{"id":152997,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152997","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/536b9eee2a0ea5b393a3aabe35375fcce6d49214c7a82f13945ede7791f90b9e06b5fab5b46a0e585ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"柯志恩","委員發言時間":"09:57:53 - 10:10:35","影片長度":"00:12:42","會議時間":"2024-05-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【5月27日及29日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-27","duration":762,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-14"},"end_time":"2024-05-27T10:10:35+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-27T09:57:53+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":256,"blocks":[["柯委員志恩：（9時57分）謝謝主席，我們請鄭部長。"],["主席：請鄭部長。"],["柯委員志恩：部長好。部長，在你之前，歷任教育部部長當中，杜正勝可以說是我們認為政治性最強烈的，而且他的爭議非常大，我們回想過去他對教育所作的政策當中，大概就是把臺灣的地圖倒過來看，堅持非常大的本土化，我必須說你過去給我們的印象也是政治立場非常鮮明的，我覺得這是你個人的政治理念，也是你個人的選擇，但是我一開始還是要提醒，教育部部長這個位置，最忌諱的就是把政治的意識帶入教育，我覺得政治是不應該凌駕在教育之上的，政治更是不可污染教育，所以一開始部長是不是可以承諾，絕對不會把你個人的意識形態帶到教育？"],["鄭部長英耀：我想身為一個教育人，跟委員報告，我只關心臺灣的教育怎麼更好，然後怎麼從專業……我從過去一路走來，在談教育的時候，在談人才培育，只有從專業。我上個禮拜跟我們司處聽取業務簡報的時候，也特別強調所有的東西一定要找對的人，然後回到自己的專業……"],["柯委員志恩：好，我希望部長能夠就是如此，就是以教育為一個本業，不要有太多政治的立場，為什麼呢？因為就誠如剛剛洪孟楷委員提到的，當初的卡管案真的讓我們的高教受到非常嚴重的傷害。部長，你是不是百分之百願意捍衛大學的自主？你絕對要捍衛大學的自主，非常地簡單，因為我們在2018年7月的時候，曾經有14個──那時候是公立大學成立了全國大學自主聯盟，他們願意站出來痛批教育部破壞大學自主，所以很多人願意站出來聲援管中閔，這件事情，其實我必須要說，剛剛洪孟楷特別提到了周祝瑛，他也是我政大的學姐，所以你也是我政大的學長，他是在幫你，你雖然說你不復記憶，但是他只是告訴你，你當年沒有站出來，但是你私下還是認為教育部這樣涉入大學是不對的，所以你應該謝謝他，對不對？部長。"],["鄭部長英耀：我想大學很重要的就是大家能夠自由的分享許多所謂的……"],["柯委員志恩：是，我不會問你如果你當年是教育部長，會不會比較好？我還是強調一貫的作法，政治不應該涉入任何教育、大學要絕對的自主，你來自大學，你應該很清楚這樣的概念，我們希望你能夠一秉初衷，這樣可以做得到吧！"],["鄭部長英耀：這是我的承諾。"],["柯委員志恩：好，這是你的承諾，很好！","我們接下來開始來討論一下大家非常關切的雙語教育，因為賴總統的目標是在2030年要讓臺灣變成雙語國家，他也花了100億，部長，但是你也知道，雙語政策亂象叢生，怨聲載道，賴總統還是堅持，這跟他的個性其實非常有關係，他非常的拗！你在中山大學時非常配合政府的雙語政策，你真的認為2030年臺灣可以變成雙語國家嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：我覺得語言的學習，特別要成為一個官方語言，不是那麼容易，所以2030年，我覺得在整個政策如何讓我們的新世代年輕人能夠直接跟國際接軌這些，不管從產業或者移動的能力，那個方向是……"],["柯委員志恩：是正確的，但是它變成……"],["鄭部長英耀：2030年，我也同意主席所講，我們都很清楚，可能要有更長的時間，但是從現在開始做，如果要走30年，現在不做，未來還是得要30年……"],["柯委員志恩：2030年距離現在只有5、6年的時間，現在是2024……"],["鄭部長英耀：所以我的意思是也許許多的政策充滿理想性……"],["柯委員志恩：所以不要把這個時間掐在2030年……"],["鄭部長英耀：是，我同意……"],["柯委員志恩：因為目前來說的話，部長，你應該很清楚，太多學者專家，包括高教的，包括外語學院的，包括英文系這樣背景出身的人，他們說這樣的一個政策真的是完全沒有經過思考、完全是做到非常走火入魔，而且雙語教育真的會成為國王的新衣！然後我也很驚訝去年9月賴總統特別表示，它是執行出了問題，要形成國家團隊，用更包容的方式來推動雙語教育。我真的是聽不太懂，請問部長，你是未來的執行單位，什麼叫做用更包容的方法來推廣雙語教育，你可不可以解釋一下？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，我們並不是雙語國家，我們是現在在推雙語教育的政策，這個人才培育，我們看到產業也都在……"],["柯委員志恩：產業非常的需要，部長，你現在是教育部長，你是執行者，你就要特別去跟賴總統建議，你站在第一線上面，你就應該告訴我們，目前我們臺灣要推廣雙語教育，特別是英文的教育，到底出了哪一些問題？我們來看看這些政策，你覺得做得到嗎？在第16頁，你自己寫的，積極建構於英文、國文、本土語文3項課程之外的其他領域。你還告訴我們，要落實中小學採全英語的教課，你的第16頁所講的，要用英語教藝術、英語教體育、英語教數學，有可能嗎？部長，我們現在距離2030年只剩下6年的時間，你認為我們現在有辦法做到這一些事情嗎？如果沒有辦法，你是執行者，你要給賴總統什麼樣的建議？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員的關心，大家都肯定雙語教育在人才培育是重要的，但是我也同意我們針對過去的政策做滾動式的修正，這個2030年，以現在來看，確實包含師資或者城鄉的，是有落差的……"],["柯委員志恩：它是有問題的，它根本做不到！部長，而且你剛剛點出來的師資，77%的縣市根本就是本國師資不足，然後你知道最大的問題是什麼？因為我們雙語政策是在108課綱上路之後才中間跳出來的，配合那時候的行政院長特別提到的，它根本不在我們課綱的表定規劃上面，它突然冒出來，你覺得以這個既有的十年大計課綱當中，你怎麼樣讓它落實？你怎麼讓它跟課綱並存？我覺得這是一個很大的問題，而且我想在場的人都知道，永遠要教育部補貼人力，因為師資不足，英語教育是師父領進門，學生要有十足的動機，不要有老師教、有課程排再去學英文，這是永遠不夠的，部長，你同意吧！","目前我們整個教育的現場裡面根本沒有讓孩子可以自主學習，目前有那麼多的平臺，他可以自主去學習，這點還是沒有辦法做到，我們有很多輔助的工具，就是整個課程的教法完全沒有辦法！而且我還特別跟你提到，你看政大、中正，很多頂大把英檢的畢業門檻都取消，這是大學裡面自己做決定的，因為他們一向認為沒有中級檢定完全不妨礙成為頂大學生該具備的。如果是這樣的話，未來配合雙語教育，你還要我們教師甄試不分科都要中級檢定？你認為任何一個老師的英文只要到中級檢定，他就有辦法成為比較好的老師嗎？如果沒有的話，為什麼還要有這個規定？部長，我這樣說對不對？你要教體育、你要教藝術，英文也要中級檢定，中級檢定表示英文就好嗎？現在所有英文中級檢定過的，我不相信他英文可以講得好，還可以用英文發音來教學生。","部長，你剛剛提到了，你要澈底聽到第一線老師的聲音，目前整個制度完全亂了套，只不過因為是賴總統提出的，而且有100億，他完全沒有考慮到怎麼補、怎麼貼永遠都是不夠的，重點是孩子的學習動機，給他一個東西，他就有辦法好好的發展，現在我們的教育系統完全沒有這一套，你同意嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：應該說我們來努力，我們也看到地方政府確實在教師甄試出現了一些我們不希望的甄選方式……"],["柯委員志恩：本來就是，部長，我跟你說，各大學裡面也常常都是這樣的，為了配合教育部的雙語政策，要讓他們的卓越計畫可以寫得很好、深耕計畫可以寫得很好，還跟你報告，所有的教職員工，說實在的，英語系畢業的都比一般人來得更容易進去，為什麼？因為它都有英文門檻，所以我們的英文門檻不是這樣的，要變成雙語國家不是這樣做的，這個不可能的！我在國外留學那麼多年，也不是透過這個方法就有辦法讓自己的英文變得很好。","部長，所以我強烈的要求，你真的應該開一個有關於雙語政策的國是會議，真的好好的聽所有的教育團體、第一線的老師到底怎麼樣來看待這件事情，這個是你最快時間能夠瞭解目前雙語教育政策的最好方式，我還特別給你打包票，2030年賴總統的雙語國家目標絕對沒有辦法達到，因為只有6年的時間，有太多事情要補足了。","最後，我要就教於你剛剛所提到的，大家都會關心陸生來臺，因為我自己在大學教書，我很清楚，你在書面報告當中沒有提到有關陸生的這個部分，你剛剛已經承認，這可能是你們太忙，疏失了，但我要告訴部長一個數據，112年陸生學士班已經快接近清零的階段，我們現在從頭到尾加在一起，說實在的，連續4年停招，你如果要在明年開放的話，我覺得這還有一大段路要走，因為整個學士班已經快接近清零的階段，而且目前為止研修生大概只剩下2,500人，520之後可能會更加的慘烈！這可能要拿出非常多的策略及方法，而且我自己在大學裡面，說實在，我看到我的研究生有一些來自大陸的，我根本不管他是來自哪裡，他的程度相當不錯，但是我要找他當研究助理、想要給獎學金都沒有機會，那是因為我們的政策，部長，你覺得這樣公平嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，事實上，他們現在也可以領獎學金，也可以擔任研究助理……"],["柯委員志恩：我是覺得像學校的工讀這些東西不要去管……"],["鄭部長英耀：目前這是被允許的。"],["柯委員志恩：跟一般的港澳學生比起來，其實陸生在很多地方的條件上還是會被限縮，我沒有特別幫他們講話，但是我覺得用人唯才，學生有意願到臺灣來學習，應該給他更公平的機會。","因為我自己說要準時，所以我一定要問快一點。","最重要的是兩岸高教，部長，你也知道高教的交流是非常重要的，但是2021年清大的清華海峽研究院被嚴查，現在國科會的主委吳誠文就是當年清大的副校長，現在他講起那個時候還是覺得委屈，因為被抹紅，這個寒蟬效應目前還是有，目前為止一個月根本來不到一個學者，他們認為官方卡得很凶。我只問最後一句話，目前來說的話，鄭部長，你的態度，你會用滲透及統戰的觀點來看待兩岸的學術交流嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：我想基本上我是不會從這個角度，我還是強調學術的交流就是從專業、真正的學術，這一個名詞對我來講，基本上，我是……"],["柯委員志恩：我們都很清楚學術就是在專業上來做討論，可是現在完完全全變一個非常單純的世界，只要跟對岸有任何關聯度的話，大家就用非常多不同的方法賦予它很多不同的政治意識，我覺得這對學術本身來說，對彼此交流不管在學生或在學者專家來說，此風是沒有辦法的，我希望部長能夠一如你剛剛所承諾的，該是怎麼樣就是怎麼樣，讓世界各國的交流都能夠維持在教育單純的一個基準點上，這點應該是你也可以同意的吧？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員的指教，我想這一個方向是無庸置疑的。"],["柯委員志恩：好，謝謝。"],["主席（柯委員志恩）：接下來我們請林倩綺委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":342,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-14","speakers":["柯志恩","萬美玲","陳培瑜","洪孟楷","林倩綺","葉元之","郭昱晴","葛如鈞","吳沛憶","陳秀寳","林宜瑾","張雅琳","吳春城","羅廷瑋","吳思瑤","鄭天財Sra 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732.854, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,113 --> 00:00:06,254\n謝謝主席。我們請鄭部長。好,請鄭部長。好,部長好。來,部長。我想在你之前,歷任教育部長當中,杜政聖可以說是我們認為政治性格是最強烈的。而且他爭議的非常的大。我們回想過去他所對於教育做的政策當中,大概就是他把台灣的地圖倒過來看。\n\n2\n00:00:56,716 --> 00:01:01,536\n部長你是不是可以承諾絕對不會把你個人的意識形態帶到教育\n\n3\n00:01:03,097 --> 00:01:27,665\n我想身為一個教育人跟委員報告我只關心台灣的教育怎麼更好然後怎麼樣從專業我一直從過去一路以來在談教育的時候在談人才培育只有從專業我也特別在這一次在上個禮拜在跟我們師處這個聽這個業務簡報的時候所有的東西一定要找對的人然後回到\n\n4\n00:01:29,326 --> 00:01:47,077\n我希望部長就是能夠是如此的就是以教育為一個本業不要有太多政治的一個立場為什麼呢因為就誠如剛剛洪孟凱委員提到的當初的卡管案真的是讓我們的高教受到非常嚴重的傷害那部長你是說百分之百願意捍衛大學的自主\n\n5\n00:01:48,188 --> 00:02:06,755\n你絕對是捍衛大學的自主因為非常的簡單因為我們在2018年7月的時候曾經有14個那時候是現任的公立大學成立了全國大學自主聯盟他們願意站出來痛批教育部來破壞大學自主所以很多人願意站出來聲援管中你\n\n6\n00:02:07,615 --> 00:02:21,001\n所以這件事情呢其實我必須要說剛剛洪孟凱特別提到的周志英他也是我政大的學姐所以你也是我政大的學長他是在幫你他在幫你你雖然說你不負記憶但是他只是告訴你說你當年沒有站出來但是你私下還是認為這個教育部這樣的一個涉入大學是不對的所以你應該謝謝他嘛對不對部長\n\n7\n00:02:32,714 --> 00:02:37,479\n教育部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況：邀請教育部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況．\n\n8\n00:02:55,124 --> 00:03:21,584\n這是我的承諾這是你的承諾很好我們接下來開始討論一下大家非常關切的一個雙語教育因為我們的賴總統他是目標是在2030年時候呢他要讓台灣變成雙語的國家那他也花了100億但是呢部長你也知道嘛雙語的是亂象重生越生再到但是賴總統還是質疑這個他的個性是非常的關心非常的new那你在中山大學是非常配合政府的雙語的政策\n\n9\n00:03:22,806 --> 00:03:23,570\n那你真的認為2030台灣可以變成雙語國家嗎?\n\n10\n00:03:28,749 --> 00:03:57,594\n我覺得議員的一個學習特別要成為一個官方的議員他不是那麼容易所以2030年我覺得在整個政策就是說如何讓我們的新世代年輕人能夠有國際這個直接能夠跟國際接軌的這些不管從產業或者移動的能力我想那個方向是是正確的但是他變成2030年我也同意主席所講你我我們都很清楚他可能要有\n\n11\n00:04:13,771 --> 00:04:38,061\n時間恰在2030年因為目前來說的話真的是部長你應該很清楚太多學者專家包括高教包括去外語學院包括英文系的這樣的一個背景出身的人他說真的是這麼樣的一個政策啊政策完全沒有經過思考完全是做出非常到著火入魔而且雙語教育真的會成為國王的新衣啊然後呢我很驚訝的這個目前為止我們去年9月這個賴總統啊他特別表示\n\n12\n00:04:43,103 --> 00:04:43,823\n拜託幫我解釋一下\n\n13\n00:04:59,974 --> 00:04:59,994\n部長．\n\n14\n00:05:14,994 --> 00:05:34,644\n必須要以你像是教育部長你是執行者你就要特別的去跟賴總統來建議你站在第一線上面你就要告訴我們現在目前我們台灣要推廣特別是教英文的教育你們到底出了哪一些的問題我們來看看他們的這些政策你覺得做得到嗎你說在第16頁你是寫的積極建構於英文國文\n\n15\n00:05:35,765 --> 00:06:00,017\n本土語言之三項課程之外的其他的領域你還告訴我們要落實中小學才全英語的教課你這個16月所講的要用英語教藝術英語教體育英語教數學有可能嗎部長我們現在距離2030年只剩下6年的時間你認為我們現在有辦法做到這一些事情嗎如果沒有辦法你是執行者你要給賴總統什麼樣的建議啊\n\n16\n00:06:01,892 --> 00:06:26,083\n我想謝謝委員的一個關心大家都肯定雙贏的一個教育在人才培育是重要的但是我也同意我們怎麼樣針對過去的一個政策做滾動式的修正這個2030年看起來以現在來看它確實包含失資或者偏城鄉的一個它是有落差的它是有問題的它根本做不到而且部長你剛點出來的失資\n\n17\n00:06:28,404 --> 00:06:31,406\n777%的縣市根本就是本國的獅子不一樣嘛然後呢你知道最大的一個問題是什麼因為我們雙語政策在108課綱上路之後才中間跳出來的配合那時候行政院長特別提到的他根本不在我們的課綱的規劃的表定的規劃上面嘛你突然冒出來\n\n18\n00:06:46,796 --> 00:07:09,130\n你覺得以既有的十年大計的這個課綱當中你怎麼樣來落實你怎麼跟課綱來做一個並存我覺得這是個很大的問題而且我想在場的人都知道永遠要教育部比補貼人力私自部主英語教育是你師父領進門學生要有十足的動機不要動不動有老師教有課程牌你再去學英文這是永遠不夠部長你同意吧\n\n19\n00:07:09,710 --> 00:07:20,913\n那目前我們整個教育的一個現場裏面根本沒有讓孩子可以有自主學習目前有那麼多的平台他可以自主去學習這點還是沒有辦法做到我們有很多輔助的工具就是整個課程的一個教法完全沒有辦法而且呢你看你現在把這個政大我還特別給你提到政大中正很多頂大的他的英英檢的畢業門檻都取消這是大學裏面自己做決定的但是他們一向的認為說終極檢定完全不妨礙成為頂大學生該具備的\n\n20\n00:07:39,518 --> 00:07:39,639\n部長,我說得對嗎?\n\n21\n00:07:58,598 --> 00:08:05,623\n你要教體育你要教藝術英文要中級檢定中級檢定就表示英文就好嘛現在所有中級檢定英文過的我不相信他英文可以講得好還可以用英文來發音來教學生這個真是完全政策上面部長你真的要好好的徹底你剛剛提到了你要徹底聽到第一線老師的聲音目前整個制度完全亂的跑了只不過是因為賴總統提出的而且100億他完全沒有考慮到永遠怎麼補永遠怎麼貼是不夠的\n\n22\n00:08:26,596 --> 00:08:26,837\n您同意嗎?\n\n23\n00:08:34,735 --> 00:09:03,555\n應該說我們來努力我們也看到地方政府確實在教師徵是出現了一些我們不希望的一個這個教師徵選的一個方式本來就是部長我跟你說了為了各大學裡面也常常都是這樣的連像教職人員為了配合教育部的這種什麼雙語然後要讓他們的卓越計畫可以寫得很好深耕計畫寫得好還跟你報告所有的這個教職員工說實在的英語畢業都比一般人來得更容易進去為什麼因為他都有英文門檻\n\n24\n00:09:04,275 --> 00:09:18,502\n所以我們英文門檻不是這樣子的要變成雙語國家不是這樣做的啦這個不可能的啦我在國外留學那麼多也不是因為透過這個方法就有辦法讓自己的英文變得很好了部長所以我強力的要求你真的應該開一個有關於雙語政策的國事會議真的好好地聽所有的教育團體第一線的老師到底怎麼樣來看待這件事情\n\n25\n00:09:25,565 --> 00:09:44,193\n這個是你最快時間能夠了解目前英語雙語教育政策最好我還特別給你打包票2030年賴總統的雙語教育絕對沒有辦法達到因為只有6年的時間你有太多事情要補足了最後我想我要就較於你剛剛所提到的大家都會關心陸生來台因為我自己在大學教書我很清楚\n\n26\n00:09:44,633 --> 00:09:49,577\n這個也的確是你在書面報告當中你沒有提到有關陸生的這個部分你剛才已經承認這可能是你們太忙疏失了但我要告訴部長一個數據112年這個陸生學士班已經快接近清零的階段了我們現在從頭到尾加在一起說實在的這個連續四年停招你如果要在明年開放的話我覺得還有一大段路的要走因為整個學士班而且呢\n\n27\n00:10:13,775 --> 00:10:33,960\n目前為止研修生大概只剩下2500人520之後可能會更加的慘烈這可能要拿出非常多的一個策略跟一個方法而且我自己在大學裡面我說實在我看到我的研究生其實來自一些大陸的我根本不管他是來自哪裡可是成果相當的不錯但是我要找他當研究助理想要付獎學金都沒有機會那是因為我們的政策部長你覺得這樣公平嗎\n\n28\n00:10:37,803 --> 00:11:05,635\n跟委員報告事實上我們現在是可以擔任學校的也可以領獎學金也可以擔任我是覺得像學校的公讀這些東西我覺得是不要去管目前是被允許的我們有很多地方是跟一般的港澳學生比起來其實陸生他們一些條件上還是會被限縮的這還是有被限縮的我沒有特別幫他們講但是我覺得用人為財學生有意願到台灣來做一個學習應該給他更公平的機會因為我自己說要準時所以我一定要\n\n29\n00:11:18,797 --> 00:11:22,960\n現在的這個國科會的主委吳承文就是當年清大的副校長他那個時候就完全覺得目前講起來還是覺得委屈啊因為你被抹紅嘛被認為到現在這個寒蟬相應目前為止還是有那目前為止呢一個月來根本不到一個學者他們認為官方卡得很兇我只問最後一句話目前來說的話鄭部長你的態度你會用滲透跟統戰的觀點來看待兩岸的學術交流嗎\n\n30\n00:11:46,803 --> 00:11:49,724\n我們都很清楚學術就在專業上來做一個討論可是現在完完全全變一個非常單純的一個事件只要跟對岸有任何的一個關聯度的話大家就用非常多的不同的方法\n\n31\n00:12:11,593 --> 00:12:12,854\n謝謝委員的一個指教我想這個方向是不用質疑的好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4113\t6254\t謝謝主席。我們請鄭部長。好,請鄭部長。好,部長好。來,部長。我想在你之前,歷任教育部長當中,杜政聖可以說是我們認為政治性格是最強烈的。而且他爭議的非常的大。我們回想過去他所對於教育做的政策當中,大概就是他把台灣的地圖倒過來看。\n29480\t56596\t﹗\n56716\t61536\t部長你是不是可以承諾絕對不會把你個人的意識形態帶到教育\n63097\t87665\t我想身為一個教育人跟委員報告我只關心台灣的教育怎麼更好然後怎麼樣從專業我一直從過去一路以來在談教育的時候在談人才培育只有從專業我也特別在這一次在上個禮拜在跟我們師處這個聽這個業務簡報的時候所有的東西一定要找對的人然後回到\n89326\t107077\t我希望部長就是能夠是如此的就是以教育為一個本業不要有太多政治的一個立場為什麼呢因為就誠如剛剛洪孟凱委員提到的當初的卡管案真的是讓我們的高教受到非常嚴重的傷害那部長你是說百分之百願意捍衛大學的自主\n108188\t126755\t你絕對是捍衛大學的自主因為非常的簡單因為我們在2018年7月的時候曾經有14個那時候是現任的公立大學成立了全國大學自主聯盟他們願意站出來痛批教育部來破壞大學自主所以很多人願意站出來聲援管中你\n127615\t141001\t所以這件事情呢其實我必須要說剛剛洪孟凱特別提到的周志英他也是我政大的學姐所以你也是我政大的學長他是在幫你他在幫你你雖然說你不負記憶但是他只是告訴你說你當年沒有站出來但是你私下還是認為這個教育部這樣的一個涉入大學是不對的所以你應該謝謝他嘛對不對部長\n152714\t157479\t教育部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況：邀請教育部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況．\n175124\t201584\t這是我的承諾這是你的承諾很好我們接下來開始討論一下大家非常關切的一個雙語教育因為我們的賴總統他是目標是在2030年時候呢他要讓台灣變成雙語的國家那他也花了100億但是呢部長你也知道嘛雙語的是亂象重生越生再到但是賴總統還是質疑這個他的個性是非常的關心非常的new那你在中山大學是非常配合政府的雙語的政策\n202806\t203570\t那你真的認為2030台灣可以變成雙語國家嗎?\n208749\t237594\t我覺得議員的一個學習特別要成為一個官方的議員他不是那麼容易所以2030年我覺得在整個政策就是說如何讓我們的新世代年輕人能夠有國際這個直接能夠跟國際接軌的這些不管從產業或者移動的能力我想那個方向是是正確的但是他變成2030年我也同意主席所講你我我們都很清楚他可能要有\n238234\t253251\t﹏﹏\n253771\t278061\t時間恰在2030年因為目前來說的話真的是部長你應該很清楚太多學者專家包括高教包括去外語學院包括英文系的這樣的一個背景出身的人他說真的是這麼樣的一個政策啊政策完全沒有經過思考完全是做出非常到著火入魔而且雙語教育真的會成為國王的新衣啊然後呢我很驚訝的這個目前為止我們去年9月這個賴總統啊他特別表示\n283103\t283823\t拜託幫我解釋一下\n299974\t299994\t部長．\n314994\t334644\t必須要以你像是教育部長你是執行者你就要特別的去跟賴總統來建議你站在第一線上面你就要告訴我們現在目前我們台灣要推廣特別是教英文的教育你們到底出了哪一些的問題我們來看看他們的這些政策你覺得做得到嗎你說在第16頁你是寫的積極建構於英文國文\n335765\t360017\t本土語言之三項課程之外的其他的領域你還告訴我們要落實中小學才全英語的教課你這個16月所講的要用英語教藝術英語教體育英語教數學有可能嗎部長我們現在距離2030年只剩下6年的時間你認為我們現在有辦法做到這一些事情嗎如果沒有辦法你是執行者你要給賴總統什麼樣的建議啊\n361892\t386083\t我想謝謝委員的一個關心大家都肯定雙贏的一個教育在人才培育是重要的但是我也同意我們怎麼樣針對過去的一個政策做滾動式的修正這個2030年看起來以現在來看它確實包含失資或者偏城鄉的一個它是有落差的它是有問題的它根本做不到而且部長你剛點出來的失資\n388404\t391406\t777%的縣市根本就是本國的獅子不一樣嘛然後呢你知道最大的一個問題是什麼因為我們雙語政策在108課綱上路之後才中間跳出來的配合那時候行政院長特別提到的他根本不在我們的課綱的規劃的表定的規劃上面嘛你突然冒出來\n406796\t429130\t你覺得以既有的十年大計的這個課綱當中你怎麼樣來落實你怎麼跟課綱來做一個並存我覺得這是個很大的問題而且我想在場的人都知道永遠要教育部比補貼人力私自部主英語教育是你師父領進門學生要有十足的動機不要動不動有老師教有課程牌你再去學英文這是永遠不夠部長你同意吧\n429710\t440913\t那目前我們整個教育的一個現場裏面根本沒有讓孩子可以有自主學習目前有那麼多的平台他可以自主去學習這點還是沒有辦法做到我們有很多輔助的工具就是整個課程的一個教法完全沒有辦法而且呢你看你現在把這個政大我還特別給你提到政大中正很多頂大的他的英英檢的畢業門檻都取消這是大學裏面自己做決定的但是他們一向的認為說終極檢定完全不妨礙成為頂大學生該具備的\n459518\t459639\t部長,我說得對嗎?\n478598\t485623\t你要教體育 你要教藝術 英文要中級檢定 中級檢定就表示英文就好嘛 現在所有中級檢定英文過的 我不相信他英文可以講得好 還可以用英文來發音來教學生 這個真是完全政策上面 部長你真的要好好的徹底 你剛剛提到了 你要徹底聽到第一線老師的聲音 目前整個制度完全亂的跑了 只不過是因為賴總統提出的 而且100億 他完全沒有考慮到 永遠怎麼補永遠怎麼貼是不夠的\n506596\t506837\t您同意嗎?\n514735\t543555\t應該說我們來努力我們也看到地方政府確實在教師徵是出現了一些我們不希望的一個這個教師徵選的一個方式本來就是部長我跟你說了為了各大學裡面也常常都是這樣的連像教職人員為了配合教育部的這種什麼雙語然後要讓他們的卓越計畫可以寫得很好深耕計畫寫得好還跟你報告所有的這個教職員工說實在的英語畢業都比一般人來得更容易進去為什麼因為他都有英文門檻\n544275\t558502\t所以我們英文門檻不是這樣子的要變成雙語國家不是這樣做的啦這個不可能的啦我在國外留學那麼多也不是因為透過這個方法就有辦法讓自己的英文變得很好了部長所以我強力的要求你真的應該開一個有關於雙語政策的國事會議真的好好地聽所有的教育團體第一線的老師到底怎麼樣來看待這件事情\n565565\t584193\t這個是你最快時間能夠了解目前英語雙語教育政策最好我還特別給你打包票2030年賴總統的雙語教育絕對沒有辦法達到因為只有6年的時間你有太多事情要補足了最後我想我要就較於你剛剛所提到的大家都會關心陸生來台因為我自己在大學教書我很清楚\n584633\t589577\t這個也的確是你在書面報告當中你沒有提到有關陸生的這個部分你剛才已經承認這可能是你們太忙疏失了但我要告訴部長一個數據112年這個陸生學士班已經快接近清零的階段了我們現在從頭到尾加在一起說實在的這個連續四年停招你如果要在明年開放的話我覺得還有一大段路的要走因為整個學士班而且呢\n613775\t633960\t目前為止研修生大概只剩下2500人520之後可能會更加的慘烈這可能要拿出非常多的一個策略跟一個方法而且我自己在大學裡面我說實在我看到我的研究生其實來自一些大陸的我根本不管他是來自哪裡可是成果相當的不錯但是我要找他當研究助理想要付獎學金都沒有機會那是因為我們的政策部長你覺得這樣公平嗎\n637803\t665635\t跟委員報告事實上我們現在是可以擔任學校的也可以領獎學金也可以擔任我是覺得像學校的公讀這些東西我覺得是不要去管目前是被允許的我們有很多地方是跟一般的港澳學生比起來其實陸生他們一些條件上還是會被限縮的這還是有被限縮的我沒有特別幫他們講但是我覺得用人為財學生有意願到台灣來做一個學習應該給他更公平的機會因為我自己說要準時所以我一定要\n666015\t678541\t﹗﹗\n678797\t682960\t現在的這個國科會的主委吳承文就是當年清大的副校長他那個時候就完全覺得目前講起來還是覺得委屈啊因為你被抹紅嘛被認為到現在這個寒蟬相應目前為止還是有那目前為止呢一個月來根本不到一個學者他們認為官方卡得很兇我只問最後一句話目前來說的話鄭部長你的態度你會用滲透跟統戰的觀點來看待兩岸的學術交流嗎\n706803\t709724\t我們都很清楚學術就在專業上來做一個討論可是現在完完全全變一個非常單純的一個事件只要跟對岸有任何的一個關聯度的話大家就用非常多的不同的方法\n731593\t732854\t謝謝委員的一個指教我想這個方向是不用質疑的好 謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席。我們請鄭部長。好,請鄭部長。好,部長好。來,部長。我想在你之前,歷任教育部長當中,杜政聖可以說是我們認為政治性格是最強烈的。而且他爭議的非常的大。我們回想過去他所對於教育做的政策當中,大概就是他把台灣的地圖倒過來看。\n﹗\n部長你是不是可以承諾絕對不會把你個人的意識形態帶到教育\n我想身為一個教育人跟委員報告我只關心台灣的教育怎麼更好然後怎麼樣從專業我一直從過去一路以來在談教育的時候在談人才培育只有從專業我也特別在這一次在上個禮拜在跟我們師處這個聽這個業務簡報的時候所有的東西一定要找對的人然後回到\n我希望部長就是能夠是如此的就是以教育為一個本業不要有太多政治的一個立場為什麼呢因為就誠如剛剛洪孟凱委員提到的當初的卡管案真的是讓我們的高教受到非常嚴重的傷害那部長你是說百分之百願意捍衛大學的自主\n你絕對是捍衛大學的自主因為非常的簡單因為我們在2018年7月的時候曾經有14個那時候是現任的公立大學成立了全國大學自主聯盟他們願意站出來痛批教育部來破壞大學自主所以很多人願意站出來聲援管中你\n所以這件事情呢其實我必須要說剛剛洪孟凱特別提到的周志英他也是我政大的學姐所以你也是我政大的學長他是在幫你他在幫你你雖然說你不負記憶但是他只是告訴你說你當年沒有站出來但是你私下還是認為這個教育部這樣的一個涉入大學是不對的所以你應該謝謝他嘛對不對部長\n教育部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況：邀請教育部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況．\n這是我的承諾這是你的承諾很好我們接下來開始討論一下大家非常關切的一個雙語教育因為我們的賴總統他是目標是在2030年時候呢他要讓台灣變成雙語的國家那他也花了100億但是呢部長你也知道嘛雙語的是亂象重生越生再到但是賴總統還是質疑這個他的個性是非常的關心非常的new那你在中山大學是非常配合政府的雙語的政策\n那你真的認為2030台灣可以變成雙語國家嗎?\n我覺得議員的一個學習特別要成為一個官方的議員他不是那麼容易所以2030年我覺得在整個政策就是說如何讓我們的新世代年輕人能夠有國際這個直接能夠跟國際接軌的這些不管從產業或者移動的能力我想那個方向是是正確的但是他變成2030年我也同意主席所講你我我們都很清楚他可能要有\n﹏﹏\n時間恰在2030年因為目前來說的話真的是部長你應該很清楚太多學者專家包括高教包括去外語學院包括英文系的這樣的一個背景出身的人他說真的是這麼樣的一個政策啊政策完全沒有經過思考完全是做出非常到著火入魔而且雙語教育真的會成為國王的新衣啊然後呢我很驚訝的這個目前為止我們去年9月這個賴總統啊他特別表示\n拜託幫我解釋一下\n部長．\n必須要以你像是教育部長你是執行者你就要特別的去跟賴總統來建議你站在第一線上面你就要告訴我們現在目前我們台灣要推廣特別是教英文的教育你們到底出了哪一些的問題我們來看看他們的這些政策你覺得做得到嗎你說在第16頁你是寫的積極建構於英文國文\n本土語言之三項課程之外的其他的領域你還告訴我們要落實中小學才全英語的教課你這個16月所講的要用英語教藝術英語教體育英語教數學有可能嗎部長我們現在距離2030年只剩下6年的時間你認為我們現在有辦法做到這一些事情嗎如果沒有辦法你是執行者你要給賴總統什麼樣的建議啊\n我想謝謝委員的一個關心大家都肯定雙贏的一個教育在人才培育是重要的但是我也同意我們怎麼樣針對過去的一個政策做滾動式的修正這個2030年看起來以現在來看它確實包含失資或者偏城鄉的一個它是有落差的它是有問題的它根本做不到而且部長你剛點出來的失資\n777%的縣市根本就是本國的獅子不一樣嘛然後呢你知道最大的一個問題是什麼因為我們雙語政策在108課綱上路之後才中間跳出來的配合那時候行政院長特別提到的他根本不在我們的課綱的規劃的表定的規劃上面嘛你突然冒出來\n你覺得以既有的十年大計的這個課綱當中你怎麼樣來落實你怎麼跟課綱來做一個並存我覺得這是個很大的問題而且我想在場的人都知道永遠要教育部比補貼人力私自部主英語教育是你師父領進門學生要有十足的動機不要動不動有老師教有課程牌你再去學英文這是永遠不夠部長你同意吧\n那目前我們整個教育的一個現場裏面根本沒有讓孩子可以有自主學習目前有那麼多的平台他可以自主去學習這點還是沒有辦法做到我們有很多輔助的工具就是整個課程的一個教法完全沒有辦法而且呢你看你現在把這個政大我還特別給你提到政大中正很多頂大的他的英英檢的畢業門檻都取消這是大學裏面自己做決定的但是他們一向的認為說終極檢定完全不妨礙成為頂大學生該具備的\n部長,我說得對嗎?\n你要教體育 你要教藝術 英文要中級檢定 中級檢定就表示英文就好嘛 現在所有中級檢定英文過的 我不相信他英文可以講得好 還可以用英文來發音來教學生 這個真是完全政策上面 部長你真的要好好的徹底 你剛剛提到了 你要徹底聽到第一線老師的聲音 目前整個制度完全亂的跑了 只不過是因為賴總統提出的 而且100億 他完全沒有考慮到 永遠怎麼補永遠怎麼貼是不夠的\n您同意嗎?\n應該說我們來努力我們也看到地方政府確實在教師徵是出現了一些我們不希望的一個這個教師徵選的一個方式本來就是部長我跟你說了為了各大學裡面也常常都是這樣的連像教職人員為了配合教育部的這種什麼雙語然後要讓他們的卓越計畫可以寫得很好深耕計畫寫得好還跟你報告所有的這個教職員工說實在的英語畢業都比一般人來得更容易進去為什麼因為他都有英文門檻\n所以我們英文門檻不是這樣子的要變成雙語國家不是這樣做的啦這個不可能的啦我在國外留學那麼多也不是因為透過這個方法就有辦法讓自己的英文變得很好了部長所以我強力的要求你真的應該開一個有關於雙語政策的國事會議真的好好地聽所有的教育團體第一線的老師到底怎麼樣來看待這件事情\n這個是你最快時間能夠了解目前英語雙語教育政策最好我還特別給你打包票2030年賴總統的雙語教育絕對沒有辦法達到因為只有6年的時間你有太多事情要補足了最後我想我要就較於你剛剛所提到的大家都會關心陸生來台因為我自己在大學教書我很清楚\n這個也的確是你在書面報告當中你沒有提到有關陸生的這個部分你剛才已經承認這可能是你們太忙疏失了但我要告訴部長一個數據112年這個陸生學士班已經快接近清零的階段了我們現在從頭到尾加在一起說實在的這個連續四年停招你如果要在明年開放的話我覺得還有一大段路的要走因為整個學士班而且呢\n目前為止研修生大概只剩下2500人520之後可能會更加的慘烈這可能要拿出非常多的一個策略跟一個方法而且我自己在大學裡面我說實在我看到我的研究生其實來自一些大陸的我根本不管他是來自哪裡可是成果相當的不錯但是我要找他當研究助理想要付獎學金都沒有機會那是因為我們的政策部長你覺得這樣公平嗎\n跟委員報告事實上我們現在是可以擔任學校的也可以領獎學金也可以擔任我是覺得像學校的公讀這些東西我覺得是不要去管目前是被允許的我們有很多地方是跟一般的港澳學生比起來其實陸生他們一些條件上還是會被限縮的這還是有被限縮的我沒有特別幫他們講但是我覺得用人為財學生有意願到台灣來做一個學習應該給他更公平的機會因為我自己說要準時所以我一定要\n﹗﹗\n現在的這個國科會的主委吳承文就是當年清大的副校長他那個時候就完全覺得目前講起來還是覺得委屈啊因為你被抹紅嘛被認為到現在這個寒蟬相應目前為止還是有那目前為止呢一個月來根本不到一個學者他們認為官方卡得很兇我只問最後一句話目前來說的話鄭部長你的態度你會用滲透跟統戰的觀點來看待兩岸的學術交流嗎\n我們都很清楚學術就在專業上來做一個討論可是現在完完全全變一個非常單純的一個事件只要跟對岸有任何的一個關聯度的話大家就用非常多的不同的方法\n謝謝委員的一個指教我想這個方向是不用質疑的好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.113 --> 00:06.254\n謝謝主席。我們請鄭部長。好,請鄭部長。好,部長好。來,部長。我想在你之前,歷任教育部長當中,杜政聖可以說是我們認為政治性格是最強烈的。而且他爭議的非常的大。我們回想過去他所對於教育做的政策當中,大概就是他把台灣的地圖倒過來看。\n\n00:56.716 --> 01:01.536\n部長你是不是可以承諾絕對不會把你個人的意識形態帶到教育\n\n01:03.097 --> 01:27.665\n我想身為一個教育人跟委員報告我只關心台灣的教育怎麼更好然後怎麼樣從專業我一直從過去一路以來在談教育的時候在談人才培育只有從專業我也特別在這一次在上個禮拜在跟我們師處這個聽這個業務簡報的時候所有的東西一定要找對的人然後回到\n\n01:29.326 --> 01:47.077\n我希望部長就是能夠是如此的就是以教育為一個本業不要有太多政治的一個立場為什麼呢因為就誠如剛剛洪孟凱委員提到的當初的卡管案真的是讓我們的高教受到非常嚴重的傷害那部長你是說百分之百願意捍衛大學的自主\n\n01:48.188 --> 02:06.755\n你絕對是捍衛大學的自主因為非常的簡單因為我們在2018年7月的時候曾經有14個那時候是現任的公立大學成立了全國大學自主聯盟他們願意站出來痛批教育部來破壞大學自主所以很多人願意站出來聲援管中你\n\n02:07.615 --> 02:21.001\n所以這件事情呢其實我必須要說剛剛洪孟凱特別提到的周志英他也是我政大的學姐所以你也是我政大的學長他是在幫你他在幫你你雖然說你不負記憶但是他只是告訴你說你當年沒有站出來但是你私下還是認為這個教育部這樣的一個涉入大學是不對的所以你應該謝謝他嘛對不對部長\n\n02:32.714 --> 02:37.479\n教育部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況：邀請教育部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況．\n\n02:55.124 --> 03:21.584\n這是我的承諾這是你的承諾很好我們接下來開始討論一下大家非常關切的一個雙語教育因為我們的賴總統他是目標是在2030年時候呢他要讓台灣變成雙語的國家那他也花了100億但是呢部長你也知道嘛雙語的是亂象重生越生再到但是賴總統還是質疑這個他的個性是非常的關心非常的new那你在中山大學是非常配合政府的雙語的政策\n\n03:22.806 --> 03:23.570\n那你真的認為2030台灣可以變成雙語國家嗎?\n\n03:28.749 --> 03:57.594\n我覺得議員的一個學習特別要成為一個官方的議員他不是那麼容易所以2030年我覺得在整個政策就是說如何讓我們的新世代年輕人能夠有國際這個直接能夠跟國際接軌的這些不管從產業或者移動的能力我想那個方向是是正確的但是他變成2030年我也同意主席所講你我我們都很清楚他可能要有\n\n04:13.771 --> 04:38.061\n時間恰在2030年因為目前來說的話真的是部長你應該很清楚太多學者專家包括高教包括去外語學院包括英文系的這樣的一個背景出身的人他說真的是這麼樣的一個政策啊政策完全沒有經過思考完全是做出非常到著火入魔而且雙語教育真的會成為國王的新衣啊然後呢我很驚訝的這個目前為止我們去年9月這個賴總統啊他特別表示\n\n04:43.103 --> 04:43.823\n拜託幫我解釋一下\n\n04:59.974 --> 04:59.994\n部長．\n\n05:14.994 --> 05:34.644\n必須要以你像是教育部長你是執行者你就要特別的去跟賴總統來建議你站在第一線上面你就要告訴我們現在目前我們台灣要推廣特別是教英文的教育你們到底出了哪一些的問題我們來看看他們的這些政策你覺得做得到嗎你說在第16頁你是寫的積極建構於英文國文\n\n05:35.765 --> 06:00.017\n本土語言之三項課程之外的其他的領域你還告訴我們要落實中小學才全英語的教課你這個16月所講的要用英語教藝術英語教體育英語教數學有可能嗎部長我們現在距離2030年只剩下6年的時間你認為我們現在有辦法做到這一些事情嗎如果沒有辦法你是執行者你要給賴總統什麼樣的建議啊\n\n06:01.892 --> 06:26.083\n我想謝謝委員的一個關心大家都肯定雙贏的一個教育在人才培育是重要的但是我也同意我們怎麼樣針對過去的一個政策做滾動式的修正這個2030年看起來以現在來看它確實包含失資或者偏城鄉的一個它是有落差的它是有問題的它根本做不到而且部長你剛點出來的失資\n\n06:28.404 --> 06:31.406\n777%的縣市根本就是本國的獅子不一樣嘛然後呢你知道最大的一個問題是什麼因為我們雙語政策在108課綱上路之後才中間跳出來的配合那時候行政院長特別提到的他根本不在我們的課綱的規劃的表定的規劃上面嘛你突然冒出來\n\n06:46.796 --> 07:09.130\n你覺得以既有的十年大計的這個課綱當中你怎麼樣來落實你怎麼跟課綱來做一個並存我覺得這是個很大的問題而且我想在場的人都知道永遠要教育部比補貼人力私自部主英語教育是你師父領進門學生要有十足的動機不要動不動有老師教有課程牌你再去學英文這是永遠不夠部長你同意吧\n\n07:09.710 --> 07:20.913\n那目前我們整個教育的一個現場裏面根本沒有讓孩子可以有自主學習目前有那麼多的平台他可以自主去學習這點還是沒有辦法做到我們有很多輔助的工具就是整個課程的一個教法完全沒有辦法而且呢你看你現在把這個政大我還特別給你提到政大中正很多頂大的他的英英檢的畢業門檻都取消這是大學裏面自己做決定的但是他們一向的認為說終極檢定完全不妨礙成為頂大學生該具備的\n\n07:39.518 --> 07:39.639\n部長,我說得對嗎?\n\n07:58.598 --> 08:05.623\n你要教體育你要教藝術英文要中級檢定中級檢定就表示英文就好嘛現在所有中級檢定英文過的我不相信他英文可以講得好還可以用英文來發音來教學生這個真是完全政策上面部長你真的要好好的徹底你剛剛提到了你要徹底聽到第一線老師的聲音目前整個制度完全亂的跑了只不過是因為賴總統提出的而且100億他完全沒有考慮到永遠怎麼補永遠怎麼貼是不夠的\n\n08:26.596 --> 08:26.837\n您同意嗎?\n\n08:34.735 --> 09:03.555\n應該說我們來努力我們也看到地方政府確實在教師徵是出現了一些我們不希望的一個這個教師徵選的一個方式本來就是部長我跟你說了為了各大學裡面也常常都是這樣的連像教職人員為了配合教育部的這種什麼雙語然後要讓他們的卓越計畫可以寫得很好深耕計畫寫得好還跟你報告所有的這個教職員工說實在的英語畢業都比一般人來得更容易進去為什麼因為他都有英文門檻\n\n09:04.275 --> 09:18.502\n所以我們英文門檻不是這樣子的要變成雙語國家不是這樣做的啦這個不可能的啦我在國外留學那麼多也不是因為透過這個方法就有辦法讓自己的英文變得很好了部長所以我強力的要求你真的應該開一個有關於雙語政策的國事會議真的好好地聽所有的教育團體第一線的老師到底怎麼樣來看待這件事情\n\n09:25.565 --> 09:44.193\n這個是你最快時間能夠了解目前英語雙語教育政策最好我還特別給你打包票2030年賴總統的雙語教育絕對沒有辦法達到因為只有6年的時間你有太多事情要補足了最後我想我要就較於你剛剛所提到的大家都會關心陸生來台因為我自己在大學教書我很清楚\n\n09:44.633 --> 09:49.577\n這個也的確是你在書面報告當中你沒有提到有關陸生的這個部分你剛才已經承認這可能是你們太忙疏失了但我要告訴部長一個數據112年這個陸生學士班已經快接近清零的階段了我們現在從頭到尾加在一起說實在的這個連續四年停招你如果要在明年開放的話我覺得還有一大段路的要走因為整個學士班而且呢\n\n10:13.775 --> 10:33.960\n目前為止研修生大概只剩下2500人520之後可能會更加的慘烈這可能要拿出非常多的一個策略跟一個方法而且我自己在大學裡面我說實在我看到我的研究生其實來自一些大陸的我根本不管他是來自哪裡可是成果相當的不錯但是我要找他當研究助理想要付獎學金都沒有機會那是因為我們的政策部長你覺得這樣公平嗎\n\n10:37.803 --> 11:05.635\n跟委員報告事實上我們現在是可以擔任學校的也可以領獎學金也可以擔任我是覺得像學校的公讀這些東西我覺得是不要去管目前是被允許的我們有很多地方是跟一般的港澳學生比起來其實陸生他們一些條件上還是會被限縮的這還是有被限縮的我沒有特別幫他們講但是我覺得用人為財學生有意願到台灣來做一個學習應該給他更公平的機會因為我自己說要準時所以我一定要\n\n11:18.797 --> 11:22.960\n現在的這個國科會的主委吳承文就是當年清大的副校長他那個時候就完全覺得目前講起來還是覺得委屈啊因為你被抹紅嘛被認為到現在這個寒蟬相應目前為止還是有那目前為止呢一個月來根本不到一個學者他們認為官方卡得很兇我只問最後一句話目前來說的話鄭部長你的態度你會用滲透跟統戰的觀點來看待兩岸的學術交流嗎\n\n11:46.803 --> 11:49.724\n我們都很清楚學術就在專業上來做一個討論可是現在完完全全變一個非常單純的一個事件只要跟對岸有任何的一個關聯度的話大家就用非常多的不同的方法\n\n12:11.593 --> 12:12.854\n謝謝委員的一個指教我想這個方向是不用質疑的好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.113,"end":6.254,"text":"謝謝主席。我們請鄭部長。好,請鄭部長。好,部長好。來,部長。我想在你之前,歷任教育部長當中,杜政聖可以說是我們認為政治性格是最強烈的。而且他爭議的非常的大。我們回想過去他所對於教育做的政策當中,大概就是他把台灣的地圖倒過來看。"},{"start":29.48,"end":56.596,"text":"﹗"},{"start":56.716,"end":61.536,"text":"部長你是不是可以承諾絕對不會把你個人的意識形態帶到教育"},{"start":63.097,"end":87.665,"text":"我想身為一個教育人跟委員報告我只關心台灣的教育怎麼更好然後怎麼樣從專業我一直從過去一路以來在談教育的時候在談人才培育只有從專業我也特別在這一次在上個禮拜在跟我們師處這個聽這個業務簡報的時候所有的東西一定要找對的人然後回到"},{"start":89.326,"end":107.077,"text":"我希望部長就是能夠是如此的就是以教育為一個本業不要有太多政治的一個立場為什麼呢因為就誠如剛剛洪孟凱委員提到的當初的卡管案真的是讓我們的高教受到非常嚴重的傷害那部長你是說百分之百願意捍衛大學的自主"},{"start":108.188,"end":126.755,"text":"你絕對是捍衛大學的自主因為非常的簡單因為我們在2018年7月的時候曾經有14個那時候是現任的公立大學成立了全國大學自主聯盟他們願意站出來痛批教育部來破壞大學自主所以很多人願意站出來聲援管中你"},{"start":127.615,"end":141.001,"text":"所以這件事情呢其實我必須要說剛剛洪孟凱特別提到的周志英他也是我政大的學姐所以你也是我政大的學長他是在幫你他在幫你你雖然說你不負記憶但是他只是告訴你說你當年沒有站出來但是你私下還是認為這個教育部這樣的一個涉入大學是不對的所以你應該謝謝他嘛對不對部長"},{"start":152.714,"end":157.479,"text":"教育部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況：邀請教育部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況．"},{"start":175.124,"end":201.584,"text":"這是我的承諾這是你的承諾很好我們接下來開始討論一下大家非常關切的一個雙語教育因為我們的賴總統他是目標是在2030年時候呢他要讓台灣變成雙語的國家那他也花了100億但是呢部長你也知道嘛雙語的是亂象重生越生再到但是賴總統還是質疑這個他的個性是非常的關心非常的new那你在中山大學是非常配合政府的雙語的政策"},{"start":202.806,"end":203.57,"text":"那你真的認為2030台灣可以變成雙語國家嗎?"},{"start":208.749,"end":237.594,"text":"我覺得議員的一個學習特別要成為一個官方的議員他不是那麼容易所以2030年我覺得在整個政策就是說如何讓我們的新世代年輕人能夠有國際這個直接能夠跟國際接軌的這些不管從產業或者移動的能力我想那個方向是是正確的但是他變成2030年我也同意主席所講你我我們都很清楚他可能要有"},{"start":238.234,"end":253.251,"text":"﹏﹏"},{"start":253.771,"end":278.061,"text":"時間恰在2030年因為目前來說的話真的是部長你應該很清楚太多學者專家包括高教包括去外語學院包括英文系的這樣的一個背景出身的人他說真的是這麼樣的一個政策啊政策完全沒有經過思考完全是做出非常到著火入魔而且雙語教育真的會成為國王的新衣啊然後呢我很驚訝的這個目前為止我們去年9月這個賴總統啊他特別表示"},{"start":283.103,"end":283.823,"text":"拜託幫我解釋一下"},{"start":299.974,"end":299.994,"text":"部長．"},{"start":314.994,"end":334.644,"text":"必須要以你像是教育部長你是執行者你就要特別的去跟賴總統來建議你站在第一線上面你就要告訴我們現在目前我們台灣要推廣特別是教英文的教育你們到底出了哪一些的問題我們來看看他們的這些政策你覺得做得到嗎你說在第16頁你是寫的積極建構於英文國文"},{"start":335.765,"end":360.017,"text":"本土語言之三項課程之外的其他的領域你還告訴我們要落實中小學才全英語的教課你這個16月所講的要用英語教藝術英語教體育英語教數學有可能嗎部長我們現在距離2030年只剩下6年的時間你認為我們現在有辦法做到這一些事情嗎如果沒有辦法你是執行者你要給賴總統什麼樣的建議啊"},{"start":361.892,"end":386.083,"text":"我想謝謝委員的一個關心大家都肯定雙贏的一個教育在人才培育是重要的但是我也同意我們怎麼樣針對過去的一個政策做滾動式的修正這個2030年看起來以現在來看它確實包含失資或者偏城鄉的一個它是有落差的它是有問題的它根本做不到而且部長你剛點出來的失資"},{"start":388.404,"end":391.406,"text":"777%的縣市根本就是本國的獅子不一樣嘛然後呢你知道最大的一個問題是什麼因為我們雙語政策在108課綱上路之後才中間跳出來的配合那時候行政院長特別提到的他根本不在我們的課綱的規劃的表定的規劃上面嘛你突然冒出來"},{"start":406.796,"end":429.13,"text":"你覺得以既有的十年大計的這個課綱當中你怎麼樣來落實你怎麼跟課綱來做一個並存我覺得這是個很大的問題而且我想在場的人都知道永遠要教育部比補貼人力私自部主英語教育是你師父領進門學生要有十足的動機不要動不動有老師教有課程牌你再去學英文這是永遠不夠部長你同意吧"},{"start":429.71,"end":440.913,"text":"那目前我們整個教育的一個現場裏面根本沒有讓孩子可以有自主學習目前有那麼多的平台他可以自主去學習這點還是沒有辦法做到我們有很多輔助的工具就是整個課程的一個教法完全沒有辦法而且呢你看你現在把這個政大我還特別給你提到政大中正很多頂大的他的英英檢的畢業門檻都取消這是大學裏面自己做決定的但是他們一向的認為說終極檢定完全不妨礙成為頂大學生該具備的"},{"start":459.518,"end":459.639,"text":"部長,我說得對嗎?"},{"start":478.598,"end":485.623,"text":" 你要教體育 你要教藝術 英文要中級檢定 中級檢定就表示英文就好嘛 現在所有中級檢定英文過的 我不相信他英文可以講得好 還可以用英文來發音來教學生 這個真是完全政策上面 部長你真的要好好的徹底 你剛剛提到了 你要徹底聽到第一線老師的聲音 目前整個制度完全亂的跑了 只不過是因為賴總統提出的 而且100億 他完全沒有考慮到 永遠怎麼補永遠怎麼貼是不夠的"},{"start":506.596,"end":506.837,"text":"您同意嗎?"},{"start":514.735,"end":543.555,"text":"應該說我們來努力我們也看到地方政府確實在教師徵是出現了一些我們不希望的一個這個教師徵選的一個方式本來就是部長我跟你說了為了各大學裡面也常常都是這樣的連像教職人員為了配合教育部的這種什麼雙語然後要讓他們的卓越計畫可以寫得很好深耕計畫寫得好還跟你報告所有的這個教職員工說實在的英語畢業都比一般人來得更容易進去為什麼因為他都有英文門檻"},{"start":544.275,"end":558.502,"text":"所以我們英文門檻不是這樣子的要變成雙語國家不是這樣做的啦這個不可能的啦我在國外留學那麼多也不是因為透過這個方法就有辦法讓自己的英文變得很好了部長所以我強力的要求你真的應該開一個有關於雙語政策的國事會議真的好好地聽所有的教育團體第一線的老師到底怎麼樣來看待這件事情"},{"start":565.565,"end":584.193,"text":"這個是你最快時間能夠了解目前英語雙語教育政策最好我還特別給你打包票2030年賴總統的雙語教育絕對沒有辦法達到因為只有6年的時間你有太多事情要補足了最後我想我要就較於你剛剛所提到的大家都會關心陸生來台因為我自己在大學教書我很清楚"},{"start":584.633,"end":589.577,"text":"這個也的確是你在書面報告當中你沒有提到有關陸生的這個部分你剛才已經承認這可能是你們太忙疏失了但我要告訴部長一個數據112年這個陸生學士班已經快接近清零的階段了我們現在從頭到尾加在一起說實在的這個連續四年停招你如果要在明年開放的話我覺得還有一大段路的要走因為整個學士班而且呢"},{"start":613.775,"end":633.96,"text":"目前為止研修生大概只剩下2500人520之後可能會更加的慘烈這可能要拿出非常多的一個策略跟一個方法而且我自己在大學裡面我說實在我看到我的研究生其實來自一些大陸的我根本不管他是來自哪裡可是成果相當的不錯但是我要找他當研究助理想要付獎學金都沒有機會那是因為我們的政策部長你覺得這樣公平嗎"},{"start":637.803,"end":665.635,"text":"跟委員報告事實上我們現在是可以擔任學校的也可以領獎學金也可以擔任我是覺得像學校的公讀這些東西我覺得是不要去管目前是被允許的我們有很多地方是跟一般的港澳學生比起來其實陸生他們一些條件上還是會被限縮的這還是有被限縮的我沒有特別幫他們講但是我覺得用人為財學生有意願到台灣來做一個學習應該給他更公平的機會因為我自己說要準時所以我一定要"},{"start":666.015,"end":678.541,"text":"﹗﹗"},{"start":678.797,"end":682.96,"text":"現在的這個國科會的主委吳承文就是當年清大的副校長他那個時候就完全覺得目前講起來還是覺得委屈啊因為你被抹紅嘛被認為到現在這個寒蟬相應目前為止還是有那目前為止呢一個月來根本不到一個學者他們認為官方卡得很兇我只問最後一句話目前來說的話鄭部長你的態度你會用滲透跟統戰的觀點來看待兩岸的學術交流嗎"},{"start":706.803,"end":709.724,"text":"我們都很清楚學術就在專業上來做一個討論可是現在完完全全變一個非常單純的一個事件只要跟對岸有任何的一個關聯度的話大家就用非常多的不同的方法"},{"start":731.593,"end":732.854,"text":"謝謝委員的一個指教我想這個方向是不用質疑的好 謝謝"}]}}}}