{"id":153219,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153219","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/2c978e04ca5e1331b5d25a4cc6130b59db3ca66b34e87331333bc5d453e1b19510ab85f957d34f9a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳俊宇","委員發言時間":"10:35:56 - 10:47:19","影片長度":"00:11:23","會議時間":"2024-05-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第27次全體委員會議（事由：邀請司法院秘書長、法務部部長、衛生福利部率所屬相關單位列席就「強化社會安全網─暫行安置與監護處分制度及執行機構場域安全之檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","date":"2024-05-29","duration":683,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第27次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":27,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-27"},"end_time":"2024-05-29T10:47:19+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-29T10:35:56+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":458,"blocks":[["陳委員俊宇：（10時36分）主席，我們請鄭部長。"],["主席：麻煩鄭部長。"],["陳委員俊宇：部長早。"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員好。"],["陳委員俊宇：前兩週發生監護處分人從基隆某醫院脫逃的案例，在整個大臺北地區流竄4天後落網，短短幾天的時間我們看到除了警力全力緝捕，一時間大量的新聞報導情況之下，也在網路上流竄了他的行蹤地點，都讓民眾感到相當的恐慌，幸好最後在沒有發生遺憾的情況之下成功將這個男子緝捕歸案。今天特別感謝吳召委排的這個專報，不但是對於先前脫逃的事件做一個檢討，也能夠對於我們目前暫行安置與監護處分制度的執行狀況來做一個詳加檢討。","我想不論是暫行安置還是監護處分，都是為了兼顧刑事和醫療的需求，也是我們社會安全網重要的一環，但在保障人權的前提之下應該還是要極力避免脫逃的狀況再發生。我想請教部長，我們現在對於暫行安置或是監護處分在執行的過程中，這種防逃的機制應該要如何落實？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我們在規劃的時候再加強安全維護的設施跟人員的訓練，這部分我們也會落實。目前司法精神醫院還沒有建置完成，只有一個司法精神病房。目前這些安置的收治醫療處所，我們會著重在他的整個設備跟安全，譬如說他的門禁管制以及萬一發生這些事件的時候，如何去啟動防逃的機制，上次基隆那個應該是在放風的時候跑掉的。"],["陳委員俊宇：對，放風的時候。"],["鄭部長銘謙：在放風的時候跑掉。所以我們這次趕緊請各地檢署在盤點時檢視醫療處所的安全措施是不是到位，我們也請他們改善，這部分我們也會再重整。"],["陳委員俊宇：好，這也是提醒啦！"],["鄭部長銘謙：謝謝委員。"],["陳委員俊宇：請法務部對於這方面做提升，我剛剛聽應該部長也有想法，我認為應該要落實。"],["鄭部長銘謙：是，謝謝委員。"],["陳委員俊宇：我們從基隆的個案來看，醫院是不是有違反保安處分的相關法規？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這部分目前主要是延遲通報的問題。"],["陳委員俊宇：他應該沒有在時間內通報？"],["鄭部長銘謙：對，他延遲了5小時。"],["陳委員俊宇：好。對於這個收容醫療機構的安全，我想就戒護外醫的部分請教部長，如果今天在這個收容機構的患者因為身體不舒服需要轉診到其他地方看醫生，我們現有的戒護人員已經能夠確保萬無一失嗎？尤其是我要請教您，戒護人員的身分是什麼？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這部分我請黃次長來代為回答。"],["陳委員俊宇：好。"],["黃次長謀信：委員好。關於戒護人員，按照相關規定我們戒護處所是得設戒護人員。現在如果沒有設的話，我們另外也規定可以委由戒護機構去雇用相關的戒護人員來進行戒護。"],["陳委員俊宇：雇用戒護人員？"],["黃次長謀信：對。"],["陳委員俊宇：可是如果以基隆這一件……"],["黃次長謀信：基隆它不是我們保安處分執行處所，它是我們跟醫院簽約的……"],["陳委員俊宇：那也是契約委外的？"],["黃次長謀信：對。"],["陳委員俊宇：所以他在戒護的過程裡，如果不清楚他戒護的病患是什麼樣的人……"],["黃次長謀信：如果說在個案簽約的處所，個別的醫院需要戒護就醫的醫治，通常他會請求執行的地檢署支援法警去做戒護。"],["陳委員俊宇：對，我現在是說安全的問題，因為如果有殺人未遂的，你請一般的保全公司去戒護這也蠻奇怪的。"],["黃次長謀信：所以在個案發生的時候，他常常會請求地檢署的法警戒護就醫。"],["陳委員俊宇：好，次長您先請回。另外，根據精神衛生法第五十二條第一項的規定，在精神照護機構對病患擅自離開機構時，應該要通知家屬及保護人；病患行蹤不明時，應即刻通知地方主管機關的警察機構來協助協尋。但是我們剛剛講的部分，在通報方面似乎是延誤了4個小時才通報，這4個小時就足夠讓這個病患的行蹤難以追查。當時也造成基隆附近的這些縣市，在學校方面都禁止訪客進入了。所以我想請教部長，所謂應即刻通知，應該在多久的時間之內就要通知？這是第一個問題。","第二個問題是，收容機構和當地的警察機關之間通報的管道是否暢通？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個發現的話我們是要求即時通知，馬上就要通報了。"],["陳委員俊宇：即時通知所以沒有時間的限制，那我們目前跟警察機關之間的管道有沒有暢通？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個管道通知的話，我們是第一時間就會通報警方……"],["李簡任技正炳樟：跟委員報告，目前各家醫院都有跟在地的警察局保持聯絡，所以就像剛剛部長講的，當下病人不假離開就應該通知在地的警察單位。"],["陳委員俊宇：可是這個部分我還是強調，像基隆這個案子，他雖然是委外契約的醫療機構，我們還是要跟他們告知，就是在通報上應該適時的去檢討啦！因為有時候他可能主管更換或是怎樣，會不會導致這個病患在脫逃的時候沒有第一時間去通報，所以才會衍生這個延誤通報的問題，這個部分也請我們相關單位應該要重視。","再來，這次的這個個案追捕當中，有人提出公布的監護處分人照片和實際的長相有所差距，恐怕難以辨認。法務部這邊是不是可以研擬，在病患就醫的過程裡面，每一個階段是不是有一個不定時的拍照來存檔，以備不時之需，有沒有可能？"],["鄭部長銘謙：拍照這部分是會涉及到個資，就是肖像權的問題，這部分我們再來研議。"],["陳委員俊宇：是不是可以設計一個……"],["鄭部長銘謙：可行性。"],["陳委員俊宇：對，可行性的方式。"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個在法制上是不是可以有辦法去做到，就像委員提到每一個時間就給他拍一張存檔起來，這部分的適法性我們再來研究。"],["陳委員俊宇：好。我想我們負責執行的檢察官平時業務已經非常的繁重，部長您也是檢察官出身，可能有相關的經驗可以分享。依據法務部的資料來看，每年監護處分執行的個案大概是200名。在保安處分執行法第四十八條裡面規定，檢察官對於受監護處分之人與指揮執行後至少每個月應該要去視察一次並製作紀錄，我想這也是對於個案的情況能夠隨時掌握的必要措施。像上次的這個基隆案例來看，北檢的檢察官執行送往基隆的機構，最後又將這個病患送到高雄的司法精神病院來執行。如果機構分佈在各地會不會讓檢察官需要長途跋涉，在視察上要花費比較多的時間？這個問題我們有什麼方式可以來解決？或是用一些線上的遠距離的方式來處理可以嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這部分我們再來研究，不過我們到目前為止就是要求檢察官每月要去訪視一次。以後精神病房分佈在北、中、南、東，那精神醫院這部分的設置當然是跟各地檢署有一些距離。我想這個方便性部分我們會參酌委員的這些意見，研擬是不是用這樣的方式會比較適合。我們也是鼓勵最好是親自去訪視，能夠直接去看現場，這部分是比較方便，委員這部分的寶貴意見，我們來參酌。"],["陳委員俊宇：好。在司法精神病院方面，我想請教部長，就是我們目前好像有在規劃未來有可能會建置北、中、南、東都有司法精神病房，因為現在好像只有在南部有而已。"],["鄭部長銘謙：已經在收治了。"],["陳委員俊宇：這個部分比如說未來有可能在東部的哪一個地點，有沒有可能？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這部分我們就不方便……"],["陳委員俊宇：好，沒關係。那可不可以讓我知道我們設置司法精神病房的設置要件，要符合什麼樣的條件才有可能在那個點來設置，有沒有可能？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這部分我們再跟……"],["陳委員俊宇：這個部分會後再給我一份資料，還是我們私下再討論一下。我也期待各區域的司法精神病院建置完成之後，能夠妥善因應相關監護的需求，來讓相關的病患有一個比較好而且比較方便照顧的地方，也能夠期待他們在這個照顧過程中，他們身體的健康狀況能夠慢慢的獲得照顧跟好轉。這個部分也請法務部跟衛福部好好的去思考這個問題，謝謝部長。"],["鄭部長銘謙：謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","接下來我們請林思銘委員進行詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":148,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-27","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","鍾佳濱","莊瑞雄","沈發惠","羅智強","謝龍介","陳俊宇","林思銘","吳思瑤","翁曉玲"],"page_start":109,"meetingDate":["2024-05-29"],"gazette_id":"1135301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135301_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第27次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請司法院秘書長、法務部部長、衛生福利部率所屬相關單位列席就「強化社會安全網─ 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670.067, \"end\": 670.587, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"慢\", \"start\": 670.587, \"end\": 670.707, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"慢\", \"start\": 670.707, \"end\": 670.907, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 670.907, \"end\": 671.747, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"獲\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 671.747, \"end\": 671.867, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 671.867, \"end\": 672.288, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 672.288, \"end\": 672.548, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"照\", \"start\": 672.548, \"end\": 672.908, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"顧\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 672.908, \"end\": 673.068, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 673.068, \"end\": 673.088, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"轉\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 674.479, \"end\": 674.579, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 674.579, \"end\": 674.8, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 674.8, \"end\": 674.941, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 674.941, \"end\": 675.442, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 675.442, \"end\": 675.643, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 675.643, \"end\": 675.803, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 675.803, \"end\": 676.345, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"衛\"}, {\"word\": \"福\", \"start\": 676.345, \"end\": 676.566, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 676.566, \"end\": 676.947, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 676.947, \"end\": 677.087, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 677.087, \"end\": 677.188, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 677.188, \"end\": 677.308, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 677.308, \"end\": 677.529, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"思\", \"start\": 677.529, \"end\": 677.709, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 677.709, \"end\": 677.79, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 677.79, \"end\": 677.81, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 677.81, \"end\": 677.87, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 677.87, \"end\": 677.95, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 677.95, \"end\": 677.97, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"en\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,309 --> 00:00:18,606\n發 言 好 主 席 吳 釗 瑋 我 們 請 鄭 部 長 好 麻 煩 鄭 部 長\n\n2\n00:00:26,175 --> 00:00:52,514\n好 部 長 早 委 員 好 部 長 早 在 前 兩 週 啦 齁 前 兩 週 我 們 這 個 監 護 處 分 人 從 基 隆 這 個 某 醫 院 脫 逃 的 案 例 那 在 整 個 大 台 北 地 區 流 竄 4 天 後 落 網 短 短 幾 天 的 時 間 我 們 也 看 到 除 了 警 力 全 力 氣 捕 一 時 間 大 量 的 這 個 新 聞 報 導 情 況 之 下 也 在 網 路 上 流 竄 了 他 的 行 蹤 地 點\n\n3\n00:00:53,194 --> 00:01:18,608\n那 我 想 都 讓 民 眾 感 到 相 當 的 恐 慌 那 幸 好 最 後 在 沒 有 發 生 情 況 的 這 個 遺 憾 的 情 況 之 下 成 功 將 這 個 男 子 棄 補 歸 案 那 今 天 特 別 感 謝 吳 昭 偉 所 排 的 這 個 專 報 不 但 是 對 於 先 前 脫 逃 的 這 個 事 件 做 一 個 檢 討 也 能 夠 對 於 我 們 日 前 暫 行 安 置 與 監 護 處 分 制 度 的 這 個 執 行 狀 況 來 做 一 個 詳 加 檢 討\n\n4\n00:01:21,690 --> 00:01:48,292\n那 我 想 不 論 是 暫 行 安 置 還 是 監 護 處 分 都 是 為 了 要 兼 顧 刑 事 和 醫 療 的 需 求 也 是 我 們 社 會 安 全 網 重 要 的 一 環 但 在 保 障 人 權 的 前 提 之 下 應 該 還 是 要 極 力 避 免 脫 逃 的 這 種 狀 況 再 發 生 那 我 想 請 教 部 長 我 們 現 在 對 於 暫 行 安 置 或 是 監 護 處 分 在 執 行 的 過 程 中 這 種 防 逃 的 機 制 應 該 要 如 何 來 落 實\n\n5\n00:01:51,543 --> 00:02:12,711\n這 部 分 我 們 在 規 劃 的 時 候 我 們 在 加 強 這 個 安 全 維 護 的 設 施 跟 人 員 的 訓 練 這 部 分 我 們 是 會 落 實 那 我 們 在 指 定 目 前 是 司 法 精 神 醫 院 還 沒 有 建 置 完 成 只 有 一 個 司 法 精 神 病 房 那 我 們 目 前 的 這 些 的\n\n6\n00:02:13,951 --> 00:02:14,931\n上 次 基 隆 那 個 應 該 是 在 放 風 的 時 候\n\n7\n00:02:38,373 --> 00:02:38,593\n陳 俊 宇 議 員\n\n8\n00:02:57,301 --> 00:03:18,176\n這 也 是 提 醒 請 我 們 法 務 部 這 邊 就 對 於 這 方 面 應 該 做 提 升 那 我 剛 剛 聽 應 該 部 長 您 也 有 想 法 那 我 希 望 應 該 要 落 實 那 我 們 從 這 個 基 隆 的 個 案 來 看 醫 院 是 不 是 有 違 反 這 個 保 安 處 分 的 相 關 法 規 有 嗎 這 部 分 的 是\n\n9\n00:03:18,916 --> 00:03:21,076\n對 於 收 容 醫 療 機 構 的 安 全 , 我 想 這 種 外 衣 介 護 的 部 分 請 教 部 長 。\n\n10\n00:03:41,155 --> 00:03:41,215\n委 員 好\n\n11\n00:04:10,612 --> 00:04:35,980\n那 有 關 於 那 個 介 護 人 員 我 按 照 我 們 相 關 規 定 我 們 介 護 處 所 我 們 是 得 設 介 護 人 員 對 那 現 在 如 果 沒 有 設 的 話 我 們 另 外 也 規 定 可 以 委 由 這 個 介 護 機 構 他 去 僱 用 相 關 的 介 護 人 員 來 進 行 介 護 僱 用 介 護 人 員 對 可 是 如 果 以 基 隆 的 這 一 件 基 隆 他 那 不 是 我 們 的 他 不 是 我 們 保 安 組 份 執 行 處 所 他 是 我 們 跟 可 是 那 也 是 契 約 委 外 的 契 約 委 外\n\n12\n00:04:36,220 --> 00:04:36,941\n對 , 我 現 在 是 說 安 全 的 問 題\n\n13\n00:04:56,938 --> 00:05:08,725\n因 為 你 如 果 有 殺 人 未 遂 的 你 請 一 般 的 保 全 公 司 去 接 護 這 也 蠻 奇 怪 的 所 以 在 個 案 發 生 的 時 候 他 常 常 會 請 求 地 檢 署 來 把 法 警 接 護 就 醫 那 另 外\n\n14\n00:05:09,758 --> 00:05:36,992\n另 外 那 次 長 您 先 請 回 那 根 據 這 個 《 精 神 衛 生 法 》 第 5 2 條 第 一 項 的 規 定 在 這 個 精 神 照 護 機 構 對 於 病 患 擅 自 離 開 機 構 時 應 該 要 通 知 家 屬 及 保 護 人 那 病 患 行 蹤 不 明 時 應 即 刻 通 知 地 方 主 管 機 關 的 警 察 機 構 來 協 助 協 詢 但 是 我 們 就 是 剛 剛 講 的 部 分 在 通 報 方 面 似 乎 是 延 誤 了 4 個 小 時 才 通 報\n\n15\n00:05:37,992 --> 00:06:07,070\n那 這 4 個 小 時 就 足 夠 讓 這 個 病 患 的 行 蹤 難 以 追 查 那 當 時 也 造 成 這 個 基 隆 附 近 的 這 些 縣 市 在 學 校 方 面 都 禁 止 這 個 訪 客 進 入 了 嘛 所 以 這 個 我 想 請 教 部 長 就 是 說 在 這 個 應 急 通 知 應 該 在 多 久 的 時 間 之 內 就 要 通 知 這 第 一 個 問 題 那 第 二 個 問 題 就 是 說 收 容 機 構 和 當 地 的 警 察 機 關 之 間 通 報 的 管 道 是 否 暢 通\n\n16\n00:06:09,669 --> 00:06:31,518\n這 發 現 的 話 我 們 是 要 求 是 即 時 通 知 即 時 通 知 即 時 即 時 馬 上 就 要 通 報 了 都 要 通 報 所 以 沒 有 時 間 的 限 制 沒 有 時 間 的 那 個 好 那 個 我 們 目 前 的 這 個 管 道 有 沒 有 暢 通 跟 警 察 機 關 目 前 這 是 這 個 是 管 道 是 這 個 通 知 的 話 我 們 是 第 一 時 間 就 會 通 報 那 個 警 方 那 地 檢 署 也 會 通\n\n17\n00:06:34,540 --> 00:07:02,528\n跟 委 員 報 告 目 前 各 家 醫 院 都 跟 在 地 的 這 個 警 察 局 其 實 都 有 保 持 聯 絡 所 以 就 像 剛 剛 部 長 講 的 這 個 應 該 當 下 病 人 不 加 離 開 就 應 該 通 知 在 地 的 警 察 單 位 以 上 可 是 這 個 部 分 我 還 是 強 調 啦 像 基 隆 這 個 案 子 他 雖 然 是 委 外 契 約 的 單 位 醫 療 機 構 我 們 還 是 要 跟 他 們 這 個 這 個 告 知 就 是 在 通 報 上 應 該 去 適 時 的 去 檢 討 啦 因 為 有 時 候 他 可 能 這 個\n\n18\n00:07:04,028 --> 00:07:18,163\n主 管 更 換 或 是 怎 樣 會 不 會 導 致 說 這 個 病 患 在 脫 逃 的 時 候 沒 有 第 一 時 間 去 通 報 所 以 才 會 衍 生 這 個 延 誤 通 報 的 問 題 這 個 部 分 也 請 我 們 這 個 相 關 單 位 應 該 要 重 視 那 再 來 就 是 我 們\n\n19\n00:07:19,381 --> 00:07:46,889\n這 次 的 這 個 個 案 追 捕 當 中 有 人 提 出 這 個 監 護 處 分 人 的 部 分 他 公 布 的 照 片 和 實 際 的 這 個 長 相 有 所 差 距 恐 怕 會 造 成 難 以 辨 認 那 法 務 部 這 邊 我 們 是 不 是 可 以 來 演 你 說 在 這 個 病 患 就 醫 的 過 程 裡 面 每 一 個 階 段 是 不 是 有 一 個 這 個 不 定 時 的 拍 照 的 這 個 動 作 來 存 檔 那 以 便 不 時 之 需 有 沒 有 可 能\n\n20\n00:07:48,145 --> 00:08:11,974\n這 個 是 拍 照 這 部 分 是 有 會 涉 及 到 我 們 各 自 就 是 肖 像 權 的 一 個 問 題 那 這 部 分 我 們 再 來 研 議 是 不 是 可 以 設 計 一 個 可 行 性 的 方 式 因 為 這 個 法 制 上 是 不 是 可 以 有 辦 法 去 做 到 就 像 委 員 提 到 就 是 每 一 個 時 間 就 給 他 拍 一 張 那 個 存 檔 起 來 那 這 部 分 我 們 再 釋 法 性 我 們 再 來 研 究\n\n21\n00:08:13,795 --> 00:08:28,007\n我 們 負 責 執 行 的 檢 察 官 平 時 業 務 已 經 都 非 常 繁 重 部 長 您 也 是 檢 察 官 出 身 可 能 有 相 關 的 經 驗 可 以 分 享\n\n22\n00:08:28,567 --> 00:08:51,097\n那 依 據 法 務 部 的 資 料 來 看 這 個 每 年 我 們 在 監 護 處 分 執 行 的 個 案 大 概 是 2 0 0 名 那 在 保 安 處 分 執 行 法 第 4 8 條 裡 面 有 規 定 檢 察 官 對 於 受 監 護 處 分 之 人 與 指 揮 執 行 後 至 少 每 個 月 應 該 要 去 視 察 一 次 並 製 作 紀 錄 那 我 想 也 是 對 於 個 案 的 這 個 情 況 能 夠 隨 時 掌 握 的 必 要 措 施\n\n23\n00:08:51,877 --> 00:09:15,392\n但 譬 如 像 這 個 上 次 的 這 個 基 隆 案 例 來 看 北 檢 的 這 個 檢 察 官 執 行 送 往 這 個 基 隆 機 構 那 現 在 又 將 這 個 病 患 最 後 送 到 現 在 是 送 到 高 雄 的 司 法 這 個 精 神 病 院 來 執 行 若 機 構 分 布 在 各 地 會 不 會 讓 檢 察 官 需 要 長 途 跋 涉 那 在 視 察 上 要 花 費 比 較 多 的 時 間\n\n24\n00:09:17,393 --> 00:09:37,832\n這 個 問 題 我 們 會 不 會 有 什 麼 方 式 可 以 來 解 決 或 是 用 一 些 線 上 的 這 個 遠 距 離 的 方 式 來 處 理 可 以 嗎 這 部 分 我 們 再 來 研 究 不 過 我 們 到 目 前 為 止 我 們 是 要 求 就 是 檢 討 每 月 就 是 要 去 訪 視 一 次 那 以 後 精 神 病 房 它 是 分 布 在 北 部 南 東 那 精 神 醫 院 這 部 分 設 置 的\n\n25\n00:09:38,713 --> 00:09:38,933\n陳 俊 宇 議 員\n\n26\n00:10:03,624 --> 00:10:22,121\n在 這 個 我 們 司 法 精 神 病 院 方 面 我 想 請 教 部 長 一 下 就 是 我 們 目 前 好 像 有 在 規 劃 未 來 有 可 能 會 建 置 北 中 南 東 都 有 的 這 個 司 法 精 神 病 房 因 為 現 在 好 像 只 有 在 南 部 有 而 已 嘛 已 經 在 收 治 了 對 那 這 個 部 分\n\n27\n00:10:22,882 --> 00:10:43,918\n比 如 說 未 來 有 可 能 在 東 部 的 哪 一 個 地 點 有 沒 有 可 能 這 部 分 我 們 就 不 方 便 沒 關 係 那 可 不 可 以 讓 我 知 道 說 我 們 設 置 這 個 司 法 精 神 病 房 的 它 的 設 置 的 這 個 要 件 要 符 合 到 什 麼 樣 的 條 件 才 有 可 能 在 那 個 點 來 設 置 有 沒 有 可 能\n\n28\n00:10:46,079 --> 00:11:13,088\n這 個 部 分 會 後 再 給 我 一 份 資 料 啦 看 還 是 在 我 們 私 下 再 討 論 一 下 那 我 也 期 待 說 因 為 各 區 域 的 這 個 司 法 精 神 病 院 建 置 完 成 之 後 能 夠 妥 善 因 應 相 關 這 個 監 護 的 需 求 來 讓 我 們 這 個 相 關 的 病 患 有 一 個 比 較 好 而 且 比 較 方 便 的 一 個 照 顧 的 地 方 也 能 夠 期 待 他 們 在 這 個 照 顧 過 程 裡 面 他 們 身 體 的 健 康 狀 況 也 能 夠 慢 慢 的 獲 得 一 個 一 個 照 顧 跟 好 轉\n\n29\n00:11:14,479 --> 00:11:17,970\n這 個 部 分 也 請 我 們 法 務 部 跟 衛 福 部 好 好 的 去 思 考 這 個 問 題 好 謝 謝 部 長 好 謝 謝 委 員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n309\t18606\t發言好 主席吳釗瑋我們請鄭部長好 麻煩鄭部長\n26175\t52514\t好部長早委員好部長早在前兩週啦齁前兩週我們這個監護處分人從基隆這個某醫院脫逃的案例那在整個大台北地區流竄4天後落網短短幾天的時間我們也看到除了警力全力氣捕一時間大量的這個新聞報導情況之下也在網路上流竄了他的行蹤地點\n53194\t78608\t那我想都讓民眾感到相當的恐慌那幸好最後在沒有發生情況的這個遺憾的情況之下成功將這個男子棄補歸案那今天特別感謝吳昭偉所排的這個專報不但是對於先前脫逃的這個事件做一個檢討也能夠對於我們日前暫行安置與監護處分制度的這個執行狀況來做一個詳加檢討\n81690\t108292\t那我想不論是暫行安置還是監護處分都是為了要兼顧刑事和醫療的需求也是我們社會安全網重要的一環但在保障人權的前提之下應該還是要極力避免脫逃的這種狀況再發生那我想請教部長我們現在對於暫行安置或是監護處分在執行的過程中這種防逃的機制應該要如何來落實\n111543\t132711\t這部分我們在規劃的時候我們在加強這個安全維護的設施跟人員的訓練這部分我們是會落實那我們在指定目前是司法精神醫院還沒有建置完成只有一個司法精神病房那我們目前的這些的\n133951\t134931\t上次基隆那個應該是在放風的時候\n158373\t158593\t陳俊宇議員\n177301\t198176\t這也是提醒請我們法務部這邊就對於這方面應該做提升那我剛剛聽應該部長您也有想法那我希望應該要落實那我們從這個基隆的個案來看醫院是不是有違反這個保安處分的相關法規有嗎這部分的是\n198916\t201076\t對於收容醫療機構的安全,我想這種外衣介護的部分請教部長。\n221155\t221215\t委員好\n250612\t275980\t那有關於那個介護人員我按照我們相關規定我們介護處所我們是得設介護人員對那現在如果沒有設的話我們另外也規定可以委由這個介護機構他去僱用相關的介護人員來進行介護僱用介護人員對可是如果以基隆的這一件基隆他那不是我們的他不是我們保安組份執行處所他是我們跟可是那也是契約委外的契約委外\n276220\t276941\t對,我現在是說安全的問題\n296938\t308725\t因為你如果有殺人未遂的你請一般的保全公司去接護這也蠻奇怪的所以在個案發生的時候他常常會請求地檢署來把法警接護就醫那另外\n309758\t336992\t另外那次長您先請回那根據這個《精神衛生法》第52條第一項的規定在這個精神照護機構對於病患擅自離開機構時應該要通知家屬及保護人那病患行蹤不明時應即刻通知地方主管機關的警察機構來協助協詢但是我們就是剛剛講的部分在通報方面似乎是延誤了4個小時才通報\n337992\t367070\t那這4個小時就足夠讓這個病患的行蹤難以追查那當時也造成這個基隆附近的這些縣市在學校方面都禁止這個訪客進入了嘛所以這個我想請教部長就是說在這個應急通知應該在多久的時間之內就要通知這第一個問題那第二個問題就是說收容機構和當地的警察機關之間通報的管道是否暢通\n369669\t391518\t這發現的話我們是要求是即時通知即時通知即時即時馬上就要通報了都要通報所以沒有時間的限制沒有時間的那個好 那個我們目前的這個管道有沒有暢通跟警察機關目前這是這個是管道是這個通知的話我們是第一時間就會通報那個警方那地檢署也會通\n394540\t422528\t跟委員報告目前各家醫院都跟在地的這個警察局其實都有保持聯絡所以就像剛剛部長講的這個應該當下病人不加離開就應該通知在地的警察單位以上可是這個部分我還是強調啦像基隆這個案子他雖然是委外契約的單位醫療機構我們還是要跟他們這個這個告知就是在通報上應該去適時的去檢討啦因為有時候他可能這個\n424028\t438163\t主管更換或是怎樣會不會導致說這個病患在脫逃的時候沒有第一時間去通報所以才會衍生這個延誤通報的問題這個部分也請我們這個相關單位應該要重視那再來就是我們\n439381\t466889\t這次的這個個案追捕當中有人提出這個監護處分人的部分他公布的照片和實際的這個長相有所差距恐怕會造成難以辨認那法務部這邊我們是不是可以來演你說在這個病患就醫的過程裡面每一個階段是不是有一個這個不定時的拍照的這個動作來存檔那以便不時之需有沒有可能\n468145\t491974\t這個是拍照這部分是有會涉及到我們各自就是肖像權的一個問題那這部分我們再來研議是不是可以設計一個可行性的方式因為這個法制上是不是可以有辦法去做到就像委員提到就是每一個時間就給他拍一張那個存檔起來那這部分我們再釋法性我們再來研究\n493795\t508007\t我們負責執行的檢察官平時業務已經都非常繁重部長您也是檢察官出身可能有相關的經驗可以分享\n508567\t531097\t那依據法務部的資料來看這個每年我們在監護處分執行的個案大概是200名那在保安處分執行法第48條裡面有規定檢察官對於受監護處分之人與指揮執行後至少每個月應該要去視察一次並製作紀錄那我想也是對於個案的這個情況能夠隨時掌握的必要措施\n531877\t555392\t但譬如像這個上次的這個基隆案例來看北檢的這個檢察官執行送往這個基隆機構那現在又將這個病患最後送到現在是送到高雄的司法這個精神病院來執行若機構分布在各地會不會讓檢察官需要長途跋涉那在視察上要花費比較多的時間\n557393\t577832\t這個問題我們會不會有什麼方式可以來解決或是用一些線上的這個遠距離的方式來處理可以嗎這部分我們再來研究不過我們到目前為止我們是要求就是檢討每月就是要去訪視一次那以後精神病房它是分布在北部南東那精神醫院這部分設置的\n578713\t578933\t陳俊宇議員\n603624\t622121\t在這個我們司法精神病院方面我想請教部長一下就是我們目前好像有在規劃未來有可能會建置北中南東都有的這個司法精神病房因為現在好像只有在南部有而已嘛已經在收治了對那這個部分\n622882\t643918\t比如說未來有可能在東部的哪一個地點有沒有可能這部分我們就不方便沒關係那可不可以讓我知道說我們設置這個司法精神病房的它的設置的這個要件要符合到什麼樣的條件才有可能在那個點來設置有沒有可能\n646079\t673088\t這個部分會後再給我一份資料啦看還是在我們私下再討論一下那我也期待說因為各區域的這個司法精神病院建置完成之後能夠妥善因應相關這個監護的需求來讓我們這個相關的病患有一個比較好而且比較方便的一個照顧的地方也能夠期待他們在這個照顧過程裡面他們身體的健康狀況也能夠慢慢的獲得一個一個照顧跟好轉\n674479\t677970\t這個部分也請我們法務部跟衛福部好好的去思考這個問題好 謝謝部長好 謝謝委員\n","txt":"發言好 主席吳釗瑋我們請鄭部長好 麻煩鄭部長\n好部長早委員好部長早在前兩週啦齁前兩週我們這個監護處分人從基隆這個某醫院脫逃的案例那在整個大台北地區流竄4天後落網短短幾天的時間我們也看到除了警力全力氣捕一時間大量的這個新聞報導情況之下也在網路上流竄了他的行蹤地點\n那我想都讓民眾感到相當的恐慌那幸好最後在沒有發生情況的這個遺憾的情況之下成功將這個男子棄補歸案那今天特別感謝吳昭偉所排的這個專報不但是對於先前脫逃的這個事件做一個檢討也能夠對於我們日前暫行安置與監護處分制度的這個執行狀況來做一個詳加檢討\n那我想不論是暫行安置還是監護處分都是為了要兼顧刑事和醫療的需求也是我們社會安全網重要的一環但在保障人權的前提之下應該還是要極力避免脫逃的這種狀況再發生那我想請教部長我們現在對於暫行安置或是監護處分在執行的過程中這種防逃的機制應該要如何來落實\n這部分我們在規劃的時候我們在加強這個安全維護的設施跟人員的訓練這部分我們是會落實那我們在指定目前是司法精神醫院還沒有建置完成只有一個司法精神病房那我們目前的這些的\n上次基隆那個應該是在放風的時候\n陳俊宇議員\n這也是提醒請我們法務部這邊就對於這方面應該做提升那我剛剛聽應該部長您也有想法那我希望應該要落實那我們從這個基隆的個案來看醫院是不是有違反這個保安處分的相關法規有嗎這部分的是\n對於收容醫療機構的安全,我想這種外衣介護的部分請教部長。\n委員好\n那有關於那個介護人員我按照我們相關規定我們介護處所我們是得設介護人員對那現在如果沒有設的話我們另外也規定可以委由這個介護機構他去僱用相關的介護人員來進行介護僱用介護人員對可是如果以基隆的這一件基隆他那不是我們的他不是我們保安組份執行處所他是我們跟可是那也是契約委外的契約委外\n對,我現在是說安全的問題\n因為你如果有殺人未遂的你請一般的保全公司去接護這也蠻奇怪的所以在個案發生的時候他常常會請求地檢署來把法警接護就醫那另外\n另外那次長您先請回那根據這個《精神衛生法》第52條第一項的規定在這個精神照護機構對於病患擅自離開機構時應該要通知家屬及保護人那病患行蹤不明時應即刻通知地方主管機關的警察機構來協助協詢但是我們就是剛剛講的部分在通報方面似乎是延誤了4個小時才通報\n那這4個小時就足夠讓這個病患的行蹤難以追查那當時也造成這個基隆附近的這些縣市在學校方面都禁止這個訪客進入了嘛所以這個我想請教部長就是說在這個應急通知應該在多久的時間之內就要通知這第一個問題那第二個問題就是說收容機構和當地的警察機關之間通報的管道是否暢通\n這發現的話我們是要求是即時通知即時通知即時即時馬上就要通報了都要通報所以沒有時間的限制沒有時間的那個好 那個我們目前的這個管道有沒有暢通跟警察機關目前這是這個是管道是這個通知的話我們是第一時間就會通報那個警方那地檢署也會通\n跟委員報告目前各家醫院都跟在地的這個警察局其實都有保持聯絡所以就像剛剛部長講的這個應該當下病人不加離開就應該通知在地的警察單位以上可是這個部分我還是強調啦像基隆這個案子他雖然是委外契約的單位醫療機構我們還是要跟他們這個這個告知就是在通報上應該去適時的去檢討啦因為有時候他可能這個\n主管更換或是怎樣會不會導致說這個病患在脫逃的時候沒有第一時間去通報所以才會衍生這個延誤通報的問題這個部分也請我們這個相關單位應該要重視那再來就是我們\n這次的這個個案追捕當中有人提出這個監護處分人的部分他公布的照片和實際的這個長相有所差距恐怕會造成難以辨認那法務部這邊我們是不是可以來演你說在這個病患就醫的過程裡面每一個階段是不是有一個這個不定時的拍照的這個動作來存檔那以便不時之需有沒有可能\n這個是拍照這部分是有會涉及到我們各自就是肖像權的一個問題那這部分我們再來研議是不是可以設計一個可行性的方式因為這個法制上是不是可以有辦法去做到就像委員提到就是每一個時間就給他拍一張那個存檔起來那這部分我們再釋法性我們再來研究\n我們負責執行的檢察官平時業務已經都非常繁重部長您也是檢察官出身可能有相關的經驗可以分享\n那依據法務部的資料來看這個每年我們在監護處分執行的個案大概是200名那在保安處分執行法第48條裡面有規定檢察官對於受監護處分之人與指揮執行後至少每個月應該要去視察一次並製作紀錄那我想也是對於個案的這個情況能夠隨時掌握的必要措施\n但譬如像這個上次的這個基隆案例來看北檢的這個檢察官執行送往這個基隆機構那現在又將這個病患最後送到現在是送到高雄的司法這個精神病院來執行若機構分布在各地會不會讓檢察官需要長途跋涉那在視察上要花費比較多的時間\n這個問題我們會不會有什麼方式可以來解決或是用一些線上的這個遠距離的方式來處理可以嗎這部分我們再來研究不過我們到目前為止我們是要求就是檢討每月就是要去訪視一次那以後精神病房它是分布在北部南東那精神醫院這部分設置的\n陳俊宇議員\n在這個我們司法精神病院方面我想請教部長一下就是我們目前好像有在規劃未來有可能會建置北中南東都有的這個司法精神病房因為現在好像只有在南部有而已嘛已經在收治了對那這個部分\n比如說未來有可能在東部的哪一個地點有沒有可能這部分我們就不方便沒關係那可不可以讓我知道說我們設置這個司法精神病房的它的設置的這個要件要符合到什麼樣的條件才有可能在那個點來設置有沒有可能\n這個部分會後再給我一份資料啦看還是在我們私下再討論一下那我也期待說因為各區域的這個司法精神病院建置完成之後能夠妥善因應相關這個監護的需求來讓我們這個相關的病患有一個比較好而且比較方便的一個照顧的地方也能夠期待他們在這個照顧過程裡面他們身體的健康狀況也能夠慢慢的獲得一個一個照顧跟好轉\n這個部分也請我們法務部跟衛福部好好的去思考這個問題好 謝謝部長好 謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.309 --> 00:18.606\n發 言 好 主 席 吳 釗 瑋 我 們 請 鄭 部 長 好 麻 煩 鄭 部 長\n\n00:26.175 --> 00:52.514\n好 部 長 早 委 員 好 部 長 早 在 前 兩 週 啦 齁 前 兩 週 我 們 這 個 監 護 處 分 人 從 基 隆 這 個 某 醫 院 脫 逃 的 案 例 那 在 整 個 大 台 北 地 區 流 竄 4 天 後 落 網 短 短 幾 天 的 時 間 我 們 也 看 到 除 了 警 力 全 力 氣 捕 一 時 間 大 量 的 這 個 新 聞 報 導 情 況 之 下 也 在 網 路 上 流 竄 了 他 的 行 蹤 地 點\n\n00:53.194 --> 01:18.608\n那 我 想 都 讓 民 眾 感 到 相 當 的 恐 慌 那 幸 好 最 後 在 沒 有 發 生 情 況 的 這 個 遺 憾 的 情 況 之 下 成 功 將 這 個 男 子 棄 補 歸 案 那 今 天 特 別 感 謝 吳 昭 偉 所 排 的 這 個 專 報 不 但 是 對 於 先 前 脫 逃 的 這 個 事 件 做 一 個 檢 討 也 能 夠 對 於 我 們 日 前 暫 行 安 置 與 監 護 處 分 制 度 的 這 個 執 行 狀 況 來 做 一 個 詳 加 檢 討\n\n01:21.690 --> 01:48.292\n那 我 想 不 論 是 暫 行 安 置 還 是 監 護 處 分 都 是 為 了 要 兼 顧 刑 事 和 醫 療 的 需 求 也 是 我 們 社 會 安 全 網 重 要 的 一 環 但 在 保 障 人 權 的 前 提 之 下 應 該 還 是 要 極 力 避 免 脫 逃 的 這 種 狀 況 再 發 生 那 我 想 請 教 部 長 我 們 現 在 對 於 暫 行 安 置 或 是 監 護 處 分 在 執 行 的 過 程 中 這 種 防 逃 的 機 制 應 該 要 如 何 來 落 實\n\n01:51.543 --> 02:12.711\n這 部 分 我 們 在 規 劃 的 時 候 我 們 在 加 強 這 個 安 全 維 護 的 設 施 跟 人 員 的 訓 練 這 部 分 我 們 是 會 落 實 那 我 們 在 指 定 目 前 是 司 法 精 神 醫 院 還 沒 有 建 置 完 成 只 有 一 個 司 法 精 神 病 房 那 我 們 目 前 的 這 些 的\n\n02:13.951 --> 02:14.931\n上 次 基 隆 那 個 應 該 是 在 放 風 的 時 候\n\n02:38.373 --> 02:38.593\n陳 俊 宇 議 員\n\n02:57.301 --> 03:18.176\n這 也 是 提 醒 請 我 們 法 務 部 這 邊 就 對 於 這 方 面 應 該 做 提 升 那 我 剛 剛 聽 應 該 部 長 您 也 有 想 法 那 我 希 望 應 該 要 落 實 那 我 們 從 這 個 基 隆 的 個 案 來 看 醫 院 是 不 是 有 違 反 這 個 保 安 處 分 的 相 關 法 規 有 嗎 這 部 分 的 是\n\n03:18.916 --> 03:21.076\n對 於 收 容 醫 療 機 構 的 安 全 , 我 想 這 種 外 衣 介 護 的 部 分 請 教 部 長 。\n\n03:41.155 --> 03:41.215\n委 員 好\n\n04:10.612 --> 04:35.980\n那 有 關 於 那 個 介 護 人 員 我 按 照 我 們 相 關 規 定 我 們 介 護 處 所 我 們 是 得 設 介 護 人 員 對 那 現 在 如 果 沒 有 設 的 話 我 們 另 外 也 規 定 可 以 委 由 這 個 介 護 機 構 他 去 僱 用 相 關 的 介 護 人 員 來 進 行 介 護 僱 用 介 護 人 員 對 可 是 如 果 以 基 隆 的 這 一 件 基 隆 他 那 不 是 我 們 的 他 不 是 我 們 保 安 組 份 執 行 處 所 他 是 我 們 跟 可 是 那 也 是 契 約 委 外 的 契 約 委 外\n\n04:36.220 --> 04:36.941\n對 , 我 現 在 是 說 安 全 的 問 題\n\n04:56.938 --> 05:08.725\n因 為 你 如 果 有 殺 人 未 遂 的 你 請 一 般 的 保 全 公 司 去 接 護 這 也 蠻 奇 怪 的 所 以 在 個 案 發 生 的 時 候 他 常 常 會 請 求 地 檢 署 來 把 法 警 接 護 就 醫 那 另 外\n\n05:09.758 --> 05:36.992\n另 外 那 次 長 您 先 請 回 那 根 據 這 個 《 精 神 衛 生 法 》 第 5 2 條 第 一 項 的 規 定 在 這 個 精 神 照 護 機 構 對 於 病 患 擅 自 離 開 機 構 時 應 該 要 通 知 家 屬 及 保 護 人 那 病 患 行 蹤 不 明 時 應 即 刻 通 知 地 方 主 管 機 關 的 警 察 機 構 來 協 助 協 詢 但 是 我 們 就 是 剛 剛 講 的 部 分 在 通 報 方 面 似 乎 是 延 誤 了 4 個 小 時 才 通 報\n\n05:37.992 --> 06:07.070\n那 這 4 個 小 時 就 足 夠 讓 這 個 病 患 的 行 蹤 難 以 追 查 那 當 時 也 造 成 這 個 基 隆 附 近 的 這 些 縣 市 在 學 校 方 面 都 禁 止 這 個 訪 客 進 入 了 嘛 所 以 這 個 我 想 請 教 部 長 就 是 說 在 這 個 應 急 通 知 應 該 在 多 久 的 時 間 之 內 就 要 通 知 這 第 一 個 問 題 那 第 二 個 問 題 就 是 說 收 容 機 構 和 當 地 的 警 察 機 關 之 間 通 報 的 管 道 是 否 暢 通\n\n06:09.669 --> 06:31.518\n這 發 現 的 話 我 們 是 要 求 是 即 時 通 知 即 時 通 知 即 時 即 時 馬 上 就 要 通 報 了 都 要 通 報 所 以 沒 有 時 間 的 限 制 沒 有 時 間 的 那 個 好 那 個 我 們 目 前 的 這 個 管 道 有 沒 有 暢 通 跟 警 察 機 關 目 前 這 是 這 個 是 管 道 是 這 個 通 知 的 話 我 們 是 第 一 時 間 就 會 通 報 那 個 警 方 那 地 檢 署 也 會 通\n\n06:34.540 --> 07:02.528\n跟 委 員 報 告 目 前 各 家 醫 院 都 跟 在 地 的 這 個 警 察 局 其 實 都 有 保 持 聯 絡 所 以 就 像 剛 剛 部 長 講 的 這 個 應 該 當 下 病 人 不 加 離 開 就 應 該 通 知 在 地 的 警 察 單 位 以 上 可 是 這 個 部 分 我 還 是 強 調 啦 像 基 隆 這 個 案 子 他 雖 然 是 委 外 契 約 的 單 位 醫 療 機 構 我 們 還 是 要 跟 他 們 這 個 這 個 告 知 就 是 在 通 報 上 應 該 去 適 時 的 去 檢 討 啦 因 為 有 時 候 他 可 能 這 個\n\n07:04.028 --> 07:18.163\n主 管 更 換 或 是 怎 樣 會 不 會 導 致 說 這 個 病 患 在 脫 逃 的 時 候 沒 有 第 一 時 間 去 通 報 所 以 才 會 衍 生 這 個 延 誤 通 報 的 問 題 這 個 部 分 也 請 我 們 這 個 相 關 單 位 應 該 要 重 視 那 再 來 就 是 我 們\n\n07:19.381 --> 07:46.889\n這 次 的 這 個 個 案 追 捕 當 中 有 人 提 出 這 個 監 護 處 分 人 的 部 分 他 公 布 的 照 片 和 實 際 的 這 個 長 相 有 所 差 距 恐 怕 會 造 成 難 以 辨 認 那 法 務 部 這 邊 我 們 是 不 是 可 以 來 演 你 說 在 這 個 病 患 就 醫 的 過 程 裡 面 每 一 個 階 段 是 不 是 有 一 個 這 個 不 定 時 的 拍 照 的 這 個 動 作 來 存 檔 那 以 便 不 時 之 需 有 沒 有 可 能\n\n07:48.145 --> 08:11.974\n這 個 是 拍 照 這 部 分 是 有 會 涉 及 到 我 們 各 自 就 是 肖 像 權 的 一 個 問 題 那 這 部 分 我 們 再 來 研 議 是 不 是 可 以 設 計 一 個 可 行 性 的 方 式 因 為 這 個 法 制 上 是 不 是 可 以 有 辦 法 去 做 到 就 像 委 員 提 到 就 是 每 一 個 時 間 就 給 他 拍 一 張 那 個 存 檔 起 來 那 這 部 分 我 們 再 釋 法 性 我 們 再 來 研 究\n\n08:13.795 --> 08:28.007\n我 們 負 責 執 行 的 檢 察 官 平 時 業 務 已 經 都 非 常 繁 重 部 長 您 也 是 檢 察 官 出 身 可 能 有 相 關 的 經 驗 可 以 分 享\n\n08:28.567 --> 08:51.097\n那 依 據 法 務 部 的 資 料 來 看 這 個 每 年 我 們 在 監 護 處 分 執 行 的 個 案 大 概 是 2 0 0 名 那 在 保 安 處 分 執 行 法 第 4 8 條 裡 面 有 規 定 檢 察 官 對 於 受 監 護 處 分 之 人 與 指 揮 執 行 後 至 少 每 個 月 應 該 要 去 視 察 一 次 並 製 作 紀 錄 那 我 想 也 是 對 於 個 案 的 這 個 情 況 能 夠 隨 時 掌 握 的 必 要 措 施\n\n08:51.877 --> 09:15.392\n但 譬 如 像 這 個 上 次 的 這 個 基 隆 案 例 來 看 北 檢 的 這 個 檢 察 官 執 行 送 往 這 個 基 隆 機 構 那 現 在 又 將 這 個 病 患 最 後 送 到 現 在 是 送 到 高 雄 的 司 法 這 個 精 神 病 院 來 執 行 若 機 構 分 布 在 各 地 會 不 會 讓 檢 察 官 需 要 長 途 跋 涉 那 在 視 察 上 要 花 費 比 較 多 的 時 間\n\n09:17.393 --> 09:37.832\n這 個 問 題 我 們 會 不 會 有 什 麼 方 式 可 以 來 解 決 或 是 用 一 些 線 上 的 這 個 遠 距 離 的 方 式 來 處 理 可 以 嗎 這 部 分 我 們 再 來 研 究 不 過 我 們 到 目 前 為 止 我 們 是 要 求 就 是 檢 討 每 月 就 是 要 去 訪 視 一 次 那 以 後 精 神 病 房 它 是 分 布 在 北 部 南 東 那 精 神 醫 院 這 部 分 設 置 的\n\n09:38.713 --> 09:38.933\n陳 俊 宇 議 員\n\n10:03.624 --> 10:22.121\n在 這 個 我 們 司 法 精 神 病 院 方 面 我 想 請 教 部 長 一 下 就 是 我 們 目 前 好 像 有 在 規 劃 未 來 有 可 能 會 建 置 北 中 南 東 都 有 的 這 個 司 法 精 神 病 房 因 為 現 在 好 像 只 有 在 南 部 有 而 已 嘛 已 經 在 收 治 了 對 那 這 個 部 分\n\n10:22.882 --> 10:43.918\n比 如 說 未 來 有 可 能 在 東 部 的 哪 一 個 地 點 有 沒 有 可 能 這 部 分 我 們 就 不 方 便 沒 關 係 那 可 不 可 以 讓 我 知 道 說 我 們 設 置 這 個 司 法 精 神 病 房 的 它 的 設 置 的 這 個 要 件 要 符 合 到 什 麼 樣 的 條 件 才 有 可 能 在 那 個 點 來 設 置 有 沒 有 可 能\n\n10:46.079 --> 11:13.088\n這 個 部 分 會 後 再 給 我 一 份 資 料 啦 看 還 是 在 我 們 私 下 再 討 論 一 下 那 我 也 期 待 說 因 為 各 區 域 的 這 個 司 法 精 神 病 院 建 置 完 成 之 後 能 夠 妥 善 因 應 相 關 這 個 監 護 的 需 求 來 讓 我 們 這 個 相 關 的 病 患 有 一 個 比 較 好 而 且 比 較 方 便 的 一 個 照 顧 的 地 方 也 能 夠 期 待 他 們 在 這 個 照 顧 過 程 裡 面 他 們 身 體 的 健 康 狀 況 也 能 夠 慢 慢 的 獲 得 一 個 一 個 照 顧 跟 好 轉\n\n11:14.479 --> 11:17.970\n這 個 部 分 也 請 我 們 法 務 部 跟 衛 福 部 好 好 的 去 思 考 這 個 問 題 好 謝 謝 部 長 好 謝 謝 委 員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.309,"end":18.606,"text":"發言好 主席吳釗瑋我們請鄭部長好 麻煩鄭部長"},{"start":26.175,"end":52.514,"text":"好部長早委員好部長早在前兩週啦齁前兩週我們這個監護處分人從基隆這個某醫院脫逃的案例那在整個大台北地區流竄4天後落網短短幾天的時間我們也看到除了警力全力氣捕一時間大量的這個新聞報導情況之下也在網路上流竄了他的行蹤地點"},{"start":53.194,"end":78.608,"text":"那我想都讓民眾感到相當的恐慌那幸好最後在沒有發生情況的這個遺憾的情況之下成功將這個男子棄補歸案那今天特別感謝吳昭偉所排的這個專報不但是對於先前脫逃的這個事件做一個檢討也能夠對於我們日前暫行安置與監護處分制度的這個執行狀況來做一個詳加檢討"},{"start":81.69,"end":108.292,"text":"那我想不論是暫行安置還是監護處分都是為了要兼顧刑事和醫療的需求也是我們社會安全網重要的一環但在保障人權的前提之下應該還是要極力避免脫逃的這種狀況再發生那我想請教部長我們現在對於暫行安置或是監護處分在執行的過程中這種防逃的機制應該要如何來落實"},{"start":111.543,"end":132.711,"text":"這部分我們在規劃的時候我們在加強這個安全維護的設施跟人員的訓練這部分我們是會落實那我們在指定目前是司法精神醫院還沒有建置完成只有一個司法精神病房那我們目前的這些的"},{"start":133.951,"end":134.931,"text":"上次基隆那個應該是在放風的時候"},{"start":158.373,"end":158.593,"text":"陳俊宇議員"},{"start":177.301,"end":198.176,"text":"這也是提醒請我們法務部這邊就對於這方面應該做提升那我剛剛聽應該部長您也有想法那我希望應該要落實那我們從這個基隆的個案來看醫院是不是有違反這個保安處分的相關法規有嗎這部分的是"},{"start":198.916,"end":201.076,"text":"對於收容醫療機構的安全,我想這種外衣介護的部分請教部長。"},{"start":221.155,"end":221.215,"text":"委員好"},{"start":250.612,"end":275.98,"text":"那有關於那個介護人員我按照我們相關規定我們介護處所我們是得設介護人員對那現在如果沒有設的話我們另外也規定可以委由這個介護機構他去僱用相關的介護人員來進行介護僱用介護人員對可是如果以基隆的這一件基隆他那不是我們的他不是我們保安組份執行處所他是我們跟可是那也是契約委外的契約委外"},{"start":276.22,"end":276.941,"text":"對,我現在是說安全的問題"},{"start":296.938,"end":308.725,"text":"因為你如果有殺人未遂的你請一般的保全公司去接護這也蠻奇怪的所以在個案發生的時候他常常會請求地檢署來把法警接護就醫那另外"},{"start":309.758,"end":336.992,"text":"另外那次長您先請回那根據這個《精神衛生法》第52條第一項的規定在這個精神照護機構對於病患擅自離開機構時應該要通知家屬及保護人那病患行蹤不明時應即刻通知地方主管機關的警察機構來協助協詢但是我們就是剛剛講的部分在通報方面似乎是延誤了4個小時才通報"},{"start":337.992,"end":367.07,"text":"那這4個小時就足夠讓這個病患的行蹤難以追查那當時也造成這個基隆附近的這些縣市在學校方面都禁止這個訪客進入了嘛所以這個我想請教部長就是說在這個應急通知應該在多久的時間之內就要通知這第一個問題那第二個問題就是說收容機構和當地的警察機關之間通報的管道是否暢通"},{"start":369.669,"end":391.518,"text":"這發現的話我們是要求是即時通知即時通知即時即時馬上就要通報了都要通報所以沒有時間的限制沒有時間的那個好 那個我們目前的這個管道有沒有暢通跟警察機關目前這是這個是管道是這個通知的話我們是第一時間就會通報那個警方那地檢署也會通"},{"start":394.54,"end":422.528,"text":"跟委員報告目前各家醫院都跟在地的這個警察局其實都有保持聯絡所以就像剛剛部長講的這個應該當下病人不加離開就應該通知在地的警察單位以上可是這個部分我還是強調啦像基隆這個案子他雖然是委外契約的單位醫療機構我們還是要跟他們這個這個告知就是在通報上應該去適時的去檢討啦因為有時候他可能這個"},{"start":424.028,"end":438.163,"text":"主管更換或是怎樣會不會導致說這個病患在脫逃的時候沒有第一時間去通報所以才會衍生這個延誤通報的問題這個部分也請我們這個相關單位應該要重視那再來就是我們"},{"start":439.381,"end":466.889,"text":"這次的這個個案追捕當中有人提出這個監護處分人的部分他公布的照片和實際的這個長相有所差距恐怕會造成難以辨認那法務部這邊我們是不是可以來演你說在這個病患就醫的過程裡面每一個階段是不是有一個這個不定時的拍照的這個動作來存檔那以便不時之需有沒有可能"},{"start":468.145,"end":491.974,"text":"這個是拍照這部分是有會涉及到我們各自就是肖像權的一個問題那這部分我們再來研議是不是可以設計一個可行性的方式因為這個法制上是不是可以有辦法去做到就像委員提到就是每一個時間就給他拍一張那個存檔起來那這部分我們再釋法性我們再來研究"},{"start":493.795,"end":508.007,"text":"我們負責執行的檢察官平時業務已經都非常繁重部長您也是檢察官出身可能有相關的經驗可以分享"},{"start":508.567,"end":531.097,"text":"那依據法務部的資料來看這個每年我們在監護處分執行的個案大概是200名那在保安處分執行法第48條裡面有規定檢察官對於受監護處分之人與指揮執行後至少每個月應該要去視察一次並製作紀錄那我想也是對於個案的這個情況能夠隨時掌握的必要措施"},{"start":531.877,"end":555.392,"text":"但譬如像這個上次的這個基隆案例來看北檢的這個檢察官執行送往這個基隆機構那現在又將這個病患最後送到現在是送到高雄的司法這個精神病院來執行若機構分布在各地會不會讓檢察官需要長途跋涉那在視察上要花費比較多的時間"},{"start":557.393,"end":577.832,"text":"這個問題我們會不會有什麼方式可以來解決或是用一些線上的這個遠距離的方式來處理可以嗎這部分我們再來研究不過我們到目前為止我們是要求就是檢討每月就是要去訪視一次那以後精神病房它是分布在北部南東那精神醫院這部分設置的"},{"start":578.713,"end":578.933,"text":"陳俊宇議員"},{"start":603.624,"end":622.121,"text":"在這個我們司法精神病院方面我想請教部長一下就是我們目前好像有在規劃未來有可能會建置北中南東都有的這個司法精神病房因為現在好像只有在南部有而已嘛已經在收治了對那這個部分"},{"start":622.882,"end":643.918,"text":"比如說未來有可能在東部的哪一個地點有沒有可能這部分我們就不方便沒關係那可不可以讓我知道說我們設置這個司法精神病房的它的設置的這個要件要符合到什麼樣的條件才有可能在那個點來設置有沒有可能"},{"start":646.079,"end":673.088,"text":"這個部分會後再給我一份資料啦看還是在我們私下再討論一下那我也期待說因為各區域的這個司法精神病院建置完成之後能夠妥善因應相關這個監護的需求來讓我們這個相關的病患有一個比較好而且比較方便的一個照顧的地方也能夠期待他們在這個照顧過程裡面他們身體的健康狀況也能夠慢慢的獲得一個一個照顧跟好轉"},{"start":674.479,"end":677.97,"text":"這個部分也請我們法務部跟衛福部好好的去思考這個問題好 謝謝部長好 謝謝委員"}]}}}}