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10:44:27","影片長度":"00:09:04","會議時間":"2024-05-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院公共工程委員會主任委員陳金德列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【5月27日及29日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-29","duration":544,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-14"},"end_time":"2024-05-29T10:44:27+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-29T10:35:23+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":273,"blocks":[["許委員智傑：（10時35分）謝謝主席，請主委。"],["主席：請陳主委。"],["陳主任委員金德：委員早。"],["許委員智傑：主委好。老朋友見面，但於私是老朋友，於公還是要要求。跟主委報告我們之前一直在做的事，我想是我一直追蹤、滿重要的事，所以要讓主委知道一下。近年來推動最有利標這個方向，目的是不要用低價搶標破壞品質。關於最有利標，我想每個人穿衣服、買房子都是用自己的最有利標嘛！所以對工程來講，應該也是用最有利標最好。我之前一直要求工程會，在做最有利標的時候，如果真的有一些爭議、有一些疑慮或有一些擔心，就麻煩政風跟主計他們辛苦一點，跟工程會一起來。一來很清楚，敢請政風、主計來，就代表心裡沒有問題。二來，如果真的沒有問題，政風跟主計來也是保護你們的一種好的方式，所以這幾年來，在工程會處理公部門招標時，政風跟主計加入的比例其實都在逐漸增加。當然穩定了之後，就算減少一點點也無所謂啦！但我的意思就是政風跟主計不是我們的敵人，而是保護我們的，所以這部分希望工程會繼續推。","主委，我這個數據你可以參考，這幾年來，決標件數其實都在增加當中，去年有點減少，是因為最低從本來的12萬變成15萬，所以在數量上少了一點，但事實上也是增加的。我們再看比例，也是每一年、歷年都在增加當中。也就是說，推動國家重大政策最有利標加入政風跟主計的協助之後，的確可以讓公共工程的品質更好，所以這部分讓主委了解一下，我是希望特別給你提醒。從以前吳宏謀主委的時候，我就在推；到後來的吳澤成主委也是。而我是覺得這幾年看起來有成效出來，所以我會繼續再追蹤，希望就這項政策讓您有個了解。也希望工程會同仁對於這個好的政策能夠繼續推動下去，不用怕政風跟主計啦！政風跟主計是我們的好朋友，可以幫我們很多忙。","第二件事情，在缺工方面，之前我們一直講其實臺灣有很多年輕人體力、能力都夠，但可能不太喜歡做粗工，因為沒辦法穿那麼漂亮，所以比較不願意去做。比如說在工地釘板模或綁鐵一天可能有2,000至3,000元，一個月可以賺7萬至9萬，若去餐廳做服務業可能賺兩萬多，但現在的年輕人寧願去賺兩萬多，叫他去工地則不願意。有件事不知道現在怎麼樣，主委可以關心一下現在你們內部有沒有做這樣的規劃，因為之前我要求過，就是工程會每年都有金質獎頒獎，也有一些項目上的改變，如果有更好的點子，也可以再加入評審項目。所以我之前在前主委時代就要求，是不是可能為了鼓勵基礎營造工人、增加他的榮譽感，也對他頒獎？比如說釘板模釘得很好的，找一個符合職人精神者頒獎，取名「最佳男模」；假設是很會綁鐵者、在這個領域很突出，就頒獎「最佳男鐵」。如果對於這些基礎工作，不管是釘板模、綁鐵、油漆等各種基礎工作，都這樣鼓勵年輕人投入，讓他們學到一技之長、學到職人精神，讓他們有榮譽感，其實有可能將缺工問題解決一些。針對這部分，不知道有沒有人可以簡單報告目前工程會進度到哪裡？"],["陳主任委員金德：謝謝委員指教，工班職人獎納入工程金質獎的部分已經在實施了。我們也會針對整個金質獎的頒授作整體考量與修正，除了工班職人獎之外，整個施工過程的職安也都會納入考量，這方面已經在做了。"],["許委員智傑：OK，這部分我是特地跟主委報告，就是希望能夠規劃得更好，職人精神對於基礎工作的缺工問題其實多少可以作一些改善。","第三個，昨天我聽到國民黨對於工程國家隊很有意見。對於工程會目前協助作工程國家隊的狀況，主委不知道有沒有了解？就是關於各個領域工程國家隊，國家所做的方向如何？"],["陳主任委員金德：這部分跟委員報告，如果到外國承攬其他國家的工程，也就是組國家隊去承攬，因為外國的標的金額事實上都非常龐大，所以目前組國家隊承攬的成果還是不多。不過工程會已經在努力，包括在各地駐點、尋求商機或其他資訊，提供給國內相關廠商……"],["許委員智傑：主委，時間不多，我再跟主委強調一下我會繼續追蹤的項目，除了前面兩項之外，這一項我也會繼續追蹤。","你可以看到以前的計畫，今年度核定9件拓點計畫，補助大概一千多萬，其實算是很少啦！但我看在野黨批評所有國家隊的角度都是覺得你們在圖利，其實用那個角度看非常不好，對於國家隊的推動其實是不利的。","我舉這個例子讓主委參考，我在教委會當時曾經建議文化部可以成立文策院，它是投資性質，不只是補助性質。比如說文化部準備兩百億補助電影、電視節目等安排，但補助之後，無論選到好的或選到壞的，錢都一直補助出去，無論選到好的或選到壞的，最後公務員都不用負責任，因為他們就是負責補助嘛！雖然是評審制，但評審制又沒有方向……也不是說沒有方向，而是沒有所謂的評審標準。加上錢已經補出去，後來就愈補愈少。後來我給他們一個概念參考，就是用投資的概念，不只是補助的概念。錢補助出去之後，要是覺得這部電影、這齣電視劇以後有可能賺錢，那該補助多少就補，其他就看怎麼分配，這筆兩百億基金搞不好在補了5年之後變成300億也不一定，可以補助更多、幫助更多人拍電影，用這個概念……也就是國家隊也可以用這樣的概念。我是先這樣提出來，請主委與部會底下的人再做一下研商。我這個想法不只是補助，補助還會被質疑圖利，但沒有圖利啊！而是發展經濟、照顧弱勢。對於弱勢予以補助，至於強勢者，就是朝這個方向，以投資為概念。主委認為這樣的方向是不是OK？如果主委覺得可以，那會內是不是可以作規劃，兩個禮拜內給我一份報告，簡單說明你們想法如何？"],["陳主任委員金德：好，我們整理好之後再提供給委員。"],["許委員智傑：好，針對這個概念，希望主委與工程會可以思考。"],["陳主任委員金德：好。"],["許委員智傑：謝謝。"],["主席：許委員發言完畢。","現在休息10分鐘。","休息（10時44分）","繼續開會（10時55分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":306,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-14","speakers":["李昆澤","林沛祥","林俊憲","陳素月","林國成","徐富癸","魯明哲","蔡其昌","何欣純","許智傑","邱若華","游顥","李柏毅","黃國昌","洪孟楷","陳雪生","黃健豪","王美惠","廖先翔"],"page_start":267,"meetingDate":["2024-05-29"],"gazette_id":"1135301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135301_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請行政院公共工程委員會主任委員陳金德列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1135301_00006"}},"transcript":{"id":"153217","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153217","tool":"pyannote","id":"153217-pyannote"},"job_id":"D9pfFe7Ln9GgHRvC","queued_at":"2024-05-30 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所以這個部分如果工程會繼續來推你可以看到主委我這個數據你可以參考這是這幾年來喔決票的件數其實都在增加當中今年有一點去年有一點減少是因為最低本來是10萬10萬變成15萬所以這個在數量上有少一點事實上也是增加的那我們看他的比例也一直在每一年歷年都在增加當中\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 110.45, \"end\": 110.63, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 110.63, \"end\": 110.75, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 110.75, \"end\": 111.13, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 111.13, \"end\": 111.251, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 111.251, \"end\": 111.391, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 111.391, \"end\": 111.491, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 111.491, \"end\": 111.651, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 111.651, \"end\": 111.811, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 111.811, \"end\": 112.731, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"繼\"}, {\"word\": \"續\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"推\", \"start\": 112.731, \"end\": 113.592, \"score\": 0.997}, 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跟 主 計 來 也 是 保 護 你 的 一 個 好 的 方 式\n\n4\n00:01:26,773 --> 00:01:49,149\n所 以 最 近 這 幾 年 來 我 們 工 程 會 在 工 部 門 的 招 標 正 風 跟 阻 劑 加 入 的 比 例 其 實 都 有 逐 漸 在 增 加 那 當 然 穩 定 了 之 後 如 果 會 減 少 一 點 點 也 無 所 謂 啦 那 我 的 意 思 就 是 說 正 風 跟 阻 劑 他 不 是 我 們 的 敵 人 他 是 保 護 我 們 的\n\n5\n00:01:50,450 --> 00:02:14,525\n好 所 以 這 個 部 分 如 果 工 程 會 繼 續 來 推 你 可 以 看 到 主 委 我 這 個 數 據 你 可 以 參 考 這 是 這 幾 年 來 喔 決 票 的 件 數 其 實 都 在 增 加 當 中 今 年 有 一 點 去 年 有 一 點 減 少 是 因 為 最 低 本 來 是 1 0 萬 1 0 萬 變 成 1 5 萬 所 以 這 個 在 數 量 上 有 少 一 點 事 實 上 也 是 增 加 的 那 我 們 看 他 的 比 例 也 一 直 在 每 一 年 歷 年 都 在 增 加 當 中\n\n6\n00:02:15,505 --> 00:02:25,565\n所 以 也 就 是 說 我 們 推 動 國 家 這 個 重 大 的 政 策 做 有 力 標 那 加 入 政 府 跟 主 席 的 協 助 我 們 的 確 讓 公 共 工 程 的 品 質 可 以 更 好\n\n7\n00:02:26,810 --> 00:02:51,489\n所 以 這 個 部 分 讓 主 委 瞭 解 一 下 我 是 希 望 說 特 別 跟 您 提 醒 這 個 從 以 前 吳 宏 謀 主 委 的 時 候 我 就 在 推 到 後 來 的 吳 哲 成 主 委 那 我 是 覺 得 這 幾 年 來 看 起 來 有 成 效 出 來 所 以 我 會 繼 續 在 追 蹤 也 希 望 說 主 委 這 個 政 策 讓 您 有 個 瞭 解 那 也 希 望 說 我 們 工 程 會 的 同 仁 這 個 好 的 政 策 能 夠 繼 續 推 動 下 去\n\n8\n00:02:52,590 --> 00:03:16,833\n不 用 怕 鄭 豐 跟 祖 記 啦 鄭 豐 祖 記 是 我 們 的 好 朋 友 他 可 以 幫 我 們 很 多 忙 好 那 第 二 件 事 情 就 是 之 前 在 缺 工 的 方 面 我 們 一 直 在 講 說 那 個 我 們 其 實 台 灣 有 很 多 年 輕 人 體 力 能 力 都 夠 但 是 他 可 能 不 太 喜 歡 去 當\n\n9\n00:03:18,510 --> 00:03:31,039\n做 這 個 比 較 粗 工 , 沒 有 辦 法 這 時 穿 得 漂 亮 所 以 他 們 有 答 應 說 比 較 不 要 去 做 比 如 說 你 在 工 地 做 那 個 幫 忙 或 是 拔 鐵 的 有 可 能 一 工 差 不 多 兩 千 至 三 千 一 工 可 以 賺 七 萬 至 九 萬 但 是 他 們 去 餐 廳 做 服 務 業 有 可 能 賺 兩 萬 多\n\n10\n00:03:47,642 --> 00:04:03,604\n但 現 在 年 輕 人 去 感 恩 去 賺 兩 萬 塊 他 可 能 要 去 做 這 個 他 不 想 做 所 以 在 之 前 我 不 知 道 現 在 主 委 可 以 關 心 一 下 你 們 內 部 有 沒 有 做 這 樣 子 的 規 劃 因 為 在 之 前 我 也 要 求 過 就 是 說 我 們 工 程 會 每 年 都 有 金 職 獎 的 頒 獎\n\n11\n00:04:05,326 --> 00:04:31,520\n有 一 些 項 目 的 改 變 有 更 好 的 點 子 我 們 可 以 加 入 評 審 的 項 目 所 以 我 之 前 在 前 主 委 的 時 代 我 也 跟 他 們 要 求 說 是 不 是 有 可 能 我 們 來 鼓 勵 讓 他 做 這 個 基 礎 工 業 基 礎 的 營 造 工 人 事 實 上 讓 他 增 加 他 的 榮 譽 感 我 們 來 給 他 頒 獎 比 如 說 他 做 了 定 幫 模 定 了 很 好 我 們 找 一 個 職 人 精 神 的 對 不 對 我 們 來 給 他 頒 獎 叫 做 最 佳 藍 模\n\n12\n00:04:35,377 --> 00:04:38,145\n阿 比 說 他 白 天 還 在 外 面 打 電 話 在 這 個 領 域 很 突 出 我 們 就 給 他 頒 獎 叫 最 佳 藍 鐵\n\n13\n00:04:43,958 --> 00:05:11,896\n這 樣 其 實 給 這 個 基 礎 的 無 關 是 正 宗 沒 的 白 天 的 午 餐 的 還 有 這 種 基 礎 的 考 慮 我 們 鼓 勵 年 輕 人 出 來 讓 他 們 有 一 致 之 常 讓 他 們 有 職 人 精 神 讓 他 們 有 一 個 容 易 感 這 樣 其 實 有 可 能 在 我 們 缺 工 的 問 題 可 以 幫 我 們 解 決 一 些 那 這 個 部 分 我 不 知 道 我 們 有 沒 有 人 可 以 簡 單 的 報 告 目 前 工 程 會 進 度 到 哪 裡\n\n14\n00:05:13,451 --> 00:05:40,711\n謝 謝 委 員 指 教 關 於 工 班 職 人 獎 納 入 這 個 工 程 金 職 獎 的 部 分 已 經 在 實 施 了 會 整 個 會 我 們 把 整 個 金 職 獎 的 頒 授 會 整 體 的 再 來 考 量 來 修 正 除 了 這 個 工 班 職 人 獎 之 外 包 括 整 個 職 安 在 施 工 過 程 的 職 安 也 都 會 納 入 考 量 這 個 是 已 經 在\n\n15\n00:05:41,291 --> 00:06:07,782\n我 是 特 地 跟 主 委 報 告 希 望 能 夠 再 把 它 規 劃 得 更 好 把 這 個 職 人 精 神 把 我 們 基 礎 的 缺 工 的 問 題 其 實 可 以 多 少 做 一 些 改 善 那 第 三 個 呢 其 實 昨 天 我 在 聽 國 民 黨 在 提 到 他 們 對 那 個 工 程 國 家 都 很 有 意 見 那 現 在 我 們 工 程 會 來 協 助 做 工 程 國 家 會 目 前 的 狀 況 主 委 不 知 道 有 沒 有 了 解\n\n16\n00:06:09,469 --> 00:06:24,657\n這 是 各 個 領 域 的 工 程 國 家 對 那 國 家 做 的 方 向 是 如 何 ? 這 一 部 分 給 委 員 報 告 因 為 如 果 說 到 外 國 去 承 攬 其 他 國 家 的 工 程 就 組 國 家 隊 去 承 攬\n\n17\n00:06:27,944 --> 00:06:41,658\n韓 國 的 標 的 事 實 上 都 是 非 常 金 額 非 常 龐 大 所 以 目 前 我 們 說 能 夠 組 國 家 隊 去 承 攬 的 成 果 事 實 上 還 是 不 多 不 過 這 個 工 程 會\n\n18\n00:06:42,819 --> 00:07:08,473\n已 經 有 在 努 力 包 括 在 各 地 駐 點 然 後 尋 求 商 機 或 其 他 的 這 個 資 訊 提 供 給 國 內 的 相 關 的 產 商 主 委 這 個 時 間 不 多 我 再 跟 主 委 強 調 一 下 我 會 繼 續 追 蹤 的 項 目 前 面 兩 項 之 後 這 一 項 我 會 繼 續 追 蹤 那 你 可 以 看 到 我 們 以 前 的 計 畫 就 是 說 今 年 度 合 訂 九 件 拓 展 計 畫 補 助 大 概 一 千 多 萬 其 實 算 是 很 少\n\n19\n00:07:09,574 --> 00:07:29,672\n那 當 然 就 是 說 我 看 那 個 在 野 黨 他 們 在 批 評 我 們 所 有 的 國 家 隊 的 角 度 都 覺 得 說 你 是 圖 利 用 那 個 角 度 其 實 看 是 非 常 的 不 好 那 對 我 們 國 家 隊 的 推 動 其 實 是 不 利 的 那 我 舉 這 個 例 子 讓 主 委 參 考 就 是 說 在 文 化 部 當 時 我 在 教 委 會 的 時 候 有 建 議 文 化 部 可 以 成 立 一 個 文 策 院\n\n20\n00:07:30,907 --> 00:07:37,002\n他 是 一 個 投 資 性 質 不 只 是 補 助 性 質 比 如 說 我 文 化 部 我 準 備 兩 百 月 去 補 助 電 子 電 視 再 補 充 電 的 安 排\n\n21\n00:07:39,784 --> 00:08:04,895\n我 報 到 之 後 呢 我 去 選 好 壞 選 選 選 的 呢 因 為 啊 就 錢 一 直 報 出 來 啊 你 就 報 到 好 報 到 壞 啊 到 買 的 都 不 用 公 務 員 都 不 用 付 錢 因 為 他 就 是 報 嘛 啊 這 叫 精 神 評 審 制 嘛 啊 評 審 制 又 沒 有 一 個 方 向 不 是 說 沒 有 一 個 方 向 他 們 所 謂 的 評 審 的 標 準 嘛 但 是 補 出 去 他 就 一 直 越 補 越 少 後 來 我 給 他 們 一 個 概 念 參 考 就 是 說 你 用 投 資 的 概 念 不 只 是 補 助 的 概 念\n\n22\n00:08:06,253 --> 00:08:23,199\n我 這 報 出 來 之 後 我 感 覺 說 這 齣 電 視 它 有 可 能 會 賺 錢 我 報 多 少 給 你 報 其 他 要 看 要 怎 麼 分 配 至 少 我 這 個 基 金 2 0 0 億 基 金 我 搞 不 好 補 了 5 年 之 後 變 成 3 0 0 億 也 不 一 定 我 可 以 補 助 更 多 幫 助 更 多 的 這 個 要 拍 電 影\n\n23\n00:08:24,437 --> 00:08:36,532\n那 用 這 個 概 念 說 如 果 我 們 的 國 家 隊 也 有 這 個 概 念 我 是 先 這 樣 子 提 出 來 請 主 委 跟 我 們 部 門 部 會 底 下 的 人 再 做 一 下 去 研 商 我 這 不 是 只 有 補 助 而 已 補 助 你 不 會 說 你 質 疑 說 我 圖 利 我 沒 圖 利\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8099\t35871\t謝謝主席 我們請主委 請陳主委委員長 主委好老朋友 記名 那個 漁師是老朋友 漁工還是要要求那個之前齁 那個跟主委報告 之前有我們一直在做的事 我想這個是我一直追蹤蠻重要的事 所以 要讓主委知道一下\n37452\t64690\t那就是近年來我們在推動最有利標這個方向不要用低價搶標去破壞那個品質那最有利標呢我想每個人穿衣服啦買房子啦都是用自己的最有利標嘛所以對我們工程來講應該也是用最有利標最好那之前我一直要求工程會就是最有利標的時候\n66091\t85660\t如果真的有一些爭議或有一些疑慮或有一些擔心就把政風跟主計麻煩他們辛苦一點跟我們一起來那一來呢我們很清楚我們趕緊政風主計來就是心裡沒有問題二來呢如果你真的沒有問題政風跟主計來也是保護你的一個好的方式\n86773\t109149\t所以最近這幾年來我們工程會在工部門的招標正風跟阻劑加入的比例其實都有逐漸在增加那當然穩定了之後如果會減少一點點也無所謂啦那我的意思就是說正風跟阻劑他不是我們的敵人他是保護我們的\n110450\t134525\t好 所以這個部分如果工程會繼續來推你可以看到主委我這個數據你可以參考這是這幾年來喔決票的件數其實都在增加當中今年有一點去年有一點減少是因為最低本來是10萬10萬變成15萬所以這個在數量上有少一點事實上也是增加的那我們看他的比例也一直在每一年歷年都在增加當中\n135505\t145565\t所以也就是說我們推動國家這個重大的政策做有力標那加入政府跟主席的協助我們的確讓公共工程的品質可以更好\n146810\t171489\t所以這個部分讓主委瞭解一下我是希望說特別跟您提醒這個從以前吳宏謀主委的時候我就在推到後來的吳哲成主委那我是覺得這幾年來看起來有成效出來所以我會繼續在追蹤也希望說主委這個政策讓您有個瞭解那也希望說我們工程會的同仁這個好的政策能夠繼續推動下去\n172590\t196833\t不用怕鄭豐跟祖記啦鄭豐祖記是我們的好朋友他可以幫我們很多忙好那第二件事情就是之前在缺工的方面我們一直在講說那個我們其實台灣有很多年輕人體力能力都夠但是他可能不太喜歡去當\n198510\t211039\t做這個比較粗工,沒有辦法這時穿得漂亮所以他們有答應說比較不要去做比如說你在工地做那個幫忙或是拔鐵的有可能一工差不多兩千至三千一工可以賺七萬至九萬但是他們去餐廳做服務業有可能賺兩萬多\n227642\t243604\t但現在年輕人去感恩去賺兩萬塊他可能要去做這個他不想做所以在之前我不知道現在主委可以關心一下你們內部有沒有做這樣子的規劃因為在之前我也要求過就是說我們工程會每年都有金職獎的頒獎\n245326\t271520\t有一些項目的改變有更好的點子我們可以加入評審的項目所以我之前在前主委的時代我也跟他們要求說是不是有可能我們來鼓勵讓他做這個基礎工業基礎的營造工人事實上讓他增加他的榮譽感我們來給他頒獎比如說他做了定幫模定了很好我們找一個職人精神的對不對我們來給他頒獎叫做最佳藍模\n275377\t278145\t阿比說他白天還在外面打電話在這個領域很突出我們就給他頒獎叫最佳藍鐵\n283958\t311896\t這樣 其實 給這個基礎的 無關是正宗沒的 白天的 午餐的 還有這種基礎的考慮我們鼓勵年輕人出來 讓他們有一致之常 讓他們有職人精神 讓他們有一個容易感這樣 其實有可能在我們缺工的問題 可以幫我們解決一些那這個部分 我不知道 我們有沒有人可以簡單的報告目前工程會進度到哪裡\n313451\t340711\t謝謝委員指教關於工班職人獎納入這個工程金職獎的部分已經在實施了會整個會我們把整個金職獎的頒授會整體的再來考量來修正除了這個工班職人獎之外包括整個職安在施工過程的職安也都會納入考量這個是已經在\n341291\t367782\t我是特地跟主委報告希望能夠再把它規劃得更好把這個職人精神把我們基礎的缺工的問題其實可以多少做一些改善那第三個呢其實昨天我在聽國民黨在提到他們對那個工程國家都很有意見那現在我們工程會來協助做工程國家會目前的狀況主委不知道有沒有了解\n369469\t384657\t這是各個領域的工程國家對那國家做的方向是如何?這一部分給委員報告因為如果說到外國去承攬其他國家的工程就組國家隊去承攬\n387944\t401658\t韓國的標的事實上都是非常金額非常龐大所以目前我們說能夠組國家隊去承攬的成果事實上還是不多不過這個工程會\n402819\t428473\t已經有在努力包括在各地駐點然後尋求商機或其他的這個資訊提供給國內的相關的產商主委這個時間不多我再跟主委強調一下我會繼續追蹤的項目前面兩項之後這一項我會繼續追蹤那你可以看到我們以前的計畫就是說今年度合訂九件拓展計畫補助大概一千多萬其實算是很少\n429574\t449672\t那當然就是說我看那個在野黨他們在批評我們所有的國家隊的角度都覺得說你是圖利用那個角度其實看是非常的不好那對我們國家隊的推動其實是不利的那我舉這個例子讓主委參考就是說在文化部當時我在教委會的時候有建議文化部可以成立一個文策院\n450907\t457002\t他是一個投資性質不只是補助性質 比如說我文化部我準備兩百月去補助電子電視 再補充電的安排\n459784\t484895\t我報到之後呢 我去選好壞選選選的呢 因為啊 就錢一直報出來啊 你就報到好報到壞啊 到買的都不用 公務員都不用付錢因為他就是報嘛 啊這叫精神評審制嘛 啊評審制又沒有一個方向不是說沒有一個方向 他們所謂的評審的標準嘛但是補出去他就一直越補越少 後來我給他們一個概念參考就是說 你用投資的概念不只是補助的概念\n486253\t503199\t我這報出來之後 我感覺說這齣電視 它有可能會賺錢 我報多少給你報 其他要看要怎麼分配至少我這個基金200億基金 我搞不好補了5年之後變成300億也不一定 我可以補助更多幫助更多的 這個要拍電影\n504437\t516532\t那用這個概念說如果我們的國家隊也有這個概念我是先這樣子提出來請主委跟我們部門部會底下的人再做一下去研商我這不是只有補助而已補助你不會說你質疑說我圖利我沒圖利\n520077\t545282\t﹚\n","txt":"謝謝主席 我們請主委 請陳主委委員長 主委好老朋友 記名 那個 漁師是老朋友 漁工還是要要求那個之前齁 那個跟主委報告 之前有我們一直在做的事 我想這個是我一直追蹤蠻重要的事 所以 要讓主委知道一下\n那就是近年來我們在推動最有利標這個方向不要用低價搶標去破壞那個品質那最有利標呢我想每個人穿衣服啦買房子啦都是用自己的最有利標嘛所以對我們工程來講應該也是用最有利標最好那之前我一直要求工程會就是最有利標的時候\n如果真的有一些爭議或有一些疑慮或有一些擔心就把政風跟主計麻煩他們辛苦一點跟我們一起來那一來呢我們很清楚我們趕緊政風主計來就是心裡沒有問題二來呢如果你真的沒有問題政風跟主計來也是保護你的一個好的方式\n所以最近這幾年來我們工程會在工部門的招標正風跟阻劑加入的比例其實都有逐漸在增加那當然穩定了之後如果會減少一點點也無所謂啦那我的意思就是說正風跟阻劑他不是我們的敵人他是保護我們的\n好 所以這個部分如果工程會繼續來推你可以看到主委我這個數據你可以參考這是這幾年來喔決票的件數其實都在增加當中今年有一點去年有一點減少是因為最低本來是10萬10萬變成15萬所以這個在數量上有少一點事實上也是增加的那我們看他的比例也一直在每一年歷年都在增加當中\n所以也就是說我們推動國家這個重大的政策做有力標那加入政府跟主席的協助我們的確讓公共工程的品質可以更好\n所以這個部分讓主委瞭解一下我是希望說特別跟您提醒這個從以前吳宏謀主委的時候我就在推到後來的吳哲成主委那我是覺得這幾年來看起來有成效出來所以我會繼續在追蹤也希望說主委這個政策讓您有個瞭解那也希望說我們工程會的同仁這個好的政策能夠繼續推動下去\n不用怕鄭豐跟祖記啦鄭豐祖記是我們的好朋友他可以幫我們很多忙好那第二件事情就是之前在缺工的方面我們一直在講說那個我們其實台灣有很多年輕人體力能力都夠但是他可能不太喜歡去當\n做這個比較粗工,沒有辦法這時穿得漂亮所以他們有答應說比較不要去做比如說你在工地做那個幫忙或是拔鐵的有可能一工差不多兩千至三千一工可以賺七萬至九萬但是他們去餐廳做服務業有可能賺兩萬多\n但現在年輕人去感恩去賺兩萬塊他可能要去做這個他不想做所以在之前我不知道現在主委可以關心一下你們內部有沒有做這樣子的規劃因為在之前我也要求過就是說我們工程會每年都有金職獎的頒獎\n有一些項目的改變有更好的點子我們可以加入評審的項目所以我之前在前主委的時代我也跟他們要求說是不是有可能我們來鼓勵讓他做這個基礎工業基礎的營造工人事實上讓他增加他的榮譽感我們來給他頒獎比如說他做了定幫模定了很好我們找一個職人精神的對不對我們來給他頒獎叫做最佳藍模\n阿比說他白天還在外面打電話在這個領域很突出我們就給他頒獎叫最佳藍鐵\n這樣 其實 給這個基礎的 無關是正宗沒的 白天的 午餐的 還有這種基礎的考慮我們鼓勵年輕人出來 讓他們有一致之常 讓他們有職人精神 讓他們有一個容易感這樣 其實有可能在我們缺工的問題 可以幫我們解決一些那這個部分 我不知道 我們有沒有人可以簡單的報告目前工程會進度到哪裡\n謝謝委員指教關於工班職人獎納入這個工程金職獎的部分已經在實施了會整個會我們把整個金職獎的頒授會整體的再來考量來修正除了這個工班職人獎之外包括整個職安在施工過程的職安也都會納入考量這個是已經在\n我是特地跟主委報告希望能夠再把它規劃得更好把這個職人精神把我們基礎的缺工的問題其實可以多少做一些改善那第三個呢其實昨天我在聽國民黨在提到他們對那個工程國家都很有意見那現在我們工程會來協助做工程國家會目前的狀況主委不知道有沒有了解\n這是各個領域的工程國家對那國家做的方向是如何?這一部分給委員報告因為如果說到外國去承攬其他國家的工程就組國家隊去承攬\n韓國的標的事實上都是非常金額非常龐大所以目前我們說能夠組國家隊去承攬的成果事實上還是不多不過這個工程會\n已經有在努力包括在各地駐點然後尋求商機或其他的這個資訊提供給國內的相關的產商主委這個時間不多我再跟主委強調一下我會繼續追蹤的項目前面兩項之後這一項我會繼續追蹤那你可以看到我們以前的計畫就是說今年度合訂九件拓展計畫補助大概一千多萬其實算是很少\n那當然就是說我看那個在野黨他們在批評我們所有的國家隊的角度都覺得說你是圖利用那個角度其實看是非常的不好那對我們國家隊的推動其實是不利的那我舉這個例子讓主委參考就是說在文化部當時我在教委會的時候有建議文化部可以成立一個文策院\n他是一個投資性質不只是補助性質 比如說我文化部我準備兩百月去補助電子電視 再補充電的安排\n我報到之後呢 我去選好壞選選選的呢 因為啊 就錢一直報出來啊 你就報到好報到壞啊 到買的都不用 公務員都不用付錢因為他就是報嘛 啊這叫精神評審制嘛 啊評審制又沒有一個方向不是說沒有一個方向 他們所謂的評審的標準嘛但是補出去他就一直越補越少 後來我給他們一個概念參考就是說 你用投資的概念不只是補助的概念\n我這報出來之後 我感覺說這齣電視 它有可能會賺錢 我報多少給你報 其他要看要怎麼分配至少我這個基金200億基金 我搞不好補了5年之後變成300億也不一定 我可以補助更多幫助更多的 這個要拍電影\n那用這個概念說如果我們的國家隊也有這個概念我是先這樣子提出來請主委跟我們部門部會底下的人再做一下去研商我這不是只有補助而已補助你不會說你質疑說我圖利我沒圖利\n﹚\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.099 --> 00:35.871\n謝 謝 主 席 我 們 請 主 委 請 陳 主 委 委 員 長 主 委 好 老 朋 友 記 名 那 個 漁 師 是 老 朋 友 漁 工 還 是 要 要 求 那 個 之 前 齁 那 個 跟 主 委 報 告 之 前 有 我 們 一 直 在 做 的 事 我 想 這 個 是 我 一 直 追 蹤 蠻 重 要 的 事 所 以 要 讓 主 委 知 道 一 下\n\n00:37.452 --> 01:04.690\n那 就 是 近 年 來 我 們 在 推 動 最 有 利 標 這 個 方 向 不 要 用 低 價 搶 標 去 破 壞 那 個 品 質 那 最 有 利 標 呢 我 想 每 個 人 穿 衣 服 啦 買 房 子 啦 都 是 用 自 己 的 最 有 利 標 嘛 所 以 對 我 們 工 程 來 講 應 該 也 是 用 最 有 利 標 最 好 那 之 前 我 一 直 要 求 工 程 會 就 是 最 有 利 標 的 時 候\n\n01:06.091 --> 01:25.660\n如 果 真 的 有 一 些 爭 議 或 有 一 些 疑 慮 或 有 一 些 擔 心 就 把 政 風 跟 主 計 麻 煩 他 們 辛 苦 一 點 跟 我 們 一 起 來 那 一 來 呢 我 們 很 清 楚 我 們 趕 緊 政 風 主 計 來 就 是 心 裡 沒 有 問 題 二 來 呢 如 果 你 真 的 沒 有 問 題 政 風 跟 主 計 來 也 是 保 護 你 的 一 個 好 的 方 式\n\n01:26.773 --> 01:49.149\n所 以 最 近 這 幾 年 來 我 們 工 程 會 在 工 部 門 的 招 標 正 風 跟 阻 劑 加 入 的 比 例 其 實 都 有 逐 漸 在 增 加 那 當 然 穩 定 了 之 後 如 果 會 減 少 一 點 點 也 無 所 謂 啦 那 我 的 意 思 就 是 說 正 風 跟 阻 劑 他 不 是 我 們 的 敵 人 他 是 保 護 我 們 的\n\n01:50.450 --> 02:14.525\n好 所 以 這 個 部 分 如 果 工 程 會 繼 續 來 推 你 可 以 看 到 主 委 我 這 個 數 據 你 可 以 參 考 這 是 這 幾 年 來 喔 決 票 的 件 數 其 實 都 在 增 加 當 中 今 年 有 一 點 去 年 有 一 點 減 少 是 因 為 最 低 本 來 是 1 0 萬 1 0 萬 變 成 1 5 萬 所 以 這 個 在 數 量 上 有 少 一 點 事 實 上 也 是 增 加 的 那 我 們 看 他 的 比 例 也 一 直 在 每 一 年 歷 年 都 在 增 加 當 中\n\n02:15.505 --> 02:25.565\n所 以 也 就 是 說 我 們 推 動 國 家 這 個 重 大 的 政 策 做 有 力 標 那 加 入 政 府 跟 主 席 的 協 助 我 們 的 確 讓 公 共 工 程 的 品 質 可 以 更 好\n\n02:26.810 --> 02:51.489\n所 以 這 個 部 分 讓 主 委 瞭 解 一 下 我 是 希 望 說 特 別 跟 您 提 醒 這 個 從 以 前 吳 宏 謀 主 委 的 時 候 我 就 在 推 到 後 來 的 吳 哲 成 主 委 那 我 是 覺 得 這 幾 年 來 看 起 來 有 成 效 出 來 所 以 我 會 繼 續 在 追 蹤 也 希 望 說 主 委 這 個 政 策 讓 您 有 個 瞭 解 那 也 希 望 說 我 們 工 程 會 的 同 仁 這 個 好 的 政 策 能 夠 繼 續 推 動 下 去\n\n02:52.590 --> 03:16.833\n不 用 怕 鄭 豐 跟 祖 記 啦 鄭 豐 祖 記 是 我 們 的 好 朋 友 他 可 以 幫 我 們 很 多 忙 好 那 第 二 件 事 情 就 是 之 前 在 缺 工 的 方 面 我 們 一 直 在 講 說 那 個 我 們 其 實 台 灣 有 很 多 年 輕 人 體 力 能 力 都 夠 但 是 他 可 能 不 太 喜 歡 去 當\n\n03:18.510 --> 03:31.039\n做 這 個 比 較 粗 工 , 沒 有 辦 法 這 時 穿 得 漂 亮 所 以 他 們 有 答 應 說 比 較 不 要 去 做 比 如 說 你 在 工 地 做 那 個 幫 忙 或 是 拔 鐵 的 有 可 能 一 工 差 不 多 兩 千 至 三 千 一 工 可 以 賺 七 萬 至 九 萬 但 是 他 們 去 餐 廳 做 服 務 業 有 可 能 賺 兩 萬 多\n\n03:47.642 --> 04:03.604\n但 現 在 年 輕 人 去 感 恩 去 賺 兩 萬 塊 他 可 能 要 去 做 這 個 他 不 想 做 所 以 在 之 前 我 不 知 道 現 在 主 委 可 以 關 心 一 下 你 們 內 部 有 沒 有 做 這 樣 子 的 規 劃 因 為 在 之 前 我 也 要 求 過 就 是 說 我 們 工 程 會 每 年 都 有 金 職 獎 的 頒 獎\n\n04:05.326 --> 04:31.520\n有 一 些 項 目 的 改 變 有 更 好 的 點 子 我 們 可 以 加 入 評 審 的 項 目 所 以 我 之 前 在 前 主 委 的 時 代 我 也 跟 他 們 要 求 說 是 不 是 有 可 能 我 們 來 鼓 勵 讓 他 做 這 個 基 礎 工 業 基 礎 的 營 造 工 人 事 實 上 讓 他 增 加 他 的 榮 譽 感 我 們 來 給 他 頒 獎 比 如 說 他 做 了 定 幫 模 定 了 很 好 我 們 找 一 個 職 人 精 神 的 對 不 對 我 們 來 給 他 頒 獎 叫 做 最 佳 藍 模\n\n04:35.377 --> 04:38.145\n阿 比 說 他 白 天 還 在 外 面 打 電 話 在 這 個 領 域 很 突 出 我 們 就 給 他 頒 獎 叫 最 佳 藍 鐵\n\n04:43.958 --> 05:11.896\n這 樣 其 實 給 這 個 基 礎 的 無 關 是 正 宗 沒 的 白 天 的 午 餐 的 還 有 這 種 基 礎 的 考 慮 我 們 鼓 勵 年 輕 人 出 來 讓 他 們 有 一 致 之 常 讓 他 們 有 職 人 精 神 讓 他 們 有 一 個 容 易 感 這 樣 其 實 有 可 能 在 我 們 缺 工 的 問 題 可 以 幫 我 們 解 決 一 些 那 這 個 部 分 我 不 知 道 我 們 有 沒 有 人 可 以 簡 單 的 報 告 目 前 工 程 會 進 度 到 哪 裡\n\n05:13.451 --> 05:40.711\n謝 謝 委 員 指 教 關 於 工 班 職 人 獎 納 入 這 個 工 程 金 職 獎 的 部 分 已 經 在 實 施 了 會 整 個 會 我 們 把 整 個 金 職 獎 的 頒 授 會 整 體 的 再 來 考 量 來 修 正 除 了 這 個 工 班 職 人 獎 之 外 包 括 整 個 職 安 在 施 工 過 程 的 職 安 也 都 會 納 入 考 量 這 個 是 已 經 在\n\n05:41.291 --> 06:07.782\n我 是 特 地 跟 主 委 報 告 希 望 能 夠 再 把 它 規 劃 得 更 好 把 這 個 職 人 精 神 把 我 們 基 礎 的 缺 工 的 問 題 其 實 可 以 多 少 做 一 些 改 善 那 第 三 個 呢 其 實 昨 天 我 在 聽 國 民 黨 在 提 到 他 們 對 那 個 工 程 國 家 都 很 有 意 見 那 現 在 我 們 工 程 會 來 協 助 做 工 程 國 家 會 目 前 的 狀 況 主 委 不 知 道 有 沒 有 了 解\n\n06:09.469 --> 06:24.657\n這 是 各 個 領 域 的 工 程 國 家 對 那 國 家 做 的 方 向 是 如 何 ? 這 一 部 分 給 委 員 報 告 因 為 如 果 說 到 外 國 去 承 攬 其 他 國 家 的 工 程 就 組 國 家 隊 去 承 攬\n\n06:27.944 --> 06:41.658\n韓 國 的 標 的 事 實 上 都 是 非 常 金 額 非 常 龐 大 所 以 目 前 我 們 說 能 夠 組 國 家 隊 去 承 攬 的 成 果 事 實 上 還 是 不 多 不 過 這 個 工 程 會\n\n06:42.819 --> 07:08.473\n已 經 有 在 努 力 包 括 在 各 地 駐 點 然 後 尋 求 商 機 或 其 他 的 這 個 資 訊 提 供 給 國 內 的 相 關 的 產 商 主 委 這 個 時 間 不 多 我 再 跟 主 委 強 調 一 下 我 會 繼 續 追 蹤 的 項 目 前 面 兩 項 之 後 這 一 項 我 會 繼 續 追 蹤 那 你 可 以 看 到 我 們 以 前 的 計 畫 就 是 說 今 年 度 合 訂 九 件 拓 展 計 畫 補 助 大 概 一 千 多 萬 其 實 算 是 很 少\n\n07:09.574 --> 07:29.672\n那 當 然 就 是 說 我 看 那 個 在 野 黨 他 們 在 批 評 我 們 所 有 的 國 家 隊 的 角 度 都 覺 得 說 你 是 圖 利 用 那 個 角 度 其 實 看 是 非 常 的 不 好 那 對 我 們 國 家 隊 的 推 動 其 實 是 不 利 的 那 我 舉 這 個 例 子 讓 主 委 參 考 就 是 說 在 文 化 部 當 時 我 在 教 委 會 的 時 候 有 建 議 文 化 部 可 以 成 立 一 個 文 策 院\n\n07:30.907 --> 07:37.002\n他 是 一 個 投 資 性 質 不 只 是 補 助 性 質 比 如 說 我 文 化 部 我 準 備 兩 百 月 去 補 助 電 子 電 視 再 補 充 電 的 安 排\n\n07:39.784 --> 08:04.895\n我 報 到 之 後 呢 我 去 選 好 壞 選 選 選 的 呢 因 為 啊 就 錢 一 直 報 出 來 啊 你 就 報 到 好 報 到 壞 啊 到 買 的 都 不 用 公 務 員 都 不 用 付 錢 因 為 他 就 是 報 嘛 啊 這 叫 精 神 評 審 制 嘛 啊 評 審 制 又 沒 有 一 個 方 向 不 是 說 沒 有 一 個 方 向 他 們 所 謂 的 評 審 的 標 準 嘛 但 是 補 出 去 他 就 一 直 越 補 越 少 後 來 我 給 他 們 一 個 概 念 參 考 就 是 說 你 用 投 資 的 概 念 不 只 是 補 助 的 概 念\n\n08:06.253 --> 08:23.199\n我 這 報 出 來 之 後 我 感 覺 說 這 齣 電 視 它 有 可 能 會 賺 錢 我 報 多 少 給 你 報 其 他 要 看 要 怎 麼 分 配 至 少 我 這 個 基 金 2 0 0 億 基 金 我 搞 不 好 補 了 5 年 之 後 變 成 3 0 0 億 也 不 一 定 我 可 以 補 助 更 多 幫 助 更 多 的 這 個 要 拍 電 影\n\n08:24.437 --> 08:36.532\n那 用 這 個 概 念 說 如 果 我 們 的 國 家 隊 也 有 這 個 概 念 我 是 先 這 樣 子 提 出 來 請 主 委 跟 我 們 部 門 部 會 底 下 的 人 再 做 一 下 去 研 商 我 這 不 是 只 有 補 助 而 已 補 助 你 不 會 說 你 質 疑 說 我 圖 利 我 沒 圖 利\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.099,"end":35.871,"text":"謝謝主席 我們請主委 請陳主委委員長 主委好老朋友 記名 那個 漁師是老朋友 漁工還是要要求那個之前齁 那個跟主委報告 之前有我們一直在做的事 我想這個是我一直追蹤蠻重要的事 所以 要讓主委知道一下"},{"start":37.452,"end":64.69,"text":"那就是近年來我們在推動最有利標這個方向不要用低價搶標去破壞那個品質那最有利標呢我想每個人穿衣服啦買房子啦都是用自己的最有利標嘛所以對我們工程來講應該也是用最有利標最好那之前我一直要求工程會就是最有利標的時候"},{"start":66.091,"end":85.66,"text":"如果真的有一些爭議或有一些疑慮或有一些擔心就把政風跟主計麻煩他們辛苦一點跟我們一起來那一來呢我們很清楚我們趕緊政風主計來就是心裡沒有問題二來呢如果你真的沒有問題政風跟主計來也是保護你的一個好的方式"},{"start":86.773,"end":109.149,"text":"所以最近這幾年來我們工程會在工部門的招標正風跟阻劑加入的比例其實都有逐漸在增加那當然穩定了之後如果會減少一點點也無所謂啦那我的意思就是說正風跟阻劑他不是我們的敵人他是保護我們的"},{"start":110.45,"end":134.525,"text":"好 所以這個部分如果工程會繼續來推你可以看到主委我這個數據你可以參考這是這幾年來喔決票的件數其實都在增加當中今年有一點去年有一點減少是因為最低本來是10萬10萬變成15萬所以這個在數量上有少一點事實上也是增加的那我們看他的比例也一直在每一年歷年都在增加當中"},{"start":135.505,"end":145.565,"text":"所以也就是說我們推動國家這個重大的政策做有力標那加入政府跟主席的協助我們的確讓公共工程的品質可以更好"},{"start":146.81,"end":171.489,"text":"所以這個部分讓主委瞭解一下我是希望說特別跟您提醒這個從以前吳宏謀主委的時候我就在推到後來的吳哲成主委那我是覺得這幾年來看起來有成效出來所以我會繼續在追蹤也希望說主委這個政策讓您有個瞭解那也希望說我們工程會的同仁這個好的政策能夠繼續推動下去"},{"start":172.59,"end":196.833,"text":"不用怕鄭豐跟祖記啦鄭豐祖記是我們的好朋友他可以幫我們很多忙好那第二件事情就是之前在缺工的方面我們一直在講說那個我們其實台灣有很多年輕人體力能力都夠但是他可能不太喜歡去當"},{"start":198.51,"end":211.039,"text":"做這個比較粗工,沒有辦法這時穿得漂亮所以他們有答應說比較不要去做比如說你在工地做那個幫忙或是拔鐵的有可能一工差不多兩千至三千一工可以賺七萬至九萬但是他們去餐廳做服務業有可能賺兩萬多"},{"start":227.642,"end":243.604,"text":"但現在年輕人去感恩去賺兩萬塊他可能要去做這個他不想做所以在之前我不知道現在主委可以關心一下你們內部有沒有做這樣子的規劃因為在之前我也要求過就是說我們工程會每年都有金職獎的頒獎"},{"start":245.326,"end":271.52,"text":"有一些項目的改變有更好的點子我們可以加入評審的項目所以我之前在前主委的時代我也跟他們要求說是不是有可能我們來鼓勵讓他做這個基礎工業基礎的營造工人事實上讓他增加他的榮譽感我們來給他頒獎比如說他做了定幫模定了很好我們找一個職人精神的對不對我們來給他頒獎叫做最佳藍模"},{"start":275.377,"end":278.145,"text":"阿比說他白天還在外面打電話在這個領域很突出我們就給他頒獎叫最佳藍鐵"},{"start":283.958,"end":311.896,"text":"這樣 其實 給這個基礎的 無關是正宗沒的 白天的 午餐的 還有這種基礎的考慮我們鼓勵年輕人出來 讓他們有一致之常 讓他們有職人精神 讓他們有一個容易感這樣 其實有可能在我們缺工的問題 可以幫我們解決一些那這個部分 我不知道 我們有沒有人可以簡單的報告目前工程會進度到哪裡"},{"start":313.451,"end":340.711,"text":"謝謝委員指教關於工班職人獎納入這個工程金職獎的部分已經在實施了會整個會我們把整個金職獎的頒授會整體的再來考量來修正除了這個工班職人獎之外包括整個職安在施工過程的職安也都會納入考量這個是已經在"},{"start":341.291,"end":367.782,"text":"我是特地跟主委報告希望能夠再把它規劃得更好把這個職人精神把我們基礎的缺工的問題其實可以多少做一些改善那第三個呢其實昨天我在聽國民黨在提到他們對那個工程國家都很有意見那現在我們工程會來協助做工程國家會目前的狀況主委不知道有沒有了解"},{"start":369.469,"end":384.657,"text":"這是各個領域的工程國家對那國家做的方向是如何?這一部分給委員報告因為如果說到外國去承攬其他國家的工程就組國家隊去承攬"},{"start":387.944,"end":401.658,"text":"韓國的標的事實上都是非常金額非常龐大所以目前我們說能夠組國家隊去承攬的成果事實上還是不多不過這個工程會"},{"start":402.819,"end":428.473,"text":"已經有在努力包括在各地駐點然後尋求商機或其他的這個資訊提供給國內的相關的產商主委這個時間不多我再跟主委強調一下我會繼續追蹤的項目前面兩項之後這一項我會繼續追蹤那你可以看到我們以前的計畫就是說今年度合訂九件拓展計畫補助大概一千多萬其實算是很少"},{"start":429.574,"end":449.672,"text":"那當然就是說我看那個在野黨他們在批評我們所有的國家隊的角度都覺得說你是圖利用那個角度其實看是非常的不好那對我們國家隊的推動其實是不利的那我舉這個例子讓主委參考就是說在文化部當時我在教委會的時候有建議文化部可以成立一個文策院"},{"start":450.907,"end":457.002,"text":"他是一個投資性質不只是補助性質 比如說我文化部我準備兩百月去補助電子電視 再補充電的安排"},{"start":459.784,"end":484.895,"text":"我報到之後呢 我去選好壞選選選的呢 因為啊 就錢一直報出來啊 你就報到好報到壞啊 到買的都不用 公務員都不用付錢因為他就是報嘛 啊這叫精神評審制嘛 啊評審制又沒有一個方向不是說沒有一個方向 他們所謂的評審的標準嘛但是補出去他就一直越補越少 後來我給他們一個概念參考就是說 你用投資的概念不只是補助的概念"},{"start":486.253,"end":503.199,"text":"我這報出來之後 我感覺說這齣電視 它有可能會賺錢 我報多少給你報 其他要看要怎麼分配至少我這個基金200億基金 我搞不好補了5年之後變成300億也不一定 我可以補助更多幫助更多的 這個要拍電影"},{"start":504.437,"end":516.532,"text":"那用這個概念說如果我們的國家隊也有這個概念我是先這樣子提出來請主委跟我們部門部會底下的人再做一下去研商我這不是只有補助而已補助你不會說你質疑說我圖利我沒圖利"},{"start":520.077,"end":545.282,"text":"﹚"}]}}}}