{"id":152995,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152995","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/536b9eee2a0ea5b3cf43e2664d9ae2f3442d3172de404894945ede7791f90b9e5b2e05361ecac97e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李昆澤","委員發言時間":"09:48:00 - 09:59:25","影片長度":"00:11:25","會議時間":"2024-05-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於數位發展部主管預算凍結案計11案。\n【5月27日及29日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-27","duration":685,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-14"},"end_time":"2024-05-27T09:59:25+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-27T09:48:00+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":233,"blocks":[["李委員昆澤：（9時48分）謝謝主席，請一下黃部長。"],["主席：有請黃部長。"],["李委員昆澤：部長是老實人，第一次上質詢臺不要緊張，部長你好。林沛祥委員剛才已經提到重點，打詐是數位部的工作之一，當然，對於推動服務型的數位政府，以及推動數位產業經濟，甚至是資安，這都是數位部的重要工作項目。當然目前大家都集中在相關詐騙的議題，這也是由於詐騙案件在數位領域的數量逐年上升，成為國家重要的議題，因為它除了造成個人或者是企業的重大損失之外，對於社會的安全跟穩定也造成很大的衝擊，所以我想很多的委員大家都重視打詐，尤其是網路詐欺的這個部分。","我們看到2023年詐騙件數的統計，詐騙的總件數是成長了將近三成，其中最大的部分就是投資詐欺的件數，成長了將近八成，因為這個嚴重的狀況，大家對於數位部的要求跟期待就會越來越高。前五大的詐騙類型包括投資詐欺、解除分期付款的詐欺（ATM），或者是假網路的拍賣（購物）或者是一般購物的詐欺（偽稱買賣），甚至假愛情交友，件數都非常多，現在社會大眾期待數位部的新部長對於打詐有更具體的策略，以及你預期的目標，給你時間簡單說明一下。"],["黃部長彥男：謝謝委員。我一直強調，我們在這裡面，第一個當然是法的通過，包括電子簽章法跟所謂的打詐專法，應該短期之內會通過，這給我們一些工具對我們監管的業者，像網路平臺、廣告商、電商、第三方支付及遊戲商能夠做進一步地監管跟處理，也可以要求他們配合政府打詐的一些行動跟工作。我剛剛一直強調，我們希望有個很快的打詐服務，能夠提供打詐通報跟查詢，讓民眾可以很快地去查詢現在收到的訊息是不是可能是詐騙，用這個方式，我們也很快地把這個東西分流，讓各部會能夠很快地看到最新的詐騙訊息後就即時處理。當然我們會推動像所謂的短碼跟短網址以及隱碼系統，讓我們能夠瞭解什麼樣的訊息是可信任的，並建立可信任訊息的傳遞方式，讓民眾……"],["李委員昆澤：好，可信任訊息這些相關的建構，你預計在什麼時候之內可以完成初步的建構呢？"],["黃部長彥男：111這樣政府短碼的建構已經推動了，而且目前得到的效果還蠻好的。另外，我也跟其他部會談過，以後像金管會的銀行也會有短碼，然後我們其他部會如果是可信任的商業公司，都應該要申請短碼，這個應該是在短期之內……"],["李委員昆澤：短期是多短？"],["黃部長彥男：目前是期望在年底之前……"],["李委員昆澤：在年底之前，希望趕快推動短碼。防範這種數位詐騙，當然要加強第三方支付的管理，剛才也提到中央政府有反詐四法，即洗錢防制法、科技偵查及保障法、通訊保障及監察法、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例。我們看到劍青檢改，就是由很多檢察官所組成的團體，他們有多次的研討會，也具體地建議要加強第三方支付管理業的管理。其實第三方支付的管理有三大難處：第一、綁定信用卡、手機不用進行本人驗證，第二、區分金流大量的虛擬帳號，第三、第三方支付也不是特許行業，所以登記有高達一萬四千多間，相對金融業管理上是相對鬆散。所以我們要如何去做有效地規範、如何要求業者建立數據庫，或者是要紀錄金流跟交易的紀錄，以及KYC，就是身分確認，要求平臺來做商業確認，要建立聯防平臺來做處理跟規範？數位部有沒有具體的作法，跟目前的進度？說明一下。"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，第一個第三方支付的部分，剛剛這邊有一個數目，就是我們有一萬多個第三方支付的業者，我們要求他們現在做能量登錄，能量登錄的結果，目前只有53家通過，便於我們管理。這53家裡面，我們也要求它要對申請者進行實名制、KYC的驗證。另外，我們有所謂第三方支付的聯防平臺，給警檢單位能夠做很快的偵查。因為這樣的關係，目前我們看到第三方支付的效果，詐騙就下降很多，這個細節部分是不是請署長做補充？"],["李委員昆澤：來，署長說明一下。"],["呂署長正華：好，謝謝委員給我們補充的機會。剛剛部長提到的就是現在只有53家，要通過我們登錄的部分，銀行那邊才能給它做虛擬帳號，因為已經經過我們檢查也確認了，所以不會有一萬多家，以前在商業司的時候，因為它不是特許行業，所以它就可以在它的營業項目說要做第三方支付，可是有些並沒有來做，所以我們這一陣子就把它建立制度，部長來了之後，也支持我們繼續把這樣的聯防做得更好。","至於打詐專法的部分，在數位經濟那一個專章，針對第三方支付也有相關的條文，所以這個是整體的配套，可以讓第三方支付剛剛委員所提到這些難點的部分，其實在管理上面是有強化的，也謝謝金管會來幫我們，謝謝。"],["李委員昆澤：好，我們還是要進一步地建議，研議建立相關的平臺、販售商家以及廣告人的責任規範，要去做研議，但是這個要非常地謹慎，「捏驚死，放驚飛」，就是說我們對於相關的平臺、販售商家及廣告人的責任規範必須要符合可以實施的基本規範，你太嚴格的話，對於相關的數位或是網路的生態，我想部長也非常清楚，這是必須更謹慎地來做研議跟處理的。","我們也要建立金流異常的示警機制，這個部分請部長說明一下。同一帳戶依照資本額或者是自行申報的使用金額來設置警戒線，或是出現大筆、多筆但大量超出警戒線的異常金流時，或者是系統應該警示提醒第三方支付業者及相關管理人員注意異常的情況，這個數位部有沒有具體的作為？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，這個建議都很好，我們已經做了一件事情，據我的瞭解，在我上任之前，我們有補助富邦銀行做鷹眼系統，就是在偵測這些金流帳號的異常，經過實施之後，效果很好。所以現在也跟金管會討論，有些類似這樣的系統可以擴散到其他銀行，希望由此去阻擋異常的金流。所以剛剛委員的建議，我們都會再加強跟深化，讓這樣的系統能夠廣布在所有的金融單位。"],["李委員昆澤：部長，現在這種數位或是網路的詐欺，其實新型態的發生是屢見不鮮，這個部分，我們看看美國商業改進局有示警，就是相關新型態的電子郵件詐騙，以AI模擬上司或同事的語氣，寄送偽造電子郵件或語音信息來指示匯款；或是進行語音側錄，我們常常接到詐欺電話，讓你講話，但他都不講話，就是要側錄你相關語音的狀況；或是智慧電視也可能遭到入侵，藉由影音平臺app竊取個資的問題。面對這些新興科技的詐騙，我們該如何強化國際的交流，建立聯訪機制？或是進一步針對這些新興的網路詐欺方式以及手法，我們有沒有進行研究或初步的處理規範？來，說明一下。"],["黃部長彥男：謝謝委員，尤其最近，第一個，我們當然跟國際多合作，我想國際合作是一定要的，因為我剛剛有說我們要跟國際交流這樣的情資和各樣的技術，我們自己本身也是在發展一些AI技術，比如說Deepfake的偵測，還有剛剛講的語音假冒的偵測，我們當然也希望自己本身有這樣的能力能夠做一些判讀，並給民眾使用。更重要的是，我們以後聽到電話或是看到語音時，因為有這樣的AI技術，其實都不能夠輕易地相信，那怎麼做呢？就有人建議，比如說要有通關密碼，有些東西你要確認講話的真的是本人，這個可能也要跟民眾做這樣的教育。基本上我想在這個時代，的確我們對很多東西都要帶著一點懷疑，要用各式各樣技術的方法、用我們所謂比較警覺的一些個人的方法，去判斷今天跟你講話的人是不是真人或者是AI。"],["李委員昆澤：部長，你剛才提到相關的識詐或是相關詐騙訊息的判讀，這些其實是比較輔助性的、對於民眾推廣的作法而已，政府、尤其是數位部，必須針對相關的防詐，不管是法令、政策以及具體的作為，這才是主要推動的目標，以上提醒。"],["黃部長彥男：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席（李委員昆澤）：謝謝。","現在請魯明哲委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":266,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-14","speakers":["李昆澤","廖先翔","林國成","林俊憲","林沛祥","魯明哲","徐富癸","陳素月","何欣純","蔡其昌","許智傑","邱若華","黃健豪","鍾佳濱","王鴻薇","葛如鈞","黃珊珊","洪孟楷","游顥","林月琴","李坤城","張啓楷","楊瓊瓔","陳冠廷","陳培瑜","羅智強"],"page_start":203,"meetingDate":["2024-05-27"],"gazette_id":"1135301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135301_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查 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\"start\": 682.478, \"end\": 682.658, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"醒\", \"start\": 682.658, \"end\": 682.939, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 682.939, \"end\": 682.959, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,770 --> 00:00:06,252\n謝謝主席請一下黃部長有請黃部長部長您好當然林佩祥委員剛才已經提到重點打詐是數位部的一個工作之一當然啦對於推動\n\n2\n00:00:26,683 --> 00:00:42,339\n護行的這樣的一個數位政府以及推動數位產業經濟甚至是資安這都是數位部的一個重要的工作項目當然目前大家都集中在於相關的詐騙的這樣的一個議題這也是對於詐騙在數位領域\n\n3\n00:00:48,024 --> 00:01:13,115\n的這樣一個案件竹簾上升成為國家重要的一體因為他造成個人或是企業的重大損失之外對於社會的安全跟穩定其實也造成很大的衝擊所以我想很多的委員大家都重視相關的對於打詐尤其是網路詐欺的這個部分那其實我們看到2023年的詐騙建樹的一個統計\n\n4\n00:01:29,139 --> 00:01:56,652\n嚴重的狀況大家對於數位部的要求跟期待就會越來越高那相關的前五大的詐騙類型包括投資詐欺解除分歧的這種付款的詐欺ATM或者是這種假網路的拍賣購物或者是一般購物的詐欺就是偽稱買賣這個部分甚至假愛情交友\n\n5\n00:01:57,372 --> 00:02:10,077\n都建樹的也都非常的多那我們現在社會大眾對於數位部新的部長我們期待你對於打造有更具體的策略以及你預期的目標給你時間簡單說明一下\n\n6\n00:02:13,999 --> 00:02:38,901\n謝謝委員我一直強調就是說我們在這裡面第一個當然是法的通過電子簽商法跟這個所謂打造裝法大概應該短期之內通過這給我們一些工具對這個一些我們尊管的業者像網路平台廣告商、電商、第三方制服還有遊戲商能夠做進一步的監管跟處理也可以要求他們配合我們打造的政府的打造的一些行動跟工作\n\n7\n00:02:39,361 --> 00:03:01,330\n那當然在我剛一直強調說我們希望有個很快的一個打造一個服務我能夠提供這個打造通報跟查詢那民眾可以很快的去查詢我現在收到訊息是不是可能詐騙那用這個方式我們很快把這個東西再分流然後讓這個各個部位能夠很快看到最新的詐騙的方的一些訊息能夠就即時的處理\n\n8\n00:03:02,230 --> 00:03:25,441\n那當然我們會推動像這個所謂的短碼跟簡碼的這樣的短碼跟短網子還有這個所謂的銀碼的系統來讓我們能夠瞭解什麼樣的訊息是可信任就建立可信任訊息的傳遞的方式而讓我們民眾可信任的這個訊息的這些相關的建構你預計在什麼時候之內可以完成初步的建構呢\n\n9\n00:03:26,201 --> 00:03:54,658\n對,111這樣的一個建構已經推動而且我們目前得到的效果還蠻好的就是政府的這個端碼那另外就是說關於這個我也跟其他部會談過像這個以後的像金管會的銀行也會有端碼然後我們的這個其他部會如果是一個可信任的商業的公司都應該要申請端碼這個應該是在短期之內短期是多短期這個目前是期望在年底之前大概在年底之前對\n\n10\n00:03:55,558 --> 00:04:14,803\n希望趕快的推動當然防患這種數位的詐騙當然要加強第三方的這種支付的管理剛才提到中央政府有反詐釋法洗錢防治法科技偵查及保障法通訊保障及監察法還有\n\n11\n00:04:15,723 --> 00:04:42,465\n打擊犯罪的危害防制條例那我們看到建清檢改就是由很多的檢察官所組成的這個團體他們有多次的研討會也具體的建議要加強第三方支付管理業的這些管理那當然第三方的支付管理其實有三大難處第一個綁定信用卡手機不用進行本人的驗證第二\n\n12\n00:04:43,946 --> 00:04:46,147\n二、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於數位發展部主管．\n\n13\n00:05:01,431 --> 00:05:21,046\n我們如何去做有效的這些規範如何要求業者建立數據庫或者是要記錄金流跟交易的這些記錄以及KYC就是身份確認要求平台來做商業的確認要建立聯訪的平台來做處理跟規範\n\n14\n00:05:22,647 --> 00:05:47,321\n數位部有沒有具體的做法跟目前的進度來說明一下?報告委員第一個就是說第三方剛剛這邊有一個數目就是我們有一萬多個第三方支付的業者那我們要求他們現在做能量登錄那能量登錄結果現在只有目前只有53家通過那便於我們管理那在這53家裡面我們也要求他對這個申請的人要進行所謂的使名字KYC的驗證\n\n15\n00:05:48,302 --> 00:05:49,323\n數位發展部部長黃彥男列席\n\n16\n00:06:07,156 --> 00:06:30,652\n謝謝委員給我們補充的機會就是剛剛部長提到的就是現在只有53家那通過我們登錄的部分呢那銀行那邊才能給他做虛擬賬號那虛擬賬號因為這個經過我們檢查也確認了所以不會有一萬多家的因為那個以前在商業司的時候因為他不是特許行業所以他就可以在他的營業項目說要做第三方支付可是有些並沒有來做\n\n17\n00:06:31,733 --> 00:06:48,571\n那所以我們就這一陣子將把它建立制度那部長來之後也來支持我們繼續把這樣的聯訪做得更好那打詐專法的部分在我們數位經濟那一個專章針對第三項支付也有相關的條文那所以這個是整體的配套\n\n18\n00:06:48,891 --> 00:07:03,793\n那可以讓第三方支付剛剛的委員所提到這些難點的部分那其實在管理上面是有強化那也謝謝金管會來幫我們謝謝好我們還是要進一步的建立就是說嚴厲建立相關的平台\n\n19\n00:07:04,394 --> 00:07:07,855\n午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午\n\n20\n00:07:29,502 --> 00:07:58,336\n的數位或是網路的這樣的一個生態我想部長也非常清楚這個是一個必須更謹慎的去來做研議跟處理那我們也要建立金流異常的這種市井的機制這個部分部長說明一下我們同意賬戶依照資本額或者是自行申報的使用金額來設置警戒線或是出現大筆多筆但是大量超出警戒線的異常金流時\n\n21\n00:07:59,156 --> 00:08:23,701\n或者是系統應該警示提醒第三方支付業者及相關管理人員注意異常的情況這個數位部有沒有具體的一個作為?包括個委員這個建議都很好那我們已經做一件事情就是我的了解在我上任之前我們有補助向富邦銀行做鷹眼系統那就是在偵測這些數位金流的帳號的異常\n\n22\n00:08:24,801 --> 00:08:46,647\n那經過實施之後效果很好所以現在就是說也跟金管會討論就是說有些類似這樣的系統可以擴散到其他銀行希望從金流去阻擋這個異常的金流所以剛剛委員這邊的建議我們都會再加強跟深化去讓這樣的系統能夠廣佈在所有的金融單位\n\n23\n00:08:47,887 --> 00:09:02,153\n部長現在這種數位或是網路的詐欺他的新型態的這樣的一個發聲其實是屢見不鮮那這個部分我們看看這個美國商業\n\n24\n00:09:04,008 --> 00:09:19,729\n商業改進局他有示警就是說相關的新型態的電子郵件的詐騙以AI模擬上司或同事的語氣寄送偽造電子郵件或者是語音信息來指示匯款或是進行語音測錄\n\n25\n00:09:52,151 --> 00:10:20,920\n以及手法我們有沒有進行研究或初步的這樣的一個處理的規範來說明一下謝謝委員那個尤其最近在第一個我們當然跟國際的多合作啦我想國際這個合作一定要因為我們剛剛講說我們要跟國際交流這樣的情資各樣的技術那我們自己本身也有也是在發展一些AI技術比如說像DFAQ的偵測我們還有就是剛剛講的語音的這種假冒的偵測我們當然也希望自己本身有這樣能力能夠做一些判讀那給民眾使用\n\n26\n00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:48,895\n那更重要是現在就是說我們以後聽到電話或是看到語音因為有這種這樣的AI技術其實都不能夠輕易的相信那怎麼做呢就會有人建議比如說要通關密碼有些東西你要確認講話的真的是本人那這個可能也要跟民眾做這樣的教育就是基本上我想在這個時代的確我們對很多東西都要帶著一點懷疑那用各式各樣用技術方法用我們指揮的這個\n\n27\n00:10:50,035 --> 00:10:50,155\n議員：李昆澤\n\n28\n00:11:13,402 --> 00:11:22,959\n必須針對相關的防詐不管是法令、政策以及具體的作為這才是主要的一個推動的目標以上一個提醒謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2770\t6252\t謝謝主席請一下黃部長有請黃部長部長您好當然林佩祥委員剛才已經提到重點打詐是數位部的一個工作之一當然啦對於推動\n26683\t42339\t護行的這樣的一個數位政府以及推動數位產業經濟甚至是資安這都是數位部的一個重要的工作項目當然目前大家都集中在於相關的詐騙的這樣的一個議題這也是對於詐騙在數位領域\n48024\t73115\t的這樣一個案件竹簾上升成為國家重要的一體因為他造成個人或是企業的重大損失之外對於社會的安全跟穩定其實也造成很大的衝擊所以我想很多的委員大家都重視相關的對於打詐尤其是網路詐欺的這個部分那其實我們看到2023年的詐騙建樹的一個統計\n76476\t88217\t﹚\n89139\t116652\t嚴重的狀況大家對於數位部的要求跟期待就會越來越高那相關的前五大的詐騙類型包括投資詐欺解除分歧的這種付款的詐欺ATM或者是這種假網路的拍賣購物或者是一般購物的詐欺就是偽稱買賣這個部分甚至假愛情交友\n117372\t130077\t都建樹的也都非常的多那我們現在社會大眾對於數位部新的部長我們期待你對於打造有更具體的策略以及你預期的目標給你時間簡單說明一下\n133999\t158901\t謝謝委員我一直強調就是說我們在這裡面第一個當然是法的通過電子簽商法跟這個所謂打造裝法大概應該短期之內通過這給我們一些工具對這個一些我們尊管的業者像網路平台廣告商、電商、第三方制服還有遊戲商能夠做進一步的監管跟處理也可以要求他們配合我們打造的政府的打造的一些行動跟工作\n159361\t181330\t那當然在我剛一直強調說我們希望有個很快的一個打造一個服務我能夠提供這個打造通報跟查詢那民眾可以很快的去查詢我現在收到訊息是不是可能詐騙那用這個方式我們很快把這個東西再分流然後讓這個各個部位能夠很快看到最新的詐騙的方的一些訊息能夠就即時的處理\n182230\t205441\t那當然我們會推動像這個所謂的短碼跟簡碼的這樣的短碼跟短網子還有這個所謂的銀碼的系統來讓我們能夠瞭解什麼樣的訊息是可信任就建立可信任訊息的傳遞的方式而讓我們民眾可信任的這個訊息的這些相關的建構你預計在什麼時候之內可以完成初步的建構呢\n206201\t234658\t對,111這樣的一個建構已經推動而且我們目前得到的效果還蠻好的就是政府的這個端碼那另外就是說關於這個我也跟其他部會談過像這個以後的像金管會的銀行也會有端碼然後我們的這個其他部會如果是一個可信任的商業的公司都應該要申請端碼這個應該是在短期之內短期是多短期這個目前是期望在年底之前大概在年底之前對\n235558\t254803\t希望趕快的推動當然防患這種數位的詐騙當然要加強第三方的這種支付的管理剛才提到中央政府有反詐釋法洗錢防治法科技偵查及保障法通訊保障及監察法還有\n255723\t282465\t打擊犯罪的危害防制條例那我們看到建清檢改就是由很多的檢察官所組成的這個團體他們有多次的研討會也具體的建議要加強第三方支付管理業的這些管理那當然第三方的支付管理其實有三大難處第一個綁定信用卡手機不用進行本人的驗證第二\n283946\t286147\t二、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於數位發展部主管．\n301431\t321046\t我們如何去做有效的這些規範如何要求業者建立數據庫或者是要記錄金流跟交易的這些記錄以及KYC就是身份確認要求平台來做商業的確認要建立聯訪的平台來做處理跟規範\n322647\t347321\t數位部有沒有具體的做法跟目前的進度來說明一下?報告委員第一個就是說第三方剛剛這邊有一個數目就是我們有一萬多個第三方支付的業者那我們要求他們現在做能量登錄那能量登錄結果現在只有目前只有53家通過那便於我們管理那在這53家裡面我們也要求他對這個申請的人要進行所謂的使名字KYC的驗證\n348302\t349323\t數位發展部部長黃彥男列席\n367156\t390652\t謝謝委員給我們補充的機會就是剛剛部長提到的就是現在只有53家那通過我們登錄的部分呢那銀行那邊才能給他做虛擬賬號那虛擬賬號因為這個經過我們檢查也確認了所以不會有一萬多家的因為那個以前在商業司的時候因為他不是特許行業所以他就可以在他的營業項目說要做第三方支付可是有些並沒有來做\n391733\t408571\t那所以我們就這一陣子將把它建立制度那部長來之後也來支持我們繼續把這樣的聯訪做得更好那打詐專法的部分在我們數位經濟那一個專章針對第三項支付也有相關的條文那所以這個是整體的配套\n408891\t423793\t那可以讓第三方支付剛剛的委員所提到這些難點的部分那其實在管理上面是有強化那也謝謝金管會來幫我們謝謝好我們還是要進一步的建立就是說嚴厲建立相關的平台\n424394\t427855\t午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午\n449502\t478336\t的數位或是網路的這樣的一個生態我想部長也非常清楚這個是一個必須更謹慎的去來做研議跟處理那我們也要建立金流異常的這種市井的機制這個部分部長說明一下我們同意賬戶依照資本額或者是自行申報的使用金額來設置警戒線或是出現大筆多筆但是大量超出警戒線的異常金流時\n479156\t503701\t或者是系統應該警示提醒第三方支付業者及相關管理人員注意異常的情況這個數位部有沒有具體的一個作為?包括個委員這個建議都很好那我們已經做一件事情就是我的了解在我上任之前我們有補助向富邦銀行做鷹眼系統那就是在偵測這些數位金流的帳號的異常\n504801\t526647\t那經過實施之後效果很好所以現在就是說也跟金管會討論就是說有些類似這樣的系統可以擴散到其他銀行希望從金流去阻擋這個異常的金流所以剛剛委員這邊的建議我們都會再加強跟深化去讓這樣的系統能夠廣佈在所有的金融單位\n527887\t542153\t部長現在這種數位或是網路的詐欺他的新型態的這樣的一個發聲其實是屢見不鮮那這個部分我們看看這個美國商業\n544008\t559729\t商業改進局他有示警就是說相關的新型態的電子郵件的詐騙以AI模擬上司或同事的語氣寄送偽造電子郵件或者是語音信息來指示匯款或是進行語音測錄\n561271\t591271\t﹏﹏\n592151\t620920\t以及手法我們有沒有進行研究或初步的這樣的一個處理的規範來說明一下謝謝委員那個尤其最近在第一個我們當然跟國際的多合作啦我想國際這個合作一定要因為我們剛剛講說我們要跟國際交流這樣的情資各樣的技術那我們自己本身也有也是在發展一些AI技術比如說像DFAQ的偵測我們還有就是剛剛講的語音的這種假冒的偵測我們當然也希望自己本身有這樣能力能夠做一些判讀那給民眾使用\n621320\t648895\t那更重要是現在就是說我們以後聽到電話或是看到語音因為有這種這樣的AI技術其實都不能夠輕易的相信那怎麼做呢就會有人建議比如說要通關密碼有些東西你要確認講話的真的是本人那這個可能也要跟民眾做這樣的教育就是基本上我想在這個時代的確我們對很多東西都要帶著一點懷疑那用各式各樣用技術方法用我們指揮的這個\n650035\t650155\t議員：李昆澤\n673402\t682959\t必須針對相關的防詐不管是法令、政策以及具體的作為這才是主要的一個推動的目標以上一個提醒謝謝委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席請一下黃部長有請黃部長部長您好當然林佩祥委員剛才已經提到重點打詐是數位部的一個工作之一當然啦對於推動\n護行的這樣的一個數位政府以及推動數位產業經濟甚至是資安這都是數位部的一個重要的工作項目當然目前大家都集中在於相關的詐騙的這樣的一個議題這也是對於詐騙在數位領域\n的這樣一個案件竹簾上升成為國家重要的一體因為他造成個人或是企業的重大損失之外對於社會的安全跟穩定其實也造成很大的衝擊所以我想很多的委員大家都重視相關的對於打詐尤其是網路詐欺的這個部分那其實我們看到2023年的詐騙建樹的一個統計\n﹚\n嚴重的狀況大家對於數位部的要求跟期待就會越來越高那相關的前五大的詐騙類型包括投資詐欺解除分歧的這種付款的詐欺ATM或者是這種假網路的拍賣購物或者是一般購物的詐欺就是偽稱買賣這個部分甚至假愛情交友\n都建樹的也都非常的多那我們現在社會大眾對於數位部新的部長我們期待你對於打造有更具體的策略以及你預期的目標給你時間簡單說明一下\n謝謝委員我一直強調就是說我們在這裡面第一個當然是法的通過電子簽商法跟這個所謂打造裝法大概應該短期之內通過這給我們一些工具對這個一些我們尊管的業者像網路平台廣告商、電商、第三方制服還有遊戲商能夠做進一步的監管跟處理也可以要求他們配合我們打造的政府的打造的一些行動跟工作\n那當然在我剛一直強調說我們希望有個很快的一個打造一個服務我能夠提供這個打造通報跟查詢那民眾可以很快的去查詢我現在收到訊息是不是可能詐騙那用這個方式我們很快把這個東西再分流然後讓這個各個部位能夠很快看到最新的詐騙的方的一些訊息能夠就即時的處理\n那當然我們會推動像這個所謂的短碼跟簡碼的這樣的短碼跟短網子還有這個所謂的銀碼的系統來讓我們能夠瞭解什麼樣的訊息是可信任就建立可信任訊息的傳遞的方式而讓我們民眾可信任的這個訊息的這些相關的建構你預計在什麼時候之內可以完成初步的建構呢\n對,111這樣的一個建構已經推動而且我們目前得到的效果還蠻好的就是政府的這個端碼那另外就是說關於這個我也跟其他部會談過像這個以後的像金管會的銀行也會有端碼然後我們的這個其他部會如果是一個可信任的商業的公司都應該要申請端碼這個應該是在短期之內短期是多短期這個目前是期望在年底之前大概在年底之前對\n希望趕快的推動當然防患這種數位的詐騙當然要加強第三方的這種支付的管理剛才提到中央政府有反詐釋法洗錢防治法科技偵查及保障法通訊保障及監察法還有\n打擊犯罪的危害防制條例那我們看到建清檢改就是由很多的檢察官所組成的這個團體他們有多次的研討會也具體的建議要加強第三方支付管理業的這些管理那當然第三方的支付管理其實有三大難處第一個綁定信用卡手機不用進行本人的驗證第二\n二、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於數位發展部主管．\n我們如何去做有效的這些規範如何要求業者建立數據庫或者是要記錄金流跟交易的這些記錄以及KYC就是身份確認要求平台來做商業的確認要建立聯訪的平台來做處理跟規範\n數位部有沒有具體的做法跟目前的進度來說明一下?報告委員第一個就是說第三方剛剛這邊有一個數目就是我們有一萬多個第三方支付的業者那我們要求他們現在做能量登錄那能量登錄結果現在只有目前只有53家通過那便於我們管理那在這53家裡面我們也要求他對這個申請的人要進行所謂的使名字KYC的驗證\n數位發展部部長黃彥男列席\n謝謝委員給我們補充的機會就是剛剛部長提到的就是現在只有53家那通過我們登錄的部分呢那銀行那邊才能給他做虛擬賬號那虛擬賬號因為這個經過我們檢查也確認了所以不會有一萬多家的因為那個以前在商業司的時候因為他不是特許行業所以他就可以在他的營業項目說要做第三方支付可是有些並沒有來做\n那所以我們就這一陣子將把它建立制度那部長來之後也來支持我們繼續把這樣的聯訪做得更好那打詐專法的部分在我們數位經濟那一個專章針對第三項支付也有相關的條文那所以這個是整體的配套\n那可以讓第三方支付剛剛的委員所提到這些難點的部分那其實在管理上面是有強化那也謝謝金管會來幫我們謝謝好我們還是要進一步的建立就是說嚴厲建立相關的平台\n午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午\n的數位或是網路的這樣的一個生態我想部長也非常清楚這個是一個必須更謹慎的去來做研議跟處理那我們也要建立金流異常的這種市井的機制這個部分部長說明一下我們同意賬戶依照資本額或者是自行申報的使用金額來設置警戒線或是出現大筆多筆但是大量超出警戒線的異常金流時\n或者是系統應該警示提醒第三方支付業者及相關管理人員注意異常的情況這個數位部有沒有具體的一個作為?包括個委員這個建議都很好那我們已經做一件事情就是我的了解在我上任之前我們有補助向富邦銀行做鷹眼系統那就是在偵測這些數位金流的帳號的異常\n那經過實施之後效果很好所以現在就是說也跟金管會討論就是說有些類似這樣的系統可以擴散到其他銀行希望從金流去阻擋這個異常的金流所以剛剛委員這邊的建議我們都會再加強跟深化去讓這樣的系統能夠廣佈在所有的金融單位\n部長現在這種數位或是網路的詐欺他的新型態的這樣的一個發聲其實是屢見不鮮那這個部分我們看看這個美國商業\n商業改進局他有示警就是說相關的新型態的電子郵件的詐騙以AI模擬上司或同事的語氣寄送偽造電子郵件或者是語音信息來指示匯款或是進行語音測錄\n﹏﹏\n以及手法我們有沒有進行研究或初步的這樣的一個處理的規範來說明一下謝謝委員那個尤其最近在第一個我們當然跟國際的多合作啦我想國際這個合作一定要因為我們剛剛講說我們要跟國際交流這樣的情資各樣的技術那我們自己本身也有也是在發展一些AI技術比如說像DFAQ的偵測我們還有就是剛剛講的語音的這種假冒的偵測我們當然也希望自己本身有這樣能力能夠做一些判讀那給民眾使用\n那更重要是現在就是說我們以後聽到電話或是看到語音因為有這種這樣的AI技術其實都不能夠輕易的相信那怎麼做呢就會有人建議比如說要通關密碼有些東西你要確認講話的真的是本人那這個可能也要跟民眾做這樣的教育就是基本上我想在這個時代的確我們對很多東西都要帶著一點懷疑那用各式各樣用技術方法用我們指揮的這個\n議員：李昆澤\n必須針對相關的防詐不管是法令、政策以及具體的作為這才是主要的一個推動的目標以上一個提醒謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.770 --> 00:06.252\n謝謝主席請一下黃部長有請黃部長部長您好當然林佩祥委員剛才已經提到重點打詐是數位部的一個工作之一當然啦對於推動\n\n00:26.683 --> 00:42.339\n護行的這樣的一個數位政府以及推動數位產業經濟甚至是資安這都是數位部的一個重要的工作項目當然目前大家都集中在於相關的詐騙的這樣的一個議題這也是對於詐騙在數位領域\n\n00:48.024 --> 01:13.115\n的這樣一個案件竹簾上升成為國家重要的一體因為他造成個人或是企業的重大損失之外對於社會的安全跟穩定其實也造成很大的衝擊所以我想很多的委員大家都重視相關的對於打詐尤其是網路詐欺的這個部分那其實我們看到2023年的詐騙建樹的一個統計\n\n01:29.139 --> 01:56.652\n嚴重的狀況大家對於數位部的要求跟期待就會越來越高那相關的前五大的詐騙類型包括投資詐欺解除分歧的這種付款的詐欺ATM或者是這種假網路的拍賣購物或者是一般購物的詐欺就是偽稱買賣這個部分甚至假愛情交友\n\n01:57.372 --> 02:10.077\n都建樹的也都非常的多那我們現在社會大眾對於數位部新的部長我們期待你對於打造有更具體的策略以及你預期的目標給你時間簡單說明一下\n\n02:13.999 --> 02:38.901\n謝謝委員我一直強調就是說我們在這裡面第一個當然是法的通過電子簽商法跟這個所謂打造裝法大概應該短期之內通過這給我們一些工具對這個一些我們尊管的業者像網路平台廣告商、電商、第三方制服還有遊戲商能夠做進一步的監管跟處理也可以要求他們配合我們打造的政府的打造的一些行動跟工作\n\n02:39.361 --> 03:01.330\n那當然在我剛一直強調說我們希望有個很快的一個打造一個服務我能夠提供這個打造通報跟查詢那民眾可以很快的去查詢我現在收到訊息是不是可能詐騙那用這個方式我們很快把這個東西再分流然後讓這個各個部位能夠很快看到最新的詐騙的方的一些訊息能夠就即時的處理\n\n03:02.230 --> 03:25.441\n那當然我們會推動像這個所謂的短碼跟簡碼的這樣的短碼跟短網子還有這個所謂的銀碼的系統來讓我們能夠瞭解什麼樣的訊息是可信任就建立可信任訊息的傳遞的方式而讓我們民眾可信任的這個訊息的這些相關的建構你預計在什麼時候之內可以完成初步的建構呢\n\n03:26.201 --> 03:54.658\n對,111這樣的一個建構已經推動而且我們目前得到的效果還蠻好的就是政府的這個端碼那另外就是說關於這個我也跟其他部會談過像這個以後的像金管會的銀行也會有端碼然後我們的這個其他部會如果是一個可信任的商業的公司都應該要申請端碼這個應該是在短期之內短期是多短期這個目前是期望在年底之前大概在年底之前對\n\n03:55.558 --> 04:14.803\n希望趕快的推動當然防患這種數位的詐騙當然要加強第三方的這種支付的管理剛才提到中央政府有反詐釋法洗錢防治法科技偵查及保障法通訊保障及監察法還有\n\n04:15.723 --> 04:42.465\n打擊犯罪的危害防制條例那我們看到建清檢改就是由很多的檢察官所組成的這個團體他們有多次的研討會也具體的建議要加強第三方支付管理業的這些管理那當然第三方的支付管理其實有三大難處第一個綁定信用卡手機不用進行本人的驗證第二\n\n04:43.946 --> 04:46.147\n二、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於數位發展部主管．\n\n05:01.431 --> 05:21.046\n我們如何去做有效的這些規範如何要求業者建立數據庫或者是要記錄金流跟交易的這些記錄以及KYC就是身份確認要求平台來做商業的確認要建立聯訪的平台來做處理跟規範\n\n05:22.647 --> 05:47.321\n數位部有沒有具體的做法跟目前的進度來說明一下?報告委員第一個就是說第三方剛剛這邊有一個數目就是我們有一萬多個第三方支付的業者那我們要求他們現在做能量登錄那能量登錄結果現在只有目前只有53家通過那便於我們管理那在這53家裡面我們也要求他對這個申請的人要進行所謂的使名字KYC的驗證\n\n05:48.302 --> 05:49.323\n數位發展部部長黃彥男列席\n\n06:07.156 --> 06:30.652\n謝謝委員給我們補充的機會就是剛剛部長提到的就是現在只有53家那通過我們登錄的部分呢那銀行那邊才能給他做虛擬賬號那虛擬賬號因為這個經過我們檢查也確認了所以不會有一萬多家的因為那個以前在商業司的時候因為他不是特許行業所以他就可以在他的營業項目說要做第三方支付可是有些並沒有來做\n\n06:31.733 --> 06:48.571\n那所以我們就這一陣子將把它建立制度那部長來之後也來支持我們繼續把這樣的聯訪做得更好那打詐專法的部分在我們數位經濟那一個專章針對第三項支付也有相關的條文那所以這個是整體的配套\n\n06:48.891 --> 07:03.793\n那可以讓第三方支付剛剛的委員所提到這些難點的部分那其實在管理上面是有強化那也謝謝金管會來幫我們謝謝好我們還是要進一步的建立就是說嚴厲建立相關的平台\n\n07:04.394 --> 07:07.855\n午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午\n\n07:29.502 --> 07:58.336\n的數位或是網路的這樣的一個生態我想部長也非常清楚這個是一個必須更謹慎的去來做研議跟處理那我們也要建立金流異常的這種市井的機制這個部分部長說明一下我們同意賬戶依照資本額或者是自行申報的使用金額來設置警戒線或是出現大筆多筆但是大量超出警戒線的異常金流時\n\n07:59.156 --> 08:23.701\n或者是系統應該警示提醒第三方支付業者及相關管理人員注意異常的情況這個數位部有沒有具體的一個作為?包括個委員這個建議都很好那我們已經做一件事情就是我的了解在我上任之前我們有補助向富邦銀行做鷹眼系統那就是在偵測這些數位金流的帳號的異常\n\n08:24.801 --> 08:46.647\n那經過實施之後效果很好所以現在就是說也跟金管會討論就是說有些類似這樣的系統可以擴散到其他銀行希望從金流去阻擋這個異常的金流所以剛剛委員這邊的建議我們都會再加強跟深化去讓這樣的系統能夠廣佈在所有的金融單位\n\n08:47.887 --> 09:02.153\n部長現在這種數位或是網路的詐欺他的新型態的這樣的一個發聲其實是屢見不鮮那這個部分我們看看這個美國商業\n\n09:04.008 --> 09:19.729\n商業改進局他有示警就是說相關的新型態的電子郵件的詐騙以AI模擬上司或同事的語氣寄送偽造電子郵件或者是語音信息來指示匯款或是進行語音測錄\n\n09:52.151 --> 10:20.920\n以及手法我們有沒有進行研究或初步的這樣的一個處理的規範來說明一下謝謝委員那個尤其最近在第一個我們當然跟國際的多合作啦我想國際這個合作一定要因為我們剛剛講說我們要跟國際交流這樣的情資各樣的技術那我們自己本身也有也是在發展一些AI技術比如說像DFAQ的偵測我們還有就是剛剛講的語音的這種假冒的偵測我們當然也希望自己本身有這樣能力能夠做一些判讀那給民眾使用\n\n10:21.320 --> 10:48.895\n那更重要是現在就是說我們以後聽到電話或是看到語音因為有這種這樣的AI技術其實都不能夠輕易的相信那怎麼做呢就會有人建議比如說要通關密碼有些東西你要確認講話的真的是本人那這個可能也要跟民眾做這樣的教育就是基本上我想在這個時代的確我們對很多東西都要帶著一點懷疑那用各式各樣用技術方法用我們指揮的這個\n\n10:50.035 --> 10:50.155\n議員：李昆澤\n\n11:13.402 --> 11:22.959\n必須針對相關的防詐不管是法令、政策以及具體的作為這才是主要的一個推動的目標以上一個提醒謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.77,"end":6.252,"text":"謝謝主席請一下黃部長有請黃部長部長您好當然林佩祥委員剛才已經提到重點打詐是數位部的一個工作之一當然啦對於推動"},{"start":26.683,"end":42.339,"text":"護行的這樣的一個數位政府以及推動數位產業經濟甚至是資安這都是數位部的一個重要的工作項目當然目前大家都集中在於相關的詐騙的這樣的一個議題這也是對於詐騙在數位領域"},{"start":48.024,"end":73.115,"text":"的這樣一個案件竹簾上升成為國家重要的一體因為他造成個人或是企業的重大損失之外對於社會的安全跟穩定其實也造成很大的衝擊所以我想很多的委員大家都重視相關的對於打詐尤其是網路詐欺的這個部分那其實我們看到2023年的詐騙建樹的一個統計"},{"start":76.476,"end":88.217,"text":"﹚"},{"start":89.139,"end":116.652,"text":"嚴重的狀況大家對於數位部的要求跟期待就會越來越高那相關的前五大的詐騙類型包括投資詐欺解除分歧的這種付款的詐欺ATM或者是這種假網路的拍賣購物或者是一般購物的詐欺就是偽稱買賣這個部分甚至假愛情交友"},{"start":117.372,"end":130.077,"text":"都建樹的也都非常的多那我們現在社會大眾對於數位部新的部長我們期待你對於打造有更具體的策略以及你預期的目標給你時間簡單說明一下"},{"start":133.999,"end":158.901,"text":"謝謝委員我一直強調就是說我們在這裡面第一個當然是法的通過電子簽商法跟這個所謂打造裝法大概應該短期之內通過這給我們一些工具對這個一些我們尊管的業者像網路平台廣告商、電商、第三方制服還有遊戲商能夠做進一步的監管跟處理也可以要求他們配合我們打造的政府的打造的一些行動跟工作"},{"start":159.361,"end":181.33,"text":"那當然在我剛一直強調說我們希望有個很快的一個打造一個服務我能夠提供這個打造通報跟查詢那民眾可以很快的去查詢我現在收到訊息是不是可能詐騙那用這個方式我們很快把這個東西再分流然後讓這個各個部位能夠很快看到最新的詐騙的方的一些訊息能夠就即時的處理"},{"start":182.23,"end":205.441,"text":"那當然我們會推動像這個所謂的短碼跟簡碼的這樣的短碼跟短網子還有這個所謂的銀碼的系統來讓我們能夠瞭解什麼樣的訊息是可信任就建立可信任訊息的傳遞的方式而讓我們民眾可信任的這個訊息的這些相關的建構你預計在什麼時候之內可以完成初步的建構呢"},{"start":206.201,"end":234.658,"text":"對,111這樣的一個建構已經推動而且我們目前得到的效果還蠻好的就是政府的這個端碼那另外就是說關於這個我也跟其他部會談過像這個以後的像金管會的銀行也會有端碼然後我們的這個其他部會如果是一個可信任的商業的公司都應該要申請端碼這個應該是在短期之內短期是多短期這個目前是期望在年底之前大概在年底之前對"},{"start":235.558,"end":254.803,"text":"希望趕快的推動當然防患這種數位的詐騙當然要加強第三方的這種支付的管理剛才提到中央政府有反詐釋法洗錢防治法科技偵查及保障法通訊保障及監察法還有"},{"start":255.723,"end":282.465,"text":"打擊犯罪的危害防制條例那我們看到建清檢改就是由很多的檢察官所組成的這個團體他們有多次的研討會也具體的建議要加強第三方支付管理業的這些管理那當然第三方的支付管理其實有三大難處第一個綁定信用卡手機不用進行本人的驗證第二"},{"start":283.946,"end":286.147,"text":"二、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於數位發展部主管．"},{"start":301.431,"end":321.046,"text":"我們如何去做有效的這些規範如何要求業者建立數據庫或者是要記錄金流跟交易的這些記錄以及KYC就是身份確認要求平台來做商業的確認要建立聯訪的平台來做處理跟規範"},{"start":322.647,"end":347.321,"text":"數位部有沒有具體的做法跟目前的進度來說明一下?報告委員第一個就是說第三方剛剛這邊有一個數目就是我們有一萬多個第三方支付的業者那我們要求他們現在做能量登錄那能量登錄結果現在只有目前只有53家通過那便於我們管理那在這53家裡面我們也要求他對這個申請的人要進行所謂的使名字KYC的驗證"},{"start":348.302,"end":349.323,"text":"數位發展部部長黃彥男列席"},{"start":367.156,"end":390.652,"text":"謝謝委員給我們補充的機會就是剛剛部長提到的就是現在只有53家那通過我們登錄的部分呢那銀行那邊才能給他做虛擬賬號那虛擬賬號因為這個經過我們檢查也確認了所以不會有一萬多家的因為那個以前在商業司的時候因為他不是特許行業所以他就可以在他的營業項目說要做第三方支付可是有些並沒有來做"},{"start":391.733,"end":408.571,"text":"那所以我們就這一陣子將把它建立制度那部長來之後也來支持我們繼續把這樣的聯訪做得更好那打詐專法的部分在我們數位經濟那一個專章針對第三項支付也有相關的條文那所以這個是整體的配套"},{"start":408.891,"end":423.793,"text":"那可以讓第三方支付剛剛的委員所提到這些難點的部分那其實在管理上面是有強化那也謝謝金管會來幫我們謝謝好我們還是要進一步的建立就是說嚴厲建立相關的平台"},{"start":424.394,"end":427.855,"text":"午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午午"},{"start":449.502,"end":478.336,"text":"的數位或是網路的這樣的一個生態我想部長也非常清楚這個是一個必須更謹慎的去來做研議跟處理那我們也要建立金流異常的這種市井的機制這個部分部長說明一下我們同意賬戶依照資本額或者是自行申報的使用金額來設置警戒線或是出現大筆多筆但是大量超出警戒線的異常金流時"},{"start":479.156,"end":503.701,"text":"或者是系統應該警示提醒第三方支付業者及相關管理人員注意異常的情況這個數位部有沒有具體的一個作為?包括個委員這個建議都很好那我們已經做一件事情就是我的了解在我上任之前我們有補助向富邦銀行做鷹眼系統那就是在偵測這些數位金流的帳號的異常"},{"start":504.801,"end":526.647,"text":"那經過實施之後效果很好所以現在就是說也跟金管會討論就是說有些類似這樣的系統可以擴散到其他銀行希望從金流去阻擋這個異常的金流所以剛剛委員這邊的建議我們都會再加強跟深化去讓這樣的系統能夠廣佈在所有的金融單位"},{"start":527.887,"end":542.153,"text":"部長現在這種數位或是網路的詐欺他的新型態的這樣的一個發聲其實是屢見不鮮那這個部分我們看看這個美國商業"},{"start":544.008,"end":559.729,"text":"商業改進局他有示警就是說相關的新型態的電子郵件的詐騙以AI模擬上司或同事的語氣寄送偽造電子郵件或者是語音信息來指示匯款或是進行語音測錄"},{"start":561.271,"end":591.271,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":592.151,"end":620.92,"text":"以及手法我們有沒有進行研究或初步的這樣的一個處理的規範來說明一下謝謝委員那個尤其最近在第一個我們當然跟國際的多合作啦我想國際這個合作一定要因為我們剛剛講說我們要跟國際交流這樣的情資各樣的技術那我們自己本身也有也是在發展一些AI技術比如說像DFAQ的偵測我們還有就是剛剛講的語音的這種假冒的偵測我們當然也希望自己本身有這樣能力能夠做一些判讀那給民眾使用"},{"start":621.32,"end":648.895,"text":"那更重要是現在就是說我們以後聽到電話或是看到語音因為有這種這樣的AI技術其實都不能夠輕易的相信那怎麼做呢就會有人建議比如說要通關密碼有些東西你要確認講話的真的是本人那這個可能也要跟民眾做這樣的教育就是基本上我想在這個時代的確我們對很多東西都要帶著一點懷疑那用各式各樣用技術方法用我們指揮的這個"},{"start":650.035,"end":650.155,"text":"議員：李昆澤"},{"start":673.402,"end":682.959,"text":"必須針對相關的防詐不管是法令、政策以及具體的作為這才是主要的一個推動的目標以上一個提醒謝謝委員"}]}}}}