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11:06:52","影片長度":"00:10:18","會議時間":"2024-05-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：邀請內政部部長率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","date":"2024-05-29","duration":618,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第20次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":20,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-20"},"end_time":"2024-05-29T11:06:52+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-29T10:56:34+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":578,"blocks":[["張委員智倫：（10時56分）主席、各位委員、各位官員，大家早安、大家好。有請部長。"],["主席：有請部長，謝謝。"],["劉部長世芳：張委員，你好。"],["張委員智倫：部長好。恭喜你擔任新任的內政部長，期待未來朝野和諧，我們一起努力來為國人打拼。首先跟部長報告，昨天院會通過了國會改革五法，經過了四次院會，大家都非常辛苦，這邊想要先跟部長請教，你支持國會改革嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：我支持在合憲範圍下的國會改革。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝部長。部長，我這邊有查到一個資料，就在2015年8月17日，當時蔡英文政府準備要競選總統的時候，他有到高雄去拜會陳菊，當時你是要參選立法委員，那時候蔡英文政府有推一個五大改革，其中一個就是啟動國會改革，我這邊唸一段給你聽，當時蔡英文政府講了一段有關於國會改革的內容是：民進黨不會因為有機會執政，就排斥國會的制衡，國會對行政部門的監督力量一定要有力而專業，而讓行政、立法的民主制衡關係能相輔相成。國會應該是總統的鏡子，在野黨也不應該看成執政黨的敵人。他還特別講到，未來如果當時的蔡英文參選人擔任總統，他絕不害怕國會監督，因為他不會是一個獨行獨斷的總統，也不會是一個拒絕民意的總統，更不會是一個維護一黨之私的總統。當時你在參選立法委員，後來也順利當選，我希望大家可以一起來努力，針對國會改革來往前行。","可是很可惜地，我們看到行政院昨天晚上在臉書上發布說，對國會改革的部分，他說要移請立法院覆議，以及他尊重民進黨黨團三讀通過後要釋憲的決定。我是覺得非常遺憾，行政院感覺起來好像已經有準備就要對國會改革來提出意見。我也有針對行政院的內容仔細地去研讀，他對國會改革五法裡面的國情報告、藐視國會、人事同意權以及調查權都有意見，其中唯一一個沒有提出意見的就是聽證權的部分，可能在聽證權的部分，他們現在是比較有一致的共識啦！所以我這邊也希望部長，在未來禮拜五院會的時候，可以幫不管是在野黨或當時的蔡英文前總統一起來發聲，要記得當時民進黨是支持國會改革的，而且他有一段論述，我相信當時您也在現場，我希望部長可以來幫忙、來協助。","第二個我要拜託部長來回答的部分就是說，在審查國會改革法案的時候在院外聚集了非常多的年輕人，他們將這次的行動稱為青鳥行動，在這個行動中，我相信民眾去大型的集會場所都是正常的，我們也予以尊重，我是不是請警政署長可以一起來幫忙回答？"],["主席：請警政署署長。"],["張委員智倫：民進黨政策會的執行長王義川先生說，民進黨已經透過手機的電信信令服務對在現場民眾的資訊做一些確認，那我想要問的就是，必須讓民眾免於恐懼，民眾在參加大型聚會的時候，到底有什麼樣的資訊可以被一些廠商、一些特定團體或是一般民眾查詢到？"],["張署長榮興：報告委員，我們警察在執行群眾活動勤務的時候，絕對不會用手機去做群眾的定位，絕對沒有這些相關的問題。"],["張委員智倫：他當時說他可以針對手機的信令服務去查年齡層，做群眾組成的分析。"],["張署長榮興：這個我就不清楚，警察在處理群眾活動時，我們在維持群眾的秩序……"],["張委員智倫：我要跟署長報告，他甚至能夠分析出來這些群眾跟1月多民眾黨在選舉時自稱「小草」的民眾是不同的人。"],["張署長榮興：我們絕對不會去做這種事。"],["張委員智倫：那我請教一下署長跟部長，到底是什麼樣的單位或什麼樣的人有辦法去取得這樣的細部資料？我相信這是全民想要瞭解的，比如我今天去參加一個大型的活動，結果我的姓名被知道了，我的年紀也被知道了，如果只是知道人數是還可以，可是我會擔心我有參加過小草活動的這些資訊被透露出來，到底誰有能力去把這些資訊找出來，部長知道嗎？"],["張署長榮興：委員，這個我不清楚，我們絕對不會用手機去做這樣的事情。"],["張委員智倫：我請教一下，什麼單位可以去取得這樣的資料？部長知道嗎？因為他的確有在新聞媒體上說，我相信不需要我原音重現，他說：這些人跟原來的小草，我們有去比對過，他跟原來這些517在民進黨樓下的那些小草的訊號比起來，也不同人啊！"],["劉部長世芳：報告張委員，我們在處理群眾活動的時候，我們都是注重警政如何維持現場的秩序，至於說有沒有後續、後端有人取得他們這些所謂的電訊資料，我們真的是不清楚，我真的是不清楚。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝部長。當然我相信王先生講的是事實，所以我要拜託行政部門，針對民眾未來參加大型活動的資訊是不是有外洩，他跟一些民間團體在聯絡的時候是不是有取得一些機密的資料，他才可以這樣子去做一些分析，行政單位是不是要針對這些內容去做一個查核？我覺得這樣才可以讓民眾未來在參加一些大型活動的時候可以免於恐懼，不然我去參加活動的時候，網路上還說就好像老大哥在監視你一樣，人民沒有隱私權，我認為這樣是非常不正確的一個行為，拜託部長還有署長要讓人民免於恐懼，好不好？今天部長好像沒辦法回應我任何的問題，現在資訊非常的發達，人民的個資不應該被洩漏，所以要拜託部長，你不能就這樣無言以對啦！","接下來，我相信今天大家都非常注意新竹消防員的事情，我相信對於警消權益的問題我們都非常的重視，就我本身的瞭解，我們對警消人員所擔心的一個點就是他們的預算員額能不能增加，顧名思義就是說，假設今天警消人員的預算員額要200個人，那應聘的人到底是多少？比如說應聘是190個人，但是當時很多警消人員可能因為個人因素、家庭因素、健康因素而離職，可能到最後只有180個人，所以有很多警政單位現在第一線人員的人數是缺乏的。當然我們立法委員沒有辦法要求行政單位去增加預算，可是我要拜託警消單位，你們是不是在預算員額的部分可以做增加？簡單來講，就是讓預算員額的人數可以增加，未來我們的警消人員可以更充足，就可以解決過去大家常常講的員額不足、預算不足、設備不足裡面的員額不足這個問題，是不是請部長回答一下？"],["劉部長世芳：謝謝張委員對於警消的協助跟幫忙，我們會跟地方政府共同來討論這個部分，但是重要的是預算員額是有的，問題是怎麼樣補足，像剛剛我們有提到消防員要有進用資格的話，要先通過考試院的考試，那上次考試院所舉行考試的錄取率非常低，所以現在的重點是怎麼樣把錄取率提高，因為我們是要求合格的消防員才可以補足消防的人員，對這一點我們一定來加強，尤其在新竹這個事情發生之後，我們有顯現出這樣子的弱點，針對這個弱點，我們也已經跟考試院做比較好的協調，在下一次舉行關於消防員的考試時，儘量以提高錄取率的方式來補足員額不足的地方。"],["張委員智倫：對，所以我要拜託部長，我強烈要求部長跟兩位署長一定要提供本席相關資料，就是過去這3年你們的預算員額、實際應聘的員額，跟過了一年、兩年以後是不是整體消防員、警察人數有下降。我還是要提出來，如果預算員額增加，其實就會有備用人力、訓練人力，如果其中有部分單位的人數不足，就可以補充過去，我覺得這樣才可以部分的去改善所有警消人員在執勤上的危險，請問你們還有沒有什麼要補充的？現在有沒有這樣的情形？"],["張署長榮興：我想員額這個部分也是配合地方縣市政府的預算來做整體的考量，我們會再做通盤的檢討。"],["張委員智倫：好，大概多久可以把書面報告給本席？"],["張署長榮興：書面報告？"],["張委員智倫：對，就是過去3年的。"],["張署長榮興：大概1個月可以嗎？"],["張委員智倫：好，可以，謝謝署長，謝謝部長。"],["主席：謝謝張智倫委員的質詢，謝謝部長，謝謝兩位署長。繼續我們請丁學忠委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":334,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-20","speakers":["高金素梅","蘇巧慧","許宇甄","牛煦庭","張宏陸","王美惠","李柏毅","麥玉珍","黃捷","黃建賓","張智倫","丁學忠","徐欣瑩","吳琪銘","鄭天財Sra 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\"start\": 108.283, \"end\": 108.623, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 108.623, \"end\": 108.723, \"score\": 0.706}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 108.723, \"end\": 108.743, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"昨\", \"start\": 108.743, \"end\": 108.884, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 108.884, \"end\": 109.064, \"score\": 0.753}, {\"word\": \"晚\", \"start\": 109.064, \"end\": 109.224, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 109.224, \"end\": 109.244, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 126.778, \"end\": 153.175, \"text\": \"就發布了在臉書上發布說他對國會改革的部分他說要移請他要移請這個立法院來復議以及他尊重民進黨黨團的三讀通過的這個後他要要求他也尊重這個民進黨黨團要釋憲那我這邊是覺得非常的遺憾這個行政院感覺起來好像已經事有準備了就要對國會改革來提出這個意見\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 126.778, \"end\": 127.158, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"布\", \"start\": 127.158, \"end\": 127.298, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 127.298, \"end\": 127.438, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 127.438, \"end\": 127.839, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"忙\", \"start\": 219.905, \"end\": 220.085, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 220.085, \"end\": 220.165, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 220.165, \"end\": 220.185, \"score\": 0.999}]}, {\"start\": 220.845, \"end\": 233.777, \"text\": \"在現場的時候民進黨的政治會執行長王毅川先生說他可以針對民進黨已經透過手機的這個電信信令的服務來去對這個民眾的資訊來去做一些確認\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 220.845, \"end\": 221.386, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"場\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 221.386, \"end\": 221.686, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 221.686, \"end\": 222.747, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 222.747, \"end\": 223.147, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 223.147, \"end\": 223.307, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 223.307, \"end\": 223.447, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"治\", \"start\": 223.447, \"end\": 223.868, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, 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228.392, \"end\": 229.513, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"手\", \"start\": 229.513, \"end\": 230.033, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 230.033, \"end\": 230.574, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"信\", \"start\": 230.574, \"end\": 231.334, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"信\", \"start\": 231.334, \"end\": 232.075, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"令\", \"start\": 232.075, \"end\": 232.235, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 232.235, \"end\": 232.435, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"服\", \"start\": 232.435, \"end\": 232.576, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 232.576, \"end\": 233.036, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 233.036, \"end\": 233.116, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"眾\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 233.116, \"end\": 233.176, \"score\": 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\"草\", \"start\": 285.495, \"end\": 286.176, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 286.176, \"end\": 286.296, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 286.296, \"end\": 286.716, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"眾\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 286.716, \"end\": 286.856, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 286.856, \"end\": 287.536, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 287.536, \"end\": 287.677, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 287.677, \"end\": 287.797, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 287.797, \"end\": 288.097, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 288.097, \"end\": 288.617, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 288.617, \"end\": 288.737, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 288.737, \"end\": 289.117, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 289.117, \"end\": 289.318, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 289.318, \"end\": 289.418, \"score\": 0.815}, 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{\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 616.145, \"end\": 616.366, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"智\", \"start\": 616.366, \"end\": 616.528, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"倫\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 616.528, \"end\": 616.548, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"en\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,463 --> 00:00:09,889\n主 席 各 位 委 員 各 位 官 員 大 家 早 安 大 家 好 有 請 部 長 有 請 部 長 謝 謝\n\n2\n00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:44,261\n張 委 員 你 好 部 長 好 恭 喜 你 擔 任 我 們 新 任 的 這 個 內 政 部 長 那 期 待 未 來 這 個 朝 野 和 諧 那 你 可 以 我 們 一 起 努 力 來 為 我 們 國 人 一 起 來 打 拼 那 首 先 跟 這 個 部 長 報 告 在 昨 天 這 個 我 們 院 會 有 通 過 了 國 會 改 革 的 無 法 經 過 了 四 次 院 會 大 家 都 非 常 辛 苦 那 這 邊 要 想 要 先 跟 部 長 請 教 你 支 持 國 會 改 革 嗎 我 支 持 在 合 憲 範 圍 下 的 國 會 改 革\n\n3\n00:00:46,001 --> 00:01:02,195\n好 謝 謝 部 長 部 長 我 這 邊 有 查 到 一 個 資 料 就 在 2 0 1 5 年 的 8 月 1 7 號 那 時 候 蔡 英 文 政 府 當 時 在 準 備 要 競 選 這 個 總 統 的 時 候 他 有 到 高 雄 來 去 拜 會 就 是 來 跟 陳 菊 那 時 候 你 是 當 時 是 要 參 選 立 法 委 員\n\n4\n00:01:03,296 --> 00:01:19,108\n當 時 蔡 英 文 政 府 她 就 有 推 她 有 一 個 五 大 改 革 其 中 一 個 就 是 啟 動 這 個 國 會 改 革 那 我 這 邊 唸 一 段 給 你 聽 齁 那 當 時 蔡 英 文 政 府 她 講 了 一 段 關 於 國 會 改 革 的 內 容 是 說 民 進 黨 不 會 因 為 有 機 會 執 政 就 排 斥 國 會 的 制 衡\n\n5\n00:01:20,068 --> 00:01:46,522\n國 會 對 行 政 部 門 的 監 督 力 量 一 定 要 專 業 而 有 力 而 專 業 而 讓 行 政 立 法 的 民 主 制 衡 關 係 能 相 輔 相 成 國 會 應 該 是 總 統 的 禁 止 在 野 黨 也 不 應 該 看 成 執 政 黨 的 敵 人 那 還 有 特 別 要 講 未 來 如 果 當 時 的 蔡 英 文 參 選 人 擔 任 總 統 絕 不 害 怕 國 會 監 督 因 為 他 不 會 是 一 個 獨 行 獨 斷 的 總 統 也 不 會 是 一 個 拒 絕 民 意 的 總 統 更 不 會 是 一 個 維 護 一 黨 之 勢 的 總 統\n\n6\n00:01:48,283 --> 00:01:49,244\n行 政 院 昨 天 晚 上\n\n7\n00:02:06,778 --> 00:02:33,175\n就 發 布 了 在 臉 書 上 發 布 說 他 對 國 會 改 革 的 部 分 他 說 要 移 請 他 要 移 請 這 個 立 法 院 來 復 議 以 及 他 尊 重 民 進 黨 黨 團 的 三 讀 通 過 的 這 個 後 他 要 要 求 他 也 尊 重 這 個 民 進 黨 黨 團 要 釋 憲 那 我 這 邊 是 覺 得 非 常 的 遺 憾 這 個 行 政 院 感 覺 起 來 好 像 已 經 事 有 準 備 了 就 要 對 國 會 改 革 來 提 出 這 個 意 見\n\n8\n00:02:34,136 --> 00:02:49,373\n那 這 邊 我 也 是 針 對 這 個 行 政 院 的 內 容 仔 細 的 去 研 讀 他 對 國 情 報 告 國 會 改 革 無 法 裡 面 的 國 情 報 告 藐 視 國 會 人 事 同 意 權 以 及 調 查 權 都 有 意 見 其 中 唯 一 一 個 他 沒 有 提 出 意 見 就 是 聽 證 權 的 部 分 那 相 信\n\n9\n00:02:50,074 --> 00:03:11,178\n可 能 現 在 在 聽 政 權 的 部 分 他 們 現 在 是 比 較 有 一 致 的 貢 獻 所 以 這 邊 也 希 望 部 長 在 未 來 禮 拜 四 的 院 會 的 時 候 可 以 幫 這 個 不 管 是 在 野 黨 或 當 時 的 蔡 英 文 前 總 統 一 起 來 發 聲 記 得 說 當 時 民 進 黨 是 支 持 國 會 改 革 的 而 且 還 有 一 段 論 述 那 當 時 我 相 信 您 在 現 場 所 以 希 望 這 個 部 長 可 以 來 幫 忙 來 協 助\n\n10\n00:03:15,279 --> 00:03:40,185\n那 第 二 個 我 要 帶 部 長 來 回 答 的 部 分 就 是 說 在 這 個 國 會 改 革 的 時 候 我 相 信 在 院 外 聚 集 了 非 常 多 的 這 個 年 輕 人 那 他 們 稱 我 這 次 的 行 動 叫 做 親 鳥 行 動 那 這 個 行 動 中 我 相 信 民 眾 去 大 型 的 集 會 場 所 都 是 正 常 的 讓 我 們 予 以 尊 重 那 可 是 在 現 場 的 時 候 我 是 請 這 個 警 政 署 長 可 以 一 起 來 幫 忙 一 下\n\n11\n00:03:40,845 --> 00:03:53,777\n在 現 場 的 時 候 民 進 黨 的 政 治 會 執 行 長 王 毅 川 先 生 說 他 可 以 針 對 民 進 黨 已 經 透 過 手 機 的 這 個 電 信 信 令 的 服 務 來 去 對 這 個 民 眾 的 資 訊 來 去 做 一 些 確 認\n\n12\n00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:11,436\n那 我 想 要 問 就 是 民 眾 必 須 免 於 恐 懼 到 底 民 眾 參 加 大 型 聚 會 的 時 候 有 什 麼 樣 的 資 訊 會 對 一 些 廠 商 或 對 一 些 特 定 團 體 或 是 一 般 民 眾 都 可 以 查 詢 到 的 嗎\n\n13\n00:04:12,937 --> 00:04:32,547\n報 告 委 員 我 們 警 察 在 執 行 群 眾 活 動 的 時 候 絕 對 不 會 用 手 機 去 做 定 位 群 眾 的 這 些 相 關 的 問 題 絕 對 沒 有 那 請 問 他 當 時 說 他 可 以 去 針 對 手 機 的 這 個 性 命 服 務 去 查 年 齡 層 跟 群 眾 組 成 的 分 析 這 個 我 就 不 清 楚 那 警 察 的 這 個 部 分 在 處 理 群 眾 我 們\n\n14\n00:04:34,107 --> 00:04:55,322\n我 要 跟 署 長 報 告 說 他 甚 至 能 夠 來 分 析 出 來 說 這 些 的 群 眾 跟 當 時 小 草 一 月 多 民 眾 黨 在 選 舉 的 時 候 的 小 草 的 民 眾 的 人 是 不 同 的 那 我 請 教 一 下 我 們 絕 對 不 會 去 做 這 種 那 我 請 教 一 下 署 長 跟 部 長\n\n15\n00:04:55,942 --> 00:05:24,075\n到 底 什 麼 樣 的 單 位 或 什 麼 樣 的 人 有 辦 法 去 取 得 這 樣 的 細 部 的 資 料 我 相 信 這 是 全 民 要 去 了 解 的 比 如 我 今 天 去 參 加 一 個 大 型 的 活 動 結 果 我 的 姓 名 也 被 知 道 了 我 的 這 個 年 紀 也 被 知 道 了 我 的 這 個 人 數 人 數 知 道 是 還 可 以 可 是 他 會 擔 心 說 我 有 沒 有 參 加 過 小 草 活 動 的 這 些 資 訊 為 什 麼 會 被 透 露 出 來 到 底 誰 有 能 力 去 把 這 些 資 訊 給 找 出 來\n\n16\n00:05:26,677 --> 00:05:52,879\n這 個 我 不 清 楚 , 我 們 絕 對 不 會 去 用 手 機 去 做 那 我 請 教 一 下 那 什 麼 單 位 可 以 去 取 得 這 樣 的 資 料 ? 部 長 知 道 嗎 ? 因 為 的 確 他 在 新 聞 頂 上 解 說 他 說 我 相 信 不 要 不 需 要 我 原 因 重 現 啦 就 是 說 他 說 這 個 他 說 原 來 這 些 人 跟 原 來 的 小 草 沒 有 去 比 對 過 他 跟 原 來 這 些 5 1 7 在 民 進 黨 樓 下 那 些 草 草 去 跟 他 比 起 來 也 不 同 人 啊\n\n17\n00:05:55,142 --> 00:06:09,127\n報 告 張 委 員 我 們 在 處 理 這 個 群 眾 活 動 的 時 候 呢 我 們 都 是 注 重 這 個 警 政 如 何 維 持 現 場 的 次 序 至 於 說 有 沒 有 後 續 後 端 有 人 處 理 這 些 所 謂 的 電 訊 資 料 取 得 他 們 這 些 我 們 真 的 是 不 清 楚\n\n18\n00:06:09,907 --> 00:06:14,093\n王 先 生 講 的 是 事 實 , 所 以 我 是 不 是 可 以 拜 託 行 政 部 門 的 時 候 , 針 對 民 眾 未 來 去 參 加 大 型 活 動 , 他 的 資 訊 是 不 是 有 外 洩 , 他 跟 一 些 民 間 團 體\n\n19\n00:06:25,310 --> 00:06:43,753\n在 聯 絡 的 時 候 是 不 是 有 取 得 一 些 機 密 的 資 料 他 才 可 以 這 樣 子 來 去 做 一 些 分 析 那 我 相 信 憑 證 單 位 這 邊 是 不 是 要 針 對 這 些 的 內 容 來 去 做 一 個 查 核 我 覺 得 這 樣 子 才 可 以 讓 民 眾 未 來 去 參 加 一 些 大 型 活 動 的 時 候 可 以 免 於 恐 懼 不 然 我 什 麼 時 候 去 參 加 活 動 的 時 候\n\n20\n00:06:44,594 --> 00:07:09,650\n但 我 相 信 這 個 網 路 上 還 在 說 就 好 像 在 老 大 哥 在 監 視 你 一 樣 人 民 沒 有 隱 私 權 我 認 為 這 樣 是 非 常 不 正 確 的 一 個 行 為 好 不 好 拜 託 部 長 這 邊 還 有 署 長 這 邊 要 讓 人 民 免 於 恐 懼 那 今 天 部 長 這 邊 好 像 沒 辦 法 回 應 我 任 何 的 問 題 所 以 我 相 信 說 現 在 資 訊 非 常 的 發 達 人 民 的 個 資 不 應 該 被 外 露 所 以 這 拜 託 部 長 不 能 就 跟 我 默 默 無 言 以 對\n\n21\n00:07:10,811 --> 00:07:30,604\n那 接 下 來 我 相 信 今 天 大 家 都 非 常 注 意 的 就 是 這 個 新 竹 消 防 員 的 事 情 那 我 相 信 很 多 有 關 於 這 個 警 消 的 權 益 的 問 題 我 們 都 非 常 的 重 視 那 這 邊 我 是 不 是 可 以 拜 託 就 我 本 身 的 了 解 我 們 這 個 在 警 消 人 員 的 時 候 我 擔 心 的 一 個 點 就 是 說 我 們 的 預 算 原 額 的 部 分 能 不 能 去 做 增 加\n\n22\n00:07:31,584 --> 00:07:55,550\n顧 名 思 義 就 是 說 假 設 今 天 這 個 警 消 的 人 員 預 算 原 額 假 設 要 2 0 0 個 人 是 應 聘 的 人 到 底 是 多 少 比 如 說 應 聘 是 1 9 0 個 人 那 在 遇 到 這 些 可 能 當 時 很 多 的 這 些 警 消 人 員 可 能 因 為 個 人 因 素 家 庭 因 素 健 康 因 素 而 離 職 的 可 能 到 最 後 只 有 1 8 0 個 人 所 以 顧 名 思 義 很 多 我 們 警 政 單 位 現 在 第 一 線 的 服 務 人 員 人 數 是 缺 乏 的\n\n23\n00:07:56,030 --> 00:07:57,952\n是 不 是 請 部 長 回 答 一 下 ?\n\n24\n00:08:21,690 --> 00:08:46,021\n謝 謝 張 委 員 對 於 警 消 的 這 個 協 助 跟 幫 忙 我 們 會 跟 地 方 政 府 共 同 來 討 論 這 個 部 分 但 是 重 要 的 是 預 算 原 額 是 有 的 怎 麼 樣 補 足 像 剛 剛 我 們 有 提 到 消 防 員 呢 他 們 要 有 禁 用 的 這 個 資 格 的 話 要 經 過 考 試 院 的 這 個 考 試 那 上 次 考 試 院 的 考 試 呢 錄 取 率 非 常 的 低 那 現 在 怎 麼 樣 把 錄 取 率 提 高 因 為 我 們 是 合 格 的 消 防 員 才 可 以 上 這 個 消 防 的 人 員 的 這 個 補 足\n\n25\n00:08:50,664 --> 00:09:04,378\n新 竹 事 件 發 生 後 , 我 們 有 顯 現 出 這 樣 的 弱 點 , 這 個 弱 點 我 們 也 跟 考 試 院 已 經 做 比 較 好 的 協 調 , 在 下 一 次 有 關 於 消 防 員 的 考 試 的 時 候 , 盡 量 以 提 高 錄 取 率 的 方 式 來 補 足 緣 而 不 足 的 地 方 。\n\n26\n00:09:04,918 --> 00:09:33,582\n對 , 所 以 部 長 這 邊 我 拜 託 主 席 再 一 下 下 所 以 這 邊 拜 託 部 長 所 以 我 這 邊 這 是 強 烈 的 要 求 就 是 說 部 長 跟 兩 位 署 長 這 邊 一 定 要 提 供 本 席 就 是 過 去 以 來 可 能 這 三 年 你 們 的 這 個 預 算 員 額 跟 實 際 應 聘 的 員 額 跟 實 際 應 聘 員 額 過 了 一 年 兩 年 了 以 後 是 不 是 整 體 消 防 員 警 察 人 數 有 下 降 所 以 我 這 邊 還 是 要 提 出 我 如 果 預 算 員 額 增 加 其 實 它 就 是 有 個 備 用 人 力 訓 練 人 力 的 一 個 單 位 它 是 可 以 補 足 說 如 果 其 中\n\n27\n00:09:34,182 --> 00:09:45,517\n有 部 分 的 這 個 單 位 是 人 數 不 足 的 時 候 他 可 以 補 充 過 去 我 覺 得 這 才 可 以 部 分 的 去 改 善 所 有 我 們 警 消 人 員 他 在 執 行 上 的 危 險 所 以 還 有 沒 有 什 麼 要 補 充 的 嗎\n\n28\n00:09:47,478 --> 00:10:14,158\n現 在 有 沒 有 這 樣 的 情 形 我 想 這 個 原 額 這 個 部 分 呢 也 是 配 合 地 方 縣 市 政 府 的 預 算 來 做 一 個 衡 量 整 體 的 一 個 考 量 那 我 們 會 再 做 這 個 通 盤 的 這 個 檢 討 好 是 不 是 有 沒 有 時 間 大 概 多 久 可 以 把 這 個 書 面 報 告 給 本 席 書 面 報 告 那 是 不 是 過 去 三 年 了 大 概 一 個 月 可 以 嗎 好 可 以 可 以 好 謝 謝 署 長 謝 謝 謝 謝 部 長\n\n29\n00:10:16,145 --> 00:10:16,548\n好 謝 謝 張 智 倫 委 員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6463\t9889\t主席 各位委員 各位官員 大家早安 大家好 有請部長有請部長 謝謝\n17160\t44261\t張委員你好部長好恭喜你擔任我們新任的這個內政部長那期待未來這個朝野和諧那你可以我們一起努力來為我們國人一起來打拼那首先跟這個部長報告在昨天這個我們院會有通過了國會改革的無法經過了四次院會大家都非常辛苦那這邊要想要先跟部長請教你支持國會改革嗎我支持在合憲範圍下的國會改革\n46001\t62195\t好謝謝部長部長我這邊有查到一個資料就在2015年的8月17號那時候蔡英文政府當時在準備要競選這個總統的時候他有到高雄來去拜會就是來跟陳菊那時候你是當時是要參選立法委員\n63296\t79108\t當時蔡英文政府她就有推她有一個五大改革其中一個就是啟動這個國會改革那我這邊唸一段給你聽齁那當時蔡英文政府她講了一段關於國會改革的內容是說民進黨不會因為有機會執政就排斥國會的制衡\n80068\t106522\t國會對行政部門的監督力量一定要專業而有力而專業而讓行政立法的民主制衡關係能相輔相成國會應該是總統的禁止在野黨也不應該看成執政黨的敵人那還有特別要講未來如果當時的蔡英文參選人擔任總統絕不害怕國會監督因為他不會是一個獨行獨斷的總統也不會是一個拒絕民意的總統更不會是一個維護一黨之勢的總統\n108283\t109244\t行政院昨天晚上\n126778\t153175\t就發布了在臉書上發布說他對國會改革的部分他說要移請他要移請這個立法院來復議以及他尊重民進黨黨團的三讀通過的這個後他要要求他也尊重這個民進黨黨團要釋憲那我這邊是覺得非常的遺憾這個行政院感覺起來好像已經事有準備了就要對國會改革來提出這個意見\n154136\t169373\t那這邊我也是針對這個行政院的內容仔細的去研讀他對國情報告國會改革無法裡面的國情報告藐視國會人事同意權以及調查權都有意見其中唯一一個他沒有提出意見就是聽證權的部分那相信\n170074\t191178\t可能現在在聽政權的部分他們現在是比較有一致的貢獻所以這邊也希望部長在未來禮拜四的院會的時候可以幫這個不管是在野黨或當時的蔡英文前總統一起來發聲記得說當時民進黨是支持國會改革的而且還有一段論述那當時我相信您在現場所以希望這個部長可以來幫忙來協助\n195279\t220185\t那第二個我要帶部長來回答的部分就是說在這個國會改革的時候我相信在院外聚集了非常多的這個年輕人那他們稱我這次的行動叫做親鳥行動那這個行動中我相信民眾去大型的集會場所都是正常的讓我們予以尊重那可是在現場的時候我是請這個警政署長可以一起來幫忙一下\n220845\t233777\t在現場的時候民進黨的政治會執行長王毅川先生說他可以針對民進黨已經透過手機的這個電信信令的服務來去對這個民眾的資訊來去做一些確認\n237560\t251436\t那我想要問就是民眾必須免於恐懼到底民眾參加大型聚會的時候有什麼樣的資訊會對一些廠商或對一些特定團體或是一般民眾都可以查詢到的嗎\n252937\t272547\t報告委員我們警察在執行群眾活動的時候絕對不會用手機去做定位群眾的這些相關的問題絕對沒有那請問他當時說他可以去針對手機的這個性命服務去查年齡層跟群眾組成的分析這個我就不清楚那警察的這個部分在處理群眾我們\n274107\t295322\t我要跟署長報告說他甚至能夠來分析出來說這些的群眾跟當時小草一月多民眾黨在選舉的時候的小草的民眾的人是不同的那我請教一下我們絕對不會去做這種那我請教一下署長跟部長\n295942\t324075\t到底什麼樣的單位或什麼樣的人有辦法去取得這樣的細部的資料我相信這是全民要去了解的比如我今天去參加一個大型的活動結果我的姓名也被知道了我的這個年紀也被知道了我的這個人數人數知道是還可以可是他會擔心說我有沒有參加過小草活動的這些資訊為什麼會被透露出來到底誰有能力去把這些資訊給找出來\n326677\t352879\t這個我不清楚,我們絕對不會去用手機去做那我請教一下那什麼單位可以去取得這樣的資料?部長知道嗎?因為的確他在新聞頂上解說他說我相信不要不需要我原因重現啦就是說他說這個他說原來這些人跟原來的小草沒有去比對過他跟原來這些517在民進黨樓下那些草草去跟他比起來也不同人啊\n355142\t369127\t報告張委員我們在處理這個群眾活動的時候呢我們都是注重這個警政如何維持現場的次序至於說有沒有後續後端有人處理這些所謂的電訊資料取得他們這些我們真的是不清楚\n369907\t374093\t王先生講的是事實,所以我是不是可以拜託行政部門的時候,針對民眾未來去參加大型活動,他的資訊是不是有外洩,他跟一些民間團體\n385310\t403753\t在聯絡的時候是不是有取得一些機密的資料他才可以這樣子來去做一些分析那我相信憑證單位這邊是不是要針對這些的內容來去做一個查核我覺得這樣子才可以讓民眾未來去參加一些大型活動的時候可以免於恐懼不然我什麼時候去參加活動的時候\n404594\t429650\t但我相信這個網路上還在說就好像在老大哥在監視你一樣人民沒有隱私權我認為這樣是非常不正確的一個行為好不好拜託部長這邊還有署長這邊要讓人民免於恐懼那今天部長這邊好像沒辦法回應我任何的問題所以我相信說現在資訊非常的發達人民的個資不應該被外露所以這拜託部長不能就跟我默默無言以對\n430811\t450604\t那接下來我相信今天大家都非常注意的就是這個新竹消防員的事情那我相信很多有關於這個警消的權益的問題我們都非常的重視那這邊我是不是可以拜託就我本身的了解我們這個在警消人員的時候我擔心的一個點就是說我們的預算原額的部分能不能去做增加\n451584\t475550\t顧名思義就是說假設今天這個警消的人員預算原額假設要200個人是應聘的人到底是多少比如說應聘是190個人那在遇到這些可能當時很多的這些警消人員可能因為個人因素家庭因素健康因素而離職的可能到最後只有180個人所以顧名思義很多我們警政單位現在第一線的服務人員人數是缺乏的\n476030\t477952\t是不是請部長回答一下?\n501690\t526021\t謝謝張委員對於警消的這個協助跟幫忙我們會跟地方政府共同來討論這個部分但是重要的是預算原額是有的怎麼樣補足像剛剛我們有提到消防員呢他們要有禁用的這個資格的話要經過考試院的這個考試那上次考試院的考試呢錄取率非常的低那現在怎麼樣把錄取率提高因為我們是合格的消防員才可以上這個消防的人員的這個補足\n530664\t544378\t新竹事件發生後,我們有顯現出這樣的弱點,這個弱點我們也跟考試院已經做比較好的協調,在下一次有關於消防員的考試的時候,盡量以提高錄取率的方式來補足緣而不足的地方。\n544918\t573582\t對,所以部長這邊我拜託主席再一下下所以這邊拜託部長所以我這邊這是強烈的要求就是說部長跟兩位署長這邊一定要提供本席就是過去以來可能這三年你們的這個預算員額跟實際應聘的員額跟實際應聘員額過了一年兩年了以後是不是整體消防員警察人數有下降所以我這邊還是要提出我如果預算員額增加其實它就是有個備用人力訓練人力的一個單位它是可以補足說如果其中\n574182\t585517\t有部分的這個單位是人數不足的時候他可以補充過去我覺得這才可以部分的去改善所有我們警消人員他在執行上的危險所以還有沒有什麼要補充的嗎\n587478\t614158\t現在有沒有這樣的情形我想這個原額這個部分呢也是配合地方縣市政府的預算來做一個衡量整體的一個考量那我們會再做這個通盤的這個檢討好是不是有沒有時間大概多久可以把這個書面報告給本席書面報告那是不是過去三年了大概一個月可以嗎好可以可以好謝謝署長謝謝謝謝部長\n616145\t616548\t好謝謝張智倫委員\n","txt":"主席 各位委員 各位官員 大家早安 大家好 有請部長有請部長 謝謝\n張委員你好部長好恭喜你擔任我們新任的這個內政部長那期待未來這個朝野和諧那你可以我們一起努力來為我們國人一起來打拼那首先跟這個部長報告在昨天這個我們院會有通過了國會改革的無法經過了四次院會大家都非常辛苦那這邊要想要先跟部長請教你支持國會改革嗎我支持在合憲範圍下的國會改革\n好謝謝部長部長我這邊有查到一個資料就在2015年的8月17號那時候蔡英文政府當時在準備要競選這個總統的時候他有到高雄來去拜會就是來跟陳菊那時候你是當時是要參選立法委員\n當時蔡英文政府她就有推她有一個五大改革其中一個就是啟動這個國會改革那我這邊唸一段給你聽齁那當時蔡英文政府她講了一段關於國會改革的內容是說民進黨不會因為有機會執政就排斥國會的制衡\n國會對行政部門的監督力量一定要專業而有力而專業而讓行政立法的民主制衡關係能相輔相成國會應該是總統的禁止在野黨也不應該看成執政黨的敵人那還有特別要講未來如果當時的蔡英文參選人擔任總統絕不害怕國會監督因為他不會是一個獨行獨斷的總統也不會是一個拒絕民意的總統更不會是一個維護一黨之勢的總統\n行政院昨天晚上\n就發布了在臉書上發布說他對國會改革的部分他說要移請他要移請這個立法院來復議以及他尊重民進黨黨團的三讀通過的這個後他要要求他也尊重這個民進黨黨團要釋憲那我這邊是覺得非常的遺憾這個行政院感覺起來好像已經事有準備了就要對國會改革來提出這個意見\n那這邊我也是針對這個行政院的內容仔細的去研讀他對國情報告國會改革無法裡面的國情報告藐視國會人事同意權以及調查權都有意見其中唯一一個他沒有提出意見就是聽證權的部分那相信\n可能現在在聽政權的部分他們現在是比較有一致的貢獻所以這邊也希望部長在未來禮拜四的院會的時候可以幫這個不管是在野黨或當時的蔡英文前總統一起來發聲記得說當時民進黨是支持國會改革的而且還有一段論述那當時我相信您在現場所以希望這個部長可以來幫忙來協助\n那第二個我要帶部長來回答的部分就是說在這個國會改革的時候我相信在院外聚集了非常多的這個年輕人那他們稱我這次的行動叫做親鳥行動那這個行動中我相信民眾去大型的集會場所都是正常的讓我們予以尊重那可是在現場的時候我是請這個警政署長可以一起來幫忙一下\n在現場的時候民進黨的政治會執行長王毅川先生說他可以針對民進黨已經透過手機的這個電信信令的服務來去對這個民眾的資訊來去做一些確認\n那我想要問就是民眾必須免於恐懼到底民眾參加大型聚會的時候有什麼樣的資訊會對一些廠商或對一些特定團體或是一般民眾都可以查詢到的嗎\n報告委員我們警察在執行群眾活動的時候絕對不會用手機去做定位群眾的這些相關的問題絕對沒有那請問他當時說他可以去針對手機的這個性命服務去查年齡層跟群眾組成的分析這個我就不清楚那警察的這個部分在處理群眾我們\n我要跟署長報告說他甚至能夠來分析出來說這些的群眾跟當時小草一月多民眾黨在選舉的時候的小草的民眾的人是不同的那我請教一下我們絕對不會去做這種那我請教一下署長跟部長\n到底什麼樣的單位或什麼樣的人有辦法去取得這樣的細部的資料我相信這是全民要去了解的比如我今天去參加一個大型的活動結果我的姓名也被知道了我的這個年紀也被知道了我的這個人數人數知道是還可以可是他會擔心說我有沒有參加過小草活動的這些資訊為什麼會被透露出來到底誰有能力去把這些資訊給找出來\n這個我不清楚,我們絕對不會去用手機去做那我請教一下那什麼單位可以去取得這樣的資料?部長知道嗎?因為的確他在新聞頂上解說他說我相信不要不需要我原因重現啦就是說他說這個他說原來這些人跟原來的小草沒有去比對過他跟原來這些517在民進黨樓下那些草草去跟他比起來也不同人啊\n報告張委員我們在處理這個群眾活動的時候呢我們都是注重這個警政如何維持現場的次序至於說有沒有後續後端有人處理這些所謂的電訊資料取得他們這些我們真的是不清楚\n王先生講的是事實,所以我是不是可以拜託行政部門的時候,針對民眾未來去參加大型活動,他的資訊是不是有外洩,他跟一些民間團體\n在聯絡的時候是不是有取得一些機密的資料他才可以這樣子來去做一些分析那我相信憑證單位這邊是不是要針對這些的內容來去做一個查核我覺得這樣子才可以讓民眾未來去參加一些大型活動的時候可以免於恐懼不然我什麼時候去參加活動的時候\n但我相信這個網路上還在說就好像在老大哥在監視你一樣人民沒有隱私權我認為這樣是非常不正確的一個行為好不好拜託部長這邊還有署長這邊要讓人民免於恐懼那今天部長這邊好像沒辦法回應我任何的問題所以我相信說現在資訊非常的發達人民的個資不應該被外露所以這拜託部長不能就跟我默默無言以對\n那接下來我相信今天大家都非常注意的就是這個新竹消防員的事情那我相信很多有關於這個警消的權益的問題我們都非常的重視那這邊我是不是可以拜託就我本身的了解我們這個在警消人員的時候我擔心的一個點就是說我們的預算原額的部分能不能去做增加\n顧名思義就是說假設今天這個警消的人員預算原額假設要200個人是應聘的人到底是多少比如說應聘是190個人那在遇到這些可能當時很多的這些警消人員可能因為個人因素家庭因素健康因素而離職的可能到最後只有180個人所以顧名思義很多我們警政單位現在第一線的服務人員人數是缺乏的\n是不是請部長回答一下?\n謝謝張委員對於警消的這個協助跟幫忙我們會跟地方政府共同來討論這個部分但是重要的是預算原額是有的怎麼樣補足像剛剛我們有提到消防員呢他們要有禁用的這個資格的話要經過考試院的這個考試那上次考試院的考試呢錄取率非常的低那現在怎麼樣把錄取率提高因為我們是合格的消防員才可以上這個消防的人員的這個補足\n新竹事件發生後,我們有顯現出這樣的弱點,這個弱點我們也跟考試院已經做比較好的協調,在下一次有關於消防員的考試的時候,盡量以提高錄取率的方式來補足緣而不足的地方。\n對,所以部長這邊我拜託主席再一下下所以這邊拜託部長所以我這邊這是強烈的要求就是說部長跟兩位署長這邊一定要提供本席就是過去以來可能這三年你們的這個預算員額跟實際應聘的員額跟實際應聘員額過了一年兩年了以後是不是整體消防員警察人數有下降所以我這邊還是要提出我如果預算員額增加其實它就是有個備用人力訓練人力的一個單位它是可以補足說如果其中\n有部分的這個單位是人數不足的時候他可以補充過去我覺得這才可以部分的去改善所有我們警消人員他在執行上的危險所以還有沒有什麼要補充的嗎\n現在有沒有這樣的情形我想這個原額這個部分呢也是配合地方縣市政府的預算來做一個衡量整體的一個考量那我們會再做這個通盤的這個檢討好是不是有沒有時間大概多久可以把這個書面報告給本席書面報告那是不是過去三年了大概一個月可以嗎好可以可以好謝謝署長謝謝謝謝部長\n好謝謝張智倫委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.463 --> 00:09.889\n主 席 各 位 委 員 各 位 官 員 大 家 早 安 大 家 好 有 請 部 長 有 請 部 長 謝 謝\n\n00:17.160 --> 00:44.261\n張 委 員 你 好 部 長 好 恭 喜 你 擔 任 我 們 新 任 的 這 個 內 政 部 長 那 期 待 未 來 這 個 朝 野 和 諧 那 你 可 以 我 們 一 起 努 力 來 為 我 們 國 人 一 起 來 打 拼 那 首 先 跟 這 個 部 長 報 告 在 昨 天 這 個 我 們 院 會 有 通 過 了 國 會 改 革 的 無 法 經 過 了 四 次 院 會 大 家 都 非 常 辛 苦 那 這 邊 要 想 要 先 跟 部 長 請 教 你 支 持 國 會 改 革 嗎 我 支 持 在 合 憲 範 圍 下 的 國 會 改 革\n\n00:46.001 --> 01:02.195\n好 謝 謝 部 長 部 長 我 這 邊 有 查 到 一 個 資 料 就 在 2 0 1 5 年 的 8 月 1 7 號 那 時 候 蔡 英 文 政 府 當 時 在 準 備 要 競 選 這 個 總 統 的 時 候 他 有 到 高 雄 來 去 拜 會 就 是 來 跟 陳 菊 那 時 候 你 是 當 時 是 要 參 選 立 法 委 員\n\n01:03.296 --> 01:19.108\n當 時 蔡 英 文 政 府 她 就 有 推 她 有 一 個 五 大 改 革 其 中 一 個 就 是 啟 動 這 個 國 會 改 革 那 我 這 邊 唸 一 段 給 你 聽 齁 那 當 時 蔡 英 文 政 府 她 講 了 一 段 關 於 國 會 改 革 的 內 容 是 說 民 進 黨 不 會 因 為 有 機 會 執 政 就 排 斥 國 會 的 制 衡\n\n01:20.068 --> 01:46.522\n國 會 對 行 政 部 門 的 監 督 力 量 一 定 要 專 業 而 有 力 而 專 業 而 讓 行 政 立 法 的 民 主 制 衡 關 係 能 相 輔 相 成 國 會 應 該 是 總 統 的 禁 止 在 野 黨 也 不 應 該 看 成 執 政 黨 的 敵 人 那 還 有 特 別 要 講 未 來 如 果 當 時 的 蔡 英 文 參 選 人 擔 任 總 統 絕 不 害 怕 國 會 監 督 因 為 他 不 會 是 一 個 獨 行 獨 斷 的 總 統 也 不 會 是 一 個 拒 絕 民 意 的 總 統 更 不 會 是 一 個 維 護 一 黨 之 勢 的 總 統\n\n01:48.283 --> 01:49.244\n行 政 院 昨 天 晚 上\n\n02:06.778 --> 02:33.175\n就 發 布 了 在 臉 書 上 發 布 說 他 對 國 會 改 革 的 部 分 他 說 要 移 請 他 要 移 請 這 個 立 法 院 來 復 議 以 及 他 尊 重 民 進 黨 黨 團 的 三 讀 通 過 的 這 個 後 他 要 要 求 他 也 尊 重 這 個 民 進 黨 黨 團 要 釋 憲 那 我 這 邊 是 覺 得 非 常 的 遺 憾 這 個 行 政 院 感 覺 起 來 好 像 已 經 事 有 準 備 了 就 要 對 國 會 改 革 來 提 出 這 個 意 見\n\n02:34.136 --> 02:49.373\n那 這 邊 我 也 是 針 對 這 個 行 政 院 的 內 容 仔 細 的 去 研 讀 他 對 國 情 報 告 國 會 改 革 無 法 裡 面 的 國 情 報 告 藐 視 國 會 人 事 同 意 權 以 及 調 查 權 都 有 意 見 其 中 唯 一 一 個 他 沒 有 提 出 意 見 就 是 聽 證 權 的 部 分 那 相 信\n\n02:50.074 --> 03:11.178\n可 能 現 在 在 聽 政 權 的 部 分 他 們 現 在 是 比 較 有 一 致 的 貢 獻 所 以 這 邊 也 希 望 部 長 在 未 來 禮 拜 四 的 院 會 的 時 候 可 以 幫 這 個 不 管 是 在 野 黨 或 當 時 的 蔡 英 文 前 總 統 一 起 來 發 聲 記 得 說 當 時 民 進 黨 是 支 持 國 會 改 革 的 而 且 還 有 一 段 論 述 那 當 時 我 相 信 您 在 現 場 所 以 希 望 這 個 部 長 可 以 來 幫 忙 來 協 助\n\n03:15.279 --> 03:40.185\n那 第 二 個 我 要 帶 部 長 來 回 答 的 部 分 就 是 說 在 這 個 國 會 改 革 的 時 候 我 相 信 在 院 外 聚 集 了 非 常 多 的 這 個 年 輕 人 那 他 們 稱 我 這 次 的 行 動 叫 做 親 鳥 行 動 那 這 個 行 動 中 我 相 信 民 眾 去 大 型 的 集 會 場 所 都 是 正 常 的 讓 我 們 予 以 尊 重 那 可 是 在 現 場 的 時 候 我 是 請 這 個 警 政 署 長 可 以 一 起 來 幫 忙 一 下\n\n03:40.845 --> 03:53.777\n在 現 場 的 時 候 民 進 黨 的 政 治 會 執 行 長 王 毅 川 先 生 說 他 可 以 針 對 民 進 黨 已 經 透 過 手 機 的 這 個 電 信 信 令 的 服 務 來 去 對 這 個 民 眾 的 資 訊 來 去 做 一 些 確 認\n\n03:57.560 --> 04:11.436\n那 我 想 要 問 就 是 民 眾 必 須 免 於 恐 懼 到 底 民 眾 參 加 大 型 聚 會 的 時 候 有 什 麼 樣 的 資 訊 會 對 一 些 廠 商 或 對 一 些 特 定 團 體 或 是 一 般 民 眾 都 可 以 查 詢 到 的 嗎\n\n04:12.937 --> 04:32.547\n報 告 委 員 我 們 警 察 在 執 行 群 眾 活 動 的 時 候 絕 對 不 會 用 手 機 去 做 定 位 群 眾 的 這 些 相 關 的 問 題 絕 對 沒 有 那 請 問 他 當 時 說 他 可 以 去 針 對 手 機 的 這 個 性 命 服 務 去 查 年 齡 層 跟 群 眾 組 成 的 分 析 這 個 我 就 不 清 楚 那 警 察 的 這 個 部 分 在 處 理 群 眾 我 們\n\n04:34.107 --> 04:55.322\n我 要 跟 署 長 報 告 說 他 甚 至 能 夠 來 分 析 出 來 說 這 些 的 群 眾 跟 當 時 小 草 一 月 多 民 眾 黨 在 選 舉 的 時 候 的 小 草 的 民 眾 的 人 是 不 同 的 那 我 請 教 一 下 我 們 絕 對 不 會 去 做 這 種 那 我 請 教 一 下 署 長 跟 部 長\n\n04:55.942 --> 05:24.075\n到 底 什 麼 樣 的 單 位 或 什 麼 樣 的 人 有 辦 法 去 取 得 這 樣 的 細 部 的 資 料 我 相 信 這 是 全 民 要 去 了 解 的 比 如 我 今 天 去 參 加 一 個 大 型 的 活 動 結 果 我 的 姓 名 也 被 知 道 了 我 的 這 個 年 紀 也 被 知 道 了 我 的 這 個 人 數 人 數 知 道 是 還 可 以 可 是 他 會 擔 心 說 我 有 沒 有 參 加 過 小 草 活 動 的 這 些 資 訊 為 什 麼 會 被 透 露 出 來 到 底 誰 有 能 力 去 把 這 些 資 訊 給 找 出 來\n\n05:26.677 --> 05:52.879\n這 個 我 不 清 楚 , 我 們 絕 對 不 會 去 用 手 機 去 做 那 我 請 教 一 下 那 什 麼 單 位 可 以 去 取 得 這 樣 的 資 料 ? 部 長 知 道 嗎 ? 因 為 的 確 他 在 新 聞 頂 上 解 說 他 說 我 相 信 不 要 不 需 要 我 原 因 重 現 啦 就 是 說 他 說 這 個 他 說 原 來 這 些 人 跟 原 來 的 小 草 沒 有 去 比 對 過 他 跟 原 來 這 些 5 1 7 在 民 進 黨 樓 下 那 些 草 草 去 跟 他 比 起 來 也 不 同 人 啊\n\n05:55.142 --> 06:09.127\n報 告 張 委 員 我 們 在 處 理 這 個 群 眾 活 動 的 時 候 呢 我 們 都 是 注 重 這 個 警 政 如 何 維 持 現 場 的 次 序 至 於 說 有 沒 有 後 續 後 端 有 人 處 理 這 些 所 謂 的 電 訊 資 料 取 得 他 們 這 些 我 們 真 的 是 不 清 楚\n\n06:09.907 --> 06:14.093\n王 先 生 講 的 是 事 實 , 所 以 我 是 不 是 可 以 拜 託 行 政 部 門 的 時 候 , 針 對 民 眾 未 來 去 參 加 大 型 活 動 , 他 的 資 訊 是 不 是 有 外 洩 , 他 跟 一 些 民 間 團 體\n\n06:25.310 --> 06:43.753\n在 聯 絡 的 時 候 是 不 是 有 取 得 一 些 機 密 的 資 料 他 才 可 以 這 樣 子 來 去 做 一 些 分 析 那 我 相 信 憑 證 單 位 這 邊 是 不 是 要 針 對 這 些 的 內 容 來 去 做 一 個 查 核 我 覺 得 這 樣 子 才 可 以 讓 民 眾 未 來 去 參 加 一 些 大 型 活 動 的 時 候 可 以 免 於 恐 懼 不 然 我 什 麼 時 候 去 參 加 活 動 的 時 候\n\n06:44.594 --> 07:09.650\n但 我 相 信 這 個 網 路 上 還 在 說 就 好 像 在 老 大 哥 在 監 視 你 一 樣 人 民 沒 有 隱 私 權 我 認 為 這 樣 是 非 常 不 正 確 的 一 個 行 為 好 不 好 拜 託 部 長 這 邊 還 有 署 長 這 邊 要 讓 人 民 免 於 恐 懼 那 今 天 部 長 這 邊 好 像 沒 辦 法 回 應 我 任 何 的 問 題 所 以 我 相 信 說 現 在 資 訊 非 常 的 發 達 人 民 的 個 資 不 應 該 被 外 露 所 以 這 拜 託 部 長 不 能 就 跟 我 默 默 無 言 以 對\n\n07:10.811 --> 07:30.604\n那 接 下 來 我 相 信 今 天 大 家 都 非 常 注 意 的 就 是 這 個 新 竹 消 防 員 的 事 情 那 我 相 信 很 多 有 關 於 這 個 警 消 的 權 益 的 問 題 我 們 都 非 常 的 重 視 那 這 邊 我 是 不 是 可 以 拜 託 就 我 本 身 的 了 解 我 們 這 個 在 警 消 人 員 的 時 候 我 擔 心 的 一 個 點 就 是 說 我 們 的 預 算 原 額 的 部 分 能 不 能 去 做 增 加\n\n07:31.584 --> 07:55.550\n顧 名 思 義 就 是 說 假 設 今 天 這 個 警 消 的 人 員 預 算 原 額 假 設 要 2 0 0 個 人 是 應 聘 的 人 到 底 是 多 少 比 如 說 應 聘 是 1 9 0 個 人 那 在 遇 到 這 些 可 能 當 時 很 多 的 這 些 警 消 人 員 可 能 因 為 個 人 因 素 家 庭 因 素 健 康 因 素 而 離 職 的 可 能 到 最 後 只 有 1 8 0 個 人 所 以 顧 名 思 義 很 多 我 們 警 政 單 位 現 在 第 一 線 的 服 務 人 員 人 數 是 缺 乏 的\n\n07:56.030 --> 07:57.952\n是 不 是 請 部 長 回 答 一 下 ?\n\n08:21.690 --> 08:46.021\n謝 謝 張 委 員 對 於 警 消 的 這 個 協 助 跟 幫 忙 我 們 會 跟 地 方 政 府 共 同 來 討 論 這 個 部 分 但 是 重 要 的 是 預 算 原 額 是 有 的 怎 麼 樣 補 足 像 剛 剛 我 們 有 提 到 消 防 員 呢 他 們 要 有 禁 用 的 這 個 資 格 的 話 要 經 過 考 試 院 的 這 個 考 試 那 上 次 考 試 院 的 考 試 呢 錄 取 率 非 常 的 低 那 現 在 怎 麼 樣 把 錄 取 率 提 高 因 為 我 們 是 合 格 的 消 防 員 才 可 以 上 這 個 消 防 的 人 員 的 這 個 補 足\n\n08:50.664 --> 09:04.378\n新 竹 事 件 發 生 後 , 我 們 有 顯 現 出 這 樣 的 弱 點 , 這 個 弱 點 我 們 也 跟 考 試 院 已 經 做 比 較 好 的 協 調 , 在 下 一 次 有 關 於 消 防 員 的 考 試 的 時 候 , 盡 量 以 提 高 錄 取 率 的 方 式 來 補 足 緣 而 不 足 的 地 方 。\n\n09:04.918 --> 09:33.582\n對 , 所 以 部 長 這 邊 我 拜 託 主 席 再 一 下 下 所 以 這 邊 拜 託 部 長 所 以 我 這 邊 這 是 強 烈 的 要 求 就 是 說 部 長 跟 兩 位 署 長 這 邊 一 定 要 提 供 本 席 就 是 過 去 以 來 可 能 這 三 年 你 們 的 這 個 預 算 員 額 跟 實 際 應 聘 的 員 額 跟 實 際 應 聘 員 額 過 了 一 年 兩 年 了 以 後 是 不 是 整 體 消 防 員 警 察 人 數 有 下 降 所 以 我 這 邊 還 是 要 提 出 我 如 果 預 算 員 額 增 加 其 實 它 就 是 有 個 備 用 人 力 訓 練 人 力 的 一 個 單 位 它 是 可 以 補 足 說 如 果 其 中\n\n09:34.182 --> 09:45.517\n有 部 分 的 這 個 單 位 是 人 數 不 足 的 時 候 他 可 以 補 充 過 去 我 覺 得 這 才 可 以 部 分 的 去 改 善 所 有 我 們 警 消 人 員 他 在 執 行 上 的 危 險 所 以 還 有 沒 有 什 麼 要 補 充 的 嗎\n\n09:47.478 --> 10:14.158\n現 在 有 沒 有 這 樣 的 情 形 我 想 這 個 原 額 這 個 部 分 呢 也 是 配 合 地 方 縣 市 政 府 的 預 算 來 做 一 個 衡 量 整 體 的 一 個 考 量 那 我 們 會 再 做 這 個 通 盤 的 這 個 檢 討 好 是 不 是 有 沒 有 時 間 大 概 多 久 可 以 把 這 個 書 面 報 告 給 本 席 書 面 報 告 那 是 不 是 過 去 三 年 了 大 概 一 個 月 可 以 嗎 好 可 以 可 以 好 謝 謝 署 長 謝 謝 謝 謝 部 長\n\n10:16.145 --> 10:16.548\n好 謝 謝 張 智 倫 委 員\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.463,"end":9.889,"text":"主席 各位委員 各位官員 大家早安 大家好 有請部長有請部長 謝謝"},{"start":17.16,"end":44.261,"text":"張委員你好部長好恭喜你擔任我們新任的這個內政部長那期待未來這個朝野和諧那你可以我們一起努力來為我們國人一起來打拼那首先跟這個部長報告在昨天這個我們院會有通過了國會改革的無法經過了四次院會大家都非常辛苦那這邊要想要先跟部長請教你支持國會改革嗎我支持在合憲範圍下的國會改革"},{"start":46.001,"end":62.195,"text":"好謝謝部長部長我這邊有查到一個資料就在2015年的8月17號那時候蔡英文政府當時在準備要競選這個總統的時候他有到高雄來去拜會就是來跟陳菊那時候你是當時是要參選立法委員"},{"start":63.296,"end":79.108,"text":"當時蔡英文政府她就有推她有一個五大改革其中一個就是啟動這個國會改革那我這邊唸一段給你聽齁那當時蔡英文政府她講了一段關於國會改革的內容是說民進黨不會因為有機會執政就排斥國會的制衡"},{"start":80.068,"end":106.522,"text":"國會對行政部門的監督力量一定要專業而有力而專業而讓行政立法的民主制衡關係能相輔相成國會應該是總統的禁止在野黨也不應該看成執政黨的敵人那還有特別要講未來如果當時的蔡英文參選人擔任總統絕不害怕國會監督因為他不會是一個獨行獨斷的總統也不會是一個拒絕民意的總統更不會是一個維護一黨之勢的總統"},{"start":108.283,"end":109.244,"text":"行政院昨天晚上"},{"start":126.778,"end":153.175,"text":"就發布了在臉書上發布說他對國會改革的部分他說要移請他要移請這個立法院來復議以及他尊重民進黨黨團的三讀通過的這個後他要要求他也尊重這個民進黨黨團要釋憲那我這邊是覺得非常的遺憾這個行政院感覺起來好像已經事有準備了就要對國會改革來提出這個意見"},{"start":154.136,"end":169.373,"text":"那這邊我也是針對這個行政院的內容仔細的去研讀他對國情報告國會改革無法裡面的國情報告藐視國會人事同意權以及調查權都有意見其中唯一一個他沒有提出意見就是聽證權的部分那相信"},{"start":170.074,"end":191.178,"text":"可能現在在聽政權的部分他們現在是比較有一致的貢獻所以這邊也希望部長在未來禮拜四的院會的時候可以幫這個不管是在野黨或當時的蔡英文前總統一起來發聲記得說當時民進黨是支持國會改革的而且還有一段論述那當時我相信您在現場所以希望這個部長可以來幫忙來協助"},{"start":195.279,"end":220.185,"text":"那第二個我要帶部長來回答的部分就是說在這個國會改革的時候我相信在院外聚集了非常多的這個年輕人那他們稱我這次的行動叫做親鳥行動那這個行動中我相信民眾去大型的集會場所都是正常的讓我們予以尊重那可是在現場的時候我是請這個警政署長可以一起來幫忙一下"},{"start":220.845,"end":233.777,"text":"在現場的時候民進黨的政治會執行長王毅川先生說他可以針對民進黨已經透過手機的這個電信信令的服務來去對這個民眾的資訊來去做一些確認"},{"start":237.56,"end":251.436,"text":"那我想要問就是民眾必須免於恐懼到底民眾參加大型聚會的時候有什麼樣的資訊會對一些廠商或對一些特定團體或是一般民眾都可以查詢到的嗎"},{"start":252.937,"end":272.547,"text":"報告委員我們警察在執行群眾活動的時候絕對不會用手機去做定位群眾的這些相關的問題絕對沒有那請問他當時說他可以去針對手機的這個性命服務去查年齡層跟群眾組成的分析這個我就不清楚那警察的這個部分在處理群眾我們"},{"start":274.107,"end":295.322,"text":"我要跟署長報告說他甚至能夠來分析出來說這些的群眾跟當時小草一月多民眾黨在選舉的時候的小草的民眾的人是不同的那我請教一下我們絕對不會去做這種那我請教一下署長跟部長"},{"start":295.942,"end":324.075,"text":"到底什麼樣的單位或什麼樣的人有辦法去取得這樣的細部的資料我相信這是全民要去了解的比如我今天去參加一個大型的活動結果我的姓名也被知道了我的這個年紀也被知道了我的這個人數人數知道是還可以可是他會擔心說我有沒有參加過小草活動的這些資訊為什麼會被透露出來到底誰有能力去把這些資訊給找出來"},{"start":326.677,"end":352.879,"text":"這個我不清楚,我們絕對不會去用手機去做那我請教一下那什麼單位可以去取得這樣的資料?部長知道嗎?因為的確他在新聞頂上解說他說我相信不要不需要我原因重現啦就是說他說這個他說原來這些人跟原來的小草沒有去比對過他跟原來這些517在民進黨樓下那些草草去跟他比起來也不同人啊"},{"start":355.142,"end":369.127,"text":"報告張委員我們在處理這個群眾活動的時候呢我們都是注重這個警政如何維持現場的次序至於說有沒有後續後端有人處理這些所謂的電訊資料取得他們這些我們真的是不清楚"},{"start":369.907,"end":374.093,"text":"王先生講的是事實,所以我是不是可以拜託行政部門的時候,針對民眾未來去參加大型活動,他的資訊是不是有外洩,他跟一些民間團體"},{"start":385.31,"end":403.753,"text":"在聯絡的時候是不是有取得一些機密的資料他才可以這樣子來去做一些分析那我相信憑證單位這邊是不是要針對這些的內容來去做一個查核我覺得這樣子才可以讓民眾未來去參加一些大型活動的時候可以免於恐懼不然我什麼時候去參加活動的時候"},{"start":404.594,"end":429.65,"text":"但我相信這個網路上還在說就好像在老大哥在監視你一樣人民沒有隱私權我認為這樣是非常不正確的一個行為好不好拜託部長這邊還有署長這邊要讓人民免於恐懼那今天部長這邊好像沒辦法回應我任何的問題所以我相信說現在資訊非常的發達人民的個資不應該被外露所以這拜託部長不能就跟我默默無言以對"},{"start":430.811,"end":450.604,"text":"那接下來我相信今天大家都非常注意的就是這個新竹消防員的事情那我相信很多有關於這個警消的權益的問題我們都非常的重視那這邊我是不是可以拜託就我本身的了解我們這個在警消人員的時候我擔心的一個點就是說我們的預算原額的部分能不能去做增加"},{"start":451.584,"end":475.55,"text":"顧名思義就是說假設今天這個警消的人員預算原額假設要200個人是應聘的人到底是多少比如說應聘是190個人那在遇到這些可能當時很多的這些警消人員可能因為個人因素家庭因素健康因素而離職的可能到最後只有180個人所以顧名思義很多我們警政單位現在第一線的服務人員人數是缺乏的"},{"start":476.03,"end":477.952,"text":"是不是請部長回答一下?"},{"start":501.69,"end":526.021,"text":"謝謝張委員對於警消的這個協助跟幫忙我們會跟地方政府共同來討論這個部分但是重要的是預算原額是有的怎麼樣補足像剛剛我們有提到消防員呢他們要有禁用的這個資格的話要經過考試院的這個考試那上次考試院的考試呢錄取率非常的低那現在怎麼樣把錄取率提高因為我們是合格的消防員才可以上這個消防的人員的這個補足"},{"start":530.664,"end":544.378,"text":"新竹事件發生後,我們有顯現出這樣的弱點,這個弱點我們也跟考試院已經做比較好的協調,在下一次有關於消防員的考試的時候,盡量以提高錄取率的方式來補足緣而不足的地方。"},{"start":544.918,"end":573.582,"text":"對,所以部長這邊我拜託主席再一下下所以這邊拜託部長所以我這邊這是強烈的要求就是說部長跟兩位署長這邊一定要提供本席就是過去以來可能這三年你們的這個預算員額跟實際應聘的員額跟實際應聘員額過了一年兩年了以後是不是整體消防員警察人數有下降所以我這邊還是要提出我如果預算員額增加其實它就是有個備用人力訓練人力的一個單位它是可以補足說如果其中"},{"start":574.182,"end":585.517,"text":"有部分的這個單位是人數不足的時候他可以補充過去我覺得這才可以部分的去改善所有我們警消人員他在執行上的危險所以還有沒有什麼要補充的嗎"},{"start":587.478,"end":614.158,"text":"現在有沒有這樣的情形我想這個原額這個部分呢也是配合地方縣市政府的預算來做一個衡量整體的一個考量那我們會再做這個通盤的這個檢討好是不是有沒有時間大概多久可以把這個書面報告給本席書面報告那是不是過去三年了大概一個月可以嗎好可以可以好謝謝署長謝謝謝謝部長"},{"start":616.145,"end":616.548,"text":"好謝謝張智倫委員"}]}}}}