{"id":153183,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153183","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/2c978e04ca5e133171369ba85f45ba36d0e137800dc086ea333bc5d453e1b1953a001556f561b11a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葛如鈞","委員發言時間":"09:40:41 - 09:53:01","影片長度":"00:12:20","會議時間":"2024-05-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽及經濟部次長列席就「展望全球核能發電趨勢，我國核電廠延役推動現況暨發展新型核能成為永續能源之規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【5月27日及29日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-29","duration":740,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-14"},"end_time":"2024-05-29T09:53:01+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-29T09:40:41+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":189,"blocks":[["葛委員如鈞：（9時40分）謝謝主席，有請核安會陳東陽主委跟經濟部林全能次長備詢。"],["主席：請主委跟次長，謝謝。"],["陳主任委員東陽：葛委員早。"],["葛委員如鈞：主委早，也恭喜您順利留任。林次長好，今天很難得經濟部來到教文委員會，您今天站在這裡跟核安會主委一起，我相信你應該是認同核能安全的。經濟部的書面報告清楚地呈現，接下來國際能源署的報告裡面有說，全球核能的發電占比會先上升再下降，2030年可能從8%到10%，到2050年以後才會再次下降，這是全球的趨勢，臺灣可能沒有辦法獨善其身。剛剛洪孟楷委員提到，我們一年可能會增加3%，但接下來關機又少3%，所以這真的是一個沒有辦法忽視的問題。","今天是賴政府上臺的第10天，能源政策關乎我們每一天的生活，但是執政黨政府對於核能的態度，我自己覺得有點友達以上戀人未滿，又想抱又想不抱，又想牽又想不牽，猶豫不決，兩者關係非常曖昧。賴總統最屬意的、過去曾經討論過的行政院長人選童子賢先生就曾經說：地球暖化才是人類公敵，核能不是。次長、主委，你們兩位認同這個說法嗎？沒有關係，我知道現在在薛丁格的狀態，對不對？"],["林次長全能：我們共同要去面對……"],["葛委員如鈞：盒子還沒打開，就不知道到底誰才是我們的敵人，不知道安不安全。讓您回答一下，認不認同？"],["林次長全能：我想我們要共同面對的是全球暖化，這個我是認同的。"],["葛委員如鈞：所以核能的部分就暫時不碰，我們今天的主題是什麼？核電廠延役推動現況。沒有關係，接下來我們還提到更多的小型核電、創新核電。其實不只是童先生，卓院長也說：政府會打造更穩定經濟發展的環境，繼續發展綠能，但追求非核家園是永不可放棄的目標。有人說，可以考慮核電；有人接著又說，一定要非核家園。我想請教次長，我們現在到底是要先追求穩定經濟發展，還是先追求非核家園？先哪一個？"],["林次長全能：我想站在經濟部的立場，很重要的任務是要追求經濟的穩定發展和創造價值。"],["葛委員如鈞：先追求穩定發展，所以非核家園可能可以放在旁邊了嗎？神主牌要放掉了嗎？"],["林次長全能：也不是這樣子，我想經濟部本身考量的面向很多。"],["葛委員如鈞：是這樣也是那樣啦！沒有關係，我們再來看下一張，經濟部部長郭智輝部長上任前就說：核能是乾淨的能源，上任以後會儘速盤點政策，解決問題。我們又要昏啦！又要來擁抱核能啦！同時身兼政委的國科會委員吳誠文主委上週在這個地方備詢的時候說，他沒有反核神主牌，未來如果發展出潔淨、安全的核能，在這個前提下，他認同核能。這是原話，他表達自己的立場。我再次請問主委跟次長，吳主委沒有反核神主牌，你們兩位有沒有反核神主牌？"],["陳主任委員東陽：核安會是獨立的機關，我當然不能有任何的立場。"],["葛委員如鈞：不能有任何神主牌，所以就是薛丁格的……"],["陳主任委員東陽：沒有任何的立場，反核或擁核，我都不能有任何的立場。"],["葛委員如鈞：好，沒有關係，我們待會問。次長呢？"],["林次長全能：我們是執行機關，執行機關就依照相關的規定去執行。"],["葛委員如鈞：好，沒有關係。我們再來看，民進黨大佬許信良先生也說：不要讓廿世紀的民進黨思維，來約束廿一世紀的民進黨政府。應該使用核電，這四年不改，將來也會改，因為減碳是世界性的運動。國發會副主委也說：核能政策要尋求全民共識；環境部長彭啓明說：國際沒有說一定要或一定不要，建議儘快凝聚共識。但事實上2018年以核養綠的公投結果就已經是一種全民共識，我們到底還要多少的共識，你們才願意放下神主牌說，我們就是要延役，我們需要來友善面對核能，來承認它是我們接下來必須要存在的一種非常有效的方法？","同時，在你們還不願意承認、不願意面對核能的時候，我們每天每分每秒大家都在吸入大量的空污，童子賢董事長也提醒，煤炭發電現在占了三十幾%，排放的煙恐怕帶來數千萬人嚴重的肺病或肺癌致死，因為是慢性的。但是同樣在這個時間點，上週四的行政院會後記者會，行政院發言人又說：再次強調政府不會放棄追求非核家園。我們又看到這個東西又被推出去了，今天我們拿到這禮拜五卓榮泰院長要來的施政報告，我們翻開一看，很抱歉，又沒有非核家園了！能源政策隻字未提非核家園神主牌，看起來好像又要轉彎了，結果呢？我們真的是想要再講，你們接下來又要再講綠能怎麼樣，綠能不是不好，但是我們也必須要講，不要認為綠能是無害的，我們可能是先享受後付款。次長，你認同這個說法嗎？對於我們之後要付款的，你覺得我們存好了嗎？"],["林次長全能：我想臺灣是個多元的社會，每一位都有他不同的看法跟意見，能源的政策發展我們也看到這樣的反應，就是各項能源都有不同的優劣點，這個部分是大家都知道的。"],["葛委員如鈞：但是快要沒有電就是事實，好不好？"],["林次長全能：我強調我們一定會將供電作為重要任務……"],["葛委員如鈞：這種薛丁格的狀態不能存在太久。"],["林次長全能：我們絕對不會發生缺電的狀況。"],["葛委員如鈞：民進黨政府從蔡英文總統到賴清德總統，神主牌是一種傳承，不敢隨便放下，有需要的時候就拿起來，沒有需要的時候就叫別人來碰觸一下，我大膽預測接下來的劇情走向，民進黨迫於在野黨的壓力，為了滿足產業用電的需求，無奈情勢之下只好跟非核家園神主牌還有擁護者們說抱歉。民進黨真的不需要這樣，一下子要一下子不要，一下子綠一下子不綠，一下子擁核一下子非核，想要就大聲說出來，你如果真的有神主牌，你要握著你就握好，你不要又拿出來說，拜託你把它拿走。","所以我現在是想要做這件事，我幫你們做了一個神主牌，現在給你們一個機會，神主牌在這裡，你們有沒有人要？願意接過去這個神主牌的，請舉手？我可以給你三秒鐘。好，很好！這就是我們的態度，到底是要還是不要？有人說一定要反核，一定要非核，然後一下又說，一定要綠能，我們臺灣就已經快要沒有電了，核能的6%接下來要剩下3%，然後一年又有增長率的AI要增加用6%，但是我們說安不安全？我現在就直接把它丟到旁邊，我幫你們丟啦！本席認為民進黨政府最終一定會走上核電廠延役的這條路，我再一次問你們同不同意？我們已經通過了國會改革五法，接下來如果你們真的有開過會，已經要丟掉神主牌了，我們已經要友善面對核電了，其他部會首長都已經講了，次長，你願不願意承認──我們其實就是要往核電延役這條路了，你願不願意承認？雖然我們總統還沒公告，還有什麼覆議，但是我們先練習一下好不好？一個誠懇的……"],["林次長全能：委員，我剛剛已經說明得很清楚了，我們經濟部是執行單位，相關的規定就是我們依據的一個很重要的……"],["葛委員如鈞：部長沒有放棄喔，他擁抱喔！您會跟隨嗎？他擁抱，您跟隨嗎？"],["林次長全能：我想我不是部長本人，基本上委員也不是部長本人，經濟部很重要的一個一致性的處理做法就是依據規範來處理……"],["葛委員如鈞：好，我打斷您，就現在、right this moment，你沒有立場嘛！核安會主委總有立場了吧？"],["陳主任委員東陽：獨立安全管制機關不應該有立場。"],["葛委員如鈞：不應該有立場嗎？我們來唸一下你們官方網站上面的16個字「輻安核安，民眾心安；日新又新，專業創新」，你們應該要告訴我們核能是安全的，現在就需要這樣的東西，你應該要來告訴我們，核安會要負責讓核能安全，結果你剛剛的報告，有這麼多人要延役，結果你說的是什麼？你說核安會尊重大院委員提案，核安要能夠確保。核安要能夠確保是你的責任，你怎麼會來跟這些提案委員說核安要能夠確保呢？好，沒有關係，我們今天有了新的國會、新的氣象，我也希望未來我們有更良善的交流，未來有什麼樣的政策，我們就大膽地說出來，大家一起來準備。","今天核安會的報告裡提到，國際上近期重要的核能會議有結論，在COP28期間，美國與21個國家共同發起2050年以前致力將核電裝置容量提升為三倍的聯合倡議，這裡面有很多創新的核電技術。2024年3月的「核能高峰會」宣示支持利用核能協助實現全球碳中和目標，與會領袖也共同發表聲明，承諾部署先進反應器，確保最高程度的安全和保障；多位與會的領導人亦表明，要讓現有核反應器延長運轉。這是你們今天的核安會報告，結果我們在這裡問，你們既不接神主牌，也不說接下來我們的核電要不要延役，在這邊就像是薛丁格的貓，盒子就是死不打開，到底活、到底死；到底安全、到底不安全；到底要核電、不要核電，都不願意講！沒有關係，我們還有時間，但是時間是真的滴滴答答在倒數了，接下來不管你們是要除役、運轉，還是延役，我期待你們就像報告裡所講的，為民眾的安全把關。","其實我有做好投影片，今天本來希望可以打開這個薛丁格的盒子，告訴我們到底你們是站在什麼樣的態度，你們是同意全民的共識以核養綠嗎？你們是追求經濟發展嗎？神主牌要退場嗎？要把它丟掉嗎？核電廠要延役嗎？剛剛還是很感謝次長，你有說追求經濟發展優先，我覺得這個很好，至少這個盒子打開了一滴滴。然後我剛剛想說你們可以大膽的說：我就是要非核家園、我要持續下去、我一丁點都不退縮！但抱歉，你們也不願意走這個路線，所以我已經幫你們做好了今天的結論，那就是以上皆非，盒子還是沒有打開，但接下來這件事情，真的要拜託你們不要再這樣了，因為我們的電力已經快要不夠了，就像你剛剛提到的，我們還要再去買更多的電，但經費在哪裡？我們要再去種更多的綠電，但作法是什麼？我們要有更多的火力發電廠，但要蓋在哪裡？綜整我們剛才的討論，我想經濟部和核安會今天是沒有辦法肯定地回答這些問題。我投影片直接做好了，時空旅人，本來應該有的薛丁格的主委，今天可能要再加上薛丁格次長！本席還是呼籲民進黨政府、執政黨要誠實面對，整個部會要有一致的作法跟說法。","最後，我引述童子賢董事長所說的，電力即國力，穩定供電、供電品質、淨零碳排這幾個條件加總起來，就是我們的國力，請民進黨政府、執政黨真實面對民眾與產業的需求，真實面對自己的內心，明知道延役勢在必行，就勇敢說出來，勇敢把法案提出來！謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝兩位，謝謝葛如鈞委員。","接下來我們請葉元之委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":396,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-14","speakers":["柯志恩","洪孟楷","葛如鈞","葉元之","洪申翰","陳秀寳","萬美玲","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","林宜瑾","張雅琳","范雲","羅廷瑋","張嘉郡","陳培瑜","張智倫","林倩綺","羅智強","吳春城","楊瓊瓔","翁曉玲"],"page_start":343,"meetingDate":["2024-05-29"],"gazette_id":"1135201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135201_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽及經濟部次長列席就「展望全球核能發電趨勢，我國核電廠\n延役推動現況暨發展新型核能成為永續能源之規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1135201_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"153183","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153183","tool":"pyannote","id":"153183-pyannote"},"job_id":"j8l6zWLkUpuxXegl","queued_at":"2024-05-30 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0.999}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 300.925, \"end\": 300.945, \"score\": 0.012}]}, {\"start\": 302.647, \"end\": 315.885, \"text\": \"今天我們拿到了這個施政報告這個禮拜五卓榮泰院長要來的施政報告我們翻開一看很抱歉又沒有非核家園了能源政策資質未提非核家園省主牌看起來好像又要轉彎了\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 302.647, \"end\": 302.887, \"score\": 0.596}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 302.887, \"end\": 303.388, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 303.388, \"end\": 303.588, \"score\": 0.664}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"拿\", \"start\": 303.588, \"end\": 303.808, \"score\": 0.79}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 303.808, \"end\": 303.949, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 303.949, \"end\": 304.369, \"score\": 0.693}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"施\", \"start\": 304.369, \"end\": 304.509, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 304.509, \"end\": 304.91, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 304.91, \"end\": 305.631, \"score\": 0.729}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": 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曖 昧 賴 總 統 最 屬 意 的 過 去 曾 經 討 論 過 的 行 政 院 長 人 選\n\n5\n00:01:27,947 --> 00:01:36,354\n童 子 賢 先 生 曾 經 說 : 「 地 球 暖 化 才 是 人 類 公 敵 , 何 能 不 是 ? 」 次 長 、 主 委 , 你 們 兩 位 認 同 這 個 說 法 嗎 ?\n\n6\n00:01:41,496 --> 00:01:41,956\n接 下 來 我 們 還 提 到 這 個 更 多 的 這 種 小 型 核 電 創 新 的 核 電\n\n7\n00:02:08,511 --> 00:02:30,716\n還 不 只 是 童 先 生 ： 卓 院 長 也 說 政 府 會 打 造 更 穩 定 的 經 濟 發 展 環 境 繼 續 發 展 綠 能 但 追 求 非 核 家 園 是 永 不 可 放 棄 的 目 標 有 人 說 可 以 考 慮 核 電 有 人 接 著 又 說 一 定 要 非 核 家 園 我 想 請 教 一 下 次 長 我 們 現 在 到 底 是 要 先 追 求 穩 定 經 濟 發 展 還 是 先 追 求 非 核 家 園 先 哪 一 個\n\n8\n00:02:33,322 --> 00:02:57,408\n我 想 站 在 經 濟 部 的 很 重 要 的 任 務 是 要 追 求 我 們 的 經 濟 的 穩 定 發 展 先 追 求 穩 定 發 展 所 以 非 核 家 園 可 能 可 以 放 在 旁 邊 了 嗎 也 不 是 這 樣 我 想 經 濟 部 本 身 考 量 的 那 個 面 向 很 多 好 就 是 是 這 樣 也 是 那 樣 沒 有 關 係 我 們 再 來 看 下 一 張 這 個 經 濟 部 的 部 長 郭 志 威 部 長 上 任 前 就 說 核 能 是 乾 淨 的 能 源 上 任 以 後 會 盡 速 盤 點 政 策 解 決 問 題 我 們 又 要 昏 了\n\n9\n00:02:59,369 --> 00:03:22,928\n又 要 來 擁 抱 核 能 那 同 時 呢 身 兼 政 委 的 國 會 委 員 吳 承 文 主 委 上 週 是 在 這 個 地 方 備 詢 的 時 候 他 說 他 沒 有 反 核 神 主 牌 未 來 如 果 發 展 出 潔 淨 安 全 的 核 能 在 這 個 前 提 下 他 認 同 核 能 這 是 原 話 表 達 他 表 達 自 己 立 場 我 再 次 請 問 主 委 跟 次 長 吳 主 委 沒 有 反 核 神 主 牌 你 們 兩 位 有 沒 有 反 核 神 主 牌\n\n10\n00:03:24,804 --> 00:03:24,824\n市 長\n\n11\n00:03:38,885 --> 00:03:56,681\n我 們 是 執 行 機 關 , 執 行 機 關 就 依 照 相 關 的 規 定 去 執 行 這 樣 子 沒 有 關 係 , 我 們 再 來 看 民 進 黨 大 佬 許 信 良 先 生 也 說 不 要 讓 2 0 世 紀 的 民 進 黨 思 維 來 約 束 2 1 世 紀 的 民 進 黨 政 府 應 該 使 用 核 電 這 4 年 不 改 將 來 也 會 改 因 為 減 碳 是 世 界 性 的 運 動\n\n12\n00:03:59,284 --> 00:04:19,347\n國 發 會 主 委 副 主 委 也 說 核 能 政 策 要 尋 求 全 民 共 識 環 境 部 長 彭 啟 明 說 國 際 沒 有 說 一 定 要 或 一 定 不 要 建 議 盡 快 凝 聚 共 識 但 事 實 上 2 0 1 8 年 以 核 養 綠 的 公 投 結 果 就 已 經 是 一 種 全 民 共 識 了 我 們 到 底 還 要 多 少 的 共 識 你 們 才 願 意 放 下 這 個 神 主 牌\n\n13\n00:04:19,727 --> 00:04:22,330\n說 我 們 就 是 要 演 繹 我 們 需 要 來 友 善 面 對 核 能 來 承 認 它 是 我 們 接 下 來 必 須 要 存 在 的 一 種 非 常 有 效 的 方 法 同 時 在 你 們 還 不 願 意 承 認 不 願 意 面 對 這 個 核 能 的 時 候 我 們 每 天 每 分 每 秒\n\n14\n00:04:37,705 --> 00:05:00,945\n大 家 都 在 吸 入 大 量 的 空 汙 同 時 前 董 事 長 也 提 醒 煤 炭 發 電 現 在 佔 了 3 0 幾 % 排 放 的 煙 恐 怕 帶 來 數 千 萬 人 嚴 重 的 肺 病 或 肺 癌 致 死 因 為 是 慢 性 的 但 是 同 樣 在 這 個 時 間 點 上 周 四 的 行 政 院 會 和 記 者 會 行 政 院 發 言 人 又 說 再 次 強 調 政 府 不 會 放 棄 追 求 非 核 家 園 我 們 又 看 到 這 個 東 西 又 被 推 出 去 了\n\n15\n00:05:02,647 --> 00:05:15,885\n今 天 我 們 拿 到 了 這 個 施 政 報 告 這 個 禮 拜 五 卓 榮 泰 院 長 要 來 的 施 政 報 告 我 們 翻 開 一 看 很 抱 歉 又 沒 有 非 核 家 園 了 能 源 政 策 資 質 未 提 非 核 家 園 省 主 牌 看 起 來 好 像 又 要 轉 彎 了\n\n16\n00:05:18,099 --> 00:05:33,715\n結 果 呢 我 們 真 的 是 想 要 來 講 你 們 接 下 來 又 要 來 講 說 綠 能 啊 綠 能 啊 怎 麼 樣 綠 能 不 是 不 好 但 是 我 們 也 要 必 須 要 講 綠 能 本 身 不 要 認 為 它 是 無 害 的 我 們 可 能 是 先 享 受 後 付 款 啊 次 長 你 認 同 這 個 說 法 嗎 你 覺 得 我 們 這 個 之 後 要 付 款 我 們 存 好 了 嗎\n\n17\n00:05:38,809 --> 00:06:00,187\n我 想 台 灣 是 一 個 多 元 的 社 會 每 一 位 都 有 他 不 同 的 看 法 跟 意 見 那 能 源 的 政 策 發 展 我 們 也 看 到 這 樣 的 一 個 反 應 就 是 說 各 項 能 源 都 有 不 同 的 一 個 優 劣 點 我 想 這 個 部 分 是 大 家 都 是 知 道 的 但 是 快 要 沒 有 電 就 是 事 實 好 不 好 我 想 我 們 在 這 種 薛 丁 格 的 狀 態 不 能 存 在 太 久\n\n18\n00:06:01,808 --> 00:06:29,941\n民 進 黨 政 府 從 蔡 英 文 總 統 到 賴 清 德 總 統 神 主 牌 是 一 種 傳 承 不 敢 隨 便 放 下 有 需 要 的 時 候 就 拿 起 來 沒 有 需 要 的 時 候 就 叫 別 人 說 你 來 碰 觸 一 下 我 大 膽 預 設 接 下 來 的 劇 情 走 向 民 進 黨 迫 於 在 野 黨 的 壓 力 為 了 滿 足 產 業 用 電 的 需 求 無 奈 情 勢 只 好 跟 非 核 家 園 神 主 牌 還 有 擁 護 者 們 說 抱 歉 民 進 黨 真 的 不 需 要 這 樣 一 下 要 一 下 不 要 一 下 是 綠 一 下 不 綠 一 下 是 永 核 一 下 是 非 核 想 要 就 大 聲 說 出 來\n\n19\n00:06:31,001 --> 00:06:49,605\n你 如 果 真 的 有 神 主 牌 你 要 握 著 你 就 握 好 你 不 要 又 拿 出 來 說 拜 託 你 把 它 拿 走 所 以 我 現 在 是 想 要 做 這 件 事 我 幫 你 們 做 了 一 個 神 主 牌 神 主 牌 現 在 給 你 們 一 個 機 會 神 主 牌 在 這 裡 你 們 有 沒 有 人 要 願 意 接 過 去 這 個 神 主 牌 的 可 不 可 以 願 意 請 舉 手 我 可 以 給 你 3 秒 鐘\n\n20\n00:06:56,647 --> 00:07:20,080\n好 很 好 這 就 是 我 們 的 態 度 這 就 是 我 們 的 態 度 到 底 是 要 還 是 不 要 有 人 說 一 定 要 反 核 一 定 要 非 核 然 後 一 下 又 說 一 定 要 綠 能 我 們 台 灣 就 快 要 已 經 沒 有 電 了 核 能 的 6 % 接 下 來 要 剩 下 3 % 然 後 呢 一 年 又 有 增 長 率 的 A I 又 要 增 加 用 6 % 但 是 呢 我 們 說 安 不 安 全 說 我 現 在 就 直 接 把 它 丟 到 旁 邊 了 我 幫 你 們 丟 啦\n\n21\n00:07:22,521 --> 00:07:42,554\n我 想 本 席 認 為 民 進 黨 政 府 最 終 一 定 會 走 上 核 電 廠 延 役 的 這 條 路 我 再 次 問 你 們 同 不 同 意 我 們 已 經 通 過 了 國 會 改 革 武 法 我 們 接 下 來 真 的 是 你 們 如 果 有 開 過 會 已 經 要 丟 掉 神 主 牌 了 我 們 已 經 要 友 善 面 對 核 電 了 其 他 部 會 首 長 都 已 經 講 了\n\n22\n00:07:44,150 --> 00:08:04,699\n市 長 您 願 不 願 意 承 認 我 們 其 實 就 是 要 往 核 電 延 役 這 條 路 了 願 不 願 意 承 認 雖 然 我 們 總 統 還 沒 公 告 啦 還 有 什 麼 復 議 啦 但 是 我 們 先 練 習 一 下 好 不 好 一 個 誠 懇 的 我 剛 剛 已 經 說 明 很 清 楚 了 我 們 經 濟 部 是 執 行 單 位 相 關 的 規 定 就 是 我 們 依 據 的 一 個 很 重 要 的 那 部 長 沒 有 放 棄 喔 他 擁 抱 喔 那 您 會 跟 隨 嗎 他 擁 抱 您 跟 隨 嗎\n\n23\n00:08:07,441 --> 00:08:22,538\n呃 我 想 我 我 不 是 我 們 部 長 本 人 基 本 上 委 員 也 不 是 部 長 本 人 那 我 們 經 濟 部 一 個 很 重 要 的 一 個 這 個 處 理 的 一 致 的 處 理 的 好 打 斷 您 啦 就 現 在 在 這 一 刻 你 沒 有 立 場 嘛 那 核 安 會 主 委 總 有 立 場 了 吧\n\n24\n00:08:24,420 --> 00:08:38,329\n獨 立 安 全 管 制 機 關 不 應 該 有 立 場 不 應 該 有 立 場 嗎 我 們 來 念 一 下 你 們 的 官 方 網 站 上 面 的 1 6 個 字 核 安 福 安 核 安 民 眾 心 安 日 新 又 新 專 業 創 新 你 們 應 該 要 告 訴 我 們 核 能 是 安 全 的 現 在 就 需 要 這 樣 的 東 西 你 應 該 要 來 告 訴 我 們 核 安 會 要 來 負 責 讓 核 能 安 全 結 果 你 剛 剛 的 報 告 有 這 麼 多 人 要 研 議 結 果 你 說 的 是 什 麼 勒\n\n25\n00:08:52,518 --> 00:09:05,854\n核 安 會 尊 重 大 院 委 員 提 案 核 能 要 確 保 核 安 要 能 夠 確 保 核 安 要 能 夠 確 保 是 你 的 責 任 你 怎 麼 會 來 跟 這 些 提 案 的 委 員 講 說 你 要 核 安 要 能 夠 確 保 呢\n\n26\n00:09:06,892 --> 00:09:24,210\n好 沒 有 關 係 我 想 接 下 來 我 們 今 天 有 了 新 的 國 會 新 的 氣 象 我 也 希 望 未 來 我 們 有 更 良 善 的 交 流 我 們 未 來 有 什 麼 樣 的 政 策 我 們 就 大 膽 的 說 出 來 大 家 一 起 來 準 備 今 天 國 安 會 的 報 告 裡 面 有 提 到 國 際 上 近 期 重 要 的 核 能 會 議 有 結 論\n\n27\n00:09:25,131 --> 00:09:27,633\n在 C O P 2 8 期 間 美 國 與 2 1 個 國 家 共 同 發 起 2 0 5 0 年 前 致 力 將 核 電 裝 置 的 容 量 提 升 為 3 倍 的 聯 合 倡 議 這 裡 面 有 很 多 的 創 新 的 核 電 技 術 2 0 2 4 年 3 月 的 核 能 高 峰 會\n\n28\n00:09:43,365 --> 00:10:01,280\n宣 誓 指 示 利 用 核 能 協 助 實 現 全 球 碳 中 和 的 目 標 很 多 的 領 袖 也 共 同 發 表 聲 明 部 署 先 進 的 反 應 器 確 保 最 高 程 度 的 安 全 和 保 障 多 位 與 會 領 導 人 表 明 要 讓 現 有 核 反 應 器 延 長 運 轉 這 是 你 們 今 天 的 核 安 會 報 告 結 果 我 們 在 這 裡 問\n\n29\n00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:18,836\n在 這 邊 就 像 一 個 薛 丁 格 的 貓 核 子 就 是 死 不 打 開 到 底 活 到 底 死 到 底 安 全 到 底 不 安 全 到 底 要 核 電 不 要 核 電 都 不 願 意 講\n\n30\n00:10:20,305 --> 00:10:34,555\n沒 有 關 係 我 們 還 有 時 間 但 是 這 個 時 間 真 的 滴 滴 答 答 的 在 倒 數 我 想 接 下 來 不 管 你 們 是 要 除 役 還 是 運 轉 還 是 延 役 我 也 期 待 你 們 像 報 告 裡 面 所 講 的 為 民 眾 的 安 全 把 關\n\n31\n00:10:36,044 --> 00:10:50,651\n我 做 好 了 投 影 片 我 今 天 本 來 是 希 望 可 以 打 開 這 個 薛 丁 格 的 盒 子 告 訴 我 們 到 底 你 們 是 站 在 什 麼 樣 的 態 度 你 們 是 同 意 全 民 的 共 識 以 核 養 綠 嗎 ? 你 也 是 追 求 經 濟 發 展 嗎 ? 神 主 牌 要 退 場 嗎 ? 叫 我 把 它 丟 掉 嗎 ? 核 電 廠 要 延 役 嗎 ? 剛 剛 還 是 很 感 謝 次 長 您 有 說 追 求 經 濟 發 展 優 先 我 覺 得 這 個 很 好\n\n32\n00:11:00,515 --> 00:11:15,544\n至 少 這 個 盒 子 開 了 一 滴 滴 然 後 呢 我 剛 剛 想 說 你 們 就 大 膽 的 說 我 就 是 要 飛 和 家 園 我 持 續 下 去 我 一 點 點 都 不 退 縮 抱 歉 你 們 也 不 願 意 走 這 個 路 線 所 以 我 已 經 幫 你 們 做 好 了 今 天 的 結 論 以 上 皆 非 啦\n\n33\n00:11:16,224 --> 00:11:19,667\n您 剛 剛 所 提 到 的 我 還 要 再 去 買 更 多 的 電 我 們 的 經 費 在 哪 裡 我 要 再 去 種 更 多 的 綠 電 那 我 們 的 做 法 是 什 麼 我 們 要 有 更 多 的 火 力 發 電 廠 我 們 要 蓋 在 哪 裡\n\n34\n00:11:37,279 --> 00:11:56,939\n重 整 我 們 剛 才 的 討 論 我 想 經 濟 部 安 安 會 今 天 都 沒 有 辦 法 很 肯 定 的 回 答 這 些 問 題 我 投 影 片 直 接 就 做 好 了 時 空 旅 人 本 來 應 該 有 的 薛 丁 格 的 主 委 今 天 可 能 再 加 上 薛 丁 格 次 長 本 席 還 是 呼 籲 民 進 黨 政 府 執 政 黨 要 誠 實 面 對 整 個 部 會 要 一 致 的 做 法 跟 說 法\n\n35\n00:11:57,299 --> 00:12:17,745\n最 後 引 述 童 子 賢 董 事 長 所 說 的 電 力 及 國 力 穩 定 供 電 供 電 品 質 淨 零 碳 排 這 幾 個 條 件 加 總 起 來 就 是 我 們 的 國 力 請 民 進 黨 政 府 執 政 黨 真 實 面 對 民 眾 與 產 業 的 需 求 真 實 面 對 自 己 的 內 心 明 知 道 延 逸 勢 在 必 行 就 勇 敢 說 出 來 勇 敢 把 法 案 提 出 來 謝 謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n269\t750\t請葛如鈞委員\n22194\t39130\t各位委員長主委長也恭喜您順利留任李次長今天很難得經濟部來到教育委員會您今天站在這裡跟我們這個核安會的主委我相信您應該是認同核能安全的經濟部的書面報告清楚的呈現\n40091\t57760\t接下來的國際能源署的報告裡面有說全球核能的發電占比會先上升再下降2030可能從8%到10%到2050年以後才會再次下降這是全球的趨勢台灣可能沒有辦法獨善其身剛剛提到了這個洪孟凱委員提到\n58480\t79525\t我們一年很可能會增加3%但接下來關機又少3%所以我想這真的是一個沒有辦法忽視的問題今天是賴政府上台的第10天能源政策關乎我們的每一天的生活但是執政黨的政府對於核能的態度我自己覺得有點友達以上戀人未滿又想報又想不報又想簽又想不簽猶豫不決兩者關係非常曖昧賴總統最屬意的過去曾經討論過的行政院長人選\n87947\t96354\t童子賢先生曾經說:「地球暖化才是人類公敵,何能不是?」次長、主委,你們兩位認同這個說法嗎?\n101496\t101956\t接下來我們還提到這個更多的這種小型核電創新的核電\n128511\t150716\t還不只是童先生：卓院長也說政府會打造更穩定的經濟發展環境繼續發展綠能但追求非核家園是永不可放棄的目標有人說可以考慮核電有人接著又說一定要非核家園我想請教一下次長我們現在到底是要先追求穩定經濟發展還是先追求非核家園先哪一個\n153322\t177408\t我想站在經濟部的很重要的任務是要追求我們的經濟的穩定發展先追求穩定發展所以非核家園可能可以放在旁邊了嗎也不是這樣我想經濟部本身考量的那個面向很多好就是是這樣也是那樣沒有關係我們再來看下一張這個經濟部的部長郭志威部長上任前就說核能是乾淨的能源上任以後會盡速盤點政策解決問題我們又要昏了\n179369\t202928\t又要來擁抱核能那同時呢身兼政委的國會委員吳承文主委上週是在這個地方備詢的時候他說他沒有反核神主牌未來如果發展出潔淨安全的核能在這個前提下他認同核能這是原話表達他表達自己立場我再次請問主委跟次長吳主委沒有反核神主牌你們兩位有沒有反核神主牌\n204804\t204824\t市長\n218885\t236681\t我們是執行機關,執行機關就依照相關的規定去執行這樣子沒有關係,我們再來看民進黨大佬許信良先生也說不要讓20世紀的民進黨思維來約束21世紀的民進黨政府應該使用核電這4年不改將來也會改因為減碳是世界性的運動\n239284\t259347\t國發會主委副主委也說核能政策要尋求全民共識環境部長彭啟明說國際沒有說一定要或一定不要建議盡快凝聚共識但事實上2018年以核養綠的公投結果就已經是一種全民共識了我們到底還要多少的共識你們才願意放下這個神主牌\n259727\t262330\t說我們就是要演繹我們需要來友善面對核能來承認它是我們接下來必須要存在的一種非常有效的方法同時在你們還不願意承認不願意面對這個核能的時候我們每天每分每秒\n277705\t300945\t大家都在吸入大量的空汙同時前董事長也提醒煤炭發電現在佔了30幾%排放的煙恐怕帶來數千萬人嚴重的肺病或肺癌致死因為是慢性的但是同樣在這個時間點上周四的行政院會和記者會行政院發言人又說再次強調政府不會放棄追求非核家園我們又看到這個東西又被推出去了\n302647\t315885\t今天我們拿到了這個施政報告這個禮拜五卓榮泰院長要來的施政報告我們翻開一看很抱歉又沒有非核家園了能源政策資質未提非核家園省主牌看起來好像又要轉彎了\n318099\t333715\t結果呢我們真的是想要來講你們接下來又要來講說綠能啊綠能啊怎麼樣綠能不是不好但是我們也要必須要講綠能本身不要認為它是無害的我們可能是先享受後付款啊次長你認同這個說法嗎你覺得我們這個之後要付款我們存好了嗎\n338809\t360187\t我想台灣是一個多元的社會每一位都有他不同的看法跟意見那能源的政策發展我們也看到這樣的一個反應就是說各項能源都有不同的一個優劣點我想這個部分是大家都是知道的但是快要沒有電就是事實好不好我想我們在這種薛丁格的狀態不能存在太久\n361808\t389941\t民進黨政府從蔡英文總統到賴清德總統神主牌是一種傳承不敢隨便放下有需要的時候就拿起來沒有需要的時候就叫別人說你來碰觸一下我大膽預設接下來的劇情走向民進黨迫於在野黨的壓力為了滿足產業用電的需求無奈情勢只好跟非核家園神主牌還有擁護者們說抱歉民進黨真的不需要這樣一下要一下不要一下是綠一下不綠一下是永核一下是非核想要就大聲說出來\n391001\t409605\t你如果真的有神主牌你要握著你就握好你不要又拿出來說拜託你把它拿走所以我現在是想要做這件事我幫你們做了一個神主牌神主牌現在給你們一個機會神主牌在這裡你們有沒有人要願意接過去這個神主牌的可不可以願意請舉手我可以給你3秒鐘\n416647\t440080\t好很好 這就是我們的態度這就是我們的態度到底是要還是不要有人說一定要反核一定要非核然後一下又說一定要綠能我們台灣就快要已經沒有電了核能的6%接下來要剩下3%然後呢一年又有增長率的AI又要增加用6%但是呢我們說安不安全說我現在就直接把它丟到旁邊了我幫你們丟啦\n442521\t462554\t我想本席認為民進黨政府最終一定會走上核電廠延役的這條路我再次問你們同不同意我們已經通過了國會改革武法我們接下來真的是你們如果有開過會已經要丟掉神主牌了我們已經要友善面對核電了其他部會首長都已經講了\n464150\t484699\t市長您願不願意承認我們其實就是要往核電延役這條路了願不願意承認雖然我們總統還沒公告啦還有什麼復議啦但是我們先練習一下好不好一個誠懇的我剛剛已經說明很清楚了我們經濟部是執行單位相關的規定就是我們依據的一個很重要的那部長沒有放棄喔他擁抱喔那您會跟隨嗎他擁抱您跟隨嗎\n487441\t502538\t呃 我想我 我不是我們部長本人基本上委員也不是部長本人那我們經濟部一個很重要的一個這個處理的一致的處理的好打斷您啦就現在在這一刻你沒有立場嘛那核安會主委總有立場了吧\n504420\t518329\t獨立安全管制機關不應該有立場不應該有立場嗎我們來念一下你們的官方網站上面的16個字核安福安核安民眾心安日新又新專業創新你們應該要告訴我們核能是安全的現在就需要這樣的東西你應該要來告訴我們核安會要來負責讓核能安全結果你剛剛的報告有這麼多人要研議結果你說的是什麼勒\n532518\t545854\t核安會尊重大院委員提案核能要確保核安要能夠確保核安要能夠確保是你的責任你怎麼會來跟這些提案的委員講說你要核安要能夠確保呢\n546892\t564210\t好沒有關係我想接下來我們今天有了新的國會新的氣象我也希望未來我們有更良善的交流我們未來有什麼樣的政策我們就大膽的說出來大家一起來準備今天國安會的報告裡面有提到國際上近期重要的核能會議有結論\n565131\t567633\t在COP28期間美國與21個國家共同發起2050年前致力將核電裝置的容量提升為3倍的聯合倡議這裡面有很多的創新的核電技術2024年3月的核能高峰會\n583365\t601280\t宣誓指示利用核能協助實現全球碳中和的目標很多的領袖也共同發表聲明部署先進的反應器確保最高程度的安全和保障多位與會領導人表明要讓現有核反應器延長運轉這是你們今天的核安會報告結果我們在這裡問\n607840\t618836\t在這邊就像一個薛丁格的貓核子就是死不打開到底活到底死到底安全到底不安全到底要核電不要核電都不願意講\n620305\t634555\t沒有關係我們還有時間但是這個時間真的滴滴答答的在倒數我想接下來不管你們是要除役還是運轉還是延役我也期待你們像報告裡面所講的為民眾的安全把關\n636044\t650651\t我做好了投影片我今天本來是希望可以打開這個薛丁格的盒子告訴我們到底你們是站在什麼樣的態度你們是同意全民的共識以核養綠嗎?你也是追求經濟發展嗎?神主牌要退場嗎?叫我把它丟掉嗎?核電廠要延役嗎?剛剛還是很感謝次長您有說追求經濟發展優先我覺得這個很好\n660515\t675544\t至少這個盒子開了一滴滴然後呢我剛剛想說你們就大膽的說我就是要飛和家園我持續下去我一點點都不退縮抱歉你們也不願意走這個路線所以我已經幫你們做好了今天的結論以上皆非啦\n676224\t679667\t您剛剛所提到的我還要再去買更多的電我們的經費在哪裡我要再去種更多的綠電那我們的做法是什麼我們要有更多的火力發電廠我們要蓋在哪裡\n697279\t716939\t重整我們剛才的討論我想經濟部安安會今天都沒有辦法很肯定的回答這些問題我投影片直接就做好了時空旅人本來應該有的薛丁格的主委今天可能再加上薛丁格次長本席還是呼籲民進黨政府執政黨要誠實面對整個部會要一致的做法跟說法\n717299\t737745\t最後引述童子賢董事長所說的電力及國力穩定供電供電品質淨零碳排這幾個條件加總起來就是我們的國力請民進黨政府執政黨真實面對民眾與產業的需求真實面對自己的內心明知道延逸勢在必行就勇敢說出來勇敢把法案提出來謝謝\n","txt":"請葛如鈞委員\n各位委員長主委長也恭喜您順利留任李次長今天很難得經濟部來到教育委員會您今天站在這裡跟我們這個核安會的主委我相信您應該是認同核能安全的經濟部的書面報告清楚的呈現\n接下來的國際能源署的報告裡面有說全球核能的發電占比會先上升再下降2030可能從8%到10%到2050年以後才會再次下降這是全球的趨勢台灣可能沒有辦法獨善其身剛剛提到了這個洪孟凱委員提到\n我們一年很可能會增加3%但接下來關機又少3%所以我想這真的是一個沒有辦法忽視的問題今天是賴政府上台的第10天能源政策關乎我們的每一天的生活但是執政黨的政府對於核能的態度我自己覺得有點友達以上戀人未滿又想報又想不報又想簽又想不簽猶豫不決兩者關係非常曖昧賴總統最屬意的過去曾經討論過的行政院長人選\n童子賢先生曾經說:「地球暖化才是人類公敵,何能不是?」次長、主委,你們兩位認同這個說法嗎?\n接下來我們還提到這個更多的這種小型核電創新的核電\n還不只是童先生：卓院長也說政府會打造更穩定的經濟發展環境繼續發展綠能但追求非核家園是永不可放棄的目標有人說可以考慮核電有人接著又說一定要非核家園我想請教一下次長我們現在到底是要先追求穩定經濟發展還是先追求非核家園先哪一個\n我想站在經濟部的很重要的任務是要追求我們的經濟的穩定發展先追求穩定發展所以非核家園可能可以放在旁邊了嗎也不是這樣我想經濟部本身考量的那個面向很多好就是是這樣也是那樣沒有關係我們再來看下一張這個經濟部的部長郭志威部長上任前就說核能是乾淨的能源上任以後會盡速盤點政策解決問題我們又要昏了\n又要來擁抱核能那同時呢身兼政委的國會委員吳承文主委上週是在這個地方備詢的時候他說他沒有反核神主牌未來如果發展出潔淨安全的核能在這個前提下他認同核能這是原話表達他表達自己立場我再次請問主委跟次長吳主委沒有反核神主牌你們兩位有沒有反核神主牌\n市長\n我們是執行機關,執行機關就依照相關的規定去執行這樣子沒有關係,我們再來看民進黨大佬許信良先生也說不要讓20世紀的民進黨思維來約束21世紀的民進黨政府應該使用核電這4年不改將來也會改因為減碳是世界性的運動\n國發會主委副主委也說核能政策要尋求全民共識環境部長彭啟明說國際沒有說一定要或一定不要建議盡快凝聚共識但事實上2018年以核養綠的公投結果就已經是一種全民共識了我們到底還要多少的共識你們才願意放下這個神主牌\n說我們就是要演繹我們需要來友善面對核能來承認它是我們接下來必須要存在的一種非常有效的方法同時在你們還不願意承認不願意面對這個核能的時候我們每天每分每秒\n大家都在吸入大量的空汙同時前董事長也提醒煤炭發電現在佔了30幾%排放的煙恐怕帶來數千萬人嚴重的肺病或肺癌致死因為是慢性的但是同樣在這個時間點上周四的行政院會和記者會行政院發言人又說再次強調政府不會放棄追求非核家園我們又看到這個東西又被推出去了\n今天我們拿到了這個施政報告這個禮拜五卓榮泰院長要來的施政報告我們翻開一看很抱歉又沒有非核家園了能源政策資質未提非核家園省主牌看起來好像又要轉彎了\n結果呢我們真的是想要來講你們接下來又要來講說綠能啊綠能啊怎麼樣綠能不是不好但是我們也要必須要講綠能本身不要認為它是無害的我們可能是先享受後付款啊次長你認同這個說法嗎你覺得我們這個之後要付款我們存好了嗎\n我想台灣是一個多元的社會每一位都有他不同的看法跟意見那能源的政策發展我們也看到這樣的一個反應就是說各項能源都有不同的一個優劣點我想這個部分是大家都是知道的但是快要沒有電就是事實好不好我想我們在這種薛丁格的狀態不能存在太久\n民進黨政府從蔡英文總統到賴清德總統神主牌是一種傳承不敢隨便放下有需要的時候就拿起來沒有需要的時候就叫別人說你來碰觸一下我大膽預設接下來的劇情走向民進黨迫於在野黨的壓力為了滿足產業用電的需求無奈情勢只好跟非核家園神主牌還有擁護者們說抱歉民進黨真的不需要這樣一下要一下不要一下是綠一下不綠一下是永核一下是非核想要就大聲說出來\n你如果真的有神主牌你要握著你就握好你不要又拿出來說拜託你把它拿走所以我現在是想要做這件事我幫你們做了一個神主牌神主牌現在給你們一個機會神主牌在這裡你們有沒有人要願意接過去這個神主牌的可不可以願意請舉手我可以給你3秒鐘\n好很好 這就是我們的態度這就是我們的態度到底是要還是不要有人說一定要反核一定要非核然後一下又說一定要綠能我們台灣就快要已經沒有電了核能的6%接下來要剩下3%然後呢一年又有增長率的AI又要增加用6%但是呢我們說安不安全說我現在就直接把它丟到旁邊了我幫你們丟啦\n我想本席認為民進黨政府最終一定會走上核電廠延役的這條路我再次問你們同不同意我們已經通過了國會改革武法我們接下來真的是你們如果有開過會已經要丟掉神主牌了我們已經要友善面對核電了其他部會首長都已經講了\n市長您願不願意承認我們其實就是要往核電延役這條路了願不願意承認雖然我們總統還沒公告啦還有什麼復議啦但是我們先練習一下好不好一個誠懇的我剛剛已經說明很清楚了我們經濟部是執行單位相關的規定就是我們依據的一個很重要的那部長沒有放棄喔他擁抱喔那您會跟隨嗎他擁抱您跟隨嗎\n呃 我想我 我不是我們部長本人基本上委員也不是部長本人那我們經濟部一個很重要的一個這個處理的一致的處理的好打斷您啦就現在在這一刻你沒有立場嘛那核安會主委總有立場了吧\n獨立安全管制機關不應該有立場不應該有立場嗎我們來念一下你們的官方網站上面的16個字核安福安核安民眾心安日新又新專業創新你們應該要告訴我們核能是安全的現在就需要這樣的東西你應該要來告訴我們核安會要來負責讓核能安全結果你剛剛的報告有這麼多人要研議結果你說的是什麼勒\n核安會尊重大院委員提案核能要確保核安要能夠確保核安要能夠確保是你的責任你怎麼會來跟這些提案的委員講說你要核安要能夠確保呢\n好沒有關係我想接下來我們今天有了新的國會新的氣象我也希望未來我們有更良善的交流我們未來有什麼樣的政策我們就大膽的說出來大家一起來準備今天國安會的報告裡面有提到國際上近期重要的核能會議有結論\n在COP28期間美國與21個國家共同發起2050年前致力將核電裝置的容量提升為3倍的聯合倡議這裡面有很多的創新的核電技術2024年3月的核能高峰會\n宣誓指示利用核能協助實現全球碳中和的目標很多的領袖也共同發表聲明部署先進的反應器確保最高程度的安全和保障多位與會領導人表明要讓現有核反應器延長運轉這是你們今天的核安會報告結果我們在這裡問\n在這邊就像一個薛丁格的貓核子就是死不打開到底活到底死到底安全到底不安全到底要核電不要核電都不願意講\n沒有關係我們還有時間但是這個時間真的滴滴答答的在倒數我想接下來不管你們是要除役還是運轉還是延役我也期待你們像報告裡面所講的為民眾的安全把關\n我做好了投影片我今天本來是希望可以打開這個薛丁格的盒子告訴我們到底你們是站在什麼樣的態度你們是同意全民的共識以核養綠嗎?你也是追求經濟發展嗎?神主牌要退場嗎?叫我把它丟掉嗎?核電廠要延役嗎?剛剛還是很感謝次長您有說追求經濟發展優先我覺得這個很好\n至少這個盒子開了一滴滴然後呢我剛剛想說你們就大膽的說我就是要飛和家園我持續下去我一點點都不退縮抱歉你們也不願意走這個路線所以我已經幫你們做好了今天的結論以上皆非啦\n您剛剛所提到的我還要再去買更多的電我們的經費在哪裡我要再去種更多的綠電那我們的做法是什麼我們要有更多的火力發電廠我們要蓋在哪裡\n重整我們剛才的討論我想經濟部安安會今天都沒有辦法很肯定的回答這些問題我投影片直接就做好了時空旅人本來應該有的薛丁格的主委今天可能再加上薛丁格次長本席還是呼籲民進黨政府執政黨要誠實面對整個部會要一致的做法跟說法\n最後引述童子賢董事長所說的電力及國力穩定供電供電品質淨零碳排這幾個條件加總起來就是我們的國力請民進黨政府執政黨真實面對民眾與產業的需求真實面對自己的內心明知道延逸勢在必行就勇敢說出來勇敢把法案提出來謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.269 --> 00:00.750\n請 葛 如 鈞 委 員\n\n00:22.194 --> 00:39.130\n各 位 委 員 長 主 委 長 也 恭 喜 您 順 利 留 任 李 次 長 今 天 很 難 得 經 濟 部 來 到 教 育 委 員 會 您 今 天 站 在 這 裡 跟 我 們 這 個 核 安 會 的 主 委 我 相 信 您 應 該 是 認 同 核 能 安 全 的 經 濟 部 的 書 面 報 告 清 楚 的 呈 現\n\n00:40.091 --> 00:57.760\n接 下 來 的 國 際 能 源 署 的 報 告 裡 面 有 說 全 球 核 能 的 發 電 占 比 會 先 上 升 再 下 降 2 0 3 0 可 能 從 8 % 到 1 0 % 到 2 0 5 0 年 以 後 才 會 再 次 下 降 這 是 全 球 的 趨 勢 台 灣 可 能 沒 有 辦 法 獨 善 其 身 剛 剛 提 到 了 這 個 洪 孟 凱 委 員 提 到\n\n00:58.480 --> 01:19.525\n我 們 一 年 很 可 能 會 增 加 3 % 但 接 下 來 關 機 又 少 3 % 所 以 我 想 這 真 的 是 一 個 沒 有 辦 法 忽 視 的 問 題 今 天 是 賴 政 府 上 台 的 第 1 0 天 能 源 政 策 關 乎 我 們 的 每 一 天 的 生 活 但 是 執 政 黨 的 政 府 對 於 核 能 的 態 度 我 自 己 覺 得 有 點 友 達 以 上 戀 人 未 滿 又 想 報 又 想 不 報 又 想 簽 又 想 不 簽 猶 豫 不 決 兩 者 關 係 非 常 曖 昧 賴 總 統 最 屬 意 的 過 去 曾 經 討 論 過 的 行 政 院 長 人 選\n\n01:27.947 --> 01:36.354\n童 子 賢 先 生 曾 經 說 : 「 地 球 暖 化 才 是 人 類 公 敵 , 何 能 不 是 ? 」 次 長 、 主 委 , 你 們 兩 位 認 同 這 個 說 法 嗎 ?\n\n01:41.496 --> 01:41.956\n接 下 來 我 們 還 提 到 這 個 更 多 的 這 種 小 型 核 電 創 新 的 核 電\n\n02:08.511 --> 02:30.716\n還 不 只 是 童 先 生 ： 卓 院 長 也 說 政 府 會 打 造 更 穩 定 的 經 濟 發 展 環 境 繼 續 發 展 綠 能 但 追 求 非 核 家 園 是 永 不 可 放 棄 的 目 標 有 人 說 可 以 考 慮 核 電 有 人 接 著 又 說 一 定 要 非 核 家 園 我 想 請 教 一 下 次 長 我 們 現 在 到 底 是 要 先 追 求 穩 定 經 濟 發 展 還 是 先 追 求 非 核 家 園 先 哪 一 個\n\n02:33.322 --> 02:57.408\n我 想 站 在 經 濟 部 的 很 重 要 的 任 務 是 要 追 求 我 們 的 經 濟 的 穩 定 發 展 先 追 求 穩 定 發 展 所 以 非 核 家 園 可 能 可 以 放 在 旁 邊 了 嗎 也 不 是 這 樣 我 想 經 濟 部 本 身 考 量 的 那 個 面 向 很 多 好 就 是 是 這 樣 也 是 那 樣 沒 有 關 係 我 們 再 來 看 下 一 張 這 個 經 濟 部 的 部 長 郭 志 威 部 長 上 任 前 就 說 核 能 是 乾 淨 的 能 源 上 任 以 後 會 盡 速 盤 點 政 策 解 決 問 題 我 們 又 要 昏 了\n\n02:59.369 --> 03:22.928\n又 要 來 擁 抱 核 能 那 同 時 呢 身 兼 政 委 的 國 會 委 員 吳 承 文 主 委 上 週 是 在 這 個 地 方 備 詢 的 時 候 他 說 他 沒 有 反 核 神 主 牌 未 來 如 果 發 展 出 潔 淨 安 全 的 核 能 在 這 個 前 提 下 他 認 同 核 能 這 是 原 話 表 達 他 表 達 自 己 立 場 我 再 次 請 問 主 委 跟 次 長 吳 主 委 沒 有 反 核 神 主 牌 你 們 兩 位 有 沒 有 反 核 神 主 牌\n\n03:24.804 --> 03:24.824\n市 長\n\n03:38.885 --> 03:56.681\n我 們 是 執 行 機 關 , 執 行 機 關 就 依 照 相 關 的 規 定 去 執 行 這 樣 子 沒 有 關 係 , 我 們 再 來 看 民 進 黨 大 佬 許 信 良 先 生 也 說 不 要 讓 2 0 世 紀 的 民 進 黨 思 維 來 約 束 2 1 世 紀 的 民 進 黨 政 府 應 該 使 用 核 電 這 4 年 不 改 將 來 也 會 改 因 為 減 碳 是 世 界 性 的 運 動\n\n03:59.284 --> 04:19.347\n國 發 會 主 委 副 主 委 也 說 核 能 政 策 要 尋 求 全 民 共 識 環 境 部 長 彭 啟 明 說 國 際 沒 有 說 一 定 要 或 一 定 不 要 建 議 盡 快 凝 聚 共 識 但 事 實 上 2 0 1 8 年 以 核 養 綠 的 公 投 結 果 就 已 經 是 一 種 全 民 共 識 了 我 們 到 底 還 要 多 少 的 共 識 你 們 才 願 意 放 下 這 個 神 主 牌\n\n04:19.727 --> 04:22.330\n說 我 們 就 是 要 演 繹 我 們 需 要 來 友 善 面 對 核 能 來 承 認 它 是 我 們 接 下 來 必 須 要 存 在 的 一 種 非 常 有 效 的 方 法 同 時 在 你 們 還 不 願 意 承 認 不 願 意 面 對 這 個 核 能 的 時 候 我 們 每 天 每 分 每 秒\n\n04:37.705 --> 05:00.945\n大 家 都 在 吸 入 大 量 的 空 汙 同 時 前 董 事 長 也 提 醒 煤 炭 發 電 現 在 佔 了 3 0 幾 % 排 放 的 煙 恐 怕 帶 來 數 千 萬 人 嚴 重 的 肺 病 或 肺 癌 致 死 因 為 是 慢 性 的 但 是 同 樣 在 這 個 時 間 點 上 周 四 的 行 政 院 會 和 記 者 會 行 政 院 發 言 人 又 說 再 次 強 調 政 府 不 會 放 棄 追 求 非 核 家 園 我 們 又 看 到 這 個 東 西 又 被 推 出 去 了\n\n05:02.647 --> 05:15.885\n今 天 我 們 拿 到 了 這 個 施 政 報 告 這 個 禮 拜 五 卓 榮 泰 院 長 要 來 的 施 政 報 告 我 們 翻 開 一 看 很 抱 歉 又 沒 有 非 核 家 園 了 能 源 政 策 資 質 未 提 非 核 家 園 省 主 牌 看 起 來 好 像 又 要 轉 彎 了\n\n05:18.099 --> 05:33.715\n結 果 呢 我 們 真 的 是 想 要 來 講 你 們 接 下 來 又 要 來 講 說 綠 能 啊 綠 能 啊 怎 麼 樣 綠 能 不 是 不 好 但 是 我 們 也 要 必 須 要 講 綠 能 本 身 不 要 認 為 它 是 無 害 的 我 們 可 能 是 先 享 受 後 付 款 啊 次 長 你 認 同 這 個 說 法 嗎 你 覺 得 我 們 這 個 之 後 要 付 款 我 們 存 好 了 嗎\n\n05:38.809 --> 06:00.187\n我 想 台 灣 是 一 個 多 元 的 社 會 每 一 位 都 有 他 不 同 的 看 法 跟 意 見 那 能 源 的 政 策 發 展 我 們 也 看 到 這 樣 的 一 個 反 應 就 是 說 各 項 能 源 都 有 不 同 的 一 個 優 劣 點 我 想 這 個 部 分 是 大 家 都 是 知 道 的 但 是 快 要 沒 有 電 就 是 事 實 好 不 好 我 想 我 們 在 這 種 薛 丁 格 的 狀 態 不 能 存 在 太 久\n\n06:01.808 --> 06:29.941\n民 進 黨 政 府 從 蔡 英 文 總 統 到 賴 清 德 總 統 神 主 牌 是 一 種 傳 承 不 敢 隨 便 放 下 有 需 要 的 時 候 就 拿 起 來 沒 有 需 要 的 時 候 就 叫 別 人 說 你 來 碰 觸 一 下 我 大 膽 預 設 接 下 來 的 劇 情 走 向 民 進 黨 迫 於 在 野 黨 的 壓 力 為 了 滿 足 產 業 用 電 的 需 求 無 奈 情 勢 只 好 跟 非 核 家 園 神 主 牌 還 有 擁 護 者 們 說 抱 歉 民 進 黨 真 的 不 需 要 這 樣 一 下 要 一 下 不 要 一 下 是 綠 一 下 不 綠 一 下 是 永 核 一 下 是 非 核 想 要 就 大 聲 說 出 來\n\n06:31.001 --> 06:49.605\n你 如 果 真 的 有 神 主 牌 你 要 握 著 你 就 握 好 你 不 要 又 拿 出 來 說 拜 託 你 把 它 拿 走 所 以 我 現 在 是 想 要 做 這 件 事 我 幫 你 們 做 了 一 個 神 主 牌 神 主 牌 現 在 給 你 們 一 個 機 會 神 主 牌 在 這 裡 你 們 有 沒 有 人 要 願 意 接 過 去 這 個 神 主 牌 的 可 不 可 以 願 意 請 舉 手 我 可 以 給 你 3 秒 鐘\n\n06:56.647 --> 07:20.080\n好 很 好 這 就 是 我 們 的 態 度 這 就 是 我 們 的 態 度 到 底 是 要 還 是 不 要 有 人 說 一 定 要 反 核 一 定 要 非 核 然 後 一 下 又 說 一 定 要 綠 能 我 們 台 灣 就 快 要 已 經 沒 有 電 了 核 能 的 6 % 接 下 來 要 剩 下 3 % 然 後 呢 一 年 又 有 增 長 率 的 A I 又 要 增 加 用 6 % 但 是 呢 我 們 說 安 不 安 全 說 我 現 在 就 直 接 把 它 丟 到 旁 邊 了 我 幫 你 們 丟 啦\n\n07:22.521 --> 07:42.554\n我 想 本 席 認 為 民 進 黨 政 府 最 終 一 定 會 走 上 核 電 廠 延 役 的 這 條 路 我 再 次 問 你 們 同 不 同 意 我 們 已 經 通 過 了 國 會 改 革 武 法 我 們 接 下 來 真 的 是 你 們 如 果 有 開 過 會 已 經 要 丟 掉 神 主 牌 了 我 們 已 經 要 友 善 面 對 核 電 了 其 他 部 會 首 長 都 已 經 講 了\n\n07:44.150 --> 08:04.699\n市 長 您 願 不 願 意 承 認 我 們 其 實 就 是 要 往 核 電 延 役 這 條 路 了 願 不 願 意 承 認 雖 然 我 們 總 統 還 沒 公 告 啦 還 有 什 麼 復 議 啦 但 是 我 們 先 練 習 一 下 好 不 好 一 個 誠 懇 的 我 剛 剛 已 經 說 明 很 清 楚 了 我 們 經 濟 部 是 執 行 單 位 相 關 的 規 定 就 是 我 們 依 據 的 一 個 很 重 要 的 那 部 長 沒 有 放 棄 喔 他 擁 抱 喔 那 您 會 跟 隨 嗎 他 擁 抱 您 跟 隨 嗎\n\n08:07.441 --> 08:22.538\n呃 我 想 我 我 不 是 我 們 部 長 本 人 基 本 上 委 員 也 不 是 部 長 本 人 那 我 們 經 濟 部 一 個 很 重 要 的 一 個 這 個 處 理 的 一 致 的 處 理 的 好 打 斷 您 啦 就 現 在 在 這 一 刻 你 沒 有 立 場 嘛 那 核 安 會 主 委 總 有 立 場 了 吧\n\n08:24.420 --> 08:38.329\n獨 立 安 全 管 制 機 關 不 應 該 有 立 場 不 應 該 有 立 場 嗎 我 們 來 念 一 下 你 們 的 官 方 網 站 上 面 的 1 6 個 字 核 安 福 安 核 安 民 眾 心 安 日 新 又 新 專 業 創 新 你 們 應 該 要 告 訴 我 們 核 能 是 安 全 的 現 在 就 需 要 這 樣 的 東 西 你 應 該 要 來 告 訴 我 們 核 安 會 要 來 負 責 讓 核 能 安 全 結 果 你 剛 剛 的 報 告 有 這 麼 多 人 要 研 議 結 果 你 說 的 是 什 麼 勒\n\n08:52.518 --> 09:05.854\n核 安 會 尊 重 大 院 委 員 提 案 核 能 要 確 保 核 安 要 能 夠 確 保 核 安 要 能 夠 確 保 是 你 的 責 任 你 怎 麼 會 來 跟 這 些 提 案 的 委 員 講 說 你 要 核 安 要 能 夠 確 保 呢\n\n09:06.892 --> 09:24.210\n好 沒 有 關 係 我 想 接 下 來 我 們 今 天 有 了 新 的 國 會 新 的 氣 象 我 也 希 望 未 來 我 們 有 更 良 善 的 交 流 我 們 未 來 有 什 麼 樣 的 政 策 我 們 就 大 膽 的 說 出 來 大 家 一 起 來 準 備 今 天 國 安 會 的 報 告 裡 面 有 提 到 國 際 上 近 期 重 要 的 核 能 會 議 有 結 論\n\n09:25.131 --> 09:27.633\n在 C O P 2 8 期 間 美 國 與 2 1 個 國 家 共 同 發 起 2 0 5 0 年 前 致 力 將 核 電 裝 置 的 容 量 提 升 為 3 倍 的 聯 合 倡 議 這 裡 面 有 很 多 的 創 新 的 核 電 技 術 2 0 2 4 年 3 月 的 核 能 高 峰 會\n\n09:43.365 --> 10:01.280\n宣 誓 指 示 利 用 核 能 協 助 實 現 全 球 碳 中 和 的 目 標 很 多 的 領 袖 也 共 同 發 表 聲 明 部 署 先 進 的 反 應 器 確 保 最 高 程 度 的 安 全 和 保 障 多 位 與 會 領 導 人 表 明 要 讓 現 有 核 反 應 器 延 長 運 轉 這 是 你 們 今 天 的 核 安 會 報 告 結 果 我 們 在 這 裡 問\n\n10:07.840 --> 10:18.836\n在 這 邊 就 像 一 個 薛 丁 格 的 貓 核 子 就 是 死 不 打 開 到 底 活 到 底 死 到 底 安 全 到 底 不 安 全 到 底 要 核 電 不 要 核 電 都 不 願 意 講\n\n10:20.305 --> 10:34.555\n沒 有 關 係 我 們 還 有 時 間 但 是 這 個 時 間 真 的 滴 滴 答 答 的 在 倒 數 我 想 接 下 來 不 管 你 們 是 要 除 役 還 是 運 轉 還 是 延 役 我 也 期 待 你 們 像 報 告 裡 面 所 講 的 為 民 眾 的 安 全 把 關\n\n10:36.044 --> 10:50.651\n我 做 好 了 投 影 片 我 今 天 本 來 是 希 望 可 以 打 開 這 個 薛 丁 格 的 盒 子 告 訴 我 們 到 底 你 們 是 站 在 什 麼 樣 的 態 度 你 們 是 同 意 全 民 的 共 識 以 核 養 綠 嗎 ? 你 也 是 追 求 經 濟 發 展 嗎 ? 神 主 牌 要 退 場 嗎 ? 叫 我 把 它 丟 掉 嗎 ? 核 電 廠 要 延 役 嗎 ? 剛 剛 還 是 很 感 謝 次 長 您 有 說 追 求 經 濟 發 展 優 先 我 覺 得 這 個 很 好\n\n11:00.515 --> 11:15.544\n至 少 這 個 盒 子 開 了 一 滴 滴 然 後 呢 我 剛 剛 想 說 你 們 就 大 膽 的 說 我 就 是 要 飛 和 家 園 我 持 續 下 去 我 一 點 點 都 不 退 縮 抱 歉 你 們 也 不 願 意 走 這 個 路 線 所 以 我 已 經 幫 你 們 做 好 了 今 天 的 結 論 以 上 皆 非 啦\n\n11:16.224 --> 11:19.667\n您 剛 剛 所 提 到 的 我 還 要 再 去 買 更 多 的 電 我 們 的 經 費 在 哪 裡 我 要 再 去 種 更 多 的 綠 電 那 我 們 的 做 法 是 什 麼 我 們 要 有 更 多 的 火 力 發 電 廠 我 們 要 蓋 在 哪 裡\n\n11:37.279 --> 11:56.939\n重 整 我 們 剛 才 的 討 論 我 想 經 濟 部 安 安 會 今 天 都 沒 有 辦 法 很 肯 定 的 回 答 這 些 問 題 我 投 影 片 直 接 就 做 好 了 時 空 旅 人 本 來 應 該 有 的 薛 丁 格 的 主 委 今 天 可 能 再 加 上 薛 丁 格 次 長 本 席 還 是 呼 籲 民 進 黨 政 府 執 政 黨 要 誠 實 面 對 整 個 部 會 要 一 致 的 做 法 跟 說 法\n\n11:57.299 --> 12:17.745\n最 後 引 述 童 子 賢 董 事 長 所 說 的 電 力 及 國 力 穩 定 供 電 供 電 品 質 淨 零 碳 排 這 幾 個 條 件 加 總 起 來 就 是 我 們 的 國 力 請 民 進 黨 政 府 執 政 黨 真 實 面 對 民 眾 與 產 業 的 需 求 真 實 面 對 自 己 的 內 心 明 知 道 延 逸 勢 在 必 行 就 勇 敢 說 出 來 勇 敢 把 法 案 提 出 來 謝 謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.269,"end":0.75,"text":"請葛如鈞委員"},{"start":22.194,"end":39.13,"text":"各位委員長主委長也恭喜您順利留任李次長今天很難得經濟部來到教育委員會您今天站在這裡跟我們這個核安會的主委我相信您應該是認同核能安全的經濟部的書面報告清楚的呈現"},{"start":40.091,"end":57.76,"text":"接下來的國際能源署的報告裡面有說全球核能的發電占比會先上升再下降2030可能從8%到10%到2050年以後才會再次下降這是全球的趨勢台灣可能沒有辦法獨善其身剛剛提到了這個洪孟凱委員提到"},{"start":58.48,"end":79.525,"text":"我們一年很可能會增加3%但接下來關機又少3%所以我想這真的是一個沒有辦法忽視的問題今天是賴政府上台的第10天能源政策關乎我們的每一天的生活但是執政黨的政府對於核能的態度我自己覺得有點友達以上戀人未滿又想報又想不報又想簽又想不簽猶豫不決兩者關係非常曖昧賴總統最屬意的過去曾經討論過的行政院長人選"},{"start":87.947,"end":96.354,"text":"童子賢先生曾經說:「地球暖化才是人類公敵,何能不是?」次長、主委,你們兩位認同這個說法嗎?"},{"start":101.496,"end":101.956,"text":"接下來我們還提到這個更多的這種小型核電創新的核電"},{"start":128.511,"end":150.716,"text":"還不只是童先生：卓院長也說政府會打造更穩定的經濟發展環境繼續發展綠能但追求非核家園是永不可放棄的目標有人說可以考慮核電有人接著又說一定要非核家園我想請教一下次長我們現在到底是要先追求穩定經濟發展還是先追求非核家園先哪一個"},{"start":153.322,"end":177.408,"text":"我想站在經濟部的很重要的任務是要追求我們的經濟的穩定發展先追求穩定發展所以非核家園可能可以放在旁邊了嗎也不是這樣我想經濟部本身考量的那個面向很多好就是是這樣也是那樣沒有關係我們再來看下一張這個經濟部的部長郭志威部長上任前就說核能是乾淨的能源上任以後會盡速盤點政策解決問題我們又要昏了"},{"start":179.369,"end":202.928,"text":"又要來擁抱核能那同時呢身兼政委的國會委員吳承文主委上週是在這個地方備詢的時候他說他沒有反核神主牌未來如果發展出潔淨安全的核能在這個前提下他認同核能這是原話表達他表達自己立場我再次請問主委跟次長吳主委沒有反核神主牌你們兩位有沒有反核神主牌"},{"start":204.804,"end":204.824,"text":"市長"},{"start":218.885,"end":236.681,"text":"我們是執行機關,執行機關就依照相關的規定去執行這樣子沒有關係,我們再來看民進黨大佬許信良先生也說不要讓20世紀的民進黨思維來約束21世紀的民進黨政府應該使用核電這4年不改將來也會改因為減碳是世界性的運動"},{"start":239.284,"end":259.347,"text":"國發會主委副主委也說核能政策要尋求全民共識環境部長彭啟明說國際沒有說一定要或一定不要建議盡快凝聚共識但事實上2018年以核養綠的公投結果就已經是一種全民共識了我們到底還要多少的共識你們才願意放下這個神主牌"},{"start":259.727,"end":262.33,"text":"說我們就是要演繹我們需要來友善面對核能來承認它是我們接下來必須要存在的一種非常有效的方法同時在你們還不願意承認不願意面對這個核能的時候我們每天每分每秒"},{"start":277.705,"end":300.945,"text":"大家都在吸入大量的空汙同時前董事長也提醒煤炭發電現在佔了30幾%排放的煙恐怕帶來數千萬人嚴重的肺病或肺癌致死因為是慢性的但是同樣在這個時間點上周四的行政院會和記者會行政院發言人又說再次強調政府不會放棄追求非核家園我們又看到這個東西又被推出去了"},{"start":302.647,"end":315.885,"text":"今天我們拿到了這個施政報告這個禮拜五卓榮泰院長要來的施政報告我們翻開一看很抱歉又沒有非核家園了能源政策資質未提非核家園省主牌看起來好像又要轉彎了"},{"start":318.099,"end":333.715,"text":"結果呢我們真的是想要來講你們接下來又要來講說綠能啊綠能啊怎麼樣綠能不是不好但是我們也要必須要講綠能本身不要認為它是無害的我們可能是先享受後付款啊次長你認同這個說法嗎你覺得我們這個之後要付款我們存好了嗎"},{"start":338.809,"end":360.187,"text":"我想台灣是一個多元的社會每一位都有他不同的看法跟意見那能源的政策發展我們也看到這樣的一個反應就是說各項能源都有不同的一個優劣點我想這個部分是大家都是知道的但是快要沒有電就是事實好不好我想我們在這種薛丁格的狀態不能存在太久"},{"start":361.808,"end":389.941,"text":"民進黨政府從蔡英文總統到賴清德總統神主牌是一種傳承不敢隨便放下有需要的時候就拿起來沒有需要的時候就叫別人說你來碰觸一下我大膽預設接下來的劇情走向民進黨迫於在野黨的壓力為了滿足產業用電的需求無奈情勢只好跟非核家園神主牌還有擁護者們說抱歉民進黨真的不需要這樣一下要一下不要一下是綠一下不綠一下是永核一下是非核想要就大聲說出來"},{"start":391.001,"end":409.605,"text":"你如果真的有神主牌你要握著你就握好你不要又拿出來說拜託你把它拿走所以我現在是想要做這件事我幫你們做了一個神主牌神主牌現在給你們一個機會神主牌在這裡你們有沒有人要願意接過去這個神主牌的可不可以願意請舉手我可以給你3秒鐘"},{"start":416.647,"end":440.08,"text":"好很好 這就是我們的態度這就是我們的態度到底是要還是不要有人說一定要反核一定要非核然後一下又說一定要綠能我們台灣就快要已經沒有電了核能的6%接下來要剩下3%然後呢一年又有增長率的AI又要增加用6%但是呢我們說安不安全說我現在就直接把它丟到旁邊了我幫你們丟啦"},{"start":442.521,"end":462.554,"text":"我想本席認為民進黨政府最終一定會走上核電廠延役的這條路我再次問你們同不同意我們已經通過了國會改革武法我們接下來真的是你們如果有開過會已經要丟掉神主牌了我們已經要友善面對核電了其他部會首長都已經講了"},{"start":464.15,"end":484.699,"text":"市長您願不願意承認我們其實就是要往核電延役這條路了願不願意承認雖然我們總統還沒公告啦還有什麼復議啦但是我們先練習一下好不好一個誠懇的我剛剛已經說明很清楚了我們經濟部是執行單位相關的規定就是我們依據的一個很重要的那部長沒有放棄喔他擁抱喔那您會跟隨嗎他擁抱您跟隨嗎"},{"start":487.441,"end":502.538,"text":"呃 我想我 我不是我們部長本人基本上委員也不是部長本人那我們經濟部一個很重要的一個這個處理的一致的處理的好打斷您啦就現在在這一刻你沒有立場嘛那核安會主委總有立場了吧"},{"start":504.42,"end":518.329,"text":"獨立安全管制機關不應該有立場不應該有立場嗎我們來念一下你們的官方網站上面的16個字核安福安核安民眾心安日新又新專業創新你們應該要告訴我們核能是安全的現在就需要這樣的東西你應該要來告訴我們核安會要來負責讓核能安全結果你剛剛的報告有這麼多人要研議結果你說的是什麼勒"},{"start":532.518,"end":545.854,"text":"核安會尊重大院委員提案核能要確保核安要能夠確保核安要能夠確保是你的責任你怎麼會來跟這些提案的委員講說你要核安要能夠確保呢"},{"start":546.892,"end":564.21,"text":"好沒有關係我想接下來我們今天有了新的國會新的氣象我也希望未來我們有更良善的交流我們未來有什麼樣的政策我們就大膽的說出來大家一起來準備今天國安會的報告裡面有提到國際上近期重要的核能會議有結論"},{"start":565.131,"end":567.633,"text":"在COP28期間美國與21個國家共同發起2050年前致力將核電裝置的容量提升為3倍的聯合倡議這裡面有很多的創新的核電技術2024年3月的核能高峰會"},{"start":583.365,"end":601.28,"text":"宣誓指示利用核能協助實現全球碳中和的目標很多的領袖也共同發表聲明部署先進的反應器確保最高程度的安全和保障多位與會領導人表明要讓現有核反應器延長運轉這是你們今天的核安會報告結果我們在這裡問"},{"start":607.84,"end":618.836,"text":"在這邊就像一個薛丁格的貓核子就是死不打開到底活到底死到底安全到底不安全到底要核電不要核電都不願意講"},{"start":620.305,"end":634.555,"text":"沒有關係我們還有時間但是這個時間真的滴滴答答的在倒數我想接下來不管你們是要除役還是運轉還是延役我也期待你們像報告裡面所講的為民眾的安全把關"},{"start":636.044,"end":650.651,"text":"我做好了投影片我今天本來是希望可以打開這個薛丁格的盒子告訴我們到底你們是站在什麼樣的態度你們是同意全民的共識以核養綠嗎?你也是追求經濟發展嗎?神主牌要退場嗎?叫我把它丟掉嗎?核電廠要延役嗎?剛剛還是很感謝次長您有說追求經濟發展優先我覺得這個很好"},{"start":660.515,"end":675.544,"text":"至少這個盒子開了一滴滴然後呢我剛剛想說你們就大膽的說我就是要飛和家園我持續下去我一點點都不退縮抱歉你們也不願意走這個路線所以我已經幫你們做好了今天的結論以上皆非啦"},{"start":676.224,"end":679.667,"text":"您剛剛所提到的我還要再去買更多的電我們的經費在哪裡我要再去種更多的綠電那我們的做法是什麼我們要有更多的火力發電廠我們要蓋在哪裡"},{"start":697.279,"end":716.939,"text":"重整我們剛才的討論我想經濟部安安會今天都沒有辦法很肯定的回答這些問題我投影片直接就做好了時空旅人本來應該有的薛丁格的主委今天可能再加上薛丁格次長本席還是呼籲民進黨政府執政黨要誠實面對整個部會要一致的做法跟說法"},{"start":717.299,"end":737.745,"text":"最後引述童子賢董事長所說的電力及國力穩定供電供電品質淨零碳排這幾個條件加總起來就是我們的國力請民進黨政府執政黨真實面對民眾與產業的需求真實面對自己的內心明知道延逸勢在必行就勇敢說出來勇敢把法案提出來謝謝"}]}}}}