{"id":153276,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153276","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/2c978e04ca5e1331bb801da874971b555c2a8e696f21355cc09f7998a2d5a4c1aaab6b1aed7c96905ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李坤城","委員發言時間":"11:29:07 - 11:40:28","影片長度":"00:11:21","會議時間":"2024-05-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿率所屬單位主管列席業務報告，並備質詢。）","date":"2024-05-29","duration":681,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-14"},"end_time":"2024-05-29T11:40:28+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-29T11:29:07+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":706,"blocks":[["李委員坤城：（11時29分）謝謝主席，我們請主計長。"],["陳主計長淑姿：委員好。"],["李委員坤城：主計長好。請教一下主計長，我們前瞻計畫的預算是到哪一年結束？"],["陳主計長淑姿：到114年，整個8,400億，到114年剩下703億。"],["李委員坤城：預算呢？明年還會有前瞻計畫的預算嗎？"],["陳主計長淑姿：因為前瞻計畫是整個計畫，當初有核定通過，所以我們原則上是會把整個計畫執行完畢。"],["李委員坤城：對，我的意思是，現在開始要編明年度的預算了，那明年度還有這個前瞻計畫的預算嗎？"],["陳主計長淑姿：因為前瞻計畫是8年，最後一年就是114年度有剩下703億的部分，這個部分我們原則上是會把它籌編。"],["李委員坤城：就是說明年的前瞻計畫預算還有七百多億就對了？"],["陳主計長淑姿：對，703億。"],["李委員坤城：好。現在我比較關心的是，在我自己的選區，不管在三重或是新北市，我們有很多的交通建設、軌道建設都是仰賴政府的前瞻預算，如果前瞻預算只到明年就結束了，接下來比如說我們北環、南環都還在蓋，還有三重過去也爭取了很多地下停車場，現在也還要持續來爭取，如果前瞻預算只編到明年，這個特別預算就沒有了，但是接下來這些軌道建設陸陸續續都還在做，不是只有新北，臺北也在做，接下來如果沒有這筆特別預算來挹注的話，因為我看光是前瞻預算八千億來講，軌道建設就占了一半、占了四千億，如果沒有前瞻預算挹注的話，接下來新北的軌道建設該怎麼辦？"],["陳主計長淑姿：坦白說，我們目前有很大的壓力，因為如果之後前瞻預算沒有的話，將來各項工程如果進入支付的高峰期，再來都要把它到年度預算裡面來容納，但年度預算裡面的財源是固定的，所以就會有一些優先順序排列的問題。"],["李委員坤城：有些預算就被排擠了嘛！"],["陳主計長淑姿：是，就會有排擠的狀況，這個部分，當然114年至少還有703億，但是目前交通建設、各項的建設都已經進入支付的高峰期，所以需求就會變大，但是703億之後……"],["李委員坤城：703億分配到軌道建設才多少？"],["陳主計長淑姿：對，所以等於115年以後，籌編就會更為困難。"],["李委員坤城：對啊，光是這個七百多億，我不知道有關軌道建設是多少，但是光是新北市的北環、南環，這個預算大概五、六千億以上跑不掉啦！就像你講的，接下來開始在做了，好不容易也發包出去，開始在做了，每年、每年都要付預算，如果政府沒有再有這個特別預算下去挹注的話，就會排擠到交通部的本預算。所以我想請問主計長，如果這樣子的話，接下來還會用特別預算的方式來做處理嗎？還是這個多出來的預算就會編列到各部會，你這個預算的錢要怎麼編得出來啊？"],["陳主計長淑姿：因為其實預算的編列是看各部會提出的需求，再來如果前瞻計畫沒有的話，將來它勢必會衝擊到年度預算，等於說年度公共建設的預算額度勢必要做大幅的增加，這個部分也必須要看財源能不能容納以及能容納多少，這個部分我們必須看財政部的狀況，畢竟在114年或者115年以後，他要針對他歲入財源做估算。"],["李委員坤城：就我來講，如果你沒有持續用特別預算來支應的話，你所增加的預算一定會大幅排擠本來各部會的預算，尤其是交通部。"],["陳主計長淑姿：那是一定的。"],["李委員坤城：你看，我跟交通部爭取要做地下停車場，他說地下停車場的預算已經用完了，還說接下來如果沒有編特別預算的話，他就要用交通部的部預算。老實講，他大概就不會用了，他就叫地方政府用自己的經費來做啦！但是對很多新北地區，以我自己的選區來講，如果遇到這種情況的話，大概要爭取地下停車場就很困難了啦！所以我是認為這些持續的計畫，應該還是要用特別預算來支應，不然真的會很嚴重地排擠到各部會自己原本的預算，主計長的看法呢？"],["陳主計長淑姿：是，這也要看整個政策方向，是不是要提特別預算，也應該要按部會的需求來看。"],["李委員坤城：我先不說各部會，因為你是最後，各部會會送到你那邊去嘛！主計長認為是不是還要再用特別預算的方式來支應？"],["陳主計長淑姿：因為也有很多委員針對特別預算有所質疑，所以這個部分也必須看院裡頭針對這個部分的研議情形是怎麼樣，然後再看要怎麼樣來做討論。"],["李委員坤城：但是如果沒有這些特別預算來支應的話，我是認為，第一個，建設要延續下去，勢必就會排擠到其他各部會原本的預算，這部分行政院自己要去討論好，如果到明年前瞻預算真的計畫也結束的時候，我認為其他的子計畫還好，但是有關軌道這方面，你如果沒有用特別預算來支應的話，我覺得會是很困難的事情。"],["陳主計長淑姿：所以各項計畫優先順序的排列就很重要，然後各部會也要有所取捨。"],["李委員坤城：好，我再來請教主計長，剛剛你有提到今年度的GDP，你認為GDP3.5%以上沒有問題？"],["陳主計長淑姿：如果是以第一季來估算且其他條件不變的話，以前面三、四個月這樣的情況來換算，應該超過3.5%是OK的，等於我粗估，如果以現在發生實際前三個月情況去估算，且後面條件都維持不動的話，3.5%是OK，但是還是要等到明天，我們30日會有一個小組針對這個討論以後，真正的數據他會做公布。"],["李委員坤城：對，我看主計長是滿樂觀的，我們卓院長說希望有3.5%，我看你早上有說甚至會更高，到三點多。"],["陳主計長淑姿：這個數字我不敢講，這個部分我也不能公布數字，但是這個部分明天討論之後，我們就會公布。"],["李委員坤城：如果按照你現在的估算的話，會比3.5%高，你認為有哪些變數會受到影響？"],["陳主計長淑姿：當然，電費調整，成本會增加，相對的對GDP會有一些影響，然後包括譬如說地緣政治、有一些戰爭因素的影響……"],["李委員坤城：什麼？"],["陳主計長淑姿：戰爭的影響或是地緣政治的一些影響，都會影響到我們整個GDP的……"],["李委員坤城：但整體來講，全年度還是樂觀的？"],["陳主計長淑姿：原則上初步來講，以第一季來看是樂觀的。"],["李委員坤城：好。你剛才有提到台電的問題，台電的話，你們有送一千億的增加預算到立法院來嘛？"],["陳主計長淑姿：是。"],["李委員坤城：因為現在國民黨跟民眾黨在國會是多數，如果他們不讓增加預算通過的話，該怎麼辦？"],["陳主計長淑姿：因為你如果不給台電，其實最主要是做虧損的補貼，因為他有一些燃料成本，他必須要……如果不調整電價的話，他就必須要去做一些虧損的補貼，不然的話，他沒有辦法繼續運作，所以如果……"],["李委員坤城：我知道，如果在野黨不讓你追加預算通過的話，該怎麼辦？"],["陳主計長淑姿：這個部分就變成是台電應該要再研擬相關的措施，至於他的措施到底是要調整電價還是怎麼樣的方式……"],["李委員坤城：不是，電價他現在不讓你調整啦！現在電價部分他要修改電業法，就是說要立法院同意，電價才能調整嘛！所以我是問你，在這種情況下，如果在野黨對於追加預算也不讓你過，然後也不讓台電漲價的話，該怎麼辦？"],["陳主計長淑姿：所以如果台電在營運的部分必須要舉債，他就應該要去借錢，但是借錢的話，他的營運成本又增加，所以這個部分就是有一些惡性循環。"],["李委員坤城：所以最後還是回到羊毛出在羊身上這個問題。"],["陳主計長淑姿：是的。"],["李委員坤城：台電在112年、113年，連同今年的追加預算，你們已經給他三千五百億了，對不對？"],["陳主計長淑姿：對。"],["李委員坤城：老實講，台電的虧損……"],["陳主計長淑姿：應該是將近四千億了。"],["李委員坤城：多少？"],["陳主計長淑姿：四千億。"],["李委員坤城：四千億了？這樣子的話，去年是因為我們有賺錢，所以我們又多給台電一千億，但這個對台電來講也不是長久的辦法，台電該怎麼辦？"],["陳主計長淑姿：所以這個部分，因為就他整個營運的狀況來講，應該是要做一些相關的調整。"],["李委員坤城：電價調整？"],["陳主計長淑姿：是，或者是……這個部分應該要看台電將來要怎麼樣去做一些措施的……"],["李委員坤城：台電會把他們虧損的預算列在他們的預算裡面，但是經濟部那邊好像有些意見。"],["陳主計長淑姿：是，因為我們也有對台電……等於說兩年四千億有一些是屬於增資，如果真正不行，也可以虧損彌補做一個虧損的調整，現在營運的話，營運成本的部分，它如果去舉借，錢不夠去借款，那就是增加一些成本，大概目前的措施是這樣，如果它沒有調整電價的話；它如果調整電價，整個狀況就會比較好，所以這要看台電它整個措施是怎麼樣來辦理，所以要看台電的作法。"],["李委員坤城：好，謝謝，謝謝主計長，謝謝主席。"],["陳主計長淑姿：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝李坤城委員的質詢。","接著我們請伍麗華委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":108,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-14","speakers":["郭國文","林德福","吳秉叡","顏寬恒","賴惠員","賴士葆","王鴻薇","王世堅","李彥秀","黃珊珊","李坤城","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳玉珍","羅明才","鄭天財Sra 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{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 538.441, \"end\": 538.521, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 538.521, \"end\": 538.581, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 538.581, \"end\": 538.701, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 538.701, \"end\": 538.981, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 538.981, \"end\": 539.982, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 539.982, \"end\": 540.442, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 540.442, \"end\": 540.762, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"況\"}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 540.762, \"end\": 540.943, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 540.943, \"end\": 541.083, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 541.083, \"end\": 541.483, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 541.483, \"end\": 541.603, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"野\", \"start\": 541.603, \"end\": 541.903, 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{\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 544.425, \"end\": 544.505, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 544.505, \"end\": 544.645, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"漲\"}, {\"word\": \"價\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 544.645, \"end\": 544.785, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"怎\", \"start\": 544.785, \"end\": 544.805, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}]}, {\"start\": 546.546, \"end\": 546.566, \"text\": \"這老實講齁\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"老\", \"start\": 546.546, \"end\": 546.566, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"齁\"}]}, {\"start\": 574.813, \"end\": 581.475, \"text\": \"昨年是因為我們有賺錢所以我們就多一千億給台電這個對台電來講也不是長久的辦法那台電該怎麼辦\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"昨\", \"start\": 574.813, \"end\": 575.053, \"score\": 0.785}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 575.053, \"end\": 575.213, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 575.213, \"end\": 575.333, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 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{\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 578.614, \"end\": 578.935, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 578.935, \"end\": 579.055, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 579.055, \"end\": 579.855, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 579.855, \"end\": 580.135, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"久\", \"start\": 580.135, \"end\": 580.235, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 580.235, \"end\": 580.795, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 580.795, \"end\": 581.275, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 581.275, \"end\": 581.395, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 581.395, \"end\": 581.455, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"怎\", \"start\": 581.455, \"end\": 581.475, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}]}, {\"start\": 596.067, \"end\": 605.161, \"text\": \"所以這個部分因為就它整個營運的狀況來講的話應該是要做一些相關的一個調整\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 596.067, \"end\": 596.187, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 596.187, \"end\": 596.648, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 596.648, \"end\": 596.908, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 596.908, \"end\": 598.451, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 598.451, \"end\": 598.751, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 598.751, \"end\": 598.972, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 598.972, \"end\": 599.352, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 599.352, \"end\": 599.973, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"營\"}, {\"word\": \"運\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 599.973, \"end\": 601.355, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"狀\"}, {\"word\": \"況\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 601.355, \"end\": 602.337, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 602.337, \"end\": 602.497, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 602.497, \"end\": 603.639, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 603.639, \"end\": 603.819, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 603.819, \"end\": 603.919, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 603.919, \"end\": 604.139, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 604.139, \"end\": 604.52, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 604.52, \"end\": 604.64, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 604.64, \"end\": 605.141, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 605.141, \"end\": 605.161, \"score\": 0.688}]}, {\"start\": 608.779, \"end\": 611.501, \"text\": \"台電會把他們虧損的預算列在他們的預算裡面但是經濟部那邊好像有些意見\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 608.779, \"end\": 608.839, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 608.839, \"end\": 608.96, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 608.96, \"end\": 609.04, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"虧\"}, {\"word\": \"損\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 609.04, \"end\": 609.22, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 609.22, \"end\": 609.4, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"列\", \"start\": 609.4, \"end\": 609.54, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 609.54, \"end\": 609.64, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 609.64, \"end\": 609.7, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 609.7, \"end\": 609.72, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 609.72, \"end\": 609.96, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 609.96, \"end\": 610.72, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 610.72, \"end\": 610.82, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 610.82, \"end\": 610.96, \"score\": 0.857}, 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新 北 市 我 們 有 很 多 的 交 通 建 設 軌 道 建 設 都 是 仰 賴 政 府 的 前 瞻 的 預 算 那 如 果 說 前 瞻 的 預 算 直 到 明 年 就 結 束 了 那 接 下 來\n\n4\n00:01:13,902 --> 00:01:14,282\n李 坤 城 議 員\n\n5\n00:01:30,295 --> 00:01:58,448\n明 年 這 個 特 別 預 算 就 沒 有 了 但 是 接 下 來 這 些 軌 道 建 設 陸 陸 續 續 都 還 在 做 不 是 只 有 新 北 台 北 也 在 做 接 下 來 如 果 沒 有 這 筆 特 別 預 算 來 挹 注 的 話 因 為 我 看 光 是 我 們 前 瞻 預 算 來 講 8 千 億 軌 道 建 設 就 佔 了 一 半 佔 了 4 千 億 如 果 沒 有 前 瞻 預 算 的 挹 注 的 話 接 下 來 我 們 在 新 北 我 們 自 己 的 軌 道 建 設 該 怎 麼 辦\n\n6\n00:02:00,835 --> 00:02:28,715\n原 則 上 坦 白 說 我 們 目 前 也 有 很 大 的 壓 力 因 為 如 果 在 前 瞻 計 畫 沒 有 的 話 前 瞻 預 算 沒 有 的 話 將 來 各 項 工 程 如 果 進 入 支 付 的 高 峰 期 那 再 來 都 要 把 它 到 年 度 預 算 裡 面 來 容 納 那 年 度 預 算 裡 面 的 那 財 源 是 固 定 的 所 以 你 就 會 有 一 些 優 先 順 序 排 列 就 預 算 就 排 擠 了 嗎 是 就 會 有 排 擠 的 一 個 狀 況 所 以 這 個 部 分 當 然\n\n7\n00:02:29,856 --> 00:02:56,031\n到 時 候 就 是 1 1 4 年 至 少 還 有 7 0 3 億 嘛 但 是 目 前 交 通 建 設 各 項 的 建 設 都 已 經 進 入 支 付 的 高 峰 期 所 以 需 求 就 會 變 大 但 是 7 0 3 億 分 配 到 軌 道 建 設 才 多 少 對 所 以 等 於 說 1 1 5 年 以 後 籌 編 就 會 更 為 困 難 對 啊 光 是 這 個 7 0 0 多 億 我 不 知 道 說 有 關 軌 道 建 設 是 多 少 但 是 光 是 我 自 己 在 新 北 市 的 北 環 南 環 這 個\n\n8\n00:02:57,915 --> 00:03:02,072\n預 算 大 概 五 六 千 億 以 上 啦 是 跑 不 掉 啦\n\n9\n00:03:02,967 --> 00:03:29,728\n對 阿 那 就 像 你 講 的 接 下 來 開 始 在 做 了 那 好 不 容 易 也 發 報 出 去 開 始 在 做 了 那 每 年 每 年 都 要 付 預 算 阿 那 如 果 說 我 們 政 府 沒 有 在 特 別 有 這 個 特 別 預 算 下 去 挹 注 的 話 那 就 會 排 擠 到 交 通 部 的 本 預 算 那 所 以 我 想 請 問 一 下 主 計 長 那 如 果 這 樣 子 的 話 接 下 來 還 會 用 特 別 預 算 的 方 式 來 做 處 理 嗎 那 還 是 說 這 個 多 出 來 預 算 那 好 就 編 列 到 各 部 會 那 你 這 個 你 這 個 預 算 這 個 錢 要 怎 麼 編 的 出 來 阿\n\n10\n00:03:31,750 --> 00:03:46,899\n因 為 其 實 是 預 算 的 一 個 編 列 是 看 各 部 會 的 一 個 需 求 他 提 出 的 一 個 需 求 那 當 然 你 如 果 說 再 來 就 是 會 如 果 全 山 計 畫 沒 有 的 話 那 將 來 他 勢 必 要 去 衝 擊 到 年 度 的 一 個 預 算\n\n11\n00:03:48,280 --> 00:04:05,146\n等 於 說 年 度 的 一 個 公 共 建 設 的 一 個 預 算 他 的 額 度 可 能 是 度 勢 必 要 做 大 幅 的 一 個 增 加 那 這 個 部 分 也 必 須 要 看 財 源 能 不 能 容 納 容 納 多 少 這 個 部 分 必 須 我 們 必 須 看 財 政 部 他 畢 竟 在 1 1 1 4 年 或 者 1 1 5 年 後 以 後 他 針 針 對 他 稅 務 財 源 的 一 個 估 算\n\n12\n00:04:11,636 --> 00:04:37,013\n就 我 來 講 如 果 你 沒 有 在 持 續 在 用 特 別 預 算 來 指 引 的 話 你 這 個 所 增 加 的 這 些 預 算 一 定 會 大 幅 排 擠 本 來 的 這 一 個 各 部 會 的 預 算 尤 其 是 交 通 部 你 看 嘛 交 通 部 我 跟 他 爭 取 那 個 要 做 這 個 地 下 停 車 場 他 說 地 下 停 車 場 的 預 算 已 經 用 完 了 欸 已 經 用 完 了 欸 那 他 說 接 下 來 如 果 沒 有 編 特 別 預 算 的 話 他 要 用 他 本 這 個 交 通 部 的 這 個\n\n13\n00:04:37,933 --> 00:04:38,093\n李 坤 城 議 員\n\n14\n00:04:58,131 --> 00:04:58,912\n主 計 長 的 看 法 呢 ?\n\n15\n00:05:10,670 --> 00:05:27,649\n這 也 要 看 我 們 整 個 一 個 政 策 的 那 個 是 不 是 要 提 特 別 預 算 也 應 該 要 按 部 會 的 一 個 需 求 來 看 那 我 先 不 用 說 各 部 會 啦 因 為 你 是 最 後 各 部 會 送 到 你 這 邊 去 嘛 那 主 計 長 認 為 說 那 是 不 是 還 要 再 用 特 別 預 算 的 方 式 來 做 質 疑\n\n16\n00:05:28,536 --> 00:05:43,249\n因 為 也 有 很 多 的 委 員 針 對 特 別 預 算 有 所 質 疑 那 在 這 個 部 分 也 必 須 要 看 院 裡 頭 府 城 這 邊 來 針 對 這 個 部 分 的 一 個 研 議 看 情 形 是 怎 麼 樣 然 後 看 是 怎 麼 樣 來 做 討 論\n\n17\n00:05:45,678 --> 00:06:05,788\n但 是 如 果 沒 有 這 些 特 別 預 算 做 指 引 的 話 我 是 認 為 第 一 個 建 設 延 續 下 去 你 就 會 勢 必 排 擠 到 說 其 他 各 部 會 原 本 的 預 算 那 如 果 這 個 你 們 自 己 可 能 自 己 行 政 院 你 們 要 去 討 論 好 如 果 說 到 明 年 這 個 潛 在 預 算 真 的 計 畫 也 結 束 的 時 候 接 下 來\n\n18\n00:06:06,928 --> 00:06:08,148\n主 席 主 席 主 席 主 席\n\n19\n00:06:35,487 --> 00:07:00,636\n如 果 是 我 以 第 一 季 來 去 估 算 的 話 然 後 其 他 條 件 不 變 我 前 面 三 四 個 月 這 樣 的 一 個 換 算 來 換 算 應 該 是 超 過 3 . 5 是 O K 就 是 等 於 我 初 估 如 果 以 前 以 現 在 發 生 實 際 前 三 個 月 情 況 去 估 算 然 後 後 面 條 件 都 維 持 不 動 是 3 . 5 是 O K 但 是 還 是 要 等 到 明 天 我 們 3 0 號 會 有 一 個 小 組 針 對 這 個 討 論 以 後 真 正 的 數 據 他 會 做 公 佈\n\n20\n00:07:04,133 --> 00:07:29,382\n我 看 這 個 主 計 長 是 蠻 熱 觀 的 齁 這 個 我 們 卓 院 長 說 希 望 有 3 . 5 然 後 我 看 您 早 上 有 說 這 個 甚 至 會 更 高 到 這 個 多 少 3 點 多 這 個 數 字 我 不 敢 講 啦 但 是 這 個 部 分 我 也 不 能 公 布 數 字 但 是 這 個 部 分 明 天 討 論 之 後 我 們 就 會 公 布 那 這 個 如 果 按 照 你 現 在 預 算 的 這 個 估 算 的 話 會 比 3 . 5 高 那 你 認 為 會 有 哪 些 變 數 會 受 到 影 響 因 為 當 然\n\n21\n00:07:33,455 --> 00:08:00,849\n電 費 調 整 成 本 會 增 加 嘛 相 對 的 對 G D P 會 有 一 些 的 影 響 啦 這 個 部 分 然 後 包 括 譬 如 說 如 果 是 政 治 的 因 素 地 緣 政 治 有 一 些 戰 爭 的 一 些 因 素 的 影 響 戰 爭 的 影 響 地 緣 政 治 的 一 些 影 響 都 會 影 響 到 我 們 整 個 G D P 的 一 個 那 個 但 整 體 來 講 全 年 度 還 是 樂 觀 的 原 則 上 初 步 來 講 以 第 一 季 來 看 是 樂 觀 的\n\n22\n00:08:02,008 --> 00:08:18,717\n好 那 你 看 有 提 到 那 個 台 電 的 問 題 啦 齁 台 電 的 話 你 們 有 送 這 個 一 千 億 的 這 個 增 加 預 算 到 立 法 院 來 嘛 對 不 對 那 如 果 這 個 立 法 院 因 為 現 在 這 個 國 民 黨 跟 民 眾 黨 在 國 會 是 多 數 嘛 那 如 果 他 不 讓 這 個 預 算 增 加 預 算 這 個 通 過 的 話 該 怎 麼 辦\n\n23\n00:08:21,203 --> 00:08:26,489\n如 果 不 調 整 電 價 的 話 , 他 就 必 須 要 去 做 一 些 虧 損 的 補 貼 , 那 不 然 的 話 他 沒 有 辦 法 繼 續 去 運 作 。 那 所 以 如 果 這 一 條 通 過 的 話 該 怎 麼 辦 ?\n\n24\n00:08:42,150 --> 00:09:04,805\n那 這 個 部 分 就 變 成 是 說 臺 電 他 應 該 要 再 研 擬 相 關 的 一 個 措 施 那 他 的 措 施 到 底 是 要 調 整 電 價 還 是 怎 麼 樣 的 一 個 方 式 電 價 他 現 在 也 不 讓 你 調 整 啊 他 現 在 電 價 他 修 改 這 個 電 業 法 就 是 說 要 立 法 院 同 意 電 價 才 能 調 整 嘛 所 以 我 是 問 你 說 在 這 種 情 況 下 如 果 說 在 野 黨 他 這 個 追 加 預 算 也 不 讓 你 過 然 後 臺 電 他 也 不 讓 他 漲 價 的 話 怎 麼 辦\n\n25\n00:09:06,546 --> 00:09:06,566\n這 老 實 講 齁\n\n26\n00:09:34,813 --> 00:09:41,475\n昨 年 是 因 為 我 們 有 賺 錢 所 以 我 們 就 多 一 千 億 給 台 電 這 個 對 台 電 來 講 也 不 是 長 久 的 辦 法 那 台 電 該 怎 麼 辦\n\n27\n00:09:56,067 --> 00:10:05,161\n所 以 這 個 部 分 因 為 就 它 整 個 營 運 的 狀 況 來 講 的 話 應 該 是 要 做 一 些 相 關 的 一 個 調 整\n\n28\n00:10:08,779 --> 00:10:11,501\n台 電 會 把 他 們 虧 損 的 預 算 列 在 他 們 的 預 算 裡 面 但 是 經 濟 部 那 邊 好 像 有 些 意 見\n\n29\n00:10:29,885 --> 00:10:53,358\n因 為 我 們 也 有 做 對 台 電 等 於 說 我 們 去 年 兩 年 4 千 億 總 共 有 一 些 是 屬 於 增 資 那 如 果 說 真 正 的 不 行 也 可 以 做 虧 損 彌 補 做 一 個 調 整 做 一 個 虧 損 的 一 個 調 整 那 現 在 營 運 的 話 如 果 營 運 成 本 的 部 分 如 果 錢 不 夠 去 借 款 那 就 是 增 加 一 些 成 本\n\n30\n00:10:53,678 --> 00:10:54,198\n李 坤 城 委 員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2560\t13269\t委員好主計長好請教一下主計長我們這個前瞻計畫的預算是到哪一年結束我們到114年整個8400億然後到114年剩下703億預算是明年還會有前瞻計畫的預算嗎\n23243\t49441\t原則上因為這前瞻計劃是整個一個計劃當初有核定通過所以我們原則上是會把整個計劃執行完畢是這樣子對我的意思是說這個現在開始要編明年度的預算了嘛那明年度還有這個前瞻預算嗎前瞻計劃的預算嗎還有嗎因為你目前前瞻計劃它八年嘛那最後一年就是114年度有剩下703億的部分那這個部分我們原則上是會把它籌編\n51198\t72952\t明年的前瞻計畫預算還有700多億就對了現在我比較關心的就是說在我自己的選區不管在三重或是新北市我們有很多的交通建設軌道建設都是仰賴政府的前瞻的預算那如果說前瞻的預算直到明年就結束了那接下來\n73902\t74282\t李坤城議員\n90295\t118448\t明年這個特別預算就沒有了但是接下來這些軌道建設陸陸續續都還在做不是只有新北 台北也在做接下來如果沒有這筆特別預算來挹注的話因為我看光是我們前瞻預算來講8千億軌道建設就佔了一半 佔了4千億如果沒有前瞻預算的挹注的話接下來我們在新北 我們自己的軌道建設該怎麼辦\n120835\t148715\t原則上坦白說我們目前也有很大的壓力因為如果在前瞻計畫沒有的話前瞻預算沒有的話將來各項工程如果進入支付的高峰期那再來都要把它到年度預算裡面來容納那年度預算裡面的那財源是固定的所以你就會有一些優先順序排列就預算就排擠了嗎是就會有排擠的一個狀況所以這個部分當然\n149856\t176031\t到時候就是114年至少還有703億嘛但是目前交通建設各項的建設都已經進入支付的高峰期所以需求就會變大但是703億分配到軌道建設才多少對所以等於說115年以後籌編就會更為困難對啊光是這個700多億我不知道說有關軌道建設是多少但是光是我自己在新北市的北環南環這個\n177915\t182072\t預算大概五六千億以上啦是跑不掉啦\n182967\t209728\t對阿 那就像你講的接下來開始在做了那好不容易也發報出去開始在做了那每年每年都要付預算阿那如果說我們政府沒有在特別有這個特別預算下去挹注的話那就會排擠到交通部的本預算那所以我想請問一下主計長那如果這樣子的話接下來還會用特別預算的方式來做處理嗎那還是說這個多出來預算那好就編列到各部會那你這個你這個預算這個錢要怎麼編的出來阿\n211750\t226899\t因為其實是預算的一個編列是看各部會的一個需求他提出的一個需求那當然你如果說再來就是會如果全山計畫沒有的話那將來他勢必要去衝擊到年度的一個預算\n228280\t245146\t等於說年度的一個公共建設的一個預算他的額度可能是度勢必要做大幅的一個增加那這個部分也必須要看財源能不能容納容納多少這個部分必須我們必須看財政部他畢竟在1114年或者115年後以後他針針對他稅務財源的一個估算\n251636\t277013\t就我來講如果你沒有在持續在用特別預算來指引的話你這個所增加的這些預算一定會大幅排擠本來的這一個各部會的預算尤其是交通部你看嘛交通部我跟他爭取那個要做這個地下停車場他說地下停車場的預算已經用完了欸已經用完了欸那他說接下來如果沒有編特別預算的話他要用他本這個交通部的這個\n277933\t278093\t李坤城議員\n298131\t298912\t主計長的看法呢?\n310670\t327649\t這也要看我們整個一個政策的那個是不是要提特別預算也應該要按部會的一個需求來看那我先不用說各部會啦因為你是最後各部會送到你這邊去嘛那主計長認為說那是不是還要再用特別預算的方式來做質疑\n328536\t343249\t因為也有很多的委員針對特別預算有所質疑那在這個部分也必須要看院裡頭府城這邊來針對這個部分的一個研議看情形是怎麼樣然後看是怎麼樣來做討論\n345678\t365788\t但是如果沒有這些特別預算做指引的話我是認為第一個建設延續下去你就會勢必排擠到說其他各部會原本的預算那如果這個你們自己可能自己行政院你們要去討論好如果說到明年這個潛在預算真的計畫也結束的時候接下來\n366928\t368148\t主席主席主席主席\n395487\t420636\t如果是我以第一季來去估算的話然後其他條件不變我前面三四個月這樣的一個換算來換算應該是超過3.5是OK就是等於我初估如果以前以現在發生實際前三個月情況去估算然後後面條件都維持不動是3.5是OK但是還是要等到明天我們30號會有一個小組針對這個討論以後真正的數據他會做公佈\n424133\t449382\t我看這個主計長是蠻熱觀的齁這個我們卓院長說希望有3.5然後我看您早上有說這個甚至會更高到這個多少3點多這個數字我不敢講啦但是這個部分我也不能公布數字但是這個部分明天討論之後我們就會公布那這個如果按照你現在預算的這個估算的話會比3.5高那你認為會有哪些變數會受到影響因為當然\n453455\t480849\t電費調整成本會增加嘛相對的對GDP會有一些的影響啦這個部分然後包括譬如說如果是政治的因素地緣政治有一些戰爭的一些因素的影響戰爭的影響地緣政治的一些影響都會影響到我們整個GDP的一個那個但整體來講全年度還是樂觀的原則上初步來講以第一季來看是樂觀的\n482008\t498717\t好那你看有提到那個台電的問題啦齁台電的話你們有送這個一千億的這個增加預算到立法院來嘛對不對那如果這個立法院因為現在這個國民黨跟民眾黨在國會是多數嘛那如果他不讓這個預算增加預算這個通過的話該怎麼辦\n501203\t506489\t如果不調整電價的話,他就必須要去做一些虧損的補貼,那不然的話他沒有辦法繼續去運作。那所以如果這一條通過的話該怎麼辦?\n522150\t544805\t那這個部分就變成是說臺電他應該要再研擬相關的一個措施那他的措施到底是要調整電價還是怎麼樣的一個方式電價他現在也不讓你調整啊他現在電價他修改這個電業法就是說要立法院同意電價才能調整嘛所以我是問你說在這種情況下如果說在野黨他這個追加預算也不讓你過然後臺電他也不讓他漲價的話怎麼辦\n546546\t546566\t這老實講齁\n574813\t581475\t昨年是因為我們有賺錢所以我們就多一千億給台電這個對台電來講也不是長久的辦法那台電該怎麼辦\n596067\t605161\t所以這個部分因為就它整個營運的狀況來講的話應該是要做一些相關的一個調整\n608779\t611501\t台電會把他們虧損的預算列在他們的預算裡面但是經濟部那邊好像有些意見\n629885\t653358\t因為我們也有做對台電等於說我們去年兩年4千億總共有一些是屬於增資那如果說真正的不行也可以做虧損彌補做一個調整做一個虧損的一個調整那現在營運的話如果營運成本的部分如果錢不夠去借款那就是增加一些成本\n653678\t654198\t李坤城委員\n","txt":"委員好主計長好請教一下主計長我們這個前瞻計畫的預算是到哪一年結束我們到114年整個8400億然後到114年剩下703億預算是明年還會有前瞻計畫的預算嗎\n原則上因為這前瞻計劃是整個一個計劃當初有核定通過所以我們原則上是會把整個計劃執行完畢是這樣子對我的意思是說這個現在開始要編明年度的預算了嘛那明年度還有這個前瞻預算嗎前瞻計劃的預算嗎還有嗎因為你目前前瞻計劃它八年嘛那最後一年就是114年度有剩下703億的部分那這個部分我們原則上是會把它籌編\n明年的前瞻計畫預算還有700多億就對了現在我比較關心的就是說在我自己的選區不管在三重或是新北市我們有很多的交通建設軌道建設都是仰賴政府的前瞻的預算那如果說前瞻的預算直到明年就結束了那接下來\n李坤城議員\n明年這個特別預算就沒有了但是接下來這些軌道建設陸陸續續都還在做不是只有新北 台北也在做接下來如果沒有這筆特別預算來挹注的話因為我看光是我們前瞻預算來講8千億軌道建設就佔了一半 佔了4千億如果沒有前瞻預算的挹注的話接下來我們在新北 我們自己的軌道建設該怎麼辦\n原則上坦白說我們目前也有很大的壓力因為如果在前瞻計畫沒有的話前瞻預算沒有的話將來各項工程如果進入支付的高峰期那再來都要把它到年度預算裡面來容納那年度預算裡面的那財源是固定的所以你就會有一些優先順序排列就預算就排擠了嗎是就會有排擠的一個狀況所以這個部分當然\n到時候就是114年至少還有703億嘛但是目前交通建設各項的建設都已經進入支付的高峰期所以需求就會變大但是703億分配到軌道建設才多少對所以等於說115年以後籌編就會更為困難對啊光是這個700多億我不知道說有關軌道建設是多少但是光是我自己在新北市的北環南環這個\n預算大概五六千億以上啦是跑不掉啦\n對阿 那就像你講的接下來開始在做了那好不容易也發報出去開始在做了那每年每年都要付預算阿那如果說我們政府沒有在特別有這個特別預算下去挹注的話那就會排擠到交通部的本預算那所以我想請問一下主計長那如果這樣子的話接下來還會用特別預算的方式來做處理嗎那還是說這個多出來預算那好就編列到各部會那你這個你這個預算這個錢要怎麼編的出來阿\n因為其實是預算的一個編列是看各部會的一個需求他提出的一個需求那當然你如果說再來就是會如果全山計畫沒有的話那將來他勢必要去衝擊到年度的一個預算\n等於說年度的一個公共建設的一個預算他的額度可能是度勢必要做大幅的一個增加那這個部分也必須要看財源能不能容納容納多少這個部分必須我們必須看財政部他畢竟在1114年或者115年後以後他針針對他稅務財源的一個估算\n就我來講如果你沒有在持續在用特別預算來指引的話你這個所增加的這些預算一定會大幅排擠本來的這一個各部會的預算尤其是交通部你看嘛交通部我跟他爭取那個要做這個地下停車場他說地下停車場的預算已經用完了欸已經用完了欸那他說接下來如果沒有編特別預算的話他要用他本這個交通部的這個\n李坤城議員\n主計長的看法呢?\n這也要看我們整個一個政策的那個是不是要提特別預算也應該要按部會的一個需求來看那我先不用說各部會啦因為你是最後各部會送到你這邊去嘛那主計長認為說那是不是還要再用特別預算的方式來做質疑\n因為也有很多的委員針對特別預算有所質疑那在這個部分也必須要看院裡頭府城這邊來針對這個部分的一個研議看情形是怎麼樣然後看是怎麼樣來做討論\n但是如果沒有這些特別預算做指引的話我是認為第一個建設延續下去你就會勢必排擠到說其他各部會原本的預算那如果這個你們自己可能自己行政院你們要去討論好如果說到明年這個潛在預算真的計畫也結束的時候接下來\n主席主席主席主席\n如果是我以第一季來去估算的話然後其他條件不變我前面三四個月這樣的一個換算來換算應該是超過3.5是OK就是等於我初估如果以前以現在發生實際前三個月情況去估算然後後面條件都維持不動是3.5是OK但是還是要等到明天我們30號會有一個小組針對這個討論以後真正的數據他會做公佈\n我看這個主計長是蠻熱觀的齁這個我們卓院長說希望有3.5然後我看您早上有說這個甚至會更高到這個多少3點多這個數字我不敢講啦但是這個部分我也不能公布數字但是這個部分明天討論之後我們就會公布那這個如果按照你現在預算的這個估算的話會比3.5高那你認為會有哪些變數會受到影響因為當然\n電費調整成本會增加嘛相對的對GDP會有一些的影響啦這個部分然後包括譬如說如果是政治的因素地緣政治有一些戰爭的一些因素的影響戰爭的影響地緣政治的一些影響都會影響到我們整個GDP的一個那個但整體來講全年度還是樂觀的原則上初步來講以第一季來看是樂觀的\n好那你看有提到那個台電的問題啦齁台電的話你們有送這個一千億的這個增加預算到立法院來嘛對不對那如果這個立法院因為現在這個國民黨跟民眾黨在國會是多數嘛那如果他不讓這個預算增加預算這個通過的話該怎麼辦\n如果不調整電價的話,他就必須要去做一些虧損的補貼,那不然的話他沒有辦法繼續去運作。那所以如果這一條通過的話該怎麼辦?\n那這個部分就變成是說臺電他應該要再研擬相關的一個措施那他的措施到底是要調整電價還是怎麼樣的一個方式電價他現在也不讓你調整啊他現在電價他修改這個電業法就是說要立法院同意電價才能調整嘛所以我是問你說在這種情況下如果說在野黨他這個追加預算也不讓你過然後臺電他也不讓他漲價的話怎麼辦\n這老實講齁\n昨年是因為我們有賺錢所以我們就多一千億給台電這個對台電來講也不是長久的辦法那台電該怎麼辦\n所以這個部分因為就它整個營運的狀況來講的話應該是要做一些相關的一個調整\n台電會把他們虧損的預算列在他們的預算裡面但是經濟部那邊好像有些意見\n因為我們也有做對台電等於說我們去年兩年4千億總共有一些是屬於增資那如果說真正的不行也可以做虧損彌補做一個調整做一個虧損的一個調整那現在營運的話如果營運成本的部分如果錢不夠去借款那就是增加一些成本\n李坤城委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.560 --> 00:13.269\n委 員 好 主 計 長 好 請 教 一 下 主 計 長 我 們 這 個 前 瞻 計 畫 的 預 算 是 到 哪 一 年 結 束 我 們 到 1 1 4 年 整 個 8 4 0 0 億 然 後 到 1 1 4 年 剩 下 7 0 3 億 預 算 是 明 年 還 會 有 前 瞻 計 畫 的 預 算 嗎\n\n00:23.243 --> 00:49.441\n原 則 上 因 為 這 前 瞻 計 劃 是 整 個 一 個 計 劃 當 初 有 核 定 通 過 所 以 我 們 原 則 上 是 會 把 整 個 計 劃 執 行 完 畢 是 這 樣 子 對 我 的 意 思 是 說 這 個 現 在 開 始 要 編 明 年 度 的 預 算 了 嘛 那 明 年 度 還 有 這 個 前 瞻 預 算 嗎 前 瞻 計 劃 的 預 算 嗎 還 有 嗎 因 為 你 目 前 前 瞻 計 劃 它 八 年 嘛 那 最 後 一 年 就 是 1 1 4 年 度 有 剩 下 7 0 3 億 的 部 分 那 這 個 部 分 我 們 原 則 上 是 會 把 它 籌 編\n\n00:51.198 --> 01:12.952\n明 年 的 前 瞻 計 畫 預 算 還 有 7 0 0 多 億 就 對 了 現 在 我 比 較 關 心 的 就 是 說 在 我 自 己 的 選 區 不 管 在 三 重 或 是 新 北 市 我 們 有 很 多 的 交 通 建 設 軌 道 建 設 都 是 仰 賴 政 府 的 前 瞻 的 預 算 那 如 果 說 前 瞻 的 預 算 直 到 明 年 就 結 束 了 那 接 下 來\n\n01:13.902 --> 01:14.282\n李 坤 城 議 員\n\n01:30.295 --> 01:58.448\n明 年 這 個 特 別 預 算 就 沒 有 了 但 是 接 下 來 這 些 軌 道 建 設 陸 陸 續 續 都 還 在 做 不 是 只 有 新 北 台 北 也 在 做 接 下 來 如 果 沒 有 這 筆 特 別 預 算 來 挹 注 的 話 因 為 我 看 光 是 我 們 前 瞻 預 算 來 講 8 千 億 軌 道 建 設 就 佔 了 一 半 佔 了 4 千 億 如 果 沒 有 前 瞻 預 算 的 挹 注 的 話 接 下 來 我 們 在 新 北 我 們 自 己 的 軌 道 建 設 該 怎 麼 辦\n\n02:00.835 --> 02:28.715\n原 則 上 坦 白 說 我 們 目 前 也 有 很 大 的 壓 力 因 為 如 果 在 前 瞻 計 畫 沒 有 的 話 前 瞻 預 算 沒 有 的 話 將 來 各 項 工 程 如 果 進 入 支 付 的 高 峰 期 那 再 來 都 要 把 它 到 年 度 預 算 裡 面 來 容 納 那 年 度 預 算 裡 面 的 那 財 源 是 固 定 的 所 以 你 就 會 有 一 些 優 先 順 序 排 列 就 預 算 就 排 擠 了 嗎 是 就 會 有 排 擠 的 一 個 狀 況 所 以 這 個 部 分 當 然\n\n02:29.856 --> 02:56.031\n到 時 候 就 是 1 1 4 年 至 少 還 有 7 0 3 億 嘛 但 是 目 前 交 通 建 設 各 項 的 建 設 都 已 經 進 入 支 付 的 高 峰 期 所 以 需 求 就 會 變 大 但 是 7 0 3 億 分 配 到 軌 道 建 設 才 多 少 對 所 以 等 於 說 1 1 5 年 以 後 籌 編 就 會 更 為 困 難 對 啊 光 是 這 個 7 0 0 多 億 我 不 知 道 說 有 關 軌 道 建 設 是 多 少 但 是 光 是 我 自 己 在 新 北 市 的 北 環 南 環 這 個\n\n02:57.915 --> 03:02.072\n預 算 大 概 五 六 千 億 以 上 啦 是 跑 不 掉 啦\n\n03:02.967 --> 03:29.728\n對 阿 那 就 像 你 講 的 接 下 來 開 始 在 做 了 那 好 不 容 易 也 發 報 出 去 開 始 在 做 了 那 每 年 每 年 都 要 付 預 算 阿 那 如 果 說 我 們 政 府 沒 有 在 特 別 有 這 個 特 別 預 算 下 去 挹 注 的 話 那 就 會 排 擠 到 交 通 部 的 本 預 算 那 所 以 我 想 請 問 一 下 主 計 長 那 如 果 這 樣 子 的 話 接 下 來 還 會 用 特 別 預 算 的 方 式 來 做 處 理 嗎 那 還 是 說 這 個 多 出 來 預 算 那 好 就 編 列 到 各 部 會 那 你 這 個 你 這 個 預 算 這 個 錢 要 怎 麼 編 的 出 來 阿\n\n03:31.750 --> 03:46.899\n因 為 其 實 是 預 算 的 一 個 編 列 是 看 各 部 會 的 一 個 需 求 他 提 出 的 一 個 需 求 那 當 然 你 如 果 說 再 來 就 是 會 如 果 全 山 計 畫 沒 有 的 話 那 將 來 他 勢 必 要 去 衝 擊 到 年 度 的 一 個 預 算\n\n03:48.280 --> 04:05.146\n等 於 說 年 度 的 一 個 公 共 建 設 的 一 個 預 算 他 的 額 度 可 能 是 度 勢 必 要 做 大 幅 的 一 個 增 加 那 這 個 部 分 也 必 須 要 看 財 源 能 不 能 容 納 容 納 多 少 這 個 部 分 必 須 我 們 必 須 看 財 政 部 他 畢 竟 在 1 1 1 4 年 或 者 1 1 5 年 後 以 後 他 針 針 對 他 稅 務 財 源 的 一 個 估 算\n\n04:11.636 --> 04:37.013\n就 我 來 講 如 果 你 沒 有 在 持 續 在 用 特 別 預 算 來 指 引 的 話 你 這 個 所 增 加 的 這 些 預 算 一 定 會 大 幅 排 擠 本 來 的 這 一 個 各 部 會 的 預 算 尤 其 是 交 通 部 你 看 嘛 交 通 部 我 跟 他 爭 取 那 個 要 做 這 個 地 下 停 車 場 他 說 地 下 停 車 場 的 預 算 已 經 用 完 了 欸 已 經 用 完 了 欸 那 他 說 接 下 來 如 果 沒 有 編 特 別 預 算 的 話 他 要 用 他 本 這 個 交 通 部 的 這 個\n\n04:37.933 --> 04:38.093\n李 坤 城 議 員\n\n04:58.131 --> 04:58.912\n主 計 長 的 看 法 呢 ?\n\n05:10.670 --> 05:27.649\n這 也 要 看 我 們 整 個 一 個 政 策 的 那 個 是 不 是 要 提 特 別 預 算 也 應 該 要 按 部 會 的 一 個 需 求 來 看 那 我 先 不 用 說 各 部 會 啦 因 為 你 是 最 後 各 部 會 送 到 你 這 邊 去 嘛 那 主 計 長 認 為 說 那 是 不 是 還 要 再 用 特 別 預 算 的 方 式 來 做 質 疑\n\n05:28.536 --> 05:43.249\n因 為 也 有 很 多 的 委 員 針 對 特 別 預 算 有 所 質 疑 那 在 這 個 部 分 也 必 須 要 看 院 裡 頭 府 城 這 邊 來 針 對 這 個 部 分 的 一 個 研 議 看 情 形 是 怎 麼 樣 然 後 看 是 怎 麼 樣 來 做 討 論\n\n05:45.678 --> 06:05.788\n但 是 如 果 沒 有 這 些 特 別 預 算 做 指 引 的 話 我 是 認 為 第 一 個 建 設 延 續 下 去 你 就 會 勢 必 排 擠 到 說 其 他 各 部 會 原 本 的 預 算 那 如 果 這 個 你 們 自 己 可 能 自 己 行 政 院 你 們 要 去 討 論 好 如 果 說 到 明 年 這 個 潛 在 預 算 真 的 計 畫 也 結 束 的 時 候 接 下 來\n\n06:06.928 --> 06:08.148\n主 席 主 席 主 席 主 席\n\n06:35.487 --> 07:00.636\n如 果 是 我 以 第 一 季 來 去 估 算 的 話 然 後 其 他 條 件 不 變 我 前 面 三 四 個 月 這 樣 的 一 個 換 算 來 換 算 應 該 是 超 過 3 . 5 是 O K 就 是 等 於 我 初 估 如 果 以 前 以 現 在 發 生 實 際 前 三 個 月 情 況 去 估 算 然 後 後 面 條 件 都 維 持 不 動 是 3 . 5 是 O K 但 是 還 是 要 等 到 明 天 我 們 3 0 號 會 有 一 個 小 組 針 對 這 個 討 論 以 後 真 正 的 數 據 他 會 做 公 佈\n\n07:04.133 --> 07:29.382\n我 看 這 個 主 計 長 是 蠻 熱 觀 的 齁 這 個 我 們 卓 院 長 說 希 望 有 3 . 5 然 後 我 看 您 早 上 有 說 這 個 甚 至 會 更 高 到 這 個 多 少 3 點 多 這 個 數 字 我 不 敢 講 啦 但 是 這 個 部 分 我 也 不 能 公 布 數 字 但 是 這 個 部 分 明 天 討 論 之 後 我 們 就 會 公 布 那 這 個 如 果 按 照 你 現 在 預 算 的 這 個 估 算 的 話 會 比 3 . 5 高 那 你 認 為 會 有 哪 些 變 數 會 受 到 影 響 因 為 當 然\n\n07:33.455 --> 08:00.849\n電 費 調 整 成 本 會 增 加 嘛 相 對 的 對 G D P 會 有 一 些 的 影 響 啦 這 個 部 分 然 後 包 括 譬 如 說 如 果 是 政 治 的 因 素 地 緣 政 治 有 一 些 戰 爭 的 一 些 因 素 的 影 響 戰 爭 的 影 響 地 緣 政 治 的 一 些 影 響 都 會 影 響 到 我 們 整 個 G D P 的 一 個 那 個 但 整 體 來 講 全 年 度 還 是 樂 觀 的 原 則 上 初 步 來 講 以 第 一 季 來 看 是 樂 觀 的\n\n08:02.008 --> 08:18.717\n好 那 你 看 有 提 到 那 個 台 電 的 問 題 啦 齁 台 電 的 話 你 們 有 送 這 個 一 千 億 的 這 個 增 加 預 算 到 立 法 院 來 嘛 對 不 對 那 如 果 這 個 立 法 院 因 為 現 在 這 個 國 民 黨 跟 民 眾 黨 在 國 會 是 多 數 嘛 那 如 果 他 不 讓 這 個 預 算 增 加 預 算 這 個 通 過 的 話 該 怎 麼 辦\n\n08:21.203 --> 08:26.489\n如 果 不 調 整 電 價 的 話 , 他 就 必 須 要 去 做 一 些 虧 損 的 補 貼 , 那 不 然 的 話 他 沒 有 辦 法 繼 續 去 運 作 。 那 所 以 如 果 這 一 條 通 過 的 話 該 怎 麼 辦 ?\n\n08:42.150 --> 09:04.805\n那 這 個 部 分 就 變 成 是 說 臺 電 他 應 該 要 再 研 擬 相 關 的 一 個 措 施 那 他 的 措 施 到 底 是 要 調 整 電 價 還 是 怎 麼 樣 的 一 個 方 式 電 價 他 現 在 也 不 讓 你 調 整 啊 他 現 在 電 價 他 修 改 這 個 電 業 法 就 是 說 要 立 法 院 同 意 電 價 才 能 調 整 嘛 所 以 我 是 問 你 說 在 這 種 情 況 下 如 果 說 在 野 黨 他 這 個 追 加 預 算 也 不 讓 你 過 然 後 臺 電 他 也 不 讓 他 漲 價 的 話 怎 麼 辦\n\n09:06.546 --> 09:06.566\n這 老 實 講 齁\n\n09:34.813 --> 09:41.475\n昨 年 是 因 為 我 們 有 賺 錢 所 以 我 們 就 多 一 千 億 給 台 電 這 個 對 台 電 來 講 也 不 是 長 久 的 辦 法 那 台 電 該 怎 麼 辦\n\n09:56.067 --> 10:05.161\n所 以 這 個 部 分 因 為 就 它 整 個 營 運 的 狀 況 來 講 的 話 應 該 是 要 做 一 些 相 關 的 一 個 調 整\n\n10:08.779 --> 10:11.501\n台 電 會 把 他 們 虧 損 的 預 算 列 在 他 們 的 預 算 裡 面 但 是 經 濟 部 那 邊 好 像 有 些 意 見\n\n10:29.885 --> 10:53.358\n因 為 我 們 也 有 做 對 台 電 等 於 說 我 們 去 年 兩 年 4 千 億 總 共 有 一 些 是 屬 於 增 資 那 如 果 說 真 正 的 不 行 也 可 以 做 虧 損 彌 補 做 一 個 調 整 做 一 個 虧 損 的 一 個 調 整 那 現 在 營 運 的 話 如 果 營 運 成 本 的 部 分 如 果 錢 不 夠 去 借 款 那 就 是 增 加 一 些 成 本\n\n10:53.678 --> 10:54.198\n李 坤 城 委 員\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.56,"end":13.269,"text":"委員好主計長好請教一下主計長我們這個前瞻計畫的預算是到哪一年結束我們到114年整個8400億然後到114年剩下703億預算是明年還會有前瞻計畫的預算嗎"},{"start":23.243,"end":49.441,"text":"原則上因為這前瞻計劃是整個一個計劃當初有核定通過所以我們原則上是會把整個計劃執行完畢是這樣子對我的意思是說這個現在開始要編明年度的預算了嘛那明年度還有這個前瞻預算嗎前瞻計劃的預算嗎還有嗎因為你目前前瞻計劃它八年嘛那最後一年就是114年度有剩下703億的部分那這個部分我們原則上是會把它籌編"},{"start":51.198,"end":72.952,"text":"明年的前瞻計畫預算還有700多億就對了現在我比較關心的就是說在我自己的選區不管在三重或是新北市我們有很多的交通建設軌道建設都是仰賴政府的前瞻的預算那如果說前瞻的預算直到明年就結束了那接下來"},{"start":73.902,"end":74.282,"text":"李坤城議員"},{"start":90.295,"end":118.448,"text":"明年這個特別預算就沒有了但是接下來這些軌道建設陸陸續續都還在做不是只有新北 台北也在做接下來如果沒有這筆特別預算來挹注的話因為我看光是我們前瞻預算來講8千億軌道建設就佔了一半 佔了4千億如果沒有前瞻預算的挹注的話接下來我們在新北 我們自己的軌道建設該怎麼辦"},{"start":120.835,"end":148.715,"text":"原則上坦白說我們目前也有很大的壓力因為如果在前瞻計畫沒有的話前瞻預算沒有的話將來各項工程如果進入支付的高峰期那再來都要把它到年度預算裡面來容納那年度預算裡面的那財源是固定的所以你就會有一些優先順序排列就預算就排擠了嗎是就會有排擠的一個狀況所以這個部分當然"},{"start":149.856,"end":176.031,"text":"到時候就是114年至少還有703億嘛但是目前交通建設各項的建設都已經進入支付的高峰期所以需求就會變大但是703億分配到軌道建設才多少對所以等於說115年以後籌編就會更為困難對啊光是這個700多億我不知道說有關軌道建設是多少但是光是我自己在新北市的北環南環這個"},{"start":177.915,"end":182.072,"text":"預算大概五六千億以上啦是跑不掉啦"},{"start":182.967,"end":209.728,"text":"對阿 那就像你講的接下來開始在做了那好不容易也發報出去開始在做了那每年每年都要付預算阿那如果說我們政府沒有在特別有這個特別預算下去挹注的話那就會排擠到交通部的本預算那所以我想請問一下主計長那如果這樣子的話接下來還會用特別預算的方式來做處理嗎那還是說這個多出來預算那好就編列到各部會那你這個你這個預算這個錢要怎麼編的出來阿"},{"start":211.75,"end":226.899,"text":"因為其實是預算的一個編列是看各部會的一個需求他提出的一個需求那當然你如果說再來就是會如果全山計畫沒有的話那將來他勢必要去衝擊到年度的一個預算"},{"start":228.28,"end":245.146,"text":"等於說年度的一個公共建設的一個預算他的額度可能是度勢必要做大幅的一個增加那這個部分也必須要看財源能不能容納容納多少這個部分必須我們必須看財政部他畢竟在1114年或者115年後以後他針針對他稅務財源的一個估算"},{"start":251.636,"end":277.013,"text":"就我來講如果你沒有在持續在用特別預算來指引的話你這個所增加的這些預算一定會大幅排擠本來的這一個各部會的預算尤其是交通部你看嘛交通部我跟他爭取那個要做這個地下停車場他說地下停車場的預算已經用完了欸已經用完了欸那他說接下來如果沒有編特別預算的話他要用他本這個交通部的這個"},{"start":277.933,"end":278.093,"text":"李坤城議員"},{"start":298.131,"end":298.912,"text":"主計長的看法呢?"},{"start":310.67,"end":327.649,"text":"這也要看我們整個一個政策的那個是不是要提特別預算也應該要按部會的一個需求來看那我先不用說各部會啦因為你是最後各部會送到你這邊去嘛那主計長認為說那是不是還要再用特別預算的方式來做質疑"},{"start":328.536,"end":343.249,"text":"因為也有很多的委員針對特別預算有所質疑那在這個部分也必須要看院裡頭府城這邊來針對這個部分的一個研議看情形是怎麼樣然後看是怎麼樣來做討論"},{"start":345.678,"end":365.788,"text":"但是如果沒有這些特別預算做指引的話我是認為第一個建設延續下去你就會勢必排擠到說其他各部會原本的預算那如果這個你們自己可能自己行政院你們要去討論好如果說到明年這個潛在預算真的計畫也結束的時候接下來"},{"start":366.928,"end":368.148,"text":"主席主席主席主席"},{"start":395.487,"end":420.636,"text":"如果是我以第一季來去估算的話然後其他條件不變我前面三四個月這樣的一個換算來換算應該是超過3.5是OK就是等於我初估如果以前以現在發生實際前三個月情況去估算然後後面條件都維持不動是3.5是OK但是還是要等到明天我們30號會有一個小組針對這個討論以後真正的數據他會做公佈"},{"start":424.133,"end":449.382,"text":"我看這個主計長是蠻熱觀的齁這個我們卓院長說希望有3.5然後我看您早上有說這個甚至會更高到這個多少3點多這個數字我不敢講啦但是這個部分我也不能公布數字但是這個部分明天討論之後我們就會公布那這個如果按照你現在預算的這個估算的話會比3.5高那你認為會有哪些變數會受到影響因為當然"},{"start":453.455,"end":480.849,"text":"電費調整成本會增加嘛相對的對GDP會有一些的影響啦這個部分然後包括譬如說如果是政治的因素地緣政治有一些戰爭的一些因素的影響戰爭的影響地緣政治的一些影響都會影響到我們整個GDP的一個那個但整體來講全年度還是樂觀的原則上初步來講以第一季來看是樂觀的"},{"start":482.008,"end":498.717,"text":"好那你看有提到那個台電的問題啦齁台電的話你們有送這個一千億的這個增加預算到立法院來嘛對不對那如果這個立法院因為現在這個國民黨跟民眾黨在國會是多數嘛那如果他不讓這個預算增加預算這個通過的話該怎麼辦"},{"start":501.203,"end":506.489,"text":"如果不調整電價的話,他就必須要去做一些虧損的補貼,那不然的話他沒有辦法繼續去運作。那所以如果這一條通過的話該怎麼辦?"},{"start":522.15,"end":544.805,"text":"那這個部分就變成是說臺電他應該要再研擬相關的一個措施那他的措施到底是要調整電價還是怎麼樣的一個方式電價他現在也不讓你調整啊他現在電價他修改這個電業法就是說要立法院同意電價才能調整嘛所以我是問你說在這種情況下如果說在野黨他這個追加預算也不讓你過然後臺電他也不讓他漲價的話怎麼辦"},{"start":546.546,"end":546.566,"text":"這老實講齁"},{"start":574.813,"end":581.475,"text":"昨年是因為我們有賺錢所以我們就多一千億給台電這個對台電來講也不是長久的辦法那台電該怎麼辦"},{"start":596.067,"end":605.161,"text":"所以這個部分因為就它整個營運的狀況來講的話應該是要做一些相關的一個調整"},{"start":608.779,"end":611.501,"text":"台電會把他們虧損的預算列在他們的預算裡面但是經濟部那邊好像有些意見"},{"start":629.885,"end":653.358,"text":"因為我們也有做對台電等於說我們去年兩年4千億總共有一些是屬於增資那如果說真正的不行也可以做虧損彌補做一個調整做一個虧損的一個調整那現在營運的話如果營運成本的部分如果錢不夠去借款那就是增加一些成本"},{"start":653.678,"end":654.198,"text":"李坤城委員"}]}}}}