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{\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 293.646, \"end\": 293.806, \"score\": 0.756}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 293.806, \"end\": 293.966, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 293.966, \"end\": 294.286, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"防\", \"start\": 294.286, \"end\": 294.406, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 294.406, \"end\": 294.546, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"戰\"}, {\"word\": \"略\", \"start\": 294.546, \"end\": 294.566, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 295.387, \"end\": 320.101, \"text\": \"瓦解臺灣乙武巨頭的意志這是第一項第二項內容是什麼呢韓國瑜現在也精明確宣布他要以九二共識為前提然後使國共兩黨的九二共識逐步成為臺灣社會主導性的看待兩岸關係的思潮那第三項就是要透過特定人士督促韓國瑜、傅坤吉、韓國民黨、立法院的黨團利用議會改革就是國會改革的名義提出立法院的調查權總統的諮詢權、訪台獨等法\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"瓦\", \"start\": 295.387, \"end\": 295.707, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 295.707, \"end\": 296.248, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"臺\"}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"乙\", \"start\": 296.248, \"end\": 296.408, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"組\"}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 326.926, \"end\": 327.446, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 327.446, \"end\": 327.706, \"score\": 0.631}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 327.706, \"end\": 327.867, \"score\": 0.707}, {\"word\": \"華\"}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 327.867, \"end\": 327.967, \"score\": 0.791}, {\"word\": \"促\", \"start\": 327.967, \"end\": 327.987, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 327.987, \"end\": 328.167, \"score\": 0.772}, {\"word\": \"組\"}, {\"word\": \"織\"}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 328.167, \"end\": 328.187, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 328.187, \"end\": 328.287, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"密\", \"start\": 328.287, \"end\": 328.307, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"切\", \"start\": 328.307, \"end\": 328.467, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 328.467, \"end\": 328.487, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 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{\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 502.598, \"end\": 502.778, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 502.778, \"end\": 502.998, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 502.998, \"end\": 503.378, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"談\"}, {\"word\": \"反\", \"start\": 503.378, \"end\": 503.898, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"滲\"}, {\"word\": \"透\", \"start\": 503.898, \"end\": 504.118, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 504.118, \"end\": 504.519, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 504.519, \"end\": 504.659, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 504.659, \"end\": 504.779, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 504.779, \"end\": 504.899, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 504.899, \"end\": 505.039, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 505.039, \"end\": 505.179, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"律\", \"start\": 505.179, \"end\": 505.279, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 505.279, 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{\"word\": \"式\", \"start\": 647.206, \"end\": 647.306, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": \"威\", \"start\": 647.306, \"end\": 647.626, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"脅\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 647.626, \"end\": 647.726, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 647.726, \"end\": 647.806, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 647.806, \"end\": 647.826, \"score\": 0.014}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 647.826, \"end\": 647.846, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 648.106, \"end\": 648.186, \"score\": 0.746}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 648.186, \"end\": 648.387, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"醒\", \"start\": 648.387, \"end\": 648.407, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"en\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,771 --> 00:00:02,337\n有 請 國 安 局 蔡 局 長\n\n2\n00:00:10,325 --> 00:00:37,905\n大 家 好 , 謝 謝 主 席 。 羅 委 員 早 。 局 長 早 。 局 長 在 上 個 禮 拜 , 賴 清 德 總 統 上 任 的 三 天 之 後 , 中 國 就 實 施 了 對 台 灣 的 這 個 還 台 的 這 個 軍 演 。 那 這 次 的 軍 演 是 首 次 覆 蓋 了 金 馬 等 這 個 外 圍 。 那 我 們 要 值 得 注 意 的 就 是 說 , 這 次 的 軍 演 是 繼 2 0 2 2 年 裴 洛 西 議 長 來 台 之 後 , 中 國 對 台 灣 舉 行 了 第 二 次 的 大 型 的 這 個 軍 演 。\n\n3\n00:00:38,906 --> 00:00:39,106\n中 國 軍 演 對 台 灣 的 攻 擊\n\n4\n00:00:54,198 --> 00:00:57,842\n這 個 軍 事 專 家 說 這 麼 大 型 的 軍 演 絕 對 是 已 經 準 備 了 好 幾 個 月 也 就 是 說 不 管 賴 清 德 總 統 講 什 麼 反 正 5 2 0 之 後 我 就 是 要 給 你 下 馬 威 實 際 上 我 們 看 到 應 該 也 都 是 這 個 樣 子 那 剛 剛 局 長 你 有 提 到 就 是 說 這 次 軍 事 的 這 演 習 發 布 的 這 個 行 動 代 號 是 2 0 2 4 A\n\n5\n00:01:15,839 --> 00:01:31,451\n2 0 2 4 有 A , 可 能 還 是 有 B 、 C 、 D 一 系 列 , 2 0 2 4 可 能 他 就 會 對 台 灣 有 一 系 列 的 軍 演 的 這 個 活 動 , 軍 演 的 這 個 演 習 , 那 像 除 了 這 個 軍 演 之 外 , 我 們 也 看 到\n\n6\n00:01:33,572 --> 00:02:01,983\n這 幾 天 有 很 多 臺 灣 的 藝 人 被 迫 表 派 就 是 轉 發 臺 灣 從 來 不 是 一 個 國 家 的 貼 文 所 以 我 們 可 以 看 到 中 國 的 文 攻 武 嚇 從 來 都 沒 有 停 止 過 那 接 下 來 本 期 想 請 教 的 就 是 說 我 不 曉 得 說 國 安 局 有 沒 有 注 意 到 二 月 份 的 一 個 報 導 那 二 月 份 有 一 位 中 國 的 旅 澳\n\n7\n00:02:03,342 --> 00:02:22,483\n法 學 家 袁 紅 冰 他 就 提 到 了 在 這 個 大 選 之 後 習 近 平 他 發 現 韓 國 瑜 也 許 會 當 上 這 個 立 法 院 的 院 長 傅 坤 祺 可 能 會 成 為 國 民 黨 立 法 院 黨 團 的 總 召\n\n8\n00:02:24,605 --> 00:02:27,566\n王 滬 寧 和 宋 濤 要 好 好 地 抓 住 這 兩 個 人 請 問 國 安 局 有 沒 有 掌 握 呢 ? 這 是 在 2 月 份 的 時 候 透 露 的\n\n9\n00:02:45,492 --> 00:02:57,698\n這 兩 天 立 法 院 通 過 這 個 立 法 委 員 立 法 院 的 職 權 行 使 法 這 時 候 才 說 的 他 2 月 份 就 透 露 了 有 這 樣 子 的 這 個 訊 息 而 且 他 有 提 到 就 是 說\n\n10\n00:03:00,311 --> 00:03:11,968\n他 那 時 候 有 提 到 四 個 很 重 要 的 要 點 , 我 不 曉 得 這 裡 面 的 內 容 , 國 安 局 有 沒 有 去 了 解 他 的 真 偽 ? 我 想 請 問 一 下 , 有 沒 有 注 意 到 這 份 報 導 ?\n\n11\n00:03:15,352 --> 00:03:40,984\n對 於 中 共 國 內 的 政 情 以 及 對 台 政 策 的 相 關 的 討 論 跟 動 向 本 局 都 有 關 注 各 種 的 公 情 跟 秘 情 至 於 到 我 們 在 二 合 一 大 選 之 後 因 為 國 內 的 政 治 的 生 態 還 有 結 構 已 經 出 現 一 些 變 化 所 以 我 們 確 實 有 注 意 到 中 共 在 涉 台 政 策 的 討 論 過 程 當 中 他 們 有 去 針 對 未 來 的 一 些 政 策 做 一 些 規 劃 跟 討 論 那 大 概 有 幾 個 重 點 第 一 個 是\n\n12\n00:03:41,684 --> 00:03:48,046\n在 交 流 過 程 當 中 他 們 採 取 的 策 略 大 概 是 會 透 過 這 種 區 隔 對 待 的 方 式 以 及 拉 同 打 疫 的 方 式 來 爭 取 更 多 對 於 中 國 大 陸 相 關 政 策 立 場 的 支 持 所 以 這 個 趨 勢 我 們 一 直 都 有 在 掌 握\n\n13\n00:04:08,635 --> 00:04:31,696\n局 長 你 好 下 面 針 對 的 問 題 我 只 是 要 請 教 您 就 是 說 您 針 對 這 個 袁 紅 冰 她 所 提 出 來 的 這 個 警 告 我 們 事 先 有 沒 有 掌 握 或 是 說 我 們 看 到 這 報 導 有 沒 有 去 了 解 來 那 個 局 長 我 想 跟 您 請 教 一 下 她 有 提 出 了 這 個 四 點 的 這 個\n\n14\n00:04:34,569 --> 00:04:54,566\n說 明 , 他 說 第 一 項 , 他 說 就 是 說 習 近 平 他 有 要 求 , 有 四 項 要 求 第 一 項 就 是 說 要 通 過 各 種 有 效 的 途 徑 要 督 促 韓 國 瑜 、 傅 坤 琦 用 查 閉 案 反 貪 腐 的 名 義 追 查 台 灣 潛 艦 國 造 案 的 問 題 進 而 破 壞 民 進 黨 執 政 當 局 的 這 種 國 防 自 主 、 全 民 國 防 的 戰 略\n\n15\n00:04:55,387 --> 00:05:20,101\n瓦 解 臺 灣 乙 武 巨 頭 的 意 志 這 是 第 一 項 第 二 項 內 容 是 什 麼 呢 韓 國 瑜 現 在 也 精 明 確 宣 布 他 要 以 九 二 共 識 為 前 提 然 後 使 國 共 兩 黨 的 九 二 共 識 逐 步 成 為 臺 灣 社 會 主 導 性 的 看 待 兩 岸 關 係 的 思 潮 那 第 三 項 就 是 要 透 過 特 定 人 士 督 促 韓 國 瑜 、 傅 坤 吉 、 韓 國 民 黨 、 立 法 院 的 黨 團 利 用 議 會 改 革 就 是 國 會 改 革 的 名 義 提 出 立 法 院 的 調 查 權 總 統 的 諮 詢 權 、 訪 台 獨 等 法\n\n16\n00:05:23,763 --> 00:05:28,707\n第 四 點 就 是 要 透 過 特 定 人 士 在 韓 國 瑜 主 導 台 灣 民 主 基 金 會 之 後 呢 督 促 他 通 過 台 灣 民 主 基 金 會 跟 世 界 各 國 的 華 小 組 建 的 中 華 統 一 促 進 會 等 組 織 呢 進 行 密 切 的 接 觸 交 流\n\n17\n00:05:52,028 --> 00:06:07,750\n針 對 這 四 項 內 容 我 想 請 教 局 長 我 們 國 安 局 有 掌 握 這 內 容 的 真 偽 嗎 ? 因 為 現 在 看 起 來 這 幾 天 從 上 個 禮 拜 到 昨 天 所 發 生 立 法 院 的 這 個 混 亂 好 像 就 是 有 劇 本 似 的\n\n18\n00:06:10,614 --> 00:06:28,313\n對 委 員 所 提 到 的 這 位 中 共 的 一 律 作 家 的 一 些 觀 察 我 們 都 有 在 注 意 那 我 一 開 始 有 跟 委 員 說 明 就 我 們 國 家 情 報 單 位 來 講 我 們 不 會 只 單 一 的 去 注 意 到 單 一 的 訓 練\n\n19\n00:06:29,514 --> 00:06:58,012\n除 了 一 個 單 一 訓 練 以 外 公 情 、 秘 情 我 們 都 要 做 各 種 的 交 叉 比 對 才 有 辦 法 來 完 整 的 掌 握 中 共 對 台 相 關 政 策 動 態 那 對 於 剛 剛 這 位 中 國 的 意 義 作 家 的 一 些 觀 點 那 跟 我 們 一 些 情 資 我 們 在 交 叉 比 對 之 後 我 才 會 跟 委 員 說 明 中 共 會 全 力 的 來 經 營 跟 台 灣 各 界 的 接 觸 也 包 括 到 中 央 的 民 意 代 表 也 就 是 立 法 院 地 方 的 民 意 代 表 跟 各 種 的 團 體 的 交 流 那 這 會 變 成 是 他 們 未 來 對 台 政 策 的 一 個 主 要 的 重 點\n\n20\n00:06:59,048 --> 00:07:18,281\n所 以 說 國 台 辦 在 1 月 2 7 號 , 連 時 間 都 非 常 的 明 確 , 說 國 台 辦 在 1 月 2 7 號 就 向 習 近 平 跟 王 滬 寧 提 供 了 一 份 文 件 , 這 題 目 就 叫 做 《 佔 領 台 灣 立 法 院 之 高 點 的 統 戰 戰 略 要 點 》 , 所 以 說 立 法 院 其 實 就 是 他 們 第 一 個 攤 投 堡 , 是 嗎 ? 是 這 樣 嗎 ?\n\n21\n00:07:19,102 --> 00:07:33,289\n在 中 共 涉 台 系 統 的 討 論 當 中 有 特 別 去 注 意 到 立 法 院 的 席 次 結 構 確 實 出 現 變 化 那 他 們 也 提 到 了 應 該 要 加 強 跟 在 野 黨 之 間 的 交 往 還 有 交 流 以 便 來 掌 握 台 灣 相 關 政 策 發 展 的 一 個 脈 動 確 實 是 有 這 樣 的 趨 勢\n\n22\n00:07:35,674 --> 00:07:55,295\n好 , 那 , 局 長 , 我 再 請 問 , 如 果 他 的 這 個 第 三 項 , 要 透 過 特 定 人 士 督 促 韓 國 瑜 、 傅 昆 吉 和 國 民 黨 、 立 委 員 黨 團 的 利 用 黨 團 呢 , 要 提 出 , 比 如 說 提 出 立 法 院 的 調 查 權 、 總 統 的 執 行 權 、 反 台 獨 , 這 樣 子 的 話 , 有 沒 有 這 所 謂 的 特 定 人 士 是 不 是 就 犯 了 反 滲 透 法 ?\n\n23\n00:07:56,389 --> 00:08:25,479\n這 部 分 反 滲 透 法 的 規 定 來 講 它 有 一 些 構 成 的 法 律 要 件 那 當 然 這 部 分 我 們 會 特 別 來 注 意 在 兩 岸 的 一 些 交 往 或 互 動 過 程 當 中 那 有 沒 有 涉 及 到 反 滲 透 法 所 提 到 的 條 文 這 大 概 有 幾 個 重 點 我 跟 委 員 報 告 一 下 第 一 個 是 協 助 中 國 在 台 灣 本 地 發 展 相 關 的 組 織 那 第 二 個 是 竊 取 相 關 的 國 家 機 密 那 第 三 個 就 是 有 沒 有 涉 及 到 可 能 高 科 技 技 術 的 轉 移 的 問 題 那 這 大 概 就 是 我 們 在 談 反 滲 透 法 最 主 要 的 法 律 要 件\n\n24\n00:08:25,859 --> 00:08:51,574\n那 有 沒 有 涉 及 反 滲 透 法 的 第 五 條 規 定 任 何 人 不 得 受 滲 透 來 源 之 指 示 委 託 或 資 助 進 行 遊 說 法 第 二 條 所 定 之 遊 說 行 為 對 , 那 這 部 分 就 必 須 要 有 相 關 的 證 據 我 們 來 注 意 所 以 說 很 有 可 能 對 不 對 這 所 謂 的 特 定 人 士 很 可 能 就 是 所 謂 的 反 滲 透 法 而 且 這 個 受 遊 說 的 受 遊 說 者 呢\n\n25\n00:08:55,663 --> 00:09:15,893\n被 遊 說 者 呢 ? 他 這 有 沒 有 處 罰 ? 如 果 屬 實 的 話 。 對 , 這 就 是 我 剛 剛 所 提 到 的 , 這 個 部 分 事 實 上 有 關 於 那 個 反 滲 透 法 的 法 律 要 件 , 因 為 是 大 院 通 過 的 。 那 我 們 在 查 查 相 關 的 國 安 案 件 過 程 當 中 , 也 會 跟 檢 方 跟\n\n26\n00:09:17,790 --> 00:09:21,592\n我 一 直 在 請 教 您 就 是 說 中 共 到 底 會 不 會 武 力 犯 胎 您 說 您 所 得 到 的 情 報 是 目 前 沒 有 這 個 跡 象 到 目 前 為 止 還 是 沒 有 這 個 跡 象 嗎 ?\n\n27\n00:09:45,781 --> 00:10:02,299\n對 , 跟 委 員 說 明 一 下 當 然 中 共 對 於 各 種 犯 台 的 預 案 它 都 有 積 極 的 在 做 整 備 那 以 這 一 次 的 軍 演 來 講 它 主 要 的 目 的 跟 動 機 還 是 在 於 恫 嚇 並 不 是 要 起 戰 那 所 以 對 於 它 的 整 個 各 種 的 攻 台 的 預 案 如 果 是 說 它 用 另 外 一 種 方 式\n\n28\n00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:20,612\n譬 如 說 我 剛 才 所 提 到 的 袁 紅 冰 所 提 到 的 這 四 項 先 讓 你 台 灣 內 部 亂 讓 台 灣 內 部 的 這 個 協 力 者 跟 他 做 配 合 用 另 外 一 種 方 式 顛 覆 台 灣 有 沒 有 可 能 他 不 是 用 武 力 也 許 他 用 的 是 剛 剛 袁 紅 冰 所 講 的 這 四 項\n\n29\n00:10:22,037 --> 00:10:47,846\n這 是 我 們 所 謂 的 複 合 式 威 脅 的 一 個 做 法 事 實 上 剛 剛 在 進 來 會 議 室 之 前 我 也 跟 外 面 的 媒 體 朋 友 說 明 一 下 我 們 要 注 意 的 複 合 式 威 脅 大 概 有 幾 個 重 點 委 員 事 實 上 剛 才 提 到 了 第 一 個 是 武 力 的 威 脅 跟 恫 嚇 那 第 二 個 是 透 過 海 上 的 灰 色 地 帶 來 凸 顯 中 共 在 台 灣 水 域 的 管 轄 權 把 台 海 內 海 化 第 三 個 就 是 對 台 灣 的 政 治 的 滲 透 那 第 四 個 就 是 認 知 作 戰 的 操 作 那 這 個 大 概 是 我 們 面 臨 到 中 共 複 合 式 威 脅 主 要 的 樣 子\n\n30\n00:10:48,106 --> 00:10:48,407\n謝 謝 委 員 提 醒\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n771\t2337\t有請國安局蔡局長\n10325\t37905\t大家好,謝謝主席。羅委員早。局長早。局長在上個禮拜,賴清德總統上任的三天之後,中國就實施了對台灣的這個還台的這個軍演。那這次的軍演是首次覆蓋了金馬等這個外圍。那我們要值得注意的就是說,這次的軍演是繼2022年裴洛西議長來台之後,中國對台灣舉行了第二次的大型的這個軍演。\n38906\t39106\t中國軍演對台灣的攻擊\n54198\t57842\t這個軍事專家說這麼大型的軍演絕對是已經準備了好幾個月也就是說不管賴清德總統講什麼反正520之後我就是要給你下馬威實際上我們看到應該也都是這個樣子那剛剛局長你有提到就是說這次軍事的這演習發布的這個行動代號是2024A\n75839\t91451\t2024有A,可能還是有B、C、D一系列,2024可能他就會對台灣有一系列的軍演的這個活動,軍演的這個演習,那像除了這個軍演之外,我們也看到\n93572\t121983\t這幾天有很多臺灣的藝人被迫表派就是轉發臺灣從來不是一個國家的貼文所以我們可以看到中國的文攻武嚇從來都沒有停止過那接下來本期想請教的就是說我不曉得說國安局有沒有注意到二月份的一個報導那二月份有一位中國的旅澳\n123342\t142483\t法學家袁紅冰他就提到了在這個大選之後習近平他發現韓國瑜也許會當上這個立法院的院長傅坤祺可能會成為國民黨立法院黨團的總召\n144605\t147566\t王滬寧和宋濤要好好地抓住這兩個人請問國安局有沒有掌握呢?這是在2月份的時候透露的\n165492\t177698\t這兩天立法院通過這個立法委員立法院的職權行使法這時候才說的他2月份就透露了有這樣子的這個訊息而且他有提到就是說\n180311\t191968\t他那時候有提到四個很重要的要點,我不曉得這裡面的內容,國安局有沒有去了解他的真偽?我想請問一下,有沒有注意到這份報導?\n195352\t220984\t對於中共國內的政情以及對台政策的相關的討論跟動向本局都有關注各種的公情跟秘情至於到我們在二合一大選之後因為國內的政治的生態還有結構已經出現一些變化所以我們確實有注意到中共在涉台政策的討論過程當中他們有去針對未來的一些政策做一些規劃跟討論那大概有幾個重點第一個是\n221684\t228046\t在交流過程當中他們採取的策略大概是會透過這種區隔對待的方式以及拉同打疫的方式來爭取更多對於中國大陸相關政策立場的支持所以這個趨勢我們一直都有在掌握\n248635\t271696\t局長你好 下面針對的問題我只是要請教您就是說您針對這個袁紅冰她所提出來的這個警告我們事先有沒有掌握或是說我們看到這報導有沒有去了解來 那個局長我想跟您請教一下她有提出了這個四點的這個\n274569\t294566\t說明,他說第一項,他說就是說習近平他有要求,有四項要求第一項就是說要通過各種有效的途徑要督促韓國瑜、傅坤琦用查閉案反貪腐的名義追查台灣潛艦國造案的問題進而破壞民進黨執政當局的這種國防自主、全民國防的戰略\n295387\t320101\t瓦解臺灣乙武巨頭的意志這是第一項第二項內容是什麼呢韓國瑜現在也精明確宣布他要以九二共識為前提然後使國共兩黨的九二共識逐步成為臺灣社會主導性的看待兩岸關係的思潮那第三項就是要透過特定人士督促韓國瑜、傅坤吉、韓國民黨、立法院的黨團利用議會改革就是國會改革的名義提出立法院的調查權總統的諮詢權、訪台獨等法\n323763\t328707\t第四點就是要透過特定人士在韓國瑜主導台灣民主基金會之後呢督促他通過台灣民主基金會跟世界各國的華小組建的中華統一促進會等組織呢進行密切的接觸交流\n352028\t367750\t針對這四項內容我想請教局長我們國安局有掌握這內容的真偽嗎?因為現在看起來這幾天從上個禮拜到昨天所發生立法院的這個混亂好像就是有劇本似的\n370614\t388313\t對委員所提到的這位中共的一律作家的一些觀察我們都有在注意那我一開始有跟委員說明就我們國家情報單位來講我們不會只單一的去注意到單一的訓練\n389514\t418012\t除了一個單一訓練以外公情、秘情我們都要做各種的交叉比對才有辦法來完整的掌握中共對台相關政策動態那對於剛剛這位中國的意義作家的一些觀點那跟我們一些情資我們在交叉比對之後我才會跟委員說明中共會全力的來經營跟台灣各界的接觸也包括到中央的民意代表也就是立法院地方的民意代表跟各種的團體的交流那這會變成是他們未來對台政策的一個主要的重點\n419048\t438281\t所以說國台辦在1月27號,連時間都非常的明確,說國台辦在1月27號就向習近平跟王滬寧提供了一份文件,這題目就叫做《佔領台灣立法院之高點的統戰戰略要點》,所以說立法院其實就是他們第一個攤投堡,是嗎?是這樣嗎?\n439102\t453289\t在中共涉台系統的討論當中有特別去注意到立法院的席次結構確實出現變化那他們也提到了應該要加強跟在野黨之間的交往還有交流以便來掌握台灣相關政策發展的一個脈動確實是有這樣的趨勢\n455674\t475295\t好,那,局長,我再請問,如果他的這個第三項,要透過特定人士督促韓國瑜、傅昆吉和國民黨、立委員黨團的利用黨團呢,要提出,比如說提出立法院的調查權、總統的執行權、反台獨,這樣子的話,有沒有這所謂的特定人士是不是就犯了反滲透法?\n476389\t505479\t這部分反滲透法的規定來講它有一些構成的法律要件那當然這部分我們會特別來注意在兩岸的一些交往或互動過程當中那有沒有涉及到反滲透法所提到的條文這大概有幾個重點我跟委員報告一下第一個是協助中國在台灣本地發展相關的組織那第二個是竊取相關的國家機密那第三個就是有沒有涉及到可能高科技技術的轉移的問題那這大概就是我們在談反滲透法最主要的法律要件\n505859\t531574\t那有沒有涉及反滲透法的第五條規定任何人不得受滲透來源之指示委託或資助進行遊說法第二條所定之遊說行為對,那這部分就必須要有相關的證據我們來注意所以說很有可能對不對這所謂的特定人士很可能就是所謂的反滲透法而且這個受遊說的受遊說者呢\n535663\t555893\t被遊說者呢?他這有沒有處罰?如果屬實的話。對,這就是我剛剛所提到的,這個部分事實上有關於那個反滲透法的法律要件,因為是大院通過的。那我們在查查相關的國安案件過程當中,也會跟檢方跟\n557790\t561592\t我一直在請教您就是說中共到底會不會武力犯胎您說您所得到的情報是目前沒有這個跡象到目前為止還是沒有這個跡象嗎?\n585781\t602299\t對,跟委員說明一下當然中共對於各種犯台的預案它都有積極的在做整備那以這一次的軍演來講它主要的目的跟動機還是在於恫嚇並不是要起戰那所以對於它的整個各種的攻台的預案如果是說它用另外一種方式\n603360\t620612\t譬如說我剛才所提到的袁紅冰所提到的這四項先讓你台灣內部亂讓台灣內部的這個協力者跟他做配合用另外一種方式顛覆台灣有沒有可能他不是用武力也許他用的是剛剛袁紅冰所講的這四項\n622037\t647846\t這是我們所謂的複合式威脅的一個做法事實上剛剛在進來會議室之前我也跟外面的媒體朋友說明一下我們要注意的複合式威脅大概有幾個重點委員事實上剛才提到了第一個是武力的威脅跟恫嚇那第二個是透過海上的灰色地帶來凸顯中共在台灣水域的管轄權把台海內海化第三個就是對台灣的政治的滲透那第四個就是認知作戰的操作那這個大概是我們面臨到中共複合式威脅主要的樣子\n648106\t648407\t謝謝委員提醒\n","txt":"有請國安局蔡局長\n大家好,謝謝主席。羅委員早。局長早。局長在上個禮拜,賴清德總統上任的三天之後,中國就實施了對台灣的這個還台的這個軍演。那這次的軍演是首次覆蓋了金馬等這個外圍。那我們要值得注意的就是說,這次的軍演是繼2022年裴洛西議長來台之後,中國對台灣舉行了第二次的大型的這個軍演。\n中國軍演對台灣的攻擊\n這個軍事專家說這麼大型的軍演絕對是已經準備了好幾個月也就是說不管賴清德總統講什麼反正520之後我就是要給你下馬威實際上我們看到應該也都是這個樣子那剛剛局長你有提到就是說這次軍事的這演習發布的這個行動代號是2024A\n2024有A,可能還是有B、C、D一系列,2024可能他就會對台灣有一系列的軍演的這個活動,軍演的這個演習,那像除了這個軍演之外,我們也看到\n這幾天有很多臺灣的藝人被迫表派就是轉發臺灣從來不是一個國家的貼文所以我們可以看到中國的文攻武嚇從來都沒有停止過那接下來本期想請教的就是說我不曉得說國安局有沒有注意到二月份的一個報導那二月份有一位中國的旅澳\n法學家袁紅冰他就提到了在這個大選之後習近平他發現韓國瑜也許會當上這個立法院的院長傅坤祺可能會成為國民黨立法院黨團的總召\n王滬寧和宋濤要好好地抓住這兩個人請問國安局有沒有掌握呢?這是在2月份的時候透露的\n這兩天立法院通過這個立法委員立法院的職權行使法這時候才說的他2月份就透露了有這樣子的這個訊息而且他有提到就是說\n他那時候有提到四個很重要的要點,我不曉得這裡面的內容,國安局有沒有去了解他的真偽?我想請問一下,有沒有注意到這份報導?\n對於中共國內的政情以及對台政策的相關的討論跟動向本局都有關注各種的公情跟秘情至於到我們在二合一大選之後因為國內的政治的生態還有結構已經出現一些變化所以我們確實有注意到中共在涉台政策的討論過程當中他們有去針對未來的一些政策做一些規劃跟討論那大概有幾個重點第一個是\n在交流過程當中他們採取的策略大概是會透過這種區隔對待的方式以及拉同打疫的方式來爭取更多對於中國大陸相關政策立場的支持所以這個趨勢我們一直都有在掌握\n局長你好 下面針對的問題我只是要請教您就是說您針對這個袁紅冰她所提出來的這個警告我們事先有沒有掌握或是說我們看到這報導有沒有去了解來 那個局長我想跟您請教一下她有提出了這個四點的這個\n說明,他說第一項,他說就是說習近平他有要求,有四項要求第一項就是說要通過各種有效的途徑要督促韓國瑜、傅坤琦用查閉案反貪腐的名義追查台灣潛艦國造案的問題進而破壞民進黨執政當局的這種國防自主、全民國防的戰略\n瓦解臺灣乙武巨頭的意志這是第一項第二項內容是什麼呢韓國瑜現在也精明確宣布他要以九二共識為前提然後使國共兩黨的九二共識逐步成為臺灣社會主導性的看待兩岸關係的思潮那第三項就是要透過特定人士督促韓國瑜、傅坤吉、韓國民黨、立法院的黨團利用議會改革就是國會改革的名義提出立法院的調查權總統的諮詢權、訪台獨等法\n第四點就是要透過特定人士在韓國瑜主導台灣民主基金會之後呢督促他通過台灣民主基金會跟世界各國的華小組建的中華統一促進會等組織呢進行密切的接觸交流\n針對這四項內容我想請教局長我們國安局有掌握這內容的真偽嗎?因為現在看起來這幾天從上個禮拜到昨天所發生立法院的這個混亂好像就是有劇本似的\n對委員所提到的這位中共的一律作家的一些觀察我們都有在注意那我一開始有跟委員說明就我們國家情報單位來講我們不會只單一的去注意到單一的訓練\n除了一個單一訓練以外公情、秘情我們都要做各種的交叉比對才有辦法來完整的掌握中共對台相關政策動態那對於剛剛這位中國的意義作家的一些觀點那跟我們一些情資我們在交叉比對之後我才會跟委員說明中共會全力的來經營跟台灣各界的接觸也包括到中央的民意代表也就是立法院地方的民意代表跟各種的團體的交流那這會變成是他們未來對台政策的一個主要的重點\n所以說國台辦在1月27號,連時間都非常的明確,說國台辦在1月27號就向習近平跟王滬寧提供了一份文件,這題目就叫做《佔領台灣立法院之高點的統戰戰略要點》,所以說立法院其實就是他們第一個攤投堡,是嗎?是這樣嗎?\n在中共涉台系統的討論當中有特別去注意到立法院的席次結構確實出現變化那他們也提到了應該要加強跟在野黨之間的交往還有交流以便來掌握台灣相關政策發展的一個脈動確實是有這樣的趨勢\n好,那,局長,我再請問,如果他的這個第三項,要透過特定人士督促韓國瑜、傅昆吉和國民黨、立委員黨團的利用黨團呢,要提出,比如說提出立法院的調查權、總統的執行權、反台獨,這樣子的話,有沒有這所謂的特定人士是不是就犯了反滲透法?\n這部分反滲透法的規定來講它有一些構成的法律要件那當然這部分我們會特別來注意在兩岸的一些交往或互動過程當中那有沒有涉及到反滲透法所提到的條文這大概有幾個重點我跟委員報告一下第一個是協助中國在台灣本地發展相關的組織那第二個是竊取相關的國家機密那第三個就是有沒有涉及到可能高科技技術的轉移的問題那這大概就是我們在談反滲透法最主要的法律要件\n那有沒有涉及反滲透法的第五條規定任何人不得受滲透來源之指示委託或資助進行遊說法第二條所定之遊說行為對,那這部分就必須要有相關的證據我們來注意所以說很有可能對不對這所謂的特定人士很可能就是所謂的反滲透法而且這個受遊說的受遊說者呢\n被遊說者呢?他這有沒有處罰?如果屬實的話。對,這就是我剛剛所提到的,這個部分事實上有關於那個反滲透法的法律要件,因為是大院通過的。那我們在查查相關的國安案件過程當中,也會跟檢方跟\n我一直在請教您就是說中共到底會不會武力犯胎您說您所得到的情報是目前沒有這個跡象到目前為止還是沒有這個跡象嗎?\n對,跟委員說明一下當然中共對於各種犯台的預案它都有積極的在做整備那以這一次的軍演來講它主要的目的跟動機還是在於恫嚇並不是要起戰那所以對於它的整個各種的攻台的預案如果是說它用另外一種方式\n譬如說我剛才所提到的袁紅冰所提到的這四項先讓你台灣內部亂讓台灣內部的這個協力者跟他做配合用另外一種方式顛覆台灣有沒有可能他不是用武力也許他用的是剛剛袁紅冰所講的這四項\n這是我們所謂的複合式威脅的一個做法事實上剛剛在進來會議室之前我也跟外面的媒體朋友說明一下我們要注意的複合式威脅大概有幾個重點委員事實上剛才提到了第一個是武力的威脅跟恫嚇那第二個是透過海上的灰色地帶來凸顯中共在台灣水域的管轄權把台海內海化第三個就是對台灣的政治的滲透那第四個就是認知作戰的操作那這個大概是我們面臨到中共複合式威脅主要的樣子\n謝謝委員提醒\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.771 --> 00:02.337\n有 請 國 安 局 蔡 局 長\n\n00:10.325 --> 00:37.905\n大 家 好 , 謝 謝 主 席 。 羅 委 員 早 。 局 長 早 。 局 長 在 上 個 禮 拜 , 賴 清 德 總 統 上 任 的 三 天 之 後 , 中 國 就 實 施 了 對 台 灣 的 這 個 還 台 的 這 個 軍 演 。 那 這 次 的 軍 演 是 首 次 覆 蓋 了 金 馬 等 這 個 外 圍 。 那 我 們 要 值 得 注 意 的 就 是 說 , 這 次 的 軍 演 是 繼 2 0 2 2 年 裴 洛 西 議 長 來 台 之 後 , 中 國 對 台 灣 舉 行 了 第 二 次 的 大 型 的 這 個 軍 演 。\n\n00:38.906 --> 00:39.106\n中 國 軍 演 對 台 灣 的 攻 擊\n\n00:54.198 --> 00:57.842\n這 個 軍 事 專 家 說 這 麼 大 型 的 軍 演 絕 對 是 已 經 準 備 了 好 幾 個 月 也 就 是 說 不 管 賴 清 德 總 統 講 什 麼 反 正 5 2 0 之 後 我 就 是 要 給 你 下 馬 威 實 際 上 我 們 看 到 應 該 也 都 是 這 個 樣 子 那 剛 剛 局 長 你 有 提 到 就 是 說 這 次 軍 事 的 這 演 習 發 布 的 這 個 行 動 代 號 是 2 0 2 4 A\n\n01:15.839 --> 01:31.451\n2 0 2 4 有 A , 可 能 還 是 有 B 、 C 、 D 一 系 列 , 2 0 2 4 可 能 他 就 會 對 台 灣 有 一 系 列 的 軍 演 的 這 個 活 動 , 軍 演 的 這 個 演 習 , 那 像 除 了 這 個 軍 演 之 外 , 我 們 也 看 到\n\n01:33.572 --> 02:01.983\n這 幾 天 有 很 多 臺 灣 的 藝 人 被 迫 表 派 就 是 轉 發 臺 灣 從 來 不 是 一 個 國 家 的 貼 文 所 以 我 們 可 以 看 到 中 國 的 文 攻 武 嚇 從 來 都 沒 有 停 止 過 那 接 下 來 本 期 想 請 教 的 就 是 說 我 不 曉 得 說 國 安 局 有 沒 有 注 意 到 二 月 份 的 一 個 報 導 那 二 月 份 有 一 位 中 國 的 旅 澳\n\n02:03.342 --> 02:22.483\n法 學 家 袁 紅 冰 他 就 提 到 了 在 這 個 大 選 之 後 習 近 平 他 發 現 韓 國 瑜 也 許 會 當 上 這 個 立 法 院 的 院 長 傅 坤 祺 可 能 會 成 為 國 民 黨 立 法 院 黨 團 的 總 召\n\n02:24.605 --> 02:27.566\n王 滬 寧 和 宋 濤 要 好 好 地 抓 住 這 兩 個 人 請 問 國 安 局 有 沒 有 掌 握 呢 ? 這 是 在 2 月 份 的 時 候 透 露 的\n\n02:45.492 --> 02:57.698\n這 兩 天 立 法 院 通 過 這 個 立 法 委 員 立 法 院 的 職 權 行 使 法 這 時 候 才 說 的 他 2 月 份 就 透 露 了 有 這 樣 子 的 這 個 訊 息 而 且 他 有 提 到 就 是 說\n\n03:00.311 --> 03:11.968\n他 那 時 候 有 提 到 四 個 很 重 要 的 要 點 , 我 不 曉 得 這 裡 面 的 內 容 , 國 安 局 有 沒 有 去 了 解 他 的 真 偽 ? 我 想 請 問 一 下 , 有 沒 有 注 意 到 這 份 報 導 ?\n\n03:15.352 --> 03:40.984\n對 於 中 共 國 內 的 政 情 以 及 對 台 政 策 的 相 關 的 討 論 跟 動 向 本 局 都 有 關 注 各 種 的 公 情 跟 秘 情 至 於 到 我 們 在 二 合 一 大 選 之 後 因 為 國 內 的 政 治 的 生 態 還 有 結 構 已 經 出 現 一 些 變 化 所 以 我 們 確 實 有 注 意 到 中 共 在 涉 台 政 策 的 討 論 過 程 當 中 他 們 有 去 針 對 未 來 的 一 些 政 策 做 一 些 規 劃 跟 討 論 那 大 概 有 幾 個 重 點 第 一 個 是\n\n03:41.684 --> 03:48.046\n在 交 流 過 程 當 中 他 們 採 取 的 策 略 大 概 是 會 透 過 這 種 區 隔 對 待 的 方 式 以 及 拉 同 打 疫 的 方 式 來 爭 取 更 多 對 於 中 國 大 陸 相 關 政 策 立 場 的 支 持 所 以 這 個 趨 勢 我 們 一 直 都 有 在 掌 握\n\n04:08.635 --> 04:31.696\n局 長 你 好 下 面 針 對 的 問 題 我 只 是 要 請 教 您 就 是 說 您 針 對 這 個 袁 紅 冰 她 所 提 出 來 的 這 個 警 告 我 們 事 先 有 沒 有 掌 握 或 是 說 我 們 看 到 這 報 導 有 沒 有 去 了 解 來 那 個 局 長 我 想 跟 您 請 教 一 下 她 有 提 出 了 這 個 四 點 的 這 個\n\n04:34.569 --> 04:54.566\n說 明 , 他 說 第 一 項 , 他 說 就 是 說 習 近 平 他 有 要 求 , 有 四 項 要 求 第 一 項 就 是 說 要 通 過 各 種 有 效 的 途 徑 要 督 促 韓 國 瑜 、 傅 坤 琦 用 查 閉 案 反 貪 腐 的 名 義 追 查 台 灣 潛 艦 國 造 案 的 問 題 進 而 破 壞 民 進 黨 執 政 當 局 的 這 種 國 防 自 主 、 全 民 國 防 的 戰 略\n\n04:55.387 --> 05:20.101\n瓦 解 臺 灣 乙 武 巨 頭 的 意 志 這 是 第 一 項 第 二 項 內 容 是 什 麼 呢 韓 國 瑜 現 在 也 精 明 確 宣 布 他 要 以 九 二 共 識 為 前 提 然 後 使 國 共 兩 黨 的 九 二 共 識 逐 步 成 為 臺 灣 社 會 主 導 性 的 看 待 兩 岸 關 係 的 思 潮 那 第 三 項 就 是 要 透 過 特 定 人 士 督 促 韓 國 瑜 、 傅 坤 吉 、 韓 國 民 黨 、 立 法 院 的 黨 團 利 用 議 會 改 革 就 是 國 會 改 革 的 名 義 提 出 立 法 院 的 調 查 權 總 統 的 諮 詢 權 、 訪 台 獨 等 法\n\n05:23.763 --> 05:28.707\n第 四 點 就 是 要 透 過 特 定 人 士 在 韓 國 瑜 主 導 台 灣 民 主 基 金 會 之 後 呢 督 促 他 通 過 台 灣 民 主 基 金 會 跟 世 界 各 國 的 華 小 組 建 的 中 華 統 一 促 進 會 等 組 織 呢 進 行 密 切 的 接 觸 交 流\n\n05:52.028 --> 06:07.750\n針 對 這 四 項 內 容 我 想 請 教 局 長 我 們 國 安 局 有 掌 握 這 內 容 的 真 偽 嗎 ? 因 為 現 在 看 起 來 這 幾 天 從 上 個 禮 拜 到 昨 天 所 發 生 立 法 院 的 這 個 混 亂 好 像 就 是 有 劇 本 似 的\n\n06:10.614 --> 06:28.313\n對 委 員 所 提 到 的 這 位 中 共 的 一 律 作 家 的 一 些 觀 察 我 們 都 有 在 注 意 那 我 一 開 始 有 跟 委 員 說 明 就 我 們 國 家 情 報 單 位 來 講 我 們 不 會 只 單 一 的 去 注 意 到 單 一 的 訓 練\n\n06:29.514 --> 06:58.012\n除 了 一 個 單 一 訓 練 以 外 公 情 、 秘 情 我 們 都 要 做 各 種 的 交 叉 比 對 才 有 辦 法 來 完 整 的 掌 握 中 共 對 台 相 關 政 策 動 態 那 對 於 剛 剛 這 位 中 國 的 意 義 作 家 的 一 些 觀 點 那 跟 我 們 一 些 情 資 我 們 在 交 叉 比 對 之 後 我 才 會 跟 委 員 說 明 中 共 會 全 力 的 來 經 營 跟 台 灣 各 界 的 接 觸 也 包 括 到 中 央 的 民 意 代 表 也 就 是 立 法 院 地 方 的 民 意 代 表 跟 各 種 的 團 體 的 交 流 那 這 會 變 成 是 他 們 未 來 對 台 政 策 的 一 個 主 要 的 重 點\n\n06:59.048 --> 07:18.281\n所 以 說 國 台 辦 在 1 月 2 7 號 , 連 時 間 都 非 常 的 明 確 , 說 國 台 辦 在 1 月 2 7 號 就 向 習 近 平 跟 王 滬 寧 提 供 了 一 份 文 件 , 這 題 目 就 叫 做 《 佔 領 台 灣 立 法 院 之 高 點 的 統 戰 戰 略 要 點 》 , 所 以 說 立 法 院 其 實 就 是 他 們 第 一 個 攤 投 堡 , 是 嗎 ? 是 這 樣 嗎 ?\n\n07:19.102 --> 07:33.289\n在 中 共 涉 台 系 統 的 討 論 當 中 有 特 別 去 注 意 到 立 法 院 的 席 次 結 構 確 實 出 現 變 化 那 他 們 也 提 到 了 應 該 要 加 強 跟 在 野 黨 之 間 的 交 往 還 有 交 流 以 便 來 掌 握 台 灣 相 關 政 策 發 展 的 一 個 脈 動 確 實 是 有 這 樣 的 趨 勢\n\n07:35.674 --> 07:55.295\n好 , 那 , 局 長 , 我 再 請 問 , 如 果 他 的 這 個 第 三 項 , 要 透 過 特 定 人 士 督 促 韓 國 瑜 、 傅 昆 吉 和 國 民 黨 、 立 委 員 黨 團 的 利 用 黨 團 呢 , 要 提 出 , 比 如 說 提 出 立 法 院 的 調 查 權 、 總 統 的 執 行 權 、 反 台 獨 , 這 樣 子 的 話 , 有 沒 有 這 所 謂 的 特 定 人 士 是 不 是 就 犯 了 反 滲 透 法 ?\n\n07:56.389 --> 08:25.479\n這 部 分 反 滲 透 法 的 規 定 來 講 它 有 一 些 構 成 的 法 律 要 件 那 當 然 這 部 分 我 們 會 特 別 來 注 意 在 兩 岸 的 一 些 交 往 或 互 動 過 程 當 中 那 有 沒 有 涉 及 到 反 滲 透 法 所 提 到 的 條 文 這 大 概 有 幾 個 重 點 我 跟 委 員 報 告 一 下 第 一 個 是 協 助 中 國 在 台 灣 本 地 發 展 相 關 的 組 織 那 第 二 個 是 竊 取 相 關 的 國 家 機 密 那 第 三 個 就 是 有 沒 有 涉 及 到 可 能 高 科 技 技 術 的 轉 移 的 問 題 那 這 大 概 就 是 我 們 在 談 反 滲 透 法 最 主 要 的 法 律 要 件\n\n08:25.859 --> 08:51.574\n那 有 沒 有 涉 及 反 滲 透 法 的 第 五 條 規 定 任 何 人 不 得 受 滲 透 來 源 之 指 示 委 託 或 資 助 進 行 遊 說 法 第 二 條 所 定 之 遊 說 行 為 對 , 那 這 部 分 就 必 須 要 有 相 關 的 證 據 我 們 來 注 意 所 以 說 很 有 可 能 對 不 對 這 所 謂 的 特 定 人 士 很 可 能 就 是 所 謂 的 反 滲 透 法 而 且 這 個 受 遊 說 的 受 遊 說 者 呢\n\n08:55.663 --> 09:15.893\n被 遊 說 者 呢 ? 他 這 有 沒 有 處 罰 ? 如 果 屬 實 的 話 。 對 , 這 就 是 我 剛 剛 所 提 到 的 , 這 個 部 分 事 實 上 有 關 於 那 個 反 滲 透 法 的 法 律 要 件 , 因 為 是 大 院 通 過 的 。 那 我 們 在 查 查 相 關 的 國 安 案 件 過 程 當 中 , 也 會 跟 檢 方 跟\n\n09:17.790 --> 09:21.592\n我 一 直 在 請 教 您 就 是 說 中 共 到 底 會 不 會 武 力 犯 胎 您 說 您 所 得 到 的 情 報 是 目 前 沒 有 這 個 跡 象 到 目 前 為 止 還 是 沒 有 這 個 跡 象 嗎 ?\n\n09:45.781 --> 10:02.299\n對 , 跟 委 員 說 明 一 下 當 然 中 共 對 於 各 種 犯 台 的 預 案 它 都 有 積 極 的 在 做 整 備 那 以 這 一 次 的 軍 演 來 講 它 主 要 的 目 的 跟 動 機 還 是 在 於 恫 嚇 並 不 是 要 起 戰 那 所 以 對 於 它 的 整 個 各 種 的 攻 台 的 預 案 如 果 是 說 它 用 另 外 一 種 方 式\n\n10:03.360 --> 10:20.612\n譬 如 說 我 剛 才 所 提 到 的 袁 紅 冰 所 提 到 的 這 四 項 先 讓 你 台 灣 內 部 亂 讓 台 灣 內 部 的 這 個 協 力 者 跟 他 做 配 合 用 另 外 一 種 方 式 顛 覆 台 灣 有 沒 有 可 能 他 不 是 用 武 力 也 許 他 用 的 是 剛 剛 袁 紅 冰 所 講 的 這 四 項\n\n10:22.037 --> 10:47.846\n這 是 我 們 所 謂 的 複 合 式 威 脅 的 一 個 做 法 事 實 上 剛 剛 在 進 來 會 議 室 之 前 我 也 跟 外 面 的 媒 體 朋 友 說 明 一 下 我 們 要 注 意 的 複 合 式 威 脅 大 概 有 幾 個 重 點 委 員 事 實 上 剛 才 提 到 了 第 一 個 是 武 力 的 威 脅 跟 恫 嚇 那 第 二 個 是 透 過 海 上 的 灰 色 地 帶 來 凸 顯 中 共 在 台 灣 水 域 的 管 轄 權 把 台 海 內 海 化 第 三 個 就 是 對 台 灣 的 政 治 的 滲 透 那 第 四 個 就 是 認 知 作 戰 的 操 作 那 這 個 大 概 是 我 們 面 臨 到 中 共 複 合 式 威 脅 主 要 的 樣 子\n\n10:48.106 --> 10:48.407\n謝 謝 委 員 提 醒\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.771,"end":2.337,"text":"有請國安局蔡局長"},{"start":10.325,"end":37.905,"text":"大家好,謝謝主席。羅委員早。局長早。局長在上個禮拜,賴清德總統上任的三天之後,中國就實施了對台灣的這個還台的這個軍演。那這次的軍演是首次覆蓋了金馬等這個外圍。那我們要值得注意的就是說,這次的軍演是繼2022年裴洛西議長來台之後,中國對台灣舉行了第二次的大型的這個軍演。"},{"start":38.906,"end":39.106,"text":"中國軍演對台灣的攻擊"},{"start":54.198,"end":57.842,"text":"這個軍事專家說這麼大型的軍演絕對是已經準備了好幾個月也就是說不管賴清德總統講什麼反正520之後我就是要給你下馬威實際上我們看到應該也都是這個樣子那剛剛局長你有提到就是說這次軍事的這演習發布的這個行動代號是2024A"},{"start":75.839,"end":91.451,"text":"2024有A,可能還是有B、C、D一系列,2024可能他就會對台灣有一系列的軍演的這個活動,軍演的這個演習,那像除了這個軍演之外,我們也看到"},{"start":93.572,"end":121.983,"text":"這幾天有很多臺灣的藝人被迫表派就是轉發臺灣從來不是一個國家的貼文所以我們可以看到中國的文攻武嚇從來都沒有停止過那接下來本期想請教的就是說我不曉得說國安局有沒有注意到二月份的一個報導那二月份有一位中國的旅澳"},{"start":123.342,"end":142.483,"text":"法學家袁紅冰他就提到了在這個大選之後習近平他發現韓國瑜也許會當上這個立法院的院長傅坤祺可能會成為國民黨立法院黨團的總召"},{"start":144.605,"end":147.566,"text":"王滬寧和宋濤要好好地抓住這兩個人請問國安局有沒有掌握呢?這是在2月份的時候透露的"},{"start":165.492,"end":177.698,"text":"這兩天立法院通過這個立法委員立法院的職權行使法這時候才說的他2月份就透露了有這樣子的這個訊息而且他有提到就是說"},{"start":180.311,"end":191.968,"text":"他那時候有提到四個很重要的要點,我不曉得這裡面的內容,國安局有沒有去了解他的真偽?我想請問一下,有沒有注意到這份報導?"},{"start":195.352,"end":220.984,"text":"對於中共國內的政情以及對台政策的相關的討論跟動向本局都有關注各種的公情跟秘情至於到我們在二合一大選之後因為國內的政治的生態還有結構已經出現一些變化所以我們確實有注意到中共在涉台政策的討論過程當中他們有去針對未來的一些政策做一些規劃跟討論那大概有幾個重點第一個是"},{"start":221.684,"end":228.046,"text":"在交流過程當中他們採取的策略大概是會透過這種區隔對待的方式以及拉同打疫的方式來爭取更多對於中國大陸相關政策立場的支持所以這個趨勢我們一直都有在掌握"},{"start":248.635,"end":271.696,"text":"局長你好 下面針對的問題我只是要請教您就是說您針對這個袁紅冰她所提出來的這個警告我們事先有沒有掌握或是說我們看到這報導有沒有去了解來 那個局長我想跟您請教一下她有提出了這個四點的這個"},{"start":274.569,"end":294.566,"text":"說明,他說第一項,他說就是說習近平他有要求,有四項要求第一項就是說要通過各種有效的途徑要督促韓國瑜、傅坤琦用查閉案反貪腐的名義追查台灣潛艦國造案的問題進而破壞民進黨執政當局的這種國防自主、全民國防的戰略"},{"start":295.387,"end":320.101,"text":"瓦解臺灣乙武巨頭的意志這是第一項第二項內容是什麼呢韓國瑜現在也精明確宣布他要以九二共識為前提然後使國共兩黨的九二共識逐步成為臺灣社會主導性的看待兩岸關係的思潮那第三項就是要透過特定人士督促韓國瑜、傅坤吉、韓國民黨、立法院的黨團利用議會改革就是國會改革的名義提出立法院的調查權總統的諮詢權、訪台獨等法"},{"start":323.763,"end":328.707,"text":"第四點就是要透過特定人士在韓國瑜主導台灣民主基金會之後呢督促他通過台灣民主基金會跟世界各國的華小組建的中華統一促進會等組織呢進行密切的接觸交流"},{"start":352.028,"end":367.75,"text":"針對這四項內容我想請教局長我們國安局有掌握這內容的真偽嗎?因為現在看起來這幾天從上個禮拜到昨天所發生立法院的這個混亂好像就是有劇本似的"},{"start":370.614,"end":388.313,"text":"對委員所提到的這位中共的一律作家的一些觀察我們都有在注意那我一開始有跟委員說明就我們國家情報單位來講我們不會只單一的去注意到單一的訓練"},{"start":389.514,"end":418.012,"text":"除了一個單一訓練以外公情、秘情我們都要做各種的交叉比對才有辦法來完整的掌握中共對台相關政策動態那對於剛剛這位中國的意義作家的一些觀點那跟我們一些情資我們在交叉比對之後我才會跟委員說明中共會全力的來經營跟台灣各界的接觸也包括到中央的民意代表也就是立法院地方的民意代表跟各種的團體的交流那這會變成是他們未來對台政策的一個主要的重點"},{"start":419.048,"end":438.281,"text":"所以說國台辦在1月27號,連時間都非常的明確,說國台辦在1月27號就向習近平跟王滬寧提供了一份文件,這題目就叫做《佔領台灣立法院之高點的統戰戰略要點》,所以說立法院其實就是他們第一個攤投堡,是嗎?是這樣嗎?"},{"start":439.102,"end":453.289,"text":"在中共涉台系統的討論當中有特別去注意到立法院的席次結構確實出現變化那他們也提到了應該要加強跟在野黨之間的交往還有交流以便來掌握台灣相關政策發展的一個脈動確實是有這樣的趨勢"},{"start":455.674,"end":475.295,"text":"好,那,局長,我再請問,如果他的這個第三項,要透過特定人士督促韓國瑜、傅昆吉和國民黨、立委員黨團的利用黨團呢,要提出,比如說提出立法院的調查權、總統的執行權、反台獨,這樣子的話,有沒有這所謂的特定人士是不是就犯了反滲透法?"},{"start":476.389,"end":505.479,"text":"這部分反滲透法的規定來講它有一些構成的法律要件那當然這部分我們會特別來注意在兩岸的一些交往或互動過程當中那有沒有涉及到反滲透法所提到的條文這大概有幾個重點我跟委員報告一下第一個是協助中國在台灣本地發展相關的組織那第二個是竊取相關的國家機密那第三個就是有沒有涉及到可能高科技技術的轉移的問題那這大概就是我們在談反滲透法最主要的法律要件"},{"start":505.859,"end":531.574,"text":"那有沒有涉及反滲透法的第五條規定任何人不得受滲透來源之指示委託或資助進行遊說法第二條所定之遊說行為對,那這部分就必須要有相關的證據我們來注意所以說很有可能對不對這所謂的特定人士很可能就是所謂的反滲透法而且這個受遊說的受遊說者呢"},{"start":535.663,"end":555.893,"text":"被遊說者呢?他這有沒有處罰?如果屬實的話。對,這就是我剛剛所提到的,這個部分事實上有關於那個反滲透法的法律要件,因為是大院通過的。那我們在查查相關的國安案件過程當中,也會跟檢方跟"},{"start":557.79,"end":561.592,"text":"我一直在請教您就是說中共到底會不會武力犯胎您說您所得到的情報是目前沒有這個跡象到目前為止還是沒有這個跡象嗎?"},{"start":585.781,"end":602.299,"text":"對,跟委員說明一下當然中共對於各種犯台的預案它都有積極的在做整備那以這一次的軍演來講它主要的目的跟動機還是在於恫嚇並不是要起戰那所以對於它的整個各種的攻台的預案如果是說它用另外一種方式"},{"start":603.36,"end":620.612,"text":"譬如說我剛才所提到的袁紅冰所提到的這四項先讓你台灣內部亂讓台灣內部的這個協力者跟他做配合用另外一種方式顛覆台灣有沒有可能他不是用武力也許他用的是剛剛袁紅冰所講的這四項"},{"start":622.037,"end":647.846,"text":"這是我們所謂的複合式威脅的一個做法事實上剛剛在進來會議室之前我也跟外面的媒體朋友說明一下我們要注意的複合式威脅大概有幾個重點委員事實上剛才提到了第一個是武力的威脅跟恫嚇那第二個是透過海上的灰色地帶來凸顯中共在台灣水域的管轄權把台海內海化第三個就是對台灣的政治的滲透那第四個就是認知作戰的操作那這個大概是我們面臨到中共複合式威脅主要的樣子"},{"start":648.106,"end":648.407,"text":"謝謝委員提醒"}]}}}}