{"id":153037,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153037","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/536b9eee2a0ea5b383ca4f50f1f9f83f442d3172de404894945ede7791f90b9e451eb654036b25b15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"11:59:05 - 12:07:35","影片長度":"00:08:30","會議時間":"2024-05-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於數位發展部主管預算凍結案計11案。\n【5月27日及29日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-27","duration":510,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-14"},"end_time":"2024-05-27T12:07:35+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-27T11:59:05+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":744,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（11時59分）主席謝謝，麻煩請黃部長。"],["主席：請黃部長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長好。部長，數發部第一次來立法院業務報告，大家也都很期待，從一年多之前數發部的成立國人都很期待，希望數發部真的能夠做實事，你接下這個部長，本席也對你有所期待。首先，在打詐的部分國人還是非常關注，我們現在講關於詐騙的部分，數發部決定要加速封網，是不是？"],["黃部長彥男：封網要有法，而且要有執法單位的同意，我們不會隨意封網，還是要根據法。"],["洪委員孟楷：沒有辦法隨意封網，但是過去到現在大家看到詐騙層出不窮，不管是之前的詐騙或之前吵得沸沸揚揚的創意私房的狀況，就變成三不管地帶，衛福部推給數發部，數發部推給NCC，NCC再說，就變成大家在那邊繞圈圈，真的是因為國人群起譁然之後，創意私房才一紙公文命令可以火速封網，所以我們要講的是未來還有那麼多不管是創意私房或詐騙的網站、一頁式的網頁，我們要怎樣比較能夠從源頭來解決這樣的問題。"],["黃部長彥男：一頁式的網頁我們目前並沒有辦法去封它，因為我們用的是像DNS，我們一封就是封整個網，封整個網需要一個法源依據。"],["洪委員孟楷：一頁式網頁可能是依附在社群媒體平臺。"],["黃部長彥男：對，所以這個就會如我剛才講的，我們有打詐通報查詢網，希望讓民眾或我們自己scan找到這種一頁式網頁的時候，我們可以很快的通知不管是平臺商或平臺服務商，要求它們趕快下架，希望它們下架的時間能夠縮短。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長提到一個重點，你們希望預期多久時間能夠讓社群媒體平臺下架？"],["黃部長彥男：如果打詐專法通過之後，我們當然希望即時下架，因為它如果不即時下架，我們可以罰它錢。現在的作法是說，我們目前所看到的像臉書，有時候會拖到一天甚至兩天，經過我們這樣的查詢網，希望能夠縮短到例如半天之內把它下架。"],["洪委員孟楷：半天之內？"],["黃部長彥男：對，希望。"],["洪委員孟楷：就是至少通報到24小時內可以處理。"],["黃部長彥男：第一，我們看的速度會變快，而不會像以前165報案以後還要經過人工查詢再去通報這些平臺商，我們希望一切都自動化以後，能夠很快通知平臺商，也希望它們很快能夠下架。"],["洪委員孟楷：本席提醒部長，其實從2021年當時東京奧運的時候，我就開過一個記者會，有民眾來跟我反映，他看到一頁式詐騙，東京奧運中華隊口罩、中華隊隊衣，詐騙集團很聰明，它們會用最熱門的話題，WBC世界棒球經典賽紅的時候，它們就賣世界棒球經典賽的衣服，民眾下單、下訂了、買到了，他用貨到付款的方式，真的付了錢，一打開，裡面一樣有寄來衣服，但那個衣服跟網頁上的衣服完全不一樣，這就是一頁式詐騙，這樣的網頁我們已經看到了，結果通常都還會掛在那邊，而且詐騙集團很囂張，它上面還會有計時器現在多少人買了、趕快下訂喔！這樣未來半天內有效可以讓它下架？"],["黃部長彥男：我們會跟平臺商溝通，民眾如果真的去買了這種不實的東西的通報，希望平臺商能夠儘速處理。將來也會有個類似的星級機制，就是我們在很多的電商比如會有分數，這個分數如果是4.5，這種廣告商的東西才能買，如果評價很低、很多抱怨，這種東西就算你沒有下架，民眾也應該可以看到這樣的分數。"],["洪委員孟楷：這樣的分數未來也會出現在我們的打詐通報查詢網？"],["黃部長彥男：我們會要求平臺商提供這樣的分數訊息，至少當民眾買到東西是假的，抱怨以後，他給它一顆星。"],["洪委員孟楷：差評就對了！我們現在也要把詐騙網站也可以……"],["黃部長彥男：像蝦皮也有這樣的分數，民眾在採購的時候看到這個分數才知道我可不可以跟這個廠商下單，因為這確實牽涉到廠商信用問題。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，這個3個月內可以出來，是不是？"],["黃部長彥男：我們會要求，但是我剛才講的查詢網是查訊息的真假，跟廣告的內容不實，剛講的拿到的貨品是不是真正像廣告，這個需要有人通報、報案、去打分數，我們會希望它把分數留在上面。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以什麼時候能夠出來？"],["黃部長彥男：我們會再跟這些平臺商討論，希望越快越好。"],["洪委員孟楷：有沒有討論過？"],["黃部長彥男：我們已經跟平臺商有過幾次接觸了。"],["洪委員孟楷：它們意向如何？它們是持開放態度？還是覺得政府部門不要管我，其他國家都沒有這樣用，為什麼我要特別配合中華民國政府？它們的態度如何？"],["林次長宜敬：委員說的沒有錯，事實上我們在上個禮拜五已經跟幾個主要網路廣告平臺商溝通過，第一個抱怨就是因為很多大型平臺都是國外的公司，它們說要遵守母國的法令規定等等，我就提醒它們既然到了臺灣做生意，你們還是得遵守臺灣的法律，就像臺灣的公司到美國、日本去做生意一定要遵守它們的法律。另外它們也抱怨例如需要18個月才能修改程式，我們也提醒它，例如現在臉書本來就有限制政治性的廣告必須實名認證，我們說其實你們也不用再改程式，你們只要把現有的機制擴大為像網路投資這方面要求實名認證。"],["洪委員孟楷：沒錯！2020年的時候，政治類的廣告要投放預算、要下廣告就要實名制了，結果到2024年那些詐騙集團下詐騙廣告還不用實名制，莫名其妙嘛！"],["林次長宜敬：是，這個部分我們會分兩個方式來處理，一個是打詐新法通過之後，我們有一些法律上的手段可以對這些網路平臺商處以罰款。另外一方面，我們希望藉由輿論壓力，因為這涉及到它們的商譽，我們也會提醒民眾如果它們不配合的話……"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，其實剛剛講的也是過去我們一直在詐騙遇到的狀況，其實說穿了，它們沒有什麼18個月才能改程式。"],["黃部長彥男：對，沒錯。"],["洪委員孟楷：如果今天可以賺錢的項目，18個小時它們可能工程師加班也會趕出來，因為這不是賺錢的，相對來講這會限制它們收益，還有這個東西是付出成本的，所以當然能拖就拖嘛！我現在沒有指責任何一個社群媒體平臺，但是我們要的是它要善盡社會責任，不能讓社群媒體平臺變成詐騙集團的溫床或詐騙集團的管道來媒介投放詐騙廣告。"],["黃部長彥男：對，我完全同意。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，除了剛剛講的詐騙專法通過，你能不能多跟它們高層也好，多約喝幾次咖啡，來要求它們善盡社會責任？"],["黃部長彥男：會要求，會希望它們配合臺灣來做打詐的工作。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，我們會持續來跟你溝通，我也希望你真的做出實際的成績，好不好！這一點再拜託。"],["黃部長彥男：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝洪委員的發言。","現在請游顥委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":266,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-14","speakers":["李昆澤","廖先翔","林國成","林俊憲","林沛祥","魯明哲","徐富癸","陳素月","何欣純","蔡其昌","許智傑","邱若華","黃健豪","鍾佳濱","王鴻薇","葛如鈞","黃珊珊","洪孟楷","游顥","林月琴","李坤城","張啓楷","楊瓊瓔","陳冠廷","陳培瑜","羅智強"],"page_start":203,"meetingDate":["2024-05-27"],"gazette_id":"1135301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135301_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查 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報 告 大 家 也 都 很 期 待 從 一 年 多 之 前 數 位 發 展 部 的 成 立 國 人 都 很 期 待 希 望 數 位 發 展 部 真 的 能 夠 做 實 事 您 接 下 這 個 部 長 本 席 也 對 您 有 所 期 待 首 先 在 打 詐 的 部 分 國 人 還 是 非 常 的 關 注 那 我 們 現 在 在 講 是 說 因 為 數 位 發 展 部 決 定 要 加 速 封 網 是 不 是\n\n3\n00:00:38,982 --> 00:00:39,222\n拜 託 給 我 一 點 時 間 。\n\n4\n00:01:01,802 --> 00:01:28,696\n狀 況 就 變 成 是 說 山 不 管 地 帶 啊 衛 福 部 推 給 速 發 部 速 發 部 推 給 N C C N C C 再 說 所 以 就 變 成 是 說 大 家 在 那 邊 繞 圈 圈 那 真 的 是 因 為 國 人 群 起 華 然 之 後 創 意 私 房 才 一 直 公 文 命 令 可 以 火 速 的 封 網 所 以 我 們 要 講 是 說 未 來 還 有 那 麼 多 不 管 是 創 意 私 房 或 者 是 說 這 些 詐 騙 的 網 站 一 夜 市 的 網 站 一 夜 市 的 網 頁 我 們 要 怎 麼 樣 能 夠 比 較 源 頭 的 來 解 決 這 樣 的 問 題\n\n5\n00:01:30,754 --> 00:01:46,916\n一 頁 式 的 網 頁 我 們 目 前 並 沒 有 辦 法 去 封 它 因 為 那 個 我 們 用 的 是 像 D N S 這 樣 子 我 們 一 封 就 是 封 整 個 網 所 以 封 整 個 網 需 要 有 法 源 的 依 據 那 一 頁 式 網 頁 它 可 能 是 依 附 在 社 群 媒 體 平 台\n\n6\n00:01:47,496 --> 00:02:14,555\n對 所 以 這 個 東 西 就 會 靠 我 剛 剛 講 就 是 說 我 們 有 開 始 有 些 像 剛 剛 講 的 打 造 通 報 查 詢 網 希 望 就 是 讓 民 眾 或 是 我 們 自 己 去 s c a n 去 找 到 這 種 一 夜 市 的 網 頁 之 後 我 們 可 以 很 快 的 通 知 不 管 是 平 台 上 或 是 平 台 服 務 商 或 是 這 樣 就 這 樣 要 趕 快 下 架 希 望 他 們 下 架 的 時 間 能 夠 縮 短 好 部 長 您 這 樣 提 到 一 個 重 點 了 我 們 能 夠 希 望 預 期 多 久 時 間 能 夠 讓 社 群 媒 體 平 台 下 架\n\n7\n00:02:16,448 --> 00:02:37,365\n那 個 目 前 這 個 通 報 網 像 我 們 那 個 如 果 那 個 打 詐 狀 況 通 過 之 後 我 們 當 然 希 望 即 時 下 因 為 他 如 果 不 即 時 下 架 我 們 是 可 以 罰 他 錢 那 現 在 的 做 法 是 說 我 們 目 前 所 看 到 的 是 像 臉 書 啊 這 些 東 西 有 時 候 會 拖 到 一 天 或 甚 至 兩 天 那 經 過 我 們 這 樣 的 查 詢 希 望 能 夠 縮 短 到 比 如 說 半 天 之 內 把 它 下 架\n\n8\n00:02:37,585 --> 00:02:37,785\n是 部 長\n\n9\n00:02:57,262 --> 00:03:24,676\n本 席 提 醒 喔 其 實 從 2 0 2 1 年 當 時 的 東 京 奧 運 的 時 候 我 就 開 過 一 個 記 者 會 就 有 媒 體 就 有 民 眾 來 跟 我 反 映 他 看 到 一 夜 市 詐 騙 東 京 奧 運 中 華 隊 口 罩 中 華 隊 對 一 他 詐 騙 集 團 很 聰 明 啊 他 們 會 用 最 熱 門 的 話 題 啊 W B C 世 界 棒 球 經 典 賽 紅 的 時 候 他 們 就 說 是 賣 世 界 棒 球 經 典 賽 的 衣 服 那 民 眾 下 單 下 訂 了 買 到 了 他 用 貨 到 付 款 的 方 式\n\n10\n00:03:25,336 --> 00:03:25,716\n稍 後 的 報 告\n\n11\n00:03:41,705 --> 00:04:05,276\n詐 騙 集 團 很 囂 張 阿 他 下 面 還 有 那 個 計 時 器 一 直 講 說 現 在 有 多 少 人 買 了 多 少 人 買 了 趕 快 下 訂 喔 那 這 樣 子 未 來 半 天 內 有 效 可 以 剛 剛 下 架 是 嗎 就 是 說 我 們 會 跟 平 台 商 剛 剛 講 說 溝 通 就 是 說 像 這 種 那 個 民 眾 如 果 是 像 這 種 真 的 去 買 這 種 不 實 的 東 西 的 時 候 的 通 報 所 以 我 希 望 平 台 商 能 夠 盡 速 的 處 理\n\n12\n00:04:32,498 --> 00:04:58,166\n提 供 這 樣 的 一 個 分 數 的 訊 息 至 少 有 民 眾 說 我 買 的 東 西 是 假 的 那 這 個 東 西 他 抱 怨 了 以 後 他 給 他 一 顆 心 或 兩 顆 心 等 於 是 擦 屏 就 對 了 就 我 們 現 在 也 要 把 那 個 對 像 撒 騙 網 站 也 可 以 比 說 P C 或 蝦 皮 他 們 都 有 這 種 分 數 嘛 是 那 就 跟 民 眾 在 採 購 的 時 候 看 到 這 個 分 數 才 知 道 說 我 可 不 可 以 跟 這 個 廠 商 下 單 因 為 這 個 確 實 牽 涉 到 這 個 廠 商 的 心 理 問 題 部 長 這 個 三 個 月 內 可 以 出 來\n\n13\n00:04:58,686 --> 00:04:58,806\n有 沒 有 討 論 過 ?\n\n14\n00:05:26,425 --> 00:05:37,701\n他 們 的 意 向 如 何 ? 他 們 是 持 開 放 的 態 度 還 是 覺 得 說 你 政 府 部 門 不 要 管 我 其 他 國 家 都 沒 有 這 樣 用 為 什 麼 我 要 特 別 配 合 我 們 中 華 民 國 政 府 他 們 的 態 度 如 何 ?\n\n15\n00:05:38,936 --> 00:06:02,399\n有 人 說 的 沒 有 錯 , 事 實 上 我 們 在 上 個 禮 拜 五 已 經 跟 幾 個 主 要 的 網 路 平 台 商 跟 他 們 溝 通 過 他 們 第 一 個 抱 怨 就 是 說 他 們 是 因 為 都 是 國 外 很 多 大 型 的 平 台 都 是 國 外 的 公 司 他 們 說 他 們 要 遵 守 母 國 的 那 個 法 律 規 定 等 等 那 我 就 提 醒 他 們 說 既 然 你 們 到 了 台 灣 做 生 意 你 們 還 是 得 遵 守 台 灣 的 法 律\n\n16\n00:06:02,699 --> 00:06:02,739\n是 。 是 。\n\n17\n00:06:21,334 --> 00:06:42,344\n那 個 政 治 性 的 廣 告 必 須 就 是 做 實 名 認 證 是 那 我 們 說 你 們 其 實 也 不 用 再 改 你 們 的 程 式 你 們 只 要 把 現 有 的 這 個 機 制 把 它 擴 大 為 像 這 種 網 路 投 資 的 這 方 面 也 要 求 進 行 實 名 認 證 沒 錯 2 0 2 0 年 的 時 候 政 治 類 的 廣 告 要 投 放 預 算 廣 告 要 下 廣 告 最 後 要 實 名 制 了\n\n18\n00:06:43,322 --> 00:06:58,461\n二 零 二 零 年 的 時 候 就 要 了 就 到 二 零 二 四 年 那 些 詐 騙 集 團 下 詐 騙 廣 告 還 不 用 實 名 制 莫 名 其 妙 嗎 是 那 我 們 這 一 這 部 分 我 們 會 分 為 兩 個 管 道 來 兩 方 式 來 處 理 一 個 就 是 我 們 在 打 詐 新 法\n\n19\n00:06:59,282 --> 00:07:23,320\n通 過 之 後 呢 我 們 有 一 些 法 律 上 的 手 段 可 以 對 這 些 網 路 平 台 商 處 以 罰 款 那 另 外 一 方 面 我 們 就 希 望 藉 由 那 個 輿 論 還 有 的 壓 力 就 是 因 為 這 涉 及 到 他 們 的 商 譽 那 我 們 也 會 提 醒 民 眾 說 來 部 長 最 後 一 分 鐘 好 不 好 因 為 主 席 已 經 站 起 來 部 長 其 實 剛 剛 這 樣 子 講 我 想 這 也 是 過 去 我 們 一 直 在 這 些 詐 騙 裡 面 遇 到 的 狀 況\n\n20\n00:07:24,221 --> 00:07:47,842\n其 實 說 穿 了 啦 他 們 沒 有 什 麼 1 8 個 月 才 能 改 程 式 啦 如 果 今 天 可 以 賺 錢 的 p r o g r a m 1 8 個 小 時 他 們 可 能 工 程 師 加 班 也 都 趕 出 來 啊 因 為 這 個 不 是 賺 錢 的 這 個 是 相 對 來 講 會 限 制 他 們 的 收 益 的 還 有 就 是 這 個 東 西 是 付 出 成 本 的 所 以 當 然 能 拖 就 拖 嘛 我 現 在 沒 有 指 責 任 何 一 個 社 群 媒 體 平 台\n\n21\n00:07:48,442 --> 00:08:10,359\n但 是 我 們 要 的 是 他 要 散 盡 社 會 責 任 不 能 讓 社 群 媒 體 平 台 變 成 是 詐 騙 集 團 的 一 個 溫 床 或 是 詐 騙 集 團 的 管 道 來 去 媒 介 去 投 放 詐 騙 廣 告 所 以 部 長 除 了 剛 剛 講 的 詐 騙 專 法 通 過 你 能 不 能 多 跟 他 們 高 層 也 好 多 約 喝 幾 次 咖 啡\n\n22\n00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:27,412\n來 要 求 他 們 善 遵 社 會 責 任 。 對 啦 , 就 是 說 會 要 求 然 後 會 希 望 他 們 配 合 我 們 台 灣 來 做 打 詐 的 工 作 。 好 , 部 長 我 們 會 持 續 的 來 跟 你 溝 通 。 我 也 希 望 真 的 做 出 實 際 的 成 績 。 好 不 好 ? 好 , 謝 謝 洪 委 員 的 發 言 。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2318\t3322\t好主席謝謝麻煩請黃部長請黃部長\n12763\t38382\t部長好,部長數位發展部第一次來立法院業務報告大家也都很期待從一年多之前數位發展部的成立國人都很期待希望數位發展部真的能夠做實事您接下這個部長本席也對您有所期待首先在打詐的部分國人還是非常的關注那我們現在在講是說因為數位發展部決定要加速封網是不是\n38982\t39222\t拜託給我一點時間。\n61802\t88696\t狀況就變成是說山不管地帶啊衛福部推給速發部速發部推給NCCNCC再說所以就變成是說大家在那邊繞圈圈那真的是因為國人群起華然之後創意私房才一直公文命令可以火速的封網所以我們要講是說未來還有那麼多不管是創意私房或者是說這些詐騙的網站一夜市的網站一夜市的網頁我們要怎麼樣能夠比較源頭的來解決這樣的問題\n90754\t106916\t一頁式的網頁我們目前並沒有辦法去封它因為那個我們用的是像DNS這樣子我們一封就是封整個網所以封整個網需要有法源的依據那一頁式網頁它可能是依附在社群媒體平台\n107496\t134555\t對所以這個東西就會靠我剛剛講就是說我們有開始有些像剛剛講的打造通報查詢網希望就是讓民眾或是我們自己去scan去找到這種一夜市的網頁之後我們可以很快的通知不管是平台上或是平台服務商或是這樣就這樣要趕快下架希望他們下架的時間能夠縮短好部長您這樣提到一個重點了我們能夠希望預期多久時間能夠讓社群媒體平台下架\n136448\t157365\t那個目前這個通報網像我們那個如果那個打詐狀況通過之後我們當然希望即時下因為他如果不即時下架我們是可以罰他錢那現在的做法是說我們目前所看到的是像臉書啊這些東西有時候會拖到一天或甚至兩天那經過我們這樣的查詢希望能夠縮短到比如說半天之內把它下架\n157585\t157785\t是部長\n177262\t204676\t本席提醒喔其實從2021年當時的東京奧運的時候我就開過一個記者會就有媒體就有民眾來跟我反映他看到一夜市詐騙東京奧運中華隊口罩中華隊對一他詐騙集團很聰明啊他們會用最熱門的話題啊WBC世界棒球經典賽紅的時候他們就說是賣世界棒球經典賽的衣服那民眾下單下訂了買到了他用貨到付款的方式\n205336\t205716\t稍後的報告\n221705\t245276\t詐騙集團很囂張阿他下面還有那個計時器一直講說現在有多少人買了多少人買了趕快下訂喔那這樣子未來半天內有效可以剛剛下架是嗎就是說我們會跟平台商剛剛講說溝通就是說像這種那個民眾如果是像這種真的去買這種不實的東西的時候的通報所以我希望平台商能夠盡速的處理\n245776\t272398\t﹏﹏\n272498\t298166\t提供這樣的一個分數的訊息至少有民眾說我買的東西是假的那這個東西他抱怨了以後他給他一顆心或兩顆心等於是擦屏就對了就我們現在也要把那個對像撒騙網站也可以比說PC或蝦皮他們都有這種分數嘛是那就跟民眾在採購的時候看到這個分數才知道說我可不可以跟這個廠商下單因為這個確實牽涉到這個廠商的心理問題部長這個三個月內可以出來\n298686\t298806\t有沒有討論過?\n326425\t337701\t他們的意向如何?他們是持開放的態度還是覺得說你政府部門不要管我其他國家都沒有這樣用為什麼我要特別配合我們中華民國政府他們的態度如何?\n338936\t362399\t有人說的沒有錯,事實上我們在上個禮拜五已經跟幾個主要的網路平台商跟他們溝通過他們第一個抱怨就是說他們是因為都是國外很多大型的平台都是國外的公司他們說他們要遵守母國的那個法律規定等等那我就提醒他們說既然你們到了台灣做生意你們還是得遵守台灣的法律\n362699\t362739\t是。 是。\n381334\t402344\t那個政治性的廣告必須就是做實名認證是那我們說你們其實也不用再改你們的程式你們只要把現有的這個機制把它擴大為像這種網路投資的這方面也要求進行實名認證沒錯2020年的時候政治類的廣告要投放預算廣告要下廣告最後要實名制了\n403322\t418461\t二零二零年的時候就要了就到二零二四年那些詐騙集團下詐騙廣告還不用實名制莫名其妙嗎是那我們這一這部分我們會分為兩個管道來兩方式來處理一個就是我們在打詐新法\n419282\t443320\t通過之後呢我們有一些法律上的手段可以對這些網路平台商處以罰款那另外一方面我們就希望藉由那個輿論還有的壓力就是因為這涉及到他們的商譽那我們也會提醒民眾說來部長最後一分鐘好不好因為主席已經站起來部長其實剛剛這樣子講我想這也是過去我們一直在這些詐騙裡面遇到的狀況\n444221\t467842\t其實說穿了啦 他們沒有什麼18個月才能改程式啦 如果今天可以賺錢的program 18個小時他們可能工程師加班也都趕出來啊 因為這個不是賺錢的 這個是相對來講會限制他們的收益的 還有就是這個東西是付出成本的 所以當然能拖就拖嘛 我現在沒有指責任何一個社群媒體平台\n468442\t490359\t但是我們要的是他要散盡社會責任不能讓社群媒體平台變成是詐騙集團的一個溫床或是詐騙集團的管道來去媒介去投放詐騙廣告所以部長除了剛剛講的詐騙專法通過你能不能多跟他們高層也好多約喝幾次咖啡\n491680\t507412\t來要求他們善遵社會責任。對啦,就是說會要求然後會希望他們配合我們台灣來做打詐的工作。好,部長我們會持續的來跟你溝通。我也希望真的做出實際的成績。好不好?好,謝謝洪委員的發言。\n","txt":"好主席謝謝麻煩請黃部長請黃部長\n部長好,部長數位發展部第一次來立法院業務報告大家也都很期待從一年多之前數位發展部的成立國人都很期待希望數位發展部真的能夠做實事您接下這個部長本席也對您有所期待首先在打詐的部分國人還是非常的關注那我們現在在講是說因為數位發展部決定要加速封網是不是\n拜託給我一點時間。\n狀況就變成是說山不管地帶啊衛福部推給速發部速發部推給NCCNCC再說所以就變成是說大家在那邊繞圈圈那真的是因為國人群起華然之後創意私房才一直公文命令可以火速的封網所以我們要講是說未來還有那麼多不管是創意私房或者是說這些詐騙的網站一夜市的網站一夜市的網頁我們要怎麼樣能夠比較源頭的來解決這樣的問題\n一頁式的網頁我們目前並沒有辦法去封它因為那個我們用的是像DNS這樣子我們一封就是封整個網所以封整個網需要有法源的依據那一頁式網頁它可能是依附在社群媒體平台\n對所以這個東西就會靠我剛剛講就是說我們有開始有些像剛剛講的打造通報查詢網希望就是讓民眾或是我們自己去scan去找到這種一夜市的網頁之後我們可以很快的通知不管是平台上或是平台服務商或是這樣就這樣要趕快下架希望他們下架的時間能夠縮短好部長您這樣提到一個重點了我們能夠希望預期多久時間能夠讓社群媒體平台下架\n那個目前這個通報網像我們那個如果那個打詐狀況通過之後我們當然希望即時下因為他如果不即時下架我們是可以罰他錢那現在的做法是說我們目前所看到的是像臉書啊這些東西有時候會拖到一天或甚至兩天那經過我們這樣的查詢希望能夠縮短到比如說半天之內把它下架\n是部長\n本席提醒喔其實從2021年當時的東京奧運的時候我就開過一個記者會就有媒體就有民眾來跟我反映他看到一夜市詐騙東京奧運中華隊口罩中華隊對一他詐騙集團很聰明啊他們會用最熱門的話題啊WBC世界棒球經典賽紅的時候他們就說是賣世界棒球經典賽的衣服那民眾下單下訂了買到了他用貨到付款的方式\n稍後的報告\n詐騙集團很囂張阿他下面還有那個計時器一直講說現在有多少人買了多少人買了趕快下訂喔那這樣子未來半天內有效可以剛剛下架是嗎就是說我們會跟平台商剛剛講說溝通就是說像這種那個民眾如果是像這種真的去買這種不實的東西的時候的通報所以我希望平台商能夠盡速的處理\n﹏﹏\n提供這樣的一個分數的訊息至少有民眾說我買的東西是假的那這個東西他抱怨了以後他給他一顆心或兩顆心等於是擦屏就對了就我們現在也要把那個對像撒騙網站也可以比說PC或蝦皮他們都有這種分數嘛是那就跟民眾在採購的時候看到這個分數才知道說我可不可以跟這個廠商下單因為這個確實牽涉到這個廠商的心理問題部長這個三個月內可以出來\n有沒有討論過?\n他們的意向如何?他們是持開放的態度還是覺得說你政府部門不要管我其他國家都沒有這樣用為什麼我要特別配合我們中華民國政府他們的態度如何?\n有人說的沒有錯,事實上我們在上個禮拜五已經跟幾個主要的網路平台商跟他們溝通過他們第一個抱怨就是說他們是因為都是國外很多大型的平台都是國外的公司他們說他們要遵守母國的那個法律規定等等那我就提醒他們說既然你們到了台灣做生意你們還是得遵守台灣的法律\n是。 是。\n那個政治性的廣告必須就是做實名認證是那我們說你們其實也不用再改你們的程式你們只要把現有的這個機制把它擴大為像這種網路投資的這方面也要求進行實名認證沒錯2020年的時候政治類的廣告要投放預算廣告要下廣告最後要實名制了\n二零二零年的時候就要了就到二零二四年那些詐騙集團下詐騙廣告還不用實名制莫名其妙嗎是那我們這一這部分我們會分為兩個管道來兩方式來處理一個就是我們在打詐新法\n通過之後呢我們有一些法律上的手段可以對這些網路平台商處以罰款那另外一方面我們就希望藉由那個輿論還有的壓力就是因為這涉及到他們的商譽那我們也會提醒民眾說來部長最後一分鐘好不好因為主席已經站起來部長其實剛剛這樣子講我想這也是過去我們一直在這些詐騙裡面遇到的狀況\n其實說穿了啦 他們沒有什麼18個月才能改程式啦 如果今天可以賺錢的program 18個小時他們可能工程師加班也都趕出來啊 因為這個不是賺錢的 這個是相對來講會限制他們的收益的 還有就是這個東西是付出成本的 所以當然能拖就拖嘛 我現在沒有指責任何一個社群媒體平台\n但是我們要的是他要散盡社會責任不能讓社群媒體平台變成是詐騙集團的一個溫床或是詐騙集團的管道來去媒介去投放詐騙廣告所以部長除了剛剛講的詐騙專法通過你能不能多跟他們高層也好多約喝幾次咖啡\n來要求他們善遵社會責任。對啦,就是說會要求然後會希望他們配合我們台灣來做打詐的工作。好,部長我們會持續的來跟你溝通。我也希望真的做出實際的成績。好不好?好,謝謝洪委員的發言。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.318 --> 00:03.322\n好 主 席 謝 謝 麻 煩 請 黃 部 長 請 黃 部 長\n\n00:12.763 --> 00:38.382\n部 長 好 , 部 長 數 位 發 展 部 第 一 次 來 立 法 院 業 務 報 告 大 家 也 都 很 期 待 從 一 年 多 之 前 數 位 發 展 部 的 成 立 國 人 都 很 期 待 希 望 數 位 發 展 部 真 的 能 夠 做 實 事 您 接 下 這 個 部 長 本 席 也 對 您 有 所 期 待 首 先 在 打 詐 的 部 分 國 人 還 是 非 常 的 關 注 那 我 們 現 在 在 講 是 說 因 為 數 位 發 展 部 決 定 要 加 速 封 網 是 不 是\n\n00:38.982 --> 00:39.222\n拜 託 給 我 一 點 時 間 。\n\n01:01.802 --> 01:28.696\n狀 況 就 變 成 是 說 山 不 管 地 帶 啊 衛 福 部 推 給 速 發 部 速 發 部 推 給 N C C N C C 再 說 所 以 就 變 成 是 說 大 家 在 那 邊 繞 圈 圈 那 真 的 是 因 為 國 人 群 起 華 然 之 後 創 意 私 房 才 一 直 公 文 命 令 可 以 火 速 的 封 網 所 以 我 們 要 講 是 說 未 來 還 有 那 麼 多 不 管 是 創 意 私 房 或 者 是 說 這 些 詐 騙 的 網 站 一 夜 市 的 網 站 一 夜 市 的 網 頁 我 們 要 怎 麼 樣 能 夠 比 較 源 頭 的 來 解 決 這 樣 的 問 題\n\n01:30.754 --> 01:46.916\n一 頁 式 的 網 頁 我 們 目 前 並 沒 有 辦 法 去 封 它 因 為 那 個 我 們 用 的 是 像 D N S 這 樣 子 我 們 一 封 就 是 封 整 個 網 所 以 封 整 個 網 需 要 有 法 源 的 依 據 那 一 頁 式 網 頁 它 可 能 是 依 附 在 社 群 媒 體 平 台\n\n01:47.496 --> 02:14.555\n對 所 以 這 個 東 西 就 會 靠 我 剛 剛 講 就 是 說 我 們 有 開 始 有 些 像 剛 剛 講 的 打 造 通 報 查 詢 網 希 望 就 是 讓 民 眾 或 是 我 們 自 己 去 s c a n 去 找 到 這 種 一 夜 市 的 網 頁 之 後 我 們 可 以 很 快 的 通 知 不 管 是 平 台 上 或 是 平 台 服 務 商 或 是 這 樣 就 這 樣 要 趕 快 下 架 希 望 他 們 下 架 的 時 間 能 夠 縮 短 好 部 長 您 這 樣 提 到 一 個 重 點 了 我 們 能 夠 希 望 預 期 多 久 時 間 能 夠 讓 社 群 媒 體 平 台 下 架\n\n02:16.448 --> 02:37.365\n那 個 目 前 這 個 通 報 網 像 我 們 那 個 如 果 那 個 打 詐 狀 況 通 過 之 後 我 們 當 然 希 望 即 時 下 因 為 他 如 果 不 即 時 下 架 我 們 是 可 以 罰 他 錢 那 現 在 的 做 法 是 說 我 們 目 前 所 看 到 的 是 像 臉 書 啊 這 些 東 西 有 時 候 會 拖 到 一 天 或 甚 至 兩 天 那 經 過 我 們 這 樣 的 查 詢 希 望 能 夠 縮 短 到 比 如 說 半 天 之 內 把 它 下 架\n\n02:37.585 --> 02:37.785\n是 部 長\n\n02:57.262 --> 03:24.676\n本 席 提 醒 喔 其 實 從 2 0 2 1 年 當 時 的 東 京 奧 運 的 時 候 我 就 開 過 一 個 記 者 會 就 有 媒 體 就 有 民 眾 來 跟 我 反 映 他 看 到 一 夜 市 詐 騙 東 京 奧 運 中 華 隊 口 罩 中 華 隊 對 一 他 詐 騙 集 團 很 聰 明 啊 他 們 會 用 最 熱 門 的 話 題 啊 W B C 世 界 棒 球 經 典 賽 紅 的 時 候 他 們 就 說 是 賣 世 界 棒 球 經 典 賽 的 衣 服 那 民 眾 下 單 下 訂 了 買 到 了 他 用 貨 到 付 款 的 方 式\n\n03:25.336 --> 03:25.716\n稍 後 的 報 告\n\n03:41.705 --> 04:05.276\n詐 騙 集 團 很 囂 張 阿 他 下 面 還 有 那 個 計 時 器 一 直 講 說 現 在 有 多 少 人 買 了 多 少 人 買 了 趕 快 下 訂 喔 那 這 樣 子 未 來 半 天 內 有 效 可 以 剛 剛 下 架 是 嗎 就 是 說 我 們 會 跟 平 台 商 剛 剛 講 說 溝 通 就 是 說 像 這 種 那 個 民 眾 如 果 是 像 這 種 真 的 去 買 這 種 不 實 的 東 西 的 時 候 的 通 報 所 以 我 希 望 平 台 商 能 夠 盡 速 的 處 理\n\n04:32.498 --> 04:58.166\n提 供 這 樣 的 一 個 分 數 的 訊 息 至 少 有 民 眾 說 我 買 的 東 西 是 假 的 那 這 個 東 西 他 抱 怨 了 以 後 他 給 他 一 顆 心 或 兩 顆 心 等 於 是 擦 屏 就 對 了 就 我 們 現 在 也 要 把 那 個 對 像 撒 騙 網 站 也 可 以 比 說 P C 或 蝦 皮 他 們 都 有 這 種 分 數 嘛 是 那 就 跟 民 眾 在 採 購 的 時 候 看 到 這 個 分 數 才 知 道 說 我 可 不 可 以 跟 這 個 廠 商 下 單 因 為 這 個 確 實 牽 涉 到 這 個 廠 商 的 心 理 問 題 部 長 這 個 三 個 月 內 可 以 出 來\n\n04:58.686 --> 04:58.806\n有 沒 有 討 論 過 ?\n\n05:26.425 --> 05:37.701\n他 們 的 意 向 如 何 ? 他 們 是 持 開 放 的 態 度 還 是 覺 得 說 你 政 府 部 門 不 要 管 我 其 他 國 家 都 沒 有 這 樣 用 為 什 麼 我 要 特 別 配 合 我 們 中 華 民 國 政 府 他 們 的 態 度 如 何 ?\n\n05:38.936 --> 06:02.399\n有 人 說 的 沒 有 錯 , 事 實 上 我 們 在 上 個 禮 拜 五 已 經 跟 幾 個 主 要 的 網 路 平 台 商 跟 他 們 溝 通 過 他 們 第 一 個 抱 怨 就 是 說 他 們 是 因 為 都 是 國 外 很 多 大 型 的 平 台 都 是 國 外 的 公 司 他 們 說 他 們 要 遵 守 母 國 的 那 個 法 律 規 定 等 等 那 我 就 提 醒 他 們 說 既 然 你 們 到 了 台 灣 做 生 意 你 們 還 是 得 遵 守 台 灣 的 法 律\n\n06:02.699 --> 06:02.739\n是 。 是 。\n\n06:21.334 --> 06:42.344\n那 個 政 治 性 的 廣 告 必 須 就 是 做 實 名 認 證 是 那 我 們 說 你 們 其 實 也 不 用 再 改 你 們 的 程 式 你 們 只 要 把 現 有 的 這 個 機 制 把 它 擴 大 為 像 這 種 網 路 投 資 的 這 方 面 也 要 求 進 行 實 名 認 證 沒 錯 2 0 2 0 年 的 時 候 政 治 類 的 廣 告 要 投 放 預 算 廣 告 要 下 廣 告 最 後 要 實 名 制 了\n\n06:43.322 --> 06:58.461\n二 零 二 零 年 的 時 候 就 要 了 就 到 二 零 二 四 年 那 些 詐 騙 集 團 下 詐 騙 廣 告 還 不 用 實 名 制 莫 名 其 妙 嗎 是 那 我 們 這 一 這 部 分 我 們 會 分 為 兩 個 管 道 來 兩 方 式 來 處 理 一 個 就 是 我 們 在 打 詐 新 法\n\n06:59.282 --> 07:23.320\n通 過 之 後 呢 我 們 有 一 些 法 律 上 的 手 段 可 以 對 這 些 網 路 平 台 商 處 以 罰 款 那 另 外 一 方 面 我 們 就 希 望 藉 由 那 個 輿 論 還 有 的 壓 力 就 是 因 為 這 涉 及 到 他 們 的 商 譽 那 我 們 也 會 提 醒 民 眾 說 來 部 長 最 後 一 分 鐘 好 不 好 因 為 主 席 已 經 站 起 來 部 長 其 實 剛 剛 這 樣 子 講 我 想 這 也 是 過 去 我 們 一 直 在 這 些 詐 騙 裡 面 遇 到 的 狀 況\n\n07:24.221 --> 07:47.842\n其 實 說 穿 了 啦 他 們 沒 有 什 麼 1 8 個 月 才 能 改 程 式 啦 如 果 今 天 可 以 賺 錢 的 p r o g r a m 1 8 個 小 時 他 們 可 能 工 程 師 加 班 也 都 趕 出 來 啊 因 為 這 個 不 是 賺 錢 的 這 個 是 相 對 來 講 會 限 制 他 們 的 收 益 的 還 有 就 是 這 個 東 西 是 付 出 成 本 的 所 以 當 然 能 拖 就 拖 嘛 我 現 在 沒 有 指 責 任 何 一 個 社 群 媒 體 平 台\n\n07:48.442 --> 08:10.359\n但 是 我 們 要 的 是 他 要 散 盡 社 會 責 任 不 能 讓 社 群 媒 體 平 台 變 成 是 詐 騙 集 團 的 一 個 溫 床 或 是 詐 騙 集 團 的 管 道 來 去 媒 介 去 投 放 詐 騙 廣 告 所 以 部 長 除 了 剛 剛 講 的 詐 騙 專 法 通 過 你 能 不 能 多 跟 他 們 高 層 也 好 多 約 喝 幾 次 咖 啡\n\n08:11.680 --> 08:27.412\n來 要 求 他 們 善 遵 社 會 責 任 。 對 啦 , 就 是 說 會 要 求 然 後 會 希 望 他 們 配 合 我 們 台 灣 來 做 打 詐 的 工 作 。 好 , 部 長 我 們 會 持 續 的 來 跟 你 溝 通 。 我 也 希 望 真 的 做 出 實 際 的 成 績 。 好 不 好 ? 好 , 謝 謝 洪 委 員 的 發 言 。\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.318,"end":3.322,"text":"好主席謝謝麻煩請黃部長請黃部長"},{"start":12.763,"end":38.382,"text":"部長好,部長數位發展部第一次來立法院業務報告大家也都很期待從一年多之前數位發展部的成立國人都很期待希望數位發展部真的能夠做實事您接下這個部長本席也對您有所期待首先在打詐的部分國人還是非常的關注那我們現在在講是說因為數位發展部決定要加速封網是不是"},{"start":38.982,"end":39.222,"text":"拜託給我一點時間。"},{"start":61.802,"end":88.696,"text":"狀況就變成是說山不管地帶啊衛福部推給速發部速發部推給NCCNCC再說所以就變成是說大家在那邊繞圈圈那真的是因為國人群起華然之後創意私房才一直公文命令可以火速的封網所以我們要講是說未來還有那麼多不管是創意私房或者是說這些詐騙的網站一夜市的網站一夜市的網頁我們要怎麼樣能夠比較源頭的來解決這樣的問題"},{"start":90.754,"end":106.916,"text":"一頁式的網頁我們目前並沒有辦法去封它因為那個我們用的是像DNS這樣子我們一封就是封整個網所以封整個網需要有法源的依據那一頁式網頁它可能是依附在社群媒體平台"},{"start":107.496,"end":134.555,"text":"對所以這個東西就會靠我剛剛講就是說我們有開始有些像剛剛講的打造通報查詢網希望就是讓民眾或是我們自己去scan去找到這種一夜市的網頁之後我們可以很快的通知不管是平台上或是平台服務商或是這樣就這樣要趕快下架希望他們下架的時間能夠縮短好部長您這樣提到一個重點了我們能夠希望預期多久時間能夠讓社群媒體平台下架"},{"start":136.448,"end":157.365,"text":"那個目前這個通報網像我們那個如果那個打詐狀況通過之後我們當然希望即時下因為他如果不即時下架我們是可以罰他錢那現在的做法是說我們目前所看到的是像臉書啊這些東西有時候會拖到一天或甚至兩天那經過我們這樣的查詢希望能夠縮短到比如說半天之內把它下架"},{"start":157.585,"end":157.785,"text":"是部長"},{"start":177.262,"end":204.676,"text":"本席提醒喔其實從2021年當時的東京奧運的時候我就開過一個記者會就有媒體就有民眾來跟我反映他看到一夜市詐騙東京奧運中華隊口罩中華隊對一他詐騙集團很聰明啊他們會用最熱門的話題啊WBC世界棒球經典賽紅的時候他們就說是賣世界棒球經典賽的衣服那民眾下單下訂了買到了他用貨到付款的方式"},{"start":205.336,"end":205.716,"text":"稍後的報告"},{"start":221.705,"end":245.276,"text":"詐騙集團很囂張阿他下面還有那個計時器一直講說現在有多少人買了多少人買了趕快下訂喔那這樣子未來半天內有效可以剛剛下架是嗎就是說我們會跟平台商剛剛講說溝通就是說像這種那個民眾如果是像這種真的去買這種不實的東西的時候的通報所以我希望平台商能夠盡速的處理"},{"start":245.776,"end":272.398,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":272.498,"end":298.166,"text":"提供這樣的一個分數的訊息至少有民眾說我買的東西是假的那這個東西他抱怨了以後他給他一顆心或兩顆心等於是擦屏就對了就我們現在也要把那個對像撒騙網站也可以比說PC或蝦皮他們都有這種分數嘛是那就跟民眾在採購的時候看到這個分數才知道說我可不可以跟這個廠商下單因為這個確實牽涉到這個廠商的心理問題部長這個三個月內可以出來"},{"start":298.686,"end":298.806,"text":"有沒有討論過?"},{"start":326.425,"end":337.701,"text":"他們的意向如何?他們是持開放的態度還是覺得說你政府部門不要管我其他國家都沒有這樣用為什麼我要特別配合我們中華民國政府他們的態度如何?"},{"start":338.936,"end":362.399,"text":"有人說的沒有錯,事實上我們在上個禮拜五已經跟幾個主要的網路平台商跟他們溝通過他們第一個抱怨就是說他們是因為都是國外很多大型的平台都是國外的公司他們說他們要遵守母國的那個法律規定等等那我就提醒他們說既然你們到了台灣做生意你們還是得遵守台灣的法律"},{"start":362.699,"end":362.739,"text":" 是。 是。"},{"start":381.334,"end":402.344,"text":"那個政治性的廣告必須就是做實名認證是那我們說你們其實也不用再改你們的程式你們只要把現有的這個機制把它擴大為像這種網路投資的這方面也要求進行實名認證沒錯2020年的時候政治類的廣告要投放預算廣告要下廣告最後要實名制了"},{"start":403.322,"end":418.461,"text":"二零二零年的時候就要了就到二零二四年那些詐騙集團下詐騙廣告還不用實名制莫名其妙嗎是那我們這一這部分我們會分為兩個管道來兩方式來處理一個就是我們在打詐新法"},{"start":419.282,"end":443.32,"text":"通過之後呢我們有一些法律上的手段可以對這些網路平台商處以罰款那另外一方面我們就希望藉由那個輿論還有的壓力就是因為這涉及到他們的商譽那我們也會提醒民眾說來部長最後一分鐘好不好因為主席已經站起來部長其實剛剛這樣子講我想這也是過去我們一直在這些詐騙裡面遇到的狀況"},{"start":444.221,"end":467.842,"text":"其實說穿了啦 他們沒有什麼18個月才能改程式啦 如果今天可以賺錢的program 18個小時他們可能工程師加班也都趕出來啊 因為這個不是賺錢的 這個是相對來講會限制他們的收益的 還有就是這個東西是付出成本的 所以當然能拖就拖嘛 我現在沒有指責任何一個社群媒體平台"},{"start":468.442,"end":490.359,"text":"但是我們要的是他要散盡社會責任不能讓社群媒體平台變成是詐騙集團的一個溫床或是詐騙集團的管道來去媒介去投放詐騙廣告所以部長除了剛剛講的詐騙專法通過你能不能多跟他們高層也好多約喝幾次咖啡"},{"start":491.68,"end":507.412,"text":"來要求他們善遵社會責任。對啦,就是說會要求然後會希望他們配合我們台灣來做打詐的工作。好,部長我們會持續的來跟你溝通。我也希望真的做出實際的成績。好不好?好,謝謝洪委員的發言。"}]}}}}