{"id":153251,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153251","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/2c978e04ca5e1331507cf8894eb89667d0e137800dc086eaa3ee6acdf2d5e9878d06424a4f6aa0185ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅廷瑋","委員發言時間":"11:23:57 - 11:33:45","影片長度":"00:09:48","會議時間":"2024-05-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽及經濟部次長列席就「展望全球核能發電趨勢，我國核電廠延役推動現況暨發展新型核能成為永續能源之規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【5月27日及29日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-29","duration":588,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-14"},"end_time":"2024-05-29T11:33:45+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-29T11:23:57+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":686,"blocks":[["羅委員廷瑋：（11時24分）謝謝主席。請邀請陳主委，還有經濟部林次長。"],["主席：好，我們請主委跟次長。"],["陳主任委員東陽：羅委員好。"],["林次長全能：委員好。"],["羅委員廷瑋：主委、次長，謝謝。我想大家都很關心核能，剛剛也有討論到所謂核廢料的處置，但我還是要講另外一個層面的問題，現階段就兩位知道的，國人現在所謂的十大癌症大概是哪幾個癌症？大概就好，沒關係，這沒有要考試。"],["林次長全能：我想胃癌、大腸癌、肺腺癌這些，可能都是我們現在……"],["羅委員廷瑋：前三名有肺癌，大家都認同。很多人都知道，平均每兩個人就有一個人肺癌，發現的時候幾乎都是晚期，尤其是肺腺癌，我自己也有親友得過肺腺癌。近年來抽菸人口不斷下降，但肺癌的罹患率並沒有降低，這個是有相關數據支撐，有多數被發現的肺癌患者是不抽菸的，那我們就很納悶，沒有抽菸，可能有基因問題；沒有基因問題，也有可能是所謂的空氣污染問題，所以針對臺中在面對火力全開的中火，我們更想要探討，是不是有相關配套方式可以舒緩現階段臺中的困境、中部五縣市的困境，亦即空氣污染的一個困境？","根據經濟部2021年結算的資料，臺灣電力83%來自於火力發電，其中燃料以天然氣、燃煤為主，燃煤占火力發電的比率，2021年占53%，燃氣供電占45%，換算下來，臺灣發電約37%依賴天然氣。臺灣天然氣主要來源國是卡達、印尼、馬來西亞，但臺灣是海島型國家，如果遇到颱風侵襲導致船期延誤，甚至是最近中國大陸開始進行的軍演，我們非常嚴厲的譴責，我們不想要看到這樣的狀況一再發生。當然，作為民意代表，我們只能譴責，我們更呼籲國防部要捍衛中華民國，但是我想請問一下，目前天然氣大概只有10到14天的安全存量，未來假設遇到天然氣被封鎖，怎麼辦？目前有沒有準備備援措施？"],["林次長全能：我們現在有訂定安全存量，目前是11天，但是未來還會再增加到14天。"],["羅委員廷瑋：對，就是我剛剛講的10到14天。"],["林次長全能：是，就是我們現在要增加安全存量，也在提升現在的接收站跟儲槽能量，讓儲存量可以到……"],["羅委員廷瑋：對，讓儲存能量從10到14天變成10到18天，或者是10到20天，這是你們的目標，對吧？"],["林次長全能：呃，當然提高安全存量是一件事情，另外一件事情就是我們必須尋找綠色通道，能夠在緊急、危急的時候有適當的部分來做相關輸運。"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以你是說綠能補上，是嗎？"],["林次長全能：呃，如果以2050淨零碳排的發展來看，未來2050的再生能源占比會到60%-70%，確實是會增加我們綠能的發展。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，看起來就是沒有很具體的備援措施，因為不管10到14天或是10到20天，如果天然氣被封鎖到將近20天，我們還是無解，我想這個問題絕對不是我第一次詢問，也不是我這個立法委員的發現，很多立委都關心這個問題，我想經濟部應該要好好考量。","淨零碳排是我國最重要的一個政策，目前因俄烏戰爭導致天然氣供需失衡，許多國家包括美、英、日、加拿大等紛紛考慮重啟核電，國際將綠能政策分為兩塊，一個是再生能源搭配天然氣，另一個是可再生能源搭配核電。國際能源總署也指出，為達成全球淨零碳排，未來20年核電的規模將擴大接近一倍，以上的數據對吧？你有掌握到這樣的數據嗎？"],["林次長全能：我剛剛在報告裡有提到，未來核電占比在2031年到2050年大概是10%跟8%左右，委員的資訊，我想我們會再做更進一步的掌握。"],["羅委員廷瑋：相關媒體的報導我們僅供參考，但是教學相長，我們希望的就是臺灣更好，但是我想前面很多委員應該都有問過，你們有沒有重新評估臺灣能源政策的配比？這是最重要的一個議題，但我沒有要你現在馬上回答我，好好的考量。國際對反核的態度突然轉變，可以從阿聯酋共識中看到各國對核能的清楚表態，阿聯酋共識提到加速零碳排及低碳排的技術，包含再生能源、核能、碳減少的移除科技，如碳捕捉、利用及封存，另外包括我們的一些單位也在研究低碳氫能的生產用於能源系統中，加大力度取代碳排的化石燃料。核安會主委有聽出端倪嗎？"],["陳主任委員東陽：是的。"],["羅委員廷瑋：有嗎？加速零碳排及低碳排的技術，其中包含的就是核能。另外，芬蘭的氣候環境部長在這一次的會議中也有提到，如果要讓地球增溫控制在1.5℃以內，不提升核能的地位是做不到的，你認同他這句話嗎？"],["陳主任委員東陽：跟委員說明，我的報告裡其實有詳述這兩個區塊的一些論述，針對各個能源，各個國家都有自身的考量，這個部分我想是國家的能源政策，它是一種選擇。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我想每一個能源政策都有它的利與弊，但是我們不要輕重於任何一個能源，這應該是你可以認同的吧？就是各個能源都要有一些相關部署，雞蛋不要放在同一個籃子。","另外，22個大國，包括美、日、韓都簽署了2050年前增加核能到三倍，請問主委，臺灣的政策，目前還在非核家園嗎？依照國際局勢，臺灣現在要如何非核？淨零碳排又該如何完成？主委、經濟部次長，請問能夠回答嗎？"],["林次長全能：事實上，既然有相關規範，我們就必須按照規範處理，至於未來2050年的淨零碳排，我們也做好相關努力的藍圖，我剛剛也提到，未來2050的時候，我們希望做到再生能源占比60%-70%，火力電廠會加裝CCUS做碳中和，另外一個部分就是9%-12%的氫能會來做努力。"],["羅委員廷瑋：就次長瞭解，2025年的能源轉型，有達到當時蔡英文所提出的目標嗎？"],["林次長全能：我們推估2025年再生能源的發電占比應該會達到15%以上……"],["羅委員廷瑋：對，當時他設定……"],["林次長全能：但是設置量會完成，所以可能會在2026年達到20%的發電量。"],["羅委員廷瑋：當時他所設定的目標，你還記得嗎？"],["林次長全能：我知道，我們積極在努力，希望能夠做到，但是看起來……"],["羅委員廷瑋：積極的努力，希望能夠做到，但看起來就是還有一段距離，對不對？"],["林次長全能：會有一點點延誤……"],["羅委員廷瑋：我們沒有要攻擊，沒有要批評，我們就數據上來看，積極努力、儘量去達到，而我問的問題是目前就是沒有達到，還有一段距離，對不對？那我們可以再努力嘛！但這個時候你又告訴我2050又有新目標，那我們就必須先打一個大大的問號，這不是刁難，而是希望透過我們的監督，更加督促經濟部趕緊把前面的承諾達成，然後針對後面的承諾再開支票。"],["林次長全能：是，我們願意這樣來做。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好。最近對岸有成立一個山東石島灣核電廠，你們有掌握嗎？好，請台電。"],["許副總經理永輝：那個是高溫氣冷式的。"],["羅委員廷瑋：高溫氣冷式，對吧？"],["許副總經理永輝：是。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我想和主委分享一下，其實臺灣早就有類似的報告，臺灣在2016年率隊出國參加第二十屆太平洋盆地國際核能會議，出國的報告中清楚指出，高溫氣冷式的反應爐燃料在失去冷卻劑後，表面最高溫度可遠低於安全限值的1620℃，報告的結論提到，基本上排除了爐心熔毀相關事故的可能性，具有非能動的安全特性，說是安全的核能也不為過。主委，高溫氣冷式反應爐在理論上被驗證可行，目前已經有商轉潛力，是否能成為未來淨零碳排上一個努力目標的選項？"],["陳主任委員東陽：這個部分我還要去瞭解，我會找機會看一下這個報告。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，這是我們先掌握的相關資料，會後如果有任何興趣，我們可以再一起相互討論。謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝兩位、謝謝羅委員。","接下來賴士葆委員、賴士葆委員、賴士葆委員。","牛煦庭委員、牛煦庭委員、牛煦庭委員。","鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員。","請張嘉郡委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":396,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-14","speakers":["柯志恩","洪孟楷","葛如鈞","葉元之","洪申翰","陳秀寳","萬美玲","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","林宜瑾","張雅琳","范雲","羅廷瑋","張嘉郡","陳培瑜","張智倫","林倩綺","羅智強","吳春城","楊瓊瓔","翁曉玲"],"page_start":343,"meetingDate":["2024-05-29"],"gazette_id":"1135201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135201_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽及經濟部次長列席就「展望全球核能發電趨勢，我國核電廠\n延役推動現況暨發展新型核能成為永續能源之規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1135201_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"153251","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153251","tool":"pyannote","id":"153251-pyannote"},"job_id":"uwomBZOsBBKzdbXk","queued_at":"2024-05-30 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\"如果以我們2050的一個淨零碳排的一個這個發展來看我們未來在2050的一個再生能源會佔比到60到70%確實是會來增加我們綠能的一個這個發展好那看起來就是沒有很具體的備援措施因為10到14天不管10到20天那它如果安全封鎖它如果天然氣的封鎖到將近20天我們還是無解所以我想這個部分\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 212.484, \"end\": 212.605, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 212.605, \"end\": 212.785, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 212.785, \"end\": 212.965, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 212.965, \"end\": 213.965, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 213.965, \"end\": 214.085, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 214.085, \"end\": 214.506, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"淨\"}, {\"word\": \"零\", \"start\": 214.506, \"end\": 214.786, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"碳\", \"start\": 214.786, \"end\": 215.026, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"排\", \"start\": 215.026, \"end\": 215.286, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 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\"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 236.698, \"end\": 236.778, \"score\": 0.73}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 236.778, \"end\": 237.099, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 237.099, \"end\": 237.239, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 237.239, \"end\": 237.259, \"score\": 0.366}]}, {\"start\": 237.859, \"end\": 253.969, \"text\": \"我想這絕對不是我第一次詢問也不是我這個立法委員發現很多的立委都在關心我想經濟部應該好好考量這個問題而淨零排放是我國最重要的一個政策目前惡霧戰爭的狀況導致天然氣供需失衡許多國家包括美英日加拿大等國\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 237.859, \"end\": 237.999, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 237.999, \"end\": 238.64, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"絕\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 238.64, \"end\": 238.74, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 238.74, \"end\": 238.84, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 238.84, \"end\": 239.02, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 239.02, \"end\": 239.1, 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{\"start\": 255.39, \"end\": 277.353, \"text\": \"分分考慮重啟核電．國際將綠能政策分為兩塊．一個是再生能源搭配天然氣．另一個是可再生能源搭配核電．國際能源總署．也指出會達成全球淨台．淨零碳排．未來20年核電的規模將擴大接近一倍以上的數據對吧你有掌握到這樣的數據嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 255.39, \"end\": 255.57, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 255.57, \"end\": 255.771, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 255.771, \"end\": 256.031, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"慮\"}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 256.031, \"end\": 256.351, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"啟\"}, {\"word\": \"核\", \"start\": 256.351, \"end\": 257.973, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"．\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"際\"}, {\"word\": \"將\"}, {\"word\": \"綠\"}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 257.973, \"end\": 258.173, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 258.173, \"end\": 258.333, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"策\", \"start\": 258.333, \"end\": 258.493, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 258.493, \"end\": 259.354, \"score\": 0.924}, 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\"end\": 581.668, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"興\"}, {\"word\": \"趣\", \"start\": 581.668, \"end\": 582.029, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 582.029, \"end\": 582.249, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 582.249, \"end\": 582.349, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 582.349, \"end\": 582.409, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 582.409, \"end\": 582.61, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 582.61, \"end\": 582.71, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 582.71, \"end\": 583.11, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 583.11, \"end\": 583.29, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"互\", \"start\": 583.29, \"end\": 583.431, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 583.431, \"end\": 583.531, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 583.531, \"end\": 583.551, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"en\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:10,728 --> 00:00:37,941\n好 謝 謝 主 席 請 邀 請 我 們 陳 主 委 還 有 經 濟 部 林 次 長 好 我 們 請 主 委 跟 次 長 羅 委 員 好 主 委 好 次 長 謝 謝 我 想 大 家 都 很 關 心 核 能 那 剛 剛 也 有 在 討 論 到 所 謂 的 核 廢 料 的 處 置 但 我 還 是 要 講 另 外 一 層 面 的 我 們 現 階 段 就 兩 位 能 夠 知 道 國 人 現 在 十 大 的 癌 症 大 概 是 哪 幾 個 癌 嗎\n\n2\n00:00:41,991 --> 00:01:05,669\n大 概 就 好 , 沒 關 係 , 這 沒 有 要 考 試 我 想 可 能 胃 癌 、 大 腸 癌 、 肺 腺 癌 這 些 可 能 都 是 我 們 現 在 知 道 的 前 三 名 肺 癌 大 家 都 認 同 那 很 多 人 都 知 道 平 均 每 兩 個 人 就 有 一 個 人 是 肺 癌 那 發 現 的 時 候 呢 幾 乎 都 是 晚 期 尤 其 是 肺 腺 癌 那 我 自 己 也 有 親 友 有 得 過 肺 腺 癌\n\n3\n00:01:06,329 --> 00:01:30,748\n我 想 近 年 來 抽 菸 的 人 口 不 斷 地 下 降 但 是 肺 癌 的 罹 患 並 沒 有 去 降 低 而 多 數 也 都 有 發 現 這 個 有 相 關 的 數 據 在 支 撐 肺 癌 的 患 者 有 些 是 不 抽 菸 的 那 我 們 就 很 納 悶 沒 有 抽 菸 也 有 基 因 的 問 題 沒 有 基 因 的 問 題\n\n4\n00:01:32,627 --> 00:01:35,612\n欸 , 也 有 可 能 是 有 所 謂 的 空 氣 汙 染 的 問 題 。\n\n5\n00:01:36,949 --> 00:02:02,747\n所 以 我 們 更 希 望 臺 中 在 面 對 這 個 火 力 全 開 的 中 火 我 們 更 想 要 探 討 一 下 是 不 是 有 相 關 的 配 套 方 式 能 夠 去 舒 緩 現 階 段 臺 中 的 困 境 中 部 無 限 式 的 困 境 我 們 空 氣 污 染 的 一 個 困 境 我 想 根 據 經 濟 部 2 0 2 1 年 結 算 的 資 料 臺 灣 電 力 8 3 % 來 自 於 火 力 發 電 其 中 燃 料 以 天 然 氣 燃 煤 為 主\n\n6\n00:02:04,088 --> 00:02:10,295\n藍 媒 戰 火 力 發 電 2 0 2 1 年 5 3 % 藍 氣 供 電 比 4 5 % 換 算 下 來 臺 灣 發 電 約 3 7 % 依 賴 天 然 氣 臺 灣 的 天 然 氣 主 要 來 源 國 是 卡 達 印 尼 馬 來 西 亞 臺 灣 是 海 島 型 國 家 如 果 遇 到 了 颱 風 驚 襲 導 致 傳 奇 的 沿 墮 甚 至 是 最 近 中 國 大 陸 開 始 進 行 的 軍 演\n\n7\n00:02:26,912 --> 00:02:46,804\n我 們 非 常 嚴 厲 的 譴 責 我 們 不 想 要 看 到 這 樣 的 狀 況 一 再 發 生 當 然 作 為 民 意 代 表 我 們 只 能 譴 責 我 們 更 呼 籲 國 防 部 要 捍 衛 中 華 民 國 但 是 我 們 想 請 問 一 下 目 前 天 然 氣 大 概 只 有 1 0 到 1 4 天 的 安 全 存 量 未 來 假 設 遇 到 天 然 氣 被 封 鎖 怎 麼 辦 目 前 有 沒 有 準 備 備 援 的 措 施\n\n8\n00:02:50,177 --> 00:03:14,739\n我 們 現 在 是 有 定 定 安 全 存 量 那 目 前 是 1 1 天 但 是 未 來 我 們 還 會 再 增 加 到 1 4 天 是 對 就 剛 剛 我 講 的 1 0 到 1 4 天 是 那 這 個 是 我 們 現 在 要 增 加 安 全 存 量 那 我 們 現 在 也 在 提 升 我 們 現 在 的 一 個 這 個 接 收 站 跟 我 們 的 一 個 除 草 對 所 以 你 打 算 把 1 0 到 1 4 天 變 成 1 0 到 1 8 天 或 者 是 1 0 到 2 0 天 你 的 目 標 對 吧\n\n9\n00:03:16,209 --> 00:03:16,789\n所 以 是 說 綠 能 補 上 是 嗎 ?\n\n10\n00:03:32,484 --> 00:03:57,259\n如 果 以 我 們 2 0 5 0 的 一 個 淨 零 碳 排 的 一 個 這 個 發 展 來 看 我 們 未 來 在 2 0 5 0 的 一 個 再 生 能 源 會 佔 比 到 6 0 到 7 0 % 確 實 是 會 來 增 加 我 們 綠 能 的 一 個 這 個 發 展 好 那 看 起 來 就 是 沒 有 很 具 體 的 備 援 措 施 因 為 1 0 到 1 4 天 不 管 1 0 到 2 0 天 那 它 如 果 安 全 封 鎖 它 如 果 天 然 氣 的 封 鎖 到 將 近 2 0 天 我 們 還 是 無 解 所 以 我 想 這 個 部 分\n\n11\n00:03:57,859 --> 00:04:13,969\n我 想 這 絕 對 不 是 我 第 一 次 詢 問 也 不 是 我 這 個 立 法 委 員 發 現 很 多 的 立 委 都 在 關 心 我 想 經 濟 部 應 該 好 好 考 量 這 個 問 題 而 淨 零 排 放 是 我 國 最 重 要 的 一 個 政 策 目 前 惡 霧 戰 爭 的 狀 況 導 致 天 然 氣 供 需 失 衡 許 多 國 家 包 括 美 英 日 加 拿 大 等 國\n\n12\n00:04:15,390 --> 00:04:37,353\n分 分 考 慮 重 啟 核 電 ． 國 際 將 綠 能 政 策 分 為 兩 塊 ． 一 個 是 再 生 能 源 搭 配 天 然 氣 ． 另 一 個 是 可 再 生 能 源 搭 配 核 電 ． 國 際 能 源 總 署 ． 也 指 出 會 達 成 全 球 淨 台 ． 淨 零 碳 排 ． 未 來 2 0 年 核 電 的 規 模 將 擴 大 接 近 一 倍 以 上 的 數 據 對 吧 你 有 掌 握 到 這 樣 的 數 據 嗎\n\n13\n00:04:39,414 --> 00:05:07,107\n我 剛 剛 在 報 告 裡 面 有 提 到 說 未 來 的 一 個 核 電 的 占 比 在 2 0 3 0 年 到 2 0 5 0 年 整 個 發 電 占 比 大 概 是 1 0 % 跟 8 % 左 右 那 委 員 的 資 訊 我 想 我 們 會 再 做 更 進 一 步 的 一 個 掌 握 我 想 相 關 媒 體 的 報 導 我 們 僅 供 參 考 但 是 教 學 相 長 我 們 希 望 就 是 台 灣 更 好 但 是 我 想 很 多 的 前 面 的 委 員 應 該 有 問 過 有 沒 有 重 新 評 估 台 灣 的 能 源 政 策 的 一 個 配 比 這 是 我 們 最 重 要 的 一 個 議 題\n\n14\n00:05:08,208 --> 00:05:34,347\n但 我 沒 有 要 你 現 在 馬 上 回 答 我 好 好 地 考 量 但 國 際 對 反 核 的 態 度 突 然 的 轉 變 可 以 從 這 個 阿 聯 酋 共 識 各 國 對 核 能 的 表 態 看 得 很 清 楚 阿 聯 酋 共 識 有 提 到 加 速 零 碳 排 及 低 碳 排 的 一 個 技 術 包 含 再 生 能 源 核 能 碳 減 少 的 一 種 科 技 如 碳 捕 捉 利 用 及 封 存 我 想 包 括 我 們 一 些 單 位 也 在 研 究\n\n15\n00:05:34,887 --> 00:05:35,307\n提 出 端 倪\n\n16\n00:05:46,243 --> 00:06:04,552\n有 嗎 加 速 零 碳 排 及 低 碳 排 的 一 個 技 術 其 中 包 含 的 就 是 核 能 另 外 芬 蘭 的 氣 候 環 境 部 長 在 這 一 次 的 會 議 中 也 有 提 到 如 果 要 讓 地 球 增 溫 控 制 在 1 . 5 度 C 以 內 不 提 升 核 能 的 地 位 是 做 不 到 的 您 認 同 他 這 句 話 嗎\n\n17\n00:06:05,877 --> 00:06:23,159\n跟 委 員 講 那 個 我 的 報 告 裡 面 其 實 有 詳 述 了 這 兩 個 區 塊 的 一 些 論 述 那 麼 其 實 各 個 能 源 各 個 國 家 他 都 有 自 身 的 考 量 那 麼 這 個 部 分 我 想 是 國 家 的 能 源 政 策 他 是 一 種 選 擇\n\n18\n00:06:25,361 --> 00:06:40,067\n我 想 每 一 個 能 源 政 策 都 有 它 的 利 與 弊 但 是 我 們 不 要 輕 重 於 任 何 一 個 能 源 這 應 該 是 你 可 以 認 同 的 吧 而 是 各 個 都 有 一 些 相 關 的 部 署 雞 蛋 不 要 放 在 同 一 個 籃 子\n\n19\n00:06:41,127 --> 00:06:58,138\n那 另 外 2 2 個 大 國 包 括 美 日 韓 都 簽 署 了 2 0 5 0 年 前 增 加 核 能 到 3 倍 請 問 主 委 我 們 台 灣 的 政 策 目 前 還 在 非 核 災 源 嗎 依 照 國 際 的 局 勢 台 灣 現 在 如 何 非 核 淨 零 碳 排 又 該 如 何 完 成 主 委 經 濟 部 長 次 長 請 問 能 夠 回 答 嗎\n\n20\n00:07:04,730 --> 00:07:04,890\n委 員 會 主 席\n\n21\n00:07:19,910 --> 00:07:21,891\n就 次 長 了 解 2 0 2 5 年 的 這 個 能 源 轉 型 有 達 到 當 時 蔡 英 文 所 提 出 的 目 標 嗎 ?\n\n22\n00:07:37,479 --> 00:07:57,614\n我 們 推 估 2 0 2 2 我 們 再 生 能 源 的 發 電 佔 比 應 該 會 達 到 1 5 % 以 上 那 但 是 設 置 量 設 置 量 是 會 完 成 那 我 們 可 能 會 在 2 0 2 6 年 達 到 2 0 % 的 這 個 發 電 點 那 當 時 他 所 設 定 的 目 標 你 還 記 得 嗎 我 知 道 我 們 積 極 的 努 力 希 望 能 夠 做 到 但 是 看 起 來 積 極 的 努 力 希 望 能 夠 做 到 但 看 起 來 就 是 還 有 一 段 距 離 嗎\n\n23\n00:07:59,455 --> 00:08:13,520\n我 們 沒 有 要 攻 擊 沒 有 要 批 評 我 們 就 數 據 上 來 看 嘛 積 極 的 努 力 盡 量 去 達 到 我 問 的 問 題 就 是 目 前 就 是 沒 有 達 到 還 有 一 段 距 離 嘛 對 不 對 那 我 們 可 以 再 努 力 嘛 所 以\n\n24\n00:08:13,860 --> 00:08:15,981\n最 近 對 岸 有 成 立 了 一 個 山 東 石 島 灣 核 電 廠 你 們 有 掌 握 嗎 好 台 電\n\n25\n00:08:46,987 --> 00:09:05,721\n我 想 和 主 委 分 享 一 下 其 實 台 灣 早 就 有 類 似 這 樣 的 報 告 台 灣 在 2 0 1 6 年 率 隊 出 國 參 加 第 2 0 屆 的 太 平 洋 盆 地 國 際 核 能 會 議 當 中 出 國 的 報 告 清 楚 指 出 高 溫 氣 冷 式 的 反 應 爐 燃 料 在 失 去 冷 卻 劑 後 表 面 最 高 溫 度 可 遠 低 於 安 全 值\n\n26\n00:09:06,101 --> 00:09:06,141\n主 委 ．\n\n27\n00:09:33,518 --> 00:09:43,551\n這 個 部 分 我 還 要 去 了 解 一 下 我 找 機 會 來 看 一 下 這 個 報 告 好 這 是 我 們 先 掌 握 相 關 資 料 我 想 會 後 如 果 有 任 何 的 興 趣 我 們 可 以 再 一 起 相 互 討 論 好 謝 謝 你 謝 謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10728\t37941\t好謝謝主席請邀請我們陳主委還有經濟部林次長好我們請主委跟次長羅委員好主委好次長謝謝我想大家都很關心核能那剛剛也有在討論到所謂的核廢料的處置但我還是要講另外一層面的我們現階段就兩位能夠知道國人現在十大的癌症大概是哪幾個癌嗎\n41991\t65669\t大概就好,沒關係,這沒有要考試我想可能胃癌、大腸癌、肺腺癌這些可能都是我們現在知道的前三名肺癌大家都認同那很多人都知道平均每兩個人就有一個人是肺癌那發現的時候呢幾乎都是晚期尤其是肺腺癌那我自己也有親友有得過肺腺癌\n66329\t90748\t我想近年來抽菸的人口不斷地下降但是肺癌的罹患並沒有去降低而多數也都有發現這個有相關的數據在支撐肺癌的患者有些是不抽菸的那我們就很納悶沒有抽菸也有基因的問題沒有基因的問題\n92627\t95612\t欸,也有可能是有所謂的空氣汙染的問題。\n96949\t122747\t所以我們更希望臺中在面對這個火力全開的中火我們更想要探討一下是不是有相關的配套方式能夠去舒緩現階段臺中的困境中部無限式的困境我們空氣污染的一個困境我想根據經濟部2021年結算的資料臺灣電力83%來自於火力發電其中燃料以天然氣燃煤為主\n124088\t130295\t藍媒戰火力發電2021年53%藍氣供電比45%換算下來臺灣發電約37%依賴天然氣臺灣的天然氣主要來源國是卡達印尼馬來西亞臺灣是海島型國家如果遇到了颱風驚襲導致傳奇的沿墮甚至是最近中國大陸開始進行的軍演\n146912\t166804\t我們非常嚴厲的譴責我們不想要看到這樣的狀況一再發生當然作為民意代表我們只能譴責我們更呼籲國防部要捍衛中華民國但是我們想請問一下目前天然氣大概只有10到14天的安全存量未來假設遇到天然氣被封鎖怎麼辦目前有沒有準備備援的措施\n170177\t194739\t我們現在是有定定安全存量那目前是11天但是未來我們還會再增加到14天是對就剛剛我講的10到14天是那這個是我們現在要增加安全存量那我們現在也在提升我們現在的一個這個接收站跟我們的一個除草對所以你打算把10到14天變成10到18天或者是10到20天你的目標對吧\n196209\t196789\t所以是說綠能補上是嗎?\n212484\t237259\t如果以我們2050的一個淨零碳排的一個這個發展來看我們未來在2050的一個再生能源會佔比到60到70%確實是會來增加我們綠能的一個這個發展好那看起來就是沒有很具體的備援措施因為10到14天不管10到20天那它如果安全封鎖它如果天然氣的封鎖到將近20天我們還是無解所以我想這個部分\n237859\t253969\t我想這絕對不是我第一次詢問也不是我這個立法委員發現很多的立委都在關心我想經濟部應該好好考量這個問題而淨零排放是我國最重要的一個政策目前惡霧戰爭的狀況導致天然氣供需失衡許多國家包括美英日加拿大等國\n255390\t277353\t分分考慮重啟核電．國際將綠能政策分為兩塊．一個是再生能源搭配天然氣．另一個是可再生能源搭配核電．國際能源總署．也指出會達成全球淨台．淨零碳排．未來20年核電的規模將擴大接近一倍以上的數據對吧你有掌握到這樣的數據嗎\n279414\t307107\t我剛剛在報告裡面有提到說未來的一個核電的占比在2030年到2050年整個發電占比大概是10%跟8%左右那委員的資訊我想我們會再做更進一步的一個掌握我想相關媒體的報導我們僅供參考但是教學相長我們希望就是台灣更好但是我想很多的前面的委員應該有問過有沒有重新評估台灣的能源政策的一個配比這是我們最重要的一個議題\n308208\t334347\t但我沒有要你現在馬上回答我好好地考量但國際對反核的態度突然的轉變可以從這個阿聯酋共識各國對核能的表態看得很清楚阿聯酋共識有提到加速零碳排及低碳排的一個技術包含再生能源核能碳減少的一種科技如碳捕捉利用及封存我想包括我們一些單位也在研究\n334887\t335307\t提出端倪\n346243\t364552\t有嗎加速零碳排及低碳排的一個技術其中包含的就是核能另外芬蘭的氣候環境部長在這一次的會議中也有提到如果要讓地球增溫控制在1.5度C以內不提升核能的地位是做不到的您認同他這句話嗎\n365877\t383159\t跟委員講那個我的報告裡面其實有詳述了這兩個區塊的一些論述那麼其實各個能源各個國家他都有自身的考量那麼這個部分我想是國家的能源政策他是一種選擇\n385361\t400067\t我想每一個能源政策都有它的利與弊但是我們不要輕重於任何一個能源這應該是你可以認同的吧而是各個都有一些相關的部署雞蛋不要放在同一個籃子\n401127\t418138\t那另外22個大國包括美日韓都簽署了2050年前增加核能到3倍請問主委我們台灣的政策目前還在非核災源嗎依照國際的局勢台灣現在如何非核淨零碳排又該如何完成主委經濟部長次長請問能夠回答嗎\n424730\t424890\t委員會主席\n439910\t441891\t就次長了解2025年的這個能源轉型有達到當時蔡英文所提出的目標嗎?\n457479\t477614\t我們推估2022我們再生能源的發電佔比應該會達到15%以上那但是設置量設置量是會完成那我們可能會在2026年達到20%的這個發電點那當時他所設定的目標你還記得嗎我知道我們積極的努力希望能夠做到但是看起來積極的努力希望能夠做到但看起來就是還有一段距離嗎\n479455\t493520\t我們沒有要攻擊沒有要批評我們就數據上來看嘛積極的努力盡量去達到我問的問題就是目前就是沒有達到還有一段距離嘛對不對那我們可以再努力嘛所以\n493860\t495981\t最近對岸有成立了一個山東石島灣核電廠你們有掌握嗎好台電\n526987\t545721\t我想和主委分享一下其實台灣早就有類似這樣的報告台灣在2016年率隊出國參加第20屆的太平洋盆地國際核能會議當中出國的報告清楚指出高溫氣冷式的反應爐燃料在失去冷卻劑後表面最高溫度可遠低於安全值\n546101\t546141\t主委．\n573518\t583551\t這個部分我還要去了解一下我找機會來看一下這個報告好這是我們先掌握相關資料我想會後如果有任何的興趣我們可以再一起相互討論好謝謝你謝謝\n","txt":"好謝謝主席請邀請我們陳主委還有經濟部林次長好我們請主委跟次長羅委員好主委好次長謝謝我想大家都很關心核能那剛剛也有在討論到所謂的核廢料的處置但我還是要講另外一層面的我們現階段就兩位能夠知道國人現在十大的癌症大概是哪幾個癌嗎\n大概就好,沒關係,這沒有要考試我想可能胃癌、大腸癌、肺腺癌這些可能都是我們現在知道的前三名肺癌大家都認同那很多人都知道平均每兩個人就有一個人是肺癌那發現的時候呢幾乎都是晚期尤其是肺腺癌那我自己也有親友有得過肺腺癌\n我想近年來抽菸的人口不斷地下降但是肺癌的罹患並沒有去降低而多數也都有發現這個有相關的數據在支撐肺癌的患者有些是不抽菸的那我們就很納悶沒有抽菸也有基因的問題沒有基因的問題\n欸,也有可能是有所謂的空氣汙染的問題。\n所以我們更希望臺中在面對這個火力全開的中火我們更想要探討一下是不是有相關的配套方式能夠去舒緩現階段臺中的困境中部無限式的困境我們空氣污染的一個困境我想根據經濟部2021年結算的資料臺灣電力83%來自於火力發電其中燃料以天然氣燃煤為主\n藍媒戰火力發電2021年53%藍氣供電比45%換算下來臺灣發電約37%依賴天然氣臺灣的天然氣主要來源國是卡達印尼馬來西亞臺灣是海島型國家如果遇到了颱風驚襲導致傳奇的沿墮甚至是最近中國大陸開始進行的軍演\n我們非常嚴厲的譴責我們不想要看到這樣的狀況一再發生當然作為民意代表我們只能譴責我們更呼籲國防部要捍衛中華民國但是我們想請問一下目前天然氣大概只有10到14天的安全存量未來假設遇到天然氣被封鎖怎麼辦目前有沒有準備備援的措施\n我們現在是有定定安全存量那目前是11天但是未來我們還會再增加到14天是對就剛剛我講的10到14天是那這個是我們現在要增加安全存量那我們現在也在提升我們現在的一個這個接收站跟我們的一個除草對所以你打算把10到14天變成10到18天或者是10到20天你的目標對吧\n所以是說綠能補上是嗎?\n如果以我們2050的一個淨零碳排的一個這個發展來看我們未來在2050的一個再生能源會佔比到60到70%確實是會來增加我們綠能的一個這個發展好那看起來就是沒有很具體的備援措施因為10到14天不管10到20天那它如果安全封鎖它如果天然氣的封鎖到將近20天我們還是無解所以我想這個部分\n我想這絕對不是我第一次詢問也不是我這個立法委員發現很多的立委都在關心我想經濟部應該好好考量這個問題而淨零排放是我國最重要的一個政策目前惡霧戰爭的狀況導致天然氣供需失衡許多國家包括美英日加拿大等國\n分分考慮重啟核電．國際將綠能政策分為兩塊．一個是再生能源搭配天然氣．另一個是可再生能源搭配核電．國際能源總署．也指出會達成全球淨台．淨零碳排．未來20年核電的規模將擴大接近一倍以上的數據對吧你有掌握到這樣的數據嗎\n我剛剛在報告裡面有提到說未來的一個核電的占比在2030年到2050年整個發電占比大概是10%跟8%左右那委員的資訊我想我們會再做更進一步的一個掌握我想相關媒體的報導我們僅供參考但是教學相長我們希望就是台灣更好但是我想很多的前面的委員應該有問過有沒有重新評估台灣的能源政策的一個配比這是我們最重要的一個議題\n但我沒有要你現在馬上回答我好好地考量但國際對反核的態度突然的轉變可以從這個阿聯酋共識各國對核能的表態看得很清楚阿聯酋共識有提到加速零碳排及低碳排的一個技術包含再生能源核能碳減少的一種科技如碳捕捉利用及封存我想包括我們一些單位也在研究\n提出端倪\n有嗎加速零碳排及低碳排的一個技術其中包含的就是核能另外芬蘭的氣候環境部長在這一次的會議中也有提到如果要讓地球增溫控制在1.5度C以內不提升核能的地位是做不到的您認同他這句話嗎\n跟委員講那個我的報告裡面其實有詳述了這兩個區塊的一些論述那麼其實各個能源各個國家他都有自身的考量那麼這個部分我想是國家的能源政策他是一種選擇\n我想每一個能源政策都有它的利與弊但是我們不要輕重於任何一個能源這應該是你可以認同的吧而是各個都有一些相關的部署雞蛋不要放在同一個籃子\n那另外22個大國包括美日韓都簽署了2050年前增加核能到3倍請問主委我們台灣的政策目前還在非核災源嗎依照國際的局勢台灣現在如何非核淨零碳排又該如何完成主委經濟部長次長請問能夠回答嗎\n委員會主席\n就次長了解2025年的這個能源轉型有達到當時蔡英文所提出的目標嗎?\n我們推估2022我們再生能源的發電佔比應該會達到15%以上那但是設置量設置量是會完成那我們可能會在2026年達到20%的這個發電點那當時他所設定的目標你還記得嗎我知道我們積極的努力希望能夠做到但是看起來積極的努力希望能夠做到但看起來就是還有一段距離嗎\n我們沒有要攻擊沒有要批評我們就數據上來看嘛積極的努力盡量去達到我問的問題就是目前就是沒有達到還有一段距離嘛對不對那我們可以再努力嘛所以\n最近對岸有成立了一個山東石島灣核電廠你們有掌握嗎好台電\n我想和主委分享一下其實台灣早就有類似這樣的報告台灣在2016年率隊出國參加第20屆的太平洋盆地國際核能會議當中出國的報告清楚指出高溫氣冷式的反應爐燃料在失去冷卻劑後表面最高溫度可遠低於安全值\n主委．\n這個部分我還要去了解一下我找機會來看一下這個報告好這是我們先掌握相關資料我想會後如果有任何的興趣我們可以再一起相互討論好謝謝你謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.728 --> 00:37.941\n好 謝 謝 主 席 請 邀 請 我 們 陳 主 委 還 有 經 濟 部 林 次 長 好 我 們 請 主 委 跟 次 長 羅 委 員 好 主 委 好 次 長 謝 謝 我 想 大 家 都 很 關 心 核 能 那 剛 剛 也 有 在 討 論 到 所 謂 的 核 廢 料 的 處 置 但 我 還 是 要 講 另 外 一 層 面 的 我 們 現 階 段 就 兩 位 能 夠 知 道 國 人 現 在 十 大 的 癌 症 大 概 是 哪 幾 個 癌 嗎\n\n00:41.991 --> 01:05.669\n大 概 就 好 , 沒 關 係 , 這 沒 有 要 考 試 我 想 可 能 胃 癌 、 大 腸 癌 、 肺 腺 癌 這 些 可 能 都 是 我 們 現 在 知 道 的 前 三 名 肺 癌 大 家 都 認 同 那 很 多 人 都 知 道 平 均 每 兩 個 人 就 有 一 個 人 是 肺 癌 那 發 現 的 時 候 呢 幾 乎 都 是 晚 期 尤 其 是 肺 腺 癌 那 我 自 己 也 有 親 友 有 得 過 肺 腺 癌\n\n01:06.329 --> 01:30.748\n我 想 近 年 來 抽 菸 的 人 口 不 斷 地 下 降 但 是 肺 癌 的 罹 患 並 沒 有 去 降 低 而 多 數 也 都 有 發 現 這 個 有 相 關 的 數 據 在 支 撐 肺 癌 的 患 者 有 些 是 不 抽 菸 的 那 我 們 就 很 納 悶 沒 有 抽 菸 也 有 基 因 的 問 題 沒 有 基 因 的 問 題\n\n01:32.627 --> 01:35.612\n欸 , 也 有 可 能 是 有 所 謂 的 空 氣 汙 染 的 問 題 。\n\n01:36.949 --> 02:02.747\n所 以 我 們 更 希 望 臺 中 在 面 對 這 個 火 力 全 開 的 中 火 我 們 更 想 要 探 討 一 下 是 不 是 有 相 關 的 配 套 方 式 能 夠 去 舒 緩 現 階 段 臺 中 的 困 境 中 部 無 限 式 的 困 境 我 們 空 氣 污 染 的 一 個 困 境 我 想 根 據 經 濟 部 2 0 2 1 年 結 算 的 資 料 臺 灣 電 力 8 3 % 來 自 於 火 力 發 電 其 中 燃 料 以 天 然 氣 燃 煤 為 主\n\n02:04.088 --> 02:10.295\n藍 媒 戰 火 力 發 電 2 0 2 1 年 5 3 % 藍 氣 供 電 比 4 5 % 換 算 下 來 臺 灣 發 電 約 3 7 % 依 賴 天 然 氣 臺 灣 的 天 然 氣 主 要 來 源 國 是 卡 達 印 尼 馬 來 西 亞 臺 灣 是 海 島 型 國 家 如 果 遇 到 了 颱 風 驚 襲 導 致 傳 奇 的 沿 墮 甚 至 是 最 近 中 國 大 陸 開 始 進 行 的 軍 演\n\n02:26.912 --> 02:46.804\n我 們 非 常 嚴 厲 的 譴 責 我 們 不 想 要 看 到 這 樣 的 狀 況 一 再 發 生 當 然 作 為 民 意 代 表 我 們 只 能 譴 責 我 們 更 呼 籲 國 防 部 要 捍 衛 中 華 民 國 但 是 我 們 想 請 問 一 下 目 前 天 然 氣 大 概 只 有 1 0 到 1 4 天 的 安 全 存 量 未 來 假 設 遇 到 天 然 氣 被 封 鎖 怎 麼 辦 目 前 有 沒 有 準 備 備 援 的 措 施\n\n02:50.177 --> 03:14.739\n我 們 現 在 是 有 定 定 安 全 存 量 那 目 前 是 1 1 天 但 是 未 來 我 們 還 會 再 增 加 到 1 4 天 是 對 就 剛 剛 我 講 的 1 0 到 1 4 天 是 那 這 個 是 我 們 現 在 要 增 加 安 全 存 量 那 我 們 現 在 也 在 提 升 我 們 現 在 的 一 個 這 個 接 收 站 跟 我 們 的 一 個 除 草 對 所 以 你 打 算 把 1 0 到 1 4 天 變 成 1 0 到 1 8 天 或 者 是 1 0 到 2 0 天 你 的 目 標 對 吧\n\n03:16.209 --> 03:16.789\n所 以 是 說 綠 能 補 上 是 嗎 ?\n\n03:32.484 --> 03:57.259\n如 果 以 我 們 2 0 5 0 的 一 個 淨 零 碳 排 的 一 個 這 個 發 展 來 看 我 們 未 來 在 2 0 5 0 的 一 個 再 生 能 源 會 佔 比 到 6 0 到 7 0 % 確 實 是 會 來 增 加 我 們 綠 能 的 一 個 這 個 發 展 好 那 看 起 來 就 是 沒 有 很 具 體 的 備 援 措 施 因 為 1 0 到 1 4 天 不 管 1 0 到 2 0 天 那 它 如 果 安 全 封 鎖 它 如 果 天 然 氣 的 封 鎖 到 將 近 2 0 天 我 們 還 是 無 解 所 以 我 想 這 個 部 分\n\n03:57.859 --> 04:13.969\n我 想 這 絕 對 不 是 我 第 一 次 詢 問 也 不 是 我 這 個 立 法 委 員 發 現 很 多 的 立 委 都 在 關 心 我 想 經 濟 部 應 該 好 好 考 量 這 個 問 題 而 淨 零 排 放 是 我 國 最 重 要 的 一 個 政 策 目 前 惡 霧 戰 爭 的 狀 況 導 致 天 然 氣 供 需 失 衡 許 多 國 家 包 括 美 英 日 加 拿 大 等 國\n\n04:15.390 --> 04:37.353\n分 分 考 慮 重 啟 核 電 ． 國 際 將 綠 能 政 策 分 為 兩 塊 ． 一 個 是 再 生 能 源 搭 配 天 然 氣 ． 另 一 個 是 可 再 生 能 源 搭 配 核 電 ． 國 際 能 源 總 署 ． 也 指 出 會 達 成 全 球 淨 台 ． 淨 零 碳 排 ． 未 來 2 0 年 核 電 的 規 模 將 擴 大 接 近 一 倍 以 上 的 數 據 對 吧 你 有 掌 握 到 這 樣 的 數 據 嗎\n\n04:39.414 --> 05:07.107\n我 剛 剛 在 報 告 裡 面 有 提 到 說 未 來 的 一 個 核 電 的 占 比 在 2 0 3 0 年 到 2 0 5 0 年 整 個 發 電 占 比 大 概 是 1 0 % 跟 8 % 左 右 那 委 員 的 資 訊 我 想 我 們 會 再 做 更 進 一 步 的 一 個 掌 握 我 想 相 關 媒 體 的 報 導 我 們 僅 供 參 考 但 是 教 學 相 長 我 們 希 望 就 是 台 灣 更 好 但 是 我 想 很 多 的 前 面 的 委 員 應 該 有 問 過 有 沒 有 重 新 評 估 台 灣 的 能 源 政 策 的 一 個 配 比 這 是 我 們 最 重 要 的 一 個 議 題\n\n05:08.208 --> 05:34.347\n但 我 沒 有 要 你 現 在 馬 上 回 答 我 好 好 地 考 量 但 國 際 對 反 核 的 態 度 突 然 的 轉 變 可 以 從 這 個 阿 聯 酋 共 識 各 國 對 核 能 的 表 態 看 得 很 清 楚 阿 聯 酋 共 識 有 提 到 加 速 零 碳 排 及 低 碳 排 的 一 個 技 術 包 含 再 生 能 源 核 能 碳 減 少 的 一 種 科 技 如 碳 捕 捉 利 用 及 封 存 我 想 包 括 我 們 一 些 單 位 也 在 研 究\n\n05:34.887 --> 05:35.307\n提 出 端 倪\n\n05:46.243 --> 06:04.552\n有 嗎 加 速 零 碳 排 及 低 碳 排 的 一 個 技 術 其 中 包 含 的 就 是 核 能 另 外 芬 蘭 的 氣 候 環 境 部 長 在 這 一 次 的 會 議 中 也 有 提 到 如 果 要 讓 地 球 增 溫 控 制 在 1 . 5 度 C 以 內 不 提 升 核 能 的 地 位 是 做 不 到 的 您 認 同 他 這 句 話 嗎\n\n06:05.877 --> 06:23.159\n跟 委 員 講 那 個 我 的 報 告 裡 面 其 實 有 詳 述 了 這 兩 個 區 塊 的 一 些 論 述 那 麼 其 實 各 個 能 源 各 個 國 家 他 都 有 自 身 的 考 量 那 麼 這 個 部 分 我 想 是 國 家 的 能 源 政 策 他 是 一 種 選 擇\n\n06:25.361 --> 06:40.067\n我 想 每 一 個 能 源 政 策 都 有 它 的 利 與 弊 但 是 我 們 不 要 輕 重 於 任 何 一 個 能 源 這 應 該 是 你 可 以 認 同 的 吧 而 是 各 個 都 有 一 些 相 關 的 部 署 雞 蛋 不 要 放 在 同 一 個 籃 子\n\n06:41.127 --> 06:58.138\n那 另 外 2 2 個 大 國 包 括 美 日 韓 都 簽 署 了 2 0 5 0 年 前 增 加 核 能 到 3 倍 請 問 主 委 我 們 台 灣 的 政 策 目 前 還 在 非 核 災 源 嗎 依 照 國 際 的 局 勢 台 灣 現 在 如 何 非 核 淨 零 碳 排 又 該 如 何 完 成 主 委 經 濟 部 長 次 長 請 問 能 夠 回 答 嗎\n\n07:04.730 --> 07:04.890\n委 員 會 主 席\n\n07:19.910 --> 07:21.891\n就 次 長 了 解 2 0 2 5 年 的 這 個 能 源 轉 型 有 達 到 當 時 蔡 英 文 所 提 出 的 目 標 嗎 ?\n\n07:37.479 --> 07:57.614\n我 們 推 估 2 0 2 2 我 們 再 生 能 源 的 發 電 佔 比 應 該 會 達 到 1 5 % 以 上 那 但 是 設 置 量 設 置 量 是 會 完 成 那 我 們 可 能 會 在 2 0 2 6 年 達 到 2 0 % 的 這 個 發 電 點 那 當 時 他 所 設 定 的 目 標 你 還 記 得 嗎 我 知 道 我 們 積 極 的 努 力 希 望 能 夠 做 到 但 是 看 起 來 積 極 的 努 力 希 望 能 夠 做 到 但 看 起 來 就 是 還 有 一 段 距 離 嗎\n\n07:59.455 --> 08:13.520\n我 們 沒 有 要 攻 擊 沒 有 要 批 評 我 們 就 數 據 上 來 看 嘛 積 極 的 努 力 盡 量 去 達 到 我 問 的 問 題 就 是 目 前 就 是 沒 有 達 到 還 有 一 段 距 離 嘛 對 不 對 那 我 們 可 以 再 努 力 嘛 所 以\n\n08:13.860 --> 08:15.981\n最 近 對 岸 有 成 立 了 一 個 山 東 石 島 灣 核 電 廠 你 們 有 掌 握 嗎 好 台 電\n\n08:46.987 --> 09:05.721\n我 想 和 主 委 分 享 一 下 其 實 台 灣 早 就 有 類 似 這 樣 的 報 告 台 灣 在 2 0 1 6 年 率 隊 出 國 參 加 第 2 0 屆 的 太 平 洋 盆 地 國 際 核 能 會 議 當 中 出 國 的 報 告 清 楚 指 出 高 溫 氣 冷 式 的 反 應 爐 燃 料 在 失 去 冷 卻 劑 後 表 面 最 高 溫 度 可 遠 低 於 安 全 值\n\n09:06.101 --> 09:06.141\n主 委 ．\n\n09:33.518 --> 09:43.551\n這 個 部 分 我 還 要 去 了 解 一 下 我 找 機 會 來 看 一 下 這 個 報 告 好 這 是 我 們 先 掌 握 相 關 資 料 我 想 會 後 如 果 有 任 何 的 興 趣 我 們 可 以 再 一 起 相 互 討 論 好 謝 謝 你 謝 謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.728,"end":37.941,"text":"好謝謝主席請邀請我們陳主委還有經濟部林次長好我們請主委跟次長羅委員好主委好次長謝謝我想大家都很關心核能那剛剛也有在討論到所謂的核廢料的處置但我還是要講另外一層面的我們現階段就兩位能夠知道國人現在十大的癌症大概是哪幾個癌嗎"},{"start":41.991,"end":65.669,"text":"大概就好,沒關係,這沒有要考試我想可能胃癌、大腸癌、肺腺癌這些可能都是我們現在知道的前三名肺癌大家都認同那很多人都知道平均每兩個人就有一個人是肺癌那發現的時候呢幾乎都是晚期尤其是肺腺癌那我自己也有親友有得過肺腺癌"},{"start":66.329,"end":90.748,"text":"我想近年來抽菸的人口不斷地下降但是肺癌的罹患並沒有去降低而多數也都有發現這個有相關的數據在支撐肺癌的患者有些是不抽菸的那我們就很納悶沒有抽菸也有基因的問題沒有基因的問題"},{"start":92.627,"end":95.612,"text":"欸,也有可能是有所謂的空氣汙染的問題。"},{"start":96.949,"end":122.747,"text":"所以我們更希望臺中在面對這個火力全開的中火我們更想要探討一下是不是有相關的配套方式能夠去舒緩現階段臺中的困境中部無限式的困境我們空氣污染的一個困境我想根據經濟部2021年結算的資料臺灣電力83%來自於火力發電其中燃料以天然氣燃煤為主"},{"start":124.088,"end":130.295,"text":"藍媒戰火力發電2021年53%藍氣供電比45%換算下來臺灣發電約37%依賴天然氣臺灣的天然氣主要來源國是卡達印尼馬來西亞臺灣是海島型國家如果遇到了颱風驚襲導致傳奇的沿墮甚至是最近中國大陸開始進行的軍演"},{"start":146.912,"end":166.804,"text":"我們非常嚴厲的譴責我們不想要看到這樣的狀況一再發生當然作為民意代表我們只能譴責我們更呼籲國防部要捍衛中華民國但是我們想請問一下目前天然氣大概只有10到14天的安全存量未來假設遇到天然氣被封鎖怎麼辦目前有沒有準備備援的措施"},{"start":170.177,"end":194.739,"text":"我們現在是有定定安全存量那目前是11天但是未來我們還會再增加到14天是對就剛剛我講的10到14天是那這個是我們現在要增加安全存量那我們現在也在提升我們現在的一個這個接收站跟我們的一個除草對所以你打算把10到14天變成10到18天或者是10到20天你的目標對吧"},{"start":196.209,"end":196.789,"text":"所以是說綠能補上是嗎?"},{"start":212.484,"end":237.259,"text":"如果以我們2050的一個淨零碳排的一個這個發展來看我們未來在2050的一個再生能源會佔比到60到70%確實是會來增加我們綠能的一個這個發展好那看起來就是沒有很具體的備援措施因為10到14天不管10到20天那它如果安全封鎖它如果天然氣的封鎖到將近20天我們還是無解所以我想這個部分"},{"start":237.859,"end":253.969,"text":"我想這絕對不是我第一次詢問也不是我這個立法委員發現很多的立委都在關心我想經濟部應該好好考量這個問題而淨零排放是我國最重要的一個政策目前惡霧戰爭的狀況導致天然氣供需失衡許多國家包括美英日加拿大等國"},{"start":255.39,"end":277.353,"text":"分分考慮重啟核電．國際將綠能政策分為兩塊．一個是再生能源搭配天然氣．另一個是可再生能源搭配核電．國際能源總署．也指出會達成全球淨台．淨零碳排．未來20年核電的規模將擴大接近一倍以上的數據對吧你有掌握到這樣的數據嗎"},{"start":279.414,"end":307.107,"text":"我剛剛在報告裡面有提到說未來的一個核電的占比在2030年到2050年整個發電占比大概是10%跟8%左右那委員的資訊我想我們會再做更進一步的一個掌握我想相關媒體的報導我們僅供參考但是教學相長我們希望就是台灣更好但是我想很多的前面的委員應該有問過有沒有重新評估台灣的能源政策的一個配比這是我們最重要的一個議題"},{"start":308.208,"end":334.347,"text":"但我沒有要你現在馬上回答我好好地考量但國際對反核的態度突然的轉變可以從這個阿聯酋共識各國對核能的表態看得很清楚阿聯酋共識有提到加速零碳排及低碳排的一個技術包含再生能源核能碳減少的一種科技如碳捕捉利用及封存我想包括我們一些單位也在研究"},{"start":334.887,"end":335.307,"text":"提出端倪"},{"start":346.243,"end":364.552,"text":"有嗎加速零碳排及低碳排的一個技術其中包含的就是核能另外芬蘭的氣候環境部長在這一次的會議中也有提到如果要讓地球增溫控制在1.5度C以內不提升核能的地位是做不到的您認同他這句話嗎"},{"start":365.877,"end":383.159,"text":"跟委員講那個我的報告裡面其實有詳述了這兩個區塊的一些論述那麼其實各個能源各個國家他都有自身的考量那麼這個部分我想是國家的能源政策他是一種選擇"},{"start":385.361,"end":400.067,"text":"我想每一個能源政策都有它的利與弊但是我們不要輕重於任何一個能源這應該是你可以認同的吧而是各個都有一些相關的部署雞蛋不要放在同一個籃子"},{"start":401.127,"end":418.138,"text":"那另外22個大國包括美日韓都簽署了2050年前增加核能到3倍請問主委我們台灣的政策目前還在非核災源嗎依照國際的局勢台灣現在如何非核淨零碳排又該如何完成主委經濟部長次長請問能夠回答嗎"},{"start":424.73,"end":424.89,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":439.91,"end":441.891,"text":"就次長了解2025年的這個能源轉型有達到當時蔡英文所提出的目標嗎?"},{"start":457.479,"end":477.614,"text":"我們推估2022我們再生能源的發電佔比應該會達到15%以上那但是設置量設置量是會完成那我們可能會在2026年達到20%的這個發電點那當時他所設定的目標你還記得嗎我知道我們積極的努力希望能夠做到但是看起來積極的努力希望能夠做到但看起來就是還有一段距離嗎"},{"start":479.455,"end":493.52,"text":"我們沒有要攻擊沒有要批評我們就數據上來看嘛積極的努力盡量去達到我問的問題就是目前就是沒有達到還有一段距離嘛對不對那我們可以再努力嘛所以"},{"start":493.86,"end":495.981,"text":"最近對岸有成立了一個山東石島灣核電廠你們有掌握嗎好台電"},{"start":526.987,"end":545.721,"text":"我想和主委分享一下其實台灣早就有類似這樣的報告台灣在2016年率隊出國參加第20屆的太平洋盆地國際核能會議當中出國的報告清楚指出高溫氣冷式的反應爐燃料在失去冷卻劑後表面最高溫度可遠低於安全值"},{"start":546.101,"end":546.141,"text":"主委．"},{"start":573.518,"end":583.551,"text":"這個部分我還要去了解一下我找機會來看一下這個報告好這是我們先掌握相關資料我想會後如果有任何的興趣我們可以再一起相互討論好謝謝你謝謝"}]}}}}