{"id":153191,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153191","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/2c978e04ca5e1331eff7482ecc00f67adb3ca66b34e87331333bc5d453e1b195446cbe90ca178f225ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"莊瑞雄","委員發言時間":"09:49:24 - 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\"score\": 0.931}]}, {\"start\": 128.293, \"end\": 145.242, \"text\": \"目前我認為最大的問題就是因為監護處的確是要醫療照護來代替那個那個就把它當作屬性把它界定在病人的這個這個主體但是因為我們現在醫療的這部分的有\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 128.293, \"end\": 128.513, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 128.513, \"end\": 130.114, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 130.114, \"end\": 130.294, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 130.294, \"end\": 130.474, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 130.474, \"end\": 130.634, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 130.634, \"end\": 131.035, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 131.035, \"end\": 131.235, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 131.235, \"end\": 131.875, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 131.875, \"end\": 132.755, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"監\"}, {\"word\": \"護\"}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", 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142.48, \"end\": 142.62, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 142.62, \"end\": 142.84, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 142.84, \"end\": 143.261, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 143.261, \"end\": 143.961, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"醫\"}, {\"word\": \"療\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 143.961, \"end\": 144.461, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 144.461, \"end\": 144.641, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 144.641, \"end\": 144.982, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 144.982, \"end\": 145.222, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 145.222, \"end\": 145.242, \"score\": 0.019}]}, {\"start\": 146.443, \"end\": 166.762, \"text\": \"醫療處所的這邊的資源是還不夠的那而且最主要就是有意要做這些有管理監護執行監護收治監護處分的這些的醫院的意願不高再加上有這些的其實說有這些的充分的比較多的資源醫院這部分我沒有去了解是意願是不高的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"醫\"}, {\"word\": \"療\"}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", 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{\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 159.415, \"end\": 159.535, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 159.535, \"end\": 159.635, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 159.635, \"end\": 159.975, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 159.975, \"end\": 160.236, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 160.236, \"end\": 160.936, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 160.936, \"end\": 161.417, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 161.417, \"end\": 161.737, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 161.737, \"end\": 161.917, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 161.917, \"end\": 162.097, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"充\", \"start\": 162.097, \"end\": 162.257, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 162.257, \"end\": 162.418, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 162.418, \"end\": 162.578, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 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0.989}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 165.801, \"end\": 166.001, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 166.001, \"end\": 166.261, \"score\": 0.777}, {\"word\": \"願\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 166.261, \"end\": 166.401, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 166.401, \"end\": 166.541, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 166.541, \"end\": 166.742, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 166.742, \"end\": 166.762, \"score\": 0.967}]}, {\"start\": 167.262, \"end\": 181.483, \"text\": \"那我們也擔心就是有醫院高的那這些收治的這些的處所是這些的醫療的這些的資源這些尤其是安全維護的這個措施是不是足夠那這部分我們也是要去比較擔心的或者一定是不夠啦\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 167.262, \"end\": 167.402, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 167.402, \"end\": 167.663, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 167.663, \"end\": 167.803, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"擔\"}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 167.803, \"end\": 167.963, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 167.963, 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\"整個處分裡面、監護處分裡面如何去做一個追蹤尤其是我剛提到那個部分你那個跨區那個整個跨區如何去安置的一個部分這個其實都是值得我們法務部要再去做更\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 697.318, \"end\": 697.759, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 697.759, \"end\": 698.039, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 698.039, \"end\": 698.64, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"監\"}, {\"word\": \"護\"}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 698.64, \"end\": 698.9, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 698.9, \"end\": 699.341, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 699.341, \"end\": 699.481, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"何\", \"start\": 699.481, \"end\": 699.641, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 699.641, \"end\": 700.102, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 700.102, \"end\": 700.342, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 700.342, \"end\": 700.643, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": 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個 競 技 場 本 來 就 是 時 空 見 慣 那 上 個 禮 拜 我 們 就 看 到 像 除 了 說 整 個 終 結 的 一 個 砍 人 事 件 以 外 讓 社 會 相 當 恐 慌 的 就 是 另 外 一 位 受 監 護 處 分 的 就 是\n\n3\n00:00:49,029 --> 00:01:12,401\n從 基 隆 某 間 醫 院 脫 逃 以 後 在 北 部 這 個 地 方 這 樣 流 竄 我 相 信 就 是 因 為 造 成 一 些 恐 慌 才 讓 臺 北 市 有 一 些 學 校 它 才 暫 停 的 一 個 開 放 幸 好 到 最 後 是 落 網 但 是 同 時 這 個 案 件 個 案 也 透 露 了 讓 國 人 去 意 識 到 說 我 們 整 個 監 護 的 一 個 處 分\n\n4\n00:01:14,392 --> 00:01:40,802\n到 底 哪 一 些 地 方 必 須 要 再 去 補 破 網 的 一 個 地 方 那 這 次 的 個 案 裡 面 你 說 從 法 院 依 殺 人 未 遂 去 判 處 三 年 然 後 在 執 行 刑 法 前 先 進 行 五 年 這 樣 的 一 個 監 護 你 全 案 定 驗 以 後 交 由 臺 北 地 檢 署 去 執 行 那 今 年 3 月 排 到 基 隆 某 精 神 醫 院 的 一 個 監 護 這 個 程 序 看 起 來 好 像 都 很 順 暢 但 是 社 會 上 很 多 案 例\n\n5\n00:01:42,645 --> 00:02:05,781\n看 起 來 其 實 不 像 我 們 所 看 到 的 這 樣 子 也 就 是 說 一 個 人 是 不 是 受 監 護 的 一 個 處 分 你 等 法 官 判 決 那 判 決 確 定 以 後 檢 察 官 再 按 照 這 個 情 況 去 找 適 合 的 一 個 處 遇 的 一 個 機 構 我 想 請 教 部 長 就 是 說 你 們 認 為 現 在 最 大 的 問 題 處 在 什 麼 地 方\n\n6\n00:02:08,293 --> 00:02:25,242\n目 前 我 認 為 最 大 的 問 題 就 是 因 為 監 護 處 的 確 是 要 醫 療 照 護 來 代 替 那 個 那 個 就 把 它 當 作 屬 性 把 它 界 定 在 病 人 的 這 個 這 個 主 體 但 是 因 為 我 們 現 在 醫 療 的 這 部 分 的 有\n\n7\n00:02:26,443 --> 00:02:46,762\n醫 療 處 所 的 這 邊 的 資 源 是 還 不 夠 的 那 而 且 最 主 要 就 是 有 意 要 做 這 些 有 管 理 監 護 執 行 監 護 收 治 監 護 處 分 的 這 些 的 醫 院 的 意 願 不 高 再 加 上 有 這 些 的 其 實 說 有 這 些 的 充 分 的 比 較 多 的 資 源 醫 院 這 部 分 我 沒 有 去 了 解 是 意 願 是 不 高 的\n\n8\n00:02:47,262 --> 00:03:01,483\n那 我 們 也 擔 心 就 是 有 醫 院 高 的 那 這 些 收 治 的 這 些 的 處 所 是 這 些 的 醫 療 的 這 些 的 資 源 這 些 尤 其 是 安 全 維 護 的 這 個 措 施 是 不 是 足 夠 那 這 部 分 我 們 也 是 要 去 比 較 擔 心 的 或 者 一 定 是 不 夠 啦\n\n9\n00:03:02,369 --> 00:03:29,363\n那 所 以 說 我 們 才 會 去 跟 有 形 成 的 統 籌 來 籌 設 精 神 司 法 精 神 病 房 醫 院 的 這 些 的 這 個 速 度 齁 這 個 速 度 其 實 齁 要 建 制 還 有 很 長 一 段 路 要 走 我 請 教 秘 書 長 就 是 說 秘 書 長 你 譬 如 說 法 官 就 下 一 個 判 決 下 完 了 以 後 啊 接 下 來 脫 離 法 院 啦 齁 是 是 是 依 你 們 所 看 到 的 你 們 認 為\n\n10\n00:03:31,687 --> 00:03:58,578\n我 們 檢 方 這 樣 的 一 個 執 行 你 有 沒 有 看 到 什 麼 樣 必 須 要 趕 快 這 個 網 把 補 起 來 的 地 方 我 舉 例 啊 假 設 這 個 案 例 啊 假 設 有 幾 個 案 例 是 在 媽 祖 媽 祖 受 刑 人 在 媽 祖 或 者 說 這 個 被 判 決 應 該 受 監 護 的 對 象 在 媽 祖 我 媽 祖 我 沒 有 部 長 你 媽 祖 只 有 檢 察 官 我 的 車 可 以 坐 到 一 個 年 嗎 一 個 檢 察 店 可 以 坐 到 一 個 年 嗎 對 不 對\n\n11\n00:04:00,816 --> 00:04:19,598\n那 你 要 人 要 送 到 哪 裡 ? 假 設 送 台 北 , 然 後 這 個 訪 視 , 然 後 這 個 要 去 追 蹤 , 這 受 監 護 人 , 一 個 地 檢 署 要 執 行 。 那 換 言 之 在 做 這 個 報 告 的 時 候 , 你 們 到 底 有 沒 有 什 麼 樣 一 個 全 盤 的 一 個 考 量 ? 我 先 聽 你 講 完 以 後 , 我 再 來 講 我 的 看 法 。\n\n12\n00:04:22,372 --> 00:04:34,689\n就 是 法 院 假 如 說 針 對 這 個 個 案 他 有 一 些 障 礙 的 話 那 會 認 為 說 宣 判 的 時 候 會 給 他 一 般 會 說 監 護 多 久 啦 監 護 多 久\n\n13\n00:04:37,025 --> 00:04:56,630\n那 這 個 在 接 下 來 就 是 判 決 之 後 的 執 行 就 是 會 請 我 們 檢 察 官 就 是 用 比 較 適 合 的 方 式 來 看 就 這 個 個 案 是 到 底 是 在 哪 邊 用 什 麼 方 式 來 執 行 會 比 較 適 合 秘 書 長 我 跟 你 講 檢 察 官 也 不 是 醫 生\n\n14\n00:05:00,391 --> 00:05:21,378\n媽 咪 精 神 科 醫 生 我 們 其 實 也 都 可 以 撿 來 關 太 多 太 多 的 一 個 責 任 但 到 底 這 個 怎 麼 辦 你 說 我 們 上 次 在 2 0 2 2 年 修 法 這 個 刑 法 8 7 條 把 原 本 監 護 期 間 5 年 增 訂 無 延 長 次 數 的 監 護 期 間 對 不 對 連 這 個 其 實 我 都 有 意 見 的 啦 但 是 後 來 為 了 補 這 個 整 個 社 會 安 全 網 我 手 是 舉 起 來 是 贊 成 的 啦 不 然 以 我 在\n\n15\n00:05:29,266 --> 00:05:54,941\n鄉 間 所 看 到 的 個 案 我 看 到 有 一 個 在 我 們 地 方 上 可 以 說 是 人 民 的 精 神 導 師 啊 導 師 啊 什 麼 人 有 痛 苦 啊 什 麼 人 家 庭 有 問 題 啊 什 麼 改 革 啊 都 要 找 他 告 解 都 要 找 他 這 樣 排 解 要 跟 他 說 完 之 後 他 就 這 樣 大 家 民 眾 就 很 高 興 那 些 大 名 的 主 委 有 一 天 啊 他 晚 上 來 拜 訪 我 拜 訪 我\n\n16\n00:05:58,376 --> 00:06:18,923\n崩 潰 了 , 大 哭 , 我 嚇 一 跳 。 他 是 鄉 民 的 神 , 怎 麼 可 以 對 我 這 樣 崩 潰 , 大 哭 。 他 說 我 的 孩 子 , 要 猥 褻 , 要 判 三 年 , 要 把 他 關 二 十 年 , 我 聽 到 說 , 網 告 有 可 能 , 這 個 猥 褻 也 有 可 能 。 但 是 我 第 一 個 想 到 的 就 是 監 護 處 分 , 都 要 依 啊 , 都 要 依 啊 。 他 的 孩 子 , 看 到 人 要 幫 忙 收 領 ,\n\n17\n00:06:29,599 --> 00:06:33,982\n社 會 安 全 網 不 補 起 來 又 不 行 可 是 這 一 種 又 你 一 下 子 你 刑 法 你 就 知 道 猥 褻 就 不 是 那 麼 高 嘛 可 是 呢 一 戒 一 監 護 處 分 以 後 啊\n\n18\n00:06:56,326 --> 00:06:57,767\n馬 祖 地 檢 署 馬 祖 地 區\n\n19\n00:07:20,089 --> 00:07:36,414\n馬 祖 只 有 那 個 那 個 他 醫 療 是 不 夠 的 不 夠 齁 是 啊 所 以 我 要 說 的 就 是 說 好 啦 你 現 在 司 法 精 神 病 院 大 家 都 希 望 要 經 濟 推 動 我 說 現 況 如 果 像 那 一 種\n\n20\n00:07:38,161 --> 00:08:02,272\n這 個 就 有 點 類 似 前 陣 子 在 講 新 北 市 那 個 鎧 鎧 案 一 樣 嘛 新 北 到 底 要 付 錢 給 新 北 而 已 啊 搞 不 好 在 照 顧 照 顧 機 構 要 出 洋 的 時 候 是 台 北 市 中 間 就 出 現 問 題 啦 那 如 果 說 你 今 天 是 媽 祖 地 檢 署 的 檢 察 官 你 本 來 一 個 月 要 去 看 一 次 的 兩 件 你 就 無 時 了 咧 媽 祖 你 沒 啊\n\n21\n00:08:05,945 --> 00:08:27,707\n如 果 你 放 在 台 北 呢 ? 假 設 那 個 受 監 護 處 分 的 人 是 在 松 德 呢 ? 所 以 監 裁 委 員 才 會 去 跟 你 們 講 說 , 你 們 這 個 跨 區 的 處 分 這 樣 的 一 個 安 置 的 問 題 , 你 們 會 出 現 很 大 的 問 題 。 那 第 一 個 , 今 天 我 們 搞 不 好 也 心 不 甘 情 不 願 了 。 今 天 我 們 講 說 , 你 為 什 麼 不 叫 我 來 ?\n\n22\n00:08:29,124 --> 00:08:40,159\n第 二 個 就 是 說 你 整 個 後 續 追 蹤 醫 療 的 一 個 困 難 還 有 整 個 社 區 的 一 個 機 制 你 怎 麼 樣 去 完 善 這 個 都 缺 乏 我 們 現 在 是 頭 痛 一 頭 腳 痛 一 腳\n\n23\n00:08:44,892 --> 00:08:44,932\n要 補 充\n\n24\n00:09:08,452 --> 00:09:34,519\n這 部 分 其 實 我 們 對 暫 時 安 置 跟 監 護 處 分 的 這 部 分 事 實 上 現 在 是 進 入 到 第 二 期 第 二 期 那 我 們 有 一 個 標 準 的 一 個 流 程 那 另 外 我 們 也 做 一 個 精 神 就 是 一 個 精 神 的 鑑 定 、 個 案 評 估 包 括 轉 嫌 其 實 這 些 都 是 我 們 有 完 善 的 一 個 做 一 個 措 施 了 那 這 邊 都 規 劃 好 了 那 我 們 希 望 最 主 要 還 是 能 夠\n\n25\n00:09:37,380 --> 00:09:51,530\n給 這 些 受 監 護 人 一 個 比 較 好 的 照 顧 。 另 外 , 如 果 是 在 轉 嫌 這 部 分 , 如 果 說 期 滿 轉 嫌 這 部 分 , 我 們 也 可 以 結 合 社 會 警 政 、 衛 政 、 這 些 勞 動 的 等 等 , 還 有 更 深 的 這 邊 做 一 個 好 的 銜 接 , 不 要 讓 它 漏 接 了 。\n\n26\n00:09:52,867 --> 00:10:13,314\n其 實 怎 麼 樣 去 建 制 比 較 完 善 的 一 個 受 案 的 一 個 制 度 還 有 去 追 蹤 這 個 流 程 我 相 信 這 個 是 社 會 大 眾 期 待 的 因 為 社 會 大 眾 認 為 說 我 不 想 陷 於 這 樣 的 一 個 恐 懼 啊 如 果 說 打 擊 犯 罪 或 者 司 法 審 判 司 法 人 員 要 審 判 我 想 你 們 都 做 得 到 啦 打 擊 犯 罪 不 中 你 們 都 做 得 到 啦 但 是 你 看 澳 部 要 管 的 事 情 就 是 這 麼 多\n\n27\n00:10:19,436 --> 00:10:40,320\n這 個 也 是 你 的 業 務 的 一 環 我 們 也 期 待 你 要 重 拾 國 人 對 整 個 司 法 制 度 的 一 個 信 心 連 這 個 讓 國 人 免 於 恐 懼 不 然 現 在 你 的 責 任 呢 ? 所 以 不 是 只 有 前 端 打 擊 犯 罪 而 已 連 後 端 這 一 些 社 會 安 全 網 你 怎 麼 樣 去 把 它 做 一 個 建 制 所 以 我 是 認 為 因 為 部 長 剛 上 任 我 沒 有 要 求 太 多 但 至 少\n\n28\n00:10:47,321 --> 00:11:14,813\n我 看 連 監 察 院 跟 你 們 所 提 出 來 這 幾 項 那 個 確 實 也 是 重 點 你 們 特 別 要 再 加 強 一 下 因 為 這 些 社 會 每 一 個 地 方 都 會 碰 到 大 家 不 願 意 把 它 讓 它 浮 上 檯 面 只 有 個 案 出 現 的 時 候 大 家 才 去 討 論 否 則 這 個 問 題 很 大 我 也 不 能 去 講 說 整 個 社 會 安 全 網 的 一 個 建 制 裡 面 碰 到 一 些 個 案 就 會 覺 得 說 這 對 人 身 自 由 的 一 個 剝 奪\n\n29\n00:11:16,053 --> 00:11:31,646\n各 案 常 常 會 跟 這 個 社 會 安 全 網 大 家 這 整 個 制 度 裡 面 會 產 生 有 衝 突 的 一 個 地 方 怎 麼 樣 去 調 和 啦 但 重 點 是 說 確 實 是 人 力 、 物 力 剛 我 提 案 的 、 首 案 的 這 個 整 個 機 制 還 有 整 個 個 案 事 後 的 監 獄 處 那 個 整 個\n\n30\n00:11:37,318 --> 00:11:54,302\n整 個 處 分 裡 面 、 監 護 處 分 裡 面 如 何 去 做 一 個 追 蹤 尤 其 是 我 剛 提 到 那 個 部 分 你 那 個 跨 區 那 個 整 個 跨 區 如 何 去 安 置 的 一 個 部 分 這 個 其 實 都 是 值 得 我 們 法 務 部 要 再 去 做 更\n\n31\n00:11:54,942 --> 00:12:21,233\n這 部 分 公 務 員 報 告 我 們 其 實 就 是 用 分 流 的 一 個 方 式 來 分 級 的 一 個 管 理 嘛 那 像 我 們 司 法 精 神 病 院 的 話 醫 院 病 房 的 話 其 實 我 們 那 個 收 治 的 一 個 強 度 照 顧 的 強 度 會 比 較 強 因 為 的 確 是 對 這 些 比 較 有 中 高 度 社 會 危 險 性 的 這 些 受 監 護 人 我 們 要 比 較 好 的 一 個 照 顧 那 這 次 有 比 較 多 的 一 些 的 資 源 給 他 那 如 果 說 比 較 輕 的 話 那 我 們 就 是 甚 至 門 診 就 可 以 了\n\n32\n00:12:21,493 --> 00:12:24,154\n我 相 信 這 一 塊 在 立 法 院 大 家 會 給 你 們 支 持 啦 但 是 你 們 也 要 做 出 更 好 的 成 績 我 們 最 怕 的 就 是 說 大 家 跟 你 們 集 齊\n\n33\n00:12:49,942 --> 00:12:50,102\n好 謝 謝 委 員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5982\t6843\t司法院秘書長\n24622\t47929\t我要來先就教我們鄭部長我想在上個禮拜台灣算其實是不太平靜當然不是只有我們立法院立法院這個競技場本來就是時空見慣那上個禮拜我們就看到像除了說整個終結的一個砍人事件以外讓社會相當恐慌的就是另外一位受監護處分的就是\n49029\t72401\t從基隆某間醫院脫逃以後在北部這個地方這樣流竄我相信就是因為造成一些恐慌才讓臺北市有一些學校它才暫停的一個開放幸好到最後是落網但是同時這個案件 個案也透露了讓國人去意識到說我們整個監護的一個處分\n74392\t100802\t到底哪一些地方必須要再去補破網的一個地方那這次的個案裡面你說從法院依殺人未遂去判處三年然後在執行刑法前先進行五年這樣的一個監護你全案定驗以後交由臺北地檢署去執行那今年3月排到基隆某精神醫院的一個監護這個程序看起來好像都很順暢但是社會上很多案例\n102645\t125781\t看起來其實不像我們所看到的這樣子也就是說一個人是不是受監護的一個處分你等法官判決那判決確定以後檢察官再按照這個情況去找適合的一個處遇的一個機構我想請教部長就是說你們認為現在最大的問題處在什麼地方\n128293\t145242\t目前我認為最大的問題就是因為監護處的確是要醫療照護來代替那個那個就把它當作屬性把它界定在病人的這個這個主體但是因為我們現在醫療的這部分的有\n146443\t166762\t醫療處所的這邊的資源是還不夠的那而且最主要就是有意要做這些有管理監護執行監護收治監護處分的這些的醫院的意願不高再加上有這些的其實說有這些的充分的比較多的資源醫院這部分我沒有去了解是意願是不高的\n167262\t181483\t那我們也擔心就是有醫院高的那這些收治的這些的處所是這些的醫療的這些的資源這些尤其是安全維護的這個措施是不是足夠那這部分我們也是要去比較擔心的或者一定是不夠啦\n182369\t209363\t那所以說我們才會去跟有形成的統籌來籌設精神司法精神病房醫院的這些的這個速度齁 這個速度其實齁要建制還有很長一段路要走我請教秘書長就是說秘書長你譬如說法官就下一個判決下完了以後啊接下來脫離法院啦齁是是是依你們所看到的你們認為\n211687\t238578\t我們檢方這樣的一個執行你有沒有看到什麼樣必須要趕快這個網把補起來的地方我舉例啊假設這個案例啊假設有幾個案例是在媽祖媽祖受刑人在媽祖或者說這個被判決應該受監護的對象在媽祖我媽祖我沒有部長你媽祖只有檢察官我的車可以坐到一個年嗎一個檢察店可以坐到一個年嗎對不對\n240816\t259598\t那你要人要送到哪裡?假設送台北,然後這個訪視,然後這個要去追蹤,這受監護人,一個地檢署要執行。那換言之在做這個報告的時候,你們到底有沒有什麼樣一個全盤的一個考量?我先聽你講完以後,我再來講我的看法。\n262372\t274689\t就是法院假如說針對這個個案他有一些障礙的話那會認為說宣判的時候會給他一般會說監護多久啦監護多久\n277025\t296630\t那這個在接下來就是判決之後的執行就是會請我們檢察官就是用比較適合的方式來看就這個個案是到底是在哪邊用什麼方式來執行會比較適合秘書長我跟你講檢察官也不是醫生\n300391\t321378\t媽咪精神科醫生我們其實也都可以撿來關太多太多的一個責任但到底這個怎麼辦你說我們上次在2022年修法這個刑法87條把原本監護期間5年增訂無延長次數的監護期間對不對連這個其實我都有意見的啦但是後來為了補這個整個社會安全網我手是舉起來是贊成的啦不然以我在\n329266\t354941\t鄉間所看到的個案我看到有一個在我們地方上可以說是人民的精神導師啊導師啊什麼人有痛苦啊什麼人家庭有問題啊什麼改革啊都要找他告解都要找他這樣排解要跟他說完之後他就這樣大家民眾就很高興那些大名的主委有一天啊他晚上來拜訪我拜訪我\n358376\t378923\t崩潰了,大哭,我嚇一跳。他是鄉民的神,怎麼可以對我這樣崩潰,大哭。他說我的孩子,要猥褻,要判三年,要把他關二十年,我聽到說,網告有可能,這個猥褻也有可能。但是我第一個想到的就是監護處分,都要依啊,都要依啊。他的孩子,看到人要幫忙收領,\n389599\t393982\t社會安全網不補起來又不行可是這一種又你一下子你刑法你就知道猥褻就不是那麼高嘛可是呢一戒一監護處分以後啊\n416326\t417767\t馬祖地檢署 馬祖地區\n440089\t456414\t馬祖只有那個那個他醫療是不夠的不夠齁是啊所以我要說的就是說好啦你現在司法精神病院大家都希望要經濟推動我說現況如果像那一種\n458161\t482272\t這個就有點類似前陣子在講新北市那個鎧鎧案一樣嘛 新北 到底要付錢給新北而已啊搞不好在照顧照顧機構 要出洋的時候是台北市 中間就出現問題啦那如果說你今天是媽祖地檢署的檢察官 你本來一個月要去看一次的兩件你就無時了咧 媽祖你沒啊\n485945\t507707\t如果你放在台北呢?假設那個受監護處分的人是在松德呢?所以監裁委員才會去跟你們講說,你們這個跨區的處分這樣的一個安置的問題,你們會出現很大的問題。那第一個,今天我們搞不好也心不甘情不願了。今天我們講說,你為什麼不叫我來?\n509124\t520159\t第二個就是說你整個後續追蹤醫療的一個困難還有整個社區的一個機制你怎麼樣去完善這個都缺乏我們現在是頭痛一頭腳痛一腳\n524892\t524932\t要補充\n548452\t574519\t這部分其實我們對暫時安置跟監護處分的這部分事實上現在是進入到第二期第二期那我們有一個標準的一個流程那另外我們也做一個精神就是一個精神的鑑定、個案評估包括轉嫌其實這些都是我們有完善的一個做一個措施了那這邊都規劃好了那我們希望最主要還是能夠\n577380\t591530\t給這些受監護人一個比較好的照顧。另外,如果是在轉嫌這部分,如果說期滿轉嫌這部分,我們也可以結合社會警政、衛政、這些勞動的等等,還有更深的這邊做一個好的銜接,不要讓它漏接了。\n592867\t613314\t其實怎麼樣去建制比較完善的一個受案的一個制度還有去追蹤這個流程我相信這個是社會大眾期待的因為社會大眾認為說我不想陷於這樣的一個恐懼啊如果說打擊犯罪或者司法審判司法人員要審判 我想你們都做得到啦打擊犯罪不中你們都做得到啦但是你看澳部要管的事情就是這麼多\n619436\t640320\t這個也是你的業務的一環我們也期待你要重拾國人對整個司法制度的一個信心連這個讓國人免於恐懼不然現在你的責任呢?所以不是只有前端打擊犯罪而已連後端這一些社會安全網你怎麼樣去把它做一個建制所以我是認為因為部長剛上任我沒有要求太多但至少\n647321\t674813\t我看連監察院跟你們所提出來這幾項那個確實也是重點你們特別要再加強一下因為這些社會每一個地方都會碰到大家不願意把它讓它浮上檯面只有個案出現的時候大家才去討論否則這個問題很大我也不能去講說整個社會安全網的一個建制裡面碰到一些個案就會覺得說這對人身自由的一個剝奪\n676053\t691646\t各案常常會跟這個社會安全網大家這整個制度裡面會產生有衝突的一個地方怎麼樣去調和啦但重點是說確實是人力、物力剛我提案的、首案的這個整個機制還有整個個案事後的監獄處那個整個\n697318\t714302\t整個處分裡面、監護處分裡面如何去做一個追蹤尤其是我剛提到那個部分你那個跨區那個整個跨區如何去安置的一個部分這個其實都是值得我們法務部要再去做更\n714942\t741233\t這部分公務員報告我們其實就是用分流的一個方式來分級的一個管理嘛那像我們司法精神病院的話醫院病房的話其實我們那個收治的一個強度照顧的強度會比較強因為的確是對這些比較有中高度社會危險性的這些受監護人我們要比較好的一個照顧那這次有比較多的一些的資源給他那如果說比較輕的話那我們就是甚至門診就可以了\n741493\t744154\t我相信這一塊在立法院大家會給你們支持啦但是你們也要做出更好的成績我們最怕的就是說大家跟你們集齊\n769942\t770102\t好 謝謝委員\n","txt":"司法院秘書長\n我要來先就教我們鄭部長我想在上個禮拜台灣算其實是不太平靜當然不是只有我們立法院立法院這個競技場本來就是時空見慣那上個禮拜我們就看到像除了說整個終結的一個砍人事件以外讓社會相當恐慌的就是另外一位受監護處分的就是\n從基隆某間醫院脫逃以後在北部這個地方這樣流竄我相信就是因為造成一些恐慌才讓臺北市有一些學校它才暫停的一個開放幸好到最後是落網但是同時這個案件 個案也透露了讓國人去意識到說我們整個監護的一個處分\n到底哪一些地方必須要再去補破網的一個地方那這次的個案裡面你說從法院依殺人未遂去判處三年然後在執行刑法前先進行五年這樣的一個監護你全案定驗以後交由臺北地檢署去執行那今年3月排到基隆某精神醫院的一個監護這個程序看起來好像都很順暢但是社會上很多案例\n看起來其實不像我們所看到的這樣子也就是說一個人是不是受監護的一個處分你等法官判決那判決確定以後檢察官再按照這個情況去找適合的一個處遇的一個機構我想請教部長就是說你們認為現在最大的問題處在什麼地方\n目前我認為最大的問題就是因為監護處的確是要醫療照護來代替那個那個就把它當作屬性把它界定在病人的這個這個主體但是因為我們現在醫療的這部分的有\n醫療處所的這邊的資源是還不夠的那而且最主要就是有意要做這些有管理監護執行監護收治監護處分的這些的醫院的意願不高再加上有這些的其實說有這些的充分的比較多的資源醫院這部分我沒有去了解是意願是不高的\n那我們也擔心就是有醫院高的那這些收治的這些的處所是這些的醫療的這些的資源這些尤其是安全維護的這個措施是不是足夠那這部分我們也是要去比較擔心的或者一定是不夠啦\n那所以說我們才會去跟有形成的統籌來籌設精神司法精神病房醫院的這些的這個速度齁 這個速度其實齁要建制還有很長一段路要走我請教秘書長就是說秘書長你譬如說法官就下一個判決下完了以後啊接下來脫離法院啦齁是是是依你們所看到的你們認為\n我們檢方這樣的一個執行你有沒有看到什麼樣必須要趕快這個網把補起來的地方我舉例啊假設這個案例啊假設有幾個案例是在媽祖媽祖受刑人在媽祖或者說這個被判決應該受監護的對象在媽祖我媽祖我沒有部長你媽祖只有檢察官我的車可以坐到一個年嗎一個檢察店可以坐到一個年嗎對不對\n那你要人要送到哪裡?假設送台北,然後這個訪視,然後這個要去追蹤,這受監護人,一個地檢署要執行。那換言之在做這個報告的時候,你們到底有沒有什麼樣一個全盤的一個考量?我先聽你講完以後,我再來講我的看法。\n就是法院假如說針對這個個案他有一些障礙的話那會認為說宣判的時候會給他一般會說監護多久啦監護多久\n那這個在接下來就是判決之後的執行就是會請我們檢察官就是用比較適合的方式來看就這個個案是到底是在哪邊用什麼方式來執行會比較適合秘書長我跟你講檢察官也不是醫生\n媽咪精神科醫生我們其實也都可以撿來關太多太多的一個責任但到底這個怎麼辦你說我們上次在2022年修法這個刑法87條把原本監護期間5年增訂無延長次數的監護期間對不對連這個其實我都有意見的啦但是後來為了補這個整個社會安全網我手是舉起來是贊成的啦不然以我在\n鄉間所看到的個案我看到有一個在我們地方上可以說是人民的精神導師啊導師啊什麼人有痛苦啊什麼人家庭有問題啊什麼改革啊都要找他告解都要找他這樣排解要跟他說完之後他就這樣大家民眾就很高興那些大名的主委有一天啊他晚上來拜訪我拜訪我\n崩潰了,大哭,我嚇一跳。他是鄉民的神,怎麼可以對我這樣崩潰,大哭。他說我的孩子,要猥褻,要判三年,要把他關二十年,我聽到說,網告有可能,這個猥褻也有可能。但是我第一個想到的就是監護處分,都要依啊,都要依啊。他的孩子,看到人要幫忙收領,\n社會安全網不補起來又不行可是這一種又你一下子你刑法你就知道猥褻就不是那麼高嘛可是呢一戒一監護處分以後啊\n馬祖地檢署 馬祖地區\n馬祖只有那個那個他醫療是不夠的不夠齁是啊所以我要說的就是說好啦你現在司法精神病院大家都希望要經濟推動我說現況如果像那一種\n這個就有點類似前陣子在講新北市那個鎧鎧案一樣嘛 新北 到底要付錢給新北而已啊搞不好在照顧照顧機構 要出洋的時候是台北市 中間就出現問題啦那如果說你今天是媽祖地檢署的檢察官 你本來一個月要去看一次的兩件你就無時了咧 媽祖你沒啊\n如果你放在台北呢?假設那個受監護處分的人是在松德呢?所以監裁委員才會去跟你們講說,你們這個跨區的處分這樣的一個安置的問題,你們會出現很大的問題。那第一個,今天我們搞不好也心不甘情不願了。今天我們講說,你為什麼不叫我來?\n第二個就是說你整個後續追蹤醫療的一個困難還有整個社區的一個機制你怎麼樣去完善這個都缺乏我們現在是頭痛一頭腳痛一腳\n要補充\n這部分其實我們對暫時安置跟監護處分的這部分事實上現在是進入到第二期第二期那我們有一個標準的一個流程那另外我們也做一個精神就是一個精神的鑑定、個案評估包括轉嫌其實這些都是我們有完善的一個做一個措施了那這邊都規劃好了那我們希望最主要還是能夠\n給這些受監護人一個比較好的照顧。另外,如果是在轉嫌這部分,如果說期滿轉嫌這部分,我們也可以結合社會警政、衛政、這些勞動的等等,還有更深的這邊做一個好的銜接,不要讓它漏接了。\n其實怎麼樣去建制比較完善的一個受案的一個制度還有去追蹤這個流程我相信這個是社會大眾期待的因為社會大眾認為說我不想陷於這樣的一個恐懼啊如果說打擊犯罪或者司法審判司法人員要審判 我想你們都做得到啦打擊犯罪不中你們都做得到啦但是你看澳部要管的事情就是這麼多\n這個也是你的業務的一環我們也期待你要重拾國人對整個司法制度的一個信心連這個讓國人免於恐懼不然現在你的責任呢?所以不是只有前端打擊犯罪而已連後端這一些社會安全網你怎麼樣去把它做一個建制所以我是認為因為部長剛上任我沒有要求太多但至少\n我看連監察院跟你們所提出來這幾項那個確實也是重點你們特別要再加強一下因為這些社會每一個地方都會碰到大家不願意把它讓它浮上檯面只有個案出現的時候大家才去討論否則這個問題很大我也不能去講說整個社會安全網的一個建制裡面碰到一些個案就會覺得說這對人身自由的一個剝奪\n各案常常會跟這個社會安全網大家這整個制度裡面會產生有衝突的一個地方怎麼樣去調和啦但重點是說確實是人力、物力剛我提案的、首案的這個整個機制還有整個個案事後的監獄處那個整個\n整個處分裡面、監護處分裡面如何去做一個追蹤尤其是我剛提到那個部分你那個跨區那個整個跨區如何去安置的一個部分這個其實都是值得我們法務部要再去做更\n這部分公務員報告我們其實就是用分流的一個方式來分級的一個管理嘛那像我們司法精神病院的話醫院病房的話其實我們那個收治的一個強度照顧的強度會比較強因為的確是對這些比較有中高度社會危險性的這些受監護人我們要比較好的一個照顧那這次有比較多的一些的資源給他那如果說比較輕的話那我們就是甚至門診就可以了\n我相信這一塊在立法院大家會給你們支持啦但是你們也要做出更好的成績我們最怕的就是說大家跟你們集齊\n好 謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.982 --> 00:06.843\n司 法 院 秘 書 長\n\n00:24.622 --> 00:47.929\n我 要 來 先 就 教 我 們 鄭 部 長 我 想 在 上 個 禮 拜 台 灣 算 其 實 是 不 太 平 靜 當 然 不 是 只 有 我 們 立 法 院 立 法 院 這 個 競 技 場 本 來 就 是 時 空 見 慣 那 上 個 禮 拜 我 們 就 看 到 像 除 了 說 整 個 終 結 的 一 個 砍 人 事 件 以 外 讓 社 會 相 當 恐 慌 的 就 是 另 外 一 位 受 監 護 處 分 的 就 是\n\n00:49.029 --> 01:12.401\n從 基 隆 某 間 醫 院 脫 逃 以 後 在 北 部 這 個 地 方 這 樣 流 竄 我 相 信 就 是 因 為 造 成 一 些 恐 慌 才 讓 臺 北 市 有 一 些 學 校 它 才 暫 停 的 一 個 開 放 幸 好 到 最 後 是 落 網 但 是 同 時 這 個 案 件 個 案 也 透 露 了 讓 國 人 去 意 識 到 說 我 們 整 個 監 護 的 一 個 處 分\n\n01:14.392 --> 01:40.802\n到 底 哪 一 些 地 方 必 須 要 再 去 補 破 網 的 一 個 地 方 那 這 次 的 個 案 裡 面 你 說 從 法 院 依 殺 人 未 遂 去 判 處 三 年 然 後 在 執 行 刑 法 前 先 進 行 五 年 這 樣 的 一 個 監 護 你 全 案 定 驗 以 後 交 由 臺 北 地 檢 署 去 執 行 那 今 年 3 月 排 到 基 隆 某 精 神 醫 院 的 一 個 監 護 這 個 程 序 看 起 來 好 像 都 很 順 暢 但 是 社 會 上 很 多 案 例\n\n01:42.645 --> 02:05.781\n看 起 來 其 實 不 像 我 們 所 看 到 的 這 樣 子 也 就 是 說 一 個 人 是 不 是 受 監 護 的 一 個 處 分 你 等 法 官 判 決 那 判 決 確 定 以 後 檢 察 官 再 按 照 這 個 情 況 去 找 適 合 的 一 個 處 遇 的 一 個 機 構 我 想 請 教 部 長 就 是 說 你 們 認 為 現 在 最 大 的 問 題 處 在 什 麼 地 方\n\n02:08.293 --> 02:25.242\n目 前 我 認 為 最 大 的 問 題 就 是 因 為 監 護 處 的 確 是 要 醫 療 照 護 來 代 替 那 個 那 個 就 把 它 當 作 屬 性 把 它 界 定 在 病 人 的 這 個 這 個 主 體 但 是 因 為 我 們 現 在 醫 療 的 這 部 分 的 有\n\n02:26.443 --> 02:46.762\n醫 療 處 所 的 這 邊 的 資 源 是 還 不 夠 的 那 而 且 最 主 要 就 是 有 意 要 做 這 些 有 管 理 監 護 執 行 監 護 收 治 監 護 處 分 的 這 些 的 醫 院 的 意 願 不 高 再 加 上 有 這 些 的 其 實 說 有 這 些 的 充 分 的 比 較 多 的 資 源 醫 院 這 部 分 我 沒 有 去 了 解 是 意 願 是 不 高 的\n\n02:47.262 --> 03:01.483\n那 我 們 也 擔 心 就 是 有 醫 院 高 的 那 這 些 收 治 的 這 些 的 處 所 是 這 些 的 醫 療 的 這 些 的 資 源 這 些 尤 其 是 安 全 維 護 的 這 個 措 施 是 不 是 足 夠 那 這 部 分 我 們 也 是 要 去 比 較 擔 心 的 或 者 一 定 是 不 夠 啦\n\n03:02.369 --> 03:29.363\n那 所 以 說 我 們 才 會 去 跟 有 形 成 的 統 籌 來 籌 設 精 神 司 法 精 神 病 房 醫 院 的 這 些 的 這 個 速 度 齁 這 個 速 度 其 實 齁 要 建 制 還 有 很 長 一 段 路 要 走 我 請 教 秘 書 長 就 是 說 秘 書 長 你 譬 如 說 法 官 就 下 一 個 判 決 下 完 了 以 後 啊 接 下 來 脫 離 法 院 啦 齁 是 是 是 依 你 們 所 看 到 的 你 們 認 為\n\n03:31.687 --> 03:58.578\n我 們 檢 方 這 樣 的 一 個 執 行 你 有 沒 有 看 到 什 麼 樣 必 須 要 趕 快 這 個 網 把 補 起 來 的 地 方 我 舉 例 啊 假 設 這 個 案 例 啊 假 設 有 幾 個 案 例 是 在 媽 祖 媽 祖 受 刑 人 在 媽 祖 或 者 說 這 個 被 判 決 應 該 受 監 護 的 對 象 在 媽 祖 我 媽 祖 我 沒 有 部 長 你 媽 祖 只 有 檢 察 官 我 的 車 可 以 坐 到 一 個 年 嗎 一 個 檢 察 店 可 以 坐 到 一 個 年 嗎 對 不 對\n\n04:00.816 --> 04:19.598\n那 你 要 人 要 送 到 哪 裡 ? 假 設 送 台 北 , 然 後 這 個 訪 視 , 然 後 這 個 要 去 追 蹤 , 這 受 監 護 人 , 一 個 地 檢 署 要 執 行 。 那 換 言 之 在 做 這 個 報 告 的 時 候 , 你 們 到 底 有 沒 有 什 麼 樣 一 個 全 盤 的 一 個 考 量 ? 我 先 聽 你 講 完 以 後 , 我 再 來 講 我 的 看 法 。\n\n04:22.372 --> 04:34.689\n就 是 法 院 假 如 說 針 對 這 個 個 案 他 有 一 些 障 礙 的 話 那 會 認 為 說 宣 判 的 時 候 會 給 他 一 般 會 說 監 護 多 久 啦 監 護 多 久\n\n04:37.025 --> 04:56.630\n那 這 個 在 接 下 來 就 是 判 決 之 後 的 執 行 就 是 會 請 我 們 檢 察 官 就 是 用 比 較 適 合 的 方 式 來 看 就 這 個 個 案 是 到 底 是 在 哪 邊 用 什 麼 方 式 來 執 行 會 比 較 適 合 秘 書 長 我 跟 你 講 檢 察 官 也 不 是 醫 生\n\n05:00.391 --> 05:21.378\n媽 咪 精 神 科 醫 生 我 們 其 實 也 都 可 以 撿 來 關 太 多 太 多 的 一 個 責 任 但 到 底 這 個 怎 麼 辦 你 說 我 們 上 次 在 2 0 2 2 年 修 法 這 個 刑 法 8 7 條 把 原 本 監 護 期 間 5 年 增 訂 無 延 長 次 數 的 監 護 期 間 對 不 對 連 這 個 其 實 我 都 有 意 見 的 啦 但 是 後 來 為 了 補 這 個 整 個 社 會 安 全 網 我 手 是 舉 起 來 是 贊 成 的 啦 不 然 以 我 在\n\n05:29.266 --> 05:54.941\n鄉 間 所 看 到 的 個 案 我 看 到 有 一 個 在 我 們 地 方 上 可 以 說 是 人 民 的 精 神 導 師 啊 導 師 啊 什 麼 人 有 痛 苦 啊 什 麼 人 家 庭 有 問 題 啊 什 麼 改 革 啊 都 要 找 他 告 解 都 要 找 他 這 樣 排 解 要 跟 他 說 完 之 後 他 就 這 樣 大 家 民 眾 就 很 高 興 那 些 大 名 的 主 委 有 一 天 啊 他 晚 上 來 拜 訪 我 拜 訪 我\n\n05:58.376 --> 06:18.923\n崩 潰 了 , 大 哭 , 我 嚇 一 跳 。 他 是 鄉 民 的 神 , 怎 麼 可 以 對 我 這 樣 崩 潰 , 大 哭 。 他 說 我 的 孩 子 , 要 猥 褻 , 要 判 三 年 , 要 把 他 關 二 十 年 , 我 聽 到 說 , 網 告 有 可 能 , 這 個 猥 褻 也 有 可 能 。 但 是 我 第 一 個 想 到 的 就 是 監 護 處 分 , 都 要 依 啊 , 都 要 依 啊 。 他 的 孩 子 , 看 到 人 要 幫 忙 收 領 ,\n\n06:29.599 --> 06:33.982\n社 會 安 全 網 不 補 起 來 又 不 行 可 是 這 一 種 又 你 一 下 子 你 刑 法 你 就 知 道 猥 褻 就 不 是 那 麼 高 嘛 可 是 呢 一 戒 一 監 護 處 分 以 後 啊\n\n06:56.326 --> 06:57.767\n馬 祖 地 檢 署 馬 祖 地 區\n\n07:20.089 --> 07:36.414\n馬 祖 只 有 那 個 那 個 他 醫 療 是 不 夠 的 不 夠 齁 是 啊 所 以 我 要 說 的 就 是 說 好 啦 你 現 在 司 法 精 神 病 院 大 家 都 希 望 要 經 濟 推 動 我 說 現 況 如 果 像 那 一 種\n\n07:38.161 --> 08:02.272\n這 個 就 有 點 類 似 前 陣 子 在 講 新 北 市 那 個 鎧 鎧 案 一 樣 嘛 新 北 到 底 要 付 錢 給 新 北 而 已 啊 搞 不 好 在 照 顧 照 顧 機 構 要 出 洋 的 時 候 是 台 北 市 中 間 就 出 現 問 題 啦 那 如 果 說 你 今 天 是 媽 祖 地 檢 署 的 檢 察 官 你 本 來 一 個 月 要 去 看 一 次 的 兩 件 你 就 無 時 了 咧 媽 祖 你 沒 啊\n\n08:05.945 --> 08:27.707\n如 果 你 放 在 台 北 呢 ? 假 設 那 個 受 監 護 處 分 的 人 是 在 松 德 呢 ? 所 以 監 裁 委 員 才 會 去 跟 你 們 講 說 , 你 們 這 個 跨 區 的 處 分 這 樣 的 一 個 安 置 的 問 題 , 你 們 會 出 現 很 大 的 問 題 。 那 第 一 個 , 今 天 我 們 搞 不 好 也 心 不 甘 情 不 願 了 。 今 天 我 們 講 說 , 你 為 什 麼 不 叫 我 來 ?\n\n08:29.124 --> 08:40.159\n第 二 個 就 是 說 你 整 個 後 續 追 蹤 醫 療 的 一 個 困 難 還 有 整 個 社 區 的 一 個 機 制 你 怎 麼 樣 去 完 善 這 個 都 缺 乏 我 們 現 在 是 頭 痛 一 頭 腳 痛 一 腳\n\n08:44.892 --> 08:44.932\n要 補 充\n\n09:08.452 --> 09:34.519\n這 部 分 其 實 我 們 對 暫 時 安 置 跟 監 護 處 分 的 這 部 分 事 實 上 現 在 是 進 入 到 第 二 期 第 二 期 那 我 們 有 一 個 標 準 的 一 個 流 程 那 另 外 我 們 也 做 一 個 精 神 就 是 一 個 精 神 的 鑑 定 、 個 案 評 估 包 括 轉 嫌 其 實 這 些 都 是 我 們 有 完 善 的 一 個 做 一 個 措 施 了 那 這 邊 都 規 劃 好 了 那 我 們 希 望 最 主 要 還 是 能 夠\n\n09:37.380 --> 09:51.530\n給 這 些 受 監 護 人 一 個 比 較 好 的 照 顧 。 另 外 , 如 果 是 在 轉 嫌 這 部 分 , 如 果 說 期 滿 轉 嫌 這 部 分 , 我 們 也 可 以 結 合 社 會 警 政 、 衛 政 、 這 些 勞 動 的 等 等 , 還 有 更 深 的 這 邊 做 一 個 好 的 銜 接 , 不 要 讓 它 漏 接 了 。\n\n09:52.867 --> 10:13.314\n其 實 怎 麼 樣 去 建 制 比 較 完 善 的 一 個 受 案 的 一 個 制 度 還 有 去 追 蹤 這 個 流 程 我 相 信 這 個 是 社 會 大 眾 期 待 的 因 為 社 會 大 眾 認 為 說 我 不 想 陷 於 這 樣 的 一 個 恐 懼 啊 如 果 說 打 擊 犯 罪 或 者 司 法 審 判 司 法 人 員 要 審 判 我 想 你 們 都 做 得 到 啦 打 擊 犯 罪 不 中 你 們 都 做 得 到 啦 但 是 你 看 澳 部 要 管 的 事 情 就 是 這 麼 多\n\n10:19.436 --> 10:40.320\n這 個 也 是 你 的 業 務 的 一 環 我 們 也 期 待 你 要 重 拾 國 人 對 整 個 司 法 制 度 的 一 個 信 心 連 這 個 讓 國 人 免 於 恐 懼 不 然 現 在 你 的 責 任 呢 ? 所 以 不 是 只 有 前 端 打 擊 犯 罪 而 已 連 後 端 這 一 些 社 會 安 全 網 你 怎 麼 樣 去 把 它 做 一 個 建 制 所 以 我 是 認 為 因 為 部 長 剛 上 任 我 沒 有 要 求 太 多 但 至 少\n\n10:47.321 --> 11:14.813\n我 看 連 監 察 院 跟 你 們 所 提 出 來 這 幾 項 那 個 確 實 也 是 重 點 你 們 特 別 要 再 加 強 一 下 因 為 這 些 社 會 每 一 個 地 方 都 會 碰 到 大 家 不 願 意 把 它 讓 它 浮 上 檯 面 只 有 個 案 出 現 的 時 候 大 家 才 去 討 論 否 則 這 個 問 題 很 大 我 也 不 能 去 講 說 整 個 社 會 安 全 網 的 一 個 建 制 裡 面 碰 到 一 些 個 案 就 會 覺 得 說 這 對 人 身 自 由 的 一 個 剝 奪\n\n11:16.053 --> 11:31.646\n各 案 常 常 會 跟 這 個 社 會 安 全 網 大 家 這 整 個 制 度 裡 面 會 產 生 有 衝 突 的 一 個 地 方 怎 麼 樣 去 調 和 啦 但 重 點 是 說 確 實 是 人 力 、 物 力 剛 我 提 案 的 、 首 案 的 這 個 整 個 機 制 還 有 整 個 個 案 事 後 的 監 獄 處 那 個 整 個\n\n11:37.318 --> 11:54.302\n整 個 處 分 裡 面 、 監 護 處 分 裡 面 如 何 去 做 一 個 追 蹤 尤 其 是 我 剛 提 到 那 個 部 分 你 那 個 跨 區 那 個 整 個 跨 區 如 何 去 安 置 的 一 個 部 分 這 個 其 實 都 是 值 得 我 們 法 務 部 要 再 去 做 更\n\n11:54.942 --> 12:21.233\n這 部 分 公 務 員 報 告 我 們 其 實 就 是 用 分 流 的 一 個 方 式 來 分 級 的 一 個 管 理 嘛 那 像 我 們 司 法 精 神 病 院 的 話 醫 院 病 房 的 話 其 實 我 們 那 個 收 治 的 一 個 強 度 照 顧 的 強 度 會 比 較 強 因 為 的 確 是 對 這 些 比 較 有 中 高 度 社 會 危 險 性 的 這 些 受 監 護 人 我 們 要 比 較 好 的 一 個 照 顧 那 這 次 有 比 較 多 的 一 些 的 資 源 給 他 那 如 果 說 比 較 輕 的 話 那 我 們 就 是 甚 至 門 診 就 可 以 了\n\n12:21.493 --> 12:24.154\n我 相 信 這 一 塊 在 立 法 院 大 家 會 給 你 們 支 持 啦 但 是 你 們 也 要 做 出 更 好 的 成 績 我 們 最 怕 的 就 是 說 大 家 跟 你 們 集 齊\n\n12:49.942 --> 12:50.102\n好 謝 謝 委 員\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.982,"end":6.843,"text":"司法院秘書長"},{"start":24.622,"end":47.929,"text":"我要來先就教我們鄭部長我想在上個禮拜台灣算其實是不太平靜當然不是只有我們立法院立法院這個競技場本來就是時空見慣那上個禮拜我們就看到像除了說整個終結的一個砍人事件以外讓社會相當恐慌的就是另外一位受監護處分的就是"},{"start":49.029,"end":72.401,"text":"從基隆某間醫院脫逃以後在北部這個地方這樣流竄我相信就是因為造成一些恐慌才讓臺北市有一些學校它才暫停的一個開放幸好到最後是落網但是同時這個案件 個案也透露了讓國人去意識到說我們整個監護的一個處分"},{"start":74.392,"end":100.802,"text":"到底哪一些地方必須要再去補破網的一個地方那這次的個案裡面你說從法院依殺人未遂去判處三年然後在執行刑法前先進行五年這樣的一個監護你全案定驗以後交由臺北地檢署去執行那今年3月排到基隆某精神醫院的一個監護這個程序看起來好像都很順暢但是社會上很多案例"},{"start":102.645,"end":125.781,"text":"看起來其實不像我們所看到的這樣子也就是說一個人是不是受監護的一個處分你等法官判決那判決確定以後檢察官再按照這個情況去找適合的一個處遇的一個機構我想請教部長就是說你們認為現在最大的問題處在什麼地方"},{"start":128.293,"end":145.242,"text":"目前我認為最大的問題就是因為監護處的確是要醫療照護來代替那個那個就把它當作屬性把它界定在病人的這個這個主體但是因為我們現在醫療的這部分的有"},{"start":146.443,"end":166.762,"text":"醫療處所的這邊的資源是還不夠的那而且最主要就是有意要做這些有管理監護執行監護收治監護處分的這些的醫院的意願不高再加上有這些的其實說有這些的充分的比較多的資源醫院這部分我沒有去了解是意願是不高的"},{"start":167.262,"end":181.483,"text":"那我們也擔心就是有醫院高的那這些收治的這些的處所是這些的醫療的這些的資源這些尤其是安全維護的這個措施是不是足夠那這部分我們也是要去比較擔心的或者一定是不夠啦"},{"start":182.369,"end":209.363,"text":"那所以說我們才會去跟有形成的統籌來籌設精神司法精神病房醫院的這些的這個速度齁 這個速度其實齁要建制還有很長一段路要走我請教秘書長就是說秘書長你譬如說法官就下一個判決下完了以後啊接下來脫離法院啦齁是是是依你們所看到的你們認為"},{"start":211.687,"end":238.578,"text":"我們檢方這樣的一個執行你有沒有看到什麼樣必須要趕快這個網把補起來的地方我舉例啊假設這個案例啊假設有幾個案例是在媽祖媽祖受刑人在媽祖或者說這個被判決應該受監護的對象在媽祖我媽祖我沒有部長你媽祖只有檢察官我的車可以坐到一個年嗎一個檢察店可以坐到一個年嗎對不對"},{"start":240.816,"end":259.598,"text":"那你要人要送到哪裡?假設送台北,然後這個訪視,然後這個要去追蹤,這受監護人,一個地檢署要執行。那換言之在做這個報告的時候,你們到底有沒有什麼樣一個全盤的一個考量?我先聽你講完以後,我再來講我的看法。"},{"start":262.372,"end":274.689,"text":"就是法院假如說針對這個個案他有一些障礙的話那會認為說宣判的時候會給他一般會說監護多久啦監護多久"},{"start":277.025,"end":296.63,"text":"那這個在接下來就是判決之後的執行就是會請我們檢察官就是用比較適合的方式來看就這個個案是到底是在哪邊用什麼方式來執行會比較適合秘書長我跟你講檢察官也不是醫生"},{"start":300.391,"end":321.378,"text":"媽咪精神科醫生我們其實也都可以撿來關太多太多的一個責任但到底這個怎麼辦你說我們上次在2022年修法這個刑法87條把原本監護期間5年增訂無延長次數的監護期間對不對連這個其實我都有意見的啦但是後來為了補這個整個社會安全網我手是舉起來是贊成的啦不然以我在"},{"start":329.266,"end":354.941,"text":"鄉間所看到的個案我看到有一個在我們地方上可以說是人民的精神導師啊導師啊什麼人有痛苦啊什麼人家庭有問題啊什麼改革啊都要找他告解都要找他這樣排解要跟他說完之後他就這樣大家民眾就很高興那些大名的主委有一天啊他晚上來拜訪我拜訪我"},{"start":358.376,"end":378.923,"text":"崩潰了,大哭,我嚇一跳。他是鄉民的神,怎麼可以對我這樣崩潰,大哭。他說我的孩子,要猥褻,要判三年,要把他關二十年,我聽到說,網告有可能,這個猥褻也有可能。但是我第一個想到的就是監護處分,都要依啊,都要依啊。他的孩子,看到人要幫忙收領,"},{"start":389.599,"end":393.982,"text":"社會安全網不補起來又不行可是這一種又你一下子你刑法你就知道猥褻就不是那麼高嘛可是呢一戒一監護處分以後啊"},{"start":416.326,"end":417.767,"text":"馬祖地檢署 馬祖地區"},{"start":440.089,"end":456.414,"text":"馬祖只有那個那個他醫療是不夠的不夠齁是啊所以我要說的就是說好啦你現在司法精神病院大家都希望要經濟推動我說現況如果像那一種"},{"start":458.161,"end":482.272,"text":"這個就有點類似前陣子在講新北市那個鎧鎧案一樣嘛 新北 到底要付錢給新北而已啊搞不好在照顧照顧機構 要出洋的時候是台北市 中間就出現問題啦那如果說你今天是媽祖地檢署的檢察官 你本來一個月要去看一次的兩件你就無時了咧 媽祖你沒啊"},{"start":485.945,"end":507.707,"text":"如果你放在台北呢?假設那個受監護處分的人是在松德呢?所以監裁委員才會去跟你們講說,你們這個跨區的處分這樣的一個安置的問題,你們會出現很大的問題。那第一個,今天我們搞不好也心不甘情不願了。今天我們講說,你為什麼不叫我來?"},{"start":509.124,"end":520.159,"text":"第二個就是說你整個後續追蹤醫療的一個困難還有整個社區的一個機制你怎麼樣去完善這個都缺乏我們現在是頭痛一頭腳痛一腳"},{"start":524.892,"end":524.932,"text":"要補充"},{"start":548.452,"end":574.519,"text":"這部分其實我們對暫時安置跟監護處分的這部分事實上現在是進入到第二期第二期那我們有一個標準的一個流程那另外我們也做一個精神就是一個精神的鑑定、個案評估包括轉嫌其實這些都是我們有完善的一個做一個措施了那這邊都規劃好了那我們希望最主要還是能夠"},{"start":577.38,"end":591.53,"text":"給這些受監護人一個比較好的照顧。另外,如果是在轉嫌這部分,如果說期滿轉嫌這部分,我們也可以結合社會警政、衛政、這些勞動的等等,還有更深的這邊做一個好的銜接,不要讓它漏接了。"},{"start":592.867,"end":613.314,"text":"其實怎麼樣去建制比較完善的一個受案的一個制度還有去追蹤這個流程我相信這個是社會大眾期待的因為社會大眾認為說我不想陷於這樣的一個恐懼啊如果說打擊犯罪或者司法審判司法人員要審判 我想你們都做得到啦打擊犯罪不中你們都做得到啦但是你看澳部要管的事情就是這麼多"},{"start":619.436,"end":640.32,"text":"這個也是你的業務的一環我們也期待你要重拾國人對整個司法制度的一個信心連這個讓國人免於恐懼不然現在你的責任呢?所以不是只有前端打擊犯罪而已連後端這一些社會安全網你怎麼樣去把它做一個建制所以我是認為因為部長剛上任我沒有要求太多但至少"},{"start":647.321,"end":674.813,"text":"我看連監察院跟你們所提出來這幾項那個確實也是重點你們特別要再加強一下因為這些社會每一個地方都會碰到大家不願意把它讓它浮上檯面只有個案出現的時候大家才去討論否則這個問題很大我也不能去講說整個社會安全網的一個建制裡面碰到一些個案就會覺得說這對人身自由的一個剝奪"},{"start":676.053,"end":691.646,"text":"各案常常會跟這個社會安全網大家這整個制度裡面會產生有衝突的一個地方怎麼樣去調和啦但重點是說確實是人力、物力剛我提案的、首案的這個整個機制還有整個個案事後的監獄處那個整個"},{"start":697.318,"end":714.302,"text":"整個處分裡面、監護處分裡面如何去做一個追蹤尤其是我剛提到那個部分你那個跨區那個整個跨區如何去安置的一個部分這個其實都是值得我們法務部要再去做更"},{"start":714.942,"end":741.233,"text":"這部分公務員報告我們其實就是用分流的一個方式來分級的一個管理嘛那像我們司法精神病院的話醫院病房的話其實我們那個收治的一個強度照顧的強度會比較強因為的確是對這些比較有中高度社會危險性的這些受監護人我們要比較好的一個照顧那這次有比較多的一些的資源給他那如果說比較輕的話那我們就是甚至門診就可以了"},{"start":741.493,"end":744.154,"text":"我相信這一塊在立法院大家會給你們支持啦但是你們也要做出更好的成績我們最怕的就是說大家跟你們集齊"},{"start":769.942,"end":770.102,"text":"好 謝謝委員"}]}}}}