑞雄","羅智強","林思銘","陳俊宇","吳思瑤","楊瓊瓔","郭國文","黃國昌","翁曉玲","傅崐萁","吳宗憲","葉元之"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-05-23"],"gazette_id":"1135001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135001_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第25次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、處理113年度中央政府總預算關於立法院主管預算凍結項目共 4案；二、處理113年度中央政\n府總預算關於行政院人事行政總處主管預算凍結項目共1案；三、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議\n「洗錢防制法修正草案」案、(二)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「洗錢防制法第五條及第五條之一條文修\n正草案」案、(三)委員郭國文等16人擬具「洗錢防制法第五條及第六條之一條文修正草案」案、\n(四)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「洗錢防制法部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1135001_00001"}},"transcript":{"id":"152878","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152878","tool":"pyannote","id":"152878-pyannote"},"job_id":"KT8iySZjYZwhOTZz","queued_at":"2024-05-30 18:36:37","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-05-30 18:36:37","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152878"},{"time":"2024-05-30 18:36:38","msg":"downloading https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d339c8d1909fa4533c5ea7b1a0af7615bde51848baade829a11fe39283430859cbfaccc57ef64b895ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8"},{"time":"2024-05-30 18:37:06","msg":"converting mp4 to wav"},{"time":"2024-05-30 18:37:08","msg":"running pyannote"},{"time":"2024-05-30 18:37:20","msg":"status: 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816.921, \"end\": 816.941, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"予\", \"start\": 816.941, \"end\": 817.082, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 817.082, \"end\": 817.102, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"．\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,245 --> 00:00:06,305\n國會警察權的部分我希望你能夠再講清楚\n\n2\n00:00:33,496 --> 00:00:58,482\n如果我沒有誤解的話,我覺得你講的是完全錯了。國會警察權規定在哪一個法律?呃,這一個法律在議員法院是有兩方面在爭辯啦。你們的認知啦,你們的認知啦。你認為國會警察權,國會議長可以行使他的警察權,法律預計是什麼?\n\n3\n00:00:58,982 --> 00:01:00,103\n我再跟你講說,總要一個依據嘛。\n\n4\n00:01:23,914 --> 00:01:39,506\n不是說周恩來今天幹了祕書長或者是韓國瑜幹了院長。我說沒有沒有沒有這個立法院就是我最大我是院長或祕書長我最大所以我不用跟你們講理由我為了維護秩序我在跟你講的是誰哪一部法律給你這樣的授權啊?這本來就院區的一個議場沒有本來啦要行使權利擁有權利總要法律的授權嘛\n\n5\n00:01:52,264 --> 00:01:59,582\n沒錯啊沒錯你要告訴我啊哪一部法律啊整個不要整個哪一部法律\n\n6\n00:02:02,752 --> 00:02:12,537\n所以說嘛所以說嘛法就是沒有這樣規定就概念就對了齁我現在不講警察情務我現在講院長的權利我在講國會警察權國會警察權不會是警察的權利警察是受命\n\n7\n00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:37,846\n警察只是受命來我是在講說當你發動國會警察權的時候你現在一直在跟我說為了維護自我為什麼要為了維護秩序我是在跟你講為了維護秩序為什麼是你院長下令啦你的權利來自於哪裡啦你慢慢的講沒關係\n\n8\n00:02:44,570 --> 00:02:52,258\n您不能胡說八道一通話,講得有道理就算,但不能亂講。因為這個本來今天不是這個探討這一個警察的範圍,因為這個長期裡面有一個概念在\n\n9\n00:03:02,729 --> 00:03:20,028\n所以你們依據一個...所以你們依據一個...所以你們依據一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依\n\n10\n00:03:21,449 --> 00:03:39,495\n為什麼我這一個以前為了這個警察人動用跟法治局一直長期不同的概念在所以法治局的概念認為家宅權主席就是為了整個一個立法院他會以家宅權的觀念可以動用警察權我個人不認為我個人不認為所以這個在探討的過程當中我要跟你講的喔是民主黨我就是說\n\n11\n00:03:45,797 --> 00:04:02,883\n警察權其實國會議長沒有明文受到法律的授權他只是在講說國會議長要行政中立維護整個議事的一個進行在我們立法院裡面組織法有啦\n\n12\n00:04:03,783 --> 00:04:28,807\n那立法院警察的情務的規則他當然跟你講說國會議長叫你來連總裁現在召委他都可以召喚那個我們立法院的駐警啊如果外面有人抗爭啊維持委員會的意識境他也可以啊國會警察權談的這個不是本期在講或這幾天用到的都不是這一些啦立法委員跟立法委員之間國會自主如何來運作這一塊國會自己處理\n\n13\n00:04:34,202 --> 00:04:44,207\n這外面哪怕是行政院或者是警政署長跟你作案來多好,跟韓國瑜多好,他們都不能進來。他們是不能進來的喔。他有什麼要我警察接受你國會議長的指揮,哪一條?\n\n14\n00:04:54,571 --> 00:05:06,960\n也沒有啊所謂的警察權是在維持秩序啦那維持秩序到底要有哪些種方式那是剛好你國會有駐警就像你講的那個只是一個概念一個法治國家為什麼沒有辦法把它做明文你知道嗎我們怕被攻擊啦任何人執政任何人在立法院多數都不敢把那個法律明文去授權\n\n15\n00:05:22,392 --> 00:05:32,764\n如果立法院組織法裡面你就把它規定了國會議長他可以召喚警察來維持國會的秩序那我就跟你說法律有給你這樣授權都沒話講了我們就沒有這樣的法律啊所以我在問你說法律的授權啊趕快給秘書長沒關係這個是一個普通的概念嘛\n\n16\n00:05:47,317 --> 00:05:57,971\n委員我不想再論辯這個概念。因為中文一直要提啦。所謂的警察權的動用是我們外界所理的動用警察權是在樂會場裡面為了\n\n17\n00:06:01,115 --> 00:06:26,390\n你干預到委員的職權行使這叫動用警察權的概念所以這個我們在論辯為什麼從梁世榮委員一起開始我們一直反對這個概念所以這跟法治局的羅局長完全概念的這一個不一樣所以我才你不用這麼緊張嘛我不是在跟你講不能動用警察權\n\n18\n00:06:27,310 --> 00:06:28,311\n則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．\n\n19\n00:06:50,009 --> 00:06:50,829\n則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．\n\n20\n00:07:15,069 --> 00:07:29,185\n非立法委員去干涉到的整個立法院,比如說群眾或不相干的人,干涉到立法院的整個議事的一個運作,這個時候才有警察權。發動議事抗爭的時候,\n\n21\n00:07:30,646 --> 00:07:48,436\n我還沒看到有一個終局定論每一個人都知道啊立法院應該更有秩序啊民主政治大家更應該有素質啊這個大家都知道台灣老百姓都知道但是發動議事抗爭的時候你要動用警察權我就追根究柢來問你了\n\n22\n00:07:49,697 --> 00:07:50,377\n那你的權利來源來自於哪裡?\n\n23\n00:07:50,377 --> 00:07:51,358\n你的權利來源來自於哪裡?\n\n24\n00:07:51,358 --> 00:07:58,542\n你就說沒有嘛,你就說概念而已啊。你就說沒有嘛,你就說概念而已啊。你就說概念而已啊。你就說因為過去就這樣,實在是硬的。你就說因為過去就這樣,實在是硬的。你就說因為過去就這樣,實在是硬的。你不覺得因為你那個立法院的那個警務,警察的一個情務執行規則裡面,那個哪是法律?\n\n25\n00:07:58,542 --> 00:08:02,464\n那不是法律欸。你不覺得因為你那個立法院的那個警務,警察的一個情務執行規則裡面,那個哪是法律?\n\n26\n00:08:02,464 --> 00:08:02,864\n那不是法律欸。\n\n27\n00:08:06,803 --> 00:08:33,082\n可以啊,就是因為這一個警察請勿規則並不代表我們所說的警察權的動用所說的動用警察權的概念是在會場裡面的這一個動用警察權所以在這個涉及到對委員的實情的行使的一個干預所以我們警察權的動用是\n\n28\n00:08:33,402 --> 00:08:33,762\n所以我今天要跟你講的\n\n29\n00:08:56,341 --> 00:08:59,043\n我今天要跟你說兩句而已,不是要跟你吵架啦。就是說你那個法律的授權第一個沒有啦。\n\n30\n00:09:05,356 --> 00:09:30,623\n沒有一條法令規定你院長國會議長授權給你說你有這個警察權所以我們就你就很迂迴的從過去怎麼樣怎麼樣然後說那個是一個慣例啊怎麼樣甚至你說那個只是一個觀念立法那個整個立法院的這一些警察知情勤務我們只弄一個規則那規則是在規範這些警察那不是你國會議長許有的權限\n\n31\n00:09:32,944 --> 00:09:33,444\n五（五（五（五（五（五（五（五（五（五（\n\n32\n00:09:55,339 --> 00:10:16,773\n警察權不能動用的理念就是因為這個警察勤務規則是沒有呼籲為院長在會場的意思的這個處理可以動用警察權到這一個會場裡面是嗎那其他的警察因為當然院長有這個權害害的這一些外面的警察我現在跟你講異常嘛不是異常的我跟你講這個幹什麼站在你後面的都是法學專家啊他們聽起來也愛笑啊\n\n33\n00:10:25,596 --> 00:10:45,033\n對嗎?你國會自主你的自主裏面你說要歸你的警察權的一個動用當然是在議場裏面啊那議場裏面警察怎麼可以去介入呢每一個政黨有他的預示策略的一個攻防啊所以我們不要擔心啦議場會場概念不一樣啦所以我要跟你講的就是說這個都要小心啦\n\n34\n00:10:46,124 --> 00:11:02,356\n就像你講的真的沒有法律授權啦但是呢又為了要等個國會自治國會自主的運作要排除其他的那個整個秩序維護整個秩序那個都是在講外部去干擾到這個議場裡面的意識運作啦其他其實齁都叫做國會自律啦阿搞不好若不修復議不可以懲戒不然這樣講\n\n35\n00:11:14,045 --> 00:11:18,000\n則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則\n\n36\n00:11:20,725 --> 00:11:21,945\n則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．\n\n37\n00:11:48,696 --> 00:12:14,459\n這個其實大家社會大眾去講到的整個那個整個虛擬的一個教育的數量越來越多啦我們就擔心的就是這些黑錢洗到最後變白錢我們要溯源嗎我很擔心的就是說你們我聽完以後啊跟金管會以及我們這個虛擬那個這個交易所的一個合作幾乎是有沒有說是零嗎\n\n38\n00:12:15,930 --> 00:12:35,394\n我們今天要審一部法律理案的叫座會要怎麼審呢?我如果一個人幫忙之後,我們跟外部的合作,那這個部分我們如何去做一個加強?儘管會是一樣啊,儘管你不能給大家都發一些行情文啊,行政指導以後,叫人家不要受騙就好啊,推動業界去自律啊,這些人就不自律了,你給人家要自律?\n\n39\n00:12:37,174 --> 00:12:53,611\n現在台高姐已經跟四大虛擬貨幣交易所已經有建立平台那也預計有再繼續跟八家接洽所以我們是要跟業者要充分的合作這個我很擔心你說只到我們內部我們台灣還是不夠啦\n\n40\n00:12:58,915 --> 00:13:02,039\n這個交易平台就那麼多了。你看,虛假的也那麼多了。我們現在來看的話,我們經管會裡面幾乎我每一次看到的就是投資人對你的投資的後果要自己去負責,然後對於整個幣安以外的境外的投資的一個平台。\n\n41\n00:13:16,318 --> 00:13:16,458\n五﹗五﹗五﹗\n\n42\n00:13:36,081 --> 00:13:37,102\n則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5245\t6305\t國會警察權的部分我希望你能夠再講清楚\n33496\t58482\t如果我沒有誤解的話,我覺得你講的是完全錯了。國會警察權規定在哪一個法律?呃,這一個法律在議員法院是有兩方面在爭辯啦。你們的認知啦,你們的認知啦。你認為國會警察權,國會議長可以行使他的警察權,法律預計是什麼?\n58982\t60103\t我再跟你講說,總要一個依據嘛。\n83914\t99506\t不是說周恩來今天幹了祕書長或者是韓國瑜幹了院長。我說沒有沒有沒有這個立法院就是我最大我是院長或祕書長我最大所以我不用跟你們講理由我為了維護秩序我在跟你講的是誰哪一部法律給你這樣的授權啊?這本來就院區的一個議場沒有本來啦要行使權利擁有權利總要法律的授權嘛\n112264\t119582\t沒錯啊沒錯你要告訴我啊哪一部法律啊整個不要整個哪一部法律\n122752\t132537\t所以說嘛所以說嘛法就是沒有這樣規定就概念就對了齁我現在不講警察情務我現在講院長的權利我在講國會警察權國會警察權不會是警察的權利警察是受命\n144400\t157846\t警察只是受命來我是在講說當你發動國會警察權的時候你現在一直在跟我說為了維護自我為什麼要為了維護秩序我是在跟你講為了維護秩序為什麼是你院長下令啦你的權利來自於哪裡啦你慢慢的講沒關係\n164570\t172258\t您不能胡說八道一通話,講得有道理就算,但不能亂講。因為這個本來今天不是這個探討這一個警察的範圍,因為這個長期裡面有一個概念在\n182729\t200028\t所以你們依據一個...所以你們依據一個...所以你們依據一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依\n201449\t219495\t為什麼我這一個以前為了這個警察人動用跟法治局一直長期不同的概念在所以法治局的概念認為家宅權主席就是為了整個一個立法院他會以家宅權的觀念可以動用警察權我個人不認為我個人不認為所以這個在探討的過程當中我要跟你講的喔是民主黨我就是說\n225797\t242883\t警察權其實國會議長沒有明文受到法律的授權他只是在講說國會議長要行政中立維護整個議事的一個進行在我們立法院裡面組織法有啦\n243783\t268807\t那立法院警察的情務的規則他當然跟你講說國會議長叫你來連總裁現在召委他都可以召喚那個我們立法院的駐警啊如果外面有人抗爭啊維持委員會的意識境他也可以啊國會警察權談的這個不是本期在講或這幾天用到的都不是這一些啦立法委員跟立法委員之間國會自主如何來運作這一塊國會自己處理\n274202\t284207\t這外面哪怕是行政院或者是警政署長跟你作案來多好,跟韓國瑜多好,他們都不能進來。他們是不能進來的喔。他有什麼要我警察接受你國會議長的指揮,哪一條?\n294571\t306960\t也沒有啊所謂的警察權是在維持秩序啦那維持秩序到底要有哪些種方式那是剛好你國會有駐警就像你講的那個只是一個概念一個法治國家為什麼沒有辦法把它做明文你知道嗎我們怕被攻擊啦任何人執政任何人在立法院多數都不敢把那個法律明文去授權\n322392\t332764\t如果立法院組織法裡面你就把它規定了國會議長他可以召喚警察來維持國會的秩序那我就跟你說法律有給你這樣授權都沒話講了我們就沒有這樣的法律啊所以我在問你說法律的授權啊趕快給秘書長沒關係這個是一個普通的概念嘛\n347317\t357971\t委員 我不想再論辯這個概念。因為中文一直要提啦。所謂的警察權的動用是我們外界所理的動用警察權是在樂會場裡面為了\n361115\t386390\t你干預到委員的職權行使這叫動用警察權的概念所以這個我們在論辯為什麼從梁世榮委員一起開始我們一直反對這個概念所以這跟法治局的羅局長完全概念的這一個不一樣所以我才你不用這麼緊張嘛我不是在跟你講不能動用警察權\n387310\t388311\t則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．\n410009\t410829\t則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．\n435069\t449185\t非立法委員去干涉到的整個立法院,比如說群眾或不相干的人,干涉到立法院的整個議事的一個運作,這個時候才有警察權。發動議事抗爭的時候,\n450646\t468436\t我還沒看到有一個終局定論每一個人都知道啊立法院應該更有秩序啊民主政治大家更應該有素質啊這個大家都知道台灣老百姓都知道但是發動議事抗爭的時候你要動用警察權我就追根究柢來問你了\n469697\t470377\t那你的權利來源來自於哪裡?\n470377\t471358\t你的權利來源來自於哪裡?\n471358\t478542\t你就說沒有嘛,你就說概念而已啊。 你就說沒有嘛,你就說概念而已啊。 你就說概念而已啊。 你就說因為過去就這樣,實在是硬的。 你就說因為過去就這樣,實在是硬的。 你就說因為過去就這樣,實在是硬的。 你不覺得因為你那個立法院的那個警務,警察的一個情務執行規則裡面,那個哪是法律?\n478542\t482464\t那不是法律欸。 你不覺得因為你那個立法院的那個警務,警察的一個情務執行規則裡面,那個哪是法律?\n482464\t482864\t那不是法律欸。\n486803\t513082\t可以啊,就是因為這一個警察請勿規則並不代表我們所說的警察權的動用所說的動用警察權的概念是在會場裡面的這一個動用警察權所以在這個涉及到對委員的實情的行使的一個干預所以我們警察權的動用是\n513402\t513762\t所以我今天要跟你講的\n536341\t539043\t我今天要跟你說兩句而已,不是要跟你吵架啦。就是說你那個法律的授權第一個沒有啦。\n545356\t570623\t沒有一條法令規定你院長國會議長授權給你說你有這個警察權所以我們就你就很迂迴的從過去怎麼樣怎麼樣然後說那個是一個慣例啊怎麼樣甚至你說那個只是一個觀念立法那個整個立法院的這一些警察知情勤務我們只弄一個規則那規則是在規範這些警察那不是你國會議長許有的權限\n572944\t573444\t五（五（五（五（五（五（五（五（五（五（\n595339\t616773\t警察權不能動用的理念就是因為這個警察勤務規則是沒有呼籲為院長在會場的意思的這個處理可以動用警察權到這一個會場裡面是嗎那其他的警察因為當然院長有這個權害害的這一些外面的警察我現在跟你講異常嘛不是異常的我跟你講這個幹什麼站在你後面的都是法學專家啊他們聽起來也愛笑啊\n625596\t645033\t對嗎?你國會自主 你的自主裏面 你說要歸你的警察權的一個動用當然是在議場裏面啊 那議場裏面警察怎麼可以去介入呢每一個政黨有他的預示策略的一個攻防啊 所以我們不要擔心啦議場會場概念不一樣啦 所以我要跟你講的就是說 這個都要小心啦\n646124\t662356\t就像你講的真的沒有法律授權啦但是呢又為了要等個國會自治國會自主的運作要排除其他的那個整個秩序維護整個秩序那個都是在講外部去干擾到這個議場裡面的意識運作啦其他其實齁都叫做國會自律啦阿搞不好若不修復議不可以懲戒不然這樣講\n674045\t678000\t則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則\n680725\t681945\t則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．\n708696\t734459\t這個其實大家社會大眾去講到的整個那個整個虛擬的一個教育的數量越來越多啦我們就擔心的就是這些黑錢洗到最後變白錢我們要溯源嗎我很擔心的就是說你們我聽完以後啊跟金管會以及我們這個虛擬那個這個交易所的一個合作幾乎是有沒有說是零嗎\n735930\t755394\t我們今天要審一部法律理案的叫座會要怎麼審呢?我如果一個人幫忙之後,我們跟外部的合作,那這個部分我們如何去做一個加強?儘管會是一樣啊,儘管你不能給大家都發一些行情文啊,行政指導以後,叫人家不要受騙就好啊,推動業界去自律啊,這些人就不自律了,你給人家要自律?\n757174\t773611\t現在台高姐已經跟四大虛擬貨幣交易所已經有建立平台那也預計有再繼續跟八家接洽所以我們是要跟業者要充分的合作這個我很擔心你說只到我們內部我們台灣還是不夠啦\n778915\t782039\t這個交易平台就那麼多了。你看,虛假的也那麼多了。我們現在來看的話,我們經管會裡面幾乎我每一次看到的就是投資人對你的投資的後果要自己去負責,然後對於整個幣安以外的境外的投資的一個平台。\n796318\t796458\t五﹗五﹗五﹗\n816081\t817102\t則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．\n","txt":"國會警察權的部分我希望你能夠再講清楚\n如果我沒有誤解的話,我覺得你講的是完全錯了。國會警察權規定在哪一個法律?呃,這一個法律在議員法院是有兩方面在爭辯啦。你們的認知啦,你們的認知啦。你認為國會警察權,國會議長可以行使他的警察權,法律預計是什麼?\n我再跟你講說,總要一個依據嘛。\n不是說周恩來今天幹了祕書長或者是韓國瑜幹了院長。我說沒有沒有沒有這個立法院就是我最大我是院長或祕書長我最大所以我不用跟你們講理由我為了維護秩序我在跟你講的是誰哪一部法律給你這樣的授權啊?這本來就院區的一個議場沒有本來啦要行使權利擁有權利總要法律的授權嘛\n沒錯啊沒錯你要告訴我啊哪一部法律啊整個不要整個哪一部法律\n所以說嘛所以說嘛法就是沒有這樣規定就概念就對了齁我現在不講警察情務我現在講院長的權利我在講國會警察權國會警察權不會是警察的權利警察是受命\n警察只是受命來我是在講說當你發動國會警察權的時候你現在一直在跟我說為了維護自我為什麼要為了維護秩序我是在跟你講為了維護秩序為什麼是你院長下令啦你的權利來自於哪裡啦你慢慢的講沒關係\n您不能胡說八道一通話,講得有道理就算,但不能亂講。因為這個本來今天不是這個探討這一個警察的範圍,因為這個長期裡面有一個概念在\n所以你們依據一個...所以你們依據一個...所以你們依據一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依\n為什麼我這一個以前為了這個警察人動用跟法治局一直長期不同的概念在所以法治局的概念認為家宅權主席就是為了整個一個立法院他會以家宅權的觀念可以動用警察權我個人不認為我個人不認為所以這個在探討的過程當中我要跟你講的喔是民主黨我就是說\n警察權其實國會議長沒有明文受到法律的授權他只是在講說國會議長要行政中立維護整個議事的一個進行在我們立法院裡面組織法有啦\n那立法院警察的情務的規則他當然跟你講說國會議長叫你來連總裁現在召委他都可以召喚那個我們立法院的駐警啊如果外面有人抗爭啊維持委員會的意識境他也可以啊國會警察權談的這個不是本期在講或這幾天用到的都不是這一些啦立法委員跟立法委員之間國會自主如何來運作這一塊國會自己處理\n這外面哪怕是行政院或者是警政署長跟你作案來多好,跟韓國瑜多好,他們都不能進來。他們是不能進來的喔。他有什麼要我警察接受你國會議長的指揮,哪一條?\n也沒有啊所謂的警察權是在維持秩序啦那維持秩序到底要有哪些種方式那是剛好你國會有駐警就像你講的那個只是一個概念一個法治國家為什麼沒有辦法把它做明文你知道嗎我們怕被攻擊啦任何人執政任何人在立法院多數都不敢把那個法律明文去授權\n如果立法院組織法裡面你就把它規定了國會議長他可以召喚警察來維持國會的秩序那我就跟你說法律有給你這樣授權都沒話講了我們就沒有這樣的法律啊所以我在問你說法律的授權啊趕快給秘書長沒關係這個是一個普通的概念嘛\n委員 我不想再論辯這個概念。因為中文一直要提啦。所謂的警察權的動用是我們外界所理的動用警察權是在樂會場裡面為了\n你干預到委員的職權行使這叫動用警察權的概念所以這個我們在論辯為什麼從梁世榮委員一起開始我們一直反對這個概念所以這跟法治局的羅局長完全概念的這一個不一樣所以我才你不用這麼緊張嘛我不是在跟你講不能動用警察權\n則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．\n則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．\n非立法委員去干涉到的整個立法院,比如說群眾或不相干的人,干涉到立法院的整個議事的一個運作,這個時候才有警察權。發動議事抗爭的時候,\n我還沒看到有一個終局定論每一個人都知道啊立法院應該更有秩序啊民主政治大家更應該有素質啊這個大家都知道台灣老百姓都知道但是發動議事抗爭的時候你要動用警察權我就追根究柢來問你了\n那你的權利來源來自於哪裡?\n你的權利來源來自於哪裡?\n你就說沒有嘛,你就說概念而已啊。 你就說沒有嘛,你就說概念而已啊。 你就說概念而已啊。 你就說因為過去就這樣,實在是硬的。 你就說因為過去就這樣,實在是硬的。 你就說因為過去就這樣,實在是硬的。 你不覺得因為你那個立法院的那個警務,警察的一個情務執行規則裡面,那個哪是法律?\n那不是法律欸。 你不覺得因為你那個立法院的那個警務,警察的一個情務執行規則裡面,那個哪是法律?\n那不是法律欸。\n可以啊,就是因為這一個警察請勿規則並不代表我們所說的警察權的動用所說的動用警察權的概念是在會場裡面的這一個動用警察權所以在這個涉及到對委員的實情的行使的一個干預所以我們警察權的動用是\n所以我今天要跟你講的\n我今天要跟你說兩句而已,不是要跟你吵架啦。就是說你那個法律的授權第一個沒有啦。\n沒有一條法令規定你院長國會議長授權給你說你有這個警察權所以我們就你就很迂迴的從過去怎麼樣怎麼樣然後說那個是一個慣例啊怎麼樣甚至你說那個只是一個觀念立法那個整個立法院的這一些警察知情勤務我們只弄一個規則那規則是在規範這些警察那不是你國會議長許有的權限\n五（五（五（五（五（五（五（五（五（五（\n警察權不能動用的理念就是因為這個警察勤務規則是沒有呼籲為院長在會場的意思的這個處理可以動用警察權到這一個會場裡面是嗎那其他的警察因為當然院長有這個權害害的這一些外面的警察我現在跟你講異常嘛不是異常的我跟你講這個幹什麼站在你後面的都是法學專家啊他們聽起來也愛笑啊\n對嗎?你國會自主 你的自主裏面 你說要歸你的警察權的一個動用當然是在議場裏面啊 那議場裏面警察怎麼可以去介入呢每一個政黨有他的預示策略的一個攻防啊 所以我們不要擔心啦議場會場概念不一樣啦 所以我要跟你講的就是說 這個都要小心啦\n就像你講的真的沒有法律授權啦但是呢又為了要等個國會自治國會自主的運作要排除其他的那個整個秩序維護整個秩序那個都是在講外部去干擾到這個議場裡面的意識運作啦其他其實齁都叫做國會自律啦阿搞不好若不修復議不可以懲戒不然這樣講\n則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則\n則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．\n這個其實大家社會大眾去講到的整個那個整個虛擬的一個教育的數量越來越多啦我們就擔心的就是這些黑錢洗到最後變白錢我們要溯源嗎我很擔心的就是說你們我聽完以後啊跟金管會以及我們這個虛擬那個這個交易所的一個合作幾乎是有沒有說是零嗎\n我們今天要審一部法律理案的叫座會要怎麼審呢?我如果一個人幫忙之後,我們跟外部的合作,那這個部分我們如何去做一個加強?儘管會是一樣啊,儘管你不能給大家都發一些行情文啊,行政指導以後,叫人家不要受騙就好啊,推動業界去自律啊,這些人就不自律了,你給人家要自律?\n現在台高姐已經跟四大虛擬貨幣交易所已經有建立平台那也預計有再繼續跟八家接洽所以我們是要跟業者要充分的合作這個我很擔心你說只到我們內部我們台灣還是不夠啦\n這個交易平台就那麼多了。你看,虛假的也那麼多了。我們現在來看的話,我們經管會裡面幾乎我每一次看到的就是投資人對你的投資的後果要自己去負責,然後對於整個幣安以外的境外的投資的一個平台。\n五﹗五﹗五﹗\n則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.245 --> 00:06.305\n國會警察權的部分我希望你能夠再講清楚\n\n00:33.496 --> 00:58.482\n如果我沒有誤解的話,我覺得你講的是完全錯了。國會警察權規定在哪一個法律?呃,這一個法律在議員法院是有兩方面在爭辯啦。你們的認知啦,你們的認知啦。你認為國會警察權,國會議長可以行使他的警察權,法律預計是什麼?\n\n00:58.982 --> 01:00.103\n我再跟你講說,總要一個依據嘛。\n\n01:23.914 --> 01:39.506\n不是說周恩來今天幹了祕書長或者是韓國瑜幹了院長。我說沒有沒有沒有這個立法院就是我最大我是院長或祕書長我最大所以我不用跟你們講理由我為了維護秩序我在跟你講的是誰哪一部法律給你這樣的授權啊?這本來就院區的一個議場沒有本來啦要行使權利擁有權利總要法律的授權嘛\n\n01:52.264 --> 01:59.582\n沒錯啊沒錯你要告訴我啊哪一部法律啊整個不要整個哪一部法律\n\n02:02.752 --> 02:12.537\n所以說嘛所以說嘛法就是沒有這樣規定就概念就對了齁我現在不講警察情務我現在講院長的權利我在講國會警察權國會警察權不會是警察的權利警察是受命\n\n02:24.400 --> 02:37.846\n警察只是受命來我是在講說當你發動國會警察權的時候你現在一直在跟我說為了維護自我為什麼要為了維護秩序我是在跟你講為了維護秩序為什麼是你院長下令啦你的權利來自於哪裡啦你慢慢的講沒關係\n\n02:44.570 --> 02:52.258\n您不能胡說八道一通話,講得有道理就算,但不能亂講。因為這個本來今天不是這個探討這一個警察的範圍,因為這個長期裡面有一個概念在\n\n03:02.729 --> 03:20.028\n所以你們依據一個...所以你們依據一個...所以你們依據一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依\n\n03:21.449 --> 03:39.495\n為什麼我這一個以前為了這個警察人動用跟法治局一直長期不同的概念在所以法治局的概念認為家宅權主席就是為了整個一個立法院他會以家宅權的觀念可以動用警察權我個人不認為我個人不認為所以這個在探討的過程當中我要跟你講的喔是民主黨我就是說\n\n03:45.797 --> 04:02.883\n警察權其實國會議長沒有明文受到法律的授權他只是在講說國會議長要行政中立維護整個議事的一個進行在我們立法院裡面組織法有啦\n\n04:03.783 --> 04:28.807\n那立法院警察的情務的規則他當然跟你講說國會議長叫你來連總裁現在召委他都可以召喚那個我們立法院的駐警啊如果外面有人抗爭啊維持委員會的意識境他也可以啊國會警察權談的這個不是本期在講或這幾天用到的都不是這一些啦立法委員跟立法委員之間國會自主如何來運作這一塊國會自己處理\n\n04:34.202 --> 04:44.207\n這外面哪怕是行政院或者是警政署長跟你作案來多好,跟韓國瑜多好,他們都不能進來。他們是不能進來的喔。他有什麼要我警察接受你國會議長的指揮,哪一條?\n\n04:54.571 --> 05:06.960\n也沒有啊所謂的警察權是在維持秩序啦那維持秩序到底要有哪些種方式那是剛好你國會有駐警就像你講的那個只是一個概念一個法治國家為什麼沒有辦法把它做明文你知道嗎我們怕被攻擊啦任何人執政任何人在立法院多數都不敢把那個法律明文去授權\n\n05:22.392 --> 05:32.764\n如果立法院組織法裡面你就把它規定了國會議長他可以召喚警察來維持國會的秩序那我就跟你說法律有給你這樣授權都沒話講了我們就沒有這樣的法律啊所以我在問你說法律的授權啊趕快給秘書長沒關係這個是一個普通的概念嘛\n\n05:47.317 --> 05:57.971\n委員我不想再論辯這個概念。因為中文一直要提啦。所謂的警察權的動用是我們外界所理的動用警察權是在樂會場裡面為了\n\n06:01.115 --> 06:26.390\n你干預到委員的職權行使這叫動用警察權的概念所以這個我們在論辯為什麼從梁世榮委員一起開始我們一直反對這個概念所以這跟法治局的羅局長完全概念的這一個不一樣所以我才你不用這麼緊張嘛我不是在跟你講不能動用警察權\n\n06:27.310 --> 06:28.311\n則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．\n\n06:50.009 --> 06:50.829\n則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．\n\n07:15.069 --> 07:29.185\n非立法委員去干涉到的整個立法院,比如說群眾或不相干的人,干涉到立法院的整個議事的一個運作,這個時候才有警察權。發動議事抗爭的時候,\n\n07:30.646 --> 07:48.436\n我還沒看到有一個終局定論每一個人都知道啊立法院應該更有秩序啊民主政治大家更應該有素質啊這個大家都知道台灣老百姓都知道但是發動議事抗爭的時候你要動用警察權我就追根究柢來問你了\n\n07:49.697 --> 07:50.377\n那你的權利來源來自於哪裡?\n\n07:50.377 --> 07:51.358\n你的權利來源來自於哪裡?\n\n07:51.358 --> 07:58.542\n你就說沒有嘛,你就說概念而已啊。你就說沒有嘛,你就說概念而已啊。你就說概念而已啊。你就說因為過去就這樣,實在是硬的。你就說因為過去就這樣,實在是硬的。你就說因為過去就這樣,實在是硬的。你不覺得因為你那個立法院的那個警務,警察的一個情務執行規則裡面,那個哪是法律?\n\n07:58.542 --> 08:02.464\n那不是法律欸。你不覺得因為你那個立法院的那個警務,警察的一個情務執行規則裡面,那個哪是法律?\n\n08:02.464 --> 08:02.864\n那不是法律欸。\n\n08:06.803 --> 08:33.082\n可以啊,就是因為這一個警察請勿規則並不代表我們所說的警察權的動用所說的動用警察權的概念是在會場裡面的這一個動用警察權所以在這個涉及到對委員的實情的行使的一個干預所以我們警察權的動用是\n\n08:33.402 --> 08:33.762\n所以我今天要跟你講的\n\n08:56.341 --> 08:59.043\n我今天要跟你說兩句而已,不是要跟你吵架啦。就是說你那個法律的授權第一個沒有啦。\n\n09:05.356 --> 09:30.623\n沒有一條法令規定你院長國會議長授權給你說你有這個警察權所以我們就你就很迂迴的從過去怎麼樣怎麼樣然後說那個是一個慣例啊怎麼樣甚至你說那個只是一個觀念立法那個整個立法院的這一些警察知情勤務我們只弄一個規則那規則是在規範這些警察那不是你國會議長許有的權限\n\n09:32.944 --> 09:33.444\n五（五（五（五（五（五（五（五（五（五（\n\n09:55.339 --> 10:16.773\n警察權不能動用的理念就是因為這個警察勤務規則是沒有呼籲為院長在會場的意思的這個處理可以動用警察權到這一個會場裡面是嗎那其他的警察因為當然院長有這個權害害的這一些外面的警察我現在跟你講異常嘛不是異常的我跟你講這個幹什麼站在你後面的都是法學專家啊他們聽起來也愛笑啊\n\n10:25.596 --> 10:45.033\n對嗎?你國會自主你的自主裏面你說要歸你的警察權的一個動用當然是在議場裏面啊那議場裏面警察怎麼可以去介入呢每一個政黨有他的預示策略的一個攻防啊所以我們不要擔心啦議場會場概念不一樣啦所以我要跟你講的就是說這個都要小心啦\n\n10:46.124 --> 11:02.356\n就像你講的真的沒有法律授權啦但是呢又為了要等個國會自治國會自主的運作要排除其他的那個整個秩序維護整個秩序那個都是在講外部去干擾到這個議場裡面的意識運作啦其他其實齁都叫做國會自律啦阿搞不好若不修復議不可以懲戒不然這樣講\n\n11:14.045 --> 11:18.000\n則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則\n\n11:20.725 --> 11:21.945\n則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．\n\n11:48.696 --> 12:14.459\n這個其實大家社會大眾去講到的整個那個整個虛擬的一個教育的數量越來越多啦我們就擔心的就是這些黑錢洗到最後變白錢我們要溯源嗎我很擔心的就是說你們我聽完以後啊跟金管會以及我們這個虛擬那個這個交易所的一個合作幾乎是有沒有說是零嗎\n\n12:15.930 --> 12:35.394\n我們今天要審一部法律理案的叫座會要怎麼審呢?我如果一個人幫忙之後,我們跟外部的合作,那這個部分我們如何去做一個加強?儘管會是一樣啊,儘管你不能給大家都發一些行情文啊,行政指導以後,叫人家不要受騙就好啊,推動業界去自律啊,這些人就不自律了,你給人家要自律?\n\n12:37.174 --> 12:53.611\n現在台高姐已經跟四大虛擬貨幣交易所已經有建立平台那也預計有再繼續跟八家接洽所以我們是要跟業者要充分的合作這個我很擔心你說只到我們內部我們台灣還是不夠啦\n\n12:58.915 --> 13:02.039\n這個交易平台就那麼多了。你看,虛假的也那麼多了。我們現在來看的話,我們經管會裡面幾乎我每一次看到的就是投資人對你的投資的後果要自己去負責,然後對於整個幣安以外的境外的投資的一個平台。\n\n13:16.318 --> 13:16.458\n五﹗五﹗五﹗\n\n13:36.081 --> 13:37.102\n則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.245,"end":6.305,"text":"國會警察權的部分我希望你能夠再講清楚"},{"start":33.496,"end":58.482,"text":"如果我沒有誤解的話,我覺得你講的是完全錯了。國會警察權規定在哪一個法律?呃,這一個法律在議員法院是有兩方面在爭辯啦。你們的認知啦,你們的認知啦。你認為國會警察權,國會議長可以行使他的警察權,法律預計是什麼?"},{"start":58.982,"end":60.103,"text":"我再跟你講說,總要一個依據嘛。"},{"start":83.914,"end":99.506,"text":"不是說周恩來今天幹了祕書長或者是韓國瑜幹了院長。我說沒有沒有沒有這個立法院就是我最大我是院長或祕書長我最大所以我不用跟你們講理由我為了維護秩序我在跟你講的是誰哪一部法律給你這樣的授權啊?這本來就院區的一個議場沒有本來啦要行使權利擁有權利總要法律的授權嘛"},{"start":112.264,"end":119.582,"text":"沒錯啊沒錯你要告訴我啊哪一部法律啊整個不要整個哪一部法律"},{"start":122.752,"end":132.537,"text":"所以說嘛所以說嘛法就是沒有這樣規定就概念就對了齁我現在不講警察情務我現在講院長的權利我在講國會警察權國會警察權不會是警察的權利警察是受命"},{"start":144.4,"end":157.846,"text":"警察只是受命來我是在講說當你發動國會警察權的時候你現在一直在跟我說為了維護自我為什麼要為了維護秩序我是在跟你講為了維護秩序為什麼是你院長下令啦你的權利來自於哪裡啦你慢慢的講沒關係"},{"start":164.57,"end":172.258,"text":"您不能胡說八道一通話,講得有道理就算,但不能亂講。因為這個本來今天不是這個探討這一個警察的範圍,因為這個長期裡面有一個概念在"},{"start":182.729,"end":200.028,"text":"所以你們依據一個...所以你們依據一個...所以你們依據一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依具一個...所以你們依"},{"start":201.449,"end":219.495,"text":"為什麼我這一個以前為了這個警察人動用跟法治局一直長期不同的概念在所以法治局的概念認為家宅權主席就是為了整個一個立法院他會以家宅權的觀念可以動用警察權我個人不認為我個人不認為所以這個在探討的過程當中我要跟你講的喔是民主黨我就是說"},{"start":225.797,"end":242.883,"text":"警察權其實國會議長沒有明文受到法律的授權他只是在講說國會議長要行政中立維護整個議事的一個進行在我們立法院裡面組織法有啦"},{"start":243.783,"end":268.807,"text":"那立法院警察的情務的規則他當然跟你講說國會議長叫你來連總裁現在召委他都可以召喚那個我們立法院的駐警啊如果外面有人抗爭啊維持委員會的意識境他也可以啊國會警察權談的這個不是本期在講或這幾天用到的都不是這一些啦立法委員跟立法委員之間國會自主如何來運作這一塊國會自己處理"},{"start":274.202,"end":284.207,"text":"這外面哪怕是行政院或者是警政署長跟你作案來多好,跟韓國瑜多好,他們都不能進來。他們是不能進來的喔。他有什麼要我警察接受你國會議長的指揮,哪一條?"},{"start":294.571,"end":306.96,"text":"也沒有啊所謂的警察權是在維持秩序啦那維持秩序到底要有哪些種方式那是剛好你國會有駐警就像你講的那個只是一個概念一個法治國家為什麼沒有辦法把它做明文你知道嗎我們怕被攻擊啦任何人執政任何人在立法院多數都不敢把那個法律明文去授權"},{"start":322.392,"end":332.764,"text":"如果立法院組織法裡面你就把它規定了國會議長他可以召喚警察來維持國會的秩序那我就跟你說法律有給你這樣授權都沒話講了我們就沒有這樣的法律啊所以我在問你說法律的授權啊趕快給秘書長沒關係這個是一個普通的概念嘛"},{"start":347.317,"end":357.971,"text":"委員 我不想再論辯這個概念。因為中文一直要提啦。所謂的警察權的動用是我們外界所理的動用警察權是在樂會場裡面為了"},{"start":361.115,"end":386.39,"text":"你干預到委員的職權行使這叫動用警察權的概念所以這個我們在論辯為什麼從梁世榮委員一起開始我們一直反對這個概念所以這跟法治局的羅局長完全概念的這一個不一樣所以我才你不用這麼緊張嘛我不是在跟你講不能動用警察權"},{"start":387.31,"end":388.311,"text":"則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．"},{"start":410.009,"end":410.829,"text":"則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．"},{"start":435.069,"end":449.185,"text":"非立法委員去干涉到的整個立法院,比如說群眾或不相干的人,干涉到立法院的整個議事的一個運作,這個時候才有警察權。發動議事抗爭的時候,"},{"start":450.646,"end":468.436,"text":"我還沒看到有一個終局定論每一個人都知道啊立法院應該更有秩序啊民主政治大家更應該有素質啊這個大家都知道台灣老百姓都知道但是發動議事抗爭的時候你要動用警察權我就追根究柢來問你了"},{"start":469.697,"end":470.377,"text":"那你的權利來源來自於哪裡?"},{"start":470.377,"end":471.358,"text":"你的權利來源來自於哪裡?"},{"start":471.358,"end":478.542,"text":"你就說沒有嘛,你就說概念而已啊。 你就說沒有嘛,你就說概念而已啊。 你就說概念而已啊。 你就說因為過去就這樣,實在是硬的。 你就說因為過去就這樣,實在是硬的。 你就說因為過去就這樣,實在是硬的。 你不覺得因為你那個立法院的那個警務,警察的一個情務執行規則裡面,那個哪是法律?"},{"start":478.542,"end":482.464,"text":"那不是法律欸。 你不覺得因為你那個立法院的那個警務,警察的一個情務執行規則裡面,那個哪是法律?"},{"start":482.464,"end":482.864,"text":"那不是法律欸。"},{"start":486.803,"end":513.082,"text":"可以啊,就是因為這一個警察請勿規則並不代表我們所說的警察權的動用所說的動用警察權的概念是在會場裡面的這一個動用警察權所以在這個涉及到對委員的實情的行使的一個干預所以我們警察權的動用是"},{"start":513.402,"end":513.762,"text":"所以我今天要跟你講的"},{"start":536.341,"end":539.043,"text":"我今天要跟你說兩句而已,不是要跟你吵架啦。就是說你那個法律的授權第一個沒有啦。"},{"start":545.356,"end":570.623,"text":"沒有一條法令規定你院長國會議長授權給你說你有這個警察權所以我們就你就很迂迴的從過去怎麼樣怎麼樣然後說那個是一個慣例啊怎麼樣甚至你說那個只是一個觀念立法那個整個立法院的這一些警察知情勤務我們只弄一個規則那規則是在規範這些警察那不是你國會議長許有的權限"},{"start":572.944,"end":573.444,"text":"五（五（五（五（五（五（五（五（五（五（"},{"start":595.339,"end":616.773,"text":"警察權不能動用的理念就是因為這個警察勤務規則是沒有呼籲為院長在會場的意思的這個處理可以動用警察權到這一個會場裡面是嗎那其他的警察因為當然院長有這個權害害的這一些外面的警察我現在跟你講異常嘛不是異常的我跟你講這個幹什麼站在你後面的都是法學專家啊他們聽起來也愛笑啊"},{"start":625.596,"end":645.033,"text":"對嗎?你國會自主 你的自主裏面 你說要歸你的警察權的一個動用當然是在議場裏面啊 那議場裏面警察怎麼可以去介入呢每一個政黨有他的預示策略的一個攻防啊 所以我們不要擔心啦議場會場概念不一樣啦 所以我要跟你講的就是說 這個都要小心啦"},{"start":646.124,"end":662.356,"text":"就像你講的真的沒有法律授權啦但是呢又為了要等個國會自治國會自主的運作要排除其他的那個整個秩序維護整個秩序那個都是在講外部去干擾到這個議場裡面的意識運作啦其他其實齁都叫做國會自律啦阿搞不好若不修復議不可以懲戒不然這樣講"},{"start":674.045,"end":678,"text":"則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則"},{"start":680.725,"end":681.945,"text":"則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．"},{"start":708.696,"end":734.459,"text":"這個其實大家社會大眾去講到的整個那個整個虛擬的一個教育的數量越來越多啦我們就擔心的就是這些黑錢洗到最後變白錢我們要溯源嗎我很擔心的就是說你們我聽完以後啊跟金管會以及我們這個虛擬那個這個交易所的一個合作幾乎是有沒有說是零嗎"},{"start":735.93,"end":755.394,"text":"我們今天要審一部法律理案的叫座會要怎麼審呢?我如果一個人幫忙之後,我們跟外部的合作,那這個部分我們如何去做一個加強?儘管會是一樣啊,儘管你不能給大家都發一些行情文啊,行政指導以後,叫人家不要受騙就好啊,推動業界去自律啊,這些人就不自律了,你給人家要自律?"},{"start":757.174,"end":773.611,"text":"現在台高姐已經跟四大虛擬貨幣交易所已經有建立平台那也預計有再繼續跟八家接洽所以我們是要跟業者要充分的合作這個我很擔心你說只到我們內部我們台灣還是不夠啦"},{"start":778.915,"end":782.039,"text":"這個交易平台就那麼多了。你看,虛假的也那麼多了。我們現在來看的話,我們經管會裡面幾乎我每一次看到的就是投資人對你的投資的後果要自己去負責,然後對於整個幣安以外的境外的投資的一個平台。"},{"start":796.318,"end":796.458,"text":"五﹗五﹗五﹗"},{"start":816.081,"end":817.102,"text":"則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．"}]}}}}