{"id":152914,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152914","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d339c8d1909fa4530e589129e178dbe15d1368e7b3a1940ed34e896d657c5e83ef9928609a2109b35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"11:25:25 - 11:37:44","影片長度":"00:12:19","會議時間":"2024-05-23T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳誠文列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家科學及技術委員會主管預算(公務預算)解凍案7案。\n【5月22日及23日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-23","duration":739,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-13"},"end_time":"2024-05-23T11:37:44+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-23T11:25:25+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":606,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（11時25分）麻煩請主委，謝謝。"],["主席：有請吳主委。"],["吳主任委員誠文：委員好。"],["葉委員元之：主委好。第一次見面，但是我從媒體有看到一些有關你的報導，個人非常的敬佩，像今天有媒體報導你說無意讓大陸科技持續落後，也不會介入中美的競逐，然後呼籲對方放棄敵意嘛，這是報紙報導，應該沒有錯嘛？"],["吳主任委員誠文：沒有錯。"],["葉委員元之：我覺得你非常好，我們沒有意識形態，完全站在產業跟科技角度，但是我非常擔心你這樣的發言，在民進黨政府我不知道能不能被接受啦！因為我印象在2019年的時候，民進黨的立委也在我們的委員會，范雲女士就曾經公開的抹紅你，說你當時在清大，好像曾經有參加過一些兩岸交流的學術活動，說你們清大已經被中共控制了，當時我們有國民黨委員質詢蘇貞昌院長怎麼可以這樣抹紅呢？結果蘇貞昌院長說：沒有抹紅，他就是紅！甚至於講陸方的分支就是不能夠在清大設置，當時我看到這個新聞為你抱屈，今天很難得來到這邊可以跟你對話，可不可以幫我們陳述一下，當時你被抹紅的時候，明明是站在產業、站在學術角度，但是動不動被扣帽子，變成中共的在臺代理人，這樣的心情、心路歷程是怎樣？"],["吳主任委員誠文：當時我是擔任清華大學副校長，是馬英九總統任內鼓勵兩岸的交流……"],["葉委員元之：那時候是2015年嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：2015……"],["葉委員元之：還是2015、2016嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：差不多。"],["葉委員元之：你們有兩件事情被罵啦，一件事情是2015你去參加一個揭牌，一個清華學術中心的揭牌……"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["葉委員元之：還有一個是2019年，當時是對岸的清華大學副校長來訪，所以清大校長去接待嘛，然後就說清大被滲透了，當時有沒有在學校看到很多匪諜，有沒有舉報？"],["吳主任委員誠文：這個跟我無關啦，我不知道有沒有，我其實……"],["葉委員元之：民進黨講有就有啊，黨說有就有啦！"],["吳主任委員誠文：我當時當副校長是奉命接待，那時候校長另有其他的事情不在。"],["葉委員元之：那時候心路歷程是怎樣，被抹紅的心路歷程是怎樣？"],["吳主任委員誠文：當然是非常委屈，我本人一切是以臺灣為優先……"],["葉委員元之：臺灣優先嘛！"],["吳主任委員誠文：我關心我們的社會，關心我們國家的發展，所以我生涯裡面所有的工作，不管是在學術界還是在工研院服務，或擔任校長等等，我從來就不會以政治意識為考量，我會以國家本土的發展為優先的考量。"],["葉委員元之：其實大家都是啦！但是有些人就很喜歡抹紅別人，扣人家帽子啦！當時罵你最兇就是范雲女士，也是我們教育文化委員會的委員，我是不知道他質詢過了沒？還沒。你有沒有什麼話要跟他講嗎？說委員你誤會我了啦，我這一生以臺灣為優先，不要動不動扣帽子，你會這樣子跟他講嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我想委員應該最後還是會明瞭我的心意啦，我是為臺灣。"],["葉委員元之：他很難瞭解別人心意，真的，一個有色眼鏡戴久的人很難瞭解別人心意啦！很會吃女權自助餐，要攻擊別人的時候就搬女權，然後要袒護自己人的時候就看不到，所以當時你就是他攻擊的目標，他很難看到啦，我建議你還是要跟他講一下，因為現在你的位置特別重要，到時候不要國科會推動一些兩岸交流相關事物，尤其是你在報紙上也講了嘛，你說無意讓大陸科技持續落後，不會介入中美競逐，等一下可能又被罵了！我認為你在第一時間要講清楚好不好？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["葉委員元之：我們都是為臺灣！"],["吳主任委員誠文：為臺灣！"],["葉委員元之：為臺灣，正常的交流不要抹紅，對吧？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。身為政務官，我遵照賴總統的指示，我們要建造一個和平、穩定、繁榮的臺灣，健康的臺灣，讓臺灣在全世界，也協助全世界能夠和平、穩定、繁榮。"],["葉委員元之：對，太好了，我絕對是支持你，因為我們都跟你一樣，常常被抹紅。像最近在國會討論國會改革法，也要被講成是幫習近平投票，這種荒謬的、抹紅的句都講得出來，我們跟你一樣都是天涯淪落人，所以全力的支持你。","接下來我想問一下產業的問題，因為最近的一個財經新聞在國際的媒體上面被廣泛的討論，因為大家延續兩岸的話題，大家擔心兩岸未來會不會有一些國安的問題─開戰嘛！美國路透社有個報導，說荷蘭的ASML一個光刻機的廠商，它說可以跟我們台積電在遠端，只要臺灣遇到一些國安問題，可以在遠端關閉台積電的一些設備，不知道你有沒有看到這個新聞？"],["吳主任委員誠文：有，有看到新聞。"],["葉委員元之：因為當時這個新聞出來之後，大家覺得那麼厲害喔！原來可以做到這樣的技術，到時候就算開戰，好像台積電也不太容易就淪落到他人之手嘛，所以大家很關注啦！因為後來媒體報導之後，很多專家就禁口了，就不講這個事情了，我想請教一下主委，你對這個事情的瞭解是怎樣，有可能在技術上做得到嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：以現在在半導體產業智慧製造的技術是可以做得到。"],["葉委員元之：是可以做得到？所以他們是有能力遠端關閉全球最先進的晶片製造設備EUV，是可以的？"],["吳主任委員誠文：技術上是可以的。"],["葉委員元之：技術上可以的，所以這個新聞沒有錯嘛，你證實有這樣的一個技術嘛！"],["吳主任委員誠文：技術是可以的。"],["葉委員元之：我們國科會針對這方面的技術有任何的，比如說鼓勵研發或增加相關的能量，有嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：這個本身是智慧製造的技術，我們各行各業、各種設備只要能夠連上網路就可以利用智慧製造的技術監控遠方設備，包含停機這個事情。"],["葉委員元之：再來，這是我個人接受到的一個陳情，因為主委剛上任，其實這個議題我關心很久了，上一任主委本來在我質詢的時候有答應我要提出一個解決方案，不過每次都是這樣，在委員會講的、官員承諾的到最後都沒有，要求給報告，給的報告也就是講一些無關痛癢的背景，從來不針對問題。所以我利用這個機會再跟主委講一下，也希望主委真的能夠解決這個問題。","這個問題是，去年開始國科會有一個博士生研究獎學金試辦方案，去年9月的時候開了一個記者會，隔1個月立刻就收件，就是收件1個月的時間，這個獎學金主要是要補助新入學的博士生，但它裡面有幾個問題發生，第一個問題是，因為它是在1月多的時候公布得到獎學金的名單，9月收件、隔1個月收件，隔年1月公布，導致很多1月之後才決定要讀博士班的學生沒有辦法去申請這個獎學金，他們就成為漏網之魚；第二個，我覺得這個宣傳完全不足，當時我問了很多學校的學生跟學校的老師，還有一些本來想要讀博士班的學生，他們通通都不知道這個訊息，所以我們就質疑，是不是只有「巷子內」的人才知道有這個東西？宣傳不足、收件時間又很短，只有跟國科會比較熟的人，或者是跟國科會裡面官員比較熟的人才有可能得到這個訊息、才能夠申請，這也是一個非常大的問題。這後來在博士班裡面造成一個話題，很多在學的博士班學生不能接受，認為這個獎學金到底在幹麼？很多人已經是一年級了，他已經一年級就不能夠去申請這個獎學金，因為這個獎學金是針對還沒入學的，所以很多一年級的學生變成先爭取到資格，然後再去考一個博士班，想要取得這個獎學金的資格。","我上次已經針對相關的問題質詢過原來的國科會主委，那時候國科會主委也覺得這有點怪怪的，要提供一個解決方案，那個影片在網路上我也都公開，我也有把這個影片傳給民眾，表示國科會願意解決，可是後來就沒有了、不了了之啊！給的報告就是那種敷衍的啊！這個東西已經隔了2個月了，我沒有得到一個答案，對於民眾也沒辦法交代啊！既然國科會要編這個預算，為什麼不能把它做好呢？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我可以請我們科國處來說明一下。"],["葉委員元之：可以、可以，因為……"],["黃副處長郁禎：跟委員報告，其實我們在辦理這個獎學金的時候有找各個主要大學的學院院長或是國際長來做說明，我們也有發過新聞稿……"],["葉委員元之：現在就是不夠，我剛剛講的是實際發生的問題，你現在講的是你做了什麼，比如說你考試考5分，我現在跟你講你沒有到100分，結果你說有啊！我數學對了1題，那你還差95分嘛！所以你不要告訴我這5分的事情，我現在是告訴你，你沒有做到100分，甚至80分都沒有，你要怎麼解決？"],["黃副處長郁禎：我們今年……"],["葉委員元之：要怎麼解決？因為已經講很久了，你要告訴我解決方案是什麼？"],["黃副處長郁禎：今年公告的時候我們會到各個學校去做大幅的宣傳……"],["葉委員元之：針對已經發生的，因為現在很多博士班一年級、二年級的在學生，他們也沒辦法申請，為什麼你們只圖利一些知道這訊息的人呢？你們為什麼不能夠擴大讓大多數人都可以得到這個獎學金呢？"],["黃副處長郁禎：我們回去會再……"],["葉委員元之：不要回去了啦！又要回去，回去就沒有了啦！"],["黃副處長郁禎：今年因為我們已經……"],["葉委員元之：主委、主委，我前面都對你很客氣，我對你都非常客氣……"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們答應修改。"],["葉委員元之：可是我不喜歡人家糊弄我……"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們答應修改。"],["葉委員元之：但是我已經被國科會糊弄了2個月，以後大家也不是沒有見面的機會，如果國科會以後來這邊備詢的態度都是認為我在這邊，反正我有時間限制嘛！先騙一下，或者是每次回答問題都從女媧補天開始講，把我時間拖完，剩下就說：回去、回去，最後又沒有補，我覺得這種態度我沒辦法接受。主委，我現在就嚴厲的要求，因為已經2個月了，什麼時候可以給我一個真正解決的方案？"],["吳主任委員誠文：下個禮拜。"],["葉委員元之：下個禮拜，主委你講的喔！召委，主委講的！召委，你幫我跟主委講一下，因為我們國民黨講的，國科會比較不理我們，民進黨幫我講一下。我在這邊質詢也是委員會的委員，你跟國科會講一下，上次已經糊弄一次了，希望他們尊重我們教文委員會，可以嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：不會糊弄啦！"],["葉委員元之：解決方案喔！不是給我一個從女媧補天開始講的東西喔！"],["吳主任委員誠文：不用補天……"],["葉委員元之：不是沒考100分，然後說自己考了5分很棒的這種東西喔！"],["吳主任委員誠文：好，我們只要補救就好了，補救那……"],["葉委員元之：補救、解決嘛！上次問題已經講很清楚了，好不好？大家維持一個互相尊重、良善的互動方式，好嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：沒問題。"],["葉委員元之：好。謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝葉元之委員，也請吳主委務必拿出解決的具體方法，速速、速度快。","再來請羅廷瑋委員。我再宣告一下，陳培瑜委員質詢完之後，我們來處理臨時提案跟解凍案。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":216,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-13","speakers":["林宜瑾","柯志恩","洪孟楷","葛如鈞","郭昱晴","萬美玲","林倩綺","陳秀寳","張雅琳","吳沛憶","吳春城","葉元之","羅廷瑋","陳培瑜","賴士葆","范雲","蔡易餘","楊瓊瓔","何欣純","邱志偉"],"page_start":155,"meetingDate":["2024-05-23"],"gazette_id":"1135001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135001_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳誠文列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查113年\n度中央政府總預算有關國家科學及技術委員會主管預算（公務預算）解凍案7案","agenda_id":"1135001_00003"}},"transcript":{"id":"152914","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152914","tool":"pyannote","id":"152914-pyannote"},"job_id":"K5w5q6m2AWN4wmzy","queued_at":"2024-05-30 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481.496, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 481.496, \"end\": 481.856, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 481.856, \"end\": 481.996, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 481.996, \"end\": 482.357, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"讀\"}, {\"word\": \"博\", \"start\": 482.357, \"end\": 482.557, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"士\", \"start\": 482.557, \"end\": 482.777, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"班\", \"start\": 482.777, \"end\": 482.957, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 482.957, \"end\": 483.117, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 483.117, \"end\": 483.337, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 483.337, \"end\": 483.597, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 483.597, \"end\": 483.737, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 483.737, \"end\": 483.817, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 483.817, \"end\": 483.937, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 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\"道\", \"start\": 503.613, \"end\": 504.354, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"訊\"}, {\"word\": \"息\", \"start\": 504.354, \"end\": 505.155, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 505.155, \"end\": 505.395, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 505.395, \"end\": 505.955, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 505.955, \"end\": 506.096, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 506.096, \"end\": 506.416, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"疑\", \"start\": 506.416, \"end\": 506.796, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 506.796, \"end\": 506.916, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 506.916, \"end\": 506.976, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 506.976, \"end\": 507.056, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 507.056, \"end\": 507.136, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 507.136, \"end\": 507.297, \"score\": 0.993}, 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{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"東\"}, {\"word\": \"西\", \"start\": 580.269, \"end\": 580.349, \"score\": 0.764}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 580.349, \"end\": 580.609, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"隔\", \"start\": 580.609, \"end\": 580.99, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 580.99, \"end\": 581.33, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 581.33, \"end\": 581.57, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 581.57, \"end\": 581.69, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 581.69, \"end\": 581.81, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 581.81, \"end\": 582.03, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"又\", \"start\": 582.03, \"end\": 582.13, \"score\": 0.779}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 582.13, \"end\": 582.23, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 582.23, \"end\": 582.35, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 582.35, \"end\": 582.51, 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0.975}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 731.761, \"end\": 731.861, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 731.861, \"end\": 731.881, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 731.881, \"end\": 732.362, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 732.362, \"end\": 732.482, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 732.482, \"end\": 733.183, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"維\"}, {\"word\": \"持\", \"start\": 733.183, \"end\": 733.323, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 733.323, \"end\": 733.544, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"互\", \"start\": 733.544, \"end\": 733.664, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 733.664, \"end\": 733.884, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"尊\", \"start\": 733.884, \"end\": 734.064, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 734.064, \"end\": 734.225, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 734.225, \"end\": 734.385, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"良\", \"start\": 734.385, \"end\": 735.006, \"score\": 0.763}, {\"word\": \"善\", \"start\": 735.006, \"end\": 735.286, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 735.286, \"end\": 735.466, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"互\", \"start\": 735.466, \"end\": 735.847, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 735.847, \"end\": 736.067, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"式\", \"start\": 736.067, \"end\": 736.288, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 736.288, \"end\": 736.348, \"score\": 0.752}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 736.348, \"end\": 736.368, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 736.368, \"end\": 736.388, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:11,152 --> 00:00:13,494\n麻煩請主委有請吳主委主委好第一次見面但是我從媒體有看到一些關於你的報導個人非常的敬佩像今天有媒體報導說你說無意讓大陸科技持續落後然後也不會介入中美的競逐\n\n2\n00:00:32,731 --> 00:00:47,560\n然後呼籲對方放棄敵意嘛這是報紙報導應該是沒有錯嘛沒有錯我覺得你非常好就是我們沒有意識形態完全站在產業跟科技但是我非常擔心你這樣發言在民進黨政府我不知道說能不能被接受\n\n3\n00:00:48,180 --> 00:01:02,610\n因為我印象當中在20192019年的時候民進黨的立委也在我們的委員會范雲女士她就曾經公開抹紅你啊就說你在清大當時好像曾經有參加過一些兩岸交流的學術活動\n\n4\n00:01:03,450 --> 00:01:26,598\n就說你們清大已經已經被這個中共控制了然後當時我們有國民黨委員質詢蘇貞昌院長結果說怎麼可以這樣抹紅呢那結果蘇貞昌院長說沒有抹紅他就是紅然後甚至於講說陸方的分支就是不能夠在清大設置當時我看那個新聞為你抱屈那今天很難得待到這邊可以跟你對話啦可不可以\n\n5\n00:01:28,098 --> 00:01:53,295\n幫我們陳述一下像當時你在被抹紅的時候明明是站在產業站在學術但是動不動被扣帽子變成中共的在台代理人這樣的心情心路歷程是怎樣當時我是擔任清華大學副校長當時是馬英九總統任內鼓勵兩岸的交流那時候是2015年嘛\n\n6\n00:01:55,733 --> 00:02:20,692\n2015or2015or2016.你們有兩件事情被罵啦一件事情是2015啦你去參加一個街牌啦就是一個清華的一個學術中心的街牌還有一個是2019年當時是清華大他們對岸的清華大學副校長來訪嘛所以清大校長去接待嘛然後就說清大被滲透了啦當時有沒有在學校看到很多匪諜有沒有舉報\n\n7\n00:02:23,524 --> 00:02:28,389\n我當時當副校長是奉命接待啦那時候校長令有其他的事情不在是是那時候心路歷程是怎樣就是被抹紅的心路歷程是怎樣\n\n8\n00:02:40,380 --> 00:03:06,668\n當然是非常委屈嘛我本人是一切是以臺灣為優先我關心我們的社會關心我們的國家的發展所以我的生涯裡面所有的工作不管是在學術界還是在公務員服務擔任校長等等我從來就是不會以政治意識為考量\n\n9\n00:03:07,697 --> 00:03:29,795\n那我會以國家本土的發展為優先的考量其實大家都是啦但是有些人就很喜歡抹紅別人扣人家帽子啦那當時罵你最兇的是范雲女士啦也是我們教育文化委員會我是不知道她質詢過了沒啦還沒啊你有沒有什麼話要跟她講嗎說欸委員你誤會我了啦我是一生以台灣為優先不要動不動扣帽子你會這樣子跟她講嗎\n\n10\n00:03:32,877 --> 00:03:51,017\n我想委員應該最後還是會明瞭我的心意啦我是為台灣他很難瞭解別人心意啊真的一個有色眼鏡戴酒的人啊很難瞭解別人心意啦很會吃自助餐啦女權自助餐就是要攻擊別人的時候就搬女權然後要袒護自己人的時候就看不到\n\n11\n00:03:51,738 --> 00:04:17,833\n所以當時你就是他攻擊的目標啦他很難看到啦我建議你還是要跟他講一下因為現在你的位置特別重要到時候不要國科會推動一些兩岸交流相關事務因為尤其是你在報紙上也講了嘛你說這個不會無意讓大陸科技持續落後啊然後不會介入中美進逐哦等一下可能又被罵了我認為你在第一時間要講清楚好不好我們都是為了台灣\n\n12\n00:04:18,693 --> 00:04:29,909\n為台灣為台灣正常的交流不要抹紅對吧我尊照身為政府官我尊照賴總統的指示我們要建造一個\n\n13\n00:04:31,127 --> 00:04:33,268\n對,太好了,我們絕對是支持你因為我們都跟你一樣常常被抹紅像最近在國會討論國會改革法也要被講成是幫習近平投票這種\n\n14\n00:04:52,133 --> 00:04:54,194\n獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得\n\n15\n00:05:08,198 --> 00:05:32,805\n當然延續兩岸的話題大家擔心說兩岸未來會不會有一些國安的問題開戰美國路透社有個報導說荷蘭的ASSml就是一個光科機的一個廠商他說他可以跟我們台積電在遠端只要台灣遇到一些國安問題可以在遠端關閉台積電的一些設備這不知道你有沒有看到這個新聞\n\n16\n00:05:34,045 --> 00:05:58,561\n有有看到新聞那那因為當時這個新聞出來之後大家覺得說欸那麼厲害喔原來可以做到這樣的技術那到時候就算開戰好像台積電也不太容易就淪落到他人之手嘛那所以大家很關注啦那因為很多專家後來媒體報導之後出來就進口了就不講了這個事情我想請教一下主委你對這個事情的了解是怎樣有可能在技術上做得到嗎\n\n17\n00:05:59,881 --> 00:06:21,610\n以現在在半導體產業的智慧製造的技術是可以做得到是可以做得到所以他們是有能力遠端關閉全球最先進的晶片製造設備EUV是不是是可以的技術上是可以的所以這個新聞就是沒有錯你有證實有這樣的一個技術\n\n18\n00:06:26,127 --> 00:06:52,463\n那我們的博客會針對這方面的技術有任何的比如說鼓勵研發嗎或增加相關的能量有嗎這個本身是智慧製造的技術我們各行各業各種設備只要能夠連上網路就可以利用這個智慧製造的這種技術可以來監控遠方的設備包含停機這個事情\n\n19\n00:06:53,403 --> 00:07:16,462\n好再來這是我個人接受到一個陳情因為主委剛上任其實這個議題我關心很久了上任主委本來在我執行的時候有答應我說要提出一個解決方案不過每次都是這樣在委員會講的官員的承諾到最後都沒有然後要求給報告給個報告就是講一些無關痛癢的背景從來不針對問題\n\n20\n00:07:18,303 --> 00:07:38,869\n所以我利用這個機會也跟主委再講一下希望說主委真的能夠解決這個問題這個問題是因為國科會有一個博士生的研究獎學金的試辦方案去年開始的那去年9月的時候開了一個記者會然後隨即隔一個月立刻就收件那就收件一個月的時間\n\n21\n00:07:40,829 --> 00:08:04,877\n這個獎學金主要是要補助新入學的博士生大概是這樣但它裡面有幾個問題會發生第一個問題就是因為它是在一月多的時候就公布得到獎學金的名單九月收件、一個月收件、隔年一月公布導致於說很多是一月之後才決定要讀博士班的學生他是沒有辦法去申請這個獎學金的\n\n22\n00:08:07,539 --> 00:08:32,641\n他們就成為漏網之魚啦然後第二個是我覺得這個宣傳是完全不足因為當時我問了很多學校的學生跟學校的老師還有一些本來想要讀博士班的學生他們通通都不知道這個訊息所以我們就質疑說是不是只有巷子內的人才知道有這個東西宣傳不足收件時間又很短\n\n23\n00:08:33,496 --> 00:08:52,865\n那只有跟國科會比較熟的人或者是跟國科會裡面官員比較熟的人才有可能得到這個訊息才能夠來申請這也是一個非常大的問題那後來就在博士班裡面造成一個話題很多在學的博士班學生不能接受就認為說這個獎金到底在幹嘛\n\n24\n00:08:55,106 --> 00:09:15,396\n那很多人是已經一年級了嘛一年級他就不能夠去申請這個補習班嘛講學金嘛因為這個講學金是針對還沒入學的所以很多一年級的學生他變得說那他再去重新去先爭取到資格然後再去考一個博士班然後想要取得這個講學金的資格\n\n25\n00:09:16,336 --> 00:09:44,752\n我上次已經針對相關的問題有質詢過原來的國會主委那時候國會主委也覺得說這有點怪怪的說要提供一個解決方案那那個影片在網路上我也都有公開我有把這影片傳給我們的民眾說我們要國會願意解決可是後來就沒有了就不了了之啊然後給的報告就是那種敷衍的啊那這個東西已經隔了兩個月了啊我們又得到一個答案我們對於我們的民眾也沒辦法交代啊\n\n26\n00:09:45,552 --> 00:09:52,457\n那既然國會要編任預算為什麼不能把它做到好呢?我可以請我們柯國促來?可以可以可以因為\n\n27\n00:09:54,557 --> 00:10:14,796\n報告啊那其實我們在辦理這個獎學金的時候我們其實有找各個大學的主要大學叫學員長或是國際長有來做個說明那我們也有發過新聞稿你現在就是不夠我剛剛講的是11發這個問題你現在講的是說你做什麼你做比如說你考試啊你考五分啊我現在跟你講說你沒有到100分結果你說有啊我對的數學一題\n\n28\n00:10:17,719 --> 00:10:44,637\n那你還差95分嘛所以你不要告訴我這5分的事情我現在是告訴你說你沒有做到100分甚至80分都沒有到你要怎麼解決那我們今年要不然你要怎麼解決因為已經講久了解決方案解決方案是什麼?針對已經發生的因為現在很多博士班一年級二年級的在學生他們也沒有辦法申請嘛那為什麼你只圖利一些就知道這訊息的人呢你為什麼不能夠擴大讓大多數人都可以得到這個獎學金呢\n\n29\n00:10:45,418 --> 00:11:10,975\n那我們回去會再﹖不要回去了啦又要回去回去就沒有啦欸主委我前面都對你很客氣我對你都非常客氣那可是我不喜歡人家呼嚨我但是我已經被國科會呼嚨了兩個月了已經呼嚨了兩個月那以後大家也不是沒有見面的機會如果說國會會以後來這邊備許的態度都是我在這邊反正我有時間限制嘛\n\n30\n00:11:12,416 --> 00:11:39,378\n先騙一下或者是每次回答問題都從女娲補天開始講然後講到把我時間拖完然後剩下就說回去回去然後最後又沒有補那我覺得這種態度我沒辦法接受所以主委我現在就是嚴厲的要求就是說我因為已經兩個月了什麼時候可以給我一個真正解決的方案下個禮拜下個禮拜主委你講的喔趙偉他那個主委講的趙偉他不理我\n\n31\n00:11:41,240 --> 00:12:05,853\n那你幫我跟主委講一下因為我們國民黨的國會比較不理我們民進黨幫我講一下因為我在這邊質詢也是委員會的委員嘛好不好你跟國會講一下說上次已經呼嚨一次了希望他們尊重我們教文委員會可以嗎好不會再呼嚨啦解決方案喔不是說給我一個說從米花普天開始講這種東西喔考100分然後說我考了5分很棒的這種東西喔\n\n32\n00:12:07,054 --> 00:12:16,388\n我們只要補救就好啦補救那補救解決嘛上次問題已經講很清楚了好不好大家維持一個互相尊重的良善的互動方式好嗎沒問題好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n11152\t13494\t麻煩請主委有請吳主委主委好第一次見面但是我從媒體有看到一些關於你的報導個人非常的敬佩像今天有媒體報導說你說無意讓大陸科技持續落後然後也不會介入中美的競逐\n32731\t47560\t然後呼籲對方放棄敵意嘛這是報紙報導應該是沒有錯嘛沒有錯我覺得你非常好就是我們沒有意識形態完全站在產業跟科技但是我非常擔心你這樣發言在民進黨政府我不知道說能不能被接受\n48180\t62610\t因為我印象當中在2019 2019年的時候民進黨的立委也在我們的委員會范雲女士她就曾經公開抹紅你啊就說你在清大當時好像曾經有參加過一些兩岸交流的學術活動\n63450\t86598\t就說你們清大已經已經被這個中共控制了然後當時我們有國民黨委員質詢蘇貞昌院長結果說怎麼可以這樣抹紅呢那結果蘇貞昌院長說沒有抹紅他就是紅然後甚至於講說陸方的分支就是不能夠在清大設置當時我看那個新聞為你抱屈那今天很難得待到這邊可以跟你對話啦可不可以\n88098\t113295\t幫我們陳述一下像當時你在被抹紅的時候明明是站在產業站在學術但是動不動被扣帽子變成中共的在台代理人這樣的心情心路歷程是怎樣當時我是擔任清華大學副校長當時是馬英九總統任內鼓勵兩岸的交流那時候是2015年嘛\n115733\t140692\t2015 or 2015 or2016.你們有兩件事情被罵啦一件事情是2015啦你去參加一個街牌啦就是一個清華的一個學術中心的街牌還有一個是2019年當時是清華大他們對岸的清華大學副校長來訪嘛所以清大校長去接待嘛然後就說清大被滲透了啦當時有沒有在學校看到很多匪諜有沒有舉報\n143524\t148389\t我當時當副校長是奉命接待啦那時候校長令有其他的事情不在是是那時候心路歷程是怎樣就是被抹紅的心路歷程是怎樣\n160380\t186668\t當然是非常委屈嘛我本人是一切是以臺灣為優先我關心我們的社會關心我們的國家的發展所以我的生涯裡面所有的工作不管是在學術界還是在公務員服務擔任校長等等我從來就是不會以政治意識為考量\n187697\t209795\t那我會以國家本土的發展為優先的考量其實大家都是啦但是有些人就很喜歡抹紅別人扣人家帽子啦那當時罵你最兇的是范雲女士啦也是我們教育文化委員會我是不知道她質詢過了沒啦還沒啊你有沒有什麼話要跟她講嗎說欸委員你誤會我了啦我是一生以台灣為優先不要動不動扣帽子你會這樣子跟她講嗎\n212877\t231017\t我想委員應該最後還是會明瞭我的心意啦我是為台灣他很難瞭解別人心意啊真的一個有色眼鏡戴酒的人啊很難瞭解別人心意啦很會吃自助餐啦女權自助餐就是要攻擊別人的時候就搬女權然後要袒護自己人的時候就看不到\n231738\t257833\t所以當時你就是他攻擊的目標啦他很難看到啦我建議你還是要跟他講一下因為現在你的位置特別重要到時候不要國科會推動一些兩岸交流相關事務因為尤其是你在報紙上也講了嘛你說這個不會無意讓大陸科技持續落後啊然後不會介入中美進逐哦等一下可能又被罵了我認為你在第一時間要講清楚好不好我們都是為了台灣\n258693\t269909\t為台灣為台灣正常的交流不要抹紅對吧我尊照身為政府官我尊照賴總統的指示我們要建造一個\n271127\t273268\t對,太好了,我們絕對是支持你因為我們都跟你一樣常常被抹紅像最近在國會討論國會改革法也要被講成是幫習近平投票這種\n292133\t294194\t獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得\n308198\t332805\t當然延續兩岸的話題大家擔心說兩岸未來會不會有一些國安的問題開戰美國路透社有個報導說荷蘭的ASSml就是一個光科機的一個廠商他說他可以跟我們台積電在遠端只要台灣遇到一些國安問題可以在遠端關閉台積電的一些設備這不知道你有沒有看到這個新聞\n334045\t358561\t有有看到新聞那那因為當時這個新聞出來之後大家覺得說欸那麼厲害喔原來可以做到這樣的技術那到時候就算開戰好像台積電也不太容易就淪落到他人之手嘛那所以大家很關注啦那因為很多專家後來媒體報導之後出來就進口了就不講了這個事情我想請教一下主委你對這個事情的了解是怎樣有可能在技術上做得到嗎\n359881\t381610\t以現在在半導體產業的智慧製造的技術是可以做得到是可以做得到所以他們是有能力遠端關閉全球最先進的晶片製造設備EUV是不是 是可以的技術上是可以的所以這個新聞就是沒有錯你有證實有這樣的一個技術\n386127\t412463\t那我們的博客會針對這方面的技術有任何的比如說鼓勵研發嗎或增加相關的能量有嗎這個本身是智慧製造的技術我們各行各業各種設備只要能夠連上網路就可以利用這個智慧製造的這種技術可以來監控遠方的設備包含停機這個事情\n413403\t436462\t好再來這是我個人接受到一個陳情因為主委剛上任其實這個議題我關心很久了上任主委本來在我執行的時候有答應我說要提出一個解決方案不過每次都是這樣在委員會講的官員的承諾到最後都沒有然後要求給報告給個報告就是講一些無關痛癢的背景從來不針對問題\n438303\t458869\t所以我利用這個機會也跟主委再講一下希望說主委真的能夠解決這個問題這個問題是因為國科會有一個博士生的研究獎學金的試辦方案去年開始的那去年9月的時候開了一個記者會然後隨即隔一個月立刻就收件那就收件一個月的時間\n460829\t484877\t這個獎學金主要是要補助新入學的博士生大概是這樣但它裡面有幾個問題會發生第一個問題就是因為它是在一月多的時候就公布得到獎學金的名單九月收件、一個月收件、隔年一月公布導致於說很多是一月之後才決定要讀博士班的學生他是沒有辦法去申請這個獎學金的\n487539\t512641\t他們就成為漏網之魚啦然後第二個是我覺得這個宣傳是完全不足因為當時我問了很多學校的學生跟學校的老師還有一些本來想要讀博士班的學生他們通通都不知道這個訊息所以我們就質疑說是不是只有巷子內的人才知道有這個東西宣傳不足收件時間又很短\n513496\t532865\t那只有跟國科會比較熟的人或者是跟國科會裡面官員比較熟的人才有可能得到這個訊息才能夠來申請這也是一個非常大的問題那後來就在博士班裡面造成一個話題很多在學的博士班學生不能接受就認為說這個獎金到底在幹嘛\n535106\t555396\t那很多人是已經一年級了嘛一年級他就不能夠去申請這個補習班嘛講學金嘛因為這個講學金是針對還沒入學的所以很多一年級的學生他變得說那他再去重新去先爭取到資格然後再去考一個博士班然後想要取得這個講學金的資格\n556336\t584752\t我上次已經針對相關的問題有質詢過原來的國會主委那時候國會主委也覺得說這有點怪怪的說要提供一個解決方案那那個影片在網路上我也都有公開我有把這影片傳給我們的民眾說我們要國會願意解決可是後來就沒有了就不了了之啊然後給的報告就是那種敷衍的啊那這個東西已經隔了兩個月了啊我們又得到一個答案我們對於我們的民眾也沒辦法交代啊\n585552\t592457\t那既然國會要編任預算為什麼不能把它做到好呢?我可以請我們柯國促來?可以可以可以因為\n594557\t614796\t報告啊那其實我們在辦理這個獎學金的時候我們其實有找各個大學的主要大學叫學員長或是國際長有來做個說明那我們也有發過新聞稿你現在就是不夠我剛剛講的是11發這個問題你現在講的是說你做什麼你做比如說你考試啊你考五分啊我現在跟你講說你沒有到100分結果你說有啊我對的數學一題\n617719\t644637\t那你還差95分嘛所以你不要告訴我這5分的事情我現在是告訴你說你沒有做到100分甚至80分都沒有到你要怎麼解決那我們今年要不然你要怎麼解決因為已經講久了解決方案解決方案是什麼?針對已經發生的因為現在很多博士班一年級二年級的在學生他們也沒有辦法申請嘛那為什麼你只圖利一些就知道這訊息的人呢你為什麼不能夠擴大讓大多數人都可以得到這個獎學金呢\n645418\t670975\t那我們回去會再﹖ 不要回去了啦又要回去回去就沒有啦 欸主委我前面都對你很客氣我對你都非常客氣那可是我不喜歡人家呼嚨我但是我已經被國科會呼嚨了兩個月了已經呼嚨了兩個月那以後大家也不是沒有見面的機會如果說國會會以後來這邊備許的態度都是我在這邊反正我有時間限制嘛\n672416\t699378\t先騙一下或者是每次回答問題都從女娲補天開始講然後講到把我時間拖完然後剩下就說回去回去然後最後又沒有補那我覺得這種態度我沒辦法接受所以主委我現在就是嚴厲的要求就是說我因為已經兩個月了什麼時候可以給我一個真正解決的方案下個禮拜下個禮拜主委你講的喔 趙偉他那個主委講的趙偉他不理我\n701240\t725853\t那你幫我跟主委講一下因為我們國民黨的國會比較不理我們民進黨幫我講一下因為我在這邊質詢也是委員會的委員嘛好不好你跟國會講一下說上次已經呼嚨一次了希望他們尊重我們教文委員會可以嗎好不會再呼嚨啦解決方案喔不是說給我一個說從米花普天開始講這種東西喔考100分然後說我考了5分很棒的這種東西喔\n727054\t736388\t我們只要補救就好啦補救那補救解決嘛上次問題已經講很清楚了好不好大家維持一個互相尊重的良善的互動方式好嗎沒問題好謝謝\n","txt":"麻煩請主委有請吳主委主委好第一次見面但是我從媒體有看到一些關於你的報導個人非常的敬佩像今天有媒體報導說你說無意讓大陸科技持續落後然後也不會介入中美的競逐\n然後呼籲對方放棄敵意嘛這是報紙報導應該是沒有錯嘛沒有錯我覺得你非常好就是我們沒有意識形態完全站在產業跟科技但是我非常擔心你這樣發言在民進黨政府我不知道說能不能被接受\n因為我印象當中在2019 2019年的時候民進黨的立委也在我們的委員會范雲女士她就曾經公開抹紅你啊就說你在清大當時好像曾經有參加過一些兩岸交流的學術活動\n就說你們清大已經已經被這個中共控制了然後當時我們有國民黨委員質詢蘇貞昌院長結果說怎麼可以這樣抹紅呢那結果蘇貞昌院長說沒有抹紅他就是紅然後甚至於講說陸方的分支就是不能夠在清大設置當時我看那個新聞為你抱屈那今天很難得待到這邊可以跟你對話啦可不可以\n幫我們陳述一下像當時你在被抹紅的時候明明是站在產業站在學術但是動不動被扣帽子變成中共的在台代理人這樣的心情心路歷程是怎樣當時我是擔任清華大學副校長當時是馬英九總統任內鼓勵兩岸的交流那時候是2015年嘛\n2015 or 2015 or2016.你們有兩件事情被罵啦一件事情是2015啦你去參加一個街牌啦就是一個清華的一個學術中心的街牌還有一個是2019年當時是清華大他們對岸的清華大學副校長來訪嘛所以清大校長去接待嘛然後就說清大被滲透了啦當時有沒有在學校看到很多匪諜有沒有舉報\n我當時當副校長是奉命接待啦那時候校長令有其他的事情不在是是那時候心路歷程是怎樣就是被抹紅的心路歷程是怎樣\n當然是非常委屈嘛我本人是一切是以臺灣為優先我關心我們的社會關心我們的國家的發展所以我的生涯裡面所有的工作不管是在學術界還是在公務員服務擔任校長等等我從來就是不會以政治意識為考量\n那我會以國家本土的發展為優先的考量其實大家都是啦但是有些人就很喜歡抹紅別人扣人家帽子啦那當時罵你最兇的是范雲女士啦也是我們教育文化委員會我是不知道她質詢過了沒啦還沒啊你有沒有什麼話要跟她講嗎說欸委員你誤會我了啦我是一生以台灣為優先不要動不動扣帽子你會這樣子跟她講嗎\n我想委員應該最後還是會明瞭我的心意啦我是為台灣他很難瞭解別人心意啊真的一個有色眼鏡戴酒的人啊很難瞭解別人心意啦很會吃自助餐啦女權自助餐就是要攻擊別人的時候就搬女權然後要袒護自己人的時候就看不到\n所以當時你就是他攻擊的目標啦他很難看到啦我建議你還是要跟他講一下因為現在你的位置特別重要到時候不要國科會推動一些兩岸交流相關事務因為尤其是你在報紙上也講了嘛你說這個不會無意讓大陸科技持續落後啊然後不會介入中美進逐哦等一下可能又被罵了我認為你在第一時間要講清楚好不好我們都是為了台灣\n為台灣為台灣正常的交流不要抹紅對吧我尊照身為政府官我尊照賴總統的指示我們要建造一個\n對,太好了,我們絕對是支持你因為我們都跟你一樣常常被抹紅像最近在國會討論國會改革法也要被講成是幫習近平投票這種\n獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得\n當然延續兩岸的話題大家擔心說兩岸未來會不會有一些國安的問題開戰美國路透社有個報導說荷蘭的ASSml就是一個光科機的一個廠商他說他可以跟我們台積電在遠端只要台灣遇到一些國安問題可以在遠端關閉台積電的一些設備這不知道你有沒有看到這個新聞\n有有看到新聞那那因為當時這個新聞出來之後大家覺得說欸那麼厲害喔原來可以做到這樣的技術那到時候就算開戰好像台積電也不太容易就淪落到他人之手嘛那所以大家很關注啦那因為很多專家後來媒體報導之後出來就進口了就不講了這個事情我想請教一下主委你對這個事情的了解是怎樣有可能在技術上做得到嗎\n以現在在半導體產業的智慧製造的技術是可以做得到是可以做得到所以他們是有能力遠端關閉全球最先進的晶片製造設備EUV是不是 是可以的技術上是可以的所以這個新聞就是沒有錯你有證實有這樣的一個技術\n那我們的博客會針對這方面的技術有任何的比如說鼓勵研發嗎或增加相關的能量有嗎這個本身是智慧製造的技術我們各行各業各種設備只要能夠連上網路就可以利用這個智慧製造的這種技術可以來監控遠方的設備包含停機這個事情\n好再來這是我個人接受到一個陳情因為主委剛上任其實這個議題我關心很久了上任主委本來在我執行的時候有答應我說要提出一個解決方案不過每次都是這樣在委員會講的官員的承諾到最後都沒有然後要求給報告給個報告就是講一些無關痛癢的背景從來不針對問題\n所以我利用這個機會也跟主委再講一下希望說主委真的能夠解決這個問題這個問題是因為國科會有一個博士生的研究獎學金的試辦方案去年開始的那去年9月的時候開了一個記者會然後隨即隔一個月立刻就收件那就收件一個月的時間\n這個獎學金主要是要補助新入學的博士生大概是這樣但它裡面有幾個問題會發生第一個問題就是因為它是在一月多的時候就公布得到獎學金的名單九月收件、一個月收件、隔年一月公布導致於說很多是一月之後才決定要讀博士班的學生他是沒有辦法去申請這個獎學金的\n他們就成為漏網之魚啦然後第二個是我覺得這個宣傳是完全不足因為當時我問了很多學校的學生跟學校的老師還有一些本來想要讀博士班的學生他們通通都不知道這個訊息所以我們就質疑說是不是只有巷子內的人才知道有這個東西宣傳不足收件時間又很短\n那只有跟國科會比較熟的人或者是跟國科會裡面官員比較熟的人才有可能得到這個訊息才能夠來申請這也是一個非常大的問題那後來就在博士班裡面造成一個話題很多在學的博士班學生不能接受就認為說這個獎金到底在幹嘛\n那很多人是已經一年級了嘛一年級他就不能夠去申請這個補習班嘛講學金嘛因為這個講學金是針對還沒入學的所以很多一年級的學生他變得說那他再去重新去先爭取到資格然後再去考一個博士班然後想要取得這個講學金的資格\n我上次已經針對相關的問題有質詢過原來的國會主委那時候國會主委也覺得說這有點怪怪的說要提供一個解決方案那那個影片在網路上我也都有公開我有把這影片傳給我們的民眾說我們要國會願意解決可是後來就沒有了就不了了之啊然後給的報告就是那種敷衍的啊那這個東西已經隔了兩個月了啊我們又得到一個答案我們對於我們的民眾也沒辦法交代啊\n那既然國會要編任預算為什麼不能把它做到好呢?我可以請我們柯國促來?可以可以可以因為\n報告啊那其實我們在辦理這個獎學金的時候我們其實有找各個大學的主要大學叫學員長或是國際長有來做個說明那我們也有發過新聞稿你現在就是不夠我剛剛講的是11發這個問題你現在講的是說你做什麼你做比如說你考試啊你考五分啊我現在跟你講說你沒有到100分結果你說有啊我對的數學一題\n那你還差95分嘛所以你不要告訴我這5分的事情我現在是告訴你說你沒有做到100分甚至80分都沒有到你要怎麼解決那我們今年要不然你要怎麼解決因為已經講久了解決方案解決方案是什麼?針對已經發生的因為現在很多博士班一年級二年級的在學生他們也沒有辦法申請嘛那為什麼你只圖利一些就知道這訊息的人呢你為什麼不能夠擴大讓大多數人都可以得到這個獎學金呢\n那我們回去會再﹖ 不要回去了啦又要回去回去就沒有啦 欸主委我前面都對你很客氣我對你都非常客氣那可是我不喜歡人家呼嚨我但是我已經被國科會呼嚨了兩個月了已經呼嚨了兩個月那以後大家也不是沒有見面的機會如果說國會會以後來這邊備許的態度都是我在這邊反正我有時間限制嘛\n先騙一下或者是每次回答問題都從女娲補天開始講然後講到把我時間拖完然後剩下就說回去回去然後最後又沒有補那我覺得這種態度我沒辦法接受所以主委我現在就是嚴厲的要求就是說我因為已經兩個月了什麼時候可以給我一個真正解決的方案下個禮拜下個禮拜主委你講的喔 趙偉他那個主委講的趙偉他不理我\n那你幫我跟主委講一下因為我們國民黨的國會比較不理我們民進黨幫我講一下因為我在這邊質詢也是委員會的委員嘛好不好你跟國會講一下說上次已經呼嚨一次了希望他們尊重我們教文委員會可以嗎好不會再呼嚨啦解決方案喔不是說給我一個說從米花普天開始講這種東西喔考100分然後說我考了5分很棒的這種東西喔\n我們只要補救就好啦補救那補救解決嘛上次問題已經講很清楚了好不好大家維持一個互相尊重的良善的互動方式好嗎沒問題好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:11.152 --> 00:13.494\n麻煩請主委有請吳主委主委好第一次見面但是我從媒體有看到一些關於你的報導個人非常的敬佩像今天有媒體報導說你說無意讓大陸科技持續落後然後也不會介入中美的競逐\n\n00:32.731 --> 00:47.560\n然後呼籲對方放棄敵意嘛這是報紙報導應該是沒有錯嘛沒有錯我覺得你非常好就是我們沒有意識形態完全站在產業跟科技但是我非常擔心你這樣發言在民進黨政府我不知道說能不能被接受\n\n00:48.180 --> 01:02.610\n因為我印象當中在20192019年的時候民進黨的立委也在我們的委員會范雲女士她就曾經公開抹紅你啊就說你在清大當時好像曾經有參加過一些兩岸交流的學術活動\n\n01:03.450 --> 01:26.598\n就說你們清大已經已經被這個中共控制了然後當時我們有國民黨委員質詢蘇貞昌院長結果說怎麼可以這樣抹紅呢那結果蘇貞昌院長說沒有抹紅他就是紅然後甚至於講說陸方的分支就是不能夠在清大設置當時我看那個新聞為你抱屈那今天很難得待到這邊可以跟你對話啦可不可以\n\n01:28.098 --> 01:53.295\n幫我們陳述一下像當時你在被抹紅的時候明明是站在產業站在學術但是動不動被扣帽子變成中共的在台代理人這樣的心情心路歷程是怎樣當時我是擔任清華大學副校長當時是馬英九總統任內鼓勵兩岸的交流那時候是2015年嘛\n\n01:55.733 --> 02:20.692\n2015or2015or2016.你們有兩件事情被罵啦一件事情是2015啦你去參加一個街牌啦就是一個清華的一個學術中心的街牌還有一個是2019年當時是清華大他們對岸的清華大學副校長來訪嘛所以清大校長去接待嘛然後就說清大被滲透了啦當時有沒有在學校看到很多匪諜有沒有舉報\n\n02:23.524 --> 02:28.389\n我當時當副校長是奉命接待啦那時候校長令有其他的事情不在是是那時候心路歷程是怎樣就是被抹紅的心路歷程是怎樣\n\n02:40.380 --> 03:06.668\n當然是非常委屈嘛我本人是一切是以臺灣為優先我關心我們的社會關心我們的國家的發展所以我的生涯裡面所有的工作不管是在學術界還是在公務員服務擔任校長等等我從來就是不會以政治意識為考量\n\n03:07.697 --> 03:29.795\n那我會以國家本土的發展為優先的考量其實大家都是啦但是有些人就很喜歡抹紅別人扣人家帽子啦那當時罵你最兇的是范雲女士啦也是我們教育文化委員會我是不知道她質詢過了沒啦還沒啊你有沒有什麼話要跟她講嗎說欸委員你誤會我了啦我是一生以台灣為優先不要動不動扣帽子你會這樣子跟她講嗎\n\n03:32.877 --> 03:51.017\n我想委員應該最後還是會明瞭我的心意啦我是為台灣他很難瞭解別人心意啊真的一個有色眼鏡戴酒的人啊很難瞭解別人心意啦很會吃自助餐啦女權自助餐就是要攻擊別人的時候就搬女權然後要袒護自己人的時候就看不到\n\n03:51.738 --> 04:17.833\n所以當時你就是他攻擊的目標啦他很難看到啦我建議你還是要跟他講一下因為現在你的位置特別重要到時候不要國科會推動一些兩岸交流相關事務因為尤其是你在報紙上也講了嘛你說這個不會無意讓大陸科技持續落後啊然後不會介入中美進逐哦等一下可能又被罵了我認為你在第一時間要講清楚好不好我們都是為了台灣\n\n04:18.693 --> 04:29.909\n為台灣為台灣正常的交流不要抹紅對吧我尊照身為政府官我尊照賴總統的指示我們要建造一個\n\n04:31.127 --> 04:33.268\n對,太好了,我們絕對是支持你因為我們都跟你一樣常常被抹紅像最近在國會討論國會改革法也要被講成是幫習近平投票這種\n\n04:52.133 --> 04:54.194\n獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得\n\n05:08.198 --> 05:32.805\n當然延續兩岸的話題大家擔心說兩岸未來會不會有一些國安的問題開戰美國路透社有個報導說荷蘭的ASSml就是一個光科機的一個廠商他說他可以跟我們台積電在遠端只要台灣遇到一些國安問題可以在遠端關閉台積電的一些設備這不知道你有沒有看到這個新聞\n\n05:34.045 --> 05:58.561\n有有看到新聞那那因為當時這個新聞出來之後大家覺得說欸那麼厲害喔原來可以做到這樣的技術那到時候就算開戰好像台積電也不太容易就淪落到他人之手嘛那所以大家很關注啦那因為很多專家後來媒體報導之後出來就進口了就不講了這個事情我想請教一下主委你對這個事情的了解是怎樣有可能在技術上做得到嗎\n\n05:59.881 --> 06:21.610\n以現在在半導體產業的智慧製造的技術是可以做得到是可以做得到所以他們是有能力遠端關閉全球最先進的晶片製造設備EUV是不是是可以的技術上是可以的所以這個新聞就是沒有錯你有證實有這樣的一個技術\n\n06:26.127 --> 06:52.463\n那我們的博客會針對這方面的技術有任何的比如說鼓勵研發嗎或增加相關的能量有嗎這個本身是智慧製造的技術我們各行各業各種設備只要能夠連上網路就可以利用這個智慧製造的這種技術可以來監控遠方的設備包含停機這個事情\n\n06:53.403 --> 07:16.462\n好再來這是我個人接受到一個陳情因為主委剛上任其實這個議題我關心很久了上任主委本來在我執行的時候有答應我說要提出一個解決方案不過每次都是這樣在委員會講的官員的承諾到最後都沒有然後要求給報告給個報告就是講一些無關痛癢的背景從來不針對問題\n\n07:18.303 --> 07:38.869\n所以我利用這個機會也跟主委再講一下希望說主委真的能夠解決這個問題這個問題是因為國科會有一個博士生的研究獎學金的試辦方案去年開始的那去年9月的時候開了一個記者會然後隨即隔一個月立刻就收件那就收件一個月的時間\n\n07:40.829 --> 08:04.877\n這個獎學金主要是要補助新入學的博士生大概是這樣但它裡面有幾個問題會發生第一個問題就是因為它是在一月多的時候就公布得到獎學金的名單九月收件、一個月收件、隔年一月公布導致於說很多是一月之後才決定要讀博士班的學生他是沒有辦法去申請這個獎學金的\n\n08:07.539 --> 08:32.641\n他們就成為漏網之魚啦然後第二個是我覺得這個宣傳是完全不足因為當時我問了很多學校的學生跟學校的老師還有一些本來想要讀博士班的學生他們通通都不知道這個訊息所以我們就質疑說是不是只有巷子內的人才知道有這個東西宣傳不足收件時間又很短\n\n08:33.496 --> 08:52.865\n那只有跟國科會比較熟的人或者是跟國科會裡面官員比較熟的人才有可能得到這個訊息才能夠來申請這也是一個非常大的問題那後來就在博士班裡面造成一個話題很多在學的博士班學生不能接受就認為說這個獎金到底在幹嘛\n\n08:55.106 --> 09:15.396\n那很多人是已經一年級了嘛一年級他就不能夠去申請這個補習班嘛講學金嘛因為這個講學金是針對還沒入學的所以很多一年級的學生他變得說那他再去重新去先爭取到資格然後再去考一個博士班然後想要取得這個講學金的資格\n\n09:16.336 --> 09:44.752\n我上次已經針對相關的問題有質詢過原來的國會主委那時候國會主委也覺得說這有點怪怪的說要提供一個解決方案那那個影片在網路上我也都有公開我有把這影片傳給我們的民眾說我們要國會願意解決可是後來就沒有了就不了了之啊然後給的報告就是那種敷衍的啊那這個東西已經隔了兩個月了啊我們又得到一個答案我們對於我們的民眾也沒辦法交代啊\n\n09:45.552 --> 09:52.457\n那既然國會要編任預算為什麼不能把它做到好呢?我可以請我們柯國促來?可以可以可以因為\n\n09:54.557 --> 10:14.796\n報告啊那其實我們在辦理這個獎學金的時候我們其實有找各個大學的主要大學叫學員長或是國際長有來做個說明那我們也有發過新聞稿你現在就是不夠我剛剛講的是11發這個問題你現在講的是說你做什麼你做比如說你考試啊你考五分啊我現在跟你講說你沒有到100分結果你說有啊我對的數學一題\n\n10:17.719 --> 10:44.637\n那你還差95分嘛所以你不要告訴我這5分的事情我現在是告訴你說你沒有做到100分甚至80分都沒有到你要怎麼解決那我們今年要不然你要怎麼解決因為已經講久了解決方案解決方案是什麼?針對已經發生的因為現在很多博士班一年級二年級的在學生他們也沒有辦法申請嘛那為什麼你只圖利一些就知道這訊息的人呢你為什麼不能夠擴大讓大多數人都可以得到這個獎學金呢\n\n10:45.418 --> 11:10.975\n那我們回去會再﹖不要回去了啦又要回去回去就沒有啦欸主委我前面都對你很客氣我對你都非常客氣那可是我不喜歡人家呼嚨我但是我已經被國科會呼嚨了兩個月了已經呼嚨了兩個月那以後大家也不是沒有見面的機會如果說國會會以後來這邊備許的態度都是我在這邊反正我有時間限制嘛\n\n11:12.416 --> 11:39.378\n先騙一下或者是每次回答問題都從女娲補天開始講然後講到把我時間拖完然後剩下就說回去回去然後最後又沒有補那我覺得這種態度我沒辦法接受所以主委我現在就是嚴厲的要求就是說我因為已經兩個月了什麼時候可以給我一個真正解決的方案下個禮拜下個禮拜主委你講的喔趙偉他那個主委講的趙偉他不理我\n\n11:41.240 --> 12:05.853\n那你幫我跟主委講一下因為我們國民黨的國會比較不理我們民進黨幫我講一下因為我在這邊質詢也是委員會的委員嘛好不好你跟國會講一下說上次已經呼嚨一次了希望他們尊重我們教文委員會可以嗎好不會再呼嚨啦解決方案喔不是說給我一個說從米花普天開始講這種東西喔考100分然後說我考了5分很棒的這種東西喔\n\n12:07.054 --> 12:16.388\n我們只要補救就好啦補救那補救解決嘛上次問題已經講很清楚了好不好大家維持一個互相尊重的良善的互動方式好嗎沒問題好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":11.152,"end":13.494,"text":"麻煩請主委有請吳主委主委好第一次見面但是我從媒體有看到一些關於你的報導個人非常的敬佩像今天有媒體報導說你說無意讓大陸科技持續落後然後也不會介入中美的競逐"},{"start":32.731,"end":47.56,"text":"然後呼籲對方放棄敵意嘛這是報紙報導應該是沒有錯嘛沒有錯我覺得你非常好就是我們沒有意識形態完全站在產業跟科技但是我非常擔心你這樣發言在民進黨政府我不知道說能不能被接受"},{"start":48.18,"end":62.61,"text":"因為我印象當中在2019 2019年的時候民進黨的立委也在我們的委員會范雲女士她就曾經公開抹紅你啊就說你在清大當時好像曾經有參加過一些兩岸交流的學術活動"},{"start":63.45,"end":86.598,"text":"就說你們清大已經已經被這個中共控制了然後當時我們有國民黨委員質詢蘇貞昌院長結果說怎麼可以這樣抹紅呢那結果蘇貞昌院長說沒有抹紅他就是紅然後甚至於講說陸方的分支就是不能夠在清大設置當時我看那個新聞為你抱屈那今天很難得待到這邊可以跟你對話啦可不可以"},{"start":88.098,"end":113.295,"text":"幫我們陳述一下像當時你在被抹紅的時候明明是站在產業站在學術但是動不動被扣帽子變成中共的在台代理人這樣的心情心路歷程是怎樣當時我是擔任清華大學副校長當時是馬英九總統任內鼓勵兩岸的交流那時候是2015年嘛"},{"start":115.733,"end":140.692,"text":"2015 or 2015 or2016.你們有兩件事情被罵啦一件事情是2015啦你去參加一個街牌啦就是一個清華的一個學術中心的街牌還有一個是2019年當時是清華大他們對岸的清華大學副校長來訪嘛所以清大校長去接待嘛然後就說清大被滲透了啦當時有沒有在學校看到很多匪諜有沒有舉報"},{"start":143.524,"end":148.389,"text":"我當時當副校長是奉命接待啦那時候校長令有其他的事情不在是是那時候心路歷程是怎樣就是被抹紅的心路歷程是怎樣"},{"start":160.38,"end":186.668,"text":"當然是非常委屈嘛我本人是一切是以臺灣為優先我關心我們的社會關心我們的國家的發展所以我的生涯裡面所有的工作不管是在學術界還是在公務員服務擔任校長等等我從來就是不會以政治意識為考量"},{"start":187.697,"end":209.795,"text":"那我會以國家本土的發展為優先的考量其實大家都是啦但是有些人就很喜歡抹紅別人扣人家帽子啦那當時罵你最兇的是范雲女士啦也是我們教育文化委員會我是不知道她質詢過了沒啦還沒啊你有沒有什麼話要跟她講嗎說欸委員你誤會我了啦我是一生以台灣為優先不要動不動扣帽子你會這樣子跟她講嗎"},{"start":212.877,"end":231.017,"text":"我想委員應該最後還是會明瞭我的心意啦我是為台灣他很難瞭解別人心意啊真的一個有色眼鏡戴酒的人啊很難瞭解別人心意啦很會吃自助餐啦女權自助餐就是要攻擊別人的時候就搬女權然後要袒護自己人的時候就看不到"},{"start":231.738,"end":257.833,"text":"所以當時你就是他攻擊的目標啦他很難看到啦我建議你還是要跟他講一下因為現在你的位置特別重要到時候不要國科會推動一些兩岸交流相關事務因為尤其是你在報紙上也講了嘛你說這個不會無意讓大陸科技持續落後啊然後不會介入中美進逐哦等一下可能又被罵了我認為你在第一時間要講清楚好不好我們都是為了台灣"},{"start":258.693,"end":269.909,"text":"為台灣為台灣正常的交流不要抹紅對吧我尊照身為政府官我尊照賴總統的指示我們要建造一個"},{"start":271.127,"end":273.268,"text":"對,太好了,我們絕對是支持你因為我們都跟你一樣常常被抹紅像最近在國會討論國會改革法也要被講成是幫習近平投票這種"},{"start":292.133,"end":294.194,"text":"獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得"},{"start":308.198,"end":332.805,"text":"當然延續兩岸的話題大家擔心說兩岸未來會不會有一些國安的問題開戰美國路透社有個報導說荷蘭的ASSml就是一個光科機的一個廠商他說他可以跟我們台積電在遠端只要台灣遇到一些國安問題可以在遠端關閉台積電的一些設備這不知道你有沒有看到這個新聞"},{"start":334.045,"end":358.561,"text":"有有看到新聞那那因為當時這個新聞出來之後大家覺得說欸那麼厲害喔原來可以做到這樣的技術那到時候就算開戰好像台積電也不太容易就淪落到他人之手嘛那所以大家很關注啦那因為很多專家後來媒體報導之後出來就進口了就不講了這個事情我想請教一下主委你對這個事情的了解是怎樣有可能在技術上做得到嗎"},{"start":359.881,"end":381.61,"text":"以現在在半導體產業的智慧製造的技術是可以做得到是可以做得到所以他們是有能力遠端關閉全球最先進的晶片製造設備EUV是不是 是可以的技術上是可以的所以這個新聞就是沒有錯你有證實有這樣的一個技術"},{"start":386.127,"end":412.463,"text":"那我們的博客會針對這方面的技術有任何的比如說鼓勵研發嗎或增加相關的能量有嗎這個本身是智慧製造的技術我們各行各業各種設備只要能夠連上網路就可以利用這個智慧製造的這種技術可以來監控遠方的設備包含停機這個事情"},{"start":413.403,"end":436.462,"text":"好再來這是我個人接受到一個陳情因為主委剛上任其實這個議題我關心很久了上任主委本來在我執行的時候有答應我說要提出一個解決方案不過每次都是這樣在委員會講的官員的承諾到最後都沒有然後要求給報告給個報告就是講一些無關痛癢的背景從來不針對問題"},{"start":438.303,"end":458.869,"text":"所以我利用這個機會也跟主委再講一下希望說主委真的能夠解決這個問題這個問題是因為國科會有一個博士生的研究獎學金的試辦方案去年開始的那去年9月的時候開了一個記者會然後隨即隔一個月立刻就收件那就收件一個月的時間"},{"start":460.829,"end":484.877,"text":"這個獎學金主要是要補助新入學的博士生大概是這樣但它裡面有幾個問題會發生第一個問題就是因為它是在一月多的時候就公布得到獎學金的名單九月收件、一個月收件、隔年一月公布導致於說很多是一月之後才決定要讀博士班的學生他是沒有辦法去申請這個獎學金的"},{"start":487.539,"end":512.641,"text":"他們就成為漏網之魚啦然後第二個是我覺得這個宣傳是完全不足因為當時我問了很多學校的學生跟學校的老師還有一些本來想要讀博士班的學生他們通通都不知道這個訊息所以我們就質疑說是不是只有巷子內的人才知道有這個東西宣傳不足收件時間又很短"},{"start":513.496,"end":532.865,"text":"那只有跟國科會比較熟的人或者是跟國科會裡面官員比較熟的人才有可能得到這個訊息才能夠來申請這也是一個非常大的問題那後來就在博士班裡面造成一個話題很多在學的博士班學生不能接受就認為說這個獎金到底在幹嘛"},{"start":535.106,"end":555.396,"text":"那很多人是已經一年級了嘛一年級他就不能夠去申請這個補習班嘛講學金嘛因為這個講學金是針對還沒入學的所以很多一年級的學生他變得說那他再去重新去先爭取到資格然後再去考一個博士班然後想要取得這個講學金的資格"},{"start":556.336,"end":584.752,"text":"我上次已經針對相關的問題有質詢過原來的國會主委那時候國會主委也覺得說這有點怪怪的說要提供一個解決方案那那個影片在網路上我也都有公開我有把這影片傳給我們的民眾說我們要國會願意解決可是後來就沒有了就不了了之啊然後給的報告就是那種敷衍的啊那這個東西已經隔了兩個月了啊我們又得到一個答案我們對於我們的民眾也沒辦法交代啊"},{"start":585.552,"end":592.457,"text":"那既然國會要編任預算為什麼不能把它做到好呢?我可以請我們柯國促來?可以可以可以因為"},{"start":594.557,"end":614.796,"text":"報告啊那其實我們在辦理這個獎學金的時候我們其實有找各個大學的主要大學叫學員長或是國際長有來做個說明那我們也有發過新聞稿你現在就是不夠我剛剛講的是11發這個問題你現在講的是說你做什麼你做比如說你考試啊你考五分啊我現在跟你講說你沒有到100分結果你說有啊我對的數學一題"},{"start":617.719,"end":644.637,"text":"那你還差95分嘛所以你不要告訴我這5分的事情我現在是告訴你說你沒有做到100分甚至80分都沒有到你要怎麼解決那我們今年要不然你要怎麼解決因為已經講久了解決方案解決方案是什麼?針對已經發生的因為現在很多博士班一年級二年級的在學生他們也沒有辦法申請嘛那為什麼你只圖利一些就知道這訊息的人呢你為什麼不能夠擴大讓大多數人都可以得到這個獎學金呢"},{"start":645.418,"end":670.975,"text":"那我們回去會再﹖ 不要回去了啦又要回去回去就沒有啦 欸主委我前面都對你很客氣我對你都非常客氣那可是我不喜歡人家呼嚨我但是我已經被國科會呼嚨了兩個月了已經呼嚨了兩個月那以後大家也不是沒有見面的機會如果說國會會以後來這邊備許的態度都是我在這邊反正我有時間限制嘛"},{"start":672.416,"end":699.378,"text":"先騙一下或者是每次回答問題都從女娲補天開始講然後講到把我時間拖完然後剩下就說回去回去然後最後又沒有補那我覺得這種態度我沒辦法接受所以主委我現在就是嚴厲的要求就是說我因為已經兩個月了什麼時候可以給我一個真正解決的方案下個禮拜下個禮拜主委你講的喔 趙偉他那個主委講的趙偉他不理我"},{"start":701.24,"end":725.853,"text":"那你幫我跟主委講一下因為我們國民黨的國會比較不理我們民進黨幫我講一下因為我在這邊質詢也是委員會的委員嘛好不好你跟國會講一下說上次已經呼嚨一次了希望他們尊重我們教文委員會可以嗎好不會再呼嚨啦解決方案喔不是說給我一個說從米花普天開始講這種東西喔考100分然後說我考了5分很棒的這種東西喔"},{"start":727.054,"end":736.388,"text":"我們只要補救就好啦補救那補救解決嘛上次問題已經講很清楚了好不好大家維持一個互相尊重的良善的互動方式好嗎沒問題好謝謝"}]}}}}