{"id":153195,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153195","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/2c978e04ca5e1331412b834ce436d7fad0e137800dc086ea333bc5d453e1b195cd7ea65aa09343765ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳秀寳","委員發言時間":"10:04:10 - 10:14:39","影片長度":"00:10:29","會議時間":"2024-05-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽及經濟部次長列席就「展望全球核能發電趨勢，我國核電廠延役推動現況暨發展新型核能成為永續能源之規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【5月27日及29日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-29","duration":629,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-14"},"end_time":"2024-05-29T10:14:39+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-29T10:04:10+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":328,"blocks":[["陳委員秀寳：（10時4分）謝謝主席。請核安會陳主委、經濟部林次長以及台電許副總經理。"],["主席：好。請台電、經濟部次長、陳主委，謝謝。"],["林次長全能：委員好。"],["陳委員秀寳：早安。因為今天時間不多，所以請大家一起上來，節省時間。首先本席要請教次長，臺灣受制於海島型的國家結構，所以我們電力必須自給自足，能源專家有提醒，臺灣會有缺電的危機，必須儘早做準備。所以本席想請教次長，臺灣缺不缺電？"],["林次長全能：我剛剛提過，我們每年都在做未來5到10年的供電需求評估，依據這個評估，我們會把供電的相關建設做好。所以依據這樣的計畫，經過台電同仁和經濟部同仁的努力，我們認為沒有缺電的問題。"],["陳委員秀寳：所以你們有在做評估、有在努力，也有持續做相關建設。但是就在上個月，桃園4月的時候跳電35次引發民怨，上個禮拜23日早上，臺北士林有1.2萬戶跳電，連故宮北院都無電可用，讓外國來的遊客很傻眼，下午換成萬華跳電，26日的時候，新竹香山有1,300戶大停電。雖然台電當時有說明是天然災害及人為因素，但是一定會被誤解成缺電。所以是相關的設施、管理，還是人力不足？你們該努力的地方到底在哪裡？你們有釐清嗎？"],["林次長全能：關於這個部分，確實，出現很多的跳電狀況，但我們都有掌握問題，就拿桃園地區來看，事實上因為桃園人口成長，近幾年平均大概11%左右，但我們電力網只成長4%，這樣的差距就讓整個供電狀況……"],["陳委員秀寳：所以就是你們的設施提升不足啊！"],["林次長全能：是。另外一個部分，我們也加速提升設施，所以才有加強電力網的計畫，並加速相關的推動工作。"],["陳委員秀寳：次長，既然我們覺得不缺電，那麼就要確保供電無虞不跳電，因為這是給民眾的承諾。"],["林次長全能：這是我們要做到的，沒錯。"],["陳委員秀寳：對。臺灣在世界產業的供應鏈上扮演非常重要的角色，企業和民眾都需要穩定的供電，所以本席要求，你們要儘快、儘速努力發展多元的綠能智慧電網，才能夠強化我們電力系統的韌性。蔡英文總統在今年卸任前的最後一次元旦記者會強調，非核家園不能走回頭路，臺灣的社會不應該持續在核電的爭議上打轉，而是應該在非核的選項中大步前進。","環境基本法第二十三條有規定，政府應訂定計畫逐步達成非核家園的目標，雖然目前核能占比已經降到全國發電量的6.3%，在非核家園政策不變之下，核三廠1號機今年7月會停止運轉，2號機明年5月也會停止運轉，這樣造成的電力供應缺口，會不會讓全臺有停電的疑慮呢？"],["林次長全能：我剛才說過，依據電力的需求和電力供給情形，我們都做好準備了。核三的1號機在7月27日即將停止運轉，事實上我們都做好相關的供應電力準備。"],["陳委員秀寳：所以你們已經評估過了，當1號機停止運轉之後會用什麼電力補足這個缺口？"],["林次長全能：我說過，我們是多元的電力補足，包括燃氣電廠、大潭7號、森霸、興達等等。另外就是再生能源的太陽光電和離岸風電，今年、明年都會有大幅成長。"],["陳委員秀寳：說到燃氣，雖然國內也一直努力在推動綠電，包括屋頂種電、離岸風電等政策，但是再生能源的占比增加不到6%，經濟部和台電公司一定要重視這個問題的嚴重性。在這邊也要請教，四接、五接的環評到現在還沒有通過，目前的狀況是這樣，是遇到什麼樣的難題？"],["林次長全能：四接的部分主要是因為環評嘛！這部分我們也在積極努力溝通，未來我們會做更好的溝通，讓環評的後續進展能夠順利。"],["陳委員秀寳：所以你的意思是說，會儘量溝通、努力，讓後面的環評能夠順利。你們有沒有設定完成的期程？"],["林次長全能：這個部分可不可以請台電說明一下？"],["陳委員秀寳：好的。"],["許副總經理永輝：這部分大概還是需要社會溝通，這一塊還要再努力。就目前來看，環評一定要……"],["陳委員秀寳：你們遇到的瓶頸是什麼？"],["許副總經理永輝：還是在地方。因為地方有不同的聲音，對於……"],["陳委員秀寳：所以你們還要盡很大的努力去做溝通和協調？"],["許副總經理永輝：是的。"],["陳委員秀寳：這個部分也希望儘快有好消息。因為我們整個電力怎麼樣才可以供應無虞，其實對企業和民生都非常重要，因為停電、跳電可能造成企業的損失，一般的民生、店家也可能有這樣的擔憂，本席覺得這對社會來說是一個不良現象。","接下來本席要請教，核安會的報告說核三廠的燃料池貯存空間有限，僅可供運轉數年，因此不論除役或延役，乾式貯存設施必須興建才能推動相關作業。本席想問一下許副總經理，核三廠的乾式貯存設施，你們現在遇到的困難是什麼？"],["許副總經理永輝：目前核三廠乾貯的部分，我們就是直接做室內乾貯，現在大概還有3到5年的空間。"],["陳委員秀寳：乾式貯存設施必須興建啟用才能推動相關作業。所謂的必須興建啟用，這一塊你們所做的評估及現在遇到的困難是什麼？"],["許副總經理永輝：現在室內乾貯的興建沒有困難，我們預定今年進行招標。"],["陳委員秀寳：今年就可以招標？"],["許副總經理永輝：對，今年年底。"],["陳委員秀寳：好。本席先請教陳主委，核安會報告，有關委員擬具的核子反應器設施延役條例草案，以及核子反應器設施管制法第六條條文修正草案，核安會尊重各委員的提案，如果法案真的通過了，核二重啟、核三延役會有什麼困難嗎？"],["陳主任委員東陽：核安會主要還是一個獨立的安全管制機關，我們會從安全的部分著手，當然核廢料也要同步優先處理。"],["陳委員秀寳：其實如何確保核能安全，就民眾期待這一塊來說，民眾是非常擔心的，因為核二的重啟和核三的延役，對民眾來說主要是安全的考量。缺電不缺電？有沒有電可以用？當然非常重要，因為這攸關民生，但是關於生命健康的安全是民眾更重視的。所以本席想知道，因為你們尊重嘛！萬一委員提的這個案子過了，核二重啟、核三延役真的會執行嗎？核二真的可以重啟、核三會延役嗎？民眾想知道的是這個部分，是不是請主委說明一下？"],["陳主任委員東陽：關於這個部分，能源政策還是要由經濟部回答，因為他們要從需求面、政策面著手。"],["陳委員秀寳：本席不是問你政策，本席現在是問，以您在核安方面的專業角度來看，核二可以重啟嗎？或是核三可以直接延役嗎？在執行面上，可以直接讓核二重啟或核三延役？還是必須經過什麼樣的程序？或者必須經過怎樣的時程？"],["陳主任委員東陽：它必須經過很嚴格的安全審查，這個部分大概需要一段很長的時間，發動者應該從經營者，也就是台電著手，當然在這之前還必須修法，更前面就是能源政策的確定，核安會其實是在後段，主要是著重核能安全的部分。核二廠有更大的麻煩，因為它的乾貯設施還沒有興建，現在用過的燃料池也滿貯，剛才我在報告裡面都有說明，所以它的困難度更高。"],["陳委員秀寳：主委，本席要再向您強調，本席今天不是問政策，也不是問你們的立場是什麼，是為民眾發問，因為民眾擔心核二重啟或是核三延役，到底對民眾的生命健康、安全影響有多大？他們很擔心，萬一法案真的過了，核二隨隨便便就重啟，核三說延役就延役，安全評估到底有沒有經過審慎的程序？這樣會不會造成大家生命財產健康的擔憂？這個部分是民眾想要知道的，所以本席一直在這個問題打轉，請你們說清楚、說明白，不是核二想要重啟就重啟，核三也不是說延役就延役，它必須經過一個相當嚴謹的評估過程，還有相當的程序，是不是這樣子？"],["陳主任委員東陽：完全正確。"],["陳委員秀寳：本席希望核安會要用你們的專業守護民眾的健康，讓大家沒有疑慮。經濟部這邊，本席也希望你們除了穩定供電的職責，不論在設備上、人力上、管理上，都要更嚴謹、精進，這是你們的責任。好，本席的時間到了，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝。接下來請洪申翰委員，質詢時間4分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":396,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-14","speakers":["柯志恩","洪孟楷","葛如鈞","葉元之","洪申翰","陳秀寳","萬美玲","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","林宜瑾","張雅琳","范雲","羅廷瑋","張嘉郡","陳培瑜","張智倫","林倩綺","羅智強","吳春城","楊瓊瓔","翁曉玲"],"page_start":343,"meetingDate":["2024-05-29"],"gazette_id":"1135201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135201_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽及經濟部次長列席就「展望全球核能發電趨勢，我國核電廠\n延役推動現況暨發展新型核能成為永續能源之規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1135201_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"153195","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153195","tool":"pyannote","id":"153195-pyannote"},"job_id":"t1tvovbbQ97r0pSL","queued_at":"2024-05-30 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\"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"en\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,089 --> 00:00:00,589\n秀 寳 委 員\n\n2\n00:00:19,636 --> 00:00:42,241\n委 員 好 早 安 因 為 今 天 時 間 不 多 所 以 請 大 家 一 起 上 來 節 省 時 間 首 先 我 要 先 請 教 我 們 次 長 台 灣 我 們 受 制 於 是 海 島 型 的 國 家 結 構 所 以 我 們 電 力 必 須 自 給 自 足 那 人 員 專 家 有 提 醒 就 是 台 灣 會 有 缺 電 的 危 機 必 須 儘 早 做 準 備 那 在 這 邊 我 想 請 教 次 長 台 灣 缺 不 缺 電\n\n3\n00:00:43,171 --> 00:00:58,329\n我 剛 剛 提 到 過 我 們 每 年 都 在 做 未 來 5 到 1 0 年 的 供 電 的 需 求 的 評 估 依 據 這 個 評 估 我 們 把 所 要 供 電 的 這 些 相 關 的 建 設 做 好 所 以 依 據 這 樣 的 台 電 同 仁 跟 我 們 經 濟 部 同 仁 的 努 力 我 們 認 為 沒 有 缺 電 的 問 題\n\n4\n00:00:59,700 --> 00:01:11,647\n雖 然 你 們 在 做 評 估 有 在 做 努 力 也 有 做 相 關 的 一 些 持 續 的 一 些 建 設 但 是 就 發 生 在 3 個 月 桃 園 4 月 的 時 候 有 跳 電 3 5 次 引 發 民 怨 那 上 個 禮 拜 2 3 日 呢 早 上 呢 臺 北 士 林 有 1 . 2 萬 戶 跳 電 連 故 宮 呢 北 院 都 沒 電 可 用 讓 外 國 來 的 遊 客 都 很 傻 眼 那 下 午 換 成 聖 萬 華 跳 電 2 6 日 的 時 候 新 竹 香 山 有 1 3 0 0 戶 大 停 電\n\n5\n00:01:25,095 --> 00:01:50,305\n所 以 說 台 電 你 們 這 邊 雖 然 當 時 有 說 明 說 是 天 然 災 害 及 人 為 因 素 但 是 一 定 會 被 誤 解 成 缺 電 所 以 說 是 相 關 的 設 施 相 當 的 管 理 還 是 人 力 不 足 你 們 到 底 該 努 力 的 地 方 在 哪 裡 你 們 自 己 有 釐 清 嗎 我 想 這 個 部 分 確 實 跳 電 的 狀 況 出 現 很 多 那 我 們 都 把 問 題 掌 握 出 來 就 拿 桃 園 地 區 的 部 分 來 看 的 話 事 實 上 桃 園 人 口 成 長\n\n6\n00:01:51,590 --> 00:01:52,470\n所 以 我 們 就 要 確 保 供 電 無 虞 不 跳 電\n\n7\n00:02:17,236 --> 00:02:40,696\n這 是 個 民 眾 的 承 諾 這 是 我 們 要 做 到 沒 錯 台 灣 在 世 界 產 業 的 供 應 鏈 上 是 非 常 重 要 的 角 色 所 以 企 業 跟 民 眾 都 需 要 穩 定 的 供 電 那 所 以 說 我 這 邊 要 要 求 你 們 要 盡 快 盡 速 努 力 的 去 發 展 多 元 的 綠 能 智 慧 電 網 才 能 夠 強 化 我 們 電 力 系 統 的 韌 性 那 我 們 蔡 英 文 總 統 在 今 年 卸 任 前 的 最 後 一 次 元 旦 記 者 會 有 強 調 非 核 家 園 不 能 走 回 頭 路\n\n8\n00:02:43,618 --> 00:02:46,380\n台 灣 的 社 會 不 應 該 持 續 在 核 電 的 爭 議 上 來 打 轉 而 是 應 該 在 非 核 的 選 項 中 大 步 前 進 那 環 境 基 本 法 的 第 2 3 條 有 規 定 政 府 應 訂 定 計 劃 逐 步 達 成 非 核 家 園 的 目 標 那 雖 然 目 前 核 能 佔 比 已 經 降 到 全 國 的 發 電 量 是 6 . 3 %\n\n9\n00:03:03,732 --> 00:03:19,421\n非 核 家 園 政 策 不 變 之 下 那 核 三 廠 一 號 機 在 今 年 七 月 會 停 止 運 轉 二 號 機 在 明 年 五 月 也 會 停 止 運 轉 那 這 樣 子 造 成 的 這 個 電 力 的 供 應 缺 口 會 不 會 讓 全 台 有 停 電 的 這 個 疑 慮 呢\n\n10\n00:03:20,382 --> 00:03:24,864\n我 剛 剛 講 過 我 們 依 據 這 個 電 力 的 需 求 跟 電 力 的 供 給 的 情 形 我 們 都 做 好 準 備 了 那 河 山 的 這 個 即 將 的 一 個 7 月 2 7 號 河 山 廠 的 一 號 機 的 這 個 停 止 運 轉 事 實 上 我 們 都 準 備 好 相 關 的 供 應 的 電 力 準 備 所 以 你 們 都 已 經 評 估 過 了 當 一 號 機 它 停 止 運 轉 之 後 又 有 什 麼 其 他 的 電 來 補 足 這 個 缺 口\n\n11\n00:03:44,293 --> 00:04:07,468\n我 講 過 我 們 是 多 元 的 一 個 這 個 電 力 的 補 儲 包 括 我 們 的 燃 氣 的 電 廠 包 括 我 們 大 潭 的 一 個 7 號 包 括 我 們 的 森 巴 等 等 新 港 另 外 一 個 部 分 就 是 再 生 能 源 的 太 陽 光 電 跟 離 岸 風 電 在 今 年 明 年 都 會 有 大 幅 成 長 說 到 這 個 燃 氣 雖 然 我 們 國 內 也 一 直 努 力 的 在 推 動 綠 電 包 括 像 屋 頂 重 電 離 岸 風 電 等 政 策 但 是 其 實 再 生 能 源 佔 比 也 增 加 不 到 6 %\n\n12\n00:04:08,689 --> 00:04:19,371\n那 經 濟 部 跟 台 電 公 司 你 們 一 定 要 去 重 視 這 個 問 題 的 嚴 重 性 喔 在 這 邊 也 要 請 教 四 階 五 階 的 環 評 到 現 在 沒 有 通 過 我 目 前 的 狀 況 是 怎 樣 遇 到 什 麼 樣 的 難 題 我 想 四 階 的 部 分 主 要 是 環 評 嘛 那 環 評 我 們 繼 續 努 力 在 做 溝 通 我 們 會 來 進 行 做 好 更 好 的 溝 通 讓 環 評 的 一 個 這 個 後 續 的 進 展 能 夠 順 利\n\n13\n00:04:31,894 --> 00:04:44,477\n所 以 你 只 是 說 會 盡 量 的 來 溝 通 努 力 讓 後 面 的 環 評 能 夠 順 利 但 是 你 自 己 有 沒 有 預 定 一 個 怎 樣 的 啟 程 去 完 成 它 這 個 部 分 我 可 不 可 以 請 我 們 台 電 這 部 分 大 概 就 是 還 是 要 社 會 溝 通 的 這 一 塊 還 要 再 努 力 就 是 說 目 前 來 看 大 概 環 評 我 們 一 定 還 . . . 你 們 遇 到 的 瓶 頸 是 什 麼\n\n14\n00:04:59,154 --> 00:05:18,969\n所 以 你 們 還 要 很 大 的 努 力 去 做 溝 通 跟 協 調 這 個 部 分 也 希 望 盡 快 有 好 消 息 因 為 對 於 我 們 整 個 電 力 怎 樣 可 以 供 應 無 虞 其 實 在 我 們 的 企 業 跟 民 生 都 非 常 的 重 要 因 為 你 們 的 停 電 跳 電 可 能 造 成 企 業 的 損 失 那 一 般 的 民 生 一 般 的 店 家 也 可 能 就 有 這 樣 的 擔 憂 的 話 其 實 我 覺 得 這 個 對 社 會 都 是 一 個 很 不 良 的 現 象\n\n15\n00:05:24,012 --> 00:05:50,060\n接 下 來 我 要 請 教 核 安 委 這 邊 報 告 說 核 三 廠 用 過 燃 料 池 的 儲 存 空 間 有 限 僅 可 公 約 運 轉 數 年 因 此 不 論 廚 藝 或 研 藝 干 式 儲 存 設 施 必 須 興 建 才 能 推 動 相 關 的 作 業 我 再 想 問 一 下 我 們 許 副 總 經 理 核 三 廠 的 干 式 儲 存 設 施 你 們 現 在 遇 到 的 困 難 是 什 麼\n\n16\n00:05:51,018 --> 00:06:04,369\n核 電 廠 的 目 前 來 講 大 概 乾 除 的 部 分 我 們 大 概 就 是 直 接 走 室 內 乾 除 的 部 分 那 現 在 他 大 概 還 可 以 3 到 5 年 的 部 分 還 有 空 間\n\n17\n00:06:05,620 --> 00:06:32,633\n那 如 果 我 說 那 個 必 須 干 式 儲 存 設 施 必 須 興 建 啟 用 才 能 推 動 相 關 作 業 那 所 謂 的 必 須 興 建 啟 用 的 在 這 一 塊 你 們 所 做 的 評 估 你 們 所 做 的 現 在 遇 到 的 困 難 是 什 麼 現 在 室 內 乾 除 的 部 分 的 興 建 沒 有 困 難 大 概 我 們 預 定 大 概 今 年 準 備 來 所 謂 的 招 標 今 年 就 可 以 招 標 對 今 年 年 底\n\n18\n00:06:34,178 --> 00:06:57,646\n好 那 這 邊 我 先 請 教 我 們 陳 主 委 核 安 會 這 邊 報 告 說 有 關 委 員 女 巨 的 核 子 反 應 器 設 施 研 議 條 例 草 案 以 及 核 子 反 應 器 設 施 管 制 法 第 6 條 條 文 修 正 草 案 呢 核 安 會 會 尊 重 各 委 員 的 提 案 那 如 果 真 的 法 案 是 有 通 過 了 關 於 核 二 重 啟 核 三 研 議 我 們 會 有 什 麼 困 難 嗎\n\n19\n00:07:00,639 --> 00:07:13,707\n核 安 會 主 要 還 是 一 個 獨 立 的 安 全 管 制 機 關 那 麼 我 們 會 從 這 個 安 全 的 部 分 來 著 手 那 麼 這 個 部 分 那 當 然 核 廢 料 也 要 同 步 優 先 的 來 處 理\n\n20\n00:07:15,590 --> 00:07:36,080\n其 實 如 何 確 保 核 能 安 全 在 民 眾 的 期 待 這 一 塊 民 眾 是 非 常 非 常 的 擔 心 因 為 核 二 的 重 啟 跟 核 三 的 延 役 主 要 是 因 為 對 民 眾 來 講 是 安 全 的 考 量 缺 電 不 缺 電 有 沒 有 電 可 以 用 當 然 是 非 常 的 重 要 是 攸 關 民 生 但 是 關 於 生 命 健 康 的 安 全 是 民 眾 更 重 視 的\n\n21\n00:07:37,501 --> 00:07:59,664\n所 以 我 這 邊 要 想 知 道 說 如 果 萬 一 委 員 提 的 因 為 你 們 尊 重 嘛 那 萬 一 委 員 提 的 這 個 案 子 是 有 過 的 那 核 二 重 啓 核 三 延 役 真 的 會 執 行 嗎 真 的 是 核 二 可 以 重 啓 核 三 就 會 延 役 嗎 民 眾 想 知 道 的 是 這 樣 子 的 狀 況 是 不 是 請 我 們 主 委 這 邊 可 以 說 明 一 下\n\n22\n00:08:01,207 --> 00:08:21,208\n這 個 部 分 能 源 政 策 還 是 要 由 經 濟 部 來 回 答 因 為 他 這 邊 要 從 需 求 面 政 策 面 來 著 手 我 沒 有 問 你 政 策 我 現 在 是 問 說 以 您 在 核 安 的 專 業 上 您 的 以 您 的 專 業 的 角 度 來 看 核 二 是 可 以 重 啟 的 嗎 或 是 核 三 就 直 接 是 這 樣 可 以 研 議 的 嗎 他 在 這 個 他 的 執 行 面 上\n\n23\n00:08:23,630 --> 00:08:31,339\n是 可 以 這 樣 子 直 接 就 核 二 重 啓 或 核 三 延 役 嗎 ? 還 是 它 必 須 經 過 怎 樣 的 程 序 ? 或 者 說 它 必 須 經 過 怎 樣 的 一 個 時 程 ?\n\n24\n00:08:33,646 --> 00:08:54,098\n他 必 須 經 過 很 嚴 格 的 一 個 安 全 審 查 那 麼 這 個 部 分 大 概 需 要 一 段 的 很 長 的 時 間 那 麼 發 動 者 應 該 從 經 營 者 也 就 是 台 電 當 然 前 面 必 須 要 修 法 在 前 面 必 須 能 源 政 策 確 定 那 核 安 會 其 實 是 在 後 段\n\n25\n00:08:55,459 --> 00:09:14,521\n主 要 是 著 重 在 這 個 能 源 安 全 核 能 安 全 的 部 分 那 麼 核 二 廠 還 有 更 大 的 麻 煩 因 為 他 的 乾 除 設 施 還 沒 有 興 建 那 麼 他 現 在 也 這 個 用 過 燃 料 池 也 滿 足 剛 才 我 在 報 告 裡 面 都 有 說 明 所 以 他 的 困 難 度 更 高\n\n26\n00:09:15,652 --> 00:09:18,114\n主 委 在 這 邊 我 再 跟 你 強 調 我 今 天 沒 有 跟 你 問 政 策 我 也 沒 有 跟 你 問 說 我 們 這 個 本 身 你 們 的 立 場 在 哪 裡 是 為 民 眾 來 問 因 為 民 眾 擔 心 核 二 重 啓 或 是 核 三 延 役 到 底 對 民 眾 的 生 命 健 康 安 全 影 響 有 多 大\n\n27\n00:09:33,985 --> 00:09:38,007\n他 們 很 擔 心 萬 一 法 案 真 的 過 了 隨 隨 便 便 核 二 就 重 啟 了 核 三 就 說 延 役 就 延 役 了 那 到 底 在 安 全 上 的 評 估 有 沒 有 經 過 一 個 審 慎 的 一 個 程 序 是 不 是 這 樣 子 會 不 會 造 成 大 家 生 命 財 產 健 康 的 這 個 擔 憂 這 個 部 分 是 民 眾 想 要 知 道 的 所 以 我 在 這 邊 一 直 在 這 個 問 題 上 請 你 要 說 清 楚 說 明 白 說 說 不 是 核 二 要 重 啟 就 重 啟\n\n28\n00:09:58,598 --> 00:09:58,798\n好 那 我 時 間 到 了 謝 謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n89\t589\t秀寳委員\n19636\t42241\t委員好早安因為今天時間不多所以請大家一起上來節省時間首先我要先請教我們次長台灣我們受制於是海島型的國家結構所以我們電力必須自給自足那人員專家有提醒就是台灣會有缺電的危機必須儘早做準備那在這邊我想請教次長台灣缺不缺電\n43171\t58329\t我剛剛提到過我們每年都在做未來5到10年的供電的需求的評估依據這個評估我們把所要供電的這些相關的建設做好所以依據這樣的台電同仁跟我們經濟部同仁的努力我們認為沒有缺電的問題\n59700\t71647\t雖然你們在做評估有在做努力也有做相關的一些持續的一些建設但是就發生在3個月桃園4月的時候有跳電35次引發民怨那上個禮拜23日呢早上呢臺北士林有1.2萬戶跳電連故宮呢北院都沒電可用讓外國來的遊客都很傻眼那下午換成聖萬華跳電26日的時候新竹香山有1300戶大停電\n85095\t110305\t所以說台電你們這邊雖然當時有說明說是天然災害及人為因素但是一定會被誤解成缺電所以說是相關的設施相當的管理還是人力不足你們到底該努力的地方在哪裡你們自己有釐清嗎我想這個部分確實跳電的狀況出現很多那我們都把問題掌握出來就拿桃園地區的部分來看的話事實上桃園人口成長\n111590\t112470\t所以我們就要確保供電無虞不跳電\n137236\t160696\t這是個民眾的承諾這是我們要做到沒錯台灣在世界產業的供應鏈上是非常重要的角色所以企業跟民眾都需要穩定的供電那所以說我這邊要要求你們要盡快盡速努力的去發展多元的綠能智慧電網才能夠強化我們電力系統的韌性那我們蔡英文總統在今年卸任前的最後一次元旦記者會有強調非核家園不能走回頭路\n163618\t166380\t台灣的社會不應該持續在核電的爭議上來打轉而是應該在非核的選項中大步前進那環境基本法的第23條有規定政府應訂定計劃逐步達成非核家園的目標那雖然目前核能佔比已經降到全國的發電量是6.3%\n183732\t199421\t非核家園政策不變之下那核三廠一號機在今年七月會停止運轉二號機在明年五月也會停止運轉那這樣子造成的這個電力的供應缺口會不會讓全台有停電的這個疑慮呢\n200382\t204864\t我剛剛講過我們依據這個電力的需求跟電力的供給的情形我們都做好準備了那河山的這個即將的一個7月27號河山廠的一號機的這個停止運轉事實上我們都準備好相關的供應的電力準備所以你們都已經評估過了當一號機它停止運轉之後又有什麼其他的電來補足這個缺口\n224293\t247468\t我講過我們是多元的一個這個電力的補儲包括我們的燃氣的電廠包括我們大潭的一個7號包括我們的森巴等等新港另外一個部分就是再生能源的太陽光電跟離岸風電在今年明年都會有大幅成長說到這個燃氣雖然我們國內也一直努力的在推動綠電包括像屋頂重電離岸風電等政策但是其實再生能源佔比也增加不到6%\n248689\t259371\t那經濟部跟台電公司你們一定要去重視這個問題的嚴重性喔在這邊也要請教四階五階的環評到現在沒有通過我目前的狀況是怎樣遇到什麼樣的難題我想四階的部分主要是環評嘛那環評我們繼續努力在做溝通我們會來進行做好更好的溝通讓環評的一個這個後續的進展能夠順利\n271894\t284477\t所以你只是說會盡量的來溝通努力讓後面的環評能夠順利但是你自己有沒有預定一個怎樣的啟程去完成它這個部分我可不可以請我們台電這部分大概就是還是要社會溝通的這一塊還要再努力就是說目前來看大概環評我們一定還...你們遇到的瓶頸是什麼\n299154\t318969\t所以你們還要很大的努力去做溝通跟協調這個部分也希望盡快有好消息因為對於我們整個電力怎樣可以供應無虞其實在我們的企業跟民生都非常的重要因為你們的停電跳電可能造成企業的損失那一般的民生一般的店家也可能就有這樣的擔憂的話其實我覺得這個對社會都是一個很不良的現象\n324012\t350060\t接下來我要請教 核安委這邊報告說核三廠用過燃料池的儲存空間有限僅可公約運轉數年因此不論廚藝或研藝干式儲存設施必須興建才能推動相關的作業我再想問一下我們許副總經理核三廠的干式儲存設施你們現在遇到的困難是什麼\n351018\t364369\t核電廠的目前來講大概乾除的部分我們大概就是直接走室內乾除的部分那現在他大概還可以3到5年的部分還有空間\n365620\t392633\t那如果我說那個必須干式儲存設施必須興建啟用才能推動相關作業那所謂的必須興建啟用的在這一塊你們所做的評估你們所做的現在遇到的困難是什麼現在室內乾除的部分的興建沒有困難大概我們預定大概今年準備來所謂的招標今年就可以招標對今年年底\n394178\t417646\t好那這邊我先請教我們陳主委核安會這邊報告說有關委員女巨的核子反應器設施研議條例草案以及核子反應器設施管制法第6條條文修正草案呢核安會會尊重各委員的提案那如果真的法案是有通過了關於核二重啟核三研議我們會有什麼困難嗎\n420639\t433707\t核安會主要還是一個獨立的安全管制機關那麼我們會從這個安全的部分來著手那麼這個部分那當然核廢料也要同步優先的來處理\n435590\t456080\t其實如何確保核能安全在民眾的期待這一塊民眾是非常非常的擔心因為核二的重啟跟核三的延役主要是因為對民眾來講是安全的考量缺電不缺電有沒有電可以用當然是非常的重要是攸關民生但是關於生命健康的安全是民眾更重視的\n457501\t479664\t所以我這邊要想知道說如果萬一委員提的因為你們尊重嘛那萬一委員提的這個案子是有過的那核二重啓核三延役真的會執行嗎真的是核二可以重啓核三就會延役嗎民眾想知道的是這樣子的狀況是不是請我們主委這邊可以說明一下\n481207\t501208\t這個部分能源政策還是要由經濟部來回答因為他這邊要從需求面政策面來著手我沒有問你政策我現在是問說以您在核安的專業上您的以您的專業的角度來看核二是可以重啟的嗎或是核三就直接是這樣可以研議的嗎他在這個他的執行面上\n503630\t511339\t是可以這樣子直接就核二重啓或核三延役嗎?還是它必須經過怎樣的程序?或者說它必須經過怎樣的一個時程?\n513646\t534098\t他必須經過很嚴格的一個安全審查那麼這個部分大概需要一段的很長的時間那麼發動者應該從經營者也就是台電當然前面必須要修法在前面必須能源政策確定那核安會其實是在後段\n535459\t554521\t主要是著重在這個能源安全核能安全的部分那麼核二廠還有更大的麻煩因為他的乾除設施還沒有興建那麼他現在也這個用過燃料池也滿足剛才我在報告裡面都有說明所以他的困難度更高\n555652\t558114\t主委在這邊我再跟你強調我今天沒有跟你問政策我也沒有跟你問說我們這個本身你們的立場在哪裡是為民眾來問因為民眾擔心核二重啓或是核三延役到底對民眾的生命健康安全影響有多大\n573985\t578007\t他們很擔心萬一法案真的過了隨隨便便核二就重啟了核三就說延役就延役了那到底在安全上的評估有沒有經過一個審慎的一個程序是不是這樣子會不會造成大家生命財產健康的這個擔憂這個部分是民眾想要知道的所以我在這邊一直在這個問題上請你要說清楚說明白說說不是核二要重啟就重啟\n598598\t598798\t好 那我時間到了 謝謝\n","txt":"秀寳委員\n委員好早安因為今天時間不多所以請大家一起上來節省時間首先我要先請教我們次長台灣我們受制於是海島型的國家結構所以我們電力必須自給自足那人員專家有提醒就是台灣會有缺電的危機必須儘早做準備那在這邊我想請教次長台灣缺不缺電\n我剛剛提到過我們每年都在做未來5到10年的供電的需求的評估依據這個評估我們把所要供電的這些相關的建設做好所以依據這樣的台電同仁跟我們經濟部同仁的努力我們認為沒有缺電的問題\n雖然你們在做評估有在做努力也有做相關的一些持續的一些建設但是就發生在3個月桃園4月的時候有跳電35次引發民怨那上個禮拜23日呢早上呢臺北士林有1.2萬戶跳電連故宮呢北院都沒電可用讓外國來的遊客都很傻眼那下午換成聖萬華跳電26日的時候新竹香山有1300戶大停電\n所以說台電你們這邊雖然當時有說明說是天然災害及人為因素但是一定會被誤解成缺電所以說是相關的設施相當的管理還是人力不足你們到底該努力的地方在哪裡你們自己有釐清嗎我想這個部分確實跳電的狀況出現很多那我們都把問題掌握出來就拿桃園地區的部分來看的話事實上桃園人口成長\n所以我們就要確保供電無虞不跳電\n這是個民眾的承諾這是我們要做到沒錯台灣在世界產業的供應鏈上是非常重要的角色所以企業跟民眾都需要穩定的供電那所以說我這邊要要求你們要盡快盡速努力的去發展多元的綠能智慧電網才能夠強化我們電力系統的韌性那我們蔡英文總統在今年卸任前的最後一次元旦記者會有強調非核家園不能走回頭路\n台灣的社會不應該持續在核電的爭議上來打轉而是應該在非核的選項中大步前進那環境基本法的第23條有規定政府應訂定計劃逐步達成非核家園的目標那雖然目前核能佔比已經降到全國的發電量是6.3%\n非核家園政策不變之下那核三廠一號機在今年七月會停止運轉二號機在明年五月也會停止運轉那這樣子造成的這個電力的供應缺口會不會讓全台有停電的這個疑慮呢\n我剛剛講過我們依據這個電力的需求跟電力的供給的情形我們都做好準備了那河山的這個即將的一個7月27號河山廠的一號機的這個停止運轉事實上我們都準備好相關的供應的電力準備所以你們都已經評估過了當一號機它停止運轉之後又有什麼其他的電來補足這個缺口\n我講過我們是多元的一個這個電力的補儲包括我們的燃氣的電廠包括我們大潭的一個7號包括我們的森巴等等新港另外一個部分就是再生能源的太陽光電跟離岸風電在今年明年都會有大幅成長說到這個燃氣雖然我們國內也一直努力的在推動綠電包括像屋頂重電離岸風電等政策但是其實再生能源佔比也增加不到6%\n那經濟部跟台電公司你們一定要去重視這個問題的嚴重性喔在這邊也要請教四階五階的環評到現在沒有通過我目前的狀況是怎樣遇到什麼樣的難題我想四階的部分主要是環評嘛那環評我們繼續努力在做溝通我們會來進行做好更好的溝通讓環評的一個這個後續的進展能夠順利\n所以你只是說會盡量的來溝通努力讓後面的環評能夠順利但是你自己有沒有預定一個怎樣的啟程去完成它這個部分我可不可以請我們台電這部分大概就是還是要社會溝通的這一塊還要再努力就是說目前來看大概環評我們一定還...你們遇到的瓶頸是什麼\n所以你們還要很大的努力去做溝通跟協調這個部分也希望盡快有好消息因為對於我們整個電力怎樣可以供應無虞其實在我們的企業跟民生都非常的重要因為你們的停電跳電可能造成企業的損失那一般的民生一般的店家也可能就有這樣的擔憂的話其實我覺得這個對社會都是一個很不良的現象\n接下來我要請教 核安委這邊報告說核三廠用過燃料池的儲存空間有限僅可公約運轉數年因此不論廚藝或研藝干式儲存設施必須興建才能推動相關的作業我再想問一下我們許副總經理核三廠的干式儲存設施你們現在遇到的困難是什麼\n核電廠的目前來講大概乾除的部分我們大概就是直接走室內乾除的部分那現在他大概還可以3到5年的部分還有空間\n那如果我說那個必須干式儲存設施必須興建啟用才能推動相關作業那所謂的必須興建啟用的在這一塊你們所做的評估你們所做的現在遇到的困難是什麼現在室內乾除的部分的興建沒有困難大概我們預定大概今年準備來所謂的招標今年就可以招標對今年年底\n好那這邊我先請教我們陳主委核安會這邊報告說有關委員女巨的核子反應器設施研議條例草案以及核子反應器設施管制法第6條條文修正草案呢核安會會尊重各委員的提案那如果真的法案是有通過了關於核二重啟核三研議我們會有什麼困難嗎\n核安會主要還是一個獨立的安全管制機關那麼我們會從這個安全的部分來著手那麼這個部分那當然核廢料也要同步優先的來處理\n其實如何確保核能安全在民眾的期待這一塊民眾是非常非常的擔心因為核二的重啟跟核三的延役主要是因為對民眾來講是安全的考量缺電不缺電有沒有電可以用當然是非常的重要是攸關民生但是關於生命健康的安全是民眾更重視的\n所以我這邊要想知道說如果萬一委員提的因為你們尊重嘛那萬一委員提的這個案子是有過的那核二重啓核三延役真的會執行嗎真的是核二可以重啓核三就會延役嗎民眾想知道的是這樣子的狀況是不是請我們主委這邊可以說明一下\n這個部分能源政策還是要由經濟部來回答因為他這邊要從需求面政策面來著手我沒有問你政策我現在是問說以您在核安的專業上您的以您的專業的角度來看核二是可以重啟的嗎或是核三就直接是這樣可以研議的嗎他在這個他的執行面上\n是可以這樣子直接就核二重啓或核三延役嗎?還是它必須經過怎樣的程序?或者說它必須經過怎樣的一個時程?\n他必須經過很嚴格的一個安全審查那麼這個部分大概需要一段的很長的時間那麼發動者應該從經營者也就是台電當然前面必須要修法在前面必須能源政策確定那核安會其實是在後段\n主要是著重在這個能源安全核能安全的部分那麼核二廠還有更大的麻煩因為他的乾除設施還沒有興建那麼他現在也這個用過燃料池也滿足剛才我在報告裡面都有說明所以他的困難度更高\n主委在這邊我再跟你強調我今天沒有跟你問政策我也沒有跟你問說我們這個本身你們的立場在哪裡是為民眾來問因為民眾擔心核二重啓或是核三延役到底對民眾的生命健康安全影響有多大\n他們很擔心萬一法案真的過了隨隨便便核二就重啟了核三就說延役就延役了那到底在安全上的評估有沒有經過一個審慎的一個程序是不是這樣子會不會造成大家生命財產健康的這個擔憂這個部分是民眾想要知道的所以我在這邊一直在這個問題上請你要說清楚說明白說說不是核二要重啟就重啟\n好 那我時間到了 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.089 --> 00:00.589\n秀 寳 委 員\n\n00:19.636 --> 00:42.241\n委 員 好 早 安 因 為 今 天 時 間 不 多 所 以 請 大 家 一 起 上 來 節 省 時 間 首 先 我 要 先 請 教 我 們 次 長 台 灣 我 們 受 制 於 是 海 島 型 的 國 家 結 構 所 以 我 們 電 力 必 須 自 給 自 足 那 人 員 專 家 有 提 醒 就 是 台 灣 會 有 缺 電 的 危 機 必 須 儘 早 做 準 備 那 在 這 邊 我 想 請 教 次 長 台 灣 缺 不 缺 電\n\n00:43.171 --> 00:58.329\n我 剛 剛 提 到 過 我 們 每 年 都 在 做 未 來 5 到 1 0 年 的 供 電 的 需 求 的 評 估 依 據 這 個 評 估 我 們 把 所 要 供 電 的 這 些 相 關 的 建 設 做 好 所 以 依 據 這 樣 的 台 電 同 仁 跟 我 們 經 濟 部 同 仁 的 努 力 我 們 認 為 沒 有 缺 電 的 問 題\n\n00:59.700 --> 01:11.647\n雖 然 你 們 在 做 評 估 有 在 做 努 力 也 有 做 相 關 的 一 些 持 續 的 一 些 建 設 但 是 就 發 生 在 3 個 月 桃 園 4 月 的 時 候 有 跳 電 3 5 次 引 發 民 怨 那 上 個 禮 拜 2 3 日 呢 早 上 呢 臺 北 士 林 有 1 . 2 萬 戶 跳 電 連 故 宮 呢 北 院 都 沒 電 可 用 讓 外 國 來 的 遊 客 都 很 傻 眼 那 下 午 換 成 聖 萬 華 跳 電 2 6 日 的 時 候 新 竹 香 山 有 1 3 0 0 戶 大 停 電\n\n01:25.095 --> 01:50.305\n所 以 說 台 電 你 們 這 邊 雖 然 當 時 有 說 明 說 是 天 然 災 害 及 人 為 因 素 但 是 一 定 會 被 誤 解 成 缺 電 所 以 說 是 相 關 的 設 施 相 當 的 管 理 還 是 人 力 不 足 你 們 到 底 該 努 力 的 地 方 在 哪 裡 你 們 自 己 有 釐 清 嗎 我 想 這 個 部 分 確 實 跳 電 的 狀 況 出 現 很 多 那 我 們 都 把 問 題 掌 握 出 來 就 拿 桃 園 地 區 的 部 分 來 看 的 話 事 實 上 桃 園 人 口 成 長\n\n01:51.590 --> 01:52.470\n所 以 我 們 就 要 確 保 供 電 無 虞 不 跳 電\n\n02:17.236 --> 02:40.696\n這 是 個 民 眾 的 承 諾 這 是 我 們 要 做 到 沒 錯 台 灣 在 世 界 產 業 的 供 應 鏈 上 是 非 常 重 要 的 角 色 所 以 企 業 跟 民 眾 都 需 要 穩 定 的 供 電 那 所 以 說 我 這 邊 要 要 求 你 們 要 盡 快 盡 速 努 力 的 去 發 展 多 元 的 綠 能 智 慧 電 網 才 能 夠 強 化 我 們 電 力 系 統 的 韌 性 那 我 們 蔡 英 文 總 統 在 今 年 卸 任 前 的 最 後 一 次 元 旦 記 者 會 有 強 調 非 核 家 園 不 能 走 回 頭 路\n\n02:43.618 --> 02:46.380\n台 灣 的 社 會 不 應 該 持 續 在 核 電 的 爭 議 上 來 打 轉 而 是 應 該 在 非 核 的 選 項 中 大 步 前 進 那 環 境 基 本 法 的 第 2 3 條 有 規 定 政 府 應 訂 定 計 劃 逐 步 達 成 非 核 家 園 的 目 標 那 雖 然 目 前 核 能 佔 比 已 經 降 到 全 國 的 發 電 量 是 6 . 3 %\n\n03:03.732 --> 03:19.421\n非 核 家 園 政 策 不 變 之 下 那 核 三 廠 一 號 機 在 今 年 七 月 會 停 止 運 轉 二 號 機 在 明 年 五 月 也 會 停 止 運 轉 那 這 樣 子 造 成 的 這 個 電 力 的 供 應 缺 口 會 不 會 讓 全 台 有 停 電 的 這 個 疑 慮 呢\n\n03:20.382 --> 03:24.864\n我 剛 剛 講 過 我 們 依 據 這 個 電 力 的 需 求 跟 電 力 的 供 給 的 情 形 我 們 都 做 好 準 備 了 那 河 山 的 這 個 即 將 的 一 個 7 月 2 7 號 河 山 廠 的 一 號 機 的 這 個 停 止 運 轉 事 實 上 我 們 都 準 備 好 相 關 的 供 應 的 電 力 準 備 所 以 你 們 都 已 經 評 估 過 了 當 一 號 機 它 停 止 運 轉 之 後 又 有 什 麼 其 他 的 電 來 補 足 這 個 缺 口\n\n03:44.293 --> 04:07.468\n我 講 過 我 們 是 多 元 的 一 個 這 個 電 力 的 補 儲 包 括 我 們 的 燃 氣 的 電 廠 包 括 我 們 大 潭 的 一 個 7 號 包 括 我 們 的 森 巴 等 等 新 港 另 外 一 個 部 分 就 是 再 生 能 源 的 太 陽 光 電 跟 離 岸 風 電 在 今 年 明 年 都 會 有 大 幅 成 長 說 到 這 個 燃 氣 雖 然 我 們 國 內 也 一 直 努 力 的 在 推 動 綠 電 包 括 像 屋 頂 重 電 離 岸 風 電 等 政 策 但 是 其 實 再 生 能 源 佔 比 也 增 加 不 到 6 %\n\n04:08.689 --> 04:19.371\n那 經 濟 部 跟 台 電 公 司 你 們 一 定 要 去 重 視 這 個 問 題 的 嚴 重 性 喔 在 這 邊 也 要 請 教 四 階 五 階 的 環 評 到 現 在 沒 有 通 過 我 目 前 的 狀 況 是 怎 樣 遇 到 什 麼 樣 的 難 題 我 想 四 階 的 部 分 主 要 是 環 評 嘛 那 環 評 我 們 繼 續 努 力 在 做 溝 通 我 們 會 來 進 行 做 好 更 好 的 溝 通 讓 環 評 的 一 個 這 個 後 續 的 進 展 能 夠 順 利\n\n04:31.894 --> 04:44.477\n所 以 你 只 是 說 會 盡 量 的 來 溝 通 努 力 讓 後 面 的 環 評 能 夠 順 利 但 是 你 自 己 有 沒 有 預 定 一 個 怎 樣 的 啟 程 去 完 成 它 這 個 部 分 我 可 不 可 以 請 我 們 台 電 這 部 分 大 概 就 是 還 是 要 社 會 溝 通 的 這 一 塊 還 要 再 努 力 就 是 說 目 前 來 看 大 概 環 評 我 們 一 定 還 . . . 你 們 遇 到 的 瓶 頸 是 什 麼\n\n04:59.154 --> 05:18.969\n所 以 你 們 還 要 很 大 的 努 力 去 做 溝 通 跟 協 調 這 個 部 分 也 希 望 盡 快 有 好 消 息 因 為 對 於 我 們 整 個 電 力 怎 樣 可 以 供 應 無 虞 其 實 在 我 們 的 企 業 跟 民 生 都 非 常 的 重 要 因 為 你 們 的 停 電 跳 電 可 能 造 成 企 業 的 損 失 那 一 般 的 民 生 一 般 的 店 家 也 可 能 就 有 這 樣 的 擔 憂 的 話 其 實 我 覺 得 這 個 對 社 會 都 是 一 個 很 不 良 的 現 象\n\n05:24.012 --> 05:50.060\n接 下 來 我 要 請 教 核 安 委 這 邊 報 告 說 核 三 廠 用 過 燃 料 池 的 儲 存 空 間 有 限 僅 可 公 約 運 轉 數 年 因 此 不 論 廚 藝 或 研 藝 干 式 儲 存 設 施 必 須 興 建 才 能 推 動 相 關 的 作 業 我 再 想 問 一 下 我 們 許 副 總 經 理 核 三 廠 的 干 式 儲 存 設 施 你 們 現 在 遇 到 的 困 難 是 什 麼\n\n05:51.018 --> 06:04.369\n核 電 廠 的 目 前 來 講 大 概 乾 除 的 部 分 我 們 大 概 就 是 直 接 走 室 內 乾 除 的 部 分 那 現 在 他 大 概 還 可 以 3 到 5 年 的 部 分 還 有 空 間\n\n06:05.620 --> 06:32.633\n那 如 果 我 說 那 個 必 須 干 式 儲 存 設 施 必 須 興 建 啟 用 才 能 推 動 相 關 作 業 那 所 謂 的 必 須 興 建 啟 用 的 在 這 一 塊 你 們 所 做 的 評 估 你 們 所 做 的 現 在 遇 到 的 困 難 是 什 麼 現 在 室 內 乾 除 的 部 分 的 興 建 沒 有 困 難 大 概 我 們 預 定 大 概 今 年 準 備 來 所 謂 的 招 標 今 年 就 可 以 招 標 對 今 年 年 底\n\n06:34.178 --> 06:57.646\n好 那 這 邊 我 先 請 教 我 們 陳 主 委 核 安 會 這 邊 報 告 說 有 關 委 員 女 巨 的 核 子 反 應 器 設 施 研 議 條 例 草 案 以 及 核 子 反 應 器 設 施 管 制 法 第 6 條 條 文 修 正 草 案 呢 核 安 會 會 尊 重 各 委 員 的 提 案 那 如 果 真 的 法 案 是 有 通 過 了 關 於 核 二 重 啟 核 三 研 議 我 們 會 有 什 麼 困 難 嗎\n\n07:00.639 --> 07:13.707\n核 安 會 主 要 還 是 一 個 獨 立 的 安 全 管 制 機 關 那 麼 我 們 會 從 這 個 安 全 的 部 分 來 著 手 那 麼 這 個 部 分 那 當 然 核 廢 料 也 要 同 步 優 先 的 來 處 理\n\n07:15.590 --> 07:36.080\n其 實 如 何 確 保 核 能 安 全 在 民 眾 的 期 待 這 一 塊 民 眾 是 非 常 非 常 的 擔 心 因 為 核 二 的 重 啟 跟 核 三 的 延 役 主 要 是 因 為 對 民 眾 來 講 是 安 全 的 考 量 缺 電 不 缺 電 有 沒 有 電 可 以 用 當 然 是 非 常 的 重 要 是 攸 關 民 生 但 是 關 於 生 命 健 康 的 安 全 是 民 眾 更 重 視 的\n\n07:37.501 --> 07:59.664\n所 以 我 這 邊 要 想 知 道 說 如 果 萬 一 委 員 提 的 因 為 你 們 尊 重 嘛 那 萬 一 委 員 提 的 這 個 案 子 是 有 過 的 那 核 二 重 啓 核 三 延 役 真 的 會 執 行 嗎 真 的 是 核 二 可 以 重 啓 核 三 就 會 延 役 嗎 民 眾 想 知 道 的 是 這 樣 子 的 狀 況 是 不 是 請 我 們 主 委 這 邊 可 以 說 明 一 下\n\n08:01.207 --> 08:21.208\n這 個 部 分 能 源 政 策 還 是 要 由 經 濟 部 來 回 答 因 為 他 這 邊 要 從 需 求 面 政 策 面 來 著 手 我 沒 有 問 你 政 策 我 現 在 是 問 說 以 您 在 核 安 的 專 業 上 您 的 以 您 的 專 業 的 角 度 來 看 核 二 是 可 以 重 啟 的 嗎 或 是 核 三 就 直 接 是 這 樣 可 以 研 議 的 嗎 他 在 這 個 他 的 執 行 面 上\n\n08:23.630 --> 08:31.339\n是 可 以 這 樣 子 直 接 就 核 二 重 啓 或 核 三 延 役 嗎 ? 還 是 它 必 須 經 過 怎 樣 的 程 序 ? 或 者 說 它 必 須 經 過 怎 樣 的 一 個 時 程 ?\n\n08:33.646 --> 08:54.098\n他 必 須 經 過 很 嚴 格 的 一 個 安 全 審 查 那 麼 這 個 部 分 大 概 需 要 一 段 的 很 長 的 時 間 那 麼 發 動 者 應 該 從 經 營 者 也 就 是 台 電 當 然 前 面 必 須 要 修 法 在 前 面 必 須 能 源 政 策 確 定 那 核 安 會 其 實 是 在 後 段\n\n08:55.459 --> 09:14.521\n主 要 是 著 重 在 這 個 能 源 安 全 核 能 安 全 的 部 分 那 麼 核 二 廠 還 有 更 大 的 麻 煩 因 為 他 的 乾 除 設 施 還 沒 有 興 建 那 麼 他 現 在 也 這 個 用 過 燃 料 池 也 滿 足 剛 才 我 在 報 告 裡 面 都 有 說 明 所 以 他 的 困 難 度 更 高\n\n09:15.652 --> 09:18.114\n主 委 在 這 邊 我 再 跟 你 強 調 我 今 天 沒 有 跟 你 問 政 策 我 也 沒 有 跟 你 問 說 我 們 這 個 本 身 你 們 的 立 場 在 哪 裡 是 為 民 眾 來 問 因 為 民 眾 擔 心 核 二 重 啓 或 是 核 三 延 役 到 底 對 民 眾 的 生 命 健 康 安 全 影 響 有 多 大\n\n09:33.985 --> 09:38.007\n他 們 很 擔 心 萬 一 法 案 真 的 過 了 隨 隨 便 便 核 二 就 重 啟 了 核 三 就 說 延 役 就 延 役 了 那 到 底 在 安 全 上 的 評 估 有 沒 有 經 過 一 個 審 慎 的 一 個 程 序 是 不 是 這 樣 子 會 不 會 造 成 大 家 生 命 財 產 健 康 的 這 個 擔 憂 這 個 部 分 是 民 眾 想 要 知 道 的 所 以 我 在 這 邊 一 直 在 這 個 問 題 上 請 你 要 說 清 楚 說 明 白 說 說 不 是 核 二 要 重 啟 就 重 啟\n\n09:58.598 --> 09:58.798\n好 那 我 時 間 到 了 謝 謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.089,"end":0.589,"text":"秀寳委員"},{"start":19.636,"end":42.241,"text":"委員好早安因為今天時間不多所以請大家一起上來節省時間首先我要先請教我們次長台灣我們受制於是海島型的國家結構所以我們電力必須自給自足那人員專家有提醒就是台灣會有缺電的危機必須儘早做準備那在這邊我想請教次長台灣缺不缺電"},{"start":43.171,"end":58.329,"text":"我剛剛提到過我們每年都在做未來5到10年的供電的需求的評估依據這個評估我們把所要供電的這些相關的建設做好所以依據這樣的台電同仁跟我們經濟部同仁的努力我們認為沒有缺電的問題"},{"start":59.7,"end":71.647,"text":"雖然你們在做評估有在做努力也有做相關的一些持續的一些建設但是就發生在3個月桃園4月的時候有跳電35次引發民怨那上個禮拜23日呢早上呢臺北士林有1.2萬戶跳電連故宮呢北院都沒電可用讓外國來的遊客都很傻眼那下午換成聖萬華跳電26日的時候新竹香山有1300戶大停電"},{"start":85.095,"end":110.305,"text":"所以說台電你們這邊雖然當時有說明說是天然災害及人為因素但是一定會被誤解成缺電所以說是相關的設施相當的管理還是人力不足你們到底該努力的地方在哪裡你們自己有釐清嗎我想這個部分確實跳電的狀況出現很多那我們都把問題掌握出來就拿桃園地區的部分來看的話事實上桃園人口成長"},{"start":111.59,"end":112.47,"text":"所以我們就要確保供電無虞不跳電"},{"start":137.236,"end":160.696,"text":"這是個民眾的承諾這是我們要做到沒錯台灣在世界產業的供應鏈上是非常重要的角色所以企業跟民眾都需要穩定的供電那所以說我這邊要要求你們要盡快盡速努力的去發展多元的綠能智慧電網才能夠強化我們電力系統的韌性那我們蔡英文總統在今年卸任前的最後一次元旦記者會有強調非核家園不能走回頭路"},{"start":163.618,"end":166.38,"text":"台灣的社會不應該持續在核電的爭議上來打轉而是應該在非核的選項中大步前進那環境基本法的第23條有規定政府應訂定計劃逐步達成非核家園的目標那雖然目前核能佔比已經降到全國的發電量是6.3%"},{"start":183.732,"end":199.421,"text":"非核家園政策不變之下那核三廠一號機在今年七月會停止運轉二號機在明年五月也會停止運轉那這樣子造成的這個電力的供應缺口會不會讓全台有停電的這個疑慮呢"},{"start":200.382,"end":204.864,"text":"我剛剛講過我們依據這個電力的需求跟電力的供給的情形我們都做好準備了那河山的這個即將的一個7月27號河山廠的一號機的這個停止運轉事實上我們都準備好相關的供應的電力準備所以你們都已經評估過了當一號機它停止運轉之後又有什麼其他的電來補足這個缺口"},{"start":224.293,"end":247.468,"text":"我講過我們是多元的一個這個電力的補儲包括我們的燃氣的電廠包括我們大潭的一個7號包括我們的森巴等等新港另外一個部分就是再生能源的太陽光電跟離岸風電在今年明年都會有大幅成長說到這個燃氣雖然我們國內也一直努力的在推動綠電包括像屋頂重電離岸風電等政策但是其實再生能源佔比也增加不到6%"},{"start":248.689,"end":259.371,"text":"那經濟部跟台電公司你們一定要去重視這個問題的嚴重性喔在這邊也要請教四階五階的環評到現在沒有通過我目前的狀況是怎樣遇到什麼樣的難題我想四階的部分主要是環評嘛那環評我們繼續努力在做溝通我們會來進行做好更好的溝通讓環評的一個這個後續的進展能夠順利"},{"start":271.894,"end":284.477,"text":"所以你只是說會盡量的來溝通努力讓後面的環評能夠順利但是你自己有沒有預定一個怎樣的啟程去完成它這個部分我可不可以請我們台電這部分大概就是還是要社會溝通的這一塊還要再努力就是說目前來看大概環評我們一定還...你們遇到的瓶頸是什麼"},{"start":299.154,"end":318.969,"text":"所以你們還要很大的努力去做溝通跟協調這個部分也希望盡快有好消息因為對於我們整個電力怎樣可以供應無虞其實在我們的企業跟民生都非常的重要因為你們的停電跳電可能造成企業的損失那一般的民生一般的店家也可能就有這樣的擔憂的話其實我覺得這個對社會都是一個很不良的現象"},{"start":324.012,"end":350.06,"text":"接下來我要請教 核安委這邊報告說核三廠用過燃料池的儲存空間有限僅可公約運轉數年因此不論廚藝或研藝干式儲存設施必須興建才能推動相關的作業我再想問一下我們許副總經理核三廠的干式儲存設施你們現在遇到的困難是什麼"},{"start":351.018,"end":364.369,"text":"核電廠的目前來講大概乾除的部分我們大概就是直接走室內乾除的部分那現在他大概還可以3到5年的部分還有空間"},{"start":365.62,"end":392.633,"text":"那如果我說那個必須干式儲存設施必須興建啟用才能推動相關作業那所謂的必須興建啟用的在這一塊你們所做的評估你們所做的現在遇到的困難是什麼現在室內乾除的部分的興建沒有困難大概我們預定大概今年準備來所謂的招標今年就可以招標對今年年底"},{"start":394.178,"end":417.646,"text":"好那這邊我先請教我們陳主委核安會這邊報告說有關委員女巨的核子反應器設施研議條例草案以及核子反應器設施管制法第6條條文修正草案呢核安會會尊重各委員的提案那如果真的法案是有通過了關於核二重啟核三研議我們會有什麼困難嗎"},{"start":420.639,"end":433.707,"text":"核安會主要還是一個獨立的安全管制機關那麼我們會從這個安全的部分來著手那麼這個部分那當然核廢料也要同步優先的來處理"},{"start":435.59,"end":456.08,"text":"其實如何確保核能安全在民眾的期待這一塊民眾是非常非常的擔心因為核二的重啟跟核三的延役主要是因為對民眾來講是安全的考量缺電不缺電有沒有電可以用當然是非常的重要是攸關民生但是關於生命健康的安全是民眾更重視的"},{"start":457.501,"end":479.664,"text":"所以我這邊要想知道說如果萬一委員提的因為你們尊重嘛那萬一委員提的這個案子是有過的那核二重啓核三延役真的會執行嗎真的是核二可以重啓核三就會延役嗎民眾想知道的是這樣子的狀況是不是請我們主委這邊可以說明一下"},{"start":481.207,"end":501.208,"text":"這個部分能源政策還是要由經濟部來回答因為他這邊要從需求面政策面來著手我沒有問你政策我現在是問說以您在核安的專業上您的以您的專業的角度來看核二是可以重啟的嗎或是核三就直接是這樣可以研議的嗎他在這個他的執行面上"},{"start":503.63,"end":511.339,"text":"是可以這樣子直接就核二重啓或核三延役嗎?還是它必須經過怎樣的程序?或者說它必須經過怎樣的一個時程?"},{"start":513.646,"end":534.098,"text":"他必須經過很嚴格的一個安全審查那麼這個部分大概需要一段的很長的時間那麼發動者應該從經營者也就是台電當然前面必須要修法在前面必須能源政策確定那核安會其實是在後段"},{"start":535.459,"end":554.521,"text":"主要是著重在這個能源安全核能安全的部分那麼核二廠還有更大的麻煩因為他的乾除設施還沒有興建那麼他現在也這個用過燃料池也滿足剛才我在報告裡面都有說明所以他的困難度更高"},{"start":555.652,"end":558.114,"text":"主委在這邊我再跟你強調我今天沒有跟你問政策我也沒有跟你問說我們這個本身你們的立場在哪裡是為民眾來問因為民眾擔心核二重啓或是核三延役到底對民眾的生命健康安全影響有多大"},{"start":573.985,"end":578.007,"text":"他們很擔心萬一法案真的過了隨隨便便核二就重啟了核三就說延役就延役了那到底在安全上的評估有沒有經過一個審慎的一個程序是不是這樣子會不會造成大家生命財產健康的這個擔憂這個部分是民眾想要知道的所以我在這邊一直在這個問題上請你要說清楚說明白說說不是核二要重啟就重啟"},{"start":598.598,"end":598.798,"text":"好 那我時間到了 謝謝"}]}}}}