{"id":153253,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153253","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/2c978e04ca5e1331aa591fd2a0acb27fd0e137800dc086eaa3ee6acdf2d5e987bf08d13ba3372ad95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張嘉郡","委員發言時間":"11:34:04 - 11:40:15","影片長度":"00:06:11","會議時間":"2024-05-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽及經濟部次長列席就「展望全球核能發電趨勢，我國核電廠延役推動現況暨發展新型核能成為永續能源之規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【5月27日及29日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-29","duration":371,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-14"},"end_time":"2024-05-29T11:40:15+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-29T11:34:04+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":731,"blocks":[["張委員嘉郡：（11時34分）主席，我想請主委。"],["主席：請陳主委。"],["張委員嘉郡：陳主委，要不要啟用核電是經濟部的責任，管理核電廠安全是核安會的職責，新內閣上任之後，經濟部長郭智輝說核能是乾淨能源，上任後一定會重新盤整；國發會主委劉鏡清今天也說不排斥重啟核能，顯然現在整個經濟發展相關部會都認同重啟核能。先請教主委，請問核安會有沒有收到指示，對於核三、甚至核二再延役做出沙盤推演？"],["陳主任委員東陽：沒有。"],["張委員嘉郡：沒有？"],["陳主任委員東陽：沒有。"],["張委員嘉郡：完全沒有？那為什麼沒有做？核安會負責核能安全，總不能等到事情發生了才開始做，主委是不是能夠督促會內對核電廠延役的議題做出推演跟結論？"],["陳主任委員東陽：跟張委員報告，我剛才講沒有是說上面沒有交代我改變，安全是我們一直在努力的工作，這是我們會的工作，所以這個部分沒有任何疑義。"],["張委員嘉郡：所以本席在這裡要求你們做的業務報告跟簡報不要每一次都是很空泛的內容，是不是能夠更仔細？我記得2012年核安會有要求台電啟動同行審查（peer review），是否需要再做耐震補強要到報告出爐了才可以來評估，但是從2012年到現在多久了？十二年了！請問核安會收到台電的這份報告了嗎？"],["陳主任委員東陽：現在台電還在進行國外同行的審查。"],["張委員嘉郡：十二年了欸！這個時間都可以讀兩個博士學位、四個博士學位了，台電竟然做不出一個報告，做到核電廠都要退役光了，我們社會能夠接受一份報告要這麼久嗎？核安會的主委，你要為台電背書嗎？這份報告要十二年，你能夠接受嗎？"],["陳主任委員東陽：跟張委員報告，這個審查的review其實是很嚴謹、規模是很大的，它除了工程之外，還有地質……"],["張委員嘉郡：是非常嚴謹，做到核電廠全部都要退役了還做不出來！那我再問主委，安全是第一優先問題，我相信核安會也會審慎評估，很多歐美國家他們的核電廠年限都是五十年、六十年，請問核安會主委，你覺得我們現行的核電廠壽命是否可能延長？"],["陳主任委員東陽：就我的理解，所有核電廠剛開始的執照，運轉期限都是四十年。"],["張委員嘉郡：所以你沒有辦法……"],["陳主任委員東陽：它必須經過延役的手續、安全的檢查。"],["張委員嘉郡：假設說包括核四，它其實沒有實際運轉過，一直都只有政府對外公布的片面消息，無法服眾，核安會是不是能夠考慮開放核四廠供媒體、專家、民意代表、一般民眾實際參觀，讓核四的狀況公開透明，讓民意再度決定核四廠是否足夠安全？"],["陳主任委員東陽：核四是台電的……產權在台電。"],["張委員嘉郡：我知道，但您的意見呢？您建議呢？"],["陳主任委員東陽：我沒辦法幫台電做決定。"],["張委員嘉郡：那次長呢？假設讓核四提供專家、媒體、甚至民意代表去參觀，然後公開透明，讓大家去理解核四現在的狀態，次長同意嗎？"],["林次長全能：事實上我們過去都有安排，或者是接受大家來看，如果要我們去做這樣的評估，我想台電也願意來做這個評估。"],["張委員嘉郡：台電也OK嘛，對不對？針對這部分，我想是不是儘速來安排？目前有關於核電廠延役的問題，本席很清楚核安會跟台電主要的說法是認為核電廠內濕式貯存槽已經不敷使用，而乾式貯存槽的興建又有很多阻礙，本席在此提一個見解，你們三位專家都在這裡，就是現行核電廠貯存核廢料，有沒有可能在核四暫存？核四現在的貯存槽應該是空的吧！"],["許副總經理永輝：以目前來講，委員這個建議其實會遇到三個問題，第一個問題就是必須要管制單位同意，第二個要新北市政府同意，第三個還要當地居民同意。另外還有一個就是所有的安全分析，因為當初在核四建廠的時候並沒有所謂乾式貯存核一、核二用過的核燃料……"],["張委員嘉郡：那你們可不可以做相關的評估呢？先把評估做出來，大家才一起來想辦法克服問題嘛！因為電力的問題是影響我們國家經濟發展，甚至是人民生活品質非常重要的一環，今天三位都在，包括主委也在、次長也在，還有副總也在，是不是大家一起共同來努力解決這個問題？謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝張委員。接下來請陳培瑜委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":396,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-14","speakers":["柯志恩","洪孟楷","葛如鈞","葉元之","洪申翰","陳秀寳","萬美玲","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","林宜瑾","張雅琳","范雲","羅廷瑋","張嘉郡","陳培瑜","張智倫","林倩綺","羅智強","吳春城","楊瓊瓔","翁曉玲"],"page_start":343,"meetingDate":["2024-05-29"],"gazette_id":"1135201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135201_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽及經濟部次長列席就「展望全球核能發電趨勢，我國核電廠\n延役推動現況暨發展新型核能成為永續能源之規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1135201_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"153253","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153253","tool":"pyannote","id":"153253-pyannote"},"job_id":"oTg0HfC5UYwlcUoC","queued_at":"2024-05-30 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上 任 之 後 經 濟 部 長 郭 志 輝 說 核 能 是 乾 淨 能 源 上 任 後 一 定 會 重 新 盤 整 國 發 會 的 主 委 今 天 喔\n\n2\n00:00:34,039 --> 00:00:52,491\n劉 靜 卿 他 也 說 不 排 斥 重 啟 核 能 顯 然 我 們 現 在 整 個 經 濟 發 展 相 關 的 部 會 都 認 同 重 啟 核 能 先 請 教 主 委 請 問 核 安 會 有 沒 有 收 到 指 示 對 於 核 三 甚 至 核 二 在 研 議 做 出 砂 盤 推 演 呢 沒 有\n\n3\n00:00:54,395 --> 00:01:15,771\n沒 有 ? 完 全 沒 有 ? 那 為 什 麼 沒 有 做 呢 ? 核 安 會 負 責 核 能 安 全 總 不 能 到 了 事 情 發 生 了 才 開 始 做 主 委 是 不 是 能 夠 督 促 會 內 對 核 電 延 役 的 議 題 做 出 推 演 跟 結 論 呢 ? 那 個 跟 張 委 員 報 告 我 剛 才 講 沒 有 是 說 上 面 沒 有 交 代 我 改 變\n\n4\n00:01:37,654 --> 00:01:56,479\n更 仔 細 呢 因 為 呢 我 記 得 等 一 下 我 來 就 是 我 記 得 那 時 候 1 2 年 的 時 候 2 0 1 2 年 和 安 會 有 要 求 台 電 做 出 啟 動 同 行 審 查 p e e r r e v i e w 是 否 需 要 再 做 耐 震 補 強 要 到 報 告 出 爐 了 才 可 以 來 評 估 嘛 但 是 從 2 0 1 2 年 到 現 在 多 久 了\n\n5\n00:02:04,861 --> 00:02:22,026\n十 二 年 了 十 二 年 了 請 問 核 安 會 收 到 台 電 的 這 份 報 告 了 嗎 現 在 那 個 台 電 還 在 進 行 國 外 同 行 的 審 查 十 二 年 了 這 個 時 間 都 可 以 讀 兩 個 博 士 學 位 四 個 博 士 學 位 了 台 電 竟 然 做 不 出 一 個 報 告 做 到 核 電 廠 都 要 退 役 光 了 我 們 社 會 能 夠 接 受\n\n6\n00:02:28,348 --> 00:02:32,211\n一 份 報 告 這 麼 久 嗎 ? 和 安 會 的 主 委 你 要 為 台 電 背 書 嗎 ? 這 一 份 報 告 1 2 年 你 能 夠 接 受 嗎 ?\n\n7\n00:02:38,039 --> 00:03:01,568\n張 委 員 報 告 齁 那 個 這 個 審 查 的 r e v i e w 齁 其 實 是 很 嚴 謹 然 後 是 是 非 常 嚴 謹 做 到 這 個 核 電 廠 全 部 都 要 退 役 了 還 做 不 出 來 那 我 在 問 主 委 安 全 是 第 一 優 先 問 題 那 我 相 信 核 安 會 也 會 審 慎 評 估 我 想 要 請 教 主 委 喔 很 多 歐 美 國 家 他 們 的 核 電 廠 年 限 都 是 5 0 年 6 0 年 請 問\n\n8\n00:03:05,689 --> 00:03:30,126\n核 安 會 主 委 你 覺 得 我 們 現 行 的 核 電 廠 壽 命 是 否 可 能 延 長 我 的 理 解 所 有 的 核 電 廠 他 的 剛 開 始 的 執 照 運 轉 期 限 都 是 4 0 年 所 以 你 是 沒 有 辦 法 沒 有 辦 法 就 是 他 必 須 經 過 這 個 研 議 的 手 續 安 全 的 檢 查\n\n9\n00:03:31,587 --> 00:03:51,737\n所 以 你 覺 得 說 如 果 假 設 假 設 說 包 括 核 四 他 其 實 沒 有 實 際 運 轉 過 那 一 直 都 只 有 片 面 政 府 對 外 公 佈 的 消 息 無 法 服 眾 和 安 會 是 不 是 能 夠 考 慮 開 放 核 市 場 供 媒 體 專 家 民 意 代 表 一 般 民 眾 實 際 參 觀 讓 核 四 的 狀 況 公 開 透 明 讓 民 意 再 度 決 定 說 核 市 場 是 否 足 夠 安 全\n\n10\n00:04:02,751 --> 00:04:07,293\n市 長 , 如 果 假 設 讓 核 四 提 供 專 家 媒 體 甚 至 民 意 代 表 去 參 觀 然 後 公 開 透 明 讓 大 家 去 理 解 核 四 現 在 的 狀 態 , 市 長 同 意 嗎 ?\n\n11\n00:04:31,026 --> 00:04:45,692\n我 們 事 實 上 過 去 都 有 安 排 或 者 是 接 受 大 家 的 一 個 這 個 來 看 那 如 果 事 實 上 要 我 們 去 做 這 樣 的 一 個 評 估 我 想 台 電 可 以 願 意 來 做 這 個 評 估 台 電 也 O K 嘛 對 不 對 所 以 這 個 我 想 競 速 是 不 是 來 安 排\n\n12\n00:04:46,372 --> 00:04:51,295\n目 前 有 關 於 核 電 廠 延 役 的 問 題 本 席 很 清 楚 河 安 會 跟 台 電 主 要 的 說 法 是 認 為 核 電 廠 內 濕 式 的 儲 存 槽 已 經 不 敷 使 用 那 乾 式 的 儲 存 槽 的 興 建 又 很 多 阻 礙 本 席 提 一 個 見 解 你 們 三 位 專 家 都 在 這 裡 就 是 我 們 現 行 的 核 電 廠 純 核 廢 料\n\n13\n00:05:11,656 --> 00:05:16,815\n有 沒 有 可 能 在 核 四 暫 存 呢 ? 核 四 現 在 的 儲 存 槽 應 該 是 空 的 吧 ?\n\n14\n00:05:20,165 --> 00:05:42,115\n目 前 來 講 委 員 這 個 建 議 其 實 會 遇 到 三 個 問 題 第 一 個 問 題 大 概 就 是 說 必 須 要 管 制 單 位 同 意 第 二 個 還 要 新 北 市 政 府 同 意 第 三 個 還 要 當 地 居 民 同 意 另 外 還 有 一 個 就 是 所 有 的 安 全 分 析 呢 因 為 當 初 在 核 四 建 廠 的 時 候 呢 並 沒 有 並 沒 有 所 謂 去 存 核 一 核 二 的 乾 式 的 這 個 這 個\n\n15\n00:05:43,035 --> 00:05:47,499\n那 你 們 可 不 可 以 做 相 關 的 評 估 呢 先 做 評 估 出 來 大 家 才 一 起 來 想 辦 法 克 服 問 題 嘛 因 為 電 力 的 問 題 是 影 響 我 們 國 家 經 濟 發 展 甚 至 我 們 國 家 人 民 生 活 品 質 非 常 重 要 的 一 環 所 以 也 希 望 今 天 三 位 這 個 主 委 也 在 次 長 也 在 還 有 副 總 也 在 是 不 是 大 家 一 起 共 同 來 努 力 解 決 這 個 問 題 謝 謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7808\t10729\t主席我想請主委好我們請陳主委陳主委要不要啟用核電是經濟部的責任那管理核電廠安全呢是核安會的職責新內閣上任之後經濟部長郭志輝說核能是乾淨能源上任後一定會重新盤整國發會的主委今天喔\n34039\t52491\t劉靜卿他也說不排斥重啟核能顯然我們現在整個經濟發展相關的部會都認同重啟核能先請教主委請問核安會有沒有收到指示對於核三甚至核二在研議做出砂盤推演呢沒有\n54395\t75771\t沒有?完全沒有?那為什麼沒有做呢?核安會負責核能安全總不能到了事情發生了才開始做主委是不是能夠督促會內對核電延役的議題做出推演跟結論呢?那個跟張委員報告我剛才講沒有是說上面沒有交代我改變\n78370\t97534\t﹗\n97654\t116479\t更仔細呢因為呢我記得等一下我來就是我記得那時候12年的時候2012年和安會有要求台電做出啟動同行審查peer review是否需要再做耐震補強要到報告出爐了才可以來評估嘛但是從2012年到現在多久了\n124861\t142026\t十二年了十二年了請問核安會收到台電的這份報告了嗎現在那個台電還在進行國外同行的審查十二年了這個時間都可以讀兩個博士學位四個博士學位了台電竟然做不出一個報告做到核電廠都要退役光了我們社會能夠接受\n148348\t152211\t一份報告這麼久嗎?和安會的主委你要為台電背書嗎?這一份報告12年你能夠接受嗎?\n158039\t181568\t張委員報告齁那個這個審查的review齁其實是很嚴謹然後是是非常嚴謹做到這個核電廠全部都要退役了還做不出來那我在問主委安全是第一優先問題那我相信核安會也會審慎評估我想要請教主委喔很多歐美國家他們的核電廠年限都是50年60年請問\n185689\t210126\t核安會主委你覺得我們現行的核電廠壽命是否可能延長我的理解所有的核電廠他的剛開始的執照運轉期限都是40年所以你是沒有辦法沒有辦法就是他必須經過這個研議的手續安全的檢查\n211587\t231737\t所以你覺得說如果假設假設說包括 核四他其實沒有實際運轉過那一直都只有片面政府對外公佈的消息無法服眾和安會是不是能夠考慮開放核市場供媒體專家民意代表一般民眾實際參觀讓核四的狀況公開透明讓民意再度決定說核市場是否足夠安全\n242751\t247293\t市長,如果假設讓核四提供專家媒體甚至民意代表去參觀然後公開透明讓大家去理解核四現在的狀態,市長同意嗎?\n271026\t285692\t我們事實上過去都有安排或者是接受大家的一個這個來看那如果事實上要我們去做這樣的一個評估我想台電可以願意來做這個評估台電也OK嘛對不對所以這個我想競速是不是來安排\n286372\t291295\t目前有關於核電廠延役的問題本席很清楚河安會跟台電主要的說法是認為核電廠內濕式的儲存槽已經不敷使用那乾式的儲存槽的興建又很多阻礙本席提一個見解你們三位專家都在這裡就是我們現行的核電廠純核廢料\n311656\t316815\t有沒有可能在核四暫存呢?核四現在的儲存槽應該是空的吧?\n320165\t342115\t目前來講委員這個建議其實會遇到三個問題第一個問題大概就是說必須要管制單位同意第二個還要新北市政府同意第三個還要當地居民同意另外還有一個就是所有的安全分析呢因為當初在核四建廠的時候呢並沒有並沒有所謂去存核一核二的乾式的這個這個\n343035\t347499\t那你們可不可以做相關的評估呢先做評估出來大家才一起來想辦法克服問題嘛因為電力的問題是影響我們國家經濟發展甚至我們國家人民生活品質非常重要的一環所以也希望今天三位這個主委也在次長也在還有副總也在是不是大家一起共同來努力解決這個問題謝謝\n","txt":"主席我想請主委好我們請陳主委陳主委要不要啟用核電是經濟部的責任那管理核電廠安全呢是核安會的職責新內閣上任之後經濟部長郭志輝說核能是乾淨能源上任後一定會重新盤整國發會的主委今天喔\n劉靜卿他也說不排斥重啟核能顯然我們現在整個經濟發展相關的部會都認同重啟核能先請教主委請問核安會有沒有收到指示對於核三甚至核二在研議做出砂盤推演呢沒有\n沒有?完全沒有?那為什麼沒有做呢?核安會負責核能安全總不能到了事情發生了才開始做主委是不是能夠督促會內對核電延役的議題做出推演跟結論呢?那個跟張委員報告我剛才講沒有是說上面沒有交代我改變\n﹗\n更仔細呢因為呢我記得等一下我來就是我記得那時候12年的時候2012年和安會有要求台電做出啟動同行審查peer review是否需要再做耐震補強要到報告出爐了才可以來評估嘛但是從2012年到現在多久了\n十二年了十二年了請問核安會收到台電的這份報告了嗎現在那個台電還在進行國外同行的審查十二年了這個時間都可以讀兩個博士學位四個博士學位了台電竟然做不出一個報告做到核電廠都要退役光了我們社會能夠接受\n一份報告這麼久嗎?和安會的主委你要為台電背書嗎?這一份報告12年你能夠接受嗎?\n張委員報告齁那個這個審查的review齁其實是很嚴謹然後是是非常嚴謹做到這個核電廠全部都要退役了還做不出來那我在問主委安全是第一優先問題那我相信核安會也會審慎評估我想要請教主委喔很多歐美國家他們的核電廠年限都是50年60年請問\n核安會主委你覺得我們現行的核電廠壽命是否可能延長我的理解所有的核電廠他的剛開始的執照運轉期限都是40年所以你是沒有辦法沒有辦法就是他必須經過這個研議的手續安全的檢查\n所以你覺得說如果假設假設說包括 核四他其實沒有實際運轉過那一直都只有片面政府對外公佈的消息無法服眾和安會是不是能夠考慮開放核市場供媒體專家民意代表一般民眾實際參觀讓核四的狀況公開透明讓民意再度決定說核市場是否足夠安全\n市長,如果假設讓核四提供專家媒體甚至民意代表去參觀然後公開透明讓大家去理解核四現在的狀態,市長同意嗎?\n我們事實上過去都有安排或者是接受大家的一個這個來看那如果事實上要我們去做這樣的一個評估我想台電可以願意來做這個評估台電也OK嘛對不對所以這個我想競速是不是來安排\n目前有關於核電廠延役的問題本席很清楚河安會跟台電主要的說法是認為核電廠內濕式的儲存槽已經不敷使用那乾式的儲存槽的興建又很多阻礙本席提一個見解你們三位專家都在這裡就是我們現行的核電廠純核廢料\n有沒有可能在核四暫存呢?核四現在的儲存槽應該是空的吧?\n目前來講委員這個建議其實會遇到三個問題第一個問題大概就是說必須要管制單位同意第二個還要新北市政府同意第三個還要當地居民同意另外還有一個就是所有的安全分析呢因為當初在核四建廠的時候呢並沒有並沒有所謂去存核一核二的乾式的這個這個\n那你們可不可以做相關的評估呢先做評估出來大家才一起來想辦法克服問題嘛因為電力的問題是影響我們國家經濟發展甚至我們國家人民生活品質非常重要的一環所以也希望今天三位這個主委也在次長也在還有副總也在是不是大家一起共同來努力解決這個問題謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.808 --> 00:10.729\n主 席 我 想 請 主 委 好 我 們 請 陳 主 委 陳 主 委 要 不 要 啟 用 核 電 是 經 濟 部 的 責 任 那 管 理 核 電 廠 安 全 呢 是 核 安 會 的 職 責 新 內 閣 上 任 之 後 經 濟 部 長 郭 志 輝 說 核 能 是 乾 淨 能 源 上 任 後 一 定 會 重 新 盤 整 國 發 會 的 主 委 今 天 喔\n\n00:34.039 --> 00:52.491\n劉 靜 卿 他 也 說 不 排 斥 重 啟 核 能 顯 然 我 們 現 在 整 個 經 濟 發 展 相 關 的 部 會 都 認 同 重 啟 核 能 先 請 教 主 委 請 問 核 安 會 有 沒 有 收 到 指 示 對 於 核 三 甚 至 核 二 在 研 議 做 出 砂 盤 推 演 呢 沒 有\n\n00:54.395 --> 01:15.771\n沒 有 ? 完 全 沒 有 ? 那 為 什 麼 沒 有 做 呢 ? 核 安 會 負 責 核 能 安 全 總 不 能 到 了 事 情 發 生 了 才 開 始 做 主 委 是 不 是 能 夠 督 促 會 內 對 核 電 延 役 的 議 題 做 出 推 演 跟 結 論 呢 ? 那 個 跟 張 委 員 報 告 我 剛 才 講 沒 有 是 說 上 面 沒 有 交 代 我 改 變\n\n01:37.654 --> 01:56.479\n更 仔 細 呢 因 為 呢 我 記 得 等 一 下 我 來 就 是 我 記 得 那 時 候 1 2 年 的 時 候 2 0 1 2 年 和 安 會 有 要 求 台 電 做 出 啟 動 同 行 審 查 p e e r r e v i e w 是 否 需 要 再 做 耐 震 補 強 要 到 報 告 出 爐 了 才 可 以 來 評 估 嘛 但 是 從 2 0 1 2 年 到 現 在 多 久 了\n\n02:04.861 --> 02:22.026\n十 二 年 了 十 二 年 了 請 問 核 安 會 收 到 台 電 的 這 份 報 告 了 嗎 現 在 那 個 台 電 還 在 進 行 國 外 同 行 的 審 查 十 二 年 了 這 個 時 間 都 可 以 讀 兩 個 博 士 學 位 四 個 博 士 學 位 了 台 電 竟 然 做 不 出 一 個 報 告 做 到 核 電 廠 都 要 退 役 光 了 我 們 社 會 能 夠 接 受\n\n02:28.348 --> 02:32.211\n一 份 報 告 這 麼 久 嗎 ? 和 安 會 的 主 委 你 要 為 台 電 背 書 嗎 ? 這 一 份 報 告 1 2 年 你 能 夠 接 受 嗎 ?\n\n02:38.039 --> 03:01.568\n張 委 員 報 告 齁 那 個 這 個 審 查 的 r e v i e w 齁 其 實 是 很 嚴 謹 然 後 是 是 非 常 嚴 謹 做 到 這 個 核 電 廠 全 部 都 要 退 役 了 還 做 不 出 來 那 我 在 問 主 委 安 全 是 第 一 優 先 問 題 那 我 相 信 核 安 會 也 會 審 慎 評 估 我 想 要 請 教 主 委 喔 很 多 歐 美 國 家 他 們 的 核 電 廠 年 限 都 是 5 0 年 6 0 年 請 問\n\n03:05.689 --> 03:30.126\n核 安 會 主 委 你 覺 得 我 們 現 行 的 核 電 廠 壽 命 是 否 可 能 延 長 我 的 理 解 所 有 的 核 電 廠 他 的 剛 開 始 的 執 照 運 轉 期 限 都 是 4 0 年 所 以 你 是 沒 有 辦 法 沒 有 辦 法 就 是 他 必 須 經 過 這 個 研 議 的 手 續 安 全 的 檢 查\n\n03:31.587 --> 03:51.737\n所 以 你 覺 得 說 如 果 假 設 假 設 說 包 括 核 四 他 其 實 沒 有 實 際 運 轉 過 那 一 直 都 只 有 片 面 政 府 對 外 公 佈 的 消 息 無 法 服 眾 和 安 會 是 不 是 能 夠 考 慮 開 放 核 市 場 供 媒 體 專 家 民 意 代 表 一 般 民 眾 實 際 參 觀 讓 核 四 的 狀 況 公 開 透 明 讓 民 意 再 度 決 定 說 核 市 場 是 否 足 夠 安 全\n\n04:02.751 --> 04:07.293\n市 長 , 如 果 假 設 讓 核 四 提 供 專 家 媒 體 甚 至 民 意 代 表 去 參 觀 然 後 公 開 透 明 讓 大 家 去 理 解 核 四 現 在 的 狀 態 , 市 長 同 意 嗎 ?\n\n04:31.026 --> 04:45.692\n我 們 事 實 上 過 去 都 有 安 排 或 者 是 接 受 大 家 的 一 個 這 個 來 看 那 如 果 事 實 上 要 我 們 去 做 這 樣 的 一 個 評 估 我 想 台 電 可 以 願 意 來 做 這 個 評 估 台 電 也 O K 嘛 對 不 對 所 以 這 個 我 想 競 速 是 不 是 來 安 排\n\n04:46.372 --> 04:51.295\n目 前 有 關 於 核 電 廠 延 役 的 問 題 本 席 很 清 楚 河 安 會 跟 台 電 主 要 的 說 法 是 認 為 核 電 廠 內 濕 式 的 儲 存 槽 已 經 不 敷 使 用 那 乾 式 的 儲 存 槽 的 興 建 又 很 多 阻 礙 本 席 提 一 個 見 解 你 們 三 位 專 家 都 在 這 裡 就 是 我 們 現 行 的 核 電 廠 純 核 廢 料\n\n05:11.656 --> 05:16.815\n有 沒 有 可 能 在 核 四 暫 存 呢 ? 核 四 現 在 的 儲 存 槽 應 該 是 空 的 吧 ?\n\n05:20.165 --> 05:42.115\n目 前 來 講 委 員 這 個 建 議 其 實 會 遇 到 三 個 問 題 第 一 個 問 題 大 概 就 是 說 必 須 要 管 制 單 位 同 意 第 二 個 還 要 新 北 市 政 府 同 意 第 三 個 還 要 當 地 居 民 同 意 另 外 還 有 一 個 就 是 所 有 的 安 全 分 析 呢 因 為 當 初 在 核 四 建 廠 的 時 候 呢 並 沒 有 並 沒 有 所 謂 去 存 核 一 核 二 的 乾 式 的 這 個 這 個\n\n05:43.035 --> 05:47.499\n那 你 們 可 不 可 以 做 相 關 的 評 估 呢 先 做 評 估 出 來 大 家 才 一 起 來 想 辦 法 克 服 問 題 嘛 因 為 電 力 的 問 題 是 影 響 我 們 國 家 經 濟 發 展 甚 至 我 們 國 家 人 民 生 活 品 質 非 常 重 要 的 一 環 所 以 也 希 望 今 天 三 位 這 個 主 委 也 在 次 長 也 在 還 有 副 總 也 在 是 不 是 大 家 一 起 共 同 來 努 力 解 決 這 個 問 題 謝 謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.808,"end":10.729,"text":"主席我想請主委好我們請陳主委陳主委要不要啟用核電是經濟部的責任那管理核電廠安全呢是核安會的職責新內閣上任之後經濟部長郭志輝說核能是乾淨能源上任後一定會重新盤整國發會的主委今天喔"},{"start":34.039,"end":52.491,"text":"劉靜卿他也說不排斥重啟核能顯然我們現在整個經濟發展相關的部會都認同重啟核能先請教主委請問核安會有沒有收到指示對於核三甚至核二在研議做出砂盤推演呢沒有"},{"start":54.395,"end":75.771,"text":"沒有?完全沒有?那為什麼沒有做呢?核安會負責核能安全總不能到了事情發生了才開始做主委是不是能夠督促會內對核電延役的議題做出推演跟結論呢?那個跟張委員報告我剛才講沒有是說上面沒有交代我改變"},{"start":78.37,"end":97.534,"text":"﹗"},{"start":97.654,"end":116.479,"text":"更仔細呢因為呢我記得等一下我來就是我記得那時候12年的時候2012年和安會有要求台電做出啟動同行審查peer review是否需要再做耐震補強要到報告出爐了才可以來評估嘛但是從2012年到現在多久了"},{"start":124.861,"end":142.026,"text":"十二年了十二年了請問核安會收到台電的這份報告了嗎現在那個台電還在進行國外同行的審查十二年了這個時間都可以讀兩個博士學位四個博士學位了台電竟然做不出一個報告做到核電廠都要退役光了我們社會能夠接受"},{"start":148.348,"end":152.211,"text":"一份報告這麼久嗎?和安會的主委你要為台電背書嗎?這一份報告12年你能夠接受嗎?"},{"start":158.039,"end":181.568,"text":"張委員報告齁那個這個審查的review齁其實是很嚴謹然後是是非常嚴謹做到這個核電廠全部都要退役了還做不出來那我在問主委安全是第一優先問題那我相信核安會也會審慎評估我想要請教主委喔很多歐美國家他們的核電廠年限都是50年60年請問"},{"start":185.689,"end":210.126,"text":"核安會主委你覺得我們現行的核電廠壽命是否可能延長我的理解所有的核電廠他的剛開始的執照運轉期限都是40年所以你是沒有辦法沒有辦法就是他必須經過這個研議的手續安全的檢查"},{"start":211.587,"end":231.737,"text":"所以你覺得說如果假設假設說包括 核四他其實沒有實際運轉過那一直都只有片面政府對外公佈的消息無法服眾和安會是不是能夠考慮開放核市場供媒體專家民意代表一般民眾實際參觀讓核四的狀況公開透明讓民意再度決定說核市場是否足夠安全"},{"start":242.751,"end":247.293,"text":"市長,如果假設讓核四提供專家媒體甚至民意代表去參觀然後公開透明讓大家去理解核四現在的狀態,市長同意嗎?"},{"start":271.026,"end":285.692,"text":"我們事實上過去都有安排或者是接受大家的一個這個來看那如果事實上要我們去做這樣的一個評估我想台電可以願意來做這個評估台電也OK嘛對不對所以這個我想競速是不是來安排"},{"start":286.372,"end":291.295,"text":"目前有關於核電廠延役的問題本席很清楚河安會跟台電主要的說法是認為核電廠內濕式的儲存槽已經不敷使用那乾式的儲存槽的興建又很多阻礙本席提一個見解你們三位專家都在這裡就是我們現行的核電廠純核廢料"},{"start":311.656,"end":316.815,"text":"有沒有可能在核四暫存呢?核四現在的儲存槽應該是空的吧?"},{"start":320.165,"end":342.115,"text":"目前來講委員這個建議其實會遇到三個問題第一個問題大概就是說必須要管制單位同意第二個還要新北市政府同意第三個還要當地居民同意另外還有一個就是所有的安全分析呢因為當初在核四建廠的時候呢並沒有並沒有所謂去存核一核二的乾式的這個這個"},{"start":343.035,"end":347.499,"text":"那你們可不可以做相關的評估呢先做評估出來大家才一起來想辦法克服問題嘛因為電力的問題是影響我們國家經濟發展甚至我們國家人民生活品質非常重要的一環所以也希望今天三位這個主委也在次長也在還有副總也在是不是大家一起共同來努力解決這個問題謝謝"}]}}}}