{"id":153282,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153282","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/2c978e04ca5e133128816f5dd58d554d243e47098157e4f6c09f7998a2d5a4c199ca43a5534ac6bc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe","委員發言時間":"12:21:34 - 12:29:28","影片長度":"00:07:54","會議時間":"2024-05-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請農業部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【5月27日、5月29日及5月30日三天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-29","duration":474,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-14"},"end_time":"2024-05-29T12:29:28+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-29T12:21:34+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1032,"blocks":[["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：（12時21分）謝謝主席，有請部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：部長好，辛苦了！去年5月初我來質詢農委會，為什麼呢？因為當時我們有族人因為使用一些傳統食材被檢舉，並依據食安法被食藥署開罰。其實很為難的地方是，依照國家規定，必須有一個很複雜的調查過程，且動輒百萬的安全性測試費用，這是很辛苦的，我不認為這是個人能做到的，應該由企業、公司或政府來做。當時副主委說，將由場試所主動蒐集資料給食藥署。另外我也提到，希望農委會主動會同原民會，盤整原住民的慣俗植物，即常用的食材原料清單，由你們協調食藥署，並依據這個規定項目由你們檢附資料送審，當時也回應說可以。但去年年底又爆發荖葉事件，因為有人做荖葉香腸，一樣檢舉、開罰。當時我跟陳培瑜委員召開記者會，而記者會的結論是：農業部應主動與原民會盤整原住民常用的傳統慣俗食材，彙整後，由農業部協調衛福部食藥署，儘速納入傳統性食品原料，避免許多人因行政部門作業不及而無辜受罰。我要說的是，這半年的訴求與結論是一模一樣的，我也看到你們在昨天召開了相關會議，農業部提出了137項，原民會提出了14項，客委會目前還沒加進來。但我們也看到目前我們講的這些還沒有納入，最主要的原因是食用紀錄不可考，較少食用、無食用、無法確認有長期且廣泛的……本來就是啊！做這個調查多難？已經食用了幾千年，突然說一定要找到文獻或者做調查？將心比心，部長，你應該也覺得很困難、很為難人，對不對？當然，也很謝謝你們有提及允許到非傳統性食品原料去做九十天的餵食毒性測驗、基因毒性試驗與致畸試驗。我想請問：第一，誰來做？經費哪裡來？請教一下部長。"],["陳部長駿季：第一個部分，農業部當初承諾了委員的提醒，現在我們有一個專案計畫「找回原力」，也就是原住民部落的這些傳統食材。這不是昨天才提給他們的，這是我們早就蒐集的，昨天他們開會，但其實我們很早就提供給食藥署了。基本上從食安角度來說，我們必須尊重食藥署的判斷。現在所面臨的一個困難是，在傳統食材部分，我們爭取如果在國外已經有食用紀錄，我們透過文獻的蒐集是不是可以當作證明之一？如此就不用再重新做了。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：是。"],["陳部長駿季：或者有一些地區，像原民部落，如果我們能夠蒐集這些資料，證明早期的原民耆老就在吃了，這樣是不是也可以放？這些我們會重新整理。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：謝謝。"],["陳部長駿季：至於剛才委員說不走傳統食材，走非傳統食材的話，那更複雜，還牽涉到毒性測試，就是委員講的毒性測試……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：誰來做？農業部可以幫忙嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：如果我們要做的話，我們會請農藥所來做，因為農藥所本身有能力去做。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：我們就請農藥所來做。至於經費部分，當然就由你們來處理嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：對……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：因為這絕對不是受罰的個人可以做的……"],["陳部長駿季：但是不能一百三十幾項全部進去，我們會有優先次序，把優先選擇出來的以經費請農藥所來做。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：還要等多久？"],["陳部長駿季：如果這一百三十幾種的排序出來……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：因為只要有人檢舉，就會一直受罰。"],["陳部長駿季：我知道。現在就是優先次序出來以後，我會跟食藥署……所長也在這裡，我們會用經費來支持。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：主席，再一分鐘，我問一個小問題。第二，現在我們原住民最需要的跟農水署、水保署的業務及農糧署的業務相關。我簡單說，首先，水保署或農糧署都針對原住民地區的補助項目增加10%，只要符合的話一律增加10%，因為原鄉的成本很高。我認為很好，可是現在遇到兩個問題，因為農水署剛改制成立，所以好像還沒有這一項。麻煩部長，有關農水署這部分一樣來做，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：跟委員稍微說明一下。有關提高補助，以我的概念來說，我一直認為原鄉地區、原民部落對這片土地有守護與貢獻度，也因為貢獻度，我願意把一些原民部落的補助經費做一致性的適當處理。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，謝謝。第二個就是距離遠近的問題，我舉個例子，像尖石鄉光是從宇老一直到馬胎，兩地相距54公里，車程兩個多小時。我們有族人提議，因為他們叫不到廠商，也沒有人要來，所以是不是能夠依距離遠近來做一些程度上的差別補助？"],["陳部長駿季：謝謝委員的提醒。因為原民部落分散，有的在很深山，所以這部分我們會去研議，不過可能無法用一致性的方式，如用一公里多少來處理。針對可能太遠的部分，我們可能會用專案的方式……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：因為會一直流標，也沒有人要送貨。"],["陳部長駿季：或者用協助的方式，委請一些我們比較瞭解的廠商協助。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：OK。農水路的經費我之前也關心過，聽說明年會增加，對吧？"],["陳部長駿季：一年農水路的經費加起來total大概40億，不過全國地區有很多農水路要做，所以我們會依照它的重要性儘量來支持。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：希望來支持原鄉。謝謝部長，謝謝署長。"],["主席：接下來我們請涂權吉委員。謝謝涂權吉委員在這邊等好久。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":346,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-14","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","陳亭妃","林岱樺","張啓楷","邱議瑩","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra 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{\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 455.728, \"end\": 455.848, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 455.848, \"end\": 456.068, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 456.068, \"end\": 456.189, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 456.189, \"end\": 456.209, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 456.209, \"end\": 456.229, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"en\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,489 --> 00:00:18,175\n吳 麗 華 委 員 請 做 詢 談 謝 謝 主 席 有 請 部 長 我 們 再 請 部 長\n\n2\n00:00:26,254 --> 00:00:31,281\n部 長 好 , 辛 苦 了 。 去 年 的 5 月 初 我 有 來 質 詢 農 委 會\n\n3\n00:00:33,953 --> 00:00:55,968\n那 為 什 麼 呢 ? 因 為 當 時 我 們 有 族 人 因 為 使 用 一 些 傳 統 食 材 被 檢 舉 因 此 機 具 食 安 法 就 被 食 藥 署 開 發 那 在 這 個 部 分 其 實 很 為 難 的 地 方 是 如 果 依 照 國 家 的 規 定 它 有 一 個 很 複 雜 的 調 查 過 程 而 且 動 輒 百 萬 的 安 全 性 測 試 費 用\n\n4\n00:01:01,972 --> 00:01:16,906\n所 以 很 辛 苦 的 我 不 認 為 這 個 是 個 人 能 做 到 的 這 個 應 該 是 屬 於 那 些 企 業 、 公 司 或 政 府 來 做 的 那 當 時 呢 副 主 委 他 是 說 會 由 場 事 所 主 動 收 集 資 料 給 食 藥 署\n\n5\n00:01:19,484 --> 00:01:46,158\n另 外 我 也 提 到 說 我 是 希 望 農 委 會 要 主 動 會 同 原 民 會 盤 整 原 住 民 的 灌 輸 植 物 這 些 常 用 的 食 材 原 料 清 單 由 你 們 來 協 調 食 藥 署 依 據 這 個 規 定 項 目 由 你 們 檢 附 資 料 送 審 當 時 也 回 應 說 可 以 可 是 後 來 去 年 的 年 底 又 爆 發 是 老 葉\n\n6\n00:01:47,199 --> 00:01:47,439\n農 業 部 應 主 動 與 原 民 會\n\n7\n00:02:05,161 --> 00:02:21,318\n盤 整 原 住 民 常 用 的 傳 統 灌 輸 食 材 會 診 後 由 農 業 部 協 調 衛 福 部 食 藥 署 競 速 納 入 傳 統 性 食 品 原 料 避 免 許 多 的 人 因 為 行 政 部 門 作 業 來 不 及 然 後 無 辜 受 罰\n\n8\n00:02:22,119 --> 00:02:35,946\n好 那 我 要 說 的 是 其 實 那 半 年 訴 求 結 論 是 一 模 一 樣 的 那 我 是 看 到 說 欸 你 們 果 然 呢 是 在 昨 天 有 召 開 了 這 個 相 關 的 會 議\n\n9\n00:02:37,546 --> 00:02:44,869\n農 業 部 提 出 了 1 3 7 項 人 民 會 提 出 了 1 4 項 那 客 委 會 這 邊 是 還 沒 有 加 進 來 那 這 個 地 方 我 們 也 看 到 說 目 前 好 像 我 們 講 的 這 些 也 還 沒 有 納 入 那 最 主 要 是 說 它 的 實 用 紀 錄 不 可 考 較 少 實 用 、 無 實 用 、 無 法 確 認 長 期 且 廣 泛 本 來 就 是 啊\n\n10\n00:03:02,958 --> 00:03:30,227\n做 這 個 調 查 多 難 我 就 已 經 使 用 了 幾 千 年 你 突 然 一 定 要 我 去 找 文 獻 或 者 做 調 查 您 將 心 比 心 部 長 您 應 該 也 覺 得 很 困 難 很 為 難 人 對 不 對 所 以 在 這 個 地 方 也 很 謝 謝 你 們 有 提 到 說 那 就 讓 他 允 許 到 非 傳 統 性 的 食 品 原 料 這 邊 就 是 去 做 9 0 天 的 餵 食 毒 性 測 驗 基 因 毒 性 試 驗 致 肌 試 驗\n\n11\n00:03:32,688 --> 00:03:35,493\n哇 我 是 想 要 問 說 第 一 個 要 誰 來 做 啊 這 個 經 費 哪 裡 來 請 教 一 下 部 長\n\n12\n00:03:41,105 --> 00:04:09,552\n我 想 第 一 個 部 分 就 是 其 實 我 們 農 業 部 當 初 也 承 諾 了 委 員 的 一 個 提 醒 我 們 有 一 個 專 案 計 畫 叫 做 找 回 原 地 就 是 原 住 民 部 落 的 這 些 傳 統 食 材 所 以 我 們 也 收 集 了 也 不 是 昨 天 才 提 出 給 他 們 的 昨 天 是 他 們 開 會 其 實 我 們 很 早 就 提 供 給 食 藥 署 了 但 是 基 本 上 從 食 安 的 角 度 我 們 也 必 須 尊 重 食 藥 署 的 一 個 判 斷 那 現 在 一 個 困 難 就 是 傳 統 食 材 的 部 分 我 們 是 爭 取 說\n\n13\n00:04:40,792 --> 00:05:06,701\n是 那 個 牽 涉 到 毒 性 測 試 阿 有 沒 有 這 邊 講 的 毒 性 測 試 那 就 是 說 誰 來 做 農 業 部 可 以 幫 忙 嗎 這 個 部 分 齁 我 們 如 果 要 做 的 時 候 我 們 會 請 我 們 的 農 藥 所 來 做 因 為 農 藥 所 本 身 有 這 個 能 力 去 做 這 個 好 那 我 們 就 請 農 藥 所 來 做 那 經 費 這 個 部 分 當 然 就 由 你 們 來 處 理 嘛 對 因 為 這 絕 對 不 是 受 罰 的 個 人 可 以 做 的 對 吧 對 但 是 這 個 齁 不 能 一 百 三 十 幾 項 全 部 進 去 啦 是 我 們 會 有 一 些 優 先 次 序\n\n14\n00:05:07,321 --> 00:05:08,703\n好 那 還 要 等 多 久 ? 因 為 有 人 檢 舉 就 一 直 受 罰 對 那\n\n15\n00:05:19,605 --> 00:05:27,472\n我 知 道 我 現 在 就 是 說 優 先 制 度 出 來 以 後 我 會 跟 食 藥 署 所 長 應 該 也 在 這 裡 我 們 會 用 經 費 來 支 持 他 做 好 那 主 席 我 問 一 個 一 分 鐘 小 問 題 那 第 二 個 就 是 很 簡 單 的 現 在 來 講 就 是 我 們 原 住 民 其 實 最 需 要 的 您 也 知 道 就 是 農 水 署 的 業 務 、 水 保 署 的 業 務 、 農 糧 署 的 業 務 那 我 簡 單 說 第 一 個 部 分\n\n16\n00:05:45,268 --> 00:06:10,026\n就 是 水 保 署 或 農 糧 署 這 邊 都 有 針 對 原 住 民 地 區 這 些 補 助 項 目 會 增 加 個 1 0 % 就 是 符 合 的 話 一 定 增 加 1 0 % 這 是 基 於 原 鄉 的 成 本 很 高 那 這 個 很 好 可 是 現 在 遇 到 兩 個 問 題 因 為 農 水 署 剛 改 制 成 立 啦 所 以 他 好 像 還 沒 有 這 一 項 所 以 麻 煩 部 長 農 水 署 這 個 部 分 一 樣 來 做 好 不 好\n\n17\n00:06:13,369 --> 00:06:16,758\n我 跟 委 員 早 點 說 明 一 下 齁 這 個 提 高 補 助 其 實\n\n18\n00:06:18,462 --> 00:06:47,541\n以 我 的 概 念 來 講 因 為 我 一 直 認 為 原 鄉 地 區 原 民 部 落 他 對 這 邊 土 地 的 守 護 的 貢 獻 度 因 為 他 的 貢 獻 度 我 願 意 把 一 些 原 民 部 落 的 一 些 補 助 經 費 有 一 次 性 的 去 做 一 個 適 當 的 處 理 好 謝 謝 那 另 外 第 二 個 碰 到 的 問 題 就 是 說 其 實 距 離 遠 近 喔 我 舉 個 例 子 齁 像 這 個 堅 實 箱 它 光 是 那 個 餘 老 一 直 到 它 裡 面 的 這 個 什 麼 馬 胎 齁 它 相 距 5 4 公 里 欸\n\n19\n00:06:48,382 --> 00:07:03,825\n那 個 兩 個 多 小 時 的 車 程 所 以 我 們 是 有 族 人 提 議 說 因 為 他 們 會 叫 不 到 廠 商 沒 有 人 要 來 所 以 是 不 是 這 個 部 分 也 能 夠 依 據 他 的 距 離 遠 近 還 是 做 一 些 程 度 的 差 別 補 助\n\n20\n00:07:05,191 --> 00:07:34,187\n我 想 謝 謝 委 員 這 樣 的 一 個 提 醒 就 是 說 因 為 原 民 部 落 很 分 散 有 的 是 很 深 山 所 以 這 個 部 分 可 能 我 們 會 去 研 議 但 是 可 能 沒 有 辦 法 用 一 致 性 的 用 一 公 里 多 好 可 能 太 遠 的 部 分 我 們 可 能 會 用 專 案 的 方 式 或 者 是 用 協 助 的 方 式 去 委 請 一 些 我 們 比 較 了 解 的 廠 商 去 來 協 助 那 那 個 農 水 路 的 經 費 我 也 之 前 關 心 過 聽 說 明 年 會 增 加 對 吧\n\n21\n00:07:35,708 --> 00:07:36,229\n謝 謝 部 長 謝 謝 各 位 署 長 謝 謝 主 席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n489\t18175\t吳麗華委員請做詢談謝謝主席 有請部長 我們再請部長\n26254\t31281\t部長好,辛苦了。去年的5月初我有來質詢農委會\n33953\t55968\t那為什麼呢?因為當時我們有族人因為使用一些傳統食材被檢舉因此機具食安法就被食藥署開發那在這個部分其實很為難的地方是如果依照國家的規定它有一個很複雜的調查過程而且動輒百萬的安全性測試費用\n61972\t76906\t所以很辛苦的我不認為這個是個人能做到的 這個應該是屬於那些企業、公司或政府來做的那當時呢副主委他是說會由場事所主動收集資料給食藥署\n79484\t106158\t另外我也提到說我是希望農委會要主動會同原民會盤整原住民的灌輸植物這些常用的食材原料清單由你們來協調食藥署依據這個規定項目由你們檢附資料送審當時也回應說可以可是後來去年的年底又爆發是老葉\n107199\t107439\t農業部應主動與原民會\n125161\t141318\t盤整原住民常用的傳統灌輸食材會診後由農業部協調衛福部食藥署競速納入傳統性食品原料避免許多的人因為行政部門作業來不及然後無辜受罰\n142119\t155946\t好那我要說的是其實那半年訴求結論是一模一樣的那我是看到說欸你們果然呢是在昨天有召開了這個相關的會議\n157546\t164869\t農業部提出了137項人民會提出了14項那客委會這邊是還沒有加進來那這個地方我們也看到說目前好像我們講的這些也還沒有納入那最主要是說它的實用紀錄不可考較少實用、無實用、無法確認長期且廣泛本來就是啊\n182958\t210227\t做這個調查多難我就已經使用了幾千年你突然一定要我去找文獻或者做調查您將心比心部長您應該也覺得很困難很為難人對不對所以在這個地方也很謝謝你們有提到說那就讓他允許到非傳統性的食品原料這邊就是去做90天的餵食毒性測驗基因毒性試驗致肌試驗\n212688\t215493\t哇 我是想要問說第一個要誰來做啊這個經費哪裡來請教一下部長\n221105\t249552\t我想第一個部分就是其實我們農業部當初也承諾了委員的一個提醒我們有一個專案計畫叫做找回原地就是原住民部落的這些傳統食材所以我們也收集了也不是昨天才提出給他們的昨天是他們開會其實我們很早就提供給食藥署了但是基本上從食安的角度我們也必須尊重食藥署的一個判斷那現在一個困難就是傳統食材的部分我們是爭取說\n250572\t280572\t對。謝謝。\n280792\t306701\t是那個牽涉到毒性測試阿有沒有這邊講的毒性測試那就是說誰來做農業部可以幫忙嗎這個部分齁我們如果要做的時候我們會請我們的農藥所來做因為農藥所本身有這個能力去做這個好那我們就請農藥所來做那經費這個部分當然就由你們來處理嘛對因為這絕對不是受罰的個人可以做的對吧對但是這個齁不能一百三十幾項全部進去啦是我們會有一些優先次序\n307321\t308703\t好 那還要等多久?因為有人檢舉就一直受罰對 那\n319605\t327472\t我知道 我現在就是說優先制度出來以後我會跟食藥署所長應該也在這裡我們會用經費來支持他做好 那主席我問一個一分鐘小問題那第二個就是很簡單的現在來講就是我們原住民其實最需要的您也知道就是農水署的業務、水保署的業務、農糧署的業務那我簡單說第一個部分\n345268\t370026\t就是水保署或農糧署這邊都有針對原住民地區這些補助項目會增加個10%就是符合的話一定增加10%這是基於原鄉的成本很高那這個很好可是現在遇到兩個問題因為農水署剛改制成立啦所以他好像還沒有這一項所以麻煩部長農水署這個部分一樣來做好不好\n373369\t376758\t我跟委員早點說明一下齁 這個提高補助其實\n378462\t407541\t以我的概念來講因為我一直認為原鄉地區原民部落他對這邊土地的守護的貢獻度因為他的貢獻度我願意把一些原民部落的一些補助經費有一次性的去做一個適當的處理好 謝謝那另外第二個碰到的問題就是說其實距離遠近喔我舉個例子齁像這個堅實箱它光是那個餘老一直到它裡面的這個什麼馬胎齁它相距54公里欸\n408382\t423825\t那個兩個多小時的車程所以我們是有族人提議說因為他們會叫不到廠商沒有人要來所以是不是這個部分也能夠依據他的距離遠近還是做一些程度的差別補助\n425191\t454187\t我想謝謝委員這樣的一個提醒就是說因為原民部落很分散有的是很深山所以這個部分可能我們會去研議但是可能沒有辦法用一致性的用一公里多好可能太遠的部分我們可能會用專案的方式或者是用協助的方式去委請一些我們比較了解的廠商去來協助那那個農水路的經費我也之前關心過聽說明年會增加對吧\n455708\t456229\t謝謝部長 謝謝各位署長 謝謝主席\n","txt":"吳麗華委員請做詢談謝謝主席 有請部長 我們再請部長\n部長好,辛苦了。去年的5月初我有來質詢農委會\n那為什麼呢?因為當時我們有族人因為使用一些傳統食材被檢舉因此機具食安法就被食藥署開發那在這個部分其實很為難的地方是如果依照國家的規定它有一個很複雜的調查過程而且動輒百萬的安全性測試費用\n所以很辛苦的我不認為這個是個人能做到的 這個應該是屬於那些企業、公司或政府來做的那當時呢副主委他是說會由場事所主動收集資料給食藥署\n另外我也提到說我是希望農委會要主動會同原民會盤整原住民的灌輸植物這些常用的食材原料清單由你們來協調食藥署依據這個規定項目由你們檢附資料送審當時也回應說可以可是後來去年的年底又爆發是老葉\n農業部應主動與原民會\n盤整原住民常用的傳統灌輸食材會診後由農業部協調衛福部食藥署競速納入傳統性食品原料避免許多的人因為行政部門作業來不及然後無辜受罰\n好那我要說的是其實那半年訴求結論是一模一樣的那我是看到說欸你們果然呢是在昨天有召開了這個相關的會議\n農業部提出了137項人民會提出了14項那客委會這邊是還沒有加進來那這個地方我們也看到說目前好像我們講的這些也還沒有納入那最主要是說它的實用紀錄不可考較少實用、無實用、無法確認長期且廣泛本來就是啊\n做這個調查多難我就已經使用了幾千年你突然一定要我去找文獻或者做調查您將心比心部長您應該也覺得很困難很為難人對不對所以在這個地方也很謝謝你們有提到說那就讓他允許到非傳統性的食品原料這邊就是去做90天的餵食毒性測驗基因毒性試驗致肌試驗\n哇 我是想要問說第一個要誰來做啊這個經費哪裡來請教一下部長\n我想第一個部分就是其實我們農業部當初也承諾了委員的一個提醒我們有一個專案計畫叫做找回原地就是原住民部落的這些傳統食材所以我們也收集了也不是昨天才提出給他們的昨天是他們開會其實我們很早就提供給食藥署了但是基本上從食安的角度我們也必須尊重食藥署的一個判斷那現在一個困難就是傳統食材的部分我們是爭取說\n對。謝謝。\n是那個牽涉到毒性測試阿有沒有這邊講的毒性測試那就是說誰來做農業部可以幫忙嗎這個部分齁我們如果要做的時候我們會請我們的農藥所來做因為農藥所本身有這個能力去做這個好那我們就請農藥所來做那經費這個部分當然就由你們來處理嘛對因為這絕對不是受罰的個人可以做的對吧對但是這個齁不能一百三十幾項全部進去啦是我們會有一些優先次序\n好 那還要等多久?因為有人檢舉就一直受罰對 那\n我知道 我現在就是說優先制度出來以後我會跟食藥署所長應該也在這裡我們會用經費來支持他做好 那主席我問一個一分鐘小問題那第二個就是很簡單的現在來講就是我們原住民其實最需要的您也知道就是農水署的業務、水保署的業務、農糧署的業務那我簡單說第一個部分\n就是水保署或農糧署這邊都有針對原住民地區這些補助項目會增加個10%就是符合的話一定增加10%這是基於原鄉的成本很高那這個很好可是現在遇到兩個問題因為農水署剛改制成立啦所以他好像還沒有這一項所以麻煩部長農水署這個部分一樣來做好不好\n我跟委員早點說明一下齁 這個提高補助其實\n以我的概念來講因為我一直認為原鄉地區原民部落他對這邊土地的守護的貢獻度因為他的貢獻度我願意把一些原民部落的一些補助經費有一次性的去做一個適當的處理好 謝謝那另外第二個碰到的問題就是說其實距離遠近喔我舉個例子齁像這個堅實箱它光是那個餘老一直到它裡面的這個什麼馬胎齁它相距54公里欸\n那個兩個多小時的車程所以我們是有族人提議說因為他們會叫不到廠商沒有人要來所以是不是這個部分也能夠依據他的距離遠近還是做一些程度的差別補助\n我想謝謝委員這樣的一個提醒就是說因為原民部落很分散有的是很深山所以這個部分可能我們會去研議但是可能沒有辦法用一致性的用一公里多好可能太遠的部分我們可能會用專案的方式或者是用協助的方式去委請一些我們比較了解的廠商去來協助那那個農水路的經費我也之前關心過聽說明年會增加對吧\n謝謝部長 謝謝各位署長 謝謝主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.489 --> 00:18.175\n吳 麗 華 委 員 請 做 詢 談 謝 謝 主 席 有 請 部 長 我 們 再 請 部 長\n\n00:26.254 --> 00:31.281\n部 長 好 , 辛 苦 了 。 去 年 的 5 月 初 我 有 來 質 詢 農 委 會\n\n00:33.953 --> 00:55.968\n那 為 什 麼 呢 ? 因 為 當 時 我 們 有 族 人 因 為 使 用 一 些 傳 統 食 材 被 檢 舉 因 此 機 具 食 安 法 就 被 食 藥 署 開 發 那 在 這 個 部 分 其 實 很 為 難 的 地 方 是 如 果 依 照 國 家 的 規 定 它 有 一 個 很 複 雜 的 調 查 過 程 而 且 動 輒 百 萬 的 安 全 性 測 試 費 用\n\n01:01.972 --> 01:16.906\n所 以 很 辛 苦 的 我 不 認 為 這 個 是 個 人 能 做 到 的 這 個 應 該 是 屬 於 那 些 企 業 、 公 司 或 政 府 來 做 的 那 當 時 呢 副 主 委 他 是 說 會 由 場 事 所 主 動 收 集 資 料 給 食 藥 署\n\n01:19.484 --> 01:46.158\n另 外 我 也 提 到 說 我 是 希 望 農 委 會 要 主 動 會 同 原 民 會 盤 整 原 住 民 的 灌 輸 植 物 這 些 常 用 的 食 材 原 料 清 單 由 你 們 來 協 調 食 藥 署 依 據 這 個 規 定 項 目 由 你 們 檢 附 資 料 送 審 當 時 也 回 應 說 可 以 可 是 後 來 去 年 的 年 底 又 爆 發 是 老 葉\n\n01:47.199 --> 01:47.439\n農 業 部 應 主 動 與 原 民 會\n\n02:05.161 --> 02:21.318\n盤 整 原 住 民 常 用 的 傳 統 灌 輸 食 材 會 診 後 由 農 業 部 協 調 衛 福 部 食 藥 署 競 速 納 入 傳 統 性 食 品 原 料 避 免 許 多 的 人 因 為 行 政 部 門 作 業 來 不 及 然 後 無 辜 受 罰\n\n02:22.119 --> 02:35.946\n好 那 我 要 說 的 是 其 實 那 半 年 訴 求 結 論 是 一 模 一 樣 的 那 我 是 看 到 說 欸 你 們 果 然 呢 是 在 昨 天 有 召 開 了 這 個 相 關 的 會 議\n\n02:37.546 --> 02:44.869\n農 業 部 提 出 了 1 3 7 項 人 民 會 提 出 了 1 4 項 那 客 委 會 這 邊 是 還 沒 有 加 進 來 那 這 個 地 方 我 們 也 看 到 說 目 前 好 像 我 們 講 的 這 些 也 還 沒 有 納 入 那 最 主 要 是 說 它 的 實 用 紀 錄 不 可 考 較 少 實 用 、 無 實 用 、 無 法 確 認 長 期 且 廣 泛 本 來 就 是 啊\n\n03:02.958 --> 03:30.227\n做 這 個 調 查 多 難 我 就 已 經 使 用 了 幾 千 年 你 突 然 一 定 要 我 去 找 文 獻 或 者 做 調 查 您 將 心 比 心 部 長 您 應 該 也 覺 得 很 困 難 很 為 難 人 對 不 對 所 以 在 這 個 地 方 也 很 謝 謝 你 們 有 提 到 說 那 就 讓 他 允 許 到 非 傳 統 性 的 食 品 原 料 這 邊 就 是 去 做 9 0 天 的 餵 食 毒 性 測 驗 基 因 毒 性 試 驗 致 肌 試 驗\n\n03:32.688 --> 03:35.493\n哇 我 是 想 要 問 說 第 一 個 要 誰 來 做 啊 這 個 經 費 哪 裡 來 請 教 一 下 部 長\n\n03:41.105 --> 04:09.552\n我 想 第 一 個 部 分 就 是 其 實 我 們 農 業 部 當 初 也 承 諾 了 委 員 的 一 個 提 醒 我 們 有 一 個 專 案 計 畫 叫 做 找 回 原 地 就 是 原 住 民 部 落 的 這 些 傳 統 食 材 所 以 我 們 也 收 集 了 也 不 是 昨 天 才 提 出 給 他 們 的 昨 天 是 他 們 開 會 其 實 我 們 很 早 就 提 供 給 食 藥 署 了 但 是 基 本 上 從 食 安 的 角 度 我 們 也 必 須 尊 重 食 藥 署 的 一 個 判 斷 那 現 在 一 個 困 難 就 是 傳 統 食 材 的 部 分 我 們 是 爭 取 說\n\n04:40.792 --> 05:06.701\n是 那 個 牽 涉 到 毒 性 測 試 阿 有 沒 有 這 邊 講 的 毒 性 測 試 那 就 是 說 誰 來 做 農 業 部 可 以 幫 忙 嗎 這 個 部 分 齁 我 們 如 果 要 做 的 時 候 我 們 會 請 我 們 的 農 藥 所 來 做 因 為 農 藥 所 本 身 有 這 個 能 力 去 做 這 個 好 那 我 們 就 請 農 藥 所 來 做 那 經 費 這 個 部 分 當 然 就 由 你 們 來 處 理 嘛 對 因 為 這 絕 對 不 是 受 罰 的 個 人 可 以 做 的 對 吧 對 但 是 這 個 齁 不 能 一 百 三 十 幾 項 全 部 進 去 啦 是 我 們 會 有 一 些 優 先 次 序\n\n05:07.321 --> 05:08.703\n好 那 還 要 等 多 久 ? 因 為 有 人 檢 舉 就 一 直 受 罰 對 那\n\n05:19.605 --> 05:27.472\n我 知 道 我 現 在 就 是 說 優 先 制 度 出 來 以 後 我 會 跟 食 藥 署 所 長 應 該 也 在 這 裡 我 們 會 用 經 費 來 支 持 他 做 好 那 主 席 我 問 一 個 一 分 鐘 小 問 題 那 第 二 個 就 是 很 簡 單 的 現 在 來 講 就 是 我 們 原 住 民 其 實 最 需 要 的 您 也 知 道 就 是 農 水 署 的 業 務 、 水 保 署 的 業 務 、 農 糧 署 的 業 務 那 我 簡 單 說 第 一 個 部 分\n\n05:45.268 --> 06:10.026\n就 是 水 保 署 或 農 糧 署 這 邊 都 有 針 對 原 住 民 地 區 這 些 補 助 項 目 會 增 加 個 1 0 % 就 是 符 合 的 話 一 定 增 加 1 0 % 這 是 基 於 原 鄉 的 成 本 很 高 那 這 個 很 好 可 是 現 在 遇 到 兩 個 問 題 因 為 農 水 署 剛 改 制 成 立 啦 所 以 他 好 像 還 沒 有 這 一 項 所 以 麻 煩 部 長 農 水 署 這 個 部 分 一 樣 來 做 好 不 好\n\n06:13.369 --> 06:16.758\n我 跟 委 員 早 點 說 明 一 下 齁 這 個 提 高 補 助 其 實\n\n06:18.462 --> 06:47.541\n以 我 的 概 念 來 講 因 為 我 一 直 認 為 原 鄉 地 區 原 民 部 落 他 對 這 邊 土 地 的 守 護 的 貢 獻 度 因 為 他 的 貢 獻 度 我 願 意 把 一 些 原 民 部 落 的 一 些 補 助 經 費 有 一 次 性 的 去 做 一 個 適 當 的 處 理 好 謝 謝 那 另 外 第 二 個 碰 到 的 問 題 就 是 說 其 實 距 離 遠 近 喔 我 舉 個 例 子 齁 像 這 個 堅 實 箱 它 光 是 那 個 餘 老 一 直 到 它 裡 面 的 這 個 什 麼 馬 胎 齁 它 相 距 5 4 公 里 欸\n\n06:48.382 --> 07:03.825\n那 個 兩 個 多 小 時 的 車 程 所 以 我 們 是 有 族 人 提 議 說 因 為 他 們 會 叫 不 到 廠 商 沒 有 人 要 來 所 以 是 不 是 這 個 部 分 也 能 夠 依 據 他 的 距 離 遠 近 還 是 做 一 些 程 度 的 差 別 補 助\n\n07:05.191 --> 07:34.187\n我 想 謝 謝 委 員 這 樣 的 一 個 提 醒 就 是 說 因 為 原 民 部 落 很 分 散 有 的 是 很 深 山 所 以 這 個 部 分 可 能 我 們 會 去 研 議 但 是 可 能 沒 有 辦 法 用 一 致 性 的 用 一 公 里 多 好 可 能 太 遠 的 部 分 我 們 可 能 會 用 專 案 的 方 式 或 者 是 用 協 助 的 方 式 去 委 請 一 些 我 們 比 較 了 解 的 廠 商 去 來 協 助 那 那 個 農 水 路 的 經 費 我 也 之 前 關 心 過 聽 說 明 年 會 增 加 對 吧\n\n07:35.708 --> 07:36.229\n謝 謝 部 長 謝 謝 各 位 署 長 謝 謝 主 席\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.489,"end":18.175,"text":"吳麗華委員請做詢談謝謝主席 有請部長 我們再請部長"},{"start":26.254,"end":31.281,"text":"部長好,辛苦了。去年的5月初我有來質詢農委會"},{"start":33.953,"end":55.968,"text":"那為什麼呢?因為當時我們有族人因為使用一些傳統食材被檢舉因此機具食安法就被食藥署開發那在這個部分其實很為難的地方是如果依照國家的規定它有一個很複雜的調查過程而且動輒百萬的安全性測試費用"},{"start":61.972,"end":76.906,"text":"所以很辛苦的我不認為這個是個人能做到的 這個應該是屬於那些企業、公司或政府來做的那當時呢副主委他是說會由場事所主動收集資料給食藥署"},{"start":79.484,"end":106.158,"text":"另外我也提到說我是希望農委會要主動會同原民會盤整原住民的灌輸植物這些常用的食材原料清單由你們來協調食藥署依據這個規定項目由你們檢附資料送審當時也回應說可以可是後來去年的年底又爆發是老葉"},{"start":107.199,"end":107.439,"text":"農業部應主動與原民會"},{"start":125.161,"end":141.318,"text":"盤整原住民常用的傳統灌輸食材會診後由農業部協調衛福部食藥署競速納入傳統性食品原料避免許多的人因為行政部門作業來不及然後無辜受罰"},{"start":142.119,"end":155.946,"text":"好那我要說的是其實那半年訴求結論是一模一樣的那我是看到說欸你們果然呢是在昨天有召開了這個相關的會議"},{"start":157.546,"end":164.869,"text":"農業部提出了137項人民會提出了14項那客委會這邊是還沒有加進來那這個地方我們也看到說目前好像我們講的這些也還沒有納入那最主要是說它的實用紀錄不可考較少實用、無實用、無法確認長期且廣泛本來就是啊"},{"start":182.958,"end":210.227,"text":"做這個調查多難我就已經使用了幾千年你突然一定要我去找文獻或者做調查您將心比心部長您應該也覺得很困難很為難人對不對所以在這個地方也很謝謝你們有提到說那就讓他允許到非傳統性的食品原料這邊就是去做90天的餵食毒性測驗基因毒性試驗致肌試驗"},{"start":212.688,"end":215.493,"text":"哇 我是想要問說第一個要誰來做啊這個經費哪裡來請教一下部長"},{"start":221.105,"end":249.552,"text":"我想第一個部分就是其實我們農業部當初也承諾了委員的一個提醒我們有一個專案計畫叫做找回原地就是原住民部落的這些傳統食材所以我們也收集了也不是昨天才提出給他們的昨天是他們開會其實我們很早就提供給食藥署了但是基本上從食安的角度我們也必須尊重食藥署的一個判斷那現在一個困難就是傳統食材的部分我們是爭取說"},{"start":250.572,"end":280.572,"text":"對。謝謝。"},{"start":280.792,"end":306.701,"text":"是那個牽涉到毒性測試阿有沒有這邊講的毒性測試那就是說誰來做農業部可以幫忙嗎這個部分齁我們如果要做的時候我們會請我們的農藥所來做因為農藥所本身有這個能力去做這個好那我們就請農藥所來做那經費這個部分當然就由你們來處理嘛對因為這絕對不是受罰的個人可以做的對吧對但是這個齁不能一百三十幾項全部進去啦是我們會有一些優先次序"},{"start":307.321,"end":308.703,"text":"好 那還要等多久?因為有人檢舉就一直受罰對 那"},{"start":319.605,"end":327.472,"text":"我知道 我現在就是說優先制度出來以後我會跟食藥署所長應該也在這裡我們會用經費來支持他做好 那主席我問一個一分鐘小問題那第二個就是很簡單的現在來講就是我們原住民其實最需要的您也知道就是農水署的業務、水保署的業務、農糧署的業務那我簡單說第一個部分"},{"start":345.268,"end":370.026,"text":"就是水保署或農糧署這邊都有針對原住民地區這些補助項目會增加個10%就是符合的話一定增加10%這是基於原鄉的成本很高那這個很好可是現在遇到兩個問題因為農水署剛改制成立啦所以他好像還沒有這一項所以麻煩部長農水署這個部分一樣來做好不好"},{"start":373.369,"end":376.758,"text":"我跟委員早點說明一下齁 這個提高補助其實"},{"start":378.462,"end":407.541,"text":"以我的概念來講因為我一直認為原鄉地區原民部落他對這邊土地的守護的貢獻度因為他的貢獻度我願意把一些原民部落的一些補助經費有一次性的去做一個適當的處理好 謝謝那另外第二個碰到的問題就是說其實距離遠近喔我舉個例子齁像這個堅實箱它光是那個餘老一直到它裡面的這個什麼馬胎齁它相距54公里欸"},{"start":408.382,"end":423.825,"text":"那個兩個多小時的車程所以我們是有族人提議說因為他們會叫不到廠商沒有人要來所以是不是這個部分也能夠依據他的距離遠近還是做一些程度的差別補助"},{"start":425.191,"end":454.187,"text":"我想謝謝委員這樣的一個提醒就是說因為原民部落很分散有的是很深山所以這個部分可能我們會去研議但是可能沒有辦法用一致性的用一公里多好可能太遠的部分我們可能會用專案的方式或者是用協助的方式去委請一些我們比較了解的廠商去來協助那那個農水路的經費我也之前關心過聽說明年會增加對吧"},{"start":455.708,"end":456.229,"text":"謝謝部長 謝謝各位署長 謝謝主席"}]}}}}