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627.168, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 627.168, \"end\": 627.609, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 627.609, \"end\": 627.769, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 627.769, \"end\": 627.89, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"寵\"}, {\"word\": \"寬\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 627.89, \"end\": 627.95, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 627.95, \"end\": 628.01, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"醒\", \"start\": 628.01, \"end\": 628.03, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"en\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,969 --> 00:00:11,314\n請 蔡 局 長 好 謝 主 席 洪 委 員 早\n\n2\n00:00:12,725 --> 00:00:32,973\n局 長 在 這 個 我 想 5 2 0 賴 總 統 就 職 之 後 那 中 國 在 我 們 看 到 在 5 月 2 3 號 在 台 海 周 遭 其 實 就 這 個 發 動 了 所 謂 聯 合 力 艦 的 大 規 模 的 軍 演 那 上 一 次 當 然 我 們 看 到 比 較 大 規 模 的 軍 演 是 2 0 2 2 年 的 佩 洛 西 議 長 來 台 的 時 候\n\n3\n00:00:35,834 --> 00:01:00,957\n但 這 兩 次 的 軍 演 我 們 看 到 當 然 它 的 範 圍 其 實 不 太 一 樣 在 2 0 2 2 年 的 時 候 其 實 比 較 多 是 聚 焦 在 台 海 中 線 那 這 一 次 我 們 看 到 包 括 這 個 紅 色 的 色 塊 尤 其 是 更 變 本 加 厲 是 在 我 們 離 島 的 地 區 我 們 看 到 在 2 0 2 2 年 的 時 候 針 對 離 島 地 區 是 比 較 少 的 但 這 一 次 非 常 聚 焦 在 我 們 的 離 島 地 區\n\n4\n00:01:04,133 --> 00:01:16,900\n這 些 區 塊 我 們 現 在 看 到 包 括 金 門 、 馬 祖 、 東 營 之 前 在 金 門 才 發 生 了 中 國 漁 船 的 問 題 其 實 造 成 很 大 的\n\n5\n00:01:18,321 --> 00:01:18,421\n下 一 張\n\n6\n00:01:47,501 --> 00:02:15,785\n那 也 包 括 我 們 看 到 幾 個 包 括 美 國 智 庫 的 專 家 那 講 到 中 國 軍 人 新 的 焦 點 是 孤 立 臺 灣 離 島 就 這 部 分 我 想 問 這 個 局 長 你 們 掌 握 到 什 麼 程 度 對 就 像 委 員 剛 剛 所 提 出 來 的 這 一 次 的 演 習 跟 工 軍 過 往 的 演 習 有 一 個 差 別 性 過 去 主 要 是 集 中 在 臺 灣 的 周 邊 海 空 域 那 這 一 次 的 演 習 所 宣 布 的 有 九 個 的 演 習 區 域 他 除 了 臺 灣 本 島 以 外 還 包 括 我 們 的 外 離 島\n\n7\n00:02:16,425 --> 00:02:43,066\n像 是 金 門 、 馬 祖 、 烏 丘 跟 東 營 那 特 別 在 演 習 的 期 間 他 動 員 到 海 警 的 編 隊 有 在 相 關 的 水 域 來 進 行 執 法 的 巡 查 的 一 個 演 練 的 活 動 那 主 要 的 目 的 就 是 在 於 凸 顯 他 在 台 海 地 區 的 管 轄 權 跟 執 法 權 有 點 要 把 台 海 內 海 化 的 這 種 意 圖 在 裡 面 所 以 這 部 分 我 們 會 特 別 的 在 加 強 跟 海 巡 署 之 間 的 一 個 溝 通 聯 繫 透 過 情 報 的 分 享 來 提 醒 到 中 共 活 動 的 動 態\n\n8\n00:02:44,247 --> 00:03:11,140\n局 長 如 果 今 天 這 個 中 共 他 們 一 個 重 要 的 目 的 跟 戰 略 是 要 孤 立 台 灣 的 離 島 或 者 是 以 離 島 作 為 一 個 灰 色 地 帶 的 戰 略 的 標 的 的 話 那 我 們 大 家 都 知 道 其 實 要 攻 佔 一 個 區 域 或 孤 立 一 個 區 域 其 實 很 重 要 是 必 須 截 斷 他 們 的 通 訊 對 那 就 你 們 現 在 的 這 個 情 報 在 可 以 講 的 範 圍 內\n\n9\n00:03:13,829 --> 00:03:42,065\n中 國 有 沒 有 要 截 斷 我 們 離 島 通 訊 的 計 畫 因 為 這 問 題 之 前 也 在 委 員 會 這 邊 有 跟 委 員 報 告 跟 討 論 過 在 過 去 這 兩 三 年 裡 面 大 概 中 共 去 截 斷 了 我 們 臺 馬 之 間 的 海 底 電 纜 已 經 有 二 十 幾 次 的 次 數 那 次 數 非 常 的 一 個 頻 密 那 所 以 假 如 說 透 過 一 個 海 底 電 纜 的 一 個 截 斷 的 方 式 那 確 實 會 對 於 我 們 海 島 外 離 島 的 一 個 通 訊 的 安 全 造 成 一 些 危 害 局 長 這 是 我 為 什 麼 一 直 在\n\n10\n00:03:43,186 --> 00:04:04,808\n委 員 會 裡 面 一 直 要 跟 國 安 局 來 詢 問 這 個 原 因 這 個 題 目 的 原 因 之 前 我 在 5 月 1 號 的 時 候 其 實 我 也 我 想 問 過 蔡 局 長 也 包 括 國 土 辦 那 這 次 再 加 上 這 次 5 2 3 的 這 次 演 習 之 後 看 到 他 們 其 實 對 我 們 離 島 這 個 聚 焦 的 態 勢 所 以 我 要 問\n\n11\n00:04:07,229 --> 00:04:27,006\n局 長 , 你 在 5 月 1 號 答 詢 的 時 候 , 你 有 很 清 楚 的 表 達 , 你 覺 得 台 馬 海 嵐 跟 其 他 的 國 內 海 嵐 的 功 能 跟 定 位 你 覺 得 不 同 , 所 以 你 認 為 應 該 列 入 到 C . I 。 那 現 在 你 說 你 要 回 去 溝 通 , 那 經 過 了 大 概 快 一 個 月 的 時 間 , 那 你 們 現 在 溝 通 的 狀 況 怎 麼 樣 ?\n\n12\n00:04:28,487 --> 00:04:52,865\n上 次 在 跟 委 員 討 論 過 程 當 中 我 們 從 國 安 的 角 度 來 講 確 實 認 為 外 離 島 的 通 訊 安 全 跟 韌 性 非 常 的 重 要 那 委 員 在 上 次 表 達 這 個 關 注 之 後 那 我 們 在 會 後 也 跟 行 政 院 的 相 關 的 單 位 特 別 是 國 土 辦 有 做 一 些 討 論 那 國 土 辦 是 在 5 月 1 5 號 就 像 委 員 在 螢 幕 上 所 顯 示 的 資 料 一 樣 有 召 開 跨 部 會 的 會 議 來 進 行 協 調 討 論 議 題 就 是 要 把 外 離 島 的 這 些 海 底 電 纜\n\n13\n00:04:57,088 --> 00:05:03,089\n所 以 這 場 會 議 你 們 有 參 與 ? 對 , 我 們 有 派 員 參 加 那 現 在 這 場 會 議 之 後 的 方 向 是 什 麼 ? 大 概 就 是 往 加 強 重 視 外 離 島 的 海 南 安 全 的 方 向 在 規 劃 那 就 你 知 道 會 把 臺 滿 海 南 列 入 C I A 嗎 ?\n\n14\n00:05:21,553 --> 00:05:50,450\n目 前 朝 這 方 向 在 規 劃 那 至 少 包 括 不 只 是 C I 也 許 是 C C I 也 就 是 C o n d i t i o n a l C r i t i c a l I n f r a s t r u c t u r e 也 就 是 它 是 一 個 準 或 類 C I 的 概 念 來 維 護 外 離 島 的 海 嵐 安 全 往 這 方 向 在 規 劃 局 長 我 覺 得 你 們 應 該 要 非 常 非 常 堅 持 從 國 家 安 全 的 本 位 對 在 從 國 家 安 全 的 本 位 裡 面 坦 白 說 我 真 的 到 目 前 為 止 聽 不 出 來 有 任 何 理 由 可 以 不 把 台 馬 海 嵐 列 入 C I 是\n\n15\n00:05:51,531 --> 00:06:08,220\n不 管 是 各 層 級 的 演 練 或 者 是 相 關 的 維 護 計 畫 包 括 現 在 中 共 對 於 我 們 在 離 島 這 樣 子 的 關 注 甚 至 聚 焦 有 可 能 大 家 看 到 前 面 的 這 些 國 際 的 軍 事 的 專 家 的 這 樣 子 的 提 醒\n\n16\n00:06:09,221 --> 00:06:22,756\n我 實 在 是 想 不 出 任 何 一 點 理 由 可 以 不 把 他 列 入 C I A 當 然 今 天 速 發 部 沒 有 在 現 場 但 我 要 請 局 長 我 覺 得 你 們 一 定 要 堅 持 你 們 安 全 的 本 位 這 個 事 情 從 安 全 的 本 位 來 告 訴\n\n17\n00:06:24,150 --> 00:06:47,577\n其 他 的 主 管 部 會 不 要 再 從 這 種 想 要 便 宜 形 式 的 角 度 來 看 待 這 個 事 情 這 是 我 下 面 一 個 想 要 跟 局 長 討 論 的 問 題 其 實 我 們 看 到 列 入 C i 的 話 有 幾 個 非 常 重 要 的 重 點 是 他 定 期 評 估 風 險 威 脅 及 弱 點 然 後 撰 寫 計 劃 書 定 期 核 實 實 際 的 執 行 成 效 這 是 現 在 我 們 為 什 麼 要 列 入 C i 下 一 張 那\n\n18\n00:06:50,448 --> 00:07:17,520\n這 個 我 們 要 求 幾 個 相 關 部 要 求 相 關 部 會 要 提 安 全 防 護 計 畫 那 第 一 集 的 話 送 行 政 院 第 二 集 第 三 集 送 主 管 機 關 那 各 自 有 各 自 演 練 的 成 績 可 是 局 長 我 要 請 問 其 實 我 們 知 道 現 在 中 共 對 我 們 的 各 種 軟 的 硬 的 攻 擊 其 實 它 也 不 斷 的 在 轉 變 那 現 在 就 國 安 局 的 角 度 有 沒 有 跟 我 們 這 些 相 關 的 主 管 部 會 有 什 麼 樣 的 合 作 的 機 制\n\n19\n00:07:18,700 --> 00:07:39,447\n對 , 這 大 概 分 兩 個 面 向 , 一 個 部 分 是 行 政 院 有 召 開 國 土 安 全 的 跨 部 會 協 調 會 報 是 由 行 政 院 的 副 院 長 主 持 , 那 本 局 會 派 我 們 的 副 局 長 去 參 加 相 關 的 會 報 來 在 會 議 當 中 跟 各 部 會 來 溝 通 協 調 相 關 C I 維 護 的 一 個 機 制 的 建 立 那 我 們 當 然 會 特 別 從 國 安 的 角 度 來 提 醒 各 單 位 要 注 意 這 個 重 點 , 這 是 第 一 個 平 台\n\n20\n00:07:39,887 --> 00:08:06,653\n第 二 平 台 是 國 安 局 本 身 由 我 們 的 國 家 情 報 協 調 的 機 制 那 在 這 個 平 台 我 們 會 邀 請 國 土 辦 來 參 加 相 關 的 討 論 那 我 們 會 分 享 現 在 國 際 上 在 防 範 C I 的 相 關 的 整 備 作 業 的 重 點 在 哪 裡 那 也 來 提 醒 各 部 會 應 該 要 注 意 到 這 樣 的 發 展 趨 勢 就 讓 我 這 邊 會 特 別 想 要 提 這 件 事 情 主 要 是 因 為 我 知 道 其 實 你 們 相 對 於 其 他 的 部 會 相 對 於 國 土 辦 或 相 對 於 主 案 機 關 其 實 你 們 有 一 個 別 人 沒 有 的 東 西 其 實 就 是 關 於 你 的 情 報 資 訊 對\n\n21\n00:08:08,853 --> 00:08:30,685\n其 實 這 個 情 報 資 訊 對 於 其 他 主 管 機 關 來 說 他 要 做 各 種 防 範 或 演 練 的 計 畫 或 者 是 風 險 管 理 的 計 畫 來 說 他 必 須 先 知 道 可 能 會 有 的 攻 擊 樣 態 是 什 麼 這 個 事 情 的 資 訊 是 來 自 於 情 報 所 以 如 果 其 他 主 管 機 關 對 於 中 共 或 者 是 對 於 我 們 的\n\n22\n00:08:32,895 --> 00:08:58,387\n敵 對 勢 力 他 們 的 攻 擊 樣 態 不 熟 悉 不 了 解 陌 生 的 時 候 其 實 你 可 以 想 像 他 寫 的 防 護 計 畫 的 效 果 有 效 性 其 實 是 非 常 非 常 差 的 所 以 我 當 然 希 望 說 其 實 這 個 部 分 是 要 請 國 安 局 來 跟 其 他 部 會 甚 至 不 是 只 是 在 這 個 會 議 上 面 提 出 而 已 其 實 是 應 該 是 要 有 一 個 情 報 提 供 的 工 作 計 畫 這 個 情 報 提 供 工 作 計 畫 裡 面 協 助 我 們 的 主 管 機 關\n\n23\n00:09:07,232 --> 00:09:26,123\n這 才 有 可 能 去 進 一 步 去 修 改 他 們 的 防 護 計 畫 我 想 這 個 工 作 的 流 程 是 今 天 為 什 麼 一 直 想 要 在 這 邊 一 直 提 醒 局 長 的 原 因 那 我 自 己 是 希 望 說 可 能 不 只 是 在 那 個 匯 報 上 面 提 出 來 而 已 如 果 這 個 目 前 其 實 幾 個 部 會 來 跟 官 局 來 要 求 相 關 的 提\n\n24\n00:09:27,523 --> 00:09:56,093\n這 個 情 報 或 情 資 的 提 供 目 前 狀 況 怎 麼 樣 事 實 上 除 了 剛 剛 講 的 兩 個 主 要 的 協 調 匯 報 的 機 制 以 外 在 每 一 天 的 工 作 階 層 的 互 動 當 中 也 都 有 很 多 的 專 案 小 組 那 國 安 局 有 被 邀 請 的 話 我 們 一 定 是 堅 持 我 們 的 國 安 專 業 那 也 把 國 際 社 會 相 關 防 護 C I 的 作 業 樣 態 來 提 供 給 各 部 會 來 做 參 考 那 行 政 院 他 們 也 會 規 劃 比 如 像 精 華 演 習 來 針 對 關 鍵 設 施 的 防 護 做 必 要 的 演 練 跟 協 調 那 這 部 分 我 們 會 提 供 我 們 的 意 見\n\n25\n00:09:57,354 --> 00:10:19,409\n這 部 分 再 麻 煩 局 長 我 覺 得 跟 其 他 主 管 機 關 因 為 我 其 實 問 了 一 些 主 管 機 關 相 關 他 們 防 護 計 畫 或 者 對 於 被 攻 擊 樣 態 的 情 境 的 設 定 坦 白 說 因 為 他 們 不 在 場 我 就 不 多 說 但 我 聽 起 來 是 有 點 令 人 擔 心 的 他 們 對 於 對 方 可 能 會 攻 擊 或 威 脅 我 們 的 各 種 做 法\n\n26\n00:10:20,551 --> 00:10:28,030\n我 覺 得 想 像 是 不 夠 豐 富 想 像 是 不 夠 仔 細 的 這 部 分 真 的 要 請 國 安 局 來 協 助 他 我 們 料 題 寵 寬 謝 謝 委 員 提 醒\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n969\t11314\t請蔡局長好 謝主席 洪委員早\n12725\t32973\t局長在這個我想520賴總統就職之後那中國在我們看到在5月23號在台海周遭其實就這個發動了所謂聯合力艦的大規模的軍演那上一次當然我們看到比較大規模的軍演是2022年的佩洛西議長來台的時候\n35834\t60957\t但這兩次的軍演我們看到當然它的範圍其實不太一樣在2022年的時候其實比較多是聚焦在台海中線那這一次我們看到包括這個紅色的色塊尤其是更變本加厲是在我們離島的地區我們看到在2022年的時候針對離島地區是比較少的但這一次非常聚焦在我們的離島地區\n64133\t76900\t這些區塊我們現在看到包括金門、馬祖、東營之前在金門才發生了中國漁船的問題其實造成很大的\n78321\t78421\t下一張\n107501\t135785\t那也包括我們看到幾個包括美國智庫的專家那講到中國軍人新的焦點是孤立臺灣離島就這部分我想問這個局長你們掌握到什麼程度對就像委員剛剛所提出來的這一次的演習跟工軍過往的演習有一個差別性過去主要是集中在臺灣的周邊海空域那這一次的演習所宣布的有九個的演習區域他除了臺灣本島以外還包括我們的外離島\n136425\t163066\t像是金門、馬祖、烏丘跟東營那特別在演習的期間他動員到海警的編隊有在相關的水域來進行執法的巡查的一個演練的活動那主要的目的就是在於凸顯他在台海地區的管轄權跟執法權有點要把台海內海化的這種意圖在裡面所以這部分我們會特別的在加強跟海巡署之間的一個溝通聯繫透過情報的分享來提醒到中共活動的動態\n164247\t191140\t局長如果今天這個中共他們一個重要的目的跟戰略是要孤立台灣的離島或者是以離島作為一個灰色地帶的戰略的標的的話那我們大家都知道其實要攻佔一個區域或孤立一個區域其實很重要是必須截斷他們的通訊對那就你們現在的這個情報在可以講的範圍內\n193829\t222065\t中國有沒有要截斷我們離島通訊的計畫因為這問題之前也在委員會這邊有跟委員報告跟討論過在過去這兩三年裡面大概中共去截斷了我們臺馬之間的海底電纜已經有二十幾次的次數那次數非常的一個頻密那所以假如說透過一個海底電纜的一個截斷的方式那確實會對於我們海島外離島的一個通訊的安全造成一些危害局長這是我為什麼一直在\n223186\t244808\t委員會裡面一直要跟國安局來詢問這個原因這個題目的原因之前我在5月1號的時候其實我也我想問過蔡局長也包括國土辦那這次再加上這次523的這次演習之後看到他們其實對我們離島這個聚焦的態勢所以我要問\n247229\t267006\t局長,你在5月1號答詢的時候,你有很清楚的表達,你覺得台馬海嵐跟其他的國內海嵐的功能跟定位你覺得不同,所以你認為應該列入到C.I。那現在你說你要回去溝通,那經過了大概快一個月的時間,那你們現在溝通的狀況怎麼樣?\n268487\t292865\t上次在跟委員討論過程當中我們從國安的角度來講確實認為外離島的通訊安全跟韌性非常的重要那委員在上次表達這個關注之後那我們在會後也跟行政院的相關的單位特別是國土辦有做一些討論那國土辦是在5月15號就像委員在螢幕上所顯示的資料一樣有召開跨部會的會議來進行協調討論議題就是要把外離島的這些海底電纜\n297088\t303089\t所以這場會議你們有參與?對,我們有派員參加那現在這場會議之後的方向是什麼?大概就是往加強重視外離島的海南安全的方向在規劃那就你知道會把臺滿海南列入CIA嗎?\n321553\t350450\t目前朝這方向在規劃那至少包括不只是CI也許是CCI也就是Conditional Critical Infrastructure也就是它是一個準或類CI的概念來維護外離島的海嵐安全往這方向在規劃局長我覺得你們應該要非常非常堅持從國家安全的本位對在從國家安全的本位裡面坦白說我真的到目前為止聽不出來有任何理由可以不把台馬海嵐列入CI是\n351531\t368220\t不管是各層級的演練或者是相關的維護計畫包括現在中共對於我們在離島這樣子的關注甚至聚焦有可能大家看到前面的這些國際的軍事的專家的這樣子的提醒\n369221\t382756\t我實在是想不出任何一點理由可以不把他列入CIA當然今天速發部沒有在現場但我要請局長我覺得你們一定要堅持你們安全的本位這個事情從安全的本位來告訴\n384150\t407577\t其他的主管部會不要再從這種想要便宜形式的角度來看待這個事情這是我下面一個想要跟局長討論的問題其實我們看到列入Ci的話有幾個非常重要的重點是他定期評估風險威脅及弱點然後撰寫計劃書定期核實實際的執行成效這是現在我們為什麼要列入Ci下一張那\n410448\t437520\t這個我們要求幾個相關部要求相關部會要提安全防護計畫那第一集的話送行政院第二集第三集送主管機關那各自有各自演練的成績可是局長我要請問其實我們知道現在中共對我們的各種軟的硬的攻擊其實它也不斷的在轉變那現在就國安局的角度有沒有跟我們這些相關的主管部會有什麼樣的合作的機制\n438700\t459447\t對,這大概分兩個面向,一個部分是行政院有召開國土安全的跨部會協調會報是由行政院的副院長主持,那本局會派我們的副局長去參加相關的會報來在會議當中跟各部會來溝通協調相關CI維護的一個機制的建立那我們當然會特別從國安的角度來提醒各單位要注意這個重點,這是第一個平台\n459887\t486653\t第二平台是國安局本身由我們的國家情報協調的機制那在這個平台我們會邀請國土辦來參加相關的討論那我們會分享現在國際上在防範CI的相關的整備作業的重點在哪裡那也來提醒各部會應該要注意到這樣的發展趨勢就讓我這邊會特別想要提這件事情主要是因為我知道其實你們相對於其他的部會相對於國土辦或相對於主案機關其實你們有一個別人沒有的東西其實就是關於你的情報資訊對\n488853\t510685\t其實這個情報資訊對於其他主管機關來說他要做各種防範或演練的計畫或者是風險管理的計畫來說他必須先知道可能會有的攻擊樣態是什麼這個事情的資訊是來自於情報所以如果其他主管機關對於中共或者是對於我們的\n512895\t538387\t敵對勢力他們的攻擊樣態不熟悉不了解陌生的時候其實你可以想像他寫的防護計畫的效果有效性其實是非常非常差的所以我當然希望說其實這個部分是要請國安局來跟其他部會甚至不是只是在這個會議上面提出而已其實是應該是要有一個情報提供的工作計畫這個情報提供工作計畫裡面協助我們的主管機關\n547232\t566123\t這才有可能去進一步去修改他們的防護計畫我想這個工作的流程是今天為什麼一直想要在這邊一直提醒局長的原因那我自己是希望說可能不只是在那個匯報上面提出來而已如果這個目前其實幾個部會來跟官局來要求相關的提\n567523\t596093\t這個情報或情資的提供目前狀況怎麼樣事實上除了剛剛講的兩個主要的協調匯報的機制以外在每一天的工作階層的互動當中也都有很多的專案小組那國安局有被邀請的話我們一定是堅持我們的國安專業那也把國際社會相關防護CI的作業樣態來提供給各部會來做參考那行政院他們也會規劃比如像精華演習來針對關鍵設施的防護做必要的演練跟協調那這部分我們會提供我們的意見\n597354\t619409\t這部分再麻煩局長我覺得跟其他主管機關因為我其實問了一些主管機關相關他們防護計畫或者對於被攻擊樣態的情境的設定坦白說因為他們不在場我就不多說但我聽起來是有點令人擔心的他們對於對方可能會攻擊或威脅我們的各種做法\n620551\t628030\t我覺得想像是不夠豐富想像是不夠仔細的這部分真的要請國安局來協助他我們料題寵寬謝謝委員提醒\n","txt":"請蔡局長好 謝主席 洪委員早\n局長在這個我想520賴總統就職之後那中國在我們看到在5月23號在台海周遭其實就這個發動了所謂聯合力艦的大規模的軍演那上一次當然我們看到比較大規模的軍演是2022年的佩洛西議長來台的時候\n但這兩次的軍演我們看到當然它的範圍其實不太一樣在2022年的時候其實比較多是聚焦在台海中線那這一次我們看到包括這個紅色的色塊尤其是更變本加厲是在我們離島的地區我們看到在2022年的時候針對離島地區是比較少的但這一次非常聚焦在我們的離島地區\n這些區塊我們現在看到包括金門、馬祖、東營之前在金門才發生了中國漁船的問題其實造成很大的\n下一張\n那也包括我們看到幾個包括美國智庫的專家那講到中國軍人新的焦點是孤立臺灣離島就這部分我想問這個局長你們掌握到什麼程度對就像委員剛剛所提出來的這一次的演習跟工軍過往的演習有一個差別性過去主要是集中在臺灣的周邊海空域那這一次的演習所宣布的有九個的演習區域他除了臺灣本島以外還包括我們的外離島\n像是金門、馬祖、烏丘跟東營那特別在演習的期間他動員到海警的編隊有在相關的水域來進行執法的巡查的一個演練的活動那主要的目的就是在於凸顯他在台海地區的管轄權跟執法權有點要把台海內海化的這種意圖在裡面所以這部分我們會特別的在加強跟海巡署之間的一個溝通聯繫透過情報的分享來提醒到中共活動的動態\n局長如果今天這個中共他們一個重要的目的跟戰略是要孤立台灣的離島或者是以離島作為一個灰色地帶的戰略的標的的話那我們大家都知道其實要攻佔一個區域或孤立一個區域其實很重要是必須截斷他們的通訊對那就你們現在的這個情報在可以講的範圍內\n中國有沒有要截斷我們離島通訊的計畫因為這問題之前也在委員會這邊有跟委員報告跟討論過在過去這兩三年裡面大概中共去截斷了我們臺馬之間的海底電纜已經有二十幾次的次數那次數非常的一個頻密那所以假如說透過一個海底電纜的一個截斷的方式那確實會對於我們海島外離島的一個通訊的安全造成一些危害局長這是我為什麼一直在\n委員會裡面一直要跟國安局來詢問這個原因這個題目的原因之前我在5月1號的時候其實我也我想問過蔡局長也包括國土辦那這次再加上這次523的這次演習之後看到他們其實對我們離島這個聚焦的態勢所以我要問\n局長,你在5月1號答詢的時候,你有很清楚的表達,你覺得台馬海嵐跟其他的國內海嵐的功能跟定位你覺得不同,所以你認為應該列入到C.I。那現在你說你要回去溝通,那經過了大概快一個月的時間,那你們現在溝通的狀況怎麼樣?\n上次在跟委員討論過程當中我們從國安的角度來講確實認為外離島的通訊安全跟韌性非常的重要那委員在上次表達這個關注之後那我們在會後也跟行政院的相關的單位特別是國土辦有做一些討論那國土辦是在5月15號就像委員在螢幕上所顯示的資料一樣有召開跨部會的會議來進行協調討論議題就是要把外離島的這些海底電纜\n所以這場會議你們有參與?對,我們有派員參加那現在這場會議之後的方向是什麼?大概就是往加強重視外離島的海南安全的方向在規劃那就你知道會把臺滿海南列入CIA嗎?\n目前朝這方向在規劃那至少包括不只是CI也許是CCI也就是Conditional Critical Infrastructure也就是它是一個準或類CI的概念來維護外離島的海嵐安全往這方向在規劃局長我覺得你們應該要非常非常堅持從國家安全的本位對在從國家安全的本位裡面坦白說我真的到目前為止聽不出來有任何理由可以不把台馬海嵐列入CI是\n不管是各層級的演練或者是相關的維護計畫包括現在中共對於我們在離島這樣子的關注甚至聚焦有可能大家看到前面的這些國際的軍事的專家的這樣子的提醒\n我實在是想不出任何一點理由可以不把他列入CIA當然今天速發部沒有在現場但我要請局長我覺得你們一定要堅持你們安全的本位這個事情從安全的本位來告訴\n其他的主管部會不要再從這種想要便宜形式的角度來看待這個事情這是我下面一個想要跟局長討論的問題其實我們看到列入Ci的話有幾個非常重要的重點是他定期評估風險威脅及弱點然後撰寫計劃書定期核實實際的執行成效這是現在我們為什麼要列入Ci下一張那\n這個我們要求幾個相關部要求相關部會要提安全防護計畫那第一集的話送行政院第二集第三集送主管機關那各自有各自演練的成績可是局長我要請問其實我們知道現在中共對我們的各種軟的硬的攻擊其實它也不斷的在轉變那現在就國安局的角度有沒有跟我們這些相關的主管部會有什麼樣的合作的機制\n對,這大概分兩個面向,一個部分是行政院有召開國土安全的跨部會協調會報是由行政院的副院長主持,那本局會派我們的副局長去參加相關的會報來在會議當中跟各部會來溝通協調相關CI維護的一個機制的建立那我們當然會特別從國安的角度來提醒各單位要注意這個重點,這是第一個平台\n第二平台是國安局本身由我們的國家情報協調的機制那在這個平台我們會邀請國土辦來參加相關的討論那我們會分享現在國際上在防範CI的相關的整備作業的重點在哪裡那也來提醒各部會應該要注意到這樣的發展趨勢就讓我這邊會特別想要提這件事情主要是因為我知道其實你們相對於其他的部會相對於國土辦或相對於主案機關其實你們有一個別人沒有的東西其實就是關於你的情報資訊對\n其實這個情報資訊對於其他主管機關來說他要做各種防範或演練的計畫或者是風險管理的計畫來說他必須先知道可能會有的攻擊樣態是什麼這個事情的資訊是來自於情報所以如果其他主管機關對於中共或者是對於我們的\n敵對勢力他們的攻擊樣態不熟悉不了解陌生的時候其實你可以想像他寫的防護計畫的效果有效性其實是非常非常差的所以我當然希望說其實這個部分是要請國安局來跟其他部會甚至不是只是在這個會議上面提出而已其實是應該是要有一個情報提供的工作計畫這個情報提供工作計畫裡面協助我們的主管機關\n這才有可能去進一步去修改他們的防護計畫我想這個工作的流程是今天為什麼一直想要在這邊一直提醒局長的原因那我自己是希望說可能不只是在那個匯報上面提出來而已如果這個目前其實幾個部會來跟官局來要求相關的提\n這個情報或情資的提供目前狀況怎麼樣事實上除了剛剛講的兩個主要的協調匯報的機制以外在每一天的工作階層的互動當中也都有很多的專案小組那國安局有被邀請的話我們一定是堅持我們的國安專業那也把國際社會相關防護CI的作業樣態來提供給各部會來做參考那行政院他們也會規劃比如像精華演習來針對關鍵設施的防護做必要的演練跟協調那這部分我們會提供我們的意見\n這部分再麻煩局長我覺得跟其他主管機關因為我其實問了一些主管機關相關他們防護計畫或者對於被攻擊樣態的情境的設定坦白說因為他們不在場我就不多說但我聽起來是有點令人擔心的他們對於對方可能會攻擊或威脅我們的各種做法\n我覺得想像是不夠豐富想像是不夠仔細的這部分真的要請國安局來協助他我們料題寵寬謝謝委員提醒\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.969 --> 00:11.314\n請 蔡 局 長 好 謝 主 席 洪 委 員 早\n\n00:12.725 --> 00:32.973\n局 長 在 這 個 我 想 5 2 0 賴 總 統 就 職 之 後 那 中 國 在 我 們 看 到 在 5 月 2 3 號 在 台 海 周 遭 其 實 就 這 個 發 動 了 所 謂 聯 合 力 艦 的 大 規 模 的 軍 演 那 上 一 次 當 然 我 們 看 到 比 較 大 規 模 的 軍 演 是 2 0 2 2 年 的 佩 洛 西 議 長 來 台 的 時 候\n\n00:35.834 --> 01:00.957\n但 這 兩 次 的 軍 演 我 們 看 到 當 然 它 的 範 圍 其 實 不 太 一 樣 在 2 0 2 2 年 的 時 候 其 實 比 較 多 是 聚 焦 在 台 海 中 線 那 這 一 次 我 們 看 到 包 括 這 個 紅 色 的 色 塊 尤 其 是 更 變 本 加 厲 是 在 我 們 離 島 的 地 區 我 們 看 到 在 2 0 2 2 年 的 時 候 針 對 離 島 地 區 是 比 較 少 的 但 這 一 次 非 常 聚 焦 在 我 們 的 離 島 地 區\n\n01:04.133 --> 01:16.900\n這 些 區 塊 我 們 現 在 看 到 包 括 金 門 、 馬 祖 、 東 營 之 前 在 金 門 才 發 生 了 中 國 漁 船 的 問 題 其 實 造 成 很 大 的\n\n01:18.321 --> 01:18.421\n下 一 張\n\n01:47.501 --> 02:15.785\n那 也 包 括 我 們 看 到 幾 個 包 括 美 國 智 庫 的 專 家 那 講 到 中 國 軍 人 新 的 焦 點 是 孤 立 臺 灣 離 島 就 這 部 分 我 想 問 這 個 局 長 你 們 掌 握 到 什 麼 程 度 對 就 像 委 員 剛 剛 所 提 出 來 的 這 一 次 的 演 習 跟 工 軍 過 往 的 演 習 有 一 個 差 別 性 過 去 主 要 是 集 中 在 臺 灣 的 周 邊 海 空 域 那 這 一 次 的 演 習 所 宣 布 的 有 九 個 的 演 習 區 域 他 除 了 臺 灣 本 島 以 外 還 包 括 我 們 的 外 離 島\n\n02:16.425 --> 02:43.066\n像 是 金 門 、 馬 祖 、 烏 丘 跟 東 營 那 特 別 在 演 習 的 期 間 他 動 員 到 海 警 的 編 隊 有 在 相 關 的 水 域 來 進 行 執 法 的 巡 查 的 一 個 演 練 的 活 動 那 主 要 的 目 的 就 是 在 於 凸 顯 他 在 台 海 地 區 的 管 轄 權 跟 執 法 權 有 點 要 把 台 海 內 海 化 的 這 種 意 圖 在 裡 面 所 以 這 部 分 我 們 會 特 別 的 在 加 強 跟 海 巡 署 之 間 的 一 個 溝 通 聯 繫 透 過 情 報 的 分 享 來 提 醒 到 中 共 活 動 的 動 態\n\n02:44.247 --> 03:11.140\n局 長 如 果 今 天 這 個 中 共 他 們 一 個 重 要 的 目 的 跟 戰 略 是 要 孤 立 台 灣 的 離 島 或 者 是 以 離 島 作 為 一 個 灰 色 地 帶 的 戰 略 的 標 的 的 話 那 我 們 大 家 都 知 道 其 實 要 攻 佔 一 個 區 域 或 孤 立 一 個 區 域 其 實 很 重 要 是 必 須 截 斷 他 們 的 通 訊 對 那 就 你 們 現 在 的 這 個 情 報 在 可 以 講 的 範 圍 內\n\n03:13.829 --> 03:42.065\n中 國 有 沒 有 要 截 斷 我 們 離 島 通 訊 的 計 畫 因 為 這 問 題 之 前 也 在 委 員 會 這 邊 有 跟 委 員 報 告 跟 討 論 過 在 過 去 這 兩 三 年 裡 面 大 概 中 共 去 截 斷 了 我 們 臺 馬 之 間 的 海 底 電 纜 已 經 有 二 十 幾 次 的 次 數 那 次 數 非 常 的 一 個 頻 密 那 所 以 假 如 說 透 過 一 個 海 底 電 纜 的 一 個 截 斷 的 方 式 那 確 實 會 對 於 我 們 海 島 外 離 島 的 一 個 通 訊 的 安 全 造 成 一 些 危 害 局 長 這 是 我 為 什 麼 一 直 在\n\n03:43.186 --> 04:04.808\n委 員 會 裡 面 一 直 要 跟 國 安 局 來 詢 問 這 個 原 因 這 個 題 目 的 原 因 之 前 我 在 5 月 1 號 的 時 候 其 實 我 也 我 想 問 過 蔡 局 長 也 包 括 國 土 辦 那 這 次 再 加 上 這 次 5 2 3 的 這 次 演 習 之 後 看 到 他 們 其 實 對 我 們 離 島 這 個 聚 焦 的 態 勢 所 以 我 要 問\n\n04:07.229 --> 04:27.006\n局 長 , 你 在 5 月 1 號 答 詢 的 時 候 , 你 有 很 清 楚 的 表 達 , 你 覺 得 台 馬 海 嵐 跟 其 他 的 國 內 海 嵐 的 功 能 跟 定 位 你 覺 得 不 同 , 所 以 你 認 為 應 該 列 入 到 C . I 。 那 現 在 你 說 你 要 回 去 溝 通 , 那 經 過 了 大 概 快 一 個 月 的 時 間 , 那 你 們 現 在 溝 通 的 狀 況 怎 麼 樣 ?\n\n04:28.487 --> 04:52.865\n上 次 在 跟 委 員 討 論 過 程 當 中 我 們 從 國 安 的 角 度 來 講 確 實 認 為 外 離 島 的 通 訊 安 全 跟 韌 性 非 常 的 重 要 那 委 員 在 上 次 表 達 這 個 關 注 之 後 那 我 們 在 會 後 也 跟 行 政 院 的 相 關 的 單 位 特 別 是 國 土 辦 有 做 一 些 討 論 那 國 土 辦 是 在 5 月 1 5 號 就 像 委 員 在 螢 幕 上 所 顯 示 的 資 料 一 樣 有 召 開 跨 部 會 的 會 議 來 進 行 協 調 討 論 議 題 就 是 要 把 外 離 島 的 這 些 海 底 電 纜\n\n04:57.088 --> 05:03.089\n所 以 這 場 會 議 你 們 有 參 與 ? 對 , 我 們 有 派 員 參 加 那 現 在 這 場 會 議 之 後 的 方 向 是 什 麼 ? 大 概 就 是 往 加 強 重 視 外 離 島 的 海 南 安 全 的 方 向 在 規 劃 那 就 你 知 道 會 把 臺 滿 海 南 列 入 C I A 嗎 ?\n\n05:21.553 --> 05:50.450\n目 前 朝 這 方 向 在 規 劃 那 至 少 包 括 不 只 是 C I 也 許 是 C C I 也 就 是 C o n d i t i o n a l C r i t i c a l I n f r a s t r u c t u r e 也 就 是 它 是 一 個 準 或 類 C I 的 概 念 來 維 護 外 離 島 的 海 嵐 安 全 往 這 方 向 在 規 劃 局 長 我 覺 得 你 們 應 該 要 非 常 非 常 堅 持 從 國 家 安 全 的 本 位 對 在 從 國 家 安 全 的 本 位 裡 面 坦 白 說 我 真 的 到 目 前 為 止 聽 不 出 來 有 任 何 理 由 可 以 不 把 台 馬 海 嵐 列 入 C I 是\n\n05:51.531 --> 06:08.220\n不 管 是 各 層 級 的 演 練 或 者 是 相 關 的 維 護 計 畫 包 括 現 在 中 共 對 於 我 們 在 離 島 這 樣 子 的 關 注 甚 至 聚 焦 有 可 能 大 家 看 到 前 面 的 這 些 國 際 的 軍 事 的 專 家 的 這 樣 子 的 提 醒\n\n06:09.221 --> 06:22.756\n我 實 在 是 想 不 出 任 何 一 點 理 由 可 以 不 把 他 列 入 C I A 當 然 今 天 速 發 部 沒 有 在 現 場 但 我 要 請 局 長 我 覺 得 你 們 一 定 要 堅 持 你 們 安 全 的 本 位 這 個 事 情 從 安 全 的 本 位 來 告 訴\n\n06:24.150 --> 06:47.577\n其 他 的 主 管 部 會 不 要 再 從 這 種 想 要 便 宜 形 式 的 角 度 來 看 待 這 個 事 情 這 是 我 下 面 一 個 想 要 跟 局 長 討 論 的 問 題 其 實 我 們 看 到 列 入 C i 的 話 有 幾 個 非 常 重 要 的 重 點 是 他 定 期 評 估 風 險 威 脅 及 弱 點 然 後 撰 寫 計 劃 書 定 期 核 實 實 際 的 執 行 成 效 這 是 現 在 我 們 為 什 麼 要 列 入 C i 下 一 張 那\n\n06:50.448 --> 07:17.520\n這 個 我 們 要 求 幾 個 相 關 部 要 求 相 關 部 會 要 提 安 全 防 護 計 畫 那 第 一 集 的 話 送 行 政 院 第 二 集 第 三 集 送 主 管 機 關 那 各 自 有 各 自 演 練 的 成 績 可 是 局 長 我 要 請 問 其 實 我 們 知 道 現 在 中 共 對 我 們 的 各 種 軟 的 硬 的 攻 擊 其 實 它 也 不 斷 的 在 轉 變 那 現 在 就 國 安 局 的 角 度 有 沒 有 跟 我 們 這 些 相 關 的 主 管 部 會 有 什 麼 樣 的 合 作 的 機 制\n\n07:18.700 --> 07:39.447\n對 , 這 大 概 分 兩 個 面 向 , 一 個 部 分 是 行 政 院 有 召 開 國 土 安 全 的 跨 部 會 協 調 會 報 是 由 行 政 院 的 副 院 長 主 持 , 那 本 局 會 派 我 們 的 副 局 長 去 參 加 相 關 的 會 報 來 在 會 議 當 中 跟 各 部 會 來 溝 通 協 調 相 關 C I 維 護 的 一 個 機 制 的 建 立 那 我 們 當 然 會 特 別 從 國 安 的 角 度 來 提 醒 各 單 位 要 注 意 這 個 重 點 , 這 是 第 一 個 平 台\n\n07:39.887 --> 08:06.653\n第 二 平 台 是 國 安 局 本 身 由 我 們 的 國 家 情 報 協 調 的 機 制 那 在 這 個 平 台 我 們 會 邀 請 國 土 辦 來 參 加 相 關 的 討 論 那 我 們 會 分 享 現 在 國 際 上 在 防 範 C I 的 相 關 的 整 備 作 業 的 重 點 在 哪 裡 那 也 來 提 醒 各 部 會 應 該 要 注 意 到 這 樣 的 發 展 趨 勢 就 讓 我 這 邊 會 特 別 想 要 提 這 件 事 情 主 要 是 因 為 我 知 道 其 實 你 們 相 對 於 其 他 的 部 會 相 對 於 國 土 辦 或 相 對 於 主 案 機 關 其 實 你 們 有 一 個 別 人 沒 有 的 東 西 其 實 就 是 關 於 你 的 情 報 資 訊 對\n\n08:08.853 --> 08:30.685\n其 實 這 個 情 報 資 訊 對 於 其 他 主 管 機 關 來 說 他 要 做 各 種 防 範 或 演 練 的 計 畫 或 者 是 風 險 管 理 的 計 畫 來 說 他 必 須 先 知 道 可 能 會 有 的 攻 擊 樣 態 是 什 麼 這 個 事 情 的 資 訊 是 來 自 於 情 報 所 以 如 果 其 他 主 管 機 關 對 於 中 共 或 者 是 對 於 我 們 的\n\n08:32.895 --> 08:58.387\n敵 對 勢 力 他 們 的 攻 擊 樣 態 不 熟 悉 不 了 解 陌 生 的 時 候 其 實 你 可 以 想 像 他 寫 的 防 護 計 畫 的 效 果 有 效 性 其 實 是 非 常 非 常 差 的 所 以 我 當 然 希 望 說 其 實 這 個 部 分 是 要 請 國 安 局 來 跟 其 他 部 會 甚 至 不 是 只 是 在 這 個 會 議 上 面 提 出 而 已 其 實 是 應 該 是 要 有 一 個 情 報 提 供 的 工 作 計 畫 這 個 情 報 提 供 工 作 計 畫 裡 面 協 助 我 們 的 主 管 機 關\n\n09:07.232 --> 09:26.123\n這 才 有 可 能 去 進 一 步 去 修 改 他 們 的 防 護 計 畫 我 想 這 個 工 作 的 流 程 是 今 天 為 什 麼 一 直 想 要 在 這 邊 一 直 提 醒 局 長 的 原 因 那 我 自 己 是 希 望 說 可 能 不 只 是 在 那 個 匯 報 上 面 提 出 來 而 已 如 果 這 個 目 前 其 實 幾 個 部 會 來 跟 官 局 來 要 求 相 關 的 提\n\n09:27.523 --> 09:56.093\n這 個 情 報 或 情 資 的 提 供 目 前 狀 況 怎 麼 樣 事 實 上 除 了 剛 剛 講 的 兩 個 主 要 的 協 調 匯 報 的 機 制 以 外 在 每 一 天 的 工 作 階 層 的 互 動 當 中 也 都 有 很 多 的 專 案 小 組 那 國 安 局 有 被 邀 請 的 話 我 們 一 定 是 堅 持 我 們 的 國 安 專 業 那 也 把 國 際 社 會 相 關 防 護 C I 的 作 業 樣 態 來 提 供 給 各 部 會 來 做 參 考 那 行 政 院 他 們 也 會 規 劃 比 如 像 精 華 演 習 來 針 對 關 鍵 設 施 的 防 護 做 必 要 的 演 練 跟 協 調 那 這 部 分 我 們 會 提 供 我 們 的 意 見\n\n09:57.354 --> 10:19.409\n這 部 分 再 麻 煩 局 長 我 覺 得 跟 其 他 主 管 機 關 因 為 我 其 實 問 了 一 些 主 管 機 關 相 關 他 們 防 護 計 畫 或 者 對 於 被 攻 擊 樣 態 的 情 境 的 設 定 坦 白 說 因 為 他 們 不 在 場 我 就 不 多 說 但 我 聽 起 來 是 有 點 令 人 擔 心 的 他 們 對 於 對 方 可 能 會 攻 擊 或 威 脅 我 們 的 各 種 做 法\n\n10:20.551 --> 10:28.030\n我 覺 得 想 像 是 不 夠 豐 富 想 像 是 不 夠 仔 細 的 這 部 分 真 的 要 請 國 安 局 來 協 助 他 我 們 料 題 寵 寬 謝 謝 委 員 提 醒\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.969,"end":11.314,"text":"請蔡局長好 謝主席 洪委員早"},{"start":12.725,"end":32.973,"text":"局長在這個我想520賴總統就職之後那中國在我們看到在5月23號在台海周遭其實就這個發動了所謂聯合力艦的大規模的軍演那上一次當然我們看到比較大規模的軍演是2022年的佩洛西議長來台的時候"},{"start":35.834,"end":60.957,"text":"但這兩次的軍演我們看到當然它的範圍其實不太一樣在2022年的時候其實比較多是聚焦在台海中線那這一次我們看到包括這個紅色的色塊尤其是更變本加厲是在我們離島的地區我們看到在2022年的時候針對離島地區是比較少的但這一次非常聚焦在我們的離島地區"},{"start":64.133,"end":76.9,"text":"這些區塊我們現在看到包括金門、馬祖、東營之前在金門才發生了中國漁船的問題其實造成很大的"},{"start":78.321,"end":78.421,"text":"下一張"},{"start":107.501,"end":135.785,"text":"那也包括我們看到幾個包括美國智庫的專家那講到中國軍人新的焦點是孤立臺灣離島就這部分我想問這個局長你們掌握到什麼程度對就像委員剛剛所提出來的這一次的演習跟工軍過往的演習有一個差別性過去主要是集中在臺灣的周邊海空域那這一次的演習所宣布的有九個的演習區域他除了臺灣本島以外還包括我們的外離島"},{"start":136.425,"end":163.066,"text":"像是金門、馬祖、烏丘跟東營那特別在演習的期間他動員到海警的編隊有在相關的水域來進行執法的巡查的一個演練的活動那主要的目的就是在於凸顯他在台海地區的管轄權跟執法權有點要把台海內海化的這種意圖在裡面所以這部分我們會特別的在加強跟海巡署之間的一個溝通聯繫透過情報的分享來提醒到中共活動的動態"},{"start":164.247,"end":191.14,"text":"局長如果今天這個中共他們一個重要的目的跟戰略是要孤立台灣的離島或者是以離島作為一個灰色地帶的戰略的標的的話那我們大家都知道其實要攻佔一個區域或孤立一個區域其實很重要是必須截斷他們的通訊對那就你們現在的這個情報在可以講的範圍內"},{"start":193.829,"end":222.065,"text":"中國有沒有要截斷我們離島通訊的計畫因為這問題之前也在委員會這邊有跟委員報告跟討論過在過去這兩三年裡面大概中共去截斷了我們臺馬之間的海底電纜已經有二十幾次的次數那次數非常的一個頻密那所以假如說透過一個海底電纜的一個截斷的方式那確實會對於我們海島外離島的一個通訊的安全造成一些危害局長這是我為什麼一直在"},{"start":223.186,"end":244.808,"text":"委員會裡面一直要跟國安局來詢問這個原因這個題目的原因之前我在5月1號的時候其實我也我想問過蔡局長也包括國土辦那這次再加上這次523的這次演習之後看到他們其實對我們離島這個聚焦的態勢所以我要問"},{"start":247.229,"end":267.006,"text":"局長,你在5月1號答詢的時候,你有很清楚的表達,你覺得台馬海嵐跟其他的國內海嵐的功能跟定位你覺得不同,所以你認為應該列入到C.I。那現在你說你要回去溝通,那經過了大概快一個月的時間,那你們現在溝通的狀況怎麼樣?"},{"start":268.487,"end":292.865,"text":"上次在跟委員討論過程當中我們從國安的角度來講確實認為外離島的通訊安全跟韌性非常的重要那委員在上次表達這個關注之後那我們在會後也跟行政院的相關的單位特別是國土辦有做一些討論那國土辦是在5月15號就像委員在螢幕上所顯示的資料一樣有召開跨部會的會議來進行協調討論議題就是要把外離島的這些海底電纜"},{"start":297.088,"end":303.089,"text":"所以這場會議你們有參與?對,我們有派員參加那現在這場會議之後的方向是什麼?大概就是往加強重視外離島的海南安全的方向在規劃那就你知道會把臺滿海南列入CIA嗎?"},{"start":321.553,"end":350.45,"text":"目前朝這方向在規劃那至少包括不只是CI也許是CCI也就是Conditional Critical Infrastructure也就是它是一個準或類CI的概念來維護外離島的海嵐安全往這方向在規劃局長我覺得你們應該要非常非常堅持從國家安全的本位對在從國家安全的本位裡面坦白說我真的到目前為止聽不出來有任何理由可以不把台馬海嵐列入CI是"},{"start":351.531,"end":368.22,"text":"不管是各層級的演練或者是相關的維護計畫包括現在中共對於我們在離島這樣子的關注甚至聚焦有可能大家看到前面的這些國際的軍事的專家的這樣子的提醒"},{"start":369.221,"end":382.756,"text":"我實在是想不出任何一點理由可以不把他列入CIA當然今天速發部沒有在現場但我要請局長我覺得你們一定要堅持你們安全的本位這個事情從安全的本位來告訴"},{"start":384.15,"end":407.577,"text":"其他的主管部會不要再從這種想要便宜形式的角度來看待這個事情這是我下面一個想要跟局長討論的問題其實我們看到列入Ci的話有幾個非常重要的重點是他定期評估風險威脅及弱點然後撰寫計劃書定期核實實際的執行成效這是現在我們為什麼要列入Ci下一張那"},{"start":410.448,"end":437.52,"text":"這個我們要求幾個相關部要求相關部會要提安全防護計畫那第一集的話送行政院第二集第三集送主管機關那各自有各自演練的成績可是局長我要請問其實我們知道現在中共對我們的各種軟的硬的攻擊其實它也不斷的在轉變那現在就國安局的角度有沒有跟我們這些相關的主管部會有什麼樣的合作的機制"},{"start":438.7,"end":459.447,"text":"對,這大概分兩個面向,一個部分是行政院有召開國土安全的跨部會協調會報是由行政院的副院長主持,那本局會派我們的副局長去參加相關的會報來在會議當中跟各部會來溝通協調相關CI維護的一個機制的建立那我們當然會特別從國安的角度來提醒各單位要注意這個重點,這是第一個平台"},{"start":459.887,"end":486.653,"text":"第二平台是國安局本身由我們的國家情報協調的機制那在這個平台我們會邀請國土辦來參加相關的討論那我們會分享現在國際上在防範CI的相關的整備作業的重點在哪裡那也來提醒各部會應該要注意到這樣的發展趨勢就讓我這邊會特別想要提這件事情主要是因為我知道其實你們相對於其他的部會相對於國土辦或相對於主案機關其實你們有一個別人沒有的東西其實就是關於你的情報資訊對"},{"start":488.853,"end":510.685,"text":"其實這個情報資訊對於其他主管機關來說他要做各種防範或演練的計畫或者是風險管理的計畫來說他必須先知道可能會有的攻擊樣態是什麼這個事情的資訊是來自於情報所以如果其他主管機關對於中共或者是對於我們的"},{"start":512.895,"end":538.387,"text":"敵對勢力他們的攻擊樣態不熟悉不了解陌生的時候其實你可以想像他寫的防護計畫的效果有效性其實是非常非常差的所以我當然希望說其實這個部分是要請國安局來跟其他部會甚至不是只是在這個會議上面提出而已其實是應該是要有一個情報提供的工作計畫這個情報提供工作計畫裡面協助我們的主管機關"},{"start":547.232,"end":566.123,"text":"這才有可能去進一步去修改他們的防護計畫我想這個工作的流程是今天為什麼一直想要在這邊一直提醒局長的原因那我自己是希望說可能不只是在那個匯報上面提出來而已如果這個目前其實幾個部會來跟官局來要求相關的提"},{"start":567.523,"end":596.093,"text":"這個情報或情資的提供目前狀況怎麼樣事實上除了剛剛講的兩個主要的協調匯報的機制以外在每一天的工作階層的互動當中也都有很多的專案小組那國安局有被邀請的話我們一定是堅持我們的國安專業那也把國際社會相關防護CI的作業樣態來提供給各部會來做參考那行政院他們也會規劃比如像精華演習來針對關鍵設施的防護做必要的演練跟協調那這部分我們會提供我們的意見"},{"start":597.354,"end":619.409,"text":"這部分再麻煩局長我覺得跟其他主管機關因為我其實問了一些主管機關相關他們防護計畫或者對於被攻擊樣態的情境的設定坦白說因為他們不在場我就不多說但我聽起來是有點令人擔心的他們對於對方可能會攻擊或威脅我們的各種做法"},{"start":620.551,"end":628.03,"text":"我覺得想像是不夠豐富想像是不夠仔細的這部分真的要請國安局來協助他我們料題寵寬謝謝委員提醒"}]}}}}