{"id":152905,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152905","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d339c8d1909fa453f92c7aa1a6ec57e19f2fcaa3dc194f73d34e896d657c5e83d354354e2f17e0785ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"何欣純","委員發言時間":"11:07:05 - 11:14:17","影片長度":"00:07:12","會議時間":"2024-05-23T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【5月22日、23日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-23","duration":432,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第17次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":17,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-17"},"end_time":"2024-05-23T11:14:17+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-23T11:07:05+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":681,"blocks":[["何委員欣純：（11時7分）謝謝主席黃召委，我們是不是請何佩珊部長。"],["主席：請何部長。"],["何部長佩珊：委員好。"],["何委員欣純：部長先恭喜你。"],["何部長佩珊：謝謝。"],["何委員欣純：但是也是期許啦！因為還有很多挑戰在我們的面前。第一個，最近紛紛擾擾有關兩大外送平臺Uber Eats跟foodpanda合併之後，會變成是一個獨占市場的局面，我等一下也要去經濟委員會問一下公平會，但是今天在衛環要就教於何部長，在勞動權益上，這些外送平臺的外送人員，我知道從過去的許部長到現在，我們已經了喝咖啡，然後開了一些座談會議，開了好幾次，好像五次、六次，對不對？開會開到現在，就教何部長，您對這些外送人員的權益，勞動部要如何堅守立場，保障勞工的權益？"],["何部長佩珊：是，因為現在發生了一個新的形式，就是他們提出合併，其實他們提出合併的過程必須經由政府機關審查，剛好也藉這個機會，我們可以向公平會強烈的表示意見，要求公平會在這個合併的審查過程必須會勞動部，我也會自己帶頭來關切這件事情這樣子。"],["何委員欣純：一定要的。"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["何委員欣純：因為公平會主委現在正在經濟委員會，我看到他的態度推拖拉，也沒有一個堅定的立場，目前正在收件，要求兩大平臺來補件，未來都推給審議委員會，我認為我們作為政府機關，第一個，公權力要拿出來，第二個，對於各方的利益、權益、意見，我們都要做一個強烈的主張，要主張什麼？第一個，維護勞權，外送人員的勞動權益跟他的安全，第二個，我們對於兩大平臺合併之後的市場變成獨占這樣子的經濟模式，對於消費者的權益、對於餐飲業、小吃店、小店家的權益，我覺得這個都是政府該跨部會去做的事情，絕對不是說那是審議委員會的事，所以部長要硬起來。"],["何部長佩珊：好。"],["何委員欣純：要主張、要主動去要求公平會在審議的過程裡面，勞動部對於外送平臺外送人員的權益，一定要保障，一定要發出聲音，拜託部長。"],["何部長佩珊：是，一定。"],["何委員欣純：第二個，我對你的期許，我們法規的運用，要確保勞工的最佳利益，這樣子部長你應該認同吧？"],["何部長佩珊：當然。"],["何委員欣純：我最近發現一個，這個不是個案，2月29號出生的勞工比較衰嗎？部長，你可能看到這句話會覺得很納悶，為什麼跟勞動部有關係，我們現在所有2月29號出生的勞工，他們的權益受損，針對這一件事情，我從基層的承辦人員問到你們的課長、問到你們的組長、問到你們的司長、問到你們的局長，沒有人敢做決定，而且他們也承認。我告訴你這個邏輯在哪裡，好不好？我們臺中市這個是個案，但是你可以去談通案，這個是你要用政策來拍板定案喔！2月29號的是4年才過一次生日，結果當他屆齡的時候，要申請勞保退休的時候，連他的退休金都要吃虧，你知道為什麼嗎？有兩個模式，第一個，這個個案的年資已經四十二年多了，他申請提早退休，他滿60歲，所以按照規定，滿60歲他就可以申請提早退休，結果因為他是2月29號出生，也就是在這個個案裡面，他明明已經屆齡滿60歲了，但是勞保局不讓他提出申請，你們說要3月1號才能申請。部長，你會講說3月1號申請有什麼不對，有！為什麼？因為如果在你們認定裡面他只能3月1號提出申請，很抱歉，他申請的退休金少了一個基數，他3月提出申請，4月才能領，所以他少領了一個月。","在你們現在的勞保制度裡面是這樣子，那不是只有在提早申請退休的2月29號出生的勞工才這樣子喔！是包括屆齡滿65歲要申請退休的2月29號出生的勞工也一樣，你們讓滿65歲以上的勞工可以申請退休，但他2月29號出生，你們說對不起，還是讓他3月1號才能夠申請，3月1號申請會影響他的又是什麼？也是一樣，他的退休金的權益，他少領了，但行政程序法裡面，明明所有政府的施政、所有制度法規都應該是人民的權益要從優、從利、從寬來認定，為什麼你們在勞保退休請領的年齡認定上要這麼的嚴苛？這是第一點。","第二點，你們的承辦告訴我，你們也是依據民法來推斷，那我就要說，你們引用的是民法第一百二十一條，是對你們有利、對政府機關有利，是最便宜行事的推斷方式，你們為什麼不引用民法第一百二十四條，裡面對於年齡的認定是年齡自出生之日起算，第一百二十四條是對勞工、對人民有利的，你們為什麼不採用？為什麼不採計？為什麼不認定？而是引用對行政單位最便宜行事的民法第一百二十一條，而且還不是你們自己勞動部的一個行政命令的解釋，而是拿其他部會其他制度的行政命令的解釋來引用。","部長，我覺得這一件事也許對公務機關來講是小事，可是對勞工來講，這是一件大事啊！"],["何部長佩珊：是，當然、當然。"],["何委員欣純：是不是？"],["何部長佩珊：對，我們來檢討，好不好？"],["何委員欣純：拜託部長。"],["何部長佩珊：我來檢討看看。"],["何委員欣純：我覺得從人民的角度、從勞工權益的角度，這一件事情我覺得應該要……"],["何部長佩珊：對，要還給他們該有的。"],["何委員欣純：要還給他們應該有的權益，不能說以前是這樣子的慣例，所以你們現在就一直依循下去，那吃虧的永遠都是2月29號出生的勞工，好不好？"],["何部長佩珊：好。"],["何委員欣純：部長，再拜託你，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝何欣純委員。","接下來請黃珊珊委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":464,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-17","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","盧縣一","蘇清泉","王育敏","涂權吉","林淑芬","王正旭","鄭天財Sra 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00:00:52,760\n合併了之後會變成是一個獨佔市場的一個局面那我等一下也要去經濟委員會問一下公平會但是呢今天在我們胃環就是要就叫我們何部長在勞動權益上這些外送平台的外送人員我知道呢從過去的許部長到現在我們已經喝咖啡然後開了一些座談會議開了好幾次好像五次還六次對不對對那\n\n3\n00:00:54,241 --> 00:00:57,943\n委員現在發生的一個新的形式就是他們提出合併那麼其實他們提出合併的過程必須政府機關審查\n\n4\n00:01:15,071 --> 00:01:15,632\n一定要的,是是是\n\n5\n00:01:31,091 --> 00:01:48,355\n現在正在經濟委員會我看到公平會主委他的態度推脫了那呢也沒有堅定的一個立場而且呢都推給呢目前的真的收件要求兩大平台來補件那未來的都推給這個審議委員會那我認為我們作為這個政府機關的第一個公權力要拿出來第二個呢\n\n6\n00:01:54,436 --> 00:02:00,901\n對於各方的一個利益權益意見我們都要做一個強烈的主張主張什麼第一個維護勞權外送人員的勞動權益跟他的安全第二個我們對於這個兩大平台的合併之後的一個市場變成獨佔\n\n7\n00:02:12,910 --> 00:02:15,112\n這樣子一個經濟模式對於消費者的權益對於餐飲業小吃店小店家的一個權益我覺得這個都是政府該跨部會去做的事情絕對不是說那是審議委員會的事所以部長要硬起來\n\n8\n00:02:29,167 --> 00:02:57,810\n要主張要主動去要求公平會在審議的過程裡面我們勞動部對於外送平台的一個外送人員的一個權益一定要保障一定要發出聲音拜託部長第二個我發現了一個對你的期許就是我們法規的運用要確保勞工的最佳利益這樣子部長你應該認同吧當然我最近發現一個這個不是個案2月29號出生的勞工他衰嗎\n\n9\n00:02:59,107 --> 00:03:01,610\n部長你可能看到這句話你會覺得很納悶為什麼跟勞動部有關係來接下來我們現在所有2月29日出生的勞工他的權益受損這一件事情我從基層的承辦人員問到你們的課長問到你們的組長問到你們的市長問到你們的這個局長沒有人敢\n\n10\n00:03:22,884 --> 00:03:46,373\n做決定而且他們也承認我告訴你這個邏輯在哪裡好不好我們台中市這個是個案但是你可以去談通案這個是你要政策來判定案2月29日4年才過一次生日結果當他借齡滿的時候要申請勞保的一個退休的時候連他的退休金都要被吃虧都要吃虧為什麼你知道嗎有兩個模式一個呢我呢\n\n11\n00:03:51,720 --> 00:04:16,242\n這個個案他的年紀已經42年多了那呢他申請提早退休所以他滿60歲按照規定滿60歲他都可以申請提早退休結果呢因為他是2月29號出生也就是在這個個案裡面他明明已經屆年滿60歲了但是呢你們勞保局不給他提出申請你說呢要3月1號才能申請\n\n12\n00:04:17,623 --> 00:04:35,365\n部長你有講說3月1號申請有什麼不對有為什麼因為呢如果在你們認定裡面他只能3月1號提出申請很抱歉他的申請的退休金少了一個基數他3月提出申請4月才能領所以呢他少領了一個月\n\n13\n00:04:37,489 --> 00:05:04,352\n在你們現在的勞保制度裡面是這樣子那不是只有在提早申請退休的這個2月29日出生的勞工才這樣子喔是包括介林滿65歲我要申請退休的2月29日出生的勞工也一樣也一樣你們呢讓滿65歲以上可以申請退休的勞工他2月29日出生你說對不起喔我呢還是讓你3月1日才能夠申請\n\n14\n00:05:06,067 --> 00:05:15,740\n三月一號申請他影響他又是什麼也是一樣他的退休金的權益他掃領了他掃領了是那我們\n\n15\n00:05:17,352 --> 00:05:35,494\n明明行政程序法裡面所有政府的施政所有制度法規都應該從人民的權益要從優從利從寬來認定為什麼我們在勞保的這個退休的勤領的年齡的認定上我們要這麼的嚴苛這第一點第二點你們的承辦\n\n16\n00:05:36,095 --> 00:05:56,985\n告訴我我們是依據民法來推斷那我就要說你們引用的是民法的第121條是對你們有利對政府機關有利最便宜形式的推斷方式你為什麼不從民法第124條裡面他對於年齡的認定年齡至出生之日期算這一條124條是對勞工對人民有利的你們為什麼不採用為什麼不採記為什麼不認定\n\n17\n00:06:05,799 --> 00:06:20,705\n而是從對行政單位最便宜行事的民法121條而且還不是你們自己勞動部的一個行政命令的解釋而且是用其他部會其他部制度的一個解釋行政命令來\n\n18\n00:06:24,011 --> 00:06:35,580\n任用?所以部長我覺得這一件事也許對我們公務機關來講這叫小事啦可是對勞工來講這是一件大事啊是當然當然是不是我們來檢討好不好我來檢討看看我覺得\n\n19\n00:06:40,123 --> 00:06:40,723\n接下來請黃珊珊委員發言\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3648\t8050\t謝謝主席黃昭瑋我們是不是請何佩珊部長請何部長委員好部長先恭喜啦但是也是期許啦因為還有很多的挑戰在我們的面前那第一個就是最近紛紛擾擾的有關這個兩大外送平台Obereats and Foodpanda這個\n28191\t52760\t合併了之後會變成是一個獨佔市場的一個局面那我等一下也要去經濟委員會問一下公平會但是呢今天在我們胃環就是要就叫我們何部長在勞動權益上這些外送平台的外送人員我知道呢從過去的許部長到現在我們已經喝咖啡然後開了一些座談會議開了好幾次好像五次還六次對不對對那\n54241\t57943\t委員現在發生的一個新的形式就是他們提出合併那麼其實他們提出合併的過程必須政府機關審查\n75071\t75632\t一定要的,是是是\n91091\t108355\t現在正在經濟委員會我看到公平會主委他的態度推脫了那呢也沒有堅定的一個立場而且呢都推給呢目前的真的收件要求兩大平台來補件那未來的都推給這個審議委員會那我認為我們作為這個政府機關的第一個公權力要拿出來第二個呢\n114436\t120901\t對於各方的一個利益權益意見我們都要做一個強烈的主張主張什麼第一個維護勞權外送人員的勞動權益跟他的安全第二個我們對於這個兩大平台的合併之後的一個市場變成獨佔\n132910\t135112\t這樣子一個經濟模式對於消費者的權益對於餐飲業小吃店小店家的一個權益我覺得這個都是政府該跨部會去做的事情絕對不是說那是審議委員會的事所以部長要硬起來\n149167\t177810\t要主張要主動去要求公平會在審議的過程裡面我們勞動部對於外送平台的一個外送人員的一個權益一定要保障一定要發出聲音拜託部長第二個我發現了一個對你的期許就是我們法規的運用要確保勞工的最佳利益這樣子部長你應該認同吧當然我最近發現一個這個不是個案2月29號出生的勞工他衰嗎\n179107\t181610\t部長你可能看到這句話你會覺得很納悶為什麼跟勞動部有關係來接下來我們現在所有2月29日出生的勞工他的權益受損這一件事情我從基層的承辦人員問到你們的課長問到你們的組長問到你們的市長問到你們的這個局長沒有人敢\n202884\t226373\t做決定而且他們也承認我告訴你這個邏輯在哪裡好不好我們台中市這個是個案但是你可以去談通案這個是你要政策來判定案2月29日4年才過一次生日結果當他借齡滿的時候要申請勞保的一個退休的時候連他的退休金都要被吃虧都要吃虧為什麼你知道嗎有兩個模式一個呢我呢\n231720\t256242\t這個個案他的年紀已經42年多了那呢他申請提早退休所以他滿60歲按照規定滿60歲他都可以申請提早退休結果呢因為他是2月29號出生也就是在這個個案裡面他明明已經屆年滿60歲了但是呢你們勞保局不給他提出申請你說呢要3月1號才能申請\n257623\t275365\t部長你有講說3月1號申請有什麼不對有為什麼因為呢如果在你們認定裡面他只能3月1號提出申請很抱歉他的申請的退休金少了一個基數他3月提出申請4月才能領所以呢他少領了一個月\n277489\t304352\t在你們現在的勞保制度裡面是這樣子那不是只有在提早申請退休的這個2月29日出生的勞工才這樣子喔是包括介林滿65歲我要申請退休的2月29日出生的勞工也一樣也一樣你們呢讓滿65歲以上可以申請退休的勞工他2月29日出生你說對不起喔我呢還是讓你3月1日才能夠申請\n306067\t315740\t三月一號申請他影響他又是什麼也是一樣他的退休金的權益他掃領了他掃領了是那我們\n317352\t335494\t明明行政程序法裡面所有政府的施政所有制度法規都應該從人民的權益要從優從利從寬來認定為什麼我們在勞保的這個退休的勤領的年齡的認定上我們要這麼的嚴苛這第一點第二點你們的承辦\n336095\t356985\t告訴我我們是依據民法來推斷那我就要說你們引用的是民法的第121條是對你們有利對政府機關有利最便宜形式的推斷方式你為什麼不從民法第124條裡面他對於年齡的認定年齡至出生之日期算這一條124條是對勞工對人民有利的你們為什麼不採用為什麼不採記為什麼不認定\n365799\t380705\t而是從對行政單位最便宜行事的民法121條而且還不是你們自己勞動部的一個行政命令的解釋而且是用其他部會其他部制度的一個解釋行政命令來\n384011\t395580\t任用?所以部長我覺得這一件事也許對我們公務機關來講這叫小事啦可是對勞工來講這是一件大事啊是當然當然是不是我們來檢討好不好我來檢討看看我覺得\n400123\t400723\t接下來請黃珊珊委員發言\n","txt":"謝謝主席黃昭瑋我們是不是請何佩珊部長請何部長委員好部長先恭喜啦但是也是期許啦因為還有很多的挑戰在我們的面前那第一個就是最近紛紛擾擾的有關這個兩大外送平台Obereats and Foodpanda這個\n合併了之後會變成是一個獨佔市場的一個局面那我等一下也要去經濟委員會問一下公平會但是呢今天在我們胃環就是要就叫我們何部長在勞動權益上這些外送平台的外送人員我知道呢從過去的許部長到現在我們已經喝咖啡然後開了一些座談會議開了好幾次好像五次還六次對不對對那\n委員現在發生的一個新的形式就是他們提出合併那麼其實他們提出合併的過程必須政府機關審查\n一定要的,是是是\n現在正在經濟委員會我看到公平會主委他的態度推脫了那呢也沒有堅定的一個立場而且呢都推給呢目前的真的收件要求兩大平台來補件那未來的都推給這個審議委員會那我認為我們作為這個政府機關的第一個公權力要拿出來第二個呢\n對於各方的一個利益權益意見我們都要做一個強烈的主張主張什麼第一個維護勞權外送人員的勞動權益跟他的安全第二個我們對於這個兩大平台的合併之後的一個市場變成獨佔\n這樣子一個經濟模式對於消費者的權益對於餐飲業小吃店小店家的一個權益我覺得這個都是政府該跨部會去做的事情絕對不是說那是審議委員會的事所以部長要硬起來\n要主張要主動去要求公平會在審議的過程裡面我們勞動部對於外送平台的一個外送人員的一個權益一定要保障一定要發出聲音拜託部長第二個我發現了一個對你的期許就是我們法規的運用要確保勞工的最佳利益這樣子部長你應該認同吧當然我最近發現一個這個不是個案2月29號出生的勞工他衰嗎\n部長你可能看到這句話你會覺得很納悶為什麼跟勞動部有關係來接下來我們現在所有2月29日出生的勞工他的權益受損這一件事情我從基層的承辦人員問到你們的課長問到你們的組長問到你們的市長問到你們的這個局長沒有人敢\n做決定而且他們也承認我告訴你這個邏輯在哪裡好不好我們台中市這個是個案但是你可以去談通案這個是你要政策來判定案2月29日4年才過一次生日結果當他借齡滿的時候要申請勞保的一個退休的時候連他的退休金都要被吃虧都要吃虧為什麼你知道嗎有兩個模式一個呢我呢\n這個個案他的年紀已經42年多了那呢他申請提早退休所以他滿60歲按照規定滿60歲他都可以申請提早退休結果呢因為他是2月29號出生也就是在這個個案裡面他明明已經屆年滿60歲了但是呢你們勞保局不給他提出申請你說呢要3月1號才能申請\n部長你有講說3月1號申請有什麼不對有為什麼因為呢如果在你們認定裡面他只能3月1號提出申請很抱歉他的申請的退休金少了一個基數他3月提出申請4月才能領所以呢他少領了一個月\n在你們現在的勞保制度裡面是這樣子那不是只有在提早申請退休的這個2月29日出生的勞工才這樣子喔是包括介林滿65歲我要申請退休的2月29日出生的勞工也一樣也一樣你們呢讓滿65歲以上可以申請退休的勞工他2月29日出生你說對不起喔我呢還是讓你3月1日才能夠申請\n三月一號申請他影響他又是什麼也是一樣他的退休金的權益他掃領了他掃領了是那我們\n明明行政程序法裡面所有政府的施政所有制度法規都應該從人民的權益要從優從利從寬來認定為什麼我們在勞保的這個退休的勤領的年齡的認定上我們要這麼的嚴苛這第一點第二點你們的承辦\n告訴我我們是依據民法來推斷那我就要說你們引用的是民法的第121條是對你們有利對政府機關有利最便宜形式的推斷方式你為什麼不從民法第124條裡面他對於年齡的認定年齡至出生之日期算這一條124條是對勞工對人民有利的你們為什麼不採用為什麼不採記為什麼不認定\n而是從對行政單位最便宜行事的民法121條而且還不是你們自己勞動部的一個行政命令的解釋而且是用其他部會其他部制度的一個解釋行政命令來\n任用?所以部長我覺得這一件事也許對我們公務機關來講這叫小事啦可是對勞工來講這是一件大事啊是當然當然是不是我們來檢討好不好我來檢討看看我覺得\n接下來請黃珊珊委員發言\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.648 --> 00:08.050\n謝謝主席黃昭瑋我們是不是請何佩珊部長請何部長委員好部長先恭喜啦但是也是期許啦因為還有很多的挑戰在我們的面前那第一個就是最近紛紛擾擾的有關這個兩大外送平台ObereatsandFoodpanda這個\n\n00:28.191 --> 00:52.760\n合併了之後會變成是一個獨佔市場的一個局面那我等一下也要去經濟委員會問一下公平會但是呢今天在我們胃環就是要就叫我們何部長在勞動權益上這些外送平台的外送人員我知道呢從過去的許部長到現在我們已經喝咖啡然後開了一些座談會議開了好幾次好像五次還六次對不對對那\n\n00:54.241 --> 00:57.943\n委員現在發生的一個新的形式就是他們提出合併那麼其實他們提出合併的過程必須政府機關審查\n\n01:15.071 --> 01:15.632\n一定要的,是是是\n\n01:31.091 --> 01:48.355\n現在正在經濟委員會我看到公平會主委他的態度推脫了那呢也沒有堅定的一個立場而且呢都推給呢目前的真的收件要求兩大平台來補件那未來的都推給這個審議委員會那我認為我們作為這個政府機關的第一個公權力要拿出來第二個呢\n\n01:54.436 --> 02:00.901\n對於各方的一個利益權益意見我們都要做一個強烈的主張主張什麼第一個維護勞權外送人員的勞動權益跟他的安全第二個我們對於這個兩大平台的合併之後的一個市場變成獨佔\n\n02:12.910 --> 02:15.112\n這樣子一個經濟模式對於消費者的權益對於餐飲業小吃店小店家的一個權益我覺得這個都是政府該跨部會去做的事情絕對不是說那是審議委員會的事所以部長要硬起來\n\n02:29.167 --> 02:57.810\n要主張要主動去要求公平會在審議的過程裡面我們勞動部對於外送平台的一個外送人員的一個權益一定要保障一定要發出聲音拜託部長第二個我發現了一個對你的期許就是我們法規的運用要確保勞工的最佳利益這樣子部長你應該認同吧當然我最近發現一個這個不是個案2月29號出生的勞工他衰嗎\n\n02:59.107 --> 03:01.610\n部長你可能看到這句話你會覺得很納悶為什麼跟勞動部有關係來接下來我們現在所有2月29日出生的勞工他的權益受損這一件事情我從基層的承辦人員問到你們的課長問到你們的組長問到你們的市長問到你們的這個局長沒有人敢\n\n03:22.884 --> 03:46.373\n做決定而且他們也承認我告訴你這個邏輯在哪裡好不好我們台中市這個是個案但是你可以去談通案這個是你要政策來判定案2月29日4年才過一次生日結果當他借齡滿的時候要申請勞保的一個退休的時候連他的退休金都要被吃虧都要吃虧為什麼你知道嗎有兩個模式一個呢我呢\n\n03:51.720 --> 04:16.242\n這個個案他的年紀已經42年多了那呢他申請提早退休所以他滿60歲按照規定滿60歲他都可以申請提早退休結果呢因為他是2月29號出生也就是在這個個案裡面他明明已經屆年滿60歲了但是呢你們勞保局不給他提出申請你說呢要3月1號才能申請\n\n04:17.623 --> 04:35.365\n部長你有講說3月1號申請有什麼不對有為什麼因為呢如果在你們認定裡面他只能3月1號提出申請很抱歉他的申請的退休金少了一個基數他3月提出申請4月才能領所以呢他少領了一個月\n\n04:37.489 --> 05:04.352\n在你們現在的勞保制度裡面是這樣子那不是只有在提早申請退休的這個2月29日出生的勞工才這樣子喔是包括介林滿65歲我要申請退休的2月29日出生的勞工也一樣也一樣你們呢讓滿65歲以上可以申請退休的勞工他2月29日出生你說對不起喔我呢還是讓你3月1日才能夠申請\n\n05:06.067 --> 05:15.740\n三月一號申請他影響他又是什麼也是一樣他的退休金的權益他掃領了他掃領了是那我們\n\n05:17.352 --> 05:35.494\n明明行政程序法裡面所有政府的施政所有制度法規都應該從人民的權益要從優從利從寬來認定為什麼我們在勞保的這個退休的勤領的年齡的認定上我們要這麼的嚴苛這第一點第二點你們的承辦\n\n05:36.095 --> 05:56.985\n告訴我我們是依據民法來推斷那我就要說你們引用的是民法的第121條是對你們有利對政府機關有利最便宜形式的推斷方式你為什麼不從民法第124條裡面他對於年齡的認定年齡至出生之日期算這一條124條是對勞工對人民有利的你們為什麼不採用為什麼不採記為什麼不認定\n\n06:05.799 --> 06:20.705\n而是從對行政單位最便宜行事的民法121條而且還不是你們自己勞動部的一個行政命令的解釋而且是用其他部會其他部制度的一個解釋行政命令來\n\n06:24.011 --> 06:35.580\n任用?所以部長我覺得這一件事也許對我們公務機關來講這叫小事啦可是對勞工來講這是一件大事啊是當然當然是不是我們來檢討好不好我來檢討看看我覺得\n\n06:40.123 --> 06:40.723\n接下來請黃珊珊委員發言\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.648,"end":8.05,"text":"謝謝主席黃昭瑋我們是不是請何佩珊部長請何部長委員好部長先恭喜啦但是也是期許啦因為還有很多的挑戰在我們的面前那第一個就是最近紛紛擾擾的有關這個兩大外送平台Obereats and Foodpanda這個"},{"start":28.191,"end":52.76,"text":"合併了之後會變成是一個獨佔市場的一個局面那我等一下也要去經濟委員會問一下公平會但是呢今天在我們胃環就是要就叫我們何部長在勞動權益上這些外送平台的外送人員我知道呢從過去的許部長到現在我們已經喝咖啡然後開了一些座談會議開了好幾次好像五次還六次對不對對那"},{"start":54.241,"end":57.943,"text":"委員現在發生的一個新的形式就是他們提出合併那麼其實他們提出合併的過程必須政府機關審查"},{"start":75.071,"end":75.632,"text":"一定要的,是是是"},{"start":91.091,"end":108.355,"text":"現在正在經濟委員會我看到公平會主委他的態度推脫了那呢也沒有堅定的一個立場而且呢都推給呢目前的真的收件要求兩大平台來補件那未來的都推給這個審議委員會那我認為我們作為這個政府機關的第一個公權力要拿出來第二個呢"},{"start":114.436,"end":120.901,"text":"對於各方的一個利益權益意見我們都要做一個強烈的主張主張什麼第一個維護勞權外送人員的勞動權益跟他的安全第二個我們對於這個兩大平台的合併之後的一個市場變成獨佔"},{"start":132.91,"end":135.112,"text":"這樣子一個經濟模式對於消費者的權益對於餐飲業小吃店小店家的一個權益我覺得這個都是政府該跨部會去做的事情絕對不是說那是審議委員會的事所以部長要硬起來"},{"start":149.167,"end":177.81,"text":"要主張要主動去要求公平會在審議的過程裡面我們勞動部對於外送平台的一個外送人員的一個權益一定要保障一定要發出聲音拜託部長第二個我發現了一個對你的期許就是我們法規的運用要確保勞工的最佳利益這樣子部長你應該認同吧當然我最近發現一個這個不是個案2月29號出生的勞工他衰嗎"},{"start":179.107,"end":181.61,"text":"部長你可能看到這句話你會覺得很納悶為什麼跟勞動部有關係來接下來我們現在所有2月29日出生的勞工他的權益受損這一件事情我從基層的承辦人員問到你們的課長問到你們的組長問到你們的市長問到你們的這個局長沒有人敢"},{"start":202.884,"end":226.373,"text":"做決定而且他們也承認我告訴你這個邏輯在哪裡好不好我們台中市這個是個案但是你可以去談通案這個是你要政策來判定案2月29日4年才過一次生日結果當他借齡滿的時候要申請勞保的一個退休的時候連他的退休金都要被吃虧都要吃虧為什麼你知道嗎有兩個模式一個呢我呢"},{"start":231.72,"end":256.242,"text":"這個個案他的年紀已經42年多了那呢他申請提早退休所以他滿60歲按照規定滿60歲他都可以申請提早退休結果呢因為他是2月29號出生也就是在這個個案裡面他明明已經屆年滿60歲了但是呢你們勞保局不給他提出申請你說呢要3月1號才能申請"},{"start":257.623,"end":275.365,"text":"部長你有講說3月1號申請有什麼不對有為什麼因為呢如果在你們認定裡面他只能3月1號提出申請很抱歉他的申請的退休金少了一個基數他3月提出申請4月才能領所以呢他少領了一個月"},{"start":277.489,"end":304.352,"text":"在你們現在的勞保制度裡面是這樣子那不是只有在提早申請退休的這個2月29日出生的勞工才這樣子喔是包括介林滿65歲我要申請退休的2月29日出生的勞工也一樣也一樣你們呢讓滿65歲以上可以申請退休的勞工他2月29日出生你說對不起喔我呢還是讓你3月1日才能夠申請"},{"start":306.067,"end":315.74,"text":"三月一號申請他影響他又是什麼也是一樣他的退休金的權益他掃領了他掃領了是那我們"},{"start":317.352,"end":335.494,"text":"明明行政程序法裡面所有政府的施政所有制度法規都應該從人民的權益要從優從利從寬來認定為什麼我們在勞保的這個退休的勤領的年齡的認定上我們要這麼的嚴苛這第一點第二點你們的承辦"},{"start":336.095,"end":356.985,"text":"告訴我我們是依據民法來推斷那我就要說你們引用的是民法的第121條是對你們有利對政府機關有利最便宜形式的推斷方式你為什麼不從民法第124條裡面他對於年齡的認定年齡至出生之日期算這一條124條是對勞工對人民有利的你們為什麼不採用為什麼不採記為什麼不認定"},{"start":365.799,"end":380.705,"text":"而是從對行政單位最便宜行事的民法121條而且還不是你們自己勞動部的一個行政命令的解釋而且是用其他部會其他部制度的一個解釋行政命令來"},{"start":384.011,"end":395.58,"text":"任用?所以部長我覺得這一件事也許對我們公務機關來講這叫小事啦可是對勞工來講這是一件大事啊是當然當然是不是我們來檢討好不好我來檢討看看我覺得"},{"start":400.123,"end":400.723,"text":"接下來請黃珊珊委員發言"}]}}}}