{"id":152885,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152885","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d339c8d1909fa453878fe1451b41c6dc9f2fcaa3dc194f73d34e896d657c5e839c16ffa9df325e205ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"涂權吉","委員發言時間":"10:16:33 - 10:28:05","影片長度":"00:11:32","會議時間":"2024-05-23T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【5月22日、23日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-23","duration":692,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第17次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":17,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-17"},"end_time":"2024-05-23T10:28:05+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-23T10:16:33+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":541,"blocks":[["涂委員權吉：（10時16分）謝謝主席，請我們何部長。"],["主席：請何部長。"],["何部長佩珊：委員好。"],["涂委員權吉：何部長，恭喜你來接任我們的勞動部長。"],["何部長佩珊：謝謝。"],["涂委員權吉：我想請問一下何部長，過去8年來我們蔡政府針對基本工資有不斷的調漲，我想請問一下，尤其近5年的調漲，我們基本工資調漲的目的是什麼？我想請問一下何部長，你覺得基本工資調漲的目的是什麼？"],["何部長佩珊：當然是為了保障勞工的權益。"],["涂委員權吉：對，是不是也有一部分是希望能夠帶動我們勞工整體的薪資？"],["何部長佩珊：當然，它會有定錨的效果，會有指標作用。"],["涂委員權吉：我們也看一下，因為我們基本工資年年上漲，可是據我們看到，這5年來我們的實質薪資沒有成長、停滯不前，甚至有些還是倒退的，你看我們近五年，從108年到112年這5年基本工資的調漲，但是近五年我們的實質經常性薪資，尤其從110年到112年是「倒退嚕」的，也就是說，這3年我們物價的上漲、通貨膨脹大於薪資的調漲，針對這部分，之前我們許銘春部長曾說基本薪資的調漲就是希望能夠帶動基本上我們邊際勞工的收入，但是有很多勞工朋友跟我們講，這個基本工資的調漲其實都沒有漲到他們，他說因為基本工資調漲都是漲最低的，像這十幾年來，他們不是領最低的基本薪資，他說其實這個調漲都沒有實質上調漲到他們，所以也難怪我們看得到這個實質經常性薪資不但沒有成長，而是後退的，何部長是新上任，不知道你對這部分有什麼看法？有沒有解決的方法？"],["何部長佩珊：跟委員報告，有兩點，第一點，確實漲基本工資未必能漲到基本工資以上的那一群人，這是事實，那麼那個部分我們要動用其他的政策工具，我們現在有進行中小企業加薪抵稅的條例的修法，把那個抵稅的門檻放寬，啟動的門檻也放寬，相信這樣可以帶動企業願意再替基本工資以上的員工加薪，這是第一點。","第二點，這個有通膨的因素啦！所謂的實質經常性薪資，因為這個通膨的因素是跨部會的問題，當然主要還有包括新臺幣可能有貶值的問題等等各方面，還有包括國際的因素等等，這部分勞動部會比較沒有辦法用單一部會來解決，可是我會想辦法來向行政院反映，好嗎？"],["涂委員權吉：好，因為今天會提出這部分，就是有很多的勞工朋友他說最低基本工資怎麼調漲，尤其蔡政府這8年來的調漲，他說其實他們是毫無感受啦！因為都是調最低的，不要說8年，這10幾年來他們都沒有調到薪水，所以我們從實質薪資就看得到，因為他們沒有調漲，所以通貨的膨脹造成他實質的薪資不但沒有提升，反而是後退。我們看到這8年來，好像蔡政府對於基本工資一直調漲，好像薪水一直在調，但是都是調最低的，反而大部分的、沒有領基本工資的，他們都沒有調漲，所以每年、每年的物價上漲、通貨膨脹就變成說看得到實質薪資是倒退的。所以這部分會提出，也希望何部長能夠重視這10幾年來很多人薪水都沒有調漲的問題，希望何部長能夠以勞動部大家長的立場來幫我們來瞭解，希望有機會能夠幫他們研議怎麼去解決這個問題。"],["何部長佩珊：好。"],["涂委員權吉：針對第二項，我們也知道何部長是野百合世代、社會運動、工運、農運出身，所以我相信說，對於工會這些組織的部分，我認為何部長應該也都是非常關心，那我想請問一下，針對工會的組織門檻，有很多的勞工跟我們來反映，因為臺灣是以中小企業為主，有98%的企業僱用的人數不到30人，所以算起來有343萬受僱的勞工並沒有機會來組織工會，甚至連中央銀行都贊成降低門檻，連我們立法院的法制局也認為30人的門檻對於中小企業組織工會的權利是受限制的，不知道何部長針對這一部分的看法是怎麼樣？"],["何部長佩珊：跟委員報告，其實許部長他的這個談話是反映臺灣社會的現實，我們的中小企業真的占了臺灣產業的98%，是非常龐大的一個部門，那麼到底工會的門檻下修有沒有幫助勞工的團結權，其實這是一個問號，這真的是我們必須仔細地去分析到底有沒有用，因為事實上，他並不見得真正能夠提升勞工的團結權，事實上在30人以下的單位，他本身在團結上面會有一定程度的難度，因為他跟資方之間就是一個家庭的關係，類家庭的關係，所以你說叫他去跟資方之間用這種工會抗爭的方式，事實上也做不到。所以所謂下修30人以下是不是多數中小企業內部勞工的想法，說真的我們要去確認。"],["涂委員權吉：針對這一部分，我們之前詢問過許部長，他說降低工會門檻容易影響企業的營運，但是我們還是一直不斷接受到很多中小企業、很多勞工的陳情，他們是認為剝奪他們組織工會的權利，所以也希望何部長……我一直認為何部長也是我們社會運動出身，也希望能夠對於人數比較少的中小企業組織工會的部分，希望何部長上來以後，也能夠再重新研議，來重視一下，是不是有機會能夠幫他們爭取一些合法能夠爭取的權益？"],["何部長佩珊：我們會來研究討論。"],["涂委員權吉：好，這一部分也請何部長來重視一下。"],["何部長佩珊：謝謝。"],["涂委員權吉：去年明揚大火之後，造成4名消防人員的殉職，其實這幾年來陸陸續續都有很多很年輕、很優秀的消防員，因為救火、保護我們人民生命財產，而讓他自己的生命受到損失而罹難，針對消防員組織工會的這一部分，我請問一下何部長，請問你對消防員組織工會的態度是否支持？"],["何部長佩珊：我認為消防員還是要回歸公務人員協會法。"],["涂委員權吉：可是他們一直認為考試院的公務人員協會法這個門檻過高，而且對於他們的協商權，他們感覺都是被架空的。"],["何部長佩珊：委員，跟您報告，我們已經請考試院趕快把公務人員協會法關於協商的部分做一些放寬，這個是比較實際的處理，能有效解決消防人員的問題。"],["涂委員權吉：如果要用公務人員協會法，我們希望門檻的部分要去做調整……"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["涂委員權吉：還有他們所重視的協商權不應該被架空。"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["涂委員權吉：如果真的沒有辦法改善，我們倒認為他組織工會的方式可以比照教師，大家一直都很擔心會有勞資爭議處理的問題，我們可以像教師組工會一樣，明定他們也禁止罷工，我認為就應該可以解決這個問題。當然這部分，今天因為何部長新上來，能夠把一些我們地方民眾的聲音、勞工的聲音反映給部長知道。","還有從111年的時候，我們有正式來統計，也希望何部長重視這個問題。我們逃逸外勞的部分已經超過八萬多人了，而且這個比例我們看起來是年年增加，不知道勞動部有沒有什麼方法，何部長針對這部分，你有沒有自己的看法跟解決方法？"],["何部長佩珊：因為移工的失聯原因真的是很多啦！有勞動條件的問題，也有一般缺工的問題，可是就是說，第一個我們可能要強化家庭看護工這一塊，他的薪資有可以再提升的空間，減少他逃跑的誘因，這個是我們目前也許可以努力的方向。其次是強化職聘的服務，讓他能夠依自己的意願來進行各種這樣子的……"],["涂委員權吉：所以我一直希望勞動部針對這部分一定要來重視，因為逃逸外勞不但沒有減少，還一直在增加，所以我們擔心這以後會衍生一些治安的問題。而且現在我們覺得臺灣缺工已經非常嚴重，像內政部移民署在112年有推自首的專案，好讓一些逃逸的外勞怎麼樣子去解決他們的問題，讓他們去自首，我想說臺灣的缺工問題也都非常嚴重，也有人建議說，因為他們是專案移工，自首之後就不能再返臺來工作，我們想說勞動部跟內政部是不是有一個機會來研議，針對這個自首專案怎麼樣來推動，是不是讓這些移工也有機會能夠繼續在臺灣工作，因為這個自首專案就是自首之後，回去以後他就不能再返臺了……"],["何部長佩珊：就要遣返回去了，不能再回來。"],["涂委員權吉：因為我覺得一方面解決逃逸外勞的問題，也一方面希望能夠解決我們臺灣缺工嚴重的問題。"],["何部長佩珊：好，我跟移民署來討論好嗎？再跟委員報告。"],["涂委員權吉：對，希望部長針對這幾個議題，因為部長新上任，後面有無限揮灑的空間，我們也對何部長有很大的期待，希望以上幾個問題，部長能夠為我們這些勞工朋友、消防員爭取他們合法的權益。"],["何部長佩珊：謝謝。"],["涂委員權吉：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝涂權吉委員。","接下來請林淑芬委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":464,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-17","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","盧縣一","蘇清泉","王育敏","涂權吉","林淑芬","王正旭","鄭天財Sra 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205.011, \"text\": \"當然主要還有包括新台幣可能有貶值的問題等等各方面對還有包括國際的因素等等這部分勞動部會比較沒有辦法用單一部會來解決可是我會想辦法來向行政院反映好嗎好\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 190.155, \"end\": 190.356, \"score\": 0.785}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 190.356, \"end\": 190.476, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 190.476, \"end\": 190.736, \"score\": 0.526}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 190.736, \"end\": 190.836, \"score\": 0.419}, {\"word\": \"包\", \"start\": 190.836, \"end\": 190.976, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"括\", \"start\": 190.976, \"end\": 191.076, \"score\": 0.59}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 191.076, \"end\": 191.237, \"score\": 0.543}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 191.237, \"end\": 191.417, \"score\": 0.775}, {\"word\": \"幣\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 191.417, \"end\": 192.358, \"score\": 0.807}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 192.358, \"end\": 192.818, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 192.818, \"end\": 193.219, \"score\": 0.793}, {\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"薪\", \"start\": 226.491, \"end\": 226.991, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 226.991, \"end\": 227.212, \"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 227.212, \"end\": 227.392, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 227.392, \"end\": 227.652, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 227.652, \"end\": 227.872, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 227.872, \"end\": 228.453, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 228.453, \"end\": 228.533, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 228.533, \"end\": 228.553, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 228.553, \"end\": 228.573, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 228.573, \"end\": 228.593, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"漲\"}]}, {\"start\": 230.114, \"end\": 248.944, \"text\": 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\"考試院的公務人員協會法這個門檻過高而且對於他們的協商權他們感覺都是被架空的委員跟您報告我們已經請考試院趕快把這個公務人員協會法關於協商的部分做一些放寬這個是比較實際的處理有效解決消防員的那種問題那如果要用公務人員協會法我們希望\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 482.568, \"end\": 482.928, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"試\"}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 482.928, \"end\": 483.108, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 483.108, \"end\": 483.268, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 483.268, \"end\": 483.648, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 483.648, \"end\": 484.268, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 484.268, \"end\": 485.489, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"門\"}, {\"word\": \"檻\"}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 485.489, \"end\": 485.709, \"score\": 0.756}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 485.709, \"end\": 485.849, \"score\": 0.711}, {\"word\": \"且\", \"start\": 485.849, \"end\": 486.509, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 486.509, \"end\": 486.669, \"score\": 0.73}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 486.669, \"end\": 486.949, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 486.949, \"end\": 487.309, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"商\", \"start\": 487.309, \"end\": 487.889, \"score\": 0.814}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 487.889, \"end\": 488.169, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"感\", \"start\": 488.169, \"end\": 488.509, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 488.509, \"end\": 488.65, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 488.65, \"end\": 488.79, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"被\", \"start\": 488.79, \"end\": 489.03, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"架\", \"start\": 489.03, \"end\": 489.29, \"score\": 0.775}, {\"word\": \"空\", \"start\": 489.29, \"end\": 489.47, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 489.47, \"end\": 489.57, \"score\": 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\"是\", \"start\": 498.592, \"end\": 498.752, \"score\": 0.777}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 498.752, \"end\": 499.492, \"score\": 0.771}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"際\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 499.492, \"end\": 500.012, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 500.012, \"end\": 500.973, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 500.973, \"end\": 501.193, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"效\", \"start\": 501.193, \"end\": 501.453, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 501.453, \"end\": 501.893, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"消\", \"start\": 501.893, \"end\": 502.053, \"score\": 0.76}, {\"word\": \"防\", \"start\": 502.053, \"end\": 502.453, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 502.453, \"end\": 502.613, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 502.613, \"end\": 502.793, \"score\": 0.542}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", 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\"這個門檻的部分要去做個調整還有他們所重視的協商權不應該被架空如果真的沒有辦法改善我們倒認為他組織工會的方式可以比照教師那大家一直都很擔心會有勞資爭議處理的問題我們可以像教師組工會一樣明定就是他們也禁止罷工我認為就應該可以解決這個問題\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"門\"}, {\"word\": \"檻\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 507.455, \"end\": 507.615, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 507.615, \"end\": 507.815, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 507.815, \"end\": 508.255, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 508.255, \"end\": 508.415, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 508.415, \"end\": 508.555, \"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 508.555, \"end\": 509.156, \"score\": 0.737}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 509.156, \"end\": 509.716, \"score\": 0.778}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 509.716, \"end\": 509.857, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 509.857, \"end\": 510.257, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 510.257, \"end\": 510.517, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 510.517, \"end\": 510.978, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"視\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 510.978, \"end\": 511.398, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"商\", \"start\": 511.398, \"end\": 511.898, \"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 511.898, \"end\": 512.439, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"被\", \"start\": 512.439, \"end\": 512.639, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"架\", \"start\": 512.639, \"end\": 512.899, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"空\", \"start\": 512.899, \"end\": 513.54, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 513.54, \"end\": 513.7, \"score\": 0.769}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 513.7, \"end\": 513.9, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"真\", \"start\": 513.9, \"end\": 514.08, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 514.08, \"end\": 514.2, \"score\": 0.783}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 514.2, \"end\": 514.3, 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518.244, \"end\": 518.364, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 518.364, \"end\": 518.544, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 518.544, \"end\": 518.704, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"照\", \"start\": 518.704, \"end\": 518.985, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 518.985, \"end\": 519.805, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"師\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 519.805, \"end\": 519.965, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 519.965, \"end\": 520.125, \"score\": 0.774}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 520.125, \"end\": 520.266, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 520.266, \"end\": 520.426, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"直\", \"start\": 520.426, \"end\": 520.606, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 520.606, \"end\": 521.146, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 521.146, \"end\": 521.587, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"擔\"}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 521.587, \"end\": 522.247, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 522.247, \"end\": 523.288, \"score\": 0.788}, {\"word\": \"勞\"}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"爭\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 523.288, \"end\": 523.388, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 523.388, \"end\": 524.169, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 524.169, \"end\": 524.429, \"score\": 0.701}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 524.429, \"end\": 524.529, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 524.529, \"end\": 524.609, \"score\": 0.682}, {\"word\": \"像\", \"start\": 524.609, \"end\": 525.19, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 525.19, \"end\": 525.77, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"師\"}, {\"word\": \"組\"}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 525.77, \"end\": 526.131, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 526.131, \"end\": 526.751, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", 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{\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 529.754, \"end\": 529.874, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 529.874, \"end\": 529.894, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}]}, {\"start\": 531.335, \"end\": 542.643, \"text\": \"那當然這部分我們今天來講就是因為何部長新上來我們都把一些我們地方民眾的聲音勞工的聲音也希望能夠反映給我們部長知道還有我們從111年的時候我們有正式來統計也希望何部長來重視這個問題我們這個逃逸外勞逃逸外勞的部分已經超過8萬多人了已經超過8萬人那針對這部分而且\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 531.335, \"end\": 531.655, \"score\": 0.758}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 531.655, \"end\": 531.996, \"score\": 0.678}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 531.996, \"end\": 532.156, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 532.156, \"end\": 532.696, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 532.696, \"end\": 532.916, \"score\": 0.544}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 532.916, \"end\": 532.936, \"score\": 0.03}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 532.936, \"end\": 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\"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"涂\", \"start\": 673.909, \"end\": 674.009, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"吉\", \"start\": 674.009, \"end\": 674.069, \"score\": 0.611}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 674.069, \"end\": 674.089, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:13,983 --> 00:00:16,966\n好,謝謝主席。請我們何部長。我也好。\n\n2\n00:00:22,608 --> 00:00:42,804\n好,何部長恭喜你來兼任我們的勞動部長那我想請問一下我們何部長那針對過去8年我們蔡政府他有針對我們基本工資這8年來他有不斷的調漲那我想請問一下尤其這近5年的調漲那我們基本工資\n\n3\n00:00:44,585 --> 00:01:03,115\n條長的目的是什麼?那我想請問一下何部長你覺得這基本工資條長的目的是什麼?當然是為了保障勞工的權益對那是不是也有一部分他是不是也希望能夠帶動我們勞工整體的薪資當然他會有定貌的效果會有指標作用\n\n4\n00:01:04,296 --> 00:01:18,154\n對,那我們也看一下齁那因為我們基本工資年年上漲可是據我們看到齁我們這5年來我們的實質的薪資沒有成長停滯不前甚至\n\n5\n00:01:18,635 --> 00:01:41,032\n有些還是倒退的你看我們這個近5年從108年到112年我們這5年基本工資的調漲但是這近5年我們實質經常性薪資尤其從110年到112年他是倒退路的也就是說這3年我們物價的上漲通貨的膨脹大於薪資的調漲\n\n6\n00:01:44,474 --> 00:02:06,961\n那針對這一部分我們之前我們的許明春部長他有講他說基本薪資的調漲就是希望能夠帶動我們基本上我們邊際勞工的收入但是有很多的勞工朋友有跟我們講這個基本工資的調漲其實都沒有漲到他們他說因為這基本工資調漲都是\n\n7\n00:02:07,481 --> 00:02:07,801\n委員會主席\n\n8\n00:02:32,054 --> 00:02:49,732\n公務員報告這有兩點第一點就是說確實漲基本工資未必能漲到基本工資以上的那一群人這是事實那麼那個部分我們要動用其他的政策工具我們現在有進行中小企業加薪抵稅的條例的修法\n\n9\n00:03:10,155 --> 00:03:25,011\n當然主要還有包括新台幣可能有貶值的問題等等各方面對還有包括國際的因素等等這部分勞動部會比較沒有辦法用單一部會來解決可是我會想辦法來向行政院反映好嗎好\n\n10\n00:03:25,792 --> 00:03:48,593\n因為今天會提出這一部分就是有很多的勞工朋友他說其實這個最低基本工資怎麼調漲尤其我們蔡政府這8年來的調漲他說其實他們是毫無感受因為都是調最低的他們不要說8年這10年來10幾年來他們都沒有調到薪水所以我們從這個實質薪資我們就看得到因為他們沒有調漲\n\n11\n00:03:50,114 --> 00:04:08,944\n所以這個通貨的膨脹造成他實質的薪資不但沒有提升反而是後退所以我們看到這8年來好像蔡政府好像對於這基本工資一直調漲好像薪水一直在調但是都是調最低的反而這大部分的沒有領基本工資的他們都沒有調漲所以這個每年每年的物價上漲通貨膨脹\n\n12\n00:04:13,686 --> 00:04:31,825\n就變成說看得到實質薪資是倒退的所以這部分會提出也希望何部長能夠重視這十幾年來他們很多人薪水都沒有調漲的問題希望何部長能夠以勞動部的大家長立場來幫我們來了解希望有機會能夠幫他們研議怎麼去解決這個問題\n\n13\n00:04:34,005 --> 00:04:53,372\n好那針對第二項那我也知道我們何部長是野百合世代社會運動公運農運出身所以我相信說對於工會這些組織的部分我認為何部長應該也都是非常關心那我想請問一下我們跳下一頁那針對我們\n\n14\n00:04:54,813 --> 00:05:08,686\n公會的組織門檻有很多的勞工跟我們來反映因為台灣是以中小企業為主有98%的企業他僱用的人數不到30人所以算起來有343萬\n\n15\n00:05:11,108 --> 00:05:32,149\n這受雇的勞工並沒有機會來組織這個工會甚至連我們中央銀行他都贊成降低門檻連我們立法院的法治局也認為30人的門檻對於我們中小企業組織工會的權利是受限制的不知道針對我們何部長針對這一部分你的看法是怎麼樣\n\n16\n00:05:34,485 --> 00:05:54,420\n跟委員報告,其實許部長他的這個談話是反映台灣社會的現實我們的中小企業真的占了台灣的產業的98%是非常龐大的一個部門到底工會的門檻下修有沒有幫助勞工的團結權其實這是一個問號\n\n17\n00:05:57,422 --> 00:06:26,702\n這真的是我們必須仔細的去分析到底有沒有用因為事實上他並不見得真正能夠提升勞工的團結權那因為事實上在30人以下的單位他本身在團結上面他會有一定程度的難度因為他跟資方之間就是一個家庭的關係類家庭的關係所以你說叫他去跟資方之間用這種公會抗爭的方式事實上也做不到所以事實上\n\n18\n00:06:27,462 --> 00:06:47,545\n所謂下修30人以下是不是多數勞工的中小企業內部勞工的想法這我們說真的要去確認因為針對這一部分我們之前詢問過我們許部長當然他說這個降低工會門檻容易影響企業的營運但是我們一直還是不斷接受到很多中小企業很多勞工他說認為\n\n19\n00:06:48,806 --> 00:07:12,902\n拜託他們組織這個工會的權利所以也希望何部長我一直認為說何部長也是我們社會運動出身也希望能夠對於我們這個人數比較少的中小企業這組織工會的部分希望何部長上來以後也能夠再重新演繹來重視一下是不是有機會能夠幫他們爭取一些他們合法能夠爭取的權益\n\n20\n00:07:14,332 --> 00:07:38,160\n我們會來研究討論好這一部分也請我們何部長來重視一下那還有我們最近尤其我們去年民洋大火之後有造成我們市民消防人員的殉職其實這幾年來陸陸續續都有很多很年輕很優秀的消防員因為救火保護我們人民生命財產而讓他自己\n\n21\n00:07:38,880 --> 00:08:00,407\n的生命受到損失而罹難那針對我們消防員組織工會的這一部分我請問一下我們何部長請問你對消防員組織工會的這個態度你是否支持我認為這個消防員還是要回歸公務人員協會法可是他們一直認為說這個\n\n22\n00:08:02,568 --> 00:08:26,234\n考試院的公務人員協會法這個門檻過高而且對於他們的協商權他們感覺都是被架空的委員跟您報告我們已經請考試院趕快把這個公務人員協會法關於協商的部分做一些放寬這個是比較實際的處理有效解決消防員的那種問題那如果要用公務人員協會法我們希望\n\n23\n00:08:27,455 --> 00:08:49,894\n這個門檻的部分要去做個調整還有他們所重視的協商權不應該被架空如果真的沒有辦法改善我們倒認為他組織工會的方式可以比照教師那大家一直都很擔心會有勞資爭議處理的問題我們可以像教師組工會一樣明定就是他們也禁止罷工我認為就應該可以解決這個問題\n\n24\n00:08:51,335 --> 00:09:02,643\n那當然這部分我們今天來講就是因為何部長新上來我們都把一些我們地方民眾的聲音勞工的聲音也希望能夠反映給我們部長知道還有我們從111年的時候我們有正式來統計也希望何部長來重視這個問題我們這個逃逸外勞逃逸外勞的部分已經超過8萬多人了已經超過8萬人那針對這部分而且\n\n25\n00:09:20,697 --> 00:09:29,414\n這個比例我們看起來是年年增加不知道我們勞動部有沒有什麼方法那何部長針對這部分你有沒有自己的看法跟解決方法\n\n26\n00:09:30,509 --> 00:09:51,073\n因為移工的失聯原因真的是很多啦有勞動條件的問題啦這個有一般缺工的問題這樣可是就是說第一個我們可能要強化那個尤其是家庭看護工這一塊啦他的薪資啦有可以再提升的空間啦然後讓他減少他逃跑的誘因啦\n\n27\n00:09:51,633 --> 00:10:08,184\n那這個是我們目前也許可以努力的方向那其次是強化那個職聘的服務讓他能夠可以自己自己的意願這樣子來進行各種的這樣子的所以我一直希望勞動部針對這一部分一定要來做事因為這個逃逸外勞\n\n28\n00:10:29,735 --> 00:10:45,574\n那我想說這個台灣這個缺工問題也都非常嚴重也有人建議說因為他是自首專案移工他自首之後他就不能再返台來工作那我們想說是不是也勞動部跟內政部是不是有一個機會來研議是不是針對這個自首專案\n\n29\n00:10:48,057 --> 00:11:07,405\n什麼樣來推動是不是讓這移工也有機會能夠繼續在臺灣來工作因為他這個自首專案就是自首之後回去以後他就不能再返臺對不能再回來因為我覺得這個一方面解決逃逸外遙的問題也一方面希望能夠解決我們臺灣缺工嚴重的問題\n\n30\n00:11:09,626 --> 00:11:14,089\n我來跟移民署來討論好嗎希望這個部長針對這幾個議題先上任我們後面有無限揮灑的空間我們也對何部長有很大的期待希望以上幾個問題部長能夠為我們這些勞工朋友消防員能夠爭取他們合法的權益謝謝好謝謝涂權吉委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n13983\t16966\t好,謝謝主席。請我們何部長。我也好。\n22608\t42804\t好,何部長恭喜你來兼任我們的勞動部長那我想請問一下我們何部長那針對過去8年我們蔡政府他有針對我們基本工資這8年來他有不斷的調漲那我想請問一下尤其這近5年的調漲那我們基本工資\n44585\t63115\t條長的目的是什麼?那我想請問一下何部長你覺得這基本工資條長的目的是什麼?當然是為了保障勞工的權益對那是不是也有一部分他是不是也希望能夠帶動我們勞工整體的薪資當然他會有定貌的效果會有指標作用\n64296\t78154\t對,那我們也看一下齁那因為我們基本工資年年上漲可是據我們看到齁我們這5年來我們的實質的薪資沒有成長停滯不前甚至\n78635\t101032\t有些還是倒退的你看我們這個近5年從108年到112年我們這5年基本工資的調漲但是這近5年我們實質經常性薪資尤其從110年到112年他是倒退路的也就是說這3年我們物價的上漲通貨的膨脹大於薪資的調漲\n104474\t126961\t那針對這一部分我們之前我們的許明春部長他有講他說基本薪資的調漲就是希望能夠帶動我們基本上我們邊際勞工的收入但是有很多的勞工朋友有跟我們講這個基本工資的調漲其實都沒有漲到他們他說因為這基本工資調漲都是\n127481\t127801\t委員會主席\n152054\t169732\t公務員報告這有兩點第一點就是說確實漲基本工資未必能漲到基本工資以上的那一群人這是事實那麼那個部分我們要動用其他的政策工具我們現在有進行中小企業加薪抵稅的條例的修法\n169872\t189735\t﹏﹏\n190155\t205011\t當然主要還有包括新台幣可能有貶值的問題等等各方面對還有包括國際的因素等等這部分勞動部會比較沒有辦法用單一部會來解決可是我會想辦法來向行政院反映好嗎好\n205792\t228593\t因為今天會提出這一部分就是有很多的勞工朋友他說其實這個最低基本工資怎麼調漲尤其我們蔡政府這8年來的調漲他說其實他們是毫無感受因為都是調最低的他們不要說8年這10年來10幾年來他們都沒有調到薪水所以我們從這個實質薪資我們就看得到因為他們沒有調漲\n230114\t248944\t所以這個通貨的膨脹造成他實質的薪資不但沒有提升反而是後退所以我們看到這8年來好像蔡政府好像對於這基本工資一直調漲好像薪水一直在調但是都是調最低的反而這大部分的沒有領基本工資的他們都沒有調漲所以這個每年每年的物價上漲通貨膨脹\n253686\t271825\t就變成說看得到實質薪資是倒退的所以這部分會提出也希望何部長能夠重視這十幾年來他們很多人薪水都沒有調漲的問題希望何部長能夠以勞動部的大家長立場來幫我們來了解希望有機會能夠幫他們研議怎麼去解決這個問題\n274005\t293372\t好那針對第二項那我也知道我們何部長是野百合世代社會運動公運農運出身所以我相信說對於工會這些組織的部分我認為何部長應該也都是非常關心那我想請問一下我們跳下一頁那針對我們\n294813\t308686\t公會的組織門檻有很多的勞工跟我們來反映因為台灣是以中小企業為主有98%的企業他僱用的人數不到30人所以算起來有343萬\n311108\t332149\t這受雇的勞工並沒有機會來組織這個工會甚至連我們中央銀行他都贊成降低門檻連我們立法院的法治局也認為30人的門檻對於我們中小企業組織工會的權利是受限制的不知道針對我們何部長針對這一部分你的看法是怎麼樣\n334485\t354420\t跟委員報告,其實許部長他的這個談話是反映台灣社會的現實我們的中小企業真的占了台灣的產業的98%是非常龐大的一個部門到底工會的門檻下修有沒有幫助勞工的團結權其實這是一個問號\n357422\t386702\t這真的是我們必須仔細的去分析到底有沒有用因為事實上他並不見得真正能夠提升勞工的團結權那因為事實上在30人以下的單位他本身在團結上面他會有一定程度的難度因為他跟資方之間就是一個家庭的關係類家庭的關係所以你說叫他去跟資方之間用這種公會抗爭的方式事實上也做不到所以事實上\n387462\t407545\t所謂下修30人以下是不是多數勞工的中小企業內部勞工的想法這我們說真的要去確認因為針對這一部分我們之前詢問過我們許部長當然他說這個降低工會門檻容易影響企業的營運但是我們一直還是不斷接受到很多中小企業很多勞工他說認為\n408806\t432902\t拜託他們組織這個工會的權利所以也希望何部長我一直認為說何部長也是我們社會運動出身也希望能夠對於我們這個人數比較少的中小企業這組織工會的部分希望何部長上來以後也能夠再重新演繹來重視一下是不是有機會能夠幫他們爭取一些他們合法能夠爭取的權益\n434332\t458160\t我們會來研究討論好這一部分也請我們何部長來重視一下那還有我們最近尤其我們去年民洋大火之後有造成我們市民消防人員的殉職其實這幾年來陸陸續續都有很多很年輕很優秀的消防員因為救火保護我們人民生命財產而讓他自己\n458880\t480407\t的生命受到損失而罹難那針對我們消防員組織工會的這一部分我請問一下我們何部長請問你對消防員組織工會的這個態度你是否支持我認為這個消防員還是要回歸公務人員協會法可是他們一直認為說這個\n482568\t506234\t考試院的公務人員協會法這個門檻過高而且對於他們的協商權他們感覺都是被架空的委員跟您報告我們已經請考試院趕快把這個公務人員協會法關於協商的部分做一些放寬這個是比較實際的處理有效解決消防員的那種問題那如果要用公務人員協會法我們希望\n507455\t529894\t這個門檻的部分要去做個調整還有他們所重視的協商權不應該被架空如果真的沒有辦法改善我們倒認為他組織工會的方式可以比照教師那大家一直都很擔心會有勞資爭議處理的問題我們可以像教師組工會一樣明定就是他們也禁止罷工我認為就應該可以解決這個問題\n531335\t542643\t那當然這部分我們今天來講就是因為何部長新上來我們都把一些我們地方民眾的聲音勞工的聲音也希望能夠反映給我們部長知道還有我們從111年的時候我們有正式來統計也希望何部長來重視這個問題我們這個逃逸外勞逃逸外勞的部分已經超過8萬多人了已經超過8萬人那針對這部分而且\n560697\t569414\t這個比例我們看起來是年年增加不知道我們勞動部有沒有什麼方法那何部長針對這部分你有沒有自己的看法跟解決方法\n570509\t591073\t因為移工的失聯原因真的是很多啦 有勞動條件的問題啦 這個有一般缺工的問題這樣 可是就是說第一個我們可能要強化那個尤其是家庭看護工這一塊啦 他的薪資啦 有可以再提升的空間啦 然後讓他減少他逃跑的誘因啦\n591633\t608184\t那這個是我們目前也許可以努力的方向那其次是強化那個職聘的服務讓他能夠可以自己自己的意願這樣子來進行各種的這樣子的所以我一直希望勞動部針對這一部分一定要來做事因為這個逃逸外勞\n608985\t629735\t⋯⋯⋯\n629735\t645574\t那我想說這個台灣這個缺工問題也都非常嚴重也有人建議說因為他是自首專案移工他自首之後他就不能再返台來工作那我們想說是不是也勞動部跟內政部是不是有一個機會來研議是不是針對這個自首專案\n648057\t667405\t什麼樣來推動是不是讓這移工也有機會能夠繼續在臺灣來工作因為他這個自首專案就是自首之後回去以後他就不能再返臺對不能再回來因為我覺得這個一方面解決逃逸外遙的問題也一方面希望能夠解決我們臺灣缺工嚴重的問題\n669626\t674089\t我來跟移民署來討論好嗎希望這個部長針對這幾個議題先上任我們後面有無限揮灑的空間我們也對何部長有很大的期待希望以上幾個問題部長能夠為我們這些勞工朋友消防員能夠爭取他們合法的權益謝謝好謝謝涂權吉委員\n","txt":"好,謝謝主席。請我們何部長。我也好。\n好,何部長恭喜你來兼任我們的勞動部長那我想請問一下我們何部長那針對過去8年我們蔡政府他有針對我們基本工資這8年來他有不斷的調漲那我想請問一下尤其這近5年的調漲那我們基本工資\n條長的目的是什麼?那我想請問一下何部長你覺得這基本工資條長的目的是什麼?當然是為了保障勞工的權益對那是不是也有一部分他是不是也希望能夠帶動我們勞工整體的薪資當然他會有定貌的效果會有指標作用\n對,那我們也看一下齁那因為我們基本工資年年上漲可是據我們看到齁我們這5年來我們的實質的薪資沒有成長停滯不前甚至\n有些還是倒退的你看我們這個近5年從108年到112年我們這5年基本工資的調漲但是這近5年我們實質經常性薪資尤其從110年到112年他是倒退路的也就是說這3年我們物價的上漲通貨的膨脹大於薪資的調漲\n那針對這一部分我們之前我們的許明春部長他有講他說基本薪資的調漲就是希望能夠帶動我們基本上我們邊際勞工的收入但是有很多的勞工朋友有跟我們講這個基本工資的調漲其實都沒有漲到他們他說因為這基本工資調漲都是\n委員會主席\n公務員報告這有兩點第一點就是說確實漲基本工資未必能漲到基本工資以上的那一群人這是事實那麼那個部分我們要動用其他的政策工具我們現在有進行中小企業加薪抵稅的條例的修法\n﹏﹏\n當然主要還有包括新台幣可能有貶值的問題等等各方面對還有包括國際的因素等等這部分勞動部會比較沒有辦法用單一部會來解決可是我會想辦法來向行政院反映好嗎好\n因為今天會提出這一部分就是有很多的勞工朋友他說其實這個最低基本工資怎麼調漲尤其我們蔡政府這8年來的調漲他說其實他們是毫無感受因為都是調最低的他們不要說8年這10年來10幾年來他們都沒有調到薪水所以我們從這個實質薪資我們就看得到因為他們沒有調漲\n所以這個通貨的膨脹造成他實質的薪資不但沒有提升反而是後退所以我們看到這8年來好像蔡政府好像對於這基本工資一直調漲好像薪水一直在調但是都是調最低的反而這大部分的沒有領基本工資的他們都沒有調漲所以這個每年每年的物價上漲通貨膨脹\n就變成說看得到實質薪資是倒退的所以這部分會提出也希望何部長能夠重視這十幾年來他們很多人薪水都沒有調漲的問題希望何部長能夠以勞動部的大家長立場來幫我們來了解希望有機會能夠幫他們研議怎麼去解決這個問題\n好那針對第二項那我也知道我們何部長是野百合世代社會運動公運農運出身所以我相信說對於工會這些組織的部分我認為何部長應該也都是非常關心那我想請問一下我們跳下一頁那針對我們\n公會的組織門檻有很多的勞工跟我們來反映因為台灣是以中小企業為主有98%的企業他僱用的人數不到30人所以算起來有343萬\n這受雇的勞工並沒有機會來組織這個工會甚至連我們中央銀行他都贊成降低門檻連我們立法院的法治局也認為30人的門檻對於我們中小企業組織工會的權利是受限制的不知道針對我們何部長針對這一部分你的看法是怎麼樣\n跟委員報告,其實許部長他的這個談話是反映台灣社會的現實我們的中小企業真的占了台灣的產業的98%是非常龐大的一個部門到底工會的門檻下修有沒有幫助勞工的團結權其實這是一個問號\n這真的是我們必須仔細的去分析到底有沒有用因為事實上他並不見得真正能夠提升勞工的團結權那因為事實上在30人以下的單位他本身在團結上面他會有一定程度的難度因為他跟資方之間就是一個家庭的關係類家庭的關係所以你說叫他去跟資方之間用這種公會抗爭的方式事實上也做不到所以事實上\n所謂下修30人以下是不是多數勞工的中小企業內部勞工的想法這我們說真的要去確認因為針對這一部分我們之前詢問過我們許部長當然他說這個降低工會門檻容易影響企業的營運但是我們一直還是不斷接受到很多中小企業很多勞工他說認為\n拜託他們組織這個工會的權利所以也希望何部長我一直認為說何部長也是我們社會運動出身也希望能夠對於我們這個人數比較少的中小企業這組織工會的部分希望何部長上來以後也能夠再重新演繹來重視一下是不是有機會能夠幫他們爭取一些他們合法能夠爭取的權益\n我們會來研究討論好這一部分也請我們何部長來重視一下那還有我們最近尤其我們去年民洋大火之後有造成我們市民消防人員的殉職其實這幾年來陸陸續續都有很多很年輕很優秀的消防員因為救火保護我們人民生命財產而讓他自己\n的生命受到損失而罹難那針對我們消防員組織工會的這一部分我請問一下我們何部長請問你對消防員組織工會的這個態度你是否支持我認為這個消防員還是要回歸公務人員協會法可是他們一直認為說這個\n考試院的公務人員協會法這個門檻過高而且對於他們的協商權他們感覺都是被架空的委員跟您報告我們已經請考試院趕快把這個公務人員協會法關於協商的部分做一些放寬這個是比較實際的處理有效解決消防員的那種問題那如果要用公務人員協會法我們希望\n這個門檻的部分要去做個調整還有他們所重視的協商權不應該被架空如果真的沒有辦法改善我們倒認為他組織工會的方式可以比照教師那大家一直都很擔心會有勞資爭議處理的問題我們可以像教師組工會一樣明定就是他們也禁止罷工我認為就應該可以解決這個問題\n那當然這部分我們今天來講就是因為何部長新上來我們都把一些我們地方民眾的聲音勞工的聲音也希望能夠反映給我們部長知道還有我們從111年的時候我們有正式來統計也希望何部長來重視這個問題我們這個逃逸外勞逃逸外勞的部分已經超過8萬多人了已經超過8萬人那針對這部分而且\n這個比例我們看起來是年年增加不知道我們勞動部有沒有什麼方法那何部長針對這部分你有沒有自己的看法跟解決方法\n因為移工的失聯原因真的是很多啦 有勞動條件的問題啦 這個有一般缺工的問題這樣 可是就是說第一個我們可能要強化那個尤其是家庭看護工這一塊啦 他的薪資啦 有可以再提升的空間啦 然後讓他減少他逃跑的誘因啦\n那這個是我們目前也許可以努力的方向那其次是強化那個職聘的服務讓他能夠可以自己自己的意願這樣子來進行各種的這樣子的所以我一直希望勞動部針對這一部分一定要來做事因為這個逃逸外勞\n⋯⋯⋯\n那我想說這個台灣這個缺工問題也都非常嚴重也有人建議說因為他是自首專案移工他自首之後他就不能再返台來工作那我們想說是不是也勞動部跟內政部是不是有一個機會來研議是不是針對這個自首專案\n什麼樣來推動是不是讓這移工也有機會能夠繼續在臺灣來工作因為他這個自首專案就是自首之後回去以後他就不能再返臺對不能再回來因為我覺得這個一方面解決逃逸外遙的問題也一方面希望能夠解決我們臺灣缺工嚴重的問題\n我來跟移民署來討論好嗎希望這個部長針對這幾個議題先上任我們後面有無限揮灑的空間我們也對何部長有很大的期待希望以上幾個問題部長能夠為我們這些勞工朋友消防員能夠爭取他們合法的權益謝謝好謝謝涂權吉委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:13.983 --> 00:16.966\n好,謝謝主席。請我們何部長。我也好。\n\n00:22.608 --> 00:42.804\n好,何部長恭喜你來兼任我們的勞動部長那我想請問一下我們何部長那針對過去8年我們蔡政府他有針對我們基本工資這8年來他有不斷的調漲那我想請問一下尤其這近5年的調漲那我們基本工資\n\n00:44.585 --> 01:03.115\n條長的目的是什麼?那我想請問一下何部長你覺得這基本工資條長的目的是什麼?當然是為了保障勞工的權益對那是不是也有一部分他是不是也希望能夠帶動我們勞工整體的薪資當然他會有定貌的效果會有指標作用\n\n01:04.296 --> 01:18.154\n對,那我們也看一下齁那因為我們基本工資年年上漲可是據我們看到齁我們這5年來我們的實質的薪資沒有成長停滯不前甚至\n\n01:18.635 --> 01:41.032\n有些還是倒退的你看我們這個近5年從108年到112年我們這5年基本工資的調漲但是這近5年我們實質經常性薪資尤其從110年到112年他是倒退路的也就是說這3年我們物價的上漲通貨的膨脹大於薪資的調漲\n\n01:44.474 --> 02:06.961\n那針對這一部分我們之前我們的許明春部長他有講他說基本薪資的調漲就是希望能夠帶動我們基本上我們邊際勞工的收入但是有很多的勞工朋友有跟我們講這個基本工資的調漲其實都沒有漲到他們他說因為這基本工資調漲都是\n\n02:07.481 --> 02:07.801\n委員會主席\n\n02:32.054 --> 02:49.732\n公務員報告這有兩點第一點就是說確實漲基本工資未必能漲到基本工資以上的那一群人這是事實那麼那個部分我們要動用其他的政策工具我們現在有進行中小企業加薪抵稅的條例的修法\n\n03:10.155 --> 03:25.011\n當然主要還有包括新台幣可能有貶值的問題等等各方面對還有包括國際的因素等等這部分勞動部會比較沒有辦法用單一部會來解決可是我會想辦法來向行政院反映好嗎好\n\n03:25.792 --> 03:48.593\n因為今天會提出這一部分就是有很多的勞工朋友他說其實這個最低基本工資怎麼調漲尤其我們蔡政府這8年來的調漲他說其實他們是毫無感受因為都是調最低的他們不要說8年這10年來10幾年來他們都沒有調到薪水所以我們從這個實質薪資我們就看得到因為他們沒有調漲\n\n03:50.114 --> 04:08.944\n所以這個通貨的膨脹造成他實質的薪資不但沒有提升反而是後退所以我們看到這8年來好像蔡政府好像對於這基本工資一直調漲好像薪水一直在調但是都是調最低的反而這大部分的沒有領基本工資的他們都沒有調漲所以這個每年每年的物價上漲通貨膨脹\n\n04:13.686 --> 04:31.825\n就變成說看得到實質薪資是倒退的所以這部分會提出也希望何部長能夠重視這十幾年來他們很多人薪水都沒有調漲的問題希望何部長能夠以勞動部的大家長立場來幫我們來了解希望有機會能夠幫他們研議怎麼去解決這個問題\n\n04:34.005 --> 04:53.372\n好那針對第二項那我也知道我們何部長是野百合世代社會運動公運農運出身所以我相信說對於工會這些組織的部分我認為何部長應該也都是非常關心那我想請問一下我們跳下一頁那針對我們\n\n04:54.813 --> 05:08.686\n公會的組織門檻有很多的勞工跟我們來反映因為台灣是以中小企業為主有98%的企業他僱用的人數不到30人所以算起來有343萬\n\n05:11.108 --> 05:32.149\n這受雇的勞工並沒有機會來組織這個工會甚至連我們中央銀行他都贊成降低門檻連我們立法院的法治局也認為30人的門檻對於我們中小企業組織工會的權利是受限制的不知道針對我們何部長針對這一部分你的看法是怎麼樣\n\n05:34.485 --> 05:54.420\n跟委員報告,其實許部長他的這個談話是反映台灣社會的現實我們的中小企業真的占了台灣的產業的98%是非常龐大的一個部門到底工會的門檻下修有沒有幫助勞工的團結權其實這是一個問號\n\n05:57.422 --> 06:26.702\n這真的是我們必須仔細的去分析到底有沒有用因為事實上他並不見得真正能夠提升勞工的團結權那因為事實上在30人以下的單位他本身在團結上面他會有一定程度的難度因為他跟資方之間就是一個家庭的關係類家庭的關係所以你說叫他去跟資方之間用這種公會抗爭的方式事實上也做不到所以事實上\n\n06:27.462 --> 06:47.545\n所謂下修30人以下是不是多數勞工的中小企業內部勞工的想法這我們說真的要去確認因為針對這一部分我們之前詢問過我們許部長當然他說這個降低工會門檻容易影響企業的營運但是我們一直還是不斷接受到很多中小企業很多勞工他說認為\n\n06:48.806 --> 07:12.902\n拜託他們組織這個工會的權利所以也希望何部長我一直認為說何部長也是我們社會運動出身也希望能夠對於我們這個人數比較少的中小企業這組織工會的部分希望何部長上來以後也能夠再重新演繹來重視一下是不是有機會能夠幫他們爭取一些他們合法能夠爭取的權益\n\n07:14.332 --> 07:38.160\n我們會來研究討論好這一部分也請我們何部長來重視一下那還有我們最近尤其我們去年民洋大火之後有造成我們市民消防人員的殉職其實這幾年來陸陸續續都有很多很年輕很優秀的消防員因為救火保護我們人民生命財產而讓他自己\n\n07:38.880 --> 08:00.407\n的生命受到損失而罹難那針對我們消防員組織工會的這一部分我請問一下我們何部長請問你對消防員組織工會的這個態度你是否支持我認為這個消防員還是要回歸公務人員協會法可是他們一直認為說這個\n\n08:02.568 --> 08:26.234\n考試院的公務人員協會法這個門檻過高而且對於他們的協商權他們感覺都是被架空的委員跟您報告我們已經請考試院趕快把這個公務人員協會法關於協商的部分做一些放寬這個是比較實際的處理有效解決消防員的那種問題那如果要用公務人員協會法我們希望\n\n08:27.455 --> 08:49.894\n這個門檻的部分要去做個調整還有他們所重視的協商權不應該被架空如果真的沒有辦法改善我們倒認為他組織工會的方式可以比照教師那大家一直都很擔心會有勞資爭議處理的問題我們可以像教師組工會一樣明定就是他們也禁止罷工我認為就應該可以解決這個問題\n\n08:51.335 --> 09:02.643\n那當然這部分我們今天來講就是因為何部長新上來我們都把一些我們地方民眾的聲音勞工的聲音也希望能夠反映給我們部長知道還有我們從111年的時候我們有正式來統計也希望何部長來重視這個問題我們這個逃逸外勞逃逸外勞的部分已經超過8萬多人了已經超過8萬人那針對這部分而且\n\n09:20.697 --> 09:29.414\n這個比例我們看起來是年年增加不知道我們勞動部有沒有什麼方法那何部長針對這部分你有沒有自己的看法跟解決方法\n\n09:30.509 --> 09:51.073\n因為移工的失聯原因真的是很多啦有勞動條件的問題啦這個有一般缺工的問題這樣可是就是說第一個我們可能要強化那個尤其是家庭看護工這一塊啦他的薪資啦有可以再提升的空間啦然後讓他減少他逃跑的誘因啦\n\n09:51.633 --> 10:08.184\n那這個是我們目前也許可以努力的方向那其次是強化那個職聘的服務讓他能夠可以自己自己的意願這樣子來進行各種的這樣子的所以我一直希望勞動部針對這一部分一定要來做事因為這個逃逸外勞\n\n10:29.735 --> 10:45.574\n那我想說這個台灣這個缺工問題也都非常嚴重也有人建議說因為他是自首專案移工他自首之後他就不能再返台來工作那我們想說是不是也勞動部跟內政部是不是有一個機會來研議是不是針對這個自首專案\n\n10:48.057 --> 11:07.405\n什麼樣來推動是不是讓這移工也有機會能夠繼續在臺灣來工作因為他這個自首專案就是自首之後回去以後他就不能再返臺對不能再回來因為我覺得這個一方面解決逃逸外遙的問題也一方面希望能夠解決我們臺灣缺工嚴重的問題\n\n11:09.626 --> 11:14.089\n我來跟移民署來討論好嗎希望這個部長針對這幾個議題先上任我們後面有無限揮灑的空間我們也對何部長有很大的期待希望以上幾個問題部長能夠為我們這些勞工朋友消防員能夠爭取他們合法的權益謝謝好謝謝涂權吉委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":13.983,"end":16.966,"text":"好,謝謝主席。請我們何部長。我也好。"},{"start":22.608,"end":42.804,"text":"好,何部長恭喜你來兼任我們的勞動部長那我想請問一下我們何部長那針對過去8年我們蔡政府他有針對我們基本工資這8年來他有不斷的調漲那我想請問一下尤其這近5年的調漲那我們基本工資"},{"start":44.585,"end":63.115,"text":"條長的目的是什麼?那我想請問一下何部長你覺得這基本工資條長的目的是什麼?當然是為了保障勞工的權益對那是不是也有一部分他是不是也希望能夠帶動我們勞工整體的薪資當然他會有定貌的效果會有指標作用"},{"start":64.296,"end":78.154,"text":"對,那我們也看一下齁那因為我們基本工資年年上漲可是據我們看到齁我們這5年來我們的實質的薪資沒有成長停滯不前甚至"},{"start":78.635,"end":101.032,"text":"有些還是倒退的你看我們這個近5年從108年到112年我們這5年基本工資的調漲但是這近5年我們實質經常性薪資尤其從110年到112年他是倒退路的也就是說這3年我們物價的上漲通貨的膨脹大於薪資的調漲"},{"start":104.474,"end":126.961,"text":"那針對這一部分我們之前我們的許明春部長他有講他說基本薪資的調漲就是希望能夠帶動我們基本上我們邊際勞工的收入但是有很多的勞工朋友有跟我們講這個基本工資的調漲其實都沒有漲到他們他說因為這基本工資調漲都是"},{"start":127.481,"end":127.801,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":152.054,"end":169.732,"text":"公務員報告這有兩點第一點就是說確實漲基本工資未必能漲到基本工資以上的那一群人這是事實那麼那個部分我們要動用其他的政策工具我們現在有進行中小企業加薪抵稅的條例的修法"},{"start":169.872,"end":189.735,"text":"﹏﹏"},{"start":190.155,"end":205.011,"text":"當然主要還有包括新台幣可能有貶值的問題等等各方面對還有包括國際的因素等等這部分勞動部會比較沒有辦法用單一部會來解決可是我會想辦法來向行政院反映好嗎好"},{"start":205.792,"end":228.593,"text":"因為今天會提出這一部分就是有很多的勞工朋友他說其實這個最低基本工資怎麼調漲尤其我們蔡政府這8年來的調漲他說其實他們是毫無感受因為都是調最低的他們不要說8年這10年來10幾年來他們都沒有調到薪水所以我們從這個實質薪資我們就看得到因為他們沒有調漲"},{"start":230.114,"end":248.944,"text":"所以這個通貨的膨脹造成他實質的薪資不但沒有提升反而是後退所以我們看到這8年來好像蔡政府好像對於這基本工資一直調漲好像薪水一直在調但是都是調最低的反而這大部分的沒有領基本工資的他們都沒有調漲所以這個每年每年的物價上漲通貨膨脹"},{"start":253.686,"end":271.825,"text":"就變成說看得到實質薪資是倒退的所以這部分會提出也希望何部長能夠重視這十幾年來他們很多人薪水都沒有調漲的問題希望何部長能夠以勞動部的大家長立場來幫我們來了解希望有機會能夠幫他們研議怎麼去解決這個問題"},{"start":274.005,"end":293.372,"text":"好那針對第二項那我也知道我們何部長是野百合世代社會運動公運農運出身所以我相信說對於工會這些組織的部分我認為何部長應該也都是非常關心那我想請問一下我們跳下一頁那針對我們"},{"start":294.813,"end":308.686,"text":"公會的組織門檻有很多的勞工跟我們來反映因為台灣是以中小企業為主有98%的企業他僱用的人數不到30人所以算起來有343萬"},{"start":311.108,"end":332.149,"text":"這受雇的勞工並沒有機會來組織這個工會甚至連我們中央銀行他都贊成降低門檻連我們立法院的法治局也認為30人的門檻對於我們中小企業組織工會的權利是受限制的不知道針對我們何部長針對這一部分你的看法是怎麼樣"},{"start":334.485,"end":354.42,"text":"跟委員報告,其實許部長他的這個談話是反映台灣社會的現實我們的中小企業真的占了台灣的產業的98%是非常龐大的一個部門到底工會的門檻下修有沒有幫助勞工的團結權其實這是一個問號"},{"start":357.422,"end":386.702,"text":"這真的是我們必須仔細的去分析到底有沒有用因為事實上他並不見得真正能夠提升勞工的團結權那因為事實上在30人以下的單位他本身在團結上面他會有一定程度的難度因為他跟資方之間就是一個家庭的關係類家庭的關係所以你說叫他去跟資方之間用這種公會抗爭的方式事實上也做不到所以事實上"},{"start":387.462,"end":407.545,"text":"所謂下修30人以下是不是多數勞工的中小企業內部勞工的想法這我們說真的要去確認因為針對這一部分我們之前詢問過我們許部長當然他說這個降低工會門檻容易影響企業的營運但是我們一直還是不斷接受到很多中小企業很多勞工他說認為"},{"start":408.806,"end":432.902,"text":"拜託他們組織這個工會的權利所以也希望何部長我一直認為說何部長也是我們社會運動出身也希望能夠對於我們這個人數比較少的中小企業這組織工會的部分希望何部長上來以後也能夠再重新演繹來重視一下是不是有機會能夠幫他們爭取一些他們合法能夠爭取的權益"},{"start":434.332,"end":458.16,"text":"我們會來研究討論好這一部分也請我們何部長來重視一下那還有我們最近尤其我們去年民洋大火之後有造成我們市民消防人員的殉職其實這幾年來陸陸續續都有很多很年輕很優秀的消防員因為救火保護我們人民生命財產而讓他自己"},{"start":458.88,"end":480.407,"text":"的生命受到損失而罹難那針對我們消防員組織工會的這一部分我請問一下我們何部長請問你對消防員組織工會的這個態度你是否支持我認為這個消防員還是要回歸公務人員協會法可是他們一直認為說這個"},{"start":482.568,"end":506.234,"text":"考試院的公務人員協會法這個門檻過高而且對於他們的協商權他們感覺都是被架空的委員跟您報告我們已經請考試院趕快把這個公務人員協會法關於協商的部分做一些放寬這個是比較實際的處理有效解決消防員的那種問題那如果要用公務人員協會法我們希望"},{"start":507.455,"end":529.894,"text":"這個門檻的部分要去做個調整還有他們所重視的協商權不應該被架空如果真的沒有辦法改善我們倒認為他組織工會的方式可以比照教師那大家一直都很擔心會有勞資爭議處理的問題我們可以像教師組工會一樣明定就是他們也禁止罷工我認為就應該可以解決這個問題"},{"start":531.335,"end":542.643,"text":"那當然這部分我們今天來講就是因為何部長新上來我們都把一些我們地方民眾的聲音勞工的聲音也希望能夠反映給我們部長知道還有我們從111年的時候我們有正式來統計也希望何部長來重視這個問題我們這個逃逸外勞逃逸外勞的部分已經超過8萬多人了已經超過8萬人那針對這部分而且"},{"start":560.697,"end":569.414,"text":"這個比例我們看起來是年年增加不知道我們勞動部有沒有什麼方法那何部長針對這部分你有沒有自己的看法跟解決方法"},{"start":570.509,"end":591.073,"text":"因為移工的失聯原因真的是很多啦 有勞動條件的問題啦 這個有一般缺工的問題這樣 可是就是說第一個我們可能要強化那個尤其是家庭看護工這一塊啦 他的薪資啦 有可以再提升的空間啦 然後讓他減少他逃跑的誘因啦"},{"start":591.633,"end":608.184,"text":"那這個是我們目前也許可以努力的方向那其次是強化那個職聘的服務讓他能夠可以自己自己的意願這樣子來進行各種的這樣子的所以我一直希望勞動部針對這一部分一定要來做事因為這個逃逸外勞"},{"start":608.985,"end":629.735,"text":"⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":629.735,"end":645.574,"text":"那我想說這個台灣這個缺工問題也都非常嚴重也有人建議說因為他是自首專案移工他自首之後他就不能再返台來工作那我們想說是不是也勞動部跟內政部是不是有一個機會來研議是不是針對這個自首專案"},{"start":648.057,"end":667.405,"text":"什麼樣來推動是不是讓這移工也有機會能夠繼續在臺灣來工作因為他這個自首專案就是自首之後回去以後他就不能再返臺對不能再回來因為我覺得這個一方面解決逃逸外遙的問題也一方面希望能夠解決我們臺灣缺工嚴重的問題"},{"start":669.626,"end":674.089,"text":"我來跟移民署來討論好嗎希望這個部長針對這幾個議題先上任我們後面有無限揮灑的空間我們也對何部長有很大的期待希望以上幾個問題部長能夠為我們這些勞工朋友消防員能夠爭取他們合法的權益謝謝好謝謝涂權吉委員"}]}}}}