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11:29:00","影片長度":"00:09:45","會議時間":"2024-05-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿率所屬單位主管列席業務報告，並備質詢。）","date":"2024-05-29","duration":585,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-14"},"end_time":"2024-05-29T11:29:00+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-29T11:19:15+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":660,"blocks":[["黃委員珊珊：（11時19分）謝謝主席，我請主計長。"],["主席：有請主計長。"],["陳主計長淑姿：委員好。"],["黃委員珊珊：主計長，我想你從地方政府來，我也從地方政府來。"],["陳主計長淑姿：是。"],["黃委員珊珊：所以大家都知道，而且應該是所有的政府部門，尤其地方政府都很清楚，中央跟地方財政收支劃分一直是個很大的問題，尤其是88年修法到現在，其實25年沒有再修過，25年我很認真地去找出資料，主計長，你在2008年在臺南市主計處長的任內，念成大研究所時的碩士論文，您在寫碩士論文的時候，您還記得您說過什麼嗎？"],["陳主計長淑姿：我那時候是有主張說要修正財劃法啦！"],["黃委員珊珊：你在民國88年以後的民國97年的碩士論文說，因為配合精省將營業稅從地方稅劃入國稅，造成嚴重的縣市財政收支失衡，最重要的是中央集權又集錢，地方有責卻無權也無錢，你認為目前不足以解決地方政府所面臨的問題，有修法的必要，所以財劃法應該要儘速修法。","主計長，97年到現在又過了十多年，還沒有修法，你也從地方來，中央統籌分配稅款還有這幾年包括所謂的一般性補助款都是……，當然中央會說我都有補，但是沒有一個基本的標準，所以法制化跟明文化跟原則公式化重不重要？而不是看中央的高興，您今天來當中央的主計長，將來你會說，我覺得你很乖，我再給你錢，我覺得你不乖，我就不給你錢嗎？主計長，你以前說過的話，你現在的想法是什麼？"],["陳主計長淑姿：因為當初我們臺南市的財政狀況是真的很不好，它的財政收支差距很大……"],["黃委員珊珊：現在有很多的縣市也很不好。"],["陳主計長淑姿：是，所以等於各縣市的財政狀況大概都是不平均……"],["黃委員珊珊：主計長，我跟前面委員的意見都一樣，不要換了位置就換了腦袋。"],["陳主計長淑姿：是，但是以我現在……"],["黃委員珊珊：您瞭解地方的財政困難，你也瞭解這個法律已經25年沒有修訂，你也瞭解現在中央的分配方式其實沒有一定的規範，所以我只要求一個，接下去財政委員會要開始審財政收支劃分法，我希望主計總處可以答應我做一件事，就是至少用111年的決算，把那一年度相關的預算跟統籌分配稅款，按照現在財委會有16個版本，這16個版本每個都有不同的公式，你用一個年度的預算來計算整個model，然後提出各個不同版本可能影響到的地方財政分配，還有中央預算的執行，就這個部分做出一個不同比對的模組，提供給財委會接下來要審議的委員們，大家可以看到按照A版本應該會怎麼分、B版本會怎麼分、會影響什麼，這個在我們財委會初審的過程中，由主計總處先把預算針對現有的版本做出一個基本的模組出來，主計總處可不可以先做到這件事？"],["陳主計長淑姿：報告委員，因為這個部分是財政部主導，整個統籌分配稅的部分是財政……"],["黃委員珊珊：統籌分配稅是它主導，錢是你在分嘛！所以模組是以預算的執行跟決算的數字，由你來做計算，按照這個版本，你會算出什麼樣的方式，你要找財政部去研擬，我也沒有意見，但是我認為這是主計總處你們現有的數字就可以推算出來的。"],["陳主計長淑姿：因為一般我們是一般性的補助，統籌分配稅款是財政部，分配縣市的這個部分是不是請委員……"],["黃委員珊珊：我也會找財政部，但是我的意思是，就你所業管的部分，你也做出模組……"],["陳主計長淑姿：我們可以共同來協助。"],["黃委員珊珊：假如這個版本有影響到地方分配的部分，跟主計總處有關的，你也做出這個模組來。"],["陳主計長淑姿：是，所以我們是希望我們跟財政部來配合。"],["黃委員珊珊：因為如果財委會的委員要審查接下來的財政收支劃分法，必須要很清楚地知道我們接下去修訂的公式會對地方稅制造成什麼樣的影響，這個可能需要主計總處跟財政部的配合，主計長可以吧？"],["陳主計長淑姿：我們儘量跟財政部來配合、來協助。"],["黃委員珊珊：我希望在我們開始審議這個法案之前，這個模組要做出來，拜託主計長。","同樣的問題，這個修法迫在眉睫，到現在為止，賴總統在2012年擔任臺南市長的時候說要修訂，2017年他當行政院長的時候也說要修訂，我想知道，因為蔡英文總統是目前為止唯一一個沒有提過財劃法修正版本的總統，接下去的賴總統，他請你來當主計長，立法院也有財劃法的版本了，我想問一下，賴總統有沒有自己的版本？你來當主計長，有沒有人跟你說過你要做自己的版本？"],["陳主計長淑姿：沒有，因為財劃不是我們……"],["黃委員珊珊：什麼時候會告訴我們，你們會不會有自己的版本？或至少配合立法院的版本，行政院要有相關的立場。"],["陳主計長淑姿：這要由財政部來做決定，這不是我能決定的。"],["黃委員珊珊：所以我一樣希望，不要換了位置換了腦袋，地方政府的困難，我想你比誰都清楚。第二個，這個部分應該怎麼樣讓它法制化、明文化跟透明化，讓地方政府不再仰中央的鼻息，而可以有自有財源，而且可以維持財務的穩健，好嗎？主計長，這是我對你的期許，我也希望你把地方政府的經驗帶到中央來，讓各個地方政府能夠更加的財政健全。","第二個部分很特別，我想問一下，主計總處其實一直在推所謂的經費結算系統電子化最後一哩路，我想知道現在主計總處，尤其是您在當主計長，接下去我們所謂電子化核銷作業有沒有什麼進展，有沒有什麼計畫？時間暫停。"],["陳主計長淑姿：這我請同仁來補充一些資料。"],["黃委員珊珊：好。主計總處對電子核銷有沒有什麼想法、有沒有什麼計畫、有沒有什麼政策？"],["潘主計官兼主任清鴻：報告委員，目前我們主計總處有發展一套共用性結報系統，另外我們也協助各單位自建系統，還有引用我們主計總處的系統……"],["黃委員珊珊：好啦！主計長，我的意思是說，我們在臺北市的時候其實有推動所謂的政府電子化核銷作業，目前為止，至少在我離任之前，臺北市109年電子化核銷的件數是10萬件，節省掉了九千一百多個工作日，省掉了222萬張A4紙。也就是我們現在的公務系統還是很多要黏貼、要做很多，財政部不斷地在推動電子化、電子發票，但是這些事情跟我們的政府好像沒什麼關係，所以剛剛講你們有建立一個公有的系統，但是我要告訴你，沒有人用、很少用，而且最重要的是，這些可能會造成大家的困擾，所以公務員不習慣變化。財政部不斷地推廣電子核銷、電子發票，但是政府部門沒有往前走，我們當然不希望影響到一般的中小店家，但是電子化是政府應該走的路。主計長，這個部分是不是也要有一些未來的計畫？我希望你一個月給我一個初步的想法，如果臺北市政府目前電子核銷達到99%，我不相信地方政府做不到，我也不相信中央政府做不到，可以嗎？"],["陳主計長淑姿：目前112年有448個中央機關使用經費結報系統，我們CBA也有去介接臺北市政府相關的系統，所以我們會努力來推動這個部分。"],["黃委員珊珊：顯然還是太過於只是鼓勵性質，太過於鬆散。第二個，效益不高。第三個，我們政府的國策好像沒有跟上來，尤其是如果財政部拚命在推，政府部門應該優先來做。"],["陳主計長淑姿：是。"],["黃委員珊珊：我希望一個月之內，針對電子化的部分，請主計長給我一個初步的計畫跟未來的規劃，至少有個方向。"],["陳主計長淑姿：好。"],["黃委員珊珊：你可以不用一開始強力推，但是你總要開始做。"],["陳主計長淑姿：是，其實已經有開始在做了。"],["黃委員珊珊：但是顯然效果不好，比例上面相對少。第二個，公務人員花的時間太多，尤其是在黏貼那些單據的過程，其實都是人力的浪費，謝謝主計長。"],["陳主計長淑姿：是。"],["主席：謝謝黃珊珊委員的質詢。接著我們請李坤城委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":108,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-14","speakers":["郭國文","林德福","吳秉叡","顏寬恒","賴惠員","賴士葆","王鴻薇","王世堅","李彥秀","黃珊珊","李坤城","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳玉珍","羅明才","鄭天財Sra 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{\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 213.948, \"end\": 213.968, \"score\": 0.815}]}, {\"start\": 215.659, \"end\": 241.541, \"text\": \"報告委員因為財政：這個部分是財政部主導那整個統籌分配稅的部分是財政：統籌分配稅是他主導錢是你在分嘛所以你們的模組是你預算執行跟決算的數字由你來做計算按照這個版本你會算出什麼樣的方式你要找財政部去研擬我也沒有意見但是我認為這是主計處你們現有的數字就可以推算出來的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 215.659, \"end\": 215.8, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 215.8, \"end\": 216.26, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 216.26, \"end\": 216.981, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"財\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 216.981, \"end\": 217.581, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"：\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 217.581, \"end\": 217.721, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 217.721, \"end\": 217.841, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 217.841, \"end\": 218.162, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"財\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 218.162, \"end\": 218.342, 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00:00:44,009\n2 5 年 了 2 5 年 我 很 認 真 地 去 找 出 主 計 長 你 在 2 0 0 8 年 在 台 南 市 主 計 處 長 的 任 內 念 成 大 的 研 究 所 的 碩 士 論 文 您 在 碩 士 論 文 的 時 候 您 還 記 得 您 說 過 什 麼 嗎\n\n3\n00:00:46,349 --> 00:01:03,930\n我 那 時 候 是 有 主 張 說 要 修 正 才 華 法 啦 你 那 時 候 在 民 國 8 8 年 以 後 的 9 7 年 的 你 的 碩 士 論 文 說 因 為 配 合 精 神 將 一 頁 稅 從 地 方 稅 劃 入 國 稅 認 為 造 成 嚴 重 的 縣 市 財 政 收 支 失 衡\n\n4\n00:01:04,551 --> 00:01:21,645\n最 重 要 是 中 央 集 權 又 集 錢 地 方 有 責 卻 無 權 也 無 錢 所 以 你 認 為 目 前 不 足 以 解 決 地 方 政 府 所 面 臨 的 問 題 還 有 修 法 的 必 要 所 以 才 化 法 應 該 要 儘 速 修 法 主 計 長 9 7 年 到 現 在 又 過 了 1 0 多 年\n\n5\n00:01:22,639 --> 00:01:24,340\n中 央 統 籌 分 配 稅 款 ： 一 般 性 補 助 款 ：\n\n6\n00:01:45,691 --> 00:01:46,051\n主 席 主 席\n\n7\n00:02:01,004 --> 00:02:02,725\n不 要 換 了 位 置 就 換 了 腦 袋\n\n8\n00:02:22,253 --> 00:02:35,385\n你 了 解 地 方 的 財 政 困 難 你 也 了 解 中 央 這 個 法 律 已 經 2 5 年 沒 有 修 訂 你 也 了 解 現 在 中 央 的 分 配 方 式 其 實 是 沒 有 一 定 的 規 範 所 以 我 只 要 求 一 個\n\n9\n00:02:36,448 --> 00:02:51,981\n接 下 去 財 政 委 員 會 要 開 始 審 財 政 收 支 劃 分 法 我 希 望 主 計 處 你 可 以 答 應 我 做 一 件 事 就 是 用 至 少 用 1 1 1 年 的 決 算 把 那 一 年 度 的 相 關 的 預 算 跟 統 籌 分 配 稅 款 按 照 現 在 財 委 會 有 1 6 個 版 本\n\n10\n00:02:55,024 --> 00:03:21,924\n這 1 6 個 版 本 每 個 都 有 不 同 的 公 式 你 用 一 個 年 度 的 預 算 來 計 算 整 個 m o d e l 然 後 提 出 各 個 部 分 版 本 可 能 影 響 到 的 地 方 財 政 的 分 配 還 有 中 央 的 預 算 的 執 行 就 這 個 部 分 做 出 一 個 不 同 比 對 的 相 關 的 模 組 出 來 提 供 給 財 委 會 接 下 來 要 審 議 的 委 員 們 大 家 可 以 看 到 說 按 照 A 版 本 應 該 會 怎 麼 分 B 版 本 會 怎 麼 分 會 影 響 什 麼 這 個 在 我 們 的 財 委 會\n\n11\n00:03:24,286 --> 00:03:33,968\n出 審 的 過 程 中 由 主 計 處 先 把 預 算 針 對 現 有 的 版 本 先 做 出 一 個 基 本 的 模 組 出 來 主 計 處 可 不 可 以 先 做 到 這 件 事\n\n12\n00:03:35,659 --> 00:04:01,541\n報 告 委 員 因 為 財 政 ： 這 個 部 分 是 財 政 部 主 導 那 整 個 統 籌 分 配 稅 的 部 分 是 財 政 ： 統 籌 分 配 稅 是 他 主 導 錢 是 你 在 分 嘛 所 以 你 們 的 模 組 是 你 預 算 執 行 跟 決 算 的 數 字 由 你 來 做 計 算 按 照 這 個 版 本 你 會 算 出 什 麼 樣 的 方 式 你 要 找 財 政 部 去 研 擬 我 也 沒 有 意 見 但 是 我 認 為 這 是 主 計 處 你 們 現 有 的 數 字 就 可 以 推 算 出 來 的\n\n13\n00:04:02,442 --> 00:04:19,451\n一 般 我 們 是 一 般 性 的 補 助 那 如 果 統 籌 分 配 稅 款 是 財 政 部 那 是 不 是 請 委 員 就 是 說 這 個 部 分 就 是 分 配 縣 市 的 這 個 部 分 是 不 是 我 也 會 找 財 政 部 但 是 我 的 意 思 說 您 的 部 分 就 你 所 業 管 的 部 分 你 也 做 出 模 組 假 如\n\n14\n00:04:21,272 --> 00:04:44,546\n這 個 版 本 有 影 響 到 地 方 分 配 的 部 分 跟 主 計 處 有 關 的 你 也 做 出 這 個 模 組 來 所 以 我 們 是 希 望 說 我 們 跟 財 政 部 來 配 合 因 為 如 果 財 委 會 的 委 員 要 審 查 接 下 來 的 財 政 收 支 劃 分 法 必 須 要 很 清 楚 的 知 道 我 們 接 下 去 的 修 訂 的 公 式 會 對 地 方 稅 制 有 什 麼 樣 的 影 響 這 個 可 能 需 要 主 計 處 跟 財 政 部 的 配 合\n\n15\n00:04:45,166 --> 00:04:45,747\n同 樣 的 問 題 這 個 修 法 迫 在 眉 睫\n\n16\n00:05:01,007 --> 00:05:25,997\n賴 總 統 在 2 0 1 2 年 他 在 台 南 市 長 的 時 候 說 要 修 訂 2 0 1 7 年 他 當 行 政 院 長 的 時 候 也 說 要 修 訂 我 想 知 道 因 為 蔡 英 文 總 統 是 目 前 為 止 唯 一 一 個 沒 有 提 過 財 化 法 修 正 的 版 本 的 總 統 接 下 去 的 賴 總 統 他 請 你 來 當 主 計 長 財 化 法 立 法 院 也 有 版 本 了 我 想 問 一 下 賴 總 統 有 沒 有 自 己 的 版 本\n\n17\n00:05:27,762 --> 00:05:39,827\n你 來 當 主 計 長 有 沒 有 人 跟 你 說 過 你 要 做 自 己 的 版 本 沒 有 沒 有 什 麼 時 候 會 告 訴 我 們 你 們 會 不 會 有 自 己 的 版 本 或 至 少 配 合 立 法 院 的 版 本 行 政 院 也 有 相 關 的 立 場\n\n18\n00:05:40,937 --> 00:06:09,513\n這 要 由 財 政 部 來 做 決 定 這 不 是 我 能 決 定 的 所 以 我 希 望 一 樣 不 要 換 了 位 置 換 了 腦 袋 地 方 政 府 的 困 難 我 想 你 比 誰 都 清 楚 第 二 個 這 個 部 分 應 該 怎 麼 樣 讓 它 法 制 化 明 文 化 跟 透 明 化 讓 地 方 政 府 不 再 養 中 央 的 鼻 息 而 它 可 以 有 自 由 裁 員 而 且 它 可 以 維 持 財 務 的 穩 健 好 嗎 主 計 長 這 是 我 對 你 的 期 許 我 也 希 望 你 把 地 方 政 府 的 經 驗 帶 到 中 央 來 而 是 讓\n\n19\n00:06:10,373 --> 00:06:34,047\n各 個 地 方 政 府 能 夠 更 加 的 財 政 健 全 第 二 個 部 分 很 特 別 我 想 問 一 下 主 計 處 其 實 一 直 在 推 所 謂 的 經 費 結 算 系 統 電 子 化 最 後 一 里 路 我 想 知 道 現 在 主 計 處 尤 其 是 您 在 當 主 計 長 接 下 去 我 們 所 謂 的 電 子 化 核 銷 的 作 業 有 沒 有 什 麼 進 展 有 沒 有 什 麼 計 畫 時 間 暫 停\n\n20\n00:06:41,093 --> 00:06:56,675\n這 我 請 同 仁 來 補 充 資 料 那 現 在 呢 要 不 要 來 講 一 下 是 主 席 處 對 電 子 核 銷 有 沒 有 什 麼 想 法 有 沒 有 什 麼 計 畫 有 沒 有 什 麼 政 策\n\n21\n00:06:58,509 --> 00:07:17,489\n報 告 委 員 目 前 我 們 主 計 總 處 有 發 展 一 套 公 用 性 捷 報 系 統 另 外 我 們 也 那 個 協 助 各 單 位 來 制 建 系 統 還 有 那 個 引 用 我 們 主 計 處 的 系 統 主 計 長 我 的 意 思 是 說 在 我 們 在 臺 北 市 的 時 候 其 實 有 推 動 所 謂 的\n\n22\n00:07:18,590 --> 00:07:43,729\n政 府 電 子 化 核 銷 作 業 然 後 臺 北 市 目 前 為 止 至 少 在 我 們 離 任 之 前 1 0 9 年 他 節 省 電 子 化 核 銷 的 件 數 是 1 0 萬 件 節 省 掉 了 9 1 0 0 多 個 工 作 日 省 掉 了 2 2 2 萬 張 H 4 紙 也 就 是 我 們 現 在 的 公 務 系 統 還 是 很 多 要 黏 貼 要 做 很 多 那 財 政 部 不 斷 的 在 推 動 電 子 化 電 子 發 票\n\n23\n00:07:44,189 --> 00:07:44,409\n李 慧 琼 議 員\n\n24\n00:08:03,334 --> 00:08:32,577\n財 政 部 不 斷 的 推 廣 電 子 核 銷 電 子 發 票 但 是 政 府 部 門 沒 有 往 前 走 我 們 當 然 不 希 望 影 響 到 一 般 的 中 小 店 家 但 是 電 子 化 是 政 府 應 該 走 的 路 主 計 長 這 個 部 分 是 不 是 也 要 有 一 些 未 來 的 計 畫 我 希 望 你 不 要 多 一 個 月 給 我 一 個 你 初 步 的 想 法 如 果 地 方 政 府 臺 北 市 政 府 目 前 電 子 核 銷 到 達 到 9 9 % 我 不 相 信 地 方 政 府 做 不 到 我 也 不 相 信 中 央 政 府 做 不 到\n\n25\n00:08:34,429 --> 00:08:49,435\n我 們 現 在 目 前 1 1 2 年 有 4 4 8 個 中 央 機 關 來 使 用 經 費 解 報 系 統 那 我 們 C B A 也 有 去 借 台 北 市 政 府 相 關 的 一 個 系 統 那 所 以 我 們 會 努 力 來 推 動 這 一 個 顯 然 還 是 太 過 於\n\n26\n00:08:50,675 --> 00:09:17,379\n只 是 鼓 勵 性 質 太 過 於 鬆 散 第 二 個 效 益 不 高 第 三 個 跟 我 們 政 府 的 國 策 好 像 沒 有 跟 上 來 尤 其 是 如 果 財 政 部 拼 命 在 推 但 是 政 府 部 門 應 該 優 先 來 做 我 希 望 一 個 月 之 內 針 對 電 子 化 的 部 分 請 主 計 長 給 我 一 個 初 步 的 計 畫 跟 未 來 的 規 劃 至 少 有 個 方 向 你 可 以 不 用 一 開 始 強 力 推 但 是 你 總 要 開 始 做\n\n27\n00:09:17,899 --> 00:09:18,600\n李 坤 誠 委 員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5171\t27042\t委員好是主席長我想您從地方政府來我也從地方政府來所以大家都知道而且應該是所有的政府部門尤其地方政府都很清楚中央跟地方財政收支劃分一直是個很大的問題尤其是88年修法到現在其實沒有再修過\n28222\t44009\t25年了25年我很認真地去找出主計長你在2008年在台南市主計處長的任內念成大的研究所的碩士論文您在碩士論文的時候您還記得您說過什麼嗎\n46349\t63930\t我那時候是有主張說要修正才華法啦你那時候在民國88年以後的97年的你的碩士論文說因為配合精神將一頁稅從地方稅劃入國稅認為造成嚴重的縣市財政收支失衡\n64551\t81645\t最重要是中央集權又集錢地方有責卻無權也無錢所以你認為目前不足以解決地方政府所面臨的問題還有修法的必要所以才化法應該要儘速修法主計長97年到現在又過了10多年\n82639\t84340\t中央統籌分配稅款：一般性補助款：\n105691\t106051\t主席主席\n121004\t122725\t不要換了位置就換了腦袋\n142253\t155385\t你了解地方的財政困難你也了解中央這個法律已經25年沒有修訂你也了解現在中央的分配方式其實是沒有一定的規範所以我只要求一個\n156448\t171981\t接下去財政委員會要開始審財政收支劃分法我希望主計處你可以答應我做一件事就是用至少用111年的決算把那一年度的相關的預算跟統籌分配稅款按照現在財委會有16個版本\n175024\t201924\t這16個版本每個都有不同的公式你用一個年度的預算來計算整個model然後提出各個部分版本可能影響到的地方財政的分配還有中央的預算的執行就這個部分做出一個不同比對的相關的模組出來提供給財委會接下來要審議的委員們大家可以看到說按照A版本應該會怎麼分B版本會怎麼分會影響什麼這個在我們的財委會\n204286\t213968\t出審的過程中由主計處先把預算針對現有的版本先做出一個基本的模組出來主計處可不可以先做到這件事\n215659\t241541\t報告委員因為財政：這個部分是財政部主導那整個統籌分配稅的部分是財政：統籌分配稅是他主導錢是你在分嘛所以你們的模組是你預算執行跟決算的數字由你來做計算按照這個版本你會算出什麼樣的方式你要找財政部去研擬我也沒有意見但是我認為這是主計處你們現有的數字就可以推算出來的\n242442\t259451\t一般我們是一般性的補助那如果統籌分配稅款是財政部那是不是請委員就是說這個部分就是分配縣市的這個部分是不是我也會找財政部但是我的意思說您的部分就你所業管的部分你也做出模組假如\n261272\t284546\t這個版本有影響到地方分配的部分跟主計處有關的你也做出這個模組來所以我們是希望說我們跟財政部來配合因為如果財委會的委員要審查接下來的財政收支劃分法必須要很清楚的知道我們接下去的修訂的公式會對地方稅制有什麼樣的影響這個可能需要主計處跟財政部的配合\n285166\t285747\t同樣的問題這個修法迫在眉睫\n301007\t325997\t賴總統在2012年他在台南市長的時候說要修訂2017年他當行政院長的時候也說要修訂我想知道因為蔡英文總統是目前為止唯一一個沒有提過財化法修正的版本的總統接下去的賴總統他請你來當主計長財化法立法院也有版本了我想問一下賴總統有沒有自己的版本\n327762\t339827\t你來當主計長有沒有人跟你說過你要做自己的版本沒有沒有什麼時候會告訴我們你們會不會有自己的版本或至少配合立法院的版本行政院也有相關的立場\n340937\t369513\t這要由財政部來做決定這不是我能決定的所以我希望一樣不要換了位置換了腦袋地方政府的困難我想你比誰都清楚第二個這個部分應該怎麼樣讓它法制化明文化跟透明化讓地方政府不再養中央的鼻息而它可以有自由裁員而且它可以維持財務的穩健好嗎主計長這是我對你的期許我也希望你把地方政府的經驗帶到中央來而是讓\n370373\t394047\t各個地方政府能夠更加的財政健全第二個部分很特別我想問一下主計處其實一直在推所謂的經費結算系統電子化最後一里路我想知道現在主計處尤其是您在當主計長接下去我們所謂的電子化核銷的作業有沒有什麼進展有沒有什麼計畫時間暫停\n401093\t416675\t這我請同仁來補充資料那現在呢要不要來講一下是主席處對電子核銷有沒有什麼想法有沒有什麼計畫有沒有什麼政策\n418509\t437489\t報告委員目前我們主計總處有發展一套公用性捷報系統另外我們也那個協助各單位來制建系統還有那個引用我們主計處的系統主計長我的意思是說在我們在臺北市的時候其實有推動所謂的\n438590\t463729\t政府電子化核銷作業然後臺北市目前為止至少在我們離任之前109年他節省電子化核銷的件數是10萬件節省掉了9100多個工作日省掉了222萬張H4紙也就是我們現在的公務系統還是很多要黏貼要做很多那財政部不斷的在推動電子化電子發票\n464189\t464409\t李慧琼議員\n483334\t512577\t財政部不斷的推廣電子核銷電子發票但是政府部門沒有往前走我們當然不希望影響到一般的中小店家但是電子化是政府應該走的路主計長這個部分是不是也要有一些未來的計畫我希望你不要多一個月給我一個你初步的想法如果地方政府臺北市政府目前電子核銷到達到99%我不相信地方政府做不到我也不相信中央政府做不到\n514429\t529435\t我們現在目前112年有448個中央機關來使用經費解報系統那我們CBA也有去借台北市政府相關的一個系統那所以我們會努力來推動這一個顯然還是太過於\n530675\t557379\t只是鼓勵性質太過於鬆散第二個效益不高第三個跟我們政府的國策好像沒有跟上來尤其是如果財政部拼命在推但是政府部門應該優先來做我希望一個月之內針對電子化的部分請主計長給我一個初步的計畫跟未來的規劃至少有個方向你可以不用一開始強力推但是你總要開始做\n557899\t558600\t李坤誠委員\n","txt":"委員好是主席長我想您從地方政府來我也從地方政府來所以大家都知道而且應該是所有的政府部門尤其地方政府都很清楚中央跟地方財政收支劃分一直是個很大的問題尤其是88年修法到現在其實沒有再修過\n25年了25年我很認真地去找出主計長你在2008年在台南市主計處長的任內念成大的研究所的碩士論文您在碩士論文的時候您還記得您說過什麼嗎\n我那時候是有主張說要修正才華法啦你那時候在民國88年以後的97年的你的碩士論文說因為配合精神將一頁稅從地方稅劃入國稅認為造成嚴重的縣市財政收支失衡\n最重要是中央集權又集錢地方有責卻無權也無錢所以你認為目前不足以解決地方政府所面臨的問題還有修法的必要所以才化法應該要儘速修法主計長97年到現在又過了10多年\n中央統籌分配稅款：一般性補助款：\n主席主席\n不要換了位置就換了腦袋\n你了解地方的財政困難你也了解中央這個法律已經25年沒有修訂你也了解現在中央的分配方式其實是沒有一定的規範所以我只要求一個\n接下去財政委員會要開始審財政收支劃分法我希望主計處你可以答應我做一件事就是用至少用111年的決算把那一年度的相關的預算跟統籌分配稅款按照現在財委會有16個版本\n這16個版本每個都有不同的公式你用一個年度的預算來計算整個model然後提出各個部分版本可能影響到的地方財政的分配還有中央的預算的執行就這個部分做出一個不同比對的相關的模組出來提供給財委會接下來要審議的委員們大家可以看到說按照A版本應該會怎麼分B版本會怎麼分會影響什麼這個在我們的財委會\n出審的過程中由主計處先把預算針對現有的版本先做出一個基本的模組出來主計處可不可以先做到這件事\n報告委員因為財政：這個部分是財政部主導那整個統籌分配稅的部分是財政：統籌分配稅是他主導錢是你在分嘛所以你們的模組是你預算執行跟決算的數字由你來做計算按照這個版本你會算出什麼樣的方式你要找財政部去研擬我也沒有意見但是我認為這是主計處你們現有的數字就可以推算出來的\n一般我們是一般性的補助那如果統籌分配稅款是財政部那是不是請委員就是說這個部分就是分配縣市的這個部分是不是我也會找財政部但是我的意思說您的部分就你所業管的部分你也做出模組假如\n這個版本有影響到地方分配的部分跟主計處有關的你也做出這個模組來所以我們是希望說我們跟財政部來配合因為如果財委會的委員要審查接下來的財政收支劃分法必須要很清楚的知道我們接下去的修訂的公式會對地方稅制有什麼樣的影響這個可能需要主計處跟財政部的配合\n同樣的問題這個修法迫在眉睫\n賴總統在2012年他在台南市長的時候說要修訂2017年他當行政院長的時候也說要修訂我想知道因為蔡英文總統是目前為止唯一一個沒有提過財化法修正的版本的總統接下去的賴總統他請你來當主計長財化法立法院也有版本了我想問一下賴總統有沒有自己的版本\n你來當主計長有沒有人跟你說過你要做自己的版本沒有沒有什麼時候會告訴我們你們會不會有自己的版本或至少配合立法院的版本行政院也有相關的立場\n這要由財政部來做決定這不是我能決定的所以我希望一樣不要換了位置換了腦袋地方政府的困難我想你比誰都清楚第二個這個部分應該怎麼樣讓它法制化明文化跟透明化讓地方政府不再養中央的鼻息而它可以有自由裁員而且它可以維持財務的穩健好嗎主計長這是我對你的期許我也希望你把地方政府的經驗帶到中央來而是讓\n各個地方政府能夠更加的財政健全第二個部分很特別我想問一下主計處其實一直在推所謂的經費結算系統電子化最後一里路我想知道現在主計處尤其是您在當主計長接下去我們所謂的電子化核銷的作業有沒有什麼進展有沒有什麼計畫時間暫停\n這我請同仁來補充資料那現在呢要不要來講一下是主席處對電子核銷有沒有什麼想法有沒有什麼計畫有沒有什麼政策\n報告委員目前我們主計總處有發展一套公用性捷報系統另外我們也那個協助各單位來制建系統還有那個引用我們主計處的系統主計長我的意思是說在我們在臺北市的時候其實有推動所謂的\n政府電子化核銷作業然後臺北市目前為止至少在我們離任之前109年他節省電子化核銷的件數是10萬件節省掉了9100多個工作日省掉了222萬張H4紙也就是我們現在的公務系統還是很多要黏貼要做很多那財政部不斷的在推動電子化電子發票\n李慧琼議員\n財政部不斷的推廣電子核銷電子發票但是政府部門沒有往前走我們當然不希望影響到一般的中小店家但是電子化是政府應該走的路主計長這個部分是不是也要有一些未來的計畫我希望你不要多一個月給我一個你初步的想法如果地方政府臺北市政府目前電子核銷到達到99%我不相信地方政府做不到我也不相信中央政府做不到\n我們現在目前112年有448個中央機關來使用經費解報系統那我們CBA也有去借台北市政府相關的一個系統那所以我們會努力來推動這一個顯然還是太過於\n只是鼓勵性質太過於鬆散第二個效益不高第三個跟我們政府的國策好像沒有跟上來尤其是如果財政部拼命在推但是政府部門應該優先來做我希望一個月之內針對電子化的部分請主計長給我一個初步的計畫跟未來的規劃至少有個方向你可以不用一開始強力推但是你總要開始做\n李坤誠委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.171 --> 00:27.042\n委 員 好 是 主 席 長 我 想 您 從 地 方 政 府 來 我 也 從 地 方 政 府 來 所 以 大 家 都 知 道 而 且 應 該 是 所 有 的 政 府 部 門 尤 其 地 方 政 府 都 很 清 楚 中 央 跟 地 方 財 政 收 支 劃 分 一 直 是 個 很 大 的 問 題 尤 其 是 8 8 年 修 法 到 現 在 其 實 沒 有 再 修 過\n\n00:28.222 --> 00:44.009\n2 5 年 了 2 5 年 我 很 認 真 地 去 找 出 主 計 長 你 在 2 0 0 8 年 在 台 南 市 主 計 處 長 的 任 內 念 成 大 的 研 究 所 的 碩 士 論 文 您 在 碩 士 論 文 的 時 候 您 還 記 得 您 說 過 什 麼 嗎\n\n00:46.349 --> 01:03.930\n我 那 時 候 是 有 主 張 說 要 修 正 才 華 法 啦 你 那 時 候 在 民 國 8 8 年 以 後 的 9 7 年 的 你 的 碩 士 論 文 說 因 為 配 合 精 神 將 一 頁 稅 從 地 方 稅 劃 入 國 稅 認 為 造 成 嚴 重 的 縣 市 財 政 收 支 失 衡\n\n01:04.551 --> 01:21.645\n最 重 要 是 中 央 集 權 又 集 錢 地 方 有 責 卻 無 權 也 無 錢 所 以 你 認 為 目 前 不 足 以 解 決 地 方 政 府 所 面 臨 的 問 題 還 有 修 法 的 必 要 所 以 才 化 法 應 該 要 儘 速 修 法 主 計 長 9 7 年 到 現 在 又 過 了 1 0 多 年\n\n01:22.639 --> 01:24.340\n中 央 統 籌 分 配 稅 款 ： 一 般 性 補 助 款 ：\n\n01:45.691 --> 01:46.051\n主 席 主 席\n\n02:01.004 --> 02:02.725\n不 要 換 了 位 置 就 換 了 腦 袋\n\n02:22.253 --> 02:35.385\n你 了 解 地 方 的 財 政 困 難 你 也 了 解 中 央 這 個 法 律 已 經 2 5 年 沒 有 修 訂 你 也 了 解 現 在 中 央 的 分 配 方 式 其 實 是 沒 有 一 定 的 規 範 所 以 我 只 要 求 一 個\n\n02:36.448 --> 02:51.981\n接 下 去 財 政 委 員 會 要 開 始 審 財 政 收 支 劃 分 法 我 希 望 主 計 處 你 可 以 答 應 我 做 一 件 事 就 是 用 至 少 用 1 1 1 年 的 決 算 把 那 一 年 度 的 相 關 的 預 算 跟 統 籌 分 配 稅 款 按 照 現 在 財 委 會 有 1 6 個 版 本\n\n02:55.024 --> 03:21.924\n這 1 6 個 版 本 每 個 都 有 不 同 的 公 式 你 用 一 個 年 度 的 預 算 來 計 算 整 個 m o d e l 然 後 提 出 各 個 部 分 版 本 可 能 影 響 到 的 地 方 財 政 的 分 配 還 有 中 央 的 預 算 的 執 行 就 這 個 部 分 做 出 一 個 不 同 比 對 的 相 關 的 模 組 出 來 提 供 給 財 委 會 接 下 來 要 審 議 的 委 員 們 大 家 可 以 看 到 說 按 照 A 版 本 應 該 會 怎 麼 分 B 版 本 會 怎 麼 分 會 影 響 什 麼 這 個 在 我 們 的 財 委 會\n\n03:24.286 --> 03:33.968\n出 審 的 過 程 中 由 主 計 處 先 把 預 算 針 對 現 有 的 版 本 先 做 出 一 個 基 本 的 模 組 出 來 主 計 處 可 不 可 以 先 做 到 這 件 事\n\n03:35.659 --> 04:01.541\n報 告 委 員 因 為 財 政 ： 這 個 部 分 是 財 政 部 主 導 那 整 個 統 籌 分 配 稅 的 部 分 是 財 政 ： 統 籌 分 配 稅 是 他 主 導 錢 是 你 在 分 嘛 所 以 你 們 的 模 組 是 你 預 算 執 行 跟 決 算 的 數 字 由 你 來 做 計 算 按 照 這 個 版 本 你 會 算 出 什 麼 樣 的 方 式 你 要 找 財 政 部 去 研 擬 我 也 沒 有 意 見 但 是 我 認 為 這 是 主 計 處 你 們 現 有 的 數 字 就 可 以 推 算 出 來 的\n\n04:02.442 --> 04:19.451\n一 般 我 們 是 一 般 性 的 補 助 那 如 果 統 籌 分 配 稅 款 是 財 政 部 那 是 不 是 請 委 員 就 是 說 這 個 部 分 就 是 分 配 縣 市 的 這 個 部 分 是 不 是 我 也 會 找 財 政 部 但 是 我 的 意 思 說 您 的 部 分 就 你 所 業 管 的 部 分 你 也 做 出 模 組 假 如\n\n04:21.272 --> 04:44.546\n這 個 版 本 有 影 響 到 地 方 分 配 的 部 分 跟 主 計 處 有 關 的 你 也 做 出 這 個 模 組 來 所 以 我 們 是 希 望 說 我 們 跟 財 政 部 來 配 合 因 為 如 果 財 委 會 的 委 員 要 審 查 接 下 來 的 財 政 收 支 劃 分 法 必 須 要 很 清 楚 的 知 道 我 們 接 下 去 的 修 訂 的 公 式 會 對 地 方 稅 制 有 什 麼 樣 的 影 響 這 個 可 能 需 要 主 計 處 跟 財 政 部 的 配 合\n\n04:45.166 --> 04:45.747\n同 樣 的 問 題 這 個 修 法 迫 在 眉 睫\n\n05:01.007 --> 05:25.997\n賴 總 統 在 2 0 1 2 年 他 在 台 南 市 長 的 時 候 說 要 修 訂 2 0 1 7 年 他 當 行 政 院 長 的 時 候 也 說 要 修 訂 我 想 知 道 因 為 蔡 英 文 總 統 是 目 前 為 止 唯 一 一 個 沒 有 提 過 財 化 法 修 正 的 版 本 的 總 統 接 下 去 的 賴 總 統 他 請 你 來 當 主 計 長 財 化 法 立 法 院 也 有 版 本 了 我 想 問 一 下 賴 總 統 有 沒 有 自 己 的 版 本\n\n05:27.762 --> 05:39.827\n你 來 當 主 計 長 有 沒 有 人 跟 你 說 過 你 要 做 自 己 的 版 本 沒 有 沒 有 什 麼 時 候 會 告 訴 我 們 你 們 會 不 會 有 自 己 的 版 本 或 至 少 配 合 立 法 院 的 版 本 行 政 院 也 有 相 關 的 立 場\n\n05:40.937 --> 06:09.513\n這 要 由 財 政 部 來 做 決 定 這 不 是 我 能 決 定 的 所 以 我 希 望 一 樣 不 要 換 了 位 置 換 了 腦 袋 地 方 政 府 的 困 難 我 想 你 比 誰 都 清 楚 第 二 個 這 個 部 分 應 該 怎 麼 樣 讓 它 法 制 化 明 文 化 跟 透 明 化 讓 地 方 政 府 不 再 養 中 央 的 鼻 息 而 它 可 以 有 自 由 裁 員 而 且 它 可 以 維 持 財 務 的 穩 健 好 嗎 主 計 長 這 是 我 對 你 的 期 許 我 也 希 望 你 把 地 方 政 府 的 經 驗 帶 到 中 央 來 而 是 讓\n\n06:10.373 --> 06:34.047\n各 個 地 方 政 府 能 夠 更 加 的 財 政 健 全 第 二 個 部 分 很 特 別 我 想 問 一 下 主 計 處 其 實 一 直 在 推 所 謂 的 經 費 結 算 系 統 電 子 化 最 後 一 里 路 我 想 知 道 現 在 主 計 處 尤 其 是 您 在 當 主 計 長 接 下 去 我 們 所 謂 的 電 子 化 核 銷 的 作 業 有 沒 有 什 麼 進 展 有 沒 有 什 麼 計 畫 時 間 暫 停\n\n06:41.093 --> 06:56.675\n這 我 請 同 仁 來 補 充 資 料 那 現 在 呢 要 不 要 來 講 一 下 是 主 席 處 對 電 子 核 銷 有 沒 有 什 麼 想 法 有 沒 有 什 麼 計 畫 有 沒 有 什 麼 政 策\n\n06:58.509 --> 07:17.489\n報 告 委 員 目 前 我 們 主 計 總 處 有 發 展 一 套 公 用 性 捷 報 系 統 另 外 我 們 也 那 個 協 助 各 單 位 來 制 建 系 統 還 有 那 個 引 用 我 們 主 計 處 的 系 統 主 計 長 我 的 意 思 是 說 在 我 們 在 臺 北 市 的 時 候 其 實 有 推 動 所 謂 的\n\n07:18.590 --> 07:43.729\n政 府 電 子 化 核 銷 作 業 然 後 臺 北 市 目 前 為 止 至 少 在 我 們 離 任 之 前 1 0 9 年 他 節 省 電 子 化 核 銷 的 件 數 是 1 0 萬 件 節 省 掉 了 9 1 0 0 多 個 工 作 日 省 掉 了 2 2 2 萬 張 H 4 紙 也 就 是 我 們 現 在 的 公 務 系 統 還 是 很 多 要 黏 貼 要 做 很 多 那 財 政 部 不 斷 的 在 推 動 電 子 化 電 子 發 票\n\n07:44.189 --> 07:44.409\n李 慧 琼 議 員\n\n08:03.334 --> 08:32.577\n財 政 部 不 斷 的 推 廣 電 子 核 銷 電 子 發 票 但 是 政 府 部 門 沒 有 往 前 走 我 們 當 然 不 希 望 影 響 到 一 般 的 中 小 店 家 但 是 電 子 化 是 政 府 應 該 走 的 路 主 計 長 這 個 部 分 是 不 是 也 要 有 一 些 未 來 的 計 畫 我 希 望 你 不 要 多 一 個 月 給 我 一 個 你 初 步 的 想 法 如 果 地 方 政 府 臺 北 市 政 府 目 前 電 子 核 銷 到 達 到 9 9 % 我 不 相 信 地 方 政 府 做 不 到 我 也 不 相 信 中 央 政 府 做 不 到\n\n08:34.429 --> 08:49.435\n我 們 現 在 目 前 1 1 2 年 有 4 4 8 個 中 央 機 關 來 使 用 經 費 解 報 系 統 那 我 們 C B A 也 有 去 借 台 北 市 政 府 相 關 的 一 個 系 統 那 所 以 我 們 會 努 力 來 推 動 這 一 個 顯 然 還 是 太 過 於\n\n08:50.675 --> 09:17.379\n只 是 鼓 勵 性 質 太 過 於 鬆 散 第 二 個 效 益 不 高 第 三 個 跟 我 們 政 府 的 國 策 好 像 沒 有 跟 上 來 尤 其 是 如 果 財 政 部 拼 命 在 推 但 是 政 府 部 門 應 該 優 先 來 做 我 希 望 一 個 月 之 內 針 對 電 子 化 的 部 分 請 主 計 長 給 我 一 個 初 步 的 計 畫 跟 未 來 的 規 劃 至 少 有 個 方 向 你 可 以 不 用 一 開 始 強 力 推 但 是 你 總 要 開 始 做\n\n09:17.899 --> 09:18.600\n李 坤 誠 委 員\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.171,"end":27.042,"text":"委員好是主席長我想您從地方政府來我也從地方政府來所以大家都知道而且應該是所有的政府部門尤其地方政府都很清楚中央跟地方財政收支劃分一直是個很大的問題尤其是88年修法到現在其實沒有再修過"},{"start":28.222,"end":44.009,"text":"25年了25年我很認真地去找出主計長你在2008年在台南市主計處長的任內念成大的研究所的碩士論文您在碩士論文的時候您還記得您說過什麼嗎"},{"start":46.349,"end":63.93,"text":"我那時候是有主張說要修正才華法啦你那時候在民國88年以後的97年的你的碩士論文說因為配合精神將一頁稅從地方稅劃入國稅認為造成嚴重的縣市財政收支失衡"},{"start":64.551,"end":81.645,"text":"最重要是中央集權又集錢地方有責卻無權也無錢所以你認為目前不足以解決地方政府所面臨的問題還有修法的必要所以才化法應該要儘速修法主計長97年到現在又過了10多年"},{"start":82.639,"end":84.34,"text":"中央統籌分配稅款：一般性補助款："},{"start":105.691,"end":106.051,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":121.004,"end":122.725,"text":"不要換了位置就換了腦袋"},{"start":142.253,"end":155.385,"text":"你了解地方的財政困難你也了解中央這個法律已經25年沒有修訂你也了解現在中央的分配方式其實是沒有一定的規範所以我只要求一個"},{"start":156.448,"end":171.981,"text":"接下去財政委員會要開始審財政收支劃分法我希望主計處你可以答應我做一件事就是用至少用111年的決算把那一年度的相關的預算跟統籌分配稅款按照現在財委會有16個版本"},{"start":175.024,"end":201.924,"text":"這16個版本每個都有不同的公式你用一個年度的預算來計算整個model然後提出各個部分版本可能影響到的地方財政的分配還有中央的預算的執行就這個部分做出一個不同比對的相關的模組出來提供給財委會接下來要審議的委員們大家可以看到說按照A版本應該會怎麼分B版本會怎麼分會影響什麼這個在我們的財委會"},{"start":204.286,"end":213.968,"text":"出審的過程中由主計處先把預算針對現有的版本先做出一個基本的模組出來主計處可不可以先做到這件事"},{"start":215.659,"end":241.541,"text":"報告委員因為財政：這個部分是財政部主導那整個統籌分配稅的部分是財政：統籌分配稅是他主導錢是你在分嘛所以你們的模組是你預算執行跟決算的數字由你來做計算按照這個版本你會算出什麼樣的方式你要找財政部去研擬我也沒有意見但是我認為這是主計處你們現有的數字就可以推算出來的"},{"start":242.442,"end":259.451,"text":"一般我們是一般性的補助那如果統籌分配稅款是財政部那是不是請委員就是說這個部分就是分配縣市的這個部分是不是我也會找財政部但是我的意思說您的部分就你所業管的部分你也做出模組假如"},{"start":261.272,"end":284.546,"text":"這個版本有影響到地方分配的部分跟主計處有關的你也做出這個模組來所以我們是希望說我們跟財政部來配合因為如果財委會的委員要審查接下來的財政收支劃分法必須要很清楚的知道我們接下去的修訂的公式會對地方稅制有什麼樣的影響這個可能需要主計處跟財政部的配合"},{"start":285.166,"end":285.747,"text":"同樣的問題這個修法迫在眉睫"},{"start":301.007,"end":325.997,"text":"賴總統在2012年他在台南市長的時候說要修訂2017年他當行政院長的時候也說要修訂我想知道因為蔡英文總統是目前為止唯一一個沒有提過財化法修正的版本的總統接下去的賴總統他請你來當主計長財化法立法院也有版本了我想問一下賴總統有沒有自己的版本"},{"start":327.762,"end":339.827,"text":"你來當主計長有沒有人跟你說過你要做自己的版本沒有沒有什麼時候會告訴我們你們會不會有自己的版本或至少配合立法院的版本行政院也有相關的立場"},{"start":340.937,"end":369.513,"text":"這要由財政部來做決定這不是我能決定的所以我希望一樣不要換了位置換了腦袋地方政府的困難我想你比誰都清楚第二個這個部分應該怎麼樣讓它法制化明文化跟透明化讓地方政府不再養中央的鼻息而它可以有自由裁員而且它可以維持財務的穩健好嗎主計長這是我對你的期許我也希望你把地方政府的經驗帶到中央來而是讓"},{"start":370.373,"end":394.047,"text":"各個地方政府能夠更加的財政健全第二個部分很特別我想問一下主計處其實一直在推所謂的經費結算系統電子化最後一里路我想知道現在主計處尤其是您在當主計長接下去我們所謂的電子化核銷的作業有沒有什麼進展有沒有什麼計畫時間暫停"},{"start":401.093,"end":416.675,"text":"這我請同仁來補充資料那現在呢要不要來講一下是主席處對電子核銷有沒有什麼想法有沒有什麼計畫有沒有什麼政策"},{"start":418.509,"end":437.489,"text":"報告委員目前我們主計總處有發展一套公用性捷報系統另外我們也那個協助各單位來制建系統還有那個引用我們主計處的系統主計長我的意思是說在我們在臺北市的時候其實有推動所謂的"},{"start":438.59,"end":463.729,"text":"政府電子化核銷作業然後臺北市目前為止至少在我們離任之前109年他節省電子化核銷的件數是10萬件節省掉了9100多個工作日省掉了222萬張H4紙也就是我們現在的公務系統還是很多要黏貼要做很多那財政部不斷的在推動電子化電子發票"},{"start":464.189,"end":464.409,"text":"李慧琼議員"},{"start":483.334,"end":512.577,"text":"財政部不斷的推廣電子核銷電子發票但是政府部門沒有往前走我們當然不希望影響到一般的中小店家但是電子化是政府應該走的路主計長這個部分是不是也要有一些未來的計畫我希望你不要多一個月給我一個你初步的想法如果地方政府臺北市政府目前電子核銷到達到99%我不相信地方政府做不到我也不相信中央政府做不到"},{"start":514.429,"end":529.435,"text":"我們現在目前112年有448個中央機關來使用經費解報系統那我們CBA也有去借台北市政府相關的一個系統那所以我們會努力來推動這一個顯然還是太過於"},{"start":530.675,"end":557.379,"text":"只是鼓勵性質太過於鬆散第二個效益不高第三個跟我們政府的國策好像沒有跟上來尤其是如果財政部拼命在推但是政府部門應該優先來做我希望一個月之內針對電子化的部分請主計長給我一個初步的計畫跟未來的規劃至少有個方向你可以不用一開始強力推但是你總要開始做"},{"start":557.899,"end":558.6,"text":"李坤誠委員"}]}}}}