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10:09:16","影片長度":"00:09:29","會議時間":"2024-05-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於數位發展部主管預算凍結案計11案。\n【5月27日及29日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-27","duration":569,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-14"},"end_time":"2024-05-27T10:09:16+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-27T09:59:47+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":256,"blocks":[["魯委員明哲：（9時59分）謝謝主席，有請黃部長。"],["主席：請黃部長。"],["魯委員明哲：部長早，第一次見面。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["魯委員明哲：因為在你上任之前，看到不管是報章媒體的訪問，也看到你初步的想法，我對你是有非常高的期待，也很多在想法上面，我也給你肯定。第一個、因為兩年前，我一上台就講數發部的時候，就被唐部長指正，他說我們叫數位部不叫數發部，兩年之後，謝謝你，你上任之後，其實我們比較在發展方面要特別講出來，我個人是真的認同，因為如果數位部長期發展把自己當作一個監管單位，或說我自己……如果說數位當然就是我們怎麼樣去管別人、怎麼樣去管理、怎麼樣去研究科技，大概比較著重在這個方面；發展的話，剛剛感覺是煞車啦！我們甚至是需要一個油門，因為這個世界數位經濟發展得不得了，我們如果每天只研究煞車要哪一種煞得最準，不是，那誰帶頭衝啊？其實我們當時覺得我們數發部是有這種概念，那你要不要再講一下你的想法？"],["黃部長彥男：對，我剛剛講就是說其實未來我們國家經濟的發展，我們的機會在數位經濟，所以我剛剛講說數位經濟在發展裡面其實有兩個，一個當然就是我們要興利，另外就要防弊，興利才是我們最重要的目標，所以數發部應該是以興利為目標，但是在這過程中很不幸就是因為有人會利用這樣的數位經濟高速公路在做一些不法的事情，所以我們同時要去防弊，讓我們的數位經濟能夠更正常地發展。所以沒有錯，我上任以後，我特別強調興利這一部分，但是我們知道短期之內，我們必須對目前看到的所謂的問題要做個處理，一個是詐騙，另外一個當然就是資安的個資入侵、攻擊還有竊取個資的問題要先處理，這也是我在上任之後先要處理的問題。"],["魯委員明哲：好，謝謝部長簡要的說明。第一個我們看到不同嘛！第二個不同的話，我覺得你符合我們很多可以講說國民朋友跟我們大部分委員的期待，因為確實我們的數發部是一個新的部會，大家都希望它展現功能，看到功能之後，大家覺得你未來有什麼樣的一些，不管是出國旅費占的比重，大家就比較不會這麼complain，事實上在第二年的時候，我們發覺出國旅費的金額是滿高的，而且可以講說是舉國譁然。我這邊來講，我聽到你的說法，但我是簡單來講就是不是那麼重要，打詐優先，希望把經費移到最重要的一個部分，不是說不出國，你說希望能夠減掉20%，然後因為之前跟唐鳳部長也交流很多次了，他都堅持是每一毛事實上都是很必要的。我看到你們想法不同，但是我是覺得，我看到你的學經歷，我個人是非常佩服，臺大畢業去美國整個留學到博士，然後在美國的企業，包括AT&T，也擔任要職，然後回臺灣之後，事實上有很長的一段時間在政府的不管是數位、科技、資安的領域，所以我覺得產官學你都已經經歷過一遍了，那我覺得科技人講的是第一個，我們就科學，很多東西都有數據化，我們要講得有憑有據，這是我對你的期待。所以你一上任就說要刪掉20%的出國預算，移撥打詐經費，這是正確的嘛！我覺得你要刪掉20%的費用，哪幾次的出國是你覺得……因為我覺得你是科學人嘛，我一上來看了，你不是擲筊，就目前你覺得在今年的預算，你們有出國到日本、出席了哪幾次會議，你覺得是不要的，可不可以說明一下？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，因為今年的預算已經編列了，這個沒辦法去動，我現在主要是針對明年的預算，就是114年的預算，我有整個去檢討，把我們預算拿出來看，也跟各部會去……"],["魯委員明哲：所以你現在也沒有辦法明確說你看到這麼多出國預算，因為我講說就事論事嘛，我們編這麼多的預算，錢是一個問題，每一個錢都注入到一次的出國旅遊，我們希望聽到的是未來，好不好？你回去研究一下啦，總是有幾次它的重要性是A，有些重要性B，有些重要性是C，有些是兩年出國一次的，這個部分我們希望聽到科學人的說法。再來，刪除20%的預算，基礎是什麼？基礎就是今年的出國旅費是多少錢？"],["黃部長彥男：今年是4,000萬，請司長報告。"],["莊司長盈志：謝謝委員給予時間補充說明。今年的預算，本部加兩署是4,400萬，明年的部分是3,300萬，主要減少的部分是有些在國際上的合作，我們希望對方如果可以到臺灣來，我們就儘量邀請對方到臺灣，這樣就可以減少我們一些旅費支出。"],["魯委員明哲：好，您是？"],["莊司長盈志：民主網絡司司長。"],["魯委員明哲：司長，3,300萬一樣嘛！先扣掉，然後回去再補強一下到底哪些旅遊嘛！是不是？"],["莊司長盈志：報告委員，不是。"],["魯委員明哲：你目前已經明確了嗎？明年度。"],["莊司長盈志：明年度的預算已經送院裡面進行審核……"],["魯委員明哲：明年度的已經是3,300萬？"],["莊司長盈志：是。"],["魯委員明哲：我們部長上任沒幾天，還是原來就編3,300萬？你原來就編3,300萬，還是部長上任……"],["莊司長盈志：不是，原本是編4,400萬。"],["魯委員明哲：原本，然後你把它撤回來重送嗎？"],["莊司長盈志：在送出去之前，我們重新再檢討一次，就是有些可以邀請國外……"],["魯委員明哲：什麼時候送出去的？"],["莊司長盈志：上禮拜送出去的。"],["魯委員明哲：這個部分部長應該要知道我們減掉哪些啦，怎麼樣比較清楚。"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，這個我有仔細看過，就是有覺得可以刪的我們就刪這樣。"],["魯委員明哲：好，希望部長也理解一下，因為去年度我們在審今年度的預算，其實總出國的經費不是4,460萬，是5,109萬，經過了我們大家，因為民間覺得這樣不行，我們是刪掉468萬，才有4,460萬，所以當然你從4,460萬往下減，我覺得重點的、精華的A級的會議，我們去參加就好了，其他的部分種子部隊去，回來再教我們，所以我覺得你這個部分我是支持的。我想這次的解凍報告有11項，部長有看嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：看過，但是細節不是很清楚，但是我看過，就是解凍的細節。"],["魯委員明哲：你看過吧？你一上任，大家對你期待很深，你刪除20%的出國預算，可是解凍報告裡面有兩條是你要拜託我們幫你解凍出國預算，那是幹嘛？不是啦！我們說真的，你打詐要立即成效，我真的支持你，所以我今天沒有問，我總要看一下你們的表現，不要一下就說你們不行，可是你今天才講了這件事情，對，明年的我理解嘛！可是你上任有沒有什麼事情可以現在做呢？你現在解凍報告裡面有2項，其中第6點是你們數發部的，其中1,865萬的出國費用，其實只凍結十分之一啦，只凍結186萬，就在今天解凍了，你剛上任，我也不想找麻煩。我建議既然解凍出來，你可能也沒有太瞭解裡面的實質內容，因為有一百多頁，部長不一定有時間可以看，可是你的政策下面在提這個的部分還把它寫得洋洋灑灑的，我覺得不太妥當，我建議就算通過了，這186萬就不要用啦。另外，資安署的929萬，它是整個目去凍結的，就算平均分配到你們那裡面，929萬才4%。你們在提這個報告的時候，我最後講一句話，部長的政策，我也拜託，這邊大部分是公務人員，我相信大家就是把國家的事情做好就好了，可是部長的政策指示，你們在字裡行間很容易讓人家覺得……你知道嗎？因為這部長簽名嘛，是部長拜託大家解凍的，所以你要解凍的總共才沒多少錢，我是希望從今年就開始實現你的承諾，這些才凍結差不多200萬的預算，就算解凍給你，你也暫時匡起來不要用，好不好？"],["莊司長盈志：跟委員說明一下，的確因為我們今年跟國外爭取之下，已經有些部分國際的會議願意到臺灣來辦了，所以相關的經費會減下來。"],["魯委員明哲：省下來嘛！好，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝，魯明哲委員發言完畢。","現在請徐富癸委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":266,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-14","speakers":["李昆澤","廖先翔","林國成","林俊憲","林沛祥","魯明哲","徐富癸","陳素月","何欣純","蔡其昌","許智傑","邱若華","黃健豪","鍾佳濱","王鴻薇","葛如鈞","黃珊珊","洪孟楷","游顥","林月琴","李坤城","張啓楷","楊瓊瓔","陳冠廷","陳培瑜","羅智強"],"page_start":203,"meetingDate":["2024-05-27"],"gazette_id":"1135301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135301_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查 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\"start\": 539.176, \"end\": 539.336, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 539.336, \"end\": 539.356, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"魯\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 540.677, \"end\": 540.918, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"哲\", \"start\": 540.918, \"end\": 541.078, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 541.078, \"end\": 541.098, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,159 --> 00:00:05,901\n好謝謝主席有請我們黃部長請黃部長部長早第一次見面好委員長這個因為你在上任之前也看到不管是報章媒體的一個訪問也看到你一個初步的一個想法那我對你是有非常高的一個期待有很多在想法上面我也給你肯定了第一個因為\n\n2\n00:00:31,832 --> 00:00:48,374\n兩年前我一上台就講這個數發布的時候就被唐部長指正他說我們叫數位部不叫數發布兩年之後謝謝你你上任之後其實我們比較在發展方面要特別講出來那我個人是真的認同\n\n3\n00:00:49,415 --> 00:01:14,949\n因為如果數位部長期發展把自己當作一個監管單位或說我自己如果說數位當然就是我們怎麼樣去管別人怎麼樣去管理怎麼樣去研究科技大概比較著重在這個方面那發展的話一個剛剛感覺是煞車啦我們真的是需要一個油門啦因為這個世界數位經濟發展得不得了我們如果每天只研究我們煞車要用哪一種煞車最準\n\n4\n00:01:15,689 --> 00:01:39,686\n那不是啊那誰帶頭衝啊其實我們當時覺得這個我們數發部是有這種概念那你們要再講一下你的想法對我剛講就是說其實未來的我們國家經濟的發展我們的目我們的機會在數位經濟啦那數位經濟所以我剛講說數位經濟在發展裡面其實有兩個一個當然就是我們要新力當然叫房幣那新力才是我們最重要的目標啦所以本\n\n5\n00:01:40,626 --> 00:02:02,871\n數位發展部應該是以新力為目標但是在這個過程中很不幸就是因為有人會利用這樣的一個數位經濟高速公路在做一些不法的事情所以我們同時要去防避讓我們的數位經濟能夠更正常的發展所以沒有錯所以我上任以後我特別強調新力這一部分但是我們知道短期之內我們必須對目前看到的所謂的問題要做個處理一個當然是詐騙\n\n6\n00:02:22,225 --> 00:02:49,061\n我也覺得你這個符合我們很多可以講說國民朋友跟我們大部分委員的一個期待因為確實因為我們的數位發展部是一個新的部會大家都希望他展現功能看到功能之後大家覺得你未來有什麼樣的一些不管是出國旅費佔的比重那就比較大家不會這麼抱怨事實上在第二年的時候我們發覺出國旅費的金額是蠻高的而且是可以講說舉國化然\n\n7\n00:02:53,084 --> 00:03:18,060\n這邊來講我聽到你的說法但我是簡單來講就是不是那麼重要打詐優先希望把這經費移到最重要的一個部分不是都不出國你說希望能夠減掉20%然後呢因為之前跟唐副部長也交流很多次他說堅持是眉毛事實上都有很很必要的那我看到你們一個想法不同但是我是覺得我看到你的學經理我個人是非常佩服\n\n8\n00:03:19,020 --> 00:03:43,445\n臺大畢業去美國整個留學到博士然後在美國的一個企業包括AT&T也擔任要職然後回台灣之後事實上有很長的一段時間在政府的不管是數位科技資安的這個領域所以我覺得產官學你都已經經歷過一遍了那我覺得科技人講的是第一個我們就科學很多東西都有數據化\n\n9\n00:03:44,665 --> 00:04:10,911\n我們要講的有拼有據這是我對你的期待所以你一上任就說要刪掉20%的出國預算一波打炸經費這是正確的嘛那我覺得你要刪掉哪20%的費用哪幾次的出國是你覺得因為我覺得你是科學人嘛我一上台看我不是擲筊就目前你覺得在今年的預算裡面有哪出國到日本出了哪幾次會議你覺得是不要的\n\n10\n00:04:12,512 --> 00:04:27,873\n報告委員我現在這個主要是針對因為今年的預算已經編列了這個沒辦法去凍結現在主要針對明年的預算就是說11我們說114年的預算那我有整個去檢討把我們預算拿出來看那也跟各部會去\n\n11\n00:04:28,854 --> 00:04:28,874\n拜託!\n\n12\n00:04:59,175 --> 00:04:59,355\n主管報告\n\n13\n00:05:08,709 --> 00:05:32,319\n謝謝委員可以時間補充說明那今年的預算本部加兩署是4400萬那明年的部分是3300萬那主要減少的部分是有些在國際上的合作那我們希望說對方如果可以到台灣來那我們就盡量邀請對方到台灣那這樣就可以減少我們一些支付支出\n\n14\n00:05:32,899 --> 00:05:52,594\n您是?民主網絡市市長市長那個3300萬是先一樣嘛先扣掉然後再回去再補強一下到底哪些旅遊嘛是不是你目前已經明確了嗎明年度?明年度的預算已經受那個院裡面進行審查明年度的已經是3300萬?是那部長上來沒幾天還是原來就變3300萬?\n\n15\n00:05:58,158 --> 00:06:26,423\n你原來就編3300萬還是部長上任不是原本是編4400萬原本然後你把它撤回來重送嗎在送出去之前我們重新再檢討一次就是有些可以邀請什麼時候送出去的在上個禮拜上禮拜送出去好那你這個部分部長應該要知道我們檢調哪些啦怎麼樣比較清楚報告委員這個是我有這個請就要仔細看過對就是有覺得可以刪了我們就刪掉\n\n16\n00:06:26,883 --> 00:06:35,846\n好那我想希望部長也理解一下齁因為去年度我們在省今年度的預算其實總出國的經費不是4460萬是5109萬那經過了我們大家因為民間覺得說這樣不行嘛我們是刪掉了468萬才有4460萬啦所以當然你從4460萬往下減齁\n\n17\n00:06:48,850 --> 00:07:04,695\n對那我覺得重點的精華的A級的會議我們去參加就好了嘛其他的部分總指部隊去回來再教我們啦所以我覺得你這個部分我是支持的那我想這次的解凍報告解凍報告那個有11項部長有看嗎\n\n18\n00:07:06,476 --> 00:07:07,797\n拜託你們幫我解凍我出國預算\n\n19\n00:07:24,412 --> 00:07:47,303\n為什麼?不是啊!我們說真的你打仗要立即成效我真的支持你啊所以我今天沒有問我總要看一下你們的表現嘛不要一下就說你們不行可是你今天才講的這件事情對!明年的我理解嘛可是你上任有沒有什麼事情可以現在做呢?因為那你現在結論報告裡面有兩項其中第6點是你們速發布的其中1865萬的出國費用\n\n20\n00:07:53,346 --> 00:08:19,454\n其實只凍結十分之一啦只凍結186萬啦就在今天解凍啦你剛上任我也不想找麻煩啦我建議啊既然解凍出來你可能也沒有太了解裡面的實質內容因為有100多頁部長不一定有時間可以看可是你的政策下面在提這個的部分啦還把它寫得洋洋灑灑的我覺得不太妥當啦不太妥當我建議啊就算通過了這186萬你就不要用啦\n\n21\n00:08:20,234 --> 00:08:32,498\n另外我們那個資安署的那個929萬是整個木去凍結的就算你平均分配到你們那裡面929萬才4%啦你們在提這個報告的時候我最後講一句話\n\n22\n00:08:38,973 --> 00:08:59,356\n部長的政策我也拜託這邊大部分是公務人員我相信大家就是把國家的事情做好就好了可是部長的政策只是你們在治理行間很容易你知道嗎讓他覺得說啊變成因為這是部長簽名嘛部長拜託大家解凍了所以你要解凍的總共啊\n\n23\n00:09:00,677 --> 00:09:01,098\n魯明哲委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2159\t5901\t好謝謝主席有請我們黃部長請黃部長部長早第一次見面好委員長這個因為你在上任之前也看到不管是報章媒體的一個訪問也看到你一個初步的一個想法那我對你是有非常高的一個期待有很多在想法上面我也給你肯定了第一個因為\n31832\t48374\t兩年前我一上台就講這個數發布的時候就被唐部長指正他說我們叫數位部不叫數發布兩年之後謝謝你你上任之後其實我們比較在發展方面要特別講出來那我個人是真的認同\n49415\t74949\t因為如果數位部長期發展把自己當作一個監管單位或說我自己如果說數位當然就是我們怎麼樣去管別人怎麼樣去管理怎麼樣去研究科技大概比較著重在這個方面那發展的話一個剛剛感覺是煞車啦我們真的是需要一個油門啦因為這個世界數位經濟發展得不得了我們如果每天只研究我們煞車要用哪一種煞車最準\n75689\t99686\t那不是啊那誰帶頭衝啊其實我們當時覺得這個我們數發部是有這種概念那你們要再講一下你的想法對我剛講就是說其實未來的我們國家經濟的發展我們的目我們的機會在數位經濟啦那數位經濟所以我剛講說數位經濟在發展裡面其實有兩個一個當然就是我們要新力當然叫房幣那新力才是我們最重要的目標啦所以本\n100626\t122871\t數位發展部應該是以新力為目標但是在這個過程中很不幸就是因為有人會利用這樣的一個數位經濟高速公路在做一些不法的事情所以我們同時要去防避讓我們的數位經濟能夠更正常的發展所以沒有錯所以我上任以後我特別強調新力這一部分但是我們知道短期之內我們必須對目前看到的所謂的問題要做個處理一個當然是詐騙\n124991\t142125\t議員議員議員議員\n142225\t169061\t我也覺得你這個符合我們很多可以講說國民朋友跟我們大部分委員的一個期待因為確實因為我們的數位發展部是一個新的部會大家都希望他展現功能看到功能之後大家覺得你未來有什麼樣的一些不管是出國旅費佔的比重那就比較大家不會這麼抱怨事實上在第二年的時候我們發覺出國旅費的金額是蠻高的而且是可以講說舉國化然\n173084\t198060\t這邊來講我聽到你的說法但我是簡單來講就是不是那麼重要打詐優先希望把這經費移到最重要的一個部分不是都不出國你說希望能夠減掉20%然後呢因為之前跟唐副部長也交流很多次他說堅持是眉毛事實上都有很很必要的那我看到你們一個想法不同但是我是覺得我看到你的學經理我個人是非常佩服\n199020\t223445\t臺大畢業去美國整個留學到博士然後在美國的一個企業包括 AT&T也擔任要職然後回台灣之後事實上有很長的一段時間在政府的不管是數位科技資安的這個領域所以我覺得產官學你都已經經歷過一遍了那我覺得科技人講的是第一個我們就科學很多東西都有數據化\n224665\t250911\t我們要講的有拼有據這是我對你的期待所以你一上任就說要刪掉20%的出國預算一波打炸經費這是正確的嘛那我覺得你要刪掉哪20%的費用哪幾次的出國是你覺得因為我覺得你是科學人嘛我一上台看我不是擲筊就目前你覺得在今年的預算裡面有哪出國到日本出了哪幾次會議你覺得是不要的\n252512\t267873\t報告委員我現在這個主要是針對因為今年的預算已經編列了這個沒辦法去凍結現在主要針對明年的預算就是說11我們說114年的預算那我有整個去檢討把我們預算拿出來看那也跟各部會去\n268854\t268874\t拜託!\n299175\t299355\t主管報告\n308709\t332319\t謝謝委員可以時間補充說明那今年的預算本部加兩署是4400萬那明年的部分是3300萬那主要減少的部分是有些在國際上的合作那我們希望說對方如果可以到台灣來那我們就盡量邀請對方到台灣那這樣就可以減少我們一些支付支出\n332899\t352594\t您是?民主網絡市市長市長那個3300萬是先一樣嘛先扣掉然後再回去再補強一下到底哪些旅遊嘛是不是你目前已經明確了嗎明年度?明年度的預算已經受那個院裡面進行審查明年度的已經是3300萬?是那部長上來沒幾天還是原來就變3300萬?\n358158\t386423\t你原來就編3300萬還是部長上任不是原本是編4400萬原本然後你把它撤回來重送嗎在送出去之前我們重新再檢討一次就是有些可以邀請什麼時候送出去的在上個禮拜上禮拜送出去好那你這個部分部長應該要知道我們檢調哪些啦怎麼樣比較清楚報告委員這個是我有這個請就要仔細看過對就是有覺得可以刪了我們就刪掉\n386883\t395846\t好那我想希望部長也理解一下齁因為去年度我們在省今年度的預算其實總出國的經費不是4460萬是5109萬那經過了我們大家因為民間覺得說這樣不行嘛我們是刪掉了468萬才有4460萬啦所以當然你從4460萬往下減齁\n408850\t424695\t對那我覺得重點的精華的A級的會議我們去參加就好了嘛其他的部分總指部隊去回來再教我們啦所以我覺得你這個部分我是支持的那我想這次的解凍報告解凍報告那個有11項部長有看嗎\n426476\t427797\t拜託你們幫我解凍我出國預算\n444412\t467303\t為什麼?不是啊!我們說真的你打仗要立即成效我真的支持你啊所以我今天沒有問我總要看一下你們的表現嘛不要一下就說你們不行可是你今天才講的這件事情對!明年的我理解嘛可是你上任有沒有什麼事情可以現在做呢?因為那你現在結論報告裡面有兩項其中第6點是你們速發布的其中1865萬的出國費用\n473346\t499454\t其實只凍結十分之一啦只凍結186萬啦就在今天解凍啦你剛上任我也不想找麻煩啦我建議啊既然解凍出來你可能也沒有太了解裡面的實質內容因為有100多頁部長不一定有時間可以看可是你的政策下面在提這個的部分啦還把它寫得洋洋灑灑的我覺得不太妥當啦不太妥當我建議啊就算通過了這186萬你就不要用啦\n500234\t512498\t另外我們那個資安署的那個929萬是整個木去凍結的就算你平均分配到你們那裡面929萬才4%啦你們在提這個報告的時候我最後講一句話\n518973\t539356\t部長的政策我也拜託這邊大部分是公務人員我相信大家就是把國家的事情做好就好了可是部長的政策只是你們在治理行間很容易你知道嗎讓他覺得說啊變成因為這是部長簽名嘛部長拜託大家解凍了所以你要解凍的總共啊\n540677\t541098\t魯明哲委員\n","txt":"好謝謝主席有請我們黃部長請黃部長部長早第一次見面好委員長這個因為你在上任之前也看到不管是報章媒體的一個訪問也看到你一個初步的一個想法那我對你是有非常高的一個期待有很多在想法上面我也給你肯定了第一個因為\n兩年前我一上台就講這個數發布的時候就被唐部長指正他說我們叫數位部不叫數發布兩年之後謝謝你你上任之後其實我們比較在發展方面要特別講出來那我個人是真的認同\n因為如果數位部長期發展把自己當作一個監管單位或說我自己如果說數位當然就是我們怎麼樣去管別人怎麼樣去管理怎麼樣去研究科技大概比較著重在這個方面那發展的話一個剛剛感覺是煞車啦我們真的是需要一個油門啦因為這個世界數位經濟發展得不得了我們如果每天只研究我們煞車要用哪一種煞車最準\n那不是啊那誰帶頭衝啊其實我們當時覺得這個我們數發部是有這種概念那你們要再講一下你的想法對我剛講就是說其實未來的我們國家經濟的發展我們的目我們的機會在數位經濟啦那數位經濟所以我剛講說數位經濟在發展裡面其實有兩個一個當然就是我們要新力當然叫房幣那新力才是我們最重要的目標啦所以本\n數位發展部應該是以新力為目標但是在這個過程中很不幸就是因為有人會利用這樣的一個數位經濟高速公路在做一些不法的事情所以我們同時要去防避讓我們的數位經濟能夠更正常的發展所以沒有錯所以我上任以後我特別強調新力這一部分但是我們知道短期之內我們必須對目前看到的所謂的問題要做個處理一個當然是詐騙\n議員議員議員議員\n我也覺得你這個符合我們很多可以講說國民朋友跟我們大部分委員的一個期待因為確實因為我們的數位發展部是一個新的部會大家都希望他展現功能看到功能之後大家覺得你未來有什麼樣的一些不管是出國旅費佔的比重那就比較大家不會這麼抱怨事實上在第二年的時候我們發覺出國旅費的金額是蠻高的而且是可以講說舉國化然\n這邊來講我聽到你的說法但我是簡單來講就是不是那麼重要打詐優先希望把這經費移到最重要的一個部分不是都不出國你說希望能夠減掉20%然後呢因為之前跟唐副部長也交流很多次他說堅持是眉毛事實上都有很很必要的那我看到你們一個想法不同但是我是覺得我看到你的學經理我個人是非常佩服\n臺大畢業去美國整個留學到博士然後在美國的一個企業包括 AT&T也擔任要職然後回台灣之後事實上有很長的一段時間在政府的不管是數位科技資安的這個領域所以我覺得產官學你都已經經歷過一遍了那我覺得科技人講的是第一個我們就科學很多東西都有數據化\n我們要講的有拼有據這是我對你的期待所以你一上任就說要刪掉20%的出國預算一波打炸經費這是正確的嘛那我覺得你要刪掉哪20%的費用哪幾次的出國是你覺得因為我覺得你是科學人嘛我一上台看我不是擲筊就目前你覺得在今年的預算裡面有哪出國到日本出了哪幾次會議你覺得是不要的\n報告委員我現在這個主要是針對因為今年的預算已經編列了這個沒辦法去凍結現在主要針對明年的預算就是說11我們說114年的預算那我有整個去檢討把我們預算拿出來看那也跟各部會去\n拜託!\n主管報告\n謝謝委員可以時間補充說明那今年的預算本部加兩署是4400萬那明年的部分是3300萬那主要減少的部分是有些在國際上的合作那我們希望說對方如果可以到台灣來那我們就盡量邀請對方到台灣那這樣就可以減少我們一些支付支出\n您是?民主網絡市市長市長那個3300萬是先一樣嘛先扣掉然後再回去再補強一下到底哪些旅遊嘛是不是你目前已經明確了嗎明年度?明年度的預算已經受那個院裡面進行審查明年度的已經是3300萬?是那部長上來沒幾天還是原來就變3300萬?\n你原來就編3300萬還是部長上任不是原本是編4400萬原本然後你把它撤回來重送嗎在送出去之前我們重新再檢討一次就是有些可以邀請什麼時候送出去的在上個禮拜上禮拜送出去好那你這個部分部長應該要知道我們檢調哪些啦怎麼樣比較清楚報告委員這個是我有這個請就要仔細看過對就是有覺得可以刪了我們就刪掉\n好那我想希望部長也理解一下齁因為去年度我們在省今年度的預算其實總出國的經費不是4460萬是5109萬那經過了我們大家因為民間覺得說這樣不行嘛我們是刪掉了468萬才有4460萬啦所以當然你從4460萬往下減齁\n對那我覺得重點的精華的A級的會議我們去參加就好了嘛其他的部分總指部隊去回來再教我們啦所以我覺得你這個部分我是支持的那我想這次的解凍報告解凍報告那個有11項部長有看嗎\n拜託你們幫我解凍我出國預算\n為什麼?不是啊!我們說真的你打仗要立即成效我真的支持你啊所以我今天沒有問我總要看一下你們的表現嘛不要一下就說你們不行可是你今天才講的這件事情對!明年的我理解嘛可是你上任有沒有什麼事情可以現在做呢?因為那你現在結論報告裡面有兩項其中第6點是你們速發布的其中1865萬的出國費用\n其實只凍結十分之一啦只凍結186萬啦就在今天解凍啦你剛上任我也不想找麻煩啦我建議啊既然解凍出來你可能也沒有太了解裡面的實質內容因為有100多頁部長不一定有時間可以看可是你的政策下面在提這個的部分啦還把它寫得洋洋灑灑的我覺得不太妥當啦不太妥當我建議啊就算通過了這186萬你就不要用啦\n另外我們那個資安署的那個929萬是整個木去凍結的就算你平均分配到你們那裡面929萬才4%啦你們在提這個報告的時候我最後講一句話\n部長的政策我也拜託這邊大部分是公務人員我相信大家就是把國家的事情做好就好了可是部長的政策只是你們在治理行間很容易你知道嗎讓他覺得說啊變成因為這是部長簽名嘛部長拜託大家解凍了所以你要解凍的總共啊\n魯明哲委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.159 --> 00:05.901\n好謝謝主席有請我們黃部長請黃部長部長早第一次見面好委員長這個因為你在上任之前也看到不管是報章媒體的一個訪問也看到你一個初步的一個想法那我對你是有非常高的一個期待有很多在想法上面我也給你肯定了第一個因為\n\n00:31.832 --> 00:48.374\n兩年前我一上台就講這個數發布的時候就被唐部長指正他說我們叫數位部不叫數發布兩年之後謝謝你你上任之後其實我們比較在發展方面要特別講出來那我個人是真的認同\n\n00:49.415 --> 01:14.949\n因為如果數位部長期發展把自己當作一個監管單位或說我自己如果說數位當然就是我們怎麼樣去管別人怎麼樣去管理怎麼樣去研究科技大概比較著重在這個方面那發展的話一個剛剛感覺是煞車啦我們真的是需要一個油門啦因為這個世界數位經濟發展得不得了我們如果每天只研究我們煞車要用哪一種煞車最準\n\n01:15.689 --> 01:39.686\n那不是啊那誰帶頭衝啊其實我們當時覺得這個我們數發部是有這種概念那你們要再講一下你的想法對我剛講就是說其實未來的我們國家經濟的發展我們的目我們的機會在數位經濟啦那數位經濟所以我剛講說數位經濟在發展裡面其實有兩個一個當然就是我們要新力當然叫房幣那新力才是我們最重要的目標啦所以本\n\n01:40.626 --> 02:02.871\n數位發展部應該是以新力為目標但是在這個過程中很不幸就是因為有人會利用這樣的一個數位經濟高速公路在做一些不法的事情所以我們同時要去防避讓我們的數位經濟能夠更正常的發展所以沒有錯所以我上任以後我特別強調新力這一部分但是我們知道短期之內我們必須對目前看到的所謂的問題要做個處理一個當然是詐騙\n\n02:22.225 --> 02:49.061\n我也覺得你這個符合我們很多可以講說國民朋友跟我們大部分委員的一個期待因為確實因為我們的數位發展部是一個新的部會大家都希望他展現功能看到功能之後大家覺得你未來有什麼樣的一些不管是出國旅費佔的比重那就比較大家不會這麼抱怨事實上在第二年的時候我們發覺出國旅費的金額是蠻高的而且是可以講說舉國化然\n\n02:53.084 --> 03:18.060\n這邊來講我聽到你的說法但我是簡單來講就是不是那麼重要打詐優先希望把這經費移到最重要的一個部分不是都不出國你說希望能夠減掉20%然後呢因為之前跟唐副部長也交流很多次他說堅持是眉毛事實上都有很很必要的那我看到你們一個想法不同但是我是覺得我看到你的學經理我個人是非常佩服\n\n03:19.020 --> 03:43.445\n臺大畢業去美國整個留學到博士然後在美國的一個企業包括AT&T也擔任要職然後回台灣之後事實上有很長的一段時間在政府的不管是數位科技資安的這個領域所以我覺得產官學你都已經經歷過一遍了那我覺得科技人講的是第一個我們就科學很多東西都有數據化\n\n03:44.665 --> 04:10.911\n我們要講的有拼有據這是我對你的期待所以你一上任就說要刪掉20%的出國預算一波打炸經費這是正確的嘛那我覺得你要刪掉哪20%的費用哪幾次的出國是你覺得因為我覺得你是科學人嘛我一上台看我不是擲筊就目前你覺得在今年的預算裡面有哪出國到日本出了哪幾次會議你覺得是不要的\n\n04:12.512 --> 04:27.873\n報告委員我現在這個主要是針對因為今年的預算已經編列了這個沒辦法去凍結現在主要針對明年的預算就是說11我們說114年的預算那我有整個去檢討把我們預算拿出來看那也跟各部會去\n\n04:28.854 --> 04:28.874\n拜託!\n\n04:59.175 --> 04:59.355\n主管報告\n\n05:08.709 --> 05:32.319\n謝謝委員可以時間補充說明那今年的預算本部加兩署是4400萬那明年的部分是3300萬那主要減少的部分是有些在國際上的合作那我們希望說對方如果可以到台灣來那我們就盡量邀請對方到台灣那這樣就可以減少我們一些支付支出\n\n05:32.899 --> 05:52.594\n您是?民主網絡市市長市長那個3300萬是先一樣嘛先扣掉然後再回去再補強一下到底哪些旅遊嘛是不是你目前已經明確了嗎明年度?明年度的預算已經受那個院裡面進行審查明年度的已經是3300萬?是那部長上來沒幾天還是原來就變3300萬?\n\n05:58.158 --> 06:26.423\n你原來就編3300萬還是部長上任不是原本是編4400萬原本然後你把它撤回來重送嗎在送出去之前我們重新再檢討一次就是有些可以邀請什麼時候送出去的在上個禮拜上禮拜送出去好那你這個部分部長應該要知道我們檢調哪些啦怎麼樣比較清楚報告委員這個是我有這個請就要仔細看過對就是有覺得可以刪了我們就刪掉\n\n06:26.883 --> 06:35.846\n好那我想希望部長也理解一下齁因為去年度我們在省今年度的預算其實總出國的經費不是4460萬是5109萬那經過了我們大家因為民間覺得說這樣不行嘛我們是刪掉了468萬才有4460萬啦所以當然你從4460萬往下減齁\n\n06:48.850 --> 07:04.695\n對那我覺得重點的精華的A級的會議我們去參加就好了嘛其他的部分總指部隊去回來再教我們啦所以我覺得你這個部分我是支持的那我想這次的解凍報告解凍報告那個有11項部長有看嗎\n\n07:06.476 --> 07:07.797\n拜託你們幫我解凍我出國預算\n\n07:24.412 --> 07:47.303\n為什麼?不是啊!我們說真的你打仗要立即成效我真的支持你啊所以我今天沒有問我總要看一下你們的表現嘛不要一下就說你們不行可是你今天才講的這件事情對!明年的我理解嘛可是你上任有沒有什麼事情可以現在做呢?因為那你現在結論報告裡面有兩項其中第6點是你們速發布的其中1865萬的出國費用\n\n07:53.346 --> 08:19.454\n其實只凍結十分之一啦只凍結186萬啦就在今天解凍啦你剛上任我也不想找麻煩啦我建議啊既然解凍出來你可能也沒有太了解裡面的實質內容因為有100多頁部長不一定有時間可以看可是你的政策下面在提這個的部分啦還把它寫得洋洋灑灑的我覺得不太妥當啦不太妥當我建議啊就算通過了這186萬你就不要用啦\n\n08:20.234 --> 08:32.498\n另外我們那個資安署的那個929萬是整個木去凍結的就算你平均分配到你們那裡面929萬才4%啦你們在提這個報告的時候我最後講一句話\n\n08:38.973 --> 08:59.356\n部長的政策我也拜託這邊大部分是公務人員我相信大家就是把國家的事情做好就好了可是部長的政策只是你們在治理行間很容易你知道嗎讓他覺得說啊變成因為這是部長簽名嘛部長拜託大家解凍了所以你要解凍的總共啊\n\n09:00.677 --> 09:01.098\n魯明哲委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.159,"end":5.901,"text":"好謝謝主席有請我們黃部長請黃部長部長早第一次見面好委員長這個因為你在上任之前也看到不管是報章媒體的一個訪問也看到你一個初步的一個想法那我對你是有非常高的一個期待有很多在想法上面我也給你肯定了第一個因為"},{"start":31.832,"end":48.374,"text":"兩年前我一上台就講這個數發布的時候就被唐部長指正他說我們叫數位部不叫數發布兩年之後謝謝你你上任之後其實我們比較在發展方面要特別講出來那我個人是真的認同"},{"start":49.415,"end":74.949,"text":"因為如果數位部長期發展把自己當作一個監管單位或說我自己如果說數位當然就是我們怎麼樣去管別人怎麼樣去管理怎麼樣去研究科技大概比較著重在這個方面那發展的話一個剛剛感覺是煞車啦我們真的是需要一個油門啦因為這個世界數位經濟發展得不得了我們如果每天只研究我們煞車要用哪一種煞車最準"},{"start":75.689,"end":99.686,"text":"那不是啊那誰帶頭衝啊其實我們當時覺得這個我們數發部是有這種概念那你們要再講一下你的想法對我剛講就是說其實未來的我們國家經濟的發展我們的目我們的機會在數位經濟啦那數位經濟所以我剛講說數位經濟在發展裡面其實有兩個一個當然就是我們要新力當然叫房幣那新力才是我們最重要的目標啦所以本"},{"start":100.626,"end":122.871,"text":"數位發展部應該是以新力為目標但是在這個過程中很不幸就是因為有人會利用這樣的一個數位經濟高速公路在做一些不法的事情所以我們同時要去防避讓我們的數位經濟能夠更正常的發展所以沒有錯所以我上任以後我特別強調新力這一部分但是我們知道短期之內我們必須對目前看到的所謂的問題要做個處理一個當然是詐騙"},{"start":124.991,"end":142.125,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":142.225,"end":169.061,"text":"我也覺得你這個符合我們很多可以講說國民朋友跟我們大部分委員的一個期待因為確實因為我們的數位發展部是一個新的部會大家都希望他展現功能看到功能之後大家覺得你未來有什麼樣的一些不管是出國旅費佔的比重那就比較大家不會這麼抱怨事實上在第二年的時候我們發覺出國旅費的金額是蠻高的而且是可以講說舉國化然"},{"start":173.084,"end":198.06,"text":"這邊來講我聽到你的說法但我是簡單來講就是不是那麼重要打詐優先希望把這經費移到最重要的一個部分不是都不出國你說希望能夠減掉20%然後呢因為之前跟唐副部長也交流很多次他說堅持是眉毛事實上都有很很必要的那我看到你們一個想法不同但是我是覺得我看到你的學經理我個人是非常佩服"},{"start":199.02,"end":223.445,"text":"臺大畢業去美國整個留學到博士然後在美國的一個企業包括 AT&T也擔任要職然後回台灣之後事實上有很長的一段時間在政府的不管是數位科技資安的這個領域所以我覺得產官學你都已經經歷過一遍了那我覺得科技人講的是第一個我們就科學很多東西都有數據化"},{"start":224.665,"end":250.911,"text":"我們要講的有拼有據這是我對你的期待所以你一上任就說要刪掉20%的出國預算一波打炸經費這是正確的嘛那我覺得你要刪掉哪20%的費用哪幾次的出國是你覺得因為我覺得你是科學人嘛我一上台看我不是擲筊就目前你覺得在今年的預算裡面有哪出國到日本出了哪幾次會議你覺得是不要的"},{"start":252.512,"end":267.873,"text":"報告委員我現在這個主要是針對因為今年的預算已經編列了這個沒辦法去凍結現在主要針對明年的預算就是說11我們說114年的預算那我有整個去檢討把我們預算拿出來看那也跟各部會去"},{"start":268.854,"end":268.874,"text":"拜託!"},{"start":299.175,"end":299.355,"text":"主管報告"},{"start":308.709,"end":332.319,"text":"謝謝委員可以時間補充說明那今年的預算本部加兩署是4400萬那明年的部分是3300萬那主要減少的部分是有些在國際上的合作那我們希望說對方如果可以到台灣來那我們就盡量邀請對方到台灣那這樣就可以減少我們一些支付支出"},{"start":332.899,"end":352.594,"text":"您是?民主網絡市市長市長那個3300萬是先一樣嘛先扣掉然後再回去再補強一下到底哪些旅遊嘛是不是你目前已經明確了嗎明年度?明年度的預算已經受那個院裡面進行審查明年度的已經是3300萬?是那部長上來沒幾天還是原來就變3300萬?"},{"start":358.158,"end":386.423,"text":"你原來就編3300萬還是部長上任不是原本是編4400萬原本然後你把它撤回來重送嗎在送出去之前我們重新再檢討一次就是有些可以邀請什麼時候送出去的在上個禮拜上禮拜送出去好那你這個部分部長應該要知道我們檢調哪些啦怎麼樣比較清楚報告委員這個是我有這個請就要仔細看過對就是有覺得可以刪了我們就刪掉"},{"start":386.883,"end":395.846,"text":"好那我想希望部長也理解一下齁因為去年度我們在省今年度的預算其實總出國的經費不是4460萬是5109萬那經過了我們大家因為民間覺得說這樣不行嘛我們是刪掉了468萬才有4460萬啦所以當然你從4460萬往下減齁"},{"start":408.85,"end":424.695,"text":"對那我覺得重點的精華的A級的會議我們去參加就好了嘛其他的部分總指部隊去回來再教我們啦所以我覺得你這個部分我是支持的那我想這次的解凍報告解凍報告那個有11項部長有看嗎"},{"start":426.476,"end":427.797,"text":"拜託你們幫我解凍我出國預算"},{"start":444.412,"end":467.303,"text":"為什麼?不是啊!我們說真的你打仗要立即成效我真的支持你啊所以我今天沒有問我總要看一下你們的表現嘛不要一下就說你們不行可是你今天才講的這件事情對!明年的我理解嘛可是你上任有沒有什麼事情可以現在做呢?因為那你現在結論報告裡面有兩項其中第6點是你們速發布的其中1865萬的出國費用"},{"start":473.346,"end":499.454,"text":"其實只凍結十分之一啦只凍結186萬啦就在今天解凍啦你剛上任我也不想找麻煩啦我建議啊既然解凍出來你可能也沒有太了解裡面的實質內容因為有100多頁部長不一定有時間可以看可是你的政策下面在提這個的部分啦還把它寫得洋洋灑灑的我覺得不太妥當啦不太妥當我建議啊就算通過了這186萬你就不要用啦"},{"start":500.234,"end":512.498,"text":"另外我們那個資安署的那個929萬是整個木去凍結的就算你平均分配到你們那裡面929萬才4%啦你們在提這個報告的時候我最後講一句話"},{"start":518.973,"end":539.356,"text":"部長的政策我也拜託這邊大部分是公務人員我相信大家就是把國家的事情做好就好了可是部長的政策只是你們在治理行間很容易你知道嗎讓他覺得說啊變成因為這是部長簽名嘛部長拜託大家解凍了所以你要解凍的總共啊"},{"start":540.677,"end":541.098,"text":"魯明哲委員"}]}}}}