{"id":152894,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152894","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d339c8d1909fa453ce6956db6d625da2bde51848baade829d34e896d657c5e8354ed8f2ce0dbea445ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃珊珊","委員發言時間":"10:40:02 - 10:46:57","影片長度":"00:06:55","會議時間":"2024-05-23T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第25次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理113年度中央政府總預算關於立法院主管預算凍結項目共4案。\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算關於行政院人事行政總處主管預算凍結項目共1案。\n三、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「洗錢防制法修正草案」案。\n（二）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「洗錢防制法第五條及第五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員郭國文等16人擬具「洗錢防制法第五條及第六條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（四）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「洗錢防制法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【第三案（一）各黨團若未提出不復議同意書，則不予審查；（四）如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","date":"2024-05-23","duration":415,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第25次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":25,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-25"},"end_time":"2024-05-23T10:46:57+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-23T10:40:02+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":919,"blocks":[["黃委員珊珊：（10時40分）謝謝主席，我想請法務部、金管會證期局。"],["主席：請法務部、金管會證期局。"],["徐次長錫祥：委員好。"],["黃委員珊珊：次長、金管會證期局，今天有洗錢防制法的提案說明，我也講得很清楚，台灣民眾黨的洗錢防制法版本已經提出來，我看到院版相關的版本，我昨天也質詢了部長。臺灣現在的詐騙已經影響到人民的生活，而且政府應該竭盡所能地打詐，但是在民進黨政府執政8年來，我們為了防制詐騙案件，成立了打詐辦公室，成立了相關的打詐政策綱領，但是我們的打詐是越打越詐，案件從兩萬多件、四十多億，現在已經到了三萬多件、八十多億，所以我們現在提出了打詐專法，今天又提出了洗錢防制專法。但是我今天看到你們的洗錢防制法裡面讓我很詫異的一件事情，就是金管會對於虛擬貨幣的業者現在有相關的專法做管理嗎？有嗎？"],["黃組長錫和：報告委員，現在還沒有。"],["黃委員珊珊：現在沒有，但是在這次的洗錢防制法第六條，是不是把所有你們該立專法的法條，全部都挪到洗錢防制法上面，由法務部幫你們管理？"],["黃組長錫和：報告委員，第六條如果通過之後，關於授權的子法，這邊規定由中央目的事業主管機關來訂定，就是金管會來訂定。"],["黃委員珊珊：我要跟次長說，你們法務部現在的問題是，我到立法院將近三個多月，從2月1日開始跟金管會不斷地討論虛擬貨幣業者怎麼樣監管，他們從頭到尾就是不想管，也就是說，我們所謂的虛擬貨幣新興業者、這些新興的科技相關的產業，他們其實跟洗錢、詐欺是息息相關的，但是金管會從頭到尾就是不想管！訂了一個指導原則，請他們成立公會，請公會去自律，今天突然間又把所有東西丟在洗錢防制法，交給法務部來管理，看起來洗錢防制法裡面有一大半、尤其是虛擬貨幣業者的部分，全部都在幫它管理，次長，你瞭解我的意思嗎？如果今天洗錢防制法是幫金管會去管理業者，這是很可笑的！"],["徐次長錫祥：我想洗錢防制法不是一個部會單獨的業務，這是跨部會的……"],["黃委員珊珊：是，但是對於業者的監管，應該是由它定專法之後監管，那才是洗錢防制法要處理的行為，不是洗錢防制法來幫它管理業者，這是我個人的意見。而且我也認為我們不應該把管理這些業別的責任丟到洗錢防制法來當母法，這是你們法務部用這個母法來幫它監管，你知道嗎？"],["徐次長錫祥：我想主責洗錢防制法是我們的義務……"],["黃委員珊珊：是的，但是業者的監管是金管會應該去訂出相關的管理規則，而且業者、業別經過政府認可之後，你才來管這些業別的洗錢要怎麼管制。"],["徐次長錫祥：是。"],["黃委員珊珊：對我來說，從法的角度、從體例的角度，都不應該把對於業者的監管放在洗錢防制法讓你來管，今天我的意見是如此，請次長回去重新跟金管會好好地討論。金管會從頭到尾就是不想管，包括他們跟我們溝通的所有過程就是它只要訂規則、業者去自律。自律是什麼樣的狀況？就是不管的意思啦。","第二個，第三方支付也是這一次重中之重，可是第三方支付又是數發部在管，對吧？所以面對我們國家同樣的管理機制、各種不同的主管業務，法務部任重道遠。現在他們都是洗錢的管道之一，而洗錢又跟詐騙息息相關，所以所有的法案裡面都應該由一個主責單位，就是我們民眾黨所提出的，相關辦法裡面很重要的是法務部應該建置一個完整的平臺。你知道現在業者怎麼報嗎？自己跟高檢署聯絡，自己跟調查局聯絡，自己跟警察局聯絡，所有的虛幣業者都是做這樣的事，他想要配合，但他不知道怎麼配合。有的業者是好的，有聯絡好，沒有聯絡的業者想要跟銀行溝通、瞭解他們的帳戶跟銀行的關係，卻沒有聯絡管道，這是我覺得很詭異的地方。如果中華民國政府要打詐，不是這種打法，越打越詐是怎麼回事呢？次長，你對於這個平臺有沒有什麼意見？要不要建立一個完整的平臺，而不是由金管會做一個、法務部做一個，金管會在前面管銀行管得嚴得要命，這些相關的人全部不管；然後這些平臺業者變成要自己聯絡；第三個，你法務部在後面收爛攤子。","次長，今天這個法很清楚，既然要提，我們就提一個完整的版本。第二個，該金管會的責任就丟回去給它，不要幫它承擔監管的責任！你瞭解我的意思嗎？"],["徐次長錫祥：是。"],["黃委員珊珊：多久之內？既然這個法召委要排審了，下一次我們希望把監管跟責任、洗防的行為切開，這部法律裡面看起來就是……你說我們的版本有問題，我才認為你們的版本問題很大！"],["徐次長錫祥：報告委員，是不是還是依照我們這個版本，相關管理的子法再由相關的部會來制定，這樣子有法……"],["黃委員珊珊：我要說的是，你的洗錢防制法不是在幫金管會管理業者啦。"],["徐次長錫祥：子法的部分……"],["黃委員珊珊：你的管理業者的辦法應該是它另外定一個專法，這是它的責任，不是洗錢防制法的責任。"],["徐次長錫祥：是。"],["黃委員珊珊：洗錢防制法在管行為，不是在管業別，對吧？"],["徐次長錫祥：對。"],["黃委員珊珊：拜託你了，好嗎？我想回到體例上面、回到正常的管道，讓金管會負起它該負的責任，證期局也一樣，我希望你們負起該監管的責任，該立法就立法，不要推到洗錢防制法，謝謝。"],["徐次長錫祥：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝黃委員，謝謝次長。","接下來請鄭正鈐委員，鄭正鈐委員，鄭正鈐委員不在。","請鄭天財委員，鄭天財委員不在。","請洪孟楷委員，洪孟楷，洪孟楷委員不在。","請陳委員俊宇發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":84,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-25","speakers":["鍾佳濱","黃珊珊","沈發惠","謝龍介","莊瑞雄","羅智強","林思銘","陳俊宇","吳思瑤","楊瓊瓔","郭國文","黃國昌","翁曉玲","傅崐萁","吳宗憲","葉元之"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-05-23"],"gazette_id":"1135001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135001_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第25次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、處理113年度中央政府總預算關於立法院主管預算凍結項目共 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\"start\": 410.629, \"end\": 410.749, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 410.749, \"end\": 410.929, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 410.929, \"end\": 411.169, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 411.169, \"end\": 411.189, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 411.189, \"end\": 411.209, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,643 --> 00:00:06,023\n法務部經管會政體局\n\n2\n00:00:21,620 --> 00:00:46,626\n市長還有金管會政紀局我想今天有洗錢防制法的提案說明我也講得很清楚台灣民眾黨的洗錢防制法版本已經提出來那我看到院版的相關的版本我昨天也諮詢了部長台灣現在的詐騙已經影響到人民的生活而且我們應該政府應該竭盡所能的來打詐但是在\n\n3\n00:00:48,018 --> 00:01:01,777\n民眾黨政府執政多年八年來我們的詐騙案件成立了打詐辦公室成立了相關的打詐政策綱領但是我們的打詐是越打越詐\n\n4\n00:01:03,476 --> 00:01:25,711\n案件從兩萬多件四十多億現在已經到三萬多件八十多億所以我們現在提出了打詐專法那今天又提出了洗錢防制專法但是我今天看到你們的洗錢防制法裡面我很詫異的一件事情金管會對於虛擬貨幣的業者現在有相關的專法來做管理嗎?\n\n5\n00:01:26,877 --> 00:01:43,044\n有嗎?現在沒有。但是我們在這一次的洗錢防制法第六條把所有的你們該立專法的法條是不是全部都挪到洗錢防制法上面由法務部來幫你們管理啊?\n\n6\n00:01:44,817 --> 00:02:08,637\n四）第二條如果通過之後,那它這個授權的執法這邊規定是所有中央目的世界主管機關來訂定,就是監管會來訂定。我要跟次長說,你法務部現在的問題是我到立法院將近三個多月。從二月一號開始跟監管會不斷的在討論虛擬貨幣業者怎麼樣監管。他們從頭到尾就是不想管。\n\n7\n00:02:09,378 --> 00:02:12,220\n四）如經院會復議．則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．\n\n8\n00:02:27,228 --> 00:02:46,311\n今天突然間又把所有東西丟在洗錢防制法交給你法務部來管理我看起來洗錢防制法裡面有一大半尤其是在虛擬貨幣業者全部都在幫他管理社長你了解我的意思嗎我們如果今天洗錢防制法是幫經管會去管理一個業者這是很可笑的\n\n9\n00:02:47,242 --> 00:03:13,880\n我想這個洗錢防制法不是一個部會單獨的業務是但是他業者的監管應該是由他訂專法之後監管他的行為才是洗錢防制法要處理的行為但是不是洗錢防制法來幫他管理業者這是我個人的意見而且我也認為說我們不應該把管理這些業別的責任丟到洗錢防制法來當母法\n\n10\n00:03:14,742 --> 00:03:17,441\n這是你法務部用這個母法來幫他監管你知道嗎?\n\n11\n00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:46,602\n我想主責洗錢防制法是我們的意義。是的。但是業者的監管是監管會應該去訂出相關的管理規則。而這個業者經過政府認可這個業別你才來管這些業別的人他的洗錢要怎麼管制。對我來說從法的角度從體力的角度他都不應該把對於業者的監管放在洗錢防制法讓你來管。\n\n12\n00:03:47,583 --> 00:04:13,670\n今天的我的意見是如此請你請次長也回去重新跟經管會好好的討論經管會從頭到尾就是不想管包括他們跟我們所有的溝通過程就是他我只要定定規則業者去自律自律是什麼樣的狀況就是不管的意思第二個第三方支付也是這一次重要重中之重可是我們第三方支付又是速發不再管對吧\n\n13\n00:04:14,574 --> 00:04:22,233\n所以我們的國家同樣的管理機制各種不同的主管業務法務部任重道遠\n\n14\n00:04:23,963 --> 00:04:50,551\n現在他們都是洗錢的管道之一而洗錢又跟詐騙息息相關所以這些所有法案裡面都應該由一個主責單位就是我們民眾黨所提出的相關的辦法裡面很重要的是法務部應該建置一個完整的平台你知道現在業者怎麼報嗎自己跟高檢署聯絡自己跟調查局聯絡自己跟警察局聯絡\n\n15\n00:04:52,151 --> 00:05:13,067\n所有的虛弊業者都是做這樣的事他想要配合但他不知道怎麼配合有的好聯絡好沒有聯絡的他想要跟銀行溝通說我這邊那個帳戶我跟你的關係他沒有聯絡管道這是我覺得很詭異的地方如果中華民國政府要打架不是這種打法越打越炸是怎麼回事呢\n\n16\n00:05:14,781 --> 00:05:33,610\n市長你對於這個平台有沒有什麼意見要不要建立一個完整的平台而不是由金管會做一個法務部做一個金管會在前面管銀行管得嚴得要命這些相關的人全部不管然後這些平台業者變成要自己聯絡第三個你法務部在後面收爛攤子\n\n17\n00:05:35,511 --> 00:05:48,778\n市長我想今天這個法很清楚既然要提我們就提一個完整的版本第二個該監管會的責任就堆回去給他不要幫他承擔監管的責任你了解我的意思嗎是是\n\n18\n00:05:51,271 --> 00:05:51,731\n則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．\n\n19\n00:06:09,056 --> 00:06:35,330\n報告委員是不是還是依照我們這個版本然後相關管理的這些執法再由相關的部會他們來制定?我要說的是你的洗錢防制法不是在幫經管會管理業者啦你的管理業者的辦法應該是他另外定一個專法這個專法這是他的責任不是洗錢防制法的責任洗錢防制法在管行為不是在管業別對吧?對\n\n20\n00:06:37,199 --> 00:06:51,209\n拜託你了好嗎我想回到體力上面回到正常的管道但儘管會負其他該負責的責任政體局一樣我希望你們負起你們該監管的責任該立法就立法不要推到洗錢防制法去好的謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5643\t6023\t法務部經管會政體局\n21620\t46626\t市長還有金管會政紀局我想今天有洗錢防制法的提案說明我也講得很清楚台灣民眾黨的洗錢防制法版本已經提出來那我看到院版的相關的版本我昨天也諮詢了部長台灣現在的詐騙已經影響到人民的生活而且我們應該政府應該竭盡所能的來打詐但是在\n48018\t61777\t民眾黨政府執政多年八年來我們的詐騙案件成立了打詐辦公室成立了相關的打詐政策綱領但是我們的打詐是越打越詐\n63476\t85711\t案件從兩萬多件四十多億現在已經到三萬多件八十多億所以我們現在提出了打詐專法那今天又提出了洗錢防制專法但是我今天看到你們的洗錢防制法裡面我很詫異的一件事情金管會對於虛擬貨幣的業者現在有相關的專法來做管理嗎?\n86877\t103044\t有嗎?現在沒有。但是我們在這一次的洗錢防制法第六條把所有的你們該立專法的法條是不是全部都挪到洗錢防制法上面由法務部來幫你們管理啊?\n104817\t128637\t四）第二條如果通過之後,那它這個授權的執法這邊規定是所有中央目的世界主管機關來訂定,就是監管會來訂定。我要跟次長說,你法務部現在的問題是我到立法院將近三個多月。從二月一號開始跟監管會不斷的在討論虛擬貨幣業者怎麼樣監管。他們從頭到尾就是不想管。\n129378\t132220\t四）如經院會復議．則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．\n147228\t166311\t今天突然間又把所有東西丟在洗錢防制法交給你法務部來管理我看起來洗錢防制法裡面有一大半尤其是在虛擬貨幣業者全部都在幫他管理社長你了解我的意思嗎我們如果今天洗錢防制法是幫經管會去管理一個業者這是很可笑的\n167242\t193880\t我想這個洗錢防制法不是一個部會單獨的業務是但是他業者的監管應該是由他訂專法之後監管他的行為才是洗錢防制法要處理的行為但是不是洗錢防制法來幫他管理業者這是我個人的意見而且我也認為說我們不應該把管理這些業別的責任丟到洗錢防制法來當母法\n194742\t197441\t這是你法務部用這個母法來幫他監管你知道嗎?\n200440\t226602\t我想主責洗錢防制法是我們的意義。是的。但是業者的監管是監管會應該去訂出相關的管理規則。而這個業者經過政府認可這個業別你才來管這些業別的人他的洗錢要怎麼管制。對我來說從法的角度從體力的角度他都不應該把對於業者的監管放在洗錢防制法讓你來管。\n227583\t253670\t今天的我的意見是如此請你請次長也回去重新跟經管會好好的討論經管會從頭到尾就是不想管包括他們跟我們所有的溝通過程就是他我只要定定規則業者去自律自律是什麼樣的狀況就是不管的意思第二個第三方支付也是這一次重要重中之重可是我們第三方支付又是速發不再管對吧\n254574\t262233\t所以我們的國家同樣的管理機制各種不同的主管業務法務部任重道遠\n263963\t290551\t現在他們都是洗錢的管道之一而洗錢又跟詐騙息息相關所以這些所有法案裡面都應該由一個主責單位就是我們民眾黨所提出的相關的辦法裡面很重要的是法務部應該建置一個完整的平台你知道現在業者怎麼報嗎自己跟高檢署聯絡自己跟調查局聯絡自己跟警察局聯絡\n292151\t313067\t所有的虛弊業者都是做這樣的事他想要配合但他不知道怎麼配合有的好聯絡好沒有聯絡的他想要跟銀行溝通說我這邊那個帳戶我跟你的關係他沒有聯絡管道這是我覺得很詭異的地方如果中華民國政府要打架不是這種打法越打越炸是怎麼回事呢\n314781\t333610\t市長你對於這個平台有沒有什麼意見要不要建立一個完整的平台而不是由金管會做一個法務部做一個金管會在前面管銀行管得嚴得要命這些相關的人全部不管然後這些平台業者變成要自己聯絡第三個你法務部在後面收爛攤子\n335511\t348778\t市長我想今天這個法很清楚既然要提我們就提一個完整的版本第二個該監管會的責任就堆回去給他不要幫他承擔監管的責任你了解我的意思嗎是是\n351271\t351731\t則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．\n369056\t395330\t報告委員是不是還是依照我們這個版本然後相關管理的這些執法再由相關的部會他們來制定?我要說的是你的洗錢防制法不是在幫經管會管理業者啦你的管理業者的辦法應該是他另外定一個專法這個專法這是他的責任不是洗錢防制法的責任洗錢防制法在管行為不是在管業別對吧?對\n397199\t411209\t拜託你了好嗎我想回到體力上面回到正常的管道但儘管會負其他該負責的責任政體局一樣我希望你們負起你們該監管的責任該立法就立法不要推到洗錢防制法去好的謝謝\n","txt":"法務部經管會政體局\n市長還有金管會政紀局我想今天有洗錢防制法的提案說明我也講得很清楚台灣民眾黨的洗錢防制法版本已經提出來那我看到院版的相關的版本我昨天也諮詢了部長台灣現在的詐騙已經影響到人民的生活而且我們應該政府應該竭盡所能的來打詐但是在\n民眾黨政府執政多年八年來我們的詐騙案件成立了打詐辦公室成立了相關的打詐政策綱領但是我們的打詐是越打越詐\n案件從兩萬多件四十多億現在已經到三萬多件八十多億所以我們現在提出了打詐專法那今天又提出了洗錢防制專法但是我今天看到你們的洗錢防制法裡面我很詫異的一件事情金管會對於虛擬貨幣的業者現在有相關的專法來做管理嗎?\n有嗎?現在沒有。但是我們在這一次的洗錢防制法第六條把所有的你們該立專法的法條是不是全部都挪到洗錢防制法上面由法務部來幫你們管理啊?\n四）第二條如果通過之後,那它這個授權的執法這邊規定是所有中央目的世界主管機關來訂定,就是監管會來訂定。我要跟次長說,你法務部現在的問題是我到立法院將近三個多月。從二月一號開始跟監管會不斷的在討論虛擬貨幣業者怎麼樣監管。他們從頭到尾就是不想管。\n四）如經院會復議．則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．\n今天突然間又把所有東西丟在洗錢防制法交給你法務部來管理我看起來洗錢防制法裡面有一大半尤其是在虛擬貨幣業者全部都在幫他管理社長你了解我的意思嗎我們如果今天洗錢防制法是幫經管會去管理一個業者這是很可笑的\n我想這個洗錢防制法不是一個部會單獨的業務是但是他業者的監管應該是由他訂專法之後監管他的行為才是洗錢防制法要處理的行為但是不是洗錢防制法來幫他管理業者這是我個人的意見而且我也認為說我們不應該把管理這些業別的責任丟到洗錢防制法來當母法\n這是你法務部用這個母法來幫他監管你知道嗎?\n我想主責洗錢防制法是我們的意義。是的。但是業者的監管是監管會應該去訂出相關的管理規則。而這個業者經過政府認可這個業別你才來管這些業別的人他的洗錢要怎麼管制。對我來說從法的角度從體力的角度他都不應該把對於業者的監管放在洗錢防制法讓你來管。\n今天的我的意見是如此請你請次長也回去重新跟經管會好好的討論經管會從頭到尾就是不想管包括他們跟我們所有的溝通過程就是他我只要定定規則業者去自律自律是什麼樣的狀況就是不管的意思第二個第三方支付也是這一次重要重中之重可是我們第三方支付又是速發不再管對吧\n所以我們的國家同樣的管理機制各種不同的主管業務法務部任重道遠\n現在他們都是洗錢的管道之一而洗錢又跟詐騙息息相關所以這些所有法案裡面都應該由一個主責單位就是我們民眾黨所提出的相關的辦法裡面很重要的是法務部應該建置一個完整的平台你知道現在業者怎麼報嗎自己跟高檢署聯絡自己跟調查局聯絡自己跟警察局聯絡\n所有的虛弊業者都是做這樣的事他想要配合但他不知道怎麼配合有的好聯絡好沒有聯絡的他想要跟銀行溝通說我這邊那個帳戶我跟你的關係他沒有聯絡管道這是我覺得很詭異的地方如果中華民國政府要打架不是這種打法越打越炸是怎麼回事呢\n市長你對於這個平台有沒有什麼意見要不要建立一個完整的平台而不是由金管會做一個法務部做一個金管會在前面管銀行管得嚴得要命這些相關的人全部不管然後這些平台業者變成要自己聯絡第三個你法務部在後面收爛攤子\n市長我想今天這個法很清楚既然要提我們就提一個完整的版本第二個該監管會的責任就堆回去給他不要幫他承擔監管的責任你了解我的意思嗎是是\n則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．\n報告委員是不是還是依照我們這個版本然後相關管理的這些執法再由相關的部會他們來制定?我要說的是你的洗錢防制法不是在幫經管會管理業者啦你的管理業者的辦法應該是他另外定一個專法這個專法這是他的責任不是洗錢防制法的責任洗錢防制法在管行為不是在管業別對吧?對\n拜託你了好嗎我想回到體力上面回到正常的管道但儘管會負其他該負責的責任政體局一樣我希望你們負起你們該監管的責任該立法就立法不要推到洗錢防制法去好的謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.643 --> 00:06.023\n法務部經管會政體局\n\n00:21.620 --> 00:46.626\n市長還有金管會政紀局我想今天有洗錢防制法的提案說明我也講得很清楚台灣民眾黨的洗錢防制法版本已經提出來那我看到院版的相關的版本我昨天也諮詢了部長台灣現在的詐騙已經影響到人民的生活而且我們應該政府應該竭盡所能的來打詐但是在\n\n00:48.018 --> 01:01.777\n民眾黨政府執政多年八年來我們的詐騙案件成立了打詐辦公室成立了相關的打詐政策綱領但是我們的打詐是越打越詐\n\n01:03.476 --> 01:25.711\n案件從兩萬多件四十多億現在已經到三萬多件八十多億所以我們現在提出了打詐專法那今天又提出了洗錢防制專法但是我今天看到你們的洗錢防制法裡面我很詫異的一件事情金管會對於虛擬貨幣的業者現在有相關的專法來做管理嗎?\n\n01:26.877 --> 01:43.044\n有嗎?現在沒有。但是我們在這一次的洗錢防制法第六條把所有的你們該立專法的法條是不是全部都挪到洗錢防制法上面由法務部來幫你們管理啊?\n\n01:44.817 --> 02:08.637\n四）第二條如果通過之後,那它這個授權的執法這邊規定是所有中央目的世界主管機關來訂定,就是監管會來訂定。我要跟次長說,你法務部現在的問題是我到立法院將近三個多月。從二月一號開始跟監管會不斷的在討論虛擬貨幣業者怎麼樣監管。他們從頭到尾就是不想管。\n\n02:09.378 --> 02:12.220\n四）如經院會復議．則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．\n\n02:27.228 --> 02:46.311\n今天突然間又把所有東西丟在洗錢防制法交給你法務部來管理我看起來洗錢防制法裡面有一大半尤其是在虛擬貨幣業者全部都在幫他管理社長你了解我的意思嗎我們如果今天洗錢防制法是幫經管會去管理一個業者這是很可笑的\n\n02:47.242 --> 03:13.880\n我想這個洗錢防制法不是一個部會單獨的業務是但是他業者的監管應該是由他訂專法之後監管他的行為才是洗錢防制法要處理的行為但是不是洗錢防制法來幫他管理業者這是我個人的意見而且我也認為說我們不應該把管理這些業別的責任丟到洗錢防制法來當母法\n\n03:14.742 --> 03:17.441\n這是你法務部用這個母法來幫他監管你知道嗎?\n\n03:20.440 --> 03:46.602\n我想主責洗錢防制法是我們的意義。是的。但是業者的監管是監管會應該去訂出相關的管理規則。而這個業者經過政府認可這個業別你才來管這些業別的人他的洗錢要怎麼管制。對我來說從法的角度從體力的角度他都不應該把對於業者的監管放在洗錢防制法讓你來管。\n\n03:47.583 --> 04:13.670\n今天的我的意見是如此請你請次長也回去重新跟經管會好好的討論經管會從頭到尾就是不想管包括他們跟我們所有的溝通過程就是他我只要定定規則業者去自律自律是什麼樣的狀況就是不管的意思第二個第三方支付也是這一次重要重中之重可是我們第三方支付又是速發不再管對吧\n\n04:14.574 --> 04:22.233\n所以我們的國家同樣的管理機制各種不同的主管業務法務部任重道遠\n\n04:23.963 --> 04:50.551\n現在他們都是洗錢的管道之一而洗錢又跟詐騙息息相關所以這些所有法案裡面都應該由一個主責單位就是我們民眾黨所提出的相關的辦法裡面很重要的是法務部應該建置一個完整的平台你知道現在業者怎麼報嗎自己跟高檢署聯絡自己跟調查局聯絡自己跟警察局聯絡\n\n04:52.151 --> 05:13.067\n所有的虛弊業者都是做這樣的事他想要配合但他不知道怎麼配合有的好聯絡好沒有聯絡的他想要跟銀行溝通說我這邊那個帳戶我跟你的關係他沒有聯絡管道這是我覺得很詭異的地方如果中華民國政府要打架不是這種打法越打越炸是怎麼回事呢\n\n05:14.781 --> 05:33.610\n市長你對於這個平台有沒有什麼意見要不要建立一個完整的平台而不是由金管會做一個法務部做一個金管會在前面管銀行管得嚴得要命這些相關的人全部不管然後這些平台業者變成要自己聯絡第三個你法務部在後面收爛攤子\n\n05:35.511 --> 05:48.778\n市長我想今天這個法很清楚既然要提我們就提一個完整的版本第二個該監管會的責任就堆回去給他不要幫他承擔監管的責任你了解我的意思嗎是是\n\n05:51.271 --> 05:51.731\n則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．\n\n06:09.056 --> 06:35.330\n報告委員是不是還是依照我們這個版本然後相關管理的這些執法再由相關的部會他們來制定?我要說的是你的洗錢防制法不是在幫經管會管理業者啦你的管理業者的辦法應該是他另外定一個專法這個專法這是他的責任不是洗錢防制法的責任洗錢防制法在管行為不是在管業別對吧?對\n\n06:37.199 --> 06:51.209\n拜託你了好嗎我想回到體力上面回到正常的管道但儘管會負其他該負責的責任政體局一樣我希望你們負起你們該監管的責任該立法就立法不要推到洗錢防制法去好的謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.643,"end":6.023,"text":"法務部經管會政體局"},{"start":21.62,"end":46.626,"text":"市長還有金管會政紀局我想今天有洗錢防制法的提案說明我也講得很清楚台灣民眾黨的洗錢防制法版本已經提出來那我看到院版的相關的版本我昨天也諮詢了部長台灣現在的詐騙已經影響到人民的生活而且我們應該政府應該竭盡所能的來打詐但是在"},{"start":48.018,"end":61.777,"text":"民眾黨政府執政多年八年來我們的詐騙案件成立了打詐辦公室成立了相關的打詐政策綱領但是我們的打詐是越打越詐"},{"start":63.476,"end":85.711,"text":"案件從兩萬多件四十多億現在已經到三萬多件八十多億所以我們現在提出了打詐專法那今天又提出了洗錢防制專法但是我今天看到你們的洗錢防制法裡面我很詫異的一件事情金管會對於虛擬貨幣的業者現在有相關的專法來做管理嗎?"},{"start":86.877,"end":103.044,"text":"有嗎?現在沒有。但是我們在這一次的洗錢防制法第六條把所有的你們該立專法的法條是不是全部都挪到洗錢防制法上面由法務部來幫你們管理啊?"},{"start":104.817,"end":128.637,"text":"四）第二條如果通過之後,那它這個授權的執法這邊規定是所有中央目的世界主管機關來訂定,就是監管會來訂定。我要跟次長說,你法務部現在的問題是我到立法院將近三個多月。從二月一號開始跟監管會不斷的在討論虛擬貨幣業者怎麼樣監管。他們從頭到尾就是不想管。"},{"start":129.378,"end":132.22,"text":"四）如經院會復議．則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．"},{"start":147.228,"end":166.311,"text":"今天突然間又把所有東西丟在洗錢防制法交給你法務部來管理我看起來洗錢防制法裡面有一大半尤其是在虛擬貨幣業者全部都在幫他管理社長你了解我的意思嗎我們如果今天洗錢防制法是幫經管會去管理一個業者這是很可笑的"},{"start":167.242,"end":193.88,"text":"我想這個洗錢防制法不是一個部會單獨的業務是但是他業者的監管應該是由他訂專法之後監管他的行為才是洗錢防制法要處理的行為但是不是洗錢防制法來幫他管理業者這是我個人的意見而且我也認為說我們不應該把管理這些業別的責任丟到洗錢防制法來當母法"},{"start":194.742,"end":197.441,"text":"這是你法務部用這個母法來幫他監管你知道嗎?"},{"start":200.44,"end":226.602,"text":"我想主責洗錢防制法是我們的意義。是的。但是業者的監管是監管會應該去訂出相關的管理規則。而這個業者經過政府認可這個業別你才來管這些業別的人他的洗錢要怎麼管制。對我來說從法的角度從體力的角度他都不應該把對於業者的監管放在洗錢防制法讓你來管。"},{"start":227.583,"end":253.67,"text":"今天的我的意見是如此請你請次長也回去重新跟經管會好好的討論經管會從頭到尾就是不想管包括他們跟我們所有的溝通過程就是他我只要定定規則業者去自律自律是什麼樣的狀況就是不管的意思第二個第三方支付也是這一次重要重中之重可是我們第三方支付又是速發不再管對吧"},{"start":254.574,"end":262.233,"text":"所以我們的國家同樣的管理機制各種不同的主管業務法務部任重道遠"},{"start":263.963,"end":290.551,"text":"現在他們都是洗錢的管道之一而洗錢又跟詐騙息息相關所以這些所有法案裡面都應該由一個主責單位就是我們民眾黨所提出的相關的辦法裡面很重要的是法務部應該建置一個完整的平台你知道現在業者怎麼報嗎自己跟高檢署聯絡自己跟調查局聯絡自己跟警察局聯絡"},{"start":292.151,"end":313.067,"text":"所有的虛弊業者都是做這樣的事他想要配合但他不知道怎麼配合有的好聯絡好沒有聯絡的他想要跟銀行溝通說我這邊那個帳戶我跟你的關係他沒有聯絡管道這是我覺得很詭異的地方如果中華民國政府要打架不是這種打法越打越炸是怎麼回事呢"},{"start":314.781,"end":333.61,"text":"市長你對於這個平台有沒有什麼意見要不要建立一個完整的平台而不是由金管會做一個法務部做一個金管會在前面管銀行管得嚴得要命這些相關的人全部不管然後這些平台業者變成要自己聯絡第三個你法務部在後面收爛攤子"},{"start":335.511,"end":348.778,"text":"市長我想今天這個法很清楚既然要提我們就提一個完整的版本第二個該監管會的責任就堆回去給他不要幫他承擔監管的責任你了解我的意思嗎是是"},{"start":351.271,"end":351.731,"text":"則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查．"},{"start":369.056,"end":395.33,"text":"報告委員是不是還是依照我們這個版本然後相關管理的這些執法再由相關的部會他們來制定?我要說的是你的洗錢防制法不是在幫經管會管理業者啦你的管理業者的辦法應該是他另外定一個專法這個專法這是他的責任不是洗錢防制法的責任洗錢防制法在管行為不是在管業別對吧?對"},{"start":397.199,"end":411.209,"text":"拜託你了好嗎我想回到體力上面回到正常的管道但儘管會負其他該負責的責任政體局一樣我希望你們負起你們該監管的責任該立法就立法不要推到洗錢防制法去好的謝謝"}]}}}}