{"id":153185,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153185","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/2c978e04ca5e1331178d8ca05e5ea3a46bfa9387d0b459bd333bc5d453e1b19500d8e0402cabe7a75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林俊憲","委員發言時間":"09:21:06 - 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採 購 弊 案 甚 至 也 會 有 浪 費 工 廠 的 狀 況 他 說 第 一 點 你 沒 有 合 理 的 編 列 工 程 預 算\n\n3\n00:00:52,616 --> 00:01:18,314\n這 裡 講 的 就 是 說 你 看 得 到 部 分 工 程 單 價 都 是 偏 離 市 場 行 情 超 過 太 高 甚 至 有 的 工 程 整 體 跟 市 價 相 比 就 是 說 有 很 大 的 一 個 差 距 也 就 是 編 得 太 寬 鬆 太 高 那 這 當 中 就 產 生 會 有 弊 案 的 那 種 狀 況 第 二 個 就 是 沒 有 按 照 規 定 何 時 訂 定 底 價\n\n4\n00:01:19,975 --> 00:01:37,040\n他 這 個 底 價 訂 了 有 問 題 第 三 點 沒 有 周 圓 的 保 存 採 購 文 件 所 以 他 很 多 文 件 他 沒 有 保 存 好 的 時 候 會 造 成 你 判 定 這 個 投 標 廠 商 有 沒 有 微 標 等 等 異 常 的 狀 況 第 四 點 他 說 採 購 的 評 選 過 程 不 嚴 謹 就 是 評 選 的 問 題 那 麼 再 來 就 是 驗 收 作 業 不 周 全\n\n5\n00:01:49,696 --> 00:01:58,960\n請 問 這 幾 點 我 們 工 程 會 有 哪 些 工 程 會 認 為 應 該 可 以 啦 就 你 工 程 會 本 身 的 職 責 你 可 以 來 改 善 了 謝 謝 委 員 指 教\n\n6\n00:02:35,170 --> 00:02:47,774\n來 改 善 如 上 委 員 所 提 示 的 這 5 個 缺 失 我 希 望 曾 主 委 上 來 能 夠 針 對 過 去 大 概 整 理 出 來 採 購 弊 案 的 發 生 的 種 種 樣 態 能 夠 提 出 對 策 來 改 善 我 們 各 項 的 招 標 採 購\n\n7\n00:02:58,359 --> 00:03:19,864\n在 政 策 性 的 推 動 上 工 程 會 提 出 一 點 我 們 現 在 需 要 進 行 的 節 能 減 碳 我 們 在 節 能 減 碳 上 其 中 有 一 點 就 是 對 於 營 造 材 料 其 中 在\n\n8\n00:03:21,414 --> 00:03:43,439\n由 臺 灣 營 建 研 究 院 所 舉 辦 的 根 據 聯 合 國 氣 候 變 遷 大 會 組 成 了 先 行 者 聯 盟 就 宣 誓 支 持 水 泥 和 混 泥 土 的 低 碳 採 購 協 議 那 麼 聯 盟 的 成 員 就 包 括 臺 灣 成 功 到 2 0 3 0 年 以 前 我 們 每 一 年 都 要 至 少 購 買 1 0 % 的 低 碳 排 的 水 泥 或 者 混 泥 土\n\n9\n00:03:44,878 --> 00:04:09,315\n大 家 知 道 其 實 基 本 上 混 凝 土 的 碳 排 放 量 在 全 世 界 大 概 佔 了 8 % 就 人 類 進 行 各 項 的 工 程 一 定 都 會 用 到 混 凝 土 其 實 佔 了 非 常 高 的 碳 排 放 量 全 球 大 概 8 % 那 碳 排 放 在 混 凝 土 裡 面 主 要 就 是 水 泥 的 製 成 所 以 每 一 公 噸 的 水 泥 大 概 會 釋 放 9 0 0 公 斤 的 二 氧 化 碳\n\n10\n00:04:10,438 --> 00:04:23,064\n那 麼 約 賬 混 凝 土 排 放 量 的 9 0 % 也 就 是 說 混 凝 土 的 主 要 碳 排 放 都 是 來 自 水 泥 那 因 此 呢 政 府 啊 就 推 動 啊 要 用 石 灰 石 水 泥 你 知 道 這 個 事 情\n\n11\n00:04:27,042 --> 00:04:27,922\n實 際 使 用 上 不 是 這 樣 子\n\n12\n00:04:56,713 --> 00:05:21,132\n你 理 解 的 跟 現 況 是 不 一 樣 現 在 業 者 反 映 因 為 你 石 灰 石 水 泥 工 程 會 又 規 定 它 不 得 已 摻 料 那 你 不 得 已 摻 料 的 話 用 起 來 就 不 好 用 了 那 你 會 規 定 它 不 能 摻 料 是 因 為 你 怕 它 摻 的 料 會 不 會 影 響 到 以 後 因 為 石 灰 石 水 泥 不 是 一 般 的 傳 統 水 泥 怕 影 響 到 它 的 安 全 性\n\n13\n00:05:22,563 --> 00:05:50,280\n所 以 呢 所 以 國 內 的 業 者 現 在 都 不 用 石 灰 石 水 泥 使 用 率 非 常 非 常 低 那 其 中 的 工 程 會 規 定 你 如 果 業 者 要 參 料 石 灰 石 水 泥 你 要 參 料 那 麼 你 必 須 要 經 過 第 三 方 專 業 機 構 驗 證 那 麼 政 府 才 會 同 意 你 去 使 用 參 料 的 石 灰 石 水 泥 所 以 你 現 在 造 成 現 在 的 營 造 廠 工 程 單 位 根 本 都 不 用 石 灰 石 水 泥\n\n14\n00:05:51,240 --> 00:06:17,548\n你 知 道 真 的 是 吧 那 你 這 樣 就 曲 解 了 就 這 種 要 推 動 碳 排 減 放 你 就 遇 到 了 一 個 跟 實 際 使 用 狀 況 非 常 矛 盾 的 一 個 地 方 你 了 解 這 個 事 情 嗎 所 以 如 果 你 未 來 真 的 要 鼓 勵 業 者 採 用 低 碳 排 的 建 築 材 料 那 麼 你 應 該 要 有 相 當 政 策 性 的 鼓 勵 或 者 是 你 必 須 要 放 寬 的 地 方 因 為 你 加 什 麼 水 你 那 成 本 會 比 較 高\n\n15\n00:06:19,313 --> 00:06:24,489\n業 者 以 成 本 來 講 的 話 他 絕 對 可 以 避 免 他 盡 量 不 要 用\n\n16\n00:06:25,700 --> 00:06:51,528\n所 以 未 來 我 們 是 不 是 在 工 程 採 購 政 府 帶 頭 你 要 推 動 嘛 那 麼 是 不 是 會 有 例 如 如 果 你 使 用 環 保 節 能 低 碳 排 的 建 築 材 料 那 麼 我 就 給 你 獎 勵 也 就 是 說 你 在 編 列 預 算 的 時 候 就 給 他 獎 勵 或 者 是 或 者 是 呢 你 拉 入 工 程 的 金 質 獎 你 在 考 核 考 核 評 量 工 程 金 質 獎 的 時 候 你 要 計 算 他 使 用 多 少\n\n17\n00:06:52,805 --> 00:07:21,048\n環 保 地 碳 排 的 材 質 這 個 也 必 須 納 入 考 量 我 看 你 對 這 個 問 題 好 像 還 不 是 很 了 解 主 委 向 委 員 報 告 那 麼 關 於 要 經 第 三 方 的 這 個 驗 證 然 後 報 機 關 同 意 才 能 使 用 這 一 部 分 我 會 遵 照 委 員 的 指 示 來 做 相 關 的 研 擬 來 修 正 那 麼 也 會 鼓 勵 各 相 關 機 關 在 源 頭 在 編 列 預 算 的 時 候 就 落 實 使 用 水 池 水 泥\n\n18\n00:07:23,154 --> 00:07:24,783\n好 謝 謝 主 委 謝 謝 主 席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3735\t9396\t好謝謝主席本集邀請我們工程會陳金德主委請陳主委主委好主委我們今天來關心喔採購各項採購案為什麼會發生弊案為什麼會有浪費公帑的情形\n29994\t50997\t那這其中就是這五點這不是我寫的這是審計單位所提列出來的就有五大共同性的缺失所以會造成我們一些工程的採購弊案甚至也會有浪費工廠的狀況他說第一點你沒有合理的編列工程預算\n52616\t78314\t這裡講的就是說你看得到部分工程單價都是偏離市場行情超過太高甚至有的工程整體跟市價相比就是說有很大的一個差距也就是編得太寬鬆太高那這當中就產生會有弊案的那種狀況第二個就是沒有按照規定何時訂定底價\n79975\t97040\t他這個底價訂了有問題第三點沒有周圓的保存採購文件所以他很多文件他沒有保存好的時候會造成你判定這個投標廠商有沒有微標等等異常的狀況第四點他說採購的評選過程不嚴謹就是評選的問題那麼再來就是驗收作業不周全\n109696\t118960\t請問這幾點我們工程會有哪些工程會認為應該可以啦就你工程會本身的職責你可以來改善了謝謝委員指教\n123490\t153490\t﹗\n155170\t167774\t來改善如上委員所提示的這5個缺失我希望曾主委上來能夠針對過去大概整理出來採購弊案的發生的種種樣態能夠提出對策來改善我們各項的招標採購\n178359\t199864\t在政策性的推動上工程會提出一點我們現在需要進行的節能減碳我們在節能減碳上其中有一點就是對於營造材料其中在\n201414\t223439\t由臺灣營建研究院所舉辦的根據聯合國氣候變遷大會組成了先行者聯盟就宣誓支持水泥和混泥土的低碳採購協議那麼聯盟的成員就包括臺灣成功到2030年以前我們每一年都要至少購買10%的低碳排的水泥或者混泥土\n224878\t249315\t大家知道其實基本上混凝土的碳排放量在全世界大概佔了8%就人類進行各項的工程一定都會用到混凝土其實佔了非常高的碳排放量全球大概8%那碳排放在混凝土裡面主要就是水泥的製成所以每一公噸的水泥大概會釋放900公斤的二氧化碳\n250438\t263064\t那麼約賬混凝土排放量的90%也就是說混凝土的主要碳排放都是來自水泥那因此呢政府啊就推動啊要用石灰石水泥你知道這個事情\n267042\t267922\t實際使用上不是這樣子\n296713\t321132\t你理解的跟現況是不一樣現在業者反映因為你石灰石水泥工程會又規定它不得已摻料那你不得已摻料的話用起來就不好用了那你會規定它不能摻料是因為你怕它摻的料會不會影響到以後因為石灰石水泥不是一般的傳統水泥怕影響到它的安全性\n322563\t350280\t所以呢所以國內的業者現在都不用石灰石水泥使用率非常非常低那其中的工程會規定你如果業者要參料石灰石水泥你要參料那麼你必須要經過第三方專業機構驗證那麼政府才會同意你去使用參料的石灰石水泥所以你現在造成現在的營造廠工程單位根本都不用石灰石水泥\n351240\t377548\t你知道真的是吧那你這樣就曲解了就這種要推動碳排減放你就遇到了一個跟實際使用狀況非常矛盾的一個地方你了解這個事情嗎所以如果你未來真的要鼓勵業者採用低碳排的建築材料那麼你應該要有相當政策性的鼓勵或者是你必須要放寬的地方因為你加什麼水你那成本會比較高\n379313\t384489\t業者以成本來講的話他絕對可以避免他盡量不要用\n385700\t411528\t所以未來我們是不是在工程採購政府帶頭你要推動嘛那麼是不是會有例如如果你使用環保節能低碳排的建築材料那麼我就給你獎勵也就是說你在編列預算的時候就給他獎勵或者是或者是呢你拉入工程的金質獎你在考核考核評量工程金質獎的時候你要計算他使用多少\n412805\t441048\t環保地碳排的材質這個也必須納入考量我看你對這個問題好像還不是很了解主委向委員報告那麼關於要經第三方的這個驗證然後報機關同意才能使用這一部分我會遵照委員的指示來做相關的研擬來修正那麼也會鼓勵各相關機關在源頭在編列預算的時候就落實使用水池水泥\n443154\t444783\t好謝謝主委謝謝主席\n","txt":"好謝謝主席本集邀請我們工程會陳金德主委請陳主委主委好主委我們今天來關心喔採購各項採購案為什麼會發生弊案為什麼會有浪費公帑的情形\n那這其中就是這五點這不是我寫的這是審計單位所提列出來的就有五大共同性的缺失所以會造成我們一些工程的採購弊案甚至也會有浪費工廠的狀況他說第一點你沒有合理的編列工程預算\n這裡講的就是說你看得到部分工程單價都是偏離市場行情超過太高甚至有的工程整體跟市價相比就是說有很大的一個差距也就是編得太寬鬆太高那這當中就產生會有弊案的那種狀況第二個就是沒有按照規定何時訂定底價\n他這個底價訂了有問題第三點沒有周圓的保存採購文件所以他很多文件他沒有保存好的時候會造成你判定這個投標廠商有沒有微標等等異常的狀況第四點他說採購的評選過程不嚴謹就是評選的問題那麼再來就是驗收作業不周全\n請問這幾點我們工程會有哪些工程會認為應該可以啦就你工程會本身的職責你可以來改善了謝謝委員指教\n﹗\n來改善如上委員所提示的這5個缺失我希望曾主委上來能夠針對過去大概整理出來採購弊案的發生的種種樣態能夠提出對策來改善我們各項的招標採購\n在政策性的推動上工程會提出一點我們現在需要進行的節能減碳我們在節能減碳上其中有一點就是對於營造材料其中在\n由臺灣營建研究院所舉辦的根據聯合國氣候變遷大會組成了先行者聯盟就宣誓支持水泥和混泥土的低碳採購協議那麼聯盟的成員就包括臺灣成功到2030年以前我們每一年都要至少購買10%的低碳排的水泥或者混泥土\n大家知道其實基本上混凝土的碳排放量在全世界大概佔了8%就人類進行各項的工程一定都會用到混凝土其實佔了非常高的碳排放量全球大概8%那碳排放在混凝土裡面主要就是水泥的製成所以每一公噸的水泥大概會釋放900公斤的二氧化碳\n那麼約賬混凝土排放量的90%也就是說混凝土的主要碳排放都是來自水泥那因此呢政府啊就推動啊要用石灰石水泥你知道這個事情\n實際使用上不是這樣子\n你理解的跟現況是不一樣現在業者反映因為你石灰石水泥工程會又規定它不得已摻料那你不得已摻料的話用起來就不好用了那你會規定它不能摻料是因為你怕它摻的料會不會影響到以後因為石灰石水泥不是一般的傳統水泥怕影響到它的安全性\n所以呢所以國內的業者現在都不用石灰石水泥使用率非常非常低那其中的工程會規定你如果業者要參料石灰石水泥你要參料那麼你必須要經過第三方專業機構驗證那麼政府才會同意你去使用參料的石灰石水泥所以你現在造成現在的營造廠工程單位根本都不用石灰石水泥\n你知道真的是吧那你這樣就曲解了就這種要推動碳排減放你就遇到了一個跟實際使用狀況非常矛盾的一個地方你了解這個事情嗎所以如果你未來真的要鼓勵業者採用低碳排的建築材料那麼你應該要有相當政策性的鼓勵或者是你必須要放寬的地方因為你加什麼水你那成本會比較高\n業者以成本來講的話他絕對可以避免他盡量不要用\n所以未來我們是不是在工程採購政府帶頭你要推動嘛那麼是不是會有例如如果你使用環保節能低碳排的建築材料那麼我就給你獎勵也就是說你在編列預算的時候就給他獎勵或者是或者是呢你拉入工程的金質獎你在考核考核評量工程金質獎的時候你要計算他使用多少\n環保地碳排的材質這個也必須納入考量我看你對這個問題好像還不是很了解主委向委員報告那麼關於要經第三方的這個驗證然後報機關同意才能使用這一部分我會遵照委員的指示來做相關的研擬來修正那麼也會鼓勵各相關機關在源頭在編列預算的時候就落實使用水池水泥\n好謝謝主委謝謝主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.735 --> 00:09.396\n好 謝 謝 主 席 本 集 邀 請 我 們 工 程 會 陳 金 德 主 委 請 陳 主 委 主 委 好 主 委 我 們 今 天 來 關 心 喔 採 購 各 項 採 購 案 為 什 麼 會 發 生 弊 案 為 什 麼 會 有 浪 費 公 帑 的 情 形\n\n00:29.994 --> 00:50.997\n那 這 其 中 就 是 這 五 點 這 不 是 我 寫 的 這 是 審 計 單 位 所 提 列 出 來 的 就 有 五 大 共 同 性 的 缺 失 所 以 會 造 成 我 們 一 些 工 程 的 採 購 弊 案 甚 至 也 會 有 浪 費 工 廠 的 狀 況 他 說 第 一 點 你 沒 有 合 理 的 編 列 工 程 預 算\n\n00:52.616 --> 01:18.314\n這 裡 講 的 就 是 說 你 看 得 到 部 分 工 程 單 價 都 是 偏 離 市 場 行 情 超 過 太 高 甚 至 有 的 工 程 整 體 跟 市 價 相 比 就 是 說 有 很 大 的 一 個 差 距 也 就 是 編 得 太 寬 鬆 太 高 那 這 當 中 就 產 生 會 有 弊 案 的 那 種 狀 況 第 二 個 就 是 沒 有 按 照 規 定 何 時 訂 定 底 價\n\n01:19.975 --> 01:37.040\n他 這 個 底 價 訂 了 有 問 題 第 三 點 沒 有 周 圓 的 保 存 採 購 文 件 所 以 他 很 多 文 件 他 沒 有 保 存 好 的 時 候 會 造 成 你 判 定 這 個 投 標 廠 商 有 沒 有 微 標 等 等 異 常 的 狀 況 第 四 點 他 說 採 購 的 評 選 過 程 不 嚴 謹 就 是 評 選 的 問 題 那 麼 再 來 就 是 驗 收 作 業 不 周 全\n\n01:49.696 --> 01:58.960\n請 問 這 幾 點 我 們 工 程 會 有 哪 些 工 程 會 認 為 應 該 可 以 啦 就 你 工 程 會 本 身 的 職 責 你 可 以 來 改 善 了 謝 謝 委 員 指 教\n\n02:35.170 --> 02:47.774\n來 改 善 如 上 委 員 所 提 示 的 這 5 個 缺 失 我 希 望 曾 主 委 上 來 能 夠 針 對 過 去 大 概 整 理 出 來 採 購 弊 案 的 發 生 的 種 種 樣 態 能 夠 提 出 對 策 來 改 善 我 們 各 項 的 招 標 採 購\n\n02:58.359 --> 03:19.864\n在 政 策 性 的 推 動 上 工 程 會 提 出 一 點 我 們 現 在 需 要 進 行 的 節 能 減 碳 我 們 在 節 能 減 碳 上 其 中 有 一 點 就 是 對 於 營 造 材 料 其 中 在\n\n03:21.414 --> 03:43.439\n由 臺 灣 營 建 研 究 院 所 舉 辦 的 根 據 聯 合 國 氣 候 變 遷 大 會 組 成 了 先 行 者 聯 盟 就 宣 誓 支 持 水 泥 和 混 泥 土 的 低 碳 採 購 協 議 那 麼 聯 盟 的 成 員 就 包 括 臺 灣 成 功 到 2 0 3 0 年 以 前 我 們 每 一 年 都 要 至 少 購 買 1 0 % 的 低 碳 排 的 水 泥 或 者 混 泥 土\n\n03:44.878 --> 04:09.315\n大 家 知 道 其 實 基 本 上 混 凝 土 的 碳 排 放 量 在 全 世 界 大 概 佔 了 8 % 就 人 類 進 行 各 項 的 工 程 一 定 都 會 用 到 混 凝 土 其 實 佔 了 非 常 高 的 碳 排 放 量 全 球 大 概 8 % 那 碳 排 放 在 混 凝 土 裡 面 主 要 就 是 水 泥 的 製 成 所 以 每 一 公 噸 的 水 泥 大 概 會 釋 放 9 0 0 公 斤 的 二 氧 化 碳\n\n04:10.438 --> 04:23.064\n那 麼 約 賬 混 凝 土 排 放 量 的 9 0 % 也 就 是 說 混 凝 土 的 主 要 碳 排 放 都 是 來 自 水 泥 那 因 此 呢 政 府 啊 就 推 動 啊 要 用 石 灰 石 水 泥 你 知 道 這 個 事 情\n\n04:27.042 --> 04:27.922\n實 際 使 用 上 不 是 這 樣 子\n\n04:56.713 --> 05:21.132\n你 理 解 的 跟 現 況 是 不 一 樣 現 在 業 者 反 映 因 為 你 石 灰 石 水 泥 工 程 會 又 規 定 它 不 得 已 摻 料 那 你 不 得 已 摻 料 的 話 用 起 來 就 不 好 用 了 那 你 會 規 定 它 不 能 摻 料 是 因 為 你 怕 它 摻 的 料 會 不 會 影 響 到 以 後 因 為 石 灰 石 水 泥 不 是 一 般 的 傳 統 水 泥 怕 影 響 到 它 的 安 全 性\n\n05:22.563 --> 05:50.280\n所 以 呢 所 以 國 內 的 業 者 現 在 都 不 用 石 灰 石 水 泥 使 用 率 非 常 非 常 低 那 其 中 的 工 程 會 規 定 你 如 果 業 者 要 參 料 石 灰 石 水 泥 你 要 參 料 那 麼 你 必 須 要 經 過 第 三 方 專 業 機 構 驗 證 那 麼 政 府 才 會 同 意 你 去 使 用 參 料 的 石 灰 石 水 泥 所 以 你 現 在 造 成 現 在 的 營 造 廠 工 程 單 位 根 本 都 不 用 石 灰 石 水 泥\n\n05:51.240 --> 06:17.548\n你 知 道 真 的 是 吧 那 你 這 樣 就 曲 解 了 就 這 種 要 推 動 碳 排 減 放 你 就 遇 到 了 一 個 跟 實 際 使 用 狀 況 非 常 矛 盾 的 一 個 地 方 你 了 解 這 個 事 情 嗎 所 以 如 果 你 未 來 真 的 要 鼓 勵 業 者 採 用 低 碳 排 的 建 築 材 料 那 麼 你 應 該 要 有 相 當 政 策 性 的 鼓 勵 或 者 是 你 必 須 要 放 寬 的 地 方 因 為 你 加 什 麼 水 你 那 成 本 會 比 較 高\n\n06:19.313 --> 06:24.489\n業 者 以 成 本 來 講 的 話 他 絕 對 可 以 避 免 他 盡 量 不 要 用\n\n06:25.700 --> 06:51.528\n所 以 未 來 我 們 是 不 是 在 工 程 採 購 政 府 帶 頭 你 要 推 動 嘛 那 麼 是 不 是 會 有 例 如 如 果 你 使 用 環 保 節 能 低 碳 排 的 建 築 材 料 那 麼 我 就 給 你 獎 勵 也 就 是 說 你 在 編 列 預 算 的 時 候 就 給 他 獎 勵 或 者 是 或 者 是 呢 你 拉 入 工 程 的 金 質 獎 你 在 考 核 考 核 評 量 工 程 金 質 獎 的 時 候 你 要 計 算 他 使 用 多 少\n\n06:52.805 --> 07:21.048\n環 保 地 碳 排 的 材 質 這 個 也 必 須 納 入 考 量 我 看 你 對 這 個 問 題 好 像 還 不 是 很 了 解 主 委 向 委 員 報 告 那 麼 關 於 要 經 第 三 方 的 這 個 驗 證 然 後 報 機 關 同 意 才 能 使 用 這 一 部 分 我 會 遵 照 委 員 的 指 示 來 做 相 關 的 研 擬 來 修 正 那 麼 也 會 鼓 勵 各 相 關 機 關 在 源 頭 在 編 列 預 算 的 時 候 就 落 實 使 用 水 池 水 泥\n\n07:23.154 --> 07:24.783\n好 謝 謝 主 委 謝 謝 主 席\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.735,"end":9.396,"text":"好謝謝主席本集邀請我們工程會陳金德主委請陳主委主委好主委我們今天來關心喔採購各項採購案為什麼會發生弊案為什麼會有浪費公帑的情形"},{"start":29.994,"end":50.997,"text":"那這其中就是這五點這不是我寫的這是審計單位所提列出來的就有五大共同性的缺失所以會造成我們一些工程的採購弊案甚至也會有浪費工廠的狀況他說第一點你沒有合理的編列工程預算"},{"start":52.616,"end":78.314,"text":"這裡講的就是說你看得到部分工程單價都是偏離市場行情超過太高甚至有的工程整體跟市價相比就是說有很大的一個差距也就是編得太寬鬆太高那這當中就產生會有弊案的那種狀況第二個就是沒有按照規定何時訂定底價"},{"start":79.975,"end":97.04,"text":"他這個底價訂了有問題第三點沒有周圓的保存採購文件所以他很多文件他沒有保存好的時候會造成你判定這個投標廠商有沒有微標等等異常的狀況第四點他說採購的評選過程不嚴謹就是評選的問題那麼再來就是驗收作業不周全"},{"start":109.696,"end":118.96,"text":"請問這幾點我們工程會有哪些工程會認為應該可以啦就你工程會本身的職責你可以來改善了謝謝委員指教"},{"start":123.49,"end":153.49,"text":"﹗"},{"start":155.17,"end":167.774,"text":"來改善如上委員所提示的這5個缺失我希望曾主委上來能夠針對過去大概整理出來採購弊案的發生的種種樣態能夠提出對策來改善我們各項的招標採購"},{"start":178.359,"end":199.864,"text":"在政策性的推動上工程會提出一點我們現在需要進行的節能減碳我們在節能減碳上其中有一點就是對於營造材料其中在"},{"start":201.414,"end":223.439,"text":"由臺灣營建研究院所舉辦的根據聯合國氣候變遷大會組成了先行者聯盟就宣誓支持水泥和混泥土的低碳採購協議那麼聯盟的成員就包括臺灣成功到2030年以前我們每一年都要至少購買10%的低碳排的水泥或者混泥土"},{"start":224.878,"end":249.315,"text":"大家知道其實基本上混凝土的碳排放量在全世界大概佔了8%就人類進行各項的工程一定都會用到混凝土其實佔了非常高的碳排放量全球大概8%那碳排放在混凝土裡面主要就是水泥的製成所以每一公噸的水泥大概會釋放900公斤的二氧化碳"},{"start":250.438,"end":263.064,"text":"那麼約賬混凝土排放量的90%也就是說混凝土的主要碳排放都是來自水泥那因此呢政府啊就推動啊要用石灰石水泥你知道這個事情"},{"start":267.042,"end":267.922,"text":"實際使用上不是這樣子"},{"start":296.713,"end":321.132,"text":"你理解的跟現況是不一樣現在業者反映因為你石灰石水泥工程會又規定它不得已摻料那你不得已摻料的話用起來就不好用了那你會規定它不能摻料是因為你怕它摻的料會不會影響到以後因為石灰石水泥不是一般的傳統水泥怕影響到它的安全性"},{"start":322.563,"end":350.28,"text":"所以呢所以國內的業者現在都不用石灰石水泥使用率非常非常低那其中的工程會規定你如果業者要參料石灰石水泥你要參料那麼你必須要經過第三方專業機構驗證那麼政府才會同意你去使用參料的石灰石水泥所以你現在造成現在的營造廠工程單位根本都不用石灰石水泥"},{"start":351.24,"end":377.548,"text":"你知道真的是吧那你這樣就曲解了就這種要推動碳排減放你就遇到了一個跟實際使用狀況非常矛盾的一個地方你了解這個事情嗎所以如果你未來真的要鼓勵業者採用低碳排的建築材料那麼你應該要有相當政策性的鼓勵或者是你必須要放寬的地方因為你加什麼水你那成本會比較高"},{"start":379.313,"end":384.489,"text":"業者以成本來講的話他絕對可以避免他盡量不要用"},{"start":385.7,"end":411.528,"text":"所以未來我們是不是在工程採購政府帶頭你要推動嘛那麼是不是會有例如如果你使用環保節能低碳排的建築材料那麼我就給你獎勵也就是說你在編列預算的時候就給他獎勵或者是或者是呢你拉入工程的金質獎你在考核考核評量工程金質獎的時候你要計算他使用多少"},{"start":412.805,"end":441.048,"text":"環保地碳排的材質這個也必須納入考量我看你對這個問題好像還不是很了解主委向委員報告那麼關於要經第三方的這個驗證然後報機關同意才能使用這一部分我會遵照委員的指示來做相關的研擬來修正那麼也會鼓勵各相關機關在源頭在編列預算的時候就落實使用水池水泥"},{"start":443.154,"end":444.783,"text":"好謝謝主委謝謝主席"}]}}}}