{"id":153192,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153192","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/2c978e04ca5e13311ba7a5a2d6decc71d0e137800dc086ea333bc5d453e1b195777ad80cf16e02b65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"09:53:08 - 10:04:01","影片長度":"00:10:53","會議時間":"2024-05-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽及經濟部次長列席就「展望全球核能發電趨勢，我國核電廠延役推動現況暨發展新型核能成為永續能源之規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【5月27日及29日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-29","duration":653,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-14"},"end_time":"2024-05-29T10:04:01+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-29T09:53:08+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":227,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（9時53分）麻煩請核安會主委，還有經濟部次長。"],["主席：請主委、次長，謝謝。"],["葉委員元之：主委好、次長好。"],["陳主任委員東陽：委員好。"],["葉委員元之：我今天早上看報紙，國發會主委劉鏡清說他不排斥使用核能。他講了一個非常關鍵的東西，他說只要能夠把核廢料做良好的貯存，他就不排斥核能。換句話說，在國發會主委的認定裡，他認為核安不是太大問題，否則他就會把核安的條件加進去，他只有單純針對核廢料的良好貯存這一塊有疑慮，當然這樣我就覺得這個問題簡化很多，已經簡化很多，剛好核安會針對核廢料的終極貯存其實是有個計畫，上次我有詢問，但當時時間不夠，沒有問得很清楚，我再次show出這個表格，這是核安會2022年的修訂版，針對最終核廢料處置場所有一些計畫，比如在2017年必須先提出候選場址的建議調查區域。請問，2017年提出的候選場址建議調查區域是哪裡？"],["陳主任委員東陽：跟委員報告，這個部分是經濟部……"],["葉委員元之：是經濟部，那請經濟部次長回答。"],["林次長全能：委員，我是不是可以請台電公司回答？"],["葉委員元之：可以。"],["許副總經理永輝：因為主要是高階核廢料，就是用過核燃料這一塊的最終處置部分，必須整個臺灣去做所謂的地質調查跟地質鑽探，可是因為沒有法源，目前沒有法源依據，所以台電公司在做任何地質調查跟地質鑽探時，都會受到民間……"],["葉委員元之：請針對我的問題回答好嗎？"],["許副總經理永輝：是，所以目前……"],["葉委員元之：知道我的問題是什麼嗎？"],["許副總經理永輝：我知道，所以目前來講是沒有……"],["葉委員元之：並沒有調查是吧？"],["許副總經理永輝：對，因為沒有法源依據。"],["葉委員元之：那這個計畫是寫好玩的嗎？2017年說要提出候選場址的建議調查區域，2017年離現在都已經七年了！"],["許副總經理永輝：對，2017年有提出來，2017年必須要做整個地質的鑽探、地質的調查，但這一塊因為在……"],["葉委員元之：我先問你2017年你們提出來的是哪裡？"],["許副總經理永輝：呃！有，我們當時有嘗試要去做，比如像金門……"],["葉委員元之：金門，還有哪裡？"],["許副總經理永輝：花蓮。"],["葉委員元之：金門、花蓮？"],["許副總經理永輝：嘿，對。"],["葉委員元之：就是本來有考慮把核廢料放在金門跟花蓮，是不是？"],["許副總經理永輝：呃，沒有，不是這樣，就是先做初步的所謂地質調查……"],["葉委員元之：調查嘛！對嘛！一定是先選你覺得有可能放的地方，才會去調查，不然調查幹嘛！現在經過七年了，有什麼進展？"],["許副總經理永輝：目前來講，在整個組織部分，本來立法的部分是在核安會，就是以前的原能會，但原能會後來改制成核安會，所以目前這個所謂立法已經歸到經濟部這邊來，目前來講……"],["葉委員元之：不好意思，我時間很有限，你可不可以針對我的問題？我的問題那麼簡單。"],["許副總經理永輝：因為沒有法源依據，所以我們目前來講……"],["葉委員元之：所以沒有調查嘛！現在是這個意思，是不是？"],["許副總經理永輝：目前來講……"],["葉委員元之：就沒有做事嘛！好啦！請教，所以後面那個計畫全部pending嗎？"],["許副總經理永輝：不是，我們是先就技術工程，就是先跟科技……"],["葉委員元之：好，沒關係，你是副總，對不對？"],["許副總經理永輝：是。"],["葉委員元之：請教一下，根據你這個計畫，2025年要完成處置場概念設計，現在進行怎麼樣？有哪些概念設計在進行？"],["許副總經理永輝：目前的部分，大概就是參與整個國際的合作，包括芬蘭，因為芬蘭大概今年的最終處置部分會做試運轉計畫，所以我們今年下半年會參與他們的試運轉計畫。"],["葉委員元之：會參與芬蘭的試營運計畫？"],["許副總經理永輝：對。"],["葉委員元之：好，請教，2025年有可能完成概念場設計嗎？"],["許副總經理永輝：呃，目前我們會再努力，當然最基礎……"],["葉委員元之：有沒有可能？"],["許副總經理永輝：還是要有一個法源依據。"],["葉委員元之：2026年有沒有可能完成候選場址的特性調查與評估？"],["許副總經理永輝：這我們會努力。"],["葉委員元之：2017年的部分你都說要pending了，2026年的可以完成喔？不要來這邊糊弄啦！我都是以誠待人，但是大家講話不要把人當笨蛋，好不好？2017年你就已經講了，你說當時遇到困難，結果你說2026年的部分你會努力，你做不做得到啦？"],["許副總經理永輝：呃，這部分我……"],["葉委員元之：今天是劉鏡清國發會主委講的喔！只要讓核廢料能夠妥善貯存，他都不排斥用核電，結果你們現在負責處理核廢料的單位，講話一個比一個呼嚨，什麼時候完成？你跟我講一個時程，什麼時候完成？"],["許副總經理永輝：報告委員，比如在技術工程部分，我們會先參與國際的合作，後來……"],["葉委員元之：參與合作是什麼意思？我在問你們核廢料什麼時候可以處理？"],["許副總經理永輝：後來還有社會溝通的這一塊……"],["葉委員元之：臺灣的核廢料候選場址什麼時候完成調查？什麼時候提出場址？什麼時候選出永久的核廢料貯存場？什麼時候？"],["許副總經理永輝：報告委員，因為所有最終處置都是一個鄰避設施……"],["葉委員元之：什麼時候嘛？所以一輩子都做不到，是不是？"],["許副總經理永輝：不會！不會！"],["葉委員元之：那今天劉鏡清國發會主委講的這個話，白講了嘛！他認為只要處理好核廢料，核能不排斥，結果我們處理核廢料的單位──台電跟核安會是這種態度，說因為有鄰避設施，然後因為法規問題，所以不去積極處理，我就擺爛！"],["許副總經理永輝：我們有提出所謂的終極……"],["葉委員元之：台電都沒有感覺到現在方向轉了，以前在蔡英文政府時代，只要講到核，每一個人都嚇得要死不敢講，結果現在民進黨的政務官一個一個出來表態，經濟部長出來表態、國發會主委出來表態，還有你們賴總統的好朋友──童子賢出來表態，大家都認為可以使用核電，結果使用核電必須要排除的問題，你們一副就是無所謂的樣子，難道現在是在唱雙簧，是不是？"],["許副總經理永輝：報告委員，最終……"],["葉委員元之：不要再報告了啦！你有沒有辦法解決嘛？台電沒辦法！請問次長，現在核廢料有辦法處理嗎？我現在講的是你們的計畫欸！我現在不是自己掰一個時程，要你們明天處理，我是按照你的計畫欸！結果問到2017年是這樣子回答，問到2025年是這樣回答，問到2026年是這樣回答！"],["林次長全能：我跟委員很坦誠的報告，核廢料的處理，現在是一個大問題，第一個……"],["葉委員元之：那你有沒有去和劉鏡清說？"],["林次長全能：劉委員的發言，我不太清楚。"],["葉委員元之：劉主委啦！你把他叫小了。"],["林次長全能：劉主委的發言，我不太清楚。但是我很坦誠的向委員報告，您剛才問到的問題，核廢料的處理是一個大問題。"],["葉委員元之：大問題！這樣本席就不問了，因為本席就是要你說出實話。請問一下台電，板橋上個月下大雨就停電，怎麼回事？"],["許副總經理永輝：應該不叫停電，應該叫異常，就是非預期的跳電。"],["葉委員元之：停電就是家裡沒有電可以用，這也要拗嗎？你要不要去問一下小老百姓什麼叫停電？就是他家的開關打開沒有電，這就叫停電。本席現在是問你當天怎麼回事？什麼原因造成的？本席不是說缺電，你不用緊張，本席是問什麼情況造成的。"],["許副總經理永輝：那個大概是設備故障。"],["葉委員元之：為什麼設備故障？"],["許副總經理永輝：所以為什麼台電提出……"],["葉委員元之：本席告訴你，好不好？因為下大雨，雨水沖刷到電線桿上的開關，結果就壞掉了。所以你們的韌性電網在哪裡？"],["許副總經理永輝：所以在我們5年的強化計畫裡面，必須要做一個……"],["葉委員元之：副總，本席現在不是和你辯論缺電的問題，你們現在如果沒有把電網弄好，一樣會停電啦！台電編列1,000億元要做韌性電網，可是結果還是一樣，下大雨就停電。為什麼停電？不管是饋線跳脫停電，小動物碰撞停電，你們還是一樣讓人家沒有電可以用啊！本席想問一下，到底什麼時候可以把韌性電網做好？你們預計還要花多少錢才有辦法把韌性電網做好？"],["許副總經理永輝：目前我們有一個5年的計畫，逐年編列預算。"],["葉委員元之：大概多少錢？逐年編列多少？"],["許副總經理永輝：應該差不多1,000億元到兩千多億元。"],["葉委員元之：逐年編列1,000億元？"],["許副總經理永輝：不是。總共大概要花2,000億元以上。"],["葉委員元之：總共花2,000億元？做得好嗎？"],["許副總經理永輝：目前來說，大概……"],["葉委員元之：因為你們花了1,000億元做不好嘛！現在又要增加1,000億元。"],["許副總經理永輝：其實有一項，剛才委員有提到，就是外在裸露的部分，我們會去做包覆的工作。"],["葉委員元之：什麼外在？你們現在是連下雨都會停電，還說什麼外在的部分。而且你們每次都怪小動物，本席為小動物感到不值，你們不能做一些防避設施，讓小動物不要進來嗎？"],["許副總經理永輝：這是我們努力要做的。"],["葉委員元之：小動物誤闖，對人類來說會造成停電，對小動物來說這是生命的喪失。"],["許副總經理永輝：所以我們未來對裸露的部分會做包覆。"],["葉委員元之：這個問題說了多久？而且台電因為補貼太多發電成本，所以不願意花錢去做電網，然後一直說再生能源，再生能源過去8年成長多少？"],["林次長全能：再生能源過去8年成長了數十倍。"],["葉委員元之：5%！數十倍？！"],["林次長全能：我說的是設置量的部分。"],["葉委員元之：對嘛！你們設定的2025年非核家園計畫，再生能源的部分要占20%，結果再生能源只增加5%，還有10%……"],["林次長全能：委員說的是發電數，我剛才提的是設置容量。"],["葉委員元之：洪申翰，本席說的有問題，是不是？"],["洪委員申翰：等一下跟你說。"],["葉委員元之：不用，你不用跟本席說。再生能源現在就是成長有了障礙、瓶頸，所以才會有那麼多人提到核電。本席剛才說的那些問題，不知道為什麼今天來備詢的官員都沒有準備就來，一問三不知，時間拖完之後就沒事了。","本席還是要提醒你們啦！相信剛才很多委員都有提到核電的問題，現在是你們所有的長官都認為核電應該繼續使用，所以這個部分你們要認真啦！而不是本席一問核廢料的場址，你們就是一問三不知，或是沒有關係啦、是鄰避設施等等，說了一大堆理由，這個部分沒有處理，就算你們的長官想讓核電延役也很困難啦！謝謝。"],["林次長全能：謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝葉元之委員。接下來請陳秀寳委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":396,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-14","speakers":["柯志恩","洪孟楷","葛如鈞","葉元之","洪申翰","陳秀寳","萬美玲","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","林宜瑾","張雅琳","范雲","羅廷瑋","張嘉郡","陳培瑜","張智倫","林倩綺","羅智強","吳春城","楊瓊瓔","翁曉玲"],"page_start":343,"meetingDate":["2024-05-29"],"gazette_id":"1135201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135201_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽及經濟部次長列席就「展望全球核能發電趨勢，我國核電廠\n延役推動現況暨發展新型核能成為永續能源之規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1135201_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"153192","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153192","tool":"pyannote","id":"153192-pyannote"},"job_id":"S4fxBtgYADXNlqZi","queued_at":"2024-05-30 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\"我想我們再生能源過去8年成長了數十倍5%啦數十倍那是設置量5%對嘛你設定2025年非核家園再生能源是20%結果你再生能源只有增加5%你還有10%發電的數那我剛剛提到設置容量\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 578.302, \"end\": 578.382, \"score\": 0.79}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 578.382, \"end\": 578.542, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 578.542, \"end\": 578.822, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 578.822, \"end\": 578.983, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 578.983, \"end\": 579.123, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 579.123, \"end\": 579.263, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"源\", \"start\": 579.263, \"end\": 579.623, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 579.623, \"end\": 579.944, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 579.944, \"end\": 580.064, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 580.064, \"end\": 580.384, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 580.384, \"end\": 581.385, \"score\": 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1.0}, {\"word\": \"困\", \"start\": 650.399, \"end\": 650.62, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"難\"}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 650.62, \"end\": 651.54, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 651.54, \"end\": 651.56, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 652.818, \"end\": 652.838, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"en\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:11,773 --> 00:00:17,480\n麻 煩 請 那 個 核 安 會 主 委 還 有 我 們 經 濟 部 次 長 還 有 主 委 還 有 次 長 謝 謝 主 委 好 次 長 好\n\n2\n00:00:22,737 --> 00:00:42,568\n我 今 天 早 上 看 報 紙 就 是 那 個 國 安 會 主 委 劉 靜 卿 他 說 他 不 排 斥 使 用 核 能 那 他 講 一 個 非 常 關 鍵 的 東 西 他 說 只 要 能 夠 把 核 廢 料 做 良 好 的 儲 存 他 就 不 排 斥 核 能 所 以 換 句 話 說 國 安 會 主 委 的 認 定 裡 面 他 認 為 核 安 不 是 太 大 的 問 題 否 則 他 就 會 把 核 安 這 個 條 件 把 它 加 進 去\n\n3\n00:00:44,210 --> 00:01:09,992\n他 只 有 單 純 針 對 核 廢 料 的 良 好 儲 存 這 一 塊 他 有 疑 慮 那 所 以 這 個 當 然 我 覺 得 這 個 問 題 就 簡 化 很 多 了 就 已 經 簡 化 很 多 那 剛 好 我 們 核 安 會 針 對 我 們 核 廢 料 的 終 極 儲 存 其 實 有 個 計 劃 上 次 我 有 問 但 是 當 時 好 像 主 委 我 們 那 時 候 時 間 不 夠 了 沒 有 問 得 很 清 楚 我 再 一 次 秀 這 個 表 格\n\n4\n00:01:10,732 --> 00:01:31,883\n這 是 我 們 核 安 會 的 一 個 表 格 2 0 2 2 的 修 訂 版 他 有 針 對 我 們 最 終 核 廢 料 的 處 置 場 所 有 一 些 計 劃 比 如 說 在 2 0 1 7 年 必 須 要 先 提 出 候 選 場 址 的 建 議 調 查 區 域 先 請 教 一 下 2 0 1 7 年 提 出 的 候 選 場 址 的 建 議 調 查 區 域 是 哪 裡\n\n5\n00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:53,018\n跟 委 員 報 告 齁 這 個 部 分 是 經 濟 部 經 濟 部 那 經 濟 部 次 長 回 答 一 下 委 員 我 是 不 是 可 以 請 我 們 台 電 公 司 這 邊 來 回 答 一 下 可 以 因 為 主 要 是 高 階 核 廢 料 就 用 過 核 燃 料 的 這 一 塊 的 最 終 處 置 的 部 分\n\n6\n00:01:54,435 --> 00:02:20,232\n因 為 必 須 . . . 必 須 要 整 個 台 灣 去 做 所 謂 的 地 質 調 查 跟 地 質 專 探 可 是 因 為 他 沒 有 法 源 目 前 來 講 沒 有 法 源 依 據 所 以 台 電 公 司 其 實 在 做 任 何 的 地 質 調 查 跟 地 質 的 專 探 呢 其 實 上 都 會 受 到 民 間 的 這 個 . . . 沒 有 沒 有 我 只 問 你 回 答 好 不 好 是 所 以 目 前 . . . 你 知 道 我 的 問 題 是 什 麼 嗎 我 知 道 所 以 目 前 來 講 是 沒 有 . . . 並 沒 有 調 查 是 吧 對 就 是 因 為 沒 有 法 源 的 依 據 那 這 個 計 畫 是 寫 好 玩 的 喔\n\n7\n00:02:23,579 --> 00:02:39,436\n你 2 0 1 7 年 說 要 提 出 候 選 場 址 的 建 議 調 查 區 域 2 0 1 7 離 現 在 都 已 經 7 年 了 2 0 1 7 有 提 出 來 2 0 1 7 你 必 須 要 做 整 個 地 質 的 專 談 地 質 的 調 查 那 這 一 塊 因 為 在 那 我 先 問 你 2 0 1 7 你 提 出 來 的 是 哪 裡 嗎\n\n8\n00:02:43,050 --> 00:03:05,321\n呃 有 我 沒 有 我 沒 有 呃 當 時 有 嘗 試 的 要 去 做 比 如 像 金 門 啊 或 者 金 門 花 蓮 花 蓮 金 門 花 蓮 對 本 來 有 考 慮 要 把 核 廢 料 放 在 金 門 跟 花 蓮 沒 有 不 是 這 樣 就 是 說 先 做 初 步 的 所 謂 的 地 質 調 查 嗎 對 嘛 那 你 先 選 你 覺 得 有 可 能 放 地 方 才 去 調 查 不 然 掉 幹 嘛 然 後 那 現 在 經 過 7 年 那 有 什 麼 進 展 嗎\n\n9\n00:03:08,295 --> 00:03:22,852\n目 前 來 講 我 們 大 概 因 為 在 整 個 的 組 織 本 來 這 個 立 法 的 部 分 是 在 核 安 會 就 是 以 前 的 原 能 會 但 是 原 能 會 後 來 改 制 以 後 變 核 安 會 以 後 所 以 目 前 這 個 所 謂 立 法 的 已 經 歸 到 經 濟 部 這 邊 來 所 以 目 前 來 講\n\n10\n00:03:25,535 --> 00:03:45,990\n不 好 意 思 我 時 間 很 有 限 你 可 不 可 以 針 對 我 問 題 那 麼 簡 單 所 以 因 為 在 立 法 因 為 沒 有 法 院 去 所 以 沒 有 調 查 嘛 現 在 是 這 個 意 思 是 不 是 目 前 來 講 就 沒 有 做 事 嘛 好 啦 那 請 教 那 所 以 後 面 那 個 計 畫 全 部 p e n d i n g 嗎 不 是 所 以 我 們 先 技 術 工 程 就 是 說 我 們 先 跟 科 技 合 作 好 沒 關 係 您 是 副 總 嘛 對 不 對 那 請 教 一 下 2 0 2 5 年 根 據 你 這 個 計 畫 2 0 2 5 年 要 完 成 組 織 廠 概 念 設 計 那 現 在 進 行 怎 麼 樣\n\n11\n00:03:53,529 --> 00:04:15,367\n你 有 哪 些 概 念 設 計 在 進 行 目 前 的 部 分 我 們 大 概 就 參 與 整 個 國 際 的 合 作 包 括 分 欄 的 因 為 分 欄 他 大 概 今 年 來 講 他 的 最 終 處 置 的 部 分 會 做 私 運 船 計 劃 所 以 我 們 大 概 今 年 的 下 半 年 會 參 與 他 的 一 個 私 運 船 計 劃 會 參 與 分 欄 的 私 運 計 劃 對 那 請 教 一 下 2 0 2 5 年 你 有 可 能 會 完 成 概 念 想 設 計 嗎\n\n12\n00:04:16,993 --> 00:04:39,484\n目 前 我 們 會 在 努 力 當 然 最 基 礎 還 是 要 有 一 個 法 院 的 意 見 2 0 2 6 年 有 沒 有 可 能 會 完 成 候 選 長 職 的 特 性 調 查 與 評 估 這 個 我 們 會 努 力 2 0 1 7 年 你 都 說 你 P e n d i n g 的 你 2 0 2 6 年 可 以 完 成 喔 不 要 來 這 邊 呼 嚨 啦 我 都 是 以 臣 代 人 啦 但 是 大 家 講 話 不 要 把 人 當 笨 蛋 好 不 好 2 0 1 7 年 你 就 已 經 講 了 你 就 說 你 當 時 就 遇 到 困 難 結 果 你 2 0 2 6 年 跟 我 說 你 會 努 力 做 不 做 得 到 啦\n\n13\n00:04:49,121 --> 00:05:01,193\n我 今 天 劉 靜 卿 國 發 會 主 委 講 的 喔 只 要 讓 核 廢 料 有 能 夠 妥 善 的 儲 存 他 都 不 排 斥 用 核 電 結 果 你 們 現 在 負 責 處 理 核 廢 料 單 位 講 話 一 個 比 一 個 呼 嚨\n\n14\n00:05:02,915 --> 00:05:12,625\n什 麼 時 候 完 成 ? 你 跟 我 講 一 個 時 辰 。 什 麼 時 候 完 成 ? 參 與 合 作 什 麼 意 思 ? 我 現 在 講 的 是 你 核 廢 料 什 麼 時 候 可 以 處 理 嗎 ? 台 灣 的 核 廢 料 候 選 場 址 什 麼 時 候 完 成 調 查 ? 什 麼 時 候 提 出 場 址 ? 什 麼 時 候 選 出 永 久 的 核 廢 料 的 儲 存 場 ? 什 麼 時 候 ?\n\n15\n00:05:26,677 --> 00:05:50,457\n包 委 員 因 為 所 有 的 最 終 處 置 都 是 一 個 零 幣 設 施 什 麼 時 候 嘛 所 以 一 輩 子 做 不 到 是 不 是 那 你 今 天 劉 敬 卿 國 發 會 主 委 講 的 這 個 話 白 講 了 嘛 因 為 他 認 為 說 只 要 處 理 好 核 廢 料 核 能 不 排 斥 結 果 我 們 處 理 核 廢 料 單 位 台 電 跟 核 安 會 這 種 態 度 說 因 為 有 零 幣 設 施 然 後 因 為 法 規 所 以 我 不 去 進 行 處 理 我 就 擺 爛\n\n16\n00:05:51,758 --> 00:06:05,816\n所 以 我 們 有 提 出 所 謂 的 終 極 無 尊 終 極 無 尊 以 前 在 蔡 英 文 政 府 時 代 只 要 講 到 核 每 一 個 人 下 的 鑰 匙 不 敢 講 結 果 現 在 民 進 黨 的 政 務 官 一 個 一 個 出 來 表 態 經 濟 部 長 出 來 表 態\n\n17\n00:06:09,193 --> 00:06:23,736\n國 八 會 主 委 出 來 表 態 還 有 你 們 賴 總 統 好 朋 友 童 子 賢 出 來 表 態 大 家 都 認 為 說 可 以 使 用 核 電 結 果 要 使 用 核 電 必 須 要 排 除 的 問 題 你 們 一 副 就 是 無 所 謂 的 樣 子 然 後 那 現 在 是 在 唱 雙 簧 是 不 是 ? 呃 包 圍 . . . 所 以 因 為 . . . 不 用 再 報 告 了 啦 你 又 沒 辦 法 解 決 嘛 台 電 沒 辦 法 次 長 請 問 一 下 現 在 核 備 料 有 辦 法 處 理 嗎 ?\n\n18\n00:06:35,083 --> 00:06:40,089\n我 跟 委 員 很 坦 誠 的 報 告 核 配 料 的 處 理 現 在 是 一 個 大 問 題 那 你 有 沒 有 去 跟 劉 靜 卿 講\n\n19\n00:06:55,578 --> 00:07:06,188\n我 想 那 個 劉 委 員 他 的 一 個 發 言 我 不 太 清 楚 劉 主 委 來 把 他 叫 小 了 啦 劉 主 委 的 發 言 我 不 太 清 楚 但 是 我 很 坦 誠 的 跟 委 員 報 告 您 剛 剛 問 到 的 問 題 我 們 核 廢 料 處 理 是 個 大 問 題 大 問 題 我 就 不 問 了 啦 我 就 是 要 你 講 出 這 個 實 話 啦 那 請 問 一 下 那 個 台 電 我 想 問 一 下 我 們 板 橋 上 個 月 下 大 雨 就 停 電 怎 麼 回 事\n\n20\n00:07:23,209 --> 00:07:32,644\n這 部 分 大 概 停 電 的 部 分 齁 大 概 那 個 應 該 不 叫 停 電 那 個 應 該 叫 做 異 常 就 是 非 預 期 的 停 電 嘛 就 是 家 裡 沒 有 電 可 以 用 就 停 電 嘛 你 這 個 也 要 在 那 邊 凹 喔\n\n21\n00:07:34,212 --> 00:07:50,303\n你 要 不 要 去 問 一 下 小 老 百 姓 什 麼 叫 停 電 就 是 他 的 電 開 關 打 開 沒 有 電 就 叫 停 電 我 現 在 問 你 怎 麼 回 事 怎 麼 造 成 的 我 不 是 說 缺 電 你 不 用 緊 張 我 說 怎 麼 形 狀 造 成 的 那 個 大 概 設 備 的 故 障 為 什 麼 設 備 的 故 障 我 告 訴 你 好 不 好 下 大 雨 雨 衝 到 所 謂 的 那 個 電 掀 桿 上 面 的 開 關 就 壞 掉\n\n22\n00:08:00,471 --> 00:08:21,365\n所 以 在 我 們 5 年 的 一 個 所 以 你 們 任 性 電 網 在 哪 裡 沒 有 所 以 在 我 們 5 年 的 情 況 下 部 長 我 跟 你 講 喔 必 須 要 做 我 現 在 不 去 跟 你 變 什 麼 缺 電 問 題 啦 你 現 在 如 果 沒 有 把 電 網 把 它 弄 好 一 樣 會 停 電 啦 台 電 編 了 1 0 0 0 億 說 要 做 任 性 電 網 結 果 做 的 結 果 還 是 一 樣 夏 大 宇 停 電 怎 麼 樣 停 電 潰 線 跳 脫 停 電 小 動 物 停 電\n\n23\n00:08:23,117 --> 00:08:47,757\n你 還 讓 人 家 沒 有 電 可 以 用 啊 我 想 問 一 下 到 底 什 麼 時 候 可 以 要 把 這 個 韌 性 電 網 做 好 你 們 預 計 還 要 花 多 少 錢 才 有 辦 法 把 韌 性 電 網 做 好 預 計 還 要 花 多 少 錢 目 前 來 講 我 們 大 概 有 一 個 五 年 的 計 畫 在 走 大 概 多 少 錢 逐 年 編 列 多 少 錢 逐 年 編 列 多 少 對 應 該 差 不 多 一 千 億 到 底 逐 年 編 列 一 千 億 不 是 逐 年 總 共 大 概 要 花\n\n24\n00:08:50,106 --> 00:09:15,533\n總 共 花 了 兩 千 億 就 做 得 好 嗎 目 前 來 講 大 概 因 為 你 花 一 千 億 做 不 好 嘛 那 你 現 在 要 增 加 一 千 億 所 以 其 實 有 一 項 剛 才 委 員 有 提 到 就 是 外 在 的 我 們 會 去 做 外 在 你 現 在 連 下 雨 都 會 停 電 外 在 而 且 我 覺 得 每 次 怪 小 動 物 我 也 小 動 物 感 到 不 值 啊 你 不 能 做 一 些 防 弊 設 施 讓 小 動 物 不 要 進 來 嗎 小 動 物 進 來 我 們 人 類 是 停 電 小 動 物 是 生 命 的 喪 屍 啊\n\n25\n00:09:16,753 --> 00:09:23,615\n所 以 我 們 也 在 做 包 覆 這 個 問 題 你 講 多 久 了 台 電 因 為 你 們 就 補 貼 太 多 發 電 成 本 嘛 所 以 不 願 意 花 錢 去 做 電 網 嘛 然 後 一 直 講 那 個 再 生 能 源 再 生 能 源 過 去 8 年 成 長 多 少 多 少 過 去 8 年 再 生 能 源 成 長 多 少\n\n26\n00:09:38,302 --> 00:09:53,737\n我 想 我 們 再 生 能 源 過 去 8 年 成 長 了 數 十 倍 5 % 啦 數 十 倍 那 是 設 置 量 5 % 對 嘛 你 設 定 2 0 2 5 年 非 核 家 園 再 生 能 源 是 2 0 % 結 果 你 再 生 能 源 只 有 增 加 5 % 你 還 有 1 0 % 發 電 的 數 那 我 剛 剛 提 到 設 置 容 量\n\n27\n00:10:00,763 --> 00:10:20,940\n不 用 不 用 跟 你 不 用 跟 我 講 對 在 深 圳 現 在 就 是 成 長 造 成 的 障 礙 瓶 頸 嘛 所 以 才 有 那 麼 多 人 講 核 電 嘛 好 不 好 我 剛 剛 講 那 些 問 題 我 不 知 道 為 什 麼 今 天 來 備 詢 的 官 員 都 沒 有 準 備 就 來 就 來 備 詢 然 後 一 問 三 不 知 時 間 拖 完 之 後 然 後 就 沒 事 了\n\n28\n00:10:22,777 --> 00:10:51,560\n現 在 , 還 是 要 提 醒 你 們 啦 今 天 我 相 信 剛 剛 很 多 委 員 都 有 提 到 核 電 的 問 題 現 在 是 所 有 你 們 的 長 官 都 認 為 說 核 電 應 該 要 繼 續 使 用 所 以 這 個 部 分 你 們 要 認 真 啦 不 是 說 我 一 問 你 們 那 個 核 電 廠 的 核 廢 料 的 廠 子 就 一 問 三 不 知 不 做 沒 關 係 啦 林 併 設 施 然 後 什 麼 講 一 大 堆 理 由 這 個 沒 有 處 理 就 算 你 們 的 長 官 想 要 研 議 核 電 也 都 很 困 難 啦 好 謝 謝\n\n29\n00:10:52,818 --> 00:10:52,838\n謝 謝 委 員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n11773\t17480\t麻煩請那個核安會主委還有我們經濟部次長還有主委還有次長謝謝主委好 次長好\n22737\t42568\t我今天早上看報紙就是那個國安會主委劉靜卿他說他不排斥使用核能那他講一個非常關鍵的東西他說只要能夠把核廢料做良好的儲存他就不排斥核能所以換句話說國安會主委的認定裡面他認為核安不是太大的問題否則他就會把核安這個條件把它加進去\n44210\t69992\t他只有單純針對核廢料的良好儲存這一塊他有疑慮那所以這個當然我覺得這個問題就簡化很多了就已經簡化很多那剛好我們核安會針對我們核廢料的終極儲存其實有個計劃上次我有問但是當時好像主委我們那時候時間不夠了沒有問得很清楚我再一次秀這個表格\n70732\t91883\t這是我們核安會的一個表格2022的修訂版他有針對我們最終核廢料的處置場所有一些計劃比如說在2017年必須要先提出候選場址的建議調查區域先請教一下2017年提出的候選場址的建議調查區域是哪裡\n94880\t113018\t跟委員報告齁 這個部分是經濟部經濟部 那經濟部次長回答一下委員我是不是可以請我們台電公司這邊來回答一下 可以因為主要是高階核廢料就用過核燃料的這一塊的最終處置的部分\n114435\t140232\t因為必須...必須要整個台灣去做所謂的地質調查跟地質專探可是因為他沒有法源目前來講沒有法源依據所以台電公司其實在做任何的地質調查跟地質的專探呢其實上都會受到民間的這個...沒有沒有我只問你回答好不好是所以目前...你知道我的問題是什麼嗎我知道所以目前來講是沒有...並沒有調查是吧對就是因為沒有法源的依據那這個計畫是寫好玩的喔\n143579\t159436\t你2017年說要提出候選場址的建議調查區域2017離現在都已經7年了2017有提出來2017你必須要做整個地質的專談地質的調查那這一塊因為在那我先問你2017你提出來的是哪裡嗎\n163050\t185321\t呃有我沒有我沒有呃當時有嘗試的要去做比如像金門啊或者金門花蓮花蓮金門花蓮對本來有考慮要把核廢料放在金門跟花蓮沒有不是這樣就是說先做初步的所謂的地質調查嗎對嘛那你先選你覺得有可能放地方才去調查不然掉幹嘛然後那現在經過7年那有什麼進展嗎\n188295\t202852\t目前來講我們大概因為在整個的組織本來這個立法的部分是在核安會就是以前的原能會但是原能會後來改制以後變核安會以後所以目前這個所謂立法的已經歸到經濟部這邊來所以目前來講\n205535\t225990\t不好意思我時間很有限你可不可以針對我問題那麼簡單所以因為在立法因為沒有法院去所以沒有調查嘛現在是這個意思是不是目前來講就沒有做事嘛好啦那請教那所以後面那個計畫全部pending嗎不是所以我們先技術工程就是說我們先跟科技合作好沒關係您是副總嘛對不對那請教一下2025年根據你這個計畫2025年要完成組織廠概念設計那現在進行怎麼樣\n233529\t255367\t你有哪些概念設計在進行目前的部分我們大概就參與整個國際的合作包括分欄的因為分欄他大概今年來講他的最終處置的部分會做私運船計劃所以我們大概今年的下半年會參與他的一個私運船計劃會參與分欄的私運計劃對那請教一下2025年你有可能會完成概念想設計嗎\n256993\t279484\t目前我們會在努力當然最基礎還是要有一個法院的意見2026年有沒有可能會完成候選長職的特性調查與評估這個我們會努力2017年你都說你Pending的你2026年可以完成喔不要來這邊呼嚨啦我都是以臣代人啦但是大家講話不要把人當笨蛋好不好2017年你就已經講了你就說你當時就遇到困難結果你2026年跟我說你會努力做不做得到啦\n289121\t301193\t我今天劉靜卿國發會主委講的喔只要讓核廢料有能夠妥善的儲存他都不排斥用核電結果你們現在負責處理核廢料單位講話一個比一個呼嚨\n302915\t312625\t什麼時候完成?你跟我講一個時辰。什麼時候完成?參與合作什麼意思?我現在講的是你核廢料什麼時候可以處理嗎?台灣的核廢料候選場址什麼時候完成調查?什麼時候提出場址?什麼時候選出永久的核廢料的儲存場?什麼時候?\n326677\t350457\t包委員因為所有的最終處置都是一個零幣設施什麼時候嘛 所以一輩子做不到是不是那你今天劉敬卿國發會主委講的這個話白講了嘛因為他認為說只要處理好核廢料核能不排斥結果我們處理核廢料單位台電跟核安會這種態度說因為有零幣設施然後因為法規所以我不去進行處理我就擺爛\n351758\t365816\t所以我們有提出所謂的終極無尊終極無尊以前在蔡英文政府時代只要講到核每一個人下的鑰匙不敢講結果現在民進黨的政務官一個一個出來表態經濟部長出來表態\n369193\t383736\t國八會主委出來表態還有你們賴總統好朋友童子賢出來表態大家都認為說可以使用核電結果要使用核電必須要排除的問題你們一副就是無所謂的樣子然後那現在是在唱雙簧是不是?呃 包圍...所以因為...不用再報告了啦你又沒辦法解決嘛台電沒辦法次長請問一下現在核備料有辦法處理嗎?\n395083\t400089\t我跟委員很坦誠的報告核配料的處理現在是一個大問題那你有沒有去跟劉靜卿講\n415578\t426188\t我想那個劉委員他的一個發言我不太清楚劉主委來把他叫小了啦劉主委的發言我不太清楚但是我很坦誠的跟委員報告您剛剛問到的問題我們核廢料處理是個大問題大問題我就不問了啦我就是要你講出這個實話啦那請問一下那個台電我想問一下我們板橋上個月下大雨就停電怎麼回事\n443209\t452644\t這部分大概停電的部分齁大概那個應該不叫停電那個應該叫做異常就是非預期的停電嘛就是家裡沒有電可以用就停電嘛你這個也要在那邊凹喔\n454212\t470303\t你要不要去問一下小老百姓什麼叫停電就是他的電開關打開沒有電就叫停電我現在問你怎麼回事怎麼造成的我不是說缺電你不用緊張我說怎麼形狀造成的那個大概設備的故障為什麼設備的故障我告訴你好不好下大雨雨衝到所謂的那個電掀桿上面的開關就壞掉\n480471\t501365\t所以在我們5年的一個所以你們任性電網在哪裡沒有所以在我們5年的情況下部長我跟你講喔必須要做我現在不去跟你變什麼缺電問題啦你現在如果沒有把電網把它弄好一樣會停電啦台電編了1000億說要做任性電網結果做的結果還是一樣夏大宇停電怎麼樣停電潰線跳脫停電小動物停電\n503117\t527757\t你還讓人家沒有電可以用啊我想問一下到底什麼時候可以要把這個韌性電網做好你們預計還要花多少錢才有辦法把韌性電網做好預計還要花多少錢目前來講我們大概有一個五年的計畫在走大概多少錢逐年編列多少錢逐年編列多少對應該差不多一千億到底逐年編列一千億不是逐年總共大概要花\n530106\t555533\t總共花了兩千億就做得好嗎目前來講大概因為你花一千億做不好嘛那你現在要增加一千億所以其實有一項剛才委員有提到就是外在的我們會去做外在你現在連下雨都會停電外在而且我覺得每次怪小動物我也小動物感到不值啊你不能做一些防弊設施讓小動物不要進來嗎小動物進來我們人類是停電小動物是生命的喪屍啊\n556753\t563615\t所以我們也在做包覆這個問題你講多久了台電因為你們就補貼太多發電成本嘛所以不願意花錢去做電網嘛然後一直講那個再生能源再生能源過去8年成長多少多少過去8年再生能源成長多少\n578302\t593737\t我想我們再生能源過去8年成長了數十倍5%啦數十倍那是設置量5%對嘛你設定2025年非核家園再生能源是20%結果你再生能源只有增加5%你還有10%發電的數那我剛剛提到設置容量\n600763\t620940\t不用不用跟你不用跟我講對在深圳現在就是成長造成的障礙瓶頸嘛所以才有那麼多人講核電嘛好不好我剛剛講那些問題我不知道為什麼今天來備詢的官員都沒有準備就來就來備詢然後一問三不知時間拖完之後然後就沒事了\n622777\t651560\t現在,還是要提醒你們啦今天我相信剛剛很多委員都有提到核電的問題現在是所有你們的長官都認為說核電應該要繼續使用所以這個部分你們要認真啦不是說我一問你們那個核電廠的核廢料的廠子就一問三不知不做沒關係啦林併設施然後什麼講一大堆理由這個沒有處理就算你們的長官想要研議核電也都很困難啦好謝謝\n652818\t652838\t謝謝委員\n","txt":"麻煩請那個核安會主委還有我們經濟部次長還有主委還有次長謝謝主委好 次長好\n我今天早上看報紙就是那個國安會主委劉靜卿他說他不排斥使用核能那他講一個非常關鍵的東西他說只要能夠把核廢料做良好的儲存他就不排斥核能所以換句話說國安會主委的認定裡面他認為核安不是太大的問題否則他就會把核安這個條件把它加進去\n他只有單純針對核廢料的良好儲存這一塊他有疑慮那所以這個當然我覺得這個問題就簡化很多了就已經簡化很多那剛好我們核安會針對我們核廢料的終極儲存其實有個計劃上次我有問但是當時好像主委我們那時候時間不夠了沒有問得很清楚我再一次秀這個表格\n這是我們核安會的一個表格2022的修訂版他有針對我們最終核廢料的處置場所有一些計劃比如說在2017年必須要先提出候選場址的建議調查區域先請教一下2017年提出的候選場址的建議調查區域是哪裡\n跟委員報告齁 這個部分是經濟部經濟部 那經濟部次長回答一下委員我是不是可以請我們台電公司這邊來回答一下 可以因為主要是高階核廢料就用過核燃料的這一塊的最終處置的部分\n因為必須...必須要整個台灣去做所謂的地質調查跟地質專探可是因為他沒有法源目前來講沒有法源依據所以台電公司其實在做任何的地質調查跟地質的專探呢其實上都會受到民間的這個...沒有沒有我只問你回答好不好是所以目前...你知道我的問題是什麼嗎我知道所以目前來講是沒有...並沒有調查是吧對就是因為沒有法源的依據那這個計畫是寫好玩的喔\n你2017年說要提出候選場址的建議調查區域2017離現在都已經7年了2017有提出來2017你必須要做整個地質的專談地質的調查那這一塊因為在那我先問你2017你提出來的是哪裡嗎\n呃有我沒有我沒有呃當時有嘗試的要去做比如像金門啊或者金門花蓮花蓮金門花蓮對本來有考慮要把核廢料放在金門跟花蓮沒有不是這樣就是說先做初步的所謂的地質調查嗎對嘛那你先選你覺得有可能放地方才去調查不然掉幹嘛然後那現在經過7年那有什麼進展嗎\n目前來講我們大概因為在整個的組織本來這個立法的部分是在核安會就是以前的原能會但是原能會後來改制以後變核安會以後所以目前這個所謂立法的已經歸到經濟部這邊來所以目前來講\n不好意思我時間很有限你可不可以針對我問題那麼簡單所以因為在立法因為沒有法院去所以沒有調查嘛現在是這個意思是不是目前來講就沒有做事嘛好啦那請教那所以後面那個計畫全部pending嗎不是所以我們先技術工程就是說我們先跟科技合作好沒關係您是副總嘛對不對那請教一下2025年根據你這個計畫2025年要完成組織廠概念設計那現在進行怎麼樣\n你有哪些概念設計在進行目前的部分我們大概就參與整個國際的合作包括分欄的因為分欄他大概今年來講他的最終處置的部分會做私運船計劃所以我們大概今年的下半年會參與他的一個私運船計劃會參與分欄的私運計劃對那請教一下2025年你有可能會完成概念想設計嗎\n目前我們會在努力當然最基礎還是要有一個法院的意見2026年有沒有可能會完成候選長職的特性調查與評估這個我們會努力2017年你都說你Pending的你2026年可以完成喔不要來這邊呼嚨啦我都是以臣代人啦但是大家講話不要把人當笨蛋好不好2017年你就已經講了你就說你當時就遇到困難結果你2026年跟我說你會努力做不做得到啦\n我今天劉靜卿國發會主委講的喔只要讓核廢料有能夠妥善的儲存他都不排斥用核電結果你們現在負責處理核廢料單位講話一個比一個呼嚨\n什麼時候完成?你跟我講一個時辰。什麼時候完成?參與合作什麼意思?我現在講的是你核廢料什麼時候可以處理嗎?台灣的核廢料候選場址什麼時候完成調查?什麼時候提出場址?什麼時候選出永久的核廢料的儲存場?什麼時候?\n包委員因為所有的最終處置都是一個零幣設施什麼時候嘛 所以一輩子做不到是不是那你今天劉敬卿國發會主委講的這個話白講了嘛因為他認為說只要處理好核廢料核能不排斥結果我們處理核廢料單位台電跟核安會這種態度說因為有零幣設施然後因為法規所以我不去進行處理我就擺爛\n所以我們有提出所謂的終極無尊終極無尊以前在蔡英文政府時代只要講到核每一個人下的鑰匙不敢講結果現在民進黨的政務官一個一個出來表態經濟部長出來表態\n國八會主委出來表態還有你們賴總統好朋友童子賢出來表態大家都認為說可以使用核電結果要使用核電必須要排除的問題你們一副就是無所謂的樣子然後那現在是在唱雙簧是不是?呃 包圍...所以因為...不用再報告了啦你又沒辦法解決嘛台電沒辦法次長請問一下現在核備料有辦法處理嗎?\n我跟委員很坦誠的報告核配料的處理現在是一個大問題那你有沒有去跟劉靜卿講\n我想那個劉委員他的一個發言我不太清楚劉主委來把他叫小了啦劉主委的發言我不太清楚但是我很坦誠的跟委員報告您剛剛問到的問題我們核廢料處理是個大問題大問題我就不問了啦我就是要你講出這個實話啦那請問一下那個台電我想問一下我們板橋上個月下大雨就停電怎麼回事\n這部分大概停電的部分齁大概那個應該不叫停電那個應該叫做異常就是非預期的停電嘛就是家裡沒有電可以用就停電嘛你這個也要在那邊凹喔\n你要不要去問一下小老百姓什麼叫停電就是他的電開關打開沒有電就叫停電我現在問你怎麼回事怎麼造成的我不是說缺電你不用緊張我說怎麼形狀造成的那個大概設備的故障為什麼設備的故障我告訴你好不好下大雨雨衝到所謂的那個電掀桿上面的開關就壞掉\n所以在我們5年的一個所以你們任性電網在哪裡沒有所以在我們5年的情況下部長我跟你講喔必須要做我現在不去跟你變什麼缺電問題啦你現在如果沒有把電網把它弄好一樣會停電啦台電編了1000億說要做任性電網結果做的結果還是一樣夏大宇停電怎麼樣停電潰線跳脫停電小動物停電\n你還讓人家沒有電可以用啊我想問一下到底什麼時候可以要把這個韌性電網做好你們預計還要花多少錢才有辦法把韌性電網做好預計還要花多少錢目前來講我們大概有一個五年的計畫在走大概多少錢逐年編列多少錢逐年編列多少對應該差不多一千億到底逐年編列一千億不是逐年總共大概要花\n總共花了兩千億就做得好嗎目前來講大概因為你花一千億做不好嘛那你現在要增加一千億所以其實有一項剛才委員有提到就是外在的我們會去做外在你現在連下雨都會停電外在而且我覺得每次怪小動物我也小動物感到不值啊你不能做一些防弊設施讓小動物不要進來嗎小動物進來我們人類是停電小動物是生命的喪屍啊\n所以我們也在做包覆這個問題你講多久了台電因為你們就補貼太多發電成本嘛所以不願意花錢去做電網嘛然後一直講那個再生能源再生能源過去8年成長多少多少過去8年再生能源成長多少\n我想我們再生能源過去8年成長了數十倍5%啦數十倍那是設置量5%對嘛你設定2025年非核家園再生能源是20%結果你再生能源只有增加5%你還有10%發電的數那我剛剛提到設置容量\n不用不用跟你不用跟我講對在深圳現在就是成長造成的障礙瓶頸嘛所以才有那麼多人講核電嘛好不好我剛剛講那些問題我不知道為什麼今天來備詢的官員都沒有準備就來就來備詢然後一問三不知時間拖完之後然後就沒事了\n現在,還是要提醒你們啦今天我相信剛剛很多委員都有提到核電的問題現在是所有你們的長官都認為說核電應該要繼續使用所以這個部分你們要認真啦不是說我一問你們那個核電廠的核廢料的廠子就一問三不知不做沒關係啦林併設施然後什麼講一大堆理由這個沒有處理就算你們的長官想要研議核電也都很困難啦好謝謝\n謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:11.773 --> 00:17.480\n麻 煩 請 那 個 核 安 會 主 委 還 有 我 們 經 濟 部 次 長 還 有 主 委 還 有 次 長 謝 謝 主 委 好 次 長 好\n\n00:22.737 --> 00:42.568\n我 今 天 早 上 看 報 紙 就 是 那 個 國 安 會 主 委 劉 靜 卿 他 說 他 不 排 斥 使 用 核 能 那 他 講 一 個 非 常 關 鍵 的 東 西 他 說 只 要 能 夠 把 核 廢 料 做 良 好 的 儲 存 他 就 不 排 斥 核 能 所 以 換 句 話 說 國 安 會 主 委 的 認 定 裡 面 他 認 為 核 安 不 是 太 大 的 問 題 否 則 他 就 會 把 核 安 這 個 條 件 把 它 加 進 去\n\n00:44.210 --> 01:09.992\n他 只 有 單 純 針 對 核 廢 料 的 良 好 儲 存 這 一 塊 他 有 疑 慮 那 所 以 這 個 當 然 我 覺 得 這 個 問 題 就 簡 化 很 多 了 就 已 經 簡 化 很 多 那 剛 好 我 們 核 安 會 針 對 我 們 核 廢 料 的 終 極 儲 存 其 實 有 個 計 劃 上 次 我 有 問 但 是 當 時 好 像 主 委 我 們 那 時 候 時 間 不 夠 了 沒 有 問 得 很 清 楚 我 再 一 次 秀 這 個 表 格\n\n01:10.732 --> 01:31.883\n這 是 我 們 核 安 會 的 一 個 表 格 2 0 2 2 的 修 訂 版 他 有 針 對 我 們 最 終 核 廢 料 的 處 置 場 所 有 一 些 計 劃 比 如 說 在 2 0 1 7 年 必 須 要 先 提 出 候 選 場 址 的 建 議 調 查 區 域 先 請 教 一 下 2 0 1 7 年 提 出 的 候 選 場 址 的 建 議 調 查 區 域 是 哪 裡\n\n01:34.880 --> 01:53.018\n跟 委 員 報 告 齁 這 個 部 分 是 經 濟 部 經 濟 部 那 經 濟 部 次 長 回 答 一 下 委 員 我 是 不 是 可 以 請 我 們 台 電 公 司 這 邊 來 回 答 一 下 可 以 因 為 主 要 是 高 階 核 廢 料 就 用 過 核 燃 料 的 這 一 塊 的 最 終 處 置 的 部 分\n\n01:54.435 --> 02:20.232\n因 為 必 須 . . . 必 須 要 整 個 台 灣 去 做 所 謂 的 地 質 調 查 跟 地 質 專 探 可 是 因 為 他 沒 有 法 源 目 前 來 講 沒 有 法 源 依 據 所 以 台 電 公 司 其 實 在 做 任 何 的 地 質 調 查 跟 地 質 的 專 探 呢 其 實 上 都 會 受 到 民 間 的 這 個 . . . 沒 有 沒 有 我 只 問 你 回 答 好 不 好 是 所 以 目 前 . . . 你 知 道 我 的 問 題 是 什 麼 嗎 我 知 道 所 以 目 前 來 講 是 沒 有 . . . 並 沒 有 調 查 是 吧 對 就 是 因 為 沒 有 法 源 的 依 據 那 這 個 計 畫 是 寫 好 玩 的 喔\n\n02:23.579 --> 02:39.436\n你 2 0 1 7 年 說 要 提 出 候 選 場 址 的 建 議 調 查 區 域 2 0 1 7 離 現 在 都 已 經 7 年 了 2 0 1 7 有 提 出 來 2 0 1 7 你 必 須 要 做 整 個 地 質 的 專 談 地 質 的 調 查 那 這 一 塊 因 為 在 那 我 先 問 你 2 0 1 7 你 提 出 來 的 是 哪 裡 嗎\n\n02:43.050 --> 03:05.321\n呃 有 我 沒 有 我 沒 有 呃 當 時 有 嘗 試 的 要 去 做 比 如 像 金 門 啊 或 者 金 門 花 蓮 花 蓮 金 門 花 蓮 對 本 來 有 考 慮 要 把 核 廢 料 放 在 金 門 跟 花 蓮 沒 有 不 是 這 樣 就 是 說 先 做 初 步 的 所 謂 的 地 質 調 查 嗎 對 嘛 那 你 先 選 你 覺 得 有 可 能 放 地 方 才 去 調 查 不 然 掉 幹 嘛 然 後 那 現 在 經 過 7 年 那 有 什 麼 進 展 嗎\n\n03:08.295 --> 03:22.852\n目 前 來 講 我 們 大 概 因 為 在 整 個 的 組 織 本 來 這 個 立 法 的 部 分 是 在 核 安 會 就 是 以 前 的 原 能 會 但 是 原 能 會 後 來 改 制 以 後 變 核 安 會 以 後 所 以 目 前 這 個 所 謂 立 法 的 已 經 歸 到 經 濟 部 這 邊 來 所 以 目 前 來 講\n\n03:25.535 --> 03:45.990\n不 好 意 思 我 時 間 很 有 限 你 可 不 可 以 針 對 我 問 題 那 麼 簡 單 所 以 因 為 在 立 法 因 為 沒 有 法 院 去 所 以 沒 有 調 查 嘛 現 在 是 這 個 意 思 是 不 是 目 前 來 講 就 沒 有 做 事 嘛 好 啦 那 請 教 那 所 以 後 面 那 個 計 畫 全 部 p e n d i n g 嗎 不 是 所 以 我 們 先 技 術 工 程 就 是 說 我 們 先 跟 科 技 合 作 好 沒 關 係 您 是 副 總 嘛 對 不 對 那 請 教 一 下 2 0 2 5 年 根 據 你 這 個 計 畫 2 0 2 5 年 要 完 成 組 織 廠 概 念 設 計 那 現 在 進 行 怎 麼 樣\n\n03:53.529 --> 04:15.367\n你 有 哪 些 概 念 設 計 在 進 行 目 前 的 部 分 我 們 大 概 就 參 與 整 個 國 際 的 合 作 包 括 分 欄 的 因 為 分 欄 他 大 概 今 年 來 講 他 的 最 終 處 置 的 部 分 會 做 私 運 船 計 劃 所 以 我 們 大 概 今 年 的 下 半 年 會 參 與 他 的 一 個 私 運 船 計 劃 會 參 與 分 欄 的 私 運 計 劃 對 那 請 教 一 下 2 0 2 5 年 你 有 可 能 會 完 成 概 念 想 設 計 嗎\n\n04:16.993 --> 04:39.484\n目 前 我 們 會 在 努 力 當 然 最 基 礎 還 是 要 有 一 個 法 院 的 意 見 2 0 2 6 年 有 沒 有 可 能 會 完 成 候 選 長 職 的 特 性 調 查 與 評 估 這 個 我 們 會 努 力 2 0 1 7 年 你 都 說 你 P e n d i n g 的 你 2 0 2 6 年 可 以 完 成 喔 不 要 來 這 邊 呼 嚨 啦 我 都 是 以 臣 代 人 啦 但 是 大 家 講 話 不 要 把 人 當 笨 蛋 好 不 好 2 0 1 7 年 你 就 已 經 講 了 你 就 說 你 當 時 就 遇 到 困 難 結 果 你 2 0 2 6 年 跟 我 說 你 會 努 力 做 不 做 得 到 啦\n\n04:49.121 --> 05:01.193\n我 今 天 劉 靜 卿 國 發 會 主 委 講 的 喔 只 要 讓 核 廢 料 有 能 夠 妥 善 的 儲 存 他 都 不 排 斥 用 核 電 結 果 你 們 現 在 負 責 處 理 核 廢 料 單 位 講 話 一 個 比 一 個 呼 嚨\n\n05:02.915 --> 05:12.625\n什 麼 時 候 完 成 ? 你 跟 我 講 一 個 時 辰 。 什 麼 時 候 完 成 ? 參 與 合 作 什 麼 意 思 ? 我 現 在 講 的 是 你 核 廢 料 什 麼 時 候 可 以 處 理 嗎 ? 台 灣 的 核 廢 料 候 選 場 址 什 麼 時 候 完 成 調 查 ? 什 麼 時 候 提 出 場 址 ? 什 麼 時 候 選 出 永 久 的 核 廢 料 的 儲 存 場 ? 什 麼 時 候 ?\n\n05:26.677 --> 05:50.457\n包 委 員 因 為 所 有 的 最 終 處 置 都 是 一 個 零 幣 設 施 什 麼 時 候 嘛 所 以 一 輩 子 做 不 到 是 不 是 那 你 今 天 劉 敬 卿 國 發 會 主 委 講 的 這 個 話 白 講 了 嘛 因 為 他 認 為 說 只 要 處 理 好 核 廢 料 核 能 不 排 斥 結 果 我 們 處 理 核 廢 料 單 位 台 電 跟 核 安 會 這 種 態 度 說 因 為 有 零 幣 設 施 然 後 因 為 法 規 所 以 我 不 去 進 行 處 理 我 就 擺 爛\n\n05:51.758 --> 06:05.816\n所 以 我 們 有 提 出 所 謂 的 終 極 無 尊 終 極 無 尊 以 前 在 蔡 英 文 政 府 時 代 只 要 講 到 核 每 一 個 人 下 的 鑰 匙 不 敢 講 結 果 現 在 民 進 黨 的 政 務 官 一 個 一 個 出 來 表 態 經 濟 部 長 出 來 表 態\n\n06:09.193 --> 06:23.736\n國 八 會 主 委 出 來 表 態 還 有 你 們 賴 總 統 好 朋 友 童 子 賢 出 來 表 態 大 家 都 認 為 說 可 以 使 用 核 電 結 果 要 使 用 核 電 必 須 要 排 除 的 問 題 你 們 一 副 就 是 無 所 謂 的 樣 子 然 後 那 現 在 是 在 唱 雙 簧 是 不 是 ? 呃 包 圍 . . . 所 以 因 為 . . . 不 用 再 報 告 了 啦 你 又 沒 辦 法 解 決 嘛 台 電 沒 辦 法 次 長 請 問 一 下 現 在 核 備 料 有 辦 法 處 理 嗎 ?\n\n06:35.083 --> 06:40.089\n我 跟 委 員 很 坦 誠 的 報 告 核 配 料 的 處 理 現 在 是 一 個 大 問 題 那 你 有 沒 有 去 跟 劉 靜 卿 講\n\n06:55.578 --> 07:06.188\n我 想 那 個 劉 委 員 他 的 一 個 發 言 我 不 太 清 楚 劉 主 委 來 把 他 叫 小 了 啦 劉 主 委 的 發 言 我 不 太 清 楚 但 是 我 很 坦 誠 的 跟 委 員 報 告 您 剛 剛 問 到 的 問 題 我 們 核 廢 料 處 理 是 個 大 問 題 大 問 題 我 就 不 問 了 啦 我 就 是 要 你 講 出 這 個 實 話 啦 那 請 問 一 下 那 個 台 電 我 想 問 一 下 我 們 板 橋 上 個 月 下 大 雨 就 停 電 怎 麼 回 事\n\n07:23.209 --> 07:32.644\n這 部 分 大 概 停 電 的 部 分 齁 大 概 那 個 應 該 不 叫 停 電 那 個 應 該 叫 做 異 常 就 是 非 預 期 的 停 電 嘛 就 是 家 裡 沒 有 電 可 以 用 就 停 電 嘛 你 這 個 也 要 在 那 邊 凹 喔\n\n07:34.212 --> 07:50.303\n你 要 不 要 去 問 一 下 小 老 百 姓 什 麼 叫 停 電 就 是 他 的 電 開 關 打 開 沒 有 電 就 叫 停 電 我 現 在 問 你 怎 麼 回 事 怎 麼 造 成 的 我 不 是 說 缺 電 你 不 用 緊 張 我 說 怎 麼 形 狀 造 成 的 那 個 大 概 設 備 的 故 障 為 什 麼 設 備 的 故 障 我 告 訴 你 好 不 好 下 大 雨 雨 衝 到 所 謂 的 那 個 電 掀 桿 上 面 的 開 關 就 壞 掉\n\n08:00.471 --> 08:21.365\n所 以 在 我 們 5 年 的 一 個 所 以 你 們 任 性 電 網 在 哪 裡 沒 有 所 以 在 我 們 5 年 的 情 況 下 部 長 我 跟 你 講 喔 必 須 要 做 我 現 在 不 去 跟 你 變 什 麼 缺 電 問 題 啦 你 現 在 如 果 沒 有 把 電 網 把 它 弄 好 一 樣 會 停 電 啦 台 電 編 了 1 0 0 0 億 說 要 做 任 性 電 網 結 果 做 的 結 果 還 是 一 樣 夏 大 宇 停 電 怎 麼 樣 停 電 潰 線 跳 脫 停 電 小 動 物 停 電\n\n08:23.117 --> 08:47.757\n你 還 讓 人 家 沒 有 電 可 以 用 啊 我 想 問 一 下 到 底 什 麼 時 候 可 以 要 把 這 個 韌 性 電 網 做 好 你 們 預 計 還 要 花 多 少 錢 才 有 辦 法 把 韌 性 電 網 做 好 預 計 還 要 花 多 少 錢 目 前 來 講 我 們 大 概 有 一 個 五 年 的 計 畫 在 走 大 概 多 少 錢 逐 年 編 列 多 少 錢 逐 年 編 列 多 少 對 應 該 差 不 多 一 千 億 到 底 逐 年 編 列 一 千 億 不 是 逐 年 總 共 大 概 要 花\n\n08:50.106 --> 09:15.533\n總 共 花 了 兩 千 億 就 做 得 好 嗎 目 前 來 講 大 概 因 為 你 花 一 千 億 做 不 好 嘛 那 你 現 在 要 增 加 一 千 億 所 以 其 實 有 一 項 剛 才 委 員 有 提 到 就 是 外 在 的 我 們 會 去 做 外 在 你 現 在 連 下 雨 都 會 停 電 外 在 而 且 我 覺 得 每 次 怪 小 動 物 我 也 小 動 物 感 到 不 值 啊 你 不 能 做 一 些 防 弊 設 施 讓 小 動 物 不 要 進 來 嗎 小 動 物 進 來 我 們 人 類 是 停 電 小 動 物 是 生 命 的 喪 屍 啊\n\n09:16.753 --> 09:23.615\n所 以 我 們 也 在 做 包 覆 這 個 問 題 你 講 多 久 了 台 電 因 為 你 們 就 補 貼 太 多 發 電 成 本 嘛 所 以 不 願 意 花 錢 去 做 電 網 嘛 然 後 一 直 講 那 個 再 生 能 源 再 生 能 源 過 去 8 年 成 長 多 少 多 少 過 去 8 年 再 生 能 源 成 長 多 少\n\n09:38.302 --> 09:53.737\n我 想 我 們 再 生 能 源 過 去 8 年 成 長 了 數 十 倍 5 % 啦 數 十 倍 那 是 設 置 量 5 % 對 嘛 你 設 定 2 0 2 5 年 非 核 家 園 再 生 能 源 是 2 0 % 結 果 你 再 生 能 源 只 有 增 加 5 % 你 還 有 1 0 % 發 電 的 數 那 我 剛 剛 提 到 設 置 容 量\n\n10:00.763 --> 10:20.940\n不 用 不 用 跟 你 不 用 跟 我 講 對 在 深 圳 現 在 就 是 成 長 造 成 的 障 礙 瓶 頸 嘛 所 以 才 有 那 麼 多 人 講 核 電 嘛 好 不 好 我 剛 剛 講 那 些 問 題 我 不 知 道 為 什 麼 今 天 來 備 詢 的 官 員 都 沒 有 準 備 就 來 就 來 備 詢 然 後 一 問 三 不 知 時 間 拖 完 之 後 然 後 就 沒 事 了\n\n10:22.777 --> 10:51.560\n現 在 , 還 是 要 提 醒 你 們 啦 今 天 我 相 信 剛 剛 很 多 委 員 都 有 提 到 核 電 的 問 題 現 在 是 所 有 你 們 的 長 官 都 認 為 說 核 電 應 該 要 繼 續 使 用 所 以 這 個 部 分 你 們 要 認 真 啦 不 是 說 我 一 問 你 們 那 個 核 電 廠 的 核 廢 料 的 廠 子 就 一 問 三 不 知 不 做 沒 關 係 啦 林 併 設 施 然 後 什 麼 講 一 大 堆 理 由 這 個 沒 有 處 理 就 算 你 們 的 長 官 想 要 研 議 核 電 也 都 很 困 難 啦 好 謝 謝\n\n10:52.818 --> 10:52.838\n謝 謝 委 員\n\n","segments":[{"start":11.773,"end":17.48,"text":"麻煩請那個核安會主委還有我們經濟部次長還有主委還有次長謝謝主委好 次長好"},{"start":22.737,"end":42.568,"text":"我今天早上看報紙就是那個國安會主委劉靜卿他說他不排斥使用核能那他講一個非常關鍵的東西他說只要能夠把核廢料做良好的儲存他就不排斥核能所以換句話說國安會主委的認定裡面他認為核安不是太大的問題否則他就會把核安這個條件把它加進去"},{"start":44.21,"end":69.992,"text":"他只有單純針對核廢料的良好儲存這一塊他有疑慮那所以這個當然我覺得這個問題就簡化很多了就已經簡化很多那剛好我們核安會針對我們核廢料的終極儲存其實有個計劃上次我有問但是當時好像主委我們那時候時間不夠了沒有問得很清楚我再一次秀這個表格"},{"start":70.732,"end":91.883,"text":"這是我們核安會的一個表格2022的修訂版他有針對我們最終核廢料的處置場所有一些計劃比如說在2017年必須要先提出候選場址的建議調查區域先請教一下2017年提出的候選場址的建議調查區域是哪裡"},{"start":94.88,"end":113.018,"text":"跟委員報告齁 這個部分是經濟部經濟部 那經濟部次長回答一下委員我是不是可以請我們台電公司這邊來回答一下 可以因為主要是高階核廢料就用過核燃料的這一塊的最終處置的部分"},{"start":114.435,"end":140.232,"text":"因為必須...必須要整個台灣去做所謂的地質調查跟地質專探可是因為他沒有法源目前來講沒有法源依據所以台電公司其實在做任何的地質調查跟地質的專探呢其實上都會受到民間的這個...沒有沒有我只問你回答好不好是所以目前...你知道我的問題是什麼嗎我知道所以目前來講是沒有...並沒有調查是吧對就是因為沒有法源的依據那這個計畫是寫好玩的喔"},{"start":143.579,"end":159.436,"text":"你2017年說要提出候選場址的建議調查區域2017離現在都已經7年了2017有提出來2017你必須要做整個地質的專談地質的調查那這一塊因為在那我先問你2017你提出來的是哪裡嗎"},{"start":163.05,"end":185.321,"text":"呃有我沒有我沒有呃當時有嘗試的要去做比如像金門啊或者金門花蓮花蓮金門花蓮對本來有考慮要把核廢料放在金門跟花蓮沒有不是這樣就是說先做初步的所謂的地質調查嗎對嘛那你先選你覺得有可能放地方才去調查不然掉幹嘛然後那現在經過7年那有什麼進展嗎"},{"start":188.295,"end":202.852,"text":"目前來講我們大概因為在整個的組織本來這個立法的部分是在核安會就是以前的原能會但是原能會後來改制以後變核安會以後所以目前這個所謂立法的已經歸到經濟部這邊來所以目前來講"},{"start":205.535,"end":225.99,"text":"不好意思我時間很有限你可不可以針對我問題那麼簡單所以因為在立法因為沒有法院去所以沒有調查嘛現在是這個意思是不是目前來講就沒有做事嘛好啦那請教那所以後面那個計畫全部pending嗎不是所以我們先技術工程就是說我們先跟科技合作好沒關係您是副總嘛對不對那請教一下2025年根據你這個計畫2025年要完成組織廠概念設計那現在進行怎麼樣"},{"start":233.529,"end":255.367,"text":"你有哪些概念設計在進行目前的部分我們大概就參與整個國際的合作包括分欄的因為分欄他大概今年來講他的最終處置的部分會做私運船計劃所以我們大概今年的下半年會參與他的一個私運船計劃會參與分欄的私運計劃對那請教一下2025年你有可能會完成概念想設計嗎"},{"start":256.993,"end":279.484,"text":"目前我們會在努力當然最基礎還是要有一個法院的意見2026年有沒有可能會完成候選長職的特性調查與評估這個我們會努力2017年你都說你Pending的你2026年可以完成喔不要來這邊呼嚨啦我都是以臣代人啦但是大家講話不要把人當笨蛋好不好2017年你就已經講了你就說你當時就遇到困難結果你2026年跟我說你會努力做不做得到啦"},{"start":289.121,"end":301.193,"text":"我今天劉靜卿國發會主委講的喔只要讓核廢料有能夠妥善的儲存他都不排斥用核電結果你們現在負責處理核廢料單位講話一個比一個呼嚨"},{"start":302.915,"end":312.625,"text":"什麼時候完成?你跟我講一個時辰。什麼時候完成?參與合作什麼意思?我現在講的是你核廢料什麼時候可以處理嗎?台灣的核廢料候選場址什麼時候完成調查?什麼時候提出場址?什麼時候選出永久的核廢料的儲存場?什麼時候?"},{"start":326.677,"end":350.457,"text":"包委員因為所有的最終處置都是一個零幣設施什麼時候嘛 所以一輩子做不到是不是那你今天劉敬卿國發會主委講的這個話白講了嘛因為他認為說只要處理好核廢料核能不排斥結果我們處理核廢料單位台電跟核安會這種態度說因為有零幣設施然後因為法規所以我不去進行處理我就擺爛"},{"start":351.758,"end":365.816,"text":"所以我們有提出所謂的終極無尊終極無尊以前在蔡英文政府時代只要講到核每一個人下的鑰匙不敢講結果現在民進黨的政務官一個一個出來表態經濟部長出來表態"},{"start":369.193,"end":383.736,"text":"國八會主委出來表態還有你們賴總統好朋友童子賢出來表態大家都認為說可以使用核電結果要使用核電必須要排除的問題你們一副就是無所謂的樣子然後那現在是在唱雙簧是不是?呃 包圍...所以因為...不用再報告了啦你又沒辦法解決嘛台電沒辦法次長請問一下現在核備料有辦法處理嗎?"},{"start":395.083,"end":400.089,"text":"我跟委員很坦誠的報告核配料的處理現在是一個大問題那你有沒有去跟劉靜卿講"},{"start":415.578,"end":426.188,"text":"我想那個劉委員他的一個發言我不太清楚劉主委來把他叫小了啦劉主委的發言我不太清楚但是我很坦誠的跟委員報告您剛剛問到的問題我們核廢料處理是個大問題大問題我就不問了啦我就是要你講出這個實話啦那請問一下那個台電我想問一下我們板橋上個月下大雨就停電怎麼回事"},{"start":443.209,"end":452.644,"text":"這部分大概停電的部分齁大概那個應該不叫停電那個應該叫做異常就是非預期的停電嘛就是家裡沒有電可以用就停電嘛你這個也要在那邊凹喔"},{"start":454.212,"end":470.303,"text":"你要不要去問一下小老百姓什麼叫停電就是他的電開關打開沒有電就叫停電我現在問你怎麼回事怎麼造成的我不是說缺電你不用緊張我說怎麼形狀造成的那個大概設備的故障為什麼設備的故障我告訴你好不好下大雨雨衝到所謂的那個電掀桿上面的開關就壞掉"},{"start":480.471,"end":501.365,"text":"所以在我們5年的一個所以你們任性電網在哪裡沒有所以在我們5年的情況下部長我跟你講喔必須要做我現在不去跟你變什麼缺電問題啦你現在如果沒有把電網把它弄好一樣會停電啦台電編了1000億說要做任性電網結果做的結果還是一樣夏大宇停電怎麼樣停電潰線跳脫停電小動物停電"},{"start":503.117,"end":527.757,"text":"你還讓人家沒有電可以用啊我想問一下到底什麼時候可以要把這個韌性電網做好你們預計還要花多少錢才有辦法把韌性電網做好預計還要花多少錢目前來講我們大概有一個五年的計畫在走大概多少錢逐年編列多少錢逐年編列多少對應該差不多一千億到底逐年編列一千億不是逐年總共大概要花"},{"start":530.106,"end":555.533,"text":"總共花了兩千億就做得好嗎目前來講大概因為你花一千億做不好嘛那你現在要增加一千億所以其實有一項剛才委員有提到就是外在的我們會去做外在你現在連下雨都會停電外在而且我覺得每次怪小動物我也小動物感到不值啊你不能做一些防弊設施讓小動物不要進來嗎小動物進來我們人類是停電小動物是生命的喪屍啊"},{"start":556.753,"end":563.615,"text":"所以我們也在做包覆這個問題你講多久了台電因為你們就補貼太多發電成本嘛所以不願意花錢去做電網嘛然後一直講那個再生能源再生能源過去8年成長多少多少過去8年再生能源成長多少"},{"start":578.302,"end":593.737,"text":"我想我們再生能源過去8年成長了數十倍5%啦數十倍那是設置量5%對嘛你設定2025年非核家園再生能源是20%結果你再生能源只有增加5%你還有10%發電的數那我剛剛提到設置容量"},{"start":600.763,"end":620.94,"text":"不用不用跟你不用跟我講對在深圳現在就是成長造成的障礙瓶頸嘛所以才有那麼多人講核電嘛好不好我剛剛講那些問題我不知道為什麼今天來備詢的官員都沒有準備就來就來備詢然後一問三不知時間拖完之後然後就沒事了"},{"start":622.777,"end":651.56,"text":"現在,還是要提醒你們啦今天我相信剛剛很多委員都有提到核電的問題現在是所有你們的長官都認為說核電應該要繼續使用所以這個部分你們要認真啦不是說我一問你們那個核電廠的核廢料的廠子就一問三不知不做沒關係啦林併設施然後什麼講一大堆理由這個沒有處理就算你們的長官想要研議核電也都很困難啦好謝謝"},{"start":652.818,"end":652.838,"text":"謝謝委員"}]}}}}