{"id":152881,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152881","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d339c8d1909fa453c3784f50fb8024ca5d1368e7b3a1940ed34e896d657c5e83921d6916cc5d66935ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"萬美玲","委員發言時間":"09:59:13 - 10:13:21","影片長度":"00:14:08","會議時間":"2024-05-23T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳誠文列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家科學及技術委員會主管預算(公務預算)解凍案7案。\n【5月22日及23日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-23","duration":848,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-13"},"end_time":"2024-05-23T10:13:21+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-23T09:59:13+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":278,"blocks":[["萬委員美玲：（9時59分）謝謝召委，我們有請吳誠文主委。"],["主席：有請吳主委。"],["吳主任委員誠文：委員早。"],["萬委員美玲：主委好。主委，在賴總統的就職演說當中，我們看到他特別提到要發展AI產業，推動臺灣成為AI之島，您先前在受訪當中，本席有注意到你也說願意接任國科會主委這個位置是因為認同賴總統的政見，您也說到人工智慧是未來臺灣產業轉型、社會跟教育發展的重要關鍵，可見您心中對於臺灣的AI發展是不是已經有明確的想法了？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們的看法就是AI技術、本身的基礎研究會持續進行，這個我們一直在資助。同時，AI的應用不能只在科技領域，還要應用到其他各行各業。"],["萬委員美玲：當然。要打造臺灣成為AI之島，那麼主委就應該非常清楚且必須掌握目前臺灣產業AI化的狀況，至少現況是您必須清楚的。就您目前所知，臺灣目前產業AI化程度是怎麼樣？"],["吳主任委員誠文：還有相當的距離。"],["萬委員美玲：跟什麼還有相當的距離？"],["吳主任委員誠文：與在高科技上的應用。"],["萬委員美玲：還是跟賴總統口中的AI之島有相當的距離？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，這是我們努力的方向。"],["萬委員美玲：也是？好。根據財團法人人工智慧科技基金會所公布的2023臺灣產業AI化大調查顯示，在個人或部門內使用生成式AI工具的約有38.2%，但導入公司營運流程的只有16%。換句話說，整體臺灣企業有84%恐怕還處於AI的前期階段！本席認為主委剛剛答得很好，因為我們一定要面對問題，才有辦法把問題解決。現在看起來，如果要馬上成為AI之島，距離其實還滿大的，所以我們應該要更務實一點，也就是如果臺灣僅在半導體先進製程的利基上就要來做AI之島的話，好像有點不切實際！誠如您今天的答詢所說，除了硬體、軟體開發之外，更重要的是導入企業或民眾生活上的應用。我相信您對於智慧教育、智慧家電、醫療或交通等等，心中應該都有一個藍圖，才有可能去打造AI之島，這是您心中的想法嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：往這個方向是沒有錯。"],["萬委員美玲：往這個方向是沒有錯？您剛剛說我們臺灣產業AI化的程度離賴總統所謂的AI之島，還有滿遠的距離，您上任國科會主委後，您心裡有沒有打算用多少時間來規劃、打造AI之島？"],["吳主任委員誠文：AI在不同產業的應用有不同的難度，我們會循序漸進，以臺灣……"],["萬委員美玲：您的循序漸進，如果以短、中、長程來說，我不問您太遠的，請問您短程的目標是什麼？"],["吳主任委員誠文：短程是在未來四年內，希望能夠改善一些特定的傳統產業。"],["萬委員美玲：哪些特定的傳統產業？"],["吳主任委員誠文：包含IC設計領域與製造業的結合。再來，在其他服務業部分，我們特別重視國民健康，所以在健康照護領域上我們會先推動。"],["萬委員美玲：上個月風傳媒專訪一位臺大資工系副教授，指出現在臺灣AI發展處於落後階段，這是學者專家講的，且面臨了四個挑戰，不曉得主委知不知道這四個挑戰？我在這裡跟您說一下：第一，監管法規的制定，這點您一定知道。第二，缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫，這點過去我們在委員會提過很多次。再來，只重硬體、輕軟體，這是產業界的狀況，這點您一定也有掌握。第四，面對AI時代教育，我們到底要怎麼因應？這四個問題您有去思考過嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：有思考過。"],["萬委員美玲：覺得哪一個問題最嚴重？"],["吳主任委員誠文：都嚴重。"],["萬委員美玲：都嚴重？可解決嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：可解決。"],["萬委員美玲：誰可以來解決？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們全部的人都要一起努力。"],["萬委員美玲：都要一起努力，是不是？有把握嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：有把握。"],["萬委員美玲：很好！第一天來備詢就這麼有信心，我為你的信心覺得很振奮。但是主委，面對AI的快速發展，人類除了很興奮之外，同時我相信大家也一定都戒慎恐懼。國際上有許多專家也提出相關警告，一旦AI失控，可能對人類帶來許多威脅。所以現在各國都在研議立法對AI發展進行一些控管，但這就很兩難了。也就是說如果監管得比較嚴，可能發展上就比較沒有競爭力；但如果監管得太鬆，也可能導致失控。今年3月13日歐盟通過全球第一部人工智慧法案，內容對AI採用高度且嚴格的監管，並依照風險劃分有高額罰款，甚至有禁用規定在內，整部法看起來是比較嚴厲的。之前吳政忠主委說，臺灣不會走歐盟的路，而會朝日本、美國、英國的方向走。早上我也聽到您說，會延續吳政忠主委的作法，是這樣嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們會兩者兼顧，就是說……"],["萬委員美玲：哪兩者兼顧？"],["吳主任委員誠文：監管跟發展兩個都要兼顧，我們要照顧到……"],["萬委員美玲：很厲害耶！聽起來就是既可以有歐盟很嚴格的監管，又可以朝現在日本、美國的方向去做，請問如何做到兩者兼顧？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我舉簡單的例子說明。AI是工具，人類的工具。這就好像去買一把菜刀，而菜刀就是做菜的用途，要把它控制在範圍內，不能拿來做壞事，所以一定是兩者要兼顧。"],["萬委員美玲：主委，兩者兼顧這句話說得非常好，但絕對沒有你想的這麼簡單。如果這麼簡單，就不會歐盟採取某一項，而日本、美國、英國又另外採取某一項。如何做到兩者兼顧？我想我們拭目以待，能兩者兼顧當然是最好的。國科會在去年9月就提出AI基本法草案，只是後來先推出指引，立法上有些延宕，今天也聽您說要提早到今年10月提出。現在距離10月大概不到半年時間，你有信心可以提出來，而且是很完整，是您口中所謂可兼顧的草案嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我的規劃是這個樣子。我們一定要推出，因為AI的變化一直在變，法案推出來以後，將來還是會有新的科技進展……"],["萬委員美玲：當然！"],["吳主任委員誠文：所以一定要持續不斷去改善。"],["萬委員美玲：好，我們希望10月能夠具體看到，好不好？最後本席在這邊提醒一下，我們在AI發展上其實已經落後了，因此在研擬AI專法草案時，除了您心中已經思考到的面向之外，對於現在在開發訓練的本土AI模型亦應注意。因為AI要去蒐集，還要學習大量資料，尤其是繁體中文資料缺乏，還有著作權相關問題，我希望在考慮保護人權、產業發展之餘，以上本席所提醒的問題也希望主委能夠注意。","另外，賴總統在就職演說當中提到要發展通訊低軌衛星，帶領臺灣進軍全球的太空產業。在過去幾年，國科會編列了69.4億推動B5G低軌通訊衛星計畫，自行研發兩顆低軌通訊衛星，且其中通訊酬載的製作研發是委由工研院來進行，這個您知道嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我瞭解。"],["萬委員美玲：瞭解？很好。總經費八億多，對於當初選擇國內自行研發而沒有向國外購買，其實我們非常支持，也非常肯定，因為一方面可以增加關鍵技術的自主能力，二方面可以帶動本土衛星相關產業鏈的發展，這一點主委認同嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：認同。"],["萬委員美玲：認同？很好。據本席瞭解，原本兩顆都是由工研院來研發的通訊酬載，其中一顆已經變成向國外採購。上個月我質詢林敏聰前副主委，他回答說原本兩顆都給工研院做，但去年年底要完成的工程體變成今年才能完成，原因是因為，主委請聽：工研院經驗不足，遇到技術瓶頸，導致時程延誤，所以改弦易轍，有一顆向國外購買，是這樣嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：細節我還不知道，我可以請太空中心……"],["萬委員美玲：主委，讓我跟你講完。這是上個月在這裡，林敏聰副主委所回答的，但經過本席詳細瞭解後發現，工研院根本沒有遇到瓶頸，也不是經驗不足做不出來！而是已經做好的工程體要送到外國實驗室去測試跟驗證，卻因為疫情關係，導致外國實驗室關閉了。後來疫情過了以後，實驗室重新打開，卻因案量太大，所以大家都在排隊；因為要排隊受測，以致延誤了。根本不是國科會前副主委在這裡所說的那樣！我想請教一下，事實到底是什麼？工研院做得好好的，為什麼會講出一個根本不是事實的理由去誣陷工研院？還把其中一顆轉向國外購買？原因是什麼？"],["吳主任委員誠文：可不可允許由太空中心主任來回答？因為我……"],["萬委員美玲：所以這件事您還不明白？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我的確不瞭解，我還不瞭解。"],["萬委員美玲：可以，請說。"],["吳主任宗信：委員好，我是太空中心主任吳宗信。我們原來的計畫是兩顆B5G，第一顆確定委由工研院發展通訊酬載。照我們原來的規劃，在2025年第一顆要發射……"],["萬委員美玲：我想請教一下，你後來有一顆改向國外購買，是因為工研院的經驗不足、技術遇到瓶頸，導致時程延誤，是這樣嗎？"],["吳主任宗信：他們現在根據跟我們的……"],["萬委員美玲：對不起，我想您在這邊說的話要負責任，之前那個副主委已經不在這個位置上了，所以您今天所有的說法，我覺得要符合事實，好不好？"],["吳主任宗信：對，他們現在只能，就是原來是2025、2026，然後第一顆我們是答應給他們做，第二顆那時候沒有決定，然後現在他們2025要發射的那一顆已經確定延遲到2028。根據他們給我們的報告，就是工研院，所以已經會delay三年，然後再因為我們除了這個，我們發展上面衛星酬載的技術以外，我們同時上去也要提供國內的，因為國內有非常大的IT網通產業在做地面的設備，要做end to end的測試，所以我們為了不要讓這整個期程延宕太久，所以第二個我們是希望可以引進跟學習外國的……"],["萬委員美玲：我想你其實並沒有回答本席剛才所提出來的一個疑慮喔，因為上一次林敏聰副主委在這邊提的很清楚，是因為工研院的經驗不足嘛，然後它延宕，但是本席得到的訊息其實不是這樣，而是他們已經完成了工程體，但是因為在受測、驗證的過程當中，在國外的實驗室延誤了，所以我想這一點，一週之內必須給我一個真相，如果這個真相不是像今天所回答的，我想今天國科會必須要負責任。我們當然希望，我們所有的計畫都能夠按照期程來做，中間有了一些變化，不是不能夠調整，但是事實真相是什麼，我們是覺得應該要說清楚、講明白，這個部分主委您認同嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：好，我們一週之內給委員書面報告。"],["萬委員美玲：最好是能夠來我辦公室跟我說明，好不好？"],["吳主任委員誠文：好，我們會到委員辦公室說明。"],["萬委員美玲：剩下最後一分鐘，這個問題非常重要喔，我想我們在海外成立了第一個基地，海外基地在捷克布拉格。這個部分其實本席在委員會已經問過非常多次，現在因為4月18號我們已經確定，就是成立了嘛，但有一個最大的問題，主委不知道有沒有去注意到，也就是說，我們現在在那裡成立，總共是2億的經費，然後我們師資預計要過去10位教授，另外，我們在那邊培養50位，在當地培養50位國際生，來臺交換生50位，我們這樣就花了2億的經費，然後師資10位過去，當時我們就是在擔憂，我們花這麼多的心力，但是這一些人、這些學生，將來真的可以投入到為我們半導體所用，為我們臺灣國家所用嗎？你有沒有把握，可以把這100個學生的人才真的留在臺灣，為臺灣所用？這個目標能達成嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：委員，可以允許我請同仁，請科技辦公室……"],["萬委員美玲：我想這樣啦，因為今天我時間也到了，雖然召委人很好，沒有限定我時間，但是我想這個部分是不是一樣會後一週內，請主委要來做說明，因為您剛上任，我就不太為難您，但是我們第一個海外科技基地非常的重要，我們這個過程要怎麼走，我們預計達到的目標要怎麼做，我希望主委瞭解以後到我辦公室來詳細說明，好不好？"],["吳主任委員誠文：好，兩個議題我再跟您報告。"],["萬委員美玲：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝萬美玲委員，主委請回。","接下來請林倩綺委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":216,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-13","speakers":["林宜瑾","柯志恩","洪孟楷","葛如鈞","郭昱晴","萬美玲","林倩綺","陳秀寳","張雅琳","吳沛憶","吳春城","葉元之","羅廷瑋","陳培瑜","賴士葆","范雲","蔡易餘","楊瓊瓔","何欣純","邱志偉"],"page_start":155,"meetingDate":["2024-05-23"],"gazette_id":"1135001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135001_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳誠文列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查113年\n度中央政府總預算有關國家科學及技術委員會主管預算（公務預算）解凍案7案","agenda_id":"1135001_00003"}},"transcript":{"id":"152881","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152881","tool":"pyannote","id":"152881-pyannote"},"job_id":"an9DvOWLcvR4x1z0","queued_at":"2024-05-30 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{\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 844.705, \"end\": 844.825, \"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 844.825, \"end\": 844.965, \"score\": 0.774}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 844.965, \"end\": 845.145, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 845.145, \"end\": 845.265, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 845.265, \"end\": 845.285, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,267 --> 00:00:03,731\n主委請回我們接下來請萬美玲委員好謝謝召委我們有請吳承維主委好有請吳主委\n\n2\n00:00:23,284 --> 00:00:50,425\n主委好主委我想這個在這個賴總統的就職演說當中我們看到他特別提到要發展AI產業推動台灣成為AI之島那您先前在受訪當中本身有注意到您也說願意接任國科會主委這個位置是因為認同了賴總統的一個政見那您也說到人工智慧是未來台灣產業轉型社會跟教育發展的一個重要關鍵那可見您的心中是不是對於台灣AI發展已經有個明確的想法了\n\n3\n00:00:52,718 --> 00:01:19,537\n我們的看法就是AI的技術本身的基礎研究會持續進行我們一直在支柱同時AI的應用不能夠只去應用到科技的領域還要應用到其他各行各業當然所以主委我想要打造成為AI之島主委您應該要非常清楚要掌握目前台灣產業AI化的狀況現況您是必須要清楚的所以就您目前所知台灣目前產業AI化的程度是怎麼樣\n\n4\n00:01:22,294 --> 00:01:32,266\n還有相當的距離跟什麼還有相當的距離跟在高科技上面的應用還是跟賴總統口中的AI指導還有相當的距離\n\n5\n00:01:33,772 --> 00:01:52,983\n是,這是我們努力的方式。那我想這個根據財團法人人工智慧科技基金會他所公布的一份資料我們看到2023台灣產業AI化大調查顯示在個人或者部門內使用生成式AI工具約有38.2%但是導入公司營運流程的只有16%\n\n6\n00:02:16,157 --> 00:02:41,182\n在半導體先進製程上的利基上面我們就說我們要來做AI指導了好像有點不切實際了所以陳柔宁今天的答詢除了硬體軟體的開發之外我們要導入企業或者是民眾生活上面的應用其實非常的重要我相信您對於智慧教育、智慧家電、醫療或交通等等應該都有一個藍圖在心中才有可能去成為AI指導這是您心中的想法嗎?\n\n7\n00:02:44,569 --> 00:03:02,486\n您剛是說距離我們整個台灣產業要AI化的這個程度以及距離賴總統所謂的AI之島還有一個這個這個好像聽起來蠻遠的一個距離在那國科會您上任的你有沒有心理去打算要用多少的時間來規劃打造這個AI之島\n\n8\n00:03:07,025 --> 00:03:25,014\nAI其實在不同的產業的應用它有不同的難度那我們會循序漸進那您的循序漸進如果以短中長程來說的話不要問你太遠短程你的目標是什麼短程在未來4年內希望能夠改善特定的一些傳統產業\n\n9\n00:03:26,297 --> 00:03:45,327\n哪一些特定的傳統產業包含在IC設計領域跟我們的製造業的結合再來就是說在其他的服務業的部分我們特別重視的是國民健康所以在健康照護的領域我們也會先去推動\n\n10\n00:03:46,087 --> 00:03:50,750\n上個月我們看到風傳媒在專訪我們臺大施工系的一個副教授也指出來臺灣的AI現在處於落後的階段這學者專家講的而且面臨了四個挑戰這四個挑戰我不曉得主委您知不知道我在這裡跟您說一下第一個\n\n11\n00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:16,026\n第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整\n\n12\n00:04:33,029 --> 00:04:34,230\n但是我想主委AI快速的發展\n\n13\n00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:10,660\n議員吳誠文列席\n\n14\n00:05:58,311 --> 00:06:14,439\n我們會兩者兼顧,就是說監管跟發展,兩個都要兼顧。我們要照顧到人權。聽起來就是說,又可以有這個歐盟很嚴格的監管,又可以有日本美國現在這個的方向去做,那如何做到兩者兼顧?\n\n15\n00:06:15,639 --> 00:06:30,851\n我舉個簡單的例子啦因為AI是工具人類的工具就好像你去買一把菜刀這個菜刀就是做菜的用途你要把它控制在那個範圍那不能拿它來做壞事啊所以一定是兩者要兼顧啊\n\n16\n00:06:31,394 --> 00:06:31,614\n兩者兼顧兩者兼顧當然是最好\n\n17\n00:06:50,197 --> 00:07:11,294\n國科會其實在去年9月就提出了這個AI基本法的草案那後來變成指引在立法大家就有一些延宕那今天也聽您在講說您要把它提早到今年的10月就要把它提出來那事實上距離到10月大概半年不到的時間您有信心可以把它提出來而且是一個很完整而且是您口中所謂的可兼顧的草案嗎\n\n18\n00:07:12,386 --> 00:07:13,627\n我們希望這個10月能夠具體看到好不好\n\n19\n00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:58,379\n最後我想本席在這邊提醒一下我想我們在AI的發展上面其實已經落後了所以AI專法的草案在研擬的時候除了您心中有已經思考到的面向之外對於現在在開發訓練本土AI模型我想對於AI要去收集還有學習大量的資料尤其是凡文中文的資料的缺乏還有著作權相關的問題我希望我們在考慮保護人權產業發展之餘以上本席所提醒的希望主委也要能夠注意\n\n20\n00:07:59,119 --> 00:08:10,222\n另外再來關於我們也是一樣賴總統在就職演說當中也有提到要發展通訊低軌衛星然後帶領台灣要進軍全球的太空產業事實上過去幾年國科會編列了69.4億推動B5G低軌通訊衛星的計畫要自行研發兩顆低軌通訊衛星而當中的通訊籌載的製作研發\n\n21\n00:08:26,167 --> 00:08:49,635\n是委由工研院進行兩科製作這個您知道嗎我瞭解你瞭解很好那總經費8億多那當初去選擇我們國內自行研發而沒有向國外購買其實我們非常支持也肯定因為一方面我們可以增加這個關鍵技術的自主能力二方面我們可以帶動我們自己盆土衛星相關產業鏈的發展這一點主委認同嗎認同認同很好\n\n22\n00:08:52,256 --> 00:09:18,478\n我這個劇本其實了解原本這兩顆都是要由工研院來研發的通訊籌載其中一顆我們變成要向國外來做採購那上個月我還質詢我們這個林明聰前副主委的時候他回答說原本這兩顆就是我們都是給工研院做然後去年年底要完成的工程體變成今年才能完成那原因是因為你聽喔原因是因為工研院積怨不足遇到技術瓶頸導致時程延誤\n\n23\n00:09:20,700 --> 00:09:24,601\n所以改弦易撤然後來一棵向國外購買是這樣嗎?這個細節我還不知道我可以請太空中心主委來我跟您講完這正是上個月在這裡我們這個林明聰副主委回答的但是經過本席詳細去了解以後發現公研院根本就沒有遇到瓶頸也不是經驗不足做不出來而是他已經做好這個工程體\n\n24\n00:10:05,882 --> 00:10:18,099\n我想請教一下事實到底是什麼我們到底為什麼工研院做得好好的那我們講出一個根本不是事實的理由去誣陷工研院然後呢我們就把其中一顆去給向國外去購買原因是什麼\n\n25\n00:10:20,725 --> 00:10:37,847\n可不可以允許臺灣中心主任來回答,因為我的確不瞭解。請說。委員好,我是臺灣中心主任吳宗鑫。我想這個我們原來的計畫是B5G是兩顆,然後確定是第一顆是由委有公園發展這個通訊籌載。\n\n26\n00:10:38,948 --> 00:10:44,933\n然後照我們原來規劃是在2025第一顆要發射那個我想請教一下啦你後來一顆改向國外來購買是因為工研院的這個經驗不足技術遇到瓶頸導致是很延誤是這樣嗎他們現在的根據跟我們那個對不起我想您這邊說的話要負責任喔之前那個副主委已經不在了他已經不在這個位置上了一定不在這個位置上了所以您今天所說法我覺得要符合事實喔好不好對對對\n\n27\n00:11:06,252 --> 00:11:12,637\n因為他們現在只能就原來是2025、25、26然後第一顆我們是答應給他們做第二顆那時候沒有決定然後他們現在2025要發射那一顆現在已經確定延遲到2028根據他們跟我們的報告就是公務員委員所以已經delay會3年然後在因為我們除了這個我們發展上面衛星籌載的技術以外我們同時上去要提供國內的因為國內有非常大的IT網通產業在做地面的設備\n\n28\n00:11:34,633 --> 00:11:35,454\n主委,我想其實並沒有回答本席剛才所提出來的一個疑慮\n\n29\n00:11:49,710 --> 00:12:00,275\n因為上一次林明聰副主委在這邊提的很清楚是因為工研院的經驗不足然後他延宕但是得到的訊息其實不是這樣而是他們已經完成了工程體但是因為在授冊、驗證的過程當中在國外的實驗室去延誤了所以我想這一點一週之內必須給我一個真相如果這個真相不是像今天所回答的那我想今天國科會必須要負責任\n\n30\n00:12:19,005 --> 00:12:19,325\n一周之內給委員書面報告。\n\n31\n00:12:37,018 --> 00:12:38,519\n在海外成立的第一個基地海外基地在捷克在布拉格那這個部分\n\n32\n00:12:52,132 --> 00:12:55,755\n本席在委員會問過非常多次那現在因為4月18號我們已經確定了這是成立了有一個最大的問題主委不知道有沒有去注意到也就是說我們現在在那裡成立這個經費兩億兩億的經費然後我們師資預計要過去十位教授另外我們在那邊培養\n\n33\n00:13:11,787 --> 00:13:35,523\n五十位在當地培養五十位國際生來台交換生五十位那我們這樣花了兩億的經費然後失之十位過去當時我們就是在擔憂我們花這麼多的心力那但是這一些人這一些學生將來真的可以投入到為我們半島體所用為我們台灣國家所用嗎你有沒有把握可以把這100個學生的人才真的留在台灣為台灣所用這個目標能達成嗎\n\n34\n00:13:38,854 --> 00:14:05,285\n委員可以允許我請同仁科技...我想這樣因為今天我時間也到了雖然這個召委人很好沒有心理我時間但是我想這個部分是不是會後一樣一週內我請主委要來做說明因為您剛上任我就不太為難您但是呢我們第一個海外科技基地非常的重要我們這個過程要怎麼走那我們預計達到的目標要怎麼做那我希望主委了解以後到我辦公室來詳細說明好不好好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1267\t3731\t主委請回我們接下來請萬美玲委員好謝謝召委我們有請吳承維主委好有請吳主委\n23284\t50425\t主委好主委我想這個在這個賴總統的就職演說當中我們看到他特別提到要發展AI產業推動台灣成為AI之島那您先前在受訪當中本身有注意到您也說願意接任國科會主委這個位置是因為認同了賴總統的一個政見那您也說到人工智慧是未來台灣產業轉型社會跟教育發展的一個重要關鍵那可見您的心中是不是對於台灣AI發展已經有個明確的想法了\n52718\t79537\t我們的看法就是AI的技術本身的基礎研究會持續進行我們一直在支柱同時AI的應用不能夠只去應用到科技的領域還要應用到其他各行各業當然所以主委我想要打造成為AI之島主委您應該要非常清楚要掌握目前台灣產業AI化的狀況現況您是必須要清楚的所以就您目前所知台灣目前產業AI化的程度是怎麼樣\n82294\t92266\t還有相當的距離跟什麼還有相當的距離跟在高科技上面的應用還是跟賴總統口中的AI指導還有相當的距離\n93772\t112983\t是,這是我們努力的方式。那我想這個根據財團法人人工智慧科技基金會他所公布的一份資料我們看到2023台灣產業AI化大調查顯示在個人或者部門內使用生成式AI工具約有38.2%但是導入公司營運流程的只有16%\n114104\t135657\t﹏﹏﹏\n136157\t161182\t在半導體先進製程上的利基上面我們就說我們要來做AI指導了好像有點不切實際了所以陳柔宁今天的答詢除了硬體軟體的開發之外我們要導入企業或者是民眾生活上面的應用其實非常的重要我相信您對於智慧教育、智慧家電、醫療或交通等等應該都有一個藍圖在心中才有可能去成為AI指導這是您心中的想法嗎?\n164569\t182486\t您剛是說距離我們整個台灣產業要AI化的這個程度以及距離賴總統所謂的AI之島還有一個這個這個好像聽起來蠻遠的一個距離在那國科會您上任的你有沒有心理去打算要用多少的時間來規劃打造這個AI之島\n187025\t205014\tAI其實在不同的產業的應用它有不同的難度那我們會循序漸進那您的循序漸進如果以短中長程來說的話不要問你太遠短程你的目標是什麼短程在未來4年內希望能夠改善特定的一些傳統產業\n206297\t225327\t哪一些特定的傳統產業包含在IC設計領域跟我們的製造業的結合再來就是說在其他的服務業的部分我們特別重視的是國民健康所以在健康照護的領域我們也會先去推動\n226087\t230750\t上個月我們看到風傳媒在專訪我們臺大施工系的一個副教授也指出來臺灣的AI現在處於落後的階段這學者專家講的而且面臨了四個挑戰這四個挑戰我不曉得主委您知不知道我在這裡跟您說一下第一個\n245640\t256026\t第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整\n273029\t274230\t但是我想主委AI快速的發展\n288422\t310520\t﹏﹏﹏\n310520\t310660\t議員吳誠文列席\n327551\t357551\t﹏﹏﹏\n358311\t374439\t我們會兩者兼顧,就是說 監管跟發展,兩個都要兼顧。我們要照顧到人權。 聽起來就是說,又可以有這個歐盟很嚴格的監管,又可以有日本美國現在這個的方向去做,那如何做到兩者兼顧?\n375639\t390851\t我舉個簡單的例子啦因為AI是工具人類的工具就好像你去買一把菜刀這個菜刀就是做菜的用途你要把它控制在那個範圍那不能拿它來做壞事啊所以一定是兩者要兼顧啊\n391394\t391614\t兩者兼顧兩者兼顧當然是最好\n410197\t431294\t國科會其實在去年9月就提出了這個AI基本法的草案那後來變成指引在立法大家就有一些延宕那今天也聽您在講說您要把它提早到今年的10月就要把它提出來那事實上距離到10月大概半年不到的時間您有信心可以把它提出來而且是一個很完整而且是您口中所謂的可兼顧的草案嗎\n432386\t433627\t我們希望這個10月能夠具體看到好不好\n449680\t478379\t最後我想本席在這邊提醒一下我想我們在AI的發展上面其實已經落後了所以AI專法的草案在研擬的時候除了您心中有已經思考到的面向之外對於現在在開發訓練本土AI模型我想對於AI要去收集還有學習大量的資料尤其是凡文中文的資料的缺乏還有著作權相關的問題我希望我們在考慮保護人權產業發展之餘以上本席所提醒的希望主委也要能夠注意\n479119\t490222\t另外再來關於我們也是一樣賴總統在就職演說當中也有提到要發展通訊低軌衛星然後帶領台灣要進軍全球的太空產業事實上過去幾年國科會編列了69.4億推動B5G低軌通訊衛星的計畫要自行研發兩顆低軌通訊衛星而當中的通訊籌載的製作研發\n506167\t529635\t是委由工研院進行兩科製作這個您知道嗎我瞭解你瞭解很好那總經費8億多那當初去選擇我們國內自行研發而沒有向國外購買其實我們非常支持也肯定因為一方面我們可以增加這個關鍵技術的自主能力二方面我們可以帶動我們自己盆土衛星相關產業鏈的發展這一點主委認同嗎認同認同很好\n532256\t558478\t我這個劇本其實了解原本這兩顆都是要由工研院來研發的通訊籌載其中一顆我們變成要向國外來做採購那上個月我還質詢我們這個林明聰前副主委的時候他回答說原本這兩顆就是我們都是給工研院做然後去年年底要完成的工程體變成今年才能完成那原因是因為你聽喔原因是因為工研院積怨不足遇到技術瓶頸導致時程延誤\n560700\t564601\t所以改弦易撤然後來一棵向國外購買是這樣嗎?這個細節我還不知道我可以請太空中心主委來我跟您講完這正是上個月在這裡我們這個林明聰副主委回答的但是經過本席詳細去了解以後發現公研院根本就沒有遇到瓶頸也不是經驗不足做不出來而是他已經做好這個工程體\n585589\t605742\t﹏﹏﹏\n605882\t618099\t我想請教一下事實到底是什麼我們到底為什麼工研院做得好好的那我們講出一個根本不是事實的理由去誣陷工研院然後呢我們就把其中一顆去給向國外去購買原因是什麼\n620725\t637847\t可不可以允許臺灣中心主任來回答,因為我的確不瞭解。請說。委員好,我是臺灣中心主任吳宗鑫。我想這個我們原來的計畫是B5G是兩顆,然後確定是第一顆是由委有公園發展這個通訊籌載。\n638948\t644933\t然後照我們原來規劃是在2025第一顆要發射那個我想請教一下啦你後來一顆改向國外來購買是因為工研院的這個經驗不足技術遇到瓶頸導致是很延誤是這樣嗎他們現在的根據跟我們那個對不起我想您這邊說的話要負責任喔之前那個副主委已經不在了他已經不在這個位置上了一定不在這個位置上了所以您今天所說法我覺得要符合事實喔好不好對對對\n666252\t672637\t因為他們現在只能就原來是2025、25、26然後第一顆我們是答應給他們做第二顆那時候沒有決定然後他們現在2025要發射那一顆現在已經確定延遲到2028根據他們跟我們的報告就是公務員委員所以已經delay會3年然後在因為我們除了這個我們發展上面衛星籌載的技術以外我們同時上去要提供國內的因為國內有非常大的IT網通產業在做地面的設備\n694633\t695454\t主委,我想其實並沒有回答本席剛才所提出來的一個疑慮\n709710\t720275\t因為上一次林明聰副主委在這邊提的很清楚是因為工研院的經驗不足然後他延宕但是得到的訊息其實不是這樣而是他們已經完成了工程體但是因為在授冊、驗證的過程當中在國外的實驗室去延誤了所以我想這一點一週之內必須給我一個真相如果這個真相不是像今天所回答的那我想今天國科會必須要負責任\n739005\t739325\t一周之內給委員書面報告。\n757018\t758519\t在海外成立的第一個基地海外基地在捷克在布拉格那這個部分\n772132\t775755\t本席在委員會問過非常多次那現在因為4月18號我們已經確定了這是成立了有一個最大的問題主委不知道有沒有去注意到也就是說我們現在在那裡成立這個經費兩億兩億的經費然後我們師資預計要過去十位教授另外我們在那邊培養\n791787\t815523\t五十位在當地培養五十位國際生來台交換生五十位那我們這樣花了兩億的經費然後失之十位過去當時我們就是在擔憂我們花這麼多的心力那但是這一些人這一些學生將來真的可以投入到為我們半島體所用為我們台灣國家所用嗎你有沒有把握可以把這100個學生的人才真的留在台灣為台灣所用這個目標能達成嗎\n818854\t845285\t委員可以允許我請同仁科技...我想這樣因為今天我時間也到了雖然這個召委人很好沒有心理我時間但是我想這個部分是不是會後一樣一週內我請主委要來做說明因為您剛上任我就不太為難您但是呢我們第一個海外科技基地非常的重要我們這個過程要怎麼走那我們預計達到的目標要怎麼做那我希望主委了解以後到我辦公室來詳細說明好不好好謝謝\n","txt":"主委請回我們接下來請萬美玲委員好謝謝召委我們有請吳承維主委好有請吳主委\n主委好主委我想這個在這個賴總統的就職演說當中我們看到他特別提到要發展AI產業推動台灣成為AI之島那您先前在受訪當中本身有注意到您也說願意接任國科會主委這個位置是因為認同了賴總統的一個政見那您也說到人工智慧是未來台灣產業轉型社會跟教育發展的一個重要關鍵那可見您的心中是不是對於台灣AI發展已經有個明確的想法了\n我們的看法就是AI的技術本身的基礎研究會持續進行我們一直在支柱同時AI的應用不能夠只去應用到科技的領域還要應用到其他各行各業當然所以主委我想要打造成為AI之島主委您應該要非常清楚要掌握目前台灣產業AI化的狀況現況您是必須要清楚的所以就您目前所知台灣目前產業AI化的程度是怎麼樣\n還有相當的距離跟什麼還有相當的距離跟在高科技上面的應用還是跟賴總統口中的AI指導還有相當的距離\n是,這是我們努力的方式。那我想這個根據財團法人人工智慧科技基金會他所公布的一份資料我們看到2023台灣產業AI化大調查顯示在個人或者部門內使用生成式AI工具約有38.2%但是導入公司營運流程的只有16%\n﹏﹏﹏\n在半導體先進製程上的利基上面我們就說我們要來做AI指導了好像有點不切實際了所以陳柔宁今天的答詢除了硬體軟體的開發之外我們要導入企業或者是民眾生活上面的應用其實非常的重要我相信您對於智慧教育、智慧家電、醫療或交通等等應該都有一個藍圖在心中才有可能去成為AI指導這是您心中的想法嗎?\n您剛是說距離我們整個台灣產業要AI化的這個程度以及距離賴總統所謂的AI之島還有一個這個這個好像聽起來蠻遠的一個距離在那國科會您上任的你有沒有心理去打算要用多少的時間來規劃打造這個AI之島\nAI其實在不同的產業的應用它有不同的難度那我們會循序漸進那您的循序漸進如果以短中長程來說的話不要問你太遠短程你的目標是什麼短程在未來4年內希望能夠改善特定的一些傳統產業\n哪一些特定的傳統產業包含在IC設計領域跟我們的製造業的結合再來就是說在其他的服務業的部分我們特別重視的是國民健康所以在健康照護的領域我們也會先去推動\n上個月我們看到風傳媒在專訪我們臺大施工系的一個副教授也指出來臺灣的AI現在處於落後的階段這學者專家講的而且面臨了四個挑戰這四個挑戰我不曉得主委您知不知道我在這裡跟您說一下第一個\n第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整\n但是我想主委AI快速的發展\n﹏﹏﹏\n議員吳誠文列席\n﹏﹏﹏\n我們會兩者兼顧,就是說 監管跟發展,兩個都要兼顧。我們要照顧到人權。 聽起來就是說,又可以有這個歐盟很嚴格的監管,又可以有日本美國現在這個的方向去做,那如何做到兩者兼顧?\n我舉個簡單的例子啦因為AI是工具人類的工具就好像你去買一把菜刀這個菜刀就是做菜的用途你要把它控制在那個範圍那不能拿它來做壞事啊所以一定是兩者要兼顧啊\n兩者兼顧兩者兼顧當然是最好\n國科會其實在去年9月就提出了這個AI基本法的草案那後來變成指引在立法大家就有一些延宕那今天也聽您在講說您要把它提早到今年的10月就要把它提出來那事實上距離到10月大概半年不到的時間您有信心可以把它提出來而且是一個很完整而且是您口中所謂的可兼顧的草案嗎\n我們希望這個10月能夠具體看到好不好\n最後我想本席在這邊提醒一下我想我們在AI的發展上面其實已經落後了所以AI專法的草案在研擬的時候除了您心中有已經思考到的面向之外對於現在在開發訓練本土AI模型我想對於AI要去收集還有學習大量的資料尤其是凡文中文的資料的缺乏還有著作權相關的問題我希望我們在考慮保護人權產業發展之餘以上本席所提醒的希望主委也要能夠注意\n另外再來關於我們也是一樣賴總統在就職演說當中也有提到要發展通訊低軌衛星然後帶領台灣要進軍全球的太空產業事實上過去幾年國科會編列了69.4億推動B5G低軌通訊衛星的計畫要自行研發兩顆低軌通訊衛星而當中的通訊籌載的製作研發\n是委由工研院進行兩科製作這個您知道嗎我瞭解你瞭解很好那總經費8億多那當初去選擇我們國內自行研發而沒有向國外購買其實我們非常支持也肯定因為一方面我們可以增加這個關鍵技術的自主能力二方面我們可以帶動我們自己盆土衛星相關產業鏈的發展這一點主委認同嗎認同認同很好\n我這個劇本其實了解原本這兩顆都是要由工研院來研發的通訊籌載其中一顆我們變成要向國外來做採購那上個月我還質詢我們這個林明聰前副主委的時候他回答說原本這兩顆就是我們都是給工研院做然後去年年底要完成的工程體變成今年才能完成那原因是因為你聽喔原因是因為工研院積怨不足遇到技術瓶頸導致時程延誤\n所以改弦易撤然後來一棵向國外購買是這樣嗎?這個細節我還不知道我可以請太空中心主委來我跟您講完這正是上個月在這裡我們這個林明聰副主委回答的但是經過本席詳細去了解以後發現公研院根本就沒有遇到瓶頸也不是經驗不足做不出來而是他已經做好這個工程體\n﹏﹏﹏\n我想請教一下事實到底是什麼我們到底為什麼工研院做得好好的那我們講出一個根本不是事實的理由去誣陷工研院然後呢我們就把其中一顆去給向國外去購買原因是什麼\n可不可以允許臺灣中心主任來回答,因為我的確不瞭解。請說。委員好,我是臺灣中心主任吳宗鑫。我想這個我們原來的計畫是B5G是兩顆,然後確定是第一顆是由委有公園發展這個通訊籌載。\n然後照我們原來規劃是在2025第一顆要發射那個我想請教一下啦你後來一顆改向國外來購買是因為工研院的這個經驗不足技術遇到瓶頸導致是很延誤是這樣嗎他們現在的根據跟我們那個對不起我想您這邊說的話要負責任喔之前那個副主委已經不在了他已經不在這個位置上了一定不在這個位置上了所以您今天所說法我覺得要符合事實喔好不好對對對\n因為他們現在只能就原來是2025、25、26然後第一顆我們是答應給他們做第二顆那時候沒有決定然後他們現在2025要發射那一顆現在已經確定延遲到2028根據他們跟我們的報告就是公務員委員所以已經delay會3年然後在因為我們除了這個我們發展上面衛星籌載的技術以外我們同時上去要提供國內的因為國內有非常大的IT網通產業在做地面的設備\n主委,我想其實並沒有回答本席剛才所提出來的一個疑慮\n因為上一次林明聰副主委在這邊提的很清楚是因為工研院的經驗不足然後他延宕但是得到的訊息其實不是這樣而是他們已經完成了工程體但是因為在授冊、驗證的過程當中在國外的實驗室去延誤了所以我想這一點一週之內必須給我一個真相如果這個真相不是像今天所回答的那我想今天國科會必須要負責任\n一周之內給委員書面報告。\n在海外成立的第一個基地海外基地在捷克在布拉格那這個部分\n本席在委員會問過非常多次那現在因為4月18號我們已經確定了這是成立了有一個最大的問題主委不知道有沒有去注意到也就是說我們現在在那裡成立這個經費兩億兩億的經費然後我們師資預計要過去十位教授另外我們在那邊培養\n五十位在當地培養五十位國際生來台交換生五十位那我們這樣花了兩億的經費然後失之十位過去當時我們就是在擔憂我們花這麼多的心力那但是這一些人這一些學生將來真的可以投入到為我們半島體所用為我們台灣國家所用嗎你有沒有把握可以把這100個學生的人才真的留在台灣為台灣所用這個目標能達成嗎\n委員可以允許我請同仁科技...我想這樣因為今天我時間也到了雖然這個召委人很好沒有心理我時間但是我想這個部分是不是會後一樣一週內我請主委要來做說明因為您剛上任我就不太為難您但是呢我們第一個海外科技基地非常的重要我們這個過程要怎麼走那我們預計達到的目標要怎麼做那我希望主委了解以後到我辦公室來詳細說明好不好好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.267 --> 00:03.731\n主委請回我們接下來請萬美玲委員好謝謝召委我們有請吳承維主委好有請吳主委\n\n00:23.284 --> 00:50.425\n主委好主委我想這個在這個賴總統的就職演說當中我們看到他特別提到要發展AI產業推動台灣成為AI之島那您先前在受訪當中本身有注意到您也說願意接任國科會主委這個位置是因為認同了賴總統的一個政見那您也說到人工智慧是未來台灣產業轉型社會跟教育發展的一個重要關鍵那可見您的心中是不是對於台灣AI發展已經有個明確的想法了\n\n00:52.718 --> 01:19.537\n我們的看法就是AI的技術本身的基礎研究會持續進行我們一直在支柱同時AI的應用不能夠只去應用到科技的領域還要應用到其他各行各業當然所以主委我想要打造成為AI之島主委您應該要非常清楚要掌握目前台灣產業AI化的狀況現況您是必須要清楚的所以就您目前所知台灣目前產業AI化的程度是怎麼樣\n\n01:22.294 --> 01:32.266\n還有相當的距離跟什麼還有相當的距離跟在高科技上面的應用還是跟賴總統口中的AI指導還有相當的距離\n\n01:33.772 --> 01:52.983\n是,這是我們努力的方式。那我想這個根據財團法人人工智慧科技基金會他所公布的一份資料我們看到2023台灣產業AI化大調查顯示在個人或者部門內使用生成式AI工具約有38.2%但是導入公司營運流程的只有16%\n\n02:16.157 --> 02:41.182\n在半導體先進製程上的利基上面我們就說我們要來做AI指導了好像有點不切實際了所以陳柔宁今天的答詢除了硬體軟體的開發之外我們要導入企業或者是民眾生活上面的應用其實非常的重要我相信您對於智慧教育、智慧家電、醫療或交通等等應該都有一個藍圖在心中才有可能去成為AI指導這是您心中的想法嗎?\n\n02:44.569 --> 03:02.486\n您剛是說距離我們整個台灣產業要AI化的這個程度以及距離賴總統所謂的AI之島還有一個這個這個好像聽起來蠻遠的一個距離在那國科會您上任的你有沒有心理去打算要用多少的時間來規劃打造這個AI之島\n\n03:07.025 --> 03:25.014\nAI其實在不同的產業的應用它有不同的難度那我們會循序漸進那您的循序漸進如果以短中長程來說的話不要問你太遠短程你的目標是什麼短程在未來4年內希望能夠改善特定的一些傳統產業\n\n03:26.297 --> 03:45.327\n哪一些特定的傳統產業包含在IC設計領域跟我們的製造業的結合再來就是說在其他的服務業的部分我們特別重視的是國民健康所以在健康照護的領域我們也會先去推動\n\n03:46.087 --> 03:50.750\n上個月我們看到風傳媒在專訪我們臺大施工系的一個副教授也指出來臺灣的AI現在處於落後的階段這學者專家講的而且面臨了四個挑戰這四個挑戰我不曉得主委您知不知道我在這裡跟您說一下第一個\n\n04:05.640 --> 04:16.026\n第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整\n\n04:33.029 --> 04:34.230\n但是我想主委AI快速的發展\n\n05:10.520 --> 05:10.660\n議員吳誠文列席\n\n05:58.311 --> 06:14.439\n我們會兩者兼顧,就是說監管跟發展,兩個都要兼顧。我們要照顧到人權。聽起來就是說,又可以有這個歐盟很嚴格的監管,又可以有日本美國現在這個的方向去做,那如何做到兩者兼顧?\n\n06:15.639 --> 06:30.851\n我舉個簡單的例子啦因為AI是工具人類的工具就好像你去買一把菜刀這個菜刀就是做菜的用途你要把它控制在那個範圍那不能拿它來做壞事啊所以一定是兩者要兼顧啊\n\n06:31.394 --> 06:31.614\n兩者兼顧兩者兼顧當然是最好\n\n06:50.197 --> 07:11.294\n國科會其實在去年9月就提出了這個AI基本法的草案那後來變成指引在立法大家就有一些延宕那今天也聽您在講說您要把它提早到今年的10月就要把它提出來那事實上距離到10月大概半年不到的時間您有信心可以把它提出來而且是一個很完整而且是您口中所謂的可兼顧的草案嗎\n\n07:12.386 --> 07:13.627\n我們希望這個10月能夠具體看到好不好\n\n07:29.680 --> 07:58.379\n最後我想本席在這邊提醒一下我想我們在AI的發展上面其實已經落後了所以AI專法的草案在研擬的時候除了您心中有已經思考到的面向之外對於現在在開發訓練本土AI模型我想對於AI要去收集還有學習大量的資料尤其是凡文中文的資料的缺乏還有著作權相關的問題我希望我們在考慮保護人權產業發展之餘以上本席所提醒的希望主委也要能夠注意\n\n07:59.119 --> 08:10.222\n另外再來關於我們也是一樣賴總統在就職演說當中也有提到要發展通訊低軌衛星然後帶領台灣要進軍全球的太空產業事實上過去幾年國科會編列了69.4億推動B5G低軌通訊衛星的計畫要自行研發兩顆低軌通訊衛星而當中的通訊籌載的製作研發\n\n08:26.167 --> 08:49.635\n是委由工研院進行兩科製作這個您知道嗎我瞭解你瞭解很好那總經費8億多那當初去選擇我們國內自行研發而沒有向國外購買其實我們非常支持也肯定因為一方面我們可以增加這個關鍵技術的自主能力二方面我們可以帶動我們自己盆土衛星相關產業鏈的發展這一點主委認同嗎認同認同很好\n\n08:52.256 --> 09:18.478\n我這個劇本其實了解原本這兩顆都是要由工研院來研發的通訊籌載其中一顆我們變成要向國外來做採購那上個月我還質詢我們這個林明聰前副主委的時候他回答說原本這兩顆就是我們都是給工研院做然後去年年底要完成的工程體變成今年才能完成那原因是因為你聽喔原因是因為工研院積怨不足遇到技術瓶頸導致時程延誤\n\n09:20.700 --> 09:24.601\n所以改弦易撤然後來一棵向國外購買是這樣嗎?這個細節我還不知道我可以請太空中心主委來我跟您講完這正是上個月在這裡我們這個林明聰副主委回答的但是經過本席詳細去了解以後發現公研院根本就沒有遇到瓶頸也不是經驗不足做不出來而是他已經做好這個工程體\n\n10:05.882 --> 10:18.099\n我想請教一下事實到底是什麼我們到底為什麼工研院做得好好的那我們講出一個根本不是事實的理由去誣陷工研院然後呢我們就把其中一顆去給向國外去購買原因是什麼\n\n10:20.725 --> 10:37.847\n可不可以允許臺灣中心主任來回答,因為我的確不瞭解。請說。委員好,我是臺灣中心主任吳宗鑫。我想這個我們原來的計畫是B5G是兩顆,然後確定是第一顆是由委有公園發展這個通訊籌載。\n\n10:38.948 --> 10:44.933\n然後照我們原來規劃是在2025第一顆要發射那個我想請教一下啦你後來一顆改向國外來購買是因為工研院的這個經驗不足技術遇到瓶頸導致是很延誤是這樣嗎他們現在的根據跟我們那個對不起我想您這邊說的話要負責任喔之前那個副主委已經不在了他已經不在這個位置上了一定不在這個位置上了所以您今天所說法我覺得要符合事實喔好不好對對對\n\n11:06.252 --> 11:12.637\n因為他們現在只能就原來是2025、25、26然後第一顆我們是答應給他們做第二顆那時候沒有決定然後他們現在2025要發射那一顆現在已經確定延遲到2028根據他們跟我們的報告就是公務員委員所以已經delay會3年然後在因為我們除了這個我們發展上面衛星籌載的技術以外我們同時上去要提供國內的因為國內有非常大的IT網通產業在做地面的設備\n\n11:34.633 --> 11:35.454\n主委,我想其實並沒有回答本席剛才所提出來的一個疑慮\n\n11:49.710 --> 12:00.275\n因為上一次林明聰副主委在這邊提的很清楚是因為工研院的經驗不足然後他延宕但是得到的訊息其實不是這樣而是他們已經完成了工程體但是因為在授冊、驗證的過程當中在國外的實驗室去延誤了所以我想這一點一週之內必須給我一個真相如果這個真相不是像今天所回答的那我想今天國科會必須要負責任\n\n12:19.005 --> 12:19.325\n一周之內給委員書面報告。\n\n12:37.018 --> 12:38.519\n在海外成立的第一個基地海外基地在捷克在布拉格那這個部分\n\n12:52.132 --> 12:55.755\n本席在委員會問過非常多次那現在因為4月18號我們已經確定了這是成立了有一個最大的問題主委不知道有沒有去注意到也就是說我們現在在那裡成立這個經費兩億兩億的經費然後我們師資預計要過去十位教授另外我們在那邊培養\n\n13:11.787 --> 13:35.523\n五十位在當地培養五十位國際生來台交換生五十位那我們這樣花了兩億的經費然後失之十位過去當時我們就是在擔憂我們花這麼多的心力那但是這一些人這一些學生將來真的可以投入到為我們半島體所用為我們台灣國家所用嗎你有沒有把握可以把這100個學生的人才真的留在台灣為台灣所用這個目標能達成嗎\n\n13:38.854 --> 14:05.285\n委員可以允許我請同仁科技...我想這樣因為今天我時間也到了雖然這個召委人很好沒有心理我時間但是我想這個部分是不是會後一樣一週內我請主委要來做說明因為您剛上任我就不太為難您但是呢我們第一個海外科技基地非常的重要我們這個過程要怎麼走那我們預計達到的目標要怎麼做那我希望主委了解以後到我辦公室來詳細說明好不好好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.267,"end":3.731,"text":"主委請回我們接下來請萬美玲委員好謝謝召委我們有請吳承維主委好有請吳主委"},{"start":23.284,"end":50.425,"text":"主委好主委我想這個在這個賴總統的就職演說當中我們看到他特別提到要發展AI產業推動台灣成為AI之島那您先前在受訪當中本身有注意到您也說願意接任國科會主委這個位置是因為認同了賴總統的一個政見那您也說到人工智慧是未來台灣產業轉型社會跟教育發展的一個重要關鍵那可見您的心中是不是對於台灣AI發展已經有個明確的想法了"},{"start":52.718,"end":79.537,"text":"我們的看法就是AI的技術本身的基礎研究會持續進行我們一直在支柱同時AI的應用不能夠只去應用到科技的領域還要應用到其他各行各業當然所以主委我想要打造成為AI之島主委您應該要非常清楚要掌握目前台灣產業AI化的狀況現況您是必須要清楚的所以就您目前所知台灣目前產業AI化的程度是怎麼樣"},{"start":82.294,"end":92.266,"text":"還有相當的距離跟什麼還有相當的距離跟在高科技上面的應用還是跟賴總統口中的AI指導還有相當的距離"},{"start":93.772,"end":112.983,"text":"是,這是我們努力的方式。那我想這個根據財團法人人工智慧科技基金會他所公布的一份資料我們看到2023台灣產業AI化大調查顯示在個人或者部門內使用生成式AI工具約有38.2%但是導入公司營運流程的只有16%"},{"start":114.104,"end":135.657,"text":" ﹏﹏﹏"},{"start":136.157,"end":161.182,"text":"在半導體先進製程上的利基上面我們就說我們要來做AI指導了好像有點不切實際了所以陳柔宁今天的答詢除了硬體軟體的開發之外我們要導入企業或者是民眾生活上面的應用其實非常的重要我相信您對於智慧教育、智慧家電、醫療或交通等等應該都有一個藍圖在心中才有可能去成為AI指導這是您心中的想法嗎?"},{"start":164.569,"end":182.486,"text":"您剛是說距離我們整個台灣產業要AI化的這個程度以及距離賴總統所謂的AI之島還有一個這個這個好像聽起來蠻遠的一個距離在那國科會您上任的你有沒有心理去打算要用多少的時間來規劃打造這個AI之島"},{"start":187.025,"end":205.014,"text":" AI其實在不同的產業的應用它有不同的難度那我們會循序漸進那您的循序漸進如果以短中長程來說的話不要問你太遠短程你的目標是什麼短程在未來4年內希望能夠改善特定的一些傳統產業"},{"start":206.297,"end":225.327,"text":"哪一些特定的傳統產業包含在IC設計領域跟我們的製造業的結合再來就是說在其他的服務業的部分我們特別重視的是國民健康所以在健康照護的領域我們也會先去推動"},{"start":226.087,"end":230.75,"text":"上個月我們看到風傳媒在專訪我們臺大施工系的一個副教授也指出來臺灣的AI現在處於落後的階段這學者專家講的而且面臨了四個挑戰這四個挑戰我不曉得主委您知不知道我在這裡跟您說一下第一個"},{"start":245.64,"end":256.026,"text":"第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫第二、缺乏完整"},{"start":273.029,"end":274.23,"text":"但是我想主委AI快速的發展"},{"start":288.422,"end":310.52,"text":" ﹏﹏﹏"},{"start":310.52,"end":310.66,"text":"議員吳誠文列席"},{"start":327.551,"end":357.551,"text":" ﹏﹏﹏"},{"start":358.311,"end":374.439,"text":"我們會兩者兼顧,就是說 監管跟發展,兩個都要兼顧。我們要照顧到人權。 聽起來就是說,又可以有這個歐盟很嚴格的監管,又可以有日本美國現在這個的方向去做,那如何做到兩者兼顧?"},{"start":375.639,"end":390.851,"text":"我舉個簡單的例子啦因為AI是工具人類的工具就好像你去買一把菜刀這個菜刀就是做菜的用途你要把它控制在那個範圍那不能拿它來做壞事啊所以一定是兩者要兼顧啊"},{"start":391.394,"end":391.614,"text":"兩者兼顧兩者兼顧當然是最好"},{"start":410.197,"end":431.294,"text":"國科會其實在去年9月就提出了這個AI基本法的草案那後來變成指引在立法大家就有一些延宕那今天也聽您在講說您要把它提早到今年的10月就要把它提出來那事實上距離到10月大概半年不到的時間您有信心可以把它提出來而且是一個很完整而且是您口中所謂的可兼顧的草案嗎"},{"start":432.386,"end":433.627,"text":"我們希望這個10月能夠具體看到好不好"},{"start":449.68,"end":478.379,"text":"最後我想本席在這邊提醒一下我想我們在AI的發展上面其實已經落後了所以AI專法的草案在研擬的時候除了您心中有已經思考到的面向之外對於現在在開發訓練本土AI模型我想對於AI要去收集還有學習大量的資料尤其是凡文中文的資料的缺乏還有著作權相關的問題我希望我們在考慮保護人權產業發展之餘以上本席所提醒的希望主委也要能夠注意"},{"start":479.119,"end":490.222,"text":"另外再來關於我們也是一樣賴總統在就職演說當中也有提到要發展通訊低軌衛星然後帶領台灣要進軍全球的太空產業事實上過去幾年國科會編列了69.4億推動B5G低軌通訊衛星的計畫要自行研發兩顆低軌通訊衛星而當中的通訊籌載的製作研發"},{"start":506.167,"end":529.635,"text":"是委由工研院進行兩科製作這個您知道嗎我瞭解你瞭解很好那總經費8億多那當初去選擇我們國內自行研發而沒有向國外購買其實我們非常支持也肯定因為一方面我們可以增加這個關鍵技術的自主能力二方面我們可以帶動我們自己盆土衛星相關產業鏈的發展這一點主委認同嗎認同認同很好"},{"start":532.256,"end":558.478,"text":"我這個劇本其實了解原本這兩顆都是要由工研院來研發的通訊籌載其中一顆我們變成要向國外來做採購那上個月我還質詢我們這個林明聰前副主委的時候他回答說原本這兩顆就是我們都是給工研院做然後去年年底要完成的工程體變成今年才能完成那原因是因為你聽喔原因是因為工研院積怨不足遇到技術瓶頸導致時程延誤"},{"start":560.7,"end":564.601,"text":"所以改弦易撤然後來一棵向國外購買是這樣嗎?這個細節我還不知道我可以請太空中心主委來我跟您講完這正是上個月在這裡我們這個林明聰副主委回答的但是經過本席詳細去了解以後發現公研院根本就沒有遇到瓶頸也不是經驗不足做不出來而是他已經做好這個工程體"},{"start":585.589,"end":605.742,"text":" ﹏﹏﹏"},{"start":605.882,"end":618.099,"text":"我想請教一下事實到底是什麼我們到底為什麼工研院做得好好的那我們講出一個根本不是事實的理由去誣陷工研院然後呢我們就把其中一顆去給向國外去購買原因是什麼"},{"start":620.725,"end":637.847,"text":"可不可以允許臺灣中心主任來回答,因為我的確不瞭解。請說。委員好,我是臺灣中心主任吳宗鑫。我想這個我們原來的計畫是B5G是兩顆,然後確定是第一顆是由委有公園發展這個通訊籌載。"},{"start":638.948,"end":644.933,"text":"然後照我們原來規劃是在2025第一顆要發射那個我想請教一下啦你後來一顆改向國外來購買是因為工研院的這個經驗不足技術遇到瓶頸導致是很延誤是這樣嗎他們現在的根據跟我們那個對不起我想您這邊說的話要負責任喔之前那個副主委已經不在了他已經不在這個位置上了一定不在這個位置上了所以您今天所說法我覺得要符合事實喔好不好對對對"},{"start":666.252,"end":672.637,"text":"因為他們現在只能就原來是2025、25、26然後第一顆我們是答應給他們做第二顆那時候沒有決定然後他們現在2025要發射那一顆現在已經確定延遲到2028根據他們跟我們的報告就是公務員委員所以已經delay會3年然後在因為我們除了這個我們發展上面衛星籌載的技術以外我們同時上去要提供國內的因為國內有非常大的IT網通產業在做地面的設備"},{"start":694.633,"end":695.454,"text":"主委,我想其實並沒有回答本席剛才所提出來的一個疑慮"},{"start":709.71,"end":720.275,"text":"因為上一次林明聰副主委在這邊提的很清楚是因為工研院的經驗不足然後他延宕但是得到的訊息其實不是這樣而是他們已經完成了工程體但是因為在授冊、驗證的過程當中在國外的實驗室去延誤了所以我想這一點一週之內必須給我一個真相如果這個真相不是像今天所回答的那我想今天國科會必須要負責任"},{"start":739.005,"end":739.325,"text":"一周之內給委員書面報告。"},{"start":757.018,"end":758.519,"text":"在海外成立的第一個基地海外基地在捷克在布拉格那這個部分"},{"start":772.132,"end":775.755,"text":"本席在委員會問過非常多次那現在因為4月18號我們已經確定了這是成立了有一個最大的問題主委不知道有沒有去注意到也就是說我們現在在那裡成立這個經費兩億兩億的經費然後我們師資預計要過去十位教授另外我們在那邊培養"},{"start":791.787,"end":815.523,"text":"五十位在當地培養五十位國際生來台交換生五十位那我們這樣花了兩億的經費然後失之十位過去當時我們就是在擔憂我們花這麼多的心力那但是這一些人這一些學生將來真的可以投入到為我們半島體所用為我們台灣國家所用嗎你有沒有把握可以把這100個學生的人才真的留在台灣為台灣所用這個目標能達成嗎"},{"start":818.854,"end":845.285,"text":"委員可以允許我請同仁科技...我想這樣因為今天我時間也到了雖然這個召委人很好沒有心理我時間但是我想這個部分是不是會後一樣一週內我請主委要來做說明因為您剛上任我就不太為難您但是呢我們第一個海外科技基地非常的重要我們這個過程要怎麼走那我們預計達到的目標要怎麼做那我希望主委了解以後到我辦公室來詳細說明好不好好謝謝"}]}}}}