{"id":153016,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153016","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/536b9eee2a0ea5b359cef983ca047ae1e6d49214c7a82f13945ede7791f90b9e471a9116c42a6ddb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳沛憶","委員發言時間":"11:04:34 - 11:18:51","影片長度":"00:14:17","會議時間":"2024-05-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【5月27日及29日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-27","duration":857,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-14"},"end_time":"2024-05-27T11:18:51+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-27T11:04:34+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":445,"blocks":[["吳委員沛憶：（11時4分）謝謝主席，我請鄭部長、張廖次長及葉次長。"],["主席：我們請部長及兩位次長。"],["吳委員沛憶：部長好。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員好。"],["吳委員沛憶：上個禮拜五我們看到很多民眾來到立法院外面，關心國會正在審查的國會擴權法案的修法。其中很多媒體關注的是，現場有很多是高中生，這些高中生的發言，坦白說我自己看到是覺得非常驚艷，我認為高中生的論述能力非常強，因為他們所提出來的觀點跟論述以及事實查核的能力，其實很多都超越不同政黨提出來的說明版本，你可以看得出來他們是自己做功課、自己思考的。不只是臺北的議場外面我們看到高中生，包括彰化、嘉義火車站都有高中生主動出來發起集會，雄中的學生在學校發起了肥皂箱，當中有各種不同的觀點，所以對我來說，這絕對不會是單一政黨的行動。我想請問部長，你有沒有看到我們的高中生在街頭上、在學校，為了我們國家的公共政策站出來論述？"],["鄭部長英耀：確實很多時候，我們看到現在年輕人對國家發展、公共政策的一些關心，事實上真的是比以前有更多的關懷，相當程度上我們是應該給予肯定，表示我們教育在鼓勵獨立思考方面，在追求民主這個部分，事實上也看到年輕人展現了這方面的一些素養。"],["吳委員沛憶：是，事實上公民的思辨能力也是過去教改以來非常重要的一個項目，所以我想這一點要給予肯定。過去在潘文忠部長任內，包括課綱改革的時候，當時部長直接跟學生坐下來對話，就學校裡面的服儀自主等等，都志在提升學生的主體性，行政院也有青諮會，我希望教育部要持續努力以提升學生的自主能力。","所以今天必須跟部長討論的也就是青年基本法，近期教育部才召開了公聽會，其中兩項是我們蒐集到的民間意見，第一點，我們希望在法制面、青年基本法當中明定支持青年的政策參與，另外也希望有更多跟學生直接對話的平臺。首先我要請問部長，青年基本法明定鼓勵青年政策參與，這個方向你是認同的嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：身為民主國家的任何一分子，我相信關心國家政策的發展，這個應該是被鼓勵的，所以青年對公共事務的參與，我想我們應該給予肯定。"],["吳委員沛憶：是，那關於我們跟青年直接對話的平臺，教育部目前有沒有在規劃當中？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，我們現在的網路，很多的管道事實上都可以納入、聽年輕人的聲音，也建立了青年參與政策的一些機制，從中央到地方事實上都有，甚至我們看到地方還有青年發展局，這些正式組織的成立都是希望能夠更加鼓勵年輕人共同關心這一塊土地。"],["吳委員沛憶：當然，因為我們有青發署，所以關於青年事務相關的這些業務跟規劃一直都有，而現在之所以希望能夠制定青年基本法，就是希望針對相關的權利義務以及對象，我們把它明定清楚。例如我今天要直接、具體地提三點建議，第一個，目前教育部的主張，關於青年的年齡定義是18歲至45歲。我的建議是，我們應該要參考聯合國的標準，把它放寬、下修到15歲，尤其我們現在看到高中生對於公共參與有絕對的熱切，也有絕對的能力，所以我希望，既然我們要打開政府跟青年對話的平臺，不要把高中生排除在外。","第二點，我們的政治參與當然有很多形式，過去青輔會時期，當時的主委是現在的副院長鄭麗君，他當時力推的是審議民主。而這幾年我自己在地方議會都看到了很多是參與式預算的實作，行政院也有推動vTaiwan的線上政策等等討論的經驗。所以我要說的是，我們當然有非常多的平臺可以讓青年參與，但是千萬不要讓青年淪為政府的樣板，也就是說，我們必須實質地讓青年的參與、青年的意見可以導入決策的過程，這才叫做賦權，不是開會的時候找個青年代表來簽個名，結果會議結束的結論還是都依照我們部裡、依照我們政府的版本來去做，這個就叫做青年樣板，而不叫做青年政策參與。所以我希望教育部未來在訂定不管是青年國是會議還是相關的機制，務必要把賦權青年參與決策這一項非常重要的要件納入。","第三點就是，我們看到了不管是大學的學生社團還是高中生的學生社團，其實發展都越來越蓬勃，我希望我們也要把社團當做正式教育的一環，但目前我看到教育部在政策上面支持學生社團的政策工具是少之又少。我自己在高中參加景美女中熱舞社的時候就曾經為了辦成發，去外面想辦法打工來支持自己的社團活動。所以這一點我也希望教育部可以跟青年對話，具體地去擬定。","接下來要非常關心的是，我們的體育署要升格為體育部，這不只是賴清德總統競選期間的政見，也是我個人參選立委的時候提出來的政見，尤其是我在臺北市擔任市議員的時候，就注意到我們臺北市運動產業的規模快速增加，以健身房為例，2013年全國只有149間，到2023年已經以幾倍數的成長來到超過900間。這個會有什麼問題？疫情期間大量場館都有紓困的需求，甚至發生很多消費爭議。但是因為過去的地方政府自治條例對於運動場館其實並沒有具體納管，所以產生非常多有爭議、但是政府找不到權責單位去介入、協助調解的問題。所以我想我們看到的是運動產業在臺灣蓬勃並且快速發展，已經到了政府組織改造刻不容緩的時刻！","除了我剛剛講到的場館，像職棒工會、職籃工會、女足工會也先後成立，我想臺灣人可能10年前都很難想像現在我們甚至有2個職籃聯盟，是這麼樣的蓬勃發展！工會參與了工會跟球團之間的權利保障，也涉及選手擔任國手的時候，他跟政府之間的權益保障，所以之前我也常常跟署長在關心職籃工會相關的議題。現在終於來到討論升格的時刻，體育署2011年才成立運動產業組，它是從原來的綜規組改組的。但是我們必須去因應運動產業的蓬勃變化，所以我希望我們在做這個組織改造的時候必須很仔細地把運動產業考量進去！因此我想請問部長，目前對於體育署升格為體育部有沒有一個時間表？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，首先，有關運動產業這個部分，我們的體育署確實有這個規劃，它不排斥在未來的規劃可能會變成一個署或者研究院這樣一個層級，我們目前在體育署這個部分確實也已經有一些初步的規劃。"],["吳委員沛憶：有沒有一個時間表？"],["鄭部長英耀：大概7月會在北、中、南、東舉辦分區座談，也許8月就開始針對這些座談、廣聽社會……"],["吳委員沛憶：所以預計7月份會舉辦座談？"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["吳委員沛憶：這個座談是跟民間團體、相關實務界的人士來座談？"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["吳委員沛憶：這非常重要！過去法定要求文化部舉辦全國文化會議，我認為我們也應該舉辦全國體育會議。部長，我就是要提醒你這一點，升格為體育部我個人固然認為非常重要，但是我認為充分跟實務界討論之後，再去擬定相關的升格規劃更加重要。如果現在有人跟你說你立刻、馬上給我提出修法，立刻要升格，但是不用討論的話，那個人就是在害你！因為沒有討論、不是民主啦！部長！"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員提醒。"],["吳委員沛憶：所以切記我們一定要充分跟民間溝通、討論，看見產業需求、看見選手需求，再來做綜合的相關規劃，可不可以做得到？"],["鄭部長英耀：當然，廣聽民意，然後做出一個更好的升格規劃是我們努力的目標，也一定要這樣來做。"],["吳委員沛憶：再來是我們的體育預算。因為我們副院長昨天也說體育預算應該要增加，我就想要請教張廖次長，因為我知道你過去一直在關心運動發展基金的預算編列。過去運動發展基金的執行率好不容易達到九成，但是收入的決算每次都低估，能不能請問為什麼會這樣子呢？"],["張廖次長萬堅：其實我在擔任立法委員的時候也曾經對基金預算、公務預算的比例提出過建議，當然，現在我在部裡面也會儘量爭取除了基金預算以外，我們的公務預算也能夠年年成長。"],["吳委員沛憶：是！因為預算就是要覈實編列嘛！已經年年都是低估了，所以我希望我們未來要精確地去評估！"],["張廖次長萬堅：其實沒有年年低估啦！從2016到2024年，應該是已經從大概七、八十億的規模成長到一百三十幾億了。因為現在開始在編明年的預算，明年的預算預計也會繼續成長。"],["吳委員沛憶：好。最後我想請教葉次長，因為我個人國小參與了當時410教改的實驗班，我在臺北市議會的時候也推動臺北市實驗教育中心的成立，我知道葉次長說你所辦的第一批非學實驗教育機構已經有學生是大學生了，他們也回來跟你聊天，所以，以實驗教育三法修法之後這些年來的經驗，你認為未來教育部要怎麼樣來支持實驗教育？"],["葉次長丙成：我想實驗教育是臺灣教育一個滿難得的果實，以去年來講，東京都政府派了一群官員來臺灣參訪，就是特別想要來看實驗教育，所以臺灣的實驗教育其實已經做到連日本都在acclaim這件事情。但回過頭來，我覺得這十年下來，確實有一些我覺得我們未來可以再一起努力的目標，舉例來講，實驗教育很多時候最大一個挑戰就是包括空間在內的很多問題，比如說在學校裡面，簽約、租約都是要一年一簽，這對實驗教育是一種非常大的壓力，再比如說數位、資訊這些的support，如果不是一個正常的學校，它要申請這些其實有時候也都會受到一些限制。這個部分我們可以看怎麼來努力。","另外一方面，我覺得實驗教育最重要的一件事情是體制外的教育不是為了要跟體制內教育打對台，事實上在108課綱的很多精神，包括以素養為主的這些教育，其實很多理念跟實驗教育在做的事情是很相通的。所以怎麼樣讓實驗教育跟體制內教育有更多的交流，我覺得對體制內教育是很有幫助的，這也是我覺得我們可以一起來努力的。","最後一點我要提的就是，實驗教育在過去這十年有非常蓬勃的發展，有非常多的實驗教育團體、非常多的實驗教育機構，但是這些機構和團體我覺得要避免，就是裡面坦白講我們看到其實也有一些掛羊頭賣狗肉，假實驗教育之名，但可能行更填鴨之實的，他們可以拿掉很多我們覺得課綱裡面很重要的一些課，反而更著重在升學的填鴨。怎麼樣讓這些不會造成實驗教育被污名化？這也是我覺得未來我們要努力的一個目標，來確保實驗教育的品質。謝謝。"],["吳委員沛憶：好，部長，我必須說我今天相當失望的是在教育部整本報告裡面，我沒有看到你們對實驗教育政策方向的說明。過去我們為什麼要在臺北市、地方政府推動一個中心，就是因為我們發現這個主責、承辦的單位是分成國小、國中、高中，但可能有一所實驗教育機構它就是國小、國中、高中貫串的，所以我希望在我們的部門當中能有一個整體的大腦，可以整體地思考實驗教育推廣的方向，這部分我希望教育部能夠繼續精進。謝謝。"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝吳委員的關心，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝沛憶委員，謝謝部長、次長。","現在休息5分鐘。","休息（11時18分）","繼續開會（11時24分）"],["主席：現在繼續開會。","接下來請陳秀寳委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":342,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-14","speakers":["柯志恩","萬美玲","陳培瑜","洪孟楷","林倩綺","葉元之","郭昱晴","葛如鈞","吳沛憶","陳秀寳","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{\"word\": \"憶\"}, {\"word\": \"憶\"}, {\"word\": \"憶\"}, {\"word\": \"憶\"}, {\"word\": \"憶\"}, {\"word\": \"憶\"}, {\"word\": \"憶\"}, {\"word\": \"憶\"}, {\"word\": \"憶\"}, {\"word\": \"憶\"}, {\"word\": \"憶\"}]}, {\"start\": 466.482, \"end\": 466.502, \"text\": \"﹚吳沛憶\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"﹚\"}, {\"word\": \"吳\"}, {\"word\": \"沛\", \"start\": 466.482, \"end\": 466.502, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"憶\"}]}, {\"start\": 496.28, \"end\": 502.325, \"text\": \"同博的變化所以我希望我們在做組織改造的時候必須要把運動產業要把它很仔細的去考量進去所以說我想請問部長目前對於體育署升格為體育部我們有沒有一個時間表\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 496.28, \"end\": 496.52, \"score\": 0.572}, {\"word\": \"博\", \"start\": 496.52, \"end\": 496.74, \"score\": 0.659}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 496.74, \"end\": 497.301, \"score\": 0.677}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"化\", \"start\": 497.301, \"end\": 497.741, \"score\": 0.764}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 497.741, \"end\": 497.881, \"score\": 0.554}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 497.881, \"end\": 497.902, 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\"score\": 0.019}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 501.545, \"end\": 501.565, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 501.565, \"end\": 501.585, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 501.585, \"end\": 501.605, \"score\": 0.086}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 501.605, \"end\": 501.685, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 501.685, \"end\": 501.705, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 501.705, \"end\": 501.725, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 501.725, \"end\": 501.745, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"育\", \"start\": 501.745, \"end\": 501.765, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 501.765, \"end\": 501.785, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"升\", \"start\": 501.785, \"end\": 501.965, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"格\", \"start\": 501.965, \"end\": 501.985, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"育\", 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, 我 請 鄭 部 長 , 張 亮 次 長 及 葉 次 長 好 , 我 們 請 部 長 及 兩 位 次 長\n\n2\n00:00:19,478 --> 00:00:36,714\n部 長 好 上 個 禮 拜 五 我 們 看 到 很 多 的 民 眾 來 到 立 法 院 外 面 關 心 我 們 國 會 正 在 審 查 的 國 會 擴 權 法 案 的 修 法 那 其 中 呢 很 多 媒 體 在 關 注 的 是 現 場 看 到 了 很 多 是 高 中 生\n\n3\n00:00:37,935 --> 00:00:58,748\n這 些 高 中 生 的 發 言 我 坦 白 說 我 自 己 看 到 是 非 常 的 驚 豔 我 認 為 我 們 的 高 中 生 是 論 述 能 力 非 常 的 強 因 為 他 們 所 提 出 來 的 觀 點 跟 他 的 論 述 以 及 他 事 實 查 核 的 能 力 其 實 很 多 都 超 越 我 們 不 同 政 黨 提 出 來 的 說 明 版 本 你 可 以 看 得 出 來 他 們 是 自 己 做 功 課\n\n4\n00:00:59,488 --> 00:01:26,401\n自 己 去 思 考 的 不 只 是 台 北 的 議 場 外 我 們 看 到 高 中 生 包 括 了 彰 化 嘉 義 火 車 站 都 有 高 中 生 主 動 出 來 發 起 集 會 熊 中 的 學 生 在 學 校 發 起 了 肥 皂 箱 裡 面 是 各 種 不 同 的 觀 點 所 以 對 我 來 說 這 絕 對 不 會 是 單 一 政 黨 的 行 動 我 想 請 問 部 長 你 有 沒 有 看 到 我 們 的 高 中 生 在 街 頭 上 在 學 校 上 為 了 我 們 國 家 的 公 共 政 策 站 出 來 論 述\n\n5\n00:01:28,769 --> 00:01:52,636\n我 想 確 實 很 多 的 時 候 我 們 看 到 我 們 現 在 年 輕 人 對 國 家 發 展 的 一 個 關 心 公 共 政 策 的 一 些 關 心 事 實 上 真 的 是 比 以 前 有 更 多 的 一 些 關 懷 的 心 這 某 種 相 當 程 度 我 們 是 應 該 要 給 肯 定 表 示 我 們 教 育 在 鼓 勵 獨 立 思 考 在 追 求 這 個 民 主\n\n6\n00:01:54,016 --> 00:01:54,036\n﹚ 吳 沛 憶\n\n7\n00:02:14,602 --> 00:02:14,782\n吳 沛 憶 委 員\n\n8\n00:02:30,467 --> 00:02:58,991\n那 所 以 呢 今 天 也 必 須 要 跟 部 長 討 論 的 也 就 是 我 們 的 青 年 基 本 法 青 年 基 本 法 近 期 教 育 部 才 召 開 了 公 聽 會 其 中 兩 項 是 我 們 收 集 到 民 間 的 意 見 第 一 點 就 是 我 們 希 望 在 法 治 裡 面 青 年 基 本 法 來 明 定 是 支 持 青 年 政 策 的 參 與 另 外 也 希 望 要 有 更 多 的 跟 學 生 直 接 對 話 的 平 台 所 以 首 先 我 想 要 請 問 部 長 的 是 我 們 青 年 基 本 法 來 明 定 鼓 勵 青 年 政 策 參 與\n\n9\n00:02:59,956 --> 00:03:01,008\n這 個 方 向 你 是 認 同 的 嗎 ?\n\n10\n00:03:02,688 --> 00:03:03,648\n關 於 我 們 跟 青 年 直 接 來 對 話 的 這 個 平 台 , 教 育 部 目 前 有 沒 有 在 規 劃 當 中 ?\n\n11\n00:03:31,620 --> 00:04:00,123\n我 想 我 們 現 在 事 實 上 這 個 跟 委 員 報 告 我 們 現 在 的 網 路 很 多 的 這 個 管 道 事 實 上 都 是 可 以 來 納 入 這 個 聽 這 個 年 輕 人 的 聲 音 我 也 建 立 了 青 年 參 與 政 策 的 一 些 機 制 從 中 央 到 地 方 事 實 上 都 是 有 的 甚 至 我 們 看 到 地 方 還 有 一 些 青 年 發 展 局 這 些 正 式 的 組 織 的 成 立 都 是 希 望 能 夠 有 更 多 的 鼓 勵 年 輕 人 共 同 關 心 這 一 塊 土 地\n\n12\n00:04:01,224 --> 00:04:24,133\n當 然 因 為 我 們 有 清 法 署 所 以 關 於 青 年 事 務 相 關 的 這 些 業 務 跟 規 劃 一 直 都 是 有 但 現 在 之 所 以 希 望 能 夠 制 定 青 年 基 本 法 就 是 希 望 把 相 關 的 權 利 義 務 以 及 對 象 我 們 把 它 名 定 其 屬 例 如 我 今 天 要 直 接 具 體 的 提 三 點 的 建 議 第 一 個 目 前 我 們 教 育 部 的 主 張 關 於 青 年 的 年 齡 定 義 是 在 1 8 歲 到 4 5 歲\n\n13\n00:04:25,493 --> 00:04:52,440\n我 的 建 議 是 我 們 應 該 要 參 考 聯 合 國 的 標 準 把 它 放 寬 下 修 到 1 5 歲 尤 其 是 我 們 現 在 看 到 高 中 生 對 於 公 共 的 參 與 有 絕 對 的 熱 切 也 有 絕 對 的 能 力 所 以 我 希 望 既 然 我 們 要 去 打 開 政 府 跟 青 年 對 話 的 平 台 不 要 把 高 中 生 排 除 在 之 外 第 二 點 是 我 們 的 政 治 參 與 其 實 當 然 有 很 多 的 形 式 過 去 親 府 會 時 期 當 時 的\n\n14\n00:04:54,500 --> 00:04:59,785\n主 委 是 我 們 現 在 的 副 院 長 鄭 麗 君 他 當 時 力 推 的 是 審 議 民 主 那 這 幾 年 我 自 己 在 地 方 議 會 都 看 到 了 很 多 是 參 與 式 預 算 實 的 實 作 行 政 院 有 推 動 了 V 台 灣 的 現 象 政 策 等 等 討 論 的 經 驗 所 以 我 要 說 的 是 我 們 當 然 有 非 常 多 的 平 台 可 以 讓 青 年 來 參 與 但 是 千 萬 不 要 讓 青 年 淪 為 我 們 政 府 的 樣 板\n\n15\n00:05:19,742 --> 00:05:25,807\n也 就 是 說 青 年 的 參 與 青 年 的 意 見 我 們 必 須 實 質 的 讓 他 去 可 以 導 入 我 們 決 策 的 過 程 這 才 叫 做 父 權 不 是 說 開 會 的 時 候 找 個 青 年 代 表 來 簽 個 名 就 會 議 結 束 的 結 論 還 是 都 是 依 照 我 們 部 裡 依 照 我 們 政 府 的 版 本 來 去 做 那 這 個 就 叫 做 青 年 樣 板 不 叫 做 青 年 政 策 參 與 所 以 我 希 望 教 育 部 未 來 再 訂 定 不 管 是 青 年 國 師 會 議 還 是 相 關 的 機 制 務 必 要 把 父 權\n\n16\n00:05:49,005 --> 00:06:12,231\n參 與 決 策 這 一 項 非 常 重 要 的 要 件 要 把 它 納 入 第 三 點 就 是 我 們 看 到 了 不 管 是 大 學 的 學 生 社 團 還 是 高 中 生 的 學 生 社 團 其 實 發 展 都 越 來 越 蓬 勃 但 我 希 望 我 們 把 社 團 也 要 當 作 我 們 正 式 教 育 的 一 環 但 目 前 我 看 到 我 們 教 育 部 在 政 策 上 面 支 持 學 生 社 團 的 政 策 工 具 是 少 之 又 少 我 自 己 在 高 中 參 加\n\n17\n00:06:13,891 --> 00:06:13,911\n﹚ 吳 沛 憶\n\n18\n00:06:29,443 --> 00:06:37,988\n我 們 的 體 育 署 是 要 升 格 為 體 育 部 那 這 個 呢 不 只 是 我 們 賴 清 德 總 統 競 選 期 間 的 政 見 也 是 我 個 人 參 選 立 委 的 時 候 提 出 來 的 政 見 尤 其 是 我 在 台 北 市 擔 任 市 議 員 的 時 候 就 注 意 到 我 們 台 北 市 的 運 動 產 業 規 模 是 快 速 的 增 加 以 健 身 房 為 例 2 0 1 3 年 的 時 候 只 有 1 4 9 間 到 2 0 2 3 年 已 經 是 幾 倍 數 的 成 長 樓 來 到 超 過 9 0 0 間 這 個 會 有 什 麼 問 題\n\n19\n00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:57,620\n﹚ 廣 告\n\n20\n00:07:21,789 --> 00:07:21,809\n吳 沛 憶 憶 憶 憶 憶 憶 憶 憶 憶 憶 憶 憶 憶 憶 憶 憶 憶 憶 憶 憶 憶 憶 憶\n\n21\n00:07:46,482 --> 00:07:46,502\n﹚ 吳 沛 憶\n\n22\n00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:22,325\n同 博 的 變 化 所 以 我 希 望 我 們 在 做 組 織 改 造 的 時 候 必 須 要 把 運 動 產 業 要 把 它 很 仔 細 的 去 考 量 進 去 所 以 說 我 想 請 問 部 長 目 前 對 於 體 育 署 升 格 為 體 育 部 我 們 有 沒 有 一 個 時 間 表\n\n23\n00:08:33,342 --> 00:08:34,002\n有 沒 有 一 個 時 間 表 ?\n\n24\n00:08:58,833 --> 00:09:07,016\n7 月 7 月 會 大 概 在 北 中 南 東 分 區 去 座 談 然 後 也 許 8 月 就 開 始 針 對 這 些 座 談 的 社 會 廣 廳 社 會 好 所 以 我 們 預 計 7 月 份 會 來 舉 辦 座 談\n\n25\n00:09:13,138 --> 00:09:16,101\n這 座 談 是 跟 民 間 團 體 相 關 的 實 務 界 的 來 座 談 這 非 常 重 要 我 認 為 過 去 我 們 文 化 部 我 們 法 定 是 要 求 要 舉 辦 全 國 文 化 會 議 我 認 為 我 們 也 應 該 要 舉 辦 全 國 體 育 會 議 那 如 果 部 長 我 就 是 要 提 醒 你 這 一 點\n\n26\n00:09:53,123 --> 00:09:56,227\n所 以 切 記 我 們 一 定 要 充 分 的 跟 民 間 溝 通 討 論 看 見 產 業 需 求 看 見 選 手 需 求 再 來 做 我 們 綜 合 相 關 的 規 劃 可 不 可 以 做 得 到\n\n27\n00:10:03,905 --> 00:10:20,778\n當 然 這 個 廣 聽 民 意 然 後 做 出 一 個 更 好 的 一 個 這 個 升 格 的 一 個 規 劃 那 是 我 們 努 力 的 目 標 再 來 是 我 們 的 體 育 預 算 因 為 我 們 副 院 長 昨 天 也 說 體 育 預 算 應 該 要 來 增 加 我 就 想 要 請 問 我 們 張 亮 次 長 因 為 我 知 道 過 去 你 一 直 在 關 心 我 們 的 這 個 運 動 發 展 基 金 的 編 列 過 去 我 們 的 執 行 率 已 經 好 不 容 易 有 達 到 來 九 成\n\n28\n00:10:29,824 --> 00:10:46,410\n但 是 我 們 的 收 入 的 決 算 每 次 都 是 低 估 能 不 能 請 問 為 什 麼 會 這 樣 子 呢 我 其 實 在 擔 任 委 員 的 時 候 我 也 對 這 個 預 算 尤 其 是 基 金 的 預 算 公 務 的 預 算 的 比 例 也 曾 經 建 議 過 當 然 現 在 我 在 部 裡 面 我 們 會 盡 量 來 爭 取 這 個 除 了 我 們 那 個 基 金 預 算 以 外 我 們 的 公 務 預 算 也 能 夠 年 年 成 長\n\n29\n00:10:55,513 --> 00:11:15,628\n是 , 因 為 預 算 就 是 要 何 時 編 列 , 已 經 連 年 都 是 低 估 了 , 所 以 我 希 望 我 們 未 來 要 來 精 確 的 去 評 估 從 2 0 1 6 到 2 0 2 4 年 應 該 是 從 大 概 七 八 十 億 的 規 模 已 經 成 長 到 一 百 三 十 幾 億 那 明 年 因 為 現 在 開 始 在 編 明 年 的 預 算 , 那 明 年 的 預 算 預 計 也 會 繼 續 成 長\n\n30\n00:11:17,509 --> 00:11:33,058\n那 再 來 呢 最 後 我 想 要 請 教 我 們 葉 市 長 因 為 我 自 己 個 人 國 小 參 與 的 是 4 1 0 當 時 教 改 一 個 實 驗 班 那 我 在 台 北 市 議 會 的 時 候 也 是 來 推 動 台 北 市 實 驗 教 訓 中 心 的 成 立 那 我 知 道\n\n31\n00:11:33,878 --> 00:11:45,282\n業 次 長 你 說 你 所 辦 的 這 第 一 批 的 非 學 校 實 驗 教 育 機 構 已 經 有 學 生 是 大 學 生 了 他 們 也 回 來 跟 你 聊 天 所 以 過 去 我 們 這 些 年 來 的 經 驗 實 驗 教 育 三 法 修 法 之 後 這 些 經 驗 你 認 為 未 來 我 們 教 育 部 要 怎 麼 樣 來 支 持 實 驗 教 育\n\n32\n00:11:51,631 --> 00:12:11,022\n我 想 實 驗 教 育 是 臺 灣 的 教 育 我 覺 得 一 個 蠻 難 得 的 一 個 果 實 那 我 想 比 如 以 去 年 來 講 的 話 之 前 這 個 東 京 都 政 府 他 們 其 實 派 了 一 群 官 員 來 臺 灣 參 訪 就 是 特 別 想 要 來 看 實 驗 教 育 我 想 臺 灣 的 實 驗 教 育 其 實 做 到 已 經 連 日 本 一 些 我 覺 得 他 們 都 在 這 件 事 情\n\n33\n00:12:11,542 --> 00:12:39,626\n但 回 過 頭 來 我 覺 得 在 這 1 0 年 下 來 確 實 有 一 些 我 覺 得 我 們 未 來 可 以 一 起 再 努 力 的 目 標 比 如 說 舉 例 來 講 像 實 驗 教 育 有 很 多 時 候 最 大 的 一 個 挑 戰 就 是 包 括 一 些 空 間 這 些 很 多 的 問 題 事 實 上 比 如 說 像 在 學 校 裡 面 這 些 簽 約 租 約 都 是 要 一 年 一 簽 這 對 實 驗 教 育 都 有 非 常 大 的 壓 力 那 再 包 括 比 如 說 像 這 個 數 位 資 訊 的 這 些 的 s u p p o r t 這 些 其 實 它 如 果 不 是 一 個 正 常 的 學 校 的 話 它 要 申 請 這 些 其 實 有 時 候 也 都 會 受 到\n\n34\n00:13:43,413 --> 00:13:55,982\n好 部 長 我 必 須 要 說 我 今 天 相 當 失 望 的 是 在 我 們 教 育 部 整 本 報 告 裡 面 我 沒 有 看 到 我 們 對 實 驗 教 育 政 策 方 向 的 說 明 那 過 去 為 什 麼 我 們 在 台 北 市 地 方 政 府 要 推 動 一 個 中 心 就 是 我 們 發 現 這 個 主 責 承 辦 的 單 位 他 是 分 成 國 小 國 中 高 中 但 可 能 實 驗 教 育 機 構 有 一 所 他 就 是 國 小 國 中 高 中 是 貫 穿 的 所 以 我 希 望 在 我 們 的 部 門 當 中 其 實 有 一 個 整 體 的 大 腦\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7452\t10254\t謝謝主席,我請鄭部長,張亮次長及葉次長好,我們請部長及兩位次長\n19478\t36714\t部長好上個禮拜五我們看到很多的民眾來到立法院外面關心我們國會正在審查的國會擴權法案的修法那其中呢很多媒體在關注的是現場看到了很多是高中生\n37935\t58748\t這些高中生的發言我坦白說我自己看到是非常的驚豔我認為我們的高中生是論述能力非常的強因為他們所提出來的觀點跟他的論述以及他事實查核的能力其實很多都超越我們不同政黨提出來的說明版本你可以看得出來他們是自己做功課\n59488\t86401\t自己去思考的不只是台北的議場外我們看到高中生包括了彰化嘉義火車站都有高中生主動出來發起集會熊中的學生在學校發起了肥皂箱裡面是各種不同的觀點所以對我來說這絕對不會是單一政黨的行動我想請問部長你有沒有看到我們的高中生在街頭上在學校上為了我們國家的公共政策站出來論述\n88769\t112636\t我想確實很多的時候我們看到我們現在年輕人對國家發展的一個關心公共政策的一些關心事實上真的是比以前有更多的一些關懷的心這某種相當程度我們是應該要給肯定表示我們教育在鼓勵獨立思考在追求這個民主\n114016\t114036\t﹚吳沛憶\n134602\t134782\t吳沛憶委員\n150467\t178991\t那所以呢今天也必須要跟部長討論的也就是我們的青年基本法青年基本法近期教育部才召開了公聽會其中兩項是我們收集到民間的意見第一點就是我們希望在法治裡面青年基本法來明定是支持青年政策的參與另外也希望要有更多的跟學生直接對話的平台所以首先我想要請問部長的是我們青年基本法來明定鼓勵青年政策參與\n179956\t181008\t這個方向你是認同的嗎?\n182688\t183648\t關於我們跟青年直接來對話的這個平台,教育部目前有沒有在規劃當中?\n211620\t240123\t我想我們現在事實上這個跟委員報告我們現在的網路很多的這個管道事實上都是可以來納入這個聽這個年輕人的聲音我也建立了青年參與政策的一些機制從中央到地方事實上都是有的甚至我們看到地方還有一些青年發展局這些正式的組織的成立都是希望能夠有更多的鼓勵年輕人共同關心這一塊土地\n241224\t264133\t當然因為我們有清法署所以關於青年事務相關的這些業務跟規劃一直都是有但現在之所以希望能夠制定青年基本法就是希望把相關的權利義務以及對象我們把它名定其屬例如我今天要直接具體的提三點的建議第一個目前我們教育部的主張關於青年的年齡定義是在18歲到45歲\n265493\t292440\t我的建議是我們應該要參考聯合國的標準把它放寬下修到15歲尤其是我們現在看到高中生對於公共的參與有絕對的熱切也有絕對的能力所以我希望既然我們要去打開政府跟青年對話的平台不要把高中生排除在之外第二點是我們的政治參與其實當然有很多的形式過去親府會時期當時的\n294500\t299785\t主委是我們現在的副院長鄭麗君他當時力推的是審議民主那這幾年我自己在地方議會都看到了很多是參與式預算實的實作行政院有推動了V台灣的現象政策等等討論的經驗所以我要說的是我們當然有非常多的平台可以讓青年來參與但是千萬不要讓青年淪為我們政府的樣板\n319742\t325807\t也就是說青年的參與青年的意見我們必須實質的讓他去可以導入我們決策的過程這才叫做父權不是說開會的時候找個青年代表來簽個名就會議結束的結論還是都是依照我們部裡依照我們政府的版本來去做那這個就叫做青年樣板不叫做青年政策參與所以我希望教育部未來再訂定不管是青年國師會議還是相關的機制務必要把父權\n349005\t372231\t參與決策這一項非常重要的要件要把它納入第三點就是我們看到了不管是大學的學生社團還是高中生的學生社團其實發展都越來越蓬勃但我希望我們把社團也要當作我們正式教育的一環但目前我看到我們教育部在政策上面支持學生社團的政策工具是少之又少我自己在高中參加\n373891\t373911\t﹚吳沛憶\n389443\t397988\t我們的體育署是要升格為體育部那這個呢不只是我們賴清德總統競選期間的政見也是我個人參選立委的時候提出來的政見尤其是我在台北市擔任市議員的時候就注意到我們台北市的運動產業規模是快速的增加以健身房為例2013年的時候只有149間到2023年已經是幾倍數的成長樓來到超過900間這個會有什麼問題\n417600\t417620\t﹚廣告\n441789\t441809\t吳沛憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶\n466482\t466502\t﹚吳沛憶\n496280\t502325\t同博的變化所以我希望我們在做組織改造的時候必須要把運動產業要把它很仔細的去考量進去所以說我想請問部長目前對於體育署升格為體育部我們有沒有一個時間表\n513342\t514002\t有沒有一個時間表?\n538833\t547016\t7月7月會大概在北中南東分區去座談然後也許8月就開始針對這些座談的社會廣廳社會好所以我們預計7月份會來舉辦座談\n553138\t556101\t這座談是跟民間團體相關的實務界的來座談這非常重要我認為過去我們文化部我們法定是要求要舉辦全國文化會議我認為我們也應該要舉辦全國體育會議那如果部長我就是要提醒你這一點\n569855\t593063\t﹗\n593123\t596227\t所以切記我們一定要充分的跟民間溝通討論看見產業需求看見選手需求再來做我們綜合相關的規劃可不可以做得到\n603905\t620778\t當然這個廣聽民意然後做出一個更好的一個這個升格的一個規劃那是我們努力的目標再來是我們的體育預算因為我們副院長昨天也說體育預算應該要來增加我就想要請問我們張亮次長因為我知道過去你一直在關心我們的這個運動發展基金的編列過去我們的執行率已經好不容易有達到來九成\n629824\t646410\t但是我們的收入的決算每次都是低估能不能請問為什麼會這樣子呢我其實在擔任委員的時候我也對這個預算尤其是基金的預算公務的預算的比例也曾經建議過當然現在我在部裡面我們會盡量來爭取這個除了我們那個基金預算以外我們的公務預算也能夠年年成長\n655513\t675628\t是,因為預算就是要何時編列,已經連年都是低估了,所以我希望我們未來要來精確的去評估從2016到2024年應該是從大概七八十億的規模已經成長到一百三十幾億那明年因為現在開始在編明年的預算,那明年的預算預計也會繼續成長\n677509\t693058\t那再來呢最後我想要請教我們葉市長因為我自己個人國小參與的是410當時教改一個實驗班那我在台北市議會的時候也是來推動台北市實驗教訓中心的成立那我知道\n693878\t705282\t業次長你說你所辦的這第一批的非學校實驗教育機構已經有學生是大學生了他們也回來跟你聊天所以過去我們這些年來的經驗實驗教育三法修法之後這些經驗你認為未來我們教育部要怎麼樣來支持實驗教育\n711631\t731022\t我想實驗教育是臺灣的教育我覺得一個蠻難得的一個果實那我想比如以去年來講的話之前這個東京都政府他們其實派了一群官員來臺灣參訪就是特別想要來看實驗教育我想臺灣的實驗教育其實做到已經連日本一些我覺得他們都在這件事情\n731542\t759626\t但回過頭來我覺得在這10年下來確實有一些我覺得我們未來可以一起再努力的目標比如說舉例來講像實驗教育有很多時候最大的一個挑戰就是包括一些空間這些很多的問題事實上比如說像在學校裡面這些簽約租約都是要一年一簽這對實驗教育都有非常大的壓力那再包括比如說像這個數位資訊的這些的support這些其實它如果不是一個正常的學校的話它要申請這些其實有時候也都會受到\n760026\t777022\t﹚議員﹚\n777022\t797056\t﹚議員\n797056\t823353\t﹗\n823413\t835982\t好部長我必須要說我今天相當失望的是在我們教育部整本報告裡面我沒有看到我們對實驗教育政策方向的說明那過去為什麼我們在台北市地方政府要推動一個中心就是我們發現這個主責承辦的單位他是分成國小國中高中但可能實驗教育機構有一所他就是國小國中高中是貫穿的所以我希望在我們的部門當中其實有一個整體的大腦\n848490\t857892\t﹗\n","txt":"謝謝主席,我請鄭部長,張亮次長及葉次長好,我們請部長及兩位次長\n部長好上個禮拜五我們看到很多的民眾來到立法院外面關心我們國會正在審查的國會擴權法案的修法那其中呢很多媒體在關注的是現場看到了很多是高中生\n這些高中生的發言我坦白說我自己看到是非常的驚豔我認為我們的高中生是論述能力非常的強因為他們所提出來的觀點跟他的論述以及他事實查核的能力其實很多都超越我們不同政黨提出來的說明版本你可以看得出來他們是自己做功課\n自己去思考的不只是台北的議場外我們看到高中生包括了彰化嘉義火車站都有高中生主動出來發起集會熊中的學生在學校發起了肥皂箱裡面是各種不同的觀點所以對我來說這絕對不會是單一政黨的行動我想請問部長你有沒有看到我們的高中生在街頭上在學校上為了我們國家的公共政策站出來論述\n我想確實很多的時候我們看到我們現在年輕人對國家發展的一個關心公共政策的一些關心事實上真的是比以前有更多的一些關懷的心這某種相當程度我們是應該要給肯定表示我們教育在鼓勵獨立思考在追求這個民主\n﹚吳沛憶\n吳沛憶委員\n那所以呢今天也必須要跟部長討論的也就是我們的青年基本法青年基本法近期教育部才召開了公聽會其中兩項是我們收集到民間的意見第一點就是我們希望在法治裡面青年基本法來明定是支持青年政策的參與另外也希望要有更多的跟學生直接對話的平台所以首先我想要請問部長的是我們青年基本法來明定鼓勵青年政策參與\n這個方向你是認同的嗎?\n關於我們跟青年直接來對話的這個平台,教育部目前有沒有在規劃當中?\n我想我們現在事實上這個跟委員報告我們現在的網路很多的這個管道事實上都是可以來納入這個聽這個年輕人的聲音我也建立了青年參與政策的一些機制從中央到地方事實上都是有的甚至我們看到地方還有一些青年發展局這些正式的組織的成立都是希望能夠有更多的鼓勵年輕人共同關心這一塊土地\n當然因為我們有清法署所以關於青年事務相關的這些業務跟規劃一直都是有但現在之所以希望能夠制定青年基本法就是希望把相關的權利義務以及對象我們把它名定其屬例如我今天要直接具體的提三點的建議第一個目前我們教育部的主張關於青年的年齡定義是在18歲到45歲\n我的建議是我們應該要參考聯合國的標準把它放寬下修到15歲尤其是我們現在看到高中生對於公共的參與有絕對的熱切也有絕對的能力所以我希望既然我們要去打開政府跟青年對話的平台不要把高中生排除在之外第二點是我們的政治參與其實當然有很多的形式過去親府會時期當時的\n主委是我們現在的副院長鄭麗君他當時力推的是審議民主那這幾年我自己在地方議會都看到了很多是參與式預算實的實作行政院有推動了V台灣的現象政策等等討論的經驗所以我要說的是我們當然有非常多的平台可以讓青年來參與但是千萬不要讓青年淪為我們政府的樣板\n也就是說青年的參與青年的意見我們必須實質的讓他去可以導入我們決策的過程這才叫做父權不是說開會的時候找個青年代表來簽個名就會議結束的結論還是都是依照我們部裡依照我們政府的版本來去做那這個就叫做青年樣板不叫做青年政策參與所以我希望教育部未來再訂定不管是青年國師會議還是相關的機制務必要把父權\n參與決策這一項非常重要的要件要把它納入第三點就是我們看到了不管是大學的學生社團還是高中生的學生社團其實發展都越來越蓬勃但我希望我們把社團也要當作我們正式教育的一環但目前我看到我們教育部在政策上面支持學生社團的政策工具是少之又少我自己在高中參加\n﹚吳沛憶\n我們的體育署是要升格為體育部那這個呢不只是我們賴清德總統競選期間的政見也是我個人參選立委的時候提出來的政見尤其是我在台北市擔任市議員的時候就注意到我們台北市的運動產業規模是快速的增加以健身房為例2013年的時候只有149間到2023年已經是幾倍數的成長樓來到超過900間這個會有什麼問題\n﹚廣告\n吳沛憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶\n﹚吳沛憶\n同博的變化所以我希望我們在做組織改造的時候必須要把運動產業要把它很仔細的去考量進去所以說我想請問部長目前對於體育署升格為體育部我們有沒有一個時間表\n有沒有一個時間表?\n7月7月會大概在北中南東分區去座談然後也許8月就開始針對這些座談的社會廣廳社會好所以我們預計7月份會來舉辦座談\n這座談是跟民間團體相關的實務界的來座談這非常重要我認為過去我們文化部我們法定是要求要舉辦全國文化會議我認為我們也應該要舉辦全國體育會議那如果部長我就是要提醒你這一點\n﹗\n所以切記我們一定要充分的跟民間溝通討論看見產業需求看見選手需求再來做我們綜合相關的規劃可不可以做得到\n當然這個廣聽民意然後做出一個更好的一個這個升格的一個規劃那是我們努力的目標再來是我們的體育預算因為我們副院長昨天也說體育預算應該要來增加我就想要請問我們張亮次長因為我知道過去你一直在關心我們的這個運動發展基金的編列過去我們的執行率已經好不容易有達到來九成\n但是我們的收入的決算每次都是低估能不能請問為什麼會這樣子呢我其實在擔任委員的時候我也對這個預算尤其是基金的預算公務的預算的比例也曾經建議過當然現在我在部裡面我們會盡量來爭取這個除了我們那個基金預算以外我們的公務預算也能夠年年成長\n是,因為預算就是要何時編列,已經連年都是低估了,所以我希望我們未來要來精確的去評估從2016到2024年應該是從大概七八十億的規模已經成長到一百三十幾億那明年因為現在開始在編明年的預算,那明年的預算預計也會繼續成長\n那再來呢最後我想要請教我們葉市長因為我自己個人國小參與的是410當時教改一個實驗班那我在台北市議會的時候也是來推動台北市實驗教訓中心的成立那我知道\n業次長你說你所辦的這第一批的非學校實驗教育機構已經有學生是大學生了他們也回來跟你聊天所以過去我們這些年來的經驗實驗教育三法修法之後這些經驗你認為未來我們教育部要怎麼樣來支持實驗教育\n我想實驗教育是臺灣的教育我覺得一個蠻難得的一個果實那我想比如以去年來講的話之前這個東京都政府他們其實派了一群官員來臺灣參訪就是特別想要來看實驗教育我想臺灣的實驗教育其實做到已經連日本一些我覺得他們都在這件事情\n但回過頭來我覺得在這10年下來確實有一些我覺得我們未來可以一起再努力的目標比如說舉例來講像實驗教育有很多時候最大的一個挑戰就是包括一些空間這些很多的問題事實上比如說像在學校裡面這些簽約租約都是要一年一簽這對實驗教育都有非常大的壓力那再包括比如說像這個數位資訊的這些的support這些其實它如果不是一個正常的學校的話它要申請這些其實有時候也都會受到\n﹚議員﹚\n﹚議員\n﹗\n好部長我必須要說我今天相當失望的是在我們教育部整本報告裡面我沒有看到我們對實驗教育政策方向的說明那過去為什麼我們在台北市地方政府要推動一個中心就是我們發現這個主責承辦的單位他是分成國小國中高中但可能實驗教育機構有一所他就是國小國中高中是貫穿的所以我希望在我們的部門當中其實有一個整體的大腦\n﹗\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.452 --> 00:10.254\n謝 謝 主 席 , 我 請 鄭 部 長 , 張 亮 次 長 及 葉 次 長 好 , 我 們 請 部 長 及 兩 位 次 長\n\n00:19.478 --> 00:36.714\n部 長 好 上 個 禮 拜 五 我 們 看 到 很 多 的 民 眾 來 到 立 法 院 外 面 關 心 我 們 國 會 正 在 審 查 的 國 會 擴 權 法 案 的 修 法 那 其 中 呢 很 多 媒 體 在 關 注 的 是 現 場 看 到 了 很 多 是 高 中 生\n\n00:37.935 --> 00:58.748\n這 些 高 中 生 的 發 言 我 坦 白 說 我 自 己 看 到 是 非 常 的 驚 豔 我 認 為 我 們 的 高 中 生 是 論 述 能 力 非 常 的 強 因 為 他 們 所 提 出 來 的 觀 點 跟 他 的 論 述 以 及 他 事 實 查 核 的 能 力 其 實 很 多 都 超 越 我 們 不 同 政 黨 提 出 來 的 說 明 版 本 你 可 以 看 得 出 來 他 們 是 自 己 做 功 課\n\n00:59.488 --> 01:26.401\n自 己 去 思 考 的 不 只 是 台 北 的 議 場 外 我 們 看 到 高 中 生 包 括 了 彰 化 嘉 義 火 車 站 都 有 高 中 生 主 動 出 來 發 起 集 會 熊 中 的 學 生 在 學 校 發 起 了 肥 皂 箱 裡 面 是 各 種 不 同 的 觀 點 所 以 對 我 來 說 這 絕 對 不 會 是 單 一 政 黨 的 行 動 我 想 請 問 部 長 你 有 沒 有 看 到 我 們 的 高 中 生 在 街 頭 上 在 學 校 上 為 了 我 們 國 家 的 公 共 政 策 站 出 來 論 述\n\n01:28.769 --> 01:52.636\n我 想 確 實 很 多 的 時 候 我 們 看 到 我 們 現 在 年 輕 人 對 國 家 發 展 的 一 個 關 心 公 共 政 策 的 一 些 關 心 事 實 上 真 的 是 比 以 前 有 更 多 的 一 些 關 懷 的 心 這 某 種 相 當 程 度 我 們 是 應 該 要 給 肯 定 表 示 我 們 教 育 在 鼓 勵 獨 立 思 考 在 追 求 這 個 民 主\n\n01:54.016 --> 01:54.036\n﹚ 吳 沛 憶\n\n02:14.602 --> 02:14.782\n吳 沛 憶 委 員\n\n02:30.467 --> 02:58.991\n那 所 以 呢 今 天 也 必 須 要 跟 部 長 討 論 的 也 就 是 我 們 的 青 年 基 本 法 青 年 基 本 法 近 期 教 育 部 才 召 開 了 公 聽 會 其 中 兩 項 是 我 們 收 集 到 民 間 的 意 見 第 一 點 就 是 我 們 希 望 在 法 治 裡 面 青 年 基 本 法 來 明 定 是 支 持 青 年 政 策 的 參 與 另 外 也 希 望 要 有 更 多 的 跟 學 生 直 接 對 話 的 平 台 所 以 首 先 我 想 要 請 問 部 長 的 是 我 們 青 年 基 本 法 來 明 定 鼓 勵 青 年 政 策 參 與\n\n02:59.956 --> 03:01.008\n這 個 方 向 你 是 認 同 的 嗎 ?\n\n03:02.688 --> 03:03.648\n關 於 我 們 跟 青 年 直 接 來 對 話 的 這 個 平 台 , 教 育 部 目 前 有 沒 有 在 規 劃 當 中 ?\n\n03:31.620 --> 04:00.123\n我 想 我 們 現 在 事 實 上 這 個 跟 委 員 報 告 我 們 現 在 的 網 路 很 多 的 這 個 管 道 事 實 上 都 是 可 以 來 納 入 這 個 聽 這 個 年 輕 人 的 聲 音 我 也 建 立 了 青 年 參 與 政 策 的 一 些 機 制 從 中 央 到 地 方 事 實 上 都 是 有 的 甚 至 我 們 看 到 地 方 還 有 一 些 青 年 發 展 局 這 些 正 式 的 組 織 的 成 立 都 是 希 望 能 夠 有 更 多 的 鼓 勵 年 輕 人 共 同 關 心 這 一 塊 土 地\n\n04:01.224 --> 04:24.133\n當 然 因 為 我 們 有 清 法 署 所 以 關 於 青 年 事 務 相 關 的 這 些 業 務 跟 規 劃 一 直 都 是 有 但 現 在 之 所 以 希 望 能 夠 制 定 青 年 基 本 法 就 是 希 望 把 相 關 的 權 利 義 務 以 及 對 象 我 們 把 它 名 定 其 屬 例 如 我 今 天 要 直 接 具 體 的 提 三 點 的 建 議 第 一 個 目 前 我 們 教 育 部 的 主 張 關 於 青 年 的 年 齡 定 義 是 在 1 8 歲 到 4 5 歲\n\n04:25.493 --> 04:52.440\n我 的 建 議 是 我 們 應 該 要 參 考 聯 合 國 的 標 準 把 它 放 寬 下 修 到 1 5 歲 尤 其 是 我 們 現 在 看 到 高 中 生 對 於 公 共 的 參 與 有 絕 對 的 熱 切 也 有 絕 對 的 能 力 所 以 我 希 望 既 然 我 們 要 去 打 開 政 府 跟 青 年 對 話 的 平 台 不 要 把 高 中 生 排 除 在 之 外 第 二 點 是 我 們 的 政 治 參 與 其 實 當 然 有 很 多 的 形 式 過 去 親 府 會 時 期 當 時 的\n\n04:54.500 --> 04:59.785\n主 委 是 我 們 現 在 的 副 院 長 鄭 麗 君 他 當 時 力 推 的 是 審 議 民 主 那 這 幾 年 我 自 己 在 地 方 議 會 都 看 到 了 很 多 是 參 與 式 預 算 實 的 實 作 行 政 院 有 推 動 了 V 台 灣 的 現 象 政 策 等 等 討 論 的 經 驗 所 以 我 要 說 的 是 我 們 當 然 有 非 常 多 的 平 台 可 以 讓 青 年 來 參 與 但 是 千 萬 不 要 讓 青 年 淪 為 我 們 政 府 的 樣 板\n\n05:19.742 --> 05:25.807\n也 就 是 說 青 年 的 參 與 青 年 的 意 見 我 們 必 須 實 質 的 讓 他 去 可 以 導 入 我 們 決 策 的 過 程 這 才 叫 做 父 權 不 是 說 開 會 的 時 候 找 個 青 年 代 表 來 簽 個 名 就 會 議 結 束 的 結 論 還 是 都 是 依 照 我 們 部 裡 依 照 我 們 政 府 的 版 本 來 去 做 那 這 個 就 叫 做 青 年 樣 板 不 叫 做 青 年 政 策 參 與 所 以 我 希 望 教 育 部 未 來 再 訂 定 不 管 是 青 年 國 師 會 議 還 是 相 關 的 機 制 務 必 要 把 父 權\n\n05:49.005 --> 06:12.231\n參 與 決 策 這 一 項 非 常 重 要 的 要 件 要 把 它 納 入 第 三 點 就 是 我 們 看 到 了 不 管 是 大 學 的 學 生 社 團 還 是 高 中 生 的 學 生 社 團 其 實 發 展 都 越 來 越 蓬 勃 但 我 希 望 我 們 把 社 團 也 要 當 作 我 們 正 式 教 育 的 一 環 但 目 前 我 看 到 我 們 教 育 部 在 政 策 上 面 支 持 學 生 社 團 的 政 策 工 具 是 少 之 又 少 我 自 己 在 高 中 參 加\n\n06:13.891 --> 06:13.911\n﹚ 吳 沛 憶\n\n06:29.443 --> 06:37.988\n我 們 的 體 育 署 是 要 升 格 為 體 育 部 那 這 個 呢 不 只 是 我 們 賴 清 德 總 統 競 選 期 間 的 政 見 也 是 我 個 人 參 選 立 委 的 時 候 提 出 來 的 政 見 尤 其 是 我 在 台 北 市 擔 任 市 議 員 的 時 候 就 注 意 到 我 們 台 北 市 的 運 動 產 業 規 模 是 快 速 的 增 加 以 健 身 房 為 例 2 0 1 3 年 的 時 候 只 有 1 4 9 間 到 2 0 2 3 年 已 經 是 幾 倍 數 的 成 長 樓 來 到 超 過 9 0 0 間 這 個 會 有 什 麼 問 題\n\n06:57.600 --> 06:57.620\n﹚ 廣 告\n\n07:21.789 --> 07:21.809\n吳 沛 憶 憶 憶 憶 憶 憶 憶 憶 憶 憶 憶 憶 憶 憶 憶 憶 憶 憶 憶 憶 憶 憶 憶\n\n07:46.482 --> 07:46.502\n﹚ 吳 沛 憶\n\n08:16.280 --> 08:22.325\n同 博 的 變 化 所 以 我 希 望 我 們 在 做 組 織 改 造 的 時 候 必 須 要 把 運 動 產 業 要 把 它 很 仔 細 的 去 考 量 進 去 所 以 說 我 想 請 問 部 長 目 前 對 於 體 育 署 升 格 為 體 育 部 我 們 有 沒 有 一 個 時 間 表\n\n08:33.342 --> 08:34.002\n有 沒 有 一 個 時 間 表 ?\n\n08:58.833 --> 09:07.016\n7 月 7 月 會 大 概 在 北 中 南 東 分 區 去 座 談 然 後 也 許 8 月 就 開 始 針 對 這 些 座 談 的 社 會 廣 廳 社 會 好 所 以 我 們 預 計 7 月 份 會 來 舉 辦 座 談\n\n09:13.138 --> 09:16.101\n這 座 談 是 跟 民 間 團 體 相 關 的 實 務 界 的 來 座 談 這 非 常 重 要 我 認 為 過 去 我 們 文 化 部 我 們 法 定 是 要 求 要 舉 辦 全 國 文 化 會 議 我 認 為 我 們 也 應 該 要 舉 辦 全 國 體 育 會 議 那 如 果 部 長 我 就 是 要 提 醒 你 這 一 點\n\n09:53.123 --> 09:56.227\n所 以 切 記 我 們 一 定 要 充 分 的 跟 民 間 溝 通 討 論 看 見 產 業 需 求 看 見 選 手 需 求 再 來 做 我 們 綜 合 相 關 的 規 劃 可 不 可 以 做 得 到\n\n10:03.905 --> 10:20.778\n當 然 這 個 廣 聽 民 意 然 後 做 出 一 個 更 好 的 一 個 這 個 升 格 的 一 個 規 劃 那 是 我 們 努 力 的 目 標 再 來 是 我 們 的 體 育 預 算 因 為 我 們 副 院 長 昨 天 也 說 體 育 預 算 應 該 要 來 增 加 我 就 想 要 請 問 我 們 張 亮 次 長 因 為 我 知 道 過 去 你 一 直 在 關 心 我 們 的 這 個 運 動 發 展 基 金 的 編 列 過 去 我 們 的 執 行 率 已 經 好 不 容 易 有 達 到 來 九 成\n\n10:29.824 --> 10:46.410\n但 是 我 們 的 收 入 的 決 算 每 次 都 是 低 估 能 不 能 請 問 為 什 麼 會 這 樣 子 呢 我 其 實 在 擔 任 委 員 的 時 候 我 也 對 這 個 預 算 尤 其 是 基 金 的 預 算 公 務 的 預 算 的 比 例 也 曾 經 建 議 過 當 然 現 在 我 在 部 裡 面 我 們 會 盡 量 來 爭 取 這 個 除 了 我 們 那 個 基 金 預 算 以 外 我 們 的 公 務 預 算 也 能 夠 年 年 成 長\n\n10:55.513 --> 11:15.628\n是 , 因 為 預 算 就 是 要 何 時 編 列 , 已 經 連 年 都 是 低 估 了 , 所 以 我 希 望 我 們 未 來 要 來 精 確 的 去 評 估 從 2 0 1 6 到 2 0 2 4 年 應 該 是 從 大 概 七 八 十 億 的 規 模 已 經 成 長 到 一 百 三 十 幾 億 那 明 年 因 為 現 在 開 始 在 編 明 年 的 預 算 , 那 明 年 的 預 算 預 計 也 會 繼 續 成 長\n\n11:17.509 --> 11:33.058\n那 再 來 呢 最 後 我 想 要 請 教 我 們 葉 市 長 因 為 我 自 己 個 人 國 小 參 與 的 是 4 1 0 當 時 教 改 一 個 實 驗 班 那 我 在 台 北 市 議 會 的 時 候 也 是 來 推 動 台 北 市 實 驗 教 訓 中 心 的 成 立 那 我 知 道\n\n11:33.878 --> 11:45.282\n業 次 長 你 說 你 所 辦 的 這 第 一 批 的 非 學 校 實 驗 教 育 機 構 已 經 有 學 生 是 大 學 生 了 他 們 也 回 來 跟 你 聊 天 所 以 過 去 我 們 這 些 年 來 的 經 驗 實 驗 教 育 三 法 修 法 之 後 這 些 經 驗 你 認 為 未 來 我 們 教 育 部 要 怎 麼 樣 來 支 持 實 驗 教 育\n\n11:51.631 --> 12:11.022\n我 想 實 驗 教 育 是 臺 灣 的 教 育 我 覺 得 一 個 蠻 難 得 的 一 個 果 實 那 我 想 比 如 以 去 年 來 講 的 話 之 前 這 個 東 京 都 政 府 他 們 其 實 派 了 一 群 官 員 來 臺 灣 參 訪 就 是 特 別 想 要 來 看 實 驗 教 育 我 想 臺 灣 的 實 驗 教 育 其 實 做 到 已 經 連 日 本 一 些 我 覺 得 他 們 都 在 這 件 事 情\n\n12:11.542 --> 12:39.626\n但 回 過 頭 來 我 覺 得 在 這 1 0 年 下 來 確 實 有 一 些 我 覺 得 我 們 未 來 可 以 一 起 再 努 力 的 目 標 比 如 說 舉 例 來 講 像 實 驗 教 育 有 很 多 時 候 最 大 的 一 個 挑 戰 就 是 包 括 一 些 空 間 這 些 很 多 的 問 題 事 實 上 比 如 說 像 在 學 校 裡 面 這 些 簽 約 租 約 都 是 要 一 年 一 簽 這 對 實 驗 教 育 都 有 非 常 大 的 壓 力 那 再 包 括 比 如 說 像 這 個 數 位 資 訊 的 這 些 的 s u p p o r t 這 些 其 實 它 如 果 不 是 一 個 正 常 的 學 校 的 話 它 要 申 請 這 些 其 實 有 時 候 也 都 會 受 到\n\n13:43.413 --> 13:55.982\n好 部 長 我 必 須 要 說 我 今 天 相 當 失 望 的 是 在 我 們 教 育 部 整 本 報 告 裡 面 我 沒 有 看 到 我 們 對 實 驗 教 育 政 策 方 向 的 說 明 那 過 去 為 什 麼 我 們 在 台 北 市 地 方 政 府 要 推 動 一 個 中 心 就 是 我 們 發 現 這 個 主 責 承 辦 的 單 位 他 是 分 成 國 小 國 中 高 中 但 可 能 實 驗 教 育 機 構 有 一 所 他 就 是 國 小 國 中 高 中 是 貫 穿 的 所 以 我 希 望 在 我 們 的 部 門 當 中 其 實 有 一 個 整 體 的 大 腦\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.452,"end":10.254,"text":"謝謝主席,我請鄭部長,張亮次長及葉次長好,我們請部長及兩位次長"},{"start":19.478,"end":36.714,"text":"部長好上個禮拜五我們看到很多的民眾來到立法院外面關心我們國會正在審查的國會擴權法案的修法那其中呢很多媒體在關注的是現場看到了很多是高中生"},{"start":37.935,"end":58.748,"text":"這些高中生的發言我坦白說我自己看到是非常的驚豔我認為我們的高中生是論述能力非常的強因為他們所提出來的觀點跟他的論述以及他事實查核的能力其實很多都超越我們不同政黨提出來的說明版本你可以看得出來他們是自己做功課"},{"start":59.488,"end":86.401,"text":"自己去思考的不只是台北的議場外我們看到高中生包括了彰化嘉義火車站都有高中生主動出來發起集會熊中的學生在學校發起了肥皂箱裡面是各種不同的觀點所以對我來說這絕對不會是單一政黨的行動我想請問部長你有沒有看到我們的高中生在街頭上在學校上為了我們國家的公共政策站出來論述"},{"start":88.769,"end":112.636,"text":"我想確實很多的時候我們看到我們現在年輕人對國家發展的一個關心公共政策的一些關心事實上真的是比以前有更多的一些關懷的心這某種相當程度我們是應該要給肯定表示我們教育在鼓勵獨立思考在追求這個民主"},{"start":114.016,"end":114.036,"text":"﹚吳沛憶"},{"start":134.602,"end":134.782,"text":"吳沛憶委員"},{"start":150.467,"end":178.991,"text":"那所以呢今天也必須要跟部長討論的也就是我們的青年基本法青年基本法近期教育部才召開了公聽會其中兩項是我們收集到民間的意見第一點就是我們希望在法治裡面青年基本法來明定是支持青年政策的參與另外也希望要有更多的跟學生直接對話的平台所以首先我想要請問部長的是我們青年基本法來明定鼓勵青年政策參與"},{"start":179.956,"end":181.008,"text":"這個方向你是認同的嗎?"},{"start":182.688,"end":183.648,"text":"關於我們跟青年直接來對話的這個平台,教育部目前有沒有在規劃當中?"},{"start":211.62,"end":240.123,"text":"我想我們現在事實上這個跟委員報告我們現在的網路很多的這個管道事實上都是可以來納入這個聽這個年輕人的聲音我也建立了青年參與政策的一些機制從中央到地方事實上都是有的甚至我們看到地方還有一些青年發展局這些正式的組織的成立都是希望能夠有更多的鼓勵年輕人共同關心這一塊土地"},{"start":241.224,"end":264.133,"text":"當然因為我們有清法署所以關於青年事務相關的這些業務跟規劃一直都是有但現在之所以希望能夠制定青年基本法就是希望把相關的權利義務以及對象我們把它名定其屬例如我今天要直接具體的提三點的建議第一個目前我們教育部的主張關於青年的年齡定義是在18歲到45歲"},{"start":265.493,"end":292.44,"text":"我的建議是我們應該要參考聯合國的標準把它放寬下修到15歲尤其是我們現在看到高中生對於公共的參與有絕對的熱切也有絕對的能力所以我希望既然我們要去打開政府跟青年對話的平台不要把高中生排除在之外第二點是我們的政治參與其實當然有很多的形式過去親府會時期當時的"},{"start":294.5,"end":299.785,"text":"主委是我們現在的副院長鄭麗君他當時力推的是審議民主那這幾年我自己在地方議會都看到了很多是參與式預算實的實作行政院有推動了V台灣的現象政策等等討論的經驗所以我要說的是我們當然有非常多的平台可以讓青年來參與但是千萬不要讓青年淪為我們政府的樣板"},{"start":319.742,"end":325.807,"text":"也就是說青年的參與青年的意見我們必須實質的讓他去可以導入我們決策的過程這才叫做父權不是說開會的時候找個青年代表來簽個名就會議結束的結論還是都是依照我們部裡依照我們政府的版本來去做那這個就叫做青年樣板不叫做青年政策參與所以我希望教育部未來再訂定不管是青年國師會議還是相關的機制務必要把父權"},{"start":349.005,"end":372.231,"text":"參與決策這一項非常重要的要件要把它納入第三點就是我們看到了不管是大學的學生社團還是高中生的學生社團其實發展都越來越蓬勃但我希望我們把社團也要當作我們正式教育的一環但目前我看到我們教育部在政策上面支持學生社團的政策工具是少之又少我自己在高中參加"},{"start":373.891,"end":373.911,"text":"﹚吳沛憶"},{"start":389.443,"end":397.988,"text":"我們的體育署是要升格為體育部那這個呢不只是我們賴清德總統競選期間的政見也是我個人參選立委的時候提出來的政見尤其是我在台北市擔任市議員的時候就注意到我們台北市的運動產業規模是快速的增加以健身房為例2013年的時候只有149間到2023年已經是幾倍數的成長樓來到超過900間這個會有什麼問題"},{"start":417.6,"end":417.62,"text":"﹚廣告"},{"start":441.789,"end":441.809,"text":"吳沛憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶憶"},{"start":466.482,"end":466.502,"text":"﹚吳沛憶"},{"start":496.28,"end":502.325,"text":"同博的變化所以我希望我們在做組織改造的時候必須要把運動產業要把它很仔細的去考量進去所以說我想請問部長目前對於體育署升格為體育部我們有沒有一個時間表"},{"start":513.342,"end":514.002,"text":"有沒有一個時間表?"},{"start":538.833,"end":547.016,"text":"7月7月會大概在北中南東分區去座談然後也許8月就開始針對這些座談的社會廣廳社會好所以我們預計7月份會來舉辦座談"},{"start":553.138,"end":556.101,"text":"這座談是跟民間團體相關的實務界的來座談這非常重要我認為過去我們文化部我們法定是要求要舉辦全國文化會議我認為我們也應該要舉辦全國體育會議那如果部長我就是要提醒你這一點"},{"start":569.855,"end":593.063,"text":"﹗"},{"start":593.123,"end":596.227,"text":"所以切記我們一定要充分的跟民間溝通討論看見產業需求看見選手需求再來做我們綜合相關的規劃可不可以做得到"},{"start":603.905,"end":620.778,"text":"當然這個廣聽民意然後做出一個更好的一個這個升格的一個規劃那是我們努力的目標再來是我們的體育預算因為我們副院長昨天也說體育預算應該要來增加我就想要請問我們張亮次長因為我知道過去你一直在關心我們的這個運動發展基金的編列過去我們的執行率已經好不容易有達到來九成"},{"start":629.824,"end":646.41,"text":"但是我們的收入的決算每次都是低估能不能請問為什麼會這樣子呢我其實在擔任委員的時候我也對這個預算尤其是基金的預算公務的預算的比例也曾經建議過當然現在我在部裡面我們會盡量來爭取這個除了我們那個基金預算以外我們的公務預算也能夠年年成長"},{"start":655.513,"end":675.628,"text":"是,因為預算就是要何時編列,已經連年都是低估了,所以我希望我們未來要來精確的去評估從2016到2024年應該是從大概七八十億的規模已經成長到一百三十幾億那明年因為現在開始在編明年的預算,那明年的預算預計也會繼續成長"},{"start":677.509,"end":693.058,"text":"那再來呢最後我想要請教我們葉市長因為我自己個人國小參與的是410當時教改一個實驗班那我在台北市議會的時候也是來推動台北市實驗教訓中心的成立那我知道"},{"start":693.878,"end":705.282,"text":"業次長你說你所辦的這第一批的非學校實驗教育機構已經有學生是大學生了他們也回來跟你聊天所以過去我們這些年來的經驗實驗教育三法修法之後這些經驗你認為未來我們教育部要怎麼樣來支持實驗教育"},{"start":711.631,"end":731.022,"text":"我想實驗教育是臺灣的教育我覺得一個蠻難得的一個果實那我想比如以去年來講的話之前這個東京都政府他們其實派了一群官員來臺灣參訪就是特別想要來看實驗教育我想臺灣的實驗教育其實做到已經連日本一些我覺得他們都在這件事情"},{"start":731.542,"end":759.626,"text":"但回過頭來我覺得在這10年下來確實有一些我覺得我們未來可以一起再努力的目標比如說舉例來講像實驗教育有很多時候最大的一個挑戰就是包括一些空間這些很多的問題事實上比如說像在學校裡面這些簽約租約都是要一年一簽這對實驗教育都有非常大的壓力那再包括比如說像這個數位資訊的這些的support這些其實它如果不是一個正常的學校的話它要申請這些其實有時候也都會受到"},{"start":760.026,"end":777.022,"text":"﹚議員﹚"},{"start":777.022,"end":797.056,"text":"﹚議員"},{"start":797.056,"end":823.353,"text":"﹗"},{"start":823.413,"end":835.982,"text":"好部長我必須要說我今天相當失望的是在我們教育部整本報告裡面我沒有看到我們對實驗教育政策方向的說明那過去為什麼我們在台北市地方政府要推動一個中心就是我們發現這個主責承辦的單位他是分成國小國中高中但可能實驗教育機構有一所他就是國小國中高中是貫穿的所以我希望在我們的部門當中其實有一個整體的大腦"},{"start":848.49,"end":857.892,"text":"﹗"}]}}}}