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10:50:11","影片長度":"00:08:32","會議時間":"2024-05-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽及經濟部次長列席就「展望全球核能發電趨勢，我國核電廠延役推動現況暨發展新型核能成為永續能源之規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【5月27日及29日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-29","duration":512,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-14"},"end_time":"2024-05-29T10:50:11+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-29T10:41:39+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":504,"blocks":[["吳委員沛憶：（10時41分）謝謝主席。我請核安會主委及經濟部次長。"],["主席：好，請主委跟次長。"],["陳主任委員東陽：吳委員好。"],["吳委員沛憶：謝謝。首先請教主委，大家都很關心的核一廠乾貯場終於在卡關了11年之後，在這個月5月10日，核一廠的乾貯水土保持計畫終於獲得了新北市政府審查的核定。接下來大家就關心核定之後到啟用中間，目前我們還需要進行哪些工作？"],["陳主任委員東陽：這個部分請台電說明，可以講得比較詳細。"],["吳委員沛憶：好。"],["許副總經理永輝：目前來講，只要新北市的逕流廢水核可以後，我們下個月就會進行邊坡的補強工作，預定大概3個月可以完成。完成以後，有所謂的冷測試跟熱測試都要做；整個測試完成以後，最後還要送核安會的安全審查這關，大概到明年去了。"],["吳委員沛憶：最後還要送到核安會做安全審查。"],["許副總經理永輝：是。"],["吳委員沛憶：核一廠在新北，雙北也是生活圈，我們委員會其實也有新北市的立委，我是臺北市的立委，安全是非常的重要。以剛剛這樣來估算，這個水土保持改善的工程要先進行，你說要做熱測試，然後是安全測試，可能有好幾種項目。"],["許副總經理永輝：對，是的。"],["吳委員沛憶：是不是還要邀請國際廠商來協助進行技轉？"],["許副總經理永輝：有，我們有請美國電力研究院的專家，包括在整個測試過程裡做第三方的查驗。"],["吳委員沛憶：已經開始在洽談了？"],["許副總經理永輝：對，已經在洽談了。"],["吳委員沛憶：整個預計的時間，有沒有一個初估的時程？"],["許副總經理永輝：我們希望在明年3月之前能夠送核安會審查，明年底希望把核一廠反應爐裡的燃料能夠移到乾貯設施。"],["吳委員沛憶：因為卡關了11年，終於有進展，但是安全還是最高的原則。"],["許副總經理永輝：一定、一定！"],["吳委員沛憶：所以請務必要秉持專業來進行安全的把關。"],["許副總經理永輝：是。"],["吳委員沛憶：再來一個問題，就是乾式貯存場也是階段性的，核廢料的最終處置場，剛剛前面葉元之委員也問過，目前看不出選址的地點。當然選址涉及到的還有民意和社會的共識，但是核廢料的最終處置場，我們有沒有持續進行評估？"],["許副總經理永輝：目前來講，先跟委員報告，核燃料的最終處置，其實不是光臺灣遇到這個問題。"],["吳委員沛憶：是。"],["許副總經理永輝：其實沒有一個縣市願意自願把這個設施設在自家這裡。目前來講，全世界確定的大概只有2個到3個國家：芬蘭、瑞典、法國；另外，截至到今天為止，沒有一個地方正式運轉，全球大概都會遇到這個問題。所以在這個部分，我們台電公司目前對外在做的，大概就是要加強整個國際合作，包括參與芬蘭的試運轉計畫。後面要同時進行的大概就是社會溝通這一塊，也包括立法。因為我們現在必須要有法源的依據，這也是外面公民團體跟台電公司還有經濟部目前在努力的工作。"],["吳委員沛憶：我為什麼問這個問題，請次長來回答？因為這牽涉到我們能源的政策，有句話說「沒有辦法解決核廢料，沒有資格談核電」，這句話是誰說的，你們知道嗎？我們新北市侯友宜市長！"],["林次長全能：我聽過。"],["吳委員沛憶：也就是說，社會上還有不少人對於核能的安全有很大的疑慮，因為核廢料最終處置場，如剛剛台電所回答，目前不是只有臺灣，大部分國家都找不到解決方式，所以請你們務必還是要秉持專業，持續來評估核廢料最終處置場。"],["林次長全能：是，我們一定秉持最專業的方式來最專業的處理。"],["吳委員沛憶：還要請教次長，你有沒有看到一個新聞，5月中的時候美國宣布對俄羅斯一項制裁，就是要禁止進口濃縮鈾，這是一種核燃料。你有沒有看到這個新聞？"],["林次長全能：跟委員坦誠，我沒看過這個新聞。"],["吳委員沛憶：好，你要再去了解。","美國為什麼提出這項制裁呢？因為他們擔心跟俄羅斯進口鈾，會成為俄羅斯進攻烏克蘭作軍事攻擊的資金，所以基於國安的考量，美國下了這個禁止進口令。美國過去高度仰賴俄羅斯進口鈾，比例高達24%，所以他們也開始要做進口替代，加強對美國本土鈾燃料生產的投資。包括英國的智庫皇家聯合軍事研究所也都指出，美國現在對俄羅斯進行進口鈾的制裁，很可能也會變成中國擴大鈾出口的機會。","今天的報告中，我們有討論到小型核電廠，小型核電廠所使用的濃縮鈾，過去只有一家俄羅斯的國營企業有生產，所以我看到美國這個資訊就相當關注。我想未來在評估時，你們要非常清楚了解能源政策，除了能源以外，因為牽涉到燃料的國際供應鏈，勢必也要考量國際的局勢，國際局勢變動，回頭過來有可能影響燃料供應的穩定性，所以國安及安全絕對也是你們要衡量的其中之一。所以請次長去進行了解。"],["林次長全能：是、好，我們會。"],["吳委員沛憶：最後我要請教，我們有一個RE100，企業界希望能夠實現承諾達到100%使用再生能源，臺灣很多廠商都有加入，包括台積電、宏碁、聯電等等。請問次長，RE100目前訂定的時間，希望什麼時候可以達成這個目標？"],["林次長全能：如果沒有記錯，應該是2030年。"],["吳委員沛憶：是。那在RE100裡面，再生能源的定義有沒有包括核電？"],["林次長全能：我想目前沒有。"],["吳委員沛憶：目前沒有嘛！"],["林次長全能：對。"],["吳委員沛憶：所以說對臺灣，尤其是台積電，大家很關注，因為臺灣這些廠商現在已經是國際市場當中非常關鍵重要的角色，他們會有很多國際的夥伴。他們跟這些國際夥伴在交易的時候，就牽涉到這些大廠的國際承諾，如果它沒有辦法達到，可能會影響它的訂單。請問這些臺灣的廠商有沒有向經濟部提出需求，讓他們能夠提高購買再生能源？"],["林次長全能：國內的這些科技業者，不僅僅是科技業者，很多傳統產業廠商都希望經濟部能擴大再生能源的開發跟供應，我想這是必然的，也是確定的。"],["吳委員沛憶：那我們怎麼提供協助呢？因為時間是2030年，最終要在2040年達到100%的目標，所以廠商必須逐年提升購買再生能源，目前我們怎麼協助臺灣的本土廠商？"],["林次長全能：依照我們現在所規劃的，把最成熟的光電還有離岸風電做最大的開發，另外我們也積極的納入像地熱跟生質能，作為現在潛力比較大的再生能源供應來源，希望盡最大的能力從開源端，就是供應端來提供。另外，綠電的交易，我們也建議一個比較完整的機制，提供這些相關企業購買它所需要的綠電。"],["吳委員沛憶：是，經濟部你們管能源，很重要，你們也管產業，所以務必要協助我們臺灣的廠商能夠進入國際市場，要持續提升供應他們再生能源的需求。次長繼續努力，好不好？"],["林次長全能：是、好，我們會努力。"],["吳委員沛憶：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝兩位。接下來請林宜瑾委員。","在林宜瑾委員質詢完畢之後，我們就休息5分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":396,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-14","speakers":["柯志恩","洪孟楷","葛如鈞","葉元之","洪申翰","陳秀寳","萬美玲","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","林宜瑾","張雅琳","范雲","羅廷瑋","張嘉郡","陳培瑜","張智倫","林倩綺","羅智強","吳春城","楊瓊瓔","翁曉玲"],"page_start":343,"meetingDate":["2024-05-29"],"gazette_id":"1135201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135201_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽及經濟部次長列席就「展望全球核能發電趨勢，我國核電廠\n延役推動現況暨發展新型核能成為永續能源之規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1135201_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"153231","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153231","tool":"pyannote","id":"153231-pyannote"},"job_id":"9jfjnnY6MEspSM9l","queued_at":"2024-05-30 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275.937, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 275.937, \"end\": 276.237, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"禁\", \"start\": 276.237, \"end\": 276.537, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"止\", \"start\": 276.537, \"end\": 277.058, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"口\", \"start\": 277.058, \"end\": 278.659, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": \"濃\"}, {\"word\": \"縮\"}, {\"word\": \"鈾\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 278.659, \"end\": 278.779, \"score\": 0.763}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 278.779, \"end\": 279.019, \"score\": 0.634}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"核\", \"start\": 279.019, \"end\": 279.26, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"燃\", \"start\": 279.26, \"end\": 279.46, \"score\": 0.713}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 279.46, \"end\": 279.64, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 279.64, \"end\": 279.74, \"score\": 0.747}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 279.74, \"end\": 279.76, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 279.76, \"end\": 279.78, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 279.78, \"end\": 279.88, \"score\": 0.524}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 279.88, \"end\": 279.98, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 279.98, \"end\": 280.06, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 280.06, \"end\": 280.08, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"聞\"}]}, {\"start\": 281.611, \"end\": 283.753, \"text\": \"跟委員很坦誠說我沒看過這個新聞好那這個你要再去了解那美國為什麼提出這項制裁呢因為他們擔心說跟俄羅斯進口又會成為這個俄羅斯進攻烏克蘭做軍事攻擊的這個資金所以基於國安的考量美國下了這個進口令\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 281.611, \"end\": 281.691, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 281.691, \"end\": 281.711, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 281.711, \"end\": 281.751, \"score\": 0.004}, {\"word\": \"坦\", \"start\": 281.751, \"end\": 281.771, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"誠\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 281.771, \"end\": 281.791, \"score\": 0.032}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 281.791, \"end\": 281.891, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 281.891, \"end\": 281.992, \"score\": 0.79}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 281.992, \"end\": 282.012, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"聞\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 282.012, \"end\": 282.032, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 282.032, \"end\": 282.052, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 282.052, \"end\": 282.072, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 282.072, \"end\": 282.092, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 282.092, \"end\": 282.172, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 282.172, \"end\": 282.192, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 282.192, \"end\": 282.212, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 282.212, \"end\": 282.252, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 282.252, \"end\": 282.272, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 282.272, \"end\": 282.372, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 282.372, \"end\": 282.392, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 282.392, \"end\": 282.412, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 282.412, \"end\": 282.432, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"項\"}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 282.432, \"end\": 282.492, \"score\": 0.663}, {\"word\": \"裁\", \"start\": 282.492, \"end\": 282.512, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 282.512, \"end\": 282.532, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 282.532, \"end\": 282.552, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 282.552, \"end\": 282.652, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"擔\"}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 282.652, \"end\": 282.712, \"score\": 0.526}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 282.712, \"end\": 282.732, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"俄\", \"start\": 282.732, \"end\": 282.792, \"score\": 0.665}, {\"word\": \"羅\"}, {\"word\": \"斯\", \"start\": 282.792, \"end\": 282.812, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"口\", \"start\": 282.812, \"end\": 282.832, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"又\", \"start\": 282.832, \"end\": 282.912, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 282.912, \"end\": 282.932, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"俄\", \"start\": 282.932, \"end\": 282.972, \"score\": 0.006}, {\"word\": \"羅\"}, {\"word\": \"斯\", \"start\": 282.972, \"end\": 282.992, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"攻\", \"start\": 282.992, \"end\": 283.092, \"score\": 0.618}, {\"word\": \"烏\"}, {\"word\": \"克\", \"start\": 283.092, \"end\": 283.112, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"蘭\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 283.112, \"end\": 283.132, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"軍\"}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 283.132, \"end\": 283.193, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"攻\", \"start\": 283.193, \"end\": 283.213, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"擊\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 283.213, \"end\": 283.273, \"score\": 0.191}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 283.273, \"end\": 283.293, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 283.293, \"end\": 283.373, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 283.373, \"end\": 283.393, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 283.393, \"end\": 283.413, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 283.413, \"end\": 283.433, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 283.433, \"end\": 283.513, \"score\": 0.742}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 283.513, \"end\": 283.533, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 283.533, \"end\": 283.553, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"量\", \"start\": 283.553, \"end\": 283.573, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 283.573, \"end\": 283.653, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 283.653, \"end\": 283.673, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 283.673, \"end\": 283.713, \"score\": 0.014}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"口\", \"start\": 283.713, \"end\": 283.733, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"令\", \"start\": 283.733, \"end\": 283.753, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 301.927, \"end\": 307.891, \"text\": \"美國過去呢他是高度的仰賴俄羅斯進口鈾比例高達了24%所以呢他們也開始在要做進口替代加強對美國本土鈾燃料生產的投資那包括英國的智庫皇家聯合軍事研究所也都指出美國現在對俄羅斯進行這一個進口鈾的制裁那很可能也會變成中國來擴大他鈾出口的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 301.927, \"end\": 302.528, \"score\": 0.557}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 302.528, \"end\": 302.748, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 302.748, \"end\": 302.948, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 302.948, \"end\": 303.128, \"score\": 0.682}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 303.128, \"end\": 303.288, \"score\": 0.593}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 303.288, \"end\": 303.468, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"智\", \"start\": 306.07, \"end\": 306.09, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"庫\"}, {\"word\": \"皇\", \"start\": 306.09, \"end\": 306.11, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 306.11, \"end\": 306.19, \"score\": 0.686}, {\"word\": \"聯\"}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 306.19, \"end\": 306.21, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"軍\"}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 306.21, \"end\": 306.23, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"研\", \"start\": 306.23, \"end\": 306.31, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"究\", \"start\": 306.31, \"end\": 306.33, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 306.33, \"end\": 306.35, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 306.35, \"end\": 306.37, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 306.37, \"end\": 306.39, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"指\", \"start\": 306.39, \"end\": 306.41, \"score\": 0.004}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 306.41, \"end\": 306.591, \"score\": 0.567}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 306.591, \"end\": 306.691, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 306.691, \"end\": 306.711, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"俄\", \"start\": 306.711, \"end\": 306.771, \"score\": 0.013}, {\"word\": \"羅\"}, {\"word\": \"斯\", \"start\": 306.771, \"end\": 306.791, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 306.791, \"end\": 306.811, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 306.811, \"end\": 307.031, \"score\": 0.718}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"口\", \"start\": 307.031, \"end\": 307.071, \"score\": 0.49}, {\"word\": \"鈾\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 307.071, \"end\": 307.471, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 307.471, \"end\": 307.491, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"裁\", \"start\": 307.491, \"end\": 307.551, \"score\": 0.649}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 307.551, \"end\": 307.571, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 307.571, \"end\": 307.591, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 307.591, \"end\": 307.611, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 307.611, \"end\": 307.631, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 307.631, \"end\": 307.711, \"score\": 0.658}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 307.711, \"end\": 307.731, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 307.731, \"end\": 307.751, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"擴\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 307.751, \"end\": 307.771, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 307.771, \"end\": 307.831, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"鈾\"}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 307.831, \"end\": 307.851, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"口\", \"start\": 307.851, \"end\": 307.871, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 307.871, \"end\": 307.891, \"score\": 0.001}]}, {\"start\": 326.824, \"end\": 344.128, \"text\": \"因為今天的報告當中我們有討論到小型核電廠過去小型核電廠所使用的濃縮鈾過去只有一家俄羅斯的國營企業有生產所以我看到美國這個資訊我就相當的關注那我想未來我們在評估當中你們要非常的清楚了解到能源政策除了能源以外因為你牽涉到這個燃料的國際供應鏈它勢必也要去考量國際的局勢\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 326.824, \"end\": 327.064, \"score\": 0.497}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 327.064, \"end\": 327.164, \"score\": 0.639}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 327.164, \"end\": 327.284, \"score\": 0.632}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 327.284, \"end\": 327.584, \"score\": 0.617}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 327.584, \"end\": 327.964, \"score\": 0.712}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 327.964, \"end\": 328.145, \"score\": 0.763}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 328.145, \"end\": 328.245, \"score\": 0.6}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 328.245, \"end\": 328.625, \"score\": 0.625}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 328.625, \"end\": 328.925, \"score\": 0.78}, {\"word\": \"小\", \"start\": 328.925, \"end\": 329.165, 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\"end\": 490.589, \"score\": 0.723}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 490.589, \"end\": 490.789, \"score\": 0.657}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 490.789, \"end\": 490.929, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 490.929, \"end\": 490.949, \"score\": 0.872}], \"language\": \"en\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,530 --> 00:00:13,950\n請 吳 沛 憶 委 員 謝 謝 主 席 我 請 核 安 會 主 委 及 經 濟 部 次 長 好 主 委 跟 次 長\n\n2\n00:00:18,012 --> 00:00:22,394\n我 首 先 先 請 教 主 委 因 為 大 家 都 很 關 心 的 核 一 廠 的 乾 除 那 終 於 呢 在 卡 關 了 1 1 年 之 後 在 這 個 月 5 月 1 0 號 那 我 們 核 一 廠 的 乾 除 水 土 保 持 計 畫 終 於 獲 得 了 新 北 市 政 府 審 查 的 核 定 那 接 下 來 大 家 就 關 心 啦 核 定 之 後 到 啟 用 中 間 目 前 我 們 還 需 要 進 行 哪 些 工 作\n\n3\n00:00:47,381 --> 00:00:49,463\n這 個 部 分 可 以 請 台 電 他 講 的 比 較 好 來 可 以 請 台 電\n\n4\n00:00:53,599 --> 00:01:20,556\n目 前 來 講 大 概 新 北 市 只 要 它 禁 流 廢 水 合 可 以 後 大 概 我 們 下 個 月 下 個 月 就 會 進 行 所 謂 邊 坡 的 一 個 補 強 的 一 個 工 作 大 概 就 那 預 定 我 們 大 概 三 個 月 可 以 完 成 完 成 以 後 大 概 有 所 謂 的 冷 測 試 跟 熱 測 試 都 要 做 所 以 整 個 的 測 試 完 成 以 後 然 後 還 要 送 最 後 的 核 安 會 的 安 全 審 查 這 些 塊 都 要 做 大 概 到 明 年 去 了\n\n5\n00:01:20,976 --> 00:01:40,767\n最 後 還 要 送 到 我 們 核 安 會 來 做 安 全 審 查 嘛 那 因 為 核 一 廠 在 新 北 雙 北 也 是 生 活 圈 那 本 會 呢 我 們 委 員 會 其 實 也 有 新 北 市 的 立 委 我 是 台 北 市 的 立 委 所 以 安 全 是 非 常 的 重 要 所 以 以 剛 剛 這 樣 來 估 算 我 們 這 個 水 土 保 持 改 善 的 工 程 要 先 進 行 你 之 後 要 做 熱 測 試 然 後 要 安 全 測 試 可 能 好 幾 種 項 目 那 我 們 是 不 是 還 有 要 邀 請 的 國 際 的 廠 商 來 協 助 進 行 計 轉\n\n6\n00:01:49,986 --> 00:02:01,310\n有 , 這 一 塊 來 講 我 們 有 一 個 所 謂 的 請 美 國 電 力 研 究 院 的 專 家 在 整 個 我 們 包 括 我 們 測 試 的 過 程 裡 面 他 做 第 三 方 的 這 個 查 驗 已 經 開 始 在 洽 談 了 對 , 已 經 在 洽 談 了 所 以 我 們 整 個 預 計 這 個 時 間 有 沒 有 一 個 初 估 的 時 程\n\n7\n00:02:08,553 --> 00:02:28,287\n預 計 大 概 我 們 希 望 在 明 年 3 月 之 前 能 夠 送 給 核 安 會 審 查 那 明 年 底 大 概 希 望 把 核 一 廠 裡 面 反 應 爐 裡 面 的 燃 料 能 夠 移 到 所 謂 的 乾 除 設 施 來 因 為 卡 關 了 1 1 年 我 們 終 於 有 一 個 進 展 但 是 安 全 還 是 最 高 的 原 則\n\n8\n00:02:28,787 --> 00:02:57,032\n所 以 請 務 必 要 秉 持 我 們 的 專 業 來 進 行 安 全 的 把 關 再 來 一 個 問 題 就 是 乾 式 儲 存 廠 它 也 是 階 段 性 的 我 們 的 最 終 核 廢 料 的 最 終 儲 置 廠 剛 剛 前 面 葉 元 之 委 員 也 問 過 了 目 前 看 不 出 選 址 有 沒 有 一 個 地 點 當 然 因 為 選 址 它 涉 及 到 的 還 有 民 意 跟 社 會 的 共 識 但 是 核 廢 料 的 最 終 儲 置 廠 我 們 有 沒 有 持 續 的 在 進 行 評 估\n\n9\n00:02:58,537 --> 00:03:19,976\n目 前 來 講 大 概 先 跟 委 員 報 告 就 是 說 荷 蘭 料 的 最 終 處 置 其 實 不 是 光 台 灣 遇 到 這 個 問 題 是 就 是 其 實 上 沒 有 一 個 縣 市 願 意 把 這 個 設 施 呢 志 願 說 我 在 這 裡 所 以 全 世 界 目 前 來 講 確 定 的 大 概 只 有 兩 個 到 三 個 國 家 是 芬 蘭 瑞 典 法 國 那\n\n10\n00:03:21,223 --> 00:03:44,473\n另 外 截 至 到 今 天 為 止 沒 有 一 個 地 方 正 式 在 運 轉 所 以 全 球 大 概 都 會 遇 到 這 個 問 題 那 所 以 在 這 部 分 來 講 我 們 台 電 公 司 目 前 對 外 在 做 大 概 就 是 要 加 強 整 個 國 際 合 作 包 括 參 與 芬 蘭 的 私 運 轉 計 畫 那 後 面 要 同 時 進 行 的 大 概 就 是 所 謂 社 會 溝 通 的 這 一 塊 也 包 括 立 法\n\n11\n00:03:44,893 --> 00:03:52,719\n因 為 我 們 現 在 必 須 要 有 一 個 法 源 的 依 據 這 也 是 外 面 公 民 團 體 跟 台 電 公 司 還 有 經 濟 部 目 前 在 努 力 的 工 作 我 為 什 麼 問 這 個 問 題 我 請 次 長 來 回 答 因 為 呢 這 牽 涉 到 我 們 能 源 的 政 策 有 一 句 話 說 沒 有 辦 法 解 決 核 廢 料 沒 有 資 格 談 核 電 這 句 話 是 誰 說 你 們 知 道 嗎 我 們 新 北 市 的 侯 友 宜 市 長\n\n12\n00:04:07,310 --> 00:04:10,613\n也 就 是 說 社 會 上 還 有 不 少 的 人 對 核 能 的 安 全 是 有 很 大 的 疑 慮 因 為 核 廢 料 如 剛 剛 台 電 所 回 答 最 終 處 置 場 我 們 目 前 不 是 只 有 台 灣 很 多 大 部 分 國 家 都 找 不 到 解 決 的 方 式 所 以 請 你 們 務 必 還 是 要 秉 持 專 業 持 續 來 評 估 我 們 核 廢 料 最 終 處 置 場 是 這 個 我 們 一 定 秉 持 最 專 業 的 方 式 來 做 是 然 後 我 要 請 教 次 長\n\n13\n00:04:29,912 --> 00:04:40,080\n你 有 沒 有 看 到 一 個 新 聞 是 5 月 中 的 時 候 美 國 宣 布 對 俄 羅 斯 有 一 項 制 裁 就 是 要 禁 止 進 口 濃 縮 鈾 這 是 一 個 核 燃 料 你 有 沒 有 看 到 這 個 新 聞\n\n14\n00:04:41,611 --> 00:04:43,753\n跟 委 員 很 坦 誠 說 我 沒 看 過 這 個 新 聞 好 那 這 個 你 要 再 去 了 解 那 美 國 為 什 麼 提 出 這 項 制 裁 呢 因 為 他 們 擔 心 說 跟 俄 羅 斯 進 口 又 會 成 為 這 個 俄 羅 斯 進 攻 烏 克 蘭 做 軍 事 攻 擊 的 這 個 資 金 所 以 基 於 國 安 的 考 量 美 國 下 了 這 個 進 口 令\n\n15\n00:05:01,927 --> 00:05:07,891\n美 國 過 去 呢 他 是 高 度 的 仰 賴 俄 羅 斯 進 口 鈾 比 例 高 達 了 2 4 % 所 以 呢 他 們 也 開 始 在 要 做 進 口 替 代 加 強 對 美 國 本 土 鈾 燃 料 生 產 的 投 資 那 包 括 英 國 的 智 庫 皇 家 聯 合 軍 事 研 究 所 也 都 指 出 美 國 現 在 對 俄 羅 斯 進 行 這 一 個 進 口 鈾 的 制 裁 那 很 可 能 也 會 變 成 中 國 來 擴 大 他 鈾 出 口 的\n\n16\n00:05:26,824 --> 00:05:44,128\n因 為 今 天 的 報 告 當 中 我 們 有 討 論 到 小 型 核 電 廠 過 去 小 型 核 電 廠 所 使 用 的 濃 縮 鈾 過 去 只 有 一 家 俄 羅 斯 的 國 營 企 業 有 生 產 所 以 我 看 到 美 國 這 個 資 訊 我 就 相 當 的 關 注 那 我 想 未 來 我 們 在 評 估 當 中 你 們 要 非 常 的 清 楚 了 解 到 能 源 政 策 除 了 能 源 以 外 因 為 你 牽 涉 到 這 個 燃 料 的 國 際 供 應 鏈 它 勢 必 也 要 去 考 量 國 際 的 局 勢\n\n17\n00:05:55,236 --> 00:06:07,365\n那 國 際 局 勢 的 變 動 他 回 頭 過 來 有 可 能 影 響 到 我 們 燃 料 供 應 的 穩 定 性 所 以 國 安 安 全 絕 對 也 是 你 們 要 衡 量 其 中 之 一 所 以 請 次 長 去 進 行 了 解 是 好 我 們 會 最 後 呢 我 要 這 個 請 教 的 是 我 們 有 一 個 R E 1 0 0\n\n18\n00:06:12,368 --> 00:06:24,854\n是 我 們 這 個 企 業 界 來 實 行 一 個 承 諾 希 望 能 夠 達 到 百 分 之 百 的 再 生 能 源 的 使 用 那 台 灣 我 們 有 很 多 廠 商 都 有 加 入 包 括 有 台 積 電 、 宏 基 、 聯 電 等 等 的 那 這 一 個 R E 1 0 0 次 長 他 的 目 前 訂 定 的 時 間 希 望 什 麼 時 候 可 以 達 成 這 個 目 標\n\n19\n00:06:33,507 --> 00:06:44,368\n如 果 沒 有 記 錯 應 該 2 0 3 0 年 是 那 在 再 生 R A 1 0 0 裡 面 它 的 再 生 能 源 的 定 義 有 沒 有 包 括 核 電 我 想 目 前 沒 有\n\n20\n00:06:45,768 --> 00:06:49,029\n對 我 們 現 在 台 灣 尤 其 是 台 積 電 大 家 很 關 注 因 為 我 們 台 灣 這 些 廠 商 現 在 已 經 國 際 市 場 當 中 非 常 關 鍵 重 要 的 角 色 所 以 他 們 會 有 很 多 國 際 的 夥 伴 所 以 他 們 跟 這 些 國 際 夥 伴 在 交 易 的 時 候 他 們 就 牽 涉 到\n\n21\n00:07:04,013 --> 00:07:04,033\n吳 沛 憶\n\n22\n00:07:19,371 --> 00:07:34,901\n這 些 國 內 的 科 技 業 者 不 僅 僅 是 科 技 業 者 很 多 的 傳 統 產 業 廠 商 都 希 望 經 濟 部 能 擴 大 再 生 能 源 的 一 個 開 發 跟 供 應 我 想 這 個 部 分 是 必 然 的 也 是 確 定 是 這 樣 子 的 那 我 們 怎 麼 提 供 協 助 呢 因 為 他 的 時 間 是 2 0 3 0 最 終 是 2 0 4 0 年 要 達 到 這 個 百 分 之 百 的 目 標 所 以 他 不 需 要 逐 年 來 提 升 他 購 買 再 生 能 源 嗎 目 前 我 們 怎 麼 協 助 台 灣 的 本 土 廠 商\n\n23\n00:07:45,447 --> 00:08:10,949\n是 我 想 我 們 就 是 這 個 依 照 我 們 現 在 所 規 劃 的 把 最 成 熟 的 這 個 光 電 還 有 這 個 離 岸 風 電 做 最 大 的 開 發 那 另 外 我 們 也 積 極 的 納 入 像 地 熱 跟 生 資 能 作 為 現 在 比 較 潛 力 大 的 一 個 再 生 能 源 的 供 應 的 來 源 那 希 望 說 盡 最 大 能 力 來 從 開 源 端 就 是 供 應 端 來 提 供 另 外 這 個 綠 電 的 那 個 這 個 交 易 我 們 也 建 立\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n530\t13950\t請吳沛憶委員謝謝主席我請核安會主委及經濟部次長好主委跟次長\n18012\t22394\t我首先先請教主委因為大家都很關心的核一廠的乾除那終於呢在卡關了11年之後在這個月5月10號那我們核一廠的乾除水土保持計畫終於獲得了新北市政府審查的核定那接下來大家就關心啦核定之後到啟用中間目前我們還需要進行哪些工作\n47381\t49463\t這個部分可以請台電他講的比較好來可以請台電\n53599\t80556\t目前來講大概新北市只要它禁流廢水合可以後大概我們下個月下個月就會進行所謂邊坡的一個補強的一個工作大概就那預定我們大概三個月可以完成完成以後大概有所謂的冷測試跟熱測試都要做所以整個的測試完成以後然後還要送最後的核安會的安全審查這些塊都要做大概到明年去了\n80976\t100767\t最後還要送到我們核安會來做安全審查嘛那因為核一廠在新北雙北也是生活圈那本會呢我們委員會其實也有新北市的立委我是台北市的立委所以安全是非常的重要所以以剛剛這樣來估算我們這個水土保持改善的工程要先進行你之後要做熱測試然後要安全測試可能好幾種項目那我們是不是還有要邀請的國際的廠商來協助進行計轉\n109986\t121310\t有,這一塊來講我們有一個所謂的請美國電力研究院的專家在整個我們包括我們測試的過程裡面他做第三方的這個查驗已經開始在洽談了對,已經在洽談了所以我們整個預計這個時間有沒有一個初估的時程\n128553\t148287\t預計大概我們希望在明年3月之前能夠送給核安會審查那明年底大概希望把核一廠裡面反應爐裡面的燃料能夠移到所謂的乾除設施來因為卡關了11年我們終於有一個進展但是安全還是最高的原則\n148787\t177032\t所以請務必要秉持我們的專業來進行安全的把關再來一個問題就是乾式儲存廠它也是階段性的我們的最終核廢料的最終儲置廠剛剛前面葉元之委員也問過了目前看不出選址有沒有一個地點當然因為選址它涉及到的還有民意跟社會的共識但是核廢料的最終儲置廠我們有沒有持續的在進行評估\n178537\t199976\t目前來講大概先跟委員報告就是說荷蘭料的最終處置其實不是光台灣遇到這個問題是就是其實上沒有一個縣市願意把這個設施呢志願說我在這裡所以全世界目前來講確定的大概只有兩個到三個國家是芬蘭瑞典法國那\n201223\t224473\t另外截至到今天為止沒有一個地方正式在運轉所以全球大概都會遇到這個問題那所以在這部分來講我們台電公司目前對外在做大概就是要加強整個國際合作包括參與芬蘭的私運轉計畫那後面要同時進行的大概就是所謂社會溝通的這一塊也包括立法\n224893\t232719\t因為我們現在必須要有一個法源的依據這也是外面公民團體跟台電公司還有經濟部目前在努力的工作我為什麼問這個問題我請次長來回答因為呢這牽涉到我們能源的政策有一句話說沒有辦法解決核廢料沒有資格談核電這句話是誰說你們知道嗎我們新北市的侯友宜市長\n247310\t250613\t也就是說社會上還有不少的人對核能的安全是有很大的疑慮因為核廢料如剛剛台電所回答最終處置場我們目前不是只有台灣很多大部分國家都找不到解決的方式所以請你們務必還是要秉持專業持續來評估我們核廢料最終處置場是 這個我們一定秉持最專業的方式來做是 然後我要請教次長\n269912\t280080\t你有沒有看到一個新聞是5月中的時候美國宣布對俄羅斯有一項制裁就是要禁止進口濃縮鈾這是一個核燃料你有沒有看到這個新聞\n281611\t283753\t跟委員很坦誠說我沒看過這個新聞好那這個你要再去了解那美國為什麼提出這項制裁呢因為他們擔心說跟俄羅斯進口又會成為這個俄羅斯進攻烏克蘭做軍事攻擊的這個資金所以基於國安的考量美國下了這個進口令\n301927\t307891\t美國過去呢他是高度的仰賴俄羅斯進口鈾比例高達了24%所以呢他們也開始在要做進口替代加強對美國本土鈾燃料生產的投資那包括英國的智庫皇家聯合軍事研究所也都指出美國現在對俄羅斯進行這一個進口鈾的制裁那很可能也會變成中國來擴大他鈾出口的\n326824\t344128\t因為今天的報告當中我們有討論到小型核電廠過去小型核電廠所使用的濃縮鈾過去只有一家俄羅斯的國營企業有生產所以我看到美國這個資訊我就相當的關注那我想未來我們在評估當中你們要非常的清楚了解到能源政策除了能源以外因為你牽涉到這個燃料的國際供應鏈它勢必也要去考量國際的局勢\n355236\t367365\t那國際局勢的變動他回頭過來有可能影響到我們燃料供應的穩定性所以國安安全絕對也是你們要衡量其中之一所以請次長去進行了解是好我們會最後呢我要這個請教的是我們有一個RE100\n372368\t384854\t是我們這個企業界來實行一個承諾希望能夠達到百分之百的再生能源的使用那台灣我們有很多廠商都有加入包括有台積電、宏基、聯電等等的那這一個RE100次長他的目前訂定的時間希望什麼時候可以達成這個目標\n393507\t404368\t如果沒有記錯應該2030年是 那在再生RA100裡面它的再生能源的定義有沒有包括核電我想目前沒有\n405768\t409029\t對我們現在台灣尤其是台積電大家很關注因為我們台灣這些廠商現在已經國際市場當中非常關鍵重要的角色所以他們會有很多國際的夥伴所以他們跟這些國際夥伴在交易的時候他們就牽涉到\n424013\t424033\t吳沛憶\n439371\t454901\t這些國內的科技業者不僅僅是科技業者很多的傳統產業廠商都希望經濟部能擴大再生能源的一個開發跟供應我想這個部分是必然的也是確定是這樣子的那我們怎麼提供協助呢因為他的時間是2030最終是2040年要達到這個百分之百的目標所以他不需要逐年來提升他購買再生能源嗎目前我們怎麼協助台灣的本土廠商\n465447\t490949\t是我想我們就是這個依照我們現在所規劃的把最成熟的這個光電還有這個離岸風電做最大的開發那另外我們也積極的納入像地熱跟生資能作為現在比較潛力大的一個再生能源的供應的來源那希望說盡最大能力來從開源端就是供應端來提供另外這個綠電的那個這個交易我們也建立\n491169\t512005\t﹗\n","txt":"請吳沛憶委員謝謝主席我請核安會主委及經濟部次長好主委跟次長\n我首先先請教主委因為大家都很關心的核一廠的乾除那終於呢在卡關了11年之後在這個月5月10號那我們核一廠的乾除水土保持計畫終於獲得了新北市政府審查的核定那接下來大家就關心啦核定之後到啟用中間目前我們還需要進行哪些工作\n這個部分可以請台電他講的比較好來可以請台電\n目前來講大概新北市只要它禁流廢水合可以後大概我們下個月下個月就會進行所謂邊坡的一個補強的一個工作大概就那預定我們大概三個月可以完成完成以後大概有所謂的冷測試跟熱測試都要做所以整個的測試完成以後然後還要送最後的核安會的安全審查這些塊都要做大概到明年去了\n最後還要送到我們核安會來做安全審查嘛那因為核一廠在新北雙北也是生活圈那本會呢我們委員會其實也有新北市的立委我是台北市的立委所以安全是非常的重要所以以剛剛這樣來估算我們這個水土保持改善的工程要先進行你之後要做熱測試然後要安全測試可能好幾種項目那我們是不是還有要邀請的國際的廠商來協助進行計轉\n有,這一塊來講我們有一個所謂的請美國電力研究院的專家在整個我們包括我們測試的過程裡面他做第三方的這個查驗已經開始在洽談了對,已經在洽談了所以我們整個預計這個時間有沒有一個初估的時程\n預計大概我們希望在明年3月之前能夠送給核安會審查那明年底大概希望把核一廠裡面反應爐裡面的燃料能夠移到所謂的乾除設施來因為卡關了11年我們終於有一個進展但是安全還是最高的原則\n所以請務必要秉持我們的專業來進行安全的把關再來一個問題就是乾式儲存廠它也是階段性的我們的最終核廢料的最終儲置廠剛剛前面葉元之委員也問過了目前看不出選址有沒有一個地點當然因為選址它涉及到的還有民意跟社會的共識但是核廢料的最終儲置廠我們有沒有持續的在進行評估\n目前來講大概先跟委員報告就是說荷蘭料的最終處置其實不是光台灣遇到這個問題是就是其實上沒有一個縣市願意把這個設施呢志願說我在這裡所以全世界目前來講確定的大概只有兩個到三個國家是芬蘭瑞典法國那\n另外截至到今天為止沒有一個地方正式在運轉所以全球大概都會遇到這個問題那所以在這部分來講我們台電公司目前對外在做大概就是要加強整個國際合作包括參與芬蘭的私運轉計畫那後面要同時進行的大概就是所謂社會溝通的這一塊也包括立法\n因為我們現在必須要有一個法源的依據這也是外面公民團體跟台電公司還有經濟部目前在努力的工作我為什麼問這個問題我請次長來回答因為呢這牽涉到我們能源的政策有一句話說沒有辦法解決核廢料沒有資格談核電這句話是誰說你們知道嗎我們新北市的侯友宜市長\n也就是說社會上還有不少的人對核能的安全是有很大的疑慮因為核廢料如剛剛台電所回答最終處置場我們目前不是只有台灣很多大部分國家都找不到解決的方式所以請你們務必還是要秉持專業持續來評估我們核廢料最終處置場是 這個我們一定秉持最專業的方式來做是 然後我要請教次長\n你有沒有看到一個新聞是5月中的時候美國宣布對俄羅斯有一項制裁就是要禁止進口濃縮鈾這是一個核燃料你有沒有看到這個新聞\n跟委員很坦誠說我沒看過這個新聞好那這個你要再去了解那美國為什麼提出這項制裁呢因為他們擔心說跟俄羅斯進口又會成為這個俄羅斯進攻烏克蘭做軍事攻擊的這個資金所以基於國安的考量美國下了這個進口令\n美國過去呢他是高度的仰賴俄羅斯進口鈾比例高達了24%所以呢他們也開始在要做進口替代加強對美國本土鈾燃料生產的投資那包括英國的智庫皇家聯合軍事研究所也都指出美國現在對俄羅斯進行這一個進口鈾的制裁那很可能也會變成中國來擴大他鈾出口的\n因為今天的報告當中我們有討論到小型核電廠過去小型核電廠所使用的濃縮鈾過去只有一家俄羅斯的國營企業有生產所以我看到美國這個資訊我就相當的關注那我想未來我們在評估當中你們要非常的清楚了解到能源政策除了能源以外因為你牽涉到這個燃料的國際供應鏈它勢必也要去考量國際的局勢\n那國際局勢的變動他回頭過來有可能影響到我們燃料供應的穩定性所以國安安全絕對也是你們要衡量其中之一所以請次長去進行了解是好我們會最後呢我要這個請教的是我們有一個RE100\n是我們這個企業界來實行一個承諾希望能夠達到百分之百的再生能源的使用那台灣我們有很多廠商都有加入包括有台積電、宏基、聯電等等的那這一個RE100次長他的目前訂定的時間希望什麼時候可以達成這個目標\n如果沒有記錯應該2030年是 那在再生RA100裡面它的再生能源的定義有沒有包括核電我想目前沒有\n對我們現在台灣尤其是台積電大家很關注因為我們台灣這些廠商現在已經國際市場當中非常關鍵重要的角色所以他們會有很多國際的夥伴所以他們跟這些國際夥伴在交易的時候他們就牽涉到\n吳沛憶\n這些國內的科技業者不僅僅是科技業者很多的傳統產業廠商都希望經濟部能擴大再生能源的一個開發跟供應我想這個部分是必然的也是確定是這樣子的那我們怎麼提供協助呢因為他的時間是2030最終是2040年要達到這個百分之百的目標所以他不需要逐年來提升他購買再生能源嗎目前我們怎麼協助台灣的本土廠商\n是我想我們就是這個依照我們現在所規劃的把最成熟的這個光電還有這個離岸風電做最大的開發那另外我們也積極的納入像地熱跟生資能作為現在比較潛力大的一個再生能源的供應的來源那希望說盡最大能力來從開源端就是供應端來提供另外這個綠電的那個這個交易我們也建立\n﹗\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.530 --> 00:13.950\n請 吳 沛 憶 委 員 謝 謝 主 席 我 請 核 安 會 主 委 及 經 濟 部 次 長 好 主 委 跟 次 長\n\n00:18.012 --> 00:22.394\n我 首 先 先 請 教 主 委 因 為 大 家 都 很 關 心 的 核 一 廠 的 乾 除 那 終 於 呢 在 卡 關 了 1 1 年 之 後 在 這 個 月 5 月 1 0 號 那 我 們 核 一 廠 的 乾 除 水 土 保 持 計 畫 終 於 獲 得 了 新 北 市 政 府 審 查 的 核 定 那 接 下 來 大 家 就 關 心 啦 核 定 之 後 到 啟 用 中 間 目 前 我 們 還 需 要 進 行 哪 些 工 作\n\n00:47.381 --> 00:49.463\n這 個 部 分 可 以 請 台 電 他 講 的 比 較 好 來 可 以 請 台 電\n\n00:53.599 --> 01:20.556\n目 前 來 講 大 概 新 北 市 只 要 它 禁 流 廢 水 合 可 以 後 大 概 我 們 下 個 月 下 個 月 就 會 進 行 所 謂 邊 坡 的 一 個 補 強 的 一 個 工 作 大 概 就 那 預 定 我 們 大 概 三 個 月 可 以 完 成 完 成 以 後 大 概 有 所 謂 的 冷 測 試 跟 熱 測 試 都 要 做 所 以 整 個 的 測 試 完 成 以 後 然 後 還 要 送 最 後 的 核 安 會 的 安 全 審 查 這 些 塊 都 要 做 大 概 到 明 年 去 了\n\n01:20.976 --> 01:40.767\n最 後 還 要 送 到 我 們 核 安 會 來 做 安 全 審 查 嘛 那 因 為 核 一 廠 在 新 北 雙 北 也 是 生 活 圈 那 本 會 呢 我 們 委 員 會 其 實 也 有 新 北 市 的 立 委 我 是 台 北 市 的 立 委 所 以 安 全 是 非 常 的 重 要 所 以 以 剛 剛 這 樣 來 估 算 我 們 這 個 水 土 保 持 改 善 的 工 程 要 先 進 行 你 之 後 要 做 熱 測 試 然 後 要 安 全 測 試 可 能 好 幾 種 項 目 那 我 們 是 不 是 還 有 要 邀 請 的 國 際 的 廠 商 來 協 助 進 行 計 轉\n\n01:49.986 --> 02:01.310\n有 , 這 一 塊 來 講 我 們 有 一 個 所 謂 的 請 美 國 電 力 研 究 院 的 專 家 在 整 個 我 們 包 括 我 們 測 試 的 過 程 裡 面 他 做 第 三 方 的 這 個 查 驗 已 經 開 始 在 洽 談 了 對 , 已 經 在 洽 談 了 所 以 我 們 整 個 預 計 這 個 時 間 有 沒 有 一 個 初 估 的 時 程\n\n02:08.553 --> 02:28.287\n預 計 大 概 我 們 希 望 在 明 年 3 月 之 前 能 夠 送 給 核 安 會 審 查 那 明 年 底 大 概 希 望 把 核 一 廠 裡 面 反 應 爐 裡 面 的 燃 料 能 夠 移 到 所 謂 的 乾 除 設 施 來 因 為 卡 關 了 1 1 年 我 們 終 於 有 一 個 進 展 但 是 安 全 還 是 最 高 的 原 則\n\n02:28.787 --> 02:57.032\n所 以 請 務 必 要 秉 持 我 們 的 專 業 來 進 行 安 全 的 把 關 再 來 一 個 問 題 就 是 乾 式 儲 存 廠 它 也 是 階 段 性 的 我 們 的 最 終 核 廢 料 的 最 終 儲 置 廠 剛 剛 前 面 葉 元 之 委 員 也 問 過 了 目 前 看 不 出 選 址 有 沒 有 一 個 地 點 當 然 因 為 選 址 它 涉 及 到 的 還 有 民 意 跟 社 會 的 共 識 但 是 核 廢 料 的 最 終 儲 置 廠 我 們 有 沒 有 持 續 的 在 進 行 評 估\n\n02:58.537 --> 03:19.976\n目 前 來 講 大 概 先 跟 委 員 報 告 就 是 說 荷 蘭 料 的 最 終 處 置 其 實 不 是 光 台 灣 遇 到 這 個 問 題 是 就 是 其 實 上 沒 有 一 個 縣 市 願 意 把 這 個 設 施 呢 志 願 說 我 在 這 裡 所 以 全 世 界 目 前 來 講 確 定 的 大 概 只 有 兩 個 到 三 個 國 家 是 芬 蘭 瑞 典 法 國 那\n\n03:21.223 --> 03:44.473\n另 外 截 至 到 今 天 為 止 沒 有 一 個 地 方 正 式 在 運 轉 所 以 全 球 大 概 都 會 遇 到 這 個 問 題 那 所 以 在 這 部 分 來 講 我 們 台 電 公 司 目 前 對 外 在 做 大 概 就 是 要 加 強 整 個 國 際 合 作 包 括 參 與 芬 蘭 的 私 運 轉 計 畫 那 後 面 要 同 時 進 行 的 大 概 就 是 所 謂 社 會 溝 通 的 這 一 塊 也 包 括 立 法\n\n03:44.893 --> 03:52.719\n因 為 我 們 現 在 必 須 要 有 一 個 法 源 的 依 據 這 也 是 外 面 公 民 團 體 跟 台 電 公 司 還 有 經 濟 部 目 前 在 努 力 的 工 作 我 為 什 麼 問 這 個 問 題 我 請 次 長 來 回 答 因 為 呢 這 牽 涉 到 我 們 能 源 的 政 策 有 一 句 話 說 沒 有 辦 法 解 決 核 廢 料 沒 有 資 格 談 核 電 這 句 話 是 誰 說 你 們 知 道 嗎 我 們 新 北 市 的 侯 友 宜 市 長\n\n04:07.310 --> 04:10.613\n也 就 是 說 社 會 上 還 有 不 少 的 人 對 核 能 的 安 全 是 有 很 大 的 疑 慮 因 為 核 廢 料 如 剛 剛 台 電 所 回 答 最 終 處 置 場 我 們 目 前 不 是 只 有 台 灣 很 多 大 部 分 國 家 都 找 不 到 解 決 的 方 式 所 以 請 你 們 務 必 還 是 要 秉 持 專 業 持 續 來 評 估 我 們 核 廢 料 最 終 處 置 場 是 這 個 我 們 一 定 秉 持 最 專 業 的 方 式 來 做 是 然 後 我 要 請 教 次 長\n\n04:29.912 --> 04:40.080\n你 有 沒 有 看 到 一 個 新 聞 是 5 月 中 的 時 候 美 國 宣 布 對 俄 羅 斯 有 一 項 制 裁 就 是 要 禁 止 進 口 濃 縮 鈾 這 是 一 個 核 燃 料 你 有 沒 有 看 到 這 個 新 聞\n\n04:41.611 --> 04:43.753\n跟 委 員 很 坦 誠 說 我 沒 看 過 這 個 新 聞 好 那 這 個 你 要 再 去 了 解 那 美 國 為 什 麼 提 出 這 項 制 裁 呢 因 為 他 們 擔 心 說 跟 俄 羅 斯 進 口 又 會 成 為 這 個 俄 羅 斯 進 攻 烏 克 蘭 做 軍 事 攻 擊 的 這 個 資 金 所 以 基 於 國 安 的 考 量 美 國 下 了 這 個 進 口 令\n\n05:01.927 --> 05:07.891\n美 國 過 去 呢 他 是 高 度 的 仰 賴 俄 羅 斯 進 口 鈾 比 例 高 達 了 2 4 % 所 以 呢 他 們 也 開 始 在 要 做 進 口 替 代 加 強 對 美 國 本 土 鈾 燃 料 生 產 的 投 資 那 包 括 英 國 的 智 庫 皇 家 聯 合 軍 事 研 究 所 也 都 指 出 美 國 現 在 對 俄 羅 斯 進 行 這 一 個 進 口 鈾 的 制 裁 那 很 可 能 也 會 變 成 中 國 來 擴 大 他 鈾 出 口 的\n\n05:26.824 --> 05:44.128\n因 為 今 天 的 報 告 當 中 我 們 有 討 論 到 小 型 核 電 廠 過 去 小 型 核 電 廠 所 使 用 的 濃 縮 鈾 過 去 只 有 一 家 俄 羅 斯 的 國 營 企 業 有 生 產 所 以 我 看 到 美 國 這 個 資 訊 我 就 相 當 的 關 注 那 我 想 未 來 我 們 在 評 估 當 中 你 們 要 非 常 的 清 楚 了 解 到 能 源 政 策 除 了 能 源 以 外 因 為 你 牽 涉 到 這 個 燃 料 的 國 際 供 應 鏈 它 勢 必 也 要 去 考 量 國 際 的 局 勢\n\n05:55.236 --> 06:07.365\n那 國 際 局 勢 的 變 動 他 回 頭 過 來 有 可 能 影 響 到 我 們 燃 料 供 應 的 穩 定 性 所 以 國 安 安 全 絕 對 也 是 你 們 要 衡 量 其 中 之 一 所 以 請 次 長 去 進 行 了 解 是 好 我 們 會 最 後 呢 我 要 這 個 請 教 的 是 我 們 有 一 個 R E 1 0 0\n\n06:12.368 --> 06:24.854\n是 我 們 這 個 企 業 界 來 實 行 一 個 承 諾 希 望 能 夠 達 到 百 分 之 百 的 再 生 能 源 的 使 用 那 台 灣 我 們 有 很 多 廠 商 都 有 加 入 包 括 有 台 積 電 、 宏 基 、 聯 電 等 等 的 那 這 一 個 R E 1 0 0 次 長 他 的 目 前 訂 定 的 時 間 希 望 什 麼 時 候 可 以 達 成 這 個 目 標\n\n06:33.507 --> 06:44.368\n如 果 沒 有 記 錯 應 該 2 0 3 0 年 是 那 在 再 生 R A 1 0 0 裡 面 它 的 再 生 能 源 的 定 義 有 沒 有 包 括 核 電 我 想 目 前 沒 有\n\n06:45.768 --> 06:49.029\n對 我 們 現 在 台 灣 尤 其 是 台 積 電 大 家 很 關 注 因 為 我 們 台 灣 這 些 廠 商 現 在 已 經 國 際 市 場 當 中 非 常 關 鍵 重 要 的 角 色 所 以 他 們 會 有 很 多 國 際 的 夥 伴 所 以 他 們 跟 這 些 國 際 夥 伴 在 交 易 的 時 候 他 們 就 牽 涉 到\n\n07:04.013 --> 07:04.033\n吳 沛 憶\n\n07:19.371 --> 07:34.901\n這 些 國 內 的 科 技 業 者 不 僅 僅 是 科 技 業 者 很 多 的 傳 統 產 業 廠 商 都 希 望 經 濟 部 能 擴 大 再 生 能 源 的 一 個 開 發 跟 供 應 我 想 這 個 部 分 是 必 然 的 也 是 確 定 是 這 樣 子 的 那 我 們 怎 麼 提 供 協 助 呢 因 為 他 的 時 間 是 2 0 3 0 最 終 是 2 0 4 0 年 要 達 到 這 個 百 分 之 百 的 目 標 所 以 他 不 需 要 逐 年 來 提 升 他 購 買 再 生 能 源 嗎 目 前 我 們 怎 麼 協 助 台 灣 的 本 土 廠 商\n\n07:45.447 --> 08:10.949\n是 我 想 我 們 就 是 這 個 依 照 我 們 現 在 所 規 劃 的 把 最 成 熟 的 這 個 光 電 還 有 這 個 離 岸 風 電 做 最 大 的 開 發 那 另 外 我 們 也 積 極 的 納 入 像 地 熱 跟 生 資 能 作 為 現 在 比 較 潛 力 大 的 一 個 再 生 能 源 的 供 應 的 來 源 那 希 望 說 盡 最 大 能 力 來 從 開 源 端 就 是 供 應 端 來 提 供 另 外 這 個 綠 電 的 那 個 這 個 交 易 我 們 也 建 立\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.53,"end":13.95,"text":"請吳沛憶委員謝謝主席我請核安會主委及經濟部次長好主委跟次長"},{"start":18.012,"end":22.394,"text":"我首先先請教主委因為大家都很關心的核一廠的乾除那終於呢在卡關了11年之後在這個月5月10號那我們核一廠的乾除水土保持計畫終於獲得了新北市政府審查的核定那接下來大家就關心啦核定之後到啟用中間目前我們還需要進行哪些工作"},{"start":47.381,"end":49.463,"text":"這個部分可以請台電他講的比較好來可以請台電"},{"start":53.599,"end":80.556,"text":"目前來講大概新北市只要它禁流廢水合可以後大概我們下個月下個月就會進行所謂邊坡的一個補強的一個工作大概就那預定我們大概三個月可以完成完成以後大概有所謂的冷測試跟熱測試都要做所以整個的測試完成以後然後還要送最後的核安會的安全審查這些塊都要做大概到明年去了"},{"start":80.976,"end":100.767,"text":"最後還要送到我們核安會來做安全審查嘛那因為核一廠在新北雙北也是生活圈那本會呢我們委員會其實也有新北市的立委我是台北市的立委所以安全是非常的重要所以以剛剛這樣來估算我們這個水土保持改善的工程要先進行你之後要做熱測試然後要安全測試可能好幾種項目那我們是不是還有要邀請的國際的廠商來協助進行計轉"},{"start":109.986,"end":121.31,"text":"有,這一塊來講我們有一個所謂的請美國電力研究院的專家在整個我們包括我們測試的過程裡面他做第三方的這個查驗已經開始在洽談了對,已經在洽談了所以我們整個預計這個時間有沒有一個初估的時程"},{"start":128.553,"end":148.287,"text":"預計大概我們希望在明年3月之前能夠送給核安會審查那明年底大概希望把核一廠裡面反應爐裡面的燃料能夠移到所謂的乾除設施來因為卡關了11年我們終於有一個進展但是安全還是最高的原則"},{"start":148.787,"end":177.032,"text":"所以請務必要秉持我們的專業來進行安全的把關再來一個問題就是乾式儲存廠它也是階段性的我們的最終核廢料的最終儲置廠剛剛前面葉元之委員也問過了目前看不出選址有沒有一個地點當然因為選址它涉及到的還有民意跟社會的共識但是核廢料的最終儲置廠我們有沒有持續的在進行評估"},{"start":178.537,"end":199.976,"text":"目前來講大概先跟委員報告就是說荷蘭料的最終處置其實不是光台灣遇到這個問題是就是其實上沒有一個縣市願意把這個設施呢志願說我在這裡所以全世界目前來講確定的大概只有兩個到三個國家是芬蘭瑞典法國那"},{"start":201.223,"end":224.473,"text":"另外截至到今天為止沒有一個地方正式在運轉所以全球大概都會遇到這個問題那所以在這部分來講我們台電公司目前對外在做大概就是要加強整個國際合作包括參與芬蘭的私運轉計畫那後面要同時進行的大概就是所謂社會溝通的這一塊也包括立法"},{"start":224.893,"end":232.719,"text":"因為我們現在必須要有一個法源的依據這也是外面公民團體跟台電公司還有經濟部目前在努力的工作我為什麼問這個問題我請次長來回答因為呢這牽涉到我們能源的政策有一句話說沒有辦法解決核廢料沒有資格談核電這句話是誰說你們知道嗎我們新北市的侯友宜市長"},{"start":247.31,"end":250.613,"text":"也就是說社會上還有不少的人對核能的安全是有很大的疑慮因為核廢料如剛剛台電所回答最終處置場我們目前不是只有台灣很多大部分國家都找不到解決的方式所以請你們務必還是要秉持專業持續來評估我們核廢料最終處置場是 這個我們一定秉持最專業的方式來做是 然後我要請教次長"},{"start":269.912,"end":280.08,"text":"你有沒有看到一個新聞是5月中的時候美國宣布對俄羅斯有一項制裁就是要禁止進口濃縮鈾這是一個核燃料你有沒有看到這個新聞"},{"start":281.611,"end":283.753,"text":"跟委員很坦誠說我沒看過這個新聞好那這個你要再去了解那美國為什麼提出這項制裁呢因為他們擔心說跟俄羅斯進口又會成為這個俄羅斯進攻烏克蘭做軍事攻擊的這個資金所以基於國安的考量美國下了這個進口令"},{"start":301.927,"end":307.891,"text":"美國過去呢他是高度的仰賴俄羅斯進口鈾比例高達了24%所以呢他們也開始在要做進口替代加強對美國本土鈾燃料生產的投資那包括英國的智庫皇家聯合軍事研究所也都指出美國現在對俄羅斯進行這一個進口鈾的制裁那很可能也會變成中國來擴大他鈾出口的"},{"start":326.824,"end":344.128,"text":"因為今天的報告當中我們有討論到小型核電廠過去小型核電廠所使用的濃縮鈾過去只有一家俄羅斯的國營企業有生產所以我看到美國這個資訊我就相當的關注那我想未來我們在評估當中你們要非常的清楚了解到能源政策除了能源以外因為你牽涉到這個燃料的國際供應鏈它勢必也要去考量國際的局勢"},{"start":355.236,"end":367.365,"text":"那國際局勢的變動他回頭過來有可能影響到我們燃料供應的穩定性所以國安安全絕對也是你們要衡量其中之一所以請次長去進行了解是好我們會最後呢我要這個請教的是我們有一個RE100"},{"start":372.368,"end":384.854,"text":"是我們這個企業界來實行一個承諾希望能夠達到百分之百的再生能源的使用那台灣我們有很多廠商都有加入包括有台積電、宏基、聯電等等的那這一個RE100次長他的目前訂定的時間希望什麼時候可以達成這個目標"},{"start":393.507,"end":404.368,"text":"如果沒有記錯應該2030年是 那在再生RA100裡面它的再生能源的定義有沒有包括核電我想目前沒有"},{"start":405.768,"end":409.029,"text":"對我們現在台灣尤其是台積電大家很關注因為我們台灣這些廠商現在已經國際市場當中非常關鍵重要的角色所以他們會有很多國際的夥伴所以他們跟這些國際夥伴在交易的時候他們就牽涉到"},{"start":424.013,"end":424.033,"text":"吳沛憶"},{"start":439.371,"end":454.901,"text":"這些國內的科技業者不僅僅是科技業者很多的傳統產業廠商都希望經濟部能擴大再生能源的一個開發跟供應我想這個部分是必然的也是確定是這樣子的那我們怎麼提供協助呢因為他的時間是2030最終是2040年要達到這個百分之百的目標所以他不需要逐年來提升他購買再生能源嗎目前我們怎麼協助台灣的本土廠商"},{"start":465.447,"end":490.949,"text":"是我想我們就是這個依照我們現在所規劃的把最成熟的這個光電還有這個離岸風電做最大的開發那另外我們也積極的納入像地熱跟生資能作為現在比較潛力大的一個再生能源的供應的來源那希望說盡最大能力來從開源端就是供應端來提供另外這個綠電的那個這個交易我們也建立"},{"start":491.169,"end":512.005,"text":"﹗"}]}}}}