{"id":152921,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152921","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d339c8d1909fa4531dc4d17317ae42e79f2fcaa3dc194f73d34e896d657c5e833cf91e161b04d6245ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳春城","委員發言時間":"12:02:59 - 12:10:49","影片長度":"00:07:50","會議時間":"2024-05-23T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【5月22日、23日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-23","duration":470,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第17次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":17,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-17"},"end_time":"2024-05-23T12:10:49+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-23T12:02:59+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1022,"blocks":[["吳委員春城：（12時3分）有請何部長。"],["主席：請何部長。"],["何部長佩珊：是，委員好。"],["吳委員春城：部長好。"],["何部長佩珊：是，謝謝。"],["吳委員春城：勞動部是最支持壯世代的，部長知道嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：是，我知道。"],["吳委員春城：所以你會……"],["何部長佩珊：我個人也很支持。"],["吳委員春城：你很支持？會繼續支持？"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["吳委員春城：延續許部長的政策？"],["何部長佩珊：當然。"],["吳委員春城：好，謝謝你。整個剛才提到缺工的問題，只是冰山之一角，其實深層的是臺灣人口的結構問題，高齡化、少子化，但是政府並沒有完善的配套措施，所以現在有點爛攤子，是勞動部在收爛攤子。現在政府對於高齡化只有福利，所以幾乎費用都到衛福部了，80%到衛福部，其他部門只要遇到高齡就視而不見、與我無關，但是我在看，面對未來，這可能會成為人口一半的高齡社會，倒三角形。勞動部反而是要負擔主責，在對於未來臺灣人口結構當中，因為人人都要工作，在長壽社會，工作也是價值，也是整個社會的連結，產業、經濟包括到個人各方面都是有所需求，所以部長有這個覺悟嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["吳委員春城：有？"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["吳委員春城：對於人口，未來勞動部要扮演的角色，你不是配合者，你可能要變成主導者，要把這個棒子搶回來。"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["吳委員春城：撫養比，這個是大家都在擔心的事情，我們現在高齡者就是當分子，被撫養的，工作的人口當分母，因為少子化，所以分母就越來越小；因為高齡化，所以分子就越來越大，目前是4比1，四個撫養一個，到2040年會變成2比1，兩個撫養一個，到2057年會1比1，接下來分子就會大於分母，這叫崩潰的世代，年輕人都被壓垮了、都沒未來了。那怎麼解決？這個是學者都知道、大家都知道的事情，我現在也沒有看到政府針對這樣的狀況有什麼解決方式。我在提倡的壯世代其實是為這個而來，怎麼解決？就是把分子拉下來當分母，把分子壯起來，因為他繼續成為一個生產者、成為一個勞動者以及消費者，有活躍的第三人生，因為現在人都很長壽，我們現在搞了臥床8年，人家北歐國家目標是兩週，也就是未來的老人只有兩週當老人，其他的時間都叫壯世代，繼續可以勞動、可以生產、可以消費，這樣子的分母就強壯起來，壯臺灣嘛！臺灣才會強壯起來嘛！而且世代會共融。所以要解決這個問題，我們現在最大的問題都是銀髮思維，政府這幾年在各個部會當中，包括行政院對高齡什麼科技，只要你過了60歲以後就沒有政策，只剩下一個政策叫長照政策─養生、養病、養老，但是這些人會有30年「沐沐泅」，未來好像在沙漠裡面，所以我們要把他翻轉成為壯世代。有時間的話，我跟部長再找時間好好討論。","關於壯世代，我在這個立法院也成立了壯世代政策產業發展促進會，非常盛大的，有63個跨黨派的立委加入，這個議題是不分黨派的，我們都要一起支持，所以也請勞動部，你們如果要推動這個政策，我們各部分很多都可以來支持你。勞動部目前有推了這兩個措施，55Plus壯世代就業促進措施，還有5050壯世代就業網絡合作計畫，我也看到各地的分署都在積極推動這兩件事情，但是除了這兩件事情，可能要再更深化一點。所以許銘春部長很可愛，他說他要做壯世代代言人，我想他是有感而發，的確真正的領悟到對這一個世代，你可能比較年輕，他可能會覺得真的是退休以後，他要繼續來推動這一個。","另外一個是勞基法的修訂，我也跟王正旭委員聯合修訂了勞基法第五十四條，讓65歲以後不是強制退休，而是可以透過勞資協議當中得延長之，也希望部長支持，而且勞基法對於退休的規定，現在實在是太沒人性了，也不敢太早退休，延後退休也不行，退休以後要回來也很困難，導致於這些人龐大的能力，我們平均退休60歲，60歲現在有600萬人卡在這裡，耗損著整個國力，這個要靠勞基法、靠勞動部來釋放這些人的勞動力。所以不是只有剛才那兩樣，那是救急目前的缺工問題，當然更深化的就是要請部長繼續在勞動部推動，雇主留用65歲要有獎勵措施、要有誘因，同時對勞工也要有誘因、要有鼓勵，各種的措施要提出來，對於現在缺工的行業當中，要積極的來引導中高齡就業協助的各種措施，包括宣傳、企業的講座等各種方面。","第三個，要排除重返職場的困境，事實上包括個人很多的培訓、個人生涯的規劃，很多人到了50歲以後就抱著待退、耗損的心理，所以像這一方面要讓我們的勞動力能夠多方面地開發。最重要的還是，勞基法還有中高齡的就業促進法，最好能夠改名字叫做壯世代就業促進法。因為中高齡是45歲就叫做中高齡，這個真的有點太離譜了，出國唸書回來都40歲了，然後45歲就開始輔導待退，很多觀念真的都非常過時了，部長認同吧？所以我們一起來修改這一個。"],["何部長佩珊：好。"],["吳委員春城：好的，謝謝部長。"],["主席：謝謝吳春城委員發言。","在這邊作以下宣告：我們中午不休息，直到質詢結束再散會。","現在請楊瓊瓔委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":464,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-17","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","盧縣一","蘇清泉","王育敏","涂權吉","林淑芬","王正旭","鄭天財Sra 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\"吳\"}, {\"word\": \"春\", \"start\": 459.266, \"end\": 459.606, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"城\", \"start\": 459.606, \"end\": 459.766, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 459.766, \"end\": 459.786, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,362 --> 00:00:06,004\n有請何部長\n\n2\n00:00:10,888 --> 00:00:37,633\n市委員好部長好勞動部是最支持壯世代的部長知道嗎?是我知道我也很支持會繼續支持延續許部長的政策當然謝謝你那整個剛才在提到的下一個缺工的問題只是冰山之一角\n\n3\n00:00:38,953 --> 00:01:00,625\n其實深層的是臺灣的人口結構的問題高齡化、少子化但是政府並沒有完善的配套措施所以現在有點爛攤子是勞動部在說爛攤子現在政府對於這個高齡化只有福利\n\n4\n00:01:01,765 --> 00:01:26,881\n所以幾乎的費用都到衛福部去了到衛福部80%其他部門就是只要遇到高齡就視而不見與我無關但是我在看整個面對未來這可能會成為人口一半的高齡社會倒三角形勞動部反而是要負擔主責\n\n5\n00:01:28,542 --> 00:01:28,562\n是﹖\n\n6\n00:01:49,958 --> 00:02:01,543\n對於這個人口未來要勞動部要扮演的角色你不是配合者你可能要變成主導者要把這個棒子搶回來這個是大家都在擔心的事情撫養筆我們現在這個\n\n7\n00:02:05,325 --> 00:02:22,258\n高齡者就是當分子嘛,被撫養的然後工作的人口當分母嘛因為少子化所以分母就越來越小因為高齡化所以分子就越來越大目前是4比1,4個撫養一個到2040年會變成2比1,兩個撫養一個到2057年會1比1\n\n8\n00:02:28,402 --> 00:02:55,636\n接下來分子就會大於分母這叫崩潰的世代那年輕人都被壓垮了都沒未來的啦那怎麼解決我現在沒有看到我沒有看到政府針對這樣子大家學者都知道這個是大家都知道的事情我沒有看到有什麼解決那我在提倡的壯世代其實是為這個而來怎麼解決就是把分子拉下來當分母把分子壯起來\n\n9\n00:02:57,798 --> 00:03:11,946\n因為他繼續成為一個生產者成為一個勞動者然後消費者有活躍的第三人生因為現在人都很長壽我們現在搞了臥床八年人家北歐國家目標是兩週\n\n10\n00:03:13,507 --> 00:03:36,818\n也就是說以未來的老人只有兩週當老人啦其他的時間都叫撞世代啦繼續可以勞動可以生產可以消費那這樣子的分母就很強壯起來這撞台灣嘛台灣才會強壯起來嘛而且世代會共融所以要解決這個問題我們現在最大的問題都是引法思維\n\n11\n00:03:37,978 --> 00:03:52,870\n政府這幾年各部門當中包括行政院對高齡什麼科技弄了都把只要你過了60歲以後就沒有政策只剩下一個政策叫長照政策養生養病養老但是這些人會有30年未來\n\n12\n00:03:56,013 --> 00:03:56,153\n拜訪委員\n\n13\n00:04:27,494 --> 00:04:54,175\n然後勞動部目前有推了這項55plus壯世代的就業促進措施還有5050壯世代的就業網絡合作計畫那我看到這個各地的分署都在積極來推動這兩件事情但是除了這兩件事情可能要再更深化一點所以那個徐民部長很可愛他說他要做壯世代代言人\n\n14\n00:04:55,376 --> 00:04:55,516\n接下來﹖\n\n15\n00:05:14,383 --> 00:05:29,701\n那另外一個勞基法的修訂那我也跟那個王振旭委員我們聯合修訂了這個勞基法54條讓65歲以後不是強制退休而是可以透過勞資的協議當中得延長值\n\n16\n00:05:33,826 --> 00:05:54,144\n希望這個部長支持而且勞基法對於退休的規定現在實在是太沒人性了也不敢太早退休然後退休也不行退休以後要回來也很困難導致於這些人龐大的人力我們平均退休60歲60歲現在有600萬人卡在這裡卡在耗損的整個國力\n\n17\n00:05:59,450 --> 00:06:00,694\n這個要靠勞基法、靠勞動部來釋放這些勞動力\n\n18\n00:06:04,482 --> 00:06:32,699\n好那精進所以不是只有剛才那兩頁那個是究極目前的缺工問題當然更深化的就是要請部長繼續的在勞動部來雇主留用65歲要有獎勵措施要有誘因那同時對勞工也要有誘因要有鼓勵各種的措施要提出來然後這一個\n\n19\n00:06:33,900 --> 00:06:53,092\n對於現在缺工的行業當中要積極的來引導這個中高齡的就業協助的各種的措施﹖包括宣傳各種的企業的講座各種的方面那第三個要排除重返職場的困境那事實上這個\n\n20\n00:06:55,273 --> 00:06:56,614\n吳春城委員吳春城委員\n\n21\n00:07:12,228 --> 00:07:35,743\n讓我們的勞動力能夠多方面的開發啦可以多方面的開發那最重要的還是勞基法還有中高齡的這個就業促進法那這個最好能夠改名字叫做壯士代就業促進法因為中高齡是45歲就叫中高齡這個真的有點太離譜啦出國念書回來都40歲然後45歲就開始輔導代退\n\n22\n00:07:39,266 --> 00:07:39,786\n謝謝吳春城委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5362\t6004\t有請何部長\n10888\t37633\t市委員好部長好勞動部是最支持壯世代的部長知道嗎?是我知道我也很支持會繼續支持延續許部長的政策當然謝謝你那整個剛才在提到的下一個缺工的問題只是冰山之一角\n38953\t60625\t其實深層的是臺灣的人口結構的問題高齡化、少子化但是政府並沒有完善的配套措施所以現在有點爛攤子是勞動部在說爛攤子現在政府對於這個高齡化只有福利\n61765\t86881\t所以幾乎的費用都到衛福部去了到衛福部80%其他部門就是只要遇到高齡就視而不見與我無關但是我在看整個面對未來這可能會成為人口一半的高齡社會倒三角形勞動部反而是要負擔主責\n88542\t88562\t是﹖\n109958\t121543\t對於這個人口未來要勞動部要扮演的角色你不是配合者你可能要變成主導者要把這個棒子搶回來這個是大家都在擔心的事情撫養筆我們現在這個\n125325\t142258\t高齡者就是當分子嘛,被撫養的然後工作的人口當分母嘛因為少子化所以分母就越來越小因為高齡化所以分子就越來越大目前是4比1,4個撫養一個到2040年會變成2比1,兩個撫養一個到2057年會1比1\n148402\t175636\t接下來分子就會大於分母這叫崩潰的世代那年輕人都被壓垮了都沒未來的啦那怎麼解決我現在沒有看到我沒有看到政府針對這樣子大家學者都知道這個是大家都知道的事情我沒有看到有什麼解決那我在提倡的壯世代其實是為這個而來怎麼解決就是把分子拉下來當分母把分子壯起來\n177798\t191946\t因為他繼續成為一個生產者成為一個勞動者然後消費者有活躍的第三人生因為現在人都很長壽我們現在搞了臥床八年人家北歐國家目標是兩週\n193507\t216818\t也就是說以未來的老人只有兩週當老人啦其他的時間都叫撞世代啦繼續可以勞動可以生產可以消費那這樣子的分母就很強壯起來這撞台灣嘛台灣才會強壯起來嘛而且世代會共融所以要解決這個問題我們現在最大的問題都是引法思維\n217978\t232870\t政府這幾年各部門當中包括行政院對高齡什麼科技弄了都把只要你過了60歲以後就沒有政策只剩下一個政策叫長照政策養生養病養老但是這些人會有30年未來\n236013\t236153\t拜訪委員\n267494\t294175\t然後勞動部目前有推了這項55plus壯世代的就業促進措施還有5050壯世代的就業網絡合作計畫那我看到這個各地的分署都在積極來推動這兩件事情但是除了這兩件事情可能要再更深化一點所以那個徐民部長很可愛他說他要做壯世代代言人\n295376\t295516\t接下來﹖\n314383\t329701\t那另外一個勞基法的修訂那我也跟那個王振旭委員我們聯合修訂了這個勞基法54條讓65歲以後不是強制退休而是可以透過勞資的協議當中得延長值\n333826\t354144\t希望這個部長支持而且勞基法對於退休的規定現在實在是太沒人性了也不敢太早退休然後退休也不行退休以後要回來也很困難導致於這些人龐大的人力我們平均退休60歲60歲現在有600萬人卡在這裡卡在耗損的整個國力\n359450\t360694\t這個要靠勞基法、靠勞動部來釋放這些勞動力\n364482\t392699\t好那精進所以不是只有剛才那兩頁那個是究極目前的缺工問題當然更深化的就是要請部長繼續的在勞動部來雇主留用65歲要有獎勵措施要有誘因那同時對勞工也要有誘因要有鼓勵各種的措施要提出來然後這一個\n393900\t413092\t對於現在缺工的行業當中要積極的來引導這個中高齡的就業協助的各種的措施﹖包括宣傳各種的企業的講座各種的方面那第三個要排除重返職場的困境那事實上這個\n415273\t416614\t吳春城委員吳春城委員\n432228\t455743\t讓我們的勞動力能夠多方面的開發啦可以多方面的開發那最重要的還是勞基法還有中高齡的這個就業促進法那這個最好能夠改名字叫做壯士代就業促進法因為中高齡是45歲就叫中高齡這個真的有點太離譜啦出國念書回來都40歲然後45歲就開始輔導代退\n459266\t459786\t謝謝吳春城委員\n","txt":"有請何部長\n市委員好部長好勞動部是最支持壯世代的部長知道嗎?是我知道我也很支持會繼續支持延續許部長的政策當然謝謝你那整個剛才在提到的下一個缺工的問題只是冰山之一角\n其實深層的是臺灣的人口結構的問題高齡化、少子化但是政府並沒有完善的配套措施所以現在有點爛攤子是勞動部在說爛攤子現在政府對於這個高齡化只有福利\n所以幾乎的費用都到衛福部去了到衛福部80%其他部門就是只要遇到高齡就視而不見與我無關但是我在看整個面對未來這可能會成為人口一半的高齡社會倒三角形勞動部反而是要負擔主責\n是﹖\n對於這個人口未來要勞動部要扮演的角色你不是配合者你可能要變成主導者要把這個棒子搶回來這個是大家都在擔心的事情撫養筆我們現在這個\n高齡者就是當分子嘛,被撫養的然後工作的人口當分母嘛因為少子化所以分母就越來越小因為高齡化所以分子就越來越大目前是4比1,4個撫養一個到2040年會變成2比1,兩個撫養一個到2057年會1比1\n接下來分子就會大於分母這叫崩潰的世代那年輕人都被壓垮了都沒未來的啦那怎麼解決我現在沒有看到我沒有看到政府針對這樣子大家學者都知道這個是大家都知道的事情我沒有看到有什麼解決那我在提倡的壯世代其實是為這個而來怎麼解決就是把分子拉下來當分母把分子壯起來\n因為他繼續成為一個生產者成為一個勞動者然後消費者有活躍的第三人生因為現在人都很長壽我們現在搞了臥床八年人家北歐國家目標是兩週\n也就是說以未來的老人只有兩週當老人啦其他的時間都叫撞世代啦繼續可以勞動可以生產可以消費那這樣子的分母就很強壯起來這撞台灣嘛台灣才會強壯起來嘛而且世代會共融所以要解決這個問題我們現在最大的問題都是引法思維\n政府這幾年各部門當中包括行政院對高齡什麼科技弄了都把只要你過了60歲以後就沒有政策只剩下一個政策叫長照政策養生養病養老但是這些人會有30年未來\n拜訪委員\n然後勞動部目前有推了這項55plus壯世代的就業促進措施還有5050壯世代的就業網絡合作計畫那我看到這個各地的分署都在積極來推動這兩件事情但是除了這兩件事情可能要再更深化一點所以那個徐民部長很可愛他說他要做壯世代代言人\n接下來﹖\n那另外一個勞基法的修訂那我也跟那個王振旭委員我們聯合修訂了這個勞基法54條讓65歲以後不是強制退休而是可以透過勞資的協議當中得延長值\n希望這個部長支持而且勞基法對於退休的規定現在實在是太沒人性了也不敢太早退休然後退休也不行退休以後要回來也很困難導致於這些人龐大的人力我們平均退休60歲60歲現在有600萬人卡在這裡卡在耗損的整個國力\n這個要靠勞基法、靠勞動部來釋放這些勞動力\n好那精進所以不是只有剛才那兩頁那個是究極目前的缺工問題當然更深化的就是要請部長繼續的在勞動部來雇主留用65歲要有獎勵措施要有誘因那同時對勞工也要有誘因要有鼓勵各種的措施要提出來然後這一個\n對於現在缺工的行業當中要積極的來引導這個中高齡的就業協助的各種的措施﹖包括宣傳各種的企業的講座各種的方面那第三個要排除重返職場的困境那事實上這個\n吳春城委員吳春城委員\n讓我們的勞動力能夠多方面的開發啦可以多方面的開發那最重要的還是勞基法還有中高齡的這個就業促進法那這個最好能夠改名字叫做壯士代就業促進法因為中高齡是45歲就叫中高齡這個真的有點太離譜啦出國念書回來都40歲然後45歲就開始輔導代退\n謝謝吳春城委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.362 --> 00:06.004\n有請何部長\n\n00:10.888 --> 00:37.633\n市委員好部長好勞動部是最支持壯世代的部長知道嗎?是我知道我也很支持會繼續支持延續許部長的政策當然謝謝你那整個剛才在提到的下一個缺工的問題只是冰山之一角\n\n00:38.953 --> 01:00.625\n其實深層的是臺灣的人口結構的問題高齡化、少子化但是政府並沒有完善的配套措施所以現在有點爛攤子是勞動部在說爛攤子現在政府對於這個高齡化只有福利\n\n01:01.765 --> 01:26.881\n所以幾乎的費用都到衛福部去了到衛福部80%其他部門就是只要遇到高齡就視而不見與我無關但是我在看整個面對未來這可能會成為人口一半的高齡社會倒三角形勞動部反而是要負擔主責\n\n01:28.542 --> 01:28.562\n是﹖\n\n01:49.958 --> 02:01.543\n對於這個人口未來要勞動部要扮演的角色你不是配合者你可能要變成主導者要把這個棒子搶回來這個是大家都在擔心的事情撫養筆我們現在這個\n\n02:05.325 --> 02:22.258\n高齡者就是當分子嘛,被撫養的然後工作的人口當分母嘛因為少子化所以分母就越來越小因為高齡化所以分子就越來越大目前是4比1,4個撫養一個到2040年會變成2比1,兩個撫養一個到2057年會1比1\n\n02:28.402 --> 02:55.636\n接下來分子就會大於分母這叫崩潰的世代那年輕人都被壓垮了都沒未來的啦那怎麼解決我現在沒有看到我沒有看到政府針對這樣子大家學者都知道這個是大家都知道的事情我沒有看到有什麼解決那我在提倡的壯世代其實是為這個而來怎麼解決就是把分子拉下來當分母把分子壯起來\n\n02:57.798 --> 03:11.946\n因為他繼續成為一個生產者成為一個勞動者然後消費者有活躍的第三人生因為現在人都很長壽我們現在搞了臥床八年人家北歐國家目標是兩週\n\n03:13.507 --> 03:36.818\n也就是說以未來的老人只有兩週當老人啦其他的時間都叫撞世代啦繼續可以勞動可以生產可以消費那這樣子的分母就很強壯起來這撞台灣嘛台灣才會強壯起來嘛而且世代會共融所以要解決這個問題我們現在最大的問題都是引法思維\n\n03:37.978 --> 03:52.870\n政府這幾年各部門當中包括行政院對高齡什麼科技弄了都把只要你過了60歲以後就沒有政策只剩下一個政策叫長照政策養生養病養老但是這些人會有30年未來\n\n03:56.013 --> 03:56.153\n拜訪委員\n\n04:27.494 --> 04:54.175\n然後勞動部目前有推了這項55plus壯世代的就業促進措施還有5050壯世代的就業網絡合作計畫那我看到這個各地的分署都在積極來推動這兩件事情但是除了這兩件事情可能要再更深化一點所以那個徐民部長很可愛他說他要做壯世代代言人\n\n04:55.376 --> 04:55.516\n接下來﹖\n\n05:14.383 --> 05:29.701\n那另外一個勞基法的修訂那我也跟那個王振旭委員我們聯合修訂了這個勞基法54條讓65歲以後不是強制退休而是可以透過勞資的協議當中得延長值\n\n05:33.826 --> 05:54.144\n希望這個部長支持而且勞基法對於退休的規定現在實在是太沒人性了也不敢太早退休然後退休也不行退休以後要回來也很困難導致於這些人龐大的人力我們平均退休60歲60歲現在有600萬人卡在這裡卡在耗損的整個國力\n\n05:59.450 --> 06:00.694\n這個要靠勞基法、靠勞動部來釋放這些勞動力\n\n06:04.482 --> 06:32.699\n好那精進所以不是只有剛才那兩頁那個是究極目前的缺工問題當然更深化的就是要請部長繼續的在勞動部來雇主留用65歲要有獎勵措施要有誘因那同時對勞工也要有誘因要有鼓勵各種的措施要提出來然後這一個\n\n06:33.900 --> 06:53.092\n對於現在缺工的行業當中要積極的來引導這個中高齡的就業協助的各種的措施﹖包括宣傳各種的企業的講座各種的方面那第三個要排除重返職場的困境那事實上這個\n\n06:55.273 --> 06:56.614\n吳春城委員吳春城委員\n\n07:12.228 --> 07:35.743\n讓我們的勞動力能夠多方面的開發啦可以多方面的開發那最重要的還是勞基法還有中高齡的這個就業促進法那這個最好能夠改名字叫做壯士代就業促進法因為中高齡是45歲就叫中高齡這個真的有點太離譜啦出國念書回來都40歲然後45歲就開始輔導代退\n\n07:39.266 --> 07:39.786\n謝謝吳春城委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.362,"end":6.004,"text":"有請何部長"},{"start":10.888,"end":37.633,"text":"市委員好部長好勞動部是最支持壯世代的部長知道嗎?是我知道我也很支持會繼續支持延續許部長的政策當然謝謝你那整個剛才在提到的下一個缺工的問題只是冰山之一角"},{"start":38.953,"end":60.625,"text":"其實深層的是臺灣的人口結構的問題高齡化、少子化但是政府並沒有完善的配套措施所以現在有點爛攤子是勞動部在說爛攤子現在政府對於這個高齡化只有福利"},{"start":61.765,"end":86.881,"text":"所以幾乎的費用都到衛福部去了到衛福部80%其他部門就是只要遇到高齡就視而不見與我無關但是我在看整個面對未來這可能會成為人口一半的高齡社會倒三角形勞動部反而是要負擔主責"},{"start":88.542,"end":88.562,"text":"是﹖"},{"start":109.958,"end":121.543,"text":"對於這個人口未來要勞動部要扮演的角色你不是配合者你可能要變成主導者要把這個棒子搶回來這個是大家都在擔心的事情撫養筆我們現在這個"},{"start":125.325,"end":142.258,"text":"高齡者就是當分子嘛,被撫養的然後工作的人口當分母嘛因為少子化所以分母就越來越小因為高齡化所以分子就越來越大目前是4比1,4個撫養一個到2040年會變成2比1,兩個撫養一個到2057年會1比1"},{"start":148.402,"end":175.636,"text":"接下來分子就會大於分母這叫崩潰的世代那年輕人都被壓垮了都沒未來的啦那怎麼解決我現在沒有看到我沒有看到政府針對這樣子大家學者都知道這個是大家都知道的事情我沒有看到有什麼解決那我在提倡的壯世代其實是為這個而來怎麼解決就是把分子拉下來當分母把分子壯起來"},{"start":177.798,"end":191.946,"text":"因為他繼續成為一個生產者成為一個勞動者然後消費者有活躍的第三人生因為現在人都很長壽我們現在搞了臥床八年人家北歐國家目標是兩週"},{"start":193.507,"end":216.818,"text":"也就是說以未來的老人只有兩週當老人啦其他的時間都叫撞世代啦繼續可以勞動可以生產可以消費那這樣子的分母就很強壯起來這撞台灣嘛台灣才會強壯起來嘛而且世代會共融所以要解決這個問題我們現在最大的問題都是引法思維"},{"start":217.978,"end":232.87,"text":"政府這幾年各部門當中包括行政院對高齡什麼科技弄了都把只要你過了60歲以後就沒有政策只剩下一個政策叫長照政策養生養病養老但是這些人會有30年未來"},{"start":236.013,"end":236.153,"text":"拜訪委員"},{"start":267.494,"end":294.175,"text":"然後勞動部目前有推了這項55plus壯世代的就業促進措施還有5050壯世代的就業網絡合作計畫那我看到這個各地的分署都在積極來推動這兩件事情但是除了這兩件事情可能要再更深化一點所以那個徐民部長很可愛他說他要做壯世代代言人"},{"start":295.376,"end":295.516,"text":"接下來﹖"},{"start":314.383,"end":329.701,"text":"那另外一個勞基法的修訂那我也跟那個王振旭委員我們聯合修訂了這個勞基法54條讓65歲以後不是強制退休而是可以透過勞資的協議當中得延長值"},{"start":333.826,"end":354.144,"text":"希望這個部長支持而且勞基法對於退休的規定現在實在是太沒人性了也不敢太早退休然後退休也不行退休以後要回來也很困難導致於這些人龐大的人力我們平均退休60歲60歲現在有600萬人卡在這裡卡在耗損的整個國力"},{"start":359.45,"end":360.694,"text":"這個要靠勞基法、靠勞動部來釋放這些勞動力"},{"start":364.482,"end":392.699,"text":"好那精進所以不是只有剛才那兩頁那個是究極目前的缺工問題當然更深化的就是要請部長繼續的在勞動部來雇主留用65歲要有獎勵措施要有誘因那同時對勞工也要有誘因要有鼓勵各種的措施要提出來然後這一個"},{"start":393.9,"end":413.092,"text":"對於現在缺工的行業當中要積極的來引導這個中高齡的就業協助的各種的措施﹖包括宣傳各種的企業的講座各種的方面那第三個要排除重返職場的困境那事實上這個"},{"start":415.273,"end":416.614,"text":"吳春城委員吳春城委員"},{"start":432.228,"end":455.743,"text":"讓我們的勞動力能夠多方面的開發啦可以多方面的開發那最重要的還是勞基法還有中高齡的這個就業促進法那這個最好能夠改名字叫做壯士代就業促進法因為中高齡是45歲就叫中高齡這個真的有點太離譜啦出國念書回來都40歲然後45歲就開始輔導代退"},{"start":459.266,"end":459.786,"text":"謝謝吳春城委員"}]}}}}