{"id":153274,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153274","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/2c978e04ca5e1331a9f7bf16672018d35c2a8e696f21355cc09f7998a2d5a4c18eab79561b69ec085ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李彥秀","委員發言時間":"11:06:38 - 11:19:06","影片長度":"00:12:28","會議時間":"2024-05-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿率所屬單位主管列席業務報告，並備質詢。）","date":"2024-05-29","duration":748,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-14"},"end_time":"2024-05-29T11:19:06+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-29T11:06:38+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":563,"blocks":[["李委員彥秀：（11時6分）謝謝，我可以請主計長嗎？"],["主席：有請陳主計長。"],["陳主計長淑姿：委員好。"],["李委員彥秀：主計長好。今天是你在立法院的第一天，接受我們的質詢，首先要先恭喜你，但是我想你也非常清楚，過去你都是在臺南市持家，現在則是掌握整個國家，過去的持家，我想你一定非常清楚瞭解地方的感受。過去無論是地方的財源來自促參，包括委外的經營、包括地上權、包括市地重劃，來去處理，想辦法東擠西挪、想辦法去找錢，但是我們都知道巧婦難為無米之炊。所以，過去無論是臺南市長的賴清德、擔任副總統的賴清德、擔任行政院長的賴清德，對於過去長期都用人口做財劃法的劃分，跟給各地方縣市的財源，其實過去賴清德也說對臺南市非常不公平，臺南是文化的首都，單純以人口做為分配的依據，他覺得是有調整的必要。我先就這個問題請教，財劃法已經25年沒有修了，現在很多區域立委、各政黨對於財劃法的處理都有想法，也提案，我先請教主計長，對於財劃法25年沒修，你覺得該不該修？"],["陳主計長淑姿：事實上，財劃法的主導單位是財政部，財劃法為什麼會這麼多年一直沒有修，是因為它修也有它的困難，畢竟各縣市的條件不一樣，財政的負擔和差距也不一樣。所以在財政劃分法的原則下，我們是希望，第一個，各縣市財政能夠自主；第二……"],["李委員彥秀：我今天時間不多，每一個委員也只有8分鐘而已，我只想問你，你在地方待過，現在來到中央，你現在是主計長，對於財劃法的修正，你覺得有沒有必要修正？"],["陳主計長淑姿：如果說我是臺南市政府主計處處長，我會希望修正，因為我希望取得更多的財源，越多越好。"],["李委員彥秀：對嘛！"],["陳主計長淑姿：但是如果站在全國的立場，我希望能夠調劑盈虛，因為每個縣市都不一樣，它的條件都不相同，財政的差距也不相同，所以中央必須要有一個額度給它來做調整的作用。"],["李委員彥秀：所以你到底是支不支持？我聽不懂，你說了半天。"],["陳主計長淑姿：我就說現行的制度是不是有分配公平，因為以現行來講……"],["李委員彥秀：所以才要討論嘛！所以你到底支不支持？哪一個版本我們可以討論，但是你覺得該不該處理？"],["陳主計長淑姿：但是以現狀來講，透過一般縣市的補助，包括計畫型的計畫補助，它都能夠調整各縣市、符合各縣市的需求……"],["李委員彥秀：主計長，你就知道那都要看中央的臉色，有的有、有的沒有，所以我覺得制度化的處理，或我們更明確的討論是有必要性的，所以你剛才在浪費我的時間。我剛剛有提出來，你感受最深，那都要看中央的臉色，這一筆給你，那一筆不給你，每一年的狀況不一樣，對地方財政，每一年你有多少錢可以做多少事情，你不確定性就增加了嘛！這個你比我更清楚，你不要換了一個位置就換了腦袋，我們來看一下過去賴清德怎麼講？你看擔任市長的賴清德，臺南市財政大感吃力，財劃法沒有通過，自有財源比例是非常低的；但是行政院長賴清德講說，財政收支劃分法修正案，行政院一定要正視這個問題，兩次的行政院院長賴清德都支持財劃法要處理。這件事情我要提醒你，不要換了一個位置就換了一個腦袋，我想你來自地方，你更知道地方的痛苦，所以這件事情你應該大力疾呼，你現在擔任國家的大掌櫃──主計長，這件事情要怎麼處理？既然市長賴清德支持、行政院長賴清德支持，你過去在臺南市擔任主計處長的時候也支持，沒有道理你擔任國家大掌櫃，你換了一個屁股換了一個腦袋，我們怎麼對人民交代？至於什麼樣的方向，我覺得大家可以再來討論，不處理是無法交代的，好不好？這個是我第一個問題，我不希望這件事情再一次跳票！","我們也特別講說，過去幾年中央財政都很好，歲計賸餘都很多啊！今年看起來我們的經濟成長率又到6.53%，看起來就不錯啊！你不能說中央吃肉叫地方都吃骨頭，連肉渣都沒有看到，這是我的重點，所以我還是希望主計長這邊要跟卓院長、跟賴總統討論一下，特別是這個議題有沒有討論過？"],["陳主計長淑姿：這個部分我們是還沒有討論過，因為這是財政部主導，我們還是會配合財政部。"],["李委員彥秀：後面也會影響到你，因為你如果分給地方，你這一邊的錢就比較少可以放在身上，所以我才問說你的意願怎麼樣？"],["陳主計長淑姿：對，所以一般性的補助……"],["李委員彥秀：你不要一直推給財政部，這都是連帶的關係，你很清楚嘛！"],["陳主計長淑姿：是、是。"],["李委員彥秀：對不對？所以……"],["陳主計長淑姿：它如果有修正的話，我們這邊也一定要配合做調整。"],["李委員彥秀：所以卓院長的態度怎麼樣？我們好幾個立委都有版本啊！你的態度怎麼樣？"],["陳主計長淑姿：這個部分我們還不……"],["李委員彥秀：你支持，你有沒有跟卓院長討論過這件事情？"],["陳主計長淑姿：還沒有。"],["李委員彥秀：你內部都沒有討論過？"],["陳主計長淑姿：我們再來要做業務報告，可能要針對這個部分也做一些討論。"],["李委員彥秀：好，那麼我期待下一次，我還是會繼續追蹤這個問題。"],["陳主計長淑姿：是、是。"],["李委員彥秀：我來看看過去臺南市的主計處處長、現在國家大掌櫃──中央的主計長，到底有沒有換了一個屁股換了一個腦袋？"],["陳主計長淑姿：是。"],["李委員彥秀：你也要想辦法落實賴總統、賴市長、賴行政院長的政策，到底有沒有做調整？好，我第二個問題就是要請教，現在有關通膨跟經濟成長率的問題，我先請教主計長，我們今年首季的經濟成長率預估達到6.51%？"],["陳主計長淑姿：是。"],["李委員彥秀：明天你們要舉辦國民所得的評審會議？"],["陳主計長淑姿：是。"],["李委員彥秀：最近我看到我們今年第一季的經濟成長率其實是不錯的，我們看看2023年11月的經濟成長率是3.35%，通膨是1.64%；2024年2月經濟成長率3.43%，通膨是1.85%。每3個月做一次，我有看到一個數字，主計長，你們明天要公布的這個數字，經濟成長率是3.57%，通膨是1.9%，是這樣嗎？"],["陳主計長淑姿：這個部分，因為第一季我們的經濟成長率是6.51%啦，所以我們本來是預估……"],["李委員彥秀：3.57%跟1.9%這個數字，這是我在媒體上看到的，數字是這樣嗎？明天你們要開的國民所得評審會議上是這樣嗎？"],["陳主計長淑姿：不是，按照道理，因為我們……"],["李委員彥秀：所以這個數字是報錯了，媒體寫錯了？"],["陳主計長淑姿：不是，我現在要說明一下，就是說按照道理，這數據我們不能外洩，但是你如果說用……"],["李委員彥秀：所以這個數字是錯的？不是這兩個數字？"],["陳主計長淑姿：不是，你如果用其他條件都不變，我用前4個月經濟成長的一個情形再重新去換算，換算出來的結果會得到3.57%這樣子，但是明天開會的結果到底是怎麼樣，這個必須看明天開會的結果，然後整個開會的結果我們也會對外……"],["李委員彥秀：你剛剛講說是其他數字換算，加了其他的因素算出來還是3.57？"],["陳主計長淑姿：就是以1到4月實際發生狀況去推算的結果，其他條件後面就是原預估的不變，這樣的話……"],["李委員彥秀：才有3.57？"],["陳主計長淑姿：原來是3.43會調整到3.57。"],["李委員彥秀：明天這個數字會出來，加上其他的因素才會是3.57跟1.9，是這樣？"],["陳主計長淑姿：不是，第一個，1到4月是確認的數字去推算其他後面條件不變的原則上，去換算出來是3.57，但是明天整個開會的結果是怎麼樣，就必須要看當天開會的結果，然後我們整個結果會發布新聞這樣子。"],["李委員彥秀：所以結論還是換算出來，最後的結果還是3.57跟1.9？"],["陳主計長淑姿：1.9的部分，事實上通貨膨脹的部分，我們本來是預估1.85%，但是我如果把間接和直接的因素考慮進去的話，按照道理電價的影響它是4月開始嘛！"],["李委員彥秀：5月就會感受到了嘛！"],["陳主計長淑姿：對，5月就會感受到，然後後面的影響大概是沒有一整年啦，就是等於說……"],["李委員彥秀：主計長，所以……"],["陳主計長淑姿：所以這樣子大概是2.03啦！"],["李委員彥秀：喔！這樣就衝破楊金龍防線了，楊金龍防線2.0%是人民極感痛苦呢！2.0%你我都知道，因為我們都是女性嘛！常常在買東西，我們感受度會很深的。"],["陳主計長淑姿：是，是。"],["李委員彥秀：2.0%是楊金龍防線，那麼我就要請問主計長，我們今年看起來經濟成長率是不錯，但事實上有沒有那麼樂觀啊？因為我們出口的存貨率事實上都已經高於我們過去的平均值，過去平均值是65%，我們現在是87.2%，所以經濟有沒有真的那麼樂觀？我覺得還是未知數，要參考、要去思考喔！"],["陳主計長淑姿：是。"],["李委員彥秀：剛才我聽到其他委員有請教您，就是我們去年的受僱人員實質薪資是負成長，對不對？你知道已經負成長幾年了？"],["陳主計長淑姿：但是今年有正成長啊！今年第一季……"],["李委員彥秀：第一季嘛！第一季是負的？"],["陳主計長淑姿：去年是負成長，今年第一季已經正成長了。"],["李委員彥秀：那麼整年度會不會正成長？"],["陳主計長淑姿：應該預估是OK的啦！"],["李委員彥秀：你預估是OK的？你看好今年是正成長，因為今年通膨率到底2%到多少還不知道。"],["陳主計長淑姿：但是如果說我換算通膨率，現在第一季的通膨率換算之後是成長0.88%啦！"],["李委員彥秀：所以你比過去的朱澤民、朱大掌櫃，主計長，你對於今年民眾的經濟成長率，還有包括通膨的狀況，我覺得你還是滿樂觀的啦！過去人民的實質總薪資已經連續幾年負成長，你知道嗎？召委，我最後一個問題，你知道幾年嗎？"],["陳主計長淑姿：總薪資只有去年是負成長。"],["李委員彥秀：負成長？"],["陳主計長淑姿：對。"],["李委員彥秀：但是經常性的實質薪資，你知道已經幾年了？"],["陳主計長淑姿：它是有三年啦！"],["李委員彥秀：有三年喔！好，今年你認為可以轉正就對了？"],["陳主計長淑姿：對，其實今年第一季的經常性薪資是有增加，但是它如果換算通膨膨脹率的話，就會變成是減少0.09%啦！"],["李委員彥秀：但還是正的嗎？"],["陳主計長淑姿：是啊，但是總薪資是增加0.88%。"],["李委員彥秀：我問的是受僱人員經常性的實質薪資今年會轉正？"],["陳主計長淑姿：對，因為總薪資……"],["李委員彥秀：你覺得會轉正，因為朱澤民之前回答我是一半一半，你預估是會轉正就對了？"],["陳主計長淑姿：是，因為總薪資是整個進到……"],["李委員彥秀：我知道，總薪資我知道……"],["陳主計長淑姿：因為總薪資是增加的……"],["李委員彥秀：我問的是受僱人員經常性實質薪資？"],["陳主計長淑姿：但是經常性薪資我不敢講，因為經常性薪資大概就是這個水準，但是這個水準轉換成通貨膨脹率的部分，大概就是……"],["李委員彥秀：所以你不確定多少的比例？"],["陳主計長淑姿：負一點點啦！"],["李委員彥秀：多少？50、50，你還是50、50，還是沒有機會？你沒有回答我的問題，你講了半天，你看召委已經站起來了，到底你的看法是什麼？你不會沒有想法啊！"],["主席：請主計長會後補充一些資料。"],["陳主計長淑姿：是、是、是。"],["李委員彥秀：他回答我就好，最後一句，到底是多少？50、50？還是沒有機會？還是負成長？"],["陳主計長淑姿：這個部分如果是以現在這樣子來看的話，它就是以現在這個狀況來呈現啦！對，因為經常性薪資大概普遍是現在這樣。"],["李委員彥秀：正的還是負的？"],["陳主計長淑姿：負一點點啦。"],["李委員彥秀：負一點點，所以還是負的，好。謝謝！"],["主席：好，謝謝李彥秀委員質詢。","接著請黃珊珊委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":108,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-14","speakers":["郭國文","林德福","吳秉叡","顏寬恒","賴惠員","賴士葆","王鴻薇","王世堅","李彥秀","黃珊珊","李坤城","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳玉珍","羅明才","鄭天財Sra 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\"們\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 208.92, \"end\": 209.06, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 209.06, \"end\": 209.1, \"score\": 0.563}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 209.1, \"end\": 209.38, \"score\": 0.76}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 209.38, \"end\": 209.62, \"score\": 0.685}, {\"word\": \"賴\"}, {\"word\": \"清\", \"start\": 209.62, \"end\": 209.781, \"score\": 0.732}, {\"word\": \"德\", \"start\": 209.781, \"end\": 209.921, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"怎\", \"start\": 209.921, \"end\": 209.941, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 209.941, \"end\": 210.001, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 210.001, \"end\": 210.021, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"擔\"}, {\"word\": \"任\", \"start\": 210.021, \"end\": 210.041, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 212.983, \"end\": 239.399, \"text\": \"市長賴清德臺南市財政大感失利財務法沒有通過自有裁員比例是非常低的但是行政院長賴清德講說財政劃分法修正案行政院一定要正視這個問題兩次的行政院院長賴清德都支持財務法要處理所以這件事情我要提醒你們不要換了一個位置換了一個腦袋這是我今天我想你來這地方你更知道地方的痛苦\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 212.983, \"end\": 213.483, \"score\": 0.689}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"賴\"}, {\"word\": \"清\", \"start\": 213.483, \"end\": 213.703, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"德\", \"start\": 213.703, \"end\": 214.023, \"score\": 0.728}, {\"word\": \"臺\"}, {\"word\": \"南\", \"start\": 214.023, \"end\": 214.203, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 214.203, \"end\": 214.964, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"財\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 214.964, \"end\": 215.404, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 215.404, \"end\": 215.604, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"感\", \"start\": 215.604, \"end\": 215.844, \"score\": 0.711}, {\"word\": \"失\", \"start\": 215.844, \"end\": 216.024, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"利\", \"start\": 216.024, \"end\": 216.765, \"score\": 0.754}, {\"word\": \"財\"}, 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\"text\": \"所以這件事情你應該大力疾呼你現在擔任國家的大掌櫃主計長這件事情要怎麼處理既然市長的賴清德支持行政院長賴清德支持你過去在主計長的時候在台南市的時候你也支持沒有道理你擔任國家大掌櫃你換了一個屁股換了一個腦袋我們怎麼樣對人民交代\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 240.299, \"end\": 240.459, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 240.459, \"end\": 240.559, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 240.559, \"end\": 240.78, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 240.78, \"end\": 240.9, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 240.9, \"end\": 241.1, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 241.1, \"end\": 241.54, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 241.54, \"end\": 241.681, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 241.681, \"end\": 241.881, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"疾\", \"start\": 241.881, \"end\": 242.101, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"呼\", \"start\": 242.101, \"end\": 242.622, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 242.622, \"end\": 243.042, \"score\": 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427.511, \"text\": \"這個部分像因為第一季我們的經濟成長是6.51所以本身我們本來是預估這個數字3.57跟1.9這個是我在媒體上看到數字是這樣嗎明天我們要開會的國民所得評審會議上是這樣嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 419.265, \"end\": 419.445, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 419.445, \"end\": 419.805, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"像\", \"start\": 419.805, \"end\": 420.346, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 420.346, \"end\": 420.786, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 420.786, \"end\": 420.946, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 420.946, \"end\": 421.126, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"季\", \"start\": 421.126, \"end\": 421.346, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 421.346, \"end\": 421.807, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 421.807, \"end\": 422.327, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"濟\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 422.327, \"end\": 422.668, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, 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\"end\": 717.743, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}], \"language\": \"en\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,829 --> 00:00:17,494\n接 受 我 們 的 質 詢 , 首 先 要 先 恭 喜 你 , 但 是 我 想 你 也 非 常 清 楚 , 過 去 你 都 是 法 家 , 你 的 法 家 在 台 南 市 法 家 , 法 家 現 在 掌 握 整 個 國 家 , 法 家 是 你 , 我 想 你 一 定 非 常 清 楚 了 解 這 個 地 方 的 感 受\n\n2\n00:00:18,394 --> 00:00:33,718\n所 以 過 去 無 論 是 地 方 的 財 源 來 自 促 餐 ： 包 括 委 外 的 經 營 ： 包 括 地 上 權 ： 包 括 事 有 重 劃 來 去 處 理 想 辦 法 東 起 西 挪 想 辦 法 去 找 錢 但 是 我 們 都 知 道 其 實 巧 複 為 難 為 無 米 之 炊 所 以 過 去 無 論 是 臺 南 市 長 的 賴 清 德\n\n3\n00:00:41,340 --> 00:00:41,380\n李 彥 秀\n\n4\n00:00:56,625 --> 00:01:22,791\n賴 清 德 也 說 對 台 南 市 非 常 不 公 平 以 台 南 是 文 化 的 首 都 單 純 以 人 口 作 為 分 配 的 依 據 其 實 他 覺 得 是 有 調 整 的 必 要 那 我 先 就 這 個 問 題 財 化 法 現 在 已 經 2 5 年 沒 有 修 了 現 在 很 多 區 域 的 立 委 各 政 黨 對 於 財 化 法 的 處 理 都 有 想 法 也 提 案 那 我 先 請 教 主 計 長 你 對 於 財 化 法 2 5 年 沒 修 你 覺 得 該 不 該 修\n\n5\n00:01:25,028 --> 00:01:43,493\n事 實 上 財 劃 法 的 一 個 這 個 主 導 的 單 位 是 財 政 部 那 這 個 部 分 財 劃 法 為 什 麼 會 這 麼 多 年 一 直 沒 有 修 是 因 為 他 修 也 有 他 的 一 個 困 難 因 為 本 身 第 一 個 個 限 是 他 的 條 件 不 一 樣 財 政 的 一 個 負 擔\n\n6\n00:01:44,153 --> 00:01:44,573\n主 席 主 席 主 席\n\n7\n00:02:09,167 --> 00:02:36,242\n你 如 果 說 我 是 台 南 市 政 府 主 計 處 處 長 我 會 希 望 修 正 因 為 我 希 望 取 得 更 多 的 財 源 越 多 越 好 但 是 我 希 望 如 果 站 在 全 國 的 立 場 我 希 望 能 夠 調 劑 營 需 因 為 每 個 縣 市 他 都 不 一 樣 他 的 條 件 都 不 相 同 財 政 的 差 距 也 不 相 同 所 以 你 必 須 要 以 中 央 他 必 須 要 有 一 個 能 一 個 額 度 給 他 來 做 調 整 的 作 用 所 以 那 你 到 底 是 支 持 不 支 持 我 聽 到 沒 有 你 說 幾 句 沒 有\n\n8\n00:02:37,383 --> 00:03:03,625\n但 是 我 就 說 現 行 的 制 度 是 不 是 有 分 配 到 公 平 因 為 我 以 現 行 來 講 所 以 才 要 討 論 嘛 所 以 你 到 底 支 持 不 支 持 哪 一 個 版 本 我 們 可 以 討 論 但 是 你 覺 得 該 不 該 處 理 但 是 以 現 在 的 現 狀 來 講 我 透 過 一 般 的 縣 市 的 一 個 補 助 包 括 計 劃 型 計 劃 的 一 個 補 助 他 都 能 夠 調 整 各 縣 市 的 一 個 符 合 各 縣 市 的 需 求 主 席 長 你 也 知 道 啦 那 就 要 看 中 央 臉 色 啦 齁\n\n9\n00:03:04,145 --> 00:03:30,041\n有 的 有 , 有 的 沒 有 啦 所 以 我 覺 得 制 度 化 的 處 理 或 我 們 更 明 確 的 討 論 是 有 必 要 性 所 以 你 剛 才 浪 費 我 的 時 間 我 覺 得 我 剛 提 出 來 你 感 受 最 深 大 家 看 中 央 的 臉 色 我 這 一 筆 給 你 那 一 筆 不 給 你 每 一 年 的 狀 況 不 一 樣 對 於 地 方 財 政 每 一 年 你 有 多 少 錢 可 以 做 多 少 事 情 你 不 確 定 性 就 增 加 了 嘛 這 個 你 比 我 更 清 楚 你 不 要 換 了 一 個 位 置 換 了 腦 袋 我 們 來 看 一 下 過 去 賴 清 德 怎 麼 講 你 看 擔 任\n\n10\n00:03:32,983 --> 00:03:59,399\n市 長 賴 清 德 臺 南 市 財 政 大 感 失 利 財 務 法 沒 有 通 過 自 有 裁 員 比 例 是 非 常 低 的 但 是 行 政 院 長 賴 清 德 講 說 財 政 劃 分 法 修 正 案 行 政 院 一 定 要 正 視 這 個 問 題 兩 次 的 行 政 院 院 長 賴 清 德 都 支 持 財 務 法 要 處 理 所 以 這 件 事 情 我 要 提 醒 你 們 不 要 換 了 一 個 位 置 換 了 一 個 腦 袋 這 是 我 今 天 我 想 你 來 這 地 方 你 更 知 道 地 方 的 痛 苦\n\n11\n00:04:00,299 --> 00:04:21,782\n所 以 這 件 事 情 你 應 該 大 力 疾 呼 你 現 在 擔 任 國 家 的 大 掌 櫃 主 計 長 這 件 事 情 要 怎 麼 處 理 既 然 市 長 的 賴 清 德 支 持 行 政 院 長 賴 清 德 支 持 你 過 去 在 主 計 長 的 時 候 在 台 南 市 的 時 候 你 也 支 持 沒 有 道 理 你 擔 任 國 家 大 掌 櫃 你 換 了 一 個 屁 股 換 了 一 個 腦 袋 我 們 怎 麼 樣 對 人 民 交 代\n\n12\n00:04:22,663 --> 00:04:43,041\n至 於 什 麼 樣 的 方 向 我 覺 得 可 以 大 家 再 來 討 論 不 然 處 理 是 不 能 交 代 的 好 不 好 這 個 是 我 第 一 個 問 題 那 我 不 希 望 這 件 事 情 再 一 次 跳 票 所 以 過 去 特 別 是 我 們 也 講 說 過 去 幾 年 中 央 財 政 都 很 好 啊 稅 金 剩 餘 都 很 多 啊 今 年 看 起 來 我 們 的 經 濟 成 長 又 到 6 . 5 3\n\n13\n00:04:44,542 --> 00:04:45,223\n李 彥 秀 主 席\n\n14\n00:05:03,462 --> 00:05:04,423\n所 以 卓 院 長 的 態 度 怎 麼 樣 ?\n\n15\n00:05:33,735 --> 00:05:33,975\n主 席\n\n16\n00:05:44,625 --> 00:05:59,710\n那 你 內 部 都 沒 有 討 論 過 我 們 再 來 要 做 業 務 報 告 可 能 要 針 對 這 個 部 分 也 做 好 那 我 期 待 下 一 次 我 還 是 會 繼 續 追 這 個 問 題 我 來 看 看 過 去 台 南 市 的 主 計 長 現 在 國 家 大 黨 會 中 央 的 國 際 處 長 現 在 的 我 們 主 計 長 到 底 有 沒 有 換 了 一 個 屁 股 換 了 一 個 腦 袋 也 要 想 辦 法 要 落 實 賴 總 統 賴 市 長 賴 行 政 院 長 政 策 到 底 有 沒 有 做 調 整\n\n17\n00:06:11,533 --> 00:06:12,555\n通 膨 與 經 濟 成 長 率 問 題 今 年 首 季 經 濟 成 長 率 預 估 達 到 6 . 5 1 明 天 舉 辦 國 民 所 得 評 審 會 議\n\n18\n00:06:27,856 --> 00:06:39,303\n最 近 我 看 到 我 們 今 年 其 實 首 一 季 的 經 濟 成 長 率 是 不 錯 的 我 們 看 看 2 0 2 3 年 的 1 1 月 經 濟 成 長 率 是 3 . 3 5 % 通 膨 是 1 . 6 4 2 0 2 2 月 每 三 個 月 做 一 次 經 濟 成 長 率 3 . 4 3 通 膨 1 . 8 5 我 有 看 到 一 個 數 字 主 計 長 我 們 明 年 要 公 佈 的 這 個 數 字 經 濟 成 長 率 是 3 . 5 7 我 們 通 膨 是 1 . 9 是 這 樣 嗎\n\n19\n00:06:59,265 --> 00:07:07,511\n這 個 部 分 像 因 為 第 一 季 我 們 的 經 濟 成 長 是 6 . 5 1 所 以 本 身 我 們 本 來 是 預 估 這 個 數 字 3 . 5 7 跟 1 . 9 這 個 是 我 在 媒 體 上 看 到 數 字 是 這 樣 嗎 明 天 我 們 要 開 會 的 國 民 所 得 評 審 會 議 上 是 這 樣 嗎\n\n20\n00:07:15,418 --> 00:07:15,458\n李 彥 秀\n\n21\n00:07:35,058 --> 00:07:35,518\n其 他 數 字 換 算 加 了 其 他 的 因 素 算 出 來 還 是 3 . 5 7\n\n22\n00:07:56,550 --> 00:08:14,009\n就 是 以 1 到 4 月 實 際 發 生 的 狀 況 去 推 算 的 結 果 其 他 條 件 後 面 的 就 是 原 預 估 的 不 變 這 樣 的 話 才 有 3 . 5 7 那 也 是 以 明 天 的 這 個 數 字 會 出 來 那 加 上 其 他 的 因 素 才 會 是 3 . 5 7 跟 1 . 9\n\n23\n00:08:16,155 --> 00:08:16,875\n所 以 結 論 還 是 換 算 出 來 最 後 的 結 果 還 是 3 . 5 7 跟 1 . 9\n\n24\n00:08:39,221 --> 00:09:02,346\n1 . 9 的 部 分 事 實 上 通 貨 膨 脹 的 部 分 我 們 本 來 是 預 估 1 . 8 5 但 是 我 如 果 把 那 個 間 接 和 直 接 的 因 素 考 慮 進 去 的 話 按 照 道 理 電 價 的 影 響 他 是 4 月 開 始 5 月 就 會 感 受 到 了 5 月 就 會 感 受 到 然 後 後 面 的 影 響 就 是 大 概 是 沒 有 一 整 年 就 是 等 於 說 主 席 長 所 以 這 樣 叫 大 概 2 . 0 3\n\n25\n00:09:04,446 --> 00:09:04,686\n那 我 就 要 請 問 主 計 長\n\n26\n00:09:21,403 --> 00:09:35,530\n我 們 今 年 看 起 來 經 濟 成 長 率 是 不 錯 但 事 實 上 有 沒 有 那 麼 樂 觀 因 為 我 們 的 出 口 的 存 貨 率 事 實 上 都 已 經 高 於 我 們 過 去 的 平 均 值 過 去 平 均 值 6 5 % 我 們 現 在 8 7 . 2 % 所 以 經 濟 有 沒 有 那 麼 樂 觀 我 覺 得 還 是 未 知 數 要 參 考 要 去 思 考 那 剛 才 我 聽 到 其 他 委 員 有 請 教 您 就 是 說 我 們\n\n27\n00:09:46,315 --> 00:10:11,148\n去 年 的 收 購 員 工 實 質 薪 資 是 負 成 長 嘛 對 不 對 你 知 道 負 成 長 多 久 了 幾 年 啊 但 是 今 年 有 正 成 長 嘛 今 年 第 一 季 第 一 季 嘛 第 一 季 是 負 的 去 年 是 負 成 長 今 年 第 一 季 已 經 正 成 長 了 那 整 年 度 會 不 會 正 成 長 應 該 預 估 是 O K 的 你 預 估 是 O K 的 你 看 好 今 年 是 正 成 長\n\n28\n00:10:12,754 --> 00:10:14,717\n但 是 如 果 說 我 換 算 通 膨 現 在 第 一 季 的 通 膨 換 算 之 後 我 是 成 長 0 . 8 8\n\n29\n00:10:24,293 --> 00:10:36,827\n所 以 你 比 過 去 的 朱 哲 銘 、 朱 大 掌 櫃 你 對 於 今 年 民 眾 的 經 濟 成 長 率 還 有 包 括 通 膨 的 狀 況 我 覺 得 你 還 是 蠻 樂 觀 的 啦 你 覺 得 實 質 人 民 的 實 質 因 為 過 去 實 質 總 薪 資 已 經 連 續 幾 年 負 成 長 你 知 道 嗎\n\n30\n00:10:44,943 --> 00:10:46,104\n總 薪 資 只 有 去 年 是 副 成 長 , 經 常 性 的 實 質 薪 資 只 有 3 年 , 今 年 可 以 轉 正 就 對 了\n\n31\n00:11:00,573 --> 00:11:27,759\n因 為 今 年 其 實 今 年 的 第 一 季 的 那 個 經 常 性 薪 資 他 是 有 增 加 但 是 他 如 果 換 算 那 個 通 膨 的 一 個 膨 脹 率 的 部 分 通 膨 的 綠 綠 的 話 就 會 變 成 是 減 少 0 . 0 9 但 還 是 正 的 嗎 但 是 總 薪 資 是 增 加 0 . 8 8 但 我 問 的 是 受 僱 人 員 經 常 性 的 實 質 薪 資 今 年 會 轉 正 你 覺 得 會 轉 正 因 為 朱 哲 銘 之 前 回 答 我 是 一 半 一 半\n\n32\n00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:56,562\n你 預 估 是 會 轉 正 就 對 了 總 薪 資 是 整 個 進 口 我 知 道 總 薪 資 我 知 道 我 問 的 是 受 僱 人 員 的 經 常 性 的 實 施 薪 資 經 常 性 薪 資 我 不 敢 講 因 為 經 常 性 薪 資 大 概 就 是 這 個 水 準 但 是 這 個 水 準 轉 換 通 貨 膨 脹 率 的 部 分 所 以 你 不 確 定 多 少 的 比 例 多 少 5 0 5 0 你 還 是 5 0 5 0 還 是 沒 有 機 會 你 沒 有 回 答 我 問 題 你 看 稍 微 已 經 站 起 來 到 底 你 的 看 法 是 什 麼\n\n33\n00:11:57,503 --> 00:11:57,743\n黃 珊 珊 委 員 質 詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n829\t17494\t接受我們的質詢,首先要先恭喜你,但是我想你也非常清楚,過去你都是法家,你的法家在台南市法家,法家現在掌握整個國家,法家是你,我想你一定非常清楚了解這個地方的感受\n18394\t33718\t所以過去無論是地方的財源來自促餐：包括委外的經營：包括地上權：包括事有重劃來去處理想辦法東起西挪想辦法去找錢但是我們都知道其實巧複為難為無米之炊所以過去無論是臺南市長的賴清德\n41340\t41380\t李彥秀\n56625\t82791\t賴清德也說對台南市非常不公平以台南是文化的首都單純以人口作為分配的依據其實他覺得是有調整的必要那我先就這個問題財化法現在已經25年沒有修了現在很多區域的立委各政黨對於財化法的處理都有想法也提案那我先請教主計長你對於財化法25年沒修你覺得該不該修\n85028\t103493\t事實上財劃法的一個這個主導的單位是財政部那這個部分財劃法為什麼會這麼多年一直沒有修是因為他修也有他的一個困難因為本身第一個個限是他的條件不一樣財政的一個負擔\n104153\t104573\t主席主席主席\n129167\t156242\t你如果說我是台南市政府主計處處長我會希望修正因為我希望取得更多的財源越多越好但是我希望如果站在全國的立場我希望能夠調劑營需因為每個縣市他都不一樣他的條件都不相同財政的差距也不相同所以你必須要以中央他必須要有一個能一個額度給他來做調整的作用所以那你到底是支持不支持我聽到沒有你說幾句沒有\n157383\t183625\t但是我就說現行的制度是不是有分配到公平因為我以現行來講所以才要討論嘛所以你到底支持不支持哪一個版本我們可以討論但是你覺得該不該處理但是以現在的現狀來講我透過一般的縣市的一個補助包括計劃型計劃的一個補助他都能夠調整各縣市的一個符合各縣市的需求主席長你也知道啦那就要看中央臉色啦齁\n184145\t210041\t有的有,有的沒有啦所以我覺得制度化的處理或我們更明確的討論是有必要性所以你剛才浪費我的時間我覺得我剛提出來你感受最深大家看中央的臉色我這一筆給你那一筆不給你每一年的狀況不一樣對於地方財政每一年你有多少錢可以做多少事情你不確定性就增加了嘛這個你比我更清楚你不要換了一個位置換了腦袋我們來看一下過去賴清德怎麼講你看擔任\n212983\t239399\t市長賴清德臺南市財政大感失利財務法沒有通過自有裁員比例是非常低的但是行政院長賴清德講說財政劃分法修正案行政院一定要正視這個問題兩次的行政院院長賴清德都支持財務法要處理所以這件事情我要提醒你們不要換了一個位置換了一個腦袋這是我今天我想你來這地方你更知道地方的痛苦\n240299\t261782\t所以這件事情你應該大力疾呼你現在擔任國家的大掌櫃主計長這件事情要怎麼處理既然市長的賴清德支持行政院長賴清德支持你過去在主計長的時候在台南市的時候你也支持沒有道理你擔任國家大掌櫃你換了一個屁股換了一個腦袋我們怎麼樣對人民交代\n262663\t283041\t至於什麼樣的方向我覺得可以大家再來討論不然處理是不能交代的好不好這個是我第一個問題那我不希望這件事情再一次跳票所以過去特別是我們也講說過去幾年中央財政都很好啊稅金剩餘都很多啊今年看起來我們的經濟成長又到6.53\n284542\t285223\t李彥秀 主席\n303462\t304423\t所以卓院長的態度怎麼樣?\n333735\t333975\t主席\n344625\t359710\t那你內部都沒有討論過我們再來要做業務報告可能要針對這個部分也做好那我期待下一次我還是會繼續追這個問題我來看看過去台南市的主計長現在國家大黨會中央的國際處長現在的我們主計長到底有沒有換了一個屁股換了一個腦袋也要想辦法要落實賴總統賴市長賴行政院長政策到底有沒有做調整\n371533\t372555\t通膨與經濟成長率問題今年首季經濟成長率預估達到6.51明天舉辦國民所得評審會議\n387856\t399303\t最近我看到我們今年其實首一季的經濟成長率是不錯的我們看看2023年的11月經濟成長率是3.35%通膨是1.642022月每三個月做一次經濟成長率3.43通膨1.85我有看到一個數字主計長我們明年要公佈的這個數字經濟成長率是3.57我們通膨是1.9是這樣嗎\n419265\t427511\t這個部分像因為第一季我們的經濟成長是6.51所以本身我們本來是預估這個數字3.57跟1.9這個是我在媒體上看到數字是這樣嗎明天我們要開會的國民所得評審會議上是這樣嗎\n435418\t435458\t李彥秀\n455058\t455518\t其他數字換算加了其他的因素算出來還是3.57\n476550\t494009\t就是以1到4月實際發生的狀況去推算的結果其他條件後面的就是原預估的不變這樣的話才有3.57那也是以明天的這個數字會出來那加上其他的因素才會是3.57跟1.9\n496155\t496875\t所以結論還是換算出來最後的結果還是3.57跟1.9\n519221\t542346\t1.9的部分事實上通貨膨脹的部分我們本來是預估1.85但是我如果把那個間接和直接的因素考慮進去的話按照道理電價的影響他是4月開始5月就會感受到了5月就會感受到然後後面的影響就是大概是沒有一整年就是等於說主席長所以這樣叫大概2.03\n544446\t544686\t那我就要請問主計長\n561403\t575530\t我們今年看起來經濟成長率是不錯但事實上有沒有那麼樂觀因為我們的出口的存貨率事實上都已經高於我們過去的平均值過去平均值65%我們現在87.2%所以經濟有沒有那麼樂觀我覺得還是未知數要參考要去思考那剛才我聽到其他委員有請教您就是說我們\n586315\t611148\t去年的收購員工實質薪資是負成長嘛 對不對你知道負成長多久了 幾年啊但是今年有正成長嘛 今年第一季第一季嘛 第一季是負的去年是負成長 今年第一季已經正成長了那整年度會不會正成長應該預估是OK的你預估是OK的 你看好今年是正成長\n612754\t614717\t但是如果說我換算通膨現在第一季的通膨換算之後我是成長0.88\n624293\t636827\t所以你比過去的朱哲銘、朱大掌櫃你對於今年民眾的經濟成長率還有包括通膨的狀況我覺得你還是蠻樂觀的啦你覺得實質人民的實質因為過去實質總薪資已經連續幾年負成長你知道嗎\n644943\t646104\t總薪資只有去年是副成長,經常性的實質薪資只有3年,今年可以轉正就對了\n660573\t687759\t因為今年其實今年的第一季的那個經常性薪資他是有增加但是他如果換算那個通膨的一個膨脹率的部分通膨的綠綠的話就會變成是減少0.09但還是正的嗎但是總薪資是增加0.88但我問的是受僱人員經常性的實質薪資今年會轉正你覺得會轉正因為朱哲銘之前回答我是一半一半\n689080\t716562\t你預估是會轉正就對了總薪資是整個進口我知道總薪資我知道我問的是受僱人員的經常性的實施薪資經常性薪資我不敢講因為經常性薪資大概就是這個水準但是這個水準轉換通貨膨脹率的部分所以你不確定多少的比例多少50 50你還是50 50還是沒有機會你沒有回答我問題你看稍微已經站起來到底你的看法是什麼\n717503\t717743\t黃珊珊委員質詢\n","txt":"接受我們的質詢,首先要先恭喜你,但是我想你也非常清楚,過去你都是法家,你的法家在台南市法家,法家現在掌握整個國家,法家是你,我想你一定非常清楚了解這個地方的感受\n所以過去無論是地方的財源來自促餐：包括委外的經營：包括地上權：包括事有重劃來去處理想辦法東起西挪想辦法去找錢但是我們都知道其實巧複為難為無米之炊所以過去無論是臺南市長的賴清德\n李彥秀\n賴清德也說對台南市非常不公平以台南是文化的首都單純以人口作為分配的依據其實他覺得是有調整的必要那我先就這個問題財化法現在已經25年沒有修了現在很多區域的立委各政黨對於財化法的處理都有想法也提案那我先請教主計長你對於財化法25年沒修你覺得該不該修\n事實上財劃法的一個這個主導的單位是財政部那這個部分財劃法為什麼會這麼多年一直沒有修是因為他修也有他的一個困難因為本身第一個個限是他的條件不一樣財政的一個負擔\n主席主席主席\n你如果說我是台南市政府主計處處長我會希望修正因為我希望取得更多的財源越多越好但是我希望如果站在全國的立場我希望能夠調劑營需因為每個縣市他都不一樣他的條件都不相同財政的差距也不相同所以你必須要以中央他必須要有一個能一個額度給他來做調整的作用所以那你到底是支持不支持我聽到沒有你說幾句沒有\n但是我就說現行的制度是不是有分配到公平因為我以現行來講所以才要討論嘛所以你到底支持不支持哪一個版本我們可以討論但是你覺得該不該處理但是以現在的現狀來講我透過一般的縣市的一個補助包括計劃型計劃的一個補助他都能夠調整各縣市的一個符合各縣市的需求主席長你也知道啦那就要看中央臉色啦齁\n有的有,有的沒有啦所以我覺得制度化的處理或我們更明確的討論是有必要性所以你剛才浪費我的時間我覺得我剛提出來你感受最深大家看中央的臉色我這一筆給你那一筆不給你每一年的狀況不一樣對於地方財政每一年你有多少錢可以做多少事情你不確定性就增加了嘛這個你比我更清楚你不要換了一個位置換了腦袋我們來看一下過去賴清德怎麼講你看擔任\n市長賴清德臺南市財政大感失利財務法沒有通過自有裁員比例是非常低的但是行政院長賴清德講說財政劃分法修正案行政院一定要正視這個問題兩次的行政院院長賴清德都支持財務法要處理所以這件事情我要提醒你們不要換了一個位置換了一個腦袋這是我今天我想你來這地方你更知道地方的痛苦\n所以這件事情你應該大力疾呼你現在擔任國家的大掌櫃主計長這件事情要怎麼處理既然市長的賴清德支持行政院長賴清德支持你過去在主計長的時候在台南市的時候你也支持沒有道理你擔任國家大掌櫃你換了一個屁股換了一個腦袋我們怎麼樣對人民交代\n至於什麼樣的方向我覺得可以大家再來討論不然處理是不能交代的好不好這個是我第一個問題那我不希望這件事情再一次跳票所以過去特別是我們也講說過去幾年中央財政都很好啊稅金剩餘都很多啊今年看起來我們的經濟成長又到6.53\n李彥秀 主席\n所以卓院長的態度怎麼樣?\n主席\n那你內部都沒有討論過我們再來要做業務報告可能要針對這個部分也做好那我期待下一次我還是會繼續追這個問題我來看看過去台南市的主計長現在國家大黨會中央的國際處長現在的我們主計長到底有沒有換了一個屁股換了一個腦袋也要想辦法要落實賴總統賴市長賴行政院長政策到底有沒有做調整\n通膨與經濟成長率問題今年首季經濟成長率預估達到6.51明天舉辦國民所得評審會議\n最近我看到我們今年其實首一季的經濟成長率是不錯的我們看看2023年的11月經濟成長率是3.35%通膨是1.642022月每三個月做一次經濟成長率3.43通膨1.85我有看到一個數字主計長我們明年要公佈的這個數字經濟成長率是3.57我們通膨是1.9是這樣嗎\n這個部分像因為第一季我們的經濟成長是6.51所以本身我們本來是預估這個數字3.57跟1.9這個是我在媒體上看到數字是這樣嗎明天我們要開會的國民所得評審會議上是這樣嗎\n李彥秀\n其他數字換算加了其他的因素算出來還是3.57\n就是以1到4月實際發生的狀況去推算的結果其他條件後面的就是原預估的不變這樣的話才有3.57那也是以明天的這個數字會出來那加上其他的因素才會是3.57跟1.9\n所以結論還是換算出來最後的結果還是3.57跟1.9\n1.9的部分事實上通貨膨脹的部分我們本來是預估1.85但是我如果把那個間接和直接的因素考慮進去的話按照道理電價的影響他是4月開始5月就會感受到了5月就會感受到然後後面的影響就是大概是沒有一整年就是等於說主席長所以這樣叫大概2.03\n那我就要請問主計長\n我們今年看起來經濟成長率是不錯但事實上有沒有那麼樂觀因為我們的出口的存貨率事實上都已經高於我們過去的平均值過去平均值65%我們現在87.2%所以經濟有沒有那麼樂觀我覺得還是未知數要參考要去思考那剛才我聽到其他委員有請教您就是說我們\n去年的收購員工實質薪資是負成長嘛 對不對你知道負成長多久了 幾年啊但是今年有正成長嘛 今年第一季第一季嘛 第一季是負的去年是負成長 今年第一季已經正成長了那整年度會不會正成長應該預估是OK的你預估是OK的 你看好今年是正成長\n但是如果說我換算通膨現在第一季的通膨換算之後我是成長0.88\n所以你比過去的朱哲銘、朱大掌櫃你對於今年民眾的經濟成長率還有包括通膨的狀況我覺得你還是蠻樂觀的啦你覺得實質人民的實質因為過去實質總薪資已經連續幾年負成長你知道嗎\n總薪資只有去年是副成長,經常性的實質薪資只有3年,今年可以轉正就對了\n因為今年其實今年的第一季的那個經常性薪資他是有增加但是他如果換算那個通膨的一個膨脹率的部分通膨的綠綠的話就會變成是減少0.09但還是正的嗎但是總薪資是增加0.88但我問的是受僱人員經常性的實質薪資今年會轉正你覺得會轉正因為朱哲銘之前回答我是一半一半\n你預估是會轉正就對了總薪資是整個進口我知道總薪資我知道我問的是受僱人員的經常性的實施薪資經常性薪資我不敢講因為經常性薪資大概就是這個水準但是這個水準轉換通貨膨脹率的部分所以你不確定多少的比例多少50 50你還是50 50還是沒有機會你沒有回答我問題你看稍微已經站起來到底你的看法是什麼\n黃珊珊委員質詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.829 --> 00:17.494\n接 受 我 們 的 質 詢 , 首 先 要 先 恭 喜 你 , 但 是 我 想 你 也 非 常 清 楚 , 過 去 你 都 是 法 家 , 你 的 法 家 在 台 南 市 法 家 , 法 家 現 在 掌 握 整 個 國 家 , 法 家 是 你 , 我 想 你 一 定 非 常 清 楚 了 解 這 個 地 方 的 感 受\n\n00:18.394 --> 00:33.718\n所 以 過 去 無 論 是 地 方 的 財 源 來 自 促 餐 ： 包 括 委 外 的 經 營 ： 包 括 地 上 權 ： 包 括 事 有 重 劃 來 去 處 理 想 辦 法 東 起 西 挪 想 辦 法 去 找 錢 但 是 我 們 都 知 道 其 實 巧 複 為 難 為 無 米 之 炊 所 以 過 去 無 論 是 臺 南 市 長 的 賴 清 德\n\n00:41.340 --> 00:41.380\n李 彥 秀\n\n00:56.625 --> 01:22.791\n賴 清 德 也 說 對 台 南 市 非 常 不 公 平 以 台 南 是 文 化 的 首 都 單 純 以 人 口 作 為 分 配 的 依 據 其 實 他 覺 得 是 有 調 整 的 必 要 那 我 先 就 這 個 問 題 財 化 法 現 在 已 經 2 5 年 沒 有 修 了 現 在 很 多 區 域 的 立 委 各 政 黨 對 於 財 化 法 的 處 理 都 有 想 法 也 提 案 那 我 先 請 教 主 計 長 你 對 於 財 化 法 2 5 年 沒 修 你 覺 得 該 不 該 修\n\n01:25.028 --> 01:43.493\n事 實 上 財 劃 法 的 一 個 這 個 主 導 的 單 位 是 財 政 部 那 這 個 部 分 財 劃 法 為 什 麼 會 這 麼 多 年 一 直 沒 有 修 是 因 為 他 修 也 有 他 的 一 個 困 難 因 為 本 身 第 一 個 個 限 是 他 的 條 件 不 一 樣 財 政 的 一 個 負 擔\n\n01:44.153 --> 01:44.573\n主 席 主 席 主 席\n\n02:09.167 --> 02:36.242\n你 如 果 說 我 是 台 南 市 政 府 主 計 處 處 長 我 會 希 望 修 正 因 為 我 希 望 取 得 更 多 的 財 源 越 多 越 好 但 是 我 希 望 如 果 站 在 全 國 的 立 場 我 希 望 能 夠 調 劑 營 需 因 為 每 個 縣 市 他 都 不 一 樣 他 的 條 件 都 不 相 同 財 政 的 差 距 也 不 相 同 所 以 你 必 須 要 以 中 央 他 必 須 要 有 一 個 能 一 個 額 度 給 他 來 做 調 整 的 作 用 所 以 那 你 到 底 是 支 持 不 支 持 我 聽 到 沒 有 你 說 幾 句 沒 有\n\n02:37.383 --> 03:03.625\n但 是 我 就 說 現 行 的 制 度 是 不 是 有 分 配 到 公 平 因 為 我 以 現 行 來 講 所 以 才 要 討 論 嘛 所 以 你 到 底 支 持 不 支 持 哪 一 個 版 本 我 們 可 以 討 論 但 是 你 覺 得 該 不 該 處 理 但 是 以 現 在 的 現 狀 來 講 我 透 過 一 般 的 縣 市 的 一 個 補 助 包 括 計 劃 型 計 劃 的 一 個 補 助 他 都 能 夠 調 整 各 縣 市 的 一 個 符 合 各 縣 市 的 需 求 主 席 長 你 也 知 道 啦 那 就 要 看 中 央 臉 色 啦 齁\n\n03:04.145 --> 03:30.041\n有 的 有 , 有 的 沒 有 啦 所 以 我 覺 得 制 度 化 的 處 理 或 我 們 更 明 確 的 討 論 是 有 必 要 性 所 以 你 剛 才 浪 費 我 的 時 間 我 覺 得 我 剛 提 出 來 你 感 受 最 深 大 家 看 中 央 的 臉 色 我 這 一 筆 給 你 那 一 筆 不 給 你 每 一 年 的 狀 況 不 一 樣 對 於 地 方 財 政 每 一 年 你 有 多 少 錢 可 以 做 多 少 事 情 你 不 確 定 性 就 增 加 了 嘛 這 個 你 比 我 更 清 楚 你 不 要 換 了 一 個 位 置 換 了 腦 袋 我 們 來 看 一 下 過 去 賴 清 德 怎 麼 講 你 看 擔 任\n\n03:32.983 --> 03:59.399\n市 長 賴 清 德 臺 南 市 財 政 大 感 失 利 財 務 法 沒 有 通 過 自 有 裁 員 比 例 是 非 常 低 的 但 是 行 政 院 長 賴 清 德 講 說 財 政 劃 分 法 修 正 案 行 政 院 一 定 要 正 視 這 個 問 題 兩 次 的 行 政 院 院 長 賴 清 德 都 支 持 財 務 法 要 處 理 所 以 這 件 事 情 我 要 提 醒 你 們 不 要 換 了 一 個 位 置 換 了 一 個 腦 袋 這 是 我 今 天 我 想 你 來 這 地 方 你 更 知 道 地 方 的 痛 苦\n\n04:00.299 --> 04:21.782\n所 以 這 件 事 情 你 應 該 大 力 疾 呼 你 現 在 擔 任 國 家 的 大 掌 櫃 主 計 長 這 件 事 情 要 怎 麼 處 理 既 然 市 長 的 賴 清 德 支 持 行 政 院 長 賴 清 德 支 持 你 過 去 在 主 計 長 的 時 候 在 台 南 市 的 時 候 你 也 支 持 沒 有 道 理 你 擔 任 國 家 大 掌 櫃 你 換 了 一 個 屁 股 換 了 一 個 腦 袋 我 們 怎 麼 樣 對 人 民 交 代\n\n04:22.663 --> 04:43.041\n至 於 什 麼 樣 的 方 向 我 覺 得 可 以 大 家 再 來 討 論 不 然 處 理 是 不 能 交 代 的 好 不 好 這 個 是 我 第 一 個 問 題 那 我 不 希 望 這 件 事 情 再 一 次 跳 票 所 以 過 去 特 別 是 我 們 也 講 說 過 去 幾 年 中 央 財 政 都 很 好 啊 稅 金 剩 餘 都 很 多 啊 今 年 看 起 來 我 們 的 經 濟 成 長 又 到 6 . 5 3\n\n04:44.542 --> 04:45.223\n李 彥 秀 主 席\n\n05:03.462 --> 05:04.423\n所 以 卓 院 長 的 態 度 怎 麼 樣 ?\n\n05:33.735 --> 05:33.975\n主 席\n\n05:44.625 --> 05:59.710\n那 你 內 部 都 沒 有 討 論 過 我 們 再 來 要 做 業 務 報 告 可 能 要 針 對 這 個 部 分 也 做 好 那 我 期 待 下 一 次 我 還 是 會 繼 續 追 這 個 問 題 我 來 看 看 過 去 台 南 市 的 主 計 長 現 在 國 家 大 黨 會 中 央 的 國 際 處 長 現 在 的 我 們 主 計 長 到 底 有 沒 有 換 了 一 個 屁 股 換 了 一 個 腦 袋 也 要 想 辦 法 要 落 實 賴 總 統 賴 市 長 賴 行 政 院 長 政 策 到 底 有 沒 有 做 調 整\n\n06:11.533 --> 06:12.555\n通 膨 與 經 濟 成 長 率 問 題 今 年 首 季 經 濟 成 長 率 預 估 達 到 6 . 5 1 明 天 舉 辦 國 民 所 得 評 審 會 議\n\n06:27.856 --> 06:39.303\n最 近 我 看 到 我 們 今 年 其 實 首 一 季 的 經 濟 成 長 率 是 不 錯 的 我 們 看 看 2 0 2 3 年 的 1 1 月 經 濟 成 長 率 是 3 . 3 5 % 通 膨 是 1 . 6 4 2 0 2 2 月 每 三 個 月 做 一 次 經 濟 成 長 率 3 . 4 3 通 膨 1 . 8 5 我 有 看 到 一 個 數 字 主 計 長 我 們 明 年 要 公 佈 的 這 個 數 字 經 濟 成 長 率 是 3 . 5 7 我 們 通 膨 是 1 . 9 是 這 樣 嗎\n\n06:59.265 --> 07:07.511\n這 個 部 分 像 因 為 第 一 季 我 們 的 經 濟 成 長 是 6 . 5 1 所 以 本 身 我 們 本 來 是 預 估 這 個 數 字 3 . 5 7 跟 1 . 9 這 個 是 我 在 媒 體 上 看 到 數 字 是 這 樣 嗎 明 天 我 們 要 開 會 的 國 民 所 得 評 審 會 議 上 是 這 樣 嗎\n\n07:15.418 --> 07:15.458\n李 彥 秀\n\n07:35.058 --> 07:35.518\n其 他 數 字 換 算 加 了 其 他 的 因 素 算 出 來 還 是 3 . 5 7\n\n07:56.550 --> 08:14.009\n就 是 以 1 到 4 月 實 際 發 生 的 狀 況 去 推 算 的 結 果 其 他 條 件 後 面 的 就 是 原 預 估 的 不 變 這 樣 的 話 才 有 3 . 5 7 那 也 是 以 明 天 的 這 個 數 字 會 出 來 那 加 上 其 他 的 因 素 才 會 是 3 . 5 7 跟 1 . 9\n\n08:16.155 --> 08:16.875\n所 以 結 論 還 是 換 算 出 來 最 後 的 結 果 還 是 3 . 5 7 跟 1 . 9\n\n08:39.221 --> 09:02.346\n1 . 9 的 部 分 事 實 上 通 貨 膨 脹 的 部 分 我 們 本 來 是 預 估 1 . 8 5 但 是 我 如 果 把 那 個 間 接 和 直 接 的 因 素 考 慮 進 去 的 話 按 照 道 理 電 價 的 影 響 他 是 4 月 開 始 5 月 就 會 感 受 到 了 5 月 就 會 感 受 到 然 後 後 面 的 影 響 就 是 大 概 是 沒 有 一 整 年 就 是 等 於 說 主 席 長 所 以 這 樣 叫 大 概 2 . 0 3\n\n09:04.446 --> 09:04.686\n那 我 就 要 請 問 主 計 長\n\n09:21.403 --> 09:35.530\n我 們 今 年 看 起 來 經 濟 成 長 率 是 不 錯 但 事 實 上 有 沒 有 那 麼 樂 觀 因 為 我 們 的 出 口 的 存 貨 率 事 實 上 都 已 經 高 於 我 們 過 去 的 平 均 值 過 去 平 均 值 6 5 % 我 們 現 在 8 7 . 2 % 所 以 經 濟 有 沒 有 那 麼 樂 觀 我 覺 得 還 是 未 知 數 要 參 考 要 去 思 考 那 剛 才 我 聽 到 其 他 委 員 有 請 教 您 就 是 說 我 們\n\n09:46.315 --> 10:11.148\n去 年 的 收 購 員 工 實 質 薪 資 是 負 成 長 嘛 對 不 對 你 知 道 負 成 長 多 久 了 幾 年 啊 但 是 今 年 有 正 成 長 嘛 今 年 第 一 季 第 一 季 嘛 第 一 季 是 負 的 去 年 是 負 成 長 今 年 第 一 季 已 經 正 成 長 了 那 整 年 度 會 不 會 正 成 長 應 該 預 估 是 O K 的 你 預 估 是 O K 的 你 看 好 今 年 是 正 成 長\n\n10:12.754 --> 10:14.717\n但 是 如 果 說 我 換 算 通 膨 現 在 第 一 季 的 通 膨 換 算 之 後 我 是 成 長 0 . 8 8\n\n10:24.293 --> 10:36.827\n所 以 你 比 過 去 的 朱 哲 銘 、 朱 大 掌 櫃 你 對 於 今 年 民 眾 的 經 濟 成 長 率 還 有 包 括 通 膨 的 狀 況 我 覺 得 你 還 是 蠻 樂 觀 的 啦 你 覺 得 實 質 人 民 的 實 質 因 為 過 去 實 質 總 薪 資 已 經 連 續 幾 年 負 成 長 你 知 道 嗎\n\n10:44.943 --> 10:46.104\n總 薪 資 只 有 去 年 是 副 成 長 , 經 常 性 的 實 質 薪 資 只 有 3 年 , 今 年 可 以 轉 正 就 對 了\n\n11:00.573 --> 11:27.759\n因 為 今 年 其 實 今 年 的 第 一 季 的 那 個 經 常 性 薪 資 他 是 有 增 加 但 是 他 如 果 換 算 那 個 通 膨 的 一 個 膨 脹 率 的 部 分 通 膨 的 綠 綠 的 話 就 會 變 成 是 減 少 0 . 0 9 但 還 是 正 的 嗎 但 是 總 薪 資 是 增 加 0 . 8 8 但 我 問 的 是 受 僱 人 員 經 常 性 的 實 質 薪 資 今 年 會 轉 正 你 覺 得 會 轉 正 因 為 朱 哲 銘 之 前 回 答 我 是 一 半 一 半\n\n11:29.080 --> 11:56.562\n你 預 估 是 會 轉 正 就 對 了 總 薪 資 是 整 個 進 口 我 知 道 總 薪 資 我 知 道 我 問 的 是 受 僱 人 員 的 經 常 性 的 實 施 薪 資 經 常 性 薪 資 我 不 敢 講 因 為 經 常 性 薪 資 大 概 就 是 這 個 水 準 但 是 這 個 水 準 轉 換 通 貨 膨 脹 率 的 部 分 所 以 你 不 確 定 多 少 的 比 例 多 少 5 0 5 0 你 還 是 5 0 5 0 還 是 沒 有 機 會 你 沒 有 回 答 我 問 題 你 看 稍 微 已 經 站 起 來 到 底 你 的 看 法 是 什 麼\n\n11:57.503 --> 11:57.743\n黃 珊 珊 委 員 質 詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.829,"end":17.494,"text":"接受我們的質詢,首先要先恭喜你,但是我想你也非常清楚,過去你都是法家,你的法家在台南市法家,法家現在掌握整個國家,法家是你,我想你一定非常清楚了解這個地方的感受"},{"start":18.394,"end":33.718,"text":"所以過去無論是地方的財源來自促餐：包括委外的經營：包括地上權：包括事有重劃來去處理想辦法東起西挪想辦法去找錢但是我們都知道其實巧複為難為無米之炊所以過去無論是臺南市長的賴清德"},{"start":41.34,"end":41.38,"text":"李彥秀"},{"start":56.625,"end":82.791,"text":"賴清德也說對台南市非常不公平以台南是文化的首都單純以人口作為分配的依據其實他覺得是有調整的必要那我先就這個問題財化法現在已經25年沒有修了現在很多區域的立委各政黨對於財化法的處理都有想法也提案那我先請教主計長你對於財化法25年沒修你覺得該不該修"},{"start":85.028,"end":103.493,"text":"事實上財劃法的一個這個主導的單位是財政部那這個部分財劃法為什麼會這麼多年一直沒有修是因為他修也有他的一個困難因為本身第一個個限是他的條件不一樣財政的一個負擔"},{"start":104.153,"end":104.573,"text":"主席主席主席"},{"start":129.167,"end":156.242,"text":"你如果說我是台南市政府主計處處長我會希望修正因為我希望取得更多的財源越多越好但是我希望如果站在全國的立場我希望能夠調劑營需因為每個縣市他都不一樣他的條件都不相同財政的差距也不相同所以你必須要以中央他必須要有一個能一個額度給他來做調整的作用所以那你到底是支持不支持我聽到沒有你說幾句沒有"},{"start":157.383,"end":183.625,"text":"但是我就說現行的制度是不是有分配到公平因為我以現行來講所以才要討論嘛所以你到底支持不支持哪一個版本我們可以討論但是你覺得該不該處理但是以現在的現狀來講我透過一般的縣市的一個補助包括計劃型計劃的一個補助他都能夠調整各縣市的一個符合各縣市的需求主席長你也知道啦那就要看中央臉色啦齁"},{"start":184.145,"end":210.041,"text":"有的有,有的沒有啦所以我覺得制度化的處理或我們更明確的討論是有必要性所以你剛才浪費我的時間我覺得我剛提出來你感受最深大家看中央的臉色我這一筆給你那一筆不給你每一年的狀況不一樣對於地方財政每一年你有多少錢可以做多少事情你不確定性就增加了嘛這個你比我更清楚你不要換了一個位置換了腦袋我們來看一下過去賴清德怎麼講你看擔任"},{"start":212.983,"end":239.399,"text":"市長賴清德臺南市財政大感失利財務法沒有通過自有裁員比例是非常低的但是行政院長賴清德講說財政劃分法修正案行政院一定要正視這個問題兩次的行政院院長賴清德都支持財務法要處理所以這件事情我要提醒你們不要換了一個位置換了一個腦袋這是我今天我想你來這地方你更知道地方的痛苦"},{"start":240.299,"end":261.782,"text":"所以這件事情你應該大力疾呼你現在擔任國家的大掌櫃主計長這件事情要怎麼處理既然市長的賴清德支持行政院長賴清德支持你過去在主計長的時候在台南市的時候你也支持沒有道理你擔任國家大掌櫃你換了一個屁股換了一個腦袋我們怎麼樣對人民交代"},{"start":262.663,"end":283.041,"text":"至於什麼樣的方向我覺得可以大家再來討論不然處理是不能交代的好不好這個是我第一個問題那我不希望這件事情再一次跳票所以過去特別是我們也講說過去幾年中央財政都很好啊稅金剩餘都很多啊今年看起來我們的經濟成長又到6.53"},{"start":284.542,"end":285.223,"text":"李彥秀 主席"},{"start":303.462,"end":304.423,"text":"所以卓院長的態度怎麼樣?"},{"start":333.735,"end":333.975,"text":"主席"},{"start":344.625,"end":359.71,"text":"那你內部都沒有討論過我們再來要做業務報告可能要針對這個部分也做好那我期待下一次我還是會繼續追這個問題我來看看過去台南市的主計長現在國家大黨會中央的國際處長現在的我們主計長到底有沒有換了一個屁股換了一個腦袋也要想辦法要落實賴總統賴市長賴行政院長政策到底有沒有做調整"},{"start":371.533,"end":372.555,"text":"通膨與經濟成長率問題今年首季經濟成長率預估達到6.51明天舉辦國民所得評審會議"},{"start":387.856,"end":399.303,"text":"最近我看到我們今年其實首一季的經濟成長率是不錯的我們看看2023年的11月經濟成長率是3.35%通膨是1.642022月每三個月做一次經濟成長率3.43通膨1.85我有看到一個數字主計長我們明年要公佈的這個數字經濟成長率是3.57我們通膨是1.9是這樣嗎"},{"start":419.265,"end":427.511,"text":"這個部分像因為第一季我們的經濟成長是6.51所以本身我們本來是預估這個數字3.57跟1.9這個是我在媒體上看到數字是這樣嗎明天我們要開會的國民所得評審會議上是這樣嗎"},{"start":435.418,"end":435.458,"text":"李彥秀"},{"start":455.058,"end":455.518,"text":"其他數字換算加了其他的因素算出來還是3.57"},{"start":476.55,"end":494.009,"text":"就是以1到4月實際發生的狀況去推算的結果其他條件後面的就是原預估的不變這樣的話才有3.57那也是以明天的這個數字會出來那加上其他的因素才會是3.57跟1.9"},{"start":496.155,"end":496.875,"text":"所以結論還是換算出來最後的結果還是3.57跟1.9"},{"start":519.221,"end":542.346,"text":"1.9的部分事實上通貨膨脹的部分我們本來是預估1.85但是我如果把那個間接和直接的因素考慮進去的話按照道理電價的影響他是4月開始5月就會感受到了5月就會感受到然後後面的影響就是大概是沒有一整年就是等於說主席長所以這樣叫大概2.03"},{"start":544.446,"end":544.686,"text":"那我就要請問主計長"},{"start":561.403,"end":575.53,"text":"我們今年看起來經濟成長率是不錯但事實上有沒有那麼樂觀因為我們的出口的存貨率事實上都已經高於我們過去的平均值過去平均值65%我們現在87.2%所以經濟有沒有那麼樂觀我覺得還是未知數要參考要去思考那剛才我聽到其他委員有請教您就是說我們"},{"start":586.315,"end":611.148,"text":"去年的收購員工實質薪資是負成長嘛 對不對你知道負成長多久了 幾年啊但是今年有正成長嘛 今年第一季第一季嘛 第一季是負的去年是負成長 今年第一季已經正成長了那整年度會不會正成長應該預估是OK的你預估是OK的 你看好今年是正成長"},{"start":612.754,"end":614.717,"text":"但是如果說我換算通膨現在第一季的通膨換算之後我是成長0.88"},{"start":624.293,"end":636.827,"text":"所以你比過去的朱哲銘、朱大掌櫃你對於今年民眾的經濟成長率還有包括通膨的狀況我覺得你還是蠻樂觀的啦你覺得實質人民的實質因為過去實質總薪資已經連續幾年負成長你知道嗎"},{"start":644.943,"end":646.104,"text":"總薪資只有去年是副成長,經常性的實質薪資只有3年,今年可以轉正就對了"},{"start":660.573,"end":687.759,"text":"因為今年其實今年的第一季的那個經常性薪資他是有增加但是他如果換算那個通膨的一個膨脹率的部分通膨的綠綠的話就會變成是減少0.09但還是正的嗎但是總薪資是增加0.88但我問的是受僱人員經常性的實質薪資今年會轉正你覺得會轉正因為朱哲銘之前回答我是一半一半"},{"start":689.08,"end":716.562,"text":"你預估是會轉正就對了總薪資是整個進口我知道總薪資我知道我問的是受僱人員的經常性的實施薪資經常性薪資我不敢講因為經常性薪資大概就是這個水準但是這個水準轉換通貨膨脹率的部分所以你不確定多少的比例多少50 50你還是50 50還是沒有機會你沒有回答我問題你看稍微已經站起來到底你的看法是什麼"},{"start":717.503,"end":717.743,"text":"黃珊珊委員質詢"}]}}}}