{"id":153205,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153205","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/2c978e04ca5e133186d7c795984acb505c2a8e696f21355c333bc5d453e1b1959986a74e07d9d2505ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"郭國文","委員發言時間":"09:45:53 - 09:57:02","影片長度":"00:11:09","會議時間":"2024-05-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿率所屬單位主管列席業務報告，並備質詢。）","date":"2024-05-29","duration":669,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-14"},"end_time":"2024-05-29T09:57:02+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-29T09:45:53+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":283,"blocks":[["郭委員國文：（9時46分）謝謝主席。有請主計長。主計長你好，很開心在這邊遇見你，我們算是老朋友了，我有幾個問題想就教於你。","你現在擔任的主計長角色非常關鍵，也就是掌握明年的預算，看如何在明年預算中落實賴總統的政見，為此，在預算編列時就要有所考量。有些政見內容屬於蔡英文總統的政策具延續性，像長照3.0或社會住宅2.0；還有一些屬於賴總統的新興政見，這需要新興的計畫來進行。各部會的部分你是不是已經有所掌握？明年這些相關政見落實的可能性，你內心有沒有譜？"],["陳主計長淑姿：這部分……如果要增加這麼多錢，可能中央能力……"],["郭委員國文：是怎樣？"],["陳主計長淑姿：能力上可能沒有辦法……"],["郭委員國文：沒有辦法？"],["陳主計長淑姿：各方面要做調整。"],["郭委員國文：差多少？"],["陳主計長淑姿：委員指的是中央補助的部分？"],["郭委員國文：不是！我現在不是問圖表內容，我一開始的開場白是講賴總統的政見要如何落實，這牽扯到主計總處明年度的預算，這很關鍵，剛剛吳委員有提醒，我也很擔心。也就是說，如果依財劃法分到地方去的話，或許真的會影響到賴總統政見的落實，對不對？"],["陳主計長淑姿：是。"],["郭委員國文：在法還沒通過之前，你是不是已經有所掌握了？畢竟還沒發生，所以趁還沒有發生之前趕快處理。"],["陳主計長淑姿：對於賴總統的政見落實，各部會都已經提出各項方案，就方案的初估，我們在4月底已分給各部會相關的金額與額度，請他們優先在額度裡去做調整支應。再來，如果說……"],["郭委員國文：也就是賴總統政見所需求的預算，已經有請他們調整支應？"],["陳主計長淑姿：對，所以6月中旬……"],["郭委員國文：該調整的就調整，該支應的就支應？錢的空間有沒有稍微增加？特別是在哪個部分？能否透露一下？即需要花比較多錢的部分。"],["陳主計長淑姿：為什麼？因為資源的分配必須有其優先順序，而六大政見大部分、很多都很重要，但還是有優先順序！"],["郭委員國文：你的優先順序是什麼？"],["陳主計長淑姿：大部分初估的金額是比照去年的額度，像公共建設計畫原則上先依照去年額度核給，但公共建設計畫中有很多計畫在今年達到付款高峰期；因為是付款高峰期，很多就必須支付。所以這部分，即公共建設計畫到底需要支付多少我們必須細算，我現在也沒辦法告訴委員大概會提高多少。但我們針對各項必須支付的要優先支應，並排列優先順序。"],["郭委員國文：你現在討講的都是原則，也沒有透露任何內容。我現在問你，你卻連內容都不透露！"],["陳主計長淑姿：原則上，內容就是跟各位……"],["郭委員國文：你認為賴總統政見的優先順序當中，最重要是哪一個？"],["陳主計長淑姿：現在給的基本額度，是以去年的額度為主。"],["郭委員國文：還是以去年的額度為基準來做調整？"],["陳主計長淑姿：是，但它會有一個……"],["郭委員國文：可是新增加的計畫要怎麼落實呢？"],["陳主計長淑姿：所以我們就必須要調整，但我必須要從哪裡去調整……"],["郭委員國文：挪用？移撥？"],["陳主計長淑姿：第二，如果稅收不夠支應，那就要減，要減哪些？這也必須跟各部會去做折衝……"],["郭委員國文：你現在講的都是原則。我覺得剛剛吳秉叡委員提醒的一點真的非常重要，如果財劃法現在通過的話，我剛剛聽到你的講法是說，可能在計劃型補助跟一般性補助做調整。因為就計劃型跟一般性補助來說，像112年度大概是8,682億元，但今年應該會超過9,000億，我評估這兩年地方政府大概短差500億。我認為地方政府短差500億以上這點要優先解決，這真的要思考。不然的話不是舉債，就是賣土地，這對社會會造成一些負面影響。這部分我建議，如果在野黨要求的話，我想他們要解決地方問題，就應該先把這問題處理好。其次，如果過度調高的話，那麼你手頭上可以做調整的一般性補助有2,121億，各部會計畫型補助是2,300多億元，所以你手頭上計畫型跟一般性補助大概有4,500億。也就是說，如果地方拿到太多的統籌分配款的話，就會以4,500億來做彈性處理，對不對？你還是有辦法吧？"],["陳主計長淑姿：因為一般性補助就是去調劑縣市的盈虛，但有一些縣市實在是……"],["郭委員國文：對！"],["陳主計長淑姿：歲入歲出差短很大……"],["郭委員國文：我們又陷入原則上的討論了。"],["陳主計長淑姿：原則上要去填補。第二，在計畫型補助部分，因為計畫型每個計畫補助的比例不一定……"],["郭委員國文：反正你就是有招就對了！地方如果統籌分配拿的比較多，那麼一般的與計畫型的補助就會給少一點，對不對？不然中央政府要怎麼運作？賴總統的政見要如何落實？他甚至用另外一種方式來杯葛，包括把預算稍微處理掉，那你怎麼玩？run不下去啊，對不對？所以你還是得因應這個問題。","其次，我認為不是中央跟地方，因為中央的橫向部分還是有富跟貧，縣市的貧富差距還是非常大。我倒是覺得臺灣現在的預算分配還是深陷於南北不均的問題！就南北不均的部分，特別是交通預算，雖然高雄跟桃園最近有比較多，還有新北也比較多，為什麼？因為他們在前瞻計畫時動不動就拿到500億、1,000億，對不對？可是臺南因為規劃速度比較慢，總共拿到的經費才多少？一億多！如果要說現階段的南北平衡有問題，我認為嚴格來說，北高平衡相對沒有問題，反而是北南、南北出現很大問題！這點我請主計長特別注意一下，看交通預算要怎麼配置，並與相關單位弄清楚，當接下來的前瞻計畫五期沒有的時候，後面的公共預算怎麼編？特別是晚到的、沒有辦法取得前瞻計畫經費的，你要怎麼處理，主計長？"],["陳主計長淑姿：前瞻計畫到後面只剩下703億，再來就沒有那個……"],["郭委員國文：對。"],["陳主計長淑姿：等於本來放在前瞻計畫的部分，將來勢必要回歸到公務預算上……"],["郭委員國文：是。"],["陳主計長淑姿：所以是不是能夠容納這麼大的額度，我們就必須在資源分配上要有很大的一個……"],["郭委員國文：我就是要請你想辦法啊！"],["陳主計長淑姿：是，這部分……"],["郭委員國文：我沒有像剛剛說的要兩兆啊！我只是希望能跟其他院轄市一樣而已！"],["陳主計長淑姿：是，所以這部分也是我們要努力的，我們也一直在跟財政部溝通，也就是在歲入方面也應該要有所提升，不然在這方面應該……"],["郭委員國文：我再就教你一個問題。本席來自臺南，你也是臺南出身的。臺灣內部基本上還是有城鄉差距問題、農村人口外移問題，若以空屋率來計算的話，越偏鄉越嚴重。要解決這問題需要透過農再基金，但原本1,500億的農再基金到今年2月為止剩下不到500億，還要推動第四期計畫。農業部要照顧農民福利、要做農業政策調整，所以農村再造的農再基金就非常關鍵，因為牽扯到農村重劃；農村如果沒有重劃的話，人口勢必會再流失。所以這部分能不能請主計長把基金規模填補起來，甚至是提高，有沒有可能？"],["陳主計長淑姿：好，一般來說，我們沒有閒錢放在農再基金裡，如果現在能夠支應的話，將來會視其實際的財務狀況去做撥補……"],["郭委員國文：現在就是不足啊！你要視財務狀況去做撥補啊，現在還有好幾個年度啊！你不要怕彈性運用的問題……"],["陳主計長淑姿：當初是維持在1,500億，而現在還有將近500億，因此若將來有不足的部分，我們可能……"],["郭委員國文：總不能等到見底吧？主計長？"],["陳主計長淑姿：是。"],["郭委員國文：一般的水位維持很重要，不然勞保財務基金為什麼要一直要維持在900億的原因在哪裡？就是看到政府對勞工的重視啊，農民也需要看到政府對農村的重視，不是嗎？"],["陳主計長淑姿：是，這方面我們其實是很重視的，這個部分我們也會循年度預算逐年來做討論與撥補……"],["郭委員國文：你知道嗎？為什麼我特別要提這個？總體來說，你這個應該優先考量，本席提醒你……"],["陳主計長淑姿：是。"],["郭委員國文：第二個，農委會提升為農業部之後，我去換算它的整個預算結構，29%加52%，一般的支出及義務性的支出加起來大概超過八成，真的能夠用在新興計畫的大概不到兩成，升格為部，預算1,500多億到1,600多億，其實微乎其微，講白一點，關鍵還是在預算，所以要如何改造，我是覺得這個部分很重要。","最後一個部分，剛剛有幾位委員提到，確實我們經濟成長率第一季的時候超乎預期，原來預估是3.43%，現在實際是6.51%，這是好現象。你的報告書當中，我也特別看到，你提到總薪資有提升，但是一般我們在看的都是實質經常性薪資，實質經常性薪資是減少的，也就是我們看到經濟一直成長、攀升，物價也一直高漲，最近的CPI雖然有down下來，可是對受薪階級來說，老實講，內心的壓力……非常的沉痛，為什麼整體經濟成長的時候，我們沒有分享到？有一些相關的數字，以後有機會我會給你。我只是做最後一個建議，我有要求審計部7月的時候提出一個改變低薪的專案報告，你有沒有可能針對這個問題提一個報告出來？"],["陳主計長淑姿：其實我們不看經常性薪資，因為一般公司如果有賺錢，它在紅利及發放的部分，所以總薪資市場……"],["郭委員國文：沒有，我不是看這個問題，我是說整體低薪的報告，我不用跟你辯論這個，我不是在跟你辯論統計數字哪一個比較重要，重點是你有沒有提出一個報告，站在主計總處的高位當中，相關的預算配置在你身上，你看到這個問題有沒有可能提出一個報告？"],["陳主計長淑姿：因為整個資源的分配要看各計畫……"],["主席：主計長，會後再跟郭委員報告。"],["陳主計長淑姿：是。"],["郭委員國文：謝謝主計長。"],["主席：請下一位顏寬恒委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":108,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-14","speakers":["郭國文","林德福","吳秉叡","顏寬恒","賴惠員","賴士葆","王鴻薇","王世堅","李彥秀","黃珊珊","李坤城","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳玉珍","羅明才","鄭天財Sra 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\"end\": 650.951, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 650.951, \"end\": 651.111, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"顏\"}, {\"word\": \"寬\"}, {\"word\": \"恆\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 651.111, \"end\": 651.131, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"en\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,441 --> 00:00:30,907\n主 計 長 你 好 很 開 心 在 這 邊 遇 見 你 我 們 算 是 老 朋 友 了 那 我 有 幾 個 問 題 想 要 就 教 於 您 我 想 你 現 在 擔 任 的 這 個 主 計 長 的 角 色 當 中 非 常 的 關 鍵 也 就 是 說 你 要 掌 握 住 明 年 的 預 算 而 明 年 的 預 算 如 何 落 實 賴 總 統 的 這 個 政 見 在 預 算 編 列 當 中 就 要 有 所 考 量\n\n2\n00:00:31,767 --> 00:00:55,857\n有 些 政 見 內 容 是 屬 於 蔡 英 文 總 統 政 策 的 延 續 性 像 長 照 3 . 0 或 者 社 會 住 宅 2 . 0 還 有 一 些 屬 於 世 代 總 統 的 一 個 新 興 的 政 見 也 要 有 新 興 的 計 畫 來 進 行 那 各 部 會 的 部 分 你 是 不 是 已 經 有 所 掌 握 那 明 年 的 這 些 相 關 的 政 見 的 落 實 的 可 能 性 你 內 心 有 沒 有 譜 了\n\n3\n00:00:58,550 --> 00:00:58,570\n市 長\n\n4\n00:01:07,642 --> 00:01:07,822\n藍 總 統 政 見 落 實\n\n5\n00:01:38,142 --> 00:01:45,705\n這 部 分 對 於 一 代 總 統 的 一 個 政 見 的 部 分 那 各 部 會 都 已 經 有 提 出 各 項 的 一 個 方 案 那 這 個 方 案 的 部 分 那 我 們 初 估 我 們 在 4 月 底 我 們 也 分 給 各 部 會 有 相 關 的 一 個 金 額 額 度 然 後 請 他 們 優 先 在 這 個 額 度 裡 面 去 做 調 整 之 意\n\n6\n00:02:08,694 --> 00:02:21,731\n拜 總 統 政 見 需 求 的 預 算 已 經 有 請 他 們 調 整 資 印 該 調 整 的 該 資 印 的 資 印 那 錢 的 空 間 有 沒 有 比 稍 微 要 增 加 多 少 特 別 是 哪 個 部 分 能 不 能 透 露 一 下\n\n7\n00:02:23,011 --> 00:02:42,520\n需 要 花 比 較 多 錢 的 部 分 因 為 資 源 的 分 配 必 須 有 優 先 順 序 當 然 六 大 的 政 見 裡 面 大 部 分 都 很 重 要 但 是 問 題 還 是 有 優 先 順 序 所 以 現 在 原 則 上 大 部 分 出 估 的 金 額 是 照 去 年 的 額 度\n\n8\n00:02:43,740 --> 00:03:12,641\n公 共 建 設 計 畫 的 部 分 原 則 上 依 照 去 年 的 額 度 先 河 給 他 但 是 公 共 建 設 計 畫 很 多 的 一 個 計 畫 是 今 年 到 了 付 款 的 高 峰 期 那 付 款 的 高 峰 期 那 你 很 多 就 必 須 要 支 付 所 以 你 這 個 部 分 公 共 建 設 計 畫 到 底 他 支 付 的 部 分 我 們 必 須 要 去 細 算 所 以 我 現 在 我 也 沒 辦 法 告 訴 你 說 大 概 他 會 提 高 多 少 但 是 我 們 要 必 須 就 是 說 針 對 各 項 必 須 支 付 的 要 優 先 之 應 的 來 排 列 優 先 順 序\n\n9\n00:03:12,981 --> 00:03:36,725\n你 現 在 討 論 的 你 講 的 都 是 原 則 你 都 沒 有 透 露 任 何 內 容 我 就 問 你 說 你 知 道 透 露 內 容 都 不 行 不 是 因 為 原 則 上 內 容 就 是 跟 各 位 就 政 見 上 你 認 為 就 優 先 順 序 待 總 統 優 先 順 序 當 中 最 重 要 是 哪 一 個 嗎 但 是 現 在 基 本 額 度 給 他 的 就 是 以 去 年 的 額 度 為 主 還 是 去 年 的 額 度 為 基 準 來 做 調 整 可 是 那 新 的 政 見 落 實 要 怎 麼 辦 呢\n\n10\n00:03:37,045 --> 00:03:37,346\n你 現 在 講 都 是 原 則 啦\n\n11\n00:03:53,229 --> 00:04:22,152\n但 是 我 剛 剛 覺 得 吳 秉 樂 委 員 提 醒 的 那 一 點 真 的 非 常 重 要 如 果 財 法 法 現 在 如 果 通 過 的 話 我 剛 剛 聽 到 你 的 講 法 是 說 你 現 在 呢 有 可 能 就 是 在 計 劃 型 補 助 跟 一 般 性 的 補 助 來 做 一 個 調 整 嘛 因 為 計 劃 型 跟 一 般 性 的 補 助 的 話 從 1 1 2 年 度 的 話 大 概 8 6 8 2 億 啦 在 今 年 的 話 應 該 會 超 過 9 0 0 0 億 這 兩 年 我 評 估 起 來 地 方 政 府 大 概 短 差 大 概 5 0 0 億 啦 我 是 認 為 地 方 政 府 的 部 分 短 差 5 0 0 億 以 上 你 要 優 先 解 決 啦 優 先 解 決 這 是 真 的 要 思 考 不 然 的 話 他 們 不 是 舉 債 不 然 就 賣 土 地 啊\n\n12\n00:04:23,292 --> 00:04:48,360\n這 對 社 會 問 題 都 造 成 一 些 負 面 的 影 響 這 個 部 分 我 建 議 是 這 樣 子 如 果 說 在 野 黨 要 求 這 個 的 話 他 們 要 解 決 地 方 問 題 的 話 應 該 先 把 這 個 問 題 先 處 理 好 但 是 第 二 個 部 分 如 果 他 們 過 度 調 高 的 話 你 現 在 手 頭 上 可 以 做 調 整 的 是 一 般 性 的 補 助 有 2 1 2 1 億 各 部 分 不 然 2 3 0 0 億 但 手 頭 上 大 概 你 用 計 劃 型 跟 一 般 型 大 概 4 5 0 0 億 也 就 是 說 如 果 他 拿 到 太 多 的 統 籌 分 配 卡 你 就 會 用 4 5 0 0 億 來 做 彈 性 的 處 理 對 不 對 你 還 是 有 辦 法 嘛\n\n13\n00:04:52,182 --> 00:05:15,171\n因 為 一 般 性 補 助 呢 就 是 去 調 劑 縣 市 的 營 需 嘛 那 當 然 因 為 有 一 些 縣 市 它 實 在 是 稅 數 稅 數 差 的 很 大 你 又 限 原 則 要 去 填 補 那 第 二 個 呢 計 劃 型 補 助 的 部 分 因 為 計 劃 型 每 個 計 劃 它 補 助 的 比 例 不 一 定 反 正 你 就 是 有 招 就 是 了 它 如 果 統 籌 會 不 會 給 你 拿 比 較 多 你 一 般 的 跟 計 劃 型 的 你 就 要 給 它 少 一 點 嘛 對 不 對\n\n14\n00:05:16,051 --> 00:05:38,026\n中 央 政 府 怎 麼 運 作 你 來 總 統 的 政 見 如 何 落 實 他 用 另 外 一 種 方 式 來 跟 你 杯 葛 把 你 整 個 預 算 稍 微 幫 你 處 理 掉 那 你 怎 麼 玩 弄 不 下 去 嘛 對 不 對 所 以 你 還 是 得 因 應 這 個 問 題 嘛 那 第 二 個 部 分 呢 我 是 認 為 不 是 中 央 跟 地 方 因 為 中 央 的 橫 向 的 部 分 還 是 有 負 跟 平 啦 現 實 真 的 貧 富 差 距 還 是 非 常 的 大 我 倒 是 覺 得 台 灣 現 在 的 預 算\n\n15\n00:05:39,827 --> 00:05:39,987\n委 員 會 主 席\n\n16\n00:06:04,902 --> 00:06:33,149\n如 果 說 現 階 段 的 話 南 北 平 衡 有 問 題 現 在 嚴 格 來 說 北 高 平 衡 相 對 沒 有 問 題 反 而 是 北 南 南 北 出 現 很 大 問 題 這 一 點 我 要 請 主 計 長 你 要 特 別 注 意 一 下 這 個 部 份 的 這 個 交 通 預 算 的 部 份 要 去 怎 麼 配 置 的 部 份 應 該 跟 相 關 的 單 位 弄 清 楚 前 端 計 畫 接 下 來 五 期 沒 有 的 時 候 後 面 的 公 共 預 算 怎 麼 編 這 些 呢 後 來 呢 玩 到 的 後 來 呢 沒 有 辦 法\n\n17\n00:06:34,192 --> 00:06:37,088\n沒 有 辦 法 取 得 前 瞻 計 畫 了 , 你 要 怎 麼 處 理 ? 主 席 長\n\n18\n00:06:39,190 --> 00:07:05,924\n像 一 般 前 瞻 計 畫 因 為 到 後 面 只 剩 下 7 0 3 億 再 來 就 沒 有 那 個 但 是 如 果 說 等 於 本 來 放 在 前 瞻 計 畫 的 部 分 將 來 勢 必 要 回 歸 啦 回 歸 到 一 般 的 預 算 公 務 預 算 上 面 去 那 所 以 是 不 是 能 夠 容 納 這 麼 大 一 個 那 個 額 度 的 一 個 深 這 個 我 們 就 必 須 要 資 源 的 分 配 的 部 分 就 要 很 大 的 一 個 我 就 是 要 請 你 想 辦 法\n\n19\n00:07:06,764 --> 00:07:24,098\n我 沒 有 像 剛 剛 說 要 兩 兆 啊 我 只 是 要 其 他 的 院 轄 市 的 部 分 一 樣 而 已 啊 是 所 以 這 個 部 分 也 是 我 們 要 努 力 的 那 我 們 也 一 直 也 在 跟 財 政 部 來 溝 通 就 是 說 他 在 稅 率 方 面 似 乎 也 應 該 要 有 所 提 升 不 然 在 這 方 面 是 因 為\n\n20\n00:07:24,398 --> 00:07:53,024\n我 就 再 就 教 你 一 個 問 題 好 了 因 為 本 席 台 南 你 也 是 從 台 南 出 生 嘛 台 南 的 部 分 呢 基 本 上 這 個 內 部 還 有 城 鄉 差 距 的 問 題 農 村 人 口 外 移 以 空 污 率 來 計 算 的 話 越 偏 鄉 是 越 嚴 重 但 是 這 個 問 題 呢 在 農 業 部 的 部 分 呢 他 需 要 透 過 農 債 基 金 可 是 農 債 基 金 到 今 年 二 月 為 止 剩 下 不 到 五 百 億 他 原 來 是 一 千 五 百 億 啊 要 推 動 第 四 期 的 計 畫 過 去 農 業 部 的 部 分 呢 有 農 民 的 福 利 農 業 的 這 個 政 策 的 調 整\n\n21\n00:07:54,304 --> 00:08:13,653\n差 別 現 在 農 村 的 一 個 重 造 農 村 的 重 造 農 災 基 金 就 非 常 的 關 鍵 現 在 到 農 村 的 這 個 重 化 農 村 如 果 沒 有 重 化 的 話 那 人 口 一 定 會 勢 必 再 流 失 也 就 這 個 部 分 呢 能 不 能 請 主 計 長 把 這 個 資 金 的 這 個 規 模 一 來 把 它 先 填 補 二 來 把 它 提 高 的 可 能 性 有 沒 有 可 能\n\n22\n00:08:15,576 --> 00:08:25,289\n融 債 基 金 的 部 分 本 來 就 是 說 一 般 我 們 是 坦 白 說 我 們 沒 有 閒 錢 去 放 在 那 裡 但 是 如 果 他 現 在 能 夠 支 應 將 來 我 們 是 他 實 際 的 一 個 財 務 狀 況 來 去 做 撥 補\n\n23\n00:08:30,576 --> 00:08:55,016\n現 在 不 足 啊 你 要 適 持 財 務 這 個 狀 況 差 不 多 需 要 撥 補 啊 現 在 好 幾 年 度 啊 你 不 要 怕 財 新 運 用 的 問 題 嘛 但 是 他 當 初 是 維 持 1 5 0 0 億 嘛 但 是 如 果 現 在 他 還 有 將 近 5 0 0 億 啦 所 以 如 果 說 將 來 實 質 上 不 足 的 部 分 總 不 能 等 到 見 底 吧 主 席 長 你 知 道 嗎 那 一 般 的 水 位 很 重 要 維 持 不 然 我 們 勞 保 財 務 基 金 為 什 麼 一 直 要 維 持 9 0 0 億 的 原 因 在 哪 裡\n\n24\n00:08:55,777 --> 00:08:56,518\n政 府 對 農 村 的 重 視 嗎 ?\n\n25\n00:09:15,361 --> 00:09:39,832\n整 個 農 委 會 提 升 為 農 業 部 之 後 我 去 換 算 整 個 預 算 結 構 5 2 % 加 2 9 % 加 一 般 的 支 出 跟 一 個 義 務 型 的 支 出 加 起 來 就 超 過 八 成 他 真 的 能 夠 用 在 新 興 計 畫 大 概 不 到 兩 成 升 格 為 一 千 五 百 多 億 到 一 千 六 百 多 億 其 實 微 乎 其 微 講 白 一 點 關 鍵 還 是 在 預 算 所 以 如 何 要 改 造 我 是 覺 得 這 個 部 分 很 重 要\n\n26\n00:09:40,532 --> 00:09:57,286\n那 最 後 一 個 部 分 剛 剛 有 幾 位 委 員 有 提 到 確 實 我 們 經 濟 成 長 率 第 一 季 的 時 候 超 乎 預 期 原 來 是 3 . 4 3 現 在 變 6 . 5 1 這 是 好 現 象 但 是 您 的 報 告 書 當 中 我 也 特 別 看 到 你 有 提 到 說 那 個 總 薪 資 率 有 提 升 但 是 一 般 我 們 在 看 的 都 是 看 實 質\n\n27\n00:09:58,467 --> 00:10:02,431\n經 常 性 薪 資 其 實 經 常 性 薪 資 是 減 少 的 也 就 是 說 我 們 看 到 的 經 濟 成 長 就 一 直 攀 升 我 們 看 到 物 價 一 直 高 最 近 C P I 雖 然 有 D O W N 下 來 可 是 對 壽 星 階 級 來 說 老 實 講 內 心 的 壓 力 非 常 的 沉 痛 為 什 麼 整 體 經 濟 成 長 的 時 候 我 們 沒 有 被 分 享 到 有 相 關 的 數 字 以 後 有 機 會 我 會 給 你 但 是 我 只 是 做 一 個 最 後 一 個 建 議\n\n28\n00:10:21,211 --> 00:10:49,030\n審 計 部 這 個 部 分 我 有 要 求 他 7 月 的 時 候 提 出 一 個 專 題 低 薪 改 變 的 一 個 專 案 報 告 你 有 沒 有 可 能 針 對 這 個 問 題 來 提 出 一 個 報 告 出 來 因 為 其 實 齁 我 們 不 看 經 常 信 心 值 因 為 一 般 公 司 如 果 有 賺 錢 他 在 紅 利 啊 在 那 個 不 是 看 這 個 問 題 我 是 不 是 說 整 體 低 薪 的 報 告 我 不 要 跟 你 辯 論 這 個 啦 我 應 該 跟 你 辯 論 統 計 數 字 哪 一 個 比 較 重 要 重 點 是 你 有 沒 有 提 出 一 個 報 告 站 在 一 個 主 計 處 的 一 個 高 位 當 中 相 關 的 預 算 的 配 置 在 你 身 上 你 有 沒 有 可 能 提 出 一 個 報 告 來 看 到 這 個 問 題 啦\n\n29\n00:10:50,230 --> 00:10:51,131\n主 計 長 會 後 再 跟 國 委 員 報 告 了 下 一 位 顏 寬 恆 委 員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7441\t30907\t主計長你好很開心在這邊遇見你我們算是老朋友了那我有幾個問題想要就教於您我想你現在擔任的這個主計長的角色當中非常的關鍵也就是說你要掌握住明年的預算而明年的預算如何落實賴總統的這個政見在預算編列當中就要有所考量\n31767\t55857\t有些政見內容是屬於蔡英文總統政策的延續性像長照3.0或者社會住宅2.0還有一些屬於世代總統的一個新興的政見也要有新興的計畫來進行那各部會的部分你是不是已經有所掌握那明年的這些相關的政見的落實的可能性你內心有沒有譜了\n58550\t58570\t市長\n67642\t67822\t藍總統政見落實\n98142\t105705\t這部分對於一代總統的一個政見的部分那各部會都已經有提出各項的一個方案那這個方案的部分那我們初估我們在4月底我們也分給各部會有相關的一個金額額度然後請他們優先在這個額度裡面去做調整之意\n128694\t141731\t拜總統政見需求的預算已經有請他們調整資印該調整的該資印的資印那錢的空間有沒有比稍微要增加多少特別是哪個部分能不能透露一下\n143011\t162520\t需要花比較多錢的部分因為資源的分配必須有優先順序當然六大的政見裡面大部分都很重要但是問題還是有優先順序所以現在原則上大部分出估的金額是照去年的額度\n163740\t192641\t公共建設計畫的部分原則上依照去年的額度先河給他但是公共建設計畫很多的一個計畫是今年到了付款的高峰期那付款的高峰期那你很多就必須要支付所以你這個部分公共建設計畫到底他支付的部分我們必須要去細算所以我現在我也沒辦法告訴你說大概他會提高多少但是我們要必須就是說針對各項必須支付的要優先之應的來排列優先順序\n192981\t216725\t你現在討論的你講的都是原則你都沒有透露任何內容我就問你說你知道透露內容都不行不是因為原則上內容就是跟各位就政見上你認為就優先順序待總統優先順序當中最重要是哪一個嗎但是現在基本額度給他的就是以去年的額度為主還是去年的額度為基準來做調整可是那新的政見落實要怎麼辦呢\n217045\t217346\t你現在講都是原則啦\n233229\t262152\t但是我剛剛覺得吳秉樂委員提醒的那一點真的非常重要如果財法法現在如果通過的話我剛剛聽到你的講法是說你現在呢有可能就是在計劃型補助跟一般性的補助來做一個調整嘛因為計劃型跟一般性的補助的話從112年度的話大概8682億啦在今年的話應該會超過9000億這兩年我評估起來地方政府大概短差大概500億啦我是認為地方政府的部分短差500億以上你要優先解決啦優先解決這是真的要思考不然的話他們不是舉債不然就賣土地啊\n263292\t288360\t這對社會問題都造成一些負面的影響這個部分我建議是這樣子如果說在野黨要求這個的話他們要解決地方問題的話應該先把這個問題先處理好但是第二個部分如果他們過度調高的話你現在手頭上可以做調整的是一般性的補助有2121億各部分不然2300億但手頭上大概你用計劃型跟一般型大概4500億也就是說如果他拿到太多的統籌分配卡你就會用4500億來做彈性的處理對不對你還是有辦法嘛\n292182\t315171\t因為一般性補助呢就是去調劑縣市的營需嘛那當然因為有一些縣市它實在是稅數稅數差的很大你又限原則要去填補那第二個呢計劃型補助的部分因為計劃型每個計劃它補助的比例不一定反正你就是有招就是了它如果統籌會不會給你拿比較多你一般的跟計劃型的你就要給它少一點嘛對不對\n316051\t338026\t中央政府怎麼運作你來總統的政見如何落實他用另外一種方式來跟你杯葛把你整個預算稍微幫你處理掉那你怎麼玩弄不下去嘛對不對所以你還是得因應這個問題嘛那第二個部分呢我是認為不是中央跟地方因為中央的橫向的部分還是有負跟平啦現實真的貧富差距還是非常的大我倒是覺得台灣現在的預算\n339827\t339987\t委員會主席\n364902\t393149\t如果說現階段的話南北平衡有問題現在嚴格來說北高平衡相對沒有問題反而是北南南北出現很大問題這一點我要請主計長你要特別注意一下這個部份的這個交通預算的部份要去怎麼配置的部份應該跟相關的單位弄清楚前端計畫接下來五期沒有的時候後面的公共預算怎麼編這些呢後來呢玩到的後來呢沒有辦法\n394192\t397088\t沒有辦法取得前瞻計畫了,你要怎麼處理?主席長\n399190\t425924\t像一般前瞻計畫因為到後面只剩下703億再來就沒有那個但是如果說等於本來放在前瞻計畫的部分將來勢必要回歸啦回歸到一般的預算公務預算上面去那所以是不是能夠容納這麼大一個那個額度的一個深這個我們就必須要資源的分配的部分就要很大的一個我就是要請你想辦法\n426764\t444098\t我沒有像剛剛說要兩兆啊我只是要其他的院轄市的部分一樣而已啊是 所以這個部分也是我們要努力的那我們也一直也在跟財政部來溝通就是說他在稅率方面似乎也應該要有所提升不然在這方面是因為\n444398\t473024\t我就再就教你一個問題好了因為本席台南你也是從台南出生嘛台南的部分呢基本上這個內部還有城鄉差距的問題農村人口外移以空污率來計算的話越偏鄉是越嚴重但是這個問題呢在農業部的部分呢他需要透過農債基金可是農債基金到今年二月為止剩下不到五百億他原來是一千五百億啊要推動第四期的計畫過去農業部的部分呢有農民的福利農業的這個政策的調整\n474304\t493653\t差別現在農村的一個重造農村的重造農災基金就非常的關鍵現在到農村的這個重化農村如果沒有重化的話那人口一定會勢必再流失也就這個部分呢能不能請主計長把這個資金的這個規模一來把它先填補二來把它提高的可能性有沒有可能\n495576\t505289\t融債基金的部分本來就是說一般我們是坦白說我們沒有閒錢去放在那裡但是如果他現在能夠支應將來我們是他實際的一個財務狀況來去做撥補\n510576\t535016\t現在不足啊 你要適持財務這個狀況差不多需要撥補啊 現在好幾年度啊你不要怕財新運用的問題嘛但是他當初是維持1500億嘛 但是如果現在他還有將近500億啦所以如果說將來實質上不足的部分總不能等到見底吧 主席長你知道嗎 那一般的水位很重要維持 不然我們勞保財務基金為什麼一直要維持900億的原因在哪裡\n535777\t536518\t政府對農村的重視嗎?\n555361\t579832\t整個農委會提升為農業部之後我去換算整個預算結構52%加29%加一般的支出跟一個義務型的支出加起來就超過八成他真的能夠用在新興計畫大概不到兩成升格為一千五百多億到一千六百多億其實微乎其微講白一點關鍵還是在預算所以如何要改造我是覺得這個部分很重要\n580532\t597286\t那最後一個部分剛剛有幾位委員有提到確實我們經濟成長率第一季的時候超乎預期原來是3.43現在變6.51這是好現象但是您的報告書當中我也特別看到你有提到說那個總薪資率有提升但是一般我們在看的都是看實質\n598467\t602431\t經常性薪資其實經常性薪資是減少的也就是說我們看到的經濟成長就一直攀升我們看到物價一直高最近CPI雖然有DOWN下來可是對壽星階級來說老實講內心的壓力非常的沉痛為什麼整體經濟成長的時候我們沒有被分享到有相關的數字以後有機會我會給你但是我只是做一個最後一個建議\n621211\t649030\t審計部這個部分我有要求他7月的時候提出一個專題低薪改變的一個專案報告你有沒有可能針對這個問題來提出一個報告出來因為其實齁我們不看經常信心值因為一般公司如果有賺錢他在紅利啊在那個不是看這個問題我是不是說整體低薪的報告我不要跟你辯論這個啦我應該跟你辯論統計數字哪一個比較重要重點是你有沒有提出一個報告站在一個主計處的一個高位當中相關的預算的配置在你身上你有沒有可能提出一個報告來看到這個問題啦\n650230\t651131\t主計長會後再跟國委員報告了下一位顏寬恆委員\n","txt":"主計長你好很開心在這邊遇見你我們算是老朋友了那我有幾個問題想要就教於您我想你現在擔任的這個主計長的角色當中非常的關鍵也就是說你要掌握住明年的預算而明年的預算如何落實賴總統的這個政見在預算編列當中就要有所考量\n有些政見內容是屬於蔡英文總統政策的延續性像長照3.0或者社會住宅2.0還有一些屬於世代總統的一個新興的政見也要有新興的計畫來進行那各部會的部分你是不是已經有所掌握那明年的這些相關的政見的落實的可能性你內心有沒有譜了\n市長\n藍總統政見落實\n這部分對於一代總統的一個政見的部分那各部會都已經有提出各項的一個方案那這個方案的部分那我們初估我們在4月底我們也分給各部會有相關的一個金額額度然後請他們優先在這個額度裡面去做調整之意\n拜總統政見需求的預算已經有請他們調整資印該調整的該資印的資印那錢的空間有沒有比稍微要增加多少特別是哪個部分能不能透露一下\n需要花比較多錢的部分因為資源的分配必須有優先順序當然六大的政見裡面大部分都很重要但是問題還是有優先順序所以現在原則上大部分出估的金額是照去年的額度\n公共建設計畫的部分原則上依照去年的額度先河給他但是公共建設計畫很多的一個計畫是今年到了付款的高峰期那付款的高峰期那你很多就必須要支付所以你這個部分公共建設計畫到底他支付的部分我們必須要去細算所以我現在我也沒辦法告訴你說大概他會提高多少但是我們要必須就是說針對各項必須支付的要優先之應的來排列優先順序\n你現在討論的你講的都是原則你都沒有透露任何內容我就問你說你知道透露內容都不行不是因為原則上內容就是跟各位就政見上你認為就優先順序待總統優先順序當中最重要是哪一個嗎但是現在基本額度給他的就是以去年的額度為主還是去年的額度為基準來做調整可是那新的政見落實要怎麼辦呢\n你現在講都是原則啦\n但是我剛剛覺得吳秉樂委員提醒的那一點真的非常重要如果財法法現在如果通過的話我剛剛聽到你的講法是說你現在呢有可能就是在計劃型補助跟一般性的補助來做一個調整嘛因為計劃型跟一般性的補助的話從112年度的話大概8682億啦在今年的話應該會超過9000億這兩年我評估起來地方政府大概短差大概500億啦我是認為地方政府的部分短差500億以上你要優先解決啦優先解決這是真的要思考不然的話他們不是舉債不然就賣土地啊\n這對社會問題都造成一些負面的影響這個部分我建議是這樣子如果說在野黨要求這個的話他們要解決地方問題的話應該先把這個問題先處理好但是第二個部分如果他們過度調高的話你現在手頭上可以做調整的是一般性的補助有2121億各部分不然2300億但手頭上大概你用計劃型跟一般型大概4500億也就是說如果他拿到太多的統籌分配卡你就會用4500億來做彈性的處理對不對你還是有辦法嘛\n因為一般性補助呢就是去調劑縣市的營需嘛那當然因為有一些縣市它實在是稅數稅數差的很大你又限原則要去填補那第二個呢計劃型補助的部分因為計劃型每個計劃它補助的比例不一定反正你就是有招就是了它如果統籌會不會給你拿比較多你一般的跟計劃型的你就要給它少一點嘛對不對\n中央政府怎麼運作你來總統的政見如何落實他用另外一種方式來跟你杯葛把你整個預算稍微幫你處理掉那你怎麼玩弄不下去嘛對不對所以你還是得因應這個問題嘛那第二個部分呢我是認為不是中央跟地方因為中央的橫向的部分還是有負跟平啦現實真的貧富差距還是非常的大我倒是覺得台灣現在的預算\n委員會主席\n如果說現階段的話南北平衡有問題現在嚴格來說北高平衡相對沒有問題反而是北南南北出現很大問題這一點我要請主計長你要特別注意一下這個部份的這個交通預算的部份要去怎麼配置的部份應該跟相關的單位弄清楚前端計畫接下來五期沒有的時候後面的公共預算怎麼編這些呢後來呢玩到的後來呢沒有辦法\n沒有辦法取得前瞻計畫了,你要怎麼處理?主席長\n像一般前瞻計畫因為到後面只剩下703億再來就沒有那個但是如果說等於本來放在前瞻計畫的部分將來勢必要回歸啦回歸到一般的預算公務預算上面去那所以是不是能夠容納這麼大一個那個額度的一個深這個我們就必須要資源的分配的部分就要很大的一個我就是要請你想辦法\n我沒有像剛剛說要兩兆啊我只是要其他的院轄市的部分一樣而已啊是 所以這個部分也是我們要努力的那我們也一直也在跟財政部來溝通就是說他在稅率方面似乎也應該要有所提升不然在這方面是因為\n我就再就教你一個問題好了因為本席台南你也是從台南出生嘛台南的部分呢基本上這個內部還有城鄉差距的問題農村人口外移以空污率來計算的話越偏鄉是越嚴重但是這個問題呢在農業部的部分呢他需要透過農債基金可是農債基金到今年二月為止剩下不到五百億他原來是一千五百億啊要推動第四期的計畫過去農業部的部分呢有農民的福利農業的這個政策的調整\n差別現在農村的一個重造農村的重造農災基金就非常的關鍵現在到農村的這個重化農村如果沒有重化的話那人口一定會勢必再流失也就這個部分呢能不能請主計長把這個資金的這個規模一來把它先填補二來把它提高的可能性有沒有可能\n融債基金的部分本來就是說一般我們是坦白說我們沒有閒錢去放在那裡但是如果他現在能夠支應將來我們是他實際的一個財務狀況來去做撥補\n現在不足啊 你要適持財務這個狀況差不多需要撥補啊 現在好幾年度啊你不要怕財新運用的問題嘛但是他當初是維持1500億嘛 但是如果現在他還有將近500億啦所以如果說將來實質上不足的部分總不能等到見底吧 主席長你知道嗎 那一般的水位很重要維持 不然我們勞保財務基金為什麼一直要維持900億的原因在哪裡\n政府對農村的重視嗎?\n整個農委會提升為農業部之後我去換算整個預算結構52%加29%加一般的支出跟一個義務型的支出加起來就超過八成他真的能夠用在新興計畫大概不到兩成升格為一千五百多億到一千六百多億其實微乎其微講白一點關鍵還是在預算所以如何要改造我是覺得這個部分很重要\n那最後一個部分剛剛有幾位委員有提到確實我們經濟成長率第一季的時候超乎預期原來是3.43現在變6.51這是好現象但是您的報告書當中我也特別看到你有提到說那個總薪資率有提升但是一般我們在看的都是看實質\n經常性薪資其實經常性薪資是減少的也就是說我們看到的經濟成長就一直攀升我們看到物價一直高最近CPI雖然有DOWN下來可是對壽星階級來說老實講內心的壓力非常的沉痛為什麼整體經濟成長的時候我們沒有被分享到有相關的數字以後有機會我會給你但是我只是做一個最後一個建議\n審計部這個部分我有要求他7月的時候提出一個專題低薪改變的一個專案報告你有沒有可能針對這個問題來提出一個報告出來因為其實齁我們不看經常信心值因為一般公司如果有賺錢他在紅利啊在那個不是看這個問題我是不是說整體低薪的報告我不要跟你辯論這個啦我應該跟你辯論統計數字哪一個比較重要重點是你有沒有提出一個報告站在一個主計處的一個高位當中相關的預算的配置在你身上你有沒有可能提出一個報告來看到這個問題啦\n主計長會後再跟國委員報告了下一位顏寬恆委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.441 --> 00:30.907\n主 計 長 你 好 很 開 心 在 這 邊 遇 見 你 我 們 算 是 老 朋 友 了 那 我 有 幾 個 問 題 想 要 就 教 於 您 我 想 你 現 在 擔 任 的 這 個 主 計 長 的 角 色 當 中 非 常 的 關 鍵 也 就 是 說 你 要 掌 握 住 明 年 的 預 算 而 明 年 的 預 算 如 何 落 實 賴 總 統 的 這 個 政 見 在 預 算 編 列 當 中 就 要 有 所 考 量\n\n00:31.767 --> 00:55.857\n有 些 政 見 內 容 是 屬 於 蔡 英 文 總 統 政 策 的 延 續 性 像 長 照 3 . 0 或 者 社 會 住 宅 2 . 0 還 有 一 些 屬 於 世 代 總 統 的 一 個 新 興 的 政 見 也 要 有 新 興 的 計 畫 來 進 行 那 各 部 會 的 部 分 你 是 不 是 已 經 有 所 掌 握 那 明 年 的 這 些 相 關 的 政 見 的 落 實 的 可 能 性 你 內 心 有 沒 有 譜 了\n\n00:58.550 --> 00:58.570\n市 長\n\n01:07.642 --> 01:07.822\n藍 總 統 政 見 落 實\n\n01:38.142 --> 01:45.705\n這 部 分 對 於 一 代 總 統 的 一 個 政 見 的 部 分 那 各 部 會 都 已 經 有 提 出 各 項 的 一 個 方 案 那 這 個 方 案 的 部 分 那 我 們 初 估 我 們 在 4 月 底 我 們 也 分 給 各 部 會 有 相 關 的 一 個 金 額 額 度 然 後 請 他 們 優 先 在 這 個 額 度 裡 面 去 做 調 整 之 意\n\n02:08.694 --> 02:21.731\n拜 總 統 政 見 需 求 的 預 算 已 經 有 請 他 們 調 整 資 印 該 調 整 的 該 資 印 的 資 印 那 錢 的 空 間 有 沒 有 比 稍 微 要 增 加 多 少 特 別 是 哪 個 部 分 能 不 能 透 露 一 下\n\n02:23.011 --> 02:42.520\n需 要 花 比 較 多 錢 的 部 分 因 為 資 源 的 分 配 必 須 有 優 先 順 序 當 然 六 大 的 政 見 裡 面 大 部 分 都 很 重 要 但 是 問 題 還 是 有 優 先 順 序 所 以 現 在 原 則 上 大 部 分 出 估 的 金 額 是 照 去 年 的 額 度\n\n02:43.740 --> 03:12.641\n公 共 建 設 計 畫 的 部 分 原 則 上 依 照 去 年 的 額 度 先 河 給 他 但 是 公 共 建 設 計 畫 很 多 的 一 個 計 畫 是 今 年 到 了 付 款 的 高 峰 期 那 付 款 的 高 峰 期 那 你 很 多 就 必 須 要 支 付 所 以 你 這 個 部 分 公 共 建 設 計 畫 到 底 他 支 付 的 部 分 我 們 必 須 要 去 細 算 所 以 我 現 在 我 也 沒 辦 法 告 訴 你 說 大 概 他 會 提 高 多 少 但 是 我 們 要 必 須 就 是 說 針 對 各 項 必 須 支 付 的 要 優 先 之 應 的 來 排 列 優 先 順 序\n\n03:12.981 --> 03:36.725\n你 現 在 討 論 的 你 講 的 都 是 原 則 你 都 沒 有 透 露 任 何 內 容 我 就 問 你 說 你 知 道 透 露 內 容 都 不 行 不 是 因 為 原 則 上 內 容 就 是 跟 各 位 就 政 見 上 你 認 為 就 優 先 順 序 待 總 統 優 先 順 序 當 中 最 重 要 是 哪 一 個 嗎 但 是 現 在 基 本 額 度 給 他 的 就 是 以 去 年 的 額 度 為 主 還 是 去 年 的 額 度 為 基 準 來 做 調 整 可 是 那 新 的 政 見 落 實 要 怎 麼 辦 呢\n\n03:37.045 --> 03:37.346\n你 現 在 講 都 是 原 則 啦\n\n03:53.229 --> 04:22.152\n但 是 我 剛 剛 覺 得 吳 秉 樂 委 員 提 醒 的 那 一 點 真 的 非 常 重 要 如 果 財 法 法 現 在 如 果 通 過 的 話 我 剛 剛 聽 到 你 的 講 法 是 說 你 現 在 呢 有 可 能 就 是 在 計 劃 型 補 助 跟 一 般 性 的 補 助 來 做 一 個 調 整 嘛 因 為 計 劃 型 跟 一 般 性 的 補 助 的 話 從 1 1 2 年 度 的 話 大 概 8 6 8 2 億 啦 在 今 年 的 話 應 該 會 超 過 9 0 0 0 億 這 兩 年 我 評 估 起 來 地 方 政 府 大 概 短 差 大 概 5 0 0 億 啦 我 是 認 為 地 方 政 府 的 部 分 短 差 5 0 0 億 以 上 你 要 優 先 解 決 啦 優 先 解 決 這 是 真 的 要 思 考 不 然 的 話 他 們 不 是 舉 債 不 然 就 賣 土 地 啊\n\n04:23.292 --> 04:48.360\n這 對 社 會 問 題 都 造 成 一 些 負 面 的 影 響 這 個 部 分 我 建 議 是 這 樣 子 如 果 說 在 野 黨 要 求 這 個 的 話 他 們 要 解 決 地 方 問 題 的 話 應 該 先 把 這 個 問 題 先 處 理 好 但 是 第 二 個 部 分 如 果 他 們 過 度 調 高 的 話 你 現 在 手 頭 上 可 以 做 調 整 的 是 一 般 性 的 補 助 有 2 1 2 1 億 各 部 分 不 然 2 3 0 0 億 但 手 頭 上 大 概 你 用 計 劃 型 跟 一 般 型 大 概 4 5 0 0 億 也 就 是 說 如 果 他 拿 到 太 多 的 統 籌 分 配 卡 你 就 會 用 4 5 0 0 億 來 做 彈 性 的 處 理 對 不 對 你 還 是 有 辦 法 嘛\n\n04:52.182 --> 05:15.171\n因 為 一 般 性 補 助 呢 就 是 去 調 劑 縣 市 的 營 需 嘛 那 當 然 因 為 有 一 些 縣 市 它 實 在 是 稅 數 稅 數 差 的 很 大 你 又 限 原 則 要 去 填 補 那 第 二 個 呢 計 劃 型 補 助 的 部 分 因 為 計 劃 型 每 個 計 劃 它 補 助 的 比 例 不 一 定 反 正 你 就 是 有 招 就 是 了 它 如 果 統 籌 會 不 會 給 你 拿 比 較 多 你 一 般 的 跟 計 劃 型 的 你 就 要 給 它 少 一 點 嘛 對 不 對\n\n05:16.051 --> 05:38.026\n中 央 政 府 怎 麼 運 作 你 來 總 統 的 政 見 如 何 落 實 他 用 另 外 一 種 方 式 來 跟 你 杯 葛 把 你 整 個 預 算 稍 微 幫 你 處 理 掉 那 你 怎 麼 玩 弄 不 下 去 嘛 對 不 對 所 以 你 還 是 得 因 應 這 個 問 題 嘛 那 第 二 個 部 分 呢 我 是 認 為 不 是 中 央 跟 地 方 因 為 中 央 的 橫 向 的 部 分 還 是 有 負 跟 平 啦 現 實 真 的 貧 富 差 距 還 是 非 常 的 大 我 倒 是 覺 得 台 灣 現 在 的 預 算\n\n05:39.827 --> 05:39.987\n委 員 會 主 席\n\n06:04.902 --> 06:33.149\n如 果 說 現 階 段 的 話 南 北 平 衡 有 問 題 現 在 嚴 格 來 說 北 高 平 衡 相 對 沒 有 問 題 反 而 是 北 南 南 北 出 現 很 大 問 題 這 一 點 我 要 請 主 計 長 你 要 特 別 注 意 一 下 這 個 部 份 的 這 個 交 通 預 算 的 部 份 要 去 怎 麼 配 置 的 部 份 應 該 跟 相 關 的 單 位 弄 清 楚 前 端 計 畫 接 下 來 五 期 沒 有 的 時 候 後 面 的 公 共 預 算 怎 麼 編 這 些 呢 後 來 呢 玩 到 的 後 來 呢 沒 有 辦 法\n\n06:34.192 --> 06:37.088\n沒 有 辦 法 取 得 前 瞻 計 畫 了 , 你 要 怎 麼 處 理 ? 主 席 長\n\n06:39.190 --> 07:05.924\n像 一 般 前 瞻 計 畫 因 為 到 後 面 只 剩 下 7 0 3 億 再 來 就 沒 有 那 個 但 是 如 果 說 等 於 本 來 放 在 前 瞻 計 畫 的 部 分 將 來 勢 必 要 回 歸 啦 回 歸 到 一 般 的 預 算 公 務 預 算 上 面 去 那 所 以 是 不 是 能 夠 容 納 這 麼 大 一 個 那 個 額 度 的 一 個 深 這 個 我 們 就 必 須 要 資 源 的 分 配 的 部 分 就 要 很 大 的 一 個 我 就 是 要 請 你 想 辦 法\n\n07:06.764 --> 07:24.098\n我 沒 有 像 剛 剛 說 要 兩 兆 啊 我 只 是 要 其 他 的 院 轄 市 的 部 分 一 樣 而 已 啊 是 所 以 這 個 部 分 也 是 我 們 要 努 力 的 那 我 們 也 一 直 也 在 跟 財 政 部 來 溝 通 就 是 說 他 在 稅 率 方 面 似 乎 也 應 該 要 有 所 提 升 不 然 在 這 方 面 是 因 為\n\n07:24.398 --> 07:53.024\n我 就 再 就 教 你 一 個 問 題 好 了 因 為 本 席 台 南 你 也 是 從 台 南 出 生 嘛 台 南 的 部 分 呢 基 本 上 這 個 內 部 還 有 城 鄉 差 距 的 問 題 農 村 人 口 外 移 以 空 污 率 來 計 算 的 話 越 偏 鄉 是 越 嚴 重 但 是 這 個 問 題 呢 在 農 業 部 的 部 分 呢 他 需 要 透 過 農 債 基 金 可 是 農 債 基 金 到 今 年 二 月 為 止 剩 下 不 到 五 百 億 他 原 來 是 一 千 五 百 億 啊 要 推 動 第 四 期 的 計 畫 過 去 農 業 部 的 部 分 呢 有 農 民 的 福 利 農 業 的 這 個 政 策 的 調 整\n\n07:54.304 --> 08:13.653\n差 別 現 在 農 村 的 一 個 重 造 農 村 的 重 造 農 災 基 金 就 非 常 的 關 鍵 現 在 到 農 村 的 這 個 重 化 農 村 如 果 沒 有 重 化 的 話 那 人 口 一 定 會 勢 必 再 流 失 也 就 這 個 部 分 呢 能 不 能 請 主 計 長 把 這 個 資 金 的 這 個 規 模 一 來 把 它 先 填 補 二 來 把 它 提 高 的 可 能 性 有 沒 有 可 能\n\n08:15.576 --> 08:25.289\n融 債 基 金 的 部 分 本 來 就 是 說 一 般 我 們 是 坦 白 說 我 們 沒 有 閒 錢 去 放 在 那 裡 但 是 如 果 他 現 在 能 夠 支 應 將 來 我 們 是 他 實 際 的 一 個 財 務 狀 況 來 去 做 撥 補\n\n08:30.576 --> 08:55.016\n現 在 不 足 啊 你 要 適 持 財 務 這 個 狀 況 差 不 多 需 要 撥 補 啊 現 在 好 幾 年 度 啊 你 不 要 怕 財 新 運 用 的 問 題 嘛 但 是 他 當 初 是 維 持 1 5 0 0 億 嘛 但 是 如 果 現 在 他 還 有 將 近 5 0 0 億 啦 所 以 如 果 說 將 來 實 質 上 不 足 的 部 分 總 不 能 等 到 見 底 吧 主 席 長 你 知 道 嗎 那 一 般 的 水 位 很 重 要 維 持 不 然 我 們 勞 保 財 務 基 金 為 什 麼 一 直 要 維 持 9 0 0 億 的 原 因 在 哪 裡\n\n08:55.777 --> 08:56.518\n政 府 對 農 村 的 重 視 嗎 ?\n\n09:15.361 --> 09:39.832\n整 個 農 委 會 提 升 為 農 業 部 之 後 我 去 換 算 整 個 預 算 結 構 5 2 % 加 2 9 % 加 一 般 的 支 出 跟 一 個 義 務 型 的 支 出 加 起 來 就 超 過 八 成 他 真 的 能 夠 用 在 新 興 計 畫 大 概 不 到 兩 成 升 格 為 一 千 五 百 多 億 到 一 千 六 百 多 億 其 實 微 乎 其 微 講 白 一 點 關 鍵 還 是 在 預 算 所 以 如 何 要 改 造 我 是 覺 得 這 個 部 分 很 重 要\n\n09:40.532 --> 09:57.286\n那 最 後 一 個 部 分 剛 剛 有 幾 位 委 員 有 提 到 確 實 我 們 經 濟 成 長 率 第 一 季 的 時 候 超 乎 預 期 原 來 是 3 . 4 3 現 在 變 6 . 5 1 這 是 好 現 象 但 是 您 的 報 告 書 當 中 我 也 特 別 看 到 你 有 提 到 說 那 個 總 薪 資 率 有 提 升 但 是 一 般 我 們 在 看 的 都 是 看 實 質\n\n09:58.467 --> 10:02.431\n經 常 性 薪 資 其 實 經 常 性 薪 資 是 減 少 的 也 就 是 說 我 們 看 到 的 經 濟 成 長 就 一 直 攀 升 我 們 看 到 物 價 一 直 高 最 近 C P I 雖 然 有 D O W N 下 來 可 是 對 壽 星 階 級 來 說 老 實 講 內 心 的 壓 力 非 常 的 沉 痛 為 什 麼 整 體 經 濟 成 長 的 時 候 我 們 沒 有 被 分 享 到 有 相 關 的 數 字 以 後 有 機 會 我 會 給 你 但 是 我 只 是 做 一 個 最 後 一 個 建 議\n\n10:21.211 --> 10:49.030\n審 計 部 這 個 部 分 我 有 要 求 他 7 月 的 時 候 提 出 一 個 專 題 低 薪 改 變 的 一 個 專 案 報 告 你 有 沒 有 可 能 針 對 這 個 問 題 來 提 出 一 個 報 告 出 來 因 為 其 實 齁 我 們 不 看 經 常 信 心 值 因 為 一 般 公 司 如 果 有 賺 錢 他 在 紅 利 啊 在 那 個 不 是 看 這 個 問 題 我 是 不 是 說 整 體 低 薪 的 報 告 我 不 要 跟 你 辯 論 這 個 啦 我 應 該 跟 你 辯 論 統 計 數 字 哪 一 個 比 較 重 要 重 點 是 你 有 沒 有 提 出 一 個 報 告 站 在 一 個 主 計 處 的 一 個 高 位 當 中 相 關 的 預 算 的 配 置 在 你 身 上 你 有 沒 有 可 能 提 出 一 個 報 告 來 看 到 這 個 問 題 啦\n\n10:50.230 --> 10:51.131\n主 計 長 會 後 再 跟 國 委 員 報 告 了 下 一 位 顏 寬 恆 委 員\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.441,"end":30.907,"text":"主計長你好很開心在這邊遇見你我們算是老朋友了那我有幾個問題想要就教於您我想你現在擔任的這個主計長的角色當中非常的關鍵也就是說你要掌握住明年的預算而明年的預算如何落實賴總統的這個政見在預算編列當中就要有所考量"},{"start":31.767,"end":55.857,"text":"有些政見內容是屬於蔡英文總統政策的延續性像長照3.0或者社會住宅2.0還有一些屬於世代總統的一個新興的政見也要有新興的計畫來進行那各部會的部分你是不是已經有所掌握那明年的這些相關的政見的落實的可能性你內心有沒有譜了"},{"start":58.55,"end":58.57,"text":"市長"},{"start":67.642,"end":67.822,"text":"藍總統政見落實"},{"start":98.142,"end":105.705,"text":"這部分對於一代總統的一個政見的部分那各部會都已經有提出各項的一個方案那這個方案的部分那我們初估我們在4月底我們也分給各部會有相關的一個金額額度然後請他們優先在這個額度裡面去做調整之意"},{"start":128.694,"end":141.731,"text":"拜總統政見需求的預算已經有請他們調整資印該調整的該資印的資印那錢的空間有沒有比稍微要增加多少特別是哪個部分能不能透露一下"},{"start":143.011,"end":162.52,"text":"需要花比較多錢的部分因為資源的分配必須有優先順序當然六大的政見裡面大部分都很重要但是問題還是有優先順序所以現在原則上大部分出估的金額是照去年的額度"},{"start":163.74,"end":192.641,"text":"公共建設計畫的部分原則上依照去年的額度先河給他但是公共建設計畫很多的一個計畫是今年到了付款的高峰期那付款的高峰期那你很多就必須要支付所以你這個部分公共建設計畫到底他支付的部分我們必須要去細算所以我現在我也沒辦法告訴你說大概他會提高多少但是我們要必須就是說針對各項必須支付的要優先之應的來排列優先順序"},{"start":192.981,"end":216.725,"text":"你現在討論的你講的都是原則你都沒有透露任何內容我就問你說你知道透露內容都不行不是因為原則上內容就是跟各位就政見上你認為就優先順序待總統優先順序當中最重要是哪一個嗎但是現在基本額度給他的就是以去年的額度為主還是去年的額度為基準來做調整可是那新的政見落實要怎麼辦呢"},{"start":217.045,"end":217.346,"text":"你現在講都是原則啦"},{"start":233.229,"end":262.152,"text":"但是我剛剛覺得吳秉樂委員提醒的那一點真的非常重要如果財法法現在如果通過的話我剛剛聽到你的講法是說你現在呢有可能就是在計劃型補助跟一般性的補助來做一個調整嘛因為計劃型跟一般性的補助的話從112年度的話大概8682億啦在今年的話應該會超過9000億這兩年我評估起來地方政府大概短差大概500億啦我是認為地方政府的部分短差500億以上你要優先解決啦優先解決這是真的要思考不然的話他們不是舉債不然就賣土地啊"},{"start":263.292,"end":288.36,"text":"這對社會問題都造成一些負面的影響這個部分我建議是這樣子如果說在野黨要求這個的話他們要解決地方問題的話應該先把這個問題先處理好但是第二個部分如果他們過度調高的話你現在手頭上可以做調整的是一般性的補助有2121億各部分不然2300億但手頭上大概你用計劃型跟一般型大概4500億也就是說如果他拿到太多的統籌分配卡你就會用4500億來做彈性的處理對不對你還是有辦法嘛"},{"start":292.182,"end":315.171,"text":"因為一般性補助呢就是去調劑縣市的營需嘛那當然因為有一些縣市它實在是稅數稅數差的很大你又限原則要去填補那第二個呢計劃型補助的部分因為計劃型每個計劃它補助的比例不一定反正你就是有招就是了它如果統籌會不會給你拿比較多你一般的跟計劃型的你就要給它少一點嘛對不對"},{"start":316.051,"end":338.026,"text":"中央政府怎麼運作你來總統的政見如何落實他用另外一種方式來跟你杯葛把你整個預算稍微幫你處理掉那你怎麼玩弄不下去嘛對不對所以你還是得因應這個問題嘛那第二個部分呢我是認為不是中央跟地方因為中央的橫向的部分還是有負跟平啦現實真的貧富差距還是非常的大我倒是覺得台灣現在的預算"},{"start":339.827,"end":339.987,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":364.902,"end":393.149,"text":"如果說現階段的話南北平衡有問題現在嚴格來說北高平衡相對沒有問題反而是北南南北出現很大問題這一點我要請主計長你要特別注意一下這個部份的這個交通預算的部份要去怎麼配置的部份應該跟相關的單位弄清楚前端計畫接下來五期沒有的時候後面的公共預算怎麼編這些呢後來呢玩到的後來呢沒有辦法"},{"start":394.192,"end":397.088,"text":"沒有辦法取得前瞻計畫了,你要怎麼處理?主席長"},{"start":399.19,"end":425.924,"text":"像一般前瞻計畫因為到後面只剩下703億再來就沒有那個但是如果說等於本來放在前瞻計畫的部分將來勢必要回歸啦回歸到一般的預算公務預算上面去那所以是不是能夠容納這麼大一個那個額度的一個深這個我們就必須要資源的分配的部分就要很大的一個我就是要請你想辦法"},{"start":426.764,"end":444.098,"text":"我沒有像剛剛說要兩兆啊我只是要其他的院轄市的部分一樣而已啊是 所以這個部分也是我們要努力的那我們也一直也在跟財政部來溝通就是說他在稅率方面似乎也應該要有所提升不然在這方面是因為"},{"start":444.398,"end":473.024,"text":"我就再就教你一個問題好了因為本席台南你也是從台南出生嘛台南的部分呢基本上這個內部還有城鄉差距的問題農村人口外移以空污率來計算的話越偏鄉是越嚴重但是這個問題呢在農業部的部分呢他需要透過農債基金可是農債基金到今年二月為止剩下不到五百億他原來是一千五百億啊要推動第四期的計畫過去農業部的部分呢有農民的福利農業的這個政策的調整"},{"start":474.304,"end":493.653,"text":"差別現在農村的一個重造農村的重造農災基金就非常的關鍵現在到農村的這個重化農村如果沒有重化的話那人口一定會勢必再流失也就這個部分呢能不能請主計長把這個資金的這個規模一來把它先填補二來把它提高的可能性有沒有可能"},{"start":495.576,"end":505.289,"text":"融債基金的部分本來就是說一般我們是坦白說我們沒有閒錢去放在那裡但是如果他現在能夠支應將來我們是他實際的一個財務狀況來去做撥補"},{"start":510.576,"end":535.016,"text":"現在不足啊 你要適持財務這個狀況差不多需要撥補啊 現在好幾年度啊你不要怕財新運用的問題嘛但是他當初是維持1500億嘛 但是如果現在他還有將近500億啦所以如果說將來實質上不足的部分總不能等到見底吧 主席長你知道嗎 那一般的水位很重要維持 不然我們勞保財務基金為什麼一直要維持900億的原因在哪裡"},{"start":535.777,"end":536.518,"text":"政府對農村的重視嗎?"},{"start":555.361,"end":579.832,"text":"整個農委會提升為農業部之後我去換算整個預算結構52%加29%加一般的支出跟一個義務型的支出加起來就超過八成他真的能夠用在新興計畫大概不到兩成升格為一千五百多億到一千六百多億其實微乎其微講白一點關鍵還是在預算所以如何要改造我是覺得這個部分很重要"},{"start":580.532,"end":597.286,"text":"那最後一個部分剛剛有幾位委員有提到確實我們經濟成長率第一季的時候超乎預期原來是3.43現在變6.51這是好現象但是您的報告書當中我也特別看到你有提到說那個總薪資率有提升但是一般我們在看的都是看實質"},{"start":598.467,"end":602.431,"text":"經常性薪資其實經常性薪資是減少的也就是說我們看到的經濟成長就一直攀升我們看到物價一直高最近CPI雖然有DOWN下來可是對壽星階級來說老實講內心的壓力非常的沉痛為什麼整體經濟成長的時候我們沒有被分享到有相關的數字以後有機會我會給你但是我只是做一個最後一個建議"},{"start":621.211,"end":649.03,"text":"審計部這個部分我有要求他7月的時候提出一個專題低薪改變的一個專案報告你有沒有可能針對這個問題來提出一個報告出來因為其實齁我們不看經常信心值因為一般公司如果有賺錢他在紅利啊在那個不是看這個問題我是不是說整體低薪的報告我不要跟你辯論這個啦我應該跟你辯論統計數字哪一個比較重要重點是你有沒有提出一個報告站在一個主計處的一個高位當中相關的預算的配置在你身上你有沒有可能提出一個報告來看到這個問題啦"},{"start":650.23,"end":651.131,"text":"主計長會後再跟國委員報告了下一位顏寬恆委員"}]}}}}