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Store下載，從Google Store下載的也是美國版的app，所以自然而然就會連到美國的TikTok。"],["陳委員冠廷：所以就是讓臺灣用戶連接到美國檔，降低資安的疑惑。"],["黃部長彥男：對。就是說，希望連到美國檔這邊，至少他們在這方面假訊息的問題會比較少。"],["陳委員冠廷：對。字節跳動已經上訴美國聯邦政府，未來不管要不要出售或禁用，理論上現在還是未知，但是被禁用跟出售的可能性還是相對高，所以在這段空窗期間，剛才部長講的就是你所謂的配套措施嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：你說在美國的時候？在美國，TikTok目前的情況，我剛剛說有一個打詐通報查詢網，這段期間如果在TikTok有聽到看到這些錯的訊息，不管是對兒少有影響或是一些對健康有影響，我們會很快傳給各部會去判別，如果真的是假訊息，我們就會要求它下架。"],["陳委員冠廷：謝謝部長，您剛剛講到跟兒少相關，然後還會儘速傳遞給各個不同的部門，我們當然是肯定，這是很重要的，因為其實除了資安疑慮之外，還有兒少方面相關的，之前有人拍攝昏迷挑戰放在TikTok上，結果在18個月內導致近20名15歲以下的兒童死亡，這些都是現實發生的事情。剛才我們提到的這些資安疑慮的部分，已經有多達11個TikTok的前員工證實，他們每隔14天就會把資料傳到北京的總部，這些是已經現實存在的問題，我希望我們儘快把詐欺犯罪防制條例通過，希望能夠跟大家共同討論，不管是在野陣營還是執政陣營的國會議員，我們趕快討論完，趕快通過之後，將來有法源依據，我們才能夠儘速去處理這些問題。","再來，我要請教部長紅色供應鏈的部分，今年3月賴總統來到我們嘉義參觀無人機國家隊的時候，有媒體報導有一個螺旋槳的馬達上有Made in China的字樣，這個媒體和在野黨的立委都有非常深刻的批判，雖然說這已經是一個多月前的事情，但是我還是想要質詢一下，確認我們國家的資安政策。針對報導，政府禁紅令的規定，臺灣無人機的這個部分，到底哪些是可行的，哪些是不可以的？哪些是可以用的？在清單上這些，包含其他國家生產的，哪些是我們有限定一定要用臺灣本土製造的，或者是跟我們友善的國家製造的？這個部分可不可以請部長簡單報告，或者是請相關的部會來說明？"],["黃部長彥男：這個已經有在處理了，是不是請鄭司長簡單報告一下？"],["陳委員冠廷：好，謝謝。"],["鄭司長明宗：謝謝委員。無人機的部分，我們要先講清楚，我們數位部，包括我們的電信技術中心，基本上是協助交通部對無人機的管理，就是資安的檢測，所以剛剛委員詢問的部分，可能要問交通部會比較清楚。"],["陳委員冠廷：因為數發部去年3月有推動成立無人機資安聯合檢測實驗室。"],["鄭司長明宗：對，數發部就是以檢測為主，協助交通部。"],["陳委員冠廷：所以也是有在做這樣的事項。"],["鄭司長明宗：我們已經檢測很多款了，而且我們還在做。"],["陳委員冠廷：我們有拿到你們的資料，但是媒體去問資安院，資安院說沒有無人機資安檢測，那我的意思是說，數位部裡面各單位彼此之間要大概知道一下有做哪些事情，這樣子一旦媒體來問的時候，就不會說完全沒有做，然後這類報導就會不斷衍生，然後可能因此打擊政府的威信，說數位部什麼都沒做，但其實是有做的嘛，因為你們的檢測實驗室已經協助13家無人機廠商的22種機型通過產品驗證，所以你們有做，有做就要講出來，做得好要講出來，並且要有一個完善的、好的介面，讓人家知道你們有在檢測，有做出這些成績來，好不好？"],["鄭司長明宗：好。謝謝委員。"],["陳委員冠廷：好，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝。陳冠廷委員發言完畢。","現在請羅智強委員，羅智強委員、羅智強委員不在。","現在請鄭正鈐委員，鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員不在。","現在請吳春城委員，吳春城委員、吳春城委員不在。","現在請鄭天財委員，鄭天財委員、鄭天財委員不在。","現在請蔡易餘委員，蔡易餘委員、蔡易餘委員不在。","現在請陳培瑜委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":266,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-14","speakers":["李昆澤","廖先翔","林國成","林俊憲","林沛祥","魯明哲","徐富癸","陳素月","何欣純","蔡其昌","許智傑","邱若華","黃健豪","鍾佳濱","王鴻薇","葛如鈞","黃珊珊","洪孟楷","游顥","林月琴","李坤城","張啓楷","楊瓊瓔","陳冠廷","陳培瑜","羅智強"],"page_start":203,"meetingDate":["2024-05-27"],"gazette_id":"1135301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135301_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查 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可 以 好 好 坐 下 來 及 時 管 預 把 這 些 廣 泛 討 論 把 哪 一 些 法 條 你 覺 得 未 爭 之 處 我 們 把 它 尋 求 共 識 完 整 的 及 時 管 預 一 起 來 守 護 民 眾 的 權 益 因 為 其 實 現 在 如 果 在 沒 有 法 律 的 基 礎 之 下 那 強 硬 的 叫 部 長 做 些 什 麼 直 接 的 事 情 也 是 困 難 因 為 我 們 是 依 法 行 政 的 國 家 但 是 我 必 須 強 調 這 些 法 案 裡 面 我 們 的 詐 欺 犯 罪 危 害 防 制 條 例 裡 面 針 對 這 個 我 國 境 內\n\n4\n00:01:13,846 --> 00:01:43,193\n法 律 代 表 治 安 人 法 人 來 去 落 實 他 落 地 的 這 個 納 管 這 是 非 常 重 要 的 特 別 是 包 含 T i k T o k 我 想 T i k T o k 的 這 個 議 題 在 美 國 已 經 被 談 論 了 很 久 那 對 於 T i k T o k 的 管 理 我 們 是 預 計 先 透 過 打 造 專 法 讓 他 能 夠 落 地 設 立 代 理 人 才 有 辦 法 去 納 管 不 然 的 話 我 們 無 法 去 能 夠 在 非 我 們 的 這 個 國 際 內 去 處 理 我 想 請 問 一 下 部 長 對 於 T i k T o k 的 落 地 納 管 的 時 程 可 不 可 以 先 跟 國 人 報 告 一 下\n\n5\n00:01:43,913 --> 00:02:07,240\n一 旦 我 們 的 打 詐 算 法 通 過 之 後 我 們 就 馬 上 要 求 剛 剛 這 些 平 台 業 者 落 地 那 落 地 如 果 他 不 落 地 那 我 就 是 對 T i k T o k 我 們 特 別 處 理 就 是 我 們 我 剛 剛 在 前 面 解 釋 過 我 們 如 果 他 不 落 地 我 們 原 則 上 不 會 用 這 個 所 謂 這 個 比 如 說 中 國 版 的 T i k T o k 我 們 會 看 美 國 這 邊 美 國 也 因 為 要 求 他 落 地\n\n6\n00:02:24,005 --> 00:02:53,289\n所 以 讓 臺 灣 用 戶 連 接 到 美 國 黨 降 低 去 滋 擾 對 就 是 說 希 望 美 國 黨 這 邊 至 少 他 們 在 這 方 面 至 少 假 新 聞 這 些 問 題 會 比 較 少 對 那 字 節 跳 動 已 經 上 訴 這 一 個 美 國 聯 邦 政 府 到 底 未 來 會 不 會 出 售 或 者 是 禁 用 底 論 上 現 在 還 是 未 知 但 是 傾 向 可 能 是 會 被 禁 用 跟 出 售 的 可 能 性 還 是 相 對 高 啦 所 以 在 這 段 空 窗 期 間 剛 才 部 長 講 的 就 是 你 所 謂 的 配 套 措 施 嗎\n\n7\n00:02:54,732 --> 00:03:23,066\n你 說 那 個 在 美 國 的 時 候 在 美 國 這 個 現 在 是 這 樣 子 現 在 說 T i k T o k 在 目 前 的 情 況 我 們 當 然 就 是 說 如 果 我 們 剛 講 說 有 個 打 詐 通 報 查 詢 網 這 段 時 間 如 果 有 在 T i k T o k 看 到 這 些 訊 息 就 是 說 錯 誤 訊 息 不 管 是 對 兒 少 有 影 響 或 是 一 些 這 個 對 健 康 有 影 響 或 是 這 個 我 們 會 很 快 把 它 到 傳 給 各 部 位 去 做 判 別 如 果 真 的 是 假 訊 息 我 們 就 會 要 求 他 再 從 山 裡 面 下 架\n\n8\n00:03:25,248 --> 00:03:45,348\n謝 謝 部 長 你 剛 剛 講 到 這 個 跟 兒 少 相 關 然 後 還 會 競 速 的 來 傳 遞 給 各 個 不 同 的 部 門 那 我 們 當 然 是 肯 定 這 是 很 重 要 的 因 為 其 實 除 了 治 安 餘 力 之 外 還 有 這 個 兒 少 方 面 相 關 的 他 們 之 前 那 些 昏 迷 挑 戰 1 8 個 月 就 導 致 大 概 2 0 名 1 5 歲 以 下 的 兒 童 死 亡 所 以 這 些 都 是 現 實 發 生 的 事 情\n\n9\n00:03:46,129 --> 00:04:01,077\n那 當 然 就 是 剛 才 我 們 提 到 的 這 些 資 安 餘 力 的 部 分 那 已 經 有 多 達 1 1 個 前 T i k T o k 的 員 工 證 實 他 們 是 會 每 隔 1 4 天 就 把 資 料 傳 向 北 京 的 總 部 所 以 這 些 是 已 經 現 實 存 在 的 問 題 那 我 希 望 說\n\n10\n00:04:02,017 --> 00:04:23,592\n近 快 我 們 把 這 個 詐 欺 犯 罪 無 害 防 制 條 例 希 望 能 夠 跟 不 管 是 在 野 陣 營 的 各 個 國 會 議 員 我 們 趕 快 討 論 完 趕 快 通 過 之 後 將 由 法 院 依 據 我 們 才 能 夠 儘 速 的 來 去 處 理 這 些 問 題 再 來 我 要 請 教 這 個 部 長 紅 色 供 應 鏈 的 部 分 那 今 年 3 月 賴 總 統 來 到 我 們 嘉 義 參 觀 無 人 氣 國 家 隊 的 時 候 那 有 媒 體 是 在 報 導\n\n11\n00:04:26,193 --> 00:04:40,945\n這 個 有 一 個 螺 旋 獎 的 碼 頭 上 有 m a d e i n C h i n a 的 字 樣 那 這 個 媒 體 還 有 在 野 黨 的 立 委 都 有 非 常 深 刻 的 這 樣 子 的 批 判 雖 然 說 這 個 已 經 是 一 個 多 月 前 的 事 情 但 是 我 還 是 想 要 質 詢 一 下 確 認 我 們 國 家 的 資 安 政 策 針 對 報 導\n\n12\n00:04:43,247 --> 00:05:06,698\n政 府 禁 紅 利 的 規 定 台 灣 無 人 機 的 這 個 部 分 到 底 哪 些 是 可 行 哪 些 是 不 可 以 哪 些 是 可 以 用 這 些 包 含 其 他 國 家 的 哪 些 是 我 們 有 限 定 一 定 要 就 是 以 這 個 新 單 上 面 來 講 一 定 要 用 台 灣 本 土 製 造 的 或 者 是 比 方 說 跟 我 們 最 友 善 的 國 家 製 造 的 這 個 部 分 可 不 可 以 請 這 個 部 長 簡 單 或 者 是 請 相 關 的 這 個 部 會 這 個 已 經 有 在 處 理 是 不 是 很 簡 單 的 報 告 一 下 好 謝 謝\n\n13\n00:05:10,628 --> 00:05:28,505\n謝 謝 委 員 無 人 機 部 的 部 分 我 們 要 先 跟 講 要 講 清 楚 就 是 說 我 們 數 位 部 呢 包 括 我 們 的 電 競 技 術 中 心 他 基 本 上 是 協 助 交 通 部 對 無 人 機 管 理 上 就 資 安 的 檢 測 部 分 所 以 剛 剛 委 員 您 的 那 個 要 詢 問 的 部 分 可 能\n\n14\n00:05:29,346 --> 00:05:45,628\n要 問 交 通 部 這 一 塊 會 比 較 清 楚 因 為 數 位 發 展 部 去 年 3 月 有 推 動 成 立 無 人 機 資 安 聯 合 檢 測 實 驗 室 數 位 發 展 部 就 是 以 檢 測 為 主 我 們 協 助 交 通 部 對 所 以 說 也 是 有 在 做 這 樣 的 事 項 我 們 已 經 檢 測 很 多 款 了 而 且 我 們 沒 有 拿 到 你 們 的 資 料 但 是 我 是 說\n\n15\n00:05:46,129 --> 00:06:07,917\n媒 體 他 們 去 問 資 安 院 , 資 安 院 說 沒 有 沒 有 這 個 無 人 機 資 安 檢 測 那 我 意 思 是 說 部 門 內 部 數 位 部 裡 面 彼 此 之 間 要 大 概 知 道 一 下 我 們 有 做 哪 些 事 情 這 樣 子 報 告 來 講 說 不 會 說 我 們 完 全 沒 有 做 然 後 報 告 就 會 不 斷 的 衍 生 然 後 可 能 會 在 因 此 而 打 擊 政 府 的 威 信 說 啊 這 個 數 位 部 什 麼 都 沒 做 但 其 實 是 有 做 的 嘛\n\n16\n00:06:08,357 --> 00:06:08,537\n陳 冠 廷\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n11379\t12340\t我們請數位部部長\n20411\t45128\t委員好部長好部長今天早上你說在法律工具還沒有完善之前那我們大概是只能請這些社群平台業者來去道德勸說那我在這邊也是呼籲我們所有包含這個在野黨跟其他的這些朋友在許多議題上面我們有分歧但是在打詐的部分這個是全民共識所以我希望現在行政院的草案已經一讀\n46269\t71545\t那我們可以好好坐下來及時管預把這些廣泛討論把哪一些法條你覺得未爭之處我們把它尋求共識完整的及時管預一起來守護民眾的權益因為其實現在如果在沒有法律的基礎之下那強硬的叫部長做些什麼直接的事情也是困難因為我們是依法行政的國家但是我必須強調這些法案裡面我們的詐欺犯罪危害防制條例裡面針對這個我國境內\n73846\t103193\t法律代表治安人法人來去落實他落地的這個納管這是非常重要的特別是包含TikTok我想TikTok的這個議題在美國已經被談論了很久那對於TikTok的管理我們是預計先透過打造專法讓他能夠落地設立代理人才有辦法去納管不然的話我們無法去能夠在非我們的這個國際內去處理我想請問一下部長對於TikTok的落地納管的時程可不可以先跟國人報告一下\n103913\t127240\t一旦我們的打詐算法通過之後我們就馬上要求剛剛這些平台業者落地那落地如果他不落地那我就是對TikTok我們特別處理就是我們我剛剛在前面解釋過我們如果他不落地我們原則上不會用這個所謂這個比如說中國版的TikTok我們會看美國這邊美國也因為要求他落地\n127500\t143865\t﹗\n144005\t173289\t所以讓臺灣用戶連接到美國黨降低去滋擾對就是說希望美國黨這邊至少他們在這方面至少假新聞這些問題會比較少對那字節跳動已經上訴這一個美國聯邦政府到底未來會不會出售或者是禁用底論上現在還是未知但是傾向可能是會被禁用跟出售的可能性還是相對高啦所以在這段空窗期間剛才部長講的就是你所謂的配套措施嗎\n174732\t203066\t你說那個在美國的時候在美國這個現在是這樣子現在說TikTok在目前的情況我們當然就是說如果我們剛講說有個打詐通報查詢網這段時間如果有在TikTok看到這些訊息就是說錯誤訊息不管是對兒少有影響或是一些這個對健康有影響或是這個我們會很快把它到傳給各部位去做判別如果真的是假訊息我們就會要求他再從山裡面下架\n205248\t225348\t謝謝部長你剛剛講到這個跟兒少相關然後還會競速的來傳遞給各個不同的部門那我們當然是肯定這是很重要的因為其實除了治安餘力之外還有這個兒少方面相關的他們之前那些昏迷挑戰18個月就導致大概20名15歲以下的兒童死亡所以這些都是現實發生的事情\n226129\t241077\t那當然就是剛才我們提到的這些資安餘力的部分那已經有多達11個前TikTok的員工證實他們是會每隔14天就把資料傳向北京的總部所以這些是已經現實存在的問題那我希望說\n242017\t263592\t近快我們把這個詐欺犯罪無害防制條例希望能夠跟不管是在野陣營的各個國會議員我們趕快討論完趕快通過之後將由法院依據我們才能夠儘速的來去處理這些問題再來我要請教這個部長紅色供應鏈的部分那今年3月賴總統來到我們嘉義參觀無人氣國家隊的時候那有媒體是在報導\n266193\t280945\t這個有一個螺旋獎的碼頭上有made in China的字樣那這個媒體還有在野黨的立委都有非常深刻的這樣子的批判雖然說這個已經是一個多月前的事情但是我還是想要質詢一下確認我們國家的資安政策針對報導\n283247\t306698\t政府禁紅利的規定台灣無人機的這個部分到底哪些是可行哪些是不可以哪些是可以用這些包含其他國家的哪些是我們有限定一定要就是以這個新單上面來講一定要用台灣本土製造的或者是比方說跟我們最友善的國家製造的這個部分可不可以請這個部長簡單或者是請相關的這個部會這個已經有在處理是不是很簡單的報告一下好謝謝\n310628\t328505\t謝謝委員無人機部的部分我們要先跟講要講清楚就是說我們數位部呢包括我們的電競技術中心他基本上是協助交通部對無人機管理上就資安的檢測部分所以剛剛委員您的那個要詢問的部分可能\n329346\t345628\t要問交通部這一塊會比較清楚因為數位發展部去年3月有推動成立無人機資安聯合檢測實驗室數位發展部就是以檢測為主我們協助交通部對所以說也是有在做這樣的事項我們已經檢測很多款了而且我們沒有拿到你們的資料但是我是說\n346129\t367917\t媒體他們去問資安院,資安院說沒有沒有這個無人機資安檢測那我意思是說部門內部數位部裡面彼此之間要大概知道一下我們有做哪些事情這樣子報告來講說不會說我們完全沒有做然後報告就會不斷的衍生然後可能會在因此而打擊政府的威信說啊這個數位部什麼都沒做但其實是有做的嘛\n368357\t368537\t陳冠廷\n","txt":"我們請數位部部長\n委員好部長好部長今天早上你說在法律工具還沒有完善之前那我們大概是只能請這些社群平台業者來去道德勸說那我在這邊也是呼籲我們所有包含這個在野黨跟其他的這些朋友在許多議題上面我們有分歧但是在打詐的部分這個是全民共識所以我希望現在行政院的草案已經一讀\n那我們可以好好坐下來及時管預把這些廣泛討論把哪一些法條你覺得未爭之處我們把它尋求共識完整的及時管預一起來守護民眾的權益因為其實現在如果在沒有法律的基礎之下那強硬的叫部長做些什麼直接的事情也是困難因為我們是依法行政的國家但是我必須強調這些法案裡面我們的詐欺犯罪危害防制條例裡面針對這個我國境內\n法律代表治安人法人來去落實他落地的這個納管這是非常重要的特別是包含TikTok我想TikTok的這個議題在美國已經被談論了很久那對於TikTok的管理我們是預計先透過打造專法讓他能夠落地設立代理人才有辦法去納管不然的話我們無法去能夠在非我們的這個國際內去處理我想請問一下部長對於TikTok的落地納管的時程可不可以先跟國人報告一下\n一旦我們的打詐算法通過之後我們就馬上要求剛剛這些平台業者落地那落地如果他不落地那我就是對TikTok我們特別處理就是我們我剛剛在前面解釋過我們如果他不落地我們原則上不會用這個所謂這個比如說中國版的TikTok我們會看美國這邊美國也因為要求他落地\n﹗\n所以讓臺灣用戶連接到美國黨降低去滋擾對就是說希望美國黨這邊至少他們在這方面至少假新聞這些問題會比較少對那字節跳動已經上訴這一個美國聯邦政府到底未來會不會出售或者是禁用底論上現在還是未知但是傾向可能是會被禁用跟出售的可能性還是相對高啦所以在這段空窗期間剛才部長講的就是你所謂的配套措施嗎\n你說那個在美國的時候在美國這個現在是這樣子現在說TikTok在目前的情況我們當然就是說如果我們剛講說有個打詐通報查詢網這段時間如果有在TikTok看到這些訊息就是說錯誤訊息不管是對兒少有影響或是一些這個對健康有影響或是這個我們會很快把它到傳給各部位去做判別如果真的是假訊息我們就會要求他再從山裡面下架\n謝謝部長你剛剛講到這個跟兒少相關然後還會競速的來傳遞給各個不同的部門那我們當然是肯定這是很重要的因為其實除了治安餘力之外還有這個兒少方面相關的他們之前那些昏迷挑戰18個月就導致大概20名15歲以下的兒童死亡所以這些都是現實發生的事情\n那當然就是剛才我們提到的這些資安餘力的部分那已經有多達11個前TikTok的員工證實他們是會每隔14天就把資料傳向北京的總部所以這些是已經現實存在的問題那我希望說\n近快我們把這個詐欺犯罪無害防制條例希望能夠跟不管是在野陣營的各個國會議員我們趕快討論完趕快通過之後將由法院依據我們才能夠儘速的來去處理這些問題再來我要請教這個部長紅色供應鏈的部分那今年3月賴總統來到我們嘉義參觀無人氣國家隊的時候那有媒體是在報導\n這個有一個螺旋獎的碼頭上有made in China的字樣那這個媒體還有在野黨的立委都有非常深刻的這樣子的批判雖然說這個已經是一個多月前的事情但是我還是想要質詢一下確認我們國家的資安政策針對報導\n政府禁紅利的規定台灣無人機的這個部分到底哪些是可行哪些是不可以哪些是可以用這些包含其他國家的哪些是我們有限定一定要就是以這個新單上面來講一定要用台灣本土製造的或者是比方說跟我們最友善的國家製造的這個部分可不可以請這個部長簡單或者是請相關的這個部會這個已經有在處理是不是很簡單的報告一下好謝謝\n謝謝委員無人機部的部分我們要先跟講要講清楚就是說我們數位部呢包括我們的電競技術中心他基本上是協助交通部對無人機管理上就資安的檢測部分所以剛剛委員您的那個要詢問的部分可能\n要問交通部這一塊會比較清楚因為數位發展部去年3月有推動成立無人機資安聯合檢測實驗室數位發展部就是以檢測為主我們協助交通部對所以說也是有在做這樣的事項我們已經檢測很多款了而且我們沒有拿到你們的資料但是我是說\n媒體他們去問資安院,資安院說沒有沒有這個無人機資安檢測那我意思是說部門內部數位部裡面彼此之間要大概知道一下我們有做哪些事情這樣子報告來講說不會說我們完全沒有做然後報告就會不斷的衍生然後可能會在因此而打擊政府的威信說啊這個數位部什麼都沒做但其實是有做的嘛\n陳冠廷\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:11.379 --> 00:12.340\n我 們 請 數 位 部 部 長\n\n00:20.411 --> 00:45.128\n委 員 好 部 長 好 部 長 今 天 早 上 你 說 在 法 律 工 具 還 沒 有 完 善 之 前 那 我 們 大 概 是 只 能 請 這 些 社 群 平 台 業 者 來 去 道 德 勸 說 那 我 在 這 邊 也 是 呼 籲 我 們 所 有 包 含 這 個 在 野 黨 跟 其 他 的 這 些 朋 友 在 許 多 議 題 上 面 我 們 有 分 歧 但 是 在 打 詐 的 部 分 這 個 是 全 民 共 識 所 以 我 希 望 現 在 行 政 院 的 草 案 已 經 一 讀\n\n00:46.269 --> 01:11.545\n那 我 們 可 以 好 好 坐 下 來 及 時 管 預 把 這 些 廣 泛 討 論 把 哪 一 些 法 條 你 覺 得 未 爭 之 處 我 們 把 它 尋 求 共 識 完 整 的 及 時 管 預 一 起 來 守 護 民 眾 的 權 益 因 為 其 實 現 在 如 果 在 沒 有 法 律 的 基 礎 之 下 那 強 硬 的 叫 部 長 做 些 什 麼 直 接 的 事 情 也 是 困 難 因 為 我 們 是 依 法 行 政 的 國 家 但 是 我 必 須 強 調 這 些 法 案 裡 面 我 們 的 詐 欺 犯 罪 危 害 防 制 條 例 裡 面 針 對 這 個 我 國 境 內\n\n01:13.846 --> 01:43.193\n法 律 代 表 治 安 人 法 人 來 去 落 實 他 落 地 的 這 個 納 管 這 是 非 常 重 要 的 特 別 是 包 含 T i k T o k 我 想 T i k T o k 的 這 個 議 題 在 美 國 已 經 被 談 論 了 很 久 那 對 於 T i k T o k 的 管 理 我 們 是 預 計 先 透 過 打 造 專 法 讓 他 能 夠 落 地 設 立 代 理 人 才 有 辦 法 去 納 管 不 然 的 話 我 們 無 法 去 能 夠 在 非 我 們 的 這 個 國 際 內 去 處 理 我 想 請 問 一 下 部 長 對 於 T i k T o k 的 落 地 納 管 的 時 程 可 不 可 以 先 跟 國 人 報 告 一 下\n\n01:43.913 --> 02:07.240\n一 旦 我 們 的 打 詐 算 法 通 過 之 後 我 們 就 馬 上 要 求 剛 剛 這 些 平 台 業 者 落 地 那 落 地 如 果 他 不 落 地 那 我 就 是 對 T i k T o k 我 們 特 別 處 理 就 是 我 們 我 剛 剛 在 前 面 解 釋 過 我 們 如 果 他 不 落 地 我 們 原 則 上 不 會 用 這 個 所 謂 這 個 比 如 說 中 國 版 的 T i k T o k 我 們 會 看 美 國 這 邊 美 國 也 因 為 要 求 他 落 地\n\n02:24.005 --> 02:53.289\n所 以 讓 臺 灣 用 戶 連 接 到 美 國 黨 降 低 去 滋 擾 對 就 是 說 希 望 美 國 黨 這 邊 至 少 他 們 在 這 方 面 至 少 假 新 聞 這 些 問 題 會 比 較 少 對 那 字 節 跳 動 已 經 上 訴 這 一 個 美 國 聯 邦 政 府 到 底 未 來 會 不 會 出 售 或 者 是 禁 用 底 論 上 現 在 還 是 未 知 但 是 傾 向 可 能 是 會 被 禁 用 跟 出 售 的 可 能 性 還 是 相 對 高 啦 所 以 在 這 段 空 窗 期 間 剛 才 部 長 講 的 就 是 你 所 謂 的 配 套 措 施 嗎\n\n02:54.732 --> 03:23.066\n你 說 那 個 在 美 國 的 時 候 在 美 國 這 個 現 在 是 這 樣 子 現 在 說 T i k T o k 在 目 前 的 情 況 我 們 當 然 就 是 說 如 果 我 們 剛 講 說 有 個 打 詐 通 報 查 詢 網 這 段 時 間 如 果 有 在 T i k T o k 看 到 這 些 訊 息 就 是 說 錯 誤 訊 息 不 管 是 對 兒 少 有 影 響 或 是 一 些 這 個 對 健 康 有 影 響 或 是 這 個 我 們 會 很 快 把 它 到 傳 給 各 部 位 去 做 判 別 如 果 真 的 是 假 訊 息 我 們 就 會 要 求 他 再 從 山 裡 面 下 架\n\n03:25.248 --> 03:45.348\n謝 謝 部 長 你 剛 剛 講 到 這 個 跟 兒 少 相 關 然 後 還 會 競 速 的 來 傳 遞 給 各 個 不 同 的 部 門 那 我 們 當 然 是 肯 定 這 是 很 重 要 的 因 為 其 實 除 了 治 安 餘 力 之 外 還 有 這 個 兒 少 方 面 相 關 的 他 們 之 前 那 些 昏 迷 挑 戰 1 8 個 月 就 導 致 大 概 2 0 名 1 5 歲 以 下 的 兒 童 死 亡 所 以 這 些 都 是 現 實 發 生 的 事 情\n\n03:46.129 --> 04:01.077\n那 當 然 就 是 剛 才 我 們 提 到 的 這 些 資 安 餘 力 的 部 分 那 已 經 有 多 達 1 1 個 前 T i k T o k 的 員 工 證 實 他 們 是 會 每 隔 1 4 天 就 把 資 料 傳 向 北 京 的 總 部 所 以 這 些 是 已 經 現 實 存 在 的 問 題 那 我 希 望 說\n\n04:02.017 --> 04:23.592\n近 快 我 們 把 這 個 詐 欺 犯 罪 無 害 防 制 條 例 希 望 能 夠 跟 不 管 是 在 野 陣 營 的 各 個 國 會 議 員 我 們 趕 快 討 論 完 趕 快 通 過 之 後 將 由 法 院 依 據 我 們 才 能 夠 儘 速 的 來 去 處 理 這 些 問 題 再 來 我 要 請 教 這 個 部 長 紅 色 供 應 鏈 的 部 分 那 今 年 3 月 賴 總 統 來 到 我 們 嘉 義 參 觀 無 人 氣 國 家 隊 的 時 候 那 有 媒 體 是 在 報 導\n\n04:26.193 --> 04:40.945\n這 個 有 一 個 螺 旋 獎 的 碼 頭 上 有 m a d e i n C h i n a 的 字 樣 那 這 個 媒 體 還 有 在 野 黨 的 立 委 都 有 非 常 深 刻 的 這 樣 子 的 批 判 雖 然 說 這 個 已 經 是 一 個 多 月 前 的 事 情 但 是 我 還 是 想 要 質 詢 一 下 確 認 我 們 國 家 的 資 安 政 策 針 對 報 導\n\n04:43.247 --> 05:06.698\n政 府 禁 紅 利 的 規 定 台 灣 無 人 機 的 這 個 部 分 到 底 哪 些 是 可 行 哪 些 是 不 可 以 哪 些 是 可 以 用 這 些 包 含 其 他 國 家 的 哪 些 是 我 們 有 限 定 一 定 要 就 是 以 這 個 新 單 上 面 來 講 一 定 要 用 台 灣 本 土 製 造 的 或 者 是 比 方 說 跟 我 們 最 友 善 的 國 家 製 造 的 這 個 部 分 可 不 可 以 請 這 個 部 長 簡 單 或 者 是 請 相 關 的 這 個 部 會 這 個 已 經 有 在 處 理 是 不 是 很 簡 單 的 報 告 一 下 好 謝 謝\n\n05:10.628 --> 05:28.505\n謝 謝 委 員 無 人 機 部 的 部 分 我 們 要 先 跟 講 要 講 清 楚 就 是 說 我 們 數 位 部 呢 包 括 我 們 的 電 競 技 術 中 心 他 基 本 上 是 協 助 交 通 部 對 無 人 機 管 理 上 就 資 安 的 檢 測 部 分 所 以 剛 剛 委 員 您 的 那 個 要 詢 問 的 部 分 可 能\n\n05:29.346 --> 05:45.628\n要 問 交 通 部 這 一 塊 會 比 較 清 楚 因 為 數 位 發 展 部 去 年 3 月 有 推 動 成 立 無 人 機 資 安 聯 合 檢 測 實 驗 室 數 位 發 展 部 就 是 以 檢 測 為 主 我 們 協 助 交 通 部 對 所 以 說 也 是 有 在 做 這 樣 的 事 項 我 們 已 經 檢 測 很 多 款 了 而 且 我 們 沒 有 拿 到 你 們 的 資 料 但 是 我 是 說\n\n05:46.129 --> 06:07.917\n媒 體 他 們 去 問 資 安 院 , 資 安 院 說 沒 有 沒 有 這 個 無 人 機 資 安 檢 測 那 我 意 思 是 說 部 門 內 部 數 位 部 裡 面 彼 此 之 間 要 大 概 知 道 一 下 我 們 有 做 哪 些 事 情 這 樣 子 報 告 來 講 說 不 會 說 我 們 完 全 沒 有 做 然 後 報 告 就 會 不 斷 的 衍 生 然 後 可 能 會 在 因 此 而 打 擊 政 府 的 威 信 說 啊 這 個 數 位 部 什 麼 都 沒 做 但 其 實 是 有 做 的 嘛\n\n06:08.357 --> 06:08.537\n陳 冠 廷\n\n","segments":[{"start":11.379,"end":12.34,"text":"我們請數位部部長"},{"start":20.411,"end":45.128,"text":"委員好部長好部長今天早上你說在法律工具還沒有完善之前那我們大概是只能請這些社群平台業者來去道德勸說那我在這邊也是呼籲我們所有包含這個在野黨跟其他的這些朋友在許多議題上面我們有分歧但是在打詐的部分這個是全民共識所以我希望現在行政院的草案已經一讀"},{"start":46.269,"end":71.545,"text":"那我們可以好好坐下來及時管預把這些廣泛討論把哪一些法條你覺得未爭之處我們把它尋求共識完整的及時管預一起來守護民眾的權益因為其實現在如果在沒有法律的基礎之下那強硬的叫部長做些什麼直接的事情也是困難因為我們是依法行政的國家但是我必須強調這些法案裡面我們的詐欺犯罪危害防制條例裡面針對這個我國境內"},{"start":73.846,"end":103.193,"text":"法律代表治安人法人來去落實他落地的這個納管這是非常重要的特別是包含TikTok我想TikTok的這個議題在美國已經被談論了很久那對於TikTok的管理我們是預計先透過打造專法讓他能夠落地設立代理人才有辦法去納管不然的話我們無法去能夠在非我們的這個國際內去處理我想請問一下部長對於TikTok的落地納管的時程可不可以先跟國人報告一下"},{"start":103.913,"end":127.24,"text":"一旦我們的打詐算法通過之後我們就馬上要求剛剛這些平台業者落地那落地如果他不落地那我就是對TikTok我們特別處理就是我們我剛剛在前面解釋過我們如果他不落地我們原則上不會用這個所謂這個比如說中國版的TikTok我們會看美國這邊美國也因為要求他落地"},{"start":127.5,"end":143.865,"text":"﹗"},{"start":144.005,"end":173.289,"text":"所以讓臺灣用戶連接到美國黨降低去滋擾對就是說希望美國黨這邊至少他們在這方面至少假新聞這些問題會比較少對那字節跳動已經上訴這一個美國聯邦政府到底未來會不會出售或者是禁用底論上現在還是未知但是傾向可能是會被禁用跟出售的可能性還是相對高啦所以在這段空窗期間剛才部長講的就是你所謂的配套措施嗎"},{"start":174.732,"end":203.066,"text":"你說那個在美國的時候在美國這個現在是這樣子現在說TikTok在目前的情況我們當然就是說如果我們剛講說有個打詐通報查詢網這段時間如果有在TikTok看到這些訊息就是說錯誤訊息不管是對兒少有影響或是一些這個對健康有影響或是這個我們會很快把它到傳給各部位去做判別如果真的是假訊息我們就會要求他再從山裡面下架"},{"start":205.248,"end":225.348,"text":"謝謝部長你剛剛講到這個跟兒少相關然後還會競速的來傳遞給各個不同的部門那我們當然是肯定這是很重要的因為其實除了治安餘力之外還有這個兒少方面相關的他們之前那些昏迷挑戰18個月就導致大概20名15歲以下的兒童死亡所以這些都是現實發生的事情"},{"start":226.129,"end":241.077,"text":"那當然就是剛才我們提到的這些資安餘力的部分那已經有多達11個前TikTok的員工證實他們是會每隔14天就把資料傳向北京的總部所以這些是已經現實存在的問題那我希望說"},{"start":242.017,"end":263.592,"text":"近快我們把這個詐欺犯罪無害防制條例希望能夠跟不管是在野陣營的各個國會議員我們趕快討論完趕快通過之後將由法院依據我們才能夠儘速的來去處理這些問題再來我要請教這個部長紅色供應鏈的部分那今年3月賴總統來到我們嘉義參觀無人氣國家隊的時候那有媒體是在報導"},{"start":266.193,"end":280.945,"text":"這個有一個螺旋獎的碼頭上有made in China的字樣那這個媒體還有在野黨的立委都有非常深刻的這樣子的批判雖然說這個已經是一個多月前的事情但是我還是想要質詢一下確認我們國家的資安政策針對報導"},{"start":283.247,"end":306.698,"text":"政府禁紅利的規定台灣無人機的這個部分到底哪些是可行哪些是不可以哪些是可以用這些包含其他國家的哪些是我們有限定一定要就是以這個新單上面來講一定要用台灣本土製造的或者是比方說跟我們最友善的國家製造的這個部分可不可以請這個部長簡單或者是請相關的這個部會這個已經有在處理是不是很簡單的報告一下好謝謝"},{"start":310.628,"end":328.505,"text":"謝謝委員無人機部的部分我們要先跟講要講清楚就是說我們數位部呢包括我們的電競技術中心他基本上是協助交通部對無人機管理上就資安的檢測部分所以剛剛委員您的那個要詢問的部分可能"},{"start":329.346,"end":345.628,"text":"要問交通部這一塊會比較清楚因為數位發展部去年3月有推動成立無人機資安聯合檢測實驗室數位發展部就是以檢測為主我們協助交通部對所以說也是有在做這樣的事項我們已經檢測很多款了而且我們沒有拿到你們的資料但是我是說"},{"start":346.129,"end":367.917,"text":"媒體他們去問資安院,資安院說沒有沒有這個無人機資安檢測那我意思是說部門內部數位部裡面彼此之間要大概知道一下我們有做哪些事情這樣子報告來講說不會說我們完全沒有做然後報告就會不斷的衍生然後可能會在因此而打擊政府的威信說啊這個數位部什麼都沒做但其實是有做的嘛"},{"start":368.357,"end":368.537,"text":"陳冠廷"}]}}}}