{"id":152907,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152907","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d339c8d1909fa453174f65221dead6079f2fcaa3dc194f73d34e896d657c5e838c3f6bbd0a8feaf75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃珊珊","委員發言時間":"11:14:19 - 11:20:06","影片長度":"00:05:47","會議時間":"2024-05-23T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【5月22日、23日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-23","duration":347,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第17次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":17,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-17"},"end_time":"2024-05-23T11:20:06+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-23T11:14:19+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":712,"blocks":[["黃委員珊珊：（11時14分）謝謝主席，我請部長。"],["主席：請何部長。"],["何部長佩珊：委員好。"],["黃委員珊珊：部長早。我想今天大家都很關心外送平臺的問題，我想問一下部長，你認為外送員是不是勞工？"],["何部長佩珊：他當然是勞工啊！"],["黃委員珊珊：但是他是非典型的勞工，對吧？"],["何部長佩珊：可以這麼說。"],["黃委員珊珊：非典型的勞工現在會越來越多，但是我們一直都只有一套法律，叫做勞動基準法，所以常常會有假承攬真僱傭的事實。同樣的，外送員不用朝九晚五打卡，但是他們是被app24小時監控著，甚至顧客的評價比一般的僱傭更嚴格，也就是這種非傳統的勞工其實已經存在新興的社會裡面有很多不同的面向，我們只用一套勞動基準法，能不能適用所有的勞工？"],["何部長佩珊：確實有疏漏啦！"],["黃委員珊珊：若他發生職災怎麼辦？"],["何部長佩珊：外送員有加入職業工會，他會加入我們的職災保護法。"],["黃委員珊珊：對，他用職災，但他們就是無固定雇主的意思嘛！"],["何部長佩珊：對。"],["黃委員珊珊：也就是他用工會的方式。我現在的問題是，其實在這麼多年，尤其現在已經將近14萬個外送員，他們各自不同的權利義務都是用契約關係，因為我們來自臺北市，臺北市很早就訂定了外送平台業者管理自治條例，全國各縣市也都有訂定各自的相關條例。部長，我只想問你，為什麼中央不肯訂定專法？"],["何部長佩珊：應該不是不肯訂定專法，而是……"],["黃委員珊珊：為什麼一直沒有訂定專法？專法在上一屆的台灣民眾黨賴香伶委員很早就提了，因為他也是臺北市的勞動局長。專法裡面其實非常重要，它有幾個面向，第一個，要有傷害保險，不只是雇主，平臺業者也要出傷害保險的錢；第二個，要有職災的通報；第三個，要有教育的訓練；最重要的是，要揭露所有跟勞動有關的條件，包括他們的抽成、他們的酬金不可以片面的變動。這些在地方政府相關的自治條例裡面都規定了，這些東西並不困難，中央訂定專法也不困難，因為既然不能用勞動基準法規範外送員，所以成立一個專法可能是唯一的方法。","我要說的是，如果我們全部都糾結在我們只能有一套勞動基準法，我們是沒有辦法面對未來多元新興的社會型態，更何況將來的工作永遠都有所謂的非典，現在的人不上班，在家工作，不打卡、不進辦公室，他一樣是僱傭，以後很多類型的工作都會碰到這樣的狀況。所以我希望外送員會成為臺灣第一個認知他是勞工，也給他相對的保障，給他一個專法，更何況各地方政府都已經訂定了專法，這個專法只是要求更公開、更透明、更有保障，部長，你同意嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：我當然非常同意委員用一個必須要有法令的形式來保護外送員，這個我絕對認同。"],["黃委員珊珊：但是之前所有的人在這些所謂公開的公共政策網路參與平臺上面爭取，然後行政院的回復是，因為涉及不同部門主管職責，要審慎研議。一審慎研議，又過了4年，所以……"],["何部長佩珊：跟委員報告，這個……"],["黃委員珊珊：我希望新的部長有新的想法。"],["何部長佩珊：是，我來努力，可是重點就是要對外送員有幫助啦！主要是他們彼此之間的共識，甚至都還沒有辦法完全凝聚。"],["黃委員珊珊：為什麼地方政府已經擬了？表示我們規定的是最基本平臺業者的責任，而不是外送員個人的意見，我們給他們最基本的保障，就比照勞動基準法一樣……"],["何部長佩珊：好，我來……"],["黃委員珊珊：我剛剛講的，給他傷害保險吧！給他職災通報吧！給他教育訓練吧！"],["何部長佩珊：這些都有。"],["黃委員珊珊：給他平臺揭露資訊公開透明吧！最重要的是，他的薪酬不可以片面變更或降低，而不經過相關的程序，對吧？"],["何部長佩珊：對，當然，委員，其實前3樣都有。"],["黃委員珊珊：我們如果從勞基法的角度去面對，不要只是糾結在我們只有一部勞動基準法，而是我們將來非典工作有各種不同的面向，全世界都在面對新的狀態。"],["何部長佩珊：我跟委員解釋，您這個關心我非常肯定，是這樣的，主要是外送員要跟平臺談判，要有助於他們跟平臺談判，那麼這個專法到底有沒有幫助，這個真的是他們之間彼此大概……"],["黃委員珊珊：到目前為止，在六都的城市裡面，至少外送員不用擔心自己出狀況的時候沒有人可以求助啦！"],["何部長佩珊：是啦！當然、當然。"],["黃委員珊珊：現在就是變成他們沒有談判能力，所以只好靠地方政府去幫忙，如果中央政府願意伸出援手，他們不會沒有談判能力。"],["何部長佩珊：對，所以我們現在一定要盡全力來幫助他們談判。"],["黃委員珊珊：好不好？"],["何部長佩珊：好。"],["黃委員珊珊：部長，我想捍衛勞工權益跟促進勞資和諧是勞動部最基本的責任，所以捍衛勞工權益也是我們對新部長的期許。"],["何部長佩珊：好。"],["黃委員珊珊：謝謝。"],["何部長佩珊：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝黃珊珊委員的發言。在這邊作以下宣告：稍後於陳亭妃委員質詢結束後，處理臨時提案1案。","現在請牛煦庭委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":464,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-17","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","盧縣一","蘇清泉","王育敏","涂權吉","林淑芬","王正旭","鄭天財Sra 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00:00:01,902\n外送員是不是勞工?\n\n2\n00:00:19,042 --> 00:00:46,475\n她當然是勞工啊她當然是勞工但是她是非典型的勞工對吧可以這麼說對非典型的勞工現在會越來越多而且我們但是我們一直都只有一套法律叫做勞動基準法所以常常會有假、承攬、徵、雇佣的事實那同樣的外送員不用朝九晚五打卡但是他們是被APP24小時監控著甚至顧客的評價\n\n3\n00:01:12,041 --> 00:01:31,681\n委員會加入職業工會,會加入我們職災保護法?他們就沒有無固定雇主的意思,也就是用工會的方式我現在的問題是,其實在這麼多年尤其現在已經將近14萬個外送員他們各自不同的權利義務都是用契約關係,但是\n\n4\n00:01:34,025 --> 00:01:48,611\n在因為我們來自臺北市我們臺北市很早就訂了外送員管理資質條例那全省各縣市全國各縣市也都有訂各自的相關的條例部長我只想問你為什麼中央不肯訂專法\n\n5\n00:01:50,539 --> 00:02:07,759\n不是說應該不是不肯定專法為什麼一直沒有定專法專法在上一個上一屆的臺灣民眾黨賴香林委員很早就提了因為他也是臺北市的勞動局長對專法裡面其實非常重要他有幾個面向第一個要有傷害保險\n\n6\n00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:30,691\n顧主要用不管是顧主平台業者要出傷害保險的錢第二個要有職災的通報第三個要有教育的訓練最重要的是要揭露所有跟勞動有關的條件包括他們的抽成他們的酬金不可以片面的變動這些在地方政府相關的自治條裡面都規定了\n\n7\n00:02:31,571 --> 00:02:42,677\n這些東西並不困難中央定專法也不困難因為你既然不能用勞動基準法規範外送員成立一個專法可能是唯一的方法\n\n8\n00:02:43,530 --> 00:03:01,904\n我要說的是如果我們全部都在糾結在我們只能有一套勞動基準法我們是沒有辦法面對未來多元新興的社會形態更何況將來的工作永遠都有所謂的非典現在的人不上班在家工作不打卡\n\n9\n00:03:02,825 --> 00:03:26,018\n不進辦公室他一樣是僱傭以後很多類型的工作都會碰到這樣的狀況所以外送員我希望他會成為臺灣第一個認知他是勞工也給他相對保障給他一個專法更何況各地方政府都已經訂了專法這個專法只是要求更公開更透明更有保障部長你同意嗎\n\n10\n00:03:27,058 --> 00:03:53,555\n我當然這個非常同意委員這個用一個必須要一個法律的形式來保護外送員但是這個我覺得之前所有的人在這些所謂的公開的相關的平台上面公共政策網路參與平台上面爭取然後我們的行政院回覆是因為涉及不同部門主管者要審慎研議一審慎研議又過了四年\n\n11\n00:03:54,415 --> 00:04:19,985\n所以我希望新的部長有新的想法是我來努力可是重點就是說要對外送員這個有幫助啦主要是他們彼此之間的共識甚至都還沒有辦法完全離聚所以為什麼地方政府已經離了表示我們只規定最基本平台業者的責任而不是外送員個人的意見我們給他最基本的保障就比照勞動基準法一樣\n\n12\n00:04:21,826 --> 00:04:44,808\n剛剛講的﹖給他傷害保險吧﹖給他職災通報吧﹖給他教育訓練吧﹖給他平台揭露資訊公開透明吧﹖最重要的是他的薪酬不可以片面變更或降低而不經過相關的程序對吧對當然委員其實前三項都有我們如果從勞基法的角度我們去\n\n13\n00:04:45,629 --> 00:04:47,131\n我跟委員解釋齁您這個關係我非常肯定而是這樣\n\n14\n00:05:02,347 --> 00:05:29,761\n主要是外送員要跟平台談判要有助於他們跟平台談判那麼這個專法到底有沒有幫助這個是真的是他們之間彼此至少目前為止在這個六大都的城市裡面至少外送員不用擔心自己出狀況的時候沒有人求助現在就是變成他們沒有談判能力所以只好靠地方政府去幫忙如果中央政府願意伸出援手他們不會沒有談判能力\n\n15\n00:05:30,501 --> 00:05:30,781\n謝謝黃珊珊\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1482\t1902\t外送員是不是勞工?\n19042\t46475\t她當然是勞工啊她當然是勞工但是她是非典型的勞工對吧可以這麼說對非典型的勞工現在會越來越多而且我們但是我們一直都只有一套法律叫做勞動基準法所以常常會有假、承攬、徵、雇佣的事實那同樣的外送員不用朝九晚五打卡但是他們是被APP24小時監控著甚至顧客的評價\n47415\t70060\t﹏﹏\n72041\t91681\t委員會加入職業工會,會加入我們職災保護法?他們就沒有無固定雇主的意思,也就是用工會的方式我現在的問題是,其實在這麼多年尤其現在已經將近14萬個外送員他們各自不同的權利義務都是用契約關係,但是\n94025\t108611\t在因為我們來自臺北市我們臺北市很早就訂了外送員管理資質條例那全省各縣市全國各縣市也都有訂各自的相關的條例部長我只想問你為什麼中央不肯訂專法\n110539\t127759\t不是說應該不是不肯定專法為什麼一直沒有定專法專法在上一個上一屆的臺灣民眾黨賴香林委員很早就提了因為他也是臺北市的勞動局長對專法裡面其實非常重要他有幾個面向第一個要有傷害保險\n128960\t150691\t顧主要用不管是顧主平台業者要出傷害保險的錢第二個要有職災的通報第三個要有教育的訓練最重要的是要揭露所有跟勞動有關的條件包括他們的抽成他們的酬金不可以片面的變動這些在地方政府相關的自治條裡面都規定了\n151571\t162677\t這些東西並不困難中央定專法也不困難因為你既然不能用勞動基準法規範外送員成立一個專法可能是唯一的方法\n163530\t181904\t我要說的是如果我們全部都在糾結在我們只能有一套勞動基準法我們是沒有辦法面對未來多元新興的社會形態更何況將來的工作永遠都有所謂的非典現在的人不上班在家工作不打卡\n182825\t206018\t不進辦公室他一樣是僱傭以後很多類型的工作都會碰到這樣的狀況所以外送員我希望他會成為臺灣第一個認知他是勞工也給他相對保障給他一個專法更何況各地方政府都已經訂了專法這個專法只是要求更公開更透明更有保障部長你同意嗎\n207058\t233555\t我當然這個非常同意委員這個用一個必須要一個法律的形式來保護外送員但是這個我覺得之前所有的人在這些所謂的公開的相關的平台上面公共政策網路參與平台上面爭取然後我們的行政院回覆是因為涉及不同部門主管者要審慎研議一審慎研議又過了四年\n234415\t259985\t所以我希望新的部長有新的想法是我來努力可是重點就是說要對外送員這個有幫助啦主要是他們彼此之間的共識甚至都還沒有辦法完全離聚所以為什麼地方政府已經離了表示我們只規定最基本平台業者的責任而不是外送員個人的意見我們給他最基本的保障就比照勞動基準法一樣\n261826\t284808\t剛剛講的﹖給他傷害保險吧﹖給他職災通報吧﹖給他教育訓練吧﹖給他平台揭露資訊公開透明吧﹖最重要的是他的薪酬不可以片面變更或降低而不經過相關的程序對吧對當然委員其實前三項都有我們如果從勞基法的角度我們去\n285629\t287131\t我跟委員解釋齁您這個關係我非常肯定而是這樣\n302347\t329761\t主要是外送員要跟平台談判要有助於他們跟平台談判那麼這個專法到底有沒有幫助這個是真的是他們之間彼此至少目前為止在這個六大都的城市裡面至少外送員不用擔心自己出狀況的時候沒有人求助現在就是變成他們沒有談判能力所以只好靠地方政府去幫忙如果中央政府願意伸出援手他們不會沒有談判能力\n330501\t330781\t謝謝黃珊珊\n","txt":"外送員是不是勞工?\n她當然是勞工啊她當然是勞工但是她是非典型的勞工對吧可以這麼說對非典型的勞工現在會越來越多而且我們但是我們一直都只有一套法律叫做勞動基準法所以常常會有假、承攬、徵、雇佣的事實那同樣的外送員不用朝九晚五打卡但是他們是被APP24小時監控著甚至顧客的評價\n﹏﹏\n委員會加入職業工會,會加入我們職災保護法?他們就沒有無固定雇主的意思,也就是用工會的方式我現在的問題是,其實在這麼多年尤其現在已經將近14萬個外送員他們各自不同的權利義務都是用契約關係,但是\n在因為我們來自臺北市我們臺北市很早就訂了外送員管理資質條例那全省各縣市全國各縣市也都有訂各自的相關的條例部長我只想問你為什麼中央不肯訂專法\n不是說應該不是不肯定專法為什麼一直沒有定專法專法在上一個上一屆的臺灣民眾黨賴香林委員很早就提了因為他也是臺北市的勞動局長對專法裡面其實非常重要他有幾個面向第一個要有傷害保險\n顧主要用不管是顧主平台業者要出傷害保險的錢第二個要有職災的通報第三個要有教育的訓練最重要的是要揭露所有跟勞動有關的條件包括他們的抽成他們的酬金不可以片面的變動這些在地方政府相關的自治條裡面都規定了\n這些東西並不困難中央定專法也不困難因為你既然不能用勞動基準法規範外送員成立一個專法可能是唯一的方法\n我要說的是如果我們全部都在糾結在我們只能有一套勞動基準法我們是沒有辦法面對未來多元新興的社會形態更何況將來的工作永遠都有所謂的非典現在的人不上班在家工作不打卡\n不進辦公室他一樣是僱傭以後很多類型的工作都會碰到這樣的狀況所以外送員我希望他會成為臺灣第一個認知他是勞工也給他相對保障給他一個專法更何況各地方政府都已經訂了專法這個專法只是要求更公開更透明更有保障部長你同意嗎\n我當然這個非常同意委員這個用一個必須要一個法律的形式來保護外送員但是這個我覺得之前所有的人在這些所謂的公開的相關的平台上面公共政策網路參與平台上面爭取然後我們的行政院回覆是因為涉及不同部門主管者要審慎研議一審慎研議又過了四年\n所以我希望新的部長有新的想法是我來努力可是重點就是說要對外送員這個有幫助啦主要是他們彼此之間的共識甚至都還沒有辦法完全離聚所以為什麼地方政府已經離了表示我們只規定最基本平台業者的責任而不是外送員個人的意見我們給他最基本的保障就比照勞動基準法一樣\n剛剛講的﹖給他傷害保險吧﹖給他職災通報吧﹖給他教育訓練吧﹖給他平台揭露資訊公開透明吧﹖最重要的是他的薪酬不可以片面變更或降低而不經過相關的程序對吧對當然委員其實前三項都有我們如果從勞基法的角度我們去\n我跟委員解釋齁您這個關係我非常肯定而是這樣\n主要是外送員要跟平台談判要有助於他們跟平台談判那麼這個專法到底有沒有幫助這個是真的是他們之間彼此至少目前為止在這個六大都的城市裡面至少外送員不用擔心自己出狀況的時候沒有人求助現在就是變成他們沒有談判能力所以只好靠地方政府去幫忙如果中央政府願意伸出援手他們不會沒有談判能力\n謝謝黃珊珊\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.482 --> 00:01.902\n外送員是不是勞工?\n\n00:19.042 --> 00:46.475\n她當然是勞工啊她當然是勞工但是她是非典型的勞工對吧可以這麼說對非典型的勞工現在會越來越多而且我們但是我們一直都只有一套法律叫做勞動基準法所以常常會有假、承攬、徵、雇佣的事實那同樣的外送員不用朝九晚五打卡但是他們是被APP24小時監控著甚至顧客的評價\n\n01:12.041 --> 01:31.681\n委員會加入職業工會,會加入我們職災保護法?他們就沒有無固定雇主的意思,也就是用工會的方式我現在的問題是,其實在這麼多年尤其現在已經將近14萬個外送員他們各自不同的權利義務都是用契約關係,但是\n\n01:34.025 --> 01:48.611\n在因為我們來自臺北市我們臺北市很早就訂了外送員管理資質條例那全省各縣市全國各縣市也都有訂各自的相關的條例部長我只想問你為什麼中央不肯訂專法\n\n01:50.539 --> 02:07.759\n不是說應該不是不肯定專法為什麼一直沒有定專法專法在上一個上一屆的臺灣民眾黨賴香林委員很早就提了因為他也是臺北市的勞動局長對專法裡面其實非常重要他有幾個面向第一個要有傷害保險\n\n02:08.960 --> 02:30.691\n顧主要用不管是顧主平台業者要出傷害保險的錢第二個要有職災的通報第三個要有教育的訓練最重要的是要揭露所有跟勞動有關的條件包括他們的抽成他們的酬金不可以片面的變動這些在地方政府相關的自治條裡面都規定了\n\n02:31.571 --> 02:42.677\n這些東西並不困難中央定專法也不困難因為你既然不能用勞動基準法規範外送員成立一個專法可能是唯一的方法\n\n02:43.530 --> 03:01.904\n我要說的是如果我們全部都在糾結在我們只能有一套勞動基準法我們是沒有辦法面對未來多元新興的社會形態更何況將來的工作永遠都有所謂的非典現在的人不上班在家工作不打卡\n\n03:02.825 --> 03:26.018\n不進辦公室他一樣是僱傭以後很多類型的工作都會碰到這樣的狀況所以外送員我希望他會成為臺灣第一個認知他是勞工也給他相對保障給他一個專法更何況各地方政府都已經訂了專法這個專法只是要求更公開更透明更有保障部長你同意嗎\n\n03:27.058 --> 03:53.555\n我當然這個非常同意委員這個用一個必須要一個法律的形式來保護外送員但是這個我覺得之前所有的人在這些所謂的公開的相關的平台上面公共政策網路參與平台上面爭取然後我們的行政院回覆是因為涉及不同部門主管者要審慎研議一審慎研議又過了四年\n\n03:54.415 --> 04:19.985\n所以我希望新的部長有新的想法是我來努力可是重點就是說要對外送員這個有幫助啦主要是他們彼此之間的共識甚至都還沒有辦法完全離聚所以為什麼地方政府已經離了表示我們只規定最基本平台業者的責任而不是外送員個人的意見我們給他最基本的保障就比照勞動基準法一樣\n\n04:21.826 --> 04:44.808\n剛剛講的﹖給他傷害保險吧﹖給他職災通報吧﹖給他教育訓練吧﹖給他平台揭露資訊公開透明吧﹖最重要的是他的薪酬不可以片面變更或降低而不經過相關的程序對吧對當然委員其實前三項都有我們如果從勞基法的角度我們去\n\n04:45.629 --> 04:47.131\n我跟委員解釋齁您這個關係我非常肯定而是這樣\n\n05:02.347 --> 05:29.761\n主要是外送員要跟平台談判要有助於他們跟平台談判那麼這個專法到底有沒有幫助這個是真的是他們之間彼此至少目前為止在這個六大都的城市裡面至少外送員不用擔心自己出狀況的時候沒有人求助現在就是變成他們沒有談判能力所以只好靠地方政府去幫忙如果中央政府願意伸出援手他們不會沒有談判能力\n\n05:30.501 --> 05:30.781\n謝謝黃珊珊\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.482,"end":1.902,"text":"外送員是不是勞工?"},{"start":19.042,"end":46.475,"text":"她當然是勞工啊她當然是勞工但是她是非典型的勞工對吧可以這麼說對非典型的勞工現在會越來越多而且我們但是我們一直都只有一套法律叫做勞動基準法所以常常會有假、承攬、徵、雇佣的事實那同樣的外送員不用朝九晚五打卡但是他們是被APP24小時監控著甚至顧客的評價"},{"start":47.415,"end":70.06,"text":"﹏﹏"},{"start":72.041,"end":91.681,"text":"委員會加入職業工會,會加入我們職災保護法?他們就沒有無固定雇主的意思,也就是用工會的方式我現在的問題是,其實在這麼多年尤其現在已經將近14萬個外送員他們各自不同的權利義務都是用契約關係,但是"},{"start":94.025,"end":108.611,"text":"在因為我們來自臺北市我們臺北市很早就訂了外送員管理資質條例那全省各縣市全國各縣市也都有訂各自的相關的條例部長我只想問你為什麼中央不肯訂專法"},{"start":110.539,"end":127.759,"text":"不是說應該不是不肯定專法為什麼一直沒有定專法專法在上一個上一屆的臺灣民眾黨賴香林委員很早就提了因為他也是臺北市的勞動局長對專法裡面其實非常重要他有幾個面向第一個要有傷害保險"},{"start":128.96,"end":150.691,"text":"顧主要用不管是顧主平台業者要出傷害保險的錢第二個要有職災的通報第三個要有教育的訓練最重要的是要揭露所有跟勞動有關的條件包括他們的抽成他們的酬金不可以片面的變動這些在地方政府相關的自治條裡面都規定了"},{"start":151.571,"end":162.677,"text":"這些東西並不困難中央定專法也不困難因為你既然不能用勞動基準法規範外送員成立一個專法可能是唯一的方法"},{"start":163.53,"end":181.904,"text":"我要說的是如果我們全部都在糾結在我們只能有一套勞動基準法我們是沒有辦法面對未來多元新興的社會形態更何況將來的工作永遠都有所謂的非典現在的人不上班在家工作不打卡"},{"start":182.825,"end":206.018,"text":"不進辦公室他一樣是僱傭以後很多類型的工作都會碰到這樣的狀況所以外送員我希望他會成為臺灣第一個認知他是勞工也給他相對保障給他一個專法更何況各地方政府都已經訂了專法這個專法只是要求更公開更透明更有保障部長你同意嗎"},{"start":207.058,"end":233.555,"text":"我當然這個非常同意委員這個用一個必須要一個法律的形式來保護外送員但是這個我覺得之前所有的人在這些所謂的公開的相關的平台上面公共政策網路參與平台上面爭取然後我們的行政院回覆是因為涉及不同部門主管者要審慎研議一審慎研議又過了四年"},{"start":234.415,"end":259.985,"text":"所以我希望新的部長有新的想法是我來努力可是重點就是說要對外送員這個有幫助啦主要是他們彼此之間的共識甚至都還沒有辦法完全離聚所以為什麼地方政府已經離了表示我們只規定最基本平台業者的責任而不是外送員個人的意見我們給他最基本的保障就比照勞動基準法一樣"},{"start":261.826,"end":284.808,"text":"剛剛講的﹖給他傷害保險吧﹖給他職災通報吧﹖給他教育訓練吧﹖給他平台揭露資訊公開透明吧﹖最重要的是他的薪酬不可以片面變更或降低而不經過相關的程序對吧對當然委員其實前三項都有我們如果從勞基法的角度我們去"},{"start":285.629,"end":287.131,"text":"我跟委員解釋齁您這個關係我非常肯定而是這樣"},{"start":302.347,"end":329.761,"text":"主要是外送員要跟平台談判要有助於他們跟平台談判那麼這個專法到底有沒有幫助這個是真的是他們之間彼此至少目前為止在這個六大都的城市裡面至少外送員不用擔心自己出狀況的時候沒有人求助現在就是變成他們沒有談判能力所以只好靠地方政府去幫忙如果中央政府願意伸出援手他們不會沒有談判能力"},{"start":330.501,"end":330.781,"text":"謝謝黃珊珊"}]}}}}