{"id":153023,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153023","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/536b9eee2a0ea5b324758a19240c0271442d3172de404894945ede7791f90b9eb5795aa85c5ef6195ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃健豪","委員發言時間":"11:22:20 - 11:32:01","影片長度":"00:09:41","會議時間":"2024-05-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於數位發展部主管預算凍結案計11案。\n【5月27日及29日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-27","duration":581,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-14"},"end_time":"2024-05-27T11:32:01+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-27T11:22:20+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":529,"blocks":[["黃委員健豪：（11時22分）謝謝主席。我們請數發部黃部長。"],["主席：請黃部長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["黃委員健豪：部長好。部長，首先還是要肯定部長在上任之初就提出政策三支箭，第一個就是打詐，當然還包含發展數位經濟產業跟數位韌性。我想發展數位經濟產業跟數位韌性，這當然是部裡面的主要業務，但是我想民眾包含民意代表這邊，大家最關心的還是打詐的問題，因為打詐的問題其實真的非常嚴重，光是地方的警察局、地方派出所，在我選區裡面的派出所，剛好我這兩天要來質詢，我瞭解一下實務狀況，派出所大概每天，每天喔！每一個派出所大概可以收到5到6件詐騙通報、報案，這個是有案的，有的可能被騙還不知道，沒有來報案的，光是每天就有5到6件的案子，所以其實詐騙對於臺灣的民生經濟影響非常、非常重大。部長，你剛上任，也不能太苛求，但是我想讓你知道一個數字，有一個媒體可能晚點會公告，有一個民調，對於新政府會積極打擊詐騙，請問您對政府打擊詐騙有沒有信心？不太有信心跟很沒有信心的比例，不太有信心的17%、很沒有信心的31%，所以沒有信心的部分合計起來大概48%。我想問一下部長，你對於這樣的數字有什麼樣的感想，對未來施政有什麼樣的想法？"],["黃部長彥男：打詐是我們新政府的一個很重要的政策，行政院已經啟動這樣一個所謂打詐推動辦公室的作法，我們定期都有在跟各部會聯繫，因為打詐是跨部會的合作，我個人是滿有信心，因為我們現在的確在很多作為上，包括各個單位、各個部會都有提出新的作法，從資訊流、人流跟金流一起合作、一起下手，然後阻斷詐騙的管道，希望臺灣能夠是一個安全的地方，而減少詐騙。"],["黃委員健豪：好，謝謝。部長提到關鍵字，阻斷是最重要的，其實我們提了很多修法都只能後續的懲處，但是我們的確希望數發部，還有包括NCC在內，大家能夠從源頭把這個東西阻斷。所以回到這個政策本身，部長提到了打詐部分在3個月內要推出所謂的打詐通報查詢網，我也肯定這樣的作法，但是我要問部長一件事情，現在就已經有內政部警政署的165全民防騙網的功能，這個165全民防騙網跟你即將推出的打詐通報查詢網之間有什麼關聯性，或者這兩個東西會不會又疊床架屋？因為你要推出一個新的打詐通報查詢網還要再過3個月，我們現在就有165全民防騙網，當然是不同的部門，但對民眾來講，只要有詐騙相關的訊息，希望有一個單一的管道，不管是查詢也好、通報也好、或是各種新的詐騙資訊也好，民眾的出發點是希望只要透過一個網站或一個窗口瞭解就好，不需要有這麼多網站。所以我想問一下部長，到底這個打詐通報查詢網跟165全民防騙網未來是要整合，還是會有兩個網站的存在？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，看你的簡報就講得很清楚，如果我已經覺得這個訊息是詐騙，或是我已經被騙了，我來165這邊報案，我們的則是收到了訊息不確定的時候，可以先到我們這個網站來查是不是可能的詐騙，而不是我已經知道它是詐騙，我要來檢舉，所以這有個差異，也就是讓民眾收到訊息之後有個方式先來瞭解收到的訊息到底可不可信。而且我們這個查詢網會連結各個部會，當然也會連結警政署這個單位，就是我們已經看到這個訊息，經過AI的偵測確定可能是一個詐騙訊息，不需要民眾自動報案，我們這邊就把我們看到的訊息通報……"],["黃委員健豪：部長，你的意思是你們推動的打詐通報查詢網是屬於進行中的狀態，165全民防騙網查到的訊息是已確定狀態，是這個意思嗎？分工是這樣子？"],["黃部長彥男：就是民眾已經判斷知道是詐騙或者是他已經被騙了，他來這邊做……"],["黃委員健豪：我不能說你沒做事，但是我還是要拜託一下，其實對本席來說，詐騙問題的處理如果能夠整合，我覺得對民眾來講比較方便。講真的，現在165全民防騙網已經推一段時間了，大家有些想法及資訊一定是先上165去查詢，不會上打詐通報查詢網來查詢，現階段是這樣子。"],["黃部長彥男：對，我們希望……"],["黃委員健豪：當然，我們希望一個網站裡面就能夠……"],["黃部長彥男：我們是一個入口、portal，會連結到各個單位的……"],["黃委員健豪：我當然希望你要做到不要有這麼多的版本……"],["黃部長彥男：瞭解。"],["黃委員健豪：就是部長剛剛提到的，打詐通報查詢網是進行中、可能潛在的狀況，165是已經確定的，但對我來講或對任何一個資訊有落差的人來講，他相信政府、上網查，就是要得到一個可能存在的答案，不要還分兩個，上165查不到，再上打詐通報查詢網查查看，我希望這件事情是能夠結合在一起的，部長，可以嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：可以，我們會整合。"],["黃委員健豪：你們會跟內政部來整合吧？"],["黃部長彥男：對，我們會跟內政部做整合。"],["黃委員健豪：再來，前面也有很多委員提到包含名人詐騙的問題，這件事情就這樣，當初在推電子簽章法的時候，數位部也跟我們承諾推動電子簽章法之後，未來能夠減少這種名人冒名詐騙的問題，現在電子簽章法已經正式三讀通過之後，到底能不能做到防止名人詐騙的問題？"],["黃部長彥男：電子簽章法讓我們有個機制能夠做數位簽章、確認是KYC，可是剛剛講的，像廣告平臺商要不要用數位簽章，需要立個法來要求他們一定要做這個事情，這個法就是我們現在在進行的打詐專法，這個如果通過的話，廣告必須要做實名制，實名制的一個方法就是用電子簽章、數位簽章來做認證，這是一個方法。"],["黃委員健豪：這個法是罰廣告商，還是罰平臺業者？推動新的法律，你要罰的是誰？"],["黃部長彥男：它如果沒有配合我們做剛剛講的打詐的話，平臺商、平臺業者要被罰，對，沒有錯。"],["黃委員健豪：所以未來有機會我期待什麼時候你去罰包括Facebook也好、Google也好這些跨國公司，因為在臺灣到目前為止詐騙案件這麼泛濫，不管臉書也好、LINE也好、Google也好，他們是主要的詐騙平臺。"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["黃委員健豪：當然，你要罰內容業者、內容產製者是沒問題的，但是我要問的是，這些平臺到底有沒有義務去規範？他們如果沒有達到法律要求，沒有去規範，我們的政府什麼時候才會對Facebook也好、Google、YouTube或LINE也好開出第一張罰單？目前有開過罰單嗎？目前都沒有嘛！"],["黃部長彥男：打詐專法通過以後，我們就可以，它如果沒有配合做剛剛講的這些事情，包括配合下架、處理，或者沒有做KYC、實名制的認證，我們就可以對它裁罰。這個當然還是要有法，法的部分就是剛剛講的打詐專法通過之後，我們會做這個事情。"],["黃委員健豪：部長，所以打詐專法通過之後，包含Facebook這家公司也會在你們裁罰的範圍裡面？"],["黃部長彥男：當然。"],["黃委員健豪：不會只有所謂的代理商、廣告業者被罰，連……"],["黃部長彥男：平臺商。"],["黃委員健豪：連平臺本身都會被罰嘛？"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["黃委員健豪：好。部長，最後一個問題，你在簡報裡面提到第三方支付也是你們管制的目標，但是第三方支付跟電子支付不一樣，電子支付是要有金管會的認證才有電子支付，但是第三方支付平臺有幾千間、幾百間平臺業者，是所有的你們都有能力、能量去追查嗎？還是要透過其他方式？"],["黃部長彥男：我們在第三方支付已經實施比方能量登錄，一萬多家登記的第三方支付業者現在只有53家通過我們的能量登錄，也就是我們可以集中管理這53家，這53家……"],["黃委員健豪：沒登錄的怎麼辦？我現在問的其實就是登錄很少……"],["黃部長彥男：沒有經過我們能量登錄的人在銀行就沒辦法拿到所謂的帳號，也就是說，金融單位要給第三方支付業者虛擬帳號，必須是有能量登錄過的人，通過能量登錄的人要做什麼事情？他要確認來登廣告或申請虛擬帳號的人必須是實名制，也就是說，他必須是真正的……讓很多詐騙的人就沒有辦法在通過我們認證過的53家第三方支付業者拿到虛擬帳號，用這個方式斷絕剛剛講的過去的網路詐騙，從這樣的例子，我們已經看到詐騙數目下降得非常多，從以前一個多月的……可以補充一下這個數字。"],["黃委員健豪：沒關係。"],["呂署長正華：跟委員報告，第三方支付的部分要謝謝金管會，最開始都是虛擬帳號，現在它如果沒有在我們這裡登錄、非這53家的，就不會給它虛擬帳號，就沒有辦法匯錢進去。你說以前它沒做第三方支付，我們還是去查核，如果它願意要做，所以就不會像一萬多家，那就沒有辦法控制，現在100件以內的管理等等，我們會來努力，謝謝委員的指導。"],["黃委員健豪：好，謝謝。謝謝部長，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝，黃健豪委員發言完畢。","現在請鍾佳濱委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":266,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-14","speakers":["李昆澤","廖先翔","林國成","林俊憲","林沛祥","魯明哲","徐富癸","陳素月","何欣純","蔡其昌","許智傑","邱若華","黃健豪","鍾佳濱","王鴻薇","葛如鈞","黃珊珊","洪孟楷","游顥","林月琴","李坤城","張啓楷","楊瓊瓔","陳冠廷","陳培瑜","羅智強"],"page_start":203,"meetingDate":["2024-05-27"],"gazette_id":"1135301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135301_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查 113年度中央政府總預\n算關於數位發展部主管預算凍結案計11案","agenda_id":"1135301_00005"}},"transcript":{"id":"153023","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153023","tool":"pyannote","id":"153023-pyannote"},"job_id":"pWa1cSaRIeLqHWBC","queued_at":"2024-05-30 16:38:17","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-05-30 16:40:34","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153023"},{"time":"2024-05-30 16:40:35","msg":"downloading https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/536b9eee2a0ea5b324758a19240c0271442d3172de404894895b67889ddc2315de4db3fcf8990ae15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8"},{"time":"2024-05-30 16:41:01","msg":"converting mp4 to wav"},{"time":"2024-05-30 16:41:03","msg":"running pyannote"},{"time":"2024-05-30 16:41:13","msg":"status: 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488.62, \"score\": 0.985}]}, {\"start\": 489.1, \"end\": 514.142, \"text\": \"我們已經在第三次已經實施比如說那個能量登錄能量登錄已經讓我們這1萬多家登記的第三次現在只有53家通過就是說我們可以集中管理這53家那沒登錄怎麼辦我現在其實問題就是說因為登錄很少他沒有那個經過我們能量登錄的人他在銀行就沒辦法拿到所謂的帳號也就是說金管會金融單位根本就是說會排除這些金融單位要給\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 489.1, \"end\": 489.32, \"score\": 0.812}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 489.32, \"end\": 489.701, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 489.701, \"end\": 489.981, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 489.981, \"end\": 490.101, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 490.101, \"end\": 490.301, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 490.301, \"end\": 490.401, \"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 490.401, \"end\": 490.942, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"施\", \"start\": 490.942, \"end\": 491.262, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 491.262, \"end\": 491.402, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": 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能 晚 一 點 會 做 出 會 公 告 有 個 民 調 講 說\n\n5\n00:01:22,962 --> 00:01:43,884\n對 於 這 個 新 政 府 會 激 起 打 擊 詐 騙 請 問 您 對 政 府 打 擊 詐 騙 有 沒 有 信 心 不 太 有 信 心 跟 很 沒 有 信 心 的 比 例 不 太 有 信 心 的 1 7 % 很 沒 有 信 心 的 3 1 % 所 以 沒 有 信 心 的 部 分 合 體 起 來 大 概 4 8 % 我 想 問 一 下 部 長 你 對 於 這 樣 的 數 字 有 什 麼 樣 的 感 想 或 對 未 來 的 施 政 有 什 麼 樣 的 想 法\n\n6\n00:01:59,189 --> 00:01:59,209\n﹝ 廣 告 ﹞\n\n7\n00:02:39,594 --> 00:03:06,948\n我 也 是 肯 定 這 樣 的 做 法 但 是 我 要 問 部 長 一 件 事 情 現 在 就 已 經 有 內 政 部 警 政 署 的 1 6 5 全 民 防 騙 網 的 這 個 這 樣 的 功 能 那 這 個 1 6 5 全 民 防 騙 網 跟 你 即 將 推 出 的 打 詐 通 報 查 詢 網 這 之 間 有 什 麼 關 聯 性 或 者 是 這 兩 個 東 西 會 不 會 又 跌 床 架 屋 因 為 你 要 推 出 一 個 新 的 打 詐 通 報 查 詢 網 你 還 要 再 過 三 個 月 那 我 們 現 在 就 有 1 6 5 全 民 防 騙 網 當 然 是 不 同 的 部 門 但 對 民 眾 來 講\n\n8\n00:03:08,189 --> 00:03:31,655\n我 只 要 有 詐 騙 相 關 的 訊 息 我 希 望 有 一 個 單 一 的 管 道 不 管 是 查 詢 也 好 通 報 也 好 或 是 我 去 各 種 新 的 詐 騙 資 訊 也 好 民 眾 的 出 發 的 觀 點 是 希 望 說 我 就 一 個 網 站 或 是 一 個 窗 口 了 解 就 好 我 不 需 要 有 這 麼 多 網 站 所 以 我 想 問 一 下 部 長 到 底 這 個 打 詐 通 報 查 詢 網 跟 這 1 6 5 全 民 防 騙 網 未 來 是 要 整 合 呢 還 是 會 有 兩 個 網 站 的 存 在\n\n9\n00:03:32,855 --> 00:03:58,473\n報 告 委 員 那 個 你 看 這 個 就 講 很 清 楚 是 我 已 經 覺 得 這 個 訊 息 是 詐 騙 或 是 我 已 經 被 騙 了 我 在 這 邊 報 案 那 剛 剛 我 們 這 邊 是 說 你 收 到 的 訊 息 你 不 確 定 的 時 候 你 可 以 先 到 我 們 這 個 網 站 來 查 這 個 是 不 是 可 能 的 詐 騙 而 不 是 說 我 已 經 知 道 他 是 詐 騙 我 要 來 檢 舉 我 想 這 有 個 差 異 那 也 就 是 讓 民 眾 收 到 訊 息 的 時 候 他 有 個 方 式 先 來 了 解 我 現 在 收 到 訊 息 到 底 可 不 可 以 信\n\n10\n00:03:59,593 --> 00:04:19,723\n這 個 是 這 個 是 我 們 這 個 這 個 而 且 我 們 這 個 查 詢 網 會 連 結 各 個 部 位 當 然 我 們 也 會 連 結 警 政 署 的 這 個 單 位 就 是 說 我 們 已 經 看 到 這 個 訊 息 經 過 A I 的 偵 測 確 定 可 能 是 一 個 詐 騙 訊 息 不 需 要 民 眾 自 動 包 含 我 們 這 邊 就 把 我 們 看 到 的 訊 息 通 報 給 你 部 長 你 的 意 思 是 說 你 們 推 動 的 打 大 通 報 查 詢 網 是 屬 於 進 行 中 的 狀 態\n\n11\n00:04:21,083 --> 00:04:36,286\n1 6 5 全 民 防 騙 網 查 到 訊 息 以 確 定 狀 態 是 這 意 思 嗎 ? 就 是 說 民 眾 已 經 決 定 已 經 知 道 民 眾 已 經 判 斷 知 道 是 詐 騙 或 者 是 他 已 經 被 騙 了 他 來 這 邊 做 我 不 能 說 你 沒 做 事 但 是 我 還 是 要 拜 託 一 下 其 實 對 民 眾 對 我 來 講 對 本 席 來 說 這 個 詐 騙 問 題 如 果 你 能 夠 整 合 我 覺 得 是 對 民 眾 來 講 這 個 是 比 較 方 便 你 不 要 說\n\n12\n00:04:44,348 --> 00:05:09,171\n講 真 的 因 為 現 在 1 6 5 全 民 防 騙 網 已 經 推 一 段 時 間 了 大 家 有 些 想 法 跟 資 訊 他 一 定 是 先 上 1 6 5 去 查 詢 不 會 去 上 打 造 通 報 查 詢 網 來 查 詢 現 階 段 是 這 樣 子 當 然 我 們 希 望 一 個 網 站 裡 面 就 能 夠 我 們 是 一 個 入 口 啦 p o r t a l 啦 會 連 接 到 各 個 單 位 的 我 當 然 希 望 你 要 做 到 是 說 不 要 有 這 麼 多 的 版 本 就 是 就 像 部 長 剛 剛 提 到 的 這 個 打 造 通 報 查 詢 網 是 進 行 中 可 能 潛 在 的 狀 況\n\n13\n00:05:10,672 --> 00:05:37,265\n一 六 五 是 已 經 確 定 了 但 對 我 來 講 或 對 民 眾 或 對 任 何 一 個 資 訊 有 落 差 的 人 來 講 他 要 相 信 政 府 他 上 網 查 他 就 是 要 得 到 一 個 可 能 存 在 答 案 嘛 你 不 要 說 還 分 兩 個 我 這 個 上 一 六 五 查 不 到 我 再 上 打 造 通 報 找 找 查 查 看 我 希 望 這 個 事 情 是 能 夠 結 合 在 一 起 的 我 們 會 整 合 部 長 可 以 嗎 可 以 我 們 會 整 合 你 們 會 跟 內 政 部 主 管 整 合 吧 對 會 好 那 再 來 剛 剛 提 到 這 個 這 個 前 面 也 有 很 多 委 員 提 到 包 含 說 名 人 詐 騙 的 問 題\n\n14\n00:05:38,786 --> 00:05:54,839\n這 件 事 情 就 這 樣 當 初 在 推 所 謂 的 電 子 簽 章 法 的 時 候 當 時 的 數 位 也 是 跟 我 們 承 諾 說 推 動 電 子 簽 章 法 之 後 未 來 能 夠 減 少 這 種 名 人 冒 名 詐 騙 的 問 題 那 到 底 電 子 簽 章 法 已 經 正 式 三 讀 通 過 之 後 到 底 能 不 能 做 到 所 謂 防 止 名 人 詐 騙 的 問 題\n\n15\n00:05:56,252 --> 00:06:11,810\n電 子 簽 證 法 讓 我 們 有 個 機 制 能 夠 做 數 位 簽 章 來 做 就 確 認 是 K Y C 可 是 那 個 剛 剛 講 我 像 比 如 說 網 告 平 台 商 他 要 不 要 用 數 位 簽 章 需 要 另 一 個 法 來 要 求 他 們 一 定 要 做 這 個 事 情 那 這 個 法 就 是 我 們 現 在 在 進 行 的 打 詐 裝 法\n\n16\n00:06:12,662 --> 00:06:26,577\n那 這 個 如 果 通 過 的 話 他 必 須 廣 告 必 須 要 做 實 名 制 那 實 名 制 一 個 方 法 就 是 用 電 子 簽 方 數 位 簽 章 來 做 認 證 這 個 是 一 個 方 法 那 這 個 罰 你 是 罰 這 個 廣 告 商 還 是 罰 平 台 業 者\n\n17\n00:06:28,660 --> 00:06:47,564\n對 , 這 個 我 們 如 果 . . . 推 動 了 新 的 法 律 你 要 罰 的 是 誰 ? 對 , 他 如 果 沒 有 配 合 我 們 做 這 個 剛 講 打 詐 的 話 平 台 上 是 要 被 罰 對 , 沒 錯 所 以 未 來 有 機 會 因 為 我 很 期 待 說 什 麼 時 候 你 去 罰 包 括 F a c e b o o k 也 好 G o o g l e 也 好 這 些 跨 國 公 司 因 為 他 們 在 台 灣 到 目 前 為 止 這 麼 詐 騙 案 例 這 麼 氾 濫\n\n18\n00:06:50,345 --> 00:07:13,292\n不 管 臉 書 也 好 、 L I N E 也 好 、 G o o g l e 也 好 他 們 是 主 要 的 詐 騙 的 平 台 當 然 你 要 罰 內 容 產 製 者 是 沒 問 題 但 是 我 要 問 的 是 說 這 些 平 台 他 到 底 有 沒 有 義 務 去 規 範 那 他 如 果 沒 有 達 到 我 們 法 律 要 求 他 們 有 去 規 範 那 我 們 的 政 府 什 麼 時 候 才 會 對 F a c e b o o k 也 好 或 對 G o o g l e 或 對 Y o u T u b e 或 對 L I N E 也 好 開 出 第 一 張 罰 單 目 前 有 開 過 罰 單 嗎 目 前 都 沒 有 嘛\n\n19\n00:07:14,592 --> 00:07:32,070\n打 詐 裝 法 通 過 我 們 就 可 以 他 如 果 沒 有 配 合 做 剛 剛 講 這 些 事 情 配 合 下 架 或 者 處 理 或 是 他 沒 有 做 K Y C 沒 有 做 這 個 實 名 制 的 認 證 的 話 我 們 就 可 以 給 他 裁 法 對 阿 這 個 當 然 要 還 是 要 有 法 所 以 法 的 部 分 就 是 剛 剛 講 的 打 詐 裝 法 通 過 之 後 我 們 會 做 這 個 事 情\n\n20\n00:07:32,290 --> 00:07:46,455\n好 部 長 所 以 打 造 專 法 通 過 之 後 包 含 F a c e b o o k 這 個 公 司 他 也 會 在 你 們 的 裁 罰 範 圍 裡 面 不 會 只 有 什 麼 平 台 業 不 會 只 有 所 謂 的 代 理 商 廣 告 業 者 被 罰 連 這 個 平 台 本 身 都 被 罰 嗎 ? 對 對 對 好 部 長 那 最 後 一 個 問 題\n\n21\n00:07:49,517 --> 00:08:08,620\n這 個 你 在 捲 包 裡 面 提 到 所 謂 的 這 個 第 三 方 支 付 也 是 你 們 的 管 制 的 這 個 目 標 但 是 因 為 第 三 方 支 付 跟 電 子 支 付 不 一 樣 電 子 支 付 有 金 管 會 的 問 金 管 會 要 認 證 才 有 電 子 支 付 第 三 方 支 付 平 台 他 是 很 多 很 多 有 幾 千 間 幾 百 間 這 個 平 台 業 者 是 所 有 的 你 們 都 有 能 力 能 量 去 追 查 嗎 還 是 要 透 過 其 他 方 式\n\n22\n00:08:09,100 --> 00:08:34,142\n我 們 已 經 在 第 三 次 已 經 實 施 比 如 說 那 個 能 量 登 錄 能 量 登 錄 已 經 讓 我 們 這 1 萬 多 家 登 記 的 第 三 次 現 在 只 有 5 3 家 通 過 就 是 說 我 們 可 以 集 中 管 理 這 5 3 家 那 沒 登 錄 怎 麼 辦 我 現 在 其 實 問 題 就 是 說 因 為 登 錄 很 少 他 沒 有 那 個 經 過 我 們 能 量 登 錄 的 人 他 在 銀 行 就 沒 辦 法 拿 到 所 謂 的 帳 號 也 就 是 說 金 管 會 金 融 單 位 根 本 就 是 說 會 排 除 這 些 金 融 單 位 要 給\n\n23\n00:08:35,383 --> 00:08:58,706\n這 個 第 三 方 支 付 的 業 者 的 所 謂 的 虛 擬 帳 號 必 須 是 有 能 量 登 錄 過 的 人 那 能 量 過 的 人 他 要 做 什 麼 事 情 他 要 確 認 他 來 登 廣 告 或 是 他 要 申 請 這 個 虛 擬 帳 號 的 人 必 須 是 實 名 制 也 就 是 說 他 必 須 是 真 正 的 所 以 就 是 這 個 讓 很 多 詐 騙 的 人 不 敢 再 就 沒 有 辦 法 再 通 過 我 們 認 證 過 的 5 3 家 的 這 個 第 三 方 支 付 去 要 拿 到 所 謂 的 虛 擬 帳 號\n\n24\n00:08:59,787 --> 00:09:15,119\n於 這 個 方 式 來 斷 絕 這 些 剛 才 講 過 去 的 一 些 網 絡 詐 騙 那 從 這 樣 的 一 個 歷 史 我 們 已 經 看 到 這 個 詐 騙 數 目 相 加 了 非 常 多 從 以 前 一 個 多 月 的 是 這 個 你 不 可 以 補 充 一 下 這 個 數 字 第 三 方 之 後 這 個 也 要 謝 謝 金 管 會 他 主 導 都 虛 擬 帳 號 那 現 在 他\n\n25\n00:09:17,361 --> 00:09:17,601\n黃 健 豪 委 員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4875\t7849\t好謝謝主席那我們請速發部黃部長請黃部長\n16780\t44567\t部長好部長首先還是要肯定部長在上任之初提出的政策三支箭第一個就是打詐那當然它包含發展數位經濟產業跟數位韌性那我想這個發展數位經濟產業跟數位韌性這當然是這部裡面的一個主要業務但是我想民眾包含說民意代表這邊大家最關心的還是這個打詐的問題因為這個打詐問題其實真的非常嚴重光是這個地方的警察局地方派出所\n45607\t56917\t在我選區裡面派出所剛好這兩天要來質詢我了解一下實務狀況派出所大概每天每天喔每一個派出所大概可以收到5到6件詐騙的這個\n58356\t81122\t的這個通報或者報案這個是有案的有的可能被騙還不知道沒有來報案的光是每天就有5到6案這個這個這個案子所以去詐騙自己對於臺灣的這個民生經濟影響非常非常重大好那我想部長你剛上任啊也不能太太苛求但是我想讓你知道個數字有一個媒體可能晚一點會做出會公告有個民調講說\n82962\t103884\t對於這個新政府會激起打擊詐騙請問您對政府打擊詐騙有沒有信心不太有信心跟很沒有信心的比例不太有信心的17%很沒有信心的31%所以沒有信心的部分合體起來大概48%我想問一下部長你對於這樣的數字有什麼樣的感想或對未來的施政有什麼樣的想法\n104189\t119189\t﹗﹗\n119189\t119209\t﹝廣告﹞\n142705\t159514\t議員．\n159594\t186948\t我也是肯定這樣的做法但是我要問部長一件事情現在就已經有內政部警政署的165全民防騙網的這個這樣的功能那這個165全民防騙網跟你即將推出的打詐通報查詢網這之間有什麼關聯性或者是這兩個東西會不會又跌床架屋因為你要推出一個新的打詐通報查詢網你還要再過三個月那我們現在就有165全民防騙網當然是不同的部門但對民眾來講\n188189\t211655\t我只要有詐騙相關的訊息我希望有一個單一的管道不管是查詢也好通報也好或是我去各種新的詐騙資訊也好民眾的出發的觀點是希望說我就一個網站或是一個窗口了解就好我不需要有這麼多網站所以我想問一下部長到底這個打詐通報查詢網跟這165全民防騙網未來是要整合呢還是會有兩個網站的存在\n212855\t238473\t報告委員那個你看這個就講很清楚是我已經覺得這個訊息是詐騙或是我已經被騙了我在這邊報案那剛剛我們這邊是說你收到的訊息你不確定的時候你可以先到我們這個網站來查這個是不是可能的詐騙而不是說我已經知道他是詐騙我要來檢舉我想這有個差異那也就是讓民眾收到訊息的時候他有個方式先來了解我現在收到訊息到底可不可以信\n239593\t259723\t這個是這個是我們這個這個而且我們這個查詢網會連結各個部位當然我們也會連結警政署的這個單位就是說我們已經看到這個訊息經過AI的偵測確定可能是一個詐騙訊息不需要民眾自動包含我們這邊就把我們看到的訊息通報給你部長你的意思是說你們推動的打大通報查詢網是屬於進行中的狀態\n261083\t276286\t165全民防騙網查到訊息以確定狀態是這意思嗎?就是說民眾已經決定已經知道民眾已經判斷知道是詐騙或者是他已經被騙了他來這邊做我不能說你沒做事但是我還是要拜託一下其實對民眾對我來講對本席來說這個詐騙問題如果你能夠整合我覺得是對民眾來講這個是比較方便你不要說\n284348\t309171\t講真的因為現在165全民防騙網已經推一段時間了大家有些想法跟資訊他一定是先上165去查詢不會去上打造通報查詢網來查詢現階段是這樣子當然我們希望一個網站裡面就能夠我們是一個入口啦portal啦會連接到各個單位的我當然希望你要做到是說不要有這麼多的版本就是就像部長剛剛提到的這個打造通報查詢網是進行中可能潛在的狀況\n310672\t337265\t一六五是已經確定了但對我來講或對民眾或對任何一個資訊有落差的人來講他要相信政府他上網查他就是要得到一個可能存在答案嘛你不要說還分兩個我這個上一六五查不到我再上打造通報找找查查看我希望這個事情是能夠結合在一起的我們會整合部長可以嗎可以我們會整合你們會跟內政部主管整合吧對會好那再來剛剛提到這個這個前面也有很多委員提到包含說名人詐騙的問題\n338786\t354839\t這件事情就這樣當初在推所謂的電子簽章法的時候當時的數位也是跟我們承諾說推動電子簽章法之後未來能夠減少這種名人冒名詐騙的問題那到底電子簽章法已經正式三讀通過之後到底能不能做到所謂防止名人詐騙的問題\n356252\t371810\t電子簽證法讓我們有個機制能夠做數位簽章來做就確認是KYC可是那個剛剛講我像比如說網告平台商他要不要用數位簽章需要另一個法來要求他們一定要做這個事情那這個法就是我們現在在進行的打詐裝法\n372662\t386577\t那這個如果通過的話他必須廣告必須要做實名制那實名制一個方法就是用電子簽方數位簽章來做認證這個是一個方法那這個罰你是罰這個廣告商還是罰平台業者\n388660\t407564\t對,這個我們如果...推動了新的法律你要罰的是誰?對,他如果沒有配合我們做這個剛講打詐的話平台上是要被罰對,沒錯所以未來有機會因為我很期待說什麼時候你去罰包括Facebook也好Google也好這些跨國公司因為他們在台灣到目前為止這麼詐騙案例這麼氾濫\n410345\t433292\t不管臉書也好、LINE也好、Google也好他們是主要的詐騙的平台當然你要罰內容產製者是沒問題但是我要問的是說這些平台他到底有沒有義務去規範那他如果沒有達到我們法律要求他們有去規範那我們的政府什麼時候才會對Facebook也好或對Google或對YouTube或對LINE也好開出第一張罰單目前有開過罰單嗎目前都沒有嘛\n434592\t452070\t打詐裝法通過我們就可以他如果沒有配合做剛剛講這些事情配合下架或者處理或是他沒有做KYC沒有做這個實名制的認證的話我們就可以給他裁法對阿這個當然要還是要有法所以法的部分就是剛剛講的打詐裝法通過之後我們會做這個事情\n452290\t466455\t好部長所以打造專法通過之後包含Facebook這個公司他也會在你們的裁罰範圍裡面不會只有什麼平台業不會只有所謂的代理商廣告業者被罰連這個平台本身都被罰嗎?對對對好部長那最後一個問題\n469517\t488620\t這個你在捲包裡面提到所謂的這個第三方支付也是你們的管制的這個目標但是因為第三方支付跟電子支付不一樣電子支付有金管會的問金管會要認證才有電子支付第三方支付平台他是很多很多有幾千間幾百間這個平台業者是所有的你們都有能力能量去追查嗎還是要透過其他方式\n489100\t514142\t我們已經在第三次已經實施比如說那個能量登錄能量登錄已經讓我們這1萬多家登記的第三次現在只有53家通過就是說我們可以集中管理這53家那沒登錄怎麼辦我現在其實問題就是說因為登錄很少他沒有那個經過我們能量登錄的人他在銀行就沒辦法拿到所謂的帳號也就是說金管會金融單位根本就是說會排除這些金融單位要給\n515383\t538706\t這個第三方支付的業者的所謂的虛擬帳號必須是有能量登錄過的人那能量過的人他要做什麼事情他要確認他來登廣告或是他要申請這個虛擬帳號的人必須是實名制也就是說他必須是真正的所以就是這個讓很多詐騙的人不敢再就沒有辦法再通過我們認證過的53家的這個第三方支付去要拿到所謂的虛擬帳號\n539787\t555119\t於這個方式來斷絕這些剛才講過去的一些網絡詐騙那從這樣的一個歷史我們已經看到這個詐騙數目相加了非常多從以前一個多月的是這個你不可以補充一下這個數字第三方之後這個也要謝謝金管會他主導都虛擬帳號那現在他\n557361\t557601\t黃健豪委員\n","txt":"好謝謝主席那我們請速發部黃部長請黃部長\n部長好部長首先還是要肯定部長在上任之初提出的政策三支箭第一個就是打詐那當然它包含發展數位經濟產業跟數位韌性那我想這個發展數位經濟產業跟數位韌性這當然是這部裡面的一個主要業務但是我想民眾包含說民意代表這邊大家最關心的還是這個打詐的問題因為這個打詐問題其實真的非常嚴重光是這個地方的警察局地方派出所\n在我選區裡面派出所剛好這兩天要來質詢我了解一下實務狀況派出所大概每天每天喔每一個派出所大概可以收到5到6件詐騙的這個\n的這個通報或者報案這個是有案的有的可能被騙還不知道沒有來報案的光是每天就有5到6案這個這個這個案子所以去詐騙自己對於臺灣的這個民生經濟影響非常非常重大好那我想部長你剛上任啊也不能太太苛求但是我想讓你知道個數字有一個媒體可能晚一點會做出會公告有個民調講說\n對於這個新政府會激起打擊詐騙請問您對政府打擊詐騙有沒有信心不太有信心跟很沒有信心的比例不太有信心的17%很沒有信心的31%所以沒有信心的部分合體起來大概48%我想問一下部長你對於這樣的數字有什麼樣的感想或對未來的施政有什麼樣的想法\n﹗﹗\n﹝廣告﹞\n議員．\n我也是肯定這樣的做法但是我要問部長一件事情現在就已經有內政部警政署的165全民防騙網的這個這樣的功能那這個165全民防騙網跟你即將推出的打詐通報查詢網這之間有什麼關聯性或者是這兩個東西會不會又跌床架屋因為你要推出一個新的打詐通報查詢網你還要再過三個月那我們現在就有165全民防騙網當然是不同的部門但對民眾來講\n我只要有詐騙相關的訊息我希望有一個單一的管道不管是查詢也好通報也好或是我去各種新的詐騙資訊也好民眾的出發的觀點是希望說我就一個網站或是一個窗口了解就好我不需要有這麼多網站所以我想問一下部長到底這個打詐通報查詢網跟這165全民防騙網未來是要整合呢還是會有兩個網站的存在\n報告委員那個你看這個就講很清楚是我已經覺得這個訊息是詐騙或是我已經被騙了我在這邊報案那剛剛我們這邊是說你收到的訊息你不確定的時候你可以先到我們這個網站來查這個是不是可能的詐騙而不是說我已經知道他是詐騙我要來檢舉我想這有個差異那也就是讓民眾收到訊息的時候他有個方式先來了解我現在收到訊息到底可不可以信\n這個是這個是我們這個這個而且我們這個查詢網會連結各個部位當然我們也會連結警政署的這個單位就是說我們已經看到這個訊息經過AI的偵測確定可能是一個詐騙訊息不需要民眾自動包含我們這邊就把我們看到的訊息通報給你部長你的意思是說你們推動的打大通報查詢網是屬於進行中的狀態\n165全民防騙網查到訊息以確定狀態是這意思嗎?就是說民眾已經決定已經知道民眾已經判斷知道是詐騙或者是他已經被騙了他來這邊做我不能說你沒做事但是我還是要拜託一下其實對民眾對我來講對本席來說這個詐騙問題如果你能夠整合我覺得是對民眾來講這個是比較方便你不要說\n講真的因為現在165全民防騙網已經推一段時間了大家有些想法跟資訊他一定是先上165去查詢不會去上打造通報查詢網來查詢現階段是這樣子當然我們希望一個網站裡面就能夠我們是一個入口啦portal啦會連接到各個單位的我當然希望你要做到是說不要有這麼多的版本就是就像部長剛剛提到的這個打造通報查詢網是進行中可能潛在的狀況\n一六五是已經確定了但對我來講或對民眾或對任何一個資訊有落差的人來講他要相信政府他上網查他就是要得到一個可能存在答案嘛你不要說還分兩個我這個上一六五查不到我再上打造通報找找查查看我希望這個事情是能夠結合在一起的我們會整合部長可以嗎可以我們會整合你們會跟內政部主管整合吧對會好那再來剛剛提到這個這個前面也有很多委員提到包含說名人詐騙的問題\n這件事情就這樣當初在推所謂的電子簽章法的時候當時的數位也是跟我們承諾說推動電子簽章法之後未來能夠減少這種名人冒名詐騙的問題那到底電子簽章法已經正式三讀通過之後到底能不能做到所謂防止名人詐騙的問題\n電子簽證法讓我們有個機制能夠做數位簽章來做就確認是KYC可是那個剛剛講我像比如說網告平台商他要不要用數位簽章需要另一個法來要求他們一定要做這個事情那這個法就是我們現在在進行的打詐裝法\n那這個如果通過的話他必須廣告必須要做實名制那實名制一個方法就是用電子簽方數位簽章來做認證這個是一個方法那這個罰你是罰這個廣告商還是罰平台業者\n對,這個我們如果...推動了新的法律你要罰的是誰?對,他如果沒有配合我們做這個剛講打詐的話平台上是要被罰對,沒錯所以未來有機會因為我很期待說什麼時候你去罰包括Facebook也好Google也好這些跨國公司因為他們在台灣到目前為止這麼詐騙案例這麼氾濫\n不管臉書也好、LINE也好、Google也好他們是主要的詐騙的平台當然你要罰內容產製者是沒問題但是我要問的是說這些平台他到底有沒有義務去規範那他如果沒有達到我們法律要求他們有去規範那我們的政府什麼時候才會對Facebook也好或對Google或對YouTube或對LINE也好開出第一張罰單目前有開過罰單嗎目前都沒有嘛\n打詐裝法通過我們就可以他如果沒有配合做剛剛講這些事情配合下架或者處理或是他沒有做KYC沒有做這個實名制的認證的話我們就可以給他裁法對阿這個當然要還是要有法所以法的部分就是剛剛講的打詐裝法通過之後我們會做這個事情\n好部長所以打造專法通過之後包含Facebook這個公司他也會在你們的裁罰範圍裡面不會只有什麼平台業不會只有所謂的代理商廣告業者被罰連這個平台本身都被罰嗎?對對對好部長那最後一個問題\n這個你在捲包裡面提到所謂的這個第三方支付也是你們的管制的這個目標但是因為第三方支付跟電子支付不一樣電子支付有金管會的問金管會要認證才有電子支付第三方支付平台他是很多很多有幾千間幾百間這個平台業者是所有的你們都有能力能量去追查嗎還是要透過其他方式\n我們已經在第三次已經實施比如說那個能量登錄能量登錄已經讓我們這1萬多家登記的第三次現在只有53家通過就是說我們可以集中管理這53家那沒登錄怎麼辦我現在其實問題就是說因為登錄很少他沒有那個經過我們能量登錄的人他在銀行就沒辦法拿到所謂的帳號也就是說金管會金融單位根本就是說會排除這些金融單位要給\n這個第三方支付的業者的所謂的虛擬帳號必須是有能量登錄過的人那能量過的人他要做什麼事情他要確認他來登廣告或是他要申請這個虛擬帳號的人必須是實名制也就是說他必須是真正的所以就是這個讓很多詐騙的人不敢再就沒有辦法再通過我們認證過的53家的這個第三方支付去要拿到所謂的虛擬帳號\n於這個方式來斷絕這些剛才講過去的一些網絡詐騙那從這樣的一個歷史我們已經看到這個詐騙數目相加了非常多從以前一個多月的是這個你不可以補充一下這個數字第三方之後這個也要謝謝金管會他主導都虛擬帳號那現在他\n黃健豪委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.875 --> 00:07.849\n好 謝 謝 主 席 那 我 們 請 速 發 部 黃 部 長 請 黃 部 長\n\n00:16.780 --> 00:44.567\n部 長 好 部 長 首 先 還 是 要 肯 定 部 長 在 上 任 之 初 提 出 的 政 策 三 支 箭 第 一 個 就 是 打 詐 那 當 然 它 包 含 發 展 數 位 經 濟 產 業 跟 數 位 韌 性 那 我 想 這 個 發 展 數 位 經 濟 產 業 跟 數 位 韌 性 這 當 然 是 這 部 裡 面 的 一 個 主 要 業 務 但 是 我 想 民 眾 包 含 說 民 意 代 表 這 邊 大 家 最 關 心 的 還 是 這 個 打 詐 的 問 題 因 為 這 個 打 詐 問 題 其 實 真 的 非 常 嚴 重 光 是 這 個 地 方 的 警 察 局 地 方 派 出 所\n\n00:45.607 --> 00:56.917\n在 我 選 區 裡 面 派 出 所 剛 好 這 兩 天 要 來 質 詢 我 了 解 一 下 實 務 狀 況 派 出 所 大 概 每 天 每 天 喔 每 一 個 派 出 所 大 概 可 以 收 到 5 到 6 件 詐 騙 的 這 個\n\n00:58.356 --> 01:21.122\n的 這 個 通 報 或 者 報 案 這 個 是 有 案 的 有 的 可 能 被 騙 還 不 知 道 沒 有 來 報 案 的 光 是 每 天 就 有 5 到 6 案 這 個 這 個 這 個 案 子 所 以 去 詐 騙 自 己 對 於 臺 灣 的 這 個 民 生 經 濟 影 響 非 常 非 常 重 大 好 那 我 想 部 長 你 剛 上 任 啊 也 不 能 太 太 苛 求 但 是 我 想 讓 你 知 道 個 數 字 有 一 個 媒 體 可 能 晚 一 點 會 做 出 會 公 告 有 個 民 調 講 說\n\n01:22.962 --> 01:43.884\n對 於 這 個 新 政 府 會 激 起 打 擊 詐 騙 請 問 您 對 政 府 打 擊 詐 騙 有 沒 有 信 心 不 太 有 信 心 跟 很 沒 有 信 心 的 比 例 不 太 有 信 心 的 1 7 % 很 沒 有 信 心 的 3 1 % 所 以 沒 有 信 心 的 部 分 合 體 起 來 大 概 4 8 % 我 想 問 一 下 部 長 你 對 於 這 樣 的 數 字 有 什 麼 樣 的 感 想 或 對 未 來 的 施 政 有 什 麼 樣 的 想 法\n\n01:59.189 --> 01:59.209\n﹝ 廣 告 ﹞\n\n02:39.594 --> 03:06.948\n我 也 是 肯 定 這 樣 的 做 法 但 是 我 要 問 部 長 一 件 事 情 現 在 就 已 經 有 內 政 部 警 政 署 的 1 6 5 全 民 防 騙 網 的 這 個 這 樣 的 功 能 那 這 個 1 6 5 全 民 防 騙 網 跟 你 即 將 推 出 的 打 詐 通 報 查 詢 網 這 之 間 有 什 麼 關 聯 性 或 者 是 這 兩 個 東 西 會 不 會 又 跌 床 架 屋 因 為 你 要 推 出 一 個 新 的 打 詐 通 報 查 詢 網 你 還 要 再 過 三 個 月 那 我 們 現 在 就 有 1 6 5 全 民 防 騙 網 當 然 是 不 同 的 部 門 但 對 民 眾 來 講\n\n03:08.189 --> 03:31.655\n我 只 要 有 詐 騙 相 關 的 訊 息 我 希 望 有 一 個 單 一 的 管 道 不 管 是 查 詢 也 好 通 報 也 好 或 是 我 去 各 種 新 的 詐 騙 資 訊 也 好 民 眾 的 出 發 的 觀 點 是 希 望 說 我 就 一 個 網 站 或 是 一 個 窗 口 了 解 就 好 我 不 需 要 有 這 麼 多 網 站 所 以 我 想 問 一 下 部 長 到 底 這 個 打 詐 通 報 查 詢 網 跟 這 1 6 5 全 民 防 騙 網 未 來 是 要 整 合 呢 還 是 會 有 兩 個 網 站 的 存 在\n\n03:32.855 --> 03:58.473\n報 告 委 員 那 個 你 看 這 個 就 講 很 清 楚 是 我 已 經 覺 得 這 個 訊 息 是 詐 騙 或 是 我 已 經 被 騙 了 我 在 這 邊 報 案 那 剛 剛 我 們 這 邊 是 說 你 收 到 的 訊 息 你 不 確 定 的 時 候 你 可 以 先 到 我 們 這 個 網 站 來 查 這 個 是 不 是 可 能 的 詐 騙 而 不 是 說 我 已 經 知 道 他 是 詐 騙 我 要 來 檢 舉 我 想 這 有 個 差 異 那 也 就 是 讓 民 眾 收 到 訊 息 的 時 候 他 有 個 方 式 先 來 了 解 我 現 在 收 到 訊 息 到 底 可 不 可 以 信\n\n03:59.593 --> 04:19.723\n這 個 是 這 個 是 我 們 這 個 這 個 而 且 我 們 這 個 查 詢 網 會 連 結 各 個 部 位 當 然 我 們 也 會 連 結 警 政 署 的 這 個 單 位 就 是 說 我 們 已 經 看 到 這 個 訊 息 經 過 A I 的 偵 測 確 定 可 能 是 一 個 詐 騙 訊 息 不 需 要 民 眾 自 動 包 含 我 們 這 邊 就 把 我 們 看 到 的 訊 息 通 報 給 你 部 長 你 的 意 思 是 說 你 們 推 動 的 打 大 通 報 查 詢 網 是 屬 於 進 行 中 的 狀 態\n\n04:21.083 --> 04:36.286\n1 6 5 全 民 防 騙 網 查 到 訊 息 以 確 定 狀 態 是 這 意 思 嗎 ? 就 是 說 民 眾 已 經 決 定 已 經 知 道 民 眾 已 經 判 斷 知 道 是 詐 騙 或 者 是 他 已 經 被 騙 了 他 來 這 邊 做 我 不 能 說 你 沒 做 事 但 是 我 還 是 要 拜 託 一 下 其 實 對 民 眾 對 我 來 講 對 本 席 來 說 這 個 詐 騙 問 題 如 果 你 能 夠 整 合 我 覺 得 是 對 民 眾 來 講 這 個 是 比 較 方 便 你 不 要 說\n\n04:44.348 --> 05:09.171\n講 真 的 因 為 現 在 1 6 5 全 民 防 騙 網 已 經 推 一 段 時 間 了 大 家 有 些 想 法 跟 資 訊 他 一 定 是 先 上 1 6 5 去 查 詢 不 會 去 上 打 造 通 報 查 詢 網 來 查 詢 現 階 段 是 這 樣 子 當 然 我 們 希 望 一 個 網 站 裡 面 就 能 夠 我 們 是 一 個 入 口 啦 p o r t a l 啦 會 連 接 到 各 個 單 位 的 我 當 然 希 望 你 要 做 到 是 說 不 要 有 這 麼 多 的 版 本 就 是 就 像 部 長 剛 剛 提 到 的 這 個 打 造 通 報 查 詢 網 是 進 行 中 可 能 潛 在 的 狀 況\n\n05:10.672 --> 05:37.265\n一 六 五 是 已 經 確 定 了 但 對 我 來 講 或 對 民 眾 或 對 任 何 一 個 資 訊 有 落 差 的 人 來 講 他 要 相 信 政 府 他 上 網 查 他 就 是 要 得 到 一 個 可 能 存 在 答 案 嘛 你 不 要 說 還 分 兩 個 我 這 個 上 一 六 五 查 不 到 我 再 上 打 造 通 報 找 找 查 查 看 我 希 望 這 個 事 情 是 能 夠 結 合 在 一 起 的 我 們 會 整 合 部 長 可 以 嗎 可 以 我 們 會 整 合 你 們 會 跟 內 政 部 主 管 整 合 吧 對 會 好 那 再 來 剛 剛 提 到 這 個 這 個 前 面 也 有 很 多 委 員 提 到 包 含 說 名 人 詐 騙 的 問 題\n\n05:38.786 --> 05:54.839\n這 件 事 情 就 這 樣 當 初 在 推 所 謂 的 電 子 簽 章 法 的 時 候 當 時 的 數 位 也 是 跟 我 們 承 諾 說 推 動 電 子 簽 章 法 之 後 未 來 能 夠 減 少 這 種 名 人 冒 名 詐 騙 的 問 題 那 到 底 電 子 簽 章 法 已 經 正 式 三 讀 通 過 之 後 到 底 能 不 能 做 到 所 謂 防 止 名 人 詐 騙 的 問 題\n\n05:56.252 --> 06:11.810\n電 子 簽 證 法 讓 我 們 有 個 機 制 能 夠 做 數 位 簽 章 來 做 就 確 認 是 K Y C 可 是 那 個 剛 剛 講 我 像 比 如 說 網 告 平 台 商 他 要 不 要 用 數 位 簽 章 需 要 另 一 個 法 來 要 求 他 們 一 定 要 做 這 個 事 情 那 這 個 法 就 是 我 們 現 在 在 進 行 的 打 詐 裝 法\n\n06:12.662 --> 06:26.577\n那 這 個 如 果 通 過 的 話 他 必 須 廣 告 必 須 要 做 實 名 制 那 實 名 制 一 個 方 法 就 是 用 電 子 簽 方 數 位 簽 章 來 做 認 證 這 個 是 一 個 方 法 那 這 個 罰 你 是 罰 這 個 廣 告 商 還 是 罰 平 台 業 者\n\n06:28.660 --> 06:47.564\n對 , 這 個 我 們 如 果 . . . 推 動 了 新 的 法 律 你 要 罰 的 是 誰 ? 對 , 他 如 果 沒 有 配 合 我 們 做 這 個 剛 講 打 詐 的 話 平 台 上 是 要 被 罰 對 , 沒 錯 所 以 未 來 有 機 會 因 為 我 很 期 待 說 什 麼 時 候 你 去 罰 包 括 F a c e b o o k 也 好 G o o g l e 也 好 這 些 跨 國 公 司 因 為 他 們 在 台 灣 到 目 前 為 止 這 麼 詐 騙 案 例 這 麼 氾 濫\n\n06:50.345 --> 07:13.292\n不 管 臉 書 也 好 、 L I N E 也 好 、 G o o g l e 也 好 他 們 是 主 要 的 詐 騙 的 平 台 當 然 你 要 罰 內 容 產 製 者 是 沒 問 題 但 是 我 要 問 的 是 說 這 些 平 台 他 到 底 有 沒 有 義 務 去 規 範 那 他 如 果 沒 有 達 到 我 們 法 律 要 求 他 們 有 去 規 範 那 我 們 的 政 府 什 麼 時 候 才 會 對 F a c e b o o k 也 好 或 對 G o o g l e 或 對 Y o u T u b e 或 對 L I N E 也 好 開 出 第 一 張 罰 單 目 前 有 開 過 罰 單 嗎 目 前 都 沒 有 嘛\n\n07:14.592 --> 07:32.070\n打 詐 裝 法 通 過 我 們 就 可 以 他 如 果 沒 有 配 合 做 剛 剛 講 這 些 事 情 配 合 下 架 或 者 處 理 或 是 他 沒 有 做 K Y C 沒 有 做 這 個 實 名 制 的 認 證 的 話 我 們 就 可 以 給 他 裁 法 對 阿 這 個 當 然 要 還 是 要 有 法 所 以 法 的 部 分 就 是 剛 剛 講 的 打 詐 裝 法 通 過 之 後 我 們 會 做 這 個 事 情\n\n07:32.290 --> 07:46.455\n好 部 長 所 以 打 造 專 法 通 過 之 後 包 含 F a c e b o o k 這 個 公 司 他 也 會 在 你 們 的 裁 罰 範 圍 裡 面 不 會 只 有 什 麼 平 台 業 不 會 只 有 所 謂 的 代 理 商 廣 告 業 者 被 罰 連 這 個 平 台 本 身 都 被 罰 嗎 ? 對 對 對 好 部 長 那 最 後 一 個 問 題\n\n07:49.517 --> 08:08.620\n這 個 你 在 捲 包 裡 面 提 到 所 謂 的 這 個 第 三 方 支 付 也 是 你 們 的 管 制 的 這 個 目 標 但 是 因 為 第 三 方 支 付 跟 電 子 支 付 不 一 樣 電 子 支 付 有 金 管 會 的 問 金 管 會 要 認 證 才 有 電 子 支 付 第 三 方 支 付 平 台 他 是 很 多 很 多 有 幾 千 間 幾 百 間 這 個 平 台 業 者 是 所 有 的 你 們 都 有 能 力 能 量 去 追 查 嗎 還 是 要 透 過 其 他 方 式\n\n08:09.100 --> 08:34.142\n我 們 已 經 在 第 三 次 已 經 實 施 比 如 說 那 個 能 量 登 錄 能 量 登 錄 已 經 讓 我 們 這 1 萬 多 家 登 記 的 第 三 次 現 在 只 有 5 3 家 通 過 就 是 說 我 們 可 以 集 中 管 理 這 5 3 家 那 沒 登 錄 怎 麼 辦 我 現 在 其 實 問 題 就 是 說 因 為 登 錄 很 少 他 沒 有 那 個 經 過 我 們 能 量 登 錄 的 人 他 在 銀 行 就 沒 辦 法 拿 到 所 謂 的 帳 號 也 就 是 說 金 管 會 金 融 單 位 根 本 就 是 說 會 排 除 這 些 金 融 單 位 要 給\n\n08:35.383 --> 08:58.706\n這 個 第 三 方 支 付 的 業 者 的 所 謂 的 虛 擬 帳 號 必 須 是 有 能 量 登 錄 過 的 人 那 能 量 過 的 人 他 要 做 什 麼 事 情 他 要 確 認 他 來 登 廣 告 或 是 他 要 申 請 這 個 虛 擬 帳 號 的 人 必 須 是 實 名 制 也 就 是 說 他 必 須 是 真 正 的 所 以 就 是 這 個 讓 很 多 詐 騙 的 人 不 敢 再 就 沒 有 辦 法 再 通 過 我 們 認 證 過 的 5 3 家 的 這 個 第 三 方 支 付 去 要 拿 到 所 謂 的 虛 擬 帳 號\n\n08:59.787 --> 09:15.119\n於 這 個 方 式 來 斷 絕 這 些 剛 才 講 過 去 的 一 些 網 絡 詐 騙 那 從 這 樣 的 一 個 歷 史 我 們 已 經 看 到 這 個 詐 騙 數 目 相 加 了 非 常 多 從 以 前 一 個 多 月 的 是 這 個 你 不 可 以 補 充 一 下 這 個 數 字 第 三 方 之 後 這 個 也 要 謝 謝 金 管 會 他 主 導 都 虛 擬 帳 號 那 現 在 他\n\n09:17.361 --> 09:17.601\n黃 健 豪 委 員\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.875,"end":7.849,"text":"好謝謝主席那我們請速發部黃部長請黃部長"},{"start":16.78,"end":44.567,"text":"部長好部長首先還是要肯定部長在上任之初提出的政策三支箭第一個就是打詐那當然它包含發展數位經濟產業跟數位韌性那我想這個發展數位經濟產業跟數位韌性這當然是這部裡面的一個主要業務但是我想民眾包含說民意代表這邊大家最關心的還是這個打詐的問題因為這個打詐問題其實真的非常嚴重光是這個地方的警察局地方派出所"},{"start":45.607,"end":56.917,"text":"在我選區裡面派出所剛好這兩天要來質詢我了解一下實務狀況派出所大概每天每天喔每一個派出所大概可以收到5到6件詐騙的這個"},{"start":58.356,"end":81.122,"text":"的這個通報或者報案這個是有案的有的可能被騙還不知道沒有來報案的光是每天就有5到6案這個這個這個案子所以去詐騙自己對於臺灣的這個民生經濟影響非常非常重大好那我想部長你剛上任啊也不能太太苛求但是我想讓你知道個數字有一個媒體可能晚一點會做出會公告有個民調講說"},{"start":82.962,"end":103.884,"text":"對於這個新政府會激起打擊詐騙請問您對政府打擊詐騙有沒有信心不太有信心跟很沒有信心的比例不太有信心的17%很沒有信心的31%所以沒有信心的部分合體起來大概48%我想問一下部長你對於這樣的數字有什麼樣的感想或對未來的施政有什麼樣的想法"},{"start":104.189,"end":119.189,"text":"﹗﹗"},{"start":119.189,"end":119.209,"text":" ﹝廣告﹞"},{"start":142.705,"end":159.514,"text":"議員．"},{"start":159.594,"end":186.948,"text":"我也是肯定這樣的做法但是我要問部長一件事情現在就已經有內政部警政署的165全民防騙網的這個這樣的功能那這個165全民防騙網跟你即將推出的打詐通報查詢網這之間有什麼關聯性或者是這兩個東西會不會又跌床架屋因為你要推出一個新的打詐通報查詢網你還要再過三個月那我們現在就有165全民防騙網當然是不同的部門但對民眾來講"},{"start":188.189,"end":211.655,"text":"我只要有詐騙相關的訊息我希望有一個單一的管道不管是查詢也好通報也好或是我去各種新的詐騙資訊也好民眾的出發的觀點是希望說我就一個網站或是一個窗口了解就好我不需要有這麼多網站所以我想問一下部長到底這個打詐通報查詢網跟這165全民防騙網未來是要整合呢還是會有兩個網站的存在"},{"start":212.855,"end":238.473,"text":"報告委員那個你看這個就講很清楚是我已經覺得這個訊息是詐騙或是我已經被騙了我在這邊報案那剛剛我們這邊是說你收到的訊息你不確定的時候你可以先到我們這個網站來查這個是不是可能的詐騙而不是說我已經知道他是詐騙我要來檢舉我想這有個差異那也就是讓民眾收到訊息的時候他有個方式先來了解我現在收到訊息到底可不可以信"},{"start":239.593,"end":259.723,"text":"這個是這個是我們這個這個而且我們這個查詢網會連結各個部位當然我們也會連結警政署的這個單位就是說我們已經看到這個訊息經過AI的偵測確定可能是一個詐騙訊息不需要民眾自動包含我們這邊就把我們看到的訊息通報給你部長你的意思是說你們推動的打大通報查詢網是屬於進行中的狀態"},{"start":261.083,"end":276.286,"text":"165全民防騙網查到訊息以確定狀態是這意思嗎?就是說民眾已經決定已經知道民眾已經判斷知道是詐騙或者是他已經被騙了他來這邊做我不能說你沒做事但是我還是要拜託一下其實對民眾對我來講對本席來說這個詐騙問題如果你能夠整合我覺得是對民眾來講這個是比較方便你不要說"},{"start":284.348,"end":309.171,"text":"講真的因為現在165全民防騙網已經推一段時間了大家有些想法跟資訊他一定是先上165去查詢不會去上打造通報查詢網來查詢現階段是這樣子當然我們希望一個網站裡面就能夠我們是一個入口啦portal啦會連接到各個單位的我當然希望你要做到是說不要有這麼多的版本就是就像部長剛剛提到的這個打造通報查詢網是進行中可能潛在的狀況"},{"start":310.672,"end":337.265,"text":"一六五是已經確定了但對我來講或對民眾或對任何一個資訊有落差的人來講他要相信政府他上網查他就是要得到一個可能存在答案嘛你不要說還分兩個我這個上一六五查不到我再上打造通報找找查查看我希望這個事情是能夠結合在一起的我們會整合部長可以嗎可以我們會整合你們會跟內政部主管整合吧對會好那再來剛剛提到這個這個前面也有很多委員提到包含說名人詐騙的問題"},{"start":338.786,"end":354.839,"text":"這件事情就這樣當初在推所謂的電子簽章法的時候當時的數位也是跟我們承諾說推動電子簽章法之後未來能夠減少這種名人冒名詐騙的問題那到底電子簽章法已經正式三讀通過之後到底能不能做到所謂防止名人詐騙的問題"},{"start":356.252,"end":371.81,"text":"電子簽證法讓我們有個機制能夠做數位簽章來做就確認是KYC可是那個剛剛講我像比如說網告平台商他要不要用數位簽章需要另一個法來要求他們一定要做這個事情那這個法就是我們現在在進行的打詐裝法"},{"start":372.662,"end":386.577,"text":"那這個如果通過的話他必須廣告必須要做實名制那實名制一個方法就是用電子簽方數位簽章來做認證這個是一個方法那這個罰你是罰這個廣告商還是罰平台業者"},{"start":388.66,"end":407.564,"text":"對,這個我們如果...推動了新的法律你要罰的是誰?對,他如果沒有配合我們做這個剛講打詐的話平台上是要被罰對,沒錯所以未來有機會因為我很期待說什麼時候你去罰包括Facebook也好Google也好這些跨國公司因為他們在台灣到目前為止這麼詐騙案例這麼氾濫"},{"start":410.345,"end":433.292,"text":"不管臉書也好、LINE也好、Google也好他們是主要的詐騙的平台當然你要罰內容產製者是沒問題但是我要問的是說這些平台他到底有沒有義務去規範那他如果沒有達到我們法律要求他們有去規範那我們的政府什麼時候才會對Facebook也好或對Google或對YouTube或對LINE也好開出第一張罰單目前有開過罰單嗎目前都沒有嘛"},{"start":434.592,"end":452.07,"text":"打詐裝法通過我們就可以他如果沒有配合做剛剛講這些事情配合下架或者處理或是他沒有做KYC沒有做這個實名制的認證的話我們就可以給他裁法對阿這個當然要還是要有法所以法的部分就是剛剛講的打詐裝法通過之後我們會做這個事情"},{"start":452.29,"end":466.455,"text":"好部長所以打造專法通過之後包含Facebook這個公司他也會在你們的裁罰範圍裡面不會只有什麼平台業不會只有所謂的代理商廣告業者被罰連這個平台本身都被罰嗎?對對對好部長那最後一個問題"},{"start":469.517,"end":488.62,"text":"這個你在捲包裡面提到所謂的這個第三方支付也是你們的管制的這個目標但是因為第三方支付跟電子支付不一樣電子支付有金管會的問金管會要認證才有電子支付第三方支付平台他是很多很多有幾千間幾百間這個平台業者是所有的你們都有能力能量去追查嗎還是要透過其他方式"},{"start":489.1,"end":514.142,"text":"我們已經在第三次已經實施比如說那個能量登錄能量登錄已經讓我們這1萬多家登記的第三次現在只有53家通過就是說我們可以集中管理這53家那沒登錄怎麼辦我現在其實問題就是說因為登錄很少他沒有那個經過我們能量登錄的人他在銀行就沒辦法拿到所謂的帳號也就是說金管會金融單位根本就是說會排除這些金融單位要給"},{"start":515.383,"end":538.706,"text":"這個第三方支付的業者的所謂的虛擬帳號必須是有能量登錄過的人那能量過的人他要做什麼事情他要確認他來登廣告或是他要申請這個虛擬帳號的人必須是實名制也就是說他必須是真正的所以就是這個讓很多詐騙的人不敢再就沒有辦法再通過我們認證過的53家的這個第三方支付去要拿到所謂的虛擬帳號"},{"start":539.787,"end":555.119,"text":"於這個方式來斷絕這些剛才講過去的一些網絡詐騙那從這樣的一個歷史我們已經看到這個詐騙數目相加了非常多從以前一個多月的是這個你不可以補充一下這個數字第三方之後這個也要謝謝金管會他主導都虛擬帳號那現在他"},{"start":557.361,"end":557.601,"text":"黃健豪委員"}]}}}}